May 26, 2024 • 52 mins
Have you ever stood at the crossroads of fear and faith, feeling the weight of the world on your shoulders? Our brave guest, Lincoln, guides us through these very intersections as he shares his stirring tale of early fatherhood, profound loss, and the rediscovery of grace. His voice, laced with raw emotion, paints a vivid picture of the turning point in his life that reignited his faith, which had weakened over time.
Join us on a voyage through the heart's deepest chambers where familial bonds and faith take center stage. Lincoln's story unfolds like a tapestry woven with threads of anticipation and redemption; revealing the moment he disclosed an unplanned pregnancy to his devout parents and the embrace of grace that followed. The candid chronicle of Lincoln's navigation through relationships, parenting, and the intricate dance of open communication will resonate with many.
Through his experiences, we celebrate the courage it takes to expose our vulnerabilities and the wisdom that emerges from life's trials. So, come, gather 'round, and let's honor our personal narratives that, when shared, serve as beacons of hope and gateways to grace. Your story matters, and this conversation is a tribute to the extraordinary within the ordinary.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Thank you for making ordinary people, extraordinary
things what it is today.
Thank you for sharing.
You are the best way for peopleto hear about ordinary people,
extraordinary things, and aboutfaith and hope and how it
impacts us.
Well, welcome to ordinarypeople, extraordinary things.
I'm here with Lincoln.
(00:22):
Lincoln, thank you for comingon.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to hear part of your story.
Yes, and if people don't knowwho you are, could you give
three words or phrases todescribe yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, the three words that I had kind of picked up on
was integrity, selflessness, and, oddly enough, the one that
can't leave my brain is a littlebit of what I would consider
maybe isolation or loneliness.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I don't know why that can't leave my head, but I feel
like that's something that ILike kind of struggle with.
Yes, yeah like feeling isolatedor lonely.
Yes, okay, like feelingisolated or lonely.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, okay, and I think a lot of times it's
probably me putting myself insome of those situations and not
necessarily reaching out but,being more so introverted and
struggling with that for a longtime growing up.
I saw a counselor when I wasyoung too, because I didn't want
to go to school and just tryingto work through that, and I
(01:31):
think when I get in certainsituations that I don't know how
to handle?
I tend to just pull back, tojust me.
So yeah, it's probably probablywhere that stems from.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, I'm introverted as well, so I can totally see
what you're coming from in thatrespect.
And you say lonely, and I justhad someone on that was saying
that oh, it was someone talkingabout homelessness and the
problems like on Colfax, and shewas saying that their number
(02:02):
one problem is not really drugsor alcohol or prostitution which
, yes, all those things, butloneliness, yeah.
So I that one kind of blew meaway.
so I think that you are notalone and like you know and I
think that's good a reminder forall of us, and I'm sure all of
us feel lonely at times.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, it can be.
It can be hard to reach out,but you've got to find a good
group of people and surroundyourself with them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, well, thanks for being vulnerable with that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well, we're going to talk about something that I I
was so nervous to come up to youand I actually didn't even come
up to you.
I came up to your wife and waslike okay, I don't even know if
I can ask this, but I know,Lincoln, you had a daughter when
you were somewhat young and notmarried, and I knew that.
(02:57):
But what, what really kind ofmoved me and I think we'll get
into this was when your fatherpassed away, and he obviously
passed away when he was prettyyoung and you were at the
funeral, you spoke, and youspoke about this time when you
told them that you were going tohave a baby, and I was just so
moved by that about how I guessmaybe how the interaction went
(03:21):
and it's been, it's been a fewyears now yeah, we just think
six was this past oh my gosh,but I still think about that.
So, so thank you for coming onand talking about something that
I think a lot of families, alot of people have this in their
life.
So thank you for being willingto to share your story.
(03:43):
So I guess the first questionwould be how did you feel when
you found out you were going tohave a baby, and how old were
you?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I was 20 years old 20, okay.
With a girl that I was dating.
At the time, when she told me,there was a lot of, obviously a
lot of emotion going through me,but probably the number one
thing that I felt was fear, andI think that boils to fear of
(04:16):
how, how I'm going to make thiswork, how is not only my parents
going to take it?
But I also sat down and talkedwith her parents.
So having that conversationwith her parents as well and
figuring out this big change inmy life, right, it was very
(04:42):
unknown and I am pretty fearfulof the unknown Figuring out as I
get older.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, and this change right.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, so it was fear was probably the biggest in all
of that, along with trying tofear, was probably my number one
.
My number two was probably numb.
Okay, and I think that ties alittle bit back into the
(05:15):
loneliness side of things, whereI try to just numb myself, to
not feel anything, and I can puta plan together in my head and
say this is how I it's going togo and we're just going to go
through it and I try to buryevery emotion inside of me and
just move along through it.
But the fear was that one washard to bury.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So we already kind of spoke alittle bit about it, but you
grew up in a Christian home,correct?
So what was it like to tellyour parents?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
To tell my parents was interesting, to say the
least.
So a little bit of backstory onthat was.
I got told that my, mygirlfriend, told me the night
before we left on a familyvacation.
Oh my, so we were going to goon a cruise with the family.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Was she coming too?
She was not Okay, no.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So she told me the night before which, trying to
not throw a wrinkle in thefamily vacation, I decided to.
Initially decided to keep it tomyself, and then I realized I
needed to.
I needed some sort of outlet,um.
So I talked to my brother andsister-in-law about it and asked
(06:36):
them to keep it quiet for me,and, but it allowed me to
express it, get it off my chesta little bit, without airing it
all out right there.
Mm-hmm.
So talking to them was afterthe vacation.
Your parents, yes, okay,talking to my parents was after
(07:00):
the vacation, so I had hadenough time to sit down and
think about how I wanted it togo.
Mm-hmm, but as much as Ithought about how I wanted it to
go, I was not ready to havethat conversation, yeah when I
finally sat down anddid talk with them about it.
(07:20):
I asked them to both come intoour living room and we sat down
there and it probably wasn't allthat long that it took me to
say something, but it felt likeforever.
I can vividly remember both ofmy parents sitting there and I
was sitting on the couch justshaking and they were wondering
(07:43):
what was up.
So I finally told them that mygirlfriend was expecting a child
and obviously it was not aplanned thing.
And surprisingly enough,through it all I say surprising.
It's not surprising knowing myparents, but I tend to go to the
(08:04):
worst.
But after I told them that meand my girlfriend at the time
were expecting a child the firstthing mom said to me was she
gave me a big hug and asked if Iwas okay and then asked if the
baby was okay and said, asked ifI was okay and then asked if
(08:27):
the baby was okay and then shetold me she loved me and my my
dad was the one that I was alittle more so worried about.
I I actually had a bag packedon my bed waiting for him to
kick you out kick me out and saythis is is the path you chose,
(08:48):
then go ahead and live that path.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You're not allowed here.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, okay, so telling him, with his response
being that what he?
Said was this doesn't changethe way I feel about you.
I still love you and that wassomething.
(09:14):
I guess I never expected For himto show me that kind of love
after, like you said, growing upin a Christian household and
knowing that I shouldn't bedoing that before marriage.
And then not only did I do thatbut then got a daughter out of
(09:38):
it too.
So I didn't know what to say tohim.
I don't think I said anythingback to him at that point and he
sat there and hugged me for alittle while and said Okay, it's
time to grow up now.
Yeah, it was nerve-wrackingshaking.
(10:02):
I think that probably been twicein my life that I can remember
just sitting, sitting thereshaking, and that was one of
them, and the other one was atmy the hospital with my dad.
Yeah, it was that.
I don't know how to controlthis emotion and I try to numb
everything and I think it justjust comes out.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, it's gonna find its way out.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
One way or another.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, yeah, I just what I love about that story is
is the grace, and I just feellike and someone could say, no,
that's not how Jesus wouldrespond, but that's how I see
him responding is like, I stilllove you, like, and I um just
(10:42):
love that yeah, yeah, that was abig one for me.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mean, as you know, I spoke at my dad's funeral
about that, and a gentleman Ifollowed by the name of Inky
Johnson always says you know,some people don't need you to
preach a sermon, they need youto live your sermon.
And I think that was a bigthing that dad did for me that
day.
It's sad to say I don't think Iever told him that.
(11:09):
You know, I think now you know,he knows Right.
But it was by him doing that andstill accepting not only
accepting me, but loving me andthen helping me through that
process was way more grace thanI ever deserved.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So many people.
I feel like, when circumstanceshit, they would walk away from
God.
How did your relationship withGod change, or did it during
this time?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It definitely changed .
I was probably at a point in mylife where I was not as close
with him as I had been as thetypical church-going kid since I
can remember, you know we werealways forced every morning wake
up, go to Sunday or everytypical church-going kid since I
can remember you know.
