PopEnomics: Retirement, Rockstars & The Stories That Shape Our Future

What if the soundtrack of your life could help you make smarter, more confident decisions about your financial future? In this episode, Michael sits down with Jesse Hurst, CEO of Impel Wealth Management and author of the upcoming book PopEnomics, to explore how pop culture, classic rock, and the stories we grew up with can transform the way we think about retirement, money, and the next chapter of our lives.

With more than 36 years of financial planning experience, Jesse has helped thousands of people navigate the emotional rollercoaster of midlife transitions. From Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody to The Beatles, Friends, and even Animal House, Jesse uses cultural touchstones to make complex financial ideas finally click.

Together, we dive into:

1. Retire Like a Rockstar — how pop culture can simplify financial planning
2. The Retirement Puzzle — the 12 pieces you need to stop guessing and start building
3. Breaking the Saver’s Mindset — why spending in retirement is an emotional skill
4. The Millionaire Next Door Mindset — quiet wealth, intentional choices, and long‑term thinking
5. How to give yourself permission to live the life you’ve worked for

Whether you’re in your 40s, 50s, or 60s… whether you’re overwhelmed, curious, or ready for reinvention… this conversation will help you see your future through a new lens — one shaped by meaning, memory, and the music that made you.

This is retirement planning like you’ve never heard it before.

Find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform; visit us on our YouTube channel Find everything "One More Thing" here: https://taplink.cc/beforeyougopodcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, one more thing before we go.
Is this the real life or isthis just retirement planning?
For millions of Americans intheir 40s, 50s, and 60s, the emotional
rollercoaster of what comesnext feels a lot like Queens most
iconic anthem.
And we're going to get into that.
It's dramatic, it's uncertain,and it's full of unexpected turns.
Today we're talking to someonewho believes the soundtrack of your

(00:23):
life might just hold the answers.
I'm your host, Michael Hurst.
Welcome to one more thingbefore you go.
Today's guest has spent morethan 36 years helping people move

(00:44):
life forward with clarity,confidence and smart financial storytelling.
Jesse Hirsch is the CEO ofImpel Wealth Management, a best in
state wealth advisor, and theauthor of the upcoming book Poppynomics.
A great title, by the way.
A guy that blends retirementplanning with the pop culture movements
we all grew up with.
He's written nearly 700financial lessons since 2010, using

(01:07):
movies, music and TV to makecomplex financial ideas finally click.
And today he's here to help usunderstand why your retirement might
be hiding behind the Beatleslyric or a Friends episode or even
a classic rock anthem.
Welcome to the show, Jesse.
Thank you so much.
I'm happy to be here.
Well, now I'm.

(01:28):
We have something in common.
We both have the same last name.
It's just spelled a littletiny bit different.
Little different.
So, and, and yours, yours,yours doesn't have the H E. Like
that's a.
You probably got that a lotwhen you were younger with the Patty
Hurst thing, right?
People always asking you.
Yep, yep.
Either the A or the EU or youautomatically do it.

(01:48):
They write it that way and yougo, no, no, no, that's not the way
it's spelled.
Yeah, I gotta do it this way.
But hey, it's all good.
I still think we're brother inarms, kind of sort of.
I always like to start at thebeginning of everything.
You've got an amazing journeyof what you bring about.
I'm really fascinated with thefact that you kind of tie pop culture
into us learning aboutfinancial aspects because everybody,

(02:09):
we're all, I'm an old guy.
I can admit that we're allkind of iffy as to how we plan and
how we do things, but it's oneof those things.
I'm excited about this, but Ilike to start at the beginning.
Where'd you grow up?
Yes, sir.
Any brothers, sisters?
Yeah, I grew up in a littletown called Stowe, Ohio.

(02:30):
It's suburb, just north, acouple towns north of it of Downtown
Akron.
So I'm up in northeast Ohiobetween probably about 20 minutes
north of Akron, about 30minutes south of Cleveland.
Cleveland.
So I have a, I'm the oldest ofthree, I have a younger brother and
a younger sister and you know,kind of grew up in a very lower middle

(02:56):
class, just bordering probablyjust above the poverty line.
Family.
My dad was a navy trainedelectrician and my mom was a stay
at home mom until I was 10years old or so when she went, went
back to teaching.
So as a little kid, right, wehad one car, we had a family of five
living in a two bedroom housethat I shared a nine by nine bedroom

(03:18):
with my brother and sister.
And you know, if we needed thecar for the day, we'd have to get
up at 6:30 in the morning anddrive my dad to the factory that
he worked at.
And as you cross the bridgeinto Akron, you could smell the rubber
factories from Goodyear andFirestone and B.F. goodrich and so
forth.
So you know, it's, it's waydifferent in Akron today, but that's
kind of the world I grew up in.

(03:39):
We have similar stories inregard to that.
My grew up with my parents,got an early divorce and I grew up
with a single mother.
And of course in the 70s itwas hard for any single parent, but
mothers in particular becauseyou couldn't get a checking account
till 1974.
Yeah, so I, some of that I canrelate to.
We had one car, same thing.

(04:00):
Had to learn how to do allthat stuff.
So never taught, never taughthow to do fine.
I had to learn myself how todo financing.
I had to, you know, highschool kind of, kind of taught you
how to do a checkbook but youknow, nothing really past that.
Had you always wanted to getinto finance?
Yeah, I mean I was alwaysinterested in money, banking, finance.

(04:21):
I mean I remember even as alittle kid, you know, you remember
the old piggy banks and stuffand you roll coins and you take them
down to the bank and they,they'd stamp it in your past book,
savings account and so forth.
And, and from, from the time Iwas very young, I was basically told
if you wanted any money foranything extra that you wanted to

(04:42):
do or buy, right, you had togo earn it.
So that meant I was shovelingsnow, I was raking leaves, I was
mowing lawns, you know, andthen as I got older, it was umpiring
baseball.
Oh, When I was 11 years old, Itold my dad I wanted a, a 10 speed
bike.
And my dad was like, you wanta 10 speed bike.

(05:02):
Go, go get a job and earn some money.
And so I became a paperboy forthe Akron Beacon Journal and which
was an after school newspaperat the time.
But the interesting thing is,is that you bought your papers from
the Akron Beacon Journal.
You paid the newspaper, youwent door to door and delivered and
then you had to collect fromyour clients.

