January 7, 2026 • 54 mins
What happens when history’s most painful stories are buried, censored, or forgotten? In this powerful episode, Michael Herst sits down with historian, author, and founder of Pacific Atrocities Education, Jenny Chan, to uncover the hidden truths of the Asia-Pacific Theater of World War II — a chapter that claimed over 30 million lives yet remains largely absent from mainstream awareness.
Jenny has scanned more than a million pages of archival documents, interviewed elders whose memories carry the weight of war, and built a global community of 34,000+ listeners committed to truth, justice, and reconciliation. Together, we explore:
✨ Why these stories were suppressed for decades
✨ The emotional and cultural impact of forgotten atrocities
✨ How truth-telling becomes a path to healing
✨ The modern relevance of WWII in Asia
✨ What “Never Again” truly means today
This episode blends cinematic storytelling with historical insight, offering a deeply human look at resilience, identity, and the power of remembrance.
Perfect for listeners who love history, personal growth, emotional storytelling, and uncovering the stories the world tried to forget.
🎙️ Find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform; visit us on our YouTube channel Find everything "One More Thing" here: https://taplink.cc/beforeyougopodcast
Want to be a guest on One More Thing Before You Go? Send Michael Herst a message on PodMatch, here: PODMATCH Proud member of the Podmatch Network of Top Rated- Podcasts
🔗 Learn more about Pacific Atrocities Education: pacificatrocities.org
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, one more thing before yougo. There are moments in history
that echo long after the lastshot is fired. Moments that don't
just shape nations, but shapethe souls of the people who live
through them. And sometimesthe most devastating stories aren't
the ones we remember. They'rethe ones we were never told. Today
we're stepping into a chapterof World War II that unfolds thousands
of miles from the Westernfront, yet claimed tens of millions
(00:22):
of lives. A chapter censoredby governments, overshadowed by other
narratives, and nearly erasedfrom public memory. But silence doesn't
heal wounds, and forgettingdoesn't free us from the past. So
the question becomes, whathappens when we finally shine a light
on the stories that wereburied? How does remembering help
us move forward toreconciliation, identity, and personal
(00:44):
growth? We're going to answerthose questions today with my guest.
She dedicated her life toanswering those questions. This isn't
just a conversation about war.It's a conversation about humanity,
about the courage to remember,the responsibility to understand,
and the power of storytellingto transform us. I'm your host, Michael
(01:04):
Hirsch. Welcome to one morething before you go. Jenny Chan is
the founder of PacificAtrocities Education. It's an organization
devoted to preserving andilluminating the stories of Asia
(01:26):
Pacific theater. Stories thatwere supposed to be censored or overshadowed
for decades. She scanned overa million pages of archival material,
interviewed elders whosememories carry the weight of history,
and built a global communitycommitted to truth, justice and healing.
Authored books on Chinesecomfort women, unit 3731 in the occupation
of Hong Kong, and built acommunity of more than 34,000 history
(01:50):
enthusiasts and social justiceminded listeners. And I'm honored
to have you on the show.Jenny, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
What an amazing opportunitythat you present to people to to
like have an in deptheducation about history and memory
and legacy and families andthe forgotten stories that, that
(02:13):
really need to be told.
Yeah, I think it really is.The more I think about it, the more
I feel like I need to tell thestory because I have been listening
to PODC and I've been onsocial media and a lot of the Gen
Z population that I talked toor interacted with social media don't
even know like who did theydon't even know who were in the allied,
(02:37):
who were in the axis of power.And it was a war that really affected
millions and millions ofpeople. And when I heard your episode
with John Lawyer, I thoughtthat was perfect, that I should reach
out to you about how like Ithink it really resonated with me
that his journey frombattlefield to basically a path of
(03:02):
inner peace and how you guysreally transformed that into universal
healing. So I, I'm so thankfulthat you responded to my email and
let me on.
Well, I'm grateful for youbeing here and what you provide to
the universe because I thinkthat we all need the opportunity
to heal. We all need theopportunity to be able to understand
(03:23):
what has happened to ourancestors and our people. Because
sometimes we don't know thatthose stories, I mean, World War
II is a long time ago andthose individuals are slowly disappearing,
actually.
Yes. And I truly believe thatwhat is never forget if we already
(03:44):
forgot the first time it happened.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I likewe're going to get into that. I always
like to start at thebeginning. Where'd you grow up and,
and kind of what put you onthis path? Had you always wanted
to do this or did you start acareer in a different area?
Yeah, I had a career indifferent area. But when my grandma
(04:06):
passed it really, and we foundlike a box of belongings that she
had when she was like in herearly teens, it really, it really
struck me of what she's wentthrough. And I remember I had my
early childhood in Hong Kongand I remember when I was growing
(04:26):
up, she will always turn offthe TV when I'm watching anime or
reading manga. One time sheeven tossed away the whole box of
manga. And this is a lady whodoesn't easily toss things away.
And so I. And she will alwaystell me about how the Japanese people
are quite evil and you shouldnever believe them and blah, blah,
(04:48):
blah. And I thought, wow,maybe my grandma, something is going
on with my grandma and I, Inever really got the chance to talk
to her about what had happenedto her during World War II. I mean,
like a lot of young people, Ididn't realize, you know, Japan was
a. Was very brutal in Asiaduring World War II. And I had. And
(05:12):
I went to school in the west.And so I had always thought that
it was just Hitler and theNazi Germany and the Jewish Holocaust
and whatnot. And so when shepassed away and we found that box
of stuff and I think the onlybook that I could find, the only
(05:33):
books that I could find onthis topic were like the Rising sun
by John Toland and also theRape of Nank King by Iris Changing.
And so I didn't really thinkabout too much about. And then so
I thought, well, if the Rapeof Nanking had 300,000 people who
(05:55):
were killed and there were 30million lives that were lost in Asia.
Then there has to be more thanjust a story of rape of Nanking.
So I started digging intomore. I started trying to find out
more about what was happening.And I think at the same time Dianne
Feinstein was declassifyingthe National Archives documents and
(06:19):
materials. And so I thought,wow, maybe I can just make a quick
trip. And I was very naive,now that I think about it, I was
very naive because that couldhave. I mean, it was started out
as just trying to do a lightresearch on this topic, turned into
10 years of work of digitizingand really scanning these material
(06:44):
because I, when I firststumbled across it, I. And I was
trying to find maybe anorganization that's trying to preserve
history and whatnot. Andthere's really nothing out there
that I could work with whowere doing the same thing of telling
these untold stories andtelling these. And trying to preserve
(07:09):
these primary source documentsfrom the National Archives. And when
I first saw how fragile thesedocuments were, I thought for sure
that I need to do somethingabout it. Because World War II documents
are all mostly onion skin peelpaper. And I mean, even the Civil
(07:33):
War are made of cotton paper.Because World War II really was.
People were facing a lack ofresource and whatnot. And so they
had. And so then the World WarII documents are more fragile than
for say, the Civil Wardocuments, if that's shocking to
you at all.
Actually it is. I mean, youwouldn't think so, but I remember
(07:56):
that at least in World War II,they had to, like you said, the resources
were very thin. That's whypeople were giving up a lot. Even
in here in the United States,they were giving up a lot in order
to help support the wareffort, you know, throughout the
war. So, yeah, that does makesense. I think, you know, your realization,
(08:17):
I guess, that the Asia Pacifictheater in how much of that history
had been forgotten orsuppressed, I guess that kind of
opened your eyes when youstarted going through these fragile
documents. And I'm assumingthat just inspires you to kind of
take a more proactive approachto preserving that, because it was
(08:38):
going to disappear.
Yeah. And what's interestingis also that because Americans had
occupied Japan at the time, soright after the war. So a lot of
the documents that theJapanese had were actually ended
up in Americans hands. And soit makes sense why we have to do
(08:59):
the research in the UnitedStates National Archives.
Oh, that's interesting to knowsomething I did not know. I mean,
even I, I'm not a young guy,so even when I was in school, growing
up in the elementary schooland in middle school and in high
school, our history lessonstaught us the basics of World War
(09:23):
I, World War II, the CivilWar, the very basics of it. It was
nothing really in depth,nothing about the people that fought
the war, nothing about thecultures that fought the war. It
was just a basic understandingthat these were the wars, this is
what took place, these werewho were fighting. At least I was
(09:44):
benefit during my age, becauseduring my time, because they did
tell us who the Axis powerswere, who the Allies were, who the
Allied and who the bad guyswere. Throughout there, I know that
when my kids went to highschool, they learned very minimal
amount of history. When Ibring something up about history
(10:09):
from the past, whether it beeven the Vietnam War or the Korean
War, they know nothing aboutit because in history, they didn't
teach it. You didn't teach it.
Why do you think that is?
I think that America doesn'tfeel I may get in trouble for making
this statement. I think thatAmerica doesn't feel that it's necessary
(10:31):
to teach what has happened andtranspired to our history. How it
was changed, how it wasformed, how it was built and put
into place, and all of theworld around us and how we all interact,
how we all mingle, how we alltook part in transformation. I don't
(10:52):
believe that the educationsystem here finds that important
enough to understand thegeological, the geographical aspect
of how everybody within theworld had some effect during World
War I, World War II, theVietnam War, the Iraq War, the Gulf
War, the Korean War, all ofthose. They don't understand the
(11:16):
full impact, not only to us,not only to the people we were fighting,
but the allies and thecitizens in totality. I don't believe
they find it important enough anymore.
And that's so shocking to mebecause I'm Chinese ethnically. And
it's so fascinating that whenI was learning history and whatnot,
(11:40):
I didn't realize that whofought World War II eventually migrated
to Taiwan until I was readingJames Bradley's book the China Mirage.
