November 4, 2025 • 21 mins
We visit Delhi, Agra, and Mumbai with linguist and educator Dr. Jilani Warsi.
Old Delhi draws us into the Red Fort’s vast red sandstone walls, the bustle of Jama Masjid, and the color and flavors of Chandni Chowk where chai, sweets, and silks leave their mark.
We balance that with New Delhi’s calm and the Lotus Temple’s open welcome to all faiths, then look upward at Qutub Minar’s 12th-century tower, a vertical timeline of early rule and artistry.
Along the way, we share on-the-ground advice: why to skip driving yourself, how to group sites to save time, and where an evening light-and-sound show still brings the past to life.
Agra reframes the journey around love and power. The Taj Mahal becomes more than a postcard as dawn light turns marble rosy and the close-in inlay work reveals delicate stone flowers.
Across the Yamuna River, Agra Fort holds Shah Jahan’s final vantage point, a story you can feel when a small mirror catches the mausoleum’s glow. A short hop leads to Fatehpur Sikri, where Hindu and Islamic design blend into one living compound, proof that style can be a bridge across belief.
Mumbai changes the tempo again: Marine Drive’s night shimmer, the Bandra-Worli Sea Link stretching like a lit ribbon, and the gravitational pull of Bollywood’s studios and theaters. We leave the skyline by boat for Elephanta Island, where ancient cave temples to Shiva offer a cool breath and timeless stonework.
Between stops, we chase flavor—kebabs, biryani, and samosas, and share simple ways to eat well and safely where the locals line up.
Whether you’re planning your first India itinerary, refining a return, or just enjoying armchair travel, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so others can find it too.
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Dr. Jilani Warsi, born a two-hour drive from Mahabodhi Temple in Gaya where Buddha reached Nirvana, grew up in a multilingual environment and teaches at Queensborough Community College in New York. He curates English language lessons for native and non-native speakers under the moniker of DrEnglish, on YouTube, @DrAmericanEnglish. He is also a shutterbug and a student of life.
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Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to dozens of guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles. Contact her at placesirememberlealane.com
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Our award-winning travel podcast, Places I Remember with Lea Lane, has produced over 120 travel episodes! New episodes drop on the first Tuesday of the month, on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:26):
You may be surprised to hear that the Republic of
India is the seventh largestcountry by area, and since 2023,
the most populous country inthe world.
India is also one of theworld's oldest cultures,
spanning from ancientcivilizations to the modern
republic.
It's marked by major empiressuch as the Mughal Empire,
religious developments such asHinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism,
(00:50):
and a long struggle forindependence from British rule
led by Mahatma Gandhi.
It culminated in the nation'sestablishment in 1947, and India
is now the world's mostpopulous democracy.
When you're traveling in acountry with so many historic
layers and cultures, it'sespecially helpful to learn
about some of the history beforeyou arrive.
(01:11):
Geographically, India rangesfrom the Himalayan Mountains in
the north to the tropicalpeninsula in the south,
surrounded by the Arabian Sea,Bay of Bengal, and Indian Ocean.
India is known for immensecultural, ethnic, and religious
diversity with over 22 officiallanguages.
Its economic growth in the lastdecades has been rapid, and
(01:32):
it's recently achievedsignificant progress in reducing
extreme poverty and expandinginfrastructure and access to
basic services.
India is a feast of senses andhistory and geography, and a
trip there can be daunting.
You'll probably get around byextensive train and plane
networks, but you know, drivingis okay.
It's not for the faint ofheart.
(01:53):
Locals seem to know how toweave through it all.
As there's so much to cover, inthis episode, we'll concentrate
on just a few of India's mostpopular tourist sites to give
you a taste of what not to miss.
Our guest is Jilani Warsi.
He was born in India.
He's written dozens of booksand research publications.
He's got a PhD in linguistics.
(02:15):
He speaks several languages.
He's taught at Harvard andcurrently he's in New York
teaching at QueensboroughCommunity College.
Welcome, Jelani Warsi, toPlaces I Remember.
Jilani Warsi (02:25):
Thank you.
Thank you, Lea.
Lea Lane (02:27):
Well, as you know, a traveler can spend years
traveling and discovering India.
And let's start with Delhi,India's capital.
It's a massive metropolitanarea in the country's north.
What are some of the sites inDelhi that a traveler shouldn't
miss?
Jilani Warsi (02:39):
So, first of all, before I even begin, I want to
let our listeners know thatthere are two Delhi.
There's Old Delhi and there'sNew Delhi, right?
Yeah.
So the Old Delhi, travelers areinto history, they really want
to explore the uh quintessentialOld Delhi with all its cultural
activities, architecture.
The old Delhi has one landmarkthat's not to be missed.
(03:02):
It's called the Jama Masjits,also the Jama Mosque, which was
built by an emperor.
And the area around it, theyhave street foods, local
delicacies.
Most travelers are into food.
They want to try out somethingnew, something different.
So Jama Mosque is one of theplaces.
But the one landmark thatstands out is called the Red
Fort.
