November 20, 2025 • 49 mins
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In this special episode of OpsCast, hosted by Michael Hartmann and powered by MarketingOps.com, the crew reflects on the final chapter of MOPsapalooza, the flagship MarketingOps.com conference that has defined the community for years.
Michael is joined by Mike Rizzo, Naomi Liu, and Audrey Harze to look back on what made MOPsapalooza 2025 in Anaheim unforgettable. Together, they share their favorite moments, the energy of the event, and how it felt to say goodbye to a conference that shaped the Marketing Ops profession.
They also discuss the evolution of the MarketingOps.com community, what the event has meant to practitioners everywhere, and what might come next as the movement continues to grow.
In this episode, you will hear:
- Reflections on the final MOPsapalooza and its impact on the community
- Favorite moments, stories, and lessons from the 2025 event in Anaheim
- How MOPsapalooza helped shape the Marketing Ops profession
- What the future holds for the MarketingOps.com community
This episode is both a tribute and a look forward, celebrating the spirit of collaboration, connection, and curiosity that has defined MOPsapalooza from the beginning.
Episode Brought to You By MO Pros
The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals
Ops Cast is brought to you in partnership with Emmie Co, an incredible group of consultants leading the top brands in all things Marketing Operations. Check the mount at Emmieco.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Hartmann (00:25):
Hello everyone.
Welcome to another specialedition episode of OpsCast
brought to you byMarketingOps.com, powered by all
the mode pros out there.
I'm your host, Michael Hartman.
Joined today by everyone.
Mike Naomi.
Always good to have you.
But it is a little bitbittersweet this week.
Yeah.
So I say it's a littlebittersweet this one because
we're recapping.
(00:45):
Is it still the lastMatsapaliza 2025 one, Mike?
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So final year.
Yeah.
So over the past few years,though, it's been kind of one of
the heartbeats of thecommunity, bringing everyone
together, leaders, friends.
Um, I didn't get to go thisyear, so I'm actually really
(01:06):
excited to have this, like tohear all the behind-the-scenes
stuff.
But joining us to help isAudrey Harst, who, as you know,
is the CMO of themarketingops.com community.
And uh since I wasn't able tobe there, I'm gonna probably be
mostly just listening and it'slike simmering in my FOMO.
You know what I mean?
But all right, so like we kindof dropped the whole thing.
(01:29):
I don't know if Mike, if youthere's probably some people who
are new to the community orhaven't heard the news, but
like, or like the background,like what was the driver for
Mopsapalooza and why is thisyear the last one, at least in
this form?
Mike Rizzo (01:48):
That's jumping into it.
Michael Hartmann (01:49):
No, yeah, let's talk about we're not gonna
we're not gonna dance around inmy come on.
Mike Rizzo (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
No, it's good.
Um, we could talk a little bitabout the history of where
things started and sort of endedup.
Um lot of us that were earlyadopters of the community, we
were here doing um an event thatwe used to refer to as summer
camp.
Uh, this was about a day and ahalf of uh one person guiding
(02:16):
the room in the discussion andum really meaningful experience
to bring the community together.
And uh we did that about threetimes.
And while we were doing that,uh, as many well know, um the
Marqueto sort of super userchampion community had um
(02:37):
started to lose a little bit oftheir opportunity to come
together and talk shop at uhwhat used to be Marketo Summit
and is now effectively AdobeSummit.
And so they said, hey, is therean opportunity for us to try to
get some of these championstogether and still allow them to
have their their time to sharetheir knowledge and their
expertise?
(02:57):
Uh, to to which, of course, Isaid, you know, absolutely, but
we we're agnostic of a specificplatform.
And so uh we would we wouldendeavor to do something that
was a bit more um open-ended forfor the entire industry, and uh
regardless of what platformyou're using, right?
And so um what was created fromthat request was Mopsapalooza.
(03:23):
Um yeah, I I I've learned a lotabout starting a conference.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (03:31):
Um I I sort of remember when you were floating
different name ideas and askinga few of us for input.
Audrey Harze (03:38):
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (03:39):
Like it seems like it was just the other day.
Mike Rizzo (03:42):
It does feel like yesterday.
It went by really quickly.
Um yeah, my one of my advisorswas like, I think you're gonna
get sued.
And I was like, why?
I feel like Appalooza's genericenough.
You could attach it towhatever.
Right.
It doesn't matter.
Who cares if it's a con I'm notthrowing a festival of you
(04:02):
know, music and stuff.
Right.
We're fine.
So someone's gonna listen tothis and be like, no, no, no,
I'm totally suing them now.
Michael Hartmann (04:11):
I mean, our audience is growing.
I don't think we're gonna havethat much crossover might just
say.
Mike Rizzo (04:16):
Yeah, probably not.
Probably not.
It's fair.
Yeah, so it was born um, likemany things in our community, it
was born out of a request ofour members asking uh something
new.
And we said, sure, let's figurethat out.
Um yeah.
Michael Hartmann (04:32):
So why what so like so why like why is this
last year?
Mike Rizzo (04:37):
Audrey, why is it our last year?
Audrey Harze (04:39):
Oh, there's so many reasons.
Naomi Liu (04:43):
No dancing around the topic.
Audrey Harze (04:45):
I know aren't like a little bit, I guess.
Um it's just evolved to be, youknow, obviously Mopsapalooza is
highly successful.
We've gotten amazing feedbackfrom everyone about you know,
um, the conversations thathappen there, community coming
together, the sessions, howdifferent it is from every other
conference that they go to.
(05:06):
So there's a lot of like greatthings about Mopsapalooza for
sure.
Um logistically, like if wewere to strip down all that
goodness and just kind of lookat, you know, financially how
the event's put on, um thelogistics from our small team
putting it on and the resourcesthat it takes.
Um, we've kind of hit a bit ofa wall in terms of how we can
(05:29):
still produce like an amazingevent, but also not be like
literally underwater with it aswell.
So it's been this, you know, alittle bit of a balance over the
years, and we've kind of cometo a place right now where we
need to make some choices aboutwhat it's gonna evolve to.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (05:45):
Yeah.
I mean, we haven't beenterribly um secretive about uh
what it what it takes.
Uh, you know, for for thosethat ever want to know, like
I'll unpack pretty much all ofthe learnings that I've had over
the last few years.
Um but you know, we wrote someblog posts if you're curious.
Like uh the very first year, Ithink I titled it like how we
(06:09):
hosted a million dollar eventbefore we ever made a million
dollar.
Um yeah, you look back at yourlack now and you're like, whoa,
on earth.
It's crazy.
Like if you it's always thathindsight, you know, 2020
moment, right?
Like if I knew that it wasgonna be what it was, uh maybe I
(06:30):
wouldn't have done it now.
I I I think I think um whatwe've all endeavored to create
together as a community is uh aspace that is open to learning
and sharing and collaboratingand networking.
And that's what is really theheart of what Popsapalooza is
and represents.
And I don't think that'll goaway.
Um, but yeah, thesustainability of it needs to be
(06:53):
um prioritized now.
So uh, you know, we were wewere really trying hard, but it
it costs to run it the way thatwe were running it, um, with the
four stages and the all thethings, right?
And you know, we did it up.
I I gotta say, we went big.
It was like a go big or go homekind of moment.
Um sidebar on that.
(07:14):
I honestly I like I Ienvisioned the event the only
way I've ever been to aconference, right?
So like I've only ever been toInbound and Dreamforce, right?
So I'm like, oh well, thereforeyou must have many stages and a
nice looking stage and an expohall and uh this and a that.
And and so um that's whatthat's what it was created to
(07:37):
sort of feel a little bit likethose, but uh without all the
pitch slapping happening on thestages and trying to sell you
software all the time.
Yeah.
Um and so yeah, that that costslike a million bucks.
Michael Hartmann (07:49):
We were like, oh yeah.
Well, and I I I having havingworked in and out of the the
events industry in a couple ofdifferent places uh in my
career, like and having marriedto someone who puts on even
smallish kinds of events, um,and her like it is really hard,
right?
People have never like seen thebehind the scenes.
(08:11):
It is there's a lot of work,there's always shit that goes
wrong, right?
And you have to figure it outalong the way.
Not much you can prepare forother than just know what's
gonna happen, right?
Mike Rizzo (08:21):
Just be prepared for the something is gonna go
wrong.
Michael Hartmann (08:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Like every single time like aspeaker having to cancel at the
last minute, right?
Mike Rizzo (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, that has happened.
Michael Hartmann (08:33):
Well, so all that said, like so I'm like
again, like I like eagerlywatched posts about it both like
before, during and after.
And um like it looked like itwas like really a great event.
So what like but what was itlike like from the floor, like
what was it like, Audrey, likeenergy-wise there?
Audrey Harze (08:56):
Yeah, it was um, and you know, to be fair, like
all of our past events have kindof been like this in terms of
the previous Mops of Palooza andeven our summer camps.
There's like this communityenergy vibe of just coming
together, um, you know, alwaystalking in Slack or, you know,
communicating otherwise.
But when you're just like inperson, there's just this really
(09:16):
great energy.
And our community is so great.
We're so supportive of eachother, helping each other all
the time.
So that just really translatesreally well to in-person.
But I think this last, likethis event that we had recently
in Limops Louisa was um, I thinkmaybe because there was a layer
of everybody kind of knowingmight be the last time, you
know, or it's gonna evolve orchange.
(09:36):
The energy was definitely likeheightened.
I felt like yeah, it was likeway high.
Everyone wanting to get thoseextra hugs in, wanting to like
high five in the hall, you know,wanting to make sure they
connected with everyone.
So um yeah, it was reallylovely.
It was, it was, it was great.
It was great to see everybodyand get everyone in the same
room and to get all that greatfeedback about wanting something
(09:57):
else, like this can't be it,and what else can we do?
And how can we support youguys?
So we really appreciatedhearing all of that.
That's awesome.
Michael Hartmann (10:04):
Yeah, I think I remember the first one I went
to, I was like so excited tomeet people in person that I had
had these L9 interactions with.
And what struck me is I I thereare a bunch of people I walked
away not having met because thesessions were so good that
everyone like normally at theseevents, right?
There's like a lot of peoplelingering out.
So I'm curious, like Naomi, youwere you've been to all three.
(10:26):
Like, so what was it like fromyour perspective?
Naomi Liu (10:29):
I think it was, I think the first one, people were
just like so excited to be ableto attend a conference, either
their first one or the first oneback since COVID, yeah.
Right.
And um, a lot of people werejust excited to interface with
people that they had only everreally talked to or engaged with
on the community or onLinkedIn.
(10:50):
And then just being able tomind share with them.
