September 8, 2024 • 26 mins
After a season of relentless migraines and unsettling numbness, Carrie discovered she had multiple sclerosis (MS). With raw honesty, Carrie talks about her fears and confusion, especially as a single mom with heavy responsibilities, and how she can now say, “I am grateful for the story God has given me.” The critical importance of community support is underscored, from practical help to emotional encouragement, and we delve into how to build meaningful relationships even when it feels daunting.
We also highlight the importance of expressing emotions authentically within a faith community. Through the lens of the Book of Psalms, we talk about how God welcomes a range of human emotions, stressing the importance of not staying stuck in negativity. Carrie shares how the story of Abraham and Isaac has shaped her understanding of faith and obedience, providing a powerful backdrop for our discussion. Her personal testimony serves as an inspiring reminder of God's faithfulness, encouraging listeners to reflect on their lives and deepen their reliance on God.
✨ “I used to be afraid to share my story & my testimony, but then I realized it’s not my story - it’s God’s.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy Bruscher (00:01):
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary
Things.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm your host, nancy Brucher,and I get to talk to ordinary
people just like you about realstories, stories of faith and
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(00:26):
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All right, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend, carrieCarrie.
Thank you for being on.
Carrie Gutierrez (00:42):
Oh, thank you so much, Nancy, for giving me
the opportunity to be here.
Nancy Bruscher (00:45):
Oh, I'm so excited that you are here.
If you don't know Carrie, youshould, and she is just a light,
like truly a light, just alwayssmile and radiating Jesus.
So if you don't know her, youhave to, and if people don't
know you, could you give threewords or phrases to describe
yourself?
Carrie Gutierrez (01:09):
Sure.
So people say that I'mencouraging, which I do hope
that that is true.
I do feel like God has placedthat on my heart to encourage
others and remind them of whothey are in him.
I'm also a very passionateperson, for better or for worse.
I don't do anything halfway soonce I have my mindset on
something.
I can be pretty hard-headedthrough it and and I'm also a
very loyal person.
If you are somebody in my lifethat I care about, I will do
pretty much anything to makesure that you feel loved and
(01:31):
cared for and supported.
Nancy Bruscher (01:33):
See, and that explains why you just radiate
this light and this kindnesswherever you go.
Oh, that's kind of you.
So we are talking about a storythat God's given you, that I
wish he hadn't, but I'm so gladthat you have the bravery to
talk about it.
When did you find out that youhad MS?
Carrie Gutierrez (01:55):
Yeah, I found out a year ago, in August.
Oh, okay, so just a year ago.
Yeah, yes, it's been prettyrecent, though we suspect
symptom-wise I've had it for acouple years.
Before that I had a migrainefor about four days, which I've
had migraines before, so thatpart didn't shock me, but the
duration did seem a little off.
Then I woke up with about aquarter-sized patch of my thigh
(02:18):
that went completely numbBecause it was so small.
I thought, well, that's weird,I'll keep an eye on that.
The next day it seemed a littlebit bigger.
The following day I woke up andfrom my waist down on my left
hand side and my right foot hadgone completely numb.
And so I thought, well, maybenow I should go get this checked
out.
So I went to a couple urgentcares and they all told me you
(02:38):
need to go straight to the ER.
So I did and they said, well,maybe a pinched nerve, we're not
really sure, let's take a look.
So they were just going tooriginally do an MRI of my lower
spine and about five minutesbefore got intervened and the
doctor came in and said I thinkwe should also check out your
brain and see what that lookslike.
And so they did the MRI, andonly because they did the brain
(03:00):
MRI as well did they realizethat there were lesions that
indicated multiple sclerosis, inwhich case, then, they did a
spinal tap and found somethingcalled monoclonal bands, which
also identifies damage happening.
Nancy Bruscher (03:11):
So MS means multiple.
Carrie Gutierrez (03:15):
It's a mouthful, yes.
Multiple sclerosis Okay, yes.
Nancy Bruscher (03:19):
And I feel like it's a word that people are like
oh, I see that that's bad, butwhat does it mean?
Carrie Gutierrez (03:27):
I had the same question when I was diagnosed.
Basically, what it is is itcauses damage, either scarring
damage or inflammation, in threeareas of the body, which is
your optic nerve, your brain andyour spinal cord.
It can happen in all threeareas, just two one.
But it is a chronic, lifelineillness with no cure at this
(03:49):
time.
There are three different types.
So one type is relapsing,remitting, which means that you
have clear, defined periods ofdamage and in between those
periods you either partiallyrecover or fully recover.
Then there's secondary,progressive, which means that
you started with relapsing,remitting, but have now moved on
to just progressing slowly withno clearly defined areas of
(04:10):
damage.
And then primary progressivewould be just from the get-go,
you just kind of seem to godownhill, disability goes up and
there's really no clearlydefined area of where that
damage is occurring.
Nancy Bruscher (04:20):
Okay, and have they been able to pinpoint what
you have?
Carrie Gutierrez (04:25):
So not entirely, we suspect.
With MS, there is no way todiagnose which type you have.
It's really just based onprogression and what they see.
Okay, since I'm so new to myjourney, we don't quite know yet
.
We suspect, thankfully, that Iprobably have relapsing
remitting currently, althoughthere is a possibility that I'm
on the cusp of secondaryprogressive.
(04:46):
But we don't know.
So we're just keeping an eye onMRI and symptom progression.
Nancy Bruscher (04:50):
Okay, yeah.
So at first you needed to knowwhat those words mean.
But what else did you feel?
Carrie Gutierrez (04:58):
I was terrified originally.
I remember being in thehospital for three days and
having a lot of time with myselfand the Lord and thinking, god,
what are you doing?
You know my story.
I'm a single mom.
I work more than four times.
I have three kids who all havedoctor's appointments and school
and activities.
At this point I can barely getout of bed and make it to the
(05:19):
restroom.
How am I supposed to providefor my kids?
How am I supposed to work drive?
So many questions I had in myhead and I just thought, god,
why would you allow this tohappen to me?
But he has been so good and thenover this last year has really
showed me that there is so manyblessings that have come out of
(05:40):
this.
He has taught me what it meansto rely on others, which is
something that before I lived avery isolated life and thought
that was a good thing.
