August 14, 2025 • 24 mins
When the stakes are high, and the systems are down, who do governments and enterprises in the Netherlands call? Bart Lageweg, founder of Bizway, has built one of Europe’s most trusted MSPs by running toward the toughest IT challenges—cyberattacks, ransomware recovery, and compliance-critical crises.
In this episode of Now That’s IT: Stories of MSP Success, host Chris Massey sits down with Bart to explore how Bizway thrives in the “firefighter” role of managed services. They discuss:
- How Bart turned a solo IT operation into a leading cybersecurity-focused MSP
- The strategy behind small, frequent acquisitions and high-value client selection
- Why compliance (including NIS2) is both a sales tool and a security necessity
- How to lead and scale without losing the agility to handle emergencies
- The role of coaching, boards, and constant evolution in MSP leadership
Whether you’re building an MSP, leading an internal IT team, or navigating the shift toward compliance-driven services, this conversation offers a rare inside look at thriving in high-stakes IT environments.
Let us help you unlock your business's full potential.
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Book a Call with Chris Massey now to learn what Business Transformation can do for you!
'Now that's it: Stories of MSP Success,' dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
Every episode is packed with the valuable insights, practical strategies, and inspiring anecdotes that lead our guests to the transformative moment when they knew….. Now, that's it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One, two, three, four .
It's nice to be a hero.
It's nice to fix things withother people saying, okay,
that's difficult.
Welcome to Now, that's it.
Stories of MSP success, wherewe dive into the journeys of
some of the trailblazers in ourindustry to find out how they
used their passion fortechnology to help turn managed
services into the thrivingsector it is today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Over the last 25 years, you would build one of
the most trusted MSPs inNetherlands, taking on most
vital and complex needs, withoutprivate equity, I may add.
Today, Bizway is the teamcompanies call when everything's
on fire, whether it's a cyberattack, a data breach or a full
(00:43):
systems failure.
So how did a kid with a passionfor tech become one of the most
respected voices in Europeancybersecurity?
Well, that's what we're goingto find out today.
Welcome to the Now that's itpodcast, Bart Lagaway.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What an introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I did my best, I tried to give you as much
justice as possible, but let youtell your own story.
So I always find the originstory really interesting from
our guests, bart.
So finding out, you know likewhat are your connections Like?
Tell us what were your earliestmemories of technology.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, the earliest memory, I'm 45.
So a lot of people with my age.
Internet was a thing then and Iwas one of the first person
with a mobile phone in theclassroom.
So when the mobile phone isgoing off I can say, hi, no
rules, no classroom rules.
And I did some street things.
So I helped in the city withcomputer problems and very fast
(01:45):
I get to know people, companies,that is hard to manage.
So it was very nice to dothings that other people finding
hard to manage.
So that's the story.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So you're a teenager helping business with technology
.
What was the thinking betweenmore schooling and starting your
own business?
What was the decision?
You were always the same.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah I don't like school, yeah, but my kids are
gonna hear this school is goodbut stay in school, stay in
school.
But the the problem is if youcan manage your own time and
your own decision.
It's very hard to, uh, you know, stay on school.
And the other problem was, um,I was not very much on school,
(02:31):
sorry, yeah.
So uh, the the school aresaying okay, uh, if you can, if
you want to manage this time,you can help us in the evening
for evening school, and then iseverything gone, because if you
are one of the guys in theevening, you're not one of the
childs in the day.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That's right.
So for 10 years it was justBart right Doing things your way
.
What kind of work is that Like?
Who were your clients in thatfirst decade?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
No, the clients are from little banks.
That's very nice.
Uh, data text I don't know whatit's called in the, yeah, but
it's the thing about after the,the, the old tv screens.
You got some text.
For example, the normalproviders or the old providers
for now are uh, are very hard tomanage.
(03:23):
Traffic information needles andall sorts of feeds Now we call
it feeds and I like to managethat and in the same time I'm
bold.
You see, I was also very youngbold.
So one of the nice things noteverything was very nice if
you're bold when you're young,but when I was 20, people were
(03:44):
thinking I was 30, so it wasnice.
So one of the things I'vemanaged strange enough is you
have 112 in Europe and in thepast, in year 2000, I've managed
one of the things of 112because they don't know my age
and I like that sort of stuff ofprojects.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So, after 10 years of solo, doing it by yourself, you
rented your first office andyou hired your first employees.
What triggered that?
What was the moment you said Ishould do this, I should go get
this building.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Time.
The time was up, so I want tomanage my clients and one of the
most interesting things butmaybe one of your questions that
we will see is that wasbreak-fix.
