November 20, 2025 • 59 mins
Oz isn’t just emerald and glitter; it’s a lesson in how stories get made and weaponized. We jump from Gregory Maguire’s Wicked to the Broadway phenomenon and the record-breaking film to unpack how a green-skinned girl became a political problem, a best friend, and a cultural icon. Along the way, we contrast the novel’s darker theology and politics with the musical’s friendship-forward heart and the movie’s big-screen mythmaking, asking what each version chooses to spotlight—and why.
We dig into the performances that make the film crackle: Jeff Goldblum’s attention-hoarding Wizard, Michelle Yeoh’s velvet-gloved operator as Madame Morrible, and Cynthia Erivo’s fierce, aching Elphaba who refuses to be managed. Peter Dinklage’s Dr. Dillamond turns prejudice into a gut punch, while Glinda’s arc reveals how image and approval can be tools of control.
Beyond the screen, we step through Universal’s Wicked Experience in Orlando—costumes, set pieces, and a guided path from Shiz to Emerald City—proof that modern fandom doesn’t end with credits. Then we broaden the lens: why monster stories surge in a perfection-obsessed era, how propaganda reframes dissent as danger, and what it costs to speak when silence is safer. We’re saving the “is it a kissing story” verdict for the sequel, but the first film already hits where it counts: who gets to define good, and will your friends still stand close when the posters call you wicked?
Tell us: book, musical, or movie—who nailed Oz for you? Subscribe, rate, and share to bring more listeners into the Emerald City conversation.
News and Links
- LitJoy preorders for The Prisoner’s Throne by Holly Black (Link)
- Cover for Adversary to the Villain by Hannah Nicole Maeher (Instagram Link)
- Cover for World’s Okayest Oracle (Reluctantly) Seeks Demon by Olivia Dade (Instagram Link)
- Author LJ Andrews has suffered a fire. Donation Link & Instagram Link
- BK Borsion’s sequel to Good Spirits (Ghosted series) will be called Grim Tidings (Instagram Link)
- Ali Hazelwood released an audio first foray into the realm of dark academia on Spotify (Link)
- Vogue Australia article on Monster Romance (Link to article)
- Hannah F Whitten is releasing a new book in 2026, Reliquary (Instagram Link)
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Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mari (00:00):
Views expressed in the podcast are solely those of the
citizens.
The hosts make no claims to beliterary expressed, and their
opinions are exactly thoseopinions.
All reads of works discussed orviews are the intellectual
properties of creators of theirstories and the views under the
fair use doctrine.
Kelly (00:34):
Hey everyone, it's Kelly.
We also have Ashley.
Ashley (00:37):
Hey guys, it's Ashley.
We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan (00:40):
It's the most wonderful time.
What's good, everybody?
Mari (00:45):
Yes.
Oh no.
Jonathan (00:51):
For those who don't understand that reference,
that's a that's what's it?
It's the Holiday Spectacular?
The Grinch Grinch.
Yes.
Mari (01:00):
It's just called the Grinch Show, or what is it?
Kelly (01:02):
Is it the Hooliday Spectacular?
Mari (01:04):
Okay.
At Universal, yeah.
It's from that.
Very, very niche.
And yet it ties in to some ofthe stuff we're gonna have to be
talking about today.
So we're gonna be discussingWicked the Movie, based on the
book by Gregory McGuire.
But first, as always, somenews, lots of news today.
So much news.
(01:26):
So much news.
And I'm sure I've stillforgotten stuff.
So if you guys want to addthings, feel free.
Um, first thing I have is thatLidjoy has opened pre-orders for
their version of The Prisoner'sThrone by Holly Black.
So Lidjoy had done the folk ofthe air series, and so this is
the second book of the thislittle mini duology that came
(01:46):
after that, the stolen airseries.
So this is the completion ofall that.
They're all beautiful, they allmatch.
It's $50, and it's set to shipout in September of next year,
September of 2026.
Ashley (01:58):
That doesn't seem like a bad price.
Mari (02:00):
No, it's so pretty.
Like those versions, those thatversion to me, the Litjoy
version of that book is theprettiest versions of those that
series.
There's been several versionsof of like Cool Prince and all
that stuff, but I think this istheir version's the prettiest.
Next is that there's been acover reveal for Adversary to
(02:21):
the Villain by Hannah NicoleMare.
The cover design is byElizabeth Turner Stokes, and the
book itself will be releasedAugust 4th of next year, 2026.
Which is really pretty.
It does feel fast.
Kelly (02:35):
Yeah.
Jonathan (02:35):
She has uh who's the artist again?
Mari (02:39):
Elizabeth Turner Stokes.
Jonathan (02:41):
Now, has she done the uh that the art for her other
books?
Because it it looks fairly itlooks like it followed, it looks
like it's when I see this book.
I think the spine's gonnamatch.
It's gonna be the same shape,size, it's gonna have I like the
style in which she does the thethe edges are are like I like a
solid color edge.
Mari (03:03):
Yeah, which this one does, it has it's like a pink edge,
right?
Jonathan (03:06):
Yeah.
Mari (03:08):
Well, I'm on the off on the artist on Elizabeth Turner
Stokes Instagram page, and shehas assistant to the villain
here, so she at least did thatone.
I don't know if she did all ofthem, but she's got assistant to
the villain on her page, is onethat she did.
So maybe she didn't do all ofthem, but she did that one and
(03:28):
but the books all match as faras size and art seem to present.
Oh, yeah, and so for that I'vebeen what was that, Kelly?
Kelly (03:38):
The most important thing is that the books are all the
same size with the same responseand lettering and orientation.
Jonathan (03:45):
1000%.
Mari (03:47):
Yeah, I'm I'm so happy because you know, my usual my
usual late lately, my usualexample, usual example of that
is the the newest Travis Baldrybook, The Brigands and
Breadnives or whatever.
Like all the Legends and Lattebooks are have come out in
paperback, and then this onecame out in hardcover, and there
was no sign of when thepaperback was gonna come, and I
(04:07):
refuse to buy it.
Oh no because the rest of mineare paperback.
They just they just announcedthat the paper when the
paperback that a paperwork willbe released, and it will be
released.
I think it's like in April.
So I'm like, okay, well, Iguess I'm getting it then.
It's fine.
Ashley (04:21):
It's good that they listen to the people.
Kelly (04:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mari (04:25):
I I like I like if it's a series, I like it to match.
I don't not everything from thesame author has to be the same,
obviously, but like if it's aseries, come on.
Ashley (04:32):
I think that's a reasonable expectation, by the
way.
It pisses off a lot of fanswhen they deviate from you know
patterns and such.
Like I know a lot of I've seena lot of people with like the
Crescent City series by Sarah J.
Mass, and it's you know, thetwo really large paperbacks, and
then this giant hardback that'slike three inches taller and
(04:55):
just a completely different, youknow, shape and style compared
to the paperbacks.
Mari (05:00):
So unnecessary.
Ashley (05:01):
It's so rude.
Yeah.
Mari (05:03):
Um, speaking of more cover reveals, Olivia Dade has
announced or revealed the coverfor her latest book coming up,
which is The World's OcayestOracle reluctantly seeks demon.
And that's the sequel.
I know, but it's it is amouthful.
It's a sequel to Zom Romcom,which I very much enjoyed this
(05:23):
year.
The cover design for this oneis by Lenny Lenai.
I am so sorry.
Eli and I is the first name,Kaufman's the last name.
It's the same person who didthe the artwork for Zomromcom as
well.
Um so that book is going torelease August 11th, 2026.
August is going to be a busymonth next year.
Jonathan (05:43):
All right.
Does this take place in thesame okay?
And is it are they twoseparate, two different
characters, or did one movie?
Mari (05:49):
Oh no, it's separate characters.
But these characters arementioned in the first book.
Like I recognize them from thefirst book.
Kelly (05:56):
Oh.
Mari (05:57):
So Zrom Kong that haven't read it, it's like it's it's
post-apocalyptic.
The zombie apocalypse hashappened.
And there's like magicalelements in the world.
You know, there's like whatevervampires, witches, zombies.
I mean, if there's zombies, ofcourse, there's everything else.
Um and it's a bit absurd.
Like at one point, there's GirlScouts in this book.
Ashley (06:19):
It's just stop it.
Mari (06:21):
It is all over the place in the best way possible.
I like Olivia Dade's writingstyle, anyways.
I've read, I think all she's Ibelieve everything she's written
up until Zomromcom, at leasteverything published, is
contemporary romance.
I've read, I think, all of themand I've enjoyed them.
And so I was very excited toread Zom Romcom when it came
(06:41):
out, to the point that after Iread it, I like messaged her
through her website.
She's not on any social media.
I was like, I really like yourbooks.
Jonathan (06:52):
It's like it's like a it's like it's almost like this
metaphor for like likepost-pandemic life after it, you
know, because it it like if youthink about like what their
what their occupations are inZomromcom through the and then
it'll like it's plausible today.
Mari (07:10):
Like there's like the the you basically when when there's
a the alarm goes off and zombiesare happening, you you hole up
in your house.
And so both of these peoplehave jobs slash things they can
do from home and still interact,like online, you know,
Instagrammer type influencer orlike making crafts in your
(07:31):
basement kind of thing.
Those are their jobs.
Jonathan (07:35):
Absolutely.
It was a good it was a goodstory.
It's a I I definitely didn'tfall in love with it until like
probably about a third of theway into it, but it was a good
story.
Yeah.
Mari (07:45):
The next thing I have is I think I I don't remember if it
was I know it was you guys,either Jonathan or Ash.
One of you guys sent this tome, that author LJ Andrews had
posted that there they hadsuffered a fire in where they
kept their inventory that endedup affecting like a lot of their
signed copies, their swag,their special editions.
(08:06):
And it also happened to be liketheir sister's house.
Nobody got hurt, but items andof course somebody's home was
destroyed.
Jonathan (08:15):
And I I think this is more for because like LJ Andrews
is gonna survive.
Like she I when she postedthis, it was more about like,
hey, also this was this is mysister's house.
Right.
Mari (08:25):
And by the way, LJ Andrews is doing through their website,
they have a donation spot whenthere's also a GoFundMe.
So there if you, you know, canthrow something that way, if you
know, if that's something thatyou can and want to do to help
out, then that would be the wayto help out that situation.
And also just getting it outthere.
(08:46):
If you have anything you'rewaiting for LJ Andrews to ship
you, if you've bought somethingor pre-ordered something or
whatever, like give grace.
There's a lot that's been goingon with that.
If you're waiting on like asigned book or special edition
or stuff swag or whatever, likethis is what's going on there.
Kelly (09:02):
Right.
Jonathan (09:03):
It's likely all also a good way to indirectly support
or to support directly, but likeif you're if you're like, hey,
if you're not in that giving, orif you want to like double
give, like what you could do isbuy a book and gift it to a
friend.
Mari (09:17):
Right.
Jonathan (09:18):
Uh you know, every little thing helps, I'm sure.
Mari (09:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
The next hitbit I have is thatBK Borison, who we've talked
about in the past, has releasedinformation about their sequel
to Good Spirits.
So it's apparently gonna becalled the Ghosted series.
The sequel is gonna be calledGrim Tidings.
It will release fall of 2026.
We haven't read Good Spirits.
We're gonna be reading it,spoiler, we're gonna be reading
(09:41):
it for the Christmas season, forthe December season for the
podcast.
So can't tell you anythingabout it yet.
Other than there's a sequelcoming out already.
Like there's not a hard releasedate, and there's no picture or
anything for the cover, andthere's no blurb.
It's just it's coming,basically.
Jonathan (09:59):
I imagine my guess is fall 2026, October.
This is probably maybe this islike a one-year cycle.
Mari (10:07):
Uh Halloween-y kind of well, but didn't when did did
Good Spirits not come out inOctober?
Jonathan (10:13):
It it came out a couple weeks ago, I thought.
Mari (10:15):
Oh, was it November?
Jonathan (10:16):
I you know, I'm not sure.
But it's definitely up rightnow.
Mari (10:21):
So Good Spirits released on because I know it's out
already.
A Tuesday.
Jonathan (10:26):
It was a Tuesday.
Mari (10:27):
Oh, imagine that October, October 21st.
So maybe it's like a one-yearcycle.
Jonathan (10:32):
Oh impressive.
Mari (10:34):
Yeah, I mean, it gives people time to read it before
the busy holiday season.
You know, like I like to waittill closer to end of November,
December to read like thoseholiday books, but some people
just read them early.
So nothing wrong with that.
Jonathan (10:47):
Oh, I hope it's like I hope it's a oh no, that's what
we're reading.
Never mind.
I'm so sorry.
Mari (10:57):
It's that author.
Jonathan (10:58):
So yeah, I was like, yeah, it was it's like a
Christmas Carol thing.
Mari (11:01):
So it would be interesting if it's like the different
ghosts.
Maybe each book is a differentone of the different ghosts from
from Christmas Carol.
I don't know.
Jonathan (11:10):
No, that's I mean, that sounds yes.
Ooh, I'm gonna have to payattention more now.
Mari (11:14):
Because if I'm thinking grim tidings, I'm thinking the
ghost of of of Christmas futurethat could be.
That's the one that that wasthe grim tiding.
That's the one that had all thethe death, you know, uh
symbology in it, right?
Jonathan (11:28):
Yeah.
Mari (11:29):
So we'll see.
We'll see.
You guys are so smart.
I love that.
I love Christmas Carol.
I love that story a lot.
So I I could probably like ifthe apocalypse happened and we
were sitting around a fire, Icould probably tell you the
story in a close way.
All right, next bit of news.
(11:51):
There is a company called WowNine that is doing, and I've
seen this over several media,social media and websites and
whatnot.
It's an advent book, not anadvent calendar.
It's a book, and it's divvyedup by day.
So you have like parts of thestory that happen that you read
every day throughout the monthof December.
(12:11):
And at the end, you've read alittle like holiday book.
And there's three differentones you can get.
There's like a YA one, there'slike a traditional, I think,
contemporary romance one, andthere's one that's got a little
bit of a time jumpy element toit, like a miracle on 34th
Street kind of vibe.
It seems like a really coolidea to me.
There's $32.99.
(12:32):
I don't know anything aboutthis company.
I've never bought anything fromthe company, but it seemed like
a really cool concept, like adifferent take on the advent
calendar.