And I'm realizing what ablessing it is to have people in
your life who care about you,who are there for you and not
just for me, but my kids.
They get to watch that and beloved on other people who choose
to have them in their life.
And so over the last year thereare still a lot of
(06:03):
uncertainties with it.
We don't know really what eventhe next day will look like, but
God has been so good andfaithful in that time to put
people in my life to remind methat all of us live with this
uncertainty, right, whether it'sculture or politics.
There are so many thingsuncertain in our life and yet
God knows, god sees.
None of this is a shock to him,and he already knows how we're
(06:25):
going.
None of this is a shock to him,and he already knows how we're
going to make through each oneof these circumstances.
Nancy Bruscher (06:28):
Yeah, that's unbelievable that you would say
that, yeah, you have three kidshigh school to first grade.
Carrie Gutierrez (06:37):
First grade, yes, yeah, I mean young, yeah,
yes.
Nancy Bruscher (06:41):
Yes, oh, wow.
So what does MS have youdealing with every day?
Carrie Gutierrez (06:46):
That's an excellent question.
I joke that there's atwo-year-old driving the car in
my brain and I really don't knowwhat the two-year-old will do
each day.
Some days she throws a tempertantrum and they are hard.
Some days are difficult for meto walk.
Some days I'll get lost justgoing home because my brain
struggles to recognize where I'mat, what's the next step.
And then other days I seemfairly normal, I'll probably
(07:09):
look like I'm functioning well,but there are always baseline
symptoms that I have Nerve pain,I have tremors, tics, vision
troubles, varying weakness in myextremities and just little
things that sometimes you don'tnotice unless you spend a lot of
time with me.
Nancy Bruscher (07:25):
Yeah, like you said, you're going to the zoo
tomorrow.
How do you plan, not knowinghow things are going to be going
, or if you're going to kind ofhave a harder day or have a hard
time focusing?
How does that?
How do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez (07:41):
That is an excellent question and one I am
still learning to do.
What I have learned and amlearning to be more okay with is
that it's okay to not be okay.
So, for example, going to thezoo, I will take preventative
measures and probably use awheelchair.
Which do I have to have awheelchair to walk?
No, but what I have learned isthat if I overexert myself one
(08:04):
day, I may pay for it for thenext four or five days.
So it's a discussion with mykids hey, this is what we're
going to do to try and preventthings from being worse than
they are currently, and my kidshave been really great about
learning that and learning whatdoes it mean to have plans
change?
Right, maybe I wake up tomorrowand I can't even drive.
(08:25):
Well, that's a whole otherstory.
Then we do need to reschedulethat.
Or is there a friend who canmaybe come with us?
Just kind of learning how topivot and be flexible with those
things.
Nancy Bruscher (08:35):
Yeah, how do you ?
You said you had to be in awheelchair.
How do you?
Is that hard, Like emotionallyhard?
Carrie Gutierrez (08:45):
Yes, it's a pride thing for sure, which is
hard for me to admit, but I havelearned that I'm grateful that
I have access to those things tobegin with.
For example, yesterday I had touse a cane for the first time in
a year, which felt hard, butwhat I realized at the end of
the day first time in a year,which felt hard, but what I
realized at the end of the dayis I actually felt better than I
(09:08):
would normally.
And the other thing I realizedis that I'm so worried when
people see me using those.
What will they think of me?
Will they think I'm lesscapable?
Will they think that I'mlacking in some way?
And what I've come to realizeis that's not my identity.
My identity is in the Lord,number one, and he tells me who
I am, and number two, the peoplewho care about me.
(09:31):
They don't care about any ofthat and in fact, they're
excited to see that I can takecare of myself and that I value
myself enough to take thosemeasures.
And so I've learned that it'sokay to do all of those things
and be okay with that.
Nancy Bruscher (09:46):
Yeah, With your three kids.
What is important that they seefrom you as you battle this
disease?
I don't know if that's theright word, but yeah, for sure,
I think.
Carrie Gutierrez (10:01):
For me there are two things I really want
them to know.
Number one every day we do haveto surrender to the Lord
because we don't know what todaybrings and that's true for lots
of people in differentcircumstances.
But he is faithful in thatspace and he does come through.
It may not always be how wepicture it to be or how we
desire it, but he sees such abroader picture than we do that
(10:23):
it really is the best waypossible is his plan.
And number two joy is a choicethat we have to make every day.
Happiness is an emotion thatcomes and goes and depends on
our circumstances, but joy isfirmly rooted in our foundation
in Christ, and every day we needto make that choice, to be
joyful through it.
Nancy Bruscher (10:42):
And this is the part that I honestly that I
struggle so much, sometimes withjoy.
So how, how do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez (10:55):
Well, before I answer that, I want to say a
little caveat.
I do want to honor people whoseMS journey is very difficult.
A lot of people from the get-goare in a wheelchair and begin
to lose I mean, you can loseyour vision, your ability to
swallow, speak.
There's a lot that can happen,and so I want to honor those
really tough stories.
(11:16):
And yet for me it's been such ablessing Like I mentioned
before, I lived a very isolatedlife and so now having community
in my life that they alsoreflect joy back to me and they
allow me to walk through thosereally hard emotions with them,
whether it's grieving a loss ofsomething I used to be able to
(11:37):
do, that I either can't doanymore or have to do
differently, or those days whereit does get in my identity and
I forget that this does notdefine me.
They point me right back to theLord, and so I honestly don't
think that, had I had thisdiagnosis, I honestly don't
think I would have come torealize that community is this
important, and so, because ofthat, this has been such a
(12:00):
blessing to me and my family andcaused so much joy because of
the people in community that hehas put in our lives.
It's really hard not to wake upevery morning and just smile to
think about all these littlethings he's blessed us with.
Nancy Bruscher (12:13):
Wow, what would you say to someone who is
isolated?
Carrie Gutierrez (12:20):
I would say relationships are scary yeah
they are yes and there isuncertainty, and I can't make
any guarantees that that won'tbe the case for you.
But what I have found is therisk.
The benefits outweigh sogreatly the risk of it.
People who are firmly rooted inGod understand that we are
(12:40):
built for community and they dohave such a heart to love one
another, and so if you areisolated or don't have community
, I would definitely encourageyou to find it, and find one
that is firmly rooted in God,because it does have so many
blessings.