We were always forced everymorning to wake up, go to Sunday
, or every Sunday morning towake up, go to Sunday school, go
to church, do all that.
(12:11):
So when I turned 18 and got alittle more freedom and Mom and
Dad weren't bugging me to hey,are you going to be at church?
And I probably took advantageof that a little bit and my
relationship with the Lorddefinitely dwindled during that.
In that dark and lonely time forme.
(12:34):
It definitely drew me back tohim in thinking that if I looked
back on my life, he had alwaysbeen there through the hard
stuff.
Now it was all the stuff priorto that was not as hard as
having a child at 20 years old,but he had been there with me
(12:57):
through it all and I could lookback now being through it and
saw his hand in things as mylife progressed.
So I figured he's bound to dothe same, and so trying to grow
my faith in that a little bitmore too, and trusting in that
(13:21):
and honestly not knowing whereelse to turn, which is I don't
know if that's a good or a badanswer, but there was a part of
me that was like I got nothingleft.
So we're going to lean on youeven more and see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, so it kind of changed your relationship as in
grew it, because you were kindof having to rely on God.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, rely on Him providing for me, for me and my
daughter, for the relationshipbetween me and my daughter and
her mom and my daughter, for therelationship between me, my
daughter and her mom, therelationship between me, my
parents and her parents, anddown to.
You know I was working apart-time job at the time, so
(14:14):
it's in family friends whooffered me a far better job.
That has helped me tremendouslyin my career.
He he had his way, or the Lordhad his way of putting his hand
in at certain times.
Like I said, I could see thatas I was going through it and I
can see it even more now beingthrough it.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
All the little pieces that he played and the puzzle
he put together there.
It definitely drew me back intomy relationship with him a lot
more.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I want to be respectful of Raelynn, your
daughter, and her mom, but didit ever come up as far as
abortion, adoption, becausethese are definitely things that
you can choose right.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Definitely things that you can choose right.
So thankfully, both she grew upin a.
My daughter's mom grew up in asomewhat religious household,
but her and I were very.
Abortion is off the table.
That was never a thought forher or I.
We X'd that one right away.
(15:27):
My daughter's mom entertainedthe idea a little bit initially
of adoption, which was somethingthat I didn't entertain, and
this was some of the back andforth that we had as we were
trying to work through this.
All Right.
And I do understand you know,she wanted to give our daughter
(15:49):
the best life and the bestrunway for success in all of
this, because she kept tellingme she doesn't know how we're
going to make this work.
And she asked me at one pointwhen I said I don't want to go
the adoption route.
She said, well, how are yougoing to make it work?
And I said I can't tell youthat I go the adoption route.
She said, well, how?
Are you gonna make it?
work and I said I can't tell youthat that's gonna be something
(16:11):
that I have to figure out andlean into the Lord more and see
what's gonna open up.
But I personally could not livewith myself knowing that I had a
child out there and it was justnot a good time for me, mm-hmm
wasn't?
I was not willing to sacrificemy daughter for poor timing on
(16:33):
my behalf and it really tookhaving that conversation with
her mom and it's probably a dayor two later that she kind of
came around and said, okay, well, let's, let's give it a try
then and see what we can do andmake it work.
But yeah, the abortion wasnever on the table for us.
(16:55):
Adoption was a little bit forher, it was not for me in any of
that.
But we had other avenues too ofactually my brother and
sister-in-law when I told themthat night before our cruise
that was one of their questionsthey wanted to make sure that we
were not going the abortionroute and they actually offered
(17:18):
to raise her partially, raiseher help wherever they could too
.
So that was once again anotheroption that we briefly discussed
but it was not.
once again, I could not livewith myself knowing that I chose
(17:39):
just a what seemed at the timeas an inconvenience over my
daughter's life.
Sure so.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, and you two you and her mom decided not to
marry, correct, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So then you have a lot of figuring things out
between right, yes, so we weretogether for about I can't
remember how long it was intotal, and it was about a month,
raylan was about a month or twoold when it was finally we
(18:17):
split and went our separate ways.
Her and I were good friends tothis day.
Actually, all of us are.
She'll text my wife now and weall just were at Raylan's
parent-teacher conferences.
Everybody's super nice, kind,civil.
It truly has been a blessing,the relationship that we all can
have.
But my daughter's mom and I didnot work in that regard, so we
(18:41):
decided to end that sayingRaylan should not be wondering
if mom and dad are together ornot.
It was easier, just to make itclear cut.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
She'll know us as being together or she'll know us
as not being together yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it was in both of our best interests to not be,
and do you have any advice forsomeone, Because maybe it's kind
of your situation, but there'sa lot of divorce as well, where
now we're trying to parent twodifferent ways.
Do you have any good thoughtson like hey, this has worked
(19:21):
really well or I reallyrecommend this for someone who's
maybe struggling with this orthey know they're going to start
going into this phase of theirlife?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The biggest thing that we came to an agreeance on
was if we focus on ourselves,this is going to be really hard,
and if we focus on Raelynn,it's going to be very easy.
Her and I both came to theagreement that we're putting
ourselves aside and focusing onher.
The end goal of all of this isto make sure she is happy,
(19:52):
healthy, successful, loves theLord, has good people setting
good examples in her life.
All of this.
And that, I think, is a big oneand has carried us far because
(20:13):
it is tough.
She parents a little bitdifferent than I do, sure, and
you know when she comes backfrom mom's house we run our
house a little bit differentthan mom runs hers.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Right, that's to be expected, right.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, there is some of that.
So I think that would be mybiggest, probably my number one,
and my biggest would be if youfocus on the child, it should be
easy for everybody.
And then second would beprobably just to pick your
battles and all of that.
I know that there are battlesthat I did not pick with her mom
, and I'm sure she has felt thesame way about me in certain
(20:51):
regards.
But once again it leads backinto number one that it's not
about her and I.
It's about Raelynn.
So if you can keep her in theforefront of all of this, I
think it'll set everybody up forsuccess in that better.
It's when we get our ownfeelings and emotions tied into
it that I think it complicatesthings.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But, and I will preface all of that, too with.
Once again, I do have a goodrelationship with her mom.
It had its rocky points when Istarted dating my now wife.
When I started dating my nowwife and initially when we split
up, there was some very, verytrying times for us.
(21:35):
But I had to keep remindingmyself that I lean into the Lord
, that he's got a plan for it,and for me and for her, and that
we just need to keep her as thecenter of our focus and I.
That's not a.
It's not a battle.
I want to, I want to fight.
(21:57):
It's the old.
You know the old saying wouldyou rather be right or would you
rather be happy?
I would rather be happy andhave my daughter be happy than
for me to win an argument withher mom at any point.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That's so good, so good.
Thank you for sharing that.
And some of those things arelike, yeah, it's easier said
than done.
Right, but to put that intopractice, yeah, yeah, it's
something I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I still find myself to this day having to work on it
a little bit and talk with talkwith my wife or talk with a
buddy of mine or something andsay, hey, can you gut check me
on this and tell me if I'moverreacting or my feelings are
valid, but I shouldn't doanything about it.
So having some outlets for thattoo has been good for me to let
me bounce some ideas off ofpeople to make sure I'm not just
(22:49):
getting too emotionally tiedinto it Sure.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
No, that's so good, thank you.
And you brought up your, yourwife Diane.
Yes.
And so what is it like to kindof start dating someone and you
have a child and you're you know, know you're co-parenting with
Raelynn's mom.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It was, like I said, very interesting at first.
I tried to be very, verycautious of my daughter at first
.
She was young enough that shewould not have.
At this point, I think when Istarted dating my now wife, she
was Raelynn, was, say, around ayear.
(23:37):
Oh, okay.
And I didn't want to startdating this girl and immediately
bring my daughter into it.
I can remember when I firststarted talking with my wife.
It was one of the second timeswe were out and I had brought up
(24:02):
that I had a child Because mychild's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You don't want it to be like 10th date surprise
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
If you're going to go , go now and just keep this
easier.
So it took her.
I don't want to say comingaround to it, I just think it
was some thought on her behalf.
Right.
Because not only now is sheentering into a step-parent role
right off the bat, but now sheknows too that my daughter's mom
(24:38):
is going to be truly probablyin our lives forever.
Right, so that was somethingthat she was going to have to
navigate as well, right, but itwas once we kind of got past
that things were good it was.
It was hard in the sense of Ialways described it as I was
living two different lives.
(24:58):
The times where I had mydaughter, it was me and my
daughter and and our family, orjust just her and I.
The times I didn't have mydaughter, I typically spent with
, with Diane, and it it took ahonestly took a toll on me
mentally trying to balance bothof those because I was trying to
(25:19):
keep them separate for so long.
