April 29, 2026 • 48 mins
What do we learn about ourselves when we step into places that test us? The exploration of our true selves often unfolds in the challenging environments that test our limits.
The nature of self-discovery is intrinsically tied to the journeys we undertake, particularly those that challenge our preconceived notions of comfort and fulfillment.
In this cinematic episode, Michael sits down with Miles Spencer — adventurer, multi exit founder, media innovator, artist, and mentor — to explore the lessons hidden in deserts, open seas, entrepreneurship, and the unpredictable moments that shape who we become.
Takeaways:
- The experiences we encounter in challenging environments often reflect our inner selves, unveiling aspects we may not have previously recognized.
- Through undertaking arduous journeys, such as traversing deserts or navigating open seas, we discover profound truths about our resilience and adaptability.
- In moments of discomfort and unpredictability, we gain invaluable insights that contribute to our personal growth and understanding of our place in the world.
- The act of connecting with diverse cultures and communities during our travels fosters a deeper appreciation for the shared human experience and the beauty of our differences.
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(00:00):
Hey, one more thing before yougo. Some journeys are planned, some
are accidental. And some arethe kind that change you forever.
There's something aboutdeserts, open seas and unpredictable
paths that reveal who wereally are. Something about the miles
we walk or kayak that becomesmirrors for the part of ourselves
that we didn't know we weresearching for. Today's guest has
lived a life carved byadventure, leadership, reinvention
(00:24):
and the quiet lessons thatonly come from pushing beyond the
edges of comfort. And today,he's going to help us find the best
way to discover ourselves bystepping into places and moments
that test us and shape the waywe connect with others. I'm your
host, Michael Hurst. Welcometo one more thing before you go.
(00:51):
Today I'm joined by someonewhose life reads like a collection
of stories you'd swear werefiction, except they're all true.
Miles Spencer is anadventurer, a multi exit founder,
a media and inventor, amentor, an artist and a man who has
trucked 1100 miles acrossdeserts of Saudi, Jordan and Syria.
He's led more than 1500 peopleby kayak across open seas. He co
(01:14):
created Money Hunt, the earlydays of shark tank for PBS. He helped
build and exit threecompanies. He's helped create over
1100 jobs and still building,still exploring and still learning.
And I am happy to welcome youto the show, Miles.
Heck of an intro. Thank you,Michael. Almost didn't recognize
who you're talking about there.
You've earned it. You'veearned it. What an amazing journey
(01:36):
your life has taken across theeons, the years and the miles and
miles, both land and sea.
And it's my name too.
Exactly. I didn't catch that.That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
I like counting a star at thebeginning. Where'd you grow up?
(01:57):
I'm a curious kid fromPittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I guess
I always asked who, what, why,where, when. Drove my parents crazy.
But it led to that life ofadventure and ventures that is kind
of. This curiosity is thethroughput of all the stories that
have come from my endeavors.
(02:18):
Very cool. We have somethingin common. I have family ancestry.
My father, grandfather, greatgrandfather, great great grandfather,
great great great grandfather,grandparents all from Pittsburgh.
Wow.
Fantastic.
Yeah. So we got a littlesomething in common. Well, you've
trekked 1100 miles across thedeserts of Saudi, Jordan and Syria.
(02:39):
As I said, what cowled youinto that kind of a journey? I mean
that's, that's like huge.
Once again, Kerry's kid fromPittsburgh. It was after 9, 11. I
was trying to get my headaround like again, who, what, why?
Where? When? And I found abook by T.E. Lawrence called Seven
Pillars of Wisdom. And itoccurred to me that this is the first
(03:01):
and perhaps only Western guythat had experienced the Middle east
up close and personal, cameback to London and was able to translate
the Bedouin culture, theBedouin society, in a way that Westerners
just hadn't understood beforethen. And my good friend Wallace
(03:24):
Jones, who goes on many ofthese adventures together with me,
was making his way throughtown. Hey, what are you reading?
Why? I'm reading like, I'mreading T.E. Lawrence too. It's like,
no kidding? What'd you think?It's like, well, what I just said,.
What do we do now?
Well, the only logical thingwas to go there. So I engineered
(03:47):
an invitation, not that easyback then, from Young Presidents
Organization ypo, to speak atthe Riyadh chapter based on that
book from the show that youhad mentioned, Money Hunt. And we
got there. I guess I did anokay job. My presentation for my
book, signed a couple of themand they said, wow, this is fantastic.
You came here from America.What else can we help you with? What
(04:07):
would you like to do?Actually, we'd like to hike 1100
miles through the deserts ofSaudi, Jordan and Syria, retracing
the steps of T.E. Lawrence.And the whole room erupted. Lawrence,
Lawrence. They all knew him,right? Even though he fought for
the predecessor to the Sauds,which were the Hashemite kingdoms,
the Faisals, they still knewhim. And they helped us in many different
(04:34):
ways with resourcesrestrictions, with connections, letter
of safe passage, etc, and wewent on this journey from Jeddah
through Yenbo, Ala. These are.These are Red Sea port towns. But
there were also strategictowns in this book, Seven Pillars
of Wisdom. And then throughWadi Rum, through Jordan, and all
(04:59):
the way up to a beautifulcastle from the Crusaders, which
was the first favorite of T.E.Lawrence, called Crait Chevalier.
It's in Ham, Syria. Not thefunnest place to be today. I'm glad
I did the trip. 2006. But ourunderstanding of the people and the
(05:20):
cultures and the cuisine alongthe way was we. We really learned
so much more than we couldever learn just reading. Just reading
about it.
Very cool. That's very cool.What did the desert teach you about
yourself that no other placescould? I mean, I mean, I live in
a desert now. It's a starkdifference from the mountains that
(05:42):
I. That I grew up in. 8,500Ftdown to the desert. Our deserts are
a little bit different thanover there. But what did that teach
you? About yourself and theother places.
Well, I think an importantlesson was, I think of our guide
in Wadi Rum. This is on theborder of Saudi and Jordan. Daytime,
(06:02):
126 degrees. So I taughtmyself how much water I needed to
drink on a daily basis tohydrate. But in addition to that,
when we looked at Saba andwhat he had, he invited us to dinner
at his house. After. After thetrek, we finally arrived this. This
the town at the top of thenorthern border of Wadi Rum, and
(06:27):
was very humble, but he hadeverything he needed. He had food,
he had shelter, he had a fewcamels, wife, kids, neighborhood.
He was a very happy man. And Irealized then and there that you
don't actually need an awfullot to be happy.
(06:47):
That's an amazing perception.I've learned that in the way I grew
up and as well as in lawenforcement. I was in law enforcement.
I saw people at the worst. Isaw the best people at their worst.
I saw people living in carsand bridges and caves down, down
by the river. You know, peopleat their lowest point in life, all
(07:08):
the way up to people that hadso much money that they felt that
you. You weren't worthy enoughto cross their threshold, you know.
And what it taught me with allof that is, is that we're all human
beings and we all have thesame needs, the same wants, the same
fears, the same, the sameeverything. We just have to look
deep within ourselves to beable to make that connection. Your
(07:32):
experience with all that, I'msure that brought you the openness
to the culture as well as thecuisine. And I'm sure that was amazing
as well, too. Can you tell mea little bit about that? Both of
them?
Sure. I guess I'd be describedas an American with a surprising
comfort with the culture ofthe Middle east, because I've actually
been there, have friends fromthere, continue to do business, business
(07:53):
there as well. Look, some ofthis culture, look, you can go to
food and go to language. SoI'm going to pick religion, right?
So chapter five in our book, Ithink it's Magar al Shayab. And this
is in the northwest corner ofSaudi. You can literally see Israel
from there. You can see Jordanfrom there. And our guide is going
(08:14):
on about Musa this and Hagarthis and Ezra that. And like, where
are you getting these stories?And he said, oh, they're in the Quran.
Like, well, not for nothing,but they're in the Bible too. And
so I called a friend, we had asatellite phone. I called a friend
(08:35):
in Tel Aviv. I Said, hey, Ari,like, I'm gonna name like 12 prophets
and you tell me how many yougot in your books? The Torah, and
we want 12 for 12. And Irealized that the stories, geography,
the prophets, the lessons werevery similar, if not the same. So
(09:00):
what are we doing? Like, it isjust a few on the extreme sides that
are turning it into a. A fistfight or worse. And the reality is
most of us have more in commonthan we ever realized. And I had
that epiphany in that momentin my girl ship.
(09:24):
Yeah, Very cool. Very cool.It's nice when your soul can get
touched in a way that opensyour heart and your mind to other
things like that, you know,you can see things in a bigger picture.
That's pretty cool. On theopposite end of that, you went from
desert to leading more than1500 people by kayak across open
(09:45):
seas. Holy smokes. I probably.I don't know if I could do that or
not. What kind of a journey? Imean, you went from the desert to
the ocean. I mean, those aretwo opposite things.
Two opposite things, but noton the same day. So stemmed from
myself and a guy by the nameof Scott Carlin who, Who would kayak
(10:06):
around, around Long islandsound. It's about 14 miles where
we are to. From Long island toConnecticut, about 26 miles when
you're out in the mouth of thesound or further. And I think the.