Everyone did break-fix in thattime.
So I hired my first employeeand I'm firing three months
(04:43):
later because I was thinking,okay, okay, it's not good enough
, but the problem is handlinghandling it to other persons
except of yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, still problem sometimes yeah, you try to hire
yourself yeah you're never gonnahire yourself always along with
owners, right, you want to, youalmost want to hire somebody
that's better.
Right, surround yourself withbetter people, and that's hard
to do as an owner as well.
So you, some msps, just theyprefer to grow organically.
They build their teams, theycontinue to grow, at whatever
(05:16):
pace that is.
You took a different path.
You had a small acquisition,yeah, early on.
Who were you targeting?
What?
What?
What is it specifically thatyou were looking for?
Every?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
six months.
We bought a company and it'sstarting very small 10,000 euro
revenue a year.
So it's very small to 1,000 to1 million.
And why we did that is therewas always one or two customers
that need very much extra help,so it was our acquisition
marketing sales.
Much extra help, so it was ouracquisition marketing sales.
Everything inside and it waseasy because you get a lot of
(05:51):
customers and you can pick whichone needs more attention for
security, compliance and allsort of stuff so you said a real
breakthrough was when you soldhalf the company.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
yeah, talk that, talk that, tell us about that story.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, six years ago I sold the half, so 50%.
So a little bit risky there,yeah, but my co-owner now and I
did like it very much because weneed to be sure that we are
having the same focus.
A lot of private equity arebuying companies and the owner
(06:26):
will go away, and most of thetime not in the two years buyout
, but one year or three months,because we're not very good with
Excel and other people managing.
So what we did is we sold thehalf, so I get the same energy.
I'm talking to you six yearslater and I'm very happy with
(06:48):
that because you got some nowsome nice things.
You got some money on the moneyon the bank.
Yeah, that's one of thesolutions that's great for the
family and all sort of stuff andyou chose IMG right.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Why?
Why?
Why IMG over just sort ofregular private equity?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, because two things.
One of the main things that wasvery nice is that you can look
at the kitchen.
So you know the story already.
I see you smiling.
It's very nice that you arebought with a bigger company,
but not so big with 150 peoplewe are with 20, 30 then and you
(07:29):
can look in the kitchen.
Hey, that's really nice.
That's not nice and sometimesI'm not feeling nice and two
years later maybe it's a goodidea.
So it's very nice to look atthe kitchen without a problem
there.
And the other thing was is wehave both the same focus, only
the focus with eimg is health,and the focus on our end is
(07:54):
nothing except everything,except health yeah because you
want to have some risk, you cantake some risk.
Sometimes if somebody, somethingis broken, so a system is
broken totally, you can do otherrisk things with non-health
than health.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
How has your business model evolved with the growth
of the business?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, with all the standard things.
Sorry for that.
So we have sales, servicemanagement, project management,
itsm.
We have everything.
Service management, projectmanagement, uh, itsm.
We have everything now becausecustomers need it yeah, for sure
it's.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It's interesting and I went through a very similar.
We were about a 50 person msp.
Uh, that was acquired by about120 130 personP, so very similar
.
All of a sudden you're the newkids on the block in the company
, but you've got all thisexperience with different levels
(09:37):
of service, and so you bringyour own expertise into a bigger
portfolio, but all of a suddenyou're three times, four times
as large right so that's a goodand a bad thing.
You have to evolve what you'redoing and how you're delivering
your services, and it's greatthat you have a group of people
yeah, yeah and evolve.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I, I tell people I need to evolve also every six
months.
So you need to involve.
I'm here with you, I'm inberlin and it's to listen.
You need to learn.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, so you're primarily attracted to the most
important and critical thingsand the things that have been
broken the most.
Why is that, Bart?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's nice to be a hero, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Isn't it?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, people are working with us and myself I'm
working also.
Yeah, it's nice to fix things,but other people saying, okay,
that's difficult, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So is that a challenge, though?
I mean the significance.
Significance, the monetaryvalue, right, always, always
trying to put fires out.
I mean, is that how you werebuilt?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
that's how your brain was built yeah, that's a
problem because always is thedark side in my head yeah yeah
when it's coming.
So, um, you're, I'm a technicalguy so you'll always think,
okay, that's change, okay,that's okay, but if that is
going down, we need to fix that.
Always the mindset.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, a lot of technicians I don't want to say
most, but a lot of techniciansdon't like change, right.
They like I can handle thesesort of things.
I know I'll knock these thingsout of the box, but when it's
outside of that scope they get alittle anxious.
But that's not you, bart right?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You look for that?
Ooh, I've not seen that before.