People come to me with things Idon't even realize I need before
(13:01):
they hit.
Can I bring you a meal?
Can I take your kids to school,recognizing when I'm tired?
Before I even do?
How can I help you and supportyou in this Everything to just?
Can I help you carry that to?
Somebody just yesterday made mea hot pack for when I have
chest muscle spasms.
That kind of helps with thepain with that.
Just little things like thatthat it's so such a blessing to
(13:26):
be on the receiving end of that.
Nancy Bruscher (13:30):
I can't remember where I've heard it I think
I've heard it several times butthat we're hurt in community and
we're healed in communities.
Carrie Gutierrez (13:38):
That is such a beautiful way to put it and
that would reflect my testimony.
I have been on the hurt endmultiple times and thought well,
that's just how it is.
But that for me, has been thebest way over this last year to
heal, because, while I do firmlybelieve that God is the answer,
I also firmly believe that Godputs people in our lives who
reflect him well, so that whenwe are in times of uncertainty
(14:01):
or do question things, we cancome to them and ask them for
advice, and he works throughthem to reflect back his love
and his strength through them.
And so I do believe that, whileit is risky, it is definitely
worth it.
Nancy Bruscher (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Carrie Gutierrez (14:19):
Are you?
Nancy Bruscher (14:19):
scared.
Carrie Gutierrez (14:22):
I think I have days where I do worry.
I don't know if scared is theword anymore.
Initially I definitely was.
I think now I've come to apoint where I understand that
things will change probably, andthere is a lot of uncertainty
about it.
But, god, in my testimony therehas been other areas of hard
(14:46):
times, uncertainties.
God, I don't think we'll getthrough A, b, c.
I've gone through divorce.
I've gone through financialtroubles, I've gone through a
loss of parents and in thosetimes I remember thinking, god,
there's no way we'll make itthrough this.
But God has proven himself sofaithful that I can look back
and watch as we walk through allthose times and realize if he's
(15:08):
gotten me through all of those,he will also get me through
this, and that's why it's soamazing that we can trust a God
who is quote unquote testable.
You know he says that he isfaithful and he has proven that
to us time and time again.
Nancy Bruscher (15:22):
Yeah, so sometimes going back and
reminding yourself of what he'sdone in the past.
Yes, and so he will do it inthe future.
Carrie Gutierrez (15:31):
Yes, yeah, I mean, we see it in the Bible,
the altars in the wildernessRight and he says very many
times remember remember Right.
Remember where you've been, whatI've brought you through, and
it's true, because he does bringus through so many things.
I'm a firm believer that we allhave stories.
We've all walked through things, yeah, and so I love what
(15:55):
you're doing with the podcast,even because when I hear these
stories of what other people arewalking through, that inspires
me and gives me hope andstrength to walk through my walk
and do it well and honor Godthrough it.
Nancy Bruscher (16:02):
Yes, that's my hope.
Is that not only rememberingour own story and what God's
done, not only the Bible andwhat he's done?
But oh, Carrie is doing thisand she has this joy, you know,
and that helps me to have joy.
So, yes, exactly why we'redoing what we're doing today.
Carrie Gutierrez (16:22):
Yes, well, I'm so grateful that you were
faithful to that call.
Nancy Bruscher (16:26):
Oh, thank you.
What would you say to someonefacing their own uncertainty?
Carrie Gutierrez (16:31):
I would say it is scary, and we do have
uncertainty, all of us, inmultiple areas of our life,
whether it's health,relationships, look at culture
and politics.
There are so much that'suncertain.
We all we have to do is watchthe news for a couple minutes
and there is a lot ofuncertainty out there.
Yeah, and I can't say that Ihave the answers, but I do trust
(16:52):
in a God who does, and hedoesn't always reveal them to me
.
In fact, most times he's smartenough to know.
I don't need to know the answer, but that actually has begun to
bring me great comfort to knowI don't have to be in control
and I don't have to know theanswers, Because in my life, the
times where I have tried to dothings my way, it has always
(17:12):
been harder than the times whereI've just surrendered and said
God, you show me where to gowith this and on the other end,
there's so much fruit throughthat and so many blessings
through that.
Nancy Bruscher (17:23):
Yeah, like I said, I think you're just so
full of joy, like you said, howdo you not get depressed, angry,
blame God.
I think that would be a reallyeasy one, wouldn't it?
I think you might have said itat the beginning, like why, why
does this have to be my story?
I already have this going on.
(17:44):
God, I'm assuming that you gothere sometimes.
Yes, but how do you not getstuck there?
Carrie Gutierrez (17:54):
That is a really great question and you
are right in that there aretimes where I do fall in those
spaces.
What I love about the Bible,especially the book of Psalms,
is it reflects lots of people'sdifferent emotions towards the
Lord Anger, sadness, fear.
There is happiness and joy.
There's lament, and I lovewatching what God does with that
(18:17):
.
God accepts all of thoseemotions and is okay with it.
In fact, he already knows whatwe're feeling, so there's no
need to hide it from him.
But it is important to not staystuck in that.
And again, this is where I'mgoing to go back to that word
community.
It is important to have peoplearound you that you allow into
those spaces of your life sothat they can begin to recognize
when you're are getting stuckin that area and say, hey, it's
(18:40):
okay to be there and feel thatand I'm going to walk alongside
of you with it, but we're notgoing to stay here.
You're not meant to stay here.
We will move forward through itand I will be there with you
and I will keep pointing youback to him through it.
Nancy Bruscher (18:52):
and that's another reason why community is
just so important to have inthese times yeah, yeah, when
people ask how you are, I feellike a lot of times, whenever we
ask people how they are, peoplejust say, fine, yes, do you do
that, or are you a little bitmore real?
Or real with some people, orhow does that work for you?
Carrie Gutierrez (19:14):
I definitely think that's an area that God is
still growing me in, and for along time the first couple
months of my journey with MS myanswer was always fine.
But what I realized is thatdoesn't honor where people are
at in their life.
Because if I'm walking througha tough time and people ask me
(19:35):
how I'm doing and I say fine,but then I ask you how you're
doing, knowing that you're goingthrough something, it puts up
this weird standard of youalmost don't feel okay, saying
that it's not okay.
And it's absolutely okay to sayyou know, I am not okay.