Beautiful Red Fort, which wasbuilt by Shah Jahan, the same
(03:25):
Mughal emperor who built the TajMahal in Agra.
I will get to that in a second.
Yes.
So the Red Fort was built in1648.
Also was the seat of Mughalpower until 1857.
Akbar the Great and his sonHumayu, they did business and
they met with their ministersand people would come.
The Mughal emperor would hearthem out and then make
(03:46):
decisions.
The Red Fort has a stunningstructure.
Tall red sandstone walls coversan area of more than two square
kilometers.
It's huge.
I mean, if a person walks, theycan get tired.
The entirety of the Red Fort iscrescent-shaped and surrounded
by a moat.
There is a main entrance calledthe Lahore Gate, faces towards
(04:08):
Lahore in Pakistan.
Visitors reach Hatha Chalk, a17th century covered bazaar
where items such as silks,jewelry, gems, and silverware
can be purchased.
Lea Lane (04:18):
Yes, I have to add, I did shop there, and I think in
all of India I found more thereto bring home than anywhere
else.
It's a wonderful place to shop.
And it feels like part ofIndia.
The smells are amazing, thecolors are so vibrant.
You can't miss it.
That's a must.
Jilani Warsi (04:34):
So the Red Fort also has a light and sound show
in the evening after the sungoes down.
It's a unique show.
I don't know of many placesthat have a light and sound
show.
Basically, a reenactment of thetimes of the British Raj.
Lea Lane (04:48):
Very good tip because many places have closed their
light shows for some reason,maybe expenses.
I don't know.
So that's a wonderful thing toknow about.
I think if people can fit thatin, not to miss.
Jilani Warsi (04:59):
Stay there for a few hours.
Nobad Khana, Diwaneam, the hallof public audience where the
Mughal Emperor would sit, watchthe light and sound show.
So that's the uh the red fort,it's iconic, it's a landmark,
and that's built in New Delhi.
The Old Delhi is different.
There is a place, Lea, you mayhave gone there, it's called
Channi Chak.
Lea Lane (05:19):
Yes.
Jilani Warsi (05:20):
You remember, right?
Lea Lane (05:21):
Bazaar, yes.
Jilani Warsi (05:22):
The bazaar is very, very popular where
tourists flock, even the locals,they would go there, try out
the local delicacies, sweets, uhchai, you know, the milk tea.
Here in America, when you saytea, you're thinking green tea
mostly, you know, without milkand sugar.
Go to Channi Chak for the chaiand then the dessert.
There's Kutab Minar, which isin Meharoli, which is quite a
(05:45):
distance from New Delhi.
Kutab Minar is the India'stallest minaret.
There's a minaret in Meharoli.
It's also now a UNESCO WorldHeritage Site that attracts many
international visitors.
And one can even climb to thetop for the breathtaking views
of the surrounding area.
It was completed in the 12thcentury.
It has five-story tower risesmore than 70 meters and is
(06:09):
covered with intricate carvingsfeaturing the history of Kutub,
the Mughal king, and that's whythe minaret is named after him.
It's called Kutub Minar.
There is just so many places.
It being the capital of India,parliament where the president
meets with the politicians.
There is this Baha'i temple.
I'm not sure if you've beenthere earlier.
The Lotus Temple is called.
Lea Lane (06:30):
Yes, the Lotus Temple.
Absolutely.
Jilani Warsi (06:33):
Magnificent.
It's this house of worship.
What I like about them is thatanybody can go.
People of any faith, and theyhave books and contemporary
religion.
They can read, they can sit andmeditate.
It's a beautiful structure.
It was built in 1986.
And just so that people know,it has attracted more than
70 million visitors.
Lea Lane (06:54):
Wow. Baha'i Temple, also in Israel.
It's a very interestingbuilding as well.
Jilani Warsi (06:59):
Right, right.
Lea Lane (07:00):
Capital of the country, way, way, way back.
It's fascinating.
I just want to mention thatclose by, not so far, maybe 200
kilometers or so southeast ofDelhi, is Agra on the banks of
the Yamana River.
There is one of the greatstructures of the world, the Taj
Mahal, which was built in 1632through 1648.
(07:22):
It's a white marble mausoleumbuilt by Mughal Emperor Shah
Jahan, who you mentionedearlier, for his wife Mumtaz
Mahal.
Why do you feel it's consideredsuch a masterpiece?
Jilani Warsi (07:34):
Great question, Lea.
I looked up other marvels ofarchitecture around the world.
This building was built tocommemorate love.
And I haven't come across anybuildings that were built for
love.
Like all these kings and theirvictory and immortalizing
themselves.
It's a beautiful story thattravelers should know.
Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal,they were married and she was
(07:55):
bedridden.
She was sick, she was dying.
And she asked Shah Jahan to dosomething, right?
Something very special so thatthe coming generations would
learn about their love.
It took 20 years to build a TajMahal, so on the banks of the
river Jamuna.
It's iconic, rightly said, andit received, I don't know,
millions, millions of visitorsto the city of Agra everywhere.