Hmm, to make sure that once Iintroduced, I didn't want to
introduce Raelynn to Diane untilI was 99.9% sure she was the
one and the only thing thatwould have changed, that is, if,
for whatever reason, she didn'tget along with my daughter,
yeah, or had a change of heartand said she didn't want to step
(25:43):
into this role, whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So it took a little while.
I think she had seen mydaughter a couple times, but we
didn't really start and bringher around.
For I want to say it was a yearor so of us dating because I
was trying to be cautious of mydaughter but also, in that same
regard, be respectful of her mom.
And.
(26:07):
I could imagine and it since hashappened right where on the
mom's side, a male figure hasstepped into the role, Right and
for as ready as you think youare for that?
I don't think you have thepower to have somebody else act
in your place in some regards.
I mean, nobody will ever takethe place of mom and dad, but
(26:32):
they're playing those roles forthe times that you're at at her
house or at my house.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So I just tried to be very respectful of her mom in
that regard and of Raelynn,trying to shelter her a little
bit from that.
So it took a little while for meto introduce her Raelynn to
Diane.
But once we did, I mean theyclicked and they have a great
(27:01):
relationship now.
So it's fantastic.
I was glad I went slow with allof that, but it was definitely
tough, and I will say too, Ithink from the male's point of
(27:21):
view.
I don't want to say that it waseasier on my behalf, but I
think there's a lot more womenout there who want to have kids
and who can step into that roleeasier than men stepping into
that role.
I think that is something thatI have seen throughout the years
(27:43):
in all of this.
Her mom has fought that a timeor two with with guys when she
says, oh well, I've got a kid,and they tend to back away at
that point and so I I feel, veryblessed and very fortunate for,
once again, how how the Lordplaced Diane in my life at that
right time and how she steppedinto this role of being a
(28:08):
stepmom and co-parenting withwith Raylan and me and her mom.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So yeah, it's a lot of facets.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's, you know, a lot of moving pieces and yeah yeah,
there's, like I said, as muchas you think you can be prepared
for that.
I mean there's new stuff allthe time.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Between school and friends and sports.
And you know my daughter'sgetting older now, so as she
approaches teenage years, trulyI'm going to have to rely on my
daughter's mom and my wife tohelp through that, because I was
never a teenage girl.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I don't know how that's going to go.
I think our children, our oldestones, are about the same age.
Yes, yeah, is Ray Lynn 10, 11?
Okay, david's 10 too, and whatI think she?
I think they might even be justa few days apart.
Now that I'm thinking about it,it doesn't really matter, but
they, they're right around thesame age and yeah, there's just
(29:10):
they're.
They're changing so much and,yeah, so much going on.
And I didn't plan on saying this, but I just felt like I think
we both took a kind of a classon on marriage and families and
everything, and and in this dayof age, you know, it's like why
does God put these things intoplace?
(29:32):
Why would he do all this?
And it's because he knows howwe work, and not that he hasn't,
like, brought you through withRay Lynn and everything.
But there's a lot of extrasteps maybe that make it a
little bit, maybe a little bitmore challenging than if you
(29:52):
know, and not that all thingsaren't challenging.
So maybe I should just cut thatout.
But you know, I was justthinking, like we're already
about talking to, like our kidsabout you know sex and you know
being married and you know sexand you know being married and
one you know, and it's just Ithink that God knows that, like
(30:14):
I love you and I have, like Ilove you and we are gonna get
through this, but there thereare some extra steps now because
, because of that, is that safeto say, yes, right, am I?
Am I being totally out ofbounds?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
okay, and I I think that's something that every,
every parent at some point willface mm-hmm or, in my eyes,
should face it's hardconversations with your kids,
mm-hmm.
I don't remember where but whenI was reviewing for this I I
wrote that in my eyes shouldface is hard conversations with
your kids I don't remember where, but when I was reviewing for
(30:53):
this I wrote that down somewhereof get comfortable with having
those hard conversations.
I had a lot of conversationswith my dad that I look back on
and I don't think they werenecessarily hard conversations.
I don't know if they werebecause he's a male, I'm a male.
(31:13):
We had that connection,father-son connection.
I remember at one point my momtalking to us.
She talked to us about sex andpornography and other stuff like
that and I remember feelingvery awkward in that because
that wasn't something thatwasn't something that was talked
about Um so I think, likeyou're saying, if we can have
(31:35):
those conversations early, um,obviously, at the appropriate
time, right and in theappropriate way, but to have
some of those hard conversations, because another step that you
will never have to face which Iwill is at a certain point.
I will explain everything toRaelynn about me and her mom.
(31:58):
She has asked a time or two ofwhy we can't live together.
Why is mom doing this now andwe're doing this, and she asked
at an age, that I did not feelwas appropriate for me to truly
give her a good answer.
Um, so I kind of just said well, this is the way things are and
(32:20):
we can talk about it whenyou're older, but that'll
ultimately be a conversationthat I have with her.
Like I said, I'm open book,trying to be clear on all of
this, and I will have to sitdown and tell her what, what
happened with us yeah just soshe could understand.
She can have clarity in that andknow, know the background of it
(32:42):
all.
Right, maybe get some closurein her life in that.
Now, all that to be said.
You know was very, very young.
This is all she's ever known.
But, I think as she's gottenolder and seeing kids whose
parents are together, it'sstirred up some questions in her
.
So I think having thoseconversations is going to be
(33:05):
critical to their growth, butalso how close you want to be
with your kids too, right, rightright and I was just.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I was just thinking of having these conversations
but not having shame, and I hopethat I've never, ever made you
feel that with any words thatI've said today.
But I I can see that beingsomething, because I think
that's something the devilreally uses really well.
For us is shame God doesn'tlove you anymore.
(33:39):
You did something that youweren't supposed to.
I don't want to.
I don't know if I'm saying theright words.
I'm so sorry but like now, nowthere's shame involved and I
think that do you have?
Do you have?
Have you ever felt that, oryeah?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
yes, I think the older that I've gotten, it's,
it's, it's definitely gottenbetter.
Mm-hmm, it was very hardinitially.
We touched on having theconversation with my parents,
with her parents.
One of the hardest things, Ithink too, was bringing her to
(34:19):
church, you know, in a placewhere, I mean, I grew up in this
church and was taught not tohave sex out of wedlock and how
the Lord wants us to live, andthat was something that I didn't
live up to and got a daughterout of.
(34:40):
And then to bring her into thisplace was hard for me and I
anticipated, I think, a lot ofjudgment which caused me to feel
more shame.
In all of that and all that tobe said, I truly cannot remember
a time where anybody evershamed me for doing this.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I'm so glad to hear that and I'm so glad you brought
that up, because I feel likethat was kind of one of my
questions.
You can be like okay, I guessI'll just walk away from faith,
I'll just walk away from church,and I think that that, if I can
be so blunt, is that is not God.
Yes, that is not God, like healways is, like running after
(35:22):
you and like come back like Ilove you and that's why I just,
I just can't get over like howyour dad said that, like sorry
it's tough, he was, he was ahe's a great example of that for
me, and I think that was, andthere's another, I think truly,
(35:43):
that was another thing thatpushed me back into the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right is if I can, if I can get this kind of grace
from a man who my dad didn't.
He didn't know me anything,like I said I was.
We had had that talk before andI fully expected for him to
kick me out.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But for him not only to believe that, but to live.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That made me look at Christ in a whole other way too.
Of man like this is we're allsinners, right, this is a sinful
man that can give me grace.
What kind of grace can I getfrom God, you know?
And what kind of healing can Iget from him?
And, like you said, I love thatanalogy of him just running
(36:25):
after us.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'd be honest and say there's probably times that
I've run the other way and atleast it feels like that, or
don't know what to do.
Or he's just saying come here,and I'm like I'm standing still
because I don't know what to do,but he's still standing there
with his arms open wide waitingfor us.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good, thank you,
standing there with his armsopen wide waiting for us.
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good,thank you, and I'm so glad that
you shared all that with us.
And I feel like there's partsof our lives that we can easily
hide from people, and thenthere's parts that we can't, and
maybe it's better if we can't,you know, because then the light
(37:09):
is there, the shame like thereis.
There's no shame like, and I'mso glad that that that, and I I
guess I'm already praying overRaelynn that she would never
feel shame, you know, andbecause I think that that's it's
just a way to distanceourselves from others and from
God.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, I agree, and I don't think she has ever felt
that way.
At least she's never expressedthat to me or her mom.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Which is good.
Yeah, that's what we want and,like you said, with taking,
there is a certain point of thatright.
Having a child is not somethingpeople can hide addiction and
people can hide doubt orwhatever Right or judgment or
gossip or like.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
there's so many things that you can be like.
Yeah, I'm good at hiding someof those things that I struggle
with, right, right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hiding a child is not one of those things.
So it was something that I onceagain just had to kind of lean
in and say, okay, this is shameor no shame.
This is what it is.