And then it has it quicklybecame this, and while it has
only been, I guess, the thirdyear now, it quickly became the
place that people would lookforward to once a year to get
together with folks that youknow they really only engage
with virtually, myself included,right?
(11:10):
There's people that I wouldonly see at this conference.
Um, and so definitely when thethe note the notice came out
that this was the last one, youknow, I would a lot of people
come up to me like, Do you knowwhy Mike and the Sasha are not
doing this again?
And as if it's like this likesomething like, what's the real
reason?
I'm like, oh well, like youshould really talk to, you know,
(11:34):
or we're draining a podcast,you should listen, we'll talk
about it.
Yeah.
Um, but honestly, I I do feellike it's a place where people
in our community can cometogether and it's almost like a
safe space where we just allknow what we a, what we all do,
the pain points that we allhave.
We just we don't even have toreally explain or say something,
(11:54):
and we all just like kind ofget it because we've all been
there or are currently doingsomething like that or about to
do something like that.
And it's just nice to be aroundpeers where you feel just a
connection based on shared, Iwant to say shared trauma.
Yeah, sure.
Worked out.
Audrey Harze (12:16):
It's true.
Naomi Liu (12:19):
That's true.
Mike Rizzo (12:20):
Yeah, it's it's a traumatic thing to hit send on
an email and have the righttoken in place.
Right.
Naomi Liu (12:26):
Only marketing house people will know what it's like
to like wake up in the middle ofthe night at 2 a.m.
and be like, did I limit it tonot send to the whole database
and then crawl out of bed anddouble check and then go guard?
Mike Rizzo (12:39):
Did I attach the suppression list up there?
Yeah.
Still had done that import.
Did I actually have the rightfield there or did I create a
hundred thousand?
Naomi Liu (12:51):
Exactly.
Is the first name field mergefield correct?
You know, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (12:56):
Shut this.
That's that's exactly what umit is totally what happens at
Moxapalooza.
And and frankly, it um I thinkwhat carries in any event that
we as a community bringtogether, it it just pulls
through no matter what.
Um which is like um reallypleasant.
(13:20):
Uh it doesn't break so far aswe can tell.
It doesn't break at that scaleof you know, almost 500 people
who were at Mopsa this year.
Um, we were worried about thatat first, like going from the
summer camp where you had about50, 60 people, or like, hey,
does this intimate sort of umconnective tissue of like how we
(13:43):
all relate to each other, doesthat break?
There's like hundreds andhundreds of people, and what we
realize is it doesn't, it justgets harder to Michael's point
to like see everybody and thenalso go enjoy the content
because you got some of yourexperts and your favorite people
sharing, and you're in themiddle of a conversation, you're
(14:05):
like, shoot, I wanted to gowatch, you know, Scott or Daryl
or Jess or whoever, right?
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So it's it's pretty special inthat regard.
Um, but I think there's ways,like I said uh just a moment
ago, wherever the community sortof manifests itself physically,
(14:26):
um we tend to see that youknow, if it's an event that
we're organizing and that we'rein charge of, even a coffee
meetup.
Like uh Audrey and I had thechance to do the coffee meetup
uh at inbound this year.
And even that felt like reallyspecial, right?
So there ended up being like,well, like 60 people or
(14:46):
something came and and theylingered for forever and they
realized they had to go get totheir sessions at inbound um
because they were they werefinally getting a chance to just
like meet people from thecommunity and just talk shop.
Yeah.
And so I think we'll be able tocarry that through in a new
iteration of Mopsapalooza, uh,potentially like bringing back
(15:10):
some of the summer camp things.
Um, those are all we are we areactive, Audrey and I are like
literally in the throes of uhannual planning, like many of
you are.
Um, because we're recordingthis in November of 25.
Um and so you know, we'retrying to figure out well, what
does that look like movingforward?
Yeah.
We keep bringing the peopletogether.
Michael Hartmann (15:32):
So so uh what were the big highlights?
Maybe go around.
I'm gonna I can direct since uhlike I've got you guys in
different spots of my screen.
Like I'll start with top left,that's Naomi on my screen.
So what what what was your whatwas your big highlight from the
from it last year?
Naomi Liu (15:49):
I think maybe this year I wanted to make more of a
concerned effort when I attendeda session, or if I was like
even in the panel that Imoderated to try to engage more
with either the presenter or thepeople in the audience after
the fact and talk about um, youknow, the topic at hand.
And I I wanted to make aconcern to do that.
(16:11):
And I feel like um I got a lotout of that because depending on
the session itself, being ableto deep dive or debrief with
other people that were inattendance or even with the
presenter themselves reallyhelped me to give like depth
context.
So, you know, why are theychoosing to present on this
fact?
Or why are you choosing to goto the session?
(16:33):
Are you having a similarstruggle?
Are you trying to learnsomething?
Are you trying to expand yourknowledge as to like what are
some issues that couldpotentially come down the
horizon on a certain projectyou're working on?
I think just like I tried tomake more of an effort to ask
questions.
Um and I don't know, Ipersonally just got a lot out of
like the interaction and theconversations that happened even
(16:55):
outside of the sessionsthemselves.
I'm doing that.
So the intentionality you hadgoing in, but to like deeper the
conversations, showing up andjust listening, taking it, and
then like compartmentalizing itinto my day-to-day, but also
like being, like you said,intentional about talking to
others.
Like, what did you get out ofthis?
Oh, I didn't think about that.
You know, that's a good spintab.
Okay, that makes sense.
(17:15):
You know, like just I I thoughtthat that was really that was a
takeaway for me that I reallyvalued this year.
Cool.
How about you, Audrey?
Audrey Harze (17:23):
Yeah, kind of similar to Naomi, um, where I
tried to be more mindful of likestepping away from obviously
the logistics of the event andjust connecting with people and
what, you know, um, just havingthose conversations.
I think the two highlightsthough were well, the women's
breakfast, Mopsa Melosa, whichNaomi and I had hosted one.
Michael Hartmann (17:42):
I was I was wondering if that was gonna come
up.
I was so glad.
I knew there was a struggle,like there was a there was a
challenge challenge gettingsponsorship for that.
I was so glad to see thathappen.
Audrey Harze (17:50):
Yeah, we ended up getting three sponsors, which
was amazing.
The room was full.
We had like a wait list.
Um, and it was just such aspecial moment because again, we
did um similar to last year, wehad everyone write a future
letter to themselves.
And um, in a year's time, wemail it back to them.
And a lot of times they forgetthey even wrote what you know
(18:10):
what they wrote or that theyeven wrote the letter.
And so we did it last year, youknow, to this year, and so many
people commented and commentedabout how um wonderful it was to
see how far they've come.
Because, you know, a lot oftimes we forget about all of our
accomplishments and all thethings that we actually do, and
we tend to like, you know, leanin on all the stuff we didn't
do.
So it was kind of a nice umthing to be able to do again
(18:31):
with the women's breakfast.
Everyone was really excitedabout it.
So that was a highlight for me.
And then I guess the otherthing was I thought the food was
fantastic.
Really enjoyed the food at theevent.
I thought it was fantastic.
So that was great.
Naomi Liu (18:46):
This always this year was can I say better than last
year?
Audrey Harze (18:51):
You can was a better than last year.
Mike Rizzo (18:52):
You you can last year's food, yeah.
Of course.
Last year's food was we gotlots of compliments on their
food over at the Marriott, andwe're still in the Marriott
family just at the West End.
Uh yeah.
Uh this this past year.
And uh I will say, like, I Itotally noticed the quality was
like even it felt like it was anotch above where we were
(19:14):
before.
Michael Hartmann (19:14):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (19:15):
Um, and perhaps that's just the chef or the
Weston brand or a mix of both,but yeah, really good.
Yeah, it was definitely reallygood.
I I have to agree.
We did fall short on the foodand beverage minimum, though,
which was shocking.
Michael Hartmann (19:28):
Was shocking.
Man, we could get that.
Which part of the beverage partdid you come under though?
That's what I want to know.
Mike Rizzo (19:38):
Yeah, is literally, I I think it literally came down
to not having spent enough onbasically provided beverages.
Um, but it's it's crazy becauseyou know, for those of you who
may not know, like hosting anevent, you have these minimums
you gotta hit.
Um, and we did our best to dialit in this year for all of the
reasons we've we've previouslysaid, right?
(19:59):
We really wanted to um have theright event experience, but
make sure we could try to likesustain.
Uh, and so we we really pairedback and to create create the
right um exposure.
And it sounds like, you know,from from everyone I've spoken
to so far, it didn't feel likewe pulled anything away where
like the the from the food andthe hospitality side of things,
(20:21):
it felt like it was still prettygood.
Uh probably, you know,everybody's here and there on
this idea of breakfast in themorning or pastries or whatever,
but um so I guess because wefell short, the for those that
really wanted that, they'relike, see, I should have told
you.
I told you you should have hadbreakfast or whatever.
Michael Hartmann (20:40):
It's amazing.
Again, like uh across events,right?
The most common feedback,positive or negative, is about
food beverage.
Like, yeah, across everyindustry, every kind of event,
there's always people who arenot happy about it.
Mike Rizzo (20:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's uh that was the thing Iwas gonna say at at the last
little piece of the top of thisuh session today is like you
will always disappoint somebody.
Yeah.
Like yeah, it just doesn'tmatter.
Yeah.
Which is hard.
Uh I was actually speaking toPierce about this.
He's the CEO of NAC, and hecame came down to our event for
(21:15):
the first time, and they've beena great sponsor of ours.
So shout out to Knack for beinga sponsor.
Um, but he he and I weretalking and he was just asking
about you know feedback and andhow this event stuff goes.
And I explained that moment howlike there's always somebody
that's not happy about thething.
Yep.
Um, and he's like, that wouldjust eat at me.
(21:36):
And I was like, oh, it it eatsat me.
Yeah, like so bad.
Like, you know, I I actually,you know, I look at all of the
survey data for those of you whotake the surveys.
(22:46):
Uh I I don't shy away from it,but there's time there's times
where I don't want to open thetab.
So I'm gonna read something andbe like, I just I'm gonna stew.
Michael Hartmann (22:56):
Like, how could I have done that better?
Well, it switched around then.
So, what was your biggestpositive sort of like moment
from the from this year?
Mike Rizzo (23:10):
Okay, first of all, the venue for me.
I I'm looking at this from theperspective of of being the host
this year.
Um, all the way around the thevenue was a little bit more
intimate.
It was newer, it was nicer, itwas really just awesome.
Um, and we're very lucky to beable to host it there.
Um, so I think I I was reallypleased with the outcome of the
(23:30):
staff and all that stuff thatworks there and the venue and
all that.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (23:34):
Um, but from a from a run-of-show perspective, um
I'm not exactly sure what I diddifferently.