Let's go figure that out.
That's neat.
Where do you think that camefrom?
Why do you think you're thatway?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I think it's nice to acknowledge yourself and your
environment.
So if you want to learn and getit in, control, that's a nice
feeling.
I think it's a rush.
It's an.
It's an.
Uh, how do you call?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
it, yeah, yeah.
Well, you just said, every sixmonths you're trying to evolve,
whether it be your business oryourself, exactly, and so the
only way to do that is to exposeyourself to some new things,
right?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
some new opportunities, new challenges,
sometimes hard, sometimes hard,for sure, I bet you.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There's days where you go home and it doesn't feel
like you got anythingaccomplished right, yeah, that's
hard.
So how do you find clients inthat niche, in that sort of
firefighter niche, like yeah,where do they come from?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
um government, for example, and one of the things
is you make, you need to maketime for it.
So I have a lot of discussionof compliance for free.
So I'm working a lot ofgovernments without sending a
bill, but it's now free.
I see you're smiling becauseyou know why.
Marketing know your name, namedropping, name dropping and
(12:36):
that's one of the things I'mgetting clients of, because you
need to be sure.
It's not free, so you cannotmake a sign on the building.
You must.
If you give time to it, you canalso get some things back
because you're the expert or youknow what you're talking about
(12:57):
and that's important.
So people need to know you andthey need to know your company
of course, sure.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Can you talk a little bit about compliance?
When did that come around?
You mentioned government, so ifyou're working with governments
, that's the first thing that'son their mind, right?
Did you realize that compliancewas an avenue that Bizway
should be focused on early on?
How long ago?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Maybe from the wrong thing, because one of the most
important thing if you want tomake hurry, if something is on
fire, you don't want to haveproblems with compliance Right,
so you need to be sure you haveall the stamps.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And that's why we're beginning with the compliancy
Now.
It's helping a lot because it'sa framework and you can say,
okay, it's an iso or an n orsomething like that, but it's um
.
The first thing why we did itwas because we don't want to
have an in a government oranother company saying, okay,
you can help, but you don't havethis stamp, so sorry yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So it's a, it's a sales tool for you as well,
right?
Because, uh, it's one thing ifbark comes in and says, oh, this
is what you need, yeah.
But if you show a regulatedbodies document that says these
are the things that you know thegovernment needs, or or a
finance sector needs, uh, theybelieve it.
It's from the government, right?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
so on the other hand, you see also from a big
escalations.
For example that's veryinteresting now is one of the
governments say to a big cyberincident, for new customers,
azure is the only thing you cando.
And we can say, okay, we don'tdo azure but we cannot help the
customer.
But not a year later.
(14:38):
That may be a little problemnow, but you need to be sure
that you have the stamps andthat you do the technical stuff
to keep them quiet so you can doyour work.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How has your employees their training, their
skill set?
How has that evolved as you'veoffered compliance?
Have you had to train peopleinternally?
Have you been able to do that?
Have you had to go out and hirenew types of individuals?
What?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
we do and I hope everyone is doing, that is, if
somebody is coming to audit us,everyone must say the true story
, no strange things.
Say what you're're doing,because we have written down
what we're doing, and then it'siso, not a problem right then
(15:26):
it's also not a problem.
If you uh make stuff up, thenit's a problem.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Documentation is half the battle, right yeah the
battle is always documentation.
For sure, it's still a battle,yeah so talk a little bit about
how bizway has matured andevolved.
What?
What do you do differently thanthan maybe others, like, how
have you really separatedyourself?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
um, one of the things that's very helping is coaching
.
So, yeah, that takes time, alsotime, yeah, so if, if you're an
owner and you're a technicalowner, that's one of the hardest
things, because if you ask meat 4 o'clock in the night, can
you help me with some CLI, Idon't say no, that's a big
(16:15):
problem.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So you must do other stuff, and one of the things is
that you get a coach and youmake promises with the coach
about your uh, home life, aboutyour work life, of your
everything, and stupid coach isasking a week later hi bart, how
is everything going?
Yeah, did you help four o'clockor did you say you can do, do
(16:41):
and go to sleep again?
Okay, and the second time I sayokay, I didn't go to sleep
again.
I'd F5 a lot if it's workingagain, but I didn't lock it.
Wow, next time they didn't,don't.
I need that you click down thelaptop.
I didn't do that, but it helpeda lot.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
That's great.
That's great advice getting acoach, getting someone that a
mentor, somebody that you canwork with, because you're,
naturally, again, a problemsolver, even though you're you.
You've evolved your professionright.
You're now a business owner,yeah, and you've been able to
give up half right Half, of thatsort of business.