I was able to ask the Lord forstrength and courage and all
that and said if people want tojudge me for me sticking around
(38:30):
for my daughter, then I'm goingto let them do that, but in my
heart I know that was the rightthing to do and I love my
daughter.
I can't imagine life withouther now.
I can't imagine life withouther now.
It was very trying, but it wasone of those things that was
just.
Here we go, let's rip theBand-Aid off and get it out in
(38:55):
the open and say what you wantto say and we'll move on.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, she's lovely.
I just love your daughter.
She's a sweetheart.
Yeah, she is.
What advice would you give toyoung kids today, or to parents
with young kids?
That's kind of a huge question.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Well, I think that's probably what I was talking
about having the hardconversations, just because I
think that is so critical, notonly for kids to see those
conversations and to experiencethem at that age, but I think
it's also such a vital skillgoing forward, having some of
(39:42):
those hard conversations youngand, like you said, not feeling
shame in those conversations,learning how to navigate those
and how to navigate our feelings, and all of that.
I think it also sets a greatexample for the kids too.
Actually, me and my wife, whenwe did premarital counseling,
(40:04):
one of the things they talkedabout was we talked about
fighting in front of the kids.
I was like, oh, that's you know, in my head I'm like that's
something we should never do,and this and that.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And he said well, there is a way to do that, and
it's okay, because then itmodels for your kids how to have
dialogue when there's conflictinvolved and that was something
that just kind of sat heavy withme of okay.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yes, it's not something we should do every day
.
But we're not neither my wife orI are like yellers or big
fighters, so her and I can havea conversation in all of this
and still model that good,respectful behavior for our kids
.
So I think that was a big one.
And then trying to create.
(40:47):
Another thing I've struggledwith throughout my entire life
was just confidence in me,confidence in yourself.
I would love nothing more thanfor my kids to never have issue
with confidence, and I think, asparents, there's such a
responsibility in such power wehold, and speaking that into our
(41:10):
kids and then them leaning intothe, their relationship with
the Lord and him.
Speaking that into them as welland knowing that they are, they
are a child of God.
They are here for a purpose andfor a reason and nothing's
gonna change that.
No, no stumble or fall orhaving a child that 20 years old
(41:34):
is gonna change the fact thatthe Lord loves us, he wants a
relationship with us.
I know who I am in my core andin my soul and and that was
something that truly, when thathappened and I felt like all the
walls were down for me that waswhere I drew back to was what's
(41:57):
in your who?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
God says you are yeah , yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
So I think those would probably be my big two.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Those are so good, wow, so good.
Is there anything else you'dlike to share that you felt like
, hey, I really wanted to saythis, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Making sure my daughter's the number one
priority in all of that hassaved a lot of heartache on my
behalf, her mom's behalf and mydaughter's behalf in a lot of
that regard, Because I thinkpeople take for granted I had a
conversation with the lady whocuts my hair.
(42:39):
This was something that shefound a condom in her son's room
, and she then had thatconversation with him and I said
, man, until you're in that spot.
You don't understand how much itaffects you Between having the
child, which is the biggest, andnow having to provide for the
(43:01):
child in health care, and ifyou're not together, you're
splitting households.
Provide for the child in healthcare, and if you're not
together, you're splittinghouseholds and you know through
at least 18, if not the entiretyof their lives, and that's all
like the simple stuff you know.
Then you throw sports and taxesand relationships that your
kids will then have and you knowall this other stuff into it
(43:23):
that it is.
It is something that is trulymaybe easier to see from an
outsider standpoint.
I just think there's so muchmore that goes on in all of that
.
That's it.
Like I said, that's just.
It's a big focus of mine, justto keep her in the forefront.
(43:45):
I think that will negate a lotof issues going forward.
Hopefully it does, and trulyrelying on the Lord for that my
family stepped up in a huge wayto let me work full time and my
mom could watch Ray Lynn whenshe was young and my
(44:07):
sister-in-law helped watchingher, and I mean it's easy for me
to look back, like I said,going through it now, and find
all the pieces where I was.
God steered me in the right,the right way and definitely
showed that he was there with usthroughout it all, providing
for all of us.
(44:27):
It was something that drew meback closer and it's baffling to
see him move.
We can't always see it whilewe're going through it.
but once you've gone through ityou can look back and see it
pretty clear yeah his goodnessin it.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, yes.
Well, I just appreciate yourstory, I appreciate you being
vulnerable about it and I thinkthere are so many people that
are going through differentsituations of this or you know
me, with having two kids as wellbut I think, no matter where
you are, I think we can learnsomething from your story and
(45:09):
some things that you shared werejust so very good.
But I do wanna say if I saidanything that was rude or came
across as rude, I do apologizeto you or anyone who's listening
.
That is like you used the wrongword and I do apologize for
that, because I think I did notmean to.
But I think sometimes you can'tlike you know, like sometimes a
(45:31):
word comes across and it hitssomeone differently.
You know, like oh, that, thatactually brought this up for me
and I can't, you know, believeyou said that.
So I do want to ask for somesome grace with that.
But as we wrap up, I alwayslove to kind of end with some
questions what is your favoritebible verse or story?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
uh favorite bible verse is.
I got it written down because Iknew I was gonna.
I'm gonna stumble over it,which is sad.
Uh, isaiah 41, 10.
Which is uh, do not fear, for Iam with you, do not be dismayed
, for I am your god.
I will strengthen you and helpyou, I will uphold you with my
righteous hand, and I think thatwas one.
My brother actually had itwritten on his wall growing up
(46:12):
and it was one I kept going backto and I love the positivity in
that.
And as I've gotten older and ourpastor has talked through the
endurance of things, you know,god's not always we like to
paint him as the deliverer ofeverything, and sometimes he
just needs us to endure it.
And in that he says he willstrengthen and help us.
(46:35):
He's not going to take away ourburden, but he will always be
there to help us.
That was a big one of mine.
And then I stumbled across astory too.
It was talking, oddly enough,about Judas the Last Supper and
somebody who had gotten a tattoothat said Judas ate too.
(46:57):
And the overarching theme ofthat story was the Lord knew he
was going to betray him, he wasgoing to walk away from him, yet
he still fed him.
He broke bread together, heshared this last supper.
He washed his feet and that's agrace.
(47:19):
I feel like.
I mean I didn't turn over theLord to be crucified, but I had
steered away from my walk withhim and it was something that I
think he knows everything.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
He knew you would right yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yet he still chose me and chose to have a
relationship with me, and that'ssomething that I like.
I said it's grace that I don'tdeserve.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
That's good.
I don't have any biblical thingto share as far as what I'm
going to say, but I trulybelieve that if Judas had
repented, God would have forgavehim, Because we see that Peter
literally denies Jesus threetimes and that is not okay for
(48:13):
us to ever deny Jesus right, andhe does it three times after
he's told he'll do it threetimes, but he repents and God
forgives him and he does mightythings for the Lord.
And so I don't know I thinkthat's just something that keeps
coming back to me sometimeswhen I hear of Judas is like you
(48:37):
just had to repent, you justhad to come back.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Like he would have taken you back, Like yeah, so I
don't know how that came up, butwhat are you grateful for,
grateful for my family,immediate family and extended
family and a good church to callhome and everybody's happy and
(49:05):
healthy?
I think that's something that Istruggle at times being
positive, and that's somethingthat my wife has been picking at
me for good in things, and youknow I took my kids on a walk
and we went play at the park theother day and all the worries I
had throughout the day seemedto just go away.
You've got a beautiful dayoutside, sunshine and kids are
(49:29):
running and laughing.
I think if I've got that, Ifeel like I'm doing pretty good.
I'm pretty thankful for that.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I have a tendency to be pessimistic too, so that's
actually one of the reasons Ialways have people say this is
it's a good reminder to keepbeing grateful, and this is a
question we started a little bitlater in our podcast, but again
, I think it's a reminder for meand for everyone about kindness
(50:00):
what kindness have you receivedin the last week, or what
kindness did you give?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
What kindness have you received in the last week or
what kindness did you give?
I have a good buddy of minefrom high school.
Him and I have kind of set upsome reoccurring meetings.
That's just him and I touchbase.
He had just gotten married acouple months ago and they're
talking about kids, and so he'slooked at me for a lot of advice
(50:29):
in some of that regard.
He's further along in hiscareer, did more schooling than
I did.
He's got advantages in certainways there that I pick his brain
on.
But, he has been a big player inmy life and he's an eye doctor.
(50:52):
He works with the NationalGuard and then he's serving on a
board or volunteer team for eyedoctors that he's the president
of and, being a newlywed, sohe's got a bunch of stuff going,
but every Thursday he carvesout time for him and I to sit
(51:12):
down and talk oh nice.
So I think that's a good wayfor me to help him out, and then
I think he also helps me out,and I think that's something
that I see as being very kind onhis behalf is him taking the
time to actually sit down and dothat and talk through these
with me and let me pick hisbrain and work through some of
(51:34):
my thoughts with him.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, it's so good.