Um and I don't mean to takecredit for anything, I just mean
that in curating the show,there's a lot of work that goes
(23:55):
into that.
Michael Hartmann (23:56):
Sure.
Mike Rizzo (23:56):
Um, our community gets to vote as ticket holders
on all the sessions.
And then what we do is we endup sort of like picking what
bubbles to the surface.
And I, as a as a curator, justto ensure that we don't see one
speaker like five times.
Uh, because unfortunately, likecertain speakers get highly
rated like for lots of differentsessions they submit.
(24:17):
Yep.
Um, and the same is true forbrands.
We try to make sure that likewe don't have a particular
agency show up like five times,um, or you know, software
company or something.
But the event this year, Iwould say the content was just
like it it really flooredpeople.
Um, it felt like every singlepiece, every time I turned
(24:40):
around, someone was talkingabout the last session they went
to and how good it was, whichmeans the community really
showed up.
Yeah.
You know, and they really theydid a nice job as attendees, as
ticket holders, rating forrating those sessions and
curating the event that theywanted to see.
And then those speakers reallyshowed up and they did a nice
job.
Um that that was noticeablydifferent this year, and I was
(25:05):
really excited about that.
And then selfishly, Audrey andI showed up.
We we were, I don't know, wewere vibing, man.
Vibing, big time was great.
Yeah, I have to like put thison record.
Like that opening session forus felt so good.
Yeah.
And just like we knew what wewere talking about.
(25:27):
You know, for those of you whomight watch us on stage in the
prior two years, like wegenerally had a sense of what we
wanted to talk about.
And you know, it was good, itwas fine, but never have we
ever, I don't think, felt asconfident and as good about that
uh session as as we did that.
Yeah.
Audrey Harze (25:45):
So absolutely on where to go.
Mike Rizzo (25:50):
Yeah.
I was really excited aboutthat.
Michael Hartmann (25:54):
So I I I know this is a like again,
bittersweet, right?
It's the end of uh one thing,but it's beginning of something
else, you know, yet to bedetermined.
Like, what do you think from alegacy standpoint?
Like, where do you think thisis gonna leave things?
And feel free to suit your ownhorn, right?
I mean, like I'm curious tohear where you think that like
what's gonna be that output.
Audrey Harze (26:16):
That's a good question.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Mike Rizzo (26:22):
I don't know.
I'm trying yeah, yeah.
We're we're we're reallyruminating on this.
We are.
Audrey Harze (26:28):
Um yeah.
Mike Rizzo (26:29):
It is I I think just you know, again, lifting the
veil a little, you know, try tounderstand what's going on here.
Like we exist for thecommunity, for the sake of the
community, for the profession,for the vocation.
We want to be a certificationbody that establishes what it
means to be a professional inthis field, how you earn the
(26:52):
trust and respect from a boardor a C-suite of executives to
turn to you as the expert in theroom that they need by their
side as they go to launch anymodern marketing operational
sort of framework, right?
Modern marketing doesn't helpthem without Martech and
probably need somebody to runthat technology.
And so um when we think aboutthat as our through line, um it
(27:21):
really comes down to just usfiguring out how do we focus on
those values um and and stillbring bring together you know
aspects of of what has been funand exciting and stuff.
And effectively what that meansis like we aren't an events
(27:43):
company, right?
Right.
If we it was it and it's funny,Audrey and I like internally,
we've had a number of thesediscussions.
Uh we brought on a fractionalCFO.
Some of you actually met him.
His name is Tony.
He ran a session for thecommunity.
Um and we've really helped tryto understand what all of this
is that we're working on and howdo we keep it alive.
(28:05):
Yeah.
Um, and we've repeatedly toldourselves that we're not an
events company.
And yeah, like we kept doingmore and more events.
Um and so you know, events are apart of the mix.
Sure.
Probably not gonna go away,virtual and physical, right?
Um, but when it is as heavilyresource constrained as it is,
(28:26):
both time and money, um, we haveto make some make some
decisions on how to keep thosein the mix in a in a way that
matters.
Audrey Harze (28:34):
Right.
Michael Hartmann (28:34):
Well, I will like since you're hesitant to do
it, I'm gonna like I'll saythis.
Like, I having not been to thisone, right, just but knowing
some of the behind the scenesstuff that I do.
So first off, I think, yeah, Ithink Naomi really described it
well about how like over theyears, right, this this appetite
for this kind of community tocome together and and help each
(28:57):
other out.
And Audrey, you talked about ittoo.
Like, I think it's really I'vebeen around a lot of different
kinds of functional teams andthings like that, and I think it
is unique to this space.
Um I think part of it is likethe it is the shared trauma, a
shared understanding of what itlike it's like to go there.
But also I think this like thereactions you got from people
(29:17):
about like, is this really thelast one and what's coming next?
Um, says a lot about the waythat you guys have built this
community for the people in thecommunity.
And um because I've again beingpart of other communities, this
is this one stands out.
Like I shed shedding a lot ofmy active involvement in other
communities because this onejust stood out, right?
(29:40):
And it's I think it says a lotabout the two of you and the
rest of the organization, likeall the people involved about
like how this community hastaken advantage, not taken
advantage, but like itreinforced some of the innate
characteristics of people whoseem to gravitate to this kind
of profession.
So I say thank you, and I'msure others would do as well.
So Namien, do you want to likeuh say anything about that too?
(30:04):
I'm putting you on the spot.
Naomi Liu (30:07):
No, I think um there's a lot of people in the
community that are wonderingwhat's next, like if there's
going to be smaller events or ifMOPSA would ever come back, or
you know, are they going to haveto go to bigger events like
Summit or Inbound to be able tosee the people that they
(30:31):
normally would like to see, butthose are more platform uh
specific as opposed to vendoragnostic.
Um, and so I you know, I Ithink we don't have all the
answers yet.
Maybe we haven't like thoughtabout everything.
Um but just know that there isa huge appetite for that, and I
(30:53):
think everybody would welcomesome form of connection coming
back if it's not next year orthe year after.
Um that that's a lot of thequestions I've been getting
anyways.
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (31:05):
Yeah.
I think um version of uh MOPSAwill live on.
Um I think at a minimum thisyear in 2026 coming up, we're
gonna move MOPSA online.
Just purely for the sake oflike everybody's got some
(31:27):
incredible content.
It's really hard to pick allthe speakers every year.
So like let's make sure we keepthat content going.
Uh, and then as we head into2027, we're gonna try to
understand how do we dobasically MOPSA in a way that is
a little bit more approachable.
Um, and I think along the way,we'll we'll try a few other
(31:51):
things um with our localchapters and see if it can sort
of manifest itself uh alongsideother events where people would
love to go.
You know, the reality is isthey all have limited time and
budget um to go to all thesethings.
And so, you know, just puttingit out there for those that
listen to this, um, the originalidea of Mopsapalooza, there's
(32:15):
two things that I had said thatI would kind of love to have
seen come to fruition.
And that doesn't mean that itwon't.
It just just sort of where theidea started from.
And one of them wasMopsapalooza was meant to be
sort of like a festival ofmicro-user conferences with real
actual practitioner discussionsuh throughout.
(32:39):
Because suffice to say, we alluse these tools and we love to
go to whatever user conference,right?
Um, because we're passionateabout that.
But again, my budget islimited.
And so, well, what if webrought everybody together and
we just had real learning and anopportunity to go check out a
few of those things?
Um, so that was kind of thePalooza festival of it all.
(33:01):
Um, and then uh point numbertwo was the idea that um
Opsipalooza might it would havebeen bad to have done this in
the first year for obviousreasons, but um, maybe it shows
up every other year in person.
And um again, it's to berespectful of the fact that
(33:23):
there's a lot to learn andthere's a lot of other things
you want to go do.
And so um I was just trying torecognize that I know as an
employee, I would love to go toinbound or summit or wherever,
right, and still get involved inthose communities.
Um, but my company's not ableto pay for me to go to all of
them, and I certainly can't getaway from the family all that
(33:44):
often.
And so maybe our community canmeet our members where they're
at and just respect that weunderstand that you want to go
to those other things.
Um and so perhaps we couldbuild a a system where we say,
hey, go to that this year andthen come to back the next year,
and because we're just not evendoing it.
And now the decision's off thetable.
(34:04):
Um, but again, like had we havedone that after a successful
year one, it would be like Idon't know how to describe it,
but it'd be just like takingsomething in motion and just
like stopping it immediately.
Um so we had to do it at leastfor a second year, and then I
was like, ah, we'll do it again.
Michael Hartmann (34:22):
So I've seen like I think um I'm I'm really
excited about the local chapterstuff, and I I'm in Dallas, and
I'm really grateful for thepeople who are trying to to make
that happen here because it isit's hard in Dallas, probably is
in other markets where peopleare really spread out and trying
to connect, people have otherthings.
So I try to get to as many as Ican.
I haven't been to as many asI'd like to, but I think that's
(34:43):
another way of doing it.
So if the people who are arepart of this who either whether
or not they made it toMapsapalooza, right, if they're
not engaging with their localmarket or local chapter, um, I
would encourage them to do itbecause I think it's a way of
carrying this forward throughthe rest of the year, right?
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Absolutely.
Audrey Harze (35:02):
And it's one of the areas like that we, you
know, Mike and I agree on for2026.
We're gonna put a lot moreeffort and resources into
building those chapters out andsupporting our chapter leaders
because we agree that's a reallygreat avenue for people to
still come together in person.
It's a little bit easier,obviously, because it's in their
community and where they are.
So yeah, it'll be great.
Mike Rizzo (35:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this is the call out to theto the wild for for those that
are uh interested in supportingthe local chapters.
We could use your help.
They could use your help.
Um, you know, we're they'rejust self-organizing, trying to
people bring people together andlearn about this vocation and
talk shop.
(35:41):
And, you know, literally like athousand bucks can bring
together a really cool, youknow, meetup event.
It's not expensive.
Um, I know, you know, it'ssounds like I'm begging for
charity or something like that,but like the reality is that you
know they want to get togethermore often and the more support
that they can have, uh, thebetter.
(36:02):
And so if you're interested insupporting our local chapters,
we would love to have you.
But um, gosh, we're we're in alot of places right now.
Um we have like 16 regionalsort of chapters.
So uh, and if you're interestedin in hosting a chapter, we're
here for it.
Um, but yeah, we're we'reglobal at the moment.
Michael Hartmann (36:26):
That's awesome.
So like it kind of leads me toanother one.
So it sounds like you know,Mops Blue is a in it the form it
was, at least for now,foreseeable future not gonna
happen.
