October 9, 2025 • 54 mins
Is your pet silently suffering? Learn to recognize hidden pain in dogs and cats with holistic vet Dr. Randy and expert Dr. Marie Bartling. We reveal why up to 80% of pet behavior changes are due to undiagnosed orthopedic pain. Discover video techniques to spot subtle lameness at home, plus evidence-based supplements that work: Adequan, omega-3s, UC2 collagen, and turmeric for chronic pain management.
This integrative episode explores regenerative medicine options—PRP therapy, shockwave treatment, and joint injections—that reduce chronic pain medication needs in 85-90% of patients. We discuss anti-inflammatory nutrition, gut biome optimization, and physical rehabilitation, including underwater treadmill, laser treatment, and PEMF therapy for arthritis and mobility issues in dogs and cats.
#petpain #petrehabilitation #pethealth #integrativeveterinarian #petnutrition #arthritisinpets #petwellness
Rehabilitation Veterinarians in Your Area
To learn more about rehabilitation for your pet and/or to find a rehabilitation practitioner in your area, you can visit the website for the American Association of Rehabilitation Veterinarians.
https://www.rehabvets.org/
Guest Bio
Dr. Marie Bartling graduated as a veterinarian from Colorado State University in 2005. She has worked in all kinds of practices from Mexico to Alaska and on animals that range from horses, pigs, and goats to dogs and cats. Over the last 10+ years, her practice has evolved into a focused integrative rehabilitation and pain management practice for dogs and cats where she uses joint injection therapy, myofascial care, chiropractic care, acupuncture, and exercise programs in conjunction with medication and surgery to restore the physical health of pets.
Key Takeaways
- Pets often hide their pain, making awareness crucial.
- Behavioral changes in pets often indicate underlying pain.
- Early detection of pain will lead to better management.
- Video recordings of pets can help your veterinarian identify subtle pain signs.
- Arthritis can affect young animals due to genetic factors.
- Nutrition plays a vital role in managing pet pain.
- Rehabilitation can significantly improve a pet's quality of life.
- Integrative medicine approaches often enhance traditional veterinary care.
Chapters
00:00 Unde
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Products and Resources I Recommend
Microbiome Testing
Animal Biome - Gut Microbiome Health Test
Nutrition
K9 Natural
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
What if I told you your pet could be struggling
with pain right now?
And you may not even know it.
Dogs and cats instinctually maskdiscomfort.
Today we're going to talk aboutawareness, testing and
diagnosis, pain management, andrehabilitation and maintenance,
and why recognizing these cuesare so important for the comfort
and happiness with your pet.
(00:30):
Stick with us on this becausethis is an incredible podcast
that we're going to have.
I expand a warm welcome to allof our listeners.
And this is a very significantepisode with my good friend Dr.
Marie Bartling.
Dr.
Marie graduated as aveterinarian from Colorado State
in 2005.
She's worked all kinds ofpractices from Mexico to Alaska
(00:53):
on animals that range fromhorses, pigs, goats to dogs and
cats.
And over the last 10 years, herpractice has evolved into a
focused, integrativerehabilitation and pain
management practice for dogs andcats, where she uses joint
injection therapy, myofascialcare, chiropractic care,
acupuncture, and exerciseprograms in conjunction with
(01:15):
medication and surgery torestore physical health to her
pets.
Hey Marie, did I uh did I catchall that or did I miss anything?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
You know what, Randy?
I hope, I actually hope thatwhat our listeners are saying
right now is like, whoa, that'sa lot.
Yeah.
Because there's so much that wecan do to improve the physical
health of our pets and that weshould be doing for ourselves.
So Randy, you totally got it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Good, good.
So before we get started, I wantto ask a favor.
If you're watching on YouTube,please subscribe to the channel.
Give us a like.
If you're following yourfavorite podcast app, like on
Instagram, it's Dr.
Randy Petvet.
For health and wellness tips,it's drrandypetvet.com.
Marie, tell our listeners yourwebsite because it's so
important.
We'll have it in the notes also.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
I have a website that provides veterinary
education calledhelpspotrun.com.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Thank you.
Perfect.
So um to you know, today, youknow, one of the things that we
wanted to talk about was thatour pets hide this pain.
Um, and so obviously, awarenessis a very important thing.
Uh, talk a little bit about whatthat looks like to you.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So I don't know about you, Randy, but you know,
we see an awful lot of patients,clients that have seen sometimes
two or three veterinarians forweird stuff.
We have a veterinary behavioristin my practice.
So I see all the really weirdstuff.
So it means they come in andthey'll say, okay, he's been
eating the walls, chasing histail, barking at people he
(02:52):
loves, afraid.
He's now afraid of my child.
He's starting to bite at people.
So what's interesting is there'sa study about this.
Actually, Daryl Mullis did astudy on this, and they found
that some in a retrospectivestudy of a bunch of different ER
cases, that up to 80% ofbehavior cases, just acting
(03:13):
weird, relate to animal pain.
And most of those areorthopaedic pain.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
So really, what this ends up looking like is anything
that an animal can be doingthat's strange, anything that
makes them more shy than normal,more protective than normal,
grumpier than normal.
Um, right, just think about howpeople manifest pain, right?
We all have this image in ourhead of what what a grumpy old
(03:42):
man looks like.
Oh, come.
Probably hurts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Probably hurts.
Yeah, I'm I look in the mirrorand I see that guy sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
I'm glad you don't show them to me and your clients
very often.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
No, no, no.
And and as I tell people whenthey come in here, age is not a
disease, so we're good at we'regood at that.
Um, but you know, it'sinteresting that you said that
because one of the things I lovewhen clients come to see me is
um he's not in pain because he'snot limping.
And I know you've probably heardthat a gazillion times.
And I try to explain to themthat, you know, let's look at
(04:19):
the video of him walking, orlet's watch he or she walk in
person and let me be the judgeof that.
And also through our physicalexam, let me be the judge of
that.
Because maybe we might be ableto uncover something that you're
not quite getting.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Oh man, I love what you're saying right now.
So all of my clients take videoat home before they come because
most of the time, dogs andespecially cats will have
changes in how they move thatdon't maybe look like overt
limping, and it's very subtle.
And even veterinarians sometimescan't pick it up, right?
(04:53):
Not you or me, of course.
Um, right, no, but it means thatyou have to see it when the
animal is in the act of whateverhurts in an environment where
they're not distracted byanything else, and they're not
scared and trying to hide it.
Which means that in our clinic,like that's kind of one of the
hardest places to see pain inanimals.
(05:16):
And so what's really the best isthose is those videos.
And when they are doingsomething, going up and down the
stairs, getting in and out ofthe car, and particularly if
there's something hard to do,get video of that, right?
That's that's when we see it.
And um, to your point, most ofthe young animals, it can be so
hard, right?
(05:36):
Because they have great energy,they move fast, even if they're
not moving normally.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Yep.
And can you suggest to ourlisteners on getting those
videos?
I know you have you have alittle kind of routine that you
usually recommend.
Can we we talk about that rightnow?
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Absolutely.
So this one will be for all ofthe horse people in the
audience.
Um, right.
Well, when you have a backgroundin large animals and
specifically horses, we havethis expectation that they are
all athletic.
Uh, they should all be able tocarry a rider and jump over
fences or do it at whatever itis we want them to do, and that
they should like it.
Uh, and so what happens thoughis because horses are designed
(06:17):
in our mind for this purpose andand can be expensive to keep and
feed and maintain, we do regularlameness exams on horses.
And so that is where I developthis idea, this technique.
So it means that what I preferto do is have a stationary
phone.
So ideally, it's not a person,because you know what happens
when the camera's moving.
It's hard.
It's hard to tell.
(06:37):
So if we really want this to gowell, what you do is you get a
tripod or maybe even a shelf,somewhere stable, and put the
phone on it.
Then you're gonna walk the dog,attempt to walk, not run, walk
the dog towards the camera, awayfrom the camera, and then go
around the room in a circle eachdirection.
(06:58):
And what that will do for us asveterinarians is help us pick up
the subtleties, right?
Because an animal that hurts in,say, a right front limb, if
they're going to the right, theyput more weight on that side and
it makes it more obvious.
If they have a neurologicproblem where maybe they don't
100% know where their feet are,that circle will bring that out
every time.
And if we're getting fancy, youdo a big circle that gets into a
(07:20):
smaller circle, because thenyou'll really be able to see
delays in their foot placement.
And so if I was doing it athome, that's what I asked my
clients to do is forward, awayfrom the camera, around in a
circle, kind of spiral into themiddle, and then spiral back
out.
And if they want five stars,because all of my clients are
five stars, right?
(07:41):
Of course, then you want a videoof them watching, watching from
behind the dog going up a set ofstairs, right?
And then from the front of thedog watching them come back down
the stairs.
And as as ideally walk and trot,like when they're running, it's
hard to get it.
So if you need two or threetakes, go for it.
The more video, the better.
unknown (08:02):
Right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Well, you you'll love this uh being the the horse
reference because my wife doesdressage.
So we have a pivot setup.
You know, do you know what thatis?
So so I had a client come theother day and she used it, and
it was amazing because you know,we watched it followed her,
tracked her around with the dog,did all the things that you you
referenced, and it was very,very helpful.
(08:24):
But we don't need to spend thatkind of money to do that.
Uh I think everything youalluded to is perfect.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Well, and the funny part is we now have cameras that
watch pets at home and throwtreats and do all kinds of
things.
So I'm sure there are tons ofpermutations of this.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
Yeah.
No, that's perfect.
You know, and and we talk aboutthis because um let's talk about
why it's so important to catchthis early, because you and I
often don't have that luxury.
Um, many, many times, yoursecond and third opinion, my
second and third opinion.
It's been going on for quite awhile, whatever's going on, and
then we finally get this animal.
(09:00):
Um, let let maybe just a minutetalk about, you know, recognize
this in the young.
And and we, you know, we mayalso allude to the cat situation
there too, because as you know,so many of our cats have OA,
have osteoarthritis, um, butthey don't show it because they
in the wild would get eaten.
So uh they're not gonna show itat home sometimes, too.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yeah.
Well, you're singing my song, sothank you for asking this
question.
It is so near and dear to myheart because I entered
veterinary medicine as a petparent.
I truly didn't know.
Randy, I did not know that younganimals have arthritis, right?
In my mind, it's it's it's veryold thinking.
(09:43):
In my mind, arthritis is an oldperson, horse, dog, cat,
disease.
Here's the crazy part.
It turns out arthritis comesfrom instability, and the most
common cause of jointinstability in animals,
particularly dogs, is what?
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
It's usually genetics.
It's dysplasia.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Exactly.
Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:09):
Genetics.
Genetic hip dysplasia, elbowdysplasia, right, spinal
malformation, right?
You hit it.
And so what does that mean?
Holy moly, what does that mean?
It means that a huge percentageof our patients, like 80% of
them, have not had arthritis asan old animal, but their whole
(10:30):
life, which means that they arecoping with this with a bright
and shiny smile their whole lifeuntil they can't.
And then what happens is theycome to us and it's hard.
It's hard to see them indysfunction.
It's hard to feel like they'refailing, the animals, right?
And so we have now, say, a12-year-old dog, and really
(10:52):
there's a lot of things that wecan and could have done, but at
this stage, it's not going togive us as much for our effort,
and it's gonna cost more.
So we start having thisdiscussion around well, is is it
even worth it?
unknown (11:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
And that is my least favorite conversation.
Oh, yeah.
So my favorite conversation, ifthere is one around arthritis,
is unfortunately is hard to tellan owner that their puppy has
elbow dysplasia, right?
But my favorite is really if wecan get it this early, like what
are some of the things that youdo in your practice for dogs who
are young to middle-aged forarthritis that's that's kind of
(11:29):
special and makes a difference.
