September 11, 2025 • 43 mins
What does it take to build a $20M MSP without a traditional sales team? In this episode of Now That’s IT: Stories of MSP Success, Chris Massey sits down with Simon Marcil, co-founder of S3 Technologies and creator of Propel Your MSP, to explore the power of retention, strategy, and AI-driven innovation.
Simon shares how S3 grew by focusing on client value and strategic alignment, why tracking profitability per client matters, and how simple, continuous improvements can transform both service delivery and customer relationships. He also reveals how S3 integrates AI into daily operations—from ticket triage and escalation to bilingual communication and client-facing tools—and why MSPs that fail to embrace it risk being left behind.
Whether you’re an MSP leader looking to scale, refine your client engagement, or take your first steps with AI, Simon’s story is packed with actionable insights and real-world lessons.
Let us help you unlock your business's full potential.
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'Now that's it: Stories of MSP Success,' dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
One, two, three, four .
Because to grow the business,you have to change.
Right, Because your business ischanging.
We have 100 people in ourbusiness today.
I told you we hit the wall at50.
We didn't know what we weredoing.
The only way to get past thoseroadblocks is actually for you
to grow and to learn.
And I know that, OK, we have100 person, $20 million MSP
(00:22):
today.
But to keep growing this thing,I need to learn and I need to
change.
Welcome to Now.
That's.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It stories of MSP success, where we dive into the
journeys of some of thetrailblazers in our industry to
find out how they use theirpassion for technology to help
turn managed services into thethriving sector it is today.
Today's guest is the incrediblymulti-talented Simon Marcel,
co-founder of S3 Technologiesand creator of Propel your MSP,
(00:49):
a strategic planning platformbuilt by MSPs for MSPs.
Simon was one of the earlyadopters of the VCIO services,
turning internal innovation intoscalable tools, as his journey
started supporting clients whilestill in university, and since
then he's been navigating everymajor shift in the MSP landscape
(01:09):
.
Today, simon is helping shapewhat modern client engagement,
strategic alignment andAI-powered services can look
like for MSPs and end userseverywhere, all while running
and skiing across the globe.
Simon, welcome to the Nowthat's it podcast.
So excited to have you tellyour story today.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, thanks for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, it's great.
So, just like a lot of ourpartners that we've had, tell
our stories a lot of our guests,your computer and IT days
started pretty early on, right,and for you it wasn't just
tinkering, you had a realbusiness early on.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah.
So I guess I got my firstcomputer in high school and kind
of learned computer by myselfand also in our computer classes
.
And before university I starteda business with one of my
partners still a partner todayand that's how we got into it.
So I guess our first computerbusiness we were 18.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Wow, yeah, and you ran that for a number of years,
sort of through university,through school.
You finished school and youkind of think to yourself you're
not getting what you wantnecessarily out of the existing
business.
So you say, hey, I've done thisbefore, I can do it again.
Let me start something new.
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it's not, it's not exactly that.
So we had started a businessthe summer before university and
it actually worked, which wassurprising for us at the time.
And we started at first.
It was, you know, like I said,we were 18 years old, so it was
a lot of family friends.
We started at first.
It was, you know, like I said,we were 18 years old, so it was
a lot of family friends, thatkind of thing and some small
businesses started being clients.
(02:49):
And then, as university started,we were starting computer
engineering and we realized thatwe wouldn't have enough time to
take care of our clientsproperly.
So through a contact we knewsomebody who had basically a VAR
who sold a lot of hardware tosmall and medium-sized
businesses and we were able totransfer our clients to him, or
to that business, I should say.
And we worked there part-timethrough university and while
(03:11):
working there this was in thetime of it was like 1998, 1999.
So there was the year 2000 orY2K bug coming, so people are
changing their computers likecrazy and basically the price of
hardware was going down.
So working there I kind ofrealized that it was crazy that
(03:31):
all they were doing is reallyselling hardware and almost
giving the service away.
And I remember going to see myboss at the time and saying
every time I go because I wasdoing installation.
I was doing everythinginstallations, that kind of
thing.
So I was like, every time I gosee a client, their backups are
screwed up, everything's a mess.
Why don't we sell them somekind of proactive maintenance
plan?
And he at the time said, yeah,but he was a VAR guy, he was a
(03:55):
smart guy for sure.
But he was like, yeah, if youwant to do it, try it out.
So I was like, okay.
So I kind of built the program,sold it to clients and it
worked and the clients wereexcited.
So to me it was clear that theway forward was definitely on
the service side and toaccompany these businesses that
didn't have IT people internally.
(04:15):
So when we finished university,the vision was already set and
it was like we are starting aservice business IT consulting
which at the time managedservices, or at least we had
never heard that term before.
So we really started a managedservice business in 2003.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And that was the beginning of S3?
.
That was the beginning of S3.
And so talk a little bit aboutwho were your customers at that
point in time, early on, andwhat sort of problems were you
solving in the early days?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, so our customers we weren't very picky,
I'll be honest.
We were really lucky.
So what we did is we went tosee some VARs who were selling
hardware but who couldn'tinstall it or maintain this
stuff properly.
So we were subcontracted quitea bit and we were lucky because
one of the bigger ones ended upwell, they closed.
I don't know if they wentbankrupt, I don't know exactly
(05:03):
what happened, but they were outof business.
So we ended up well, theyclosed.
I don't know if they wentbankrupt, I don't know exactly
what happened, but they were outof business.
So we ended up with all thoseclients that were our clients,
that really, really helped usout.
Sometimes you need to get lucky.
The kind of problems we weresolving for clients initially
was just stuff was not stable.
As you know, right, inbusinesses people were running
Windows 98.
There was Windows NT.
At the time I remember we metlike a law firm who had had
(05:28):
their exchange server be downfor almost two weeks, you know.
But we had met them and uh, Iguess this happened a couple
months before and we were 23 or24 at that time and you know,
they signed up as a client.
Now I think of that.
I'm like that's insane today,if you had a sizable law firm,
they were maybe 50 users, butthey had so much pain with stuff
(05:48):
being unstable.
Like I said, their exchangeserver had been down for two
weeks in the past.
So really I think in thoseyears like 2003 to 2006, maybe
even 2007,.
it was really all about makingsure there was no downtime yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
You talk about not being picky.
I remember in my early MSP daysyou said yes before you
realized if you could deliverthe service or not.
How often was that sort offiguring it out in the early
days?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh man Novell, oh, yeah, sure, We've got a guy yeah
, our attitude was, if it can bedone, we'll figure it out.
So basically we would.
So we would search online like,can this be done?
Whatever it was?
And then, if it could be done,we're like, yeah, we'll figure
it out.
We've changed our ways in amassive way today.
(06:36):
Sometimes I think we're alittle too corporate.
I'm exaggerating, but that'sthe entrepreneur in me.
But yeah, it's funny how itreally really helps you in the
beginning to do that sort of, tobe ambitious and kind of take
on these challenges.
But as the business grows andgets bigger, you have to uh, you
know, stay focused on on whatyou do.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's something that you learned out, not
necessarily the hard way, butover the time as you grow.
You have to be in order toscale.
You've got to be a little bit.
You've got to be much morestandard and a bit more strict
and you have to redefine yourICP right your who, your clients
are.
So talk a little bit about whatS3, you know, those early days
you were sort of saying yes toeverything.
How long did it take before youstarted to say we really are
(07:20):
just looking for this type ofindustry or this type of client.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
What are just looking for this type of industry or
this type of client.
What was that like?
What was that maturation like?
So we grew the business prettyquick.
I think when we got to about 50employees we really hit a wall.
We were pretty young and Idon't know that we really knew
what we were doing in business.
Actually, I know we didn't knowwhat we were doing and, yeah,
that was a hard point for us toget through.
So I think once we got there iswhen we really started reading
books and looking atmethodologies to run our
(07:54):
business, like we use EOS.
But back then we had readRockefeller Habits and I think
that's something we had sort ofimplemented and started really
thinking about okay, what areour services, who are we
offering them to?
And just having a structure.
But it definitely I want to sayprobably 2009-ish, so a good
(08:14):
five to six years of us kind ofhustling.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I see MSPs, it's hard to say no to revenue,
right.
I mean for a while, when you'regrowing, anything coming in the
door is great, right, thathelps your top line.
But as you get to that 50 mark,you start to say not all
revenue is good revenue, right.
And so you guys in your brainhad to say we want to do
(08:40):
something special here,something in these four walls.
Yes, there's exceptions, but inorder for us to continue to
grow this, we have to scale it acertain way.
So I think that's really,really important.
Talk a little bit about yoursales team.
Did you have a sales team?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
We did not have a sales team.
We still do not have a salesteam, which makes us a bit of an
anomaly.
So we have a $20 million MSP,which is organic.
So we haven't done anyacquisitions yet.
We would love to do it.
It's fantastic, thanks.
We have half a salespersonwhich is one of my partners.
I say that because he managesour account managers.
(09:22):
At some point he was doing itfull time.