(05:22):
And if, if you were good at collecting.
Right.
The difference between whatyou collected and what you paid the
Beacon Journal was your profit.
So at 11, 12 years old, youknow, I learned that if I was good
at collecting, if I providedgood service and I got extra tips
that, hey, I made more moneyand more profit from my business.
So it was a great thing tohelp you kind of learn the basics

(05:43):
of running a business andfinance and, and profit and all that.
And it's one of those thingsthat I don't think most kids today
have those kind of opportunities.
Yeah, I agree with you.
In fact, I was a paper boy toowhen I was a kid, so I grew up that
way as well.
And it's.
I don't think, I don't evenknow if you still have that puny
that delivers papers like that anymore.

(06:05):
Yeah, I know here in the area,you know, there's.
It's all done electro.
All the collecting andsubscription stuff's all done electronically.
Somebody just delivers thepapers, you know, in the Beacon Journal.
What's left of it anymore isat 6:30 in the morning paper.
And so kids don't do that anymore.
Somebody in a car drives byand throws them out.

(06:26):
Sounds a lot easier.
And pedaling a bike, I wasgoing to say.
So growing up in NortheastOhio, I was born in 1965, so I just
turned 60 last October.
So during the Blizzard of 77,I remember all the schools were closed,
all this and so forth, but Istill had to go out and deliver newspapers.

(06:46):
12 years old.
There was no that.
They didn't close thenewspaper because.
Because it was cold out.
Right.
So the good old days.
Right.
So it's.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Well, I, you know, I'm reallyinterested in learning how to retire
like a rock star.
Obviously.
I think we talked earlier.
I am of an age where even frommy perspective, I know that, you

(07:08):
know, in doing some little bitof research, you, you talk about
how no matter what age you'reat, yet you could start doing something
to help your retirement.
You know, I'm 66 years old, onthe downhill slope to 67, things
like that that you present.

(07:29):
How did you come about wanting to.
Create that environment forPeople, the environment of helping
them.
Like, I kind of picture myselfas somebody who helps people accumulate
the financial resources,income resources and asset resources,
help them paint a picture ofwhat they want in retirement life

(07:50):
and then use those resourcesto make a successful transition from
work life to retirement life,which is difficult for a lot of people.
It's difficult financially,it's difficult psychologically and
emotionally for a lot ofpeople because a lot of people kind
of develop a lot of their own.
Develop a lot of their ownself worth and a lot of their own

(08:12):
identity from who they are intheir work lives.
Yeah, I can relate to that.
I.
It took me, when I, I wasputting, as we spoke earlier in my
audience, my communityunderstands and knows that I was
forced to retire.
There was something that justwas presented to me in such a way
that I had no choice.
And even from thatperspective, it took me a really,
really long time to kind of.

(08:33):
I wasn't just a cop.
That's who I.
That's who I was.
It was my identity.
That's who I.
It was very difficult to comeout and to learn to kind of evolve
from that and to redefine mypurpose and being stuck with.
I've seen both men and womenstruggle with that.
But I think it's worse forguys in general.

(08:54):
I hate to stereotype, but likea lot of guys really derive their
self worth from, from their career.
And when that careerdisappears, you know, it's sometimes
hard to.
You know.
I had a client who, whoretired and, and in his first few
weeks at home, he waspresident of a company and he, his

(09:14):
wife reminded him, you're notCEO of this house.
Right.
Like, like hello.
Yeah, right.
You might be used Patel,giving everybody else direction and
bossing them around and what.
That doesn't work here.
Remember, I can smother you inyour sleep.
Right.
Right next to you.
It's all good.
You wrote a book, which Ithink I love.

(09:37):
You open it with Bohemia Rhapsody.
That's.
We talked about Queen and your opening.
What a brilliant opportunityto kind of.
I'm excited to learn how youpiece together pop culture and music
and things like that to seehow we can understand how retirement
feels.
Just like that.
Like uncertain and dramaticand full of mood shifts and stuff

(10:00):
like that.
Can, can we talk about how,how, how you did that?
How'd you come about that?
Well, it was, it's interesting.
So I started writing blogposts back around 2010.
Right.
And, and at the time I was, Iwas a partner in a firm we had started
in 1997.
And when we started that firmin 1997, my two business partners

(10:22):
were 46 and 48.
I was 31.
I was the young kid in thefirm at the time, right?
But when we got to 2010 and westarted putting out a weekly post,
you know, the three of us justkind of took turns writing.
So I was writing, you know,one or two a month.
And then by the time we got to2016, 2017, my partners were 68,

(10:45):
69, retiring, and.
And I was kind of left on my own.
So I started Impal Wealth Management.
As a matter of fact, February10th, it'll be nine years that we
started in Power Wealth Management.
That was me, my three teammembers that helped me with servicing
my 180 clients.
And at the time, it was about$160 million of investment assets

(11:07):
that we oversaw.
So since I was the onlypartner at that point, I was now
writing every week.
And then what happened waswhen we got to Covid In March of
2020, you remember the wholetwo weeks to bend the curve, right?
And next thing you know, youcan't be face to face with anybody.
You can't do face to facemeetings, and, you know, communication

(11:30):
was somewhat limited.
I kind of doubled down on itat that point and started writing
two blog posts a week just tomake sure I was communicating with
my clients regularly.
So.
In between 2010 and 2020,every once in a while I might find
a topic that tied to a song ora movie or a Broadway show or something

(11:51):
that I thought might be alittle humorous.
And.
And so I did that once in a while.
But then in the real twoturning points in March of 2020,
in March of 2020, you know, atthe very end of the month, after
the economy had shut down,government had shut down most employment

(12:12):
and so forth.
They pad.
The government passed theCARES act, and that was the stimulus
checks and the enhancedunemployment benefits and the PPP
checks and so forth.
And at the same time, theFederal Reserve bank cut interest
rates to zero and kind ofopened up the floodgates of liquidity.
So we had this massive amountof fiscal stimulus from the government
and monetary stimulus from theFederal Reserve Bank.

(12:34):
And Jay Powell, who was theFederal Reserve bank chairman, and
Steve Mnuchin, who was thetreasury secretary at the time, came
out and did a joint press conference.
And they said, this is anunconventional recession.
It's an unconventionaleconomic shutdown, and we're going
to need unconventional weaponsto fight it.