Jonathan (12:40):
Oh, yeah.
This is really neat.
Mari (12:42):
Right?
I mean, all it is is a way ofmaking you only read a little
bit per day.
You could do technically, youcould do the same with any book
you own.
But I like that.
Technically.
Technically.
Jonathan (12:54):
It's aligned, it's aligned with the 24 chapters,
like one for each uh December,all the way up.
There are, I'll I'll text youwith like an off-the-record book
that a lot of people do thatwith.
Mari (13:08):
Okay.
That'd be good.
I'm down.
Yeah, but I thought that was areally interesting because I've
seen several like book-relatedadvent calendars.
I love an advent calendar.
Ashley (13:17):
I love an advent calendar.
Mari (13:19):
Especially something that's not stuff, that's kind of
like a consumable adventcalendar.
Where it's like tea orchocolate or, you know, cheese.
We did a cheese adventcalendar.
Aldi's had cheese adventcalendars, did that one year.
Yeah, stuff like that, whereit's just like you don't have a
bunch of tchotchkis or things tohave to find a place for, you
know, at the end of the month.
(13:39):
It's just you enjoy theexperience of whatever the thing
is.
Um like Jeannie did, I don'tknow if she does this every
year, but one year they did likeexperiences.
So there was like a little likescre scrap of paper in every
year of the in every day of theadvent calendar, and they did an
experience.
And it could be something assmall as like lighting a candle,
or it could be like going iceskating or you know, putting
(14:02):
together a gingerbread house orwhatever.
Um, just something, you know,to touch base to be together or
whatever.
Yeah, celebrate for for likethe the winter season.
So next bit that I have is fromAllie Hazelwood.
So she's released a book.
I think it's the first timeshe's done this.
I I don't know a lot of authorsthat do this, but it's an audio
(14:24):
first only.
So there's no, you can't readthis with your eyeballs
anywhere.
So she's doing it with Spotify,but it's also available on like
anywhere you can buyaudiobooks.
It's called Bound, B-O-U-N-D,and it's it's a Dark Academia by
Ellie Hazelwood, but it's anaudiobook.
Interesting.
I am intrigued.
I will probably listen to it atsome point.
(14:45):
I've not listened to it yet.
But I like dark academia, Ilike Allie Hazelwood.
You know, and something that isproduced first and primarily
for audio should be a goodlistening experience, I would
think.
You know?
It's definitely an interestingtake.
Jonathan (15:00):
How does it feel now that she was on the other foot?
Now that the word the lettersare on the other ear.
The letters are on the otherear.
You're so silly.
Mari (15:07):
Now that the turns have tabled.
Jonathan (15:12):
Exactly.
Mari (15:13):
I've never been anti-audiobook.
Jonathan (15:15):
I know.
You're you're all you're a bigaudiobook supporter.
Mari (15:18):
I however you get the story, however, you enjoy the
story.
You know, I don't think itmatters how you how you get it.
So but I'm I'm intrigued bythat.
I think it'll be an interestingread.
Also, Allie Haswood has beenbusy, very busy.
There's uh something that she'steasing on her web on her
Instagram page.
No real information.
It's this like logo that saysAH Square, like H2O, whatever,
(15:42):
but it's A H and the 2 is verylittle in the upper right-hand
corner.
AH2 2026 collection, and it'sgot like flowers around the
outside, and people arespeculating what it is.
And she's like coming soon.
Ashley (15:53):
What's she up to?
I don't know.
That's suspicious.
Mari (15:57):
It's a collection.
So is it another likeKickstarter thing?
Like what you know, her and uhoh god, what was her name?
Uh Adriana.
I'm bad at the one.
Jonathan (16:07):
Like the one the one that just popped out?
Yeah.
The it's it's not a uh I wantedto say like a compendium, but
that's not what it is, like acompilation.
Mari (16:15):
Yeah, well, yeah, a collection at least.
Yeah, yeah.
So are they doing another oneof those, maybe?
I don't know.
Jonathan (16:21):
Maybe.
I thought great.
I thought that that model wasgreat.
All the collection of novellas,and I thought hers, I enjoyed
hers and Ruby Dixon's probablythe most.
Mari (16:33):
Are you talking about the scared scared ones?
Okay, I know I'm talking to theother ones.
Kelly (16:38):
Oh.
Mari (16:39):
The ones that were like post-apocalyptic romance.
Remember, we talked aboutthose?
It was Kickstarter.
Jonathan (16:46):
We talked about one was on Kickstarter, one was on
Amazon?
Yes.
Mari (16:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The scared ones, what were theycalled?
Scared sexy, I think.
Jonathan (16:56):
That's probably what it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mari (16:58):
Yeah.
We read, I think between youand me, we may have read all of
them.
I don't know if anybody elsehas read any of them.
Ashley (17:03):
I did not get to them.
Mari (17:04):
They're fun.
They're not specificallyHalloween.
You could really read themanytime.
I thought they were good.
I haven't I did buy the ebookand audio of the collection I
can't think of, the one that'sthat Ellie Hazelwood did with
the other author.
I just haven't read any of themyet because time it does get
away from me.
Jonathan (17:23):
Mm-hmm.
Mari (17:25):
Um, but yeah, what she's got something coming.
Don't know what it is, butthere's something new coming.
Um I appreciate the hype.
Ashley (17:33):
I know.
Creating some hype.
Mari (17:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Figure out what what she's got,what she's got coming.
Next bit I had was a article inVogue, Australia, written by
Karen Leong, L-E-O-N-G.
And the article is called UmWhy Pop Culture Loves Monsters
and What It Says About Us.
(17:56):
What does it say about us?
That's a great question.
And it basically talks aboutthe success of like the
Frankenstein movie and theNasferadu movie and more like
monster romance and monsters infantasy kind of becoming a
bigger, more mainstream kind ofthing.
And one of the people thatinterviewed was basically said
(18:17):
that, like, see, fantasy, thisis Christine Rafe from Love
Honey.
It's a she's a sex wellnessexpert that was interviewed for
the article and says, fantasy isa really healthy and safe way
to explore desire, power, andidentity, to tap into something
novel, transgressive, and taboo.
They, as in like the monsters,are intense, unpredictable, and
unapologetically different.
(18:38):
You're here.
Yeah.
And then another quote fromthat that I thought was
interesting from that article isin a world of perfect-looking
people with perfect-lookinglives online, the allure of
monsters is that they're arefreshing take on human
attraction that strips away theprejudice of beauty standards
and societal expectations.
It forces you to face a mirrorto your own beliefs in a way
(19:00):
that's quite beautiful, really.
Jonathan (19:02):
I'm feeling really called out though.
Let me just say, let me call youout further.
Uh we're we're now talkingabout a generation with
purchasing power that was raisedon Beauty and the Beast, The
Little Mermaid, you know, thethe this this those sweet type
of like monsters.
Um and now that now thatthey're adults and have grown
(19:26):
into their own and are stillliving in this very interesting
world, they can tell the storiesor um ex will seek out those
comfortable forms of expression.
Mari (19:39):
Yeah.
Jonathan (19:40):
In in a more mature way.
Mari (19:41):
Yeah.
Kelly (19:42):
Mature.
Mari (19:43):
Like to me, I will say the same thing I said at the the
monster romance panel that I didwith with Sarah from Hissing
and Kissing at Draencon.
To me, monsters romance, a bigallure of the monster romance is
is the idea that like if amonster can find love, if a
monster can be loved, if there'ssomeone out there for a
monster, then there's hope forall of us.
(20:03):
We all deserve love.
Yeah.
Jonathan (20:06):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, we used to what dowe used to say in school?
There's an ass for every seat.
Yeah.
Ashley (20:14):
Jonathan had to put it in boy real quick.
Sorry.
Jonathan (20:16):
That's translation.
Mari (20:18):
Okay.
Next bit, I think the last bitof news I have is Hannah F.
Witten, who wrote the WildwoodWilder Wood series for the wolf
and the Foxglove King and a fewother books.
She's releasing a new book.
She was actually atRomanityCon, but I think she was
just there on Friday because Iwas, I didn't realize she was
(20:39):
just there one day.
And I was like, oh, I'm gonna,I didn't I didn't buy her book,
I was gonna buy it from her, butI had to buy it from the
bookstore.
And I was like, oh, I'm gonnaget it from the bookstore and
get her to sign it.
But I did that, I planned to dothat the second day and she was
gone.
Oh yeah.
But her books are like kind ofif you like One Dark Window, you
(21:00):
might like her books.
So kind of I like One DarkWindow.
Yeah, kind of dark, kind oflike dark folk tale kind of
vibes.
Okay.
Yeah.
So she is coming up with a newbook that I don't think is a I
don't think it's a traditionalfantasy book.
It's called Reliquary.
It's a psychological fiction,is what it's being categorized
(21:20):
as.
It releases August 11, 2026.
I don't know that it would,it'll be like the traditional
fantasy books that we think of,but the reason I'm mentioning it
is because she's doing a thingnow where every dot a dollar, a
dollar from every pre-order ofthat book will be split between
Raisus charity organization andWorld Central Kitchen charity
(21:40):
organization.
Yeah, which I don't know a tonabout RaiSis, but World Central
Kitchen is a very goodorganization.
It helps feed like emergencyworkers and people after like
natural disasters and politicalman-made and natural disasters
all around the world.
Like you could basically knowwhat's going on and be up to
(22:01):
date on the news if you justfollow their social social media
pages and they'll tell youwhere they're at.
Like, oh, we're in Puerto Riconow, you know, like after
Hurricane Maria.
Oh, we're in here now afterthis hurricane, or we're here
after this political unrest.
Everywhere that there'ssomething going on, they're
there.
Yeah, they do really important,really good work.
(22:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So I thought that was reallyneat.
I don't know her story.
I don't know why she's choosingthis.
I it may have something to dowith the the story of the that
particular book, I'm not sure.
Or if something else happened,I don't know why.
But she's she's doing that.
I was like, oh, that's reallycool.
So I thought I would mentionthat on there, on here.
Ashley (22:38):
Agreed.
Kelly (22:39):
Yeah.
Mari (22:40):
Any other news anybody want to mention?
Ashley (22:42):
I don't think I have news.
Jonathan (22:44):
No, I'm fresh out.
Ashley (22:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I try to make sure I get youall the quality news.
Mari (22:49):
Yeah, and I try and post it all or keep it in one place
to post.
The only thing I didn't that wemay have talked about that I
didn't talk post to talk abouttoday, because I think we talked
about last time we did news, isthat Sword and Sparrow sequel
like cover has been released.
But I think I want to say wetalked about that because it was
really pretty.
I think I I feel like we talkedabout it.
Um I think I think I remembertalking about it.
(23:11):
Yeah.
Jonathan (23:12):
Did we mention the Goodreads voting?
Mari (23:14):
We did not.
Shield of Sparrows.
I'm sorry I said that wrong.
Shield of Sparrows sequel bookcover has been announced.
Um yeah, Goodreads is doingtheir like where you start to
pick up the the vote on thecategories, like best horror,
best ya, all that stuff.
So if you have an opinion, orif you've read a lot in one in
(23:34):
one category, which you don'thave to vote in every category.
If all you've read is likehorror books this year or
whatever, you can just vote inthat one category.
But it's a 2025 GoodreadsChoice Awards, and it's on now
that you can go through and likevote on the different
categories.
Plus, it's if nothing else,it's also a good way.
If there is a category thatyou're particularly interested
(23:56):
in, it's a good way to be like,oh, maybe you want to try and
read these before the this theseparticular books before the end
of the year.
That way you'll have an opinionon what wins the good reads,
you know, whether you thought itshould or shouldn't or
whatever.
Ashley (24:08):
I think they all should win.
Mari (24:10):
Yeah.
Ashley (24:11):
It's been that kind of year.
Mari (24:12):
Yeah.
I would say there are a lot ofa lot of good books being
nominated.
So in the romantic-specificcategory, since that's the main
one we focus on.
I'm just gonna read the titles.
Direbound by Sable Sorensen,Accomplice to the Villain by
Hannah Nicole Mereer, Mate byAllie Hazlewood, Immortal by Sue
(24:36):
Lynn Tan, Bonds of Hercules byJasmine Mawes, Rose and Chains
by Julie Soto, Our Vicious Oathsby N.
E.
Davenport, Enchantra by KayleeSmith, Alchemized by San Lin Yu,
The Songbird and The Heart ofStone by Carissa Broadbent,
Shield of Sparrows by DevneyPerry, The Wrath of the Fallen
(24:57):
Gods by Amber Nicole, TheIrresistible Urge to Fall for
Your Enemy by Bridget Knightley,On Wings of Blood by Briar
Bolan, Emily Wilde's Compendionof Lost Tales by Heather
Fawcett, Onyx Storm by RebeccaYarrows, Silver Elite by Danny
Francis, A Witch's Guide toMagical Innkeeping by
Sangumandana, The Knight and theMoth by Rachel Gillig, and Wild
(25:19):
Reverence by Rebecca Ross.
That is quite a lineup.
That is.
Jonathan (25:26):
Right.
Mari (25:28):
I haven't even read most of those.
And I was mildly concernedabout that when it says to me
about being on a podcast.
But I haven't read most ofthose.
I've read a lot of books, but Ihaven't read most of those.
And I'm I would be absolutelypetrified to pick because I've
heard so many great things aboutDyer Bound, which I haven't
read.
Um Sable Sorensen, SableSorensen was is actually a duo,
(25:50):
if I'm not mistaken.
And they were at RomanticyCon.
Um and I didn't get a chance tomeet them.
I was sad.
So I have not read Dow DireBound.
I have not read um what's thethe book that you just said that
we were just talking about?
Shield of Shield of Sparrows?
Shield of Sparrows, which wasraved about long.
(26:10):
And I've been it's desperatelyon my TBR.
I just ran out of TBR.
I have Rose of Jeans sittingnext to my bed.
I just haven't gotten to ityet.
So like these are I don't know.
Like, can you vote more thanonce?
I wish.
Ashley (26:27):
I mean, that's how you're gonna pick a winner.
Yeah.
At least they can't vote morethan once.
Mari (26:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley (26:32):
Because that would be, I feel, dip feel like it would be
debilitating.
Mari (26:36):
Yeah, it's a hard choice.
It is a difficult choice forsure.
There's a lot of good, it was alot of good books released this
year, and I think there's gonnabe a lot of good books released
next year, which is great forus as readers.