What do you use?
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
Well, I, you know, I I start at the beginning of
foundational medicine.
And so I'm working on my myfirst 20 minutes of any
conversation is typically diet,um, because I want all the anti,
I want no inflammation in thisin this animal's body because
that only spurs the painresponse and makes things worse.
(11:52):
And so getting soy, corn, wheat,rice, white potato out of their
diet.
Um, I look at the Chinese umprinciple of thermogenic
properties of food and gettinglamb and veal um and also um
chicken out of their diet.
People don't realize chicken canbe in hot meat helps.
(12:13):
And I go to the conversation ofsupplements.
So that conversation happensbefore we ever get to the other
types of things that you and Ido to help these animals.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
Absolutely.
And the other thing that we wereally do know, right?
There's all these, it's trickybecause then sometimes with the
clients that are reallyinvested, it's like, well, what
really works and what should Ibe doing and how do I make this
perfect?
Gosh, we're never perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
What we do know is the most important thing is that
we don't overfeed them ingeneral, right?
If we can keep their weightdown, and especially if we
already know they havearthritis, right?
It's been proven that a normalweight dog, they did this in
labs, old study, right?
Periodist study, normal weightdogs with hip dysplasia versus
obese dogs, same family with hipdysplasia, those dogs that are
(13:04):
overweight get six times morearthritis.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:08):
And so arthritis is not a certainty.
That's what we need to know.
Some animals get arthritis,people get arthritis in
different places in their body.
Right.
So we need to be thinking aboutholy cow, if we get to these
animals early in their life, wecan help them rebuild their
body, keep their symmetry,maintain their muscle
(13:31):
flexibility and range of motionand all of the things that
reduce friction and createarthritis.
Right.
So, um, so yes, my favoriteconversation is to start helping
with regenerative medicine, withdiet, with rehabilitation in
these patients that are maybe acouple years old.
We know they have a clinicalproblem.
(13:52):
We know that it's worth workingon.
We know we're giving them theirbest quality of life at their
peak performance, right?
Um, so it really is.
There's a sweet spot, and itdoes make that conversation a
little easier for all of us totake.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah.
It's always difficult.
You you mentioned I what Ialways struggle with is staring
at a very overweight client whonow has who is also has a very
young overweight animal andtrying to kind of enforce the
fact that we're looking at thatbody score, that we're we want
to grade your animal, showingthem the body score chart, and
(14:27):
then saying, you know, even thedog longevity study showed that
an animal that is a body scoreof five out of nine can
typically live two to have twoand a half years longer.
So I, you know, I I get them onthat point where it's like, I
want I want this kid to be withyou as long as possible, but not
just longevity, but health span.
(14:48):
We want to make sure thatthey're healthy and they're
feeling good.
So yeah, that that's greatmessage.
Great message.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
Yeah.
I mean, the best news is we knowthat that owner loves this dog
so much.
Exactly.
And so the tricky part then isto reframe those values and say,
okay, what is good, right?
What is good in the span oflongevity and health?
What do we want out of this?
And how can we show love that'snot food?
SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
Yeah.
No, uh, that that's that'sperfect.
That's perfect.
Um, let's move into testing anddiagnosis because I think that's
a really good uh thing to talkabout.
And one of the things that youshared with me, by the way, just
to let you know, this lady iskind of one of my heroes in in
mobility and pain.
So, you know, this is a real,real blessing that we have this
chance to talk.
(15:33):
But one of the things that youshared with me very early, which
I kind of forgot, was that a lotof times even doing gabapentin
before that dog comes into theclinic can help us actually spot
the pain easier or thediscomfort easier than allowing
them to be, you know, superexcited and having this, you
(15:54):
know, this uh fear factor of theclinic and and all of that.
Um, many, many times thatpre-dosing can really help you
and I spot a you know an area ofdiscomfort.
SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
100%.
So it's it's kind ofcounterintuitive for us who are
integrative and kind of holisticminded to want to give a
medication to our patients.
unknown (16:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:15):
So it's difficult for us to accept that.
But here's the thing pain afterit's set in for more than a
couple weeks starts to branchand it's more regional and
sometimes even crosses over thespinal cord.
If it's really intense and it'sbeen there for weeks to months,
something like really inflamedarthritis in a dog that maybe
(16:36):
has cushions, diabetes, baddiet, allergies, extra reasons
to be inflammatory, that patientis gonna hurt everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
It makes it so much harder for us to examine them
and for them to relax when theyhurt everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:51):
And so we evolved as veterinarians this process where
we always sedate for hip x-rays.
Well, that's how I get aroundit.
That's how you people like youand I get around it, right?
Is we do something like, okay,well, let's do a little cocktail
of something that helps relaxthem, like Trozidone, and
something that then takes someof the pain and anxiety away,
(17:12):
like the gabapentin, and evenRimidal if they need it that
day, right?
To get their x-rays done.
Exceptionally helpful in young,fearful patients.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yes, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Um, yeah, because really the reason they don't
want us to touch them or to taketheir x-ray is that they're
afraid that it will hurt becauseit usually does.
One of my favorite patients ofall time, he taught me so much.
His name is Atticus.
Atticus is a pity, and he isrescued by a family who rescues
pities.
(17:44):
They know these dogs, and theybrought him to me, and it was
one of those they said, youknow, he really wants to
socialize you with you.
He really wants to socializewith you, but he can't.
He is the dog who sits under thetable and his tail is over there
like this.
He wants to see you so bad he'sabout to explode.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
And so once we got through his his pain process,
right, he became a totally newdog.
He plays with the people, heplays with the you know, with
the other dogs.
He's a totally new dog.
And there is no possible way Iwould have been able to do his
exam and his diagnostics withouthis pre-meds.
Here's what's interesting hecame to me on Prozac, but no
(18:26):
pain meds.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Guess what helped more?
His pain meds.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Guess what?
Prozac also is a back door tothe pain system.
And so sometimes it helps alittle bit.
And I would say I would sharethat in these patients where
we're like, man, this dog issuper anxious.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:45):
Right?
Could it be pain?
If Prozac helps a little, that'sthe pain mans.
unknown (18:50):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Right.
Um, because you will find somuch more.
And then as you're alluding to,when you go in with your hands,
it the pain will be focal.
It will be where the pain iscoming from instead of
throughout the whole patient.
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
You mentioned that's a great point.
You mentioned going in with yourhands.
Physical exam can be a realcritical thing.
And it's interesting, people,some people don't realize that
people like yourself or myselfwho have had rehabilit
rehabilitation certification,who have had pain management
certification, sometimes have alittle bit of an leg up on
(19:24):
determining these spots.
And I often get um justyesterday, I had a dog that came
in and was referred in for backpain.
And the the veterinarian said,Oh, yeah, I'm picking up lumbar
spinal pain.
Uh, that's what's going on.
I want it to come in for rehab.
And the client said, Well, whydo I have to have a rehab exam
(19:46):
if my my veterinarian and Isaid, you know, there are times
when I just want to go over formyself.
I may want to get measurements,girth measurements of the back
legs.
There are certain things that Ican do that I like.
And that dog had a partialcruciate uh rupture in its left
knee.
And, you know, and again, it'syou I have to handle that very
(20:07):
carefully with like my petparent.
Um, and but it's you know, it'sjust interesting to see that
when you do these exams and youhave kind of this kind of leg
up, it makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
No, we hope that anything we study, we get good
at.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Uh, right.
And so I am not about to goteach French.
Nope.
Nope.
However, I have studied animalrehabilitation and pain
management.
So you're a hundred percent hitit.
And you know, to give ourselvesjust a little grace, um, right,
when animals are painful inmultiple places, it totally
makes sense that somebody whohas really good but basic
(20:47):
training and pain management andexam might pick up on one of
those, right?
As rehabbers, admit we arefairly obsessed about finding
all of the problems so we canfix all of the problems because
physical rehabilitation, becausephysical rehabilitation is all
about the whole pet.
It's about return to function.
(21:07):
And if we don't actually findall the reasons they're painful,
they only get partially better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That grumpiness only slightlygoes away.
You're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
Well, and it or it ebbs and flows.
It gets better and worse.
How many times have you heardthat?
Right?
So, yes, I I uh applaud you forfor having studied and being
careful and and precise aboutwhat you're trying to do.
That is the benefit of seeingany specialist.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And then we we often talk aboutthe diagnostics that are
involved, uh, radiographs, gateanalysis.
Um, any any thoughts on thatthat world?
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Oh, you know I do.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
That's that's why I asked, of course.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
So in my best world, if we could screen all of our
pets for arthritis when they getspated neutered, which in our
world now is an evolution,right?
Might that might be a year or ayear and a half old.
Um, right, if we could do justscreening x-rays, just one basic
hip extended x-ray, just to see.
Yep, I would advise considering,depending on the breed, it's a
(22:16):
pity, the pities.
We need to x-ray their kneestoo, right?
Because those subtle things wecould be picking up even before
truly even sensitive hands.
And and this can be done ingeneral practice as part of
wellness care, right?
So just as we would screen olderdogs for cancer, I would like us
to do basic x-rays, two elbows,one hip extended, maybe two
(22:39):
knees, and all of our spay andpatients, every single one.
Yes, even the little ones.
SPEAKER_03 (22:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
And and if this is a breed that me, you know, might
might benefit maybe like aFrenchie, maybe a spine x-ray
would be a good idea, right?
Because it tells us.
Yeah, because what would you dowith that, Mandy?
So say you get a two-year-old,let's call it a French bulldog.
Right?
Yeah.
And you know that his spine ismaybe not perfect.
(23:06):
Um, and maybe his patellas arejust a little bit on the loose
side.
What would you do differentlyfor this two-year-old dog if you
had that knowledge?
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Yeah, a lot.
You're right.
I mean, it's very, very helpful.
And it's interesting because Ialso go have to go to a place um
on these screening situationswhere I now believe that biome
should be part of every youngdog's wellness exam.
Because when you when I canidentify excess streptococcus,
or I can identify uh a dysbiosisgoing on or a vitamin D level
(23:38):
that's not correct.
Oh my God, I can make such adifference in that animal.
But then it's just one morething I've got to add along with
the Phillips.
But you're absolutely right.
These are things that I think wewill evolve into.
I really see this as, you know,the proactive part of veterinary
medicine is getting so muchbetter.
And I think people like yourselfand myself, we keep on proposing
(24:00):
this and putting it out there tothe to the ether, it's gonna
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Yes.
Well, and and slowly as we uhhave clients long term and they
become part of our our wellnesstribe, right?
And we all believe the samethings, then we start to do it
on on the regular.
So, right, so you say, okay,every six months we check their
biome, right?
Once every couple years after wehave their baseline x-rays, we
(24:27):
might x-ray them again and justsee how their body's changing
and what we can do to changethat, versus it's trying to
accept it once they're haveproblems.
Which, yes, of course, we can doall of these things.
Like we said, for older pets, wecan change lives, right?
But we have an opportunity foryears ahead of time.
(24:48):
Uh, I love that you brought upthe biome.
There is an integrative and onehealth group, meaning humans and
animals studying the biome as itrelates to pain uh at NC State
currently.
Uh I cannot wait to see.
Yeah, I can't wait to see.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yeah, we're at the University of Arizona with Dr.
Weil, who I work with quite abit.
Um, they're actually doing abeautiful study on the brain-gut
connection and the interplaybetween biome and all of the um,
you know, seizures and maniasand bipolar disease.
And and there, I mean, I have tojust tell you this one little
story because I I just talked tohim the other day.
(25:25):
There was a little girl thatcame in five years old, seizures
every single day, seizuringevery single day on four
different seizure medicines.