And so I reached out to himand now we're doing like monthly
podcasts on our YouTubechannel. And that's just like a little
(12:04):
bit of insight that I didn'trealize. And then nowadays when I'm
watching the news, people arelike, oh, we're going to send weapons
to Taiwan and whatnot. Andthis is. And. And this is the first
time we're going to sendweapons due to Taiwan and blah, blah,
blah. I'm thinking like, no,actually in America sent Billions
of dollars to the same kind ofgovernment, same group of people
(12:27):
like decades ago, and theystill end up losing China.
That's crazy. Yeah, I didn'tknow that either. That's crazy.
I mean I might get intotrouble for saying that, but that's
a historical fact that that'swhat happened.
You know, it, it is. I thinkthat the, the government doesn't
always share the things thatwe need to know and understand. I,
(12:49):
I don't believe that there'sa, necessarily a shadow government,
but I do know that there arethings that happen that we as the
public don't always get directknowledge of until after the fact.
And sometimes not all thefacts and.
Sometimes after the fact theycover up what happened.
Exactly.
Unit 731 that I got reallydeep into because it was very fascinating.
(13:15):
I was reading this book calledDepth Factory and in addition one
he mentioned about how therewere human experimentation done on
American POWs. And then on thesecond edition he said no, there's
no such thing. And I thoughtwow, that's like a big, big chunk
(13:36):
of his book that he took out.So I started like really reading
into what had happened and Ididn't realize that after the first
edition that he wrote therewas a congressional meeting basically
condemning what he had foundout about the POW is being human
experimented on. And so thenhe had to remove it for a second
edition. And, and I startedlooking into like the United States
(14:01):
involvement in unit 731. Andthat's when I realized that because
after World War II and theUnited States had to fight communism,
so then they basically gaveimmunity to all these scientists
who did humanexperimentations. It doesn't, it
didn't matter if they didhuman experimentation on Americans
(14:22):
or on Chinese.
We can't be naive enough to,and I say this in totality, we as
humanity in understanding war,understanding what takes place in
war and understanding theatrocities of war that do take place.
It, it does not surprise methat these kind of things took place.
(14:43):
And it doesn't surprise methat they were suppressed by a government
so that we as individualsdidn't understand the full ramifications
of war. I think lately Iappreciate the media that had come
out and was talking aboutUkraine, not, not to get off the
subject, but Ukraine, theywere talking about the, the, the
rape, the genocide, the, themass elimination of individuals all
(15:11):
at once, specifically becauseof a race, specifically because they
were Ukraine, specificallybecause they didn't. They wanted
to eliminate a completefamilies and so forth, which is typically
not brought out. And it hasn'tbeen brought out in the past. That's
the reason Vietnam War was asit was. Because the soldiers who
(15:33):
went to Vietnam did notunderstand the full ramifications
of war and what war existed.And again, the atrocities, the horrific,
the way it was done, thehorrible treatment of individuals,
the way people were killed,the way people were treated all the
way across the board. So froma perspective, that's why I appreciate
(15:57):
you sharing these stories thatwere unfold, that were declassified,
because that allows us to havea better understanding of what our
grandparents may have gonethrough, our generations that have
gone through, because thattrauma transcends generations. That
trauma is passed down to us.
And I think even though thatthese Unit 731 stories were declassified,
(16:20):
I really don't think that weget the whole story of what was happening
because there was no survivorin this whole unit of unit 731 where
they were doing vivisection.And we don't even know about the
amount of victims who were inunit 731 because they started to
count from like, if they aregoing to do organ removal and whatnot,
(16:44):
they remove the organs. Andthen they start to count from zero
and then to like 1,000. Andthen they start to count again from
zero and then to 1,000. And sowe can just guess that there were
thousands of victims in unit731, but we never really know how
many victims there wereexactly and what the victim's like,
(17:04):
life was. Because it's just somany things that you can get from,
for example, a sample paperthat the scientists produce after
the war. And. And what reallydiscussed me about humanity is that
it wasn't just one scientistwho was doing unit 731. Of course
(17:27):
there was a leader. But thenthe society got into such a. A disgusting
way of idealizing what scienceis and how. What the limit of science
is that like they were able todo just vivisection on. On people
that, that were alive, forexample, by the end of the war. And
(17:50):
it was not just unit 731, itwas other atrocities too that happened.
And for example, in like 1945,I recently stumbled across the Yokohama
trial and really like left,you know, really left that feeling
in me that this is sohorrific. In 1945, in when the war
(18:14):
was about to end, there was agroup of B29 bombers that went into
Tokyo and then they gotcaptured. And then they were sent
to Kyushu Imperial University.A bunch of villagers caught them.
So it's like even villagerswere like catching enemies who were
falling into their country inJapan. And these American airmen
(18:39):
that survived this crashinitially thought that they were
going to be safe by going intoa hospital. But then it so happened
that this hospital staff is inthis Kyushu Imperial University.
And instead of saving them,he. They pushed them into a college
lecture room where they werethen vivisected in front of like,
(19:04):
a group of college students.And this was like, I mean, and they
were basically used as humanexperimentation in front of a classroom.
So it's just like, at whatpoint do we let our society go that,
like, Pharaoh and in. Intolike, basically our society thinks
(19:31):
that human experimentation isokay to the point that they're doing
it in college classrooms?
It's disgusting, actually, isthat. I think, is that the moment
that you kind of understoodthat preserving these stories wasn't
just historical, but it waskind of emotional, cultural, and
kind of deeply human work?Because, I mean, that's something
(19:53):
I did not know. And to me, itkind of shocks me that this had even
taken place. Obviously, that.That's disgusting. Like you said,
it is heartbreaking. Numbertwo, because we're human being. Those
are human beings. You may be asoldier, but you're still a human
being, right?
And they. We move. Like, forexample, I was reading this in the
(20:16):
Yokohama trial. This is likeone of the nurse was saying that
they remove one of theairmen's, like, lungs just to see
how long they can live. Canyou imagine, like a whole classroom
of people watching that happenand no one stepped in to say, like,
hey, maybe it was just ascience, science experiment. And
(20:37):
so what's interesting is,yeah, that's exactly the moment when
I realized that, like, wow,you know, this is not just history
is a part of humanity. And inorder to understand humanity, we
need to learn what hadhappened in the past. And. And in
order for the past to know, tonot repeat itself, we need to learn.
(20:57):
And unfortunately, I think thepast is repeating itself to a certain
extent these days, and that Ithink the awareness needs to be brought
to the forefront of thingsjust like this, or it's going to
continue and probably at ahigher and faster rate. I'm going
to ask you, if you don't mind,because our listeners and our viewers
(21:20):
may not understand whatvivisection is. Can you help us can
understand that kind of whatkind of an atrocity that is in itself?
So they.
Yeah, vivisection is basicallydissecting a human while they're
still alive and withoutanesthesia. Because some scientists
at the moment, at this pointthought that experimentation with
(21:45):
anesthesia was going to messwith the results of the experiments.
So they decided to go aheadand basically cut a human alive without
any of the anesthesia.
And I can't. I can't evenfathom dying. Dying that way. It.
(22:06):
As a police officer, for aslong as I was, I saw a lot of death.
Not say war death, but. But adifferent kind of war. So a. Gunshot
victims, knife victims, axevictims, you know, suicide, you name
it. Of. I have witnessed thedeath of individuals from various.
(22:29):
A sledgehammer, hammers,knives, machetes, a multitude. And
every time that I had everinvestigated any one of those, it
was always just horrific to methat humanity can treat another human
being such as that. And to me,it. I. This is something I. I am
(22:52):
familiar with World War II,familiar with, you know, who. Who
was who. Who fought who. Whowere the allies, who were the bad
guys. But these are thingsthat. That I was unaware of as well,
Even the history that I doknow. And it shocks me for that realization
to come through with that. Imean, that's just one of the. The
(23:16):
censored atrocities orsomething that was minimized during
that time period. Can you helpus understand what some of the other
things that you found were?
Yeah. So in 2015, I thoughtto. I was reading about the Korean
comfort woman, and. And Ithought, wow, this. And the story
(23:38):
goes that, you know, whoeverwere occupying and their woman were
then, in a sense, alsooccupied. So a lot of these comfort
women were basically rapedbrutally by Japanese soldiers day
and night until. Until theycan survive. And a lot of these women
(24:06):
actually perish because a lotof them tried to fight back and whatnot.
And it just so shocking to methat, like, okay, I was thinking
about, okay, if Koreans havereally gone through this, then if
Japan had occupied China, thenChinese. There must have been Chinese
comfort women. So then Istarted researching more into it,
(24:26):
and it was not really wellknown that in Japan had occupied
Shani because Shani was alsolike a communist stronghold. And
they also have some resourcesthat the Japanese armies needed.
And in this village, therewere a bunch of women who were then
serving as Chinese comfortwomen. And so I went over and visited
(24:52):
them, and they were telling metheir story. And a lot of them were
very old. And so you can tellthat they were not willing to really
talk about what had happenedwhen they were younger, because in
Asian, there's like, thisculture of taboo history. And like,
this is not a topic that youtalk about, but because they were
so old, they were willing toshare with me what had happened to
(25:14):
them. And this woman told methat she had to bury her, her child.
She was, she was basicallycaptured into a comfort station and
she was raped day and nightfor like two years. And eventually
she had a child because, youknow, that's what happened. That's
(25:37):
the consequences of it. Andher mom told her to not share that
story with other people. Andthen they went to a cave in the middle
of the night and just buriedthe child alone. I mean the baby,
while the baby was alive andjust kill the baby. And that story
(25:58):
really stuck to me. It stuckwith me because I'm just thinking
like, wow, you know this. Notonly did they have to suffer during
the war, but because of thecurrent, the culture that they were
living in, they had tobasically suffer in silence. And
there's additional victimsbecause the baby that was, that had
(26:20):
to be buried alive. You know,because of this situation. I mean
there's just, it's just like athree part tragedy.