(08:16):
Breathtaking.
Every bit as incredible as youwould, you know.
Lea Lane (08:20):
Yes, I think it's even better.
It's even better than youbecause when you look closely at
the marble, it's embedded withprecious and semi-precious
stones.
And each part of it, if youcome up very close, it's a work
of art.
So simple, and it's a beauty.
And as you said, it's radiateswith this feeling of love.
So I think you're absolutelyright.
Simplicity.
Jilani Warsi (08:41):
Gorgeous.
Lovers go there, marriedcouples go there, and they
embrace each other and they cry.
They get, you know, goosebumps.
Lea Lane (08:46):
I have one suggestion because I went in the afternoon,
it was very crowded, and then Igot up very early in the
morning the next day, right whenit opened, when the sun was
hitting it, and it was all kindof pinkish golden, and there
were very few people at thattime.
Then this was a long while ago.
Maybe people have figured thisout.
But I would say it's worth itto find a time in the morning if
you can get up real early, andit's more beautiful even then
(09:10):
because there aren't so manypeople around.
And the other thing, and maybeyou can address this, there's a
fake Taj Mahal in that area thatsome people go to and they
don't realize it's not the realone.
Jilani Warsi (09:21):
It's not the real well, it's nowhere near as
beautiful as the Taj Mahal.
It's a fake Taj, but that'sthat's interesting that you
should bring this up.
And I agree.
I mean, you know, at the crackof dawn, if people get there
very early in the morning, youknow, they avoid the crowd and
they can walk the grounds.
I mean, there's so many placesin within that area now.
Taj Mahal is the centerpiece,but there are other little
(09:41):
buildings around it.
Taj Mahal, I mean you've seenit in history books and
postcards and social media.
Lea Lane (09:48):
There are two more places in that area that I
visited that we should brieflymention.
One is the Agra Fort, built byEmperor Akbar, and it's also on
the river, and it's also aUNESCO World Heritage Site, and
it was the main residence of theemperors until 1638.
And like the Red Fort, it is ared sandstone and very, very
beautiful.
Jilani Warsi (10:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
You took my words that I wasjust gonna say, okay, you can't
you can't do the Taj Mahalwithout mentioning the Agra
Fort.
After the fall of Shah Jahan,his own son rebelled against him
and kept him under housearrest.
And Shah Jahan asked him to puthim in the Agra Fort because
there's a beautiful view of theTaj Mahal from there.
(10:28):
That's how much he loved hiswife.
The son honored his request andhe put him in a room.
So you could go there if you goon a guided tour or you can
find it by yourself.
There is a room which has awindow looking out at the uh Taj
Mahal from there.
Shah Jahan would position hisbed there, he would sleep.
First thing in the morning, hewould look at the Taj Mahal.
Lea Lane (10:49):
Wow.
Lovely to go in that room andthink of him doing that.
Jilani Warsi (10:52):
Right.
But it's actually even moreinteresting.
So when he was in bed, when hewent to bed and he slept, he put
a broken piece of mirror thatwas stuck in the wall.
When he was lying in his bed,he was about to fall asleep.
He would see an image of theTaj Mal in the mirror.
Lea Lane (11:07):
Wow.
Jilani Warsi (11:07):
The tour guide bring like a little piece of
mirror, they put it in the wall,and then you could see
centuries old red sandstonefortress that was once the
imperial city for a successionof Mughal rulers.
This is the most extraordinarybuilding.
Jahagi Mahal, I'm not sure ifyou had a chance to go there.
It's also a massive palace thatblends stunning Hindu-inspired
(11:28):
features with Central Asianarchitectural elements.
Lea Lane (11:35):
It's a small city, Fatehpur Sikri, just west of.
Again, founded by a16th-century Mughal Empire.
What's so special about thatlittle city?
Fatehpur Sikri.
Jilani Warsi (11:45):
Yeah, Fatehpur Sikri, as you said, is not too
far away from the Agra Fort orthe Taj Mahal.
It's the structure of FatehpurSikri, which is famous.
There is a pond inside theFatehpur Sikri structure.
Young people, younger people,even the locals, you know, the
brave hearts, they jump from thetop of it.
(12:06):
They dive into the pond.
Lea Lane (12:09):
I don't recommend that.
unknown (12:10):
Okay.
Jilani Warsi (12:12):
Unless they are, you know, daredevils.
Then yeah, sure.
But it's a small city, as yousaid, in northern India, and
it's that red sandstonebuilding, just like the Agra
Fort.
Swata for Swikri is thePulandarwaza in Urdu.
Pulan means high.
Lea Lane (12:28):
That's the big gate, right?
The entrance.
Jilani Warsi (12:30):
That's the big gate, really, really tall.
It's the entrance to JamaMasjid Mosque.
So most tourists, when they gothere, they enter and they walk
up to the Jama Masjid Mosque.
Just the same Jama Masjid in uhold area.
Jama means collective, andmasjid means a mosque.