So we have one or half asalesperson, so it's really
important for us to have reallylow churn.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, that's kind of the trick, which is a great lead
in.
You focused so much onretention.
Why is that equal growth?
Why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So as an MSP, I mean there's really I guess there's
three numbers right there's yoursales, your new clients,
there's your churn and thenthere's how much you're raising
your clients.
Those are the three numbers youcan focus on.
Sales is definitely the hardestone to go get new clients and
then for us, churn is kind ofsort of the low hanging fruit.
(10:05):
One to go out and to make sureit's as small as possible, but
it's also in line with ourphilosophy.
For us, what's really importantis to bring value to our
clients and to feel that it'skind of silly.
But I think the thing that we Isay we like myself and my
partners enjoy the most is whena client just thanks us and it's
like hey guys, you know, we hada client recently when we
(10:26):
started with them and they wereabout I think they were a
hundred or 115, and they'vealmost tripled their business.
They're like 300.
And they were like we justreally want to thank you, guys.
We could not have done thiswithout you, and that means
everything to us and it's kindof why we got in business to
help people.
All that to say that reducingthe churn is also in line with
what we want to do, so that'sreally why we attack that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's amazing.
So follow up on this.
You were very invested in whatI would consider high sort of
time intensive, cost, heavythings like road mapping out,
three year plans, things likethat for your customers.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Why was that so important?
(11:57):
At whatever stage that happened, we how did that start?
I'm trying to think.
So we started that quite early.
I was the one who started itmyself and it was just.
Yeah, I was just thinking about.
I don't remember if it actuallycame from a client the first
time we did it, but it justseemed natural.
I'm guessing it probably camefrom a client who want to know a
little like, give us a budgetand um, but it happened
(12:17):
organically and really quick,like we were a small company,
cause I was doing it for all ofour clients and pretty quick we
got into.
You know, we would onboard aclient and get back to them with
a three-year pretty detailedplan in terms of the projects
that were coming and also theirbudget, and it's something that
our clients loved and it wasdefinitely a differentiator at
(12:39):
the time and I still think todaythere's a lot of room to do
that properly.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, talk a little bit about what one of those
engagements looks like and againwe'll get to the sort of VCIO
service that you have as well.
But what types of questions areyou asking and answering, and
what does success look like inone of those engagements?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
We like to have what we call a strategic alignment
session with our clients.
So once a year and wedefinitely do this at the
beginning of the engagement withthe client we will have a
session with them where we'rejust asking them the questions,
typically about their business,and we're taking notes and
that's it.
We want to basically speak likeI don't know 3% of the time.
(13:22):
The rest of the time we're justtaking notes.
So the questions are open-endedand we'll ask where are you
going for your business?
What is it?
What are the next three years,five years, look like for you?
What are your biggestchallenges?
We'll dig into are there somedepartments you're looking to
grow, some services you'relooking to add?
What kind of clients you'regoing after?
And then we'll touch IT and seeis IT working?
(13:47):
Where are the challenges there?
And then we will actually askthem what does success look like
for you in a year from now?
And that, I think, is a superimportant question for MSPs to
ask all their clients.
Because basically you'retelling the client hey, in a
year from now, tell me what itis that you're going to be super
stoked about us.
And then they will tell you,and then you about us, and then
(14:09):
you know, and they will tell you, and then you do that and you
just cycle that every year and Imean that's been the key for to
our retention basically that'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Starts to make sense why you don't necessarily need a
sales team when you're havingthose sort of strategic
conversations with your clientsright, yeah, I mean you could.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yes, as long as your retention, your retention is
high or churn is low, you don'tneed a huge sales team unless
you really really want to growquick.
But we were never about highgrowth, I think we struggled to.
There were some periods whereyou had a little bit of faster
growth, but 15% growth is kindof just perfect for us.
(14:45):
Faster than that it almostfeels like the wheels are
starting to not fall off, butjust you know.
So yeah, it works for us, butthe key is really the retention.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Thank you, guys.
We talked a little bit ahead oftime.
I think your net profit is veryhigh as well, and when that
number starts to get reallylarge, that's when it starts to
feel like the wheels might falloff.
And so you've done things veryefficiently, even with the staff
that you had, and so now it'sabout when do we hire, or how do
we hire versus how many moreclients do we take on?
(15:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, early on.
It's funny when you weretalking at the beginning and I
was telling you we hit the wallat about 50 people.
We also hit the wall ofprofitability, where at some
point if you have clients thatyou're not making money on, you
can't outsell that problem.
You have to go back and eithermake those clients profitable or
move on.
It's not going to work.
(15:39):
So that's a lesson we learnedtoo at that moment and kind of
went back and cleaned up thoseskeletons in our closet.
That's great, and it's reallysomething that stuck to me.
It's like if you haveunprofitable clients, you will
never outsell that problem.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
One of the best pieces of advice that I think
anybody gave us was you know,look at the profitability of
every single one of your clients, measure that on a month to
month basis, understand whythings went up or why they went
down, and if they continue to godown consistently, then it's
time to have that conversationwith the client.
Absolutely, yeah, we, we trackthat?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, we.
We track that on a monthlybasis for every single client
and, of course, we look fortrends, right, you're not.
You know, every client willhave some difficult periods.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So something really interesting that you shared with
us, stephen with Stephen and Iahead of time, simon was you
mentioned the importance ofengaging every single user at a
client organization.
How do you offer such a whiteglove service and also scale
that?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think it's a mindset and it's not one.
It's something we've comeacross, I'm going to say,
recently, relatively recently.
It's been years now.
I think MSPs and we were guiltyof this will often think about
their client as their point ofcontacts at the client and we
decided to what if we think ofevery single user as a client,
and what does that user'sjourney look like with us?
(17:00):
And really the goal is, if youdo a good job with every single
users, these users move aroundand again, this all comes down
to us not having manysalespeople.
These users move around and youget referrals and you can get
referrals from any single userat a client.
But I would challenge MSPs tothink about how many of these
users actually know who you areand understand your services and
(17:23):
do you have a relationship withthem.
So when we started the businessand up until I want to say
maybe five years ago likeonboarding a new user wasn't
something we did we thought,well, that's our client's job,
they have a new employee, theyshould onboard them, tell them
this is how you reach S3, and soon.
So we had some clients who dida great job at that and some
(17:45):
clients who didn't do such agreat job at that, so we decided
to basically take over thatprocess.
So when a new user starts at aclient, we have an onboarding
for that new user.
It's mostly digital, dependingon the user, but we want to have
points of contact with theseusers, so welcoming them,
explaining to them basicallywhat we do, how they can reach
(18:07):
us, and then some tips in termsof the tools we're using.
Basically, give them sometraining and then keep in touch
with them.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's great.
So you're doing this reallygreat thing, this VCIO role,
your strategic planning.
You're having theseconversations, but you identify
a pretty apparent gap, right.
It was hard to scale thiswithout automating it in some
fashion, right?
And so you saw an opportunity.
And what happened?
How did these meetings withyour customers turn into this
(18:38):
VCIO offering that you'redelivering to other MSPs now?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things in this
actually, and this is somethingwe help MSPs with.
So a lot of people have a hardtime scaling the VCIO services
they offer for a number ofreasons.
The first one is normally it'sowner-led.
In our case, I was the onedoing it at first and a lot of
people struggle to find goodVCIOs and for us what really
(19:05):
made this thing scalable is whenwe split the role of VCIO and
account manager.
Typically in a lot of MSPsyou'll have a VCIO, which is
basically an account manager, aVCIO and a project manager all
in one, and those skill sets arevery, very different.
So a VCIO for us is somebodythat's very technical, creative,
(19:30):
that can really explaintechnical concepts to clients,
and an account manager issomebody, on the other hand,
that's very organized, nothingslips through the cracks, the
follow-ups, and who's also thereto have the tougher
conversations.
So your VCIO is that trustedadvisor.
But it's a funny role whenyou're the trusted advisor but
also getting into like disputesbut conversations over billing,
(19:52):
that kind of thing.
So splitting that role made itreally a lot easier to go and
find good VCIOs and good accountmanagers and to stop looking
for a unicorn.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing after that isyeah is how much time it took to
actually build these roadmaps,and so we started automating the
(20:13):
process and that's how westarted Propel your MSP.
So a good friend of mine,Dominic we did computer
engineering together and he hadjust exited a SaaS company that
he had started, so it felt likethe perfect time to start Propel
your MSP to, basically.
But at first it was let's startthis thing.
We know it's really going tohelp us and, of course, it'll
(20:34):
help other MSPs, and it was theonly way we could build a
software like this.
It would be too expensive tobuild just for S3.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, so you build this software platform.
Talk about some of the earlyMSPs, or your early customers.
How different did they lookthan maybe your early customers
in your S3 days?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You're talking about MSPs using Propeller.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
MSP yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, well, there was a mix.
So we were a larger MSP, so wereally built a platform
originally for larger MSPs.
I'm not saying we built it forlarge MSPs, but we had thought
about a lot of the details thatare important for when you're a
(21:20):
large MSP and when you have somelarger clients.
