Hiking for Healing: A Veteran's Journey on the Appalachian Trail

At 72 years old, Marine combat veteran Rand R. Timmerman did something most people half his age will never attempt: he hiked the entire 2,100‑mile Appalachian Trail. But this wasn’t just an adventure — it was a mission.

Rand set out to help his brother Ron, a 71‑year‑old Army veteran and commercial pilot, who was drowning in grief after losing his wife. Rand himself was in recovery from alcoholism. What began as a physical challenge became a spiritual passage — one that transformed both brothers in ways they never expected.

In this deeply moving conversation, Rand shares the humor, danger, heartbreak, and healing that unfolded mile after mile. From critters and storms to moments of grace and unexpected human kindness, this is a story about resilience, brotherhood, and the power of nature to restore the soul.

His book, A Spiritual Passage, captures their journey with 500 stunning photographs and raw, honest journal entries. Today, Rand brings that story to us — and it’s one you won’t forget.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why two Vietnam veterans chose to hike the Appalachian Trail in their 70s
• How grief, addiction, and trauma shaped their journey
• The spiritual moments that changed everything
• The dangers, humor, and unexpected encounters along the trail
• What 2,100 miles taught Rand about healing, purpose, and brotherhood

This is a story about pain, perseverance, and the extraordinary things that happen when you put one foot in front of the other — even when the mountain feels too steep.

Find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform; visit us on our YouTube channel Find everything "One More Thing" here: https://taplink.cc/beforeyougopodcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hey, one more thing before yougo. There are journeys we choose
and journeys that choose us.Some happen in our youth under fire,
in places we never forget.Others happen decades later when
the world is quiet and theonly thing left to face is ourselves.
Today you'll meet a man whowalked more than 2,100 miles at age
72, along with his brother,not to prove anything, but to heal.

(00:25):
A marine combat veteran, arecovering alcoholic. A brother trying
to save another brother fromgrief so deep it nearly swallowed
him whole. This is the storyof Rand Timmerman and the trail that
changed everything. I'm yourhost, Michael Hirsch. Welcome to
one more thing before you go.Today's guest is someone who life

(00:54):
reads like a novel. War, loss,redemption, humor, danger, and the
spiritual awakening thathappen one step at a time on the
Appalachian Trail. Rand R.Timmerman is a Marine combat veteran
from Vietnam, a retiredattorney, a recovering alcoholic,
and the author of A SpiritualPassage. It's a photographic and
emotional journey of 2,100mile journey he took with his brother

(01:16):
Ron, who was grieving the lossof his wife. This episode is about
brotherhood. It's aboutsurvival. It's about the long road
home, physically, emotionallyand spiritually. Today, we're exploring
three big questions. What doeshealing look like when you've carried
pain for decades? How do war,grief and addiction shape a man's
identity? And what happenswhen two brothers walk into the wilderness

(01:39):
searching for something theycan't name? Welcome to the show,
Rand.
Thank you, Mike. I'm reallyglad to be here.
You know, what an amazingjourney that your life has taken
from. I mean, from thebeginning, all the way through till
now. I mean, so many. You'vehad obstacles you've had to overcome.
You've had problems, knowlittle blocks in the road. You've
had successes, you've hadfailures, and you've had family and

(02:02):
you've had colleagues, youhave comrades. So, you know, thank
you for taking that journeybecause it brought you to a point
where we can have this conversation.
Yeah, I'm very, I'm the mostluckiest man on the planet some days.
I'm very grateful for everything.
It's the little things, isn'tit? Little things. One step at a
time. Yeah, well, I like tostart things at the beginning. So

(02:22):
can you kind of take us backbefore the trail, before the book,
before the recovery? We'rekind of a, as you young man stepping
into the Marines, you know,what do you remember most about that
and most vividly about yourtime in Vietnam?
Well, I grew up in A veryrural village called Adams, New York.
And very briefly, my childhoodwas challenging. About five years

(02:48):
old, you know, you becomeaware. And I looked around and I
thought, we're screwed. We arereally screwed. My dad had been a
Mustang pilot in World War II,and he came home, married my mom
and had me and my brother. Andthen he got polio, and he ended up
a year in a hospital, eightmonths in an iron lung, and it paralyzed

(03:10):
him from the waist down. So Iknew we were. It was going to be
a struggle. I went to bedhungry a lot of nights. So I just
had a really tough childhood.I experimented with alcohol at 13
and discovered an elixir thatmade me feel really good about myself

(03:33):
and the world for a fewminutes anyway. And so I knew that
was kind of going to be aproblem, Mike. And it kind of lingered
in my background. The goodnews about that experience was I
realized I reacted to itdifferently than other people and
I was going to have to becareful. And I made a vow not to
ever do drugs. I never did anyillegal drugs whatsoever. So. But

(03:55):
anyway, I liked alcohol. I didgo off to college. First person in
my family to go. At the sametime, my younger brother Ron, who
was a year behind me when hegot out of high school, he enlisted
in the Army. And so I'm incollege. I'm working as a janitor
from midnight to 8 everymorning, cleaning the toilets at

(04:16):
my old high school. Yeah. AndI'm working as a pin setter in a
bowling alley. So this wasbefore pin setting machines. Right.
Friday nights would be a wholelot of fun. All the drunks would
come out and try to kill youwhile you're changing the pins. And
I was selling Amway, and Ikept changing my major because I

(04:38):
had no idea what it was goingto be when I grew up. And so finally
I changed it to psychologybecause I knew I was a nut job. And
I got drunk one weekend, and Iwas at Oswego State in upstate New
York, right off Lake Ontario,and I passed out on the pool table.

(05:00):
Next morning, I hear a key inthe door. When I come to wake up,
whatever the hell I was doing,and the owner comes in. He never
said a word to me. Mike. Hecame in, he went over, started cleaning
up, turned the radio on, andthey were Talking about the 1st Marine
Division going into Vietnam.
Wow.
Yeah. And for me, that waslike my French Foreign Legion moment.