And they put her in the studyand did her biome and found that
she was very out of balance.
Um, C.
diff, Cperf, um, also highStreptococcus levels, and then
(25:46):
some of the other, you know,kind of unusual type bacteria
and and yeast.
And corrected her biome throughfecal microbiome transfer,
giving her good poop, guys.
That's what that means.
And she is down to once a month.
Once a month.
I mean, and you know, it's it'sso it's it's so exciting to see
(26:07):
this these things coming.
And I know they'll we'll get toincorporate these things in our
practice more and more um astime goes on.
That's why we're here.
Yep.
So we've now kind of identifiedpain.
Um, let's talk about rehab andregenerative medicine, because I
know that's huge for you, that'shuge for me.
(26:27):
Um, I love our listeners to knowwhat what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
Yeah.
Well, um, so I think this isselfishly again where I kind of
refer back to people and maybethe horses a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:41):
Um, because if we think about, if our goal is that
our pets are as healthy aspossible, that means, of course,
systemically, diet, etc., but italso means physically.
And if we think about as aspecies, who has the best
physical care, right?
Then we kind of start leaninginto like who would that be?
(27:02):
Humans and horses.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (27:04):
And then if you compare humans and horses by
percentage, it's the horses.
unknown (27:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (27:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
Because um, because we expect them to be physically
well.
Okay.
And so if we just start with thebaseline of physically well
means you're not on daily meds,anti-inflammatories, etc., to be
comfortable and you can run,jump, and play and do what you
want to do.
That takes some time to getphysically trained for that,
right?
So our humans that are likehorses are people who are in
(27:33):
sports, right?
And those are the people who getthe physical care.
And I'm not gonna talking aboutjust massage.
We all deserve massage, right?
The natural process of agingcross cross links your collagen.
So I I give you all permissionto have massage.
Okay.
So I'm talking about though, theactual physical training and
rehab.
So these young animals that wewant to be able to be at clinic,
(27:55):
say that they are maybe doingfun stuff like fly ball or
agility or you know, any kind ofcompetition sport, say they're
training to hunt, um, right, oror just even take long hikes
with you.
If we have those guys in theclinic and do their physical
training, it's rehab, but it'sactually prehab, right?
That's getting them to besymmetrical and strong.
(28:17):
That prevents injury, right?
And the crazy part is peoplewill say, Well, I take my dog
for a walk twice a day.
Well, you and I both know thatdoes not actually change the
stability muscles around thejoint.
So here's what's important aboutthat.
It's a very different movementto walk than it is to get out of
a chair, than it is to land offof a jump.
(28:41):
Right.
So this is so important becauseit means we can do physical
exercise for young animals whenthey're healthy, so they can be
healthier.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
Yes, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
Uh, and we in the horse community we know that,
right?
So oftentimes horses will behave their diagnostic x-rays
when they're three years old.
Um, you know, and then we'restarting to think, well, geez, I
don't want to have to give themanything or do anything to them.
They're young.
Okay, enter regenerativemedicine.
What if, what if we could takethe components of blood of
(29:16):
platelets that help repairtissue and put them back into
the tissues where they aredamaged.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
We can.
It's it's called platelet richrich plasma, it's called
platelet rich plasma.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
And we can get fancy and do stem cells and collagen
and all kinds of things, right?
So if we just know, if we justknow one, that we have an animal
that is in work and maybecreating damage.
I mean, we we expect a50-year-old football player to
have some arthritis, don't we?
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:47):
Like, how could there not be?
Right.
So if we just know and expectit, right?
Um, and you use some some ofthese things in your practice.
What are your favorites?
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Well, I'm doing a lot.
Um, I actually uh got turned onrecently.
Recently to PRGF, which isplatelet-rich growth factors
coming over from Spain, acompany called Endoret.
I love the responses I'm gettingwith that.
And I often I often combine itwith something like Spring or
(30:18):
some kind of cushioning agentthat I'll put in there.
I know there's a lot of them outthere.
I don't know if you're usingCinnobitin or some of those
other products.
But that's, you know, theseanimals get shockwave and then
they get these injections.
And it's been goingphenomenally.
Oh, give me an example.
Tell me about a case.
(30:38):
So little dog Jack Jack, uh,little fox um wire hair fox
terrier, bilateral cruciatetears.
Um, didn't want to go tosurgery.
He's 12 years old.
And, you know, the no matterwhat I talked about, the client
said, Nope, we're we're gonna dorehab and we're gonna do
(30:59):
whatever you think you can do tohelp my dog.
And so we, you know, did thewhole food conversation, the
biome, all of that stuff, andsupplements.
And then we uh talked aboutjoint injections.
And so dog had shockwave, doghad bilateral PRGF and spring.
(31:20):
And I just got a uh a call fromthe lady who thinks that I walk
on water, even though I told herthat I can't find the stones to
do that with.
Um, but the dog is just, I mean,he's so happy and he's doing so,
so well.
And with physical therapies,he's in rehab here, so he's
getting laser and he's gettingPEMF and he's getting underwater
(31:43):
treadmill and he's getting homeexercises.
Um, he he's he's just doinggreat.
And so that's a great, you know,piece.
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Oh, I have questions.
Can I ask questions?
Oh you you can.
SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
I don't know if I'm gonna answer them, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
Well, so is Jack Jack on medications now?
And how if so, how many comparedto when he started?
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Oh, so um when he came in, he was on uh N said, he
was on Remadil.
Uh he was on Um uh also onTramadol.
He was also on trying to thinkwhat else.
Anyway, there were three or fourthat he was taking with very
limited success.
(32:26):
And right now he's taking alittle bit of gabapentin because
he does have some anxiety uh andit lowers his, it's an
anti-anxiolytic along with painmedicine.
I don't have to worry about youknow his kidney and liver so
much with with that drug, andthat's all.
That's all he's taking.
That he gets ataquan um as asupplement.
(32:47):
He gets uh jope, he getsomega-3s, um, he has on he's
also on a little bit of myoscanine for for to help limit
myostatin uh production.
But yeah, I mean he's doingphenomenal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
Randy, I'd work with you any day.
So the process you're talkingabout, just for the listeners,
right, is this process of goingfrom pain management through
healing, actual healing.
So you don't need the painmedications anymore, right?
And supplements are designed toprovide some of the nutrition
(33:22):
that those tissues need to behealthy, right?
So this obviously, this ownerand this veterinarian that had
Jack Jack before, they weredoing everything they could to
try to make him better withmedications.
You can see it, right?
But what he really needed wasfor somebody to go in and change
his tissues.
And so there's this concept thatI will touch on lightly here,
(33:45):
right?
In that there's different kindsof pain.
Yes, right.
And so the reason therehabilitation piece is so
important is it addresses thephysical sources of pain.
And that is actually the onlyway to reset the system.
So what happens when we getpainful is that our neurologic
system takes in that informationthat we're painful, we're
(34:06):
painful, we're painful, and itbecomes like a dial on a radio,
for those of us old enough toknow what a dial on a radio is.
Right.
So we we turn up the volume ofthe pain system and it fires
faster and it fires louder thanit's supposed to.
And pretty soon the whole painsystem is ringing.
That process cannot be stoppedwithout the right medications in
(34:30):
the right order, and then alsocare of those tissues so that
they stop screaming because thebrain and then it's and the
spinal cord have that ringinggoing on.
SPEAKER_01 (34:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
And so it's this process of literally unwinding
the wind-up pain that brings usback to being able to control
the whole system again.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:50):
Right.
Um, and so that that leads meinto the second soapbox.
Um, right, you mentioned somereally oh, you mentioned some
great supplements, right?
And there are, I mean, how manysupplements are out there for
pet pain?
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Um unbelievable numbers.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
Yeah.
So how did you choose Adaquan isa favorite?
How did you choose Adaquan?
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
I um Adequan came to be, again, from the horse world,
um, when it, you know, when itwas being used there so so
frequently.
And the fact that Adequan helps,in my mind, helps um our
cartilage imbibe water to becomespongier is like, oh my God,
what does that?
I mean, I can't think of a lotof things that will do that, you
(35:34):
know?
Um, so I I've been using, Imean, uh, you know, I'm an old
guy, but I've been using Adequanfor a long time.
And um, it is definitely part ofmy protocol uh and seeing
amazing, amazing results.
SPEAKER_02 (35:49):
Amazing.
I mean, so Adequan is the onlydisease-modifying arthritis drug
that we have.
In other words, it is the onlysupplement, if you will, that
actually changes the process ofarthritis, right?
It is an anti-inflammatory, itsequesters the chemistry in
there that creates damage andpain.
(36:11):
It also, as you alluded to,pumps up the cartilage over
time.
That takes the whole series,right?
Like that's not one injection ofAdiquan.
You have to build it up overtime.
And so what's interesting is ifyou give an injection or two of
Anaquan, they feel better.
If you give a series of Adequon,they now have healthier joint
lining and cartilage.
(36:32):
Yeah, booyah.
Like, what else could we like tohave this?
Yes, right.
And so it brings up thisquestion of like, geez, you
know, it's a little moreexpensive than buying uh an
over-counter glucosamine.
Yeah, you betcha.
However, did you know?
This kind of broke my heart,Randy.
It was a systematicmeta-analysis.
(36:53):
They took 200 papers aboutglucosamine and asked this
question, does it reallyactually do anything?
And said out of all the decadesof glucosamine research, it does
it does absolutely nothing forpain.
And there are no measurablechanges from glucosamine.
(37:15):
There are some in the veterinaryworld, some small studies,
right, that are important.
NeutraMash did great work there,so I don't mean to to poo-hoo
that.
But if I'm thinking about apatient, let's go with again, a
two-year-old lab, sure, um,right, I know has elbal
arthritis, uh, we're gonna gobetter, right?
We want to use something thatactually changes the disease
(37:37):
process.
We know that it costs a littlebit more.
We also know what we get from itis much better, right?
unknown (37:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Um, and so if you had to pick two more of your
favorite evidence-basedsupplements, you mentioned a
couple, what would they be?
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
Um well, I mentioned JOPE.
Um, it's ultra collagen, youknow, I I really like the um
ultra-collagen two that's inthere and the turmeric.
Um the myos I talked aboutbecause of the really the
beautiful studies that are beingdone right now in sarcopenia
where we're losing muscle and umchronic kidney disease in cats
(38:14):
where they lose so much muscle,hyperthyroidism.
Um, so I love that product.
Um there are you know, there'ssome there's some other things
in in in Chinese medicine thatI've used, um, but those are my
main ones.
How about yourself?
Yeah, I mean, I know you havesomething on your mind because
you wouldn't have asked that.
SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
So well, I think that your listeners need to know
this.
I think that they might be outthere buying 50 supplements.
How do I know?
Because our clients come in witha basket, right?
We have the best clients on theplanet.
They are doing everything theycan, and they don't just bring
in the list, they bring in thebasket, right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
So if we are spending hundreds of dollars a
month on the wrong supplementsthat we could be spending on
joint injections, shockwave,rehab, PRP, PR, platelet rich
growth factor, like some ofthese things that actually
change the body.
Yes, what would the outcome be?
Right?
(39:13):
So I think this is criticallyimportant.
And we always get this questionwell, what's best?
So I'm asking this questionbecause I love what you're
doing.
Undernatured collagen 2 hasgreat evidence that it helps
slow the degeneration of our owncollagen.
Did you know that we break downour own collagen?
That's annoying.
Right?
So it's important.
(39:34):
It's important.
Um, so I I love UC2.
Whether it is uh dope is a goodone, turmeric has proven to be
anti-inflammatory.
Love that.
Um, so whatever form.
Myos, right?
Obviously, money muscle benefitsare important.
Um, the other one that's provenis uh tried and true, right?