So a lot of our clients wereactually larger MSPs at first.
So that for us made a lot ofsense because we knew that
business really well.
It was more for the sort of thegrowing MSPs that maybe our
platform was maybe toocustomizable, you know, and we
(21:41):
realized that a lot of MSPs wantto be a little more guided in
terms of hey, how do we scalethese VCIO services?
What do the processes look like?
Those things Awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So talk about how S3 has evolved since Propel has
become a product, and then howhave each business helped each
other grow?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
S3 has definitely evolved in a massive way.
It's probably helped, maybe,that I am sort of spending a lot
of time in Propel.
It's actually helped me delegatea lot more.
So that's been really reallygood and it's helped me only
focus on the strategic part ofS3.
So for me, that's who areclients, what are the services
(22:25):
we're providing to them?
So S3 recently I think we'vedone a really really good job at
improving a lot of ourefficiencies, so, like our
internal processes also ofrefocusing on our clients' needs
.
I would say and by that I meanI think we've had I mean
(22:50):
everybody's been hit with calledthe tsunami of cybersecurity,
and it's something that we'vealways been really good at
cybersecurity.
We have a cybersecurity team,but I think that maybe I don't
want to say we over-focused onit, because it's super important
and it always will be, but I dothink the basic, like the
reason our clients havecomputers, is to make themselves
more productive, more efficient.
(23:10):
It's not to secure them right.
So I think MSPs maybe have losta little bit.
They've lost sight of this alittle bit and I think so we've
had to refocus on bringing ourclients basically productivity,
efficiency, while still focusingon cybersecurity.
I think is super important Interms of Propel, while having S3
(23:30):
, like for me, I'm in the game,like I'm in the MSP game.
I've been doing it now for 23years.
We wouldn't be able to propelthe way we build it without
having that exposure, so it'sdefinitely helped propel a lot.
And then for me it'sinteresting to meet other MSPs
too and see how they're doingthings.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But we've always sort of been in we're in a peer
group called TPGpg, so we'vealways interacted a lot with
msps so it's kind of acontinuation of that I hear a
lot of msps say like joining apeer group early on was a big
game changer, right the minutethat you, you sort of know what
you know.
But the minute you get into agroup with other msps that feel
comfortable enough sharing, well, this is where our pricing's at
(24:13):
.
This is how we do things.
These are the mistakes thatwe've made.
You can really change your MSP.
You feel the same thing aboutTPG A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It was game changing and I don't use that lightly.
And a big shout out to GaryPica, who hooked us up with TPG
and we actually I think we endedup taking his role because as
he exited his company he was inTPG and then obviously he
started True Methods.
But we met him and he referredus to them because he was I
think he was surprised at thetime by how large of an MSP we
(24:45):
had, without kind of knowingwhat we were doing.
We'd kind of done this on ourown and we're Canadian from
Quebec, isolated and he was likeokay, I think I've got the
right peer group for you.
And he hooked us up with TPGand it was mind-blowing, really
good.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So back to the question before.
So you stepped away from notstepped away, but you refocused
on Propel versus S3.
It allowed S3 to sort of grow.
So for MSP owners out there,you either go and start your own
business or maybe spend alittle bit more time focusing on
the business right, being a bitmore strategic than having your
(25:23):
hands in.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, I think it depends on your strengths.
But for me in S3 now, you know,when they talk about working in
the business versus working onthe business, and there's a lot
of talk about that, and I thinkfor a long time I was kind of
like, yeah, come on, you need todo some work.
But now I've kind of embracedthis a lot more and everything I
do at S3 is I'm not working onone client, I'm working on all
(25:50):
our clients at a time, so I'mreally working on projects or
things we're putting in place.
That impacts all our clientsand that has helped S3
tremendously and it's alsosomething I really, really enjoy
doing, instead of being in theminutia of one client.
I don't know if that makessense.
And then I realized that that'sreally what it is when you work
on the business and I thinkit's important and I was having
(26:13):
this conversation actually withmy partners just a couple of
days ago.
We are becoming a bit of aproduct company at S3, in the
sense that our manage, like youknow, we've been in this for 23
years.
At the time we were always justwe consider ourselves a service
company and now, like ourmanaged service is a product
we're delivering to our clientsand we need to have a roadmap on
(26:33):
how we're improving this.
What are the tweaks we're doingand what's our long-term vision
?
And we're starting to have moreand more people working on,
like I said, efficiencies, butalso the roadmap of our managed
services, what they're going tolook like Do you have a product
manager or someone that sort ofoversees the direction of the
managed services business?
(26:55):
under S3?
Yeah, so we have a team nowthat does that.
I think I'm the product manager.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Or at least the decider.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
We've got somebody who does more of the detail
planning, but that's notsomething we used to have.
But there's so many things.
Now We've integrated a bunch ofautomation, obviously AI, chat,
support, all these things,portal and all these automations
and it's kind of like, okay, wereally need a roadmap.
We have so many initiatives andit's you know where are we
(27:27):
heading in those.
So we're becoming.
It's funny and Propel, in a way, has helped that, because in
Propel, we are a product company.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So, yeah, that's great.
All right, speaking of sort ofbetter client relationship and
retention, this is the section Ilike to call advice, because I
think you've you're prettyunique in the industry, simon,
where you've been around for along time.
You've you've built your ownMSP to a level that most MSPs
don't get to, but you've alsogone out and created this, this
amazing product.
(27:53):
On the side, let's talk alittle bit about AI.
How do you see AI, what role doyou see AI playing for MSPs
going forward?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I think everybody needs to embrace it and if not,
you will be sort of left behind.
We've done a lot of itourselves, but I think there's
some products now that arepopping up that can do a lot of
it.
So we use AI to do a lot ofsort of repetitive.
It's a mix of automation and AI, but I'll give you a couple
examples.
So for us, every ticket thatcomes in, basically AI will
(28:27):
auto-categorize it, assign apriority reply to the client,
possibly ask for moreinformation.
We have auto-escalation.
So if it sees that, oh, it's acybersecurity issue, it will be
escalated to our cybersecurityteam.
If it judges, oh, this is anissue that's a bit tougher for
our level one, it'll beescalated.
We have some custom stuff forsome larger clients too, which
(28:48):
gets escalated.
So I think there's a lot thatcan be done in triage
communication, that kind ofstuff.
We then use it, of course, forall our client communication
internally to make sure that iscleaned up.
We also are in a bilingualmarket.
So we're from Montreal, sothere's French and English and
we kind of have a mix of theseclients and weirdly we have
(29:10):
employees who are morecomfortable in French and some
who are more comfortable inEnglish, so the AI can do this
auto-translation too, so itmakes it easier to respond to
clients in that sense.
So yeah, and I think there'sthe right mix of you don't want
to be a too early adopter andput too much time and effort
(29:31):
into it, but you don't want tobe left behind either.
So it's a really it's kind of a.
It's a bit of a tricky road tonavigate.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
It is.
I've heard a lot of smartpeople give very similar advice.
Just use it right, Use it inyour MSP, find places for it.
You've been a bit morestrategic.
You've found places where itgives immediate help right,
Whether it be on the servicedesk side or the end users.
But get comfortable with it.
You know, is there a servicearound it yet Maybe, maybe not,
(30:03):
but just get comfortable with it, Get used to it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, I think for us.
So continuous improvement isreally huge at S3.
And the idea is for me, anyways, it's small changes, often
quickly, and I'm really stricton this.
People like to scope, creepthings and I'm like, no, guys,
we're doing this smallimprovement, we're going to test
it, make sure it actually worksand it gets adoption, and then
(30:30):
we'll move on to the next thing.
So, whether it's AI or whateveryou're doing, I would recommend
not, you know, like what's agood example.
Sometimes, let's say, you'retalking about tweaking your
documentation or maybeautomating something, and right
away somebody will bring up ohwell, is our documentation
system the right one?
Maybe we should look at it.
(30:50):
I'm like guys, guys, guys, guys.
What is the problem we want tosolve here?
What is the smallestimprovement we can make?
That'll just bring us to thenext level and just do those as
often as possible and those willadd up.
I find if you try to dosomething that's too big, it
gets really complex.
You do a ton of work, youhaven't really tested to make
(31:11):
sure it works and, yeah, it justbecomes really hard to do,
whereas if you do these smallthings, very often it's
unbelievable when you look backhow much progress you've
actually made you mentionedsimple like GPT use cases around
employee handbooks.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, and like how do you introduce ideas like that
to clients?
You know this.
Hey, we can help you withsomething like your employee
handbook.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, totally.
So I think the first thing isfor AI is to use it internally,
see what works, and then see ohmy god, like employee handbook
is a super easy one, like customgpt, where you feed it a
handbook so that employees canobviously, um, just you know,
ask questions too and then youcan offer that to your clients.
Um, so that's that's kind ofhow we've always done things.
(32:01):
We love business, we love ourclients' business, we like
improving ours and we likeimproving our clients' business.