(05:21):
Yeah.
You know, that's what in theold days, I talked about if you didn't
know what you were going todo. With your life. Go in the French
Foreign Legion and get a. Geta set or whatever. Right. So, yeah,
a month later, I'm in the WarMemorial in Syracuse, New York, raising
my hand, swearing to protectmy country against enemies foreign
and domestic.
Well, I mean, that's a. That'san interesting, unique way of getting

(05:44):
involved in the military. I. Ido have one question, though. How
did anybody not notice yousleeping on the. On the pool table
before they locked up?
I have no idea. I might havebeen in the bathroom or something.
I don't know. We. I was therefor a couple days or a couple nights.
Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy.
It was crazy. But, you know,it's a blizzard going on and. Well,

(06:07):
I don't know. That's just whathappened. Probably in the bathroom
or somewhere. And when heleft, he didn't realize he still
had a patron.
That's funny. Get locked up inthe middle of the night. In a different
way, you and your brother bothserved in different branches. You
served in the Marines, andyour brother was in. In the Army.
How did that shape yourrelationship? I mean, Marine. Look,

(06:28):
my brother was in the Navy. Istarted off my career in the Navy
and ended up in the NationalGuard. So, you know, I got both sides
between the Navy and the. Inthe. In the army. And, you know,
there's always that rival.Right. Did you guys have that rival
both as brothers and in thesame, you know, the military?
Yeah. Ronnie ended up being amachine gunner. He was assigned to

(06:48):
an air unit in the army downby Chu Lai, which was kind of in
the middle of Vietnam. And hewas using M60 machine guns. That's
what we had in the MarineCorps, too. It was a really good
weapon. And I ended up being amachine gunner for a short period
of time. But, yeah, I don'tknow, somehow, you know, in a recovery

(07:10):
program I'm in one of thefounders. In his story, he talked
about his. His wife wouldcomplain about his drinking, and
he would say that all men ofgreat intelligence came to their
best decisions and ideas whenthey were drunk. Apparently. I subscribed
to that my whole adult lifepretty much, because it just didn't

(07:32):
seem like I could make adecision without getting hammered.
And then somehow, I don'tknow. It's a weird phenomena, but
it's not uncommon among peoplewho are alcoholic, that's for sure.
I relate to that. I understandthat. Both my parents were alcoholics,
my father and my mother both.So I grew up in an environment similar

(07:53):
to yours. And just in the factthat, you know, we were, I grew up
poor, we grew up hungry, hadto go to my grandmother's house to
eat, you know, a lot of thetime. So we didn't have much to eat
when we were there. And itchanges you as an individual, especially
as a child growing up in thatenvironment, it creates kind of a,
you create kind of aprotection, a world of your own to

(08:16):
kind of stay protected. And Ithink some of us go towards the alcohol
as more of a, as part of thatprotection type thing. My brother,
you know, kind of milled itthat way as well, so. But you found
your way out and that's apositive thing, I think, because
it, you know, we'll talk aboutthat here in a little bit. But it's.

(08:39):
When you build that wall andyou build that protection around
you, sometimes it's hard tobreak it down when you return home.
What stayed with you? Whatdidn't you talk about when I.
Came back from Vietnam?
Yeah.
Well, I ended up being. So Ienlisted, I fought in I Corps, the

(09:03):
northernmost province ofVietnam. So we were west of Da Nang
and up to Quang Tree and overtowards Laos and all that area. It's
all jungle and mountainousand. And I did, I volunteered for
the air wing. Trudging aroundthe jungle all day long is not only
dangerous, but it's miserable.And so they made me a second lieutenant

(09:28):
the last couple of months,which was kind of common because
lieutenants didn't do well inthat combat environment. You had
to stick your head up a lot ifyou were leading troops. So anyway,
they gave me temporarycommission and then when I left they
said, well, you can, you goback to corporal. Which I did actually.

(09:51):
You can either just get outbecause it was a two year enlistment
or you can go to ocs. So Iended up. I didn't know what the
hell I was going to do in mylife still, Mike, I mean I. So I
went to OCS and basic schoolin Quantico, Virginia. Decided I
wanted to be in the air wings.So the 1st Marine Air Wing was the

(10:13):
unit I had did a little timewith in Vietnam. So I ended up at
first MA in Cherry Point,North Carolina. And this is amazing.
Part of my. It's so amazinghow coincidences can happen. It seemed
to have happened my wholelife. And I get there and my ex drill

(10:33):
instructor is the officer ofthe day because he's a Mustang captain
now. He had been. I had seenhim in Vietnam a couple times. They
made him a Mustang lieutenantand he went up quick through the
Ranks. So anyway, he's acaptain when I get to Cherry Point.
When I leave Cherry Point, twoand a half years later, I'm a first

(10:54):
lieutenant and he's a gunnerysergeant again.
That's.
Yeah.
So anyway, you know, it'salmost. It's almost. Take that, Sarge.
Yeah, well, he was my guardianangel. I didn't even know it. So
I get to Cherry Point, I'msigning in, it's on Sunday, and we,
you know, we're glad to seeeach other and everything. And he

(11:15):
says, you know, I got a bunchof schools, Rand. You want to go
to a school? And I don't knowwhat the heck. So he rally him off
and he says, newport, RhodeIsland. I said, wow, I've never been
to Rhode Island. What's that?He says, it's a JAG school. It's
for legal officers. Next day,I'm checking in at Newport. To the

(11:36):
Navy, it's a naval base, andthat's where they did all the justice.
Naval justice stuff. And I getthere, and the class is a hundred
of us, 99 captains who haveall gotten a college degree and a
law degree. And they wentthrough the same training I did,

(11:57):
but now they had to make themcaptains in order to get the money
up there enough that somebodywould even want to do that. Right?
Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, 20 ofus rented a big mansion right on
the ocean because it was theoff season, and each had our own
room. And these guys are kindof partying it up a little bit, you
know, celebrating finishingthe officer training and getting

(12:18):
out of law school and all thatstuff. And I'm like, I shouldn't
even be here, but I'm going towork at this. And so I didn't drink
during the week, and they werekind of partying all the time, and.
And I ended up being the classhonor man. I got the highest scores.
Very cool. Yeah, very cool.
It's amazing when you thinkabout it. And so I went back to Cherry

(12:41):
Point, and I was a defenselawyer for a couple of cases. I got
a couple acquittals, which wasamazing because you don't have a
jury of your peers in themilitary. Right, right. The juries
are mostly. Generally, it's acolonel, a major, maybe a captain,
maybe a first lieutenant.There was usually four or six somewhere,

(13:02):
you know, four or five or sixof them or whatever. So I got. I
got a couple of acquittals,and I really liked doing it, what
I was doing. So they fixedthat problem. They made me a prosecutor.
Doing well on this side.Let's. Let's flip you.
Yeah. Now I'm due to go backoverseas and I'm probably going to

(13:28):
be a forward observer. If Ihadn't gone to the JAG school especially.
So this captain, his name wasDale Moan. I'll never forget him.
And he. So every few monthsI'm creeping up the list to go rotate
back over and then all of asudden I get orders and I'm sent
down to Roosevelt Roads NavalBase where there was a Marine contingent.