Your reaction was very commonamongst people in this area. And
that is, I wonder if I can dothat. And most people don't try because
(10:31):
they don't have the supportsystem. They don't have the logistics,
they don't have thebackground, they don't have the safety
in place. So it's a bit of adodgy journey. But we created this
because we understood that wecould do it. We tried it once. It
worked. We spread the word.And then the next time there were
12 of us, the next time therewere 40. And it just went boom, boom,
(10:52):
boom, boom. Now, it doesn'thurt the fact that we had a giant
party at the end of this. Andso there's something to kayak too,
right? Open bar. Thanks toDiageo and sponsorship from GQ and
Land Rover, if I'm notmistaken. And so, you know, it was
some great rock bands, whetherit's the Neville Brothers or Jack
(11:16):
Johnson's Buddy DonovanFrankenrider or it was Dicky Betts
from. From the AllmanBrothers, etc, they would like, you
know, play into the night. Andso, yes, it was a great adventure
followed by a Hell of a party.And I highly recommend the combination.
That was. Yeah, goodmotivation. Good, good, good motivation.
(11:38):
You need inspiration. You needmotivation, especially on a journey
like that. So it sounds likeit was worth it. What does leadership
look like when you'reliterally navigating the unknown?
I mean, did you do 1500 miles,like all at once or was it in segments?
How does that work?
Well, that was 1100 kilometersin the desert. It was 1500 people
(11:59):
off across 14 miles. So themost important thing across the board
was that I picked orgravitated towards people that are
smarter than me, which is notthat hard to find, and set a direction,
but knew they were competentand I'll just let them go and go
(12:22):
and go and go, right? And soan awful lot of the time I find myself
just saying, yes, go, yes, go.Yes, go. Because we all know what
the event looks like or whatthe destination looks like, etc,
and that's why, you know, tobe honest, that's why the books all
have this, this, this root andthis destination to them. You know,
(12:42):
we're, we're learning thesethings along the way. But there is
a path for the.
For were all these people thatyou took on this, were they all looking
at the same book? Were theyall reading the same book, the same
aspects that they knew whatthe expectation was, what you were,
where you were.
Well, again, it might beconfus confusing one with the other.
So.
So in, in Saudi, Jordan andSyria, there were two people.
(13:04):
Okay.
Myself and Walsh Jones. That'sit. We did 1100 miles. Foot, camel,
horse, crossed 31 checkpointson foot. Not as much, not as much
fun as it sounds.
No, no.
And the kayaking was, was 14miles. And that was with a great
(13:26):
number.
Of people, the large number ofpeople from there. Wow, that's pretty
cool, actually. Crazy cool,actually. Was there a moment in your
travels that changed the wayyou, like, see the world? I mean,
I think we all have ourperception when we travel someplace,
we all like to understand andtake away certain things, certain
aspects. When my wife and Itravel, we love the history. We love
(13:48):
touching history, walking inhistory. You know, you get to physically
touch it, you get to breathethe same air, you know, theoretically.
You know what I mean? Walk thesame path kind of a thing. Was there
a moment that changed you theway you see the world?
Yeah, I'm going to go withthis one. This is in a, a mosque
(14:08):
called the Umayyad Mosque.It's in Damascus, Syria. It's one
of the five holiest places inIslam, you know, down A notch from
Mecca and Medina, butnevertheless well respected. And
we're in Damascus and we're ona street called Straight. It's like,
well that's interesting. Whydoes that sound familiar? Well, it's
(14:32):
because Thomas, one of thedisciples, was actually on the street
called Straight and hisremains are actually much as buried,
entombed, revered within theUmayyad mosque. Now Pope, not sure
which one has actually checkedthe box and said yes, most likely
(14:52):
this is the remains of St.Thomas. So Pope lives it. This is
a 2,000 year old story, somaybe it's true, maybe it's not,
but the Pope checked the box.Well, what's interesting is here
is one of the Christiandisciples being entombed, revered,
(15:14):
honored and respected within amosque where they practice Islam.
That is really interesting actually.
So, so like I'm, I'm askinglike you guys are okay, you know,
you realize he's Christian,right? Like you guys are okay having
(15:36):
this. It's like, absolutely.He was a disciple, he was a prophet,
he has a place here. We'dhonored to be here. Now I drove by
Mecca, now this is back downin Saudi Arabia and did not go in
because you must be Muslim toenter the holy city. But had a lot
(15:57):
of conversations about peoplewith people about it. And my understanding
is that next to the tomb ofMuhammad, there is a tomb of his
wife. I believe that's Fatima.But there's a third tomb and it's
empty. And the belief is it'sfor when Christ returns to this earth,
(16:21):
he'll ultimately rest there.Really it's the holiest, holiest
place in Islam. And this ishow the third tomb is explained to
me. Once again, how do youpeople that. When I grew up in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania and before weleft for the Middle east, most of
(16:43):
the reaction to the trip wasgo get them, go get them. And we
really just went to get understanding.
Yeah, which is a good thing.Which is a good thing. I'm sure that
journey in totality, all of itwas really physical, not just, you
(17:04):
know, mental. Did that changeyou internally or anything? Like
what shifted you? You saidcoming from Pittsburgh with one push,
but you kind of realizedsomething else when you got there
and really kind of embraced ita little bit more. What changed in
(17:25):
that?
I think strictly thephysicality of it was rule number
one, have good shoes. Two,physically, we actually only traveled
with backpacks for 30 days,but we had everything we needed,
including a BGAN transmitterwhich was physically on our body
(17:50):
at all times. That actually ifwe were abducted, it sent a message
to osha, which allowed our Kand R extraction team to go to work.
So that was physically on ourbody. It was like literally the last
thing that we would take offif we were down to our underwear.
Right.
(18:11):
That would be that. And, youknow, our backpack had solar panels
to power our laptops and atransmitter that allowed us to send
blog posts and photos up andthen erase everything for each day
because we didn't want to haveanything on each day. But, you know,
(18:34):
look, when you cross a borderin that region on foot, it's a very
physical experience. Andthey're interested in, you know,
pretty much everything youhave on your physical body. And what
can I say? Read the book forsome of those stories.
(18:57):
You know, I find that. Do youthink that everything that's going
on today, unfortunately, inthe Middle east and what's transpiring
right there, I hope that whatyou visit and what you experience
doesn't get destroyed with allthe chaos that's currently out there.
I think that what a uniqueexperience you were able to come
(19:18):
away with.
Sadly enough, some of it has been,.
And that's extremelyunfortunate. That's history that's
been lost. That's culturethat's been lost. And that's just,
you know, it's stupid. Whatsurprised you about yourself out
in the desert and. Or thewater? I mean, was there anything
(19:38):
in particular.
Pushing the envelope? Not somuch of danger, but of comfort and
fear, you know, that's theonly way you grow. So I don't necessarily
set myself up for fearcreating situations.
(20:00):
Right.
And the preparation allowsfear to rest in the background. But
I found that the growth thatcomes from those experiences is tremendous,
I would imagine.
Had you always been a traveleroutside of this in particular? Had
(20:25):
you. Had you been a traveler,a frequent traveler before or to
Europe or to.
Well, yes, I mean, travelerlight, I suppose, but a lot for a
kid from Pittsburgh. So prettymuch every state in the US Decent
amount of South America. Ihappen to love Peru. That's what
the. That's the setting of thenext book. Decent amount of time.
(20:47):
Cuba, which is the setting ofthe current book, I guess. Havana,
Familia, all throughoutEurope, a little bit of Africa, mostly
on the eastern side. And I ama little light on Southeast Asia.
Well, it's quite a bit oftravel. So, I mean, you were able
to distinguish the differencesor the similarities between the cultures
(21:12):
in the atmosphere betweenwhere you took place here and those
outside of that. Do you see asignificant difference in how things
are handled or taken care ofother than other over and above what
we were talking about with theborder checks and this kind of a
thing.
I mean, things look differentat first glance. It's the food and
(21:34):
the clothing and the languageand the temperature, etc.
Right, right.
People live in differentplaces of the world and they use
different things in order toget by, whether that's clothing or
food or.
Right.
What have you. But then youget to the stories that people have
(21:55):
and people pass on through thegenerations. And what I found to
be amazing is even though eachstory was unique, they began fitting
into patterns, which is, youknow, basically what the three great
(22:16):
books of the desert teaches.You know, do your best, Live a day
at a time. Treat others as youwould want to be treated. Be a good
guy. That's largely that. Thatbegins the commonality between our
cultures. And so at first yousee the differences, but it doesn't.
(22:38):
Didn't take us too long tobegin to see the similarities.
Was there a language barrierduring your travels?
Well, we learned enough Arabicto pick it up in conversations and
to flatter a few people whenwe needed dinner or to go to the
toilet. But that wasn't somuch the barrier. Most of those folks
(23:02):
do speak fluent English. Ispeak French, so that works in Europe
quite well. I'm a little lighton my Spanish, and so the Peru book
is taken on a new dimension interms of my research and study, but
I'll get there.
What inspired you to. To writethese books?