Uh omega-3 fatty acids.
Um, so it turns out that thereason we have been telling you,
(39:58):
pet parents, for years to giveyour pets fish oil is because it
interrupts the production ofinflammation.
It literally is like a puzzlepiece.
It will go in there and jam thesystem so you make less
inflammation.
Amazing, right?
And both UC2 and omega-3 fattyacids have been tested against
an NSAID like Rimadil and shownto have similar effect.
(40:22):
Right?
And so, not to um take the hatoff the magic here, right?
Because Randy, you are magic.
Um, what percentage of yourpatients do you think live on
four kinds of chronic medicationfor pain?
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Um, I would say um probably my my personal ones are
after I see them or before whenthey come to me.
Yes.
Which one?
unknown (40:46):
Which one?
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Tell me tell me how that looks.
So the patients when they cometo you, what percentage of them
are on tons of medication?
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Oh, I would say easily 85 to 90 percent easily.
SPEAKER_02 (40:58):
Yeah.
And after they're in rehab forusually the process takes a
couple months, right?
You're rebuilding the body.
So go three months, three monthslater, what percentage do you
think are on all of thosechronic medications still?
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
I would say um very I mean less than five percent.
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
If we've gotten our hands on them and w they're
doing our protocol and or whatyou know what we know to have
worked, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Yeah.
And but that doesn't happen withsupplements alone, right?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
And so what would you say to people who are
hearing this and they'rethinking, man, I give my dog all
the right supplements, I justdon't, I just don't take it in a
rehab.
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
Well, I would say it's being like half pregnant.
You know, you either are oryou're not.
Um, so I tell people, I tellpeople, you know, if we really
want health span, longevity, andwellness for your pet, this
multimodal modal effect that youalluded to earlier is so
important.
And, you know, it's not justwalking them more or swimming
(42:02):
them more, it's having directionwhere you're getting um
underwater treadmill where thatthat exercise, you get 70 to 80
percent of the the pain off ofuh the weight off of that joint
in a controlled environment.
You get laser, you get PEMF, youget exercises that are given to
you.
Um this really it's just it'sjust a ticket.
(42:25):
And and I I I always I I alwaysit's hard for me a little bit to
see, like last week I had aphenomenal dog, so so beautiful.
It was 10 years old and just sopainful.
And the lady only wanted to do acouple supplements, you know,
didn't want to do Adaquan,didn't want to do rehab.
(42:46):
And, you know, so you know, Idid my job and we laid this all
out for them.
And obviously they got beautifulnotes and a discharge
instruction advising all thesethings.
And my only my only hope on thatcase is that she'll see the
light and start coming to someof the other things that that we
can do to help that dog.
Because that's all I want to do,and that's all you want to do.
(43:06):
We want to we want to make thispet comfortable.
SPEAKER_02 (43:09):
Yeah, I do you think that's that she doesn't want to
do the other things?
What do you think was theobstacle?
SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Well, I'm sure you know, I'm sure cost is always a
concern.
Um, you know, it's there, andand I can't can't lie, it's it's
tough.
When you're in a situation wheremedical medicine is out of
pocket and is not so beautifullycovered by or not beautifully
covered, I should say, by healthinsurance.
Um, you know, it's it'sdifficult for some clients.
(43:39):
And and we we try to help allthe way we can.
I mean, if they want to getsupplements online, you know,
I'm not a supplementsalesperson.
I please get them wherever youcan save money.
Um we try to help on ontherapies and whatnot too to
scale things down.
You know, we always offer the Aplan, as you know, because
that's what I feel responsiblefor.
(44:00):
But if we have to go to B and C,we do.
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
That's right.
Well, and so here's the crazything.
How many people do you think doregenerative medicine for
themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
I would say very few.
SPEAKER_02 (44:14):
And what do you think the obstacle is?
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
Um well, I think it's it's typically that they're
gonna see an orthopedic surgeonwho said this needs to be a
surgical procedure and theydon't tout uh the PRP or the
stem cells or you know, or thechondro protective agents,
whatever.
I I think that they're just notgetting the information.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
Yeah.
And even sometimes when they doget the information, right, then
what's the obstacle?
SPEAKER_00 (44:41):
Um, I think it's this well, I think it's the
practitioners bent on whatreally works and what doesn't,
or their experience.
SPEAKER_02 (44:50):
Yeah.
So it's it's always a limit.
The limitation is always what wedon't know and what we haven't
prepared for.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
Right?
Um, because I would say I thinkyou're right.
And I think the third bucket isthese are people who also have
not saved money for their healthcare, and regenerative medicine
for people is also out ofpocket.
SPEAKER_01 (45:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
And so if I had any takeaway messages to add to this
podcast, it would be that one.
It would be guys, animals, justlike people who have arthritis
that starts when they're young,are going to have medical
problems that we need to belooking for so that we're
(45:32):
actually solving a problem thatcan be solved easily, and it is
gonna cost money.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:37):
So if we save the money, we get to do the therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (45:42):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
And so that's the hardest part, I think, right,
for us as veterinarians is weget all of this knowledge.
We build this safe wellnessatmosphere, fear-free, as kind
as possible.
We study all the things.
And then what it comes down tois well, I can only do this much
because I only have this muchmoney.
SPEAKER_01 (46:02):
Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
Or because I only want to spend this much money
because this dog is how old?
Because I didn't know thisbefore.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (46:10):
Right.
And so if there's anything totake away from this, it's that,
right?
We need to be saving like wewould save for humans, right?
So my I'm not afraid to say myhealth insurance is about$350 a
month.
If I actually used all the moneyI put into my health insurance,
do you know how muchregenerative medicine I could
do?
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:29):
Yeah.
Right.
So pet insurance or no petinsurance, right?
From the day we get them, if wehave enough money and don't get
them until we do, right?
Right.
To save to save monthly fortheir health care, by the time
we need it, we get to do reallycool stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Yeah.
And, you know, I love that pointbecause I bring this up to my my
puppies and kitten people allthe time.
I said, you know, if you'relooking at uh pet insurance for
major medical, I don't have aproblem with that typically.
Although you're right, it's abig expense.
But a health savings account foryour pet would make even more
(47:08):
sense because you're not onlygenerating some uh interest, you
know, little as it could besometimes, but um, but you're
you're building on that.
And in no time you'll have fundsthat, God forbid, your dog gets
that OA diagnosis, your cat, orwhatever.
Um, then it's there.
(47:28):
So you're absolutely right.
It's such a really criticalpoint.
It's not just insurance.
Although the good thing for us,uh at least what I'm seeing is
some of the insurance companiesnow are covering some of the
integrative medicine, some ofthe rehab medicine.
We didn't have that for quite awhile.
I mean, people said, Oh, youwant to do acupuncture on my
dog, my insurance company won'tcover that.
But some of them that now do.
(47:49):
So some of them do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:51):
Yeah.
So so smart, such a smart point,right?
That we need to look at whichcompanies cover congenital
conditions.
Because the the reason theywon't cover it is because it's
pre-existing.
And I think, like I said, 80% ofanimals have arthritis that
they've had since they were ohyeah, they were born with it.
Right.
So the problem with insuranceand trying to cover the physical
(48:13):
medicine that we do is there'salmost always a loophole.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
So if you save the money, no one will ever tell you
no.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Yes.
No, you're absolutely right.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
Right.
Um, and so I'm I'm all about petinsurance and I have used it.
Um, and there are a couplecompanies I'm so grateful uh to
the animals that they, you know,they have really helped change
lives for.
SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
And we're you know, but it's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (48:35):
Yeah, it really is.
So um we're probably we'rerunning out of time, which
always um I'm so sad about.
Um I um I want to say that, youknow, I can't thank you enough
for what you do.
And, you know, you're you know,really it's it's a it's a light.
And you know, when I go out anddo my talks, um, I got a couple
(48:55):
cut cat talks coming up, whichI'm real excited about.
Um, you know, I encourage thesepeople to any subtle change that
you see in your pet, tell yourveterinary.
I mean, start start there andlet let he or she know what
you're seeing and and andhopefully they they can address
that or at least look forcausation in that situation.
(49:18):
Um, because that, you know, thispain we can prevent and manage
and mitigate.
Um, you know, these are thingsthat, you know, these pets don't
have to suffer if we can getthis early enough as we you and
I have talked.
But I also tell people, um, youknow, when I had that
12-year-old dog, that dog couldlive to 17 or 18.
I don't know that.
You don't know that.
(49:38):
And so why not have what we callhealth span and not just
longevity for this pet?
SPEAKER_02 (49:45):
I love this.
I love this.
And I will put in one last plugfor the cat.
Please.
Uh, right, because uh of ourpets, which are the animals that
live to be 20 years old?
SPEAKER_00 (49:57):
It's our felines, it's our cats.
The cats.
SPEAKER_02 (50:00):
And you're you hit it, right?
They they very rarely actuallyeven go to the vet because
they're so quiet.
SPEAKER_01 (50:05):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (50:06):
And so be mindful, right, as our pet parents and
our cat lovers, um, right, thecats get horrendous disease that
truly makes them quieter.
SPEAKER_00 (50:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
And then the opposite is also true.
If you have an excessively spicykitty, ask yourself, is there
anything I could be missing?
It's usually their teeth, theirelbows, or their back.
Because we don't brush theirteeth, right?
It's difficult, uh, and theyjump off of things for a living,
(50:38):
right?
So if you think about it, right?
Again, if you are a uh a stuntman for movies, right?
How good do you think your kneesare by the time you've done this
for 10 years, right?
So remember, cats are veryspecial.
We know they're aliens, butthey're also stunt doubles for
movies.
So they need they need regularevaluation that is real.
(50:59):
That means you have to bringthem in, guys.
Please bring in your cats.
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Yep.
Thank you so, so much.
Um, this is always such apleasure.
Um, I don't know if you guyslistening understand this, but
it's just as much fun for me andMarie to do this as for you to
listen to what's going on.
So if you have questions, Marie,talk about your site, your
website again if people want toask questions or get more
(51:23):
information.
SPEAKER_02 (51:24):
Yes, I'm mostly doing veterinary education right
now.
And so I'm going to redirectthem mostly to you.
However, um, the website ishelpspotrun.com.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
It's a wonderful website, guys, if you haven't
seen it.
And then ours is Dr.
Randy Petfet.
Uh, there's a newsletter,there's podcasts, there's
YouTube, there's God knows what.
I mean, videos we're making.
Um, and hopefully we'll be outon the speaking circuit.
Um, because I'm more directedtoward the pet parent.
I, you know, I love the factthat you can reach out to the us
(51:55):
as veterinarians.
And the disappointment for me isI started a long time ago on
this integrative track, and itwas, I was a charlatan.
I mean, it was really difficultto go to a veterinary meeting
and talk to veterinarians abouteven things like B12 or, you
know, whatever, easy stuff, letalone biome and and and the and
(52:16):
and allergy testing and thiskind of thing.
So, anyway, um, thank you foryour job because we we all need
to get educated, especially inour profession.
And guys, I think you can seethat Dr.
Marie and I are very optimisticabout this subject.
We can make a difference in yourcat and dog.
Um, just be off be aware of it,observe, talk to your
(52:39):
veterinarian, and if you're notgetting anywhere, get to
somebody else who who can maybelook at it a little closer.
SPEAKER_02 (52:46):
Yeah, I think that's brilliant.
And we're gonna share someresources with them, right?
So the things to know where tofind a rehab veterinarian.
We can give you a couplewebsites where you can find your
own locally.
SPEAKER_01 (52:57):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (52:58):
Uh, is my dog overweight, my cat overweight,
and my it is this maybecontributing to over time what
they might have for healthproblems, diabetes, arthritis,
etc.
Right.