(17:22):
You've been able to turn overto a larger group of people as
well.
It you would think it wouldfree you up, it would give you
more time to focus on thebusiness, but naturally you're a
problem solver and so you needsomeone that can tell you Bart,
don't do that, right, cut downon the amount of time those
calls at four o'clock in themorning.
You've hired somebody that canhandle those calls yeah, that's
(17:45):
really really important.
So for a time you were findingclients that were recovering
from ransomware incidents, butyou don't see that as a
long-term strategy right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, no, because gladly a lot of backups, cyber
recovery plans are working onthis moment.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
But we see a new kid on the block.
Yeah, we see regulation.
So NIST, too, is a very bigthing in europe.
And the other end is we'reseeing a lot of private equity
that buying companies andthey're saying, okay, cut off
the the niche, com, the nichecustomers, because we need to
grow.
So we need the standard, andone thing we like very much is
(18:26):
the non-standard customer.
So I'm very glad with all theprivate equity.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I've seen MSPs talk about those two big places.
They see themselves evolvingand you nailed one of them that
compliance, that governance,really, really important.
There are fewer and fewerservice providers that are able
to provide that service, thatare able to assist clients,
businesses, with theircompliance needs.
And the other one is reallysort of a business outcomes
(18:55):
right.
They're talking to theirbusinesses about how do you grow
, right, how do you grow yoursmall little car wash or your
doctor's office or whatever, andand you all are not, uh,
necessarily experts in theirlines of business but you can
help with things like, well, wecan provide a higher level of
service on the back end so youdon't have to worry about, yeah,
(19:18):
downtime or outages or orproblems like that.
So what are you the mostexcited for in the future, bart?
What does what does bizway inuh, five to ten years look like?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
it's an important question.
Yeah, um, of course we have.
We have five year year plansand I think we focus more.
Focus is the thing in the worldsorry for that, but focus
building.
So we are.
We are liking a lot of familycompanies, so you get families
(19:52):
with transport, logistics,chemical oil.
That's what we like and we wantto go forward on that one and I
think if we go on that and theway we are going, it's going to
be fast and good.
On the other hand, we don'twant to go dead.
(20:13):
So, for example, if I'm going100%, I got a big problem with
the other owner because he'ssaying okay, but you don't want
to go dead because a lot ofcompanies are doing that Right.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So, yeah, You've talked a lot about the value of
having a board, yeah, and theaccountability side of it.
So how are you and the boardlooking at sort of what's next
right?
I mean, you've talked a littlebit about the growth, the
direction you're heading.
How can boards help?
Maybe other MSPs?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I think one of the things is I'm starting too late
with the board.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So because I'm an owner technical.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I know everything better than Wooden.
That's the problem.
You need to have a strong boardand they cost a lot of money.
That's right.
But if you're falling down oryou need to have a conversation
with you without getting thephone, you need a board.
Without getting the phone, youneed a board.
So the strategy is to be surethat it's more professionally,
(21:14):
more focused, and that's what aboard is doing.
Because if you are a helpingguy, you want okay, you have a
printer store.
I can help you.
For the last time, I will helpyou with the grocery store.
It's not our fit, but I likeyou very much and you need to
have a board to say oh, bart, weneed to focus, we're going that
(21:35):
way.
So that's a very importantthing.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Same as the coach.
It's just simple.
Very good, bart.
We talked a little bit aboutthe future of Bizway.
How about you personally, whatare you hoping?
Little bit about the future ofbizway.
How about you personally, whatare you?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
what are you hoping?
What are some of your futuregoals?
Um, the strange thing is thatI'm.
I'm where I want to be.
I'm here, maybe my english.
What a thing.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But it's beautiful.
Thank you, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
That's yeah, so uh, but for a personal goal, I hope
that I can follow a long time.
So I know I'm going older now,so maybe every half year, every
year, involve yourself, butthat's okay.
I'm talking a lot with a lot ofinteresting people and I'm
(22:22):
liking it very much, and I'm forsure, if I'm going away from
the industry, I'm lost my nicehobby.
So I'm for sure, if I'm goingaway from the industry, I've
lost my nice hobby, so I'm notgoing away.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You're really good at what you do.
You made some difficultdecisions right, Giving up half
of the business a while back.
But I think it's probablyhelped you out right.
It's made you you're able tolast quite a bit longer, because
now you've got a bigger teamthat you can rely on Really
really important.
All right, Bart.
My last question, and I alwayslove to ask this when did you
(22:56):
know?