Today Things are rough, whetherit's a relationship, health,
something with your kids, it'sabsolutely okay.
(19:57):
And as Christians we have to bemore okay to say that and to be
real with each other.
So I am kind of learning whatthat looks like.
It's a tough balance between Idon't want to be the depressing
person in the room where peopleare like, oh gosh, I don't want
to ask Carrie, because I knowshe's got a lot going on.
And yet I have learned thatkind of like what you had
(20:17):
referenced to with certainpeople.
I can just give them therealities of everything where
I'm at, because they have seenmy journey long enough to know.
Okay, that does sound hard, andyet Carrie is going to be.
Okay, she is still close withthe Lord.
She will continue to be allright and then with other people
, I do give kind of a moregeneralized answer of you know
(20:38):
things are difficult today andyet I know tomorrow could be
different, or just little thingslike that.
Nancy Bruscher (20:45):
That just kind of give that.
Carrie Gutierrez (20:46):
But that is definitely something that God is
growing me in, that it's okayto say hey.
It's not okay because I wouldwant that from the people I love
to be able to say you know what?
It's not okay because I wouldwant that from the people.
I love to be able to say youknow what it isn't okay and to
hear more.
So I have to reflect that.
Nancy Bruscher (21:00):
well, if that's what I expect from you as well,
right, because if I want to beable to walk alongside you, I
would have to know what I can bepraying for, what I could help
you with.
Like you said, like a chestthing?
Oh, okay, then God puts it onmy heart.
I wasn't the person who madethis.
I'm saying I like it was me,but that the person who knew
(21:20):
something was going on, then Godcould kind of prompt them to
make that heating pad and thingslike that.
Carrie Gutierrez (21:27):
Yes, yes, and the other reason that I am
growing in that space is I'vecome to question why is it hard
for me to say it's not okay andthat goes back to?
It's a pride issue, and God iscontinuing to remind me that's
not who I've called you to be.
I have called you to beencouraging, and you can't do
that if you can't also speakhonestly and open with people.
Nancy Bruscher (21:49):
Yeah, oh, gosh, carrie, this has been so good.
This has been so good.
Carrie Gutierrez (21:56):
Thank you, Nancy.
I'm so grateful for my timewith you.
Nancy Bruscher (21:59):
Well, I love ending with these three
questions.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Carrie Gutierrez (22:04):
My favorite Bible story is the story of
Abraham and Isaac, where he'sleading him up to sacrifice.
I did not grow up in aChristian household, so I was
not familiar with that story,and so the first time I read it,
I remember thinking two things.
Number one wow, abraham, whywould you do that to your son?
And number two if you are aloving God, why would you ask
(22:25):
that of him?
Why would you ask it?
right, yes but after readingthrough the Bible and coming
back to it, I quickly realizedthe answer is simple.
Only a couple chapters before,god has promised Abraham that
through his generations theywould multiply and grow.
So Abraham had enough faith inthat promise to know nothing was
going to happen to Isaac ever.
And when I read the story again, I realized at least what's
(22:46):
documented.
Neither Abraham nor Isaac seemscared of that.
They do.
Isaac does ask about thesacrifice, and all Abraham says
is God will provide, and theyboth seem to go up with the
faith, knowing that I don'tunderstand it right now, but God
does and he will come throughwith his promises, and so that
has been something that is bigin my life.
There are things that come upthat I think, god, I feel like
(23:06):
what you're asking me to do isnot okay, and yet I trust in you
and it it does work out, andit's because I have such a small
understanding of the situation.
Nancy Bruscher (23:16):
That's so good, that's so good.
And I've been reading differentversions and not versions
different people's things onthat, and one thing is is that a
lot of different religions havepracticed sacrificing of
children, and I think this isone way that God ultimately says
I am different than that.
(23:37):
I am different than otherreligions.
I am different than otherquote-unquote gods who would ask
something of you that I don'task?
That?
Right, yes, I love that, yeah,that's so good.
What kindness have you receivedor shown this?
Carrie Gutierrez (23:55):
last week.
Oh gosh, like I had mentionedbefore, so much.
Every day there's a new personwho shows kindness to our family
.
All the time.
People are bringing meals,offering to help out with rides,
you know, offering to pray forus, and which sounds cliche as a
Christian, but prayer is sopowerful, and so I really can't
stress how important and howmuch that means to me that
people are praying for us, whichsounds cliche as a Christian
but prayer is so powerful, andso I really can't stress how
important and how much thatmeans to me that people are
(24:16):
praying for us.
Nancy Bruscher (24:17):
Yeah, what are you grateful for?
Carrie Gutierrez (24:20):
Wow, I am as crazy as it sounds.
I am grateful for the storythat God has given me of MS,
because through it he hasbrought the blessing of
community, which I just can'tstress enough.
How incredible that is to havepeople in your life who walk
alongside of you through it andremind you you aren't alone.
Not only is God through it, butI am here with you and I won't
(24:43):
leave you in these spaces.
And they do the same for mychildren, my children's faith,
because they see that otherpeople, who don't have to love
them by blood, do care aboutthem and do see them and reflect
the Lord well to them.
That brings up their faith andstrengthens it as well, which,
as a mom, that is the biggestblessing that I can see come out
of this.
Nancy Bruscher (25:04):
Wow, yeah.
To say that you are gratefulfor this story is truly
unbelievable.
Carrie Gutierrez (25:11):
That is only God.
That's the only way that'spossible.
Nancy Bruscher (25:15):
It is funny that I got asked a question and it
was what question would you askGod?
And I said why would youpartner with people?
We're so messed up.
But then you hear this storyand you're like, oh, this is why
.
Carrie Gutierrez (25:31):
Yes, and I used to be afraid to tell my
story in my testimony.
But what I came to realize isit's actually not my story, it
is God's, and so it's actuallyan honor to be able to carry
whatever story he has given mebecause he trusts me with it,
and so when you think of it thatway, it kind of changes your
perspective.
Nancy Bruscher (25:49):
Right, right.
Well, Carrie, thanks for beingon.
Thanks for sharing your story.
We will be praying, and I'mpraying that someone who's
listening is just reallyimpacted by this to maybe switch
something in their own lives.
Carrie Gutierrez (26:05):
That would be.