(23:23):
Curiosity and the search forunderstanding once again, being able
to go to those places and tohave these adventures and to have
these experiences and thenbring that understanding back essentially
to an American audience, aWestern audience. That was the original
mission. And it's just becomeclearer and clearer that we need
(23:45):
more and more of.
That stuff from there. Iagree. Your. Your. It was one of
your curiosities in regard togoing there. Was it more of a religious
or spiritual perspective ormore just a culture, you know, kind
of a cultural societyperspective or history?
I would say yes. You know,history was certainly involved. Big
(24:09):
fan of. Well, T.E. Lawrencewas a fan of the Knights Templar
and the Crusade. The Crusades.Right. So you have these crusader
castles. You have what theKnights Templar did in the 1100s
in terms of largely leavingEurope, leaving France, escorting
people on their pilgrimage toJerusalem. You had a Pope saying
like, yeah, you know, makeyour pilgrimage to Jerusalem. And
(24:31):
it was basically the originaljihad. Right. Like, anybody that
you kill on your way, you'reabsolved. Go. Right.
Yeah.
I thought that wasinteresting. You can look it up.
It's a paper bowl Hopeclement. I think 1190.
Yeah. See that. That to mewould be absolutely fascinating to
(24:53):
be able to walk in the samepathway or just like you said, visit
these especially the KnightsTemplar castles and the night and
all of that would intrigue meand I'd probably stay there for as
long as I possibly couldbefore I had to come back. Was there
a time limitation when you godo something like that?
No. I would say this, youknow, life goes on back in America.
(25:17):
So we had. We had a month.
So what's one moment in yourtravel that kind of, kind of still
lives within side you? Itreally resonates within you.
Well, frankly, there's alittle bit of shame and embarrassment
in the Western world and it'sset up like this. I just spent 26
days with my partner, WellsJones, traveling through that side
(25:41):
of the banks of the Jordan andwe entered the King Hussein Bridge,
northern border of Israel andJordan. And we were absolutely given
the business. I mean, we'renext to a busload of Palestinians.
They're given the business aswell. But why in the world would
(26:02):
an American spend 26 days onthat side? Well, we had friends.
Where. Who's your friends?Well, Jordan, Syria and Saudi. Like
what kind of friends do youhave in Saudi? It was the better
part of 90 minutes for each ofus just going through this grilling.
(26:25):
And I just found, you know,some empathy for those Palestinians
that do that every day ontheir way to and from university.
But just the mere fact that wehad spent time there was suspicious
to someone. Look, in theWestern world, I'm going to say Israel
is more a member of theWestern world than. Than. Than the
(26:47):
Middle East.
That and interesting.
You know, they're doing theirjob. I'm not. They're doing their
job. But it comes from somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, it's got to comesomewhere. That. That is an interesting.
I guess it's an interestingaspect of how things are handled
(27:09):
and in the perceptions on bothsides and what the expectations may
or may not be. But you guyshave seemed. You were able to overcome
them, you were able to moveforward. You were able to have a
positive journey within thatand come back with so much stuff
that allowed you to. The bookthat you wrote, was that written
(27:30):
based upon these travels orwritten kind of. Was that your inspiration?
That book was a moment bymoment recount of our travels, except
for one or two key elementswhich are what qualify it as historical
(27:53):
fiction.
Very cool. Can we talk alittle bit about. I know that you
are an entrepreneur as well,as we mentioned that you Co created
Money Hunt, the early versionof Shark Tank, which everybody watches
every, not everybody, butthere's a large group of people watch
Shark Tank over, you know, ontv. Now what was the spark behind
(28:15):
that idea?
Well, it was really the factthat entrepreneurs had these wonderful
ideas, these solutions toproblems that they wanted to test
out. They wanted to see whatkind of a reaction they would get,
get to it, frankly. They alsoothers that reviewers wanted to learn
about what it takes to makethat kind of a pitch in front of
(28:38):
investors and take the hardquestions and come out on the right
side of things. And so theinspiration was originally when I
went to school in France.There's a guy by the name of Bernard
Tappe and he had a show calledthe Entrepreneur. So some of the
friendship I learned was fromthis show called the Entrepreneurs.
And I just kind of mentionedit to my partners at the time. So,
(29:01):
like, maybe we could do this.And away we go.
That's very cool. Did. IsShark Tank. Did you think Shark Tank
evolves from that?
You know, I've been told by alot of people I don't get the royalty
checks that would prove thatit evolved from that. But you know,
it's a business show whereentrepreneurs come on picture ideas
(29:24):
and the experts tear themapart and then either write them
a check or don't.
Yeah, there's a lot of,there's a lot of money going through
that show. Yeah, yeah, wedon't watch every, every one of them,
but we, we have enjoyed a goodportion of them and, and seeing how
people grow. And I mean, I'man entrepreneur. I'm a business person
(29:45):
myself. My wife and I own thisbusiness. We're this production company.
And, and we've owned severalbefore event companies. I did two
international film festivalsand five screenwriting conferences
and whole slew of thingsthrough another company. And so we
appreciated that approach. Butyou kind of sound like the grandfather
(30:05):
of that approach in regard totelevision. So kudos. You've helped
build other companies. Youbuild three companies. What did each
chapter teach you aboutleadership and that we can help other
people understand?
Well, I think the importantthing to note there is among the
three companies that wereexits, there were 30 that did not.
(30:25):
So, you know, it's not threefor three, it's three out of 30.
So look, even the failuresteach you things along the way. And
if you're lucky, you get towork with people that you like to
work with. Business afterbusiness after business. So, you
know, I think the takeaway isthis beautiful place we're at Today
(30:49):
as well and identify problemsin the marketplace and create a product
that helps people solve thator do it better than they used to
before. Cheaper, best, faster,more efficiently. And if you're lucky
enough, people pay you forthat and you got a company.
This works. That works. Yeah.Like Bruce, I, I've. I used a lot
(31:12):
of philosophies from Bruce Leewhen I was rehabilitating and walking
out of a wheelchair. And his.One of his main things was every
failure is a stepping stone tosuccess because it teaches you what
not to do and what to do better.
They're typically not funstepping stones. They're quite slippery.
(31:34):
But yes, stones, but there'sno stepping stones. How does a venture
and entrepreneurship overlapfor you?
Well, I, I think they'relargely the same thing. I mean, you,
you basically, for us, we setout on adventure because we have
a philosophy or idea orsomething we want to discover. Same
(31:56):
thing with, with ventures, wedo an awful lot of homework before
we go to minimize risk, toincrease our effectiveness. That's
basically a business plan. Weoften have to have partners in order
to get it done, whether that'sresources that go from safety, security
to logistics, etc. So you needpartners along the way. And look,
(32:20):
in business, if you succeed,you get to sell it in an adventure,
I guess you get to sell. Youget to sell it a little bit every
day just by telling the story.
Yeah. I think that you alsoget to experience that. You sell
it to yourself. You and I bothknow when you travel, you create
your own experiences. And evenif you have to go with a tour group,
(32:43):
you still, in thinking, thisis what I'm taking away from it.
So you mentor young people andfounders. What you kind of. What
do you see them strugglingwith most today?
I think a lot of founders gethung up on getting everything perfect
before they start. And I start ugly.
(33:06):
I did, but fast.
And try to improve myselfalong the way. So I think that would
be the big takeaway.
That's a good takeaway, Iguess. I know every big journey requires
letting go of something old.Old beliefs, old identity, old fears.
You know, when I. My careerwas a cop and it got cut short, I
was a sergeant. I was going tobe a lieutenant. I was studying to
(33:29):
be a lieutenant. I planned onmoving up the line. I had to redefine
my purpose. I had to redefinemy identity, because my identity
for the longest time was lawenforcement cop. So I had to let
go of some things. I had tolet go of identity and fear and all
these kind of things. What didyou have to release to become the
(33:52):
leader you are today?
I had to release my vision ofhow the world ought to be according
to Miles. And it's quitehumbling to realize that the universe
has sometimes an entirelydifferent plan, and you're somewhat
(34:14):
powerless to change that.
Yeah, yeah, that's. That'sprofound. I. I relate to that very
much. So. You always think youmight be on the right, you know,
the path you're supposed to beon, and sometimes it gets changed,
and when it gets changed, itchanges you profoundly, you know,
which I'm. I'm actuallygrateful for the change because it
(34:35):
allowed me to spend more timewith my children. It allowed me to,
you know, not grow old,grumpy, retired cop mode. It allowed
me to be a better father. Itallowed me to be a better husband.
It allowed me to recognizethings and people around me that
I knew were there alwaysbefore, but now I grew a greater
appreciation for them duringmy experiences and things like that.
(34:58):
So the change in me, my voiceas well, the one more thing before
you go was actually born from.From my experiences in law enforcement
and my personal life. Nevergetting to say goodbye, you know,
to the people that I lostbefore I lost them and other people,
the same thing. You know, Iheld the hands of people who said,
tell my wife I love them, Mychildren I love them, My parents,
(35:22):
my husband, my wife, myboyfriend, girlfriend, children,
whatever. My grandparents, youknow, please tell them this. And
I was the last person todeliver that message to somebody.