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, now we have COVID also in the Netherlands,
and when the call was coming ona nice Sunday evening from the
government we need your helpbecause we need very fast new
systems for everything, for QRcode, for vaccination, for
everything and every week arecoming the new call hey, we need
(23:22):
a new system.
And you can call other people.
Hey, we need help, you want togo outside, please help me?
And they trust you.
That's very nice.
And at the same time, we have asmall city in the Netherlands
that has ransomware and we didit together with a team with a
lot of external people andeveryone getting up to help, and
(23:45):
that was the end.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Awesome.
Bart.
I thank you so much for beinghere.
I wish you and the Bizway teamthe absolute best of luck in the
future and I look forward tostaying in touch.
Thanks so much, Thank you.
Thank you for this interview.
One, two, three, four .
It's nice to be a hero.
It's nice to fix things withother people saying, okay,
that's difficult.
Welcome to Now, that's it.
Stories of MSP success, wherewe dive into the journeys of
some of the trailblazers in ourindustry to find out how they
used their passion fortechnology to help turn managed
services into the thrivingsector it is today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Over the last 25 years, you would build one of
the most trusted MSPs inNetherlands, taking on most
vital and complex needs, withoutprivate equity, I may add.
Today, Bizway is the teamcompanies call when everything's
on fire, whether it's a cyberattack, a data breach or a full
(00:43):
systems failure.
So how did a kid with a passionfor tech become one of the most
respected voices in Europeancybersecurity?
Well, that's what we're goingto find out today.
Welcome to the Now that's itpodcast, Bart Lagaway.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What an introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I did my best, I tried to give you as much
justice as possible, but let youtell your own story.
So I always find the originstory really interesting from
our guests, bart.
So finding out, you know likewhat are your connections Like?
Tell us what were your earliestmemories of technology.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, the earliest memory, I'm 45.
So a lot of people with my age.
Internet was a thing then and Iwas one of the first person
with a mobile phone in theclassroom.
So when the mobile phone isgoing off I can say, hi, no
rules, no classroom rules.
And I did some street things.
So I helped in the city withcomputer problems and very fast
(01:45):
I get to know people, companies,that is hard to manage.
So it was very nice to dothings that other people finding
hard to manage.
So that's the story.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So you're a teenager helping business with technology
.
What was the thinking betweenmore schooling and starting your
own business?
What was the decision?
You were always the same.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah I don't like school, yeah, but my kids are
gonna hear this school is goodbut stay in school, stay in
school.
But the the problem is if youcan manage your own time and
your own decision.
It's very hard to, uh, you know, stay on school.
And the other problem was, um,I was not very much on school,
(02:31):
sorry, yeah.
So uh, the the school aresaying okay, uh, if you can, if
you want to manage this time,you can help us in the evening
for evening school, and then iseverything gone, because if you
are one of the guys in theevening, you're not one of the
childs in the day.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That's right.
So for 10 years it was justBart right Doing things your way
.
What kind of work is that Like?
Who were your clients in thatfirst decade?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
No, the clients are from little banks.
That's very nice.
Uh, data text I don't know whatit's called in the, yeah, but
it's the thing about after the,the, the old tv screens.
You got some text.
For example, the normalproviders or the old providers
for now are uh, are very hard tomanage.
(03:23):
Traffic information needles andall sorts of feeds Now we call
it feeds and I like to managethat and in the same time I'm
bold.
You see, I was also very youngbold.
So one of the nice things noteverything was very nice if
you're bold when you're young,but when I was 20, people were
(03:44):
thinking I was 30, so it wasnice.
So one of the things I'vemanaged strange enough is you
have 112 in Europe and in thepast, in year 2000, I've managed
one of the things of 112because they don't know my age
and I like that sort of stuff ofprojects.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So, after 10 years of solo, doing it by yourself, you
rented your first office andyou hired your first employees.
What triggered that?
What was the moment you said Ishould do this, I should go get
this building.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Time.
The time was up, so I want tomanage my clients and one of the
most interesting things butmaybe one of your questions that
we will see is that wasbreak-fix.
Everyone did break-fix in thattime.
So I hired my first employeeand I'm firing three months
(04:43):
later because I was thinking,okay, okay, it's not good enough
, but the problem is handlinghandling it to other persons
except of yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, still problem sometimes yeah, you try to hire
yourself yeah you're never gonnahire yourself always along with
owners, right, you want to, youalmost want to hire somebody
that's better.
Right, surround yourself withbetter people, and that's hard
to do as an owner as well.
So you, some msps, just theyprefer to grow organically.
They build their teams, theycontinue to grow, at whatever
(05:16):
pace that is.
You took a different path.
You had a small acquisition,yeah, early on.
Who were you targeting?