It's definitely grown likeexponentially this year, and I'm
so stoked about it.
Yeah, same.
Any other tidbits?
Kelly (26:56):
Mm-mm.
Mari (26:56):
Okay.
So we're gonna go into talkingabout Wicked, which we we mainly
want to talk about Wicked, kindof like the franchise as a
whole, because the sequel to themovie is set to release
November 21st, which thisepisode is set to release
November 20th, I do believe.
So basically, if you listen tothis when it's released, then
(27:20):
tomorrow you can watch Wickedthe Sequel, which is Wicked for
Good, is what it's called.
Um so we're gonna talk aboutmainly the movie Wicked and a
little bit about the experienceat Universal, the Wicked
Experience Universal, a littlebit about the musical, a little
bit about the book, and we allhave different experiences on
(27:41):
all of it.
But just kind of a little bitof everything.
The movie Wicked was releasedNovember 22nd of last year, of
2024.
There are lots of synopsis, butthis is a synopsis I chose.
It's short and to the point.
Alphabet, a young womanridiculed for her green skin,
and Gelinda, a popular girl,become friends at Shiz
University in the Land of Oz.
After an encounter with thewonderful Wizard of Oz, their
(28:03):
friendship reaches a crossroads.
Ashley (28:05):
You know what?
That's accurate.
Kelly (28:06):
Yeah.
Mari (28:07):
Yeah.
I will say the whole thing, ifyou don't know, is based off of
The Wizard of Oz, which is a L.
Frank Baum book written in1900.
It's The Wizard of Oz.
It's a whole series, which Ihave never actually read the the
children's books.
The Wizard of Oz, and thethere's like a series of them.
(28:27):
Has have has anybody read them?
I didn't know it was a series.
Jonathan (28:32):
No, I I'm like super duper afraid of the Wizard of
Oz.
Mari (28:36):
Kelly, have you read any of the old ones?
Like the kids' books?
Kelly (28:39):
Uh no, I've read the first one.
Mari (28:41):
You've I think you've read more than any of us then,
because I haven't even read thefirst one.
Kelly wins.
I knew they existed, and Ithey're on my list to read.
And I think I only knew theyexisted because I really,
really, really okay.
I really like the Return to Ozmovie that is creepy and
wonderful.
It's got a giant pumpkin thathead that comes to life, a moose
(29:03):
head that turns into like achariot.
What other it's got an empressor sorceress or something gonna
remove her head.
She's got a whole closet fullof heads that she takes off and
on.
Ashley (29:14):
Just chilling with some heads.
Mari (29:15):
I mean, Return to Oz has I'm trying to remember the
actress's name.
Farooza Bulk is plays Dorothy.
She was in The Craft.
The Craft, thank you.
I was gonna say Trap The Craft,and then Island of Dr.
Moreau.
She played all those weirdcharacters in like late 90s,
early 2000s.
Um but yeah, based off of thatbook, Gregory McGuire then did a
(29:40):
retelling, which is Wicked Umuh The Life and Times of the
Wicked Witch of the West.
And that was released in like1995, which is earlier than I
thought.
I didn't read it when it wasfirst came out, but I've read it
like 20 years ago.
I've only read it once, Ibelieve.
Once in English.
English ones in Spanish, but itwas all around the same time
(30:02):
frame, like 20 years ago.
Um, it is now a four-bookseries, and I've only read two
of them.
And there's also a prequel thatjust came out this year called
Elfie, I believe.
The original book was 26 weekson the New York Times
bestseller, and it sold fivemillion copies.
Dang.
Yeah.
So after that came out, whichthe book, Kelly, you've read the
(30:25):
book, right?
You read Wicked, and I've readWicked.
You guys have not, right?
John the Nash?
Jonathan (30:30):
Have not.
Mari (30:30):
The book is interesting.
I remember really, reallyenjoying the book.
I have started to reread itliterally just today, because I
ran out of time.
But I started to reread it.
And like I said, it's the firsttime in like 20 years.
So it'd be interesting to seewhat my take on it now will be
versus, you know, what I thoughtabout it then.
But so far, it is much the bookis much darker than I remember.
(30:54):
Yeah.
And also the book is the moviethat's coming that that came out
and the sequel that's comingout tomorrow, both of those are
the first book.
So the book was like dividedinto two movies.
Oh, okay.
Jonathan (31:06):
Yeah, that's the kind of vibe I got out of that, out
of the movie, too.
Ashley (31:10):
I mean it doesn't matter.
Kelly (31:11):
It mirrors the musical which had two acts.
Mari (31:13):
Right.
So the then after the bookbecame popular, the musical
happened in 2003.
The musical is based off of thebook, but it does change some
things also from the book.
It was very well reviewed.
It was nominated for 10 TonyAwards.
Adina Menzel played Alphabet inthe original, yeah, like run of
(31:35):
that.
And uh she won for bestactress, she won a Tony for Best
Actress, and then the show wonfor best scenic design and best
costume design.
Which it deserved all that.
Like Kelly and I didn't see iton Broadway, but we saw it in
Atlanta when it was touring, andit was it was like watching a
movie, some of the specialeffects they did.
Things were flying, things werecoming out of like the sky
(31:59):
going down, the theirintermission, because you know
there's it was long, so there'san intermission.
The intermission, which isbasically the end of the first
movie, she's like flying in themiddle of the stage with like
her cloak billowing that turnsinto like the entire background
of the stage.
It is transformative.
Was it so magical?
(32:19):
Yeah, yeah.
If ever you get the chance tosee musical done, uh to see the
wicked musical done, I highlyrecommend it.
It's a good show.
And then the movie, WickedMovie, is based off of the
musical, and that's the one thatwe're mainly talking about.
That was released in 2024.
Four, yeah.
(32:40):
It received 10 nominations, the97th Academy Awards, including
Best Picture.
It won for Best Costume Designand Best Production Design, and
it grossed $758 million on a$150 million budget, becoming
the highest-grossing Oz film,the highest-grossing musical
film adaptation, and the fifthhighest-grossing film of 2024.
(33:03):
This all makes sense.
It was popular.
Kelly (33:09):
Well, the the me the musical really took off and grew
very, very popular over, youknow, from the time it you know
originated to when they hadmultiple touring groups doing
it, as well as the Broadwayshow.
And it there was like thiswhole phenomenon.
I remember some people goinginto it on like NPR stuff,
talking about how the wholefriendship thing between Glinda
(33:33):
and Alphaba, which is verydifferent than what was in the
book, that that part of themusical apparently really
resonated with female audiences,and that's what kind of drove
the musical to becomingincreasingly more and more
popular and selling outconstantly, the tours selling
out and everything, andeventually, you know, prompting
(33:54):
them to make a movie.
Ashley (33:56):
Yeah.
Who runs the world?
Girls.
Mari (34:01):
I mean, I think that the musical, the the the the movie
did a good job of portraying alot of the vibe of the musical
so far.
Like we haven't seen the secondhalf, we can't speak for the
second half, but the first halfI thought did a wonderful job of
portraying like the magic andthe otherworldliness that is Oz.
(34:21):
Um and yet also bringing inlike some very serious topics
into it.
Kelly (34:27):
But not nearly as in-depth and politically topical
as the book was.
Mari (34:32):
Right.
Right.
I the book was definitelydeeper.
And the book focused on a fewdifferent things.
I also don't know exactlywhat's going to happen in the
second movie, so I don't want tospoil anything.
So I'm not gonna talk about,I'm gonna try and not talk about
stuff that happened in thesecond half of the book or the
second half of the musicalbecause that's all happening in
the movie that's coming out.
Um, but there's definitely waymore story to be told.
(34:54):
The first movie, though, Ithink did a great job of setting
up lots of things.
Did you guys you guys didn'twatch it like at the movie
theater, right?
It was more recently.
Jonathan (35:03):
Yeah, no, we we watched it at uh at home so we
streamed it.
Mari (35:06):
So what'd you think?
Jonathan (35:08):
I so um Ashley asked me if I wanted to go to the
movies to see the second part,and I said to her, I do not want
to go to the movies because Ido not feel comfortable emoting
with a film in public.
Oh wow.
Um I as a child I was extremelyafraid of the Wizard of Oz
(35:31):
movie.
And with this, with this movie,it was it's there, it's I'm
angry about a lot of things ingeneral right now, just like the
world, the real world, yeah.
Yeah.
And so when I when I watchedthis story play out on the
(35:51):
screen, there were a lot of umparallels.
Ashley (35:56):
Yes, there were.
Jonathan (35:56):
Um and uh it and to me it was like at some point
you're just angry with withothers and just kind of watching
what's not just the maincharacters, but what's going on
in the background?
What are the what are theothers doing?
How much are the othersallowing to happen?
(36:17):
And are you are you equally asguilty?
Are you complicit via silence?
You know, it's like how wheredo these characters fit in and
like what's what's reallyhappening here?
I don't like I I immediatelywant to be want to be angry at
people for referring to Alphabetas the wicked witch.
(36:39):
Like there's nothing wickedabout her, right?
Like I I immediately want to beupset at people who uh balance
that with Glinda the Good, youknow.
I looking at the manipulationof Madame Morable and and and
the the narcissistic behavior ofthe Words of Oz.
(37:02):
Let me just break out on JeffGoldblum real quick.
So I saw the list.
It's gonna be good.
Buckle up.
Jeff Jeff is giving off he'sgiving off Chaos Zeus slash
Ragnarok grandmaster vibes.
Yeah to this whole like 100%.
Is is this his only characternow?
It's his only the onlycharacter.
Like he's just let's justtypecast him as this
(37:24):
narcissistic ruler.
Mari (37:26):
I mean, maybe he has fun playing it, and at this point he
doesn't have to do anything hedoesn't want to do.
Kelly (37:30):
There comes a point when an actor is just being cast as
themselves.
Oh you're seeing that withJeff, you're seeing that with
Jeff Goldblum and Nicolas Cage.
Jonathan (37:42):
Why didn't you just put the bunnet down?
Um sorry.
Um the uh yeah, Jeff is I youknow what I like about Jeff
though is his his cadence anddiction.
Like they're almost uh musicalit's a drug.
(38:04):
You know, it's I could listento him read a story and it
doesn't uh any story that'd beentertained.
Yeah, I I don't think so.
The wizard didn't really uh youdon't get a lot out of him
except for this.
What I I would love to maybejust look at the screen time for
Jeff Goldblum.
I'm sure it's like just ahandful of minutes.
Ashley (38:25):
Yeah.
Jonathan (38:25):
Uh you know, it nothing nothing crazy, but it's
so impactful in the story.
Everybody wants his attention.
You get that vibe throughoutthe whole thing, and you're
privileged to get thatattention.
You get there and you realize,holy shit, it's fake.
Yep.
The other person who I thinkhad very had minimal screen
time, but I feel like is moreimpact, I think it gets glossed
(38:50):
over and is extremely impactfulin the story, Nessa Rose.
Ashley (38:54):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan (38:54):
Yep.
You know, uh we uh this is sortof like Anakin Darth Vader,
kind of like you see him andyou're like, oh, young character
grows into this other thing.
And that's sort of like we'reseeing Nessa Rose.
Uh was it was she the she's thewitch of the north?
Mari (39:14):
Uh uh the east.
Kelly (39:15):
Uh she's the witch she's the witch of the east.
Mari (39:17):
Yeah.
Jonathan (39:18):
The witch of the east.
Okay.
Mari (39:19):
In the Wizard of Oz movie, she's the the legs you see
under the house.
Jonathan (39:22):
Yes.
And in in this movie, she's thethe the the opening the opening
scene, right?
Where it is that the housetakes her out, and then you're
and then it's a flashback.
Is that accurate?
Did I see that correctly?
Mari (39:40):
So the start of the movie, yes, is basically the start of
the Wizard of Oz when Dorothylands in Munchkin Land.
Jonathan (39:47):
And and they flash back.
Okay, cool.
Ashley (39:50):
And Glenda shows up, confirms that that the wicked
witch is dead, and goes on tokind of tell that story.
Jonathan (39:57):
I'm not sure if Nessa Rose is wicked.
Mari (40:01):
They never call her wicked.
Nessa Rose will figure in moreif it if it goes by the book,
like the blended.
Yeah, she will play a biggerrole in the second movie.
Ashley (40:12):
But they never call her wicked in the same way they do
it to Alphabet, do they?
Kelly (40:16):
Not yet.
No.
Mari (40:17):
But you remember it was a it was a PR spin too.
Like they had to label Elfie asas wicked because if the wizard
is the best thing ever andshe's opposed to the wizard, she
must be bad.
Kelly (40:30):
Right.
Jonathan (40:31):
Are you saying that the wizard is like a bigly kind
of person and that we have todehumanize our counterparts in
order to turn social structuresagainst them or society against
them?
No.
Why would I say that?
I mean, I don't let me put wordsin anyone's mouth.
My goodness.
(40:51):
And that maybe that, yeah.
This is I I think what'sinteresting to me is Nessa Rose
didn't go to Shiz to she didn'tgo to Shiz to be trained as a as
a witch, did she?
She went to Shiz for herpost-secondary education.
Kelly (41:07):
Right.
Jonathan (41:08):
As a privileged and as a privileged child.
But clearly, she goes on tobecome a witch and has to have
some sort of formal training, Iwould assume.
I they're gonna I think peopleare gonna have to pick sides,
and the people who are gonnahave to make the most
challenging choices are gonna bethe characters who are most who
(41:30):
are closest to the situation.
Um and I I I struggle to think,and I and I'm sorry, the same
way the same way you feel aboutserious Mikey Day.
What's his name, Ashley?
I don't know who you're talkingabout.
The guy from who uh who inventedChristmas, who played not
Charlie Chaplin, Charlie CharlesDickens in that movie.
(41:50):
I don't think the one that Ithought looked like Mikey Day.
Ashley (41:55):
I have no idea what you're trying to reference.
Mari (41:57):
That actor.
So this the same way I feelabout that actor is what you're
saying.
Jonathan (42:00):
Is the same way I feel about Ariana Grande.
Mari (42:03):
I I understand.
I know you've said that before.
I didn't have an opinion onAriana Grande at all.
Like I knew she was like asinger, and that's it.
That's all I knew about herbefore her being cast in this
wicked movie.