(13:48):
And I would go down there anddo all that Article 32 trials for
a month or so and then I wouldcome back and I'm not on the top
of the list to go overseasanymore. Well, that happened twice.
And the second time, so Ialmost. I had like just a year left.
I'm like, I might not make. Imight not be sent back over. So I'm

(14:09):
talking to Dale one day, Isaid, I don't understand why I keep
getting pushed back down thelist. And he said, why do you think
I'm sending you down toRoosevelt Roads? That's why you keep
moving down. If you go back toVietnam, you will definitely get
killed a second time. There'sjust no question about it because,
you know, I had used up a lotof credits. He knew that. And it

(14:30):
was amazing.
It's kind of a guardian angeltype, you know, Lucky. Lucky for
you, but. Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah. You know, he was anamazing guy. Is a drug. He looked
like a Marine Corps drillingsergeant. I mean, picture Clint Eastwood,
you know, tall, handsome, goodlooking. I mean, poster man, recruitment

(14:58):
type guy. Right. I mean, hejust looked like the perfect Marine
and he was in many ways. Butthe funny part about him was he could
be tough as hell one minuteand loving and carrying the net.
I never. He was the most. Idon't know. He was an amazing guy.
I don't know whatever happenedto him. I never saw him after or
heard from him after the day I left.

(15:18):
Well, hopefully he had a longand healthy life after that. You
know, it's nice when we runinto people like that within our
lives that make a positiveimpact for us. That's very. That's
cool. Well, you built asuccessful career as an attorney.
I mean, what was happeninglike internally during those decades
as well as how did the alcoholshift, you know?

(15:41):
Oh, man, that's. That'samazing perspective you have on that
because. So I came back, I gotmarried while I was at Cherry Point.
I met a girl the day I went inthe Marine Corps the day before.
That sounds like a movie rant.
Oh, my God. Yeah. I ended upmarrying her and figured out at one

(16:04):
point, we had only beentogether about 30 days.
Wow.
When we got married, you know,she blessed me with three wonderful
daughters. We came back. Icame back. A lot of the guys I knew
struggle with alcohol. Theygot in trouble in the. In the service.

(16:25):
It was. It was dismaying tosee guys. Guys would come back from
Vietnam. I'm a legal officer.Right. I'm at Cherry Point. These
guys would come back, theirchest would be covered with. I did
not get a whole lot of money.Metals. Trust me. I was more about
trying to survive this thing.And these guys have come back. I
mean, they're real solidwarriors. Yeah. And then they would

(16:50):
go on leave, and they would godown to Myrtle beach or someplace,
get a motel, stay in the motelfor 34 days, drink their brains out.
So they come back, they'reAWOL three or four days, and the
next thing you know, they'repfc and they're. You know, they've
been in the brig for six. Itwas horrible the way we treated.

(17:11):
Even the Marines, Howie and alot of those guys didn't do very
well. And so I. I thought,damn, it's kind of weird. I don't
seem to have any. I was verydetermined to become a lawyer. You
know, After I got out of themilitary, I moved back to Syracuse.

(17:32):
Moved to Syracuse to go toSyracuse University. Got three jobs,
got a wife and two kids. Got.Still got no money. Syracuse was
expensive. The GI Bill didn'teven pay the whole tuition. So I'm
still economically challenged,to say the least. And I was determined
to be successful and not to beliving in poverty. I was so sick

(17:56):
of it. And so that drove me.But I kept thinking, every once in
a while, I take a moment, Ithink, I'm. You know, I seem to be
fine. And it was kind ofamazing because I had a fair amount
of trauma, too. My brother,the same thing. And then one night,
oh, my God, I. We're in bed.I'm. I'm back in Vietnam. In my world,

(18:20):
at that moment, I'm back inVietnam. I mean, there's no question
about it. I can smell thesmells. I can smell the gore. I can
hear all the noise, the bombsgoing off, the grenades, the firing
and all that stuff. And all ofa sudden, I'm gutted, basically.
And I'm sitting on the groundholding my guts, and I'm trying to

(18:42):
put them back inside of me.And I'm like, this time I'm done.
I can't fix this. This timethey got me, you know, and I'm screaming
and all of a sudden I'm bathedin white light. And I open my eyes.
My wife is laying on the floorby the door to the bathroom because

(19:04):
she had just reached up andflicked on the light switch. That's
where the light came from. AndI'm sitting in bed and I'm not covered
in blood, I'm covered in sweatand I'm screaming and I'm smelling
the smells I'm smellingbecause I avoided myself in that
bed. And that was one of thosemoments. My wife and I looked at
each other and her eyes werelike. The fear and the panic in her

(19:26):
eyes. We both knew that thiswas not good, that our lives were
changed at that moment. Andthen I had been a machine gunner
on the helicopter. And then Istarted having other nightmares.
Usually when I would be, Iwould be, you know, we'd be fighting
and I. Something would happenand I would fall out of the helicopter,

(19:49):
which actually did happen tome in one battle. And I ended up
on the, on the skidunderneath. It somehow got managed
to get back in. But so I hadthese falling dreams. So between
those types of nightmares, Istarted, you know, I'd put the kids
to bed, my wife would go tobed, and then I would spend like

(20:09):
an hour just drinking mybrains out. So I started medicating
with alcohol. Didn't do it allthe time. I tried to be responsible
and you know, I had to go towork and all that kind of thing.
I was all self employed. I hada great career, Mike. I mean, I was
the first lawyer to crossexamine the chief of the FBI lab

(20:30):
in Washington D.C. in a murdertrial in Lewis County, New York.
Wow. Well done in Louisville.Yeah, this is a town with 3500 people.
It's a county that's 1200square miles and there's 30,000 people.
And they're all farmers orfarm related, you know, agric, agribusiness
and all that kind of stuff. Imean, you walk out of the courthouse

(20:53):
there, you almost in bareback,see a tractor going by, pulling manure
or hay or some darn thing. Imean, just that kind of a world,
you know. And we had a veryunusual murder case. And I ended
up defending one of thedefendants and subpoenaed the director
of the lab. And she came upand, and told me, she said, nobody.
I said, anybody ever subpoenayou before? She said, no. This is

(21:16):
the first time that we'retesting DNA.
Oh, that's very cool. From aperspective. That's desperate.
Yeah. I went on a legalpodcast and talked about this. The
guy was very interested inthat. Yeah. So, I mean, I just had
a. You know, my whole life hasbeen full of these kind of weird
things that would happen andI'd get right in the middle of them.