What?
What?
What is it specifically thatyou were looking for?
Every?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
six months.
We bought a company and it'sstarting very small 10,000 euro
revenue a year.
So it's very small to 1,000 to1 million.
And why we did that is therewas always one or two customers
that need very much extra help,so it was our acquisition
marketing sales.
Much extra help, so it was ouracquisition marketing sales.
Everything inside and it waseasy because you get a lot of
(05:51):
customers and you can pick whichone needs more attention for
security, compliance and allsort of stuff so you said a real
breakthrough was when you soldhalf the company.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
yeah, talk that, talk that, tell us about that story.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, six years ago I sold the half, so 50%.
So a little bit risky there,yeah, but my co-owner now and I
did like it very much because weneed to be sure that we are
having the same focus.
A lot of private equity arebuying companies and the owner
(06:26):
will go away, and most of thetime not in the two years buyout
, but one year or three months,because we're not very good with
Excel and other people managing.
So what we did is we sold thehalf, so I get the same energy.
I'm talking to you six yearslater and I'm very happy with
(06:48):
that because you got some nowsome nice things.
You got some money on the moneyon the bank.
Yeah, that's one of thesolutions that's great for the
family and all sort of stuff andyou chose IMG right.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Why?
Why?
Why IMG over just sort ofregular private equity?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, because two things.
One of the main things that wasvery nice is that you can look
at the kitchen.
So you know the story already.
I see you smiling.
It's very nice that you arebought with a bigger company,
but not so big with 150 peoplewe are with 20, 30 then and you
(07:29):
can look in the kitchen.
Hey, that's really nice.
That's not nice and sometimesI'm not feeling nice and two
years later maybe it's a goodidea.
So it's very nice to look atthe kitchen without a problem
there.
And the other thing was is wehave both the same focus, only
the focus with eimg is health,and the focus on our end is
(07:54):
nothing except everything,except health yeah because you
want to have some risk, you cantake some risk.
Sometimes if somebody, somethingis broken, so a system is
broken totally, you can do otherrisk things with non-health
than health.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
How has your business model evolved with the growth
of the business?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, with all the standard things.
Sorry for that.
So we have sales, servicemanagement, project management,
itsm.
We have everything.
Service management, projectmanagement, uh, itsm.
We have everything now becausecustomers need it yeah, for sure
it's.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It's interesting and I went through a very similar.
We were about a 50 person msp.
Uh, that was acquired by about120 130 personP, so very similar
.
All of a sudden you're the newkids on the block in the company
, but you've got all thisexperience with different levels
(09:37):
of service, and so you bringyour own expertise into a bigger
portfolio, but all of a suddenyou're three times, four times
as large right so that's a goodand a bad thing.
You have to evolve what you'redoing and how you're delivering
your services, and it's greatthat you have a group of people
yeah, yeah and evolve.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I, I tell people I need to evolve also every six
months.
So you need to involve.
I'm here with you, I'm inberlin and it's to listen.
You need to learn.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, so you're primarily attracted to the most
important and critical thingsand the things that have been
broken the most.
Why is that, Bart?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's nice to be a hero, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Isn't it?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, people are working with us and myself I'm
working also.
Yeah, it's nice to fix things,but other people saying, okay,
that's difficult, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So is that a challenge, though?
I mean the significance.
Significance, the monetaryvalue, right, always, always
trying to put fires out.
I mean, is that how you werebuilt?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
that's how your brain was built yeah, that's a
problem because always is thedark side in my head yeah yeah
when it's coming.
So, um, you're, I'm a technicalguy so you'll always think,
okay, that's change, okay,that's okay, but if that is
going down, we need to fix that.
Always the mindset.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, a lot of technicians I don't want to say
most, but a lot of techniciansdon't like change, right.
They like I can handle thesesort of things.
I know I'll knock these thingsout of the box, but when it's
outside of that scope they get alittle anxious.
But that's not you, bart right?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You look for that?
Ooh, I've not seen that before.
Let's go figure that out.
That's neat.
Where do you think that camefrom?
Why do you think you're thatway?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I think it's nice to acknowledge yourself and your
environment.
So if you want to learn and getit in, control, that's a nice
feeling.
I think it's a rush.
It's an.
It's an.
Uh, how do you call?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
it, yeah, yeah.
Well, you just said, every sixmonths you're trying to evolve,
whether it be your business oryourself, exactly, and so the
only way to do that is to exposeyourself to some new things,
right?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
some new opportunities, new challenges,
sometimes hard, sometimes hard,for sure, I bet you.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There's days where you go home and it doesn't feel
like you got anythingaccomplished right, yeah, that's
hard.