Jonathan (42:13):
And maybe she did such a good job playing Glinda that
it pissed me off.
Like maybe that's you didn'twant to like her.
Yeah, I don't like maybe likeI'm so disgusted with the the
the fake ass friendship.
Ashley (42:27):
The other things.
Jonathan (42:28):
Yeah, that I'm just like, ooh, maybe I I dislike Ari
Ariana, if you're out there,I'm sorry.
You maybe you did such a goodjob.
You're such a fine actress herethat you've managed to turn me
against you in real life.
Mari (42:42):
Just because we hadn't mentioned it, the actress who
plays Nessa Rose is MarissaBode, who I think she did a good
job.
I will say, in addition to yourNessa Rose, I will I will raise
you Peter Dinklage as Dr.
Dillaman, the goat.
Jonathan (42:57):
Yes.
Mari (42:58):
Shit, was that him?
Jonathan (42:59):
Yes, it was.
Yes.
Amazing job.
Yes, and and he's and he's theoppressed.
Mari (43:05):
Yes.
Jonathan (43:06):
I'm so upset for that goat.
Mari (43:07):
I love Peter Dinklage.
Me too.
So in the musical and in themovie, Alphaba is kind of
ostracized because she'sdifferent and the Throps, you
know, her family kind of wantsto keep up appearances.
They have, you know, it's he'sthe dad's the governor.
You know, there there are thereare appearances that need to be
kept up.
(43:28):
In the book, it's a littledarker.
In the book, uh, the dad is alike a minister, basically, like
a preacher.
And the day the day that thatAlphabet's mom goes into labor,
the he's like, no, this is notconvenient for me.
I've got these this this sermonto do.
(43:48):
This isn't happening today, andleaves her.
It's dark.
And they're like God, do youcan say it?
The the way that that Alphabetis treated as a baby in the
book, I'm sure that in themusical and in the movie, it
probably would have been thesame way, but they're not going
to go that dark or that deepinto it.
(44:09):
But it's the idea like the onlyperson that loved Alphabet
growing up was the nanny andNessa Rose.
That's all she had.
Jonathan (44:18):
And it's it's made clear in this movie too, at the
beginning, and tell me if it'sthe same in the in the book and
in the in the musical that Shiz,the the journey to Shiz is
about Nessa Rose.
100%.
Okay.
And it's and and Elphobus sentas almost as a as a caretaker or
(44:40):
a secondary.
Mari (44:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jonathan (44:42):
And she's she's just taken advantage of when she
arrives.
Mari (44:45):
Yeah, well, I mean, Madame Marble sees what's happening
and decides that she needs tostay, which Michelle Yeo did an
amazing job in that role aswell.
But Michelle Yeo does well ineverything I've ever seen.
Jonathan (44:57):
In everything that she touches.
Yeah.
What was she in Star Trek?
Mari (45:01):
Sheng Chi, Couching Tragor, Hin Dragon, everything
everywhere, all at one point.
Ashley (45:05):
The Ten Rings, Shang Chi.
Jonathan (45:06):
Sheng Chi.
The Ten Rings.
That's probably what's probablywhere I remember her most from.
Ashley (45:11):
She's done very many prolific things.
I don't mean to diminish whatshe's done.
Jonathan (45:16):
Did she do Crazy Rich Asians?
Kelly (45:18):
Uh yes.
And before all this, she was aworld-renowned Hong Kong action
movie star.
Mari (45:24):
Yeah.
Jonathan (45:25):
Interesting.
I want to I'd like to see how Ifeel like her character, she's
like the hands.
She's boots on the ground.
She's the she's like, let'ssay, a certain person who speaks
on behalf of yeah, of of thenarcissist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's the she's that buffer,that layer between, she's a
safety layer on pudding that'sbeen left out too long, keeping
(45:47):
the public away from and maybenot directly, keeping the
students or the the traineesaway.
Mari (45:53):
As it was, I think in a way she was a bit of a spy for
the wizard.
Ashley (45:57):
I was gonna say she was the sorcerer, like in that she
was trying to find the answerthat the wizard needed and hope.
She was she just did she foundsomeone that was too smart.
She it the Elphaba, no, itwasn't even the power.
They needed the power.
What they didn't need was thebrain that Alphabet came along
with.
They needed the gullibility andthe the needing to be liked.
(46:20):
That was Glinda.
Jonathan (46:22):
They needed some they need, yeah, exactly.
That's what it was.
They needed somebody who was,and so I didn't feel like I
definitely struggled with Glindaas a as a character.
I I thought of her as like justshallow, privileged.
Okay.
I just she was definitelycraving popularity, but I didn't
see her as a rival, and Ididn't see her, I don't see her
(46:48):
arc as transformative.
I s right now I see her as acoward.
Mari (46:53):
I there's a lot more that will happen to her in the second
book, second, second movie,second part.
There's gonna be more to herstory.
Jonathan (47:01):
Okay.
Okay.
Ashley (47:03):
The first enemy is not always the last enemy.
Yeah.
Jonathan (47:06):
Okay.
I'm I I'm not sure what to makeout of Fierro.
I don't see it as a love as aas a love triangle.
I think he's in love withAlphabet.
Mari (47:16):
So Fierro, it's interesting.
In the and like I said, it'sbeen 20 years since I read the
book.
So Kelly rem correct me if youremember.
I thought the the Prince Fierrorole in the book, he was blue.
Kelly (47:30):
Yes.
Mari (47:31):
Yeah.
The people like his where he'sfrom, the land or whatever,
they're blue.
But they didn't make him blue,I don't think, in the musical,
from what I remember.
Ashley (47:39):
No.
Mari (47:39):
Uh and so they adapted that into the movie where he's
not blue.
Which I think adds a little bitof like camaraderie between
them.
That, you know, they're like,oh, they're the only like
weirdly colored people, whereeveryone else is like, I guess a
standard human skin tone, andthen you have like a big thing.
Kelly (47:53):
Well they call him dark skinned with blue diamonds.
Like tattoos.
Right.
Ashley (47:58):
Yeah.
Kelly (47:59):
Interesting.
Mari (47:59):
I thought he did a good job with the the dancing and
stuff, especially like in thelibrary where he's dancing on
the books and everything.
I thought that was really welldone.
Jonathan (48:07):
So yeah.
I'm gonna be interested to seehow his his story, like what his
choices are next.
And then the last person I'mconcerned about is Bach, the the
the boy who is crushing superhard on Glinda but was steered
towards Nessa Rose.
Like it really, I don't know ifit like it was just a f a
(48:30):
fleeting moment on screen whenhe when they were saying goodbye
and she was headed off to theEmerald City, and and he and she
said, I'm gonna get rid of thegh for Dr.
Dilamond.
Um and I'll now just be knownas Glinda instead of Gulinda.
And he like fanboyed over herso hard.
And the camera cut to Narose.
(48:52):
And I think right there she waslike, Yeah.
That's and that that look said,All right, buddy.
Yeah, I see, I see, I see yourtrue colors, and I see like I
was just I'm just status to you.
I'm a I'm a way to climb thethis the ladder, the social, the
social ladder, and I'm notgonna be used that way.
I'm I'm real angry in this inthis case.
(49:15):
So I if you told me that if youtold me that Nessarose has a a
darker side, doesn't ex or or isis manipulated by Madame Marble
and learned some learned somemagic, but it has a dark, has
has her own nefarious plan.
Like I'm oh yeah, I'm gonna geteven.
(49:36):
I'm gonna show you all.
I I I could see that.
Uh Fiero, if you tell me he hasa hard time choosing sides or
or chooses a side and it's notpopular, but his status keeps
him alive, I would believe that.
Outside of that, I'm I'm reallyinterested to see how you can
(49:58):
see how they're the propagandathat's that's that's being spin
machined.
Yeah.
But people who are close toAlphaba, they have to they have
to know you know who this personis.
Mari (50:12):
But what are you gonna do?
I mean, you have to be willingto speak up, and that's the
thing.
Elfie is the one that's willingto speak up.
Jonathan (50:20):
Yeah.
Well, when she found her voice,she found the shit out of that
voice.
Mari (50:24):
So the actress who plays Alphabet is Cynthia Arrivo,
which I don't think I had I knowshe's done some movies, but I
hadn't seen her in any movies.
But I know she's got a reallygood reputation on like like
musicals and plays.
I thought she did a really goodjob as playing Alphabet.
Because I was really worried onwho was gonna play Alphaba
(50:45):
because you gotta be able toemote a lot.
Um I mean, and Dina Menzel kindof set that bar really high,
too.
That was my favorite.
Like I love Adina, and I thinkCynthia did a really good job.
I'm really am looking forwardto how they're gonna portray the
rest of this story in thesecond movie, and it's hard to
(51:05):
hard it's hard to talk about itwithout talking about everything
that's gonna happen, butthere's a lot that's gonna
happen, and I'm curious to seehow they're gonna bring that
together.
Ashley (51:12):
It's impressive too that they're releasing them a year
apart.
Like they've worked really hardto to close those gaps so that
you know it's fresh andavailable and and whatnot for
everyone.
I didn't expect them to releasethe second one literally.
I knew that they had filmed itback to back, but I didn't think
they were gonna release themback to back like that.
(51:32):
That's almost unheard of.
Mari (51:34):
I think I may be misremembering, but I thought at
the end of the first movie itsaid the release date for the
second movie.
Ashley (51:40):
They might have.
I think they planned to bestill impressive.
Mari (51:43):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
It's I think they almost filmedit all concurrently.
Like I think they did a lot ofstuff at the same time.
Ashley (51:49):
Yeah.
No, they did.
They definitely filmed it backto back and they were
transparent about it at somepoint immediately after the
first movie.
But it's to me, it's still justastounding that they
accomplished accomplished thesetwo things in you know, 365
days.
Usually, you know, industrieswill milk it if nothing else.
Mari (52:08):
And they're they'll wait to see if the first one's gonna
be good or get their money backbefore they put money into the
rest of it or a sequel.
Ashley (52:15):
So no, I think they knew.
Mari (52:17):
Yeah.
Ashley (52:18):
There's a lot of big names tied to this.
That's true.
And you know, I think the thethe musical itself is such a a
cult classic in and of itself.
I had not seen the play, and Iwas moved by the movie.
So I think that says a lot, youknow, that they were they I
think they just they had thatfeeling.
Jonathan (52:39):
Well, the the formula has changed.
It used to be build all thesethings to support the movie.
Now the movies the moviebecomes step one.
All right, we have the movie,we have the story.
Now let's bring people to theexperience.
And that's like that's been amodel that um that Disney's been
(53:00):
perfecting and that Universalhas been working on too.
And and I so I I think thateven with there's so many facets
to this story that it's I I thI think of the movies as uh a
stage in in the experience likea step uh in the experience, but
not necessarily the end goal.
Mari (53:20):
Yeah.
So Universal did their wickedexperience, which is located on
the Universal Studios side atUniversal in Orlando.
Um is it in California as well,Kelly?
Do you remember?
Kelly (53:37):
I don't know.
Mari (53:38):
Hmm.
Well, I know it's in Florida,in Orlando.
We've all done it.
So it's basically like thiswalkthrough experience where
actually, before you even getinto the experience, there's a
little food stand outside.
You can get it your little Ozdrink with your green glitter in
it.
Um which I did, and it wasgood.
It was worth worth worth it.
(54:00):
Um and then inside they hadlike different costumes and
things from the movie.
From the movie, yeah.
Yeah, that you could really likeget a good look at it, kind of
see what it looked like in reallife, a little feel for the the
characters, and then they hadlike different things, prop, not
props, but like merchandisingfrom the movie that you could
(54:22):
buy.
I thought that was a fun littlewalkthrough experience.
I mean, you don't it's all partof your regular ticketed park
thing.
You don't have to like payanything extra to go in.
But if you're in the park andyou at all like Wicked, uh if
you're going to Universal, thenplan to do the experience for
sure.
Jonathan (54:38):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go into the
Experience Center, does it ittakes us, if I recall, it takes
us through the journey, likethrough Shiz and then through
okay, and you're in the like youcan step onto the like the
controls of the of the I want tosay the mask, yeah, the wizard
face thing.
And and it's it's it's a story,they tell the story as you go
(55:01):
through the gift shop.
Mari (55:04):
Yeah, and you end up in Oz.
Like that Oz is like the thevery end, yeah.
It takes you from Shiz to Oz,absolutely.
Like it even has like a little3D replica model of of the train
that took them to Oz.
Um and for anyone who doesn'tknow, when they get to Oz and
they there's the whole like showthat tells you the backstory of
(55:24):
the of the grimoire and like ofthe wizard came, like Adina
Menzel, and I cannot rememberthe name of the actress who
played the original Glenn.
Yes, they were like the two uhtwo characters in there who
would like left the prophecyabout the the grimoire.
I don't think I knew they weregonna be in there when I first
(55:47):
surprised.
Yeah.
Ashley (55:49):
I think there were rumors about it, but it was very
unconfirmed and like nobodyknew in what capacity.
Mari (55:54):
Yeah.
Ashley (55:55):
But it was a delightful surprise.
Mari (55:57):
Anything else anybody else wants to bring up before we
come to our final question?
Kelly (56:02):
I think one of the things that I didn't like about the
movie is that they changed someof the musical numbers somewhat
the original Broadway musicalnumbers.
And I would say that I don'tnecessarily like soundtrack for
the movie compared to the musicof the Broadway music.
I think the Broadway musicalnumbers are better.
(56:24):
Maybe it's just because that'swhat I was exposed to first.
Mari (56:27):
So here's the question, and it may be a different answer
for the book versus the musicalversus the movie.
So feel free to give answersfor whatever version or all of
those versions that you want.
Is it a kissing story?
Not everybody go it first.
Kelly (56:43):
I mean, I don't think you can judge it based on the first
movie.
Mari (56:47):
Yeah, because it's half a story.
I think I agree.
Jonathan (56:50):
I agree.
I I I don't have an answer andso if I if I were to say based
on the first one, no, but maybewe need this to be a to be
continued and we'll answer thisafter the second one.
Yeah, I would like that.
Because that's like I'm I'm notsold out on this yet.
Ashley (57:10):
I I want to see the second one, but because we would
have the answer in the book,right?
In the whole book, yes.
Yeah, in the whole first book,right?
Kelly (57:17):
Right.
Mari (57:18):
Okay.
So I agree.
I think we should hold off.