And then does my animal havepain?
SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (53:12):
Right.
And so we'll make sure you havethose references and then on my
website, probably the best thingis just an example of those
videos.
Um right.
So you have a good description.
I know you guys can do it anddon't stress out.
If you can get any video,especially with cats, bring it
to your vet just for even yourannual wellness, right?
Just to do, just to do ascreening because everything you
(53:33):
see at home will be so muchbetter than what we can see when
they're excited and nervous inthe clinic.
SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
Absolutely.
Well, my my my prayers are thatyou you and I run into each
other in one of these meetingsor somewhere that we can see
each other.
And obviously, you know, you'realways welcome to Tucson.
Um, I actually have my rehab umuh certified tech coming to
Colorado that I need to ask.
I'll I'll text you about it.
But she'd like to see the clinicif you're gonna be around or you
know, get some ideas of where tovisit because she'll be in
(54:00):
Denver.
So we'll talk about that.
Thank you.
That's all I can do.
Pleasure, Randy.
From the bottom of my heart.
I really appreciate it.
Have a good time.
Take care.
Thank you for all you do.
Absolutely, you too.
Thanks.
Bye.
What if I told you your pet could be struggling
with pain right now?
And you may not even know it.
Dogs and cats instinctually maskdiscomfort.
Today we're going to talk aboutawareness, testing and
diagnosis, pain management, andrehabilitation and maintenance,
and why recognizing these cuesare so important for the comfort
and happiness with your pet.
(00:30):
Stick with us on this becausethis is an incredible podcast
that we're going to have.
I expand a warm welcome to allof our listeners.
And this is a very significantepisode with my good friend Dr.
Marie Bartling.
Dr.
Marie graduated as aveterinarian from Colorado State
in 2005.
She's worked all kinds ofpractices from Mexico to Alaska
(00:53):
on animals that range fromhorses, pigs, goats to dogs and
cats.
And over the last 10 years, herpractice has evolved into a
focused, integrativerehabilitation and pain
management practice for dogs andcats, where she uses joint
injection therapy, myofascialcare, chiropractic care,
acupuncture, and exerciseprograms in conjunction with
(01:15):
medication and surgery torestore physical health to her
pets.
Hey Marie, did I uh did I catchall that or did I miss anything?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
You know what, Randy?
I hope, I actually hope thatwhat our listeners are saying
right now is like, whoa, that'sa lot.
Yeah.
Because there's so much that wecan do to improve the physical
health of our pets and that weshould be doing for ourselves.
So Randy, you totally got it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Good, good.
So before we get started, I wantto ask a favor.
If you're watching on YouTube,please subscribe to the channel.
Give us a like.
If you're following yourfavorite podcast app, like on
Instagram, it's Dr.
Randy Petvet.
For health and wellness tips,it's drrandypetvet.com.
Marie, tell our listeners yourwebsite because it's so
important.
We'll have it in the notes also.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
I have a website that provides veterinary
education calledhelpspotrun.com.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Thank you.
Perfect.
So um to you know, today, youknow, one of the things that we
wanted to talk about was thatour pets hide this pain.
Um, and so obviously, awarenessis a very important thing.
Uh, talk a little bit about whatthat looks like to you.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So I don't know about you, Randy, but you know,
we see an awful lot of patients,clients that have seen sometimes
two or three veterinarians forweird stuff.
We have a veterinary behavioristin my practice.
So I see all the really weirdstuff.
So it means they come in andthey'll say, okay, he's been
eating the walls, chasing histail, barking at people he
(02:52):
loves, afraid.
He's now afraid of my child.
He's starting to bite at people.
So what's interesting is there'sa study about this.
Actually, Daryl Mullis did astudy on this, and they found
that some in a retrospectivestudy of a bunch of different ER
cases, that up to 80% ofbehavior cases, just acting
(03:13):
weird, relate to animal pain.
And most of those areorthopaedic pain.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
So really, what this ends up looking like is anything
that an animal can be doingthat's strange, anything that
makes them more shy than normal,more protective than normal,
grumpier than normal.
Um, right, just think about howpeople manifest pain, right?
We all have this image in ourhead of what what a grumpy old
(03:42):
man looks like.
Oh, come.
Probably hurts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Probably hurts.
Yeah, I'm I look in the mirrorand I see that guy sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
I'm glad you don't show them to me and your clients
very often.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
No, no, no.
And and as I tell people whenthey come in here, age is not a
disease, so we're good at we'regood at that.
Um, but you know, it'sinteresting that you said that
because one of the things I lovewhen clients come to see me is
um he's not in pain because he'snot limping.
And I know you've probably heardthat a gazillion times.
And I try to explain to themthat, you know, let's look at
(04:19):
the video of him walking, orlet's watch he or she walk in
person and let me be the judgeof that.
And also through our physicalexam, let me be the judge of
that.
Because maybe we might be ableto uncover something that you're
not quite getting.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Oh man, I love what you're saying right now.
So all of my clients take videoat home before they come because
most of the time, dogs andespecially cats will have
changes in how they move thatdon't maybe look like overt
limping, and it's very subtle.
And even veterinarians sometimescan't pick it up, right?
(04:53):
Not you or me, of course.
Um, right, no, but it means thatyou have to see it when the
animal is in the act of whateverhurts in an environment where
they're not distracted byanything else, and they're not
scared and trying to hide it.
Which means that in our clinic,like that's kind of one of the
hardest places to see pain inanimals.
(05:16):
And so what's really the best isthose is those videos.
And when they are doingsomething, going up and down the
stairs, getting in and out ofthe car, and particularly if
there's something hard to do,get video of that, right?
That's that's when we see it.
And um, to your point, most ofthe young animals, it can be so
hard, right?
(05:36):
Because they have great energy,they move fast, even if they're
not moving normally.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Yep.
And can you suggest to ourlisteners on getting those
videos?
I know you have you have alittle kind of routine that you
usually recommend.
Can we we talk about that rightnow?
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Absolutely.
So this one will be for all ofthe horse people in the
audience.
Um, right.
Well, when you have a backgroundin large animals and
specifically horses, we havethis expectation that they are
all athletic.
Uh, they should all be able tocarry a rider and jump over
fences or do it at whatever itis we want them to do, and that
they should like it.
Uh, and so what happens thoughis because horses are designed
(06:17):
in our mind for this purpose andand can be expensive to keep and
feed and maintain, we do regularlameness exams on horses.
And so that is where I developthis idea, this technique.
So it means that what I preferto do is have a stationary
phone.
So ideally, it's not a person,because you know what happens
when the camera's moving.
It's hard.
It's hard to tell.
(06:37):
So if we really want this to gowell, what you do is you get a
tripod or maybe even a shelf,somewhere stable, and put the
phone on it.
Then you're gonna walk the dog,attempt to walk, not run, walk
the dog towards the camera, awayfrom the camera, and then go
around the room in a circle eachdirection.
(06:58):
And what that will do for us asveterinarians is help us pick up
the subtleties, right?
Because an animal that hurts in,say, a right front limb, if
they're going to the right, theyput more weight on that side and
it makes it more obvious.
If they have a neurologicproblem where maybe they don't
100% know where their feet are,that circle will bring that out
every time.
And if we're getting fancy, youdo a big circle that gets into a
(07:20):
smaller circle, because thenyou'll really be able to see
delays in their foot placement.
And so if I was doing it athome, that's what I asked my
clients to do is forward, awayfrom the camera, around in a
circle, kind of spiral into themiddle, and then spiral back
out.
And if they want five stars,because all of my clients are
five stars, right?
(07:41):
Of course, then you want a videoof them watching, watching from
behind the dog going up a set ofstairs, right?
And then from the front of thedog watching them come back down
the stairs.
And as as ideally walk and trot,like when they're running, it's
hard to get it.
So if you need two or threetakes, go for it.
The more video, the better.
unknown (08:02):
Right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Well, you you'll love this uh being the the horse
reference because my wife doesdressage.
So we have a pivot setup.
You know, do you know what thatis?
So so I had a client come theother day and she used it, and
it was amazing because you know,we watched it followed her,
tracked her around with the dog,did all the things that you you
referenced, and it was very,very helpful.
(08:24):
But we don't need to spend thatkind of money to do that.
Uh I think everything youalluded to is perfect.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Well, and the funny part is we now have cameras that
watch pets at home and throwtreats and do all kinds of
things.
So I'm sure there are tons ofpermutations of this.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
Yeah.
No, that's perfect.
You know, and and we talk aboutthis because um let's talk about
why it's so important to catchthis early, because you and I
often don't have that luxury.
Um, many, many times, yoursecond and third opinion, my
second and third opinion.
It's been going on for quite awhile, whatever's going on, and
then we finally get this animal.
(09:00):
Um, let let maybe just a minutetalk about, you know, recognize
this in the young.
And and we, you know, we mayalso allude to the cat situation
there too, because as you know,so many of our cats have OA,
have osteoarthritis, um, butthey don't show it because they
in the wild would get eaten.
So uh they're not gonna show itat home sometimes, too.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yeah.
Well, you're singing my song, sothank you for asking this
question.
It is so near and dear to myheart because I entered
veterinary medicine as a petparent.
I truly didn't know.
Randy, I did not know that younganimals have arthritis, right?
In my mind, it's it's it's veryold thinking.
(09:43):
In my mind, arthritis is an oldperson, horse, dog, cat,
disease.
Here's the crazy part.
It turns out arthritis comesfrom instability, and the most
common cause of jointinstability in animals,
particularly dogs, is what?
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
It's usually genetics.
It's dysplasia.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Exactly.
Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:09):
Genetics.
Genetic hip dysplasia, elbowdysplasia, right, spinal
malformation, right?
You hit it.
And so what does that mean?
Holy moly, what does that mean?
It means that a huge percentageof our patients, like 80% of
them, have not had arthritis asan old animal, but their whole
(10:30):
life, which means that they arecoping with this with a bright
and shiny smile their whole lifeuntil they can't.
And then what happens is theycome to us and it's hard.
It's hard to see them indysfunction.
It's hard to feel like they'refailing, the animals, right?
And so we have now, say, a12-year-old dog, and really
(10:52):
there's a lot of things that wecan and could have done, but at
this stage, it's not going togive us as much for our effort,
and it's gonna cost more.
So we start having thisdiscussion around well, is is it
even worth it?
unknown (11:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
And that is my least favorite conversation.
Oh, yeah.
So my favorite conversation, ifthere is one around arthritis,
is unfortunately is hard to tellan owner that their puppy has
elbow dysplasia, right?
But my favorite is really if wecan get it this early, like what
are some of the things that youdo in your practice for dogs who
are young to middle-aged forarthritis that's that's kind of
(11:29):
special and makes a difference.
What do you use?
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
Well, I, you know, I I start at the beginning of
foundational medicine.
And so I'm working on my myfirst 20 minutes of any
conversation is typically diet,um, because I want all the anti,
I want no inflammation in thisin this animal's body because
that only spurs the painresponse and makes things worse.
(11:52):
And so getting soy, corn, wheat,rice, white potato out of their
diet.
Um, I look at the Chinese umprinciple of thermogenic
properties of food and gettinglamb and veal um and also um
chicken out of their diet.
People don't realize chicken canbe in hot meat helps.
(12:13):
And I go to the conversation ofsupplements.
So that conversation happensbefore we ever get to the other
types of things that you and Ido to help these animals.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
Absolutely.
And the other thing that we wereally do know, right?
There's all these, it's trickybecause then sometimes with the
clients that are reallyinvested, it's like, well, what
really works and what should Ibe doing and how do I make this
perfect?
Gosh, we're never perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
What we do know is the most important thing is that
we don't overfeed them ingeneral, right?
If we can keep their weightdown, and especially if we
already know they havearthritis, right?