(21:37):
And I don't know, I was prettywell set after that because once
you do a murder trial, you'repretty well known. You know what
I mean?
Yeah, yeah. Especially whenthat's probably profile. Profile
like that. That's. I mean,it's interesting going back to your,
your dreams and your, andyour, your issues with that. The

(21:58):
ptsd. You know, I, I respectthat because I understand PTSD from
a personal perspective aswell. I got injured in line of duty
and that still haunts me. Andthe suicides, the murders, the assaults,
the working domestic violencefor four years, the traffic accidents,
it all comes back and haunts.You know, it's for those people that

(22:20):
are, that are watching andlistening. You know, post traumatic
stress comes from a variety ofperspectives and you know, you experiencing
that at that time, especiallythat time period, they didn't have
such a, a broad understandingof PTSD at that time, and they understood

(22:40):
that people come back withthose kind of nightmares and people
did come back with shell shockand, and stuff like that, but they
really didn't understand PTSDfrom, from there. So it's a positive
thing that you were able tocome through that and get through
it.
You too. I mean, I, Isincerely, I have a lot of friends
that were. If you're in thecriminal defense business, you're

(23:03):
going to know a lot of. Yeah,police officers and state police
and, you know, DAs and allthat kind of stuff. And I always
got a lot of. Some of them aremy friends, actually. Clients would
say, how can you go out aftera trial? How can you go out and drink
with those guys? So we're justfriends. We're not, you know, we,
we have to wear our masks anddo our work in the courtroom, but
we're, you know, we canseparate our professional life from

(23:26):
our personal life. Right. Butmy hat goes off to you because my
trauma was pretty muchcondensed to that 13 month period.
And then one client who triedkill me, that was another trauma
thing. But you know what? I soadmire police officers like you,
Mike, because your wholecareer is seeing all this trauma

(23:47):
or EMTs or firefighters. Imean, they have probably more. You
probably had more trauma thanI did in your career. So hats off
to you.
Well, and again, with respect,what you've gone through doesn't
diminish anything, you know,from what I've gone through. I think
that, you know, we share acommonality within that, that we

(24:08):
both had trauma from our jobsthat, you know, we weren't. We were
expecting because we knew theenvironment we were in. But that
doesn't take away from thefact that those visions continue
to come back and haunt us, youknow, from those perspectives. So
for anyone that's out therethat has those, whether you're a
soldier, a warrior,firefighter, a paramedic, cop, any.

(24:33):
From any of thoseperspectives, you're not alone. And,
you know, just quick psa, youknow, there's always. There's always
solutions for you to help getthrough all that. But thank you.
Well, now there are. Back inthose days, there wasn't.
Yeah, there was. There reallywasn't. There was again, they say,
well, you know what you signedup for, right? Kind of an attitude

(24:56):
type thing. Well, lifedelivered another blow. One that
really didn't come from thewar. Your brother. Let's talk about
your brother a little bitbecause I know that your. Your brother
Ron, he was your youngerbrother. He lost his wife, the love
of his life. Suddenly he was aman carrying grief, like heavier
than. Than any pack on atrail. What did grief look like for

(25:18):
you, brother? How'd you help him?
Well, my brother, when he cameback from Vietnam, our mother's best
friend was edie. Edie was 14years older than Ron, divorced with
seven kids. So Ron comes backfrom war, he doesn't know what the
heck. Well, he kind of knew hewanted to be a commercial pilot.

(25:39):
Our dad had been a pilot. Ron,I think he might have already had
his pilot's license. Actually,I ended up getting mine too, while
I was at Cherry Point becauseit was cheap to do and. But my brother
was way better pilot than me.And our father was an incredible
pilot. He could do things withan airplane you could never imagine.
But that's cool.
So Ronnie comes back on thefirst day with the Edie. She shows

(26:02):
up with the three youngestkids and he fell mad in love with
her. And so they. She got. Shewas very religious person. My brother
was a very religious man. Ihad no spirituality from. From my
youngest. You know, somewherearound 18 or 19, I decided I don't

(26:24):
understand this loving Godwith all these rules, and I'm breaking
the rules. I'm stealing candybars because I'm hungry and all that
kind of stuff. But Ron'sfaith, never. And then when I Got
to Vietnam. I mean, that firsttime I got, you know, tested, so
to speak. I mean, I did okay,but I'm like, there can't be a God.

(26:45):
These guys that just died inthis battle are better men than me.
What? You know, I just. I justgave it up. I just. I'm never gonn
believe in a higher power orGod. So that put me in a different
spirit. But Ronnie was. And Iasked him about this while we're
hiking, actually, Mike, didyou ever really be challenged, even
in Vietnam? Because hesuffered a lot of trauma, too. I

(27:07):
mean, he saw and he said, no,not really. But when Edie died, I
think he had been such a goodman. So they moved to Utah. They
got involved in the MormonChurch. Edie had a stroke in 2011
and ended up in a wheelchair.And then she had a bunch of minis.

(27:31):
So some people get better.That's not Edie's case. And Ronnie
took care of her for six yearsall the time. He wouldn't let anybody
else do it. I mean, when wewere hiking, Mike, one day, Ronnie.
I don't know how the topiccame up, but Ron said, well, the
thing I really liked aboutEdie was that every morning when
she woke up, she had a bigsmile on her face, and she was always

(27:55):
like, oh, my God, where do youfind a woman like that? You know,
I mean, that's just thatamazing type of person. And. And
so when she passed In Novemberof 2017, he had seven kids. There
were step kids, but he wasreally their dad. 27 grandchildren

(28:18):
and 27 great grandchildren.
27 grandchildren. Holy smoke.
Now he has 30 greatgrandchildren. And they keep coming
because you get married youngin the Mormon Church, and then they
like, you know, they playaround like rabbits, and kids just
start popping out. And, Imean, it's amazing. I couldn't even
remember all their names. ButRonnie, you know, he's been this

(28:43):
huge family. He's alwaysriding car. He sends everybody five
bucks is all he can afford.Because every week it's a birthday,
it's a graduation, it'sChristmas, you know, all the. Just
think about it. And you gotall these people in your life.
Broke. Go broke. With hisgrandkids and great grandkids.
Yeah. So. But when Edie died,he thought he was ready for it. I

(29:07):
mean, he'd been a bishop forfour years. He'd done a ton of funerals
and services and all kinds ofthings, baptisms or whatever they
do. And, you know, he's a manof service and a man of God and But
the grief was just so. I couldjust tell. I talked to him on the
phone, and he said somethingabout hiking the Appalachian Trail.

(29:29):
Well, I had hiked out. Youknow, I had hiked parts of it. He
turned out Ronnie had done alot of hiking and camping. I had
to. I would take weekends andjust go in the mountains and just
start walking. I knowsomething about combat veterans.
We need to get out into theworld, and we need be able to. Yeah.
Go out and test ourselves.And. And I. I hiked a cold mountain

(29:53):
one time that's in Pisgah,over in the Smoky Mountain. So I
knew quite a bit about themountains. I had done fake charges
with bears, which is no fun atall. So I had a fair amount of experience.
Ronnie had quite a bit. Butwhen he said that I'm 72, he's 71.
I mean, this is crazy talk.Right. I felt like if you're going

(30:14):
to do that, you need to be inyour 30s or 40s, not 70s.
Not 70s. Yeah. I mean, anyhike up in the mountains is tedious,
but the Appalachian Trail hasgot to be something that is immense.
It's the longest footpath,only trail in the whole world. In
the whole world. 2200Mountains from Springer Mountain

(30:38):
in Georgia to Ketadin Mountainin. In Maine. And it goes over 600
mountains. 300 of them arenamed. It goes through 14 states.
There's 14 Bear Mountains. Itseems like every state has a Bear
Mountain.
Yeah. They can't think of adifferent name.