It's like you know half a storyright now, basically.
Right.
Stopped halfway through thebook.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think that's a goodidea.
Anything else about any of thewicked stuff that we want to
talk about before I wrap it up?
Ashley (57:32):
I think you guys did a good a great job.
All right.
Analyzing, going through thestuff, relating it to real time
events.
Mari (57:40):
Events, real life, yeah.
Ashley (57:41):
I was I was trying to find a word.
Mari (57:43):
Events is accurate.
Jonathan (57:44):
We call it depression.
Mari (57:46):
Yeah, anxiety, depression.
Yay.
Everything is fine.
This is fine.
This is fine.
All fine.
Jonathan (57:53):
Just that that meme.
If you're if you are sad anddepressed, tell somebody.
Speak out.
Mari (58:00):
Yeah, talk to someone, reach out, absolutely.
Jonathan (58:03):
And check in on your friends.
Mari (58:04):
Yep.
Yep.
All right.
So wrapping it up, thanks forlistening to us on Swords and
Soulmates.
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(58:25):
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(58:47):
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Kelly (00:34):
Hey everyone, it's Kelly.
We also have Ashley.
Ashley (00:37):
Hey guys, it's Ashley.
We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan (00:40):
It's the most wonderful time.
What's good, everybody?
Mari (00:45):
Yes.
Oh no.
Jonathan (00:51):
For those who don't understand that reference,
that's a that's what's it?
It's the Holiday Spectacular?
The Grinch Grinch.
Yes.
Mari (01:00):
It's just called the Grinch Show, or what is it?
Kelly (01:02):
Is it the Hooliday Spectacular?
Mari (01:04):
Okay.
At Universal, yeah.
It's from that.
Very, very niche.
And yet it ties in to some ofthe stuff we're gonna have to be
talking about today.
So we're gonna be discussingWicked the Movie, based on the
book by Gregory McGuire.
But first, as always, somenews, lots of news today.
So much news.
(01:26):
So much news.
And I'm sure I've stillforgotten stuff.
So if you guys want to addthings, feel free.
Um, first thing I have is thatLidjoy has opened pre-orders for
their version of The Prisoner'sThrone by Holly Black.
So Lidjoy had done the folk ofthe air series, and so this is
the second book of the thislittle mini duology that came
(01:46):
after that, the stolen airseries.
So this is the completion ofall that.
They're all beautiful, they allmatch.
It's $50, and it's set to shipout in September of next year,
September of 2026.
Ashley (01:58):
That doesn't seem like a bad price.
Mari (02:00):
No, it's so pretty.
Like those versions, those thatversion to me, the Litjoy
version of that book is theprettiest versions of those that
series.
There's been several versionsof of like Cool Prince and all
that stuff, but I think this istheir version's the prettiest.
Next is that there's been acover reveal for Adversary to
(02:21):
the Villain by Hannah NicoleMare.
The cover design is byElizabeth Turner Stokes, and the
book itself will be releasedAugust 4th of next year, 2026.
Which is really pretty.
It does feel fast.
Kelly (02:35):
Yeah.
Jonathan (02:35):
She has uh who's the artist again?
Mari (02:39):
Elizabeth Turner Stokes.
Jonathan (02:41):
Now, has she done the uh that the art for her other
books?
Because it it looks fairly itlooks like it followed, it looks
like it's when I see this book.
I think the spine's gonnamatch.
It's gonna be the same shape,size, it's gonna have I like the
style in which she does the thethe edges are are like I like a
solid color edge.
Mari (03:03):
Yeah, which this one does, it has it's like a pink edge,
right?
Jonathan (03:06):
Yeah.
Mari (03:08):
Well, I'm on the off on the artist on Elizabeth Turner
Stokes Instagram page, and shehas assistant to the villain
here, so she at least did thatone.
I don't know if she did all ofthem, but she's got assistant to
the villain on her page, is onethat she did.
So maybe she didn't do all ofthem, but she did that one and
(03:28):
but the books all match as faras size and art seem to present.
Oh, yeah, and so for that I'vebeen what was that, Kelly?
Kelly (03:38):
The most important thing is that the books are all the
same size with the same responseand lettering and orientation.
Jonathan (03:45):
1000%.
Mari (03:47):
Yeah, I'm I'm so happy because you know, my usual my
usual late lately, my usualexample, usual example of that
is the the newest Travis Baldrybook, The Brigands and
Breadnives or whatever.
Like all the Legends and Lattebooks are have come out in
paperback, and then this onecame out in hardcover, and there
was no sign of when thepaperback was gonna come, and I
(04:07):
refuse to buy it.
Oh no because the rest of mineare paperback.
They just they just announcedthat the paper when the
paperback that a paperwork willbe released, and it will be
released.
I think it's like in April.
So I'm like, okay, well, Iguess I'm getting it then.
It's fine.
Ashley (04:21):
It's good that they listen to the people.
Kelly (04:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mari (04:25):
I I like I like if it's a series, I like it to match.
I don't not everything from thesame author has to be the same,
obviously, but like if it's aseries, come on.
Ashley (04:32):
I think that's a reasonable expectation, by the
way.
It pisses off a lot of fanswhen they deviate from you know
patterns and such.
Like I know a lot of I've seena lot of people with like the
Crescent City series by Sarah J.
Mass, and it's you know, thetwo really large paperbacks, and
then this giant hardback that'slike three inches taller and
(04:55):
just a completely different, youknow, shape and style compared
to the paperbacks.
Mari (05:00):
So unnecessary.
Ashley (05:01):
It's so rude.
Yeah.
Mari (05:03):
Um, speaking of more cover reveals, Olivia Dade has
announced or revealed the coverfor her latest book coming up,
which is The World's OcayestOracle reluctantly seeks demon.
And that's the sequel.
I know, but it's it is amouthful.
It's a sequel to Zom Romcom,which I very much enjoyed this
(05:23):
year.
The cover design for this oneis by Lenny Lenai.
I am so sorry.
Eli and I is the first name,Kaufman's the last name.
It's the same person who didthe the artwork for Zomromcom as
well.
Um so that book is going torelease August 11th, 2026.
August is going to be a busymonth next year.
Jonathan (05:43):
All right.
Does this take place in thesame okay?
And is it are they twoseparate, two different
characters, or did one movie?
Mari (05:49):
Oh no, it's separate characters.
But these characters arementioned in the first book.
Like I recognize them from thefirst book.
Kelly (05:56):
Oh.
Mari (05:57):
So Zrom Kong that haven't read it, it's like it's it's
post-apocalyptic.
The zombie apocalypse hashappened.
And there's like magicalelements in the world.
You know, there's like whatevervampires, witches, zombies.
I mean, if there's zombies, ofcourse, there's everything else.
Um and it's a bit absurd.
Like at one point, there's GirlScouts in this book.
Ashley (06:19):
It's just stop it.
Mari (06:21):
It is all over the place in the best way possible.
I like Olivia Dade's writingstyle, anyways.
I've read, I think all she's Ibelieve everything she's written
up until Zomromcom, at leasteverything published, is
contemporary romance.
I've read, I think, all of themand I've enjoyed them.
And so I was very excited toread Zom Romcom when it came
(06:41):
out, to the point that after Iread it, I like messaged her
through her website.
She's not on any social media.
I was like, I really like yourbooks.
Jonathan (06:52):
It's like it's like a it's like it's almost like this
metaphor for like likepost-pandemic life after it, you
know, because it it like if youthink about like what their
what their occupations are inZomromcom through the and then
it'll like it's plausible today.
Mari (07:10):
Like there's like the the you basically when when there's
a the alarm goes off and zombiesare happening, you you hole up
in your house.
And so both of these peoplehave jobs slash things they can
do from home and still interact,like online, you know,
Instagrammer type influencer orlike making crafts in your
(07:31):
basement kind of thing.
Those are their jobs.
Jonathan (07:35):
Absolutely.
It was a good it was a goodstory.
It's a I I definitely didn'tfall in love with it until like
probably about a third of theway into it, but it was a good
story.
Yeah.
Mari (07:45):
The next thing I have is I think I I don't remember if it
was I know it was you guys,either Jonathan or Ash.
One of you guys sent this tome, that author LJ Andrews had
posted that there they hadsuffered a fire in where they
kept their inventory that endedup affecting like a lot of their
signed copies, their swag,their special editions.
(08:06):
And it also happened to be liketheir sister's house.
Nobody got hurt, but items andof course somebody's home was
destroyed.
Jonathan (08:15):
And I I think this is more for because like LJ Andrews
is gonna survive.
Like she I when she postedthis, it was more about like,
hey, also this was this is mysister's house.
Right.
Mari (08:25):
And by the way, LJ Andrews is doing through their website,
they have a donation spot whenthere's also a GoFundMe.
So there if you, you know, canthrow something that way, if you
know, if that's something thatyou can and want to do to help
out, then that would be the wayto help out that situation.
And also just getting it outthere.
(08:46):
If you have anything you'rewaiting for LJ Andrews to ship
you, if you've bought somethingor pre-ordered something or
whatever, like give grace.
There's a lot that's been goingon with that.
If you're waiting on like asigned book or special edition
or stuff swag or whatever, likethis is what's going on there.
Kelly (09:02):
Right.
Jonathan (09:03):
It's likely all also a good way to indirectly support
or to support directly, but likeif you're if you're like, hey,
if you're not in that giving, orif you want to like double
give, like what you could do isbuy a book and gift it to a
friend.
Mari (09:17):
Right.
Jonathan (09:18):
Uh you know, every little thing helps, I'm sure.
Mari (09:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
The next hitbit I have is thatBK Borison, who we've talked
about in the past, has releasedinformation about their sequel
to Good Spirits.
So it's apparently gonna becalled the Ghosted series.
The sequel is gonna be calledGrim Tidings.
It will release fall of 2026.
We haven't read Good Spirits.
We're gonna be reading it,spoiler, we're gonna be reading
(09:41):
it for the Christmas season, forthe December season for the
podcast.
So can't tell you anythingabout it yet.
Other than there's a sequelcoming out already.
Like there's not a hard releasedate, and there's no picture or
anything for the cover, andthere's no blurb.
It's just it's coming,basically.
Jonathan (09:59):
I imagine my guess is fall 2026, October.
This is probably maybe this islike a one-year cycle.
Mari (10:07):
Uh Halloween-y kind of well, but didn't when did did
Good Spirits not come out inOctober?
Jonathan (10:13):
It it came out a couple weeks ago, I thought.
Mari (10:15):
Oh, was it November?
Jonathan (10:16):
I you know, I'm not sure.
But it's definitely up rightnow.
Mari (10:21):
So Good Spirits released on because I know it's out
already.
A Tuesday.
Jonathan (10:26):
It was a Tuesday.
Mari (10:27):
Oh, imagine that October, October 21st.
So maybe it's like a one-yearcycle.
Jonathan (10:32):
Oh impressive.
Mari (10:34):
Yeah, I mean, it gives people time to read it before
the busy holiday season.
You know, like I like to waittill closer to end of November,
December to read like thoseholiday books, but some people
just read them early.
So nothing wrong with that.
Jonathan (10:47):
Oh, I hope it's like I hope it's a oh no, that's what
we're reading.
Never mind.
I'm so sorry.
Mari (10:57):
It's that author.
Jonathan (10:58):
So yeah, I was like, yeah, it was it's like a
Christmas Carol thing.
Mari (11:01):
So it would be interesting if it's like the different
ghosts.
Maybe each book is a differentone of the different ghosts from
from Christmas Carol.
I don't know.
Jonathan (11:10):
No, that's I mean, that sounds yes.
Ooh, I'm gonna have to payattention more now.
Mari (11:14):
Because if I'm thinking grim tidings, I'm thinking the
ghost of of of Christmas futurethat could be.
That's the one that that wasthe grim tiding.
That's the one that had all thethe death, you know, uh
symbology in it, right?
Jonathan (11:28):
Yeah.
Mari (11:29):
So we'll see.
We'll see.
You guys are so smart.
I love that.
I love Christmas Carol.
I love that story a lot.
So I I could probably like ifthe apocalypse happened and we
were sitting around a fire, Icould probably tell you the
story in a close way.
All right, next bit of news.
(11:51):
There is a company called WowNine that is doing, and I've
seen this over several media,social media and websites and
whatnot.
It's an advent book, not anadvent calendar.
It's a book, and it's divvyedup by day.
So you have like parts of thestory that happen that you read
every day throughout the monthof December.
(12:11):
And at the end, you've read alittle like holiday book.
And there's three differentones you can get.
There's like a YA one, there'slike a traditional, I think,
contemporary romance one, andthere's one that's got a little
bit of a time jumpy element toit, like a miracle on 34th
Street kind of vibe.
It seems like a really coolidea to me.
There's $32.99.
(12:32):
I don't know anything aboutthis company.
I've never bought anything fromthe company, but it seemed like
a really cool concept, like adifferent take on the advent
calendar.
Jonathan (12:40):
Oh, yeah.
This is really neat.
Mari (12:42):
Right?
I mean, all it is is a way ofmaking you only read a little
bit per day.
You could do technically, youcould do the same with any book
you own.
But I like that.
Technically.
Technically.
Jonathan (12:54):
It's aligned, it's aligned with the 24 chapters,
like one for each uh December,all the way up.
There are, I'll I'll text youwith like an off-the-record book
that a lot of people do thatwith.
Mari (13:08):
Okay.
That'd be good.
I'm down.
Yeah, but I thought that was areally interesting because I've
seen several like book-relatedadvent calendars.
I love an advent calendar.
Ashley (13:17):
I love an advent calendar.
Mari (13:19):
Especially something that's not stuff, that's kind of
like a consumable adventcalendar.
Where it's like tea orchocolate or, you know, cheese.
We did a cheese adventcalendar.
Aldi's had cheese adventcalendars, did that one year.
Yeah, stuff like that, whereit's just like you don't have a
bunch of tchotchkis or things tohave to find a place for, you
know, at the end of the month.
(13:39):
It's just you enjoy theexperience of whatever the thing
is.
Um like Jeannie did, I don'tknow if she does this every
year, but one year they did likeexperiences.
So there was like a little likescre scrap of paper in every
year of the in every day of theadvent calendar, and they did an
experience.
And it could be something assmall as like lighting a candle,
or it could be like going iceskating or you know, putting
(14:02):
together a gingerbread house orwhatever.