(12:55):
And literally when they saidthat, the first thing that popped
into my mind was the scene InAnimal House, where after they've
all gotten kicked out ofcollege, where Otter says, you know,
we could fight them withunconventional weapons, but that
could take years and costmillions of lives.
And so I wrote a blog postcomparing the actions of the federal
government and the FederalReserve bank to the frat brothers

(13:16):
in Animal House.
And people loved it.
They thought it was funny.
My wife thought I was out ofmy mind.
Rachelle edits everything Iwrite, right?
And she was like, you can't do that.
You can't compare them to thefrat brothers.
And I just sounded funny in my head.
So I thought, okay, let's try this.
And we got great feedback on it.
And then what happened was afew months later, in.

(13:37):
In later that summer, July,August, there was a report that came
out that showed that the U.S.economy at the end of 2019 was at
$21.7 trillion.
Right.
By June of 2020, six monthslater, the economy had shrunk from
21.7 to $19.5 trillion.

(13:58):
And I was thinking about it,and I went, you know, it's like the
COVID shutdowns dug a $2.2trillion hole in the US economy.
And the first thing thatpopped into my head was the Friends
episode where Joey and Monicaand Chandler go walking on the beach,
and Joey digs a big hole andthe waves come rushing in, Monica
gets stung by a jellyfish.

(14:18):
And I was sitting there going,well, Covid dug a $2.2 trillion hole,
just like Joey.
And just like the ocean camerushing in, the federal government
and the Federal reserve bankstuffed $6 trillion of stimulus into
a $2 trillion hole.
What could possibly go wrong?
And so I wrote.
I don't know if you rememberthis, but all the Friends episodes
are called the One where.

(14:38):
Right.
So I wrote a blog post thatwas titled the One where Joey and
the Economy Dug a Hole.
And people loved it.
And it was like.
So then I started going, okay,if I can tie a financial investment
retirement planning topic tosome sort of pop culture theme, it
makes it fun.
It makes it interesting.

(14:59):
More people open it, morepeople read it, and more people remember
it.
And.
And so it became much moreintentional after that.
I would say it's absolutelybrilliant doing it that way, because
we all.
I mean, especially Friends, iconic.
Our daughter, our youngestdaughter has every one of those episodes.

(15:21):
She can repeat the word linesword for word for word for word.
Oh, yeah.
Something that sticks in her head.
Yeah.
We bought the house.
We had the first house wemoved into here in the Phoenix area.
It was like, we're trying tofigure out, we got to fix this.
We got to fix this.
We got to fix this.
We got this.
First thing that came to mymind was the Money Pit with Tom Hanks.
I actually have a blog postabout housing that's themed to the

(15:43):
Money Pit movie with Tom Hanksand Shelley Long.
Right?
Yep, yep.
And.
And so absolutely makes sense,because pop culture, pop culture
sticks with us.
Pop movies stick with us.
Film sticks with us.
How come we all always down,down the road, anything we talk about,
you get somebody to say,what'd you say?
You think of Robert De Niro.
You're talking to me.

(16:04):
Are you.
You know, you talking to me.
Here?
Just at the end of December, you.
I don't know if you saw anyarticles about this, but the US treasury,
the US Mint stopped printing pennies.
Yeah.
Stop minting pennies, becauseit cost, like, 3.4 cents to.
For everyone.

(16:24):
So I wrote a blog post titledMemories of Penny Lane, and I used
the Beatles song and askedpeople to share their memories about
pennies and collecting and so forth.
People sent stories and stuff, but.
And the fun part for me waswhen my oldest son, who was a touring
Broadway actor, was a seniorin high school.
He was a trumpet player in themarching band, and they did a Beatles

(16:47):
halftime show, and.
And he got to play the trumpetsolo for Penny Lane.
Right.
So, like, every time I hearthat, that's what I think about.
Oh, very cool.
You know, it's just kind ofconnection points for people.
Very, very cool.
Was a brilliant idea.
So how can.
I mean, we just kind oftouched on it a little bit.
But how can pop culture likethe stories we grew up with, those.
Those films, those.

(17:08):
Those comments, how does thathelp us make smarter, more confident
decisions about our financial future?
How do you tie that into it?
Yeah, So I think it's not so much.
I think that the pop culturereference points have the lessons
embedded in them, but I thinkthe pop culture reference points

(17:32):
can tie to the lesson and makeit memorable for people.
So I wrote a blog post last year.
So last year was probably thefirst time in 10, 12, 14 years where
international stocks hadsignificantly outperformed U.S. stocks.
And so I wrote a blog post,and I use the Led Zeppelin song Rock

(17:54):
and Roll.
Right.
It's been a long time.
Been a long, lonely, lonelytime since international stocks had
outperformed.
And the funny thing is, thenext week, a retired teacher who's
a client of mine who's 73years old, came into my office, and
she looked at me and she goes,you know, I sang Led Zeppelin songs
around my house all day lastweek because of your blog post.

(18:14):
And I went, perfect, right?
Because that, maybe that meantthat a 73 year old lady, instead
of reading some dry, boringcharts and numbers based economic
topic, she read it because itwas fun and it was memorable.
And a week later she stillremembered the lesson because she
had walked around the houseselling, you know, singing Led Zeppelin

(18:37):
songs all day.
So, you know, and I wrote the book.
If you've got the, you've gotthe COVID up there on the, on the
screen, right?
I wrote the book.
And there's puzzle pieces onthe front of the book, the book,
the 12 chapters of the bookare written as the 12 puzzle pieces

(18:57):
that each person has to puttogether and solve for to create
their own unique retirement vision.
And really what I start withis kind of a, it's, it's, it's more
of an everyday analogy.
It's kind of like how do you start?
Where do you start?
And I, I remind people of thisall the time, right?

(19:18):
Like if you, if you are in abig airport, Phoenix or Denver or
Dallas or Atlanta or Chicago,right, and you have to make a connecting
flight, you get off yourplane, you get on the concourse,
what's the first thing you do?
You look for the concourse map.
And once you find theconcourse map, you look for the little

(19:40):
dot that says you are here.
Because if you're trying toget to gate B37 and you don't know
where you are, you don't knowhow to get there.
And so the first thing we dois try to help people inventory where
they are, get a good sense ofwhere they are, what their income
resources and asset resourcesare, so that we can then start creating

(20:03):
some visioning exercises forwhere it is they want to go.
And then we can start helpingthem take little steps to get there,
get some small wins undertheir belt and start building momentum
for the future.
Well, I like the fact that Ithink I read somewhere you said people
don't remember charts, theyremember stories.
Yeah.
And pop culture, I like this.