So people go therecollectively, like not
(12:51):
individually, though one can gothere, but in groups of people,
they go and then they pray.
Near Fatehpur Sikri is themarble tomb of Salem Chishti.
It's called Diwanik Has Hall.
It has a carved central pillar.
Jyodah Bhai's palace is a mixof Hindu and Mughal style.
Jodah, by the way, is veryinteresting.
Akbar the Great, the Mughalemperor, he married a Hindu
(13:13):
woman when her name was Jodabai.
And he was Muslim.
And so that is how secular hewas.
He's setting a good example forIndia.
But look, the king can marry aHindu.
And throughout his life, hehonored his wife's religion.
So they built a temple insidethe palace.
That's another love story,right?
And she loved it because therewas no pressure on her to
(13:36):
convert to Islam.
She got up and she offered hermorning prayers.
So you will see both.
It's a very nice mix of Hinduand Mughal style.
So some of the architecturewill remind you of Islamic
architect, and then also there'sHindu architecture, too.
Next to the five-story punt onethat overlooks the site.
In the good old times, it wouldtake like six hours to get to
(13:57):
Agra from Delhi.
But now they have built ahighway and it takes just an
hour.
Lea Lane (14:01):
That's interesting.
I talked about driving earlier.
Trains have been the mode oftransportation for for many,
many years.
Because the highways maybehaven't in the past been up to
speed, so to speak.
What do you have to say aboutdriving in India?
I know I've been on the roadthere and it is daunting.
And I personally don'trecommend driving.
I recommend if you can getsomebody to drive you, but is it
(14:22):
better now?
I haven't been in a littlewhile.
Jilani Warsi (14:25):
No, the population has grown like tremendously.
I think it's even worse.
I mean, yes, the government hasbuilt lots of roads and
bridges.
Just like you, I don'trecommend driving.
If one is bold enough orcourageous enough, one could
drive from New Delhi to Agra.
Lea Lane (14:42):
Let me just add the other major city that people
think about, Mumbai.
It used to be called Bombay.
It's densely populated on thewest coast.
It's a financial center.
It's India's largest city.
It's a little more modern intempo.
What's not to miss?
What would you say?
Jilani Warsi (14:58):
Bollywood, one of the largest movie-making
industries.
Lea Lane (15:02):
Because of that, there are lovely luxury hotels and
restaurants.
Jilani Warsi (15:06):
This city is renamed as Mumbai because Bombay
is the name that the Britishgive, the town.
People would come from all overIndia to see this movie stars'
houses or their mansions ortheir palaces.
And they come out.
They have a balcony, the starscome out in the morning.
Oh, how nice.
People would gather and thenthey would get he would just
wait.
Lea Lane (15:28):
Okay.
That's very good.
They had a wonderful tour whereyou would go to this beautiful
old movie theater and you'd havedinner, and then they'd show a
beautiful Bollywood film, andsome of the stars would come out
there too.
It's a wonderful way toemphasize industry there.
Jilani Warsi (15:43):
Oh, absolutely.
So Mumbai is known for thestardom, you know, show
business.
So people go there for variousreasons.
You know, movie bus would go,and there's an area in Bombay
called Film City.
Okay, where they have studioswhen they're doing indoor
shootings, you know, not anoutdoor location.
Then they go to the film cityand enjoy, you know, just seeing
(16:05):
the uh statues and posters oftheir favorite movie stars.
It's great.
You probably know this, Lea,Marine Drive.
So I recommend just hiring acab, getting a taxi driver.
But driving across the BandraWorldly ceiling, this is one of
the most iconic sites.
And it really comes to life atnight because it's all lit up.
(16:25):
It's a gateway.
Lea Lane (16:26):
You're talking about the gateway arch, the big
gateway architecture.
There you go.
It's a modern, semi-modern forIndia, a hub, right?
On the waterfront.
Jilani Warsi (16:35):
Right.
It has the most impressiveviews of the Bandra Worldly
ceiling.
The Bandra Fort.
It's a historic watchtower bythe Portuguese in 1640.
So the way to get to the BandraFort is through the Marine
Drive.
At night, the bridge lights upspectacular colors.
Lea Lane (16:52):
Modern India.
But there is one place inMumbai that I went to that I
really was impressed with,Elephanta Island, the cave
temples there, dedicated to theHindu god Shiva.
If you take a little boat tothe island, to those caves, with
the carvings.
Jilani Warsi (17:05):
I agree.
Unfortunately, it doesn't getmuch press.
Lea Lane (17:26):
It's the food you'd eat at an Indian restaurant only
from a street vendor.
And it's similar.
We all are familiar with thedelicious uh curries
and tandoori chicken, butthey're on a stick where it's
easier to eat.
Jilani Warsi (17:39):
Right.
And not to mention the biryani,which is like the stick.
The rice, yes.
We can thank the Mughals forbringing it to India.
Lea Lane (17:46):
Yes, I always think people in India eat Indian food
every day!
Jilani Warsi (17:50):
That's true.
That's true.