It's been proven that a normalweight dog, they did this in
labs, old study, right?
Periodist study, normal weightdogs with hip dysplasia versus
obese dogs, same family with hipdysplasia, those dogs that are
(13:04):
overweight get six times morearthritis.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:08):
And so arthritis is not a certainty.
That's what we need to know.
Some animals get arthritis,people get arthritis in
different places in their body.
Right.
So we need to be thinking aboutholy cow, if we get to these
animals early in their life, wecan help them rebuild their
body, keep their symmetry,maintain their muscle
(13:31):
flexibility and range of motionand all of the things that
reduce friction and createarthritis.
Right.
So, um, so yes, my favoriteconversation is to start helping
with regenerative medicine, withdiet, with rehabilitation in
these patients that are maybe acouple years old.
We know they have a clinicalproblem.
(13:52):
We know that it's worth workingon.
We know we're giving them theirbest quality of life at their
peak performance, right?
Um, so it really is.
There's a sweet spot, and itdoes make that conversation a
little easier for all of us totake.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah.
It's always difficult.
You you mentioned I what Ialways struggle with is staring
at a very overweight client whonow has who is also has a very
young overweight animal andtrying to kind of enforce the
fact that we're looking at thatbody score, that we're we want
to grade your animal, showingthem the body score chart, and
(14:27):
then saying, you know, even thedog longevity study showed that
an animal that is a body scoreof five out of nine can
typically live two to have twoand a half years longer.
So I, you know, I I get them onthat point where it's like, I
want I want this kid to be withyou as long as possible, but not
just longevity, but health span.
(14:48):
We want to make sure thatthey're healthy and they're
feeling good.
So yeah, that that's greatmessage.
Great message.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
Yeah.
I mean, the best news is we knowthat that owner loves this dog
so much.
Exactly.
And so the tricky part then isto reframe those values and say,
okay, what is good, right?
What is good in the span oflongevity and health?
What do we want out of this?
And how can we show love that'snot food?
SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
Yeah.
No, uh, that that's that'sperfect.
That's perfect.
Um, let's move into testing anddiagnosis because I think that's
a really good uh thing to talkabout.
And one of the things that youshared with me, by the way, just
to let you know, this lady iskind of one of my heroes in in
mobility and pain.
So, you know, this is a real,real blessing that we have this
chance to talk.
(15:33):
But one of the things that youshared with me very early, which
I kind of forgot, was that a lotof times even doing gabapentin
before that dog comes into theclinic can help us actually spot
the pain easier or thediscomfort easier than allowing
them to be, you know, superexcited and having this, you
(15:54):
know, this uh fear factor of theclinic and and all of that.
Um, many, many times thatpre-dosing can really help you
and I spot a you know an area ofdiscomfort.
SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
100%.
So it's it's kind ofcounterintuitive for us who are
integrative and kind of holisticminded to want to give a
medication to our patients.
unknown (16:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:15):
So it's difficult for us to accept that.
But here's the thing pain afterit's set in for more than a
couple weeks starts to branchand it's more regional and
sometimes even crosses over thespinal cord.
If it's really intense and it'sbeen there for weeks to months,
something like really inflamedarthritis in a dog that maybe
(16:36):
has cushions, diabetes, baddiet, allergies, extra reasons
to be inflammatory, that patientis gonna hurt everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
It makes it so much harder for us to examine them
and for them to relax when theyhurt everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:51):
And so we evolved as veterinarians this process where
we always sedate for hip x-rays.
Well, that's how I get aroundit.
That's how you people like youand I get around it, right?
Is we do something like, okay,well, let's do a little cocktail
of something that helps relaxthem, like Trozidone, and
something that then takes someof the pain and anxiety away,
(17:12):
like the gabapentin, and evenRimidal if they need it that
day, right?
To get their x-rays done.
Exceptionally helpful in young,fearful patients.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yes, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Um, yeah, because really the reason they don't
want us to touch them or to taketheir x-ray is that they're
afraid that it will hurt becauseit usually does.
One of my favorite patients ofall time, he taught me so much.
His name is Atticus.
Atticus is a pity, and he isrescued by a family who rescues
pities.
(17:44):
They know these dogs, and theybrought him to me, and it was
one of those they said, youknow, he really wants to
socialize you with you.
He really wants to socializewith you, but he can't.
He is the dog who sits under thetable and his tail is over there
like this.
He wants to see you so bad he'sabout to explode.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
And so once we got through his his pain process,
right, he became a totally newdog.
He plays with the people, heplays with the you know, with
the other dogs.
He's a totally new dog.
And there is no possible way Iwould have been able to do his
exam and his diagnostics withouthis pre-meds.
Here's what's interesting hecame to me on Prozac, but no
(18:26):
pain meds.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Guess what helped more?
His pain meds.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Guess what?
Prozac also is a back door tothe pain system.
And so sometimes it helps alittle bit.
And I would say I would sharethat in these patients where
we're like, man, this dog issuper anxious.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:45):
Right?
Could it be pain?
If Prozac helps a little, that'sthe pain mans.
unknown (18:50):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Right.
Um, because you will find somuch more.
And then as you're alluding to,when you go in with your hands,
it the pain will be focal.
It will be where the pain iscoming from instead of
throughout the whole patient.
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
You mentioned that's a great point.
You mentioned going in with yourhands.
Physical exam can be a realcritical thing.
And it's interesting, people,some people don't realize that
people like yourself or myselfwho have had rehabilit
rehabilitation certification,who have had pain management
certification, sometimes have alittle bit of an leg up on
(19:24):
determining these spots.
And I often get um justyesterday, I had a dog that came
in and was referred in for backpain.
And the the veterinarian said,Oh, yeah, I'm picking up lumbar
spinal pain.
Uh, that's what's going on.
I want it to come in for rehab.
And the client said, Well, whydo I have to have a rehab exam
(19:46):
if my my veterinarian and Isaid, you know, there are times
when I just want to go over formyself.
I may want to get measurements,girth measurements of the back
legs.
There are certain things that Ican do that I like.
And that dog had a partialcruciate uh rupture in its left
knee.
And, you know, and again, it'syou I have to handle that very
(20:07):
carefully with like my petparent.
Um, and but it's you know, it'sjust interesting to see that
when you do these exams and youhave kind of this kind of leg
up, it makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
No, we hope that anything we study, we get good
at.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Uh, right.
And so I am not about to goteach French.
Nope.
Nope.
However, I have studied animalrehabilitation and pain
management.
So you're a hundred percent hitit.
And you know, to give ourselvesjust a little grace, um, right,
when animals are painful inmultiple places, it totally
makes sense that somebody whohas really good but basic
(20:47):
training and pain management andexam might pick up on one of
those, right?
As rehabbers, admit we arefairly obsessed about finding
all of the problems so we canfix all of the problems because
physical rehabilitation, becausephysical rehabilitation is all
about the whole pet.
It's about return to function.
(21:07):
And if we don't actually findall the reasons they're painful,
they only get partially better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That grumpiness only slightlygoes away.
You're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
Well, and it or it ebbs and flows.
It gets better and worse.
How many times have you heardthat?
Right?
So, yes, I I uh applaud you forfor having studied and being
careful and and precise aboutwhat you're trying to do.
That is the benefit of seeingany specialist.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And then we we often talk aboutthe diagnostics that are
involved, uh, radiographs, gateanalysis.
Um, any any thoughts on thatthat world?
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Oh, you know I do.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
That's that's why I asked, of course.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
So in my best world, if we could screen all of our
pets for arthritis when they getspated neutered, which in our
world now is an evolution,right?
Might that might be a year or ayear and a half old.
Um, right, if we could do justscreening x-rays, just one basic
hip extended x-ray, just to see.
Yep, I would advise considering,depending on the breed, it's a
(22:16):
pity, the pities.
We need to x-ray their kneestoo, right?
Because those subtle things wecould be picking up even before
truly even sensitive hands.
And and this can be done ingeneral practice as part of
wellness care, right?
So just as we would screen olderdogs for cancer, I would like us
to do basic x-rays, two elbows,one hip extended, maybe two
(22:39):
knees, and all of our spay andpatients, every single one.
Yes, even the little ones.
SPEAKER_03 (22:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
And and if this is a breed that me, you know, might
might benefit maybe like aFrenchie, maybe a spine x-ray
would be a good idea, right?
Because it tells us.
Yeah, because what would you dowith that, Mandy?
So say you get a two-year-old,let's call it a French bulldog.
Right?
Yeah.
And you know that his spine ismaybe not perfect.
(23:06):
Um, and maybe his patellas arejust a little bit on the loose
side.
What would you do differentlyfor this two-year-old dog if you
had that knowledge?
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Yeah, a lot.
You're right.
I mean, it's very, very helpful.
And it's interesting because Ialso go have to go to a place um
on these screening situationswhere I now believe that biome
should be part of every youngdog's wellness exam.
Because when you when I canidentify excess streptococcus,
or I can identify uh a dysbiosisgoing on or a vitamin D level
(23:38):
that's not correct.
Oh my God, I can make such adifference in that animal.
But then it's just one morething I've got to add along with
the Phillips.
But you're absolutely right.
These are things that I think wewill evolve into.
I really see this as, you know,the proactive part of veterinary
medicine is getting so muchbetter.
And I think people like yourselfand myself, we keep on proposing
(24:00):
this and putting it out there tothe to the ether, it's gonna
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Yes.
Well, and and slowly as we uhhave clients long term and they
become part of our our wellnesstribe, right?
And we all believe the samethings, then we start to do it
on on the regular.
So, right, so you say, okay,every six months we check their
biome, right?
Once every couple years after wehave their baseline x-rays, we
(24:27):
might x-ray them again and justsee how their body's changing
and what we can do to changethat, versus it's trying to
accept it once they're haveproblems.
Which, yes, of course, we can doall of these things.
Like we said, for older pets, wecan change lives, right?
But we have an opportunity foryears ahead of time.
(24:48):
Uh, I love that you brought upthe biome.
There is an integrative and onehealth group, meaning humans and
animals studying the biome as itrelates to pain uh at NC State
currently.
Uh I cannot wait to see.
Yeah, I can't wait to see.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yeah, we're at the University of Arizona with Dr.
Weil, who I work with quite abit.
Um, they're actually doing abeautiful study on the brain-gut
connection and the interplaybetween biome and all of the um,
you know, seizures and maniasand bipolar disease.
And and there, I mean, I have tojust tell you this one little
story because I I just talked tohim the other day.
(25:25):
There was a little girl thatcame in five years old, seizures
every single day, seizuringevery single day on four
different seizure medicines.
And they put her in the studyand did her biome and found that
she was very out of balance.
Um, C.
diff, Cperf, um, also highStreptococcus levels, and then
(25:46):
some of the other, you know,kind of unusual type bacteria
and and yeast.
And corrected her biome throughfecal microbiome transfer,
giving her good poop, guys.
That's what that means.
And she is down to once a month.
Once a month.
I mean, and you know, it's it'sso it's it's so exciting to see
(26:07):
this these things coming.
And I know they'll we'll get toincorporate these things in our
practice more and more um astime goes on.
That's why we're here.
Yep.
So we've now kind of identifiedpain.
Um, let's talk about rehab andregenerative medicine, because I
know that's huge for you, that'shuge for me.
(26:27):
Um, I love our listeners to knowwhat what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
Yeah.
Well, um, so I think this isselfishly again where I kind of
refer back to people and maybethe horses a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:41):
Um, because if we think about, if our goal is that
our pets are as healthy aspossible, that means, of course,
systemically, diet, etc., but italso means physically.
And if we think about as aspecies, who has the best
physical care, right?
Then we kind of start leaninginto like who would that be?