You're working through otherstuff.
So if people want to eitherhelp or get involved with local
chapters or want to um get giveyou ideas about things, knowing
(36:48):
that like with this all this incontext, do you are you guys
looking for input right now?
Do you want to like you want tolike give us a minute to get
through it ourselves?
Like, how are you thinkingabout that?
He's looking at me and I'mlooking at him.
I I I so I feel like I likethis is a weird like I think
I've stumped both of you liketwice now, and I can't like I
(37:10):
like the the having the eitherof you have anything to say
right away, like I will say forme, I'm always looking for
feedback, you know, DM me inSlack, email me, all the things.
Audrey Harze (37:21):
I'm always looking for feedback.
I can I tend to appreciatehearing that insight.
So yes.
Mike Rizzo (37:27):
Yeah.
Uh I was uh uh Audrey and I areoften on the same page and we
don't talk about whether or notwe're on the same page, uh, but
we did not.
And uh yeah, the answer is likethe the feedback loop and um
we'll refer to it as the thespout or the water faucet.
(37:51):
It is on all the time, right?
Um I am always getting it, andso don't feel like you're gonna
bother me or Audrey with anidea.
Um, I get a lot of that too, orsomeone's like, you probably
don't want to hear this, buthere's this thing, but sick and
like, no, no, no, we want tohear like um the reason all this
(38:11):
stuff exists, I mean, literallythe reason the community has
the channels that it has, theMOPSA, the summer camp, all of
the things is because somebodyat some point said, Hey, could
we do that?
And yeah, I said, Yeah, we'llfigure it out.
Audrey Harze (38:25):
Yep.
Mike Rizzo (38:25):
So yeah, send your feedback.
We're totally open to ways tobring the community together.
Um, new activations too.
It doesn't always have to becentered on some specific like
attribution discussion orbusiness related topic.
Like it is totally okay ifyou're like, oh, I would love to
organize a Dungeons and Dragonsnight, right?
(38:47):
Like, great.
I also know a guy for that.
Um, you know, you want to do apoker night virtually, cool.
Like, you know, it's fine.
Like we want the community tocome together and shared
interests and meet each otherbecause at the end of the day,
we're all actual people thathave other uh passions that
aren't just marking apps.
Michael Hartmann (39:07):
So yeah, I mean, I just like I'm glad you
say that because like even it'sfunny because I was thinking
like that's your attitude oflike always bring the feedback
is kind of the one I take, evenprofessional.
Like I used to get really diffoffensive, offended or uh
defensive about feedback becauseI kind of took it personally,
and then I like at some pointthe switch went over and I was
like, no, bring it all.
(39:28):
Like I want it all, and I thinkit there's a lot of value in
that because it's you know,sometimes if you if you don't do
that, right, great ideas don'tcome your way and then you miss
out.
Mike Rizzo (39:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I I have to say, um just likefrom a professional development
standpoint, right?
Um when feedback comes inone-offs, it does feel very
personal.
Yeah.
But when you open it up and youand you open yourself up to
just saying, hey, no, no, no,just like let it all come, you
(40:02):
now get to start to objectivelyevaluate all of these new
inputs.
Michael Hartmann (40:07):
Yeah.
You look for patterns, right?
Mike Rizzo (40:09):
You look for patterns and similarities, and
all of a sudden, that is thesame thing.
Patterns and similarities.
Um, but you you definitelystart to um not feel as like
personally it's yeah, right.
Um, and and and I think foranyone who's watching or
listening to this and you're ina role, um, you know, doesn't
(40:33):
matter if you're not hosting aconference, right?
You could always get somefeedback and just open yourself
up to it.
Um it'll it it definitely makesa difference.
It took me a while as well,Michael, to get used to that.
Michael Hartmann (40:44):
Yeah.
It's not easy.
It's not easy.
Mike Rizzo (40:48):
Yeah, separating yourself from your work.
Michael Hartmann (40:52):
So maybe maybe we can kind of start to wrap up
here a little bit and go likewhat like I know you guys are
still in the midst of planningfor 2026, but like what are like
what are you most lookingforward to in 2026 and through
the end of this year and kind ofwhere things are going with the
community?
Audrey Harze (41:14):
Well, I I I'm actually there's a few things.
I think um So because MopSapalooza is evolving and it's
not gonna quite be what it was,it actually opens up a lot of
our time and resources to focuson other things.
So I'm actually really excitedabout that.
Because I think Mike and I havehad a lot of like great ideas
that we wanted to execute and wethink would be really great
(41:34):
with the community and for thecommunity.
We just haven't had the time orthe energy or the like mental
capacity to like focus in onthat.
So I'm actually really excitedthat we like as we're going into
planning, we're able to likethink those things through a
little bit more.
Um, you know, one of the thingswe've talked about is maybe
refreshing the website, youknow, like I mentioned earlier,
more of a chapter lean.
(41:55):
Do we revive our ambassadorprogram?
Do we do a mentoring program?
Like there's a lot of differentareas that we want to put more
energy into, especiallycertification.
So I feel like now that we havethe time to do that, I'm really
excited about what's happeningnext in those spaces.
So that's really exciting tome.
Mike Rizzo (42:14):
Yeah, I have to agree.
Um I I'll I'll say things thatmay not actually come to
fruition in 2026, but there's umthere's a the the gist of it is
or the overriding theme is thatit's leaning back into the
community programming itself.
Um so you know, mentorship hasbeen a request for the last five
(42:40):
years.
Yeah.
Um it is just like an event.
Um doing mentorship programs isnot um overly scalable.
And so it will take uh quite abit of effort to you know make
sure that that comes tofruition.
But we we would love to seesomething happen there.
(43:01):
Um the matcha program that weused to have is coming back.
I saw that it ourselves, sowe're excited about that.
Great.
Um, and and that allows you to,for those that don't know what
that is, that allows you toautomatically meet other members
of the community uh withoutreally much effort.
We just automatically tear youup, which is great.
(43:21):
Um, and then I would say I Iwould really love to come back
into our chapter, or sorry, notour chapter, our um always ch
words, chairperson program.
So when we first got startedquite quite a while ago now, it
feels like, yeah, although itreally wasn't that long ago.
Um, we used to run achairperson program where
(43:43):
someone would represent uh acorner of technology, spot, or
keto, part, whatever.
Um, and though that was fun.
Uh they got to sort of you knowcreate discussions around that
topic.
Michael Hartmann (43:55):
They got to be, they got to be we had we had
a state of the union a coupletimes with those people, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (44:00):
Yeah, we're like, what's going on?
What's the change log?
And then you know the poor partperson was like, nothing
changed.
Sorry, sorry, sales people.
Um, but I would love to seethat come back.
And I and I think one of theways I'd like to see it come
back is to give it even morelove, right?
(44:20):
Like, let's get some people onlike our video feeds, like
showing us how to do somethingcool inside of these tools,
right?
Like, let's get a little bitmore hands-on and not just you
know, meeting and talking aboutthe tool, but let's let's
actually learn how to use it.
Um, and so I kind of want toreinvigorate stuff like that to
bring some of that communitylearning back um in ways that
(44:42):
again are a lot more accessiblebecause it's remote first and
it's you know all that kind ofstuff.
So yeah, lots more focus oncreating um net new sources of
data and knowledge uh at thecommunity level.
That's that's kind of what I'mmost excited about.
Michael Hartmann (45:00):
Naomi, any thoughts from you as we wrap up?
Naomi Liu (45:06):
Um I I feel like this is not the end of Mopsa
Palooza.
It's just uh pause for rightnow, right?
I think that it's just a it'sjust a temporary pause to
regroup, take some time tofigure out, okay, what is the
next iteration of communitygathering look like and coming
(45:32):
back bigger, stronger, morewell-funded, resourced, you
know, not spending a milliondollars when we don't have a
million made a million dollars,right?
Um, I think it's just a pauseright now.
So I'm not really trying to saysomething that seems so final.
Yeah.
It's just that these are thethings we learned in the last
three years, and we're gonnatake that and apply that for
(45:55):
something better.
Mike Rizzo (45:57):
When TBD, but maybe the Europeans are begging me to
go to Europe.
I know that from year one, EuroDisney.
No, mostly Europe.
Naomi Liu (46:09):
You know, your dollar will go farther in Canada or
Texas.
Mike Rizzo (46:14):
Just just an hour ago, I was thinking that too,
Daniel B.
I was like, I get I think weget like 20 or 30 percent more
or something.
Like, I don't even know whatthis darn math is, but maybe
maybe that's a thing.
Michael Hartmann (46:26):
Well, you de I mean, I love I was in New York
last week and it was great, butman, everything's expensive
there.
Mike Rizzo (46:32):
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy.
Everybody's like, why do youkeep doing events in California?
I will tell you the reason why,folks.
One is uh I live here.
No, I'm just kidding.
Michael Hartmann (46:42):
It has nothing to that's a pretty good reason,
though, actually.
Mike Rizzo (46:46):
No, the the the actual reason is I actually flew
to Dallas.
I flew there, and I I checkedout like three events.
We went to dinner, Michael.
Yep, and uh checked out threevenues, and they were they were
double or two and a half X thecost of what ended up coming to
fruition in California inAnaheim here, which is crazy.
(47:06):
Trust me.
Yeah, I know you think theremight be cheaper locations,
other places, but um, I didshop, I promise.
Michael Hartmann (47:14):
They're all expense, they're all expensive,
I think.
At the end of the day, they'reall expensive is the answer.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (47:19):
So Naomi, I think you're right.
It's pause.
Yeah.
Naomi Liu (47:23):
We'll bring last year for now, not see you yeah
later.
Michael Hartmann (47:28):
It's it's it's a it's a not now, it's not a
no, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (47:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But um keep an eye on ourchannels.
We have uh we're gonna do kindof a look back.
Um thank goodness for AI.
I am gonna synthesize a bunchof data over the last three
years and share sort of whatwere the top trends that we saw,
(47:53):
the top sessions, yeah.
Um, celebrate some of thosefolks that had some of those top
performing sessions.
Um, so if you were a speaker atone of the last three years,
you may end up in that mix.
Um, and then it'll the the ideaof that is one to celebrate the
content and to to share somesort of trends is is the second
part, right?
And for all of us to try toobserve what's been happening
(48:13):
over the last three years as wesee it through the lens of
Mopsapalooza content.
So um that'll come out prettysoon.
And then uh uh I think by thetime this episode airs, we'll be
able to announce all of uh thewinners of the no bullshit demo
contest that we ran live.
Uh nice at Mopsa Palooza thisyear.
So um yeah, we're reallyexcited to to shout that out
(48:37):
too.