Yeah, it's been good.
That's awesome.
Well, thank you for being on,thank you for sharing your story
, and I'm praying that it willjust impact those who are
listening Absolutely.
Thank you for being on, thankyou for sharing your story, and
I'm praying that it will justimpact those who are listening.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening toOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things, where your story is Hisglory.
If you found this helpful,please share it with a friend,
find us on social media and giveus a five-star rating on any
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Thank you for making ordinary people, extraordinary
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Thank you for sharing.
You are the best way for peopleto hear about ordinary people,
extraordinary things, and aboutfaith and hope and how it
impacts us.
Well, welcome to ordinarypeople, extraordinary things.
I'm here with Lincoln.
(00:22):
Lincoln, thank you for comingon.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to hear part of your story.
Yes, and if people don't knowwho you are, could you give
three words or phrases todescribe yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, the three words that I had kind of picked up on
was integrity, selflessness, and, oddly enough, the one that
can't leave my brain is a littlebit of what I would consider
maybe isolation or loneliness.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I don't know why that can't leave my head, but I feel
like that's something that ILike kind of struggle with.
Yes, yeah like feeling isolatedor lonely.
Yes, okay, like feelingisolated or lonely.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, okay, and I think a lot of times it's
probably me putting myself insome of those situations and not
necessarily reaching out but,being more so introverted and
struggling with that for a longtime growing up.
I saw a counselor when I wasyoung too, because I didn't want
to go to school and just tryingto work through that, and I
(01:31):
think when I get in certainsituations that I don't know how
to handle?
I tend to just pull back, tojust me.
So yeah, it's probably probablywhere that stems from.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, I'm introverted as well, so I can totally see
what you're coming from in thatrespect.
And you say lonely, and I justhad someone on that was saying
that oh, it was someone talkingabout homelessness and the
problems like on Colfax, and shewas saying that their number
(02:02):
one problem is not really drugsor alcohol or prostitution which
, yes, all those things, butloneliness, yeah.
So I that one kind of blew meaway.
so I think that you are notalone and like you know and I
think that's good a reminder forall of us, and I'm sure all of
us feel lonely at times.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, it can be.
It can be hard to reach out,but you've got to find a good
group of people and surroundyourself with them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, well, thanks for being vulnerable with that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well, we're going to talk about something that I I
was so nervous to come up to youand I actually didn't even come
up to you.
I came up to your wife and waslike okay, I don't even know if
I can ask this, but I know,Lincoln, you had a daughter when
you were somewhat young and notmarried, and I knew that.
(02:57):
But what, what really kind ofmoved me and I think we'll get
into this was when your fatherpassed away, and he obviously
passed away when he was prettyyoung and you were at the
funeral, you spoke, and youspoke about this time when you
told them that you were going tohave a baby, and I was just so
moved by that about how I guessmaybe how the interaction went
(03:21):
and it's been, it's been a fewyears now yeah, we just think
six was this past oh my gosh,but I still think about that.
So, so thank you for coming onand talking about something that
I think a lot of families, alot of people have this in their
life.
So thank you for being willingto to share your story.
(03:43):
So I guess the first questionwould be how did you feel when
you found out you were going tohave a baby, and how old were
you?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I was 20 years old 20, okay.
With a girl that I was dating.
At the time, when she told me,there was a lot of, obviously a
lot of emotion going through me,but probably the number one
thing that I felt was fear, andI think that boils to fear of
(04:16):
how, how I'm going to make thiswork, how is not only my parents
going to take it?
But I also sat down and talkedwith her parents.
So having that conversationwith her parents as well and
figuring out this big change inmy life, right, it was very
(04:42):
unknown and I am pretty fearfulof the unknown Figuring out as I
get older.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, and this change right.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, so it was fear was probably the biggest in all
of that, along with trying tofear, was probably my number one
.
My number two was probably numb.
Okay, and I think that ties alittle bit back into the
(05:15):
loneliness side of things, whereI try to just numb myself, to
not feel anything, and I can puta plan together in my head and
say this is how I it's going togo and we're just going to go
through it and I try to buryevery emotion inside of me and
just move along through it.
But the fear was that one washard to bury.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So we already kind of spoke alittle bit about it, but you
grew up in a Christian home,correct?
So what was it like to tellyour parents?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
To tell my parents was interesting, to say the
least.
So a little bit of backstory onthat was.
I got told that my, mygirlfriend, told me the night
before we left on a familyvacation.
Oh my, so we were going to goon a cruise with the family.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Was she coming too?
She was not Okay, no.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So she told me the night before which, trying to
not throw a wrinkle in thefamily vacation, I decided to.
Initially decided to keep it tomyself, and then I realized I
needed to.
I needed some sort of outlet,um.
So I talked to my brother andsister-in-law about it and asked
(06:36):
them to keep it quiet for me,and, but it allowed me to
express it, get it off my chesta little bit, without airing it
all out right there.
Mm-hmm.
So talking to them was afterthe vacation.
Your parents, yes, okay,talking to my parents was after
(07:00):
the vacation, so I had hadenough time to sit down and
think about how I wanted it togo.
Mm-hmm, but as much as Ithought about how I wanted it to
go, I was not ready to havethat conversation, yeah when I
finally sat down anddid talk with them about it.
(07:20):
I asked them to both come intoour living room and we sat down
there and it probably wasn't allthat long that it took me to
say something, but it felt likeforever.
I can vividly remember both ofmy parents sitting there and I
was sitting on the couch justshaking and they were wondering
(07:43):
what was up.
So I finally told them that mygirlfriend was expecting a child
and obviously it was not aplanned thing.
And surprisingly enough,through it all I say surprising.
It's not surprising knowing myparents, but I tend to go to the
(08:04):
worst.
But after I told them that meand my girlfriend at the time
were expecting a child the firstthing mom said to me was she
gave me a big hug and asked if Iwas okay and then asked if the
baby was okay and said, asked ifI was okay and then asked if
(08:27):
the baby was okay and then shetold me she loved me and my my
dad was the one that I was alittle more so worried about.
I I actually had a bag packedon my bed waiting for him to
kick you out kick me out and saythis is is the path you chose,
(08:48):
then go ahead and live that path.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You're not allowed here.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, okay, so telling him, with his response
being that what he?
Said was this doesn't changethe way I feel about you.
I still love you and that wassomething.
(09:14):
I guess I never expected For himto show me that kind of love
after, like you said, growing upin a Christian household and
knowing that I shouldn't bedoing that before marriage.
And then not only did I do thatbut then got a daughter out of
(09:38):
it too.
So I didn't know what to say tohim.
I don't think I said anythingback to him at that point and he
sat there and hugged me for alittle while and said Okay, it's
time to grow up now.
Yeah, it was nerve-wrackingshaking.
(10:02):
I think that probably been twicein my life that I can remember
just sitting, sitting thereshaking, and that was one of
them, and the other one was atmy the hospital with my dad.
Yeah, it was that.
I don't know how to controlthis emotion and I try to numb
everything and I think it justjust comes out.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, it's gonna find its way out.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
One way or another.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, yeah, I just what I love about that story is
is the grace, and I just feellike and someone could say, no,
that's not how Jesus wouldrespond, but that's how I see
him responding is like, I stilllove you, like, and I um just
(10:42):
love that yeah, yeah, that was abig one for me.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mean, as you know, I spoke at my dad's funeral
about that, and a gentleman Ifollowed by the name of Inky
Johnson always says you know,some people don't need you to
preach a sermon, they need youto live your sermon.
And I think that was a bigthing that dad did for me that
day.
It's sad to say I don't think Iever told him that.
(11:09):
You know, I think now you know,he knows Right.
But it was by him doing that andstill accepting not only
accepting me, but loving me andthen helping me through that
process was way more grace thanI ever deserved.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So many people.
I feel like, when circumstanceshit, they would walk away from
God.
How did your relationship withGod change, or did it during
this time?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It definitely changed .
I was probably at a point in mylife where I was not as close
with him as I had been as thetypical church-going kid since I
can remember, you know we werealways forced every morning wake
up, go to Sunday or everytypical church-going kid since I
can remember you know.
We were always forced everymorning to wake up, go to Sunday
, or every Sunday morning towake up, go to Sunday school, go
to church, do all that.
(12:11):
So when I turned 18 and got alittle more freedom and Mom and
Dad weren't bugging me to hey,are you going to be at church?
And I probably took advantageof that a little bit and my
relationship with the Lorddefinitely dwindled during that.
In that dark and lonely time forme.
(12:34):
It definitely drew me back tohim in thinking that if I looked
back on my life, he had alwaysbeen there through the hard
stuff.