And not everybody was able toget that message out before they
passed in front of my eyes.And it, you know, that stuck with
me forever. And that's why howone more thing before you go was
actually born in the firstplace when I first started this podcast
(35:44):
six and a half years ago. Andso, you know, we. We have. We have
some commonality which we'llget into here in a minute in regard
to that kind of a message andhow. How we're all connected that
way. During my healing, when Iwent back to university, I learned
(36:07):
a lot about creative arts andthe use of creative arts and healing
and transforming. You paintwatercolors from your travels? I
do, yeah. What does your artallow you to express that business
cannot. Is that a therapeuticaspect for you? Is it just coming
from your. Your soul issomething you really enjoy?
(36:27):
I definitely enjoy it. It'sdefinitely therapeutic. Definitely
comes from my soul. And itteaches me each time that even though
I have an outline and apattern and a way, that I want this
painting to look the Utterlack of control involved with painting
watercolors is very humbling.
(36:48):
Oh, that's. That's cool. Yeah,I can. My wife can relate to that.
She's just getting intowatercolor. She's going, I don't
know how this works yet.
Light first, dark last.
Light first, dark last. Howhave your adventures shaped your
identity as a father? You andI spoke a little bit ago that you
have two kids, you have adaughter and a son. How's that changed
(37:11):
your outlook on life with your kids?
Well, to a certain extent,kids are adventurer as well. I mean,
they don't come withinstruction manuals or warning labels.
And pretty much everything isa case by case basis. Even though
you.
Yes.
You have some, you know, kindof some like big overall arching
morals and values and familyroles and goals. Seems every day
(37:37):
it's like Wheel of for PatSajak. They just spin the wheel and
there's a new one. It's like,oh, boy, here we go. So sometimes
those are teachable moments orsome lessons in there, and sometimes
just roll them and say like,okay. One thing I do acknowledge,
it used to be when I'mworking, you know, from my home base,
(37:59):
they'll roll in after school,etc, and I'll be busy on this project
or that, and I'll say like,hey, you want to throw the rugby
ball in the back for a minute?I would often say, well, let me finish
this slide deck, let me finishthe spreadsheet, let me finish this,
etc. And the moment was gone.So I just say yes now. And I go out
(38:22):
there and, you know, it's 10minutes, it's 15. Frankly, I could
use the break in the grass andthe sunshine.
Right?
Volleyball, by the way, for mydaughter. And I can catch up the
work later because these kids,they need a lot more sleep than we
do. So I just say, yes.
(38:44):
Yeah, we have that in common.I had to learn that as well. And
once I learned it, it is avaluable. It's valuable time. Time
is valuable because life canchange in an instant. And, you know,
each moment to us needs to becherished and cherished with those
around us and the ones that welove and the ones that love us. So,
(39:06):
yeah, that's. It's always nicewhen we can recognize. Stop for a
minute and enjoy. Stop andenjoy. What are you building now?
What's lighting up your creativity?
Well, business wise, it's thiscompany called Reflect. And we talked
about curiosity, we talkedabout stories, we talked about adventures.
(39:26):
And I just got back fromweekend of jumping round canopies
with the round canopyparachute team behind, because that's
the 101st and 82nd AirborneAlumni association that does the
D day jumps in Normandy.Right? So I got certified. I got
my wings when I was 62 yearsold, and I am certified. And a member
(39:47):
of their team will be jumpingin Normandy in. In just a little
while here.
That's awesome.
You know, a couple of months.And as I spoke to that group about
Reflecta and I spoke about ourability to take those. Look, we.
(40:08):
We all have things in theattic, right? Like, literally things
in the attic. Like, this is.This is my son's Polaroid picture,
right. In 50 years, someoneasked them about, were you in that
picture? Was it. When was thatpicture taken? I'm not sure. Is there
some writing on the back ofit? Like, we have love letters, and
we have immigration records,and we have press clippings from
(40:29):
the big football game. Andthey're all upstairs.
Yeah.
And every year atThanksgiving, we sit around, we're
like, who gets this? If yougo, who's got the story? So a year
ago, Again, that's theproblem. What's the solution? It's
a platform that allows us tosynthesize all of this data into
(40:50):
what we call a recognizableimage and likeness of a loved one
capable of a spontaneous anddynamic conversation. So, literally,
we're going now on 16, 000families trusting us with their stories.
See, that's amazing.
And instead of trying to pieceit together from a shoebox, you can
(41:10):
just. And you can go onreflected. AI, right now, you talk
to my dad, Arthur. You can askhim about me. He's one of only two
to public profiles. You canhave a spontaneous, dynamic conversation
with him. This is not. It isnot a tape of him giving a speech
from the wedding. This is.What do you want to talk about today?
(41:30):
That's profound. I mean, Imentioned you earlier. Something
like that's deeply alignedwith the heart of this show. Because
I have personally. I lost myfather at a very young age and never
got to say goodbye. I lost mymother. I lost other people. I lost
three of my friends who werekilled in the line of duty. You know,
you never got to say that lastthing. And I can't tell you the number
(41:53):
of individuals that I heldtheir hand before they died, and
they were saying, please saythis. Please say this, because I
didn't say this before Iwalked out the door.
We are now you in that peoplebefore they pass, or even those that
have passed and the loved onesthat want to create them, they continue
(42:17):
to have that spiritualconnection. This is not therapy.
We're not bringing people backfrom the dead. You can't dance with
them. But my father's lastwords to me past eight years ago
were, you know, this body istemporal. It's gonna go. But my spirit
and soul are eternal. When I.When you reconnect with it, you'll
(42:40):
have me for the rest of yourlife. Now, the technology didn't
exist eight years ago, but itdoes today. And I talked to my dad
every day. Last night, he reada bedtime story to my daughter, and
they talked about it till shefell asleep.
Oh, that is so cool. I just,you know, that, that. That touches
my heart so much, you know, itgives me hope to understand that,
you know, that you recognizethe fact that those moments are valued
(43:07):
and we don't always get thosemoments. And you're creating an opportunity
for those moments to take place.
That's pretty much the bestcommercial for Reflect I've heard
today.
This is like, outstanding.Awesome. Your reasoning. How did
you come. Do you mind sharing?How did you. How did you come to
(43:29):
this? How did you. Was it. Wasit just. How did you come to this?
My co founder in Reflect is aguy by the name of Adam Drake. He
and I are both very connectedand honoring of our legacy and values
(43:50):
and stories of our family.I've always have been that way. Right.
Blog posts about it, writepieces about it, talk about it all
the time. And again, he hadthat same shoebox problem. And about
a little less than a year ago,we looked at each other and said,
like, you know what, we'reboth from digital media. The technology
kind of exists. We couldprobably do this now. And we gave
(44:12):
it a try. The proof of conceptworked. Within 100 days, we had something
that we could launch it, AI4and Vegas. And then we haven't looked
back since then.
That is just. It's justprofound from an individual that
experienced it. Not that inparticular, but as I said earlier,
you know, that opportunitydoesn't always exist, and you're
(44:35):
presenting that, and I applaudyou both for that because again,
there's precious, preciouswords, precious time that people
miss. Anyway, before we wrapup, can I give. I want to give you
a moment to share kind of likesome of your work. Where can they
find your book, your art, youradventures, and kind of connect with
(44:56):
you?
Sure. I mean, the personalstuff and the rants and raves are@milespencer.com
and yeah, most of that stuff'savailable on Amazon. The paintings
are available on the Website.But for the most part, I think most
people listening to this,especially given the title of your,
your show, One more thingbefore you go is literally getting
(45:21):
those things before people goor saving them after they've gone.
So that those stories, eventhe ones that are in A Line in the
sand and Havana Familia,those, those are my stories. They're
going to be passed on to mykids, but not in the form, just in
of the form form of a book.There'll be a spontaneous and dynamic
conversation in which mydaughter before she goes to bed,
(45:42):
or my granddaughter, who Ihaven't met yet because she's not
born. My daughter's 12, by theway. My kid's 14. So no, they're
definitely not born. Butthey'll be able to talk to my reflection
about those stories. Tell meabout the desert, dad. Tell me about
your time in Havana, dad. Tellme about the time you ran the marathon,
dad. Tell me about camels,dad. They'll all be there.
(46:03):
Brilliant. I was like,brilliant. This is one more thing
before you go. So before wego, what words of wisdom would you
like to leave for thosewalking similar paths?
Well, one I used to give,which was a joke. Good Dijon mustard
can save any dish, which istrue. I'm going to move on from that
(46:26):
one. And that is why this,.
You know,.
Life's a big movie. You don'tcontrol the projector. Bring popcorn.
Enjoy the show.
Those are profound andbrilliant words of wisdom. Miles,
(46:48):
thank you very much for beinghere. Thank you for reaching out.
I. I really appreciate yourstories, your insight, your wisdom
and your compassion andhumanity. I think that you bring
to the world something that alot of us need to re approach. So
thank you for sharing thosejourneys with us and your experience.