(20:25):
Pop culture is the universallanguage of memory.
We all remember things thatwould relate to something else.
We just talked about it a fewminutes ago.
Something in a movie,something in a song, something in
a film that we can relate to,we can understand a little bit better.
And I think understanding afinancial aspect of our lives, understanding

(20:45):
how that plays a part, I thinkthat, that it's about identity and
emotion, isn't it?
More than, more so than a kindof a Spreadsheet.
Oh, oh, yeah, yeah.
And, and one of the thingsthat I think is really interesting
in life, watching this.
So I, I just turned 60.
As I said, I started doingthis right out of college.
I've done this.
Last August was 38 years.

(21:06):
So.
So you watch this with peopleover time and a lot of times people
give kind of word credence tothe idea that.
Give credence the idea thatthey make fact based intellectual
decisions, but that's reallynot the way.
Actually studies of the humanbrain show that people make emotional

(21:28):
decisions then justify themwith logic, not the other way around.
So there's a lot of emotionalvalues based, family based things
that tie into, you know,creating that retirement vision.
And then people need, they,they need some level of the charts,

(21:49):
graphs, numbers and basicskills to, to fulfill that.
But that's not where we start.
Well, you know, it, it'sinteresting because, I mean, I think
we all get a little distractedfrom charts because especially if
we don't understand them.
You know, you could put achart up in front of me and you can
say, this does this, this doesthis, this does this, or here are

(22:09):
some numbers for you to look at.
We all know that people arevisual, people are audible.
Sometimes people can do both.
Your approach to this process,I think is a brilliant way for people
to kind of have a betterunderstanding of where they stand
and not be so apprehensive.
Congratulations on a happybelated birthday.

(22:31):
I don't know how soon it was.
It was, but 60 is a milestone, man.
It.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Well, it's funny becausepeople ask me, they were like, hey,
you're turning 60 years old.
You starting to think aboutretiring yourself.
And I happen to beextraordinarily blessed in that.
First of all, I love what I do.
I love my clients.
I've been doing this longenough that I have dozens and dozens

(22:53):
of clients that have workedwith me, you know, 15, 20, 25, 30
years or longer.
And, and you know, on ourvalue statement for our company,
you know, one of our corevalues is clients are family.
Right.
And it's like, hey, I get todo something that I love now.
I, I said, I don't sit still.
Well, I, I would be horriblebeing retired.

(23:16):
My wife would probably bescared to death if I was retired.
I said, she'd probably love itif I work 55 hours a week instead
of 75 hours a week.
But, but yeah, we'll take itin small steps.
I think one of the videos youhave on your site, it has a, a woman
who talks about the.
The whole company beingfamily, and not just company, but

(23:39):
the clients as well.
The.
That you guys, the perspectiveis that everybody.
It's here that works with usor for us is family, which I think
is a brilliant.
And one of the things that.
That I talk about with my teama lot.
Right.
Cause there's three certifiedfinancial planners and.
And five teams.
Team members that help supportus, is that I talk about the difference

(24:01):
between internal and external clients.
Right.
My team is my internal clients.
And I always remind them thatI better be treating them at least
as well as I treat my external clients.
All the client families we serve.
If I want to walk the talk andmodel what I want them to do, to
serve our clients with excellence.

(24:22):
Yeah, that's a good way ofdoing that.
I.
When I was a cop, I kind ofdid that.
I parked the car and I wouldget out of my car, walk.
I'd walk downtown, I'd walkinto the shop, the stores, walk the
neighborhood and get to knowpeople because I felt that, you know,
we're all human beings.
We're all people.
You know, we all have a job todo, but we're still people.
And when you talk to us aslike people, when you talk to someone

(24:46):
like a person and not justlike a client, I think it means more
deep down inside than it doesif he just spoke to them as a client.
Yeah, well, and it's interesting.
Like, I call every client ontheir birthday.
You know, I talked with.
I talked with three clients onSunday who happened to have birthdays.
One was 89, one was 65, andone was 53.

(25:08):
But I called and talked to allthree of them and had some really
fascinating conversationsbecause it wasn't.
I wasn't calling them aboutwhat the Federal Reserve bank was
doing or what the outlook forinflation is or whatever.
It was just like, hey, whatare you doing today?
What's going on with your kidsand family?
What exciting things do youhave planned and so forth?
And, you know, it's, It's.
It's those connection pointsthat I think make you different than

(25:31):
the average, you know,financial advisor who wants to know
how much is in your 401k planand when can you roll it over to
me?
Well, it's personal.
It's personal.
I think that brings a personaltouch to it for the people that are
in their midlife.
You know, I told you I was.
I was forced to take an early retirement.
And it was a complete shock tous because at the time that I was
a cop, it was Nothing's goingto happen to me.

(25:53):
And we didn't take the extradisability insurance and things like
that.
You never know.
Life can change in an instanttype thing.
For those of us that.
That are in their midlife, Iknow that it can feel overwhelming.
From that perspective, how canyou help?
How do you think?
We may have kind of coveredit, but how does pop culture help

(26:16):
us understand from that perspective?
Do you think it's easier fromsomebody in midlife to really take
a pop culture approach or.
I think what's interestingfrom the book's perspective, in the
opening chapter of the book,which is the determining where you

(26:36):
are, I use a.
A discussion about thedifference between hopes, dreams
versus specific goals, right?
Because a lot of people will.
Will say, hey, you know, I'mwhatever, 42, 47 years old, and I'd
like to retire someday andhave a comfortable lifestyle.

(26:57):
And I'm like, well, that'skind of a.
A wish or an aspiration.
It's not really a goal.
It's not specific.
It's not measurable.
It's.
You don't know whether or notyou'll exactly achieve it or certify
it, whatever.
And so helping them start withdefining goals and getting the picture
for what retirement looks liketo them, much more specific, right?

(27:19):
I want to retire when I'm 64years old.
I want to have my mortgagepaid off, and I want to have $10,000
a month of income so I can dowhat I want during my retirement
years.
That's specific, measurable, achievable.
And.
And I use the analogy again ofputting together a puzzle to help
start casting that vision.
Because I.
And I'll ask people, I'm like,think back to when you were a kid

(27:41):
doing a puzzle or when youwere doing puzzle with your kids
or grandkids.
What's the first thing you do?
And they say, people are veryfunny about this, right?
They say, well, you got toturn over all the pieces, right,
so you can see the pictures.
Or I got to find all the edgepieces, or I got to find the four
corner pieces or whatever it is.
And I'm like, well, I thinkthe first thing you should probably
do is look at the box, right?