(30:58):
Yeah. 460, 500,000ft ofelevation changes. So that's a half
a million feet of going up anddown, basically. Right. You're never,
very rarely going flat. About3 million people hike some part of
the Appalachian Trail everyyear. About 3,000 try to do the whole

(31:18):
thing. 17% roughly make it.That's about 500 people a year.
I mean, well, that puts youinto that arena, but at your age,
what. That's a significantachievement at your guys's age. I
mean, it's interesting that hesuggested the Appalachian Trail first.
I mean, had you even thoughtabout that prior to that?

(31:41):
Oh, I had thought about it. Ihad actually wanted to do it, but
I was so busy as an attorneyand my family and all that kind of
stuff, I just never. I couldnever take the six months to do it.
And I thought it wasimpossible. So when he said that,
I said, well, why don't I comeout and see you? And so I went out
to see him in January of 2018,and we went hiking in the Utah man,

(32:04):
that was beautiful. Utah, thisis St. George. They lived in St.
George. Beautiful area there.And he brought it up again. I'm like,
are you serious? So I said,you really going to try? He said,
yeah. I said, when? He said,March 20th.
We already set the date.
He had the date. He had thegear. I mean, he had the maps. He's

(32:25):
got it all. And I'm like, mybrain is like, there's no way. And
I said, well, how are yougoing to do it? He said, I'm going
to get on a bus, go toSpringer Mountain, start walking.
Well, that's not a good plan,bro. That's not a good plan. And
so I said, I'll go with you.So that's what we did. We enjoyed.

(32:49):
It. Wasn't like just going outfor a cup of coffee or breakfast.
No, a little bit deeper thanthat. What were you guys hoping to
find out when you got there?Were you afraid of anything? What.
What did your family think?
Well, my wife knows I'minsane, so they were supportive for

(33:10):
sure in one way, but pretty.My kids didn't. I mean, they thought
it was impossible. I thoughtit was impossible. I actually wrote
in the book, Mike. I ended updoing a book about it. And we can
talk about that in a minute.But in the book, I put two weeks
max. So when I gave Ronnie adraft of the book, which has 500
beautiful pictures in it, andit describes what we did every day

(33:32):
and shows pictures of where wewent, among other things, and I said,
two weeks max. He looks at me,goes, you didn't think we could do
it? No, I didn't think wecould do it. I figured two weeks
max and you'd give up. Oh, myGod, that's.

(33:53):
That's like brilliant. Whatwas the moment you guys realized
this isn't just a hike, it's aspiritual passage. I mean, that's
the name of the book, you know.
Yeah, I didn't think of thatuntil afterwards, actually. The spirituality
part of it for me. We had bothhad experiences on the trail, were
definitely spiritual innature, Mike. But I also wrote about

(34:18):
my recovery. Every thirdparagraph or so talks about how I
went through my recoveryprogram and, and how I did this.
They have 12 steps and. Andthen how after I had done that, I
started working with other menand it just changed my whole life.
I still do. I went to ameeting this morning. I've already
talked to two guys on thephone that I'm helping try to get

(34:40):
to, to do this deal so theydon't have to Pick up a drink again.
And then Ronnie's spiritualjourney, of course, and, and also
things that happened on thetrail that were. That relieved him
of his grief. There was someamazing. He had some amazing moments,
and he had some really hardmoments, too. I mean, so that's where
we got that, the title from.But I never planned on doing that.

(35:03):
We both kept journals. Theywere completely different. Ronnie
is the pilot type guy, right?So he's got a lot of detail where
we were, changes in elevation,where we went, and all that kind
of stuff. And then every. Hewould write about how happy he was
to have the support of hisfamily. And I was more about, here's
the names of all the people wemet. We have all trail names, right?

(35:27):
Everybody's anonymous in theAppalachian Trail. So I would write
down the trail names and funnythings that happened and stuff like
that. Ronnie took hardly anypictures. I took 5,000 pictures.
You know, some days I take 40or 50 pictures, and it's just amazing.
I walk around the corner andgo, oh, oh, my God, look at that.
I'll never see that. Wouldtake a picture. So I had all these

(35:51):
beautiful pictures, and. Yeah,but it was very, very difficult.
I didn't really think. I don'tknow. We kind of got into hiking
shape. After a while, you justdo. Your body, you know, everything
tightens up, and like I said,we're both pretty good shape. I ran
26 marathons while I was anadult. We were weekend warriors,

(36:14):
or I was at least. You know,Ronnie did a ton of hiking. I'm 80
years old now. I've alreadywalked five miles today. I probably
do two, couple more. So we hadthat warrior mindset of, you know,
staying ready and being ingood physical shape, which is a good.

(36:34):
Thing, especially at your age.I mean, you know, look, I'm not a
young person myself either,but you, obviously, you're. You're
a little more than me. I, Imeant that's what I miss mostly about
Colorado, because in Colorado,we lived in Colorado Springs, and
then before we moved here, welived up in Woodland park, which

(36:55):
is up behind Pikes Peak.Literally, our front come out on
our front porch, where ourfront yard was the backside of Pikes
Peak, which is about 8, 500ft.And, you know, I, I did the same
thing. I, I. We went up in themountains as much and as often as
we possibly could. And when Ihad bad days, I'd go up in the mountains

(37:15):
and I'd take a hike and walkaround in the streams and the trees
and the bushes and The. Youknow, and get back to Mother Nature,
basically. And it helped us.Helped me immensely. It helped me
to work through things, helpedme to kind of solve things. Did that
trail teach you guys anything?Did you come out of it with some

(37:36):
new perspectives or anythingthat was really, really like. Like
a. Like wow.
Yeah, there was a lot of wow.Mountain moments. I fiddled around
with a rattlesnake one day fora few minutes.
No,.