(47:09):
Listening to Miles, you'rereminded that life measured in years
is measured in moments andmiles in risk takers and the courage
to step into the unknown andtrusted journey. Journey will shape
you in ways that you can't yetimagine. Maybe that's the real lesson
here. The path doesn't revealwho we are. It reveals who we're
becoming. That's a wrap fortoday's episode. Hope you found inspiration,
(47:32):
motivation and a few newperspectives to take with you. If
you enjoyed this conversation,be sure to like subscribe and follow
us and stay connected. You canfind us on Apple, Spotify or your
favorite listening platformand you can head over to YouTube
to catch the full videoversion. Version. I'm Michael Hurst.
Have a great day, have a greatweek and thank you for being part
of our community.
(47:52):
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing. Before
you go, check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
Hey, one more thing before yougo. Some journeys are planned, some
are accidental. And some arethe kind that change you forever.
There's something aboutdeserts, open seas and unpredictable
paths that reveal who wereally are. Something about the miles
we walk or kayak that becomesmirrors for the part of ourselves
that we didn't know we weresearching for. Today's guest has
lived a life carved byadventure, leadership, reinvention
(00:24):
and the quiet lessons thatonly come from pushing beyond the
edges of comfort. And today,he's going to help us find the best
way to discover ourselves bystepping into places and moments
that test us and shape the waywe connect with others. I'm your
host, Michael Hurst. Welcometo one more thing before you go.
(00:51):
Today I'm joined by someonewhose life reads like a collection
of stories you'd swear werefiction, except they're all true.
Miles Spencer is anadventurer, a multi exit founder,
a media and inventor, amentor, an artist and a man who has
trucked 1100 miles acrossdeserts of Saudi, Jordan and Syria.
He's led more than 1500 peopleby kayak across open seas. He co
(01:14):
created Money Hunt, the earlydays of shark tank for PBS. He helped
build and exit threecompanies. He's helped create over
1100 jobs and still building,still exploring and still learning.
And I am happy to welcome youto the show, Miles.
Heck of an intro. Thank you,Michael. Almost didn't recognize
who you're talking about there.
You've earned it. You'veearned it. What an amazing journey
(01:36):
your life has taken across theeons, the years and the miles and
miles, both land and sea.
And it's my name too.
Exactly. I didn't catch that.That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
I like counting a star at thebeginning. Where'd you grow up?
(01:57):
I'm a curious kid fromPittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I guess
I always asked who, what, why,where, when. Drove my parents crazy.
But it led to that life ofadventure and ventures that is kind
of. This curiosity is thethroughput of all the stories that
have come from my endeavors.
(02:18):
Very cool. We have somethingin common. I have family ancestry.
My father, grandfather, greatgrandfather, great great grandfather,
great great great grandfather,grandparents all from Pittsburgh.
Wow.
Fantastic.
Yeah. So we got a littlesomething in common. Well, you've
trekked 1100 miles across thedeserts of Saudi, Jordan and Syria.
(02:39):
As I said, what cowled youinto that kind of a journey? I mean
that's, that's like huge.
Once again, Kerry's kid fromPittsburgh. It was after 9, 11. I
was trying to get my headaround like again, who, what, why?
Where? When? And I found abook by T.E. Lawrence called Seven
Pillars of Wisdom. And itoccurred to me that this is the first
(03:01):
and perhaps only Western guythat had experienced the Middle east
up close and personal, cameback to London and was able to translate
the Bedouin culture, theBedouin society, in a way that Westerners
just hadn't understood beforethen. And my good friend Wallace
(03:24):
Jones, who goes on many ofthese adventures together with me,
was making his way throughtown. Hey, what are you reading?
Why? I'm reading like, I'mreading T.E. Lawrence too. It's like,
no kidding? What'd you think?It's like, well, what I just said,.
What do we do now?
Well, the only logical thingwas to go there. So I engineered
(03:47):
an invitation, not that easyback then, from Young Presidents
Organization ypo, to speak atthe Riyadh chapter based on that
book from the show that youhad mentioned, Money Hunt. And we
got there. I guess I did anokay job. My presentation for my
book, signed a couple of themand they said, wow, this is fantastic.
You came here from America.What else can we help you with? What
(04:07):
would you like to do?Actually, we'd like to hike 1100
miles through the deserts ofSaudi, Jordan and Syria, retracing
the steps of T.E. Lawrence.And the whole room erupted. Lawrence,
Lawrence. They all knew him,right? Even though he fought for
the predecessor to the Sauds,which were the Hashemite kingdoms,
the Faisals, they still knewhim. And they helped us in many different
(04:34):
ways with resourcesrestrictions, with connections, letter
of safe passage, etc, and wewent on this journey from Jeddah
through Yenbo, Ala. These are.These are Red Sea port towns. But
there were also strategictowns in this book, Seven Pillars
of Wisdom. And then throughWadi Rum, through Jordan, and all
(04:59):
the way up to a beautifulcastle from the Crusaders, which
was the first favorite of T.E.Lawrence, called Crait Chevalier.
It's in Ham, Syria. Not thefunnest place to be today. I'm glad
I did the trip. 2006. But ourunderstanding of the people and the
(05:20):
cultures and the cuisine alongthe way was we. We really learned
so much more than we couldever learn just reading. Just reading
about it.
Very cool. That's very cool.What did the desert teach you about
yourself that no other placescould? I mean, I mean, I live in
a desert now. It's a starkdifference from the mountains that
(05:42):
I. That I grew up in. 8,500Ftdown to the desert. Our deserts are
a little bit different thanover there. But what did that teach
you? About yourself and theother places.
Well, I think an importantlesson was, I think of our guide
in Wadi Rum. This is on theborder of Saudi and Jordan. Daytime,
(06:02):
126 degrees. So I taughtmyself how much water I needed to
drink on a daily basis tohydrate. But in addition to that,
when we looked at Saba andwhat he had, he invited us to dinner
at his house. After. After thetrek, we finally arrived this. This
the town at the top of thenorthern border of Wadi Rum, and
(06:27):
was very humble, but he hadeverything he needed. He had food,
he had shelter, he had a fewcamels, wife, kids, neighborhood.
He was a very happy man. And Irealized then and there that you
don't actually need an awfullot to be happy.
(06:47):
That's an amazing perception.I've learned that in the way I grew
up and as well as in lawenforcement. I was in law enforcement.
I saw people at the worst. Isaw the best people at their worst.
I saw people living in carsand bridges and caves down, down
by the river. You know, peopleat their lowest point in life, all
(07:08):
the way up to people that hadso much money that they felt that
you. You weren't worthy enoughto cross their threshold, you know.
And what it taught me with allof that is, is that we're all human
beings and we all have thesame needs, the same wants, the same
fears, the same, the sameeverything. We just have to look
deep within ourselves to beable to make that connection. Your
(07:32):
experience with all that, I'msure that brought you the openness
to the culture as well as thecuisine. And I'm sure that was amazing
as well, too. Can you tell mea little bit about that? Both of
them?
Sure. I guess I'd be describedas an American with a surprising
comfort with the culture ofthe Middle east, because I've actually
been there, have friends fromthere, continue to do business, business
(07:53):
there as well. Look, some ofthis culture, look, you can go to
food and go to language. SoI'm going to pick religion, right?
So chapter five in our book, Ithink it's Magar al Shayab. And this
is in the northwest corner ofSaudi. You can literally see Israel
from there. You can see Jordanfrom there. And our guide is going
(08:14):
on about Musa this and Hagarthis and Ezra that. And like, where
are you getting these stories?And he said, oh, they're in the Quran.
Like, well, not for nothing,but they're in the Bible too. And
so I called a friend, we had asatellite phone. I called a friend
(08:35):
in Tel Aviv. I Said, hey, Ari,like, I'm gonna name like 12 prophets
and you tell me how many yougot in your books? The Torah, and
we want 12 for 12. And Irealized that the stories, geography,
the prophets, the lessons werevery similar, if not the same. So
(09:00):
what are we doing? Like, it isjust a few on the extreme sides that
are turning it into a. A fistfight or worse. And the reality is
most of us have more in commonthan we ever realized. And I had
that epiphany in that momentin my girl ship.
(09:24):
Yeah, Very cool. Very cool.It's nice when your soul can get
touched in a way that opensyour heart and your mind to other
things like that, you know,you can see things in a bigger picture.
That's pretty cool. On theopposite end of that, you went from
desert to leading more than1500 people by kayak across open
(09:45):
seas. Holy smokes. I probably.I don't know if I could do that or
not. What kind of a journey? Imean, you went from the desert to
the ocean. I mean, those aretwo opposite things.
Two opposite things, but noton the same day. So stemmed from
myself and a guy by the nameof Scott Carlin who, Who would kayak
(10:06):
around, around Long islandsound. It's about 14 miles where
we are to. From Long island toConnecticut, about 26 miles when
you're out in the mouth of thesound or further. And I think the.