So for us it's like let'simprove our business and the
things that have worked for us,we kind of bring them to clients
.
That's great, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So you've described this cybersecurity gold rush
that we're in right now as alittle bit of a catch catch up,
right, and I think you even saidyou've warned MSPs not to lose
focus.
I've heard you say that acouple of times in some
different podcasts and differentsessions.
You've done and I think I evenquoted you no one's installing
(32:33):
computers to secure them, right.
I don't know, I don't know, buthow is S3 focused on?
You know, what are you guysfocused on right now?
For the now, for the immediateterm, and then for the future?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, so I say that, but cybersecurity, you know, I
don't want to say we don't focuson cybersecurity.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's one of our core values.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
It's actually cybersecurity and everything, so
super important, but and I'msaying this for ourselves we
definitely, I think, lost sighta little bit of where things
went.
So for us it's again it'smaking our clients have success.
We want to be part of thatsuccess.
We want to understand whatsuccess means to our clients and
(33:12):
what's our role in that, andmainly that's about how can we
make them.
Usually it's more productive,more efficient, those kinds of
things.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, I think and that's what I think is so neat
about your platform is beingable to position team members,
vcios roles in more strategicbusiness conversations.
It makes you such a stickierMSP for your partners, right
Like you're able to speak tothem at the business level.
This is how we can drive yourbusiness forward, grow your
(33:42):
business.
You become a different level ofvalue than just their IT
provider.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
So, yeah, so this is something we talk to MSPs about
in Propel, so I think QBRs.
So there's two kinds of contactsat your clients, right, there's
the people you sign thecontract with, which is normally
the management of the client,and then there's your kind of
your day-to-day contact, whichis typically an office manager
or an executive assistant,whoever it is that's going to
(34:08):
manage IT.
What happens to a lot of people,I think, is they lose that
relationship with the executivewho hired them and they become
sort of their primary point ofcontact becomes that day-to-day
contact at the client.
And so having that strategicconversation and not going into
what people do as a typical QBR,which is number of tickets they
(34:30):
had and response times and allthese things and, yeah, your
day-to-day contact might beinterested in this, but the
people who signed the contractanyway, in our experience they
don't really care.
What they want to know is thatyou're helping them get to where
they want to go.
So by having that meeting oncea year where you really, really
understand their needs and thenyou come back to them, present a
plan which addresses thoseneeds, will ensure that you
(34:53):
never lose that relationshipthat you have at the executive
level.
You're working at it every yearand that you are actually
providing what the client wantsfor their business to move
forward and not just closingtickets.
And yeah, you can show them abunch of stats on cybersecurity
and this kind of stuff, but forthem that's table stakes at this
point, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, very good.
So let's talk personal growthjust for a minute.
Simon, you've got twobusinesses and you've
cross-country skied on all sevencontinents.
Backcountry skied, backcountryskied.
How the heck did you have youdone that?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, two businesses is tough.
It's really really tough.
I think I don't know if myrecommendations for people to do
that I, you know, when westarted Propel your MSP, I don't
think I really thought aboutwhat will things look like if
this works, you know, um, soit's really hard and what's
difficult, I find, is just themind space they both use.
(35:51):
Like I'm sure all MSP ownersare always thinking about their
business the way I am, like whenthey're showering, when they're
doing whatever it is Um, soit's really hard to kind of
split your time on on both ofthese.
Yeah, so I do a lot of trailrunning and a bunch of back
country skiing, which I put alot of time into, but so, but
(36:11):
running is really one that I doa bunch of stuff at the same
time and it really helps me inthe business, which I know
sounds weird.
So I run to work every day.
So I commute while running.
While running, I listen toaudio books, which are, I
listened to, so many businessbooks I can't even tell you.
So I'm running, so I'm, you know, I'm working out training, I'm
commuting and I'm listening toaudio books and that adds up.
(36:34):
You know, I run to work.
It's probably like an hour anda half I do.
I run to and from work probablyan hour and a half I do.
I run two in front workProbably an hour and a half a
day.
You listen to audio books at1.5.
Like that adds up pretty quick.
Wow, yeah, it's impressive.
But it's been.
But for me it's actually funnyenough.
It's been, it's beenfundamental to grow the
businesses.
(36:54):
Because to grow the business,like you have to change right,
because your business haschanged.
Like we have a 100 people inour business today, I told you
we hit the wall at 50.
We didn't know what we weredoing.
The only way to get past thoseroadblocks is actually for you
to grow and to learn.
You know, and I know that, okay, we have 100 person, $20
million MSP today.
But to keep growing this thing,I need to learn and I need to
(37:17):
change.
So I need to learn and I needto change.
Great advice.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
All right, talk a little bit about the future.
What does the future look likefor S3?
Or at least what are youanticipating?
How are you planning?
And then same for Propel.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah.
So, like I said, for us there'sa huge refocus on productivity,
what we can do to just help ourclients on that side.
There's a bunch of simplethings that I think we were
guilty of.
The clients on that sidethere's a bunch of simple things
that I think we were guilty of.
The first is, for me, microsoft365.
Like, it's a huge platform.
There's so much that can bedone.
Clients, I think, do not use Idon't know how much of it.
(37:53):
I was going to say like 30,they use maybe 30% of it.
So there's basically showingthe clients, training them on
how to use it.
I think is huge and I think ifyou don't do it, you'll be left
behind because somebody will doit for your clients.
Um, and then ai.
So helping clients use ai, umis huge.
And then the other thing inproductivity, which is going to
(38:14):
sound really, really silly, buta bit of a refocus on the device
.
So I think in today's world,the device people use is so
important.
Like, if you're going to ask,like a typical user, at one of
your clients what's moreimportant to them Like a laptop
that's really fast and thatworks really well, or like
amazing service They'd probablysay you know what I want?
(38:36):
A really good computer and theservice can be.
So a bit of a refocus on are wemaking sure that every single
user is getting the right deviceand the right accessories.
So, a user that travels, maybea mobile screen so they can have
a two screen setup even whenwe're here at a conference right
, you're at a conference andthat you can work properly if
you sit down in your hotel room.
Good docking stations.
(38:57):
If you've got maybe an ownerthat has, um, obviously works
from home a bit, and maybe fromthe cottage, so just.
And then accessories likeheadsets.
So a refocus on, like I wassaying, every user is a client
and a focus on their devices,which is really basic.
But I think and we've beenguilty of it of maybe um of not
(39:17):
focusing on that enough, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
And then how about for Propel?
Obviously, you continue tobuild your client base, the MSPs
, the larger MSPs.
I heard you say you've goneback and obviously taken some of
the flexibility out of theplatform for the smaller MSPs
that need a bit more.
This is the way that it shouldbe done, but how do you
anticipate that evolving?
I assume AI is a piece of thatand more Totally, Maybe one last
(39:43):
thing.
I've got on the S3 side theother thing is automation at
clients too.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
It's just looking out for automation opportunities.
Propel yeah, no, it's not.
We definitely didn't take outany features of customizing.
It's still a platform that canbe massively customized.
It's maybe guiding them alittle more, doing a better job
at onboarding.
I think that's been reallyimportant, so we want to
(40:07):
continue to improve there.
The next thing for us is, orthat we want to continue.
So our platform we've built whatwe call Propel Live.
It's basically a webpresentation view that's this
interactive.
It's like an interactivepresentation that you're putting
together with your clients sothat when you're presenting the
roadmap, you're working with theclient to see what they're
(40:27):
interested in, what they're notinterested in, and the budget is
basically being done real time.
So it's participative.
So that's been really, reallypowerful.
What we want to do is giveaccess to the clients for that,
so that they have a portal.
Right now it's a presentationand you can send them kind of a
leave behind report, but givethem access to that and then
(40:51):
just some more tools that theclients can access in real time
as well.
But we have some cool I mean,in the short term, we have some
really cool features that arecoming out.
Or something I think that'ssuper important to all MSPs is
the stack and making sure thatyou're standardizing that stack
for all your clients.
So in Propel we've got thisstack module that we'll launch
in maybe two months and it kindof automatically detects the
(41:13):
stacks at your clients and givesyou a stack alignment score and
really kind of because we cando it now but this kind of puts
a focus on the stack in thepresentation.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
It's cool, awesome and for any of our listeners
that uh don't know about propeland want to learn more about
propel your msb.
Uh, how do they get moreinformation?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
yeah, propel your mspcom.
We do a ton of podcasts uhsorry, webinars so I think
that's a great way to check usout.
There's a lot of information onour website, but also, if
anybody's interested, justpropelyourmspcom and we're happy
to give you a demo, show youaround the product and then and
(41:55):
like I said, we've gotten a lotbetter at onboarding people so
then, making sure that we set itup so that you can test it with
a client and then, once you'vetested it with one client, we're
very confident you'll see thevalue and then you can sign up.
So there's no commitmentAwesome, simon.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
All right now for our favorite question that we like
to ask.
This is the Now that's itpodcast.
So, simon, I just want to askyou when did you know?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
now that's it.