But I think those of us, thoseare travelers, US travelers who
go to Indian restaurant, theyprobably already know what
Samosa is.
Yeah.
Samosa is this triangularfritter, and it's so amazing
that one could stuff it witheither mashed potatoes or even
ground meat.
You could find that too.
It's rather cheap, you know,like maybe not even five rupees.
(18:12):
Right.
Which is like 10 cents orsomething.
Right.
Very inexpensive.
But I strongly recommend enjoytrying out samosas.
Lea Lane (18:22):
Delicious food is part of India, the sensual part.
It's everything is sensualthere.
You the colors and the smellsand the sights and the tastes.
You have to really enjoy all ofit to get the feel.
So much wonderful food andwonderful sights.
And obviously, we can't dojustice to it in one session.
(18:42):
So what we're going to do forIndia is have a second part
where we discuss sacred sitesand festivals and the north
country, which is the hillcountry, and the south, which is
amazing, the waterways andwonderful cities and cultures.
So we're going to have Jilanicome back for that.
We'll look forward to that.
But meanwhile, the name of thepodcast is Places I Remember.
(19:06):
So Jilani, would you share withus a special memory of India?
Jilani Warsi (19:11):
Sure.
You've already mentioned thatearlier.
I think Mahabhodi Temple inBuddhagaya, which is from my
birthplace, Patnais, about anhour.
So it's not that far away.
It's the temple where theBuddha reached Nirvana, where he
was enlightened.
So there is a path after hebecame enlightened where he
(19:32):
walked back and forth.
This was called the Lotus Walk.
Yes.
Right?
And so people go there, andthere is still a banyan tree
under which he sat and meditatedfor a long time.
And I went there, I went therewith my family, and I lucked out
because that happened to be ahuge congregation of monks from
all over the world, not justIndian monks.
(19:54):
So they were all lyingprostrate, they're praying, they
were chanting the sutra.
It truly was very surreal.
I wasn't expecting that becauseyou usually go, you see the
Bodhi temple, and it's beenyears, but I'll never forget
they're wearing their robes,heads shaved, and all, and
they're all praying togetherlike thousands of Buddhist
(20:15):
monks.
So it was a very fortunate dayfor me, and I will never forget
that to go and just sit underthe tree.
The original tree is gonebecause thousands of years left,
but they planted somethingelse, another banyan tree, and
it's all grown up now.
It's beautiful.
So Buddhaka, if you happen tobe in the state of Bihar, that's
the only place you want to be.
Lea Lane (20:36):
We'll be talking more about, as I said, all the
interesting aspects of bothHinduism and Buddhism, which
began in India.
So thank you so much, Dr.
Jilani Warsi, professor andlanguage expert, for your
suggestions and insights andreally wonderful remembrances
about your native country.
(20:56):
You've given us a taste of whatmakes India a destination for
world travelers, one of thegreatest.
And we hope to have you backsoon to cover more about it, the
North, the South customsfestivals and all that.
We look forward to it.
Thanks again.
Jilani Warsi (21:10):
Thanks so much.
You may be surprised to hear that the Republic of
India is the seventh largestcountry by area, and since 2023,
the most populous country inthe world.
India is also one of theworld's oldest cultures,
spanning from ancientcivilizations to the modern
republic.
It's marked by major empiressuch as the Mughal Empire,
religious developments such asHinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism,
(00:50):
and a long struggle forindependence from British rule
led by Mahatma Gandhi.
It culminated in the nation'sestablishment in 1947, and India
is now the world's mostpopulous democracy.
When you're traveling in acountry with so many historic
layers and cultures, it'sespecially helpful to learn
about some of the history beforeyou arrive.
(01:11):
Geographically, India rangesfrom the Himalayan Mountains in
the north to the tropicalpeninsula in the south,
surrounded by the Arabian Sea,Bay of Bengal, and Indian Ocean.
India is known for immensecultural, ethnic, and religious
diversity with over 22 officiallanguages.
Its economic growth in the lastdecades has been rapid, and
(01:32):
it's recently achievedsignificant progress in reducing
extreme poverty and expandinginfrastructure and access to
basic services.
India is a feast of senses andhistory and geography, and a
trip there can be daunting.
You'll probably get around byextensive train and plane
networks, but you know, drivingis okay.
It's not for the faint ofheart.
(01:53):
Locals seem to know how toweave through it all.
As there's so much to cover, inthis episode, we'll concentrate
on just a few of India's mostpopular tourist sites to give
you a taste of what not to miss.
Our guest is Jilani Warsi.
He was born in India.
He's written dozens of booksand research publications.
He's got a PhD in linguistics.
(02:15):
He speaks several languages.
He's taught at Harvard andcurrently he's in New York
teaching at QueensboroughCommunity College.
Welcome, Jelani Warsi, toPlaces I Remember.
Jilani Warsi (02:25):
Thank you.
Thank you, Lea.
Lea Lane (02:27):
Well, as you know, a traveler can spend years
traveling and discovering India.
And let's start with Delhi,India's capital.