That's. That's unbelievable.It's. I think. Why do you believe
these stories are made hidden?I mean culturally from the Chinese
(26:40):
perspective, obviously Iunderstand that. Because the same
thing goes for here you havecertain cultures of people within
the United States. It's thesame thing. There's things you just
don't talk about. And mymother was that way, my grandmother
was that way. They had thingsthat happened to them that we found
out on their deathbeds thatthings had happened to them that
(27:03):
shouldn't have happened tothem. And it was just like they said,
it was just something theydidn't talk about, period. But why
do you believe these storiesremained hidden for so long?
I think it's politics as well.Because for example of unit 731,
what had happened so in mostof the unit 17v1 activities happened
(27:25):
in like Manchuria and occupiedChinese area by the Japanese. And
it. And when Japan fell inlike 1945 and the Soviet Union had
then started the August,August Storm Operation August Storm
(27:46):
which then they went intoManchuria and then the Japanese scientists
like destroyed a bunch ofstuff, a bunch of evidence and then.
But then the Soviet Union wasable to capture whoever scientists
that have not ran away at thattime and they did like a trial in,
(28:09):
in like the late 40s andbecause the United States was then
aligned with trying to fightcommunism that they said that this
Soviet trial was actually acommunist propaganda. But it turned
out that this so calledcommunist propaganda was actually
(28:30):
true in terms of what theywere exposing about like biological
weapons, humanexperimentation. So I think a lot
of it is political and alsoyou have to think that because during
wartime Japan and like Japanbefore 1945, before American occupation,
(28:52):
they had a more Chineseinspired language. Classical Japanese
is very different than theJapanese today. And so then there's
also language issue. And alsolike the Chinese comfort woman issue.
I think it's like the Koreancomfort women are a lot better known
because South Korea is like anally or they were. They didn't fall
(29:15):
into communism per se. Butthen like Chinese women who were
serving in terms of that theywere all, they were in communist
region. So then, you know,then there's this ideology that you
need to fight, right? Like wehad, America had to fight and had
to fight in Vietnam because ofso called communism. And so at that
(29:40):
time, right after the war,communism. And like, even though
that China was victim of thewar, they can't account for what
they were trying to saybecause of ideology. And also what's
interesting is, so do you havelanguage issue, you have political
issues and you have like acultural taboo issue that people
(30:02):
don't want to talk about ituntil like they're near the deathbeds.
And so there's all these threeissues that are really, I think,
the bulk of why it's so hardto record this part of history.
Do you think that has animpact on the silence? Their silence
has an impact on obviously onthe survivors, yes. But how about
(30:24):
future generations, as Imentioned earlier, because I think
I believe in generationaltrauma, intergenerational trauma.
I've had a lot ofconversations on the podcast in regard
to, on this program in regardto intergenerational trauma. Do you
think that's affected?
I think so. I think that'sreally affecting also geopolitical
(30:46):
issues because South Korea andJapan are supposed to be allies,
but every Wednesday SouthKoreans are protesting in front of
the Japanese embassy. And sothat's just showing how like how
deep that wound is. And a lotof Koreans cannot because Korea was
actually occupied by Japan 30years before Pearl Harbor. And so
(31:14):
that, you know, they weresuffering through decades of Japanese
rule. And so I think thatreally does bring a lot of things
into context instead of interms of today's like geopolitical
issues and alsointergenerational trauma. Like, I
don't think I have ever seenmy grandma smile because when she
(31:38):
was, when Hong Kong wasoccupied, her family had to trade
in all of their family moneyinto military yen and rice rationing
coupons. And after the war,inflation basically killed all these,
like military yen, like toiletpaper was worth more than military
yen. So then just losing yourwhole Family fortune on a war. It
(32:01):
was pretty devastating, I canimagine for my grandma as well. So
I think it does really hurtpeople intergenerationally. And yeah,
it's something that's reallyadding on to like current generation
as well is that the today'slike Prime Minister Sanai Takeaichi
(32:28):
still goes to Yasukuni shrine,which is where they put a lot of
the war criminals in Japan.And you have to think that like there's
no Nazi descendants who aregoing to go enshrine their war criminals.
Right. And their politiciansstill go to go worship them. So why
(32:51):
is it okay for Japan to do that?
You know, And I, I, I learnedfrom it, from another arena that
it amazes me that Japaninfiltrated China and Korea and were
such, I mean, and just brutal.Not just there, but brutal. Wherever
(33:12):
they went, they were justbrutal, brutal individuals. Crazy.
And it's interesting becausewe were doing interview in the Philip
in central coast of Californiaand because there were a lot of Filipinos
who live in central coast ofCalifornia and they Survived World
War II in the Philippines andthey fought. So it's. If you go on
(33:33):
the website, you can see Panayguerrilla fighters as a book and
they fought in World War IIand they were saying that they were
a colony of the United States.When Japan arrived, they were so
excited because they werelike, wow, finally we're free from
the American colonization. Andthen little did they realize that
the Japanese were way morebrutal than the Americans. So they
(33:56):
actually been ally with theAmericans to fight off the Japanese.
That's crazy.
It's like, whoops, every,Everything is relative.
Yeah, whoops. Wrong decision.Can we explore like how you turned
a mission into a movement andhow preserving memory became a pathway
(34:17):
to healing? Because I believethat what you're doing is helping
people to heal because you'rebringing to light things that have
been hidden for so long. Andwe all know that deep down inside,
if we release what we'rerepressing, it allows us to, to mind,
body and soul to heal.
Yes, I also believe that. Andwe just had a conference where a
(34:44):
survivor talked about what hadhappened to her in World War II and
how she lost her brother. Andshe had always thought, this is her
words, not mine, that sheshould have replaced her brother
in terms of like dying andwhatnot. And Willie struck me the
first time I heard her story.And she's told her story now. I had
(35:07):
told her to tell her story forI think since like seven, eight years
ago. So she started tellingher story and I think and the first
time she was telling thatstory, she was really crying. She
was really bawling. And youcan just tell that it's. This is
like, probably one of thefirst time that she's told her story
and really hurt her. And Ithink the last time that she told
(35:30):
this story, she just didanother event with us on in, I want
to say, November, and shestopped crying so hard. She still,
you can still. That she'sstill feeling it. But I think that
just sharing that story meanta lot for her because it. It kind
of. I think that she's healinginternally and now she's donating
(35:55):
to our nonprofit because shereally believes in what we're doing
and sharing her story. Andalso millions of other stories like
hers about World War IIatrocities that people have really
gone through. Because a war isnot like what you imagine in the
movie, that people just, youknow, dress in a beautiful uniform
(36:17):
and then they go to abattlefield and then that's that.
But like, a war is whensomeone's village got invaded and
they have to fight it out.There are like people bleeding on
the streets in front of, like,a store that they normally go to.
Right? I mean, I'm pretty sureyou have seen it as a police officer
that, you know, when you havevictims, it's not like what you see
(36:39):
on the cop show or whatever isactually people's communities being
hurt. And so just by sheddingthe story on that and also like sharing
their story, like, forexample. Well, what I was also talking
about earlier, about theCentral coast where those Filipinas
got to share their storybefore they passed away. And now
their. Their children wouldnot forget those stories. I think
(37:05):
that's a very impactful waythat we have been doing as kind of
a movement. And also not justthat like, a lot of these families
didn't realize that their,Their. Their grandmas were like heroes
fighting the Japanese, like,in the Philippines. So I think it
(37:27):
is also very empowering forpeople to know their family legacy.
I agree with that. And you're.And you're correct. It's. It's not
like what you see on tv, nomatter how or what you think. TV
glorifies it to point a. Acertain perspective and does not
present it in the reality ofwar and the reality of what takes
(37:49):
place. Tell us a little bitabout the founding because of what
you're being able to present,the opportunity that you're presenting
for people to have a betterunderstanding. You founded the Pacific
Atrocities Education, whichyou said that one of the individuals
that spoke with you Kind ofcontributes to what was the vision
(38:10):
for that and how has itevolved since you started it?
When I first started theorganization, I thought that people
just don't know about thishistory because of. I was very naive.
I just think that if we justtalk a little bit more about this
history and do a little bitmore research, then the truth will
(38:30):
come out and whatnot. But thenit turns out that there's a lot of
like political forces thatdon't want these stories to be told.
And for example, sometimes ifI post something related to the war,
I'll either get called nameson social media or there's all kinds
(38:52):
of things that would happen.So I. That's when I realized that
it was more than just, youknow, not telling your story loud
enough. Yeah. And so. So nowI'm not that naive. And really I
just realized that theresearch of World War II, it. There's
(39:15):
still a lot more out there topreserve and research on. And that's
also something that I had notrealized when I first started our
organization and when I firststarted this organization. I thought
going to the National Archivewas going to be one trip and I can
get everything I wanted in oneweek. And they might be able to put
(39:38):
it in the USB drive for me.But it turns out it's taking more
than just one trip. I thinkI've been there at least 20 times
now and made a lot of friends.And yeah, it's just because it's.
It's like some of the foldersare so are. So I would not call it
(39:58):
misplaced, but then organizedin a way that you would not think
that would be organized thatway. So then in the midst of like
German war crime, then you seeJapanese war crimes and then someone
who was like researching oflike I was like making small talk
with this guy who was writinga book about not Nazi war crime and
he was like, hey, you mightwant to check out this box. I just
stumbled across a bunch oflike Japanese war crime issues and
(40:23):
all mixed together. Yes,they're all just, you know, linked
together. So.