My hope is that through this,they would hear more about who
God is and that he istrustworthy and faithful in
these spaces.
Nancy Bruscher (26:12):
Well, thanks for listening to Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things, where yourstory is his glory.
Thank you for joining OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
I hope that this podcast wasimpactful for you.
I will see you in two weeks fora brand new episode of Faith
and Hope.
Don't forget to give us afive-star rating and write a
review so that others can findOrdinary People, extraordinary
(26:36):
Things.
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary
Things.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm your host, nancy Brucher,and I get to talk to ordinary
people just like you about realstories, stories of faith and
hope, star rating or write areview.
(00:26):
This really helps other peoplefind Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things, but alsoif they see a review or five
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Thank you so much for helpingus out with that.
All right, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend, carrieCarrie.
Thank you for being on.
Carrie Gutierrez (00:42):
Oh, thank you so much, Nancy, for giving me
the opportunity to be here.
Nancy Bruscher (00:45):
Oh, I'm so excited that you are here.
If you don't know Carrie, youshould, and she is just a light,
like truly a light, just alwayssmile and radiating Jesus.
So if you don't know her, youhave to, and if people don't
know you, could you give threewords or phrases to describe
yourself?
Carrie Gutierrez (01:09):
Sure.
So people say that I'mencouraging, which I do hope
that that is true.
I do feel like God has placedthat on my heart to encourage
others and remind them of whothey are in him.
I'm also a very passionateperson, for better or for worse.
I don't do anything halfway soonce I have my mindset on
something.
I can be pretty hard-headedthrough it and and I'm also a
very loyal person.
If you are somebody in my lifethat I care about, I will do
pretty much anything to makesure that you feel loved and
(01:31):
cared for and supported.
Nancy Bruscher (01:33):
See, and that explains why you just radiate
this light and this kindnesswherever you go.
Oh, that's kind of you.
So we are talking about a storythat God's given you, that I
wish he hadn't, but I'm so gladthat you have the bravery to
talk about it.
When did you find out that youhad MS?
Carrie Gutierrez (01:55):
Yeah, I found out a year ago, in August.
Oh, okay, so just a year ago.
Yeah, yes, it's been prettyrecent, though we suspect
symptom-wise I've had it for acouple years.
Before that I had a migrainefor about four days, which I've
had migraines before, so thatpart didn't shock me, but the
duration did seem a little off.
Then I woke up with about aquarter-sized patch of my thigh
(02:18):
that went completely numbBecause it was so small.
I thought, well, that's weird,I'll keep an eye on that.
The next day it seemed a littlebit bigger.
The following day I woke up andfrom my waist down on my left
hand side and my right foot hadgone completely numb.
And so I thought, well, maybenow I should go get this checked
out.
So I went to a couple urgentcares and they all told me you
(02:38):
need to go straight to the ER.
So I did and they said, well,maybe a pinched nerve, we're not
really sure, let's take a look.
So they were just going tooriginally do an MRI of my lower
spine and about five minutesbefore got intervened and the
doctor came in and said I thinkwe should also check out your
brain and see what that lookslike.
And so they did the MRI, andonly because they did the brain
(03:00):
MRI as well did they realizethat there were lesions that
indicated multiple sclerosis, inwhich case, then, they did a
spinal tap and found somethingcalled monoclonal bands, which
also identifies damage happening.
Nancy Bruscher (03:11):
So MS means multiple.
Carrie Gutierrez (03:15):
It's a mouthful, yes.
Multiple sclerosis Okay, yes.
Nancy Bruscher (03:19):
And I feel like it's a word that people are like
oh, I see that that's bad, butwhat does it mean?
Carrie Gutierrez (03:27):
I had the same question when I was diagnosed.
Basically, what it is is itcauses damage, either scarring
damage or inflammation, in threeareas of the body, which is
your optic nerve, your brain andyour spinal cord.
It can happen in all threeareas, just two one.
But it is a chronic, lifelineillness with no cure at this
(03:49):
time.
There are three different types.
So one type is relapsing,remitting, which means that you
have clear, defined periods ofdamage and in between those
periods you either partiallyrecover or fully recover.
Then there's secondary,progressive, which means that
you started with relapsing,remitting, but have now moved on
to just progressing slowly withno clearly defined areas of
(04:10):
damage.
And then primary progressivewould be just from the get-go,
you just kind of seem to godownhill, disability goes up and
there's really no clearlydefined area of where that
damage is occurring.
Nancy Bruscher (04:20):
Okay, and have they been able to pinpoint what
you have?
Carrie Gutierrez (04:25):
So not entirely, we suspect.
With MS, there is no way todiagnose which type you have.
It's really just based onprogression and what they see.
Okay, since I'm so new to myjourney, we don't quite know yet
.
We suspect, thankfully, that Iprobably have relapsing
remitting currently, althoughthere is a possibility that I'm
on the cusp of secondaryprogressive.
(04:46):
But we don't know.
So we're just keeping an eye onMRI and symptom progression.
Nancy Bruscher (04:50):
Okay, yeah.
So at first you needed to knowwhat those words mean.
But what else did you feel?
Carrie Gutierrez (04:58):
I was terrified originally.
I remember being in thehospital for three days and
having a lot of time with myselfand the Lord and thinking, god,
what are you doing?
You know my story.
I'm a single mom.
I work more than four times.
I have three kids who all havedoctor's appointments and school
and activities.
At this point I can barely getout of bed and make it to the
(05:19):
restroom.
How am I supposed to providefor my kids?
How am I supposed to work drive?
So many questions I had in myhead and I just thought, god,
why would you allow this tohappen to me?
But he has been so good and thenover this last year has really
showed me that there is so manyblessings that have come out of
(05:40):
this.
He has taught me what it meansto rely on others, which is
something that before I lived avery isolated life and thought
that was a good thing.
And I'm realizing what ablessing it is to have people in
your life who care about you,who are there for you and not
just for me, but my kids.
They get to watch that and beloved on other people who choose
to have them in their life.
And so over the last year thereare still a lot of
(06:03):
uncertainties with it.
We don't know really what eventhe next day will look like, but
God has been so good andfaithful in that time to put
people in my life to remind methat all of us live with this
uncertainty, right, whether it'sculture or politics.
There are so many thingsuncertain in our life and yet
God knows, god sees.