It's a massive metropolitanarea in the country's north.
What are some of the sites inDelhi that a traveler shouldn't
miss?
Jilani Warsi (02:39):
So, first of all, before I even begin, I want to
let our listeners know thatthere are two Delhi.
There's Old Delhi and there'sNew Delhi, right?
Yeah.
So the Old Delhi, travelers areinto history, they really want
to explore the uh quintessentialOld Delhi with all its cultural
activities, architecture.
The old Delhi has one landmarkthat's not to be missed.
(03:02):
It's called the Jama Masjits,also the Jama Mosque, which was
built by an emperor.
And the area around it, theyhave street foods, local
delicacies.
Most travelers are into food.
They want to try out somethingnew, something different.
So Jama Mosque is one of theplaces.
But the one landmark thatstands out is called the Red
Fort.
Beautiful Red Fort, which wasbuilt by Shah Jahan, the same
(03:25):
Mughal emperor who built the TajMahal in Agra.
I will get to that in a second.
Yes.
So the Red Fort was built in1648.
Also was the seat of Mughalpower until 1857.
Akbar the Great and his sonHumayu, they did business and
they met with their ministersand people would come.
The Mughal emperor would hearthem out and then make
(03:46):
decisions.
The Red Fort has a stunningstructure.
Tall red sandstone walls coversan area of more than two square
kilometers.
It's huge.
I mean, if a person walks, theycan get tired.
The entirety of the Red Fort iscrescent-shaped and surrounded
by a moat.
There is a main entrance calledthe Lahore Gate, faces towards
(04:08):
Lahore in Pakistan.
Visitors reach Hatha Chalk, a17th century covered bazaar
where items such as silks,jewelry, gems, and silverware
can be purchased.
Lea Lane (04:18):
Yes, I have to add, I did shop there, and I think in
all of India I found more thereto bring home than anywhere
else.
It's a wonderful place to shop.
And it feels like part ofIndia.
The smells are amazing, thecolors are so vibrant.
You can't miss it.
That's a must.
Jilani Warsi (04:34):
So the Red Fort also has a light and sound show
in the evening after the sungoes down.
It's a unique show.
I don't know of many placesthat have a light and sound
show.
Basically, a reenactment of thetimes of the British Raj.
Lea Lane (04:48):
Very good tip because many places have closed their
light shows for some reason,maybe expenses.
I don't know.
So that's a wonderful thing toknow about.
I think if people can fit thatin, not to miss.
Jilani Warsi (04:59):
Stay there for a few hours.
Nobad Khana, Diwaneam, the hallof public audience where the
Mughal Emperor would sit, watchthe light and sound show.
So that's the uh the red fort,it's iconic, it's a landmark,
and that's built in New Delhi.
The Old Delhi is different.
There is a place, Lea, you mayhave gone there, it's called
Channi Chak.
Lea Lane (05:19):
Yes.
Jilani Warsi (05:20):
You remember, right?
Lea Lane (05:21):
Bazaar, yes.
Jilani Warsi (05:22):
The bazaar is very, very popular where
tourists flock, even the locals,they would go there, try out
the local delicacies, sweets, uhchai, you know, the milk tea.
Here in America, when you saytea, you're thinking green tea
mostly, you know, without milkand sugar.
Go to Channi Chak for the chaiand then the dessert.
There's Kutab Minar, which isin Meharoli, which is quite a
(05:45):
distance from New Delhi.
Kutab Minar is the India'stallest minaret.
There's a minaret in Meharoli.
It's also now a UNESCO WorldHeritage Site that attracts many
international visitors.
And one can even climb to thetop for the breathtaking views
of the surrounding area.
It was completed in the 12thcentury.
It has five-story tower risesmore than 70 meters and is
(06:09):
covered with intricate carvingsfeaturing the history of Kutub,
the Mughal king, and that's whythe minaret is named after him.
It's called Kutub Minar.
There is just so many places.
It being the capital of India,parliament where the president
meets with the politicians.
There is this Baha'i temple.
I'm not sure if you've beenthere earlier.
The Lotus Temple is called.
Lea Lane (06:30):
Yes, the Lotus Temple.
Absolutely.
Jilani Warsi (06:33):
Magnificent.
It's this house of worship.
What I like about them is thatanybody can go.
People of any faith, and theyhave books and contemporary
religion.
They can read, they can sit andmeditate.
It's a beautiful structure.
It was built in 1986.
And just so that people know,it has attracted more than
70 million visitors.
Lea Lane (06:54):
Wow. Baha'i Temple, also in Israel.
It's a very interestingbuilding as well.
Jilani Warsi (06:59):
Right, right.
Lea Lane (07:00):
Capital of the country, way, way, way back.
It's fascinating.
I just want to mention thatclose by, not so far, maybe 200
kilometers or so southeast ofDelhi, is Agra on the banks of
the Yamana River.
There is one of the greatstructures of the world, the Taj
Mahal, which was built in 1632through 1648.