(37:57):
There was a. A lot of thehikers are. Well, they're all younger
than we were by decades, mostof them. And especially after a while,
it's. You get down to the onesthat just look like they can do it.
You know, some of them are intheir 40s and 50s. There are a lot
of tough guys and women. Iwould say half the hikers in the

(38:19):
first half, until we got toHarpers Ferry, which is roughly halfway,
were women. I mean, amazingwomen, tough women. There's one woman
with her four kids. Youngestkid was six. I mean, that was.
She was bringing all four kidsup there.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, earlyintroduction, I think that's impressive

(38:40):
for somebody to be able to dothat, introduce them to what nature
is, what. What exists here.Because especially if you grew up
in a city environment and youdon't really understand the beauty
of what's really out there.And I think you captured that in
photographs.
Yeah, for sure. One night,Ronnie, we were both tired. We didn't
talk much at night becauseyou're so tired. But, yeah, one night

(39:02):
my brother says, man, bro,there's a lot of weird people out
here. And I go, ron, they'reall weird. We're all weird. You and
I aren't weird. And I said,yeah, we are. Normal people don't
do this. They don't walk inthe mountains from dawn to 3, 4 o'

(39:24):
clock in the afternoon.Averaging 11 miles a day like we
were doing takes a lot oftime. The fatigue factor was unbelievable.
See, all those other peopleare probably thinking the same thing.
Those guys are weird. They're.What are these two old guys doing
out here?
Oh, yeah. And there's amazingkind of a camaraderie and the people
were unbelievable. And theywould do things you wouldn't. One

(39:47):
day we were. And we were wellinto Virginia and it was raining.
We had finished. We wereputting up my tent and stuff. And
this lady and this guy comeout. Well, before that, there's a
dog. This dog just comes outof nowhere. And then after a while
it leaves and. And then thiscouple comes out and it's raining

(40:09):
And I put up a tarpon, wasstanding on her. Ronnie's standing
on her and putting up thetent. And all of a sudden I see him
give. Get out his wallet andhe gives the girl some money. So
they leave and I go, hey, bro,what's going on? He says, well, they
ran out of money, so I gavehim 50 bucks. And they're going to

(40:31):
get a job at one of thehostels to. For a few days to. That's.
Apparently they were trying towork their way through the Appalachian
Trail by, you know, part timejobs or whatever. Okay, good, that's
great. And then a few minutes,like a half an hour later, the lady
comes back. Now it's pouringrain, it's miserable. She comes back

(40:51):
and she's carrying a hikingstick and she goes, is this yours?
And I go, oh my gosh, that's.Yeah. How. What happened? She said,
well, I saw a dog with it downthe trail. She'd already walked about
probably a mile at least, soshe recognized. She said, I saw you

(41:14):
had one just like this. And Isaid, I didn't even know it was gone.
She. So she walked back. Shehiked an extra an hour to bring me
back my pole.
That's crazy cool, actually,how that, how the dog sneak in there
and steal your stick.
I don't know.
Ninja. Ninja dog on the trail.

(41:37):
There's another picture of meand I think we're in Shenandoah Mountains
in the national park there.And I had somebody take the picture
of me and I'm standing righton the edge of a cliff. So it's kind
of a cool picture. Well,there's a dog at my feet and my brother
saw the picture and he goes,where'd the dog come from? I don't

(41:58):
know. But it hiked with me forabout, I don't know, an hour. And
then all of a sudden it disappeared.
Just picked up on her, say,hey, you're my friend now. That's
cool.
Yeah.
What was the hardest, thehardest day on the trophy, physically
or emotionally? Both.
So we had to skip around alittle bit. We would go north and

(42:19):
then go back down south. Sowhen we got to the Smoky mountains,
the first 80 some miles inGeorgia, and then you come to what's
called Fontana Dam. And nowyou're on the Tennessee, North Carolina
border for the most part atFontana Dam. And then you got to
go like 40 miles to get toCleveland's Dome, which is right

(42:40):
in the middle of the SmokyMountains. And so when we got there,
it was snowing, it was bad andactually, we found out later a whole
bunch of hikers got strandedin like a foot of snow. Really?
Because you guys. You guysleft in March, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Ronnie and I jumped upnorth, we went to Damascus, and we

(43:02):
went a couple hundred milesinto Virginia. So then we had to
go back. And I hiked southfrom Route 40, which is on the north
part of the Smoky Mountains.Ronnie went around. We had two cars,
so we were able to drive. AndRonnie went down to Fontana and we
did. What we did most of thetime is we. We didn't hike together.

(43:25):
I couldn't keep up with himanyway because I got an artificial
left leg and my right leg is ahalf inch shorter. And I. I am the
limpiest man to ever hike theAppalachian Trail. I got a really
bad limp. His son hiked withus some of the time, and he took
a video, and we were watchingit here a few years ago at his house.
And I go, who's that guylimping? And he goes, that's you.

(43:48):
That's you.
I had no idea how bad it was.
But that's funny. You shouldfind the trails that you could put
the. The shorter one on theupper end so you look even.
Yeah. Really well, without thewalking sticks, I probably would
never been able to make it.But. So anyway, I left Clingman's
Dome and went south towardsFontana Dam, and Ron was going the

(44:10):
other way. And I looked at themap and I saw it said Fake Gap or
False Gap. And we were gettingbad storms all the way through the
Smoky Mountains, so I decidedthe shelter was jam packed. There's
no room. So I took off, andI'm going to stay at this false gap.
Well, when I got there,there's no gap. It was. The trail

(44:34):
was about 12, maybe 15ft wideat the max, and it dropped off hundreds
of feet on both sides. Like,it was just. I'm like, I got no choice.
It's getting dark. I can't be.So I pitched my tent right in the
trail, and thunderstorms cameup, and I got in the tent, fell asleep,
and about midnight, I hearthis freight train coming. That's

(44:56):
what it sounded like. Freighttrain went right by me on the right.
I go, holy crap. And what Ididn't realize until the next morning
when I got up was that thevalley to my south was probably a
mile wide at the furthestpoint. But then it came to a point,
like right where I was. So itwas following these tremendous winds
from the south right up to me.And sometimes they would go to the

(45:19):
right or they go the left. Andthen every once in a while, one would
hit me. So I wake up in themiddle of night, I'm in this really
bad situation, and the tentwas just whipping me to death. The
winds were so strong, the tempkept collapsing like an accordion.
Just bang, bang, bang, bang,bang, bang. My brother said, were

(45:40):
you trying to hang on to therods? We had mountain tents, so they
were good tents. I said, hellno. I was pushing down on the stakes
as hard as I could, justhoping they would hold, because they
didn't. I was. I felt like itwas in a body bag, Mike. I knew if
that tent detached from theearth, I was going to be dead. And
nobody would probably everfind me, even so. And they wouldn't

(46:03):
even know what happened. Sothis went on all night long. And
I was like, okay, God. Youknow, I made a connection with a
higher power in my alcoholrecovery program. And so I'd been
praying for quite a while. I'mfour years sober at this point, almost
five years. God had saved mefrom. Took away the obsession from

(46:24):
alcohol. It was amazing. So Iwas having these prayers. God just.
I don't know, maybe if this isit for me, God, okay, I'll accept
that. I guess you want me tocome and hang out with you or something,
but I've been a good boy nowfor four years. I've been helping
a lot of men. I kind of liketo stick around, help some more men

(46:45):
if it's okay with you. But itwas the scariest night for sure I've
ever had my whole life, otherthan some things in Vietnam, but.
And then when dawn came, itwas like, oh, my God, the winds let
up. And I was just amazed Iwas still alive. It was so bad. And
then when I got out of thetent, I turned my phone back on.