Yeah, well, and I thinkyou've. You've now don't remember
if I heard it or read it, butyou've scanned like over a million
pages from the NationalArchives. That's a lot to scan.
And also to put things intocontext and build exhibitions on
(40:45):
our digital archive was alsotaken a lot of brain power from me
because then I need to figureout what was happening in this context
of things.
Yeah, well, I think that'suncovered. It changed what you Uncovered
changed your understanding ofthe war and its aftermath, which
I think that this institutethat you've created, this foundation
(41:06):
that you've created, it'sgiving us an opportunity to have
a better understanding of thewar in its aftermath as well.
Correct. And also we started ainternship program with a few history
departments in. In thecountry. And I hope to do more because
a lot of. I'm even getfeedback from professors that this
(41:29):
is changing their perspectiveon history as well.
So I like the firsthand aspectof it. I. I had the honor of. When
I first moved to Arizona, whenI retired from the police department,
I got a job at a. At thecommunity center just to have something
to do. And while I was there,I met this guy that actually was
(41:51):
a survivor from Iwo Jima. Andhe had fought in Iwo Jima. He actually
was 17 years old. He lied toget in the military. And they didn't
realize it until after he wason the ship, and the ship was already
outside of Iwo Jima, and theyrealized he was only 17 years old.
But as it was, they went,okay, you're here. So. And he said
(42:15):
the. That it. It just theatrocities that he saw there, everything
that he watched and happeningthere. He shot down two Japanese
heroes, which they patted himon the back for on the ship, but
then he got reprimanded for,because he wasn't supposed to be
shooting a gun at 17 andshooting down Japanese heroes. But
(42:38):
his experience with the warand everything that took place after
it, he wanted to document in abook for his family and for his kids
so that they had a fullunderstanding. So we had conversations
that say, I'm grateful becausewe sat down, we had these conversations.
I typed everything out forhim. We taped it and then typed it
(42:59):
all out into a book for him,for his kids. And he told the stories
and told what happened andwhat. What. How he felt and why it
affected him and why thoseaffected his relationships and his.
His. With everything. His. Hiswife, his kids, his parents, everybody.
And he told his story and. Andhe did that so that others could
(43:24):
also hear it and see it. Hefelt that it's a story that needed
to be told. You interviewelders and. Because there's not very
many left of them,unfortunately, because, I mean, they
got to at least be in the 80sand 90s, I'm guessing, and above.
What kind of experience hasthat been for you to be able to listen
(43:46):
to me? It was an honor, but italso opened my eyes to have that
conversation with anindividual that was there, that experienced
It. And it changed myperspective a little bit.
Yeah, I think it really didchange my perspective as well. That's
when I realized that wars arenot like what they portray in movies
where people are dressed upand whatnot. It's like every. It
(44:10):
can happen every to everydaylife. I mean, people who just trying
to live their lives. And itreally is an honor for me to talk
to these people who havesurvived. Like that's a world event
that had happened. And alsoyour Iwo Jima story, it's actually
very common at the time forsoldiers to pretend. I mean, I was
(44:34):
reading this affidavits thatthis Guy was only 16 when he signed
up to go fight the war becausehe felt like he really needed to
go fight the Japanese. Andit's, it's really, I mean, it's must
have been such an event, sucha world event for people to even
lie about their age and tothen to go fight the war and. Yeah,
(44:57):
and Iwo Jima is something thatlike it lasted for. I think I remember
reading this, it lasted forlike about a month, 36 days. And
people who fought on Iwo Jimathink about it for the rest of their
lives. Flags of Our Fathersabout Iwo Jima by James Bradley.
And he's now talking aboutlike the importance of peace on our
(45:22):
YouTube channel. So I thinkfor whoever who wants to hear from
James Bradley, who also wroteabout Iwo Jima and how the president
fell in love with that onepicture from by Joe Rosenberg, decided
to bring people like hisfather and also other people to go
raise money for war bonds. Sothen these people were not only just
(45:44):
living off of ptsd, they werealso having to go over a whole world
tour or the nation tour,raising war bonds while they were
living in pain. I think thatwas really such an impactful story
to unpack as well. Have you,have you watched the movie or read
(46:05):
the book Flags of Our Fathers?
I have not read the book. Ihave seen the movie and I agree with
you. And you know, I canmention that, and I'd like to mention
this as well. When you saidPTSD back then, they didn't understand
ptsd. They just, it wasn'trecognized as ptsd. It was shell
(46:26):
shock or it was, you know,just the, the, the, the fallout from
war is what you wereexperiencing. So they didn't have
a good understanding of that.And I think that contributed to deeper
ptsd, especially when theysent these guys around to continuously
replay that in their head andreplay that to the public and kind
(46:47):
of emphasize everything everyTime that they had to repeat it,
they had to relive it, and itjust kind of emphasized that. But
no, I haven't read the book,but I, I would like to read the book.
After kind of doing theresearch that I've done on you preparing
for this show, I got reallyinvolved in your YouTube channel,
which is a brilliant YouTubechannel that you guys everybody needs
(47:10):
to listen to and to watch. Andhis conversations as well are very
poignant. Kind of brings a perspective.
Thank you for subscribing.Yeah. And thank you so much for having
me today.
It's been a pleasure. I thinkthat you have given us the opportunity
(47:34):
to kind of learn to have abetter understanding and to kind
of move forward. How iswriting a book? I mean, you wrote,
you wrote several books inparticular the maritas of unit 731
and the undrawning of Lotusthat I think are very poignant and
the subject matters unknown tothe public. Can we talk about that
real quick? And what, whatkind of motivated you to write, to
(47:58):
start writing and to put thisdown in a book form?
I love reading books. I justthought that I need to tell the story.
I don't know how we can tellthe story. So then I just started
writing and I just had so muchinformation at the time, after I
interviewed these women andJohnny noticed I call it a novel,
(48:20):
but what had happened are truestories. And these are like from
oral interviews that I havedone. But it's just that I rounded
out one or two scenes. So thenI call it, you know, historical fiction.
Right.
And then the Marutas,everything is true. I have done the
research. And it's just soincredible to me that this human
(48:42):
experimentation, like we allknow about the osw, but we don't
know about something that wasa bigger scale because at this time
they had taken over a wholevillage and they built 150 buildings
just for, just to dedicate tobioweapons research. And I just think
that it's really incrediblethat people don't know about it.
(49:04):
Well, I, I, I appreciate that,that you've done that and you've
built a community of like over34, 000 listeners who care deeply
about the emotional connectionto history and, and so forth. And
I think that what you'velearned, these people crave these
kind of stories. I think ithelps us to move forward. How do
(49:24):
the themes of resilience,identity and healing in these wartime
stories, do you think, mirrorthe personal growth or journeys that
like that you explore? How doyou see yourself moving forward?
I Think actually bringingthese people's stories to life really
(49:46):
helped me in moving forward.And not only that, it really also
put things into what we'reexperiment experiencing today, like,
into context. When I was like,researching these women who were
surviving from, you know, thiskind of brutality and then how they
just lived on, it's like, wow,you guys didn't let that kind of
(50:12):
experience just bring you downand, like, call it a day. You didn't
just roll over and then just.You were able to live on. That survivor
that was talking in ourconference, jing B. Chan, Dr. Jing
B. Chan, who lived throughJapanese invasion and her brother
(50:32):
died during the Japaneseinvasion, she was able to, well,
for a large part of her life,she suppressed that story. And then
she was able to. To get like,her. Her degree in mathematics and
she was a professor. And it'sjust very incredible resilience stories,
(50:55):
even after the war. And Imean, for me, it just like I got
to witness, like, how even,like, terrible things don't really
can, like, just not destroythe human spirit, but to also build
a human spirit and build thatresilience. And for those people
(51:19):
to, of course, is a part ofthem, but at the same time, they
know that, like, they canovercome it. And for me to be able
to witness that was very incredible.
I agree with you. I agree withyou. How can somebody get a hold
of you, find your website andcontribute to your organization in
various ways?
Yeah. So you can go onpacificatrocities.org and make a
(51:43):
donation, or you can also findus on Instagram, Pacific Atrocities.
Edu, and that's where they canfind your books and your podcast
and your YouTube connectionand so many more resources.
Yes.
And I'll make sure those arein the show notes so that people
have an easy way to kind ofclick and get to you.
(52:04):
Great.
This is one more thing beforewe go. So any words of wisdom on,
like, what. What never againmeans to you personally and how listeners
can carry that intention intotheir own lives and communities.
I think learning more historyand learning more about things that
are happening around the worldand around us can really help shape
(52:27):
our future.
I agree with you. Brilliantwords of wisdom. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you for sharingthose. Jenny. Thank you very much
for being part of the show.Thank you very much for what you
do. Thank you very much forsharing your journey and your wisdom
and your experience with us. Iappreciate you.
Thank you for having me today.
(52:48):
Absolutely. Today we steppedinto a part of history that was nearly
lost to silence. But silencedoesn't erase truth that only delays
the healing that truth canbring. Jenna reminded us that history
isn't just a record of whathappened, it's a mirror. It reflects
who we are, what we value, andhow we choose to move forward. The
stories of the Asia Pacifictheater aren't just wartime accounts.
(53:11):
They're human stories. Storiesof suffering, resilience, courage,
and the unbreakable will tosurvive. As she just said, when we
choose to remember, when wechoose to listen, that's when we
choose to honor the voicesthat were once silenced. And Jenny
brings that forward in herproject. So step forward to reconciliation.
(53:32):
Step forward to understanding.Step forward to becoming the kind
of person who refuses to lookaway and help her move her story
forward. Truly never againmust first be understood and never
happen again. So today we tookthat step together. Jenny, thank
you again for work. Thank youagain very much for your work, your
(53:52):
heart and your commitment totruth. And for you watching and listening.