So keep an eye on thosechannels.
Michael Hartmann (48:40):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I still have FOMO.
Uh I am glad that it was great.
It I mean, it definitely hashad a uh I've seen amazing
feedback from afar.
So glad it happened.
I'm looking forward to what'snext.
So um I don't know where elseto leave it.
So with that, we'll wrap it up.
But thanks to you all for doingdoing this.
(49:00):
Um it's always fun to geteveryone together.
It's I love this, but um you doit more.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
Well, until next time, byeeverybody.
And uh, as always, if you haveideas for topics or guests or
want to be a guest, reach out toany of us.
We'd be happy to get thisstarted.
Bye, everyone.
Bye.
Hello everyone.
Welcome to another specialedition episode of OpsCast
brought to you byMarketingOps.com, powered by all
the mode pros out there.
I'm your host, Michael Hartman.
Joined today by everyone.
Mike Naomi.
Always good to have you.
But it is a little bitbittersweet this week.
Yeah.
So I say it's a littlebittersweet this one because
we're recapping.
(00:45):
Is it still the lastMatsapaliza 2025 one, Mike?
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So final year.
Yeah.
So over the past few years,though, it's been kind of one of
the heartbeats of thecommunity, bringing everyone
together, leaders, friends.
Um, I didn't get to go thisyear, so I'm actually really
(01:06):
excited to have this, like tohear all the behind-the-scenes
stuff.
But joining us to help isAudrey Harst, who, as you know,
is the CMO of themarketingops.com community.
And uh since I wasn't able tobe there, I'm gonna probably be
mostly just listening and it'slike simmering in my FOMO.
You know what I mean?
But all right, so like we kindof dropped the whole thing.
(01:29):
I don't know if Mike, if youthere's probably some people who
are new to the community orhaven't heard the news, but
like, or like the background,like what was the driver for
Mopsapalooza and why is thisyear the last one, at least in
this form?
Mike Rizzo (01:48):
That's jumping into it.
Michael Hartmann (01:49):
No, yeah, let's talk about we're not gonna
we're not gonna dance around inmy come on.
Mike Rizzo (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
No, it's good.
Um, we could talk a little bitabout the history of where
things started and sort of endedup.
Um lot of us that were earlyadopters of the community, we
were here doing um an event thatwe used to refer to as summer
camp.
Uh, this was about a day and ahalf of uh one person guiding
(02:16):
the room in the discussion andum really meaningful experience
to bring the community together.
And uh we did that about threetimes.
And while we were doing that,uh, as many well know, um the
Marqueto sort of super userchampion community had um
(02:37):
started to lose a little bit oftheir opportunity to come
together and talk shop at uhwhat used to be Marketo Summit
and is now effectively AdobeSummit.
And so they said, hey, is therean opportunity for us to try to
get some of these championstogether and still allow them to
have their their time to sharetheir knowledge and their
expertise?
(02:57):
Uh, to to which, of course, Isaid, you know, absolutely, but
we we're agnostic of a specificplatform.
And so uh we would we wouldendeavor to do something that
was a bit more um open-ended forfor the entire industry, and uh
regardless of what platformyou're using, right?
And so um what was created fromthat request was Mopsapalooza.
(03:23):
Um yeah, I I I've learned a lotabout starting a conference.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (03:31):
Um I I sort of remember when you were floating
different name ideas and askinga few of us for input.
Audrey Harze (03:38):
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (03:39):
Like it seems like it was just the other day.
Mike Rizzo (03:42):
It does feel like yesterday.
It went by really quickly.
Um yeah, my one of my advisorswas like, I think you're gonna
get sued.
And I was like, why?
I feel like Appalooza's genericenough.
You could attach it towhatever.
Right.
It doesn't matter.
Who cares if it's a con I'm notthrowing a festival of you
(04:02):
know, music and stuff.
Right.
We're fine.
So someone's gonna listen tothis and be like, no, no, no,
I'm totally suing them now.
Michael Hartmann (04:11):
I mean, our audience is growing.
I don't think we're gonna havethat much crossover might just
say.
Mike Rizzo (04:16):
Yeah, probably not.
Probably not.
It's fair.
Yeah, so it was born um, likemany things in our community, it
was born out of a request ofour members asking uh something
new.
And we said, sure, let's figurethat out.
Um yeah.
Michael Hartmann (04:32):
So why what so like so why like why is this
last year?
Mike Rizzo (04:37):
Audrey, why is it our last year?
Audrey Harze (04:39):
Oh, there's so many reasons.
Naomi Liu (04:43):
No dancing around the topic.
Audrey Harze (04:45):
I know aren't like a little bit, I guess.
Um it's just evolved to be, youknow, obviously Mopsapalooza is
highly successful.
We've gotten amazing feedbackfrom everyone about you know,
um, the conversations thathappen there, community coming
together, the sessions, howdifferent it is from every other
conference that they go to.
(05:06):
So there's a lot of like greatthings about Mopsapalooza for
sure.
Um logistically, like if wewere to strip down all that
goodness and just kind of lookat, you know, financially how
the event's put on, um thelogistics from our small team
putting it on and the resourcesthat it takes.
Um, we've kind of hit a bit ofa wall in terms of how we can
(05:29):
still produce like an amazingevent, but also not be like
literally underwater with it aswell.
So it's been this, you know, alittle bit of a balance over the
years, and we've kind of cometo a place right now where we
need to make some choices aboutwhat it's gonna evolve to.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (05:45):
Yeah.
I mean, we haven't beenterribly um secretive about uh
what it what it takes.
Uh, you know, for for thosethat ever want to know, like
I'll unpack pretty much all ofthe learnings that I've had over
the last few years.
Um but you know, we wrote someblog posts if you're curious.
Like uh the very first year, Ithink I titled it like how we
(06:09):
hosted a million dollar eventbefore we ever made a million
dollar.
Um yeah, you look back at yourlack now and you're like, whoa,
on earth.
It's crazy.
Like if you it's always thathindsight, you know, 2020
moment, right?
Like if I knew that it wasgonna be what it was, uh maybe I
(06:30):
wouldn't have done it now.
I I I think I think um whatwe've all endeavored to create
together as a community is uh aspace that is open to learning
and sharing and collaboratingand networking.
And that's what is really theheart of what Popsapalooza is
and represents.
And I don't think that'll goaway.
Um, but yeah, thesustainability of it needs to be
(06:53):
um prioritized now.
So uh, you know, we were wewere really trying hard, but it
it costs to run it the way thatwe were running it, um, with the
four stages and the all thethings, right?
And you know, we did it up.
I I gotta say, we went big.
It was like a go big or go homekind of moment.
Um sidebar on that.
(07:14):
I honestly I like I Ienvisioned the event the only
way I've ever been to aconference, right?
So like I've only ever been toInbound and Dreamforce, right?
So I'm like, oh well, thereforeyou must have many stages and a
nice looking stage and an expohall and uh this and a that.
And and so um that's whatthat's what it was created to
(07:37):
sort of feel a little bit likethose, but uh without all the
pitch slapping happening on thestages and trying to sell you
software all the time.
Yeah.
Um and so yeah, that that costslike a million bucks.
Michael Hartmann (07:49):
We were like, oh yeah.
Well, and I I I having havingworked in and out of the the
events industry in a couple ofdifferent places uh in my
career, like and having marriedto someone who puts on even
smallish kinds of events, um,and her like it is really hard,
right?
People have never like seen thebehind the scenes.
(08:11):
It is there's a lot of work,there's always shit that goes
wrong, right?
And you have to figure it outalong the way.
Not much you can prepare forother than just know what's
gonna happen, right?
Mike Rizzo (08:21):
Just be prepared for the something is gonna go
wrong.
Michael Hartmann (08:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Like every single time like aspeaker having to cancel at the
last minute, right?
Mike Rizzo (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, that has happened.
Michael Hartmann (08:33):
Well, so all that said, like so I'm like
again, like I like eagerlywatched posts about it both like
before, during and after.
And um like it looked like itwas like really a great event.
So what like but what was itlike like from the floor, like
what was it like, Audrey, likeenergy-wise there?
Audrey Harze (08:56):
Yeah, it was um, and you know, to be fair, like
all of our past events have kindof been like this in terms of
the previous Mops of Palooza andeven our summer camps.
There's like this communityenergy vibe of just coming
together, um, you know, alwaystalking in Slack or, you know,
communicating otherwise.
But when you're just like inperson, there's just this really
(09:16):
great energy.
And our community is so great.
We're so supportive of eachother, helping each other all
the time.
So that just really translatesreally well to in-person.
But I think this last, likethis event that we had recently
in Limops Louisa was um, I thinkmaybe because there was a layer
of everybody kind of knowingmight be the last time, you
know, or it's gonna evolve orchange.
(09:36):
The energy was definitely likeheightened.
I felt like yeah, it was likeway high.
Everyone wanting to get thoseextra hugs in, wanting to like
high five in the hall, you know,wanting to make sure they
connected with everyone.
So um yeah, it was reallylovely.
It was, it was, it was great.
It was great to see everybodyand get everyone in the same
room and to get all that greatfeedback about wanting something
(09:57):
else, like this can't be it,and what else can we do?
And how can we support youguys?
So we really appreciatedhearing all of that.
That's awesome.
Michael Hartmann (10:04):
Yeah, I think I remember the first one I went
to, I was like so excited tomeet people in person that I had
had these L9 interactions with.
And what struck me is I I thereare a bunch of people I walked
away not having met because thesessions were so good that
everyone like normally at theseevents, right?
There's like a lot of peoplelingering out.
So I'm curious, like Naomi, youwere you've been to all three.
(10:26):
Like, so what was it like fromyour perspective?
Naomi Liu (10:29):
I think it was, I think the first one, people were
just like so excited to be ableto attend a conference, either
their first one or the first oneback since COVID, yeah.
Right.
And um, a lot of people werejust excited to interface with
people that they had only everreally talked to or engaged with
on the community or onLinkedIn.
(10:50):
And then just being able tomind share with them.
And then it has it quicklybecame this, and while it has
only been, I guess, the thirdyear now, it quickly became the
place that people would lookforward to once a year to get
together with folks that youknow they really only engage
with virtually, myself included,right?
(11:10):
There's people that I wouldonly see at this conference.
Um, and so definitely when thethe note the notice came out
that this was the last one, youknow, I would a lot of people
come up to me like, Do you knowwhy Mike and the Sasha are not
doing this again?
And as if it's like this likesomething like, what's the real
reason?
I'm like, oh well, like youshould really talk to, you know,
(11:34):
or we're draining a podcast,you should listen, we'll talk
about it.
Yeah.