So how do you find clients inthat niche, in that sort of
firefighter niche, like yeah,where do they come from?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
um government, for example, and one of the things
is you make, you need to maketime for it.
So I have a lot of discussionof compliance for free.
So I'm working a lot ofgovernments without sending a
bill, but it's now free.
I see you're smiling becauseyou know why.
Marketing know your name, namedropping, name dropping and
(12:36):
that's one of the things I'mgetting clients of, because you
need to be sure.
It's not free, so you cannotmake a sign on the building.
You must.
If you give time to it, you canalso get some things back
because you're the expert or youknow what you're talking about
(12:57):
and that's important.
So people need to know you andthey need to know your company
of course, sure.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Can you talk a little bit about compliance?
When did that come around?
You mentioned government, so ifyou're working with governments
, that's the first thing that'son their mind, right?
Did you realize that compliancewas an avenue that Bizway
should be focused on early on?
How long ago?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Maybe from the wrong thing, because one of the most
important thing if you want tomake hurry, if something is on
fire, you don't want to haveproblems with compliance Right,
so you need to be sure you haveall the stamps.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And that's why we're beginning with the compliancy
Now.
It's helping a lot because it'sa framework and you can say,
okay, it's an iso or an n orsomething like that, but it's um
.
The first thing why we did itwas because we don't want to
have an in a government oranother company saying, okay,
you can help, but you don't havethis stamp, so sorry yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So it's a, it's a sales tool for you as well,
right?
Because, uh, it's one thing ifbark comes in and says, oh, this
is what you need, yeah.
But if you show a regulatedbodies document that says these
are the things that you know thegovernment needs, or or a
finance sector needs, uh, theybelieve it.
It's from the government, right?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
so on the other hand, you see also from a big
escalations.
For example that's veryinteresting now is one of the
governments say to a big cyberincident, for new customers,
azure is the only thing you cando.
And we can say, okay, we don'tdo azure but we cannot help the
customer.
But not a year later.
(14:38):
That may be a little problemnow, but you need to be sure
that you have the stamps andthat you do the technical stuff
to keep them quiet so you can doyour work.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How has your employees their training, their
skill set?
How has that evolved as you'veoffered compliance?
Have you had to train peopleinternally?
Have you been able to do that?
Have you had to go out and hirenew types of individuals?
What?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
we do and I hope everyone is doing, that is, if
somebody is coming to audit us,everyone must say the true story
, no strange things.
Say what you're're doing,because we have written down
what we're doing, and then it'siso, not a problem right then
(15:26):
it's also not a problem.
If you uh make stuff up, thenit's a problem.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Documentation is half the battle, right yeah the
battle is always documentation.
For sure, it's still a battle,yeah so talk a little bit about
how bizway has matured andevolved.
What?
What do you do differently thanthan maybe others, like, how
have you really separatedyourself?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
um, one of the things that's very helping is coaching
.
So, yeah, that takes time, alsotime, yeah, so if, if you're an
owner and you're a technicalowner, that's one of the hardest
things, because if you ask meat 4 o'clock in the night, can
you help me with some CLI, Idon't say no, that's a big
(16:15):
problem.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So you must do other stuff, and one of the things is
that you get a coach and youmake promises with the coach
about your uh, home life, aboutyour work life, of your
everything, and stupid coach isasking a week later hi bart, how
is everything going?
Yeah, did you help four o'clockor did you say you can do, do
(16:41):
and go to sleep again?
Okay, and the second time I sayokay, I didn't go to sleep
again.
I'd F5 a lot if it's workingagain, but I didn't lock it.
Wow, next time they didn't,don't.
I need that you click down thelaptop.
I didn't do that, but it helpeda lot.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
That's great.
That's great advice getting acoach, getting someone that a
mentor, somebody that you canwork with, because you're,
naturally, again, a problemsolver, even though you're you.
You've evolved your professionright.
You're now a business owner,yeah, and you've been able to
give up half right Half, of thatsort of business.
(17:22):
You've been able to turn overto a larger group of people as
well.
It you would think it wouldfree you up, it would give you
more time to focus on thebusiness, but naturally you're a
problem solver and so you needsomeone that can tell you Bart,
don't do that, right, cut downon the amount of time those
calls at four o'clock in themorning.
You've hired somebody that canhandle those calls yeah, that's
(17:45):
really really important.
So for a time you were findingclients that were recovering
from ransomware incidents, butyou don't see that as a
long-term strategy right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, no, because gladly a lot of backups, cyber
recovery plans are working onthis moment.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
But we see a new kid on the block.
Yeah, we see regulation.