Well, for me it's actually whenI started being really
strategic at S3 and getting outof the day-to-day operations and
really working on.
Like I said, when I work on aninitiative, it's for all clients
.
And, yeah, for me I was like,yep, this is it, this is what I
should be doing.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
That's a great one, man.
It was a real pleasure, simon,to have you on the podcast today
.
I thank you for your time,thank you for everything you've
done for the MSP industry andlook forward to staying in touch
with you.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's great.
One, two, three, four .
Because to grow the business,you have to change.
Right, Because your business ischanging.
We have 100 people in ourbusiness today.
I told you we hit the wall at50.
We didn't know what we weredoing.
The only way to get past thoseroadblocks is actually for you
to grow and to learn.
And I know that, OK, we have100 person, $20 million MSP
(00:22):
today.
But to keep growing this thing,I need to learn and I need to
change.
Welcome to Now.
That's.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It stories of MSP success, where we dive into the
journeys of some of thetrailblazers in our industry to
find out how they use theirpassion for technology to help
turn managed services into thethriving sector it is today.
Today's guest is the incrediblymulti-talented Simon Marcel,
co-founder of S3 Technologiesand creator of Propel your MSP,
(00:49):
a strategic planning platformbuilt by MSPs for MSPs.
Simon was one of the earlyadopters of the VCIO services,
turning internal innovation intoscalable tools, as his journey
started supporting clients whilestill in university, and since
then he's been navigating everymajor shift in the MSP landscape
(01:09):
.
Today, simon is helping shapewhat modern client engagement,
strategic alignment andAI-powered services can look
like for MSPs and end userseverywhere, all while running
and skiing across the globe.
Simon, welcome to the Nowthat's it podcast.
So excited to have you tellyour story today.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, thanks for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, it's great.
So, just like a lot of ourpartners that we've had, tell
our stories a lot of our guests,your computer and IT days
started pretty early on, right,and for you it wasn't just
tinkering, you had a realbusiness early on.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah.
So I guess I got my firstcomputer in high school and kind
of learned computer by myselfand also in our computer classes
.
And before university I starteda business with one of my
partners still a partner todayand that's how we got into it.
So I guess our first computerbusiness we were 18.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Wow, yeah, and you ran that for a number of years,
sort of through university,through school.
You finished school and youkind of think to yourself you're
not getting what you wantnecessarily out of the existing
business.
So you say, hey, I've done thisbefore, I can do it again.
Let me start something new.
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it's not, it's not exactly that.
So we had started a businessthe summer before university and
it actually worked, which wassurprising for us at the time.
And we started at first.
It was, you know, like I said,we were 18 years old, so it was
a lot of family friends.
We started at first.
It was, you know, like I said,we were 18 years old, so it was
a lot of family friends, thatkind of thing and some small
businesses started being clients.
(02:49):
And then, as university started,we were starting computer
engineering and we realized thatwe wouldn't have enough time to
take care of our clientsproperly.
So through a contact we knewsomebody who had basically a VAR
who sold a lot of hardware tosmall and medium-sized
businesses and we were able totransfer our clients to him, or
to that business, I should say.
And we worked there part-timethrough university and while
(03:11):
working there this was in thetime of it was like 1998, 1999.
So there was the year 2000 orY2K bug coming, so people are
changing their computers likecrazy and basically the price of
hardware was going down.
So working there I kind ofrealized that it was crazy that
(03:31):
all they were doing is reallyselling hardware and almost
giving the service away.
And I remember going to see myboss at the time and saying
every time I go because I wasdoing installation.
I was doing everythinginstallations, that kind of
thing.
So I was like, every time I gosee a client, their backups are
screwed up, everything's a mess.
Why don't we sell them somekind of proactive maintenance
plan?
And he at the time said, yeah,but he was a VAR guy, he was a
(03:55):
smart guy for sure.
But he was like, yeah, if youwant to do it, try it out.
So I was like, okay.
So I kind of built the program,sold it to clients and it
worked and the clients wereexcited.
So to me it was clear that theway forward was definitely on
the service side and toaccompany these businesses that
didn't have IT people internally.
(04:15):
So when we finished university,the vision was already set and
it was like we are starting aservice business IT consulting
which at the time managedservices, or at least we had
never heard that term before.
So we really started a managedservice business in 2003.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And that was the beginning of S3?
.
That was the beginning of S3.
And so talk a little bit aboutwho were your customers at that
point in time, early on, andwhat sort of problems were you
solving in the early days?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, so our customers we weren't very picky,
I'll be honest.
We were really lucky.
So what we did is we went tosee some VARs who were selling
hardware but who couldn'tinstall it or maintain this
stuff properly.
So we were subcontracted quitea bit and we were lucky because
one of the bigger ones ended upwell, they closed.
I don't know if they wentbankrupt, I don't know exactly
(05:03):
what happened, but they were outof business.
So we ended up well, theyclosed.
I don't know if they wentbankrupt, I don't know exactly
what happened, but they were outof business.
So we ended up with all thoseclients that were our clients,
that really, really helped usout.
Sometimes you need to get lucky.
The kind of problems we weresolving for clients initially
was just stuff was not stable.
As you know, right, inbusinesses people were running
Windows 98.
There was Windows NT.
At the time I remember we metlike a law firm who had had
(05:28):
their exchange server be downfor almost two weeks, you know.
But we had met them and uh, Iguess this happened a couple
months before and we were 23 or24 at that time and you know,
they signed up as a client.
Now I think of that.
I'm like that's insane today,if you had a sizable law firm,
they were maybe 50 users, butthey had so much pain with stuff
(05:48):
being unstable.
Like I said, their exchangeserver had been down for two
weeks in the past.
So really I think in thoseyears like 2003 to 2006, maybe
even 2007,.
it was really all about makingsure there was no downtime yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
You talk about not being picky.
I remember in my early MSP daysyou said yes before you
realized if you could deliverthe service or not.
How often was that sort offiguring it out in the early
days?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh man Novell, oh, yeah, sure, We've got a guy yeah
, our attitude was, if it can bedone, we'll figure it out.
So basically we would.
So we would search online like,can this be done?
Whatever it was?
And then, if it could be done,we're like, yeah, we'll figure
it out.
We've changed our ways in amassive way today.
(06:36):
Sometimes I think we're alittle too corporate.
I'm exaggerating, but that'sthe entrepreneur in me.
But yeah, it's funny how itreally really helps you in the
beginning to do that sort of, tobe ambitious and kind of take
on these challenges.
But as the business grows andgets bigger, you have to uh, you
know, stay focused on on whatyou do.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's something that you learned out, not
necessarily the hard way, butover the time as you grow.
You have to be in order toscale.
You've got to be a little bit.
You've got to be much morestandard and a bit more strict
and you have to redefine yourICP right your who, your clients
are.
So talk a little bit about whatS3, you know, those early days
you were sort of saying yes toeverything.
How long did it take before youstarted to say we really are
(07:20):
just looking for this type ofindustry or this type of client.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
What are just looking for this type of industry or
this type of client.
What was that like?
What was that maturation like?
So we grew the business prettyquick.
I think when we got to about 50employees we really hit a wall.
We were pretty young and Idon't know that we really knew
what we were doing in business.
Actually, I know we didn't knowwhat we were doing and, yeah,
that was a hard point for us toget through.
So I think once we got there iswhen we really started reading
books and looking atmethodologies to run our
(07:54):
business, like we use EOS.
But back then we had readRockefeller Habits and I think
that's something we had sort ofimplemented and started really
thinking about okay, what areour services, who are we
offering them to?
And just having a structure.
But it definitely I want to sayprobably 2009-ish, so a good
(08:14):
five to six years of us kind ofhustling.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I see MSPs, it's hard to say no to revenue,
right.
I mean for a while, when you'regrowing, anything coming in the
door is great, right, thathelps your top line.
But as you get to that 50 mark,you start to say not all
revenue is good revenue, right.
And so you guys in your brainhad to say we want to do
(08:40):
something special here,something in these four walls.
Yes, there's exceptions, but inorder for us to continue to
grow this, we have to scale it acertain way.
So I think that's really,really important.
Talk a little bit about yoursales team.
Did you have a sales team?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
We did not have a sales team.
We still do not have a salesteam, which makes us a bit of an
anomaly.
So we have a $20 million MSP,which is organic.
So we haven't done anyacquisitions yet.
We would love to do it.
It's fantastic, thanks.
We have half a salespersonwhich is one of my partners.
I say that because he managesour account managers.
(09:22):
At some point he was doing itfull time.
So we have one or half asalesperson, so it's really
important for us to have reallylow churn.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, that's kind of the trick, which is a great lead
in.
You focused so much onretention.
Why is that equal growth?
Why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So as an MSP, I mean there's really I guess there's
three numbers right there's yoursales, your new clients,
there's your churn and thenthere's how much you're raising
your clients.
Those are the three numbers youcan focus on.
Sales is definitely the hardestone to go get new clients and
then for us, churn is kind ofsort of the low hanging fruit.