Um, but honestly, I I do feellike it's a place where people
in our community can cometogether and it's almost like a
safe space where we just allknow what we a, what we all do,
the pain points that we allhave.
We just we don't even have toreally explain or say something,
(11:54):
and we all just like kind ofget it because we've all been
there or are currently doingsomething like that or about to
do something like that.
And it's just nice to be aroundpeers where you feel just a
connection based on shared, Iwant to say shared trauma.
Yeah, sure.
Worked out.
Audrey Harze (12:16):
It's true.
Naomi Liu (12:19):
That's true.
Mike Rizzo (12:20):
Yeah, it's it's a traumatic thing to hit send on
an email and have the righttoken in place.
Right.
Naomi Liu (12:26):
Only marketing house people will know what it's like
to like wake up in the middle ofthe night at 2 a.m.
and be like, did I limit it tonot send to the whole database
and then crawl out of bed anddouble check and then go guard?
Mike Rizzo (12:39):
Did I attach the suppression list up there?
Yeah.
Still had done that import.
Did I actually have the rightfield there or did I create a
hundred thousand?
Naomi Liu (12:51):
Exactly.
Is the first name field mergefield correct?
You know, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (12:56):
Shut this.
That's that's exactly what umit is totally what happens at
Moxapalooza.
And and frankly, it um I thinkwhat carries in any event that
we as a community bringtogether, it it just pulls
through no matter what.
Um which is like um reallypleasant.
(13:20):
Uh it doesn't break so far aswe can tell.
It doesn't break at that scaleof you know, almost 500 people
who were at Mopsa this year.
Um, we were worried about thatat first, like going from the
summer camp where you had about50, 60 people, or like, hey,
does this intimate sort of umconnective tissue of like how we
(13:43):
all relate to each other, doesthat break?
There's like hundreds andhundreds of people, and what we
realize is it doesn't, it justgets harder to Michael's point
to like see everybody and thenalso go enjoy the content
because you got some of yourexperts and your favorite people
sharing, and you're in themiddle of a conversation, you're
(14:05):
like, shoot, I wanted to gowatch, you know, Scott or Daryl
or Jess or whoever, right?
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So it's it's pretty special inthat regard.
Um, but I think there's ways,like I said uh just a moment
ago, wherever the community sortof manifests itself physically,
(14:26):
um we tend to see that youknow, if it's an event that
we're organizing and that we'rein charge of, even a coffee
meetup.
Like uh Audrey and I had thechance to do the coffee meetup
uh at inbound this year.
And even that felt like reallyspecial, right?
So there ended up being like,well, like 60 people or
(14:46):
something came and and theylingered for forever and they
realized they had to go get totheir sessions at inbound um
because they were they werefinally getting a chance to just
like meet people from thecommunity and just talk shop.
Yeah.
And so I think we'll be able tocarry that through in a new
iteration of Mopsapalooza, uh,potentially like bringing back
(15:10):
some of the summer camp things.
Um, those are all we are we areactive, Audrey and I are like
literally in the throes of uhannual planning, like many of
you are.
Um, because we're recordingthis in November of 25.
Um and so you know, we'retrying to figure out well, what
does that look like movingforward?
Yeah.
We keep bringing the peopletogether.
Michael Hartmann (15:32):
So so uh what were the big highlights?
Maybe go around.
I'm gonna I can direct since uhlike I've got you guys in
different spots of my screen.
Like I'll start with top left,that's Naomi on my screen.
So what what what was your whatwas your big highlight from the
from it last year?
Naomi Liu (15:49):
I think maybe this year I wanted to make more of a
concerned effort when I attendeda session, or if I was like
even in the panel that Imoderated to try to engage more
with either the presenter or thepeople in the audience after
the fact and talk about um, youknow, the topic at hand.
And I I wanted to make aconcern to do that.
(16:11):
And I feel like um I got a lotout of that because depending on
the session itself, being ableto deep dive or debrief with
other people that were inattendance or even with the
presenter themselves reallyhelped me to give like depth
context.
So, you know, why are theychoosing to present on this
fact?
Or why are you choosing to goto the session?
(16:33):
Are you having a similarstruggle?
Are you trying to learnsomething?
Are you trying to expand yourknowledge as to like what are
some issues that couldpotentially come down the
horizon on a certain projectyou're working on?
I think just like I tried tomake more of an effort to ask
questions.
Um and I don't know, Ipersonally just got a lot out of
like the interaction and theconversations that happened even
(16:55):
outside of the sessionsthemselves.
I'm doing that.
So the intentionality you hadgoing in, but to like deeper the
conversations, showing up andjust listening, taking it, and
then like compartmentalizing itinto my day-to-day, but also
like being, like you said,intentional about talking to
others.
Like, what did you get out ofthis?
Oh, I didn't think about that.
You know, that's a good spintab.
Okay, that makes sense.
(17:15):
You know, like just I I thoughtthat that was really that was a
takeaway for me that I reallyvalued this year.
Cool.
How about you, Audrey?
Audrey Harze (17:23):
Yeah, kind of similar to Naomi, um, where I
tried to be more mindful of likestepping away from obviously
the logistics of the event andjust connecting with people and
what, you know, um, just havingthose conversations.
I think the two highlightsthough were well, the women's
breakfast, Mopsa Melosa, whichNaomi and I had hosted one.
Michael Hartmann (17:42):
I was I was wondering if that was gonna come
up.
I was so glad.
I knew there was a struggle,like there was a there was a
challenge challenge gettingsponsorship for that.
I was so glad to see thathappen.
Audrey Harze (17:50):
Yeah, we ended up getting three sponsors, which
was amazing.
The room was full.
We had like a wait list.
Um, and it was just such aspecial moment because again, we
did um similar to last year, wehad everyone write a future
letter to themselves.
And um, in a year's time, wemail it back to them.
And a lot of times they forgetthey even wrote what you know
(18:10):
what they wrote or that theyeven wrote the letter.
And so we did it last year, youknow, to this year, and so many
people commented and commentedabout how um wonderful it was to
see how far they've come.
Because, you know, a lot oftimes we forget about all of our
accomplishments and all thethings that we actually do, and
we tend to like, you know, leanin on all the stuff we didn't
do.
So it was kind of a nice umthing to be able to do again
(18:31):
with the women's breakfast.
Everyone was really excitedabout it.
So that was a highlight for me.
And then I guess the otherthing was I thought the food was
fantastic.
Really enjoyed the food at theevent.
I thought it was fantastic.
So that was great.
Naomi Liu (18:46):
This always this year was can I say better than last
year?
Audrey Harze (18:51):
You can was a better than last year.
Mike Rizzo (18:52):
You you can last year's food, yeah.
Of course.
Last year's food was we gotlots of compliments on their
food over at the Marriott, andwe're still in the Marriott
family just at the West End.
Uh yeah.
Uh this this past year.
And uh I will say, like, I Itotally noticed the quality was
like even it felt like it was anotch above where we were
(19:14):
before.
Michael Hartmann (19:14):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (19:15):
Um, and perhaps that's just the chef or the
Weston brand or a mix of both,but yeah, really good.
Yeah, it was definitely reallygood.
I I have to agree.
We did fall short on the foodand beverage minimum, though,
which was shocking.
Michael Hartmann (19:28):
Was shocking.
Man, we could get that.
Which part of the beverage partdid you come under though?
That's what I want to know.
Mike Rizzo (19:38):
Yeah, is literally, I I think it literally came down
to not having spent enough onbasically provided beverages.
Um, but it's it's crazy becauseyou know, for those of you who
may not know, like hosting anevent, you have these minimums
you gotta hit.
Um, and we did our best to dialit in this year for all of the
reasons we've we've previouslysaid, right?
(19:59):
We really wanted to um have theright event experience, but
make sure we could try to likesustain.
Uh, and so we we really pairedback and to create create the
right um exposure.
And it sounds like, you know,from from everyone I've spoken
to so far, it didn't feel likewe pulled anything away where
like the the from the food andthe hospitality side of things,
(20:21):
it felt like it was still prettygood.
Uh probably, you know,everybody's here and there on
this idea of breakfast in themorning or pastries or whatever,
but um so I guess because wefell short, the for those that
really wanted that, they'relike, see, I should have told
you.
I told you you should have hadbreakfast or whatever.
Michael Hartmann (20:40):
It's amazing.
Again, like uh across events,right?
The most common feedback,positive or negative, is about
food beverage.
Like, yeah, across everyindustry, every kind of event,
there's always people who arenot happy about it.
Mike Rizzo (20:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's uh that was the thing Iwas gonna say at at the last
little piece of the top of thisuh session today is like you
will always disappoint somebody.
Yeah.
Like yeah, it just doesn'tmatter.
Yeah.
Which is hard.
Uh I was actually speaking toPierce about this.
He's the CEO of NAC, and hecame came down to our event for
(21:15):
the first time, and they've beena great sponsor of ours.
So shout out to Knack for beinga sponsor.
Um, but he he and I weretalking and he was just asking
about you know feedback and andhow this event stuff goes.
And I explained that moment howlike there's always somebody
that's not happy about thething.
Yep.
Um, and he's like, that wouldjust eat at me.
(21:36):
And I was like, oh, it it eatsat me.
Yeah, like so bad.
Like, you know, I I actually,you know, I look at all of the
survey data for those of you whotake the surveys.
(22:46):
Uh I I don't shy away from it,but there's time there's times
where I don't want to open thetab.
So I'm gonna read something andbe like, I just I'm gonna stew.
Michael Hartmann (22:56):
Like, how could I have done that better?
Well, it switched around then.
So, what was your biggestpositive sort of like moment
from the from this year?
Mike Rizzo (23:10):
Okay, first of all, the venue for me.
I I'm looking at this from theperspective of of being the host
this year.
Um, all the way around the thevenue was a little bit more
intimate.
It was newer, it was nicer, itwas really just awesome.
Um, and we're very lucky to beable to host it there.
Um, so I think I I was reallypleased with the outcome of the
(23:30):
staff and all that stuff thatworks there and the venue and
all that.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (23:34):
Um, but from a from a run-of-show perspective, um
I'm not exactly sure what I diddifferently.
Um and I don't mean to takecredit for anything, I just mean
that in curating the show,there's a lot of work that goes
(23:55):
into that.
Michael Hartmann (23:56):
Sure.
Mike Rizzo (23:56):
Um, our community gets to vote as ticket holders
on all the sessions.
And then what we do is we endup sort of like picking what
bubbles to the surface.
And I, as a as a curator, justto ensure that we don't see one
speaker like five times.
Uh, because unfortunately, likecertain speakers get highly
rated like for lots of differentsessions they submit.
(24:17):
Yep.