Thank you for being part ofthis journey, for choosing awareness
and choosing empathy, forchoosing to carry these stories forward.
And that's it for today'sjourney. If something sparks your
curiosity or moved you, shareit. Subscribe and stay connected.
You can find us on Apple,Spotify or your favorite listening
platform. You can always headover to YouTube and catch the full
(54:13):
video version. And remember,you're not just listening, you're
part of the story. So untilnext time, keep seeking, keep going,
never stop asking. Have agreat day, a great week, and thank
you for being part of One MoreThing before you Go.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing before
youe Go. Check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
(54:34):
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
Hey, one more thing before yougo. There are moments in history
that echo long after the lastshot is fired. Moments that don't
just shape nations, but shapethe souls of the people who live
through them. And sometimesthe most devastating stories aren't
the ones we remember. They'rethe ones we were never told. Today
we're stepping into a chapterof World War II that unfolds thousands
of miles from the Westernfront, yet claimed tens of millions
(00:22):
of lives. A chapter censoredby governments, overshadowed by other
narratives, and nearly erasedfrom public memory. But silence doesn't
heal wounds, and forgettingdoesn't free us from the past. So
the question becomes, whathappens when we finally shine a light
on the stories that wereburied? How does remembering help
us move forward toreconciliation, identity, and personal
(00:44):
growth? We're going to answerthose questions today with my guest.
She dedicated her life toanswering those questions. This isn't
just a conversation about war.It's a conversation about humanity,
about the courage to remember,the responsibility to understand,
and the power of storytellingto transform us. I'm your host, Michael
(01:04):
Hirsch. Welcome to one morething before you go. Jenny Chan is
the founder of PacificAtrocities Education. It's an organization
devoted to preserving andilluminating the stories of Asia
(01:26):
Pacific theater. Stories thatwere supposed to be censored or overshadowed
for decades. She scanned overa million pages of archival material,
interviewed elders whosememories carry the weight of history,
and built a global communitycommitted to truth, justice and healing.
Authored books on Chinesecomfort women, unit 3731 in the occupation
of Hong Kong, and built acommunity of more than 34,000 history
(01:50):
enthusiasts and social justiceminded listeners. And I'm honored
to have you on the show.Jenny, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
What an amazing opportunitythat you present to people to to
like have an in deptheducation about history and memory
and legacy and families andthe forgotten stories that, that
(02:13):
really need to be told.
Yeah, I think it really is.The more I think about it, the more
I feel like I need to tell thestory because I have been listening
to PODC and I've been onsocial media and a lot of the Gen
Z population that I talked toor interacted with social media don't
even know like who did theydon't even know who were in the allied,
(02:37):
who were in the axis of power.And it was a war that really affected
millions and millions ofpeople. And when I heard your episode
with John Lawyer, I thoughtthat was perfect, that I should reach
out to you about how like Ithink it really resonated with me
that his journey frombattlefield to basically a path of
(03:02):
inner peace and how you guysreally transformed that into universal
healing. So I, I'm so thankfulthat you responded to my email and
let me on.
Well, I'm grateful for youbeing here and what you provide to
the universe because I thinkthat we all need the opportunity
to heal. We all need theopportunity to be able to understand
(03:23):
what has happened to ourancestors and our people. Because
sometimes we don't know thatthose stories, I mean, World War
II is a long time ago andthose individuals are slowly disappearing,
actually.
Yes. And I truly believe thatwhat is never forget if we already
(03:44):
forgot the first time it happened.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I likewe're going to get into that. I always
like to start at thebeginning. Where'd you grow up and,
and kind of what put you onthis path? Had you always wanted
to do this or did you start acareer in a different area?
Yeah, I had a career indifferent area. But when my grandma
(04:06):
passed it really, and we foundlike a box of belongings that she
had when she was like in herearly teens, it really, it really
struck me of what she's wentthrough. And I remember I had my
early childhood in Hong Kongand I remember when I was growing
(04:26):
up, she will always turn offthe TV when I'm watching anime or
reading manga. One time sheeven tossed away the whole box of
manga. And this is a lady whodoesn't easily toss things away.
And so I. And she will alwaystell me about how the Japanese people
are quite evil and you shouldnever believe them and blah, blah,
(04:48):
blah. And I thought, wow,maybe my grandma, something is going
on with my grandma and I, Inever really got the chance to talk
to her about what had happenedto her during World War II. I mean,
like a lot of young people, Ididn't realize, you know, Japan was
a. Was very brutal in Asiaduring World War II. And I had. And
(05:12):
I went to school in the west.And so I had always thought that
it was just Hitler and theNazi Germany and the Jewish Holocaust
and whatnot. And so when shepassed away and we found that box
of stuff and I think the onlybook that I could find, the only
(05:33):
books that I could find onthis topic were like the Rising sun
by John Toland and also theRape of Nank King by Iris Changing.
And so I didn't really thinkabout too much about. And then so
I thought, well, if the Rapeof Nanking had 300,000 people who
(05:55):
were killed and there were 30million lives that were lost in Asia.
Then there has to be more thanjust a story of rape of Nanking.
So I started digging intomore. I started trying to find out
more about what was happening.And I think at the same time Dianne
Feinstein was declassifyingthe National Archives documents and
(06:19):
materials. And so I thought,wow, maybe I can just make a quick
trip. And I was very naive,now that I think about it, I was
very naive because that couldhave. I mean, it was started out
as just trying to do a lightresearch on this topic, turned into
10 years of work of digitizingand really scanning these material
(06:44):
because I, when I firststumbled across it, I. And I was
trying to find maybe anorganization that's trying to preserve
history and whatnot. Andthere's really nothing out there
that I could work with whowere doing the same thing of telling
these untold stories andtelling these. And trying to preserve
(07:09):
these primary source documentsfrom the National Archives. And when
I first saw how fragile thesedocuments were, I thought for sure
that I need to do somethingabout it. Because World War II documents
are all mostly onion skin peelpaper. And I mean, even the Civil
(07:33):
War are made of cotton paper.Because World War II really was.
People were facing a lack ofresource and whatnot. And so they
had. And so then the World WarII documents are more fragile than
for say, the Civil Wardocuments, if that's shocking to
you at all.
Actually it is. I mean, youwouldn't think so, but I remember
(07:56):
that at least in World War II,they had to, like you said, the resources
were very thin. That's whypeople were giving up a lot. Even
in here in the United States,they were giving up a lot in order
to help support the wareffort, you know, throughout the
war. So, yeah, that does makesense. I think, you know, your realization,
(08:17):
I guess, that the Asia Pacifictheater in how much of that history
had been forgotten orsuppressed, I guess that kind of
opened your eyes when youstarted going through these fragile
documents. And I'm assumingthat just inspires you to kind of
take a more proactive approachto preserving that, because it was
(08:38):
going to disappear.
Yeah. And what's interestingis also that because Americans had
occupied Japan at the time, soright after the war. So a lot of
the documents that theJapanese had were actually ended
up in Americans hands. And soit makes sense why we have to do
(08:59):
the research in the UnitedStates National Archives.
Oh, that's interesting to knowsomething I did not know. I mean,
even I, I'm not a young guy,so even when I was in school, growing
up in the elementary schooland in middle school and in high
school, our history lessonstaught us the basics of World War
(09:23):
I, World War II, the CivilWar, the very basics of it. It was
nothing really in depth,nothing about the people that fought
the war, nothing about thecultures that fought the war. It
was just a basic understandingthat these were the wars, this is
what took place, these werewho were fighting. At least I was
(09:44):
benefit during my age, becauseduring my time, because they did
tell us who the Axis powerswere, who the Allies were, who the
Allied and who the bad guyswere. Throughout there, I know that
when my kids went to highschool, they learned very minimal
amount of history. When Ibring something up about history
(10:09):
from the past, whether it beeven the Vietnam War or the Korean
War, they know nothing aboutit because in history, they didn't
teach it. You didn't teach it.
Why do you think that is?
I think that America doesn'tfeel I may get in trouble for making
this statement. I think thatAmerica doesn't feel that it's necessary
(10:31):
to teach what has happened andtranspired to our history. How it
was changed, how it wasformed, how it was built and put
into place, and all of theworld around us and how we all interact,
how we all mingle, how we alltook part in transformation. I don't
(10:52):
believe that the educationsystem here finds that important
enough to understand thegeological, the geographical aspect
of how everybody within theworld had some effect during World
War I, World War II, theVietnam War, the Iraq War, the Gulf
War, the Korean War, all ofthose. They don't understand the
(11:16):
full impact, not only to us,not only to the people we were fighting,
but the allies and thecitizens in totality. I don't believe
they find it important enough anymore.
And that's so shocking to mebecause I'm Chinese ethnically. And
it's so fascinating that whenI was learning history and whatnot,
(11:40):
I didn't realize that whofought World War II eventually migrated
to Taiwan until I was readingJames Bradley's book the China Mirage.
And so I reached out to himand now we're doing like monthly
podcasts on our YouTubechannel. And that's just like a little
(12:04):
bit of insight that I didn'trealize. And then nowadays when I'm
watching the news, people arelike, oh, we're going to send weapons
to Taiwan and whatnot. Andthis is. And. And this is the first
time we're going to sendweapons due to Taiwan and blah, blah,
blah. I'm thinking like, no,actually in America sent Billions
of dollars to the same kind ofgovernment, same group of people
(12:27):
like decades ago, and theystill end up losing China.
That's crazy. Yeah, I didn'tknow that either. That's crazy.
I mean I might get intotrouble for saying that, but that's
a historical fact that that'swhat happened.
You know, it, it is. I thinkthat the, the government doesn't
always share the things thatwe need to know and understand. I,
(12:49):
I don't believe that there'sa, necessarily a shadow government,
but I do know that there arethings that happen that we as the
public don't always get directknowledge of until after the fact.