Now it was all the stuff priorto that was not as hard as
having a child at 20 years old,but he had been there with me
(12:57):
through it all and I could lookback now being through it and
saw his hand in things as mylife progressed.
So I figured he's bound to dothe same, and so trying to grow
my faith in that a little bitmore too, and trusting in that
(13:21):
and honestly not knowing whereelse to turn, which is I don't
know if that's a good or a badanswer, but there was a part of
me that was like I got nothingleft.
So we're going to lean on youeven more and see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, so it kind of changed your relationship as in
grew it, because you were kindof having to rely on God.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, rely on Him providing for me, for me and my
daughter, for the relationshipbetween me and my daughter and
her mom and my daughter, for therelationship between me, my
daughter and her mom, therelationship between me, my
parents and her parents, anddown to.
You know I was working apart-time job at the time, so
(14:14):
it's in family friends whooffered me a far better job.
That has helped me tremendouslyin my career.
He he had his way, or the Lordhad his way of putting his hand
in at certain times.
Like I said, I could see thatas I was going through it and I
can see it even more now beingthrough it.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
All the little pieces that he played and the puzzle
he put together there.
It definitely drew me back intomy relationship with him a lot
more.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I want to be respectful of Raelynn, your
daughter, and her mom, but didit ever come up as far as
abortion, adoption, becausethese are definitely things that
you can choose right.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Definitely things that you can choose right.
So thankfully, both she grew upin a.
My daughter's mom grew up in asomewhat religious household,
but her and I were very.
Abortion is off the table.
That was never a thought forher or I.
We X'd that one right away.
(15:27):
My daughter's mom entertainedthe idea a little bit initially
of adoption, which was somethingthat I didn't entertain, and
this was some of the back andforth that we had as we were
trying to work through this.
All Right.
And I do understand you know,she wanted to give our daughter
(15:49):
the best life and the bestrunway for success in all of
this, because she kept tellingme she doesn't know how we're
going to make this work.
And she asked me at one pointwhen I said I don't want to go
the adoption route.
She said, well, how are yougoing to make it work?
And I said I can't tell youthat I go the adoption route.
She said, well, how?
Are you gonna make it?
work and I said I can't tell youthat that's gonna be something
(16:11):
that I have to figure out andlean into the Lord more and see
what's gonna open up.
But I personally could not livewith myself knowing that I had a
child out there and it was justnot a good time for me, mm-hmm
wasn't?
I was not willing to sacrificemy daughter for poor timing on
(16:33):
my behalf and it really tookhaving that conversation with
her mom and it's probably a dayor two later that she kind of
came around and said, okay, well, let's, let's give it a try
then and see what we can do andmake it work.
But yeah, the abortion wasnever on the table for us.
(16:55):
Adoption was a little bit forher, it was not for me in any of
that.
But we had other avenues too ofactually my brother and
sister-in-law when I told themthat night before our cruise
that was one of their questionsthey wanted to make sure that we
were not going the abortionroute and they actually offered
(17:18):
to raise her partially, raiseher help wherever they could too
.
So that was once again anotheroption that we briefly discussed
but it was not.
once again, I could not livewith myself knowing that I chose
(17:39):
just a what seemed at the timeas an inconvenience over my
daughter's life.
Sure so.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, and you two you and her mom decided not to
marry, correct, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So then you have a lot of figuring things out
between right, yes, so we weretogether for about I can't
remember how long it was intotal, and it was about a month,
raylan was about a month or twoold when it was finally we
(18:17):
split and went our separate ways.
Her and I were good friends tothis day.
Actually, all of us are.
She'll text my wife now and weall just were at Raylan's
parent-teacher conferences.
Everybody's super nice, kind,civil.
It truly has been a blessing,the relationship that we all can
have.
But my daughter's mom and I didnot work in that regard, so we
(18:41):
decided to end that sayingRaylan should not be wondering
if mom and dad are together ornot.
It was easier, just to make itclear cut.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
She'll know us as being together or she'll know us
as not being together yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it was in both of our best interests to not be,
and do you have any advice forsomeone, Because maybe it's kind
of your situation, but there'sa lot of divorce as well, where
now we're trying to parent twodifferent ways.
Do you have any good thoughtson like hey, this has worked
(19:21):
really well or I reallyrecommend this for someone who's
maybe struggling with this orthey know they're going to start
going into this phase of theirlife?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The biggest thing that we came to an agreeance on
was if we focus on ourselves,this is going to be really hard,
and if we focus on Raelynn,it's going to be very easy.
Her and I both came to theagreement that we're putting
ourselves aside and focusing onher.
The end goal of all of this isto make sure she is happy,
(19:52):
healthy, successful, loves theLord, has good people setting
good examples in her life.
All of this.
And that, I think, is a big oneand has carried us far because
(20:13):
it is tough.
She parents a little bitdifferent than I do, sure, and
you know when she comes backfrom mom's house we run our
house a little bit differentthan mom runs hers.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Right, that's to be expected, right.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, there is some of that.
So I think that would be mybiggest, probably my number one,
and my biggest would be if youfocus on the child, it should be
easy for everybody.
And then second would beprobably just to pick your
battles and all of that.
I know that there are battlesthat I did not pick with her mom
, and I'm sure she has felt thesame way about me in certain
(20:51):
regards.
But once again it leads backinto number one that it's not
about her and I.
It's about Raelynn.
So if you can keep her in theforefront of all of this, I
think it'll set everybody up forsuccess in that better.
It's when we get our ownfeelings and emotions tied into
it that I think it complicatesthings.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But, and I will preface all of that, too with.
Once again, I do have a goodrelationship with her mom.
It had its rocky points when Istarted dating my now wife.
When I started dating my nowwife and initially when we split
up, there was some very, verytrying times for us.
(21:35):
But I had to keep remindingmyself that I lean into the Lord
, that he's got a plan for it,and for me and for her, and that
we just need to keep her as thecenter of our focus and I.
That's not a.
It's not a battle.
I want to, I want to fight.
(21:57):
It's the old.
You know the old saying wouldyou rather be right or would you
rather be happy?
I would rather be happy andhave my daughter be happy than
for me to win an argument withher mom at any point.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That's so good, so good.
Thank you for sharing that.
And some of those things arelike, yeah, it's easier said
than done.
Right, but to put that intopractice, yeah, yeah, it's
something I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I still find myself to this day having to work on it
a little bit and talk with talkwith my wife or talk with a
buddy of mine or something andsay, hey, can you gut check me
on this and tell me if I'moverreacting or my feelings are
valid, but I shouldn't doanything about it.
So having some outlets for thattoo has been good for me to let
me bounce some ideas off ofpeople to make sure I'm not just
(22:49):
getting too emotionally tiedinto it Sure.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
No, that's so good, thank you.
And you brought up your, yourwife Diane.
Yes.
And so what is it like to kindof start dating someone and you
have a child and you're you know, know you're co-parenting with
Raelynn's mom.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It was, like I said, very interesting at first.
I tried to be very, verycautious of my daughter at first
.
She was young enough that shewould not have.
At this point, I think when Istarted dating my now wife, she
was Raelynn, was, say, around ayear.
(23:37):
Oh, okay.
And I didn't want to startdating this girl and immediately
bring my daughter into it.
I can remember when I firststarted talking with my wife.
It was one of the second timeswe were out and I had brought up
(24:02):
that I had a child Because mychild's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You don't want it to be like 10th date surprise
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
If you're going to go , go now and just keep this
easier.
So it took her.
I don't want to say comingaround to it, I just think it
was some thought on her behalf.
Right.
Because not only now is sheentering into a step-parent role
right off the bat, but now sheknows too that my daughter's mom
(24:38):
is going to be truly probablyin our lives forever.
Right, so that was somethingthat she was going to have to
navigate as well, right, but itwas once we kind of got past
that things were good it was.
It was hard in the sense of Ialways described it as I was
living two different lives.
(24:58):
The times where I had mydaughter, it was me and my
daughter and and our family, orjust just her and I.
The times I didn't have mydaughter, I typically spent with
, with Diane, and it it took ahonestly took a toll on me
mentally trying to balance bothof those because I was trying to
(25:19):
keep them separate for so long.
Hmm, to make sure that once Iintroduced, I didn't want to
introduce Raelynn to Diane untilI was 99.9% sure she was the
one and the only thing thatwould have changed, that is, if,
for whatever reason, she didn'tget along with my daughter,
yeah, or had a change of heartand said she didn't want to step
(25:43):
into this role, whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So it took a little while.
I think she had seen mydaughter a couple times, but we
didn't really start and bringher around.
For I want to say it was a yearor so of us dating because I
was trying to be cautious of mydaughter but also, in that same
regard, be respectful of her mom.
And.
(26:07):
I could imagine and it since hashappened right where on the
mom's side, a male figure hasstepped into the role, Right and
for as ready as you think youare for that?