(27:02):
Humans and horses.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (27:04):
And then if you compare humans and horses by
percentage, it's the horses.
unknown (27:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (27:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
Because um, because we expect them to be physically
well.
Okay.
And so if we just start with thebaseline of physically well
means you're not on daily meds,anti-inflammatories, etc., to be
comfortable and you can run,jump, and play and do what you
want to do.
That takes some time to getphysically trained for that,
right?
So our humans that are likehorses are people who are in
(27:33):
sports, right?
And those are the people who getthe physical care.
And I'm not gonna talking aboutjust massage.
We all deserve massage, right?
The natural process of agingcross cross links your collagen.
So I I give you all permissionto have massage.
Okay.
So I'm talking about though, theactual physical training and
rehab.
So these young animals that wewant to be able to be at clinic,
(27:55):
say that they are maybe doingfun stuff like fly ball or
agility or you know, any kind ofcompetition sport, say they're
training to hunt, um, right, oror just even take long hikes
with you.
If we have those guys in theclinic and do their physical
training, it's rehab, but it'sactually prehab, right?
That's getting them to besymmetrical and strong.
(28:17):
That prevents injury, right?
And the crazy part is peoplewill say, Well, I take my dog
for a walk twice a day.
Well, you and I both know thatdoes not actually change the
stability muscles around thejoint.
So here's what's important aboutthat.
It's a very different movementto walk than it is to get out of
a chair, than it is to land offof a jump.
(28:41):
Right.
So this is so important becauseit means we can do physical
exercise for young animals whenthey're healthy, so they can be
healthier.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
Yes, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
Uh, and we in the horse community we know that,
right?
So oftentimes horses will behave their diagnostic x-rays
when they're three years old.
Um, you know, and then we'restarting to think, well, geez, I
don't want to have to give themanything or do anything to them.
They're young.
Okay, enter regenerativemedicine.
What if, what if we could takethe components of blood of
(29:16):
platelets that help repairtissue and put them back into
the tissues where they aredamaged.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
We can.
It's it's called platelet richrich plasma, it's called
platelet rich plasma.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
And we can get fancy and do stem cells and collagen
and all kinds of things, right?
So if we just know, if we justknow one, that we have an animal
that is in work and maybecreating damage.
I mean, we we expect a50-year-old football player to
have some arthritis, don't we?
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:47):
Like, how could there not be?
Right.
So if we just know and expectit, right?
Um, and you use some some ofthese things in your practice.
What are your favorites?
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Well, I'm doing a lot.
Um, I actually uh got turned onrecently.
Recently to PRGF, which isplatelet-rich growth factors
coming over from Spain, acompany called Endoret.
I love the responses I'm gettingwith that.
And I often I often combine itwith something like Spring or
(30:18):
some kind of cushioning agentthat I'll put in there.
I know there's a lot of them outthere.
I don't know if you're usingCinnobitin or some of those
other products.
But that's, you know, theseanimals get shockwave and then
they get these injections.
And it's been goingphenomenally.
Oh, give me an example.
Tell me about a case.
(30:38):
So little dog Jack Jack, uh,little fox um wire hair fox
terrier, bilateral cruciatetears.
Um, didn't want to go tosurgery.
He's 12 years old.
And, you know, the no matterwhat I talked about, the client
said, Nope, we're we're gonna dorehab and we're gonna do
(30:59):
whatever you think you can do tohelp my dog.
And so we, you know, did thewhole food conversation, the
biome, all of that stuff, andsupplements.
And then we uh talked aboutjoint injections.
And so dog had shockwave, doghad bilateral PRGF and spring.
(31:20):
And I just got a uh a call fromthe lady who thinks that I walk
on water, even though I told herthat I can't find the stones to
do that with.
Um, but the dog is just, I mean,he's so happy and he's doing so,
so well.
And with physical therapies,he's in rehab here, so he's
getting laser and he's gettingPEMF and he's getting underwater
(31:43):
treadmill and he's getting homeexercises.
Um, he he's he's just doinggreat.
And so that's a great, you know,piece.
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Oh, I have questions.
Can I ask questions?
Oh you you can.
SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
I don't know if I'm gonna answer them, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
Well, so is Jack Jack on medications now?
And how if so, how many comparedto when he started?
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Oh, so um when he came in, he was on uh N said, he
was on Remadil.
Uh he was on Um uh also onTramadol.
He was also on trying to thinkwhat else.
Anyway, there were three or fourthat he was taking with very
limited success.
(32:26):
And right now he's taking alittle bit of gabapentin because
he does have some anxiety uh andit lowers his, it's an
anti-anxiolytic along with painmedicine.
I don't have to worry about youknow his kidney and liver so
much with with that drug, andthat's all.
That's all he's taking.
That he gets ataquan um as asupplement.
(32:47):
He gets uh jope, he getsomega-3s, um, he has on he's
also on a little bit of myoscanine for for to help limit
myostatin uh production.
But yeah, I mean he's doingphenomenal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
Randy, I'd work with you any day.
So the process you're talkingabout, just for the listeners,
right, is this process of goingfrom pain management through
healing, actual healing.
So you don't need the painmedications anymore, right?
And supplements are designed toprovide some of the nutrition
(33:22):
that those tissues need to behealthy, right?
So this obviously, this ownerand this veterinarian that had
Jack Jack before, they weredoing everything they could to
try to make him better withmedications.
You can see it, right?
But what he really needed wasfor somebody to go in and change
his tissues.
And so there's this concept thatI will touch on lightly here,
(33:45):
right?
In that there's different kindsof pain.
Yes, right.
And so the reason therehabilitation piece is so
important is it addresses thephysical sources of pain.
And that is actually the onlyway to reset the system.
So what happens when we getpainful is that our neurologic
system takes in that informationthat we're painful, we're
(34:06):
painful, we're painful, and itbecomes like a dial on a radio,
for those of us old enough toknow what a dial on a radio is.
Right.
So we we turn up the volume ofthe pain system and it fires
faster and it fires louder thanit's supposed to.
And pretty soon the whole painsystem is ringing.
That process cannot be stoppedwithout the right medications in
(34:30):
the right order, and then alsocare of those tissues so that
they stop screaming because thebrain and then it's and the
spinal cord have that ringinggoing on.
SPEAKER_01 (34:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
And so it's this process of literally unwinding
the wind-up pain that brings usback to being able to control
the whole system again.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:50):
Right.
Um, and so that that leads meinto the second soapbox.
Um, right, you mentioned somereally oh, you mentioned some
great supplements, right?
And there are, I mean, how manysupplements are out there for
pet pain?
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Um unbelievable numbers.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
Yeah.
So how did you choose Adaquan isa favorite?
How did you choose Adaquan?
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
I um Adequan came to be, again, from the horse world,
um, when it, you know, when itwas being used there so so
frequently.
And the fact that Adequan helps,in my mind, helps um our
cartilage imbibe water to becomespongier is like, oh my God,
what does that?
I mean, I can't think of a lotof things that will do that, you
(35:34):
know?
Um, so I I've been using, Imean, uh, you know, I'm an old
guy, but I've been using Adequanfor a long time.
And um, it is definitely part ofmy protocol uh and seeing
amazing, amazing results.
SPEAKER_02 (35:49):
Amazing.
I mean, so Adequan is the onlydisease-modifying arthritis drug
that we have.
In other words, it is the onlysupplement, if you will, that
actually changes the process ofarthritis, right?
It is an anti-inflammatory, itsequesters the chemistry in
there that creates damage andpain.
(36:11):
It also, as you alluded to,pumps up the cartilage over
time.
That takes the whole series,right?
Like that's not one injection ofAdiquan.
You have to build it up overtime.
And so what's interesting is ifyou give an injection or two of
Anaquan, they feel better.
If you give a series of Adequon,they now have healthier joint
lining and cartilage.
(36:32):
Yeah, booyah.
Like, what else could we like tohave this?
Yes, right.
And so it brings up thisquestion of like, geez, you
know, it's a little moreexpensive than buying uh an
over-counter glucosamine.
Yeah, you betcha.
However, did you know?
This kind of broke my heart,Randy.
It was a systematicmeta-analysis.
(36:53):
They took 200 papers aboutglucosamine and asked this
question, does it reallyactually do anything?
And said out of all the decadesof glucosamine research, it does
it does absolutely nothing forpain.
And there are no measurablechanges from glucosamine.
(37:15):
There are some in the veterinaryworld, some small studies,
right, that are important.
NeutraMash did great work there,so I don't mean to to poo-hoo
that.
But if I'm thinking about apatient, let's go with again, a
two-year-old lab, sure, um,right, I know has elbal
arthritis, uh, we're gonna gobetter, right?
We want to use something thatactually changes the disease
(37:37):
process.
We know that it costs a littlebit more.
We also know what we get from itis much better, right?
unknown (37:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Um, and so if you had to pick two more of your
favorite evidence-basedsupplements, you mentioned a
couple, what would they be?
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
Um well, I mentioned JOPE.
Um, it's ultra collagen, youknow, I I really like the um
ultra-collagen two that's inthere and the turmeric.
Um the myos I talked aboutbecause of the really the
beautiful studies that are beingdone right now in sarcopenia
where we're losing muscle and umchronic kidney disease in cats
(38:14):
where they lose so much muscle,hyperthyroidism.
Um, so I love that product.
Um there are you know, there'ssome there's some other things
in in in Chinese medicine thatI've used, um, but those are my
main ones.
How about yourself?
Yeah, I mean, I know you havesomething on your mind because
you wouldn't have asked that.
SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
So well, I think that your listeners need to know
this.
I think that they might be outthere buying 50 supplements.
How do I know?
Because our clients come in witha basket, right?
We have the best clients on theplanet.
They are doing everything theycan, and they don't just bring
in the list, they bring in thebasket, right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
So if we are spending hundreds of dollars a
month on the wrong supplementsthat we could be spending on
joint injections, shockwave,rehab, PRP, PR, platelet rich
growth factor, like some ofthese things that actually
change the body.
Yes, what would the outcome be?
Right?
(39:13):
So I think this is criticallyimportant.
And we always get this questionwell, what's best?
So I'm asking this questionbecause I love what you're
doing.
Undernatured collagen 2 hasgreat evidence that it helps
slow the degeneration of our owncollagen.
Did you know that we break downour own collagen?
That's annoying.
Right?
So it's important.
(39:34):
It's important.
Um, so I I love UC2.
Whether it is uh dope is a goodone, turmeric has proven to be
anti-inflammatory.
Love that.
Um, so whatever form.
Myos, right?
Obviously, money muscle benefitsare important.
Um, the other one that's provenis uh tried and true, right?
Uh omega-3 fatty acids.
Um, so it turns out that thereason we have been telling you,
(39:58):
pet parents, for years to giveyour pets fish oil is because it
interrupts the production ofinflammation.
It literally is like a puzzlepiece.
It will go in there and jam thesystem so you make less
inflammation.
Amazing, right?
And both UC2 and omega-3 fattyacids have been tested against
an NSAID like Rimadil and shownto have similar effect.
(40:22):
Right?
And so, not to um take the hatoff the magic here, right?
Because Randy, you are magic.
Um, what percentage of yourpatients do you think live on
four kinds of chronic medicationfor pain?
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Um, I would say um probably my my personal ones are
after I see them or before whenthey come to me.
Yes.
Which one?
unknown (40:46):
Which one?
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Tell me tell me how that looks.
So the patients when they cometo you, what percentage of them
are on tons of medication?
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Oh, I would say easily 85 to 90 percent easily.
SPEAKER_02 (40:58):
Yeah.
And after they're in rehab forusually the process takes a
couple months, right?
You're rebuilding the body.
So go three months, three monthslater, what percentage do you
think are on all of thosechronic medications still?