And sometimes not all thefacts and.
Sometimes after the fact theycover up what happened.
Exactly.
Unit 731 that I got reallydeep into because it was very fascinating.
(13:15):
I was reading this book calledDepth Factory and in addition one
he mentioned about how therewere human experimentation done on
American POWs. And then on thesecond edition he said no, there's
no such thing. And I thoughtwow, that's like a big, big chunk
(13:36):
of his book that he took out.So I started like really reading
into what had happened and Ididn't realize that after the first
edition that he wrote therewas a congressional meeting basically
condemning what he had foundout about the POW is being human
experimented on. And so thenhe had to remove it for a second
edition. And, and I startedlooking into like the United States
(14:01):
involvement in unit 731. Andthat's when I realized that because
after World War II and theUnited States had to fight communism,
so then they basically gaveimmunity to all these scientists
who did humanexperimentations. It doesn't, it
didn't matter if they didhuman experimentation on Americans
(14:22):
or on Chinese.
We can't be naive enough to,and I say this in totality, we as
humanity in understanding war,understanding what takes place in
war and understanding theatrocities of war that do take place.
It, it does not surprise methat these kind of things took place.
(14:43):
And it doesn't surprise methat they were suppressed by a government
so that we as individualsdidn't understand the full ramifications
of war. I think lately Iappreciate the media that had come
out and was talking aboutUkraine, not, not to get off the
subject, but Ukraine, theywere talking about the, the, the
rape, the genocide, the, themass elimination of individuals all
(15:11):
at once, specifically becauseof a race, specifically because they
were Ukraine, specificallybecause they didn't. They wanted
to eliminate a completefamilies and so forth, which is typically
not brought out. And it hasn'tbeen brought out in the past. That's
the reason Vietnam War was asit was. Because the soldiers who
(15:33):
went to Vietnam did notunderstand the full ramifications
of war and what war existed.And again, the atrocities, the horrific,
the way it was done, thehorrible treatment of individuals,
the way people were killed,the way people were treated all the
way across the board. So froma perspective, that's why I appreciate
(15:57):
you sharing these stories thatwere unfold, that were declassified,
because that allows us to havea better understanding of what our
grandparents may have gonethrough, our generations that have
gone through, because thattrauma transcends generations. That
trauma is passed down to us.
And I think even though thatthese Unit 731 stories were declassified,
(16:20):
I really don't think that weget the whole story of what was happening
because there was no survivorin this whole unit of unit 731 where
they were doing vivisection.And we don't even know about the
amount of victims who were inunit 731 because they started to
count from like, if they aregoing to do organ removal and whatnot,
(16:44):
they remove the organs. Andthen they start to count from zero
and then to like 1,000. Andthen they start to count again from
zero and then to 1,000. And sowe can just guess that there were
thousands of victims in unit731, but we never really know how
many victims there wereexactly and what the victim's like,
(17:04):
life was. Because it's just somany things that you can get from,
for example, a sample paperthat the scientists produce after
the war. And. And what reallydiscussed me about humanity is that
it wasn't just one scientistwho was doing unit 731. Of course
(17:27):
there was a leader. But thenthe society got into such a. A disgusting
way of idealizing what scienceis and how. What the limit of science
is that like they were able todo just vivisection on. On people
that, that were alive, forexample, by the end of the war. And
(17:50):
it was not just unit 731, itwas other atrocities too that happened.
And for example, in like 1945,I recently stumbled across the Yokohama
trial and really like left,you know, really left that feeling
in me that this is sohorrific. In 1945, in when the war
(18:14):
was about to end, there was agroup of B29 bombers that went into
Tokyo and then they gotcaptured. And then they were sent
to Kyushu Imperial University.A bunch of villagers caught them.
So it's like even villagerswere like catching enemies who were
falling into their country inJapan. And these American airmen
(18:39):
that survived this crashinitially thought that they were
going to be safe by going intoa hospital. But then it so happened
that this hospital staff is inthis Kyushu Imperial University.
And instead of saving them,he. They pushed them into a college
lecture room where they werethen vivisected in front of like,
(19:04):
a group of college students.And this was like, I mean, and they
were basically used as humanexperimentation in front of a classroom.
So it's just like, at whatpoint do we let our society go that,
like, Pharaoh and in. Intolike, basically our society thinks
(19:31):
that human experimentation isokay to the point that they're doing
it in college classrooms?
It's disgusting, actually, isthat. I think, is that the moment
that you kind of understoodthat preserving these stories wasn't
just historical, but it waskind of emotional, cultural, and
kind of deeply human work?Because, I mean, that's something
(19:53):
I did not know. And to me, itkind of shocks me that this had even
taken place. Obviously, that.That's disgusting. Like you said,
it is heartbreaking. Numbertwo, because we're human being. Those
are human beings. You may be asoldier, but you're still a human
being, right?
And they. We move. Like, forexample, I was reading this in the
(20:16):
Yokohama trial. This is likeone of the nurse was saying that
they remove one of theairmen's, like, lungs just to see
how long they can live. Canyou imagine, like a whole classroom
of people watching that happenand no one stepped in to say, like,
hey, maybe it was just ascience, science experiment. And
(20:37):
so what's interesting is,yeah, that's exactly the moment when
I realized that, like, wow,you know, this is not just history
is a part of humanity. And inorder to understand humanity, we
need to learn what hadhappened in the past. And. And in
order for the past to know, tonot repeat itself, we need to learn.
(20:57):
And unfortunately, I think thepast is repeating itself to a certain
extent these days, and that Ithink the awareness needs to be brought
to the forefront of thingsjust like this, or it's going to
continue and probably at ahigher and faster rate. I'm going
to ask you, if you don't mind,because our listeners and our viewers
(21:20):
may not understand whatvivisection is. Can you help us can
understand that kind of whatkind of an atrocity that is in itself?
So they.
Yeah, vivisection is basicallydissecting a human while they're
still alive and withoutanesthesia. Because some scientists
at the moment, at this pointthought that experimentation with
(21:45):
anesthesia was going to messwith the results of the experiments.
So they decided to go aheadand basically cut a human alive without
any of the anesthesia.
And I can't. I can't evenfathom dying. Dying that way. It.
(22:06):
As a police officer, for aslong as I was, I saw a lot of death.
Not say war death, but. But adifferent kind of war. So a. Gunshot
victims, knife victims, axevictims, you know, suicide, you name
it. Of. I have witnessed thedeath of individuals from various.
(22:29):
A sledgehammer, hammers,knives, machetes, a multitude. And
every time that I had everinvestigated any one of those, it
was always just horrific to methat humanity can treat another human
being such as that. And to me,it. I. This is something I. I am
(22:52):
familiar with World War II,familiar with, you know, who. Who
was who. Who fought who. Whowere the allies, who were the bad
guys. But these are thingsthat. That I was unaware of as well,
Even the history that I doknow. And it shocks me for that realization
to come through with that. Imean, that's just one of the. The
(23:16):
censored atrocities orsomething that was minimized during
that time period. Can you helpus understand what some of the other
things that you found were?
Yeah. So in 2015, I thoughtto. I was reading about the Korean
comfort woman, and. And Ithought, wow, this. And the story
(23:38):
goes that, you know, whoeverwere occupying and their woman were
then, in a sense, alsooccupied. So a lot of these comfort
women were basically rapedbrutally by Japanese soldiers day
and night until. Until theycan survive. And a lot of these women
(24:06):
actually perish because a lotof them tried to fight back and whatnot.
And it just so shocking to methat, like, okay, I was thinking
about, okay, if Koreans havereally gone through this, then if
Japan had occupied China, thenChinese. There must have been Chinese
comfort women. So then Istarted researching more into it,
(24:26):
and it was not really wellknown that in Japan had occupied
Shani because Shani was alsolike a communist stronghold. And
they also have some resourcesthat the Japanese armies needed.
And in this village, therewere a bunch of women who were then
serving as Chinese comfortwomen. And so I went over and visited
(24:52):
them, and they were telling metheir story. And a lot of them were
very old. And so you can tellthat they were not willing to really
talk about what had happenedwhen they were younger, because in
Asian, there's like, thisculture of taboo history. And like,
this is not a topic that youtalk about, but because they were
so old, they were willing toshare with me what had happened to
(25:14):
them. And this woman told methat she had to bury her, her child.
She was, she was basicallycaptured into a comfort station and
she was raped day and nightfor like two years. And eventually
she had a child because, youknow, that's what happened. That's
(25:37):
the consequences of it. Andher mom told her to not share that
story with other people. Andthen they went to a cave in the middle
of the night and just buriedthe child alone. I mean the baby,
while the baby was alive andjust kill the baby. And that story
(25:58):
really stuck to me. It stuckwith me because I'm just thinking
like, wow, you know this. Notonly did they have to suffer during
the war, but because of thecurrent, the culture that they were
living in, they had tobasically suffer in silence. And
there's additional victimsbecause the baby that was, that had
(26:20):
to be buried alive. You know,because of this situation. I mean
there's just, it's just like athree part tragedy.
That's. That's unbelievable.It's. I think. Why do you believe
these stories are made hidden?I mean culturally from the Chinese
(26:40):
perspective, obviously Iunderstand that. Because the same
thing goes for here you havecertain cultures of people within
the United States. It's thesame thing. There's things you just
don't talk about. And mymother was that way, my grandmother
was that way. They had thingsthat happened to them that we found
out on their deathbeds thatthings had happened to them that
(27:03):
shouldn't have happened tothem. And it was just like they said,
it was just something theydidn't talk about, period. But why
do you believe these storiesremained hidden for so long?