None of this is a shock to him,and he already knows how we're
(06:25):
going.
None of this is a shock to him,and he already knows how we're
going to make through each oneof these circumstances.
Nancy Bruscher (06:28):
Yeah, that's unbelievable that you would say
that, yeah, you have three kidshigh school to first grade.
Carrie Gutierrez (06:37):
First grade, yes, yeah, I mean young, yeah,
yes.
Nancy Bruscher (06:41):
Yes, oh, wow.
So what does MS have youdealing with every day?
Carrie Gutierrez (06:46):
That's an excellent question.
I joke that there's atwo-year-old driving the car in
my brain and I really don't knowwhat the two-year-old will do
each day.
Some days she throws a tempertantrum and they are hard.
Some days are difficult for meto walk.
Some days I'll get lost justgoing home because my brain
struggles to recognize where I'mat, what's the next step.
And then other days I seemfairly normal, I'll probably
(07:09):
look like I'm functioning well,but there are always baseline
symptoms that I have Nerve pain,I have tremors, tics, vision
troubles, varying weakness in myextremities and just little
things that sometimes you don'tnotice unless you spend a lot of
time with me.
Nancy Bruscher (07:25):
Yeah, like you said, you're going to the zoo
tomorrow.
How do you plan, not knowinghow things are going to be going
, or if you're going to kind ofhave a harder day or have a hard
time focusing?
How does that?
How do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez (07:41):
That is an excellent question and one I am
still learning to do.
What I have learned and amlearning to be more okay with is
that it's okay to not be okay.
So, for example, going to thezoo, I will take preventative
measures and probably use awheelchair.
Which do I have to have awheelchair to walk?
No, but what I have learned isthat if I overexert myself one
(08:04):
day, I may pay for it for thenext four or five days.
So it's a discussion with mykids hey, this is what we're
going to do to try and preventthings from being worse than
they are currently, and my kidshave been really great about
learning that and learning whatdoes it mean to have plans
change?
Right, maybe I wake up tomorrowand I can't even drive.
(08:25):
Well, that's a whole otherstory.
Then we do need to reschedulethat.
Or is there a friend who canmaybe come with us?
Just kind of learning how topivot and be flexible with those
things.
Nancy Bruscher (08:35):
Yeah, how do you ?
You said you had to be in awheelchair.
How do you?
Is that hard, Like emotionallyhard?
Carrie Gutierrez (08:45):
Yes, it's a pride thing for sure, which is
hard for me to admit, but I havelearned that I'm grateful that
I have access to those things tobegin with.
For example, yesterday I had touse a cane for the first time in
a year, which felt hard, butwhat I realized at the end of
the day first time in a year,which felt hard, but what I
realized at the end of the dayis I actually felt better than I
(09:08):
would normally.
And the other thing I realizedis that I'm so worried when
people see me using those.
What will they think of me?
Will they think I'm lesscapable?
Will they think that I'mlacking in some way?
And what I've come to realizeis that's not my identity.
My identity is in the Lord,number one, and he tells me who
I am, and number two, the peoplewho care about me.
(09:31):
They don't care about any ofthat and in fact, they're
excited to see that I can takecare of myself and that I value
myself enough to take thosemeasures.
And so I've learned that it'sokay to do all of those things
and be okay with that.
Nancy Bruscher (09:46):
Yeah, With your three kids.
What is important that they seefrom you as you battle this
disease?
I don't know if that's theright word, but yeah, for sure,
I think.
Carrie Gutierrez (10:01):
For me there are two things I really want
them to know.
Number one every day we do haveto surrender to the Lord
because we don't know what todaybrings and that's true for lots
of people in differentcircumstances.
But he is faithful in thatspace and he does come through.
It may not always be how wepicture it to be or how we
desire it, but he sees such abroader picture than we do that
(10:23):
it really is the best waypossible is his plan.
And number two joy is a choicethat we have to make every day.
Happiness is an emotion thatcomes and goes and depends on
our circumstances, but joy isfirmly rooted in our foundation
in Christ, and every day we needto make that choice, to be
joyful through it.
Nancy Bruscher (10:42):
And this is the part that I honestly that I
struggle so much, sometimes withjoy.
So how, how do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez (10:55):
Well, before I answer that, I want to say a
little caveat.
I do want to honor people whoseMS journey is very difficult.
A lot of people from the get-goare in a wheelchair and begin
to lose I mean, you can loseyour vision, your ability to
swallow, speak.
There's a lot that can happen,and so I want to honor those
really tough stories.
(11:16):
And yet for me it's been such ablessing Like I mentioned
before, I lived a very isolatedlife and so now having community
in my life that they alsoreflect joy back to me and they
allow me to walk through thosereally hard emotions with them,
whether it's grieving a loss ofsomething I used to be able to
(11:37):
do, that I either can't doanymore or have to do
differently, or those days whereit does get in my identity and
I forget that this does notdefine me.
They point me right back to theLord, and so I honestly don't
think that, had I had thisdiagnosis, I honestly don't
think I would have come torealize that community is this
important, and so, because ofthat, this has been such a
(12:00):
blessing to me and my family andcaused so much joy because of
the people in community that hehas put in our lives.
It's really hard not to wake upevery morning and just smile to
think about all these littlethings he's blessed us with.
Nancy Bruscher (12:13):
Wow, what would you say to someone who is
isolated?
Carrie Gutierrez (12:20):
I would say relationships are scary yeah
they are yes and there isuncertainty, and I can't make
any guarantees that that won'tbe the case for you.
But what I have found is therisk.
The benefits outweigh sogreatly the risk of it.
People who are firmly rooted inGod understand that we are
(12:40):
built for community and they dohave such a heart to love one
another, and so if you areisolated or don't have community
, I would definitely encourageyou to find it, and find one
that is firmly rooted in God,because it does have so many
blessings.
People come to me with things Idon't even realize I need before
(13:01):
they hit.
Can I bring you a meal?
Can I take your kids to school,recognizing when I'm tired?
Before I even do?
How can I help you and supportyou in this Everything to just?
Can I help you carry that to?
Somebody just yesterday made mea hot pack for when I have
chest muscle spasms.
That kind of helps with thepain with that.
Just little things like thatthat it's so such a blessing to
(13:26):
be on the receiving end of that.