(07:22):
It's a white marble mausoleumbuilt by Mughal Emperor Shah
Jahan, who you mentionedearlier, for his wife Mumtaz
Mahal.
Why do you feel it's consideredsuch a masterpiece?
Jilani Warsi (07:34):
Great question, Lea.
I looked up other marvels ofarchitecture around the world.
This building was built tocommemorate love.
And I haven't come across anybuildings that were built for
love.
Like all these kings and theirvictory and immortalizing
themselves.
It's a beautiful story thattravelers should know.
Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal,they were married and she was
(07:55):
bedridden.
She was sick, she was dying.
And she asked Shah Jahan to dosomething, right?
Something very special so thatthe coming generations would
learn about their love.
It took 20 years to build a TajMahal, so on the banks of the
river Jamuna.
It's iconic, rightly said, andit received, I don't know,
millions, millions of visitorsto the city of Agra everywhere.
(08:16):
Breathtaking.
Every bit as incredible as youwould, you know.
Lea Lane (08:20):
Yes, I think it's even better.
It's even better than youbecause when you look closely at
the marble, it's embedded withprecious and semi-precious
stones.
And each part of it, if youcome up very close, it's a work
of art.
So simple, and it's a beauty.
And as you said, it's radiateswith this feeling of love.
So I think you're absolutelyright.
Simplicity.
Jilani Warsi (08:41):
Gorgeous.
Lovers go there, marriedcouples go there, and they
embrace each other and they cry.
They get, you know, goosebumps.
Lea Lane (08:46):
I have one suggestion because I went in the afternoon,
it was very crowded, and then Igot up very early in the
morning the next day, right whenit opened, when the sun was
hitting it, and it was all kindof pinkish golden, and there
were very few people at thattime.
Then this was a long while ago.
Maybe people have figured thisout.
But I would say it's worth itto find a time in the morning if
you can get up real early, andit's more beautiful even then
(09:10):
because there aren't so manypeople around.
And the other thing, and maybeyou can address this, there's a
fake Taj Mahal in that area thatsome people go to and they
don't realize it's not the realone.
Jilani Warsi (09:21):
It's not the real well, it's nowhere near as
beautiful as the Taj Mahal.
It's a fake Taj, but that'sthat's interesting that you
should bring this up.
And I agree.
I mean, you know, at the crackof dawn, if people get there
very early in the morning, youknow, they avoid the crowd and
they can walk the grounds.
I mean, there's so many placesin within that area now.
Taj Mahal is the centerpiece,but there are other little
(09:41):
buildings around it.
Taj Mahal, I mean you've seenit in history books and
postcards and social media.
Lea Lane (09:48):
There are two more places in that area that I
visited that we should brieflymention.
One is the Agra Fort, built byEmperor Akbar, and it's also on
the river, and it's also aUNESCO World Heritage Site, and
it was the main residence of theemperors until 1638.
And like the Red Fort, it is ared sandstone and very, very
beautiful.
Jilani Warsi (10:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
You took my words that I wasjust gonna say, okay, you can't
you can't do the Taj Mahalwithout mentioning the Agra
Fort.
After the fall of Shah Jahan,his own son rebelled against him
and kept him under housearrest.
And Shah Jahan asked him to puthim in the Agra Fort because
there's a beautiful view of theTaj Mahal from there.
(10:28):
That's how much he loved hiswife.
The son honored his request andhe put him in a room.
So you could go there if you goon a guided tour or you can
find it by yourself.
There is a room which has awindow looking out at the uh Taj
Mahal from there.
Shah Jahan would position hisbed there, he would sleep.
First thing in the morning, hewould look at the Taj Mahal.
Lea Lane (10:49):
Wow.
Lovely to go in that room andthink of him doing that.
Jilani Warsi (10:52):
Right.
But it's actually even moreinteresting.
So when he was in bed, when hewent to bed and he slept, he put
a broken piece of mirror thatwas stuck in the wall.
When he was lying in his bed,he was about to fall asleep.
He would see an image of theTaj Mal in the mirror.
Lea Lane (11:07):
Wow.
Jilani Warsi (11:07):
The tour guide bring like a little piece of
mirror, they put it in the wall,and then you could see
centuries old red sandstonefortress that was once the
imperial city for a successionof Mughal rulers.
This is the most extraordinarybuilding.
Jahagi Mahal, I'm not sure ifyou had a chance to go there.
It's also a massive palace thatblends stunning Hindu-inspired
(11:28):
features with Central Asianarchitectural elements.
Lea Lane (11:35):
It's a small city, Fatehpur Sikri, just west of.
Again, founded by a16th-century Mughal Empire.
What's so special about thatlittle city?
Fatehpur Sikri.
Jilani Warsi (11:45):
Yeah, Fatehpur Sikri, as you said, is not too
far away from the Agra Fort orthe Taj Mahal.
It's the structure of FatehpurSikri, which is famous.
There is a pond inside theFatehpur Sikri structure.
Young people, younger people,even the locals, you know, the
brave hearts, they jump from thetop of it.
(12:06):
They dive into the pond.