I think it's politics as well.Because for example of unit 731,
what had happened so in mostof the unit 17v1 activities happened
(27:25):
in like Manchuria and occupiedChinese area by the Japanese. And
it. And when Japan fell inlike 1945 and the Soviet Union had
then started the August,August Storm Operation August Storm
(27:46):
which then they went intoManchuria and then the Japanese scientists
like destroyed a bunch ofstuff, a bunch of evidence and then.
But then the Soviet Union wasable to capture whoever scientists
that have not ran away at thattime and they did like a trial in,
(28:09):
in like the late 40s andbecause the United States was then
aligned with trying to fightcommunism that they said that this
Soviet trial was actually acommunist propaganda. But it turned
out that this so calledcommunist propaganda was actually
(28:30):
true in terms of what theywere exposing about like biological
weapons, humanexperimentation. So I think a lot
of it is political and alsoyou have to think that because during
wartime Japan and like Japanbefore 1945, before American occupation,
(28:52):
they had a more Chineseinspired language. Classical Japanese
is very different than theJapanese today. And so then there's
also language issue. And alsolike the Chinese comfort woman issue.
I think it's like the Koreancomfort women are a lot better known
because South Korea is like anally or they were. They didn't fall
(29:15):
into communism per se. Butthen like Chinese women who were
serving in terms of that theywere all, they were in communist
region. So then, you know,then there's this ideology that you
need to fight, right? Like wehad, America had to fight and had
to fight in Vietnam because ofso called communism. And so at that
(29:40):
time, right after the war,communism. And like, even though
that China was victim of thewar, they can't account for what
they were trying to saybecause of ideology. And also what's
interesting is, so do you havelanguage issue, you have political
issues and you have like acultural taboo issue that people
(30:02):
don't want to talk about ituntil like they're near the deathbeds.
And so there's all these threeissues that are really, I think,
the bulk of why it's so hardto record this part of history.
Do you think that has animpact on the silence? Their silence
has an impact on obviously onthe survivors, yes. But how about
(30:24):
future generations, as Imentioned earlier, because I think
I believe in generationaltrauma, intergenerational trauma.
I've had a lot ofconversations on the podcast in regard
to, on this program in regardto intergenerational trauma. Do you
think that's affected?
I think so. I think that'sreally affecting also geopolitical
(30:46):
issues because South Korea andJapan are supposed to be allies,
but every Wednesday SouthKoreans are protesting in front of
the Japanese embassy. And sothat's just showing how like how
deep that wound is. And a lotof Koreans cannot because Korea was
actually occupied by Japan 30years before Pearl Harbor. And so
(31:14):
that, you know, they weresuffering through decades of Japanese
rule. And so I think thatreally does bring a lot of things
into context instead of interms of today's like geopolitical
issues and alsointergenerational trauma. Like, I
don't think I have ever seenmy grandma smile because when she
(31:38):
was, when Hong Kong wasoccupied, her family had to trade
in all of their family moneyinto military yen and rice rationing
coupons. And after the war,inflation basically killed all these,
like military yen, like toiletpaper was worth more than military
yen. So then just losing yourwhole Family fortune on a war. It
(32:01):
was pretty devastating, I canimagine for my grandma as well. So
I think it does really hurtpeople intergenerationally. And yeah,
it's something that's reallyadding on to like current generation
as well is that the today'slike Prime Minister Sanai Takeaichi
(32:28):
still goes to Yasukuni shrine,which is where they put a lot of
the war criminals in Japan.And you have to think that like there's
no Nazi descendants who aregoing to go enshrine their war criminals.
Right. And their politiciansstill go to go worship them. So why
(32:51):
is it okay for Japan to do that?
You know, And I, I, I learnedfrom it, from another arena that
it amazes me that Japaninfiltrated China and Korea and were
such, I mean, and just brutal.Not just there, but brutal. Wherever
(33:12):
they went, they were justbrutal, brutal individuals. Crazy.
And it's interesting becausewe were doing interview in the Philip
in central coast of Californiaand because there were a lot of Filipinos
who live in central coast ofCalifornia and they Survived World
War II in the Philippines andthey fought. So it's. If you go on
(33:33):
the website, you can see Panayguerrilla fighters as a book and
they fought in World War IIand they were saying that they were
a colony of the United States.When Japan arrived, they were so
excited because they werelike, wow, finally we're free from
the American colonization. Andthen little did they realize that
the Japanese were way morebrutal than the Americans. So they
(33:56):
actually been ally with theAmericans to fight off the Japanese.
That's crazy.
It's like, whoops, every,Everything is relative.
Yeah, whoops. Wrong decision.Can we explore like how you turned
a mission into a movement andhow preserving memory became a pathway
(34:17):
to healing? Because I believethat what you're doing is helping
people to heal because you'rebringing to light things that have
been hidden for so long. Andwe all know that deep down inside,
if we release what we'rerepressing, it allows us to, to mind,
body and soul to heal.
Yes, I also believe that. Andwe just had a conference where a
(34:44):
survivor talked about what hadhappened to her in World War II and
how she lost her brother. Andshe had always thought, this is her
words, not mine, that sheshould have replaced her brother
in terms of like dying andwhatnot. And Willie struck me the
first time I heard her story.And she's told her story now. I had
(35:07):
told her to tell her story forI think since like seven, eight years
ago. So she started tellingher story and I think and the first
time she was telling thatstory, she was really crying. She
was really bawling. And youcan just tell that it's. This is
like, probably one of thefirst time that she's told her story
and really hurt her. And Ithink the last time that she told
(35:30):
this story, she just didanother event with us on in, I want
to say, November, and shestopped crying so hard. She still,
you can still. That she'sstill feeling it. But I think that
just sharing that story meanta lot for her because it. It kind
of. I think that she's healinginternally and now she's donating
(35:55):
to our nonprofit because shereally believes in what we're doing
and sharing her story. Andalso millions of other stories like
hers about World War IIatrocities that people have really
gone through. Because a war isnot like what you imagine in the
movie, that people just, youknow, dress in a beautiful uniform
(36:17):
and then they go to abattlefield and then that's that.
But like, a war is whensomeone's village got invaded and
they have to fight it out.There are like people bleeding on
the streets in front of, like,a store that they normally go to.
Right? I mean, I'm pretty sureyou have seen it as a police officer
that, you know, when you havevictims, it's not like what you see
(36:39):
on the cop show or whatever isactually people's communities being
hurt. And so just by sheddingthe story on that and also like sharing
their story, like, forexample. Well, what I was also talking
about earlier, about theCentral coast where those Filipinas
got to share their storybefore they passed away. And now
their. Their children wouldnot forget those stories. I think
(37:05):
that's a very impactful waythat we have been doing as kind of
a movement. And also not justthat like, a lot of these families
didn't realize that their,Their. Their grandmas were like heroes
fighting the Japanese, like,in the Philippines. So I think it
(37:27):
is also very empowering forpeople to know their family legacy.
I agree with that. And you're.And you're correct. It's. It's not
like what you see on tv, nomatter how or what you think. TV
glorifies it to point a. Acertain perspective and does not
present it in the reality ofwar and the reality of what takes
(37:49):
place. Tell us a little bitabout the founding because of what
you're being able to present,the opportunity that you're presenting
for people to have a betterunderstanding. You founded the Pacific
Atrocities Education, whichyou said that one of the individuals
that spoke with you Kind ofcontributes to what was the vision
(38:10):
for that and how has itevolved since you started it?
When I first started theorganization, I thought that people
just don't know about thishistory because of. I was very naive.
I just think that if we justtalk a little bit more about this
history and do a little bitmore research, then the truth will
(38:30):
come out and whatnot. But thenit turns out that there's a lot of
like political forces thatdon't want these stories to be told.
And for example, sometimes ifI post something related to the war,
I'll either get called nameson social media or there's all kinds
(38:52):
of things that would happen.So I. That's when I realized that
it was more than just, youknow, not telling your story loud
enough. Yeah. And so. So nowI'm not that naive. And really I
just realized that theresearch of World War II, it. There's
(39:15):
still a lot more out there topreserve and research on. And that's
also something that I had notrealized when I first started our
organization and when I firststarted this organization. I thought
going to the National Archivewas going to be one trip and I can
get everything I wanted in oneweek. And they might be able to put
(39:38):
it in the USB drive for me.But it turns out it's taking more
than just one trip. I thinkI've been there at least 20 times
now and made a lot of friends.And yeah, it's just because it's.
It's like some of the foldersare so are. So I would not call it
(39:58):
misplaced, but then organizedin a way that you would not think
that would be organized thatway. So then in the midst of like
German war crime, then you seeJapanese war crimes and then someone
who was like researching oflike I was like making small talk
with this guy who was writinga book about not Nazi war crime and
he was like, hey, you mightwant to check out this box. I just
stumbled across a bunch oflike Japanese war crime issues and
(40:23):
all mixed together. Yes,they're all just, you know, linked
together. So.
Yeah, well, and I thinkyou've. You've now don't remember
if I heard it or read it, butyou've scanned like over a million
pages from the NationalArchives. That's a lot to scan.
And also to put things intocontext and build exhibitions on
(40:45):
our digital archive was alsotaken a lot of brain power from me
because then I need to figureout what was happening in this context
of things.
Yeah, well, I think that'suncovered. It changed what you Uncovered
changed your understanding ofthe war and its aftermath, which
I think that this institutethat you've created, this foundation
(41:06):
that you've created, it'sgiving us an opportunity to have
a better understanding of thewar in its aftermath as well.
Correct. And also we started ainternship program with a few history
departments in. In thecountry. And I hope to do more because
a lot of. I'm even getfeedback from professors that this
(41:29):
is changing their perspectiveon history as well.