Um, and the same is true forbrands.
We try to make sure that likewe don't have a particular
agency show up like five times,um, or you know, software
company or something.
But the event this year, Iwould say the content was just
like it it really flooredpeople.
Um, it felt like every singlepiece, every time I turned
(24:40):
around, someone was talkingabout the last session they went
to and how good it was, whichmeans the community really
showed up.
Yeah.
You know, and they really theydid a nice job as attendees, as
ticket holders, rating forrating those sessions and
curating the event that theywanted to see.
And then those speakers reallyshowed up and they did a nice
job.
Um that that was noticeablydifferent this year, and I was
(25:05):
really excited about that.
And then selfishly, Audrey andI showed up.
We we were, I don't know, wewere vibing, man.
Vibing, big time was great.
Yeah, I have to like put thison record.
Like that opening session forus felt so good.
Yeah.
And just like we knew what wewere talking about.
(25:27):
You know, for those of you whomight watch us on stage in the
prior two years, like wegenerally had a sense of what we
wanted to talk about.
And you know, it was good, itwas fine, but never have we
ever, I don't think, felt asconfident and as good about that
uh session as as we did that.
Yeah.
Audrey Harze (25:45):
So absolutely on where to go.
Mike Rizzo (25:50):
Yeah.
I was really excited aboutthat.
Michael Hartmann (25:54):
So I I I know this is a like again,
bittersweet, right?
It's the end of uh one thing,but it's beginning of something
else, you know, yet to bedetermined.
Like, what do you think from alegacy standpoint?
Like, where do you think thisis gonna leave things?
And feel free to suit your ownhorn, right?
I mean, like I'm curious tohear where you think that like
what's gonna be that output.
Audrey Harze (26:16):
That's a good question.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Mike Rizzo (26:22):
I don't know.
I'm trying yeah, yeah.
We're we're we're reallyruminating on this.
We are.
Audrey Harze (26:28):
Um yeah.
Mike Rizzo (26:29):
It is I I think just you know, again, lifting the
veil a little, you know, try tounderstand what's going on here.
Like we exist for thecommunity, for the sake of the
community, for the profession,for the vocation.
We want to be a certificationbody that establishes what it
means to be a professional inthis field, how you earn the
(26:52):
trust and respect from a boardor a C-suite of executives to
turn to you as the expert in theroom that they need by their
side as they go to launch anymodern marketing operational
sort of framework, right?
Modern marketing doesn't helpthem without Martech and
probably need somebody to runthat technology.
And so um when we think aboutthat as our through line, um it
(27:21):
really comes down to just usfiguring out how do we focus on
those values um and and stillbring bring together you know
aspects of of what has been funand exciting and stuff.
And effectively what that meansis like we aren't an events
(27:43):
company, right?
Right.
If we it was it and it's funny,Audrey and I like internally,
we've had a number of thesediscussions.
Uh we brought on a fractionalCFO.
Some of you actually met him.
His name is Tony.
He ran a session for thecommunity.
Um and we've really helped tryto understand what all of this
is that we're working on and howdo we keep it alive.
(28:05):
Yeah.
Um, and we've repeatedly toldourselves that we're not an
events company.
And yeah, like we kept doingmore and more events.
Um and so you know, events are apart of the mix.
Sure.
Probably not gonna go away,virtual and physical, right?
Um, but when it is as heavilyresource constrained as it is,
(28:26):
both time and money, um, we haveto make some make some
decisions on how to keep thosein the mix in a in a way that
matters.
Audrey Harze (28:34):
Right.
Michael Hartmann (28:34):
Well, I will like since you're hesitant to do
it, I'm gonna like I'll saythis.
Like, I having not been to thisone, right, just but knowing
some of the behind the scenesstuff that I do.
So first off, I think, yeah, Ithink Naomi really described it
well about how like over theyears, right, this this appetite
for this kind of community tocome together and and help each
(28:57):
other out.
And Audrey, you talked about ittoo.
Like, I think it's really I'vebeen around a lot of different
kinds of functional teams andthings like that, and I think it
is unique to this space.
Um I think part of it is likethe it is the shared trauma, a
shared understanding of what itlike it's like to go there.
But also I think this like thereactions you got from people
(29:17):
about like, is this really thelast one and what's coming next?
Um, says a lot about the waythat you guys have built this
community for the people in thecommunity.
And um because I've again beingpart of other communities, this
is this one stands out.
Like I shed shedding a lot ofmy active involvement in other
communities because this onejust stood out, right?
(29:40):
And it's I think it says a lotabout the two of you and the
rest of the organization, likeall the people involved about
like how this community hastaken advantage, not taken
advantage, but like itreinforced some of the innate
characteristics of people whoseem to gravitate to this kind
of profession.
So I say thank you, and I'msure others would do as well.
So Namien, do you want to likeuh say anything about that too?
(30:04):
I'm putting you on the spot.
Naomi Liu (30:07):
No, I think um there's a lot of people in the
community that are wonderingwhat's next, like if there's
going to be smaller events or ifMOPSA would ever come back, or
you know, are they going to haveto go to bigger events like
Summit or Inbound to be able tosee the people that they
(30:31):
normally would like to see, butthose are more platform uh
specific as opposed to vendoragnostic.
Um, and so I you know, I Ithink we don't have all the
answers yet.
Maybe we haven't like thoughtabout everything.
Um but just know that there isa huge appetite for that, and I
(30:53):
think everybody would welcomesome form of connection coming
back if it's not next year orthe year after.
Um that that's a lot of thequestions I've been getting
anyways.
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (31:05):
Yeah.
I think um version of uh MOPSAwill live on.
Um I think at a minimum thisyear in 2026 coming up, we're
gonna move MOPSA online.
Just purely for the sake oflike everybody's got some
(31:27):
incredible content.
It's really hard to pick allthe speakers every year.
So like let's make sure we keepthat content going.
Uh, and then as we head into2027, we're gonna try to
understand how do we dobasically MOPSA in a way that is
a little bit more approachable.
Um, and I think along the way,we'll we'll try a few other
(31:51):
things um with our localchapters and see if it can sort
of manifest itself uh alongsideother events where people would
love to go.
You know, the reality is isthey all have limited time and
budget um to go to all thesethings.
And so, you know, just puttingit out there for those that
listen to this, um, the originalidea of Mopsapalooza, there's
(32:15):
two things that I had said thatI would kind of love to have
seen come to fruition.
And that doesn't mean that itwon't.
It just just sort of where theidea started from.
And one of them wasMopsapalooza was meant to be
sort of like a festival ofmicro-user conferences with real
actual practitioner discussionsuh throughout.
(32:39):
Because suffice to say, we alluse these tools and we love to
go to whatever user conference,right?
Um, because we're passionateabout that.
But again, my budget islimited.
And so, well, what if webrought everybody together and
we just had real learning and anopportunity to go check out a
few of those things?
Um, so that was kind of thePalooza festival of it all.
(33:01):
Um, and then uh point numbertwo was the idea that um
Opsipalooza might it would havebeen bad to have done this in
the first year for obviousreasons, but um, maybe it shows
up every other year in person.
And um again, it's to berespectful of the fact that
(33:23):
there's a lot to learn andthere's a lot of other things
you want to go do.
And so um I was just trying torecognize that I know as an
employee, I would love to go toinbound or summit or wherever,
right, and still get involved inthose communities.
Um, but my company's not ableto pay for me to go to all of
them, and I certainly can't getaway from the family all that
(33:44):
often.
And so maybe our community canmeet our members where they're
at and just respect that weunderstand that you want to go
to those other things.
Um and so perhaps we couldbuild a a system where we say,
hey, go to that this year andthen come to back the next year,
and because we're just not evendoing it.
And now the decision's off thetable.
(34:04):
Um, but again, like had we havedone that after a successful
year one, it would be like Idon't know how to describe it,
but it'd be just like takingsomething in motion and just
like stopping it immediately.
Um so we had to do it at leastfor a second year, and then I
was like, ah, we'll do it again.
Michael Hartmann (34:22):
So I've seen like I think um I'm I'm really
excited about the local chapterstuff, and I I'm in Dallas, and
I'm really grateful for thepeople who are trying to to make
that happen here because it isit's hard in Dallas, probably is
in other markets where peopleare really spread out and trying
to connect, people have otherthings.
So I try to get to as many as Ican.
I haven't been to as many asI'd like to, but I think that's
(34:43):
another way of doing it.
So if the people who are arepart of this who either whether
or not they made it toMapsapalooza, right, if they're
not engaging with their localmarket or local chapter, um, I
would encourage them to do itbecause I think it's a way of
carrying this forward throughthe rest of the year, right?
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Absolutely.
Audrey Harze (35:02):
And it's one of the areas like that we, you
know, Mike and I agree on for2026.
We're gonna put a lot moreeffort and resources into
building those chapters out andsupporting our chapter leaders
because we agree that's a reallygreat avenue for people to
still come together in person.
It's a little bit easier,obviously, because it's in their
community and where they are.
So yeah, it'll be great.
Mike Rizzo (35:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this is the call out to theto the wild for for those that
are uh interested in supportingthe local chapters.
We could use your help.
They could use your help.
Um, you know, we're they'rejust self-organizing, trying to
people bring people together andlearn about this vocation and
talk shop.
(35:41):
And, you know, literally like athousand bucks can bring
together a really cool, youknow, meetup event.
It's not expensive.
Um, I know, you know, it'ssounds like I'm begging for
charity or something like that,but like the reality is that you
know they want to get togethermore often and the more support
that they can have, uh, thebetter.
(36:02):
And so if you're interested insupporting our local chapters,
we would love to have you.
But um, gosh, we're we're in alot of places right now.
Um we have like 16 regionalsort of chapters.
So uh, and if you're interestedin in hosting a chapter, we're
here for it.
Um, but yeah, we're we'reglobal at the moment.
Michael Hartmann (36:26):
That's awesome.
So like it kind of leads me toanother one.
So it sounds like you know,Mops Blue is a in it the form it
was, at least for now,foreseeable future not gonna
happen.
You're working through otherstuff.
So if people want to eitherhelp or get involved with local
chapters or want to um get giveyou ideas about things, knowing
(36:48):
that like with this all this incontext, do you are you guys
looking for input right now?
Do you want to like you want tolike give us a minute to get
through it ourselves?
Like, how are you thinkingabout that?
He's looking at me and I'mlooking at him.
I I I so I feel like I likethis is a weird like I think
I've stumped both of you liketwice now, and I can't like I
(37:10):
like the the having the eitherof you have anything to say
right away, like I will say forme, I'm always looking for
feedback, you know, DM me inSlack, email me, all the things.