(10:05):
One to go out and to make sureit's as small as possible, but
it's also in line with ourphilosophy.
For us, what's really importantis to bring value to our
clients and to feel that it'skind of silly.
But I think the thing that we Isay we like myself and my
partners enjoy the most is whena client just thanks us and it's
like hey guys, you know, we hada client recently when we
(10:26):
started with them and they wereabout I think they were a
hundred or 115, and they'vealmost tripled their business.
They're like 300.
And they were like we justreally want to thank you, guys.
We could not have done thiswithout you, and that means
everything to us and it's kindof why we got in business to
help people.
All that to say that reducingthe churn is also in line with
what we want to do, so that'sreally why we attack that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's amazing.
So follow up on this.
You were very invested in whatI would consider high sort of
time intensive, cost, heavythings like road mapping out,
three year plans, things likethat for your customers.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Why was that so important?
(11:57):
At whatever stage that happened, we how did that start?
I'm trying to think.
So we started that quite early.
I was the one who started itmyself and it was just.
Yeah, I was just thinking about.
I don't remember if it actuallycame from a client the first
time we did it, but it justseemed natural.
I'm guessing it probably camefrom a client who want to know a
little like, give us a budgetand um, but it happened
(12:17):
organically and really quick,like we were a small company,
cause I was doing it for all ofour clients and pretty quick we
got into.
You know, we would onboard aclient and get back to them with
a three-year pretty detailedplan in terms of the projects
that were coming and also theirbudget, and it's something that
our clients loved and it wasdefinitely a differentiator at
(12:39):
the time and I still think todaythere's a lot of room to do
that properly.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, talk a little bit about what one of those
engagements looks like and againwe'll get to the sort of VCIO
service that you have as well.
But what types of questions areyou asking and answering, and
what does success look like inone of those engagements?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
We like to have what we call a strategic alignment
session with our clients.
So once a year and wedefinitely do this at the
beginning of the engagement withthe client we will have a
session with them where we'rejust asking them the questions,
typically about their business,and we're taking notes and
that's it.
We want to basically speak likeI don't know 3% of the time.
(13:22):
The rest of the time we're justtaking notes.
So the questions are open-endedand we'll ask where are you
going for your business?
What is it?
What are the next three years,five years, look like for you?
What are your biggestchallenges?
We'll dig into are there somedepartments you're looking to
grow, some services you'relooking to add?
What kind of clients you'regoing after?
And then we'll touch IT and seeis IT working?
(13:47):
Where are the challenges there?
And then we will actually askthem what does success look like
for you in a year from now?
And that, I think, is a superimportant question for MSPs to
ask all their clients.
Because basically you'retelling the client hey, in a
year from now, tell me what itis that you're going to be super
stoked about us.
And then they will tell you,and then you about us, and then
(14:09):
you know, and they will tell you, and then you do that and you
just cycle that every year and Imean that's been the key for to
our retention basically that'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Starts to make sense why you don't necessarily need a
sales team when you're havingthose sort of strategic
conversations with your clientsright, yeah, I mean you could.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yes, as long as your retention, your retention is
high or churn is low, you don'tneed a huge sales team unless
you really really want to growquick.
But we were never about highgrowth, I think we struggled to.
There were some periods whereyou had a little bit of faster
growth, but 15% growth is kindof just perfect for us.
(14:45):
Faster than that it almostfeels like the wheels are
starting to not fall off, butjust you know.
So yeah, it works for us, butthe key is really the retention.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Thank you, guys.
We talked a little bit ahead oftime.
I think your net profit is veryhigh as well, and when that
number starts to get reallylarge, that's when it starts to
feel like the wheels might falloff.
And so you've done things veryefficiently, even with the staff
that you had, and so now it'sabout when do we hire, or how do
we hire versus how many moreclients do we take on?
(15:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, early on.
It's funny when you weretalking at the beginning and I
was telling you we hit the wallat about 50 people.
We also hit the wall ofprofitability, where at some
point if you have clients thatyou're not making money on, you
can't outsell that problem.
You have to go back and eithermake those clients profitable or
move on.
It's not going to work.
(15:39):
So that's a lesson we learnedtoo at that moment and kind of
went back and cleaned up thoseskeletons in our closet.
That's great, and it's reallysomething that stuck to me.
It's like if you haveunprofitable clients, you will
never outsell that problem.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
One of the best pieces of advice that I think
anybody gave us was you know,look at the profitability of
every single one of your clients, measure that on a month to
month basis, understand whythings went up or why they went
down, and if they continue to godown consistently, then it's
time to have that conversationwith the client.
Absolutely, yeah, we, we trackthat?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, we.
We track that on a monthlybasis for every single client
and, of course, we look fortrends, right, you're not.
You know, every client willhave some difficult periods.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So something really interesting that you shared with
us, stephen with Stephen and Iahead of time, simon was you
mentioned the importance ofengaging every single user at a
client organization.
How do you offer such a whiteglove service and also scale
that?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think it's a mindset and it's not one.
It's something we've comeacross, I'm going to say,
recently, relatively recently.
It's been years now.
I think MSPs and we were guiltyof this will often think about
their client as their point ofcontacts at the client and we
decided to what if we think ofevery single user as a client,
and what does that user'sjourney look like with us?
(17:00):
And really the goal is, if youdo a good job with every single
users, these users move aroundand again, this all comes down
to us not having manysalespeople.
These users move around and youget referrals and you can get
referrals from any single userat a client.
But I would challenge MSPs tothink about how many of these
users actually know who you areand understand your services and
(17:23):
do you have a relationship withthem.
So when we started the businessand up until I want to say
maybe five years ago likeonboarding a new user wasn't
something we did we thought,well, that's our client's job,
they have a new employee, theyshould onboard them, tell them
this is how you reach S3, and soon.
So we had some clients who dida great job at that and some
(17:45):
clients who didn't do such agreat job at that, so we decided
to basically take over thatprocess.
So when a new user starts at aclient, we have an onboarding
for that new user.
It's mostly digital, dependingon the user, but we want to have
points of contact with theseusers, so welcoming them,
explaining to them basicallywhat we do, how they can reach
(18:07):
us, and then some tips in termsof the tools we're using.
Basically, give them sometraining and then keep in touch
with them.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's great.
So you're doing this reallygreat thing, this VCIO role,
your strategic planning.
You're having theseconversations, but you identify
a pretty apparent gap, right.
It was hard to scale thiswithout automating it in some
fashion, right?
And so you saw an opportunity.
And what happened?
How did these meetings withyour customers turn into this
(18:38):
VCIO offering that you'redelivering to other MSPs now?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things in this
actually, and this is somethingwe help MSPs with.
So a lot of people have a hardtime scaling the VCIO services
they offer for a number ofreasons.
The first one is normally it'sowner-led.
In our case, I was the onedoing it at first and a lot of
people struggle to find goodVCIOs and for us what really
(19:05):
made this thing scalable is whenwe split the role of VCIO and
account manager.
Typically in a lot of MSPsyou'll have a VCIO, which is
basically an account manager, aVCIO and a project manager all
in one, and those skill sets arevery, very different.
So a VCIO for us is somebodythat's very technical, creative,
(19:30):
that can really explaintechnical concepts to clients,
and an account manager issomebody, on the other hand,
that's very organized, nothingslips through the cracks, the
follow-ups, and who's also thereto have the tougher
conversations.
So your VCIO is that trustedadvisor.
But it's a funny role whenyou're the trusted advisor but
also getting into like disputesbut conversations over billing,
(19:52):
that kind of thing.
So splitting that role made itreally a lot easier to go and
find good VCIOs and good accountmanagers and to stop looking
for a unicorn.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing after that isyeah is how much time it took to
actually build these roadmaps,and so we started automating the
(20:13):
process and that's how westarted Propel your MSP.
So a good friend of mine,Dominic we did computer
engineering together and he hadjust exited a SaaS company that
he had started, so it felt likethe perfect time to start Propel
your MSP to, basically.
But at first it was let's startthis thing.
We know it's really going tohelp us and, of course, it'll
(20:34):
help other MSPs, and it was theonly way we could build a
software like this.
It would be too expensive tobuild just for S3.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, so you build this software platform.
Talk about some of the earlyMSPs, or your early customers.
How different did they lookthan maybe your early customers
in your S3 days?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You're talking about MSPs using Propeller.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
MSP yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, well, there was a mix.
So we were a larger MSP, so wereally built a platform
originally for larger MSPs.
I'm not saying we built it forlarge MSPs, but we had thought
about a lot of the details thatare important for when you're a
(21:20):
large MSP and when you have somelarger clients.
So a lot of our clients wereactually larger MSPs at first.
So that for us made a lot ofsense because we knew that
business really well.
It was more for the sort of thegrowing MSPs that maybe our
platform was maybe toocustomizable, you know, and we
(21:41):
realized that a lot of MSPs wantto be a little more guided in
terms of hey, how do we scalethese VCIO services?
What do the processes look like?