(28:02):
You should probably figure outwhat we're solving for, what we're
trying to put together.
And that's what we try to helppeople do through that measuring
process.
And the song that I used inframing all of this in the first
chapter of the book is the oldCurtis Mayfield song, People get
ready, right?
People.
People get ready.
There's a train coming andit's your future retirement and we

(28:26):
need to define what that lookslike so you can get on board, right?
And so, you know, there's,there's lots of things along those
lines that we can do to helppeople kind of figure out where they
are and then cast the visionfor the future so we can start down
the path together.
Well, I mean, I like the factthat the 12 puzzle pieces are a framework

(28:47):
for understanding where you'reat and where you're going.
I think that makes it a littlebit easier for, for us to kind of
understand because again,where I think there's a large portion
of us as human beings that areafraid, what can I expect?
What do I expect?
How do I know this is going tobe right for me?
And if you're forced, notreally forced, but if you coming

(29:10):
up to retirement, you've beendoing it for so long, it's always,
I, I don't have this anymore.
How am I going to make sure mybills are paid?
How am I going to make sure mymoney mortgage is either paid off
or if I still have one, howare we going to keep paying that
and still be able to eat andgo to the movies and go out to dinner
or take a trip?
I remind people, I remindpeople all the time, right?

(29:32):
People spend all this timethinking about and planning for like
a European vacation or a twoweek vacation out west or whatever
it is, right?
Well, your retirement, goingback to the Aerosmith analogy, right,
you, your, your, yourretirement becomes your permanent
vacation, right?
The, the old Aerosmith albumfrom years ago.

(29:53):
And, and what are we going todo when you don't have that paycheck
coming in, right?
What are the income sourcesthat might come from Social Security
or a state pension or forthose who still are worked long ago
enough or lucky enough to havea small pension from a, from a company
and then you know, you look atand go, hey, if I, if I want whatever

(30:16):
the number is, right, If Iwant $10,000 a month of income, I'll
just use round number tomaintain standard of living and do
everything I want to do withmy kids, grandkids, create shared
experiences and memories andso forth, right?
If they retire and theirSocial Security is $3,500 a month
and their spouse's is $1,500 amonth, well that gives them $5,000

(30:39):
a month of income sourceswhich then you got to have enough
asset resources to make up theother 5,000.
And how do we, how do we solvefor that?
Like what's the number you need.
And there was an old insurancecompany that used to have, I think
Fidelity used to do this as well.
I think ing the old insurancecompany used to have commercials
about what's your number?

(30:59):
And, and you know, I always, Ialways framed it in the terms of,
you remember the oldSchoolhouse Rock, Vinnie Club stuff?
Right?
I always, I always turned itand framed it in terms of my hero
zero.
Like how many zeros do youneed in your, in your bank account
to be able to have enoughresources to do the things you want
to do in retirement?

(31:20):
And I think that's one of theother things people ask all the time,
like what, how much do Ireally need?
And it's kind of like you needwhat you need to do the things you
want to do.
Like what your situation, yourgoals, your activities, how you like
to travel, what your kid andfamily situation is, the charities
you want to give to, whatever.

(31:40):
It's all unique to you.
And it's kind of like it's acustom made suit.
Doesn't matter if it fitsanybody else, it just has to fit
Michael.
Right.
You know, from a personalperspective, a family perspective,
you know, I appreciate thatapproach because I know that there
are other financial plannersthat we have spoken with and their
main goal is how much money doyou want to raise?

(32:01):
How much money do you want to have?
How much, how much?
It's.
I'm on the board here in thiscommunity and we have some individuals
that are bankers on the boardthat whenever we do our budgets and
things like that, their bottomline is how much money we're going
to make and how fast we'regoing to do it.
Oh, yeah.

(32:21):
And then they kind of go, thenwe can turn around and charge or
increase the cost to each oneof the community members in order
to cover that.
Oh, sure, I had to make thempause sometimes.
I think it's not just abouthow much and how fast, it's also
about what works for the community.
And it seems like you helpcreate that puzzle piece that understands

(32:42):
that there are round edges andthere are square edges and you have
to make them fit where they'resupposed to fit so that everybody's
happy.
And I think it's a reallydecent approach.
I, I appreciate that.
From that perspective, do youthink that there's an emotional shift
from accumulation to distribution?
How do we handle thattransition that terrifies people?

(33:05):
You mentioned earlier, that'swhat brought me up.
My salary was cut immediately,less than half when I retired with
a disability.
And it was a shock to ourSystem like an immediate shock.
Yeah, well, you said you did.
I heard you say you didn'ttake the extra disability insurance.
Because I'm invincible.

(33:26):
I'm young, I'm healthy.
Nothing's going to happen to me.
All that stuff, right?
And we all think that.
And just along those lines,even the idea.
And I'm going to come back toyour question about the accumulation
versus the distribution,because it's a great question, but,
you know, my whole career andwhat we do in helping people is all

(33:48):
tied to, to.
It's all tied on helpingpeople cast a vision for the future.
And then what are their goals,what are their resources, what are
the assumptions we make andwhat are the steps we have to take
to get you there, whether it'sfive, 10, 15 years down the road
or whatever?
And it's all kind of.
It's all kind of based on theassumption that we're in control

(34:10):
of that.
And as you learned veryquickly, right.
We're not all always incontrol of that.
There's other things that can happen.
An accident, you know, ahealth situation, a job loss.
I just had a client email methis afternoon.
This is a very successfulcouple who just unexpectedly got
downsized, right?

(34:31):
And you know, he and his wifeare 53 and 52 years old, and they
had plans for an earlyretirement and all of a sudden things
could change really quicklyfor them because that wasn't part
of the assumptions and goalsthat we had.
So, so, so, you know, I, Ithink to remember that, that these
are, these are assumptions,but we're not always in control of

(34:54):
everything in the future is isfirst thing.
Second thing that you addressthat I, that I think is really important,
if you saw me smile about it,it's because this issue of helping
people shift mindsets, when Ialways say there's two big phases
of financial life that peoplego through, right?