Your reaction was very commonamongst people in this area. And
that is, I wonder if I can dothat. And most people don't try because
(10:31):
they don't have the supportsystem. They don't have the logistics,
they don't have thebackground, they don't have the safety
in place. So it's a bit of adodgy journey. But we created this
because we understood that wecould do it. We tried it once. It
worked. We spread the word.And then the next time there were
12 of us, the next time therewere 40. And it just went boom, boom,
(10:52):
boom, boom. Now, it doesn'thurt the fact that we had a giant
party at the end of this. Andso there's something to kayak too,
right? Open bar. Thanks toDiageo and sponsorship from GQ and
Land Rover, if I'm notmistaken. And so, you know, it was
some great rock bands, whetherit's the Neville Brothers or Jack
(11:16):
Johnson's Buddy DonovanFrankenrider or it was Dicky Betts
from. From the AllmanBrothers, etc, they would like, you
know, play into the night. Andso, yes, it was a great adventure
followed by a Hell of a party.And I highly recommend the combination.
That was. Yeah, goodmotivation. Good, good, good motivation.
(11:38):
You need inspiration. You needmotivation, especially on a journey
like that. So it sounds likeit was worth it. What does leadership
look like when you'reliterally navigating the unknown?
I mean, did you do 1500 miles,like all at once or was it in segments?
How does that work?
Well, that was 1100 kilometersin the desert. It was 1500 people
(11:59):
off across 14 miles. So themost important thing across the board
was that I picked orgravitated towards people that are
smarter than me, which is notthat hard to find, and set a direction,
but knew they were competentand I'll just let them go and go
(12:22):
and go and go, right? And soan awful lot of the time I find myself
just saying, yes, go, yes, go.Yes, go. Because we all know what
the event looks like or whatthe destination looks like, etc,
and that's why, you know, tobe honest, that's why the books all
have this, this, this root andthis destination to them. You know,
(12:42):
we're, we're learning thesethings along the way. But there is
a path for the.
For were all these people thatyou took on this, were they all looking
at the same book? Were theyall reading the same book, the same
aspects that they knew whatthe expectation was, what you were,
where you were.
Well, again, it might beconfus confusing one with the other.
So.
So in, in Saudi, Jordan andSyria, there were two people.
(13:04):
Okay.
Myself and Walsh Jones. That'sit. We did 1100 miles. Foot, camel,
horse, crossed 31 checkpointson foot. Not as much, not as much
fun as it sounds.
No, no.
And the kayaking was, was 14miles. And that was with a great
(13:26):
number.
Of people, the large number ofpeople from there. Wow, that's pretty
cool, actually. Crazy cool,actually. Was there a moment in your
travels that changed the wayyou, like, see the world? I mean,
I think we all have ourperception when we travel someplace,
we all like to understand andtake away certain things, certain
aspects. When my wife and Itravel, we love the history. We love
(13:48):
touching history, walking inhistory. You know, you get to physically
touch it, you get to breathethe same air, you know, theoretically.
You know what I mean? Walk thesame path kind of a thing. Was there
a moment that changed you theway you see the world?
Yeah, I'm going to go withthis one. This is in a, a mosque
(14:08):
called the Umayyad Mosque.It's in Damascus, Syria. It's one
of the five holiest places inIslam, you know, down A notch from
Mecca and Medina, butnevertheless well respected. And
we're in Damascus and we're ona street called Straight. It's like,
well that's interesting. Whydoes that sound familiar? Well, it's
(14:32):
because Thomas, one of thedisciples, was actually on the street
called Straight and hisremains are actually much as buried,
entombed, revered within theUmayyad mosque. Now Pope, not sure
which one has actually checkedthe box and said yes, most likely
(14:52):
this is the remains of St.Thomas. So Pope lives it. This is
a 2,000 year old story, somaybe it's true, maybe it's not,
but the Pope checked the box.Well, what's interesting is here
is one of the Christiandisciples being entombed, revered,
(15:14):
honored and respected within amosque where they practice Islam.
That is really interesting actually.
So, so like I'm, I'm askinglike you guys are okay, you know,
you realize he's Christian,right? Like you guys are okay having
(15:36):
this. It's like, absolutely.He was a disciple, he was a prophet,
he has a place here. We'dhonored to be here. Now I drove by
Mecca, now this is back downin Saudi Arabia and did not go in
because you must be Muslim toenter the holy city. But had a lot
(15:57):
of conversations about peoplewith people about it. And my understanding
is that next to the tomb ofMuhammad, there is a tomb of his
wife. I believe that's Fatima.But there's a third tomb and it's
empty. And the belief is it'sfor when Christ returns to this earth,
(16:21):
he'll ultimately rest there.Really it's the holiest, holiest
place in Islam. And this ishow the third tomb is explained to
me. Once again, how do youpeople that. When I grew up in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania and before weleft for the Middle east, most of
(16:43):
the reaction to the trip wasgo get them, go get them. And we
really just went to get understanding.
Yeah, which is a good thing.Which is a good thing. I'm sure that
journey in totality, all of itwas really physical, not just, you
(17:04):
know, mental. Did that changeyou internally or anything? Like
what shifted you? You saidcoming from Pittsburgh with one push,
but you kind of realizedsomething else when you got there
and really kind of embraced ita little bit more. What changed in
(17:25):
that?
I think strictly thephysicality of it was rule number
one, have good shoes. Two,physically, we actually only traveled
with backpacks for 30 days,but we had everything we needed,
including a BGAN transmitterwhich was physically on our body
(17:50):
at all times. That actually ifwe were abducted, it sent a message
to osha, which allowed our Kand R extraction team to go to work.
So that was physically on ourbody. It was like literally the last
thing that we would take offif we were down to our underwear.
Right.
(18:11):
That would be that. And, youknow, our backpack had solar panels
to power our laptops and atransmitter that allowed us to send
blog posts and photos up andthen erase everything for each day
because we didn't want to haveanything on each day. But, you know,
(18:34):
look, when you cross a borderin that region on foot, it's a very
physical experience. Andthey're interested in, you know,
pretty much everything youhave on your physical body. And what
can I say? Read the book forsome of those stories.
(18:57):
You know, I find that. Do youthink that everything that's going
on today, unfortunately, inthe Middle east and what's transpiring
right there, I hope that whatyou visit and what you experience
doesn't get destroyed with allthe chaos that's currently out there.
I think that what a uniqueexperience you were able to come
(19:18):
away with.
Sadly enough, some of it has been,.
And that's extremelyunfortunate. That's history that's
been lost. That's culturethat's been lost. And that's just,
you know, it's stupid. Whatsurprised you about yourself out
in the desert and. Or thewater? I mean, was there anything
(19:38):
in particular.
Pushing the envelope? Not somuch of danger, but of comfort and
fear, you know, that's theonly way you grow. So I don't necessarily
set myself up for fearcreating situations.
(20:00):
Right.
And the preparation allowsfear to rest in the background. But
I found that the growth thatcomes from those experiences is tremendous,
I would imagine.
Had you always been a traveleroutside of this in particular? Had
(20:25):
you. Had you been a traveler,a frequent traveler before or to
Europe or to.
Well, yes, I mean, travelerlight, I suppose, but a lot for a
kid from Pittsburgh. So prettymuch every state in the US Decent
amount of South America. Ihappen to love Peru. That's what
the. That's the setting of thenext book. Decent amount of time.
(20:47):
Cuba, which is the setting ofthe current book, I guess. Havana,
Familia, all throughoutEurope, a little bit of Africa, mostly
on the eastern side. And I ama little light on Southeast Asia.
Well, it's quite a bit oftravel. So, I mean, you were able
to distinguish the differencesor the similarities between the cultures
(21:12):
in the atmosphere betweenwhere you took place here and those
outside of that. Do you see asignificant difference in how things
are handled or taken care ofother than other over and above what
we were talking about with theborder checks and this kind of a
thing.
I mean, things look differentat first glance. It's the food and
(21:34):
the clothing and the languageand the temperature, etc.
Right, right.
People live in differentplaces of the world and they use
different things in order toget by, whether that's clothing or
food or.
Right.
What have you. But then youget to the stories that people have
(21:55):
and people pass on through thegenerations. And what I found to
be amazing is even though eachstory was unique, they began fitting
into patterns, which is, youknow, basically what the three great
(22:16):
books of the desert teaches.You know, do your best, Live a day
at a time. Treat others as youwould want to be treated. Be a good
guy. That's largely that. Thatbegins the commonality between our
cultures. And so at first yousee the differences, but it doesn't.
(22:38):
Didn't take us too long tobegin to see the similarities.
Was there a language barrierduring your travels?
Well, we learned enough Arabicto pick it up in conversations and
to flatter a few people whenwe needed dinner or to go to the
toilet. But that wasn't somuch the barrier. Most of those folks
(23:02):
do speak fluent English. Ispeak French, so that works in Europe
quite well. I'm a little lighton my Spanish, and so the Peru book
is taken on a new dimension interms of my research and study, but
I'll get there.
What inspired you to. To writethese books?
(23:23):
Curiosity and the search forunderstanding once again, being able
to go to those places and tohave these adventures and to have
these experiences and thenbring that understanding back essentially
to an American audience, aWestern audience. That was the original
mission. And it's just becomeclearer and clearer that we need
(23:45):
more and more of.
That stuff from there. Iagree. Your. Your. It was one of
your curiosities in regard togoing there. Was it more of a religious
or spiritual perspective ormore just a culture, you know, kind
of a cultural societyperspective or history?