(47:06):
Well, I had two guys thatwould call me every morning, just
check in because I was helpingthem, right? And they both called
me. And one of them, I said,yeah, it's fine. I'm doing good,
thanks, and how are you doingthat kind of thing. The other guy
called me, he goes, rand, areyou okay? And I said, yeah, why?
And he said, well, I've beenwatching the weather and it's really
bad there where you are. Andthere were tornadoes or something.

(47:28):
I said, well, I didn't seetornadoes, but it was bad.
You think that was a tornadothat went past you?
No, it was just the windfunneling. It was probably 70, 80
mile an hour bursts of windthat would just come. They Sounded
like freight trains. I mean,seriously, you know, we typed in
Estes.
I don't know if you've everbeen in Colorado, but Estes Park,

(47:50):
Colorado, has winds like that.They can get like, 60, 70, 80 miles
an hour. And even in themiddle of that, it is just horrendous.
I mean, I can only imaginebeing in a tent.
On top of a mountain, totally exposed.
Yeah, That would be kind ofunnerving to decide whether or not

(48:15):
this was going to be your.Like you said, a body bag. And they'll
never find you because you'llbe buried by snow. And then. And
then they have to wait tillthaw, and you may or may not.
There's a million places onthe. Out on the Appalachian Trail.
You fall off, nobody's evergonna find you. It's just incredibly
dangerous. People don'trealize how. It's amazing that more

(48:38):
people don't get hurt orkilled, but. Yeah, and a lot of people
have. They. You know, people disappear.
Well done for what you guysaccomplished. What do you think the
trail taught you about yourbrother? I mean, your brother was
there. He started thisjourney. He's the one that, you know,
say, hey, I'm going to dothis. Do you think that it allowed

(49:00):
him to get the closure that heneeded to kind of get the spiritual
moment?
Yeah, he had a. He had. Hisbest spiritual moment was Father's
Day in 2018, and we were inthe Shenandoah Valley part of the
trail, the national parkthere. And it was one of those days.

(49:20):
It was really dark, and Ihappened to be hiking with a ranger,
Gene Anderson, who I ran intothe day a couple days before that,
and I ran into him, and I.Somehow we just ended up walking
together for quite a while.And then Ronnie came along, because
I'm going north, he's goingsouth. And it was dark, and Gene

(49:41):
said, this is the darkest I'veever seen it in the. In the woods
during the middle of the day.And my brother said, yeah, you probably
need a flashlight. So anyway,we separated, and then Ron. So it's
Father's Day. Ronnie washaving a really bad day. It was.
He's, you know, thinking aboutEdie, thinking about our dad, and
came around the corner.There's a picture in the book. It

(50:04):
was the only light that day.And there's a. It looks like a halo
Mike in the trail. You can seeit in the book, and it's just a golden
glow. It's huge. And it lookslike there's something standing in
the middle of. It. Could beJesus it could be, I don't know,
Buddha, what? You know,whatever your savior is, I guess.

(50:27):
But Ronnie, it was soimpactful to him that he actually
turned away, thought felt likerunning because he felt like it was
supernatural or whatever. Andthen. No, I've never run before in
my life. I'm not going to runaway from it. And he walked towards
it and then he could feelEdie. He felt like Edie was telling

(50:48):
Ronnie, it's okay. This isokay. What you're doing is okay.
You're fine. We're. I'm fine.I'm with dad. You know, know it's
going to be okay, but yourtime is not now. And God bless you,
you know, that kind of thing.I don't know. He got a huge relief
from. He felt it was a sign, aspiritual sign, spiritual experience
from his higher power that hecalls God. And. And it just relieves

(51:11):
him of a whole lot of thatweight of that grief and loss.
Profound. That's profound.
Yeah, yeah. And actuallypicture of it, so that's great. I
had that picture in the book.It is an amazing picture. It really
is. Yeah.
It give me chills.
Yeah.
Every journey has a momentwhen it stops being something you're

(51:32):
living and it becomessomething you feel kind of. Kind
of feel called to share. Aftereverything that you've lived through,
everything, the war, therecovery, the grief, and this 2100
mile spiritual passage, whatwas the moment you realized the story
needed to become the book, thebook in itself? Because it's. I think

(51:53):
that documenting it that way,you're sharing it with the world
from a personal perspective.
Yeah. Well, I don't know. Whenwe got done, you know, we were both
amazed that we had done it. Idid not complete the whole trail.
I fell down Wilcox Mountainand should have got killed that on

(52:18):
that thing, but I didn't and.But I did damage my body. And so
Ronnie finished it with hisbrother while I was getting a hip
replacement. That's the shortstory. It's a lot more complicated
than that. But I, I actually.We went off the trail for a few days
and I went back and hikedanother 300 miles, but I had done

(52:40):
a serious damage, so I onlydid 1863 miles.
That's still. I mean, what anaccomplishment that is. That's not
only. That's amazingly brilliant.
Well, yeah, it was amazing.And Ronnie finished it with his son

(53:00):
Rick. We did get into thewhites. I did Wolf Mountain was the
last mountain I did. I didMusa Lac the day before that. There's
some fantastic mountains Thereand Ronnie had to go back and do
Washington Mountain. We had togo around that. It was closed when
we went through the first timebecause the weather. You know what

(53:20):
Mount Washington is, right?The highest wind speeds ever recorded
in North America. We're onMount Washington. It snows there
every. Every month. June,July, August snows. And they close
it and then they open it backup again. So I didn't do Mount Washington,
but. So I ended up with a hipreplacement, which is. But I'm still
hiking every day, walking, Ishould say.

(53:42):
That's a good thing, trust me.I spent four years in a wheelchair
because of my injuries, and Ihave a hip replacement, two knee
replacements, a foot surgery,and two shoulder replacements. So
from my journey, call it that.So, yeah, I mean, you're still here

(54:03):
and you, you created thisincredible journey and you brought
it to us visually and youdocumented it in this book especially.
That was a great idea to takethe 5,000 pictures. How'd you narrow

(54:24):
down. You have 5,000 pictures.That would be an immense library
of books. How'd you narrowdown to what you put in the book?
Well, yeah, so we came backand I don't know, after about a year
or so, we were enjoying thepictures and talking about it quite
a bit. We still do, actuallyto this day. We. Every time we do

(54:46):
it. How did we do that? Wejust like, unbelievable. But at some
point I began to think, youknow what, this is kind of unique,
for one thing, for sure. And Ido have all these pictures. So I
got Ronnie's journal. Ronnie'sjournal was completely different
than mine, but between the twoof them, it made for kind of a complete
story. One was the technicalpart of it, and then the other was

(55:08):
kind of the spiritual, visual,daily experience type of it. Just
there's pictures of people andall the stories and a lot of humorous
things that happened and thatI put in the book. So anyway, I decided
to write a book for thefamily. So I wrote the book, picked
out the best 500 pictures,made it. So it was a daily thing.