Um, just something, you know,to touch base to be together or
whatever.
Yeah, celebrate for for likethe the winter season.
So next bit that I have is fromAllie Hazelwood.
So she's released a book.
I think it's the first timeshe's done this.
I I don't know a lot of authorsthat do this, but it's an audio
(14:24):
first only.
So there's no, you can't readthis with your eyeballs
anywhere.
So she's doing it with Spotify,but it's also available on like
anywhere you can buyaudiobooks.
It's called Bound, B-O-U-N-D,and it's it's a Dark Academia by
Ellie Hazelwood, but it's anaudiobook.
Interesting.
I am intrigued.
I will probably listen to it atsome point.
(14:45):
I've not listened to it yet.
But I like dark academia, Ilike Allie Hazelwood.
You know, and something that isproduced first and primarily
for audio should be a goodlistening experience, I would
think.
You know?
It's definitely an interestingtake.
Jonathan (15:00):
How does it feel now that she was on the other foot?
Now that the word the lettersare on the other ear.
The letters are on the otherear.
You're so silly.
Mari (15:07):
Now that the turns have tabled.
Jonathan (15:12):
Exactly.
Mari (15:13):
I've never been anti-audiobook.
Jonathan (15:15):
I know.
You're you're all you're a bigaudiobook supporter.
Mari (15:18):
I however you get the story, however, you enjoy the
story.
You know, I don't think itmatters how you how you get it.
So but I'm I'm intrigued bythat.
I think it'll be an interestingread.
Also, Allie Haswood has beenbusy, very busy.
There's uh something that she'steasing on her web on her
Instagram page.
No real information.
It's this like logo that saysAH Square, like H2O, whatever,
(15:42):
but it's A H and the 2 is verylittle in the upper right-hand
corner.
AH2 2026 collection, and it'sgot like flowers around the
outside, and people arespeculating what it is.
And she's like coming soon.
Ashley (15:53):
What's she up to?
I don't know.
That's suspicious.
Mari (15:57):
It's a collection.
So is it another likeKickstarter thing?
Like what you know, her and uhoh god, what was her name?
Uh Adriana.
I'm bad at the one.
Jonathan (16:07):
Like the one the one that just popped out?
Yeah.
The it's it's not a uh I wantedto say like a compendium, but
that's not what it is, like acompilation.
Mari (16:15):
Yeah, well, yeah, a collection at least.
Yeah, yeah.
So are they doing another oneof those, maybe?
I don't know.
Jonathan (16:21):
Maybe.
I thought great.
I thought that that model wasgreat.
All the collection of novellas,and I thought hers, I enjoyed
hers and Ruby Dixon's probablythe most.
Mari (16:33):
Are you talking about the scared scared ones?
Okay, I know I'm talking to theother ones.
Kelly (16:38):
Oh.
Mari (16:39):
The ones that were like post-apocalyptic romance.
Remember, we talked aboutthose?
It was Kickstarter.
Jonathan (16:46):
We talked about one was on Kickstarter, one was on
Amazon?
Yes.
Mari (16:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The scared ones, what were theycalled?
Scared sexy, I think.
Jonathan (16:56):
That's probably what it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mari (16:58):
Yeah.
We read, I think between youand me, we may have read all of
them.
I don't know if anybody elsehas read any of them.
Ashley (17:03):
I did not get to them.
Mari (17:04):
They're fun.
They're not specificallyHalloween.
You could really read themanytime.
I thought they were good.
I haven't I did buy the ebookand audio of the collection I
can't think of, the one that'sthat Ellie Hazelwood did with
the other author.
I just haven't read any of themyet because time it does get
away from me.
Jonathan (17:23):
Mm-hmm.
Mari (17:25):
Um, but yeah, what she's got something coming.
Don't know what it is, butthere's something new coming.
Um I appreciate the hype.
Ashley (17:33):
I know.
Creating some hype.
Mari (17:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Figure out what what she's got,what she's got coming.
Next bit I had was a article inVogue, Australia, written by
Karen Leong, L-E-O-N-G.
And the article is called UmWhy Pop Culture Loves Monsters
and What It Says About Us.
(17:56):
What does it say about us?
That's a great question.
And it basically talks aboutthe success of like the
Frankenstein movie and theNasferadu movie and more like
monster romance and monsters infantasy kind of becoming a
bigger, more mainstream kind ofthing.
And one of the people thatinterviewed was basically said
(18:17):
that, like, see, fantasy, thisis Christine Rafe from Love
Honey.
It's a she's a sex wellnessexpert that was interviewed for
the article and says, fantasy isa really healthy and safe way
to explore desire, power, andidentity, to tap into something
novel, transgressive, and taboo.
They, as in like the monsters,are intense, unpredictable, and
unapologetically different.
(18:38):
You're here.
Yeah.
And then another quote fromthat that I thought was
interesting from that article isin a world of perfect-looking
people with perfect-lookinglives online, the allure of
monsters is that they're arefreshing take on human
attraction that strips away theprejudice of beauty standards
and societal expectations.
It forces you to face a mirrorto your own beliefs in a way
(19:00):
that's quite beautiful, really.
Jonathan (19:02):
I'm feeling really called out though.
Let me just say, let me call youout further.
Uh we're we're now talkingabout a generation with
purchasing power that was raisedon Beauty and the Beast, The
Little Mermaid, you know, thethe this this those sweet type
of like monsters.
Um and now that now thatthey're adults and have grown
(19:26):
into their own and are stillliving in this very interesting
world, they can tell the storiesor um ex will seek out those
comfortable forms of expression.
Mari (19:39):
Yeah.
Jonathan (19:40):
In in a more mature way.
Mari (19:41):
Yeah.
Kelly (19:42):
Mature.
Mari (19:43):
Like to me, I will say the same thing I said at the the
monster romance panel that I didwith with Sarah from Hissing
and Kissing at Draencon.
To me, monsters romance, a bigallure of the monster romance is
is the idea that like if amonster can find love, if a
monster can be loved, if there'ssomeone out there for a
monster, then there's hope forall of us.
(20:03):
We all deserve love.
Yeah.
Jonathan (20:06):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, we used to what dowe used to say in school?
There's an ass for every seat.
Yeah.
Ashley (20:14):
Jonathan had to put it in boy real quick.
Sorry.
Jonathan (20:16):
That's translation.
Mari (20:18):
Okay.
Next bit, I think the last bitof news I have is Hannah F.
Witten, who wrote the WildwoodWilder Wood series for the wolf
and the Foxglove King and a fewother books.
She's releasing a new book.
She was actually atRomanityCon, but I think she was
just there on Friday because Iwas, I didn't realize she was
(20:39):
just there one day.
And I was like, oh, I'm gonna,I didn't I didn't buy her book,
I was gonna buy it from her, butI had to buy it from the
bookstore.
And I was like, oh, I'm gonnaget it from the bookstore and
get her to sign it.
But I did that, I planned to dothat the second day and she was
gone.
Oh yeah.
But her books are like kind ofif you like One Dark Window, you
(21:00):
might like her books.
So kind of I like One DarkWindow.
Yeah, kind of dark, kind oflike dark folk tale kind of
vibes.
Okay.
Yeah.
So she is coming up with a newbook that I don't think is a I
don't think it's a traditionalfantasy book.
It's called Reliquary.
It's a psychological fiction,is what it's being categorized
(21:20):
as.
It releases August 11, 2026.
I don't know that it would,it'll be like the traditional
fantasy books that we think of,but the reason I'm mentioning it
is because she's doing a thingnow where every dot a dollar, a
dollar from every pre-order ofthat book will be split between
Raisus charity organization andWorld Central Kitchen charity
(21:40):
organization.
Yeah, which I don't know a tonabout RaiSis, but World Central
Kitchen is a very goodorganization.
It helps feed like emergencyworkers and people after like
natural disasters and politicalman-made and natural disasters
all around the world.
Like you could basically knowwhat's going on and be up to
(22:01):
date on the news if you justfollow their social social media
pages and they'll tell youwhere they're at.
Like, oh, we're in Puerto Riconow, you know, like after
Hurricane Maria.
Oh, we're in here now afterthis hurricane, or we're here
after this political unrest.
Everywhere that there'ssomething going on, they're
there.
Yeah, they do really important,really good work.
(22:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So I thought that was reallyneat.
I don't know her story.
I don't know why she's choosingthis.
I it may have something to dowith the the story of the that
particular book, I'm not sure.
Or if something else happened,I don't know why.
But she's she's doing that.
I was like, oh, that's reallycool.
So I thought I would mentionthat on there, on here.
Ashley (22:38):
Agreed.
Kelly (22:39):
Yeah.
Mari (22:40):
Any other news anybody want to mention?
Ashley (22:42):
I don't think I have news.
Jonathan (22:44):
No, I'm fresh out.
Ashley (22:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I try to make sure I get youall the quality news.
Mari (22:49):
Yeah, and I try and post it all or keep it in one place
to post.
The only thing I didn't that wemay have talked about that I
didn't talk post to talk abouttoday, because I think we talked
about last time we did news, isthat Sword and Sparrow sequel
like cover has been released.
But I think I want to say wetalked about that because it was
really pretty.
I think I I feel like we talkedabout it.
Um I think I think I remembertalking about it.
(23:11):
Yeah.
Jonathan (23:12):
Did we mention the Goodreads voting?
Mari (23:14):
We did not.
Shield of Sparrows.
I'm sorry I said that wrong.
Shield of Sparrows sequel bookcover has been announced.
Um yeah, Goodreads is doingtheir like where you start to
pick up the the vote on thecategories, like best horror,
best ya, all that stuff.
So if you have an opinion, orif you've read a lot in one in
(23:34):
one category, which you don'thave to vote in every category.
If all you've read is likehorror books this year or
whatever, you can just vote inthat one category.
But it's a 2025 GoodreadsChoice Awards, and it's on now
that you can go through and likevote on the different
categories.
Plus, it's if nothing else,it's also a good way.
If there is a category thatyou're particularly interested
(23:56):
in, it's a good way to be like,oh, maybe you want to try and
read these before the this theseparticular books before the end
of the year.
That way you'll have an opinionon what wins the good reads,
you know, whether you thought itshould or shouldn't or
whatever.
Ashley (24:08):
I think they all should win.
Mari (24:10):
Yeah.
Ashley (24:11):
It's been that kind of year.
Mari (24:12):
Yeah.
I would say there are a lot ofa lot of good books being
nominated.
So in the romantic-specificcategory, since that's the main
one we focus on.
I'm just gonna read the titles.
Direbound by Sable Sorensen,Accomplice to the Villain by
Hannah Nicole Mereer, Mate byAllie Hazlewood, Immortal by Sue
(24:36):
Lynn Tan, Bonds of Hercules byJasmine Mawes, Rose and Chains
by Julie Soto, Our Vicious Oathsby N.
E.
Davenport, Enchantra by KayleeSmith, Alchemized by San Lin Yu,
The Songbird and The Heart ofStone by Carissa Broadbent,
Shield of Sparrows by DevneyPerry, The Wrath of the Fallen
(24:57):
Gods by Amber Nicole, TheIrresistible Urge to Fall for
Your Enemy by Bridget Knightley,On Wings of Blood by Briar
Bolan, Emily Wilde's Compendionof Lost Tales by Heather
Fawcett, Onyx Storm by RebeccaYarrows, Silver Elite by Danny
Francis, A Witch's Guide toMagical Innkeeping by
Sangumandana, The Knight and theMoth by Rachel Gillig, and Wild
(25:19):
Reverence by Rebecca Ross.
That is quite a lineup.
That is.
Jonathan (25:26):
Right.
Mari (25:28):
I haven't even read most of those.
And I was mildly concernedabout that when it says to me
about being on a podcast.
But I haven't read most ofthose.
I've read a lot of books, but Ihaven't read most of those.
And I'm I would be absolutelypetrified to pick because I've
heard so many great things aboutDyer Bound, which I haven't
read.
Um Sable Sorensen, SableSorensen was is actually a duo,
(25:50):
if I'm not mistaken.
And they were at RomanticyCon.
Um and I didn't get a chance tomeet them.
I was sad.
So I have not read Dow DireBound.
I have not read um what's thethe book that you just said that
we were just talking about?
Shield of Shield of Sparrows?
Shield of Sparrows, which wasraved about long.
(26:10):
And I've been it's desperatelyon my TBR.
I just ran out of TBR.
I have Rose of Jeans sittingnext to my bed.
I just haven't gotten to ityet.
So like these are I don't know.
Like, can you vote more thanonce?
I wish.
Ashley (26:27):
I mean, that's how you're gonna pick a winner.
Yeah.
At least they can't vote morethan once.
Mari (26:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley (26:32):
Because that would be, I feel, dip feel like it would be
debilitating.
Mari (26:36):
Yeah, it's a hard choice.
It is a difficult choice forsure.
There's a lot of good, it was alot of good books released this
year, and I think there's gonnabe a lot of good books released
next year, which is great forus as readers.
It's definitely grown likeexponentially this year, and I'm
so stoked about it.
Yeah, same.
Any other tidbits?
Kelly (26:56):
Mm-mm.
Mari (26:56):
Okay.
So we're gonna go into talkingabout Wicked, which we we mainly
want to talk about Wicked, kindof like the franchise as a
whole, because the sequel to themovie is set to release
November 21st, which thisepisode is set to release
November 20th, I do believe.
So basically, if you listen tothis when it's released, then
(27:20):
tomorrow you can watch Wickedthe Sequel, which is Wicked for
Good, is what it's called.
Um so we're gonna talk aboutmainly the movie Wicked and a
little bit about the experienceat Universal, the Wicked
Experience Universal, a littlebit about the musical, a little
bit about the book, and we allhave different experiences on
(27:41):
all of it.
But just kind of a little bitof everything.
The movie Wicked was releasedNovember 22nd of last year, of
2024.
There are lots of synopsis, butthis is a synopsis I chose.
It's short and to the point.
Alphabet, a young womanridiculed for her green skin,
and Gelinda, a popular girl,become friends at Shiz
University in the Land of Oz.
After an encounter with thewonderful Wizard of Oz, their
(28:03):
friendship reaches a crossroads.
Ashley (28:05):
You know what?
That's accurate.
Kelly (28:06):
Yeah.
Mari (28:07):
Yeah.