(35:15):
You've got this accumulationphase of life where you're.
No matter what you make,you're spending less than what you
make.
You save and invest the restyour assets.
You, you pay down yourmortgage, you pay down debt.
You don't make crazy buyingdecisions based on credit cards.
You don't make crazy investingdecisions off, off, you know, tips

(35:37):
you got off online, websiteor, you know, tips from the golf
course or whatever.
And the cumulative effect ofgood habits over long periods of
time is you will almostinevitably build wealth.
You don't even have to be agreat investor.
You just have to have goodhabits over long periods of time.
But the problem that a lot ofpeople have is they get from the

(36:00):
accumulation phase of life tothe distribution phase of life.
They, they retire and they'veaccumulated these assets and now
they have a hard time flippingthe switch.
Right?
They go, well, I have theseassets because I did these habits
for 25, 30, 40 years.
And if I change those habits,I might not have those resources

(36:22):
anymore.
So getting people to feelcomfortable spending at a certain
level what they have andgiving them permission to spend is
a real challenge for a lot ofmy clients.
I can relate to that andunderstand that because I think that
we, I mean, I still, I'mguilty of it myself.

(36:45):
Even now we've got our housepaid off and I still am terrified
to spend the money we have insavings because I know what happened
to me before.
So it's taken me a long time,my wife, but we have it, it's okay,
we got this, we got that.
I still have that mindset ofwhat happened to me when I had to

(37:06):
retire and all of a sudden itwas cut off kind of a thing.
So I think that, you know,other people, and obviously I know
I'm not the only one.
How do we tune out that kindof noise?
That kind of noise, theheadlines, the fear, the, you know,
that kind of stuff.
I think a lot of it just comesfrom getting a handle on.

(37:29):
Like we help people create aretirement income plan and it says,
you go back to the example weused before.
You've got, you and yourspouse have 5,000amonth of income
coming in from Social Securityand so forth.
And we want, you know,5,000amonth from our investment portfolio
so we can create this.

(37:50):
Yeah.
Have you ever heard ofsomething called the 4% rule for
withdrawals from retirementincome assets?
I have not.
It's, it's based on studiesthat started back in the early 90s.
It's been reaffirmed multiple,multiple times.
And basically what it says isif you, if you have, throw out a,
throw out a number, let's justsay you had a million dollars in

(38:10):
retirement investment savings.
If you took 4% a year fromthat, which is 40,000 a year to start
every year, you could increasethat by, inflate by the rate of inflation,
call it 3% a year.
And that given a reasonableasset allocation that that money

(38:31):
would last without running outover a 30 year retirement life expectancy.
So part of it is just helpingpeople visualize.
You know, the idea behind thatis, is that if you earn 7%, 8% on
your investments during yourretirement years, if you withdraw
4, then the 3 or 4% that youearned that, that you didn't withdraw

(38:57):
stays in your account and youraccount goes up by 3 or 4%.
So next year you can take 3 or4% of a slightly larger amount without
depleting your principal.
So if you can forecast thatforward for people and they start
seeing it work.
I had a client, I'll give youa real brief story.
It's one of my favorite stories.
I had a couple that areclients of mine and between the husband

(39:22):
and wife, and they're boththeir social securities and he actually
had a small pension incomefrom the years he worked for B.F.
goodrich.
Both their social securitiesand pensions ran about 6,500, 6,600amonth.
It was about 80,000 a yearthat they had of income coming in
from pension and Social Security.
Well, they had another two anda half million dollars of investment

(39:44):
assets with us.
They were debt free.
They had two kids who wereboth educated and successful and
didn't need mom and dad's money.
And, and so, you know, if youtake two and a half million dollars
at 4% a year, it's $100,000plus the 80,000 of pension and Social
Security.
So they could be living on$180,000 a year.

(40:06):
And they're not coming closeto spending this like, but they're,
they're barely spending halfthat amount.
And, and I talked with them, Iforecasted it and I started getting
them to spend a little more money.
They saw they didn't depletetheir assets and they got more encouraged
by it.
And finally last summer theycame in and said, we have some big

(40:26):
news for you.
And I'm like, what's going on?
And this is a couple that havebeen clients of mine since 1991,
I think, and we've kind of allgrown up together.
They're in their late 60s now.
And they said, we're taking athree week trip to Australia and
New Zealand.
I said, that's great.
I said, I know you guys havetalked about that before.
They said, well, the reallybig news is we decided to fly first

(40:48):
class, which is like 25,$26,000 for, for flying from Ohio
to Australia first class.
And I said that's great, great.
I said, what finally gave youthe comfort level to do that?
And they said, well, first ofall, we could just hear you over
and over saying to us, it'sokay, you're allowed to spend this.

(41:09):
And this was the key.
The wife finally turned to meand she said, well, we finally came
to the realization that if wedon't Use our money to fly first
class.
Eventually our kids andgrandkids will, you know, and that
was kind of moment for them,you know.
Oh, so.

(41:29):
Oh, that's funny.
Yeah, that's.
That's it.
That's a really good story.
We kind of have to giveourselves permission to be able to
spend it.
Not that we don't want ourkids to have it, but yeah, I.
This all the time.
And I use this in the secondchapter of the book.
A really good friend of minewho was a really good estate planning
attorney who unfortunately I lost.

(41:50):
He was only 63 years old.
He's one of my two closefriends that I lost to Covid back
in the early part of 2021,before the vaccines came out and
stuff.
But.
But he used to say to myclients for years, he'd say, look,
in the whole history ofmankind, there's only three things
we've ever been able to figureout that you can do with money, right?
You can save it, you can spendit, or you can give it away.

(42:11):
And if you don't give it awaywhile you're living, you'll give
it away when you're gonebecause you can't take it with you.
So if you get to the pointwhere between your pensions and social
securities on the income sideand your assets on the other side,
if you've got enough, youdon't need to save anymore, which
then that means there's onlytwo things left.
That's save it or spend it orgive it away.

(42:32):
And so it's like, what are wegoing to use these resources for
that makes life meaningful foryou, your kids, grandkids, charities
and so forth.
And what do you want to dowith the surplus, right?
And sometimes you.
It takes years of talking withpeople to get them to the point where
they feel comfortable with that.
I think that, yeah, it'sinteresting because it's hard to

(42:52):
break the savers mindset.
You know, as a kid growing up,my father was always save, save,
say, put the savings account.
I tell my kids that.
I tell my kids the same thingin the bank.
You get extra money put in the bank.
You know, I.
If we very rarely do, we go toa casino, but if we go to a casino,
just when we visited Vegas orsomething, I do that thing where

(43:16):
I say I'm gonna spend $25.
It might be a little bit more,but I got $25.
And then when I start winning,I take the winnings and put it in
the other pocket.
And I keep playing on what Ihave left.
When I'm done.
I walk away with something intheir pocket that I took winnings
from because I still have this saver.
Save, save, save, save, save.
Waste your money.