Audrey Harze (37:21):
I'm always looking for feedback.
I can I tend to appreciatehearing that insight.
So yes.
Mike Rizzo (37:27):
Yeah.
Uh I was uh uh Audrey and I areoften on the same page and we
don't talk about whether or notwe're on the same page, uh, but
we did not.
And uh yeah, the answer is likethe the feedback loop and um
we'll refer to it as the thespout or the water faucet.
(37:51):
It is on all the time, right?
Um I am always getting it, andso don't feel like you're gonna
bother me or Audrey with anidea.
Um, I get a lot of that too, orsomeone's like, you probably
don't want to hear this, buthere's this thing, but sick and
like, no, no, no, we want tohear like um the reason all this
(38:11):
stuff exists, I mean, literallythe reason the community has
the channels that it has, theMOPSA, the summer camp, all of
the things is because somebodyat some point said, Hey, could
we do that?
And yeah, I said, Yeah, we'llfigure it out.
Audrey Harze (38:25):
Yep.
Mike Rizzo (38:25):
So yeah, send your feedback.
We're totally open to ways tobring the community together.
Um, new activations too.
It doesn't always have to becentered on some specific like
attribution discussion orbusiness related topic.
Like it is totally okay ifyou're like, oh, I would love to
organize a Dungeons and Dragonsnight, right?
(38:47):
Like, great.
I also know a guy for that.
Um, you know, you want to do apoker night virtually, cool.
Like, you know, it's fine.
Like we want the community tocome together and shared
interests and meet each otherbecause at the end of the day,
we're all actual people thathave other uh passions that
aren't just marking apps.
Michael Hartmann (39:07):
So yeah, I mean, I just like I'm glad you
say that because like even it'sfunny because I was thinking
like that's your attitude oflike always bring the feedback
is kind of the one I take, evenprofessional.
Like I used to get really diffoffensive, offended or uh
defensive about feedback becauseI kind of took it personally,
and then I like at some pointthe switch went over and I was
like, no, bring it all.
(39:28):
Like I want it all, and I thinkit there's a lot of value in
that because it's you know,sometimes if you if you don't do
that, right, great ideas don'tcome your way and then you miss
out.
Mike Rizzo (39:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I I have to say, um just likefrom a professional development
standpoint, right?
Um when feedback comes inone-offs, it does feel very
personal.
Yeah.
But when you open it up and youand you open yourself up to
just saying, hey, no, no, no,just like let it all come, you
(40:02):
now get to start to objectivelyevaluate all of these new
inputs.
Michael Hartmann (40:07):
Yeah.
You look for patterns, right?
Mike Rizzo (40:09):
You look for patterns and similarities, and
all of a sudden, that is thesame thing.
Patterns and similarities.
Um, but you you definitelystart to um not feel as like
personally it's yeah, right.
Um, and and and I think foranyone who's watching or
listening to this and you're ina role, um, you know, doesn't
(40:33):
matter if you're not hosting aconference, right?
You could always get somefeedback and just open yourself
up to it.
Um it'll it it definitely makesa difference.
It took me a while as well,Michael, to get used to that.
Michael Hartmann (40:44):
Yeah.
It's not easy.
It's not easy.
Mike Rizzo (40:48):
Yeah, separating yourself from your work.
Michael Hartmann (40:52):
So maybe maybe we can kind of start to wrap up
here a little bit and go likewhat like I know you guys are
still in the midst of planningfor 2026, but like what are like
what are you most lookingforward to in 2026 and through
the end of this year and kind ofwhere things are going with the
community?
Audrey Harze (41:14):
Well, I I I'm actually there's a few things.
I think um So because MopSapalooza is evolving and it's
not gonna quite be what it was,it actually opens up a lot of
our time and resources to focuson other things.
So I'm actually really excitedabout that.
Because I think Mike and I havehad a lot of like great ideas
that we wanted to execute and wethink would be really great
(41:34):
with the community and for thecommunity.
We just haven't had the time orthe energy or the like mental
capacity to like focus in onthat.
So I'm actually really excitedthat we like as we're going into
planning, we're able to likethink those things through a
little bit more.
Um, you know, one of the thingswe've talked about is maybe
refreshing the website, youknow, like I mentioned earlier,
more of a chapter lean.
(41:55):
Do we revive our ambassadorprogram?
Do we do a mentoring program?
Like there's a lot of differentareas that we want to put more
energy into, especiallycertification.
So I feel like now that we havethe time to do that, I'm really
excited about what's happeningnext in those spaces.
So that's really exciting tome.
Mike Rizzo (42:14):
Yeah, I have to agree.
Um I I'll I'll say things thatmay not actually come to
fruition in 2026, but there's umthere's a the the gist of it is
or the overriding theme is thatit's leaning back into the
community programming itself.
Um so you know, mentorship hasbeen a request for the last five
(42:40):
years.
Yeah.
Um it is just like an event.
Um doing mentorship programs isnot um overly scalable.
And so it will take uh quite abit of effort to you know make
sure that that comes tofruition.
But we we would love to seesomething happen there.
(43:01):
Um the matcha program that weused to have is coming back.
I saw that it ourselves, sowe're excited about that.
Great.
Um, and and that allows you to,for those that don't know what
that is, that allows you toautomatically meet other members
of the community uh withoutreally much effort.
We just automatically tear youup, which is great.
(43:21):
Um, and then I would say I Iwould really love to come back
into our chapter, or sorry, notour chapter, our um always ch
words, chairperson program.
So when we first got startedquite quite a while ago now, it
feels like, yeah, although itreally wasn't that long ago.
Um, we used to run achairperson program where
(43:43):
someone would represent uh acorner of technology, spot, or
keto, part, whatever.
Um, and though that was fun.
Uh they got to sort of you knowcreate discussions around that
topic.
Michael Hartmann (43:55):
They got to be, they got to be we had we had
a state of the union a coupletimes with those people, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (44:00):
Yeah, we're like, what's going on?
What's the change log?
And then you know the poor partperson was like, nothing
changed.
Sorry, sorry, sales people.
Um, but I would love to seethat come back.
And I and I think one of theways I'd like to see it come
back is to give it even morelove, right?
(44:20):
Like, let's get some people onlike our video feeds, like
showing us how to do somethingcool inside of these tools,
right?
Like, let's get a little bitmore hands-on and not just you
know, meeting and talking aboutthe tool, but let's let's
actually learn how to use it.
Um, and so I kind of want toreinvigorate stuff like that to
bring some of that communitylearning back um in ways that
(44:42):
again are a lot more accessiblebecause it's remote first and
it's you know all that kind ofstuff.
So yeah, lots more focus oncreating um net new sources of
data and knowledge uh at thecommunity level.
That's that's kind of what I'mmost excited about.
Michael Hartmann (45:00):
Naomi, any thoughts from you as we wrap up?
Naomi Liu (45:06):
Um I I feel like this is not the end of Mopsa
Palooza.
It's just uh pause for rightnow, right?
I think that it's just a it'sjust a temporary pause to
regroup, take some time tofigure out, okay, what is the
next iteration of communitygathering look like and coming
(45:32):
back bigger, stronger, morewell-funded, resourced, you
know, not spending a milliondollars when we don't have a
million made a million dollars,right?
Um, I think it's just a pauseright now.
So I'm not really trying to saysomething that seems so final.
Yeah.
It's just that these are thethings we learned in the last
three years, and we're gonnatake that and apply that for
(45:55):
something better.
Mike Rizzo (45:57):
When TBD, but maybe the Europeans are begging me to
go to Europe.
I know that from year one, EuroDisney.
No, mostly Europe.
Naomi Liu (46:09):
You know, your dollar will go farther in Canada or
Texas.
Mike Rizzo (46:14):
Just just an hour ago, I was thinking that too,
Daniel B.
I was like, I get I think weget like 20 or 30 percent more
or something.
Like, I don't even know whatthis darn math is, but maybe
maybe that's a thing.
Michael Hartmann (46:26):
Well, you de I mean, I love I was in New York
last week and it was great, butman, everything's expensive
there.
Mike Rizzo (46:32):
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy.
Everybody's like, why do youkeep doing events in California?
I will tell you the reason why,folks.
One is uh I live here.
No, I'm just kidding.
Michael Hartmann (46:42):
It has nothing to that's a pretty good reason,
though, actually.
Mike Rizzo (46:46):
No, the the the actual reason is I actually flew
to Dallas.
I flew there, and I I checkedout like three events.
We went to dinner, Michael.
Yep, and uh checked out threevenues, and they were they were
double or two and a half X thecost of what ended up coming to
fruition in California inAnaheim here, which is crazy.
(47:06):
Trust me.
Yeah, I know you think theremight be cheaper locations,
other places, but um, I didshop, I promise.
Michael Hartmann (47:14):
They're all expense, they're all expensive,
I think.
At the end of the day, they'reall expensive is the answer.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (47:19):
So Naomi, I think you're right.
It's pause.
Yeah.
Naomi Liu (47:23):
We'll bring last year for now, not see you yeah
later.
Michael Hartmann (47:28):
It's it's it's a it's a not now, it's not a
no, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (47:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But um keep an eye on ourchannels.
We have uh we're gonna do kindof a look back.
Um thank goodness for AI.
I am gonna synthesize a bunchof data over the last three
years and share sort of whatwere the top trends that we saw,
(47:53):
the top sessions, yeah.
Um, celebrate some of thosefolks that had some of those top
performing sessions.
Um, so if you were a speaker atone of the last three years,
you may end up in that mix.
Um, and then it'll the the ideaof that is one to celebrate the
content and to to share somesort of trends is is the second
part, right?
And for all of us to try toobserve what's been happening
(48:13):
over the last three years as wesee it through the lens of
Mopsapalooza content.
So um that'll come out prettysoon.
And then uh uh I think by thetime this episode airs, we'll be
able to announce all of uh thewinners of the no bullshit demo
contest that we ran live.
Uh nice at Mopsa Palooza thisyear.
So um yeah, we're reallyexcited to to shout that out
(48:37):
too.
So keep an eye on thosechannels.
Michael Hartmann (48:40):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I still have FOMO.
Uh I am glad that it was great.
It I mean, it definitely hashad a uh I've seen amazing
feedback from afar.
So glad it happened.
I'm looking forward to what'snext.
So um I don't know where elseto leave it.
So with that, we'll wrap it up.
But thanks to you all for doingdoing this.
(49:00):
Um it's always fun to geteveryone together.
It's I love this, but um you doit more.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
Well, until next time, byeeverybody.
And uh, as always, if you haveideas for topics or guests or
want to be a guest, reach out toany of us.
We'd be happy to get thisstarted.
Bye, everyone.
Bye.
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