I don't think you have thepower to have somebody else act
in your place in some regards.
I mean, nobody will ever takethe place of mom and dad, but
(26:32):
they're playing those roles forthe times that you're at at her
house or at my house.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So I just tried to be very respectful of her mom in
that regard and of Raelynn,trying to shelter her a little
bit from that.
So it took a little while for meto introduce her Raelynn to
Diane.
But once we did, I mean theyclicked and they have a great
(27:01):
relationship now.
So it's fantastic.
I was glad I went slow with allof that, but it was definitely
tough, and I will say too, Ithink from the male's point of
(27:21):
view.
I don't want to say that it waseasier on my behalf, but I
think there's a lot more womenout there who want to have kids
and who can step into that roleeasier than men stepping into
that role.
I think that is something thatI have seen throughout the years
(27:43):
in all of this.
Her mom has fought that a timeor two with with guys when she
says, oh well, I've got a kid,and they tend to back away at
that point and so I I feel, veryblessed and very fortunate for,
once again, how how the Lordplaced Diane in my life at that
right time and how she steppedinto this role of being a
(28:08):
stepmom and co-parenting withwith Raylan and me and her mom.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So yeah, it's a lot of facets.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's, you know, a lot of moving pieces and yeah yeah,
there's, like I said, as muchas you think you can be prepared
for that.
I mean there's new stuff allthe time.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Between school and friends and sports.
And you know my daughter'sgetting older now, so as she
approaches teenage years, trulyI'm going to have to rely on my
daughter's mom and my wife tohelp through that, because I was
never a teenage girl.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I don't know how that's going to go.
I think our children, our oldestones, are about the same age.
Yes, yeah, is Ray Lynn 10, 11?
Okay, david's 10 too, and whatI think she?
I think they might even be justa few days apart.
Now that I'm thinking about it,it doesn't really matter, but
they, they're right around thesame age and yeah, there's just
(29:10):
they're.
They're changing so much and,yeah, so much going on.
And I didn't plan on saying this, but I just felt like I think
we both took a kind of a classon on marriage and families and
everything, and and in this dayof age, you know, it's like why
does God put these things intoplace?
(29:32):
Why would he do all this?
And it's because he knows howwe work, and not that he hasn't,
like, brought you through withRay Lynn and everything.
But there's a lot of extrasteps maybe that make it a
little bit, maybe a little bitmore challenging than if you
(29:52):
know, and not that all thingsaren't challenging.
So maybe I should just cut thatout.
But you know, I was justthinking, like we're already
about talking to, like our kidsabout you know sex and you know
being married and you know sexand you know being married and
one you know, and it's just Ithink that God knows that, like
(30:14):
I love you and I have, like Ilove you and we are gonna get
through this, but there thereare some extra steps now because
, because of that, is that safeto say, yes, right, am I?
Am I being totally out ofbounds?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
okay, and I I think that's something that every,
every parent at some point willface mm-hmm or, in my eyes,
should face it's hardconversations with your kids,
mm-hmm.
I don't remember where but whenI was reviewing for this I I
wrote that in my eyes shouldface is hard conversations with
your kids I don't remember where, but when I was reviewing for
(30:53):
this I wrote that down somewhereof get comfortable with having
those hard conversations.
I had a lot of conversationswith my dad that I look back on
and I don't think they werenecessarily hard conversations.
I don't know if they werebecause he's a male, I'm a male.
(31:13):
We had that connection,father-son connection.
I remember at one point my momtalking to us.
She talked to us about sex andpornography and other stuff like
that and I remember feelingvery awkward in that because
that wasn't something thatwasn't something that was talked
about Um so I think, likeyou're saying, if we can have
(31:35):
those conversations early, um,obviously, at the appropriate
time, right and in theappropriate way, but to have
some of those hard conversations, because another step that you
will never have to face which Iwill is at a certain point.
I will explain everything toRaelynn about me and her mom.
(31:58):
She has asked a time or two ofwhy we can't live together.
Why is mom doing this now andwe're doing this, and she asked
at an age, that I did not feelwas appropriate for me to truly
give her a good answer.
Um, so I kind of just said well, this is the way things are and
(32:20):
we can talk about it whenyou're older, but that'll
ultimately be a conversationthat I have with her.
Like I said, I'm open book,trying to be clear on all of
this, and I will have to sitdown and tell her what, what
happened with us yeah just soshe could understand.
She can have clarity in that andknow, know the background of it
(32:42):
all.
Right, maybe get some closurein her life in that.
Now, all that to be said.
You know was very, very young.
This is all she's ever known.
But, I think as she's gottenolder and seeing kids whose
parents are together, it'sstirred up some questions in her
.
So I think having thoseconversations is going to be
(33:05):
critical to their growth, butalso how close you want to be
with your kids too, right, rightright and I was just.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I was just thinking of having these conversations
but not having shame, and I hopethat I've never, ever made you
feel that with any words thatI've said today.
But I I can see that beingsomething, because I think
that's something the devilreally uses really well.
For us is shame God doesn'tlove you anymore.
(33:39):
You did something that youweren't supposed to.
I don't want to.
I don't know if I'm saying theright words.
I'm so sorry but like now, nowthere's shame involved and I
think that do you have?
Do you have?
Have you ever felt that, oryeah?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
yes, I think the older that I've gotten, it's,
it's, it's definitely gottenbetter.
Mm-hmm, it was very hardinitially.
We touched on having theconversation with my parents,
with her parents.
One of the hardest things, Ithink too, was bringing her to
(34:19):
church, you know, in a placewhere, I mean, I grew up in this
church and was taught not tohave sex out of wedlock and how
the Lord wants us to live, andthat was something that I didn't
live up to and got a daughterout of.
(34:40):
And then to bring her into thisplace was hard for me and I
anticipated, I think, a lot ofjudgment which caused me to feel
more shame.
In all of that and all that tobe said, I truly cannot remember
a time where anybody evershamed me for doing this.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I'm so glad to hear that and I'm so glad you brought
that up, because I feel likethat was kind of one of my
questions.
You can be like okay, I guessI'll just walk away from faith,
I'll just walk away from church,and I think that that, if I can
be so blunt, is that is not God.
Yes, that is not God, like healways is, like running after
(35:22):
you and like come back like Ilove you and that's why I just,
I just can't get over like howyour dad said that, like sorry
it's tough, he was, he was ahe's a great example of that for
me, and I think that was, andthere's another, I think truly,
(35:43):
that was another thing thatpushed me back into the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right is if I can, if I can get this kind of grace
from a man who my dad didn't.
He didn't know me anything,like I said I was.
We had had that talk before andI fully expected for him to
kick me out.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But for him not only to believe that, but to live.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That made me look at Christ in a whole other way too.
Of man like this is we're allsinners, right, this is a sinful
man that can give me grace.
What kind of grace can I getfrom God, you know?
And what kind of healing can Iget from him?
And, like you said, I love thatanalogy of him just running
(36:25):
after us.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'd be honest and say there's probably times that
I've run the other way and atleast it feels like that, or
don't know what to do.
Or he's just saying come here,and I'm like I'm standing still
because I don't know what to do,but he's still standing there
with his arms open wide waitingfor us.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good, thank you,
standing there with his armsopen wide waiting for us.
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good,thank you, and I'm so glad that
you shared all that with us.
And I feel like there's partsof our lives that we can easily
hide from people, and thenthere's parts that we can't, and
maybe it's better if we can't,you know, because then the light
(37:09):
is there, the shame like thereis.
There's no shame like, and I'mso glad that that that, and I I
guess I'm already praying overRaelynn that she would never
feel shame, you know, andbecause I think that that's it's
just a way to distanceourselves from others and from
God.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, I agree, and I don't think she has ever felt
that way.
At least she's never expressedthat to me or her mom.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Which is good.
Yeah, that's what we want and,like you said, with taking,
there is a certain point of thatright.
Having a child is not somethingpeople can hide addiction and
people can hide doubt orwhatever Right or judgment or
gossip or like.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
there's so many things that you can be like.
Yeah, I'm good at hiding someof those things that I struggle
with, right, right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hiding a child is not one of those things.
So it was something that I onceagain just had to kind of lean
in and say, okay, this is shameor no shame.
This is what it is.
I was able to ask the Lord forstrength and courage and all
that and said if people want tojudge me for me sticking around
(38:30):
for my daughter, then I'm goingto let them do that, but in my
heart I know that was the rightthing to do and I love my
daughter.
I can't imagine life withouther now.
I can't imagine life withouther now.
It was very trying, but it wasone of those things that was
just.
Here we go, let's rip theBand-Aid off and get it out in
(38:55):
the open and say what you wantto say and we'll move on.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, she's lovely.
I just love your daughter.
She's a sweetheart.
Yeah, she is.
What advice would you give toyoung kids today, or to parents
with young kids?