(43:38):
There's a lot of financialconferences in Las Vegas, so I'm
out there usually at leastonce a year.
And I've been there probably15, 18 times in my life.
I still have never so much asdropped a quarter in a slot machine.
And it's just.
And it's one of those thingswhere if I spent a few hundred bucks
on a really nice meal, I'd be fine.

(43:59):
If I spent a few hundred buckson a show that I really wanted to
see, I'd be fine.
It was.
I lost a couple hundreddollars gambling, I'd be out of my
mind.
And part of it is I'm justreally competitive, and I hate to
lose.
And the other part is I'm justarrogant enough about my math skills
that I think I should be ableto sit down at a blackjack table
and figure it out.

(44:19):
So I just go, that's a bad combination.
I probably shouldn't start.
Yeah.
I relate to you on severalfactors in that regard.
Because I grew up the way Igrew up, and what has happened to
me is kind of a.
To.
No disrespect to anyonelistening to me, it's a waste of
money to gamble because I grewup with this in my head.

(44:44):
That's why I start with 25bucks and I leave with 25 bucks,
or I lose 25 bucks, and that's it.
I would rather do it just likeyou said.
I would rather have a goodmeal, have a good show, because then
I walk away with somethingmore valuable, like a full stomach,
comfortable.
And it's one of the things wetalk with clients about all the time,
is as you're.

(45:04):
If you have surplus and youhave money that you can.
You can use with kids andgrandkids, I'll ask clients all the
time.
I'm like, do you remember whatyou got for Christmas when you were
10 years old?
Do you remember what you gotfor your 12th birthday?
And nobody remembers thatstuff, but I'll say, do you remember
piling in the family vehicleto take a trip or a vacation or whatever?

(45:26):
And people can tell youstories all day long.
And I remind them, the reasonthat is, is because the value of
stuff goes down over time,while the value of shared memories
and experiences always goes upover time.
Absolutely.
One more thing before you go.
We started for that reason.
Life can change in an instant.
Spend the time, say what youwant to say, take the time with your

(45:49):
family, your friends, becauseyou may never get the opportunity
back again with that.
So, yep, from thatperspective, I read something about
the millionaire next door mindset.
Quiet wealth, intentionalchoices, long term thinking.
How does that kind ofphilosophy shape a healthier retirement?
Yeah, well, it's interestingbeing here in the Midwest, you know,

(46:13):
Northeast Ohio, rust belt.
You know, you had all thesteel factories up in Cleveland.
You had all the rubberfactories down here in Akron and
stuff.
You know, that millionairenext door mindset.
I don't know if you've everread the book.
It's Thomas Stanley book From,it's either 1997 or 98, but he kind
of posits that there's twotypes of people, right?

(46:35):
There's people who live veryaffluent lifestyles, right?
You might have a dual incomefamily, they make 200, $300,000 a
year, but they got a gianthouse with a giant mortgage and maybe
a second mortgage.
They've got two reallyexpensive cars, they take really
fancy trips, they send theirkids to private school, and they
live this kind of like rockstar, affluent lifestyle.

(46:58):
But they don't ever accumulatewealth because there's, there's,
you know, they're making250,000 a year and they're spending
280,000 a year and they never,never get there, right?
The, the, the wealthy peopleare the people that no matter what
they make, they spend lessthan what they make.
They save and invest the difference.
They put money in their 401ks,their IRAs, they have reasonable

(47:22):
diversification, they staydisciplined with it.
They don't make crazyemotional buying and investing decisions.
And that accumulates wealthalmost inevitably.
And I've had clients say tome, clients have been with me 15,
18, 20 years.
They get to that retirementcrossover point, that transition,
and they'll look at me andthey'll go, I never thought this

(47:42):
day would come.
Thank you so much for helpingus get here.
And I remind them that wherewe are today is probably at least
2/3 your habits and maybe it'sa third.
We gave you really good advice.
We helped you make gooddecisions, we helped you with good
tax planning or the rightinvestment asset allocation.
But it's kind of like, it'skind of like, you know, if you're

(48:06):
a doctor, you can give apatient the best advice on, you know,
health and wellness and so forth.
But if they eat a pizza anddrink a six pack of beer and smoke
two packs a day and neverexercise, you can't out doctor those
bad habits.
It's the same thing on thefinancial side.
So I think that Millionairenext door mindset really sets people

(48:29):
up for success because it.
The habits themselves, evenregardless of.
Of the advice from somebody like.
Like our teen.
Right.
Really sets them up to.
To build wealth over time.
I agree.
I think you and trying to keepup with the Joneses or keep up with
the Smiths, I think it'sdetrimental to us in the long run.

(48:49):
Well, social media has beenbrutal with that.
Right.
Because I don't know.
I know you said you have two daughters.
How old are they?
33 and 35.
Okay.
Okay.
So I have.
I, Rochelle and I have three children.
My sons will be 30, 35, and 33in April, and our daughter will be

(49:10):
31 in July.
And if you ask one of them totake a picture, they grab their iPhone
and they take 12 pictures.
Right.
And then they look for thebest two, and then they edit it to
make sure you look good.
Right.
I think when we were kids, wehad Instamatic cameras or Polaroid.
You took one picture, and ifyou look stupid, that's just the
way it was.
You didn't have.

(49:30):
Right.
But people take these picturesand they, they, they.
They create this vision ofthis great life and these great experiences.
And then what happens ispeople get on social media and they're
like, well, why isn't my lifethat good?
Right?
And they want.
They want what?
Other people.
And it's not reality.
No, no, no.

(49:51):
Yeah, it really isn't.
And again, it's detrimentaltrying to keep up with the Joneses
because it just creates thisunrealistic vision of what you should
or should not be doing when reality.
I could tell you from personalexperience, reality is we need to
appreciate what we have rightnow and the people we have in and
around us right now, and thatwe can make our own memories without

(50:14):
having to go broke and doing it.
So I appreciate that.
I know that you offer a lot ofhelp for someone that's trying to
kind of figure out wherethey're at and what they're doing
in life.
We can do this at any age.
40, 50, 60, kind of as a situation.