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
I would say um very I mean less than five percent.
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
If we've gotten our hands on them and w they're
doing our protocol and or whatyou know what we know to have
worked, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Yeah.
And but that doesn't happen withsupplements alone, right?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
And so what would you say to people who are
hearing this and they'rethinking, man, I give my dog all
the right supplements, I justdon't, I just don't take it in a
rehab.
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
Well, I would say it's being like half pregnant.
You know, you either are oryou're not.
Um, so I tell people, I tellpeople, you know, if we really
want health span, longevity, andwellness for your pet, this
multimodal modal effect that youalluded to earlier is so
important.
And, you know, it's not justwalking them more or swimming
(42:02):
them more, it's having directionwhere you're getting um
underwater treadmill where thatthat exercise, you get 70 to 80
percent of the the pain off ofuh the weight off of that joint
in a controlled environment.
You get laser, you get PEMF, youget exercises that are given to
you.
Um this really it's just it'sjust a ticket.
(42:25):
And and I I I always I I alwaysit's hard for me a little bit to
see, like last week I had aphenomenal dog, so so beautiful.
It was 10 years old and just sopainful.
And the lady only wanted to do acouple supplements, you know,
didn't want to do Adaquan,didn't want to do rehab.
(42:46):
And, you know, so you know, Idid my job and we laid this all
out for them.
And obviously they got beautifulnotes and a discharge
instruction advising all thesethings.
And my only my only hope on thatcase is that she'll see the
light and start coming to someof the other things that that we
can do to help that dog.
Because that's all I want to do,and that's all you want to do.
(43:06):
We want to we want to make thispet comfortable.
SPEAKER_02 (43:09):
Yeah, I do you think that's that she doesn't want to
do the other things?
What do you think was theobstacle?
SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Well, I'm sure you know, I'm sure cost is always a
concern.
Um, you know, it's there, andand I can't can't lie, it's it's
tough.
When you're in a situation wheremedical medicine is out of
pocket and is not so beautifullycovered by or not beautifully
covered, I should say, by healthinsurance.
Um, you know, it's it'sdifficult for some clients.
(43:39):
And and we we try to help allthe way we can.
I mean, if they want to getsupplements online, you know,
I'm not a supplementsalesperson.
I please get them wherever youcan save money.
Um we try to help on ontherapies and whatnot too to
scale things down.
You know, we always offer the Aplan, as you know, because
that's what I feel responsiblefor.
(44:00):
But if we have to go to B and C,we do.
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
That's right.
Well, and so here's the crazything.
How many people do you think doregenerative medicine for
themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
I would say very few.
SPEAKER_02 (44:14):
And what do you think the obstacle is?
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
Um well, I think it's it's typically that they're
gonna see an orthopedic surgeonwho said this needs to be a
surgical procedure and theydon't tout uh the PRP or the
stem cells or you know, or thechondro protective agents,
whatever.
I I think that they're just notgetting the information.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
Yeah.
And even sometimes when they doget the information, right, then
what's the obstacle?
SPEAKER_00 (44:41):
Um, I think it's this well, I think it's the
practitioners bent on whatreally works and what doesn't,
or their experience.
SPEAKER_02 (44:50):
Yeah.
So it's it's always a limit.
The limitation is always what wedon't know and what we haven't
prepared for.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
Right?
Um, because I would say I thinkyou're right.
And I think the third bucket isthese are people who also have
not saved money for their healthcare, and regenerative medicine
for people is also out ofpocket.
SPEAKER_01 (45:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
And so if I had any takeaway messages to add to this
podcast, it would be that one.
It would be guys, animals, justlike people who have arthritis
that starts when they're young,are going to have medical
problems that we need to belooking for so that we're
(45:32):
actually solving a problem thatcan be solved easily, and it is
gonna cost money.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:37):
So if we save the money, we get to do the therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (45:42):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
And so that's the hardest part, I think, right,
for us as veterinarians is weget all of this knowledge.
We build this safe wellnessatmosphere, fear-free, as kind
as possible.
We study all the things.
And then what it comes down tois well, I can only do this much
because I only have this muchmoney.
SPEAKER_01 (46:02):
Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
Or because I only want to spend this much money
because this dog is how old?
Because I didn't know thisbefore.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (46:10):
Right.
And so if there's anything totake away from this, it's that,
right?
We need to be saving like wewould save for humans, right?
So my I'm not afraid to say myhealth insurance is about$350 a
month.
If I actually used all the moneyI put into my health insurance,
do you know how muchregenerative medicine I could
do?
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:29):
Yeah.
Right.
So pet insurance or no petinsurance, right?
From the day we get them, if wehave enough money and don't get
them until we do, right?
Right.
To save to save monthly fortheir health care, by the time
we need it, we get to do reallycool stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Yeah.
And, you know, I love that pointbecause I bring this up to my my
puppies and kitten people allthe time.
I said, you know, if you'relooking at uh pet insurance for
major medical, I don't have aproblem with that typically.
Although you're right, it's abig expense.
But a health savings account foryour pet would make even more
(47:08):
sense because you're not onlygenerating some uh interest, you
know, little as it could besometimes, but um, but you're
you're building on that.
And in no time you'll have fundsthat, God forbid, your dog gets
that OA diagnosis, your cat, orwhatever.
Um, then it's there.
(47:28):
So you're absolutely right.
It's such a really criticalpoint.
It's not just insurance.
Although the good thing for us,uh at least what I'm seeing is
some of the insurance companiesnow are covering some of the
integrative medicine, some ofthe rehab medicine.
We didn't have that for quite awhile.
I mean, people said, Oh, youwant to do acupuncture on my
dog, my insurance company won'tcover that.
But some of them that now do.
(47:49):
So some of them do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:51):
Yeah.
So so smart, such a smart point,right?
That we need to look at whichcompanies cover congenital
conditions.
Because the the reason theywon't cover it is because it's
pre-existing.
And I think, like I said, 80% ofanimals have arthritis that
they've had since they were ohyeah, they were born with it.
Right.
So the problem with insuranceand trying to cover the physical
(48:13):
medicine that we do is there'salmost always a loophole.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
So if you save the money, no one will ever tell you
no.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Yes.
No, you're absolutely right.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
Right.
Um, and so I'm I'm all about petinsurance and I have used it.
Um, and there are a couplecompanies I'm so grateful uh to
the animals that they, you know,they have really helped change
lives for.
SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
And we're you know, but it's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (48:35):
Yeah, it really is.
So um we're probably we'rerunning out of time, which
always um I'm so sad about.
Um I um I want to say that, youknow, I can't thank you enough
for what you do.
And, you know, you're you know,really it's it's a it's a light.
And you know, when I go out anddo my talks, um, I got a couple
(48:55):
cut cat talks coming up, whichI'm real excited about.
Um, you know, I encourage thesepeople to any subtle change that
you see in your pet, tell yourveterinary.
I mean, start start there andlet let he or she know what
you're seeing and and andhopefully they they can address
that or at least look forcausation in that situation.
(49:18):
Um, because that, you know, thispain we can prevent and manage
and mitigate.
Um, you know, these are thingsthat, you know, these pets don't
have to suffer if we can getthis early enough as we you and
I have talked.
But I also tell people, um, youknow, when I had that
12-year-old dog, that dog couldlive to 17 or 18.
I don't know that.
You don't know that.
(49:38):
And so why not have what we callhealth span and not just
longevity for this pet?
SPEAKER_02 (49:45):
I love this.
I love this.
And I will put in one last plugfor the cat.
Please.
Uh, right, because uh of ourpets, which are the animals that
live to be 20 years old?
SPEAKER_00 (49:57):
It's our felines, it's our cats.
The cats.
SPEAKER_02 (50:00):
And you're you hit it, right?
They they very rarely actuallyeven go to the vet because
they're so quiet.
SPEAKER_01 (50:05):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (50:06):
And so be mindful, right, as our pet parents and
our cat lovers, um, right, thecats get horrendous disease that
truly makes them quieter.
SPEAKER_00 (50:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
And then the opposite is also true.
If you have an excessively spicykitty, ask yourself, is there
anything I could be missing?
It's usually their teeth, theirelbows, or their back.
Because we don't brush theirteeth, right?
It's difficult, uh, and theyjump off of things for a living,
(50:38):
right?
So if you think about it, right?
Again, if you are a uh a stuntman for movies, right?
How good do you think your kneesare by the time you've done this
for 10 years, right?
So remember, cats are veryspecial.
We know they're aliens, butthey're also stunt doubles for
movies.
So they need they need regularevaluation that is real.
(50:59):
That means you have to bringthem in, guys.
Please bring in your cats.
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Yep.
Thank you so, so much.
Um, this is always such apleasure.
Um, I don't know if you guyslistening understand this, but
it's just as much fun for me andMarie to do this as for you to
listen to what's going on.
So if you have questions, Marie,talk about your site, your
website again if people want toask questions or get more
(51:23):
information.
SPEAKER_02 (51:24):
Yes, I'm mostly doing veterinary education right
now.
And so I'm going to redirectthem mostly to you.
However, um, the website ishelpspotrun.com.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
It's a wonderful website, guys, if you haven't
seen it.
And then ours is Dr.
Randy Petfet.
Uh, there's a newsletter,there's podcasts, there's
YouTube, there's God knows what.
I mean, videos we're making.
Um, and hopefully we'll be outon the speaking circuit.
Um, because I'm more directedtoward the pet parent.
I, you know, I love the factthat you can reach out to the us
(51:55):
as veterinarians.
And the disappointment for me isI started a long time ago on
this integrative track, and itwas, I was a charlatan.
I mean, it was really difficultto go to a veterinary meeting
and talk to veterinarians abouteven things like B12 or, you
know, whatever, easy stuff, letalone biome and and and the and
(52:16):
and allergy testing and thiskind of thing.
So, anyway, um, thank you foryour job because we we all need
to get educated, especially inour profession.
And guys, I think you can seethat Dr.
Marie and I are very optimisticabout this subject.
We can make a difference in yourcat and dog.
Um, just be off be aware of it,observe, talk to your
(52:39):
veterinarian, and if you're notgetting anywhere, get to
somebody else who who can maybelook at it a little closer.
SPEAKER_02 (52:46):
Yeah, I think that's brilliant.
And we're gonna share someresources with them, right?
So the things to know where tofind a rehab veterinarian.
We can give you a couplewebsites where you can find your
own locally.
SPEAKER_01 (52:57):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (52:58):
Uh, is my dog overweight, my cat overweight,
and my it is this maybecontributing to over time what
they might have for healthproblems, diabetes, arthritis,
etc.
Right.
And then does my animal havepain?
SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (53:12):
Right.
And so we'll make sure you havethose references and then on my
website, probably the best thingis just an example of those
videos.
Um right.
So you have a good description.
I know you guys can do it anddon't stress out.
If you can get any video,especially with cats, bring it
to your vet just for even yourannual wellness, right?
Just to do, just to do ascreening because everything you
(53:33):
see at home will be so muchbetter than what we can see when
they're excited and nervous inthe clinic.
SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
Absolutely.
Well, my my my prayers are thatyou you and I run into each
other in one of these meetingsor somewhere that we can see
each other.
And obviously, you know, you'realways welcome to Tucson.
Um, I actually have my rehab umuh certified tech coming to
Colorado that I need to ask.
I'll I'll text you about it.
But she'd like to see the clinicif you're gonna be around or you
know, get some ideas of where tovisit because she'll be in
(54:00):
Denver.
So we'll talk about that.
Thank you.
That's all I can do.
Pleasure, Randy.
From the bottom of my heart.
I really appreciate it.
Have a good time.
Take care.
Thank you for all you do.
Absolutely, you too.
Thanks.
Bye.
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