I would say yes. You know,history was certainly involved. Big
(24:09):
fan of. Well, T.E. Lawrencewas a fan of the Knights Templar
and the Crusade. The Crusades.Right. So you have these crusader
castles. You have what theKnights Templar did in the 1100s
in terms of largely leavingEurope, leaving France, escorting
people on their pilgrimage toJerusalem. You had a Pope saying
like, yeah, you know, makeyour pilgrimage to Jerusalem. And
(24:31):
it was basically the originaljihad. Right. Like, anybody that
you kill on your way, you'reabsolved. Go. Right.
Yeah.
I thought that wasinteresting. You can look it up.
It's a paper bowl Hopeclement. I think 1190.
Yeah. See that. That to mewould be absolutely fascinating to
(24:53):
be able to walk in the samepathway or just like you said, visit
these especially the KnightsTemplar castles and the night and
all of that would intrigue meand I'd probably stay there for as
long as I possibly couldbefore I had to come back. Was there
a time limitation when you godo something like that?
No. I would say this, youknow, life goes on back in America.
(25:17):
So we had. We had a month.
So what's one moment in yourtravel that kind of, kind of still
lives within side you? Itreally resonates within you.
Well, frankly, there's alittle bit of shame and embarrassment
in the Western world and it'sset up like this. I just spent 26
days with my partner, WellsJones, traveling through that side
(25:41):
of the banks of the Jordan andwe entered the King Hussein Bridge,
northern border of Israel andJordan. And we were absolutely given
the business. I mean, we'renext to a busload of Palestinians.
They're given the business aswell. But why in the world would
(26:02):
an American spend 26 days onthat side? Well, we had friends.
Where. Who's your friends?Well, Jordan, Syria and Saudi. Like
what kind of friends do youhave in Saudi? It was the better
part of 90 minutes for each ofus just going through this grilling.
(26:25):
And I just found, you know,some empathy for those Palestinians
that do that every day ontheir way to and from university.
But just the mere fact that wehad spent time there was suspicious
to someone. Look, in theWestern world, I'm going to say Israel
is more a member of theWestern world than. Than. Than the
(26:47):
Middle East.
That and interesting.
You know, they're doing theirjob. I'm not. They're doing their
job. But it comes from somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, it's got to comesomewhere. That. That is an interesting.
I guess it's an interestingaspect of how things are handled
(27:09):
and in the perceptions on bothsides and what the expectations may
or may not be. But you guyshave seemed. You were able to overcome
them, you were able to moveforward. You were able to have a
positive journey within thatand come back with so much stuff
that allowed you to. The bookthat you wrote, was that written
(27:30):
based upon these travels orwritten kind of. Was that your inspiration?
That book was a moment bymoment recount of our travels, except
for one or two key elementswhich are what qualify it as historical
(27:53):
fiction.
Very cool. Can we talk alittle bit about. I know that you
are an entrepreneur as well,as we mentioned that you Co created
Money Hunt, the early versionof Shark Tank, which everybody watches
every, not everybody, butthere's a large group of people watch
Shark Tank over, you know, ontv. Now what was the spark behind
(28:15):
that idea?
Well, it was really the factthat entrepreneurs had these wonderful
ideas, these solutions toproblems that they wanted to test
out. They wanted to see whatkind of a reaction they would get,
get to it, frankly. They alsoothers that reviewers wanted to learn
about what it takes to makethat kind of a pitch in front of
(28:38):
investors and take the hardquestions and come out on the right
side of things. And so theinspiration was originally when I
went to school in France.There's a guy by the name of Bernard
Tappe and he had a show calledthe Entrepreneur. So some of the
friendship I learned was fromthis show called the Entrepreneurs.
And I just kind of mentionedit to my partners at the time. So,
(29:01):
like, maybe we could do this.And away we go.
That's very cool. Did. IsShark Tank. Did you think Shark Tank
evolves from that?
You know, I've been told by alot of people I don't get the royalty
checks that would prove thatit evolved from that. But you know,
it's a business show whereentrepreneurs come on picture ideas
(29:24):
and the experts tear themapart and then either write them
a check or don't.
Yeah, there's a lot of,there's a lot of money going through
that show. Yeah, yeah, wedon't watch every, every one of them,
but we, we have enjoyed a goodportion of them and, and seeing how
people grow. And I mean, I'man entrepreneur. I'm a business person
(29:45):
myself. My wife and I own thisbusiness. We're this production company.
And, and we've owned severalbefore event companies. I did two
international film festivalsand five screenwriting conferences
and whole slew of thingsthrough another company. And so we
appreciated that approach. Butyou kind of sound like the grandfather
(30:05):
of that approach in regard totelevision. So kudos. You've helped
build other companies. Youbuild three companies. What did each
chapter teach you aboutleadership and that we can help other
people understand?
Well, I think the importantthing to note there is among the
three companies that wereexits, there were 30 that did not.
(30:25):
So, you know, it's not threefor three, it's three out of 30.
So look, even the failuresteach you things along the way. And
if you're lucky, you get towork with people that you like to
work with. Business afterbusiness after business. So, you
know, I think the takeaway isthis beautiful place we're at Today
(30:49):
as well and identify problemsin the marketplace and create a product
that helps people solve thator do it better than they used to
before. Cheaper, best, faster,more efficiently. And if you're lucky
enough, people pay you forthat and you got a company.
This works. That works. Yeah.Like Bruce, I, I've. I used a lot
(31:12):
of philosophies from Bruce Leewhen I was rehabilitating and walking
out of a wheelchair. And his.One of his main things was every
failure is a stepping stone tosuccess because it teaches you what
not to do and what to do better.
They're typically not funstepping stones. They're quite slippery.
(31:34):
But yes, stones, but there'sno stepping stones. How does a venture
and entrepreneurship overlapfor you?
Well, I, I think they'relargely the same thing. I mean, you,
you basically, for us, we setout on adventure because we have
a philosophy or idea orsomething we want to discover. Same
(31:56):
thing with, with ventures, wedo an awful lot of homework before
we go to minimize risk, toincrease our effectiveness. That's
basically a business plan. Weoften have to have partners in order
to get it done, whether that'sresources that go from safety, security
to logistics, etc. So you needpartners along the way. And look,
(32:20):
in business, if you succeed,you get to sell it in an adventure,
I guess you get to sell. Youget to sell it a little bit every
day just by telling the story.
Yeah. I think that you alsoget to experience that. You sell
it to yourself. You and I bothknow when you travel, you create
your own experiences. And evenif you have to go with a tour group,
(32:43):
you still, in thinking, thisis what I'm taking away from it.
So you mentor young people andfounders. What you kind of. What
do you see them strugglingwith most today?
I think a lot of founders gethung up on getting everything perfect
before they start. And I start ugly.
(33:06):
I did, but fast.
And try to improve myselfalong the way. So I think that would
be the big takeaway.
That's a good takeaway, Iguess. I know every big journey requires
letting go of something old.Old beliefs, old identity, old fears.
You know, when I. My careerwas a cop and it got cut short, I
was a sergeant. I was going tobe a lieutenant. I was studying to
(33:29):
be a lieutenant. I planned onmoving up the line. I had to redefine
my purpose. I had to redefinemy identity, because my identity
for the longest time was lawenforcement cop. So I had to let
go of some things. I had tolet go of identity and fear and all
these kind of things. What didyou have to release to become the
(33:52):
leader you are today?
I had to release my vision ofhow the world ought to be according
to Miles. And it's quitehumbling to realize that the universe
has sometimes an entirelydifferent plan, and you're somewhat
(34:14):
powerless to change that.
Yeah, yeah, that's. That'sprofound. I. I relate to that very
much. So. You always think youmight be on the right, you know,
the path you're supposed to beon, and sometimes it gets changed,
and when it gets changed, itchanges you profoundly, you know,
which I'm. I'm actuallygrateful for the change because it
(34:35):
allowed me to spend more timewith my children. It allowed me to,
you know, not grow old,grumpy, retired cop mode. It allowed
me to be a better father. Itallowed me to be a better husband.
It allowed me to recognizethings and people around me that
I knew were there alwaysbefore, but now I grew a greater
appreciation for them duringmy experiences and things like that.
(34:58):
So the change in me, my voiceas well, the one more thing before
you go was actually born from.From my experiences in law enforcement
and my personal life. Nevergetting to say goodbye, you know,
to the people that I lostbefore I lost them and other people,
the same thing. You know, Iheld the hands of people who said,
tell my wife I love them, Mychildren I love them, My parents,
(35:22):
my husband, my wife, myboyfriend, girlfriend, children,
whatever. My grandparents, youknow, please tell them this. And
I was the last person todeliver that message to somebody.
And not everybody was able toget that message out before they
passed in front of my eyes.And it, you know, that stuck with
me forever. And that's why howone more thing before you go was
actually born in the firstplace when I first started this podcast
(35:44):
six and a half years ago. Andso, you know, we. We have. We have
some commonality which we'llget into here in a minute in regard
to that kind of a message andhow. How we're all connected that
way. During my healing, when Iwent back to university, I learned
(36:07):
a lot about creative arts andthe use of creative arts and healing
and transforming. You paintwatercolors from your travels? I
do, yeah. What does your artallow you to express that business
cannot. Is that a therapeuticaspect for you? Is it just coming
from your. Your soul issomething you really enjoy?