(50:35):
Tell us how they can get ahold of you, how they can benefit
from coming to your websiteand reading this wonderful, fantastic
Poponomics.
Yeah, so.
So the book's available on Amazon.
Poponomics.
It's available through otherbook vendors, but Amazon's where
most people would find it.

(50:56):
Impel Wealth Management is myfirm, so it's just impelwealth.com.
you see it down there under Mypicture on the screen.
And really as much as I alwayssay, you know, no matter where you
are, you can take steps tomove forward, get better and improve
your situation, there is sometruth to the fact that the younger

(51:19):
you start that process, thebetter off you are just because of
the time value and compoundingof money over time, right?
So if you're 35 or 40, youhave 20, 25, 30 years of work until
you retire.
If you start when you're 55,maybe you have seven to 10 years.
So there is some benefit tostarting earlier.

(51:40):
One of the problems that we'veseen is that, you know, there's young
people out there, young, youngcouples, young families, you know,
30, 35, 40 years old, who havereal financial issues, right?
How do I, how do I buy myfirst house?
How do I save for my kidscollege education?

(52:00):
How do I take advantage of thecompany benefit plans, my 401k and
company benefits that are included?
You know, just do I need life insurance?
What kind of estate documents?
Do I need a will?
Do I need whatever.
And a lot of people won't talkwith them because they don't have
large incomes and large assets yet.
And so we actually created asecond, we actually created a next

(52:27):
gen offering for our, for ourclients, kids and grandkids.
It's really geared for people25 to 40 years old.
And it's called SimplifyFinance where we help young families
on a subscription basis, justlike they pay for their Netflix and
their gym membership and allthat stuff and they pay a monthly
subscription fee and we helpthem get started because those are

(52:48):
the people that if they startyoung and build good habits, they're
over time going to accumulatewealth and then they're going to
need us a lot more as that, asthat grows.
So that's something that'savailable for our younger people
as well.
You know, a lot of peoplethink, well, I can't talk to somebody
until I have 250 or $500,000.
Well, that might be true ifyou're going to one of the big wirehouses

(53:09):
or one of the big banks, butwe actually have a service that we've
created to help people with that.
Now, do you do this not justin the Ohio area, but you do it outside
of there as well, correct?
Oh yeah.
We have clients all over the country.
I think I have clients in 32different states and so forth.
Yesterday we did our 2026investment and market Economy Lookout

(53:33):
podcast, not podcast webinarthat we did for our clients and centers
of Influence and We had peopletuned in from all over the country.
You know, Zoom's great.
You know, it's.
It's really.
It's so much easier to start arelationship and build a relationship
with somebody when you cankind of see them face to face on
Zoom and at least connect withthem versus just a phone call.

(53:56):
So.
So, yeah, we.
We have clients.
I have clients in states, andI've never met them face to face,
but I've been working withthem for years because they're inevitably
a friend or a cousin or abrother of somebody who was a client
of mine who moved to that area.
Well, I mean, the age of thedigital age.
The digital age has its benefits.

(54:17):
Yep.
We're talking to each otherright here, sitting across from each
other, and it works really well.
Yep.
This has been absolutely wonderful.
I wish I could talk foranother hour, but I know that we
can't at the moment.
But you.
You could come back and we can.
We could talk again.
Hey.
Well.
And one of the things I. I do.
One of the last things I'lltell you is on our website, on impelwealth.com

(54:41):
under the Resources tab,there's a blog.
You know, our blog page is onthere, and I generally write two
blog posts a week, so you cansubscribe to it.
The.
So somebody asked me one time,they said, like, after writing hundreds
and hundreds of blog poststhrough the years, why did you decide
to write a book?
And I pulled out my copy ofthe Born in the USA album from Bruce

(55:02):
Springsteen, right?
And inside that is the singleof Dancing in the Dark.
And I said, look, Dancing inthe Dark is a single.
It's like a blog post.
It's a moment in time.
It's a little snippet.
I said, writing a book, Isaid, that's like the.
That's like the album.
I could tell the story fromstart to finish, right?
Oh, that's brilliant.
That's cool.
That just.
That's just brilliant.

(55:22):
And I had to practice Poponomics.
I kept messing it up a littlebit before we come to the show.
I had to keep practicingPoponomics, but now it kind of rolls
off my tongue.
Yep, Yep.
This is one more thing beforeyou go.
So before we go, do you haveany words of wisdom for someone listening
right now who feels stuck orscared or unsure where to begin?
What's the first step?
The first step is just torealize that you're not the only

(55:46):
one that's there.
And I think more thananything, a lot of people have regret
syndrome, right?
They sit there and go, I wishI would have done this.
I should have done this fiveyears, 10 years ago.
You are where you are now.
Nothing's going to change that.
And all we can do is cast avision and move forward from here.
And we can help you with that.
Brilliant words of wisdom.
Brilliant words of wisdom.

(56:08):
Thank you again for spendingthe time with us, sharing your wisdom,
your experience, andeverything associated with this.
It's been a pleasure gettingto know you as well.
I really appreciate what youdo for the world.
Well, thank you so much.
We had a great time.
And as we, as we said beforewe started, it'll probably go fast.
And it did.
It did.
Went way too fast.
I'll make sure everything's inthe show, notes for people to connect

(56:30):
with you and where they canfind you, find your book and your
services as well.
So thank you again for beingpart of One More Thing before you
go.
Thank you so much.
It was a great time.
I appreciate the offer.
Pop culture has always been amirror reflecting who we are, what
we fear, and what we hope for.
Today, Jesse reminded us thatplanning for the future isn't about

(56:50):
numbers.
It's about meaning.
It's about the stories we tellourselves, the songs that shaped
us, the TV shows thatenlightened us, and the films that
we love, the puzzle pieceswe've been collecting our entire
lives.
So whether you're 40, 55, or70, it's never too late to rewrite
your next chapter.
And maybe, just maybe, thesoundtrack of your life already knows

(57:16):
the way.
That's a wrap for today's episode.
Hope you found inspiration,motivation and a few new perspectives
to take with you.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, be sure to like subscribe
and follow us.
Stay connected and you canfind us on Apple, Spotify or your
favorite listening platform.
You can hang out, head over toYouTube and watch the full video
version.

(57:36):
Please share with us and writeus a review.
We'd love to have it.
In the meantime, have a great day.
Have a great weekend.
Thank you for being part ofour community.
Until next time, I'm MichaelHirsch and this is One More thing
before you go.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One more Thing before
you Go.
Check out [e-mail] youm

(57:58):
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.