That's kind of a huge question.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Well, I think that's probably what I was talking
about having the hardconversations, just because I
think that is so critical, notonly for kids to see those
conversations and to experiencethem at that age, but I think
it's also such a vital skillgoing forward, having some of
(39:42):
those hard conversations youngand, like you said, not feeling
shame in those conversations,learning how to navigate those
and how to navigate our feelings, and all of that.
I think it also sets a greatexample for the kids too.
Actually, me and my wife, whenwe did premarital counseling,
(40:04):
one of the things they talkedabout was we talked about
fighting in front of the kids.
I was like, oh, that's you know, in my head I'm like that's
something we should never do,and this and that.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And he said well, there is a way to do that, and
it's okay, because then itmodels for your kids how to have
dialogue when there's conflictinvolved and that was something
that just kind of sat heavy withme of okay.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yes, it's not something we should do every day
.
But we're not neither my wife orI are like yellers or big
fighters, so her and I can havea conversation in all of this
and still model that good,respectful behavior for our kids
.
So I think that was a big one.
And then trying to create.
(40:47):
Another thing I've struggledwith throughout my entire life
was just confidence in me,confidence in yourself.
I would love nothing more thanfor my kids to never have issue
with confidence, and I think, asparents, there's such a
responsibility in such power wehold, and speaking that into our
(41:10):
kids and then them leaning intothe, their relationship with
the Lord and him.
Speaking that into them as welland knowing that they are, they
are a child of God.
They are here for a purpose andfor a reason and nothing's
gonna change that.
No, no stumble or fall orhaving a child that 20 years old
(41:34):
is gonna change the fact thatthe Lord loves us, he wants a
relationship with us.
I know who I am in my core andin my soul and and that was
something that truly, when thathappened and I felt like all the
walls were down for me that waswhere I drew back to was what's
(41:57):
in your who?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
God says you are yeah , yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
So I think those would probably be my big two.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Those are so good, wow, so good.
Is there anything else you'dlike to share that you felt like
, hey, I really wanted to saythis, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Making sure my daughter's the number one
priority in all of that hassaved a lot of heartache on my
behalf, her mom's behalf and mydaughter's behalf in a lot of
that regard, Because I thinkpeople take for granted I had a
conversation with the lady whocuts my hair.
(42:39):
This was something that shefound a condom in her son's room
, and she then had thatconversation with him and I said
, man, until you're in that spot.
You don't understand how much itaffects you Between having the
child, which is the biggest, andnow having to provide for the
(43:01):
child in health care, and ifyou're not together, you're
splitting households.
Provide for the child in healthcare, and if you're not
together, you're splittinghouseholds and you know through
at least 18, if not the entiretyof their lives, and that's all
like the simple stuff you know.
Then you throw sports and taxesand relationships that your
kids will then have and you knowall this other stuff into it
(43:23):
that it is.
It is something that is trulymaybe easier to see from an
outsider standpoint.
I just think there's so muchmore that goes on in all of that
.
That's it.
Like I said, that's just.
It's a big focus of mine, justto keep her in the forefront.
(43:45):
I think that will negate a lotof issues going forward.
Hopefully it does, and trulyrelying on the Lord for that my
family stepped up in a huge wayto let me work full time and my
mom could watch Ray Lynn whenshe was young and my
(44:07):
sister-in-law helped watchingher, and I mean it's easy for me
to look back, like I said,going through it now, and find
all the pieces where I was.
God steered me in the right,the right way and definitely
showed that he was there with usthroughout it all, providing
for all of us.
(44:27):
It was something that drew meback closer and it's baffling to
see him move.
We can't always see it whilewe're going through it.
but once you've gone through ityou can look back and see it
pretty clear yeah his goodnessin it.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, yes.
Well, I just appreciate yourstory, I appreciate you being
vulnerable about it and I thinkthere are so many people that
are going through differentsituations of this or you know
me, with having two kids as wellbut I think, no matter where
you are, I think we can learnsomething from your story and
(45:09):
some things that you shared werejust so very good.
But I do wanna say if I saidanything that was rude or came
across as rude, I do apologizeto you or anyone who's listening
.
That is like you used the wrongword and I do apologize for
that, because I think I did notmean to.
But I think sometimes you can'tlike you know, like sometimes a
(45:31):
word comes across and it hitssomeone differently.
You know, like oh, that, thatactually brought this up for me
and I can't, you know, believeyou said that.
So I do want to ask for somesome grace with that.
But as we wrap up, I alwayslove to kind of end with some
questions what is your favoritebible verse or story?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
uh favorite bible verse is.
I got it written down because Iknew I was gonna.
I'm gonna stumble over it,which is sad.
Uh, isaiah 41, 10.
Which is uh, do not fear, for Iam with you, do not be dismayed
, for I am your god.
I will strengthen you and helpyou, I will uphold you with my
righteous hand, and I think thatwas one.
My brother actually had itwritten on his wall growing up
(46:12):
and it was one I kept going backto and I love the positivity in
that.
And as I've gotten older and ourpastor has talked through the
endurance of things, you know,god's not always we like to
paint him as the deliverer ofeverything, and sometimes he
just needs us to endure it.
And in that he says he willstrengthen and help us.
(46:35):
He's not going to take away ourburden, but he will always be
there to help us.
That was a big one of mine.
And then I stumbled across astory too.
It was talking, oddly enough,about Judas the Last Supper and
somebody who had gotten a tattoothat said Judas ate too.
(46:57):
And the overarching theme ofthat story was the Lord knew he
was going to betray him, he wasgoing to walk away from him, yet
he still fed him.
He broke bread together, heshared this last supper.
He washed his feet and that's agrace.
(47:19):
I feel like.
I mean I didn't turn over theLord to be crucified, but I had
steered away from my walk withhim and it was something that I
think he knows everything.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
He knew you would right yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yet he still chose me and chose to have a
relationship with me, and that'ssomething that I like.
I said it's grace that I don'tdeserve.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
That's good.
I don't have any biblical thingto share as far as what I'm
going to say, but I trulybelieve that if Judas had
repented, God would have forgavehim, Because we see that Peter
literally denies Jesus threetimes and that is not okay for
(48:13):
us to ever deny Jesus right, andhe does it three times after
he's told he'll do it threetimes, but he repents and God
forgives him and he does mightythings for the Lord.
And so I don't know I thinkthat's just something that keeps
coming back to me sometimeswhen I hear of Judas is like you
(48:37):
just had to repent, you justhad to come back.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Like he would have taken you back, Like yeah, so I
don't know how that came up, butwhat are you grateful for,
grateful for my family,immediate family and extended
family and a good church to callhome and everybody's happy and
(49:05):
healthy?
I think that's something that Istruggle at times being
positive, and that's somethingthat my wife has been picking at
me for good in things, and youknow I took my kids on a walk
and we went play at the park theother day and all the worries I
had throughout the day seemedto just go away.
You've got a beautiful dayoutside, sunshine and kids are
(49:29):
running and laughing.
I think if I've got that, Ifeel like I'm doing pretty good.
I'm pretty thankful for that.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I have a tendency to be pessimistic too, so that's
actually one of the reasons Ialways have people say this is
it's a good reminder to keepbeing grateful, and this is a
question we started a little bitlater in our podcast, but again
, I think it's a reminder for meand for everyone about kindness
(50:00):
what kindness have you receivedin the last week, or what
kindness did you give?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
What kindness have you received in the last week or
what kindness did you give?
I have a good buddy of minefrom high school.
Him and I have kind of set upsome reoccurring meetings.
That's just him and I touchbase.
He had just gotten married acouple months ago and they're
talking about kids, and so he'slooked at me for a lot of advice
(50:29):
in some of that regard.
He's further along in hiscareer, did more schooling than
I did.
He's got advantages in certainways there that I pick his brain
on.
But, he has been a big player inmy life and he's an eye doctor.
(50:52):
He works with the NationalGuard and then he's serving on a
board or volunteer team for eyedoctors that he's the president
of and, being a newlywed, sohe's got a bunch of stuff going,
but every Thursday he carvesout time for him and I to sit
(51:12):
down and talk oh nice.
So I think that's a good wayfor me to help him out, and then
I think he also helps me out,and I think that's something
that I see as being very kind onhis behalf is him taking the
time to actually sit down and dothat and talk through these
with me and let me pick hisbrain and work through some of
(51:34):
my thoughts with him.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, it's so good.
Yeah, it's been good.
That's awesome.
Well, thank you for being on,thank you for sharing your story
, and I'm praying that it willjust impact those who are
listening Absolutely.
Thank you for being on, thankyou for sharing your story, and
I'm praying that it will justimpact those who are listening.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening toOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things, where your story is Hisglory.
If you found this helpful,please share it with a friend,
find us on social media and giveus a five-star rating on any
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