Those things Awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So talk about how S3 has evolved since Propel has
become a product, and then howhave each business helped each
other grow?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
S3 has definitely evolved in a massive way.
It's probably helped, maybe,that I am sort of spending a lot
of time in Propel.
It's actually helped me delegatea lot more.
So that's been really reallygood and it's helped me only
focus on the strategic part ofS3.
So for me, that's who areclients, what are the services
(22:25):
we're providing to them?
So S3 recently I think we'vedone a really really good job at
improving a lot of ourefficiencies, so, like our
internal processes also ofrefocusing on our clients' needs
.
I would say and by that I meanI think we've had I mean
(22:50):
everybody's been hit with calledthe tsunami of cybersecurity,
and it's something that we'vealways been really good at
cybersecurity.
We have a cybersecurity team,but I think that maybe I don't
want to say we over-focused onit, because it's super important
and it always will be, but I dothink the basic, like the
reason our clients havecomputers, is to make themselves
more productive, more efficient.
(23:10):
It's not to secure them right.
So I think MSPs maybe have losta little bit.
They've lost sight of this alittle bit and I think so we've
had to refocus on bringing ourclients basically productivity,
efficiency, while still focusingon cybersecurity.
I think is super important Interms of Propel, while having S3
(23:30):
, like for me, I'm in the game,like I'm in the MSP game.
I've been doing it now for 23years.
We wouldn't be able to propelthe way we build it without
having that exposure, so it'sdefinitely helped propel a lot.
And then for me it'sinteresting to meet other MSPs
too and see how they're doingthings.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But we've always sort of been in we're in a peer
group called TPGpg, so we'vealways interacted a lot with
msps so it's kind of acontinuation of that I hear a
lot of msps say like joining apeer group early on was a big
game changer, right the minutethat you, you sort of know what
you know.
But the minute you get into agroup with other msps that feel
comfortable enough sharing, well, this is where our pricing's at
(24:13):
.
This is how we do things.
These are the mistakes thatwe've made.
You can really change your MSP.
You feel the same thing aboutTPG A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It was game changing and I don't use that lightly.
And a big shout out to GaryPica, who hooked us up with TPG
and we actually I think we endedup taking his role because as
he exited his company he was inTPG and then obviously he
started True Methods.
But we met him and he referredus to them because he was I
think he was surprised at thetime by how large of an MSP we
(24:45):
had, without kind of knowingwhat we were doing.
We'd kind of done this on ourown and we're Canadian from
Quebec, isolated and he was likeokay, I think I've got the
right peer group for you.
And he hooked us up with TPGand it was mind-blowing, really
good.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So back to the question before.
So you stepped away from notstepped away, but you refocused
on Propel versus S3.
It allowed S3 to sort of grow.
So for MSP owners out there,you either go and start your own
business or maybe spend alittle bit more time focusing on
the business right, being a bitmore strategic than having your
(25:23):
hands in.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, I think it depends on your strengths.
But for me in S3 now, you know,when they talk about working in
the business versus working onthe business, and there's a lot
of talk about that, and I thinkfor a long time I was kind of
like, yeah, come on, you need todo some work.
But now I've kind of embracedthis a lot more and everything I
do at S3 is I'm not working onone client, I'm working on all
(25:50):
our clients at a time, so I'mreally working on projects or
things we're putting in place.
That impacts all our clientsand that has helped S3
tremendously and it's alsosomething I really, really enjoy
doing, instead of being in theminutia of one client.
I don't know if that makessense.
And then I realized that that'sreally what it is when you work
on the business and I thinkit's important and I was having
(26:13):
this conversation actually withmy partners just a couple of
days ago.
We are becoming a bit of aproduct company at S3, in the
sense that our manage, like youknow, we've been in this for 23
years.
At the time we were always justwe consider ourselves a service
company and now, like ourmanaged service is a product
we're delivering to our clientsand we need to have a roadmap on
(26:33):
how we're improving this.
What are the tweaks we're doingand what's our long-term vision
?
And we're starting to have moreand more people working on,
like I said, efficiencies, butalso the roadmap of our managed
services, what they're going tolook like Do you have a product
manager or someone that sort ofoversees the direction of the
managed services business?
(26:55):
under S3?
Yeah, so we have a team nowthat does that.
I think I'm the product manager.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Or at least the decider.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
We've got somebody who does more of the detail
planning, but that's notsomething we used to have.
But there's so many things.
Now We've integrated a bunch ofautomation, obviously AI, chat,
support, all these things,portal and all these automations
and it's kind of like, okay, wereally need a roadmap.
We have so many initiatives andit's you know where are we
(27:27):
heading in those.
So we're becoming.
It's funny and Propel, in a way, has helped that, because in
Propel, we are a product company.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So, yeah, that's great.
All right, speaking of sort ofbetter client relationship and
retention, this is the section Ilike to call advice, because I
think you've you're prettyunique in the industry, simon,
where you've been around for along time.
You've you've built your ownMSP to a level that most MSPs
don't get to, but you've alsogone out and created this, this
amazing product.
(27:53):
On the side, let's talk alittle bit about AI.
How do you see AI, what role doyou see AI playing for MSPs
going forward?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I think everybody needs to embrace it and if not,
you will be sort of left behind.
We've done a lot of itourselves, but I think there's
some products now that arepopping up that can do a lot of
it.
So we use AI to do a lot ofsort of repetitive.
It's a mix of automation and AI, but I'll give you a couple
examples.
So for us, every ticket thatcomes in, basically AI will
(28:27):
auto-categorize it, assign apriority reply to the client,
possibly ask for moreinformation.
We have auto-escalation.
So if it sees that, oh, it's acybersecurity issue, it will be
escalated to our cybersecurityteam.
If it judges, oh, this is anissue that's a bit tougher for
our level one, it'll beescalated.
We have some custom stuff forsome larger clients too, which
(28:48):
gets escalated.
So I think there's a lot thatcan be done in triage
communication, that kind ofstuff.
We then use it, of course, forall our client communication
internally to make sure that iscleaned up.
We also are in a bilingualmarket.
So we're from Montreal, sothere's French and English and
we kind of have a mix of theseclients and weirdly we have
(29:10):
employees who are morecomfortable in French and some
who are more comfortable inEnglish, so the AI can do this
auto-translation too, so itmakes it easier to respond to
clients in that sense.
So yeah, and I think there'sthe right mix of you don't want
to be a too early adopter andput too much time and effort
(29:31):
into it, but you don't want tobe left behind either.
So it's a really it's kind of a.
It's a bit of a tricky road tonavigate.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
It is.
I've heard a lot of smartpeople give very similar advice.
Just use it right, Use it inyour MSP, find places for it.
You've been a bit morestrategic.
You've found places where itgives immediate help right,
Whether it be on the servicedesk side or the end users.
But get comfortable with it.
You know, is there a servicearound it yet Maybe, maybe not,
(30:03):
but just get comfortable with it, Get used to it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, I think for us.
So continuous improvement isreally huge at S3.
And the idea is for me, anyways, it's small changes, often
quickly, and I'm really stricton this.
People like to scope, creepthings and I'm like, no, guys,
we're doing this smallimprovement, we're going to test
it, make sure it actually worksand it gets adoption, and then
(30:30):
we'll move on to the next thing.
So, whether it's AI or whateveryou're doing, I would recommend
not, you know, like what's agood example.
Sometimes, let's say, you'retalking about tweaking your
documentation or maybeautomating something, and right
away somebody will bring up ohwell, is our documentation
system the right one?
Maybe we should look at it.
(30:50):
I'm like guys, guys, guys, guys.
What is the problem we want tosolve here?
What is the smallestimprovement we can make?
That'll just bring us to thenext level and just do those as
often as possible and those willadd up.
I find if you try to dosomething that's too big, it
gets really complex.
You do a ton of work, youhaven't really tested to make
(31:11):
sure it works and, yeah, it justbecomes really hard to do,
whereas if you do these smallthings, very often it's
unbelievable when you look backhow much progress you've
actually made you mentionedsimple like GPT use cases around
employee handbooks.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, and like how do you introduce ideas like that
to clients?
You know this.
Hey, we can help you withsomething like your employee
handbook.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, totally.
So I think the first thing isfor AI is to use it internally,
see what works, and then see ohmy god, like employee handbook
is a super easy one, like customgpt, where you feed it a
handbook so that employees canobviously, um, just you know,
ask questions too and then youcan offer that to your clients.
Um, so that's that's kind ofhow we've always done things.
(32:01):
We love business, we love ourclients' business, we like
improving ours and we likeimproving our clients' business.
So for us it's like let'simprove our business and the
things that have worked for us,we kind of bring them to clients
.
That's great, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So you've described this cybersecurity gold rush
that we're in right now as alittle bit of a catch catch up,
right, and I think you even saidyou've warned MSPs not to lose
focus.
I've heard you say that acouple of times in some
different podcasts and differentsessions.
You've done and I think I evenquoted you no one's installing
(32:33):
computers to secure them, right.