I will say the whole thing, ifyou don't know, is based off of
The Wizard of Oz, which is a L.
Frank Baum book written in1900.
It's The Wizard of Oz.
It's a whole series, which Ihave never actually read the the
children's books.
The Wizard of Oz, and thethere's like a series of them.
(28:27):
Has have has anybody read them?
I didn't know it was a series.
Jonathan (28:32):
No, I I'm like super duper afraid of the Wizard of
Oz.
Mari (28:36):
Kelly, have you read any of the old ones?
Like the kids' books?
Kelly (28:39):
Uh no, I've read the first one.
Mari (28:41):
You've I think you've read more than any of us then,
because I haven't even read thefirst one.
Kelly wins.
I knew they existed, and Ithey're on my list to read.
And I think I only knew theyexisted because I really,
really, really okay.
I really like the Return to Ozmovie that is creepy and
wonderful.
It's got a giant pumpkin thathead that comes to life, a moose
(29:03):
head that turns into like achariot.
What other it's got an empressor sorceress or something gonna
remove her head.
She's got a whole closet fullof heads that she takes off and
on.
Ashley (29:14):
Just chilling with some heads.
Mari (29:15):
I mean, Return to Oz has I'm trying to remember the
actress's name.
Farooza Bulk is plays Dorothy.
She was in The Craft.
The Craft, thank you.
I was gonna say Trap The Craft,and then Island of Dr.
Moreau.
She played all those weirdcharacters in like late 90s,
early 2000s.
Um but yeah, based off of thatbook, Gregory McGuire then did a
(29:40):
retelling, which is Wicked Umuh The Life and Times of the
Wicked Witch of the West.
And that was released in like1995, which is earlier than I
thought.
I didn't read it when it wasfirst came out, but I've read it
like 20 years ago.
I've only read it once, Ibelieve.
Once in English.
English ones in Spanish, but itwas all around the same time
(30:02):
frame, like 20 years ago.
Um, it is now a four-bookseries, and I've only read two
of them.
And there's also a prequel thatjust came out this year called
Elfie, I believe.
The original book was 26 weekson the New York Times
bestseller, and it sold fivemillion copies.
Dang.
Yeah.
So after that came out, whichthe book, Kelly, you've read the
(30:25):
book, right?
You read Wicked, and I've readWicked.
You guys have not, right?
John the Nash?
Jonathan (30:30):
Have not.
Mari (30:30):
The book is interesting.
I remember really, reallyenjoying the book.
I have started to reread itliterally just today, because I
ran out of time.
But I started to reread it.
And like I said, it's the firsttime in like 20 years.
So it'd be interesting to seewhat my take on it now will be
versus, you know, what I thoughtabout it then.
But so far, it is much the bookis much darker than I remember.
(30:54):
Yeah.
And also the book is the moviethat's coming that that came out
and the sequel that's comingout tomorrow, both of those are
the first book.
So the book was like dividedinto two movies.
Oh, okay.
Jonathan (31:06):
Yeah, that's the kind of vibe I got out of that, out
of the movie, too.
Ashley (31:10):
I mean it doesn't matter.
Kelly (31:11):
It mirrors the musical which had two acts.
Mari (31:13):
Right.
So the then after the bookbecame popular, the musical
happened in 2003.
The musical is based off of thebook, but it does change some
things also from the book.
It was very well reviewed.
It was nominated for 10 TonyAwards.
Adina Menzel played Alphabet inthe original, yeah, like run of
(31:35):
that.
And uh she won for bestactress, she won a Tony for Best
Actress, and then the show wonfor best scenic design and best
costume design.
Which it deserved all that.
Like Kelly and I didn't see iton Broadway, but we saw it in
Atlanta when it was touring, andit was it was like watching a
movie, some of the specialeffects they did.
Things were flying, things werecoming out of like the sky
(31:59):
going down, the theirintermission, because you know
there's it was long, so there'san intermission.
The intermission, which isbasically the end of the first
movie, she's like flying in themiddle of the stage with like
her cloak billowing that turnsinto like the entire background
of the stage.
It is transformative.
Was it so magical?
(32:19):
Yeah, yeah.
If ever you get the chance tosee musical done, uh to see the
wicked musical done, I highlyrecommend it.
It's a good show.
And then the movie, WickedMovie, is based off of the
musical, and that's the one thatwe're mainly talking about.
That was released in 2024.
Four, yeah.
(32:40):
It received 10 nominations, the97th Academy Awards, including
Best Picture.
It won for Best Costume Designand Best Production Design, and
it grossed $758 million on a$150 million budget, becoming
the highest-grossing Oz film,the highest-grossing musical
film adaptation, and the fifthhighest-grossing film of 2024.
(33:03):
This all makes sense.
It was popular.
Kelly (33:09):
Well, the the me the musical really took off and grew
very, very popular over, youknow, from the time it you know
originated to when they hadmultiple touring groups doing
it, as well as the Broadwayshow.
And it there was like thiswhole phenomenon.
I remember some people goinginto it on like NPR stuff,
talking about how the wholefriendship thing between Glinda
(33:33):
and Alphaba, which is verydifferent than what was in the
book, that that part of themusical apparently really
resonated with female audiences,and that's what kind of drove
the musical to becomingincreasingly more and more
popular and selling outconstantly, the tours selling
out and everything, andeventually, you know, prompting
(33:54):
them to make a movie.
Ashley (33:56):
Yeah.
Who runs the world?
Girls.
Mari (34:01):
I mean, I think that the musical, the the the the movie
did a good job of portraying alot of the vibe of the musical
so far.
Like we haven't seen the secondhalf, we can't speak for the
second half, but the first halfI thought did a wonderful job of
portraying like the magic andthe otherworldliness that is Oz.
(34:21):
Um and yet also bringing inlike some very serious topics
into it.
Kelly (34:27):
But not nearly as in-depth and politically topical
as the book was.
Mari (34:32):
Right.
Right.
I the book was definitelydeeper.
And the book focused on a fewdifferent things.
I also don't know exactlywhat's going to happen in the
second movie, so I don't want tospoil anything.
So I'm not gonna talk about,I'm gonna try and not talk about
stuff that happened in thesecond half of the book or the
second half of the musicalbecause that's all happening in
the movie that's coming out.
Um, but there's definitely waymore story to be told.
(34:54):
The first movie, though, Ithink did a great job of setting
up lots of things.
Did you guys you guys didn'twatch it like at the movie
theater, right?
It was more recently.
Jonathan (35:03):
Yeah, no, we we watched it at uh at home so we
streamed it.
Mari (35:06):
So what'd you think?
Jonathan (35:08):
I so um Ashley asked me if I wanted to go to the
movies to see the second part,and I said to her, I do not want
to go to the movies because Ido not feel comfortable emoting
with a film in public.
Oh wow.
Um I as a child I was extremelyafraid of the Wizard of Oz
(35:31):
movie.
And with this, with this movie,it was it's there, it's I'm
angry about a lot of things ingeneral right now, just like the
world, the real world, yeah.
Yeah.
And so when I when I watchedthis story play out on the
(35:51):
screen, there were a lot of umparallels.
Ashley (35:56):
Yes, there were.
Jonathan (35:56):
Um and uh it and to me it was like at some point
you're just angry with withothers and just kind of watching
what's not just the maincharacters, but what's going on
in the background?
What are the what are theothers doing?
How much are the othersallowing to happen?
(36:17):
And are you are you equally asguilty?
Are you complicit via silence?
You know, it's like how wheredo these characters fit in and
like what's what's reallyhappening here?
I don't like I I immediatelywant to be want to be angry at
people for referring to Alphabetas the wicked witch.
(36:39):
Like there's nothing wickedabout her, right?
Like I I immediately want to beupset at people who uh balance
that with Glinda the Good, youknow.
I looking at the manipulationof Madame Morable and and and
the the narcissistic behavior ofthe Words of Oz.
(37:02):
Let me just break out on JeffGoldblum real quick.
So I saw the list.
It's gonna be good.
Buckle up.
Jeff Jeff is giving off he'sgiving off Chaos Zeus slash
Ragnarok grandmaster vibes.
Yeah to this whole like 100%.
Is is this his only characternow?
It's his only the onlycharacter.
Like he's just let's justtypecast him as this
(37:24):
narcissistic ruler.
Mari (37:26):
I mean, maybe he has fun playing it, and at this point he
doesn't have to do anything hedoesn't want to do.
Kelly (37:30):
There comes a point when an actor is just being cast as
themselves.
Oh you're seeing that withJeff, you're seeing that with
Jeff Goldblum and Nicolas Cage.
Jonathan (37:42):
Why didn't you just put the bunnet down?
Um sorry.
Um the uh yeah, Jeff is I youknow what I like about Jeff
though is his his cadence anddiction.
Like they're almost uh musicalit's a drug.
(38:04):
You know, it's I could listento him read a story and it
doesn't uh any story that'd beentertained.
Yeah, I I don't think so.
The wizard didn't really uh youdon't get a lot out of him
except for this.
What I I would love to maybejust look at the screen time for
Jeff Goldblum.
I'm sure it's like just ahandful of minutes.
Ashley (38:25):
Yeah.
Jonathan (38:25):
Uh you know, it nothing nothing crazy, but it's
so impactful in the story.
Everybody wants his attention.
You get that vibe throughoutthe whole thing, and you're
privileged to get thatattention.
You get there and you realize,holy shit, it's fake.
Yep.
The other person who I thinkhad very had minimal screen
time, but I feel like is moreimpact, I think it gets glossed
(38:50):
over and is extremely impactfulin the story, Nessa Rose.
Ashley (38:54):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan (38:54):
Yep.
You know, uh we uh this is sortof like Anakin Darth Vader,
kind of like you see him andyou're like, oh, young character
grows into this other thing.
And that's sort of like we'reseeing Nessa Rose.
Uh was it was she the she's thewitch of the north?
Mari (39:14):
Uh uh the east.
Kelly (39:15):
Uh she's the witch she's the witch of the east.
Mari (39:17):
Yeah.
Jonathan (39:18):
The witch of the east.
Okay.
Mari (39:19):
In the Wizard of Oz movie, she's the the legs you see
under the house.
Jonathan (39:22):
Yes.
And in in this movie, she's thethe the the opening the opening
scene, right?
Where it is that the housetakes her out, and then you're
and then it's a flashback.
Is that accurate?
Did I see that correctly?
Mari (39:40):
So the start of the movie, yes, is basically the start of
the Wizard of Oz when Dorothylands in Munchkin Land.
Jonathan (39:47):
And and they flash back.
Okay, cool.
Ashley (39:50):
And Glenda shows up, confirms that that the wicked
witch is dead, and goes on tokind of tell that story.
Jonathan (39:57):
I'm not sure if Nessa Rose is wicked.
Mari (40:01):
They never call her wicked.
Nessa Rose will figure in moreif it if it goes by the book,
like the blended.
Yeah, she will play a biggerrole in the second movie.
Ashley (40:12):
But they never call her wicked in the same way they do
it to Alphabet, do they?
Kelly (40:16):
Not yet.
No.
Mari (40:17):
But you remember it was a it was a PR spin too.
Like they had to label Elfie asas wicked because if the wizard
is the best thing ever andshe's opposed to the wizard, she
must be bad.
Kelly (40:30):
Right.
Jonathan (40:31):
Are you saying that the wizard is like a bigly kind
of person and that we have todehumanize our counterparts in
order to turn social structuresagainst them or society against
them?
No.
Why would I say that?
I mean, I don't let me put wordsin anyone's mouth.
My goodness.
(40:51):
And that maybe that, yeah.
This is I I think what'sinteresting to me is Nessa Rose
didn't go to Shiz to she didn'tgo to Shiz to be trained as a as
a witch, did she?
She went to Shiz for herpost-secondary education.
Kelly (41:07):
Right.
Jonathan (41:08):
As a privileged and as a privileged child.
But clearly, she goes on tobecome a witch and has to have
some sort of formal training, Iwould assume.
I they're gonna I think peopleare gonna have to pick sides,
and the people who are gonnahave to make the most
challenging choices are gonna bethe characters who are most who
(41:30):
are closest to the situation.
Um and I I I struggle to think,and I and I'm sorry, the same
way the same way you feel aboutserious Mikey Day.
What's his name, Ashley?
I don't know who you're talkingabout.
The guy from who uh who inventedChristmas, who played not
Charlie Chaplin, Charlie CharlesDickens in that movie.
(41:50):
I don't think the one that Ithought looked like Mikey Day.
Ashley (41:55):
I have no idea what you're trying to reference.
Mari (41:57):
That actor.
So this the same way I feelabout that actor is what you're
saying.
Jonathan (42:00):
Is the same way I feel about Ariana Grande.
Mari (42:03):
I I understand.
I know you've said that before.
I didn't have an opinion onAriana Grande at all.
Like I knew she was like asinger, and that's it.
That's all I knew about herbefore her being cast in this
wicked movie.
Jonathan (42:13):
And maybe she did such a good job playing Glinda that
it pissed me off.
Like maybe that's you didn'twant to like her.
Yeah, I don't like maybe likeI'm so disgusted with the the
the fake ass friendship.
Ashley (42:27):
The other things.
Jonathan (42:28):
Yeah, that I'm just like, ooh, maybe I I dislike Ari
Ariana, if you're out there,I'm sorry.
You maybe you did such a goodjob.
You're such a fine actress herethat you've managed to turn me
against you in real life.
Mari (42:42):
Just because we hadn't mentioned it, the actress who
plays Nessa Rose is MarissaBode, who I think she did a good
job.
I will say, in addition to yourNessa Rose, I will I will raise
you Peter Dinklage as Dr.
Dillaman, the goat.
Jonathan (42:57):
Yes.
Mari (42:58):
Shit, was that him?
Jonathan (42:59):
Yes, it was.
Yes.
Amazing job.
Yes, and and he's and he's theoppressed.
Mari (43:05):
Yes.
Jonathan (43:06):
I'm so upset for that goat.
Mari (43:07):
I love Peter Dinklage.
Me too.
So in the musical and in themovie, Alphaba is kind of
ostracized because she'sdifferent and the Throps, you
know, her family kind of wantsto keep up appearances.
They have, you know, it's he'sthe dad's the governor.
You know, there there are thereare appearances that need to be
kept up.
(43:28):
In the book, it's a littledarker.