Nancy Bruscher (13:30):
I can't remember where I've heard it I think
I've heard it several times butthat we're hurt in community and
we're healed in communities.
Carrie Gutierrez (13:38):
That is such a beautiful way to put it and
that would reflect my testimony.
I have been on the hurt endmultiple times and thought well,
that's just how it is.
But that for me, has been thebest way over this last year to
heal, because, while I do firmlybelieve that God is the answer,
I also firmly believe that Godputs people in our lives who
reflect him well, so that whenwe are in times of uncertainty
(14:01):
or do question things, we cancome to them and ask them for
advice, and he works throughthem to reflect back his love
and his strength through them.
And so I do believe that, whileit is risky, it is definitely
worth it.
Nancy Bruscher (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Carrie Gutierrez (14:19):
Are you?
Nancy Bruscher (14:19):
scared.
Carrie Gutierrez (14:22):
I think I have days where I do worry.
I don't know if scared is theword anymore.
Initially I definitely was.
I think now I've come to apoint where I understand that
things will change probably, andthere is a lot of uncertainty
about it.
But, god, in my testimony therehas been other areas of hard
(14:46):
times, uncertainties.
God, I don't think we'll getthrough A, b, c.
I've gone through divorce.
I've gone through financialtroubles, I've gone through a
loss of parents and in thosetimes I remember thinking, god,
there's no way we'll make itthrough this.
But God has proven himself sofaithful that I can look back
and watch as we walk through allthose times and realize if he's
(15:08):
gotten me through all of those,he will also get me through
this, and that's why it's soamazing that we can trust a God
who is quote unquote testable.
You know he says that he isfaithful and he has proven that
to us time and time again.
Nancy Bruscher (15:22):
Yeah, so sometimes going back and
reminding yourself of what he'sdone in the past.
Yes, and so he will do it inthe future.
Carrie Gutierrez (15:31):
Yes, yeah, I mean, we see it in the Bible,
the altars in the wildernessRight and he says very many
times remember remember Right.
Remember where you've been, whatI've brought you through, and
it's true, because he does bringus through so many things.
I'm a firm believer that we allhave stories.
We've all walked through things, yeah, and so I love what
(15:55):
you're doing with the podcast,even because when I hear these
stories of what other people arewalking through, that inspires
me and gives me hope andstrength to walk through my walk
and do it well and honor Godthrough it.
Nancy Bruscher (16:02):
Yes, that's my hope.
Is that not only rememberingour own story and what God's
done, not only the Bible andwhat he's done?
But oh, Carrie is doing thisand she has this joy, you know,
and that helps me to have joy.
So, yes, exactly why we'redoing what we're doing today.
Carrie Gutierrez (16:22):
Yes, well, I'm so grateful that you were
faithful to that call.
Nancy Bruscher (16:26):
Oh, thank you.
What would you say to someonefacing their own uncertainty?
Carrie Gutierrez (16:31):
I would say it is scary, and we do have
uncertainty, all of us, inmultiple areas of our life,
whether it's health,relationships, look at culture
and politics.
There are so much that'suncertain.
We all we have to do is watchthe news for a couple minutes
and there is a lot ofuncertainty out there.
Yeah, and I can't say that Ihave the answers, but I do trust
(16:52):
in a God who does, and hedoesn't always reveal them to me
.
In fact, most times he's smartenough to know.
I don't need to know the answer, but that actually has begun to
bring me great comfort to knowI don't have to be in control
and I don't have to know theanswers, Because in my life, the
times where I have tried to dothings my way, it has always
(17:12):
been harder than the times whereI've just surrendered and said
God, you show me where to gowith this and on the other end,
there's so much fruit throughthat and so many blessings
through that.
Nancy Bruscher (17:23):
Yeah, like I said, I think you're just so
full of joy, like you said, howdo you not get depressed, angry,
blame God.
I think that would be a reallyeasy one, wouldn't it?
I think you might have said itat the beginning, like why, why
does this have to be my story?
I already have this going on.
(17:44):
God, I'm assuming that you gothere sometimes.
Yes, but how do you not getstuck there?
Carrie Gutierrez (17:54):
That is a really great question and you
are right in that there aretimes where I do fall in those
spaces.
What I love about the Bible,especially the book of Psalms,
is it reflects lots of people'sdifferent emotions towards the
Lord Anger, sadness, fear.
There is happiness and joy.
There's lament, and I lovewatching what God does with that
(18:17):
.
God accepts all of thoseemotions and is okay with it.
In fact, he already knows whatwe're feeling, so there's no
need to hide it from him.
But it is important to not staystuck in that.
And again, this is where I'mgoing to go back to that word
community.
It is important to have peoplearound you that you allow into
those spaces of your life sothat they can begin to recognize
when you're are getting stuckin that area and say, hey, it's
(18:40):
okay to be there and feel thatand I'm going to walk alongside
of you with it, but we're notgoing to stay here.
You're not meant to stay here.
We will move forward through itand I will be there with you
and I will keep pointing youback to him through it.
Nancy Bruscher (18:52):
and that's another reason why community is
just so important to have inthese times yeah, yeah, when
people ask how you are, I feellike a lot of times, whenever we
ask people how they are, peoplejust say, fine, yes, do you do
that, or are you a little bitmore real?
Or real with some people, orhow does that work for you?
Carrie Gutierrez (19:14):
I definitely think that's an area that God is
still growing me in, and for along time the first couple
months of my journey with MS myanswer was always fine.
But what I realized is thatdoesn't honor where people are
at in their life.
Because if I'm walking througha tough time and people ask me
(19:35):
how I'm doing and I say fine,but then I ask you how you're
doing, knowing that you're goingthrough something, it puts up
this weird standard of youalmost don't feel okay, saying
that it's not okay.
And it's absolutely okay to sayyou know, I am not okay.
Today Things are rough, whetherit's a relationship, health,
something with your kids, it'sabsolutely okay.
(19:57):
And as Christians we have to bemore okay to say that and to be
real with each other.
So I am kind of learning whatthat looks like.
It's a tough balance between Idon't want to be the depressing
person in the room where peopleare like, oh gosh, I don't want
to ask Carrie, because I knowshe's got a lot going on.