So NIST, too, is a very bigthing in europe.
And the other end is we'reseeing a lot of private equity
that buying companies andthey're saying, okay, cut off
the the niche, com, the nichecustomers, because we need to
grow.
So we need the standard, andone thing we like very much is
(18:26):
the non-standard customer.
So I'm very glad with all theprivate equity.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I've seen MSPs talk about those two big places.
They see themselves evolvingand you nailed one of them that
compliance, that governance,really, really important.
There are fewer and fewerservice providers that are able
to provide that service, thatare able to assist clients,
businesses, with theircompliance needs.
And the other one is reallysort of a business outcomes
(18:55):
right.
They're talking to theirbusinesses about how do you grow
, right, how do you grow yoursmall little car wash or your
doctor's office or whatever, andand you all are not, uh,
necessarily experts in theirlines of business but you can
help with things like, well, wecan provide a higher level of
service on the back end so youdon't have to worry about, yeah,
(19:18):
downtime or outages or orproblems like that.
So what are you the mostexcited for in the future, bart?
What does what does bizway inuh, five to ten years look like?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
it's an important question.
Yeah, um, of course we have.
We have five year year plansand I think we focus more.
Focus is the thing in the worldsorry for that, but focus
building.
So we are.
We are liking a lot of familycompanies, so you get families
(19:52):
with transport, logistics,chemical oil.
That's what we like and we wantto go forward on that one and I
think if we go on that and theway we are going, it's going to
be fast and good.
On the other hand, we don'twant to go dead.
(20:13):
So, for example, if I'm going100%, I got a big problem with
the other owner because he'ssaying okay, but you don't want
to go dead because a lot ofcompanies are doing that Right.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So, yeah, You've talked a lot about the value of
having a board, yeah, and theaccountability side of it.
So how are you and the boardlooking at sort of what's next
right?
I mean, you've talked a littlebit about the growth, the
direction you're heading.
How can boards help?
Maybe other MSPs?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I think one of the things is I'm starting too late
with the board.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So because I'm an owner technical.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I know everything better than Wooden.
That's the problem.
You need to have a strong boardand they cost a lot of money.
That's right.
But if you're falling down oryou need to have a conversation
with you without getting thephone, you need a board.
Without getting the phone, youneed a board.
So the strategy is to be surethat it's more professionally,
(21:14):
more focused, and that's what aboard is doing.
Because if you are a helpingguy, you want okay, you have a
printer store.
I can help you.
For the last time, I will helpyou with the grocery store.
It's not our fit, but I likeyou very much and you need to
have a board to say oh, bart, weneed to focus, we're going that
(21:35):
way.
So that's a very importantthing.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Same as the coach.
It's just simple.
Very good, bart.
We talked a little bit aboutthe future of Bizway.
How about you personally, whatare you hoping?
Little bit about the future ofbizway.
How about you personally, whatare you?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
what are you hoping?
What are some of your futuregoals?
Um, the strange thing is thatI'm.
I'm where I want to be.
I'm here, maybe my english.
What a thing.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But it's beautiful.
Thank you, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
That's yeah, so uh, but for a personal goal, I hope
that I can follow a long time.
So I know I'm going older now,so maybe every half year, every
year, involve yourself, butthat's okay.
I'm talking a lot with a lot ofinteresting people and I'm
(22:22):
liking it very much, and I'm forsure, if I'm going away from
the industry, I'm lost my nicehobby.
So I'm for sure, if I'm goingaway from the industry, I've
lost my nice hobby, so I'm notgoing away.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You're really good at what you do.
You made some difficultdecisions right, Giving up half
of the business a while back.
But I think it's probablyhelped you out right.
It's made you you're able tolast quite a bit longer, because
now you've got a bigger teamthat you can rely on Really
really important.
All right, Bart.
My last question, and I alwayslove to ask this when did you
(22:56):
know?
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, now we have COVID also in the Netherlands,
and when the call was coming ona nice Sunday evening from the
government we need your helpbecause we need very fast new
systems for everything, for QRcode, for vaccination, for
everything and every week arecoming the new call hey, we need
(23:22):
a new system.
And you can call other people.
Hey, we need help, you want togo outside, please help me?
And they trust you.
That's very nice.
And at the same time, we have asmall city in the Netherlands
that has ransomware and we didit together with a team with a
lot of external people andeveryone getting up to help, and
(23:45):
that was the end.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Awesome.
Bart.
I thank you so much for beinghere.
I wish you and the Bizway teamthe absolute best of luck in the
future and I look forward tostaying in touch.
Thanks so much, Thank you.
Thank you for this interview.
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