So I like the firsthand aspectof it. I. I had the honor of. When
I first moved to Arizona, whenI retired from the police department,
I got a job at a. At thecommunity center just to have something
to do. And while I was there,I met this guy that actually was
(41:51):
a survivor from Iwo Jima. Andhe had fought in Iwo Jima. He actually
was 17 years old. He lied toget in the military. And they didn't
realize it until after he wason the ship, and the ship was already
outside of Iwo Jima, and theyrealized he was only 17 years old.
But as it was, they went,okay, you're here. So. And he said
(42:15):
the. That it. It just theatrocities that he saw there, everything
that he watched and happeningthere. He shot down two Japanese
heroes, which they patted himon the back for on the ship, but
then he got reprimanded for,because he wasn't supposed to be
shooting a gun at 17 andshooting down Japanese heroes. But
(42:38):
his experience with the warand everything that took place after
it, he wanted to document in abook for his family and for his kids
so that they had a fullunderstanding. So we had conversations
that say, I'm grateful becausewe sat down, we had these conversations.
I typed everything out forhim. We taped it and then typed it
(42:59):
all out into a book for him,for his kids. And he told the stories
and told what happened andwhat. What. How he felt and why it
affected him and why thoseaffected his relationships and his.
His. With everything. His. Hiswife, his kids, his parents, everybody.
And he told his story and. Andhe did that so that others could
(43:24):
also hear it and see it. Hefelt that it's a story that needed
to be told. You interviewelders and. Because there's not very
many left of them,unfortunately, because, I mean, they
got to at least be in the 80sand 90s, I'm guessing, and above.
What kind of experience hasthat been for you to be able to listen
(43:46):
to me? It was an honor, but italso opened my eyes to have that
conversation with anindividual that was there, that experienced
It. And it changed myperspective a little bit.
Yeah, I think it really didchange my perspective as well. That's
when I realized that wars arenot like what they portray in movies
where people are dressed upand whatnot. It's like every. It
(44:10):
can happen every to everydaylife. I mean, people who just trying
to live their lives. And itreally is an honor for me to talk
to these people who havesurvived. Like that's a world event
that had happened. And alsoyour Iwo Jima story, it's actually
very common at the time forsoldiers to pretend. I mean, I was
(44:34):
reading this affidavits thatthis Guy was only 16 when he signed
up to go fight the war becausehe felt like he really needed to
go fight the Japanese. Andit's, it's really, I mean, it's must
have been such an event, sucha world event for people to even
lie about their age and tothen to go fight the war and. Yeah,
(44:57):
and Iwo Jima is something thatlike it lasted for. I think I remember
reading this, it lasted forlike about a month, 36 days. And
people who fought on Iwo Jimathink about it for the rest of their
lives. Flags of Our Fathersabout Iwo Jima by James Bradley.
And he's now talking aboutlike the importance of peace on our
(45:22):
YouTube channel. So I thinkfor whoever who wants to hear from
James Bradley, who also wroteabout Iwo Jima and how the president
fell in love with that onepicture from by Joe Rosenberg, decided
to bring people like hisfather and also other people to go
raise money for war bonds. Sothen these people were not only just
(45:44):
living off of ptsd, they werealso having to go over a whole world
tour or the nation tour,raising war bonds while they were
living in pain. I think thatwas really such an impactful story
to unpack as well. Have you,have you watched the movie or read
(46:05):
the book Flags of Our Fathers?
I have not read the book. Ihave seen the movie and I agree with
you. And you know, I canmention that, and I'd like to mention
this as well. When you saidPTSD back then, they didn't understand
ptsd. They just, it wasn'trecognized as ptsd. It was shell
(46:26):
shock or it was, you know,just the, the, the, the fallout from
war is what you wereexperiencing. So they didn't have
a good understanding of that.And I think that contributed to deeper
ptsd, especially when theysent these guys around to continuously
replay that in their head andreplay that to the public and kind
(46:47):
of emphasize everything everyTime that they had to repeat it,
they had to relive it, and itjust kind of emphasized that. But
no, I haven't read the book,but I, I would like to read the book.
After kind of doing theresearch that I've done on you preparing
for this show, I got reallyinvolved in your YouTube channel,
which is a brilliant YouTubechannel that you guys everybody needs
(47:10):
to listen to and to watch. Andhis conversations as well are very
poignant. Kind of brings a perspective.
Thank you for subscribing.Yeah. And thank you so much for having
me today.
It's been a pleasure. I thinkthat you have given us the opportunity
(47:34):
to kind of learn to have abetter understanding and to kind
of move forward. How iswriting a book? I mean, you wrote,
you wrote several books inparticular the maritas of unit 731
and the undrawning of Lotusthat I think are very poignant and
the subject matters unknown tothe public. Can we talk about that
real quick? And what, whatkind of motivated you to write, to
(47:58):
start writing and to put thisdown in a book form?
I love reading books. I justthought that I need to tell the story.
I don't know how we can tellthe story. So then I just started
writing and I just had so muchinformation at the time, after I
interviewed these women andJohnny noticed I call it a novel,
(48:20):
but what had happened are truestories. And these are like from
oral interviews that I havedone. But it's just that I rounded
out one or two scenes. So thenI call it, you know, historical fiction.
Right.
And then the Marutas,everything is true. I have done the
research. And it's just soincredible to me that this human
(48:42):
experimentation, like we allknow about the osw, but we don't
know about something that wasa bigger scale because at this time
they had taken over a wholevillage and they built 150 buildings
just for, just to dedicate tobioweapons research. And I just think
that it's really incrediblethat people don't know about it.
(49:04):
Well, I, I, I appreciate that,that you've done that and you've
built a community of like over34, 000 listeners who care deeply
about the emotional connectionto history and, and so forth. And
I think that what you'velearned, these people crave these
kind of stories. I think ithelps us to move forward. How do
(49:24):
the themes of resilience,identity and healing in these wartime
stories, do you think, mirrorthe personal growth or journeys that
like that you explore? How doyou see yourself moving forward?
I Think actually bringingthese people's stories to life really
(49:46):
helped me in moving forward.And not only that, it really also
put things into what we'reexperiment experiencing today, like,
into context. When I was like,researching these women who were
surviving from, you know, thiskind of brutality and then how they
just lived on, it's like, wow,you guys didn't let that kind of
(50:12):
experience just bring you downand, like, call it a day. You didn't
just roll over and then just.You were able to live on. That survivor
that was talking in ourconference, jing B. Chan, Dr. Jing
B. Chan, who lived throughJapanese invasion and her brother
(50:32):
died during the Japaneseinvasion, she was able to, well,
for a large part of her life,she suppressed that story. And then
she was able to. To get like,her. Her degree in mathematics and
she was a professor. And it'sjust very incredible resilience stories,
(50:55):
even after the war. And Imean, for me, it just like I got
to witness, like, how even,like, terrible things don't really
can, like, just not destroythe human spirit, but to also build
a human spirit and build thatresilience. And for those people
(51:19):
to, of course, is a part ofthem, but at the same time, they
know that, like, they canovercome it. And for me to be able
to witness that was very incredible.
I agree with you. I agree withyou. How can somebody get a hold
of you, find your website andcontribute to your organization in
various ways?
Yeah. So you can go onpacificatrocities.org and make a
(51:43):
donation, or you can also findus on Instagram, Pacific Atrocities.
Edu, and that's where they canfind your books and your podcast
and your YouTube connectionand so many more resources.
Yes.
And I'll make sure those arein the show notes so that people
have an easy way to kind ofclick and get to you.
(52:04):
Great.
This is one more thing beforewe go. So any words of wisdom on,
like, what. What never againmeans to you personally and how listeners
can carry that intention intotheir own lives and communities.
I think learning more historyand learning more about things that
are happening around the worldand around us can really help shape
(52:27):
our future.
I agree with you. Brilliantwords of wisdom. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you for sharingthose. Jenny. Thank you very much
for being part of the show.Thank you very much for what you
do. Thank you very much forsharing your journey and your wisdom
and your experience with us. Iappreciate you.
Thank you for having me today.
(52:48):
Absolutely. Today we steppedinto a part of history that was nearly
lost to silence. But silencedoesn't erase truth that only delays
the healing that truth canbring. Jenna reminded us that history
isn't just a record of whathappened, it's a mirror. It reflects
who we are, what we value, andhow we choose to move forward. The
stories of the Asia Pacifictheater aren't just wartime accounts.
(53:11):
They're human stories. Storiesof suffering, resilience, courage,
and the unbreakable will tosurvive. As she just said, when we
choose to remember, when wechoose to listen, that's when we
choose to honor the voicesthat were once silenced. And Jenny
brings that forward in herproject. So step forward to reconciliation.
(53:32):
Step forward to understanding.Step forward to becoming the kind
of person who refuses to lookaway and help her move her story
forward. Truly never againmust first be understood and never
happen again. So today we tookthat step together. Jenny, thank
you again for work. Thank youagain very much for your work, your
(53:52):
heart and your commitment totruth. And for you watching and listening.
Thank you for being part ofthis journey, for choosing awareness
and choosing empathy, forchoosing to carry these stories forward.
And that's it for today'sjourney. If something sparks your
curiosity or moved you, shareit. Subscribe and stay connected.
You can find us on Apple,Spotify or your favorite listening
platform. You can always headover to YouTube and catch the full
(54:13):
video version. And remember,you're not just listening, you're
part of the story. So untilnext time, keep seeking, keep going,
never stop asking. Have agreat day, a great week, and thank
you for being part of One MoreThing before you Go.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing before
youe Go. Check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
(54:34):
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Clifford Show
The Clifford Show with Clifford Taylor IV blends humor, culture, and behind-the-scenes sports talk with real conversations featuring athletes, creators, and personalities—spotlighting the grind, the growth, and the opportunities shaping the next generation of sports and culture.