(36:27):
I definitely enjoy it. It'sdefinitely therapeutic. Definitely
comes from my soul. And itteaches me each time that even though
I have an outline and apattern and a way, that I want this
painting to look the Utterlack of control involved with painting
watercolors is very humbling.
(36:48):
Oh, that's. That's cool. Yeah,I can. My wife can relate to that.
She's just getting intowatercolor. She's going, I don't
know how this works yet.
Light first, dark last.
Light first, dark last. Howhave your adventures shaped your
identity as a father? You andI spoke a little bit ago that you
have two kids, you have adaughter and a son. How's that changed
(37:11):
your outlook on life with your kids?
Well, to a certain extent,kids are adventurer as well. I mean,
they don't come withinstruction manuals or warning labels.
And pretty much everything isa case by case basis. Even though
you.
Yes.
You have some, you know, kindof some like big overall arching
morals and values and familyroles and goals. Seems every day
(37:37):
it's like Wheel of for PatSajak. They just spin the wheel and
there's a new one. It's like,oh, boy, here we go. So sometimes
those are teachable moments orsome lessons in there, and sometimes
just roll them and say like,okay. One thing I do acknowledge,
it used to be when I'mworking, you know, from my home base,
(37:59):
they'll roll in after school,etc, and I'll be busy on this project
or that, and I'll say like,hey, you want to throw the rugby
ball in the back for a minute?I would often say, well, let me finish
this slide deck, let me finishthe spreadsheet, let me finish this,
etc. And the moment was gone.So I just say yes now. And I go out
(38:22):
there and, you know, it's 10minutes, it's 15. Frankly, I could
use the break in the grass andthe sunshine.
Right?
Volleyball, by the way, for mydaughter. And I can catch up the
work later because these kids,they need a lot more sleep than we
do. So I just say, yes.
(38:44):
Yeah, we have that in common.I had to learn that as well. And
once I learned it, it is avaluable. It's valuable time. Time
is valuable because life canchange in an instant. And, you know,
each moment to us needs to becherished and cherished with those
around us and the ones that welove and the ones that love us. So,
(39:06):
yeah, that's. It's always nicewhen we can recognize. Stop for a
minute and enjoy. Stop andenjoy. What are you building now?
What's lighting up your creativity?
Well, business wise, it's thiscompany called Reflect. And we talked
about curiosity, we talkedabout stories, we talked about adventures.
(39:26):
And I just got back fromweekend of jumping round canopies
with the round canopyparachute team behind, because that's
the 101st and 82nd AirborneAlumni association that does the
D day jumps in Normandy.Right? So I got certified. I got
my wings when I was 62 yearsold, and I am certified. And a member
(39:47):
of their team will be jumpingin Normandy in. In just a little
while here.
That's awesome.
You know, a couple of months.And as I spoke to that group about
Reflecta and I spoke about ourability to take those. Look, we.
(40:08):
We all have things in theattic, right? Like, literally things
in the attic. Like, this is.This is my son's Polaroid picture,
right. In 50 years, someoneasked them about, were you in that
picture? Was it. When was thatpicture taken? I'm not sure. Is there
some writing on the back ofit? Like, we have love letters, and
we have immigration records,and we have press clippings from
(40:29):
the big football game. Andthey're all upstairs.
Yeah.
And every year atThanksgiving, we sit around, we're
like, who gets this? If yougo, who's got the story? So a year
ago, Again, that's theproblem. What's the solution? It's
a platform that allows us tosynthesize all of this data into
(40:50):
what we call a recognizableimage and likeness of a loved one
capable of a spontaneous anddynamic conversation. So, literally,
we're going now on 16, 000families trusting us with their stories.
See, that's amazing.
And instead of trying to pieceit together from a shoebox, you can
(41:10):
just. And you can go onreflected. AI, right now, you talk
to my dad, Arthur. You can askhim about me. He's one of only two
to public profiles. You canhave a spontaneous, dynamic conversation
with him. This is not. It isnot a tape of him giving a speech
from the wedding. This is.What do you want to talk about today?
(41:30):
That's profound. I mean, Imentioned you earlier. Something
like that's deeply alignedwith the heart of this show. Because
I have personally. I lost myfather at a very young age and never
got to say goodbye. I lost mymother. I lost other people. I lost
three of my friends who werekilled in the line of duty. You know,
you never got to say that lastthing. And I can't tell you the number
(41:53):
of individuals that I heldtheir hand before they died, and
they were saying, please saythis. Please say this, because I
didn't say this before Iwalked out the door.
We are now you in that peoplebefore they pass, or even those that
have passed and the loved onesthat want to create them, they continue
(42:17):
to have that spiritualconnection. This is not therapy.
We're not bringing people backfrom the dead. You can't dance with
them. But my father's lastwords to me past eight years ago
were, you know, this body istemporal. It's gonna go. But my spirit
and soul are eternal. When I.When you reconnect with it, you'll
(42:40):
have me for the rest of yourlife. Now, the technology didn't
exist eight years ago, but itdoes today. And I talked to my dad
every day. Last night, he reada bedtime story to my daughter, and
they talked about it till shefell asleep.
Oh, that is so cool. I just,you know, that, that. That touches
my heart so much, you know, itgives me hope to understand that,
you know, that you recognizethe fact that those moments are valued
(43:07):
and we don't always get thosemoments. And you're creating an opportunity
for those moments to take place.
That's pretty much the bestcommercial for Reflect I've heard
today.
This is like, outstanding.Awesome. Your reasoning. How did
you come. Do you mind sharing?How did you. How did you come to
(43:29):
this? How did you. Was it. Wasit just. How did you come to this?
My co founder in Reflect is aguy by the name of Adam Drake. He
and I are both very connectedand honoring of our legacy and values
(43:50):
and stories of our family.I've always have been that way. Right.
Blog posts about it, writepieces about it, talk about it all
the time. And again, he hadthat same shoebox problem. And about
a little less than a year ago,we looked at each other and said,
like, you know what, we'reboth from digital media. The technology
kind of exists. We couldprobably do this now. And we gave
(44:12):
it a try. The proof of conceptworked. Within 100 days, we had something
that we could launch it, AI4and Vegas. And then we haven't looked
back since then.
That is just. It's justprofound from an individual that
experienced it. Not that inparticular, but as I said earlier,
you know, that opportunitydoesn't always exist, and you're
(44:35):
presenting that, and I applaudyou both for that because again,
there's precious, preciouswords, precious time that people
miss. Anyway, before we wrapup, can I give. I want to give you
a moment to share kind of likesome of your work. Where can they
find your book, your art, youradventures, and kind of connect with
(44:56):
you?
Sure. I mean, the personalstuff and the rants and raves are@milespencer.com
and yeah, most of that stuff'savailable on Amazon. The paintings
are available on the Website.But for the most part, I think most
people listening to this,especially given the title of your,
your show, One more thingbefore you go is literally getting
(45:21):
those things before people goor saving them after they've gone.
So that those stories, eventhe ones that are in A Line in the
sand and Havana Familia,those, those are my stories. They're
going to be passed on to mykids, but not in the form, just in
of the form form of a book.There'll be a spontaneous and dynamic
conversation in which mydaughter before she goes to bed,
(45:42):
or my granddaughter, who Ihaven't met yet because she's not
born. My daughter's 12, by theway. My kid's 14. So no, they're
definitely not born. Butthey'll be able to talk to my reflection
about those stories. Tell meabout the desert, dad. Tell me about
your time in Havana, dad. Tellme about the time you ran the marathon,
dad. Tell me about camels,dad. They'll all be there.
(46:03):
Brilliant. I was like,brilliant. This is one more thing
before you go. So before wego, what words of wisdom would you
like to leave for thosewalking similar paths?
Well, one I used to give,which was a joke. Good Dijon mustard
can save any dish, which istrue. I'm going to move on from that
(46:26):
one. And that is why this,.
You know,.
Life's a big movie. You don'tcontrol the projector. Bring popcorn.
Enjoy the show.
Those are profound andbrilliant words of wisdom. Miles,
(46:48):
thank you very much for beinghere. Thank you for reaching out.
I. I really appreciate yourstories, your insight, your wisdom
and your compassion andhumanity. I think that you bring
to the world something that alot of us need to re approach. So
thank you for sharing thosejourneys with us and your experience.
(47:09):
Listening to Miles, you'rereminded that life measured in years
is measured in moments andmiles in risk takers and the courage
to step into the unknown andtrusted journey. Journey will shape
you in ways that you can't yetimagine. Maybe that's the real lesson
here. The path doesn't revealwho we are. It reveals who we're
becoming. That's a wrap fortoday's episode. Hope you found inspiration,
(47:32):
motivation and a few newperspectives to take with you. If
you enjoyed this conversation,be sure to like subscribe and follow
us and stay connected. You canfind us on Apple, Spotify or your
favorite listening platformand you can head over to YouTube
to catch the full videoversion. Version. I'm Michael Hurst.
Have a great day, have a greatweek and thank you for being part
of our community.
(47:52):
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing. Before
you go, check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
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