I don't know, I don't know, buthow is S3 focused on?
You know, what are you guysfocused on right now?
For the now, for the immediateterm, and then for the future?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, so I say that, but cybersecurity, you know, I
don't want to say we don't focuson cybersecurity.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's one of our core values.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
It's actually cybersecurity and everything, so
super important, but and I'msaying this for ourselves we
definitely, I think, lost sighta little bit of where things
went.
So for us it's again it'smaking our clients have success.
We want to be part of thatsuccess.
We want to understand whatsuccess means to our clients and
(33:12):
what's our role in that, andmainly that's about how can we
make them.
Usually it's more productive,more efficient, those kinds of
things.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, I think and that's what I think is so neat
about your platform is beingable to position team members,
vcios roles in more strategicbusiness conversations.
It makes you such a stickierMSP for your partners, right
Like you're able to speak tothem at the business level.
This is how we can drive yourbusiness forward, grow your
(33:42):
business.
You become a different level ofvalue than just their IT
provider.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
So, yeah, so this is something we talk to MSPs about
in Propel, so I think QBRs.
So there's two kinds of contactsat your clients, right, there's
the people you sign thecontract with, which is normally
the management of the client,and then there's your kind of
your day-to-day contact, whichis typically an office manager
or an executive assistant,whoever it is that's going to
(34:08):
manage IT.
What happens to a lot of people,I think, is they lose that
relationship with the executivewho hired them and they become
sort of their primary point ofcontact becomes that day-to-day
contact at the client.
And so having that strategicconversation and not going into
what people do as a typical QBR,which is number of tickets they
(34:30):
had and response times and allthese things and, yeah, your
day-to-day contact might beinterested in this, but the
people who signed the contractanyway, in our experience they
don't really care.
What they want to know is thatyou're helping them get to where
they want to go.
So by having that meeting oncea year where you really, really
understand their needs and thenyou come back to them, present a
plan which addresses thoseneeds, will ensure that you
(34:53):
never lose that relationshipthat you have at the executive
level.
You're working at it every yearand that you are actually
providing what the client wantsfor their business to move
forward and not just closingtickets.
And yeah, you can show them abunch of stats on cybersecurity
and this kind of stuff, but forthem that's table stakes at this
point, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, very good.
So let's talk personal growthjust for a minute.
Simon, you've got twobusinesses and you've
cross-country skied on all sevencontinents.
Backcountry skied, backcountryskied.
How the heck did you have youdone that?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, two businesses is tough.
It's really really tough.
I think I don't know if myrecommendations for people to do
that I, you know, when westarted Propel your MSP, I don't
think I really thought aboutwhat will things look like if
this works, you know, um, soit's really hard and what's
difficult, I find, is just themind space they both use.
(35:51):
Like I'm sure all MSP ownersare always thinking about their
business the way I am, like whenthey're showering, when they're
doing whatever it is Um, soit's really hard to kind of
split your time on on both ofthese.
Yeah, so I do a lot of trailrunning and a bunch of back
country skiing, which I put alot of time into, but so, but
(36:11):
running is really one that I doa bunch of stuff at the same
time and it really helps me inthe business, which I know
sounds weird.
So I run to work every day.
So I commute while running.
While running, I listen toaudio books, which are, I
listened to, so many businessbooks I can't even tell you.
So I'm running, so I'm, you know, I'm working out training, I'm
commuting and I'm listening toaudio books and that adds up.
(36:34):
You know, I run to work.
It's probably like an hour anda half I do.
I run to and from work probablyan hour and a half I do.
I run two in front workProbably an hour and a half a
day.
You listen to audio books at1.5.
Like that adds up pretty quick.
Wow, yeah, it's impressive.
But it's been.
But for me it's actually funnyenough.
It's been, it's beenfundamental to grow the
businesses.
(36:54):
Because to grow the business,like you have to change right,
because your business haschanged.
Like we have a 100 people inour business today, I told you
we hit the wall at 50.
We didn't know what we weredoing.
The only way to get past thoseroadblocks is actually for you
to grow and to learn.
You know, and I know that, okay, we have 100 person, $20
million MSP today.
But to keep growing this thing,I need to learn and I need to
(37:17):
change.
So I need to learn and I needto change.
Great advice.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
All right, talk a little bit about the future.
What does the future look likefor S3?
Or at least what are youanticipating?
How are you planning?
And then same for Propel.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah.
So, like I said, for us there'sa huge refocus on productivity,
what we can do to just help ourclients on that side.
There's a bunch of simplethings that I think we were
guilty of.
The clients on that sidethere's a bunch of simple things
that I think we were guilty of.
The first is, for me, microsoft365.
Like, it's a huge platform.
There's so much that can bedone.
Clients, I think, do not use Idon't know how much of it.
(37:53):
I was going to say like 30,they use maybe 30% of it.
So there's basically showingthe clients, training them on
how to use it.
I think is huge and I think ifyou don't do it, you'll be left
behind because somebody will doit for your clients.
Um, and then ai.
So helping clients use ai, umis huge.
And then the other thing inproductivity, which is going to
(38:14):
sound really, really silly, buta bit of a refocus on the device
.
So I think in today's world,the device people use is so
important.
Like, if you're going to ask,like a typical user, at one of
your clients what's moreimportant to them Like a laptop
that's really fast and thatworks really well, or like
amazing service They'd probablysay you know what I want?
(38:36):
A really good computer and theservice can be.
So a bit of a refocus on are wemaking sure that every single
user is getting the right deviceand the right accessories.
So, a user that travels, maybea mobile screen so they can have
a two screen setup even whenwe're here at a conference right
, you're at a conference andthat you can work properly if
you sit down in your hotel room.
Good docking stations.
(38:57):
If you've got maybe an ownerthat has, um, obviously works
from home a bit, and maybe fromthe cottage, so just.
And then accessories likeheadsets.
So a refocus on, like I wassaying, every user is a client
and a focus on their devices,which is really basic.
But I think and we've beenguilty of it of maybe um of not
(39:17):
focusing on that enough, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
And then how about for Propel?
Obviously, you continue tobuild your client base, the MSPs
, the larger MSPs.
I heard you say you've goneback and obviously taken some of
the flexibility out of theplatform for the smaller MSPs
that need a bit more.
This is the way that it shouldbe done, but how do you
anticipate that evolving?
I assume AI is a piece of thatand more Totally, Maybe one last
(39:43):
thing.
I've got on the S3 side theother thing is automation at
clients too.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
It's just looking out for automation opportunities.
Propel yeah, no, it's not.
We definitely didn't take outany features of customizing.
It's still a platform that canbe massively customized.
It's maybe guiding them alittle more, doing a better job
at onboarding.
I think that's been reallyimportant, so we want to
(40:07):
continue to improve there.
The next thing for us is, orthat we want to continue.
So our platform we've built whatwe call Propel Live.
It's basically a webpresentation view that's this
interactive.
It's like an interactivepresentation that you're putting
together with your clients sothat when you're presenting the
roadmap, you're working with theclient to see what they're
(40:27):
interested in, what they're notinterested in, and the budget is
basically being done real time.
So it's participative.
So that's been really, reallypowerful.
What we want to do is giveaccess to the clients for that,
so that they have a portal.
Right now it's a presentationand you can send them kind of a
leave behind report, but givethem access to that and then
(40:51):
just some more tools that theclients can access in real time
as well.
But we have some cool I mean,in the short term, we have some
really cool features that arecoming out.
Or something I think that'ssuper important to all MSPs is
the stack and making sure thatyou're standardizing that stack
for all your clients.
So in Propel we've got thisstack module that we'll launch
in maybe two months and it kindof automatically detects the
(41:13):
stacks at your clients and givesyou a stack alignment score and
really kind of because we cando it now but this kind of puts
a focus on the stack in thepresentation.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
It's cool, awesome and for any of our listeners
that uh don't know about propeland want to learn more about
propel your msb.
Uh, how do they get moreinformation?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
yeah, propel your mspcom.
We do a ton of podcasts uhsorry, webinars so I think
that's a great way to check usout.
There's a lot of information onour website, but also, if
anybody's interested, justpropelyourmspcom and we're happy
to give you a demo, show youaround the product and then and
(41:55):
like I said, we've gotten a lotbetter at onboarding people so
then, making sure that we set itup so that you can test it with
a client and then, once you'vetested it with one client, we're
very confident you'll see thevalue and then you can sign up.
So there's no commitmentAwesome, simon.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
All right now for our favorite question that we like
to ask.
This is the Now that's itpodcast.
So, simon, I just want to askyou when did you know?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
now that's it.
Well, for me it's actually whenI started being really
strategic at S3 and getting outof the day-to-day operations and
really working on.
Like I said, when I work on aninitiative, it's for all clients
.
And, yeah, for me I was like,yep, this is it, this is what I
should be doing.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
That's a great one, man.
It was a real pleasure, simon,to have you on the podcast today
.
I thank you for your time,thank you for everything you've
done for the MSP industry andlook forward to staying in touch
with you.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's great.
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