And yet I have learned thatkind of like what you had
(20:17):
referenced to with certainpeople.
I can just give them therealities of everything where
I'm at, because they have seenmy journey long enough to know.
Okay, that does sound hard, andyet Carrie is going to be.
Okay, she is still close withthe Lord.
She will continue to be allright and then with other people
, I do give kind of a moregeneralized answer of you know
(20:38):
things are difficult today andyet I know tomorrow could be
different, or just little thingslike that.
Nancy Bruscher (20:45):
That just kind of give that.
Carrie Gutierrez (20:46):
But that is definitely something that God is
growing me in, that it's okayto say hey.
It's not okay because I wouldwant that from the people I love
to be able to say you know what?
It's not okay because I wouldwant that from the people.
I love to be able to say youknow what it isn't okay and to
hear more.
So I have to reflect that.
Nancy Bruscher (21:00):
well, if that's what I expect from you as well,
right, because if I want to beable to walk alongside you, I
would have to know what I can bepraying for, what I could help
you with.
Like you said, like a chestthing?
Oh, okay, then God puts it onmy heart.
I wasn't the person who madethis.
I'm saying I like it was me,but that the person who knew
(21:20):
something was going on, then Godcould kind of prompt them to
make that heating pad and thingslike that.
Carrie Gutierrez (21:27):
Yes, yes, and the other reason that I am
growing in that space is I'vecome to question why is it hard
for me to say it's not okay andthat goes back to?
It's a pride issue, and God iscontinuing to remind me that's
not who I've called you to be.
I have called you to beencouraging, and you can't do
that if you can't also speakhonestly and open with people.
Nancy Bruscher (21:49):
Yeah, oh, gosh, carrie, this has been so good.
This has been so good.
Carrie Gutierrez (21:56):
Thank you, Nancy.
I'm so grateful for my timewith you.
Nancy Bruscher (21:59):
Well, I love ending with these three
questions.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Carrie Gutierrez (22:04):
My favorite Bible story is the story of
Abraham and Isaac, where he'sleading him up to sacrifice.
I did not grow up in aChristian household, so I was
not familiar with that story,and so the first time I read it,
I remember thinking two things.
Number one wow, abraham, whywould you do that to your son?
And number two if you are aloving God, why would you ask
(22:25):
that of him?
Why would you ask it?
right, yes but after readingthrough the Bible and coming
back to it, I quickly realizedthe answer is simple.
Only a couple chapters before,god has promised Abraham that
through his generations theywould multiply and grow.
So Abraham had enough faith inthat promise to know nothing was
going to happen to Isaac ever.
And when I read the story again, I realized at least what's
(22:46):
documented.
Neither Abraham nor Isaac seemscared of that.
They do.
Isaac does ask about thesacrifice, and all Abraham says
is God will provide, and theyboth seem to go up with the
faith, knowing that I don'tunderstand it right now, but God
does and he will come throughwith his promises, and so that
has been something that is bigin my life.
There are things that come upthat I think, god, I feel like
(23:06):
what you're asking me to do isnot okay, and yet I trust in you
and it it does work out, andit's because I have such a small
understanding of the situation.
Nancy Bruscher (23:16):
That's so good, that's so good.
And I've been reading differentversions and not versions
different people's things onthat, and one thing is is that a
lot of different religions havepracticed sacrificing of
children, and I think this isone way that God ultimately says
I am different than that.
(23:37):
I am different than otherreligions.
I am different than otherquote-unquote gods who would ask
something of you that I don'task?
That?
Right, yes, I love that, yeah,that's so good.
What kindness have you receivedor shown this?
Carrie Gutierrez (23:55):
last week.
Oh gosh, like I had mentionedbefore, so much.
Every day there's a new personwho shows kindness to our family
.
All the time.
People are bringing meals,offering to help out with rides,
you know, offering to pray forus, and which sounds cliche as a
Christian, but prayer is sopowerful, and so I really can't
stress how important and howmuch that means to me that
people are praying for us, whichsounds cliche as a Christian
but prayer is so powerful, andso I really can't stress how
important and how much thatmeans to me that people are
(24:16):
praying for us.
Nancy Bruscher (24:17):
Yeah, what are you grateful for?
Carrie Gutierrez (24:20):
Wow, I am as crazy as it sounds.
I am grateful for the storythat God has given me of MS,
because through it he hasbrought the blessing of
community, which I just can'tstress enough.
How incredible that is to havepeople in your life who walk
alongside of you through it andremind you you aren't alone.
Not only is God through it, butI am here with you and I won't
(24:43):
leave you in these spaces.
And they do the same for mychildren, my children's faith,
because they see that otherpeople, who don't have to love
them by blood, do care aboutthem and do see them and reflect
the Lord well to them.
That brings up their faith andstrengthens it as well, which,
as a mom, that is the biggestblessing that I can see come out
of this.
Nancy Bruscher (25:04):
Wow, yeah.
To say that you are gratefulfor this story is truly
unbelievable.
Carrie Gutierrez (25:11):
That is only God.
That's the only way that'spossible.
Nancy Bruscher (25:15):
It is funny that I got asked a question and it
was what question would you askGod?
And I said why would youpartner with people?
We're so messed up.
But then you hear this storyand you're like, oh, this is why
.
Carrie Gutierrez (25:31):
Yes, and I used to be afraid to tell my
story in my testimony.
But what I came to realize isit's actually not my story, it
is God's, and so it's actuallyan honor to be able to carry
whatever story he has given mebecause he trusts me with it,
and so when you think of it thatway, it kind of changes your
perspective.
Nancy Bruscher (25:49):
Right, right.
Well, Carrie, thanks for beingon.
Thanks for sharing your story.
We will be praying, and I'mpraying that someone who's
listening is just reallyimpacted by this to maybe switch
something in their own lives.
Carrie Gutierrez (26:05):
That would be.
My hope is that through this,they would hear more about who
God is and that he istrustworthy and faithful in
these spaces.
Nancy Bruscher (26:12):
Well, thanks for listening to Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things, where yourstory is his glory.
Thank you for joining OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
I hope that this podcast wasimpactful for you.
I will see you in two weeks fora brand new episode of Faith
and Hope.
Don't forget to give us afive-star rating and write a
review so that others can findOrdinary People, extraordinary
(26:36):
Things.
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