In the book, uh, the dad is alike a minister, basically, like
a preacher.
And the day the day that thatAlphabet's mom goes into labor,
the he's like, no, this is notconvenient for me.
I've got these this this sermonto do.
(43:48):
This isn't happening today, andleaves her.
It's dark.
And they're like God, do youcan say it?
The the way that that Alphabetis treated as a baby in the
book, I'm sure that in themusical and in the movie, it
probably would have been thesame way, but they're not going
to go that dark or that deepinto it.
(44:09):
But it's the idea like the onlyperson that loved Alphabet
growing up was the nanny andNessa Rose.
That's all she had.
Jonathan (44:18):
And it's it's made clear in this movie too, at the
beginning, and tell me if it'sthe same in the in the book and
in the in the musical that Shiz,the the journey to Shiz is
about Nessa Rose.
100%.
Okay.
And it's and and Elphobus sentas almost as a as a caretaker or
(44:40):
a secondary.
Mari (44:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jonathan (44:42):
And she's she's just taken advantage of when she
arrives.
Mari (44:45):
Yeah, well, I mean, Madame Marble sees what's happening
and decides that she needs tostay, which Michelle Yeo did an
amazing job in that role aswell.
But Michelle Yeo does well ineverything I've ever seen.
Jonathan (44:57):
In everything that she touches.
Yeah.
What was she in Star Trek?
Mari (45:01):
Sheng Chi, Couching Tragor, Hin Dragon, everything
everywhere, all at one point.
Ashley (45:05):
The Ten Rings, Shang Chi.
Jonathan (45:06):
Sheng Chi.
The Ten Rings.
That's probably what's probablywhere I remember her most from.
Ashley (45:11):
She's done very many prolific things.
I don't mean to diminish whatshe's done.
Jonathan (45:16):
Did she do Crazy Rich Asians?
Kelly (45:18):
Uh yes.
And before all this, she was aworld-renowned Hong Kong action
movie star.
Mari (45:24):
Yeah.
Jonathan (45:25):
Interesting.
I want to I'd like to see how Ifeel like her character, she's
like the hands.
She's boots on the ground.
She's the she's like, let'ssay, a certain person who speaks
on behalf of yeah, of of thenarcissist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's the she's that buffer,that layer between, she's a
safety layer on pudding that'sbeen left out too long, keeping
(45:47):
the public away from and maybenot directly, keeping the
students or the the traineesaway.
Mari (45:53):
As it was, I think in a way she was a bit of a spy for
the wizard.
Ashley (45:57):
I was gonna say she was the sorcerer, like in that she
was trying to find the answerthat the wizard needed and hope.
She was she just did she foundsomeone that was too smart.
She it the Elphaba, no, itwasn't even the power.
They needed the power.
What they didn't need was thebrain that Alphabet came along
with.
They needed the gullibility andthe the needing to be liked.
(46:20):
That was Glinda.
Jonathan (46:22):
They needed some they need, yeah, exactly.
That's what it was.
They needed somebody who was,and so I didn't feel like I
definitely struggled with Glindaas a as a character.
I I thought of her as like justshallow, privileged.
Okay.
I just she was definitelycraving popularity, but I didn't
see her as a rival, and Ididn't see her, I don't see her
(46:48):
arc as transformative.
I s right now I see her as acoward.
Mari (46:53):
I there's a lot more that will happen to her in the second
book, second, second movie,second part.
There's gonna be more to herstory.
Jonathan (47:01):
Okay.
Okay.
Ashley (47:03):
The first enemy is not always the last enemy.
Yeah.
Jonathan (47:06):
Okay.
I'm I I'm not sure what to makeout of Fierro.
I don't see it as a love as aas a love triangle.
I think he's in love withAlphabet.
Mari (47:16):
So Fierro, it's interesting.
In the and like I said, it'sbeen 20 years since I read the
book.
So Kelly rem correct me if youremember.
I thought the the Prince Fierrorole in the book, he was blue.
Kelly (47:30):
Yes.
Mari (47:31):
Yeah.
The people like his where he'sfrom, the land or whatever,
they're blue.
But they didn't make him blue,I don't think, in the musical,
from what I remember.
Ashley (47:39):
No.
Mari (47:39):
Uh and so they adapted that into the movie where he's
not blue.
Which I think adds a little bitof like camaraderie between
them.
That, you know, they're like,oh, they're the only like
weirdly colored people, whereeveryone else is like, I guess a
standard human skin tone, andthen you have like a big thing.
Kelly (47:53):
Well they call him dark skinned with blue diamonds.
Like tattoos.
Right.
Ashley (47:58):
Yeah.
Kelly (47:59):
Interesting.
Mari (47:59):
I thought he did a good job with the the dancing and
stuff, especially like in thelibrary where he's dancing on
the books and everything.
I thought that was really welldone.
Jonathan (48:07):
So yeah.
I'm gonna be interested to seehow his his story, like what his
choices are next.
And then the last person I'mconcerned about is Bach, the the
the boy who is crushing superhard on Glinda but was steered
towards Nessa Rose.
Like it really, I don't know ifit like it was just a f a
(48:30):
fleeting moment on screen whenhe when they were saying goodbye
and she was headed off to theEmerald City, and and he and she
said, I'm gonna get rid of thegh for Dr.
Dilamond.
Um and I'll now just be knownas Glinda instead of Gulinda.
And he like fanboyed over herso hard.
And the camera cut to Narose.
(48:52):
And I think right there she waslike, Yeah.
That's and that that look said,All right, buddy.
Yeah, I see, I see, I see yourtrue colors, and I see like I
was just I'm just status to you.
I'm a I'm a way to climb thethis the ladder, the social, the
social ladder, and I'm notgonna be used that way.
I'm I'm real angry in this inthis case.
(49:15):
So I if you told me that if youtold me that Nessarose has a a
darker side, doesn't ex or or isis manipulated by Madame Marble
and learned some learned somemagic, but it has a dark, has
has her own nefarious plan.
Like I'm oh yeah, I'm gonna geteven.
(49:36):
I'm gonna show you all.
I I I could see that.
Uh Fiero, if you tell me he hasa hard time choosing sides or
or chooses a side and it's notpopular, but his status keeps
him alive, I would believe that.
Outside of that, I'm I'm reallyinterested to see how you can
(49:58):
see how they're the propagandathat's that's that's being spin
machined.
Yeah.
But people who are close toAlphaba, they have to they have
to know you know who this personis.
Mari (50:12):
But what are you gonna do?
I mean, you have to be willingto speak up, and that's the
thing.
Elfie is the one that's willingto speak up.
Jonathan (50:20):
Yeah.
Well, when she found her voice,she found the shit out of that
voice.
Mari (50:24):
So the actress who plays Alphabet is Cynthia Arrivo,
which I don't think I had I knowshe's done some movies, but I
hadn't seen her in any movies.
But I know she's got a reallygood reputation on like like
musicals and plays.
I thought she did a really goodjob as playing Alphabet.
Because I was really worried onwho was gonna play Alphaba
(50:45):
because you gotta be able toemote a lot.
Um I mean, and Dina Menzel kindof set that bar really high,
too.
That was my favorite.
Like I love Adina, and I thinkCynthia did a really good job.
I'm really am looking forwardto how they're gonna portray the
rest of this story in thesecond movie, and it's hard to
(51:05):
hard it's hard to talk about itwithout talking about everything
that's gonna happen, butthere's a lot that's gonna
happen, and I'm curious to seehow they're gonna bring that
together.
Ashley (51:12):
It's impressive too that they're releasing them a year
apart.
Like they've worked really hardto to close those gaps so that
you know it's fresh andavailable and and whatnot for
everyone.
I didn't expect them to releasethe second one literally.
I knew that they had filmed itback to back, but I didn't think
they were gonna release themback to back like that.
(51:32):
That's almost unheard of.
Mari (51:34):
I think I may be misremembering, but I thought at
the end of the first movie itsaid the release date for the
second movie.
Ashley (51:40):
They might have.
I think they planned to bestill impressive.
Mari (51:43):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
It's I think they almost filmedit all concurrently.
Like I think they did a lot ofstuff at the same time.
Ashley (51:49):
Yeah.
No, they did.
They definitely filmed it backto back and they were
transparent about it at somepoint immediately after the
first movie.
But it's to me, it's still justastounding that they
accomplished accomplished thesetwo things in you know, 365
days.
Usually, you know, industrieswill milk it if nothing else.
Mari (52:08):
And they're they'll wait to see if the first one's gonna
be good or get their money backbefore they put money into the
rest of it or a sequel.
Ashley (52:15):
So no, I think they knew.
Mari (52:17):
Yeah.
Ashley (52:18):
There's a lot of big names tied to this.
That's true.
And you know, I think the thethe musical itself is such a a
cult classic in and of itself.
I had not seen the play, and Iwas moved by the movie.
So I think that says a lot, youknow, that they were they I
think they just they had thatfeeling.
Jonathan (52:39):
Well, the the formula has changed.
It used to be build all thesethings to support the movie.
Now the movies the moviebecomes step one.
All right, we have the movie,we have the story.
Now let's bring people to theexperience.
And that's like that's been amodel that um that Disney's been
(53:00):
perfecting and that Universalhas been working on too.
And and I so I I think thateven with there's so many facets
to this story that it's I I thI think of the movies as uh a
stage in in the experience likea step uh in the experience, but
not necessarily the end goal.
Mari (53:20):
Yeah.
So Universal did their wickedexperience, which is located on
the Universal Studios side atUniversal in Orlando.
Um is it in California as well,Kelly?
Do you remember?
Kelly (53:37):
I don't know.
Mari (53:38):
Hmm.
Well, I know it's in Florida,in Orlando.
We've all done it.
So it's basically like thiswalkthrough experience where
actually, before you even getinto the experience, there's a
little food stand outside.
You can get it your little Ozdrink with your green glitter in
it.
Um which I did, and it wasgood.
It was worth worth worth it.
(54:00):
Um and then inside they hadlike different costumes and
things from the movie.
From the movie, yeah.
Yeah, that you could really likeget a good look at it, kind of
see what it looked like in reallife, a little feel for the the
characters, and then they hadlike different things, prop, not
props, but like merchandisingfrom the movie that you could
(54:22):
buy.
I thought that was a fun littlewalkthrough experience.
I mean, you don't it's all partof your regular ticketed park
thing.
You don't have to like payanything extra to go in.
But if you're in the park andyou at all like Wicked, uh if
you're going to Universal, thenplan to do the experience for
sure.
Jonathan (54:38):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go into the
Experience Center, does it ittakes us, if I recall, it takes
us through the journey, likethrough Shiz and then through
okay, and you're in the like youcan step onto the like the
controls of the of the I want tosay the mask, yeah, the wizard
face thing.
And and it's it's it's a story,they tell the story as you go
(55:01):
through the gift shop.
Mari (55:04):
Yeah, and you end up in Oz.
Like that Oz is like the thevery end, yeah.
It takes you from Shiz to Oz,absolutely.
Like it even has like a little3D replica model of of the train
that took them to Oz.
Um and for anyone who doesn'tknow, when they get to Oz and
they there's the whole like showthat tells you the backstory of
(55:24):
the of the grimoire and like ofthe wizard came, like Adina
Menzel, and I cannot rememberthe name of the actress who
played the original Glenn.
Yes, they were like the two uhtwo characters in there who
would like left the prophecyabout the the grimoire.
I don't think I knew they weregonna be in there when I first
(55:47):
surprised.
Yeah.
Ashley (55:49):
I think there were rumors about it, but it was very
unconfirmed and like nobodyknew in what capacity.
Mari (55:54):
Yeah.
Ashley (55:55):
But it was a delightful surprise.
Mari (55:57):
Anything else anybody else wants to bring up before we
come to our final question?
Kelly (56:02):
I think one of the things that I didn't like about the
movie is that they changed someof the musical numbers somewhat
the original Broadway musicalnumbers.
And I would say that I don'tnecessarily like soundtrack for
the movie compared to the musicof the Broadway music.
I think the Broadway musicalnumbers are better.
(56:24):
Maybe it's just because that'swhat I was exposed to first.
Mari (56:27):
So here's the question, and it may be a different answer
for the book versus the musicalversus the movie.
So feel free to give answersfor whatever version or all of
those versions that you want.
Is it a kissing story?
Not everybody go it first.
Kelly (56:43):
I mean, I don't think you can judge it based on the first
movie.
Mari (56:47):
Yeah, because it's half a story.
I think I agree.
Jonathan (56:50):
I agree.
I I I don't have an answer andso if I if I were to say based
on the first one, no, but maybewe need this to be a to be
continued and we'll answer thisafter the second one.
Yeah, I would like that.
Because that's like I'm I'm notsold out on this yet.
Ashley (57:10):
I I want to see the second one, but because we would
have the answer in the book,right?
In the whole book, yes.
Yeah, in the whole first book,right?
Kelly (57:17):
Right.
Mari (57:18):
Okay.
So I agree.
I think we should hold off.
It's like you know half a storyright now, basically.
Right.
Stopped halfway through thebook.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think that's a goodidea.
Anything else about any of thewicked stuff that we want to
talk about before I wrap it up?
Ashley (57:32):
I think you guys did a good a great job.
All right.
Analyzing, going through thestuff, relating it to real time
events.
Mari (57:40):
Events, real life, yeah.
Ashley (57:41):
I was I was trying to find a word.
Mari (57:43):
Events is accurate.
Jonathan (57:44):
We call it depression.
Mari (57:46):
Yeah, anxiety, depression.
Yay.
Everything is fine.
This is fine.
This is fine.
All fine.
Jonathan (57:53):
Just that that meme.
If you're if you are sad anddepressed, tell somebody.
Speak out.
Mari (58:00):
Yeah, talk to someone, reach out, absolutely.
Jonathan (58:03):
And check in on your friends.
Mari (58:04):
Yep.
Yep.
All right.
So wrapping it up, thanks forlistening to us on Swords and
Soulmates.
Before we go, make sure tocheck out the show notes, rate
review, and subscribe to us onyour podcast app of choice.
It helps others to find us andlets us know what you're
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at Of Swords and Soulmates.
(58:25):
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If you'd like to offer asuggestion for a future episode,
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club.
And last but not least, we hopeyou'll join us in two weeks for
our next episode when we willbe talking about the twenty
twenty-five Guillermo del Tororelease Frankenstein.
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