(55:29):
Every other chapter is what,you know, where we went on a day
or two or three. And withpictures, so the reader can say,
well, they were here. If theyhad a map, they said, okay, they
were here, they went there.Here's what it looks like, these
three or four differentplaces. And then in between, I put
the other stuff in it and Iself published it. I didn't realize

(55:50):
that was doing that, but Ipaid to have it printed up and I
gave some away and gave it toMy family and Ronnie's got that huge
family, so they all got a bookand. And then I was starting to get
responses back from people Iwas. Once in a while I would give
to somebody that was. Knewsomebody that was struggling with
my addiction and. And it cameback to me. Some people were being

(56:15):
moved by it.
Right.
So in a helpful way, I can.
Understand why that would belike, what an opportunity to really
get close to nature andexperience the trail like you experienced
it.
Yeah. So. And then I ended upwith a real publisher, Wildebeest
Publishing, and now I've been,you know, getting it out there more

(56:38):
and more and sales arestarting to pick up a little bit.
It's tough, the book business,I mean, years old and I've started
a new career. I've writtensome other books and I'm getting
another one published here ina couple weeks, actually. It'll be
coming out. So.
Yeah, I think that especiallyin today's day and age, when you
have Audible and you've got,you know, a lot of people listen

(56:59):
to books, they don'tnecessarily pick up a book and read
it anymore. That would be alittle tough to get it. But I'm going
to help you. At least I hope Ican help you to get some more exposure
for it because I think it's awonderful opportunity for people
to get a better understandingof a spiritual, positive, spiritual
journey and reconnection and,you know, give people hope and so

(57:22):
forth. What do you hopereaders take away from this book?
And like your grandchildren,your brother's grandchildren, what
do you hope they take awayfrom this documentation?
I hope that it helps a lot ofpeople, especially people that are
struggling with any kind of anaddiction. They can find a path that

(57:43):
I took, that millions ofpeople have taken successfully. So
there's that aspect of it. Theother part I really hope that helps
people is, you know, you and Iare both getting golden years. We're
in the golden years and we endup seeming to spend a lot of time
in doctor's offices and stufflike that. But a lot of people don't

(58:08):
do what we're doing. See,you're. You're doing something that's
helping the world, right?You're sharing people's stories in
your podcast and you're tryingto help people be motivated to get
off their couches and dostuff. And that's what I want to
do. That's what I'm trying todo because I see it all the time.
A lot of people, they get towhere you and I are and they Just
shut down. Yeah. Look at allthe injuries and wounds that you

(58:32):
have. And you're. And you. AndI'm. Same way, man. I just went blind
for two months.
Yeah. Yeah.
I went blind one day.
You know, it. It. I thinkthat. I think we both have a wonderful
opportunity to inspire,motivate, and educate people to such
a point that it gives you alittle bit of hope that there's more

(58:53):
out to the world than sittingin front of the TV set and surfing
channels and forgetting aboutthe world that's out there that we
really should grasp. Because,you know, one more thing before you
go is. Was a foundation ofthis. Was. There's always one more
thing, and life can change inan instant. And that you should grasp
every moment that you have andshare that with people. So I think

(59:18):
that you've done that very brilliantly.
Yep.
So I appreciate that.Especially from our golden years.
Yeah. Well, you know, for twomonths, I couldn't do anything on
the computer. I had to haveemergency surgery and all that stuff.
And I didn't know what theoutcome was going to be. But I'm
driving. I got prescriptionglasses. I survived that. I walked

(59:38):
every day because I could atleast see the curb, but I couldn't
read or do any of that stuff.And now I'm doing my eight, ten hours
every day working on books andstuff, but gives me joy and working
with other men in recoveryprogram gives me incredible, incredible
joy.
Every day gives you new.
Yeah, that's what you and Ihave, right? We got that kind of

(01:00:00):
a warrior mindset. I'm goingto go out. I'm going to go out with
a fight. I'm going to fightright to the end.
Yeah. Yes. I respect that.Yes, I think we do. It's a. It's
a never give up, never say dieand continue to protect and serve,
you know, in any way that wecan. So we share that. We share that.

(01:00:22):
Absolutely.
We could talk for anotherhour. I gotta ask you a couple more
things before we leave. Okay.Before we wrap up, I asked this to
everybody. Before we wrap up,what words of wisdom would you leave
with the audience today?
Accept whatever God has givenyou and just learn how to deal with

(01:00:44):
it one step at a time. I thinkwe tend to cut ourselves short and
actually we can have a joyfullife and just take one step at a
time, try to keep our tasksand things, you know, small level.
And God doesn't want us to bemiserable when it's our time to go.
He'll figure it out and tellus one fashion or another. But in

(01:01:08):
the meantime, let's enjoy lifeone step at a time and deal and cope.
Right. Deal with what you got.
Brilliant words of wisdom. Howcan somebody find you and get this
wonderful book?
Actually, if you go and I justdid this again the other day because
it's kind of, if you justGoogle a spiritual passage, it pops

(01:01:30):
right up,.
Which is a good thing.
Yeah. Or you can probably likewhat you did if you put my name on
the Internet, there's a bunchof stuff that'll pop up. Or they
can go to my website, which isRand Timmerman, just my name, no
dots or anything, justrandtimmerman.com and there's like,
you know, there's a lot ofstuff there, some videos and all

(01:01:54):
the information about the bookand link to booksellers, including
Amazon Thrift Books and like that.
And I'll make sure thatthere's a link in the show notes
so that people have a veryeasy way to just get click and go
right to you. So that shouldbe helpful. Brad, thank you very
much for reaching out. Thankyou for what a wonderful journey

(01:02:14):
we've had today. I appreciateyou. I appreciate what you bring
to the world. Thank you foryour service in totality from your
Marine Corps days all the waythrough to today and beyond.
Thank you. Mike.
Ranger book and just acollection of photographs. It. It
isn't just a journal. It's amap. It's a spiritual map of what

(01:02:35):
it looks like to walk throughpain, through memory, through brotherhood,
and come out on the other sidewith something worth sharing. You
remind us that healing doesn'talways happen in the therapist's
office or the hospital room.Sometimes it happens on the trail.
Sometimes it happens in aquiet. Sometimes it happens when
two brothers decide to takeone more step and then another, and
then another. Your story is agift. Your honesty is a gift. And

(01:02:58):
your book, a spiritualpassage, is a reminder that it's
never too late to begin again.So thank you for walking this journey
with us today and if thisconversation resonated with you,
take, please take a moment tolike subscribe and follow the show.
Help us reach more people whoneed these stories. You can find
us on Apple Spotify, yourfavorite listening platform. You

(01:03:18):
can head over to YouTube andcatch the full video version. I'm
Michael Hurst. And one morething before you go, have a great
day. Have a great weekend.Thank you for being part of our community.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One more Thing before
you go, check out [e-mail] you
can find us, as well assubscribe to the program and rate

(01:03:40):
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.