Lea Lane (12:09):
I don't recommend that.
unknown (12:10):
Okay.
Jilani Warsi (12:12):
Unless they are, you know, daredevils.
Then yeah, sure.
But it's a small city, as yousaid, in northern India, and
it's that red sandstonebuilding, just like the Agra
Fort.
Swata for Swikri is thePulandarwaza in Urdu.
Pulan means high.
Lea Lane (12:28):
That's the big gate, right?
The entrance.
Jilani Warsi (12:30):
That's the big gate, really, really tall.
It's the entrance to JamaMasjid Mosque.
So most tourists, when they gothere, they enter and they walk
up to the Jama Masjid Mosque.
Just the same Jama Masjid in uhold area.
Jama means collective, andmasjid means a mosque.
So people go therecollectively, like not
(12:51):
individually, though one can gothere, but in groups of people,
they go and then they pray.
Near Fatehpur Sikri is themarble tomb of Salem Chishti.
It's called Diwanik Has Hall.
It has a carved central pillar.
Jyodah Bhai's palace is a mixof Hindu and Mughal style.
Jodah, by the way, is veryinteresting.
Akbar the Great, the Mughalemperor, he married a Hindu
(13:13):
woman when her name was Jodabai.
And he was Muslim.
And so that is how secular hewas.
He's setting a good example forIndia.
But look, the king can marry aHindu.
And throughout his life, hehonored his wife's religion.
So they built a temple insidethe palace.
That's another love story,right?
And she loved it because therewas no pressure on her to
(13:36):
convert to Islam.
She got up and she offered hermorning prayers.
So you will see both.
It's a very nice mix of Hinduand Mughal style.
So some of the architecturewill remind you of Islamic
architect, and then also there'sHindu architecture, too.
Next to the five-story punt onethat overlooks the site.
In the good old times, it wouldtake like six hours to get to
(13:57):
Agra from Delhi.
But now they have built ahighway and it takes just an
hour.
Lea Lane (14:01):
That's interesting.
I talked about driving earlier.
Trains have been the mode oftransportation for for many,
many years.
Because the highways maybehaven't in the past been up to
speed, so to speak.
What do you have to say aboutdriving in India?
I know I've been on the roadthere and it is daunting.
And I personally don'trecommend driving.
I recommend if you can getsomebody to drive you, but is it
(14:22):
better now?
I haven't been in a littlewhile.
Jilani Warsi (14:25):
No, the population has grown like tremendously.
I think it's even worse.
I mean, yes, the government hasbuilt lots of roads and
bridges.
Just like you, I don'trecommend driving.
If one is bold enough orcourageous enough, one could
drive from New Delhi to Agra.
Lea Lane (14:42):
Let me just add the other major city that people
think about, Mumbai.
It used to be called Bombay.
It's densely populated on thewest coast.
It's a financial center.
It's India's largest city.
It's a little more modern intempo.
What's not to miss?
What would you say?
Jilani Warsi (14:58):
Bollywood, one of the largest movie-making
industries.
Lea Lane (15:02):
Because of that, there are lovely luxury hotels and
restaurants.
Jilani Warsi (15:06):
This city is renamed as Mumbai because Bombay
is the name that the Britishgive, the town.
People would come from all overIndia to see this movie stars'
houses or their mansions ortheir palaces.
And they come out.
They have a balcony, the starscome out in the morning.
Oh, how nice.
People would gather and thenthey would get he would just
wait.
Lea Lane (15:28):
Okay.
That's very good.
They had a wonderful tour whereyou would go to this beautiful
old movie theater and you'd havedinner, and then they'd show a
beautiful Bollywood film, andsome of the stars would come out
there too.
It's a wonderful way toemphasize industry there.
Jilani Warsi (15:43):
Oh, absolutely.
So Mumbai is known for thestardom, you know, show
business.
So people go there for variousreasons.
You know, movie bus would go,and there's an area in Bombay
called Film City.
Okay, where they have studioswhen they're doing indoor
shootings, you know, not anoutdoor location.
Then they go to the film cityand enjoy, you know, just seeing
(16:05):
the uh statues and posters oftheir favorite movie stars.
It's great.
You probably know this, Lea,Marine Drive.
So I recommend just hiring acab, getting a taxi driver.
But driving across the BandraWorldly ceiling, this is one of
the most iconic sites.
And it really comes to life atnight because it's all lit up.
(16:25):
It's a gateway.
Lea Lane (16:26):
You're talking about the gateway arch, the big
gateway architecture.
There you go.
It's a modern, semi-modern forIndia, a hub, right?
On the waterfront.
Jilani Warsi (16:35):
Right.
It has the most impressiveviews of the Bandra Worldly
ceiling.
The Bandra Fort.
It's a historic watchtower bythe Portuguese in 1640.
So the way to get to the BandraFort is through the Marine
Drive.
At night, the bridge lights upspectacular colors.
Lea Lane (16:52):
Modern India.
But there is one place inMumbai that I went to that I
really was impressed with,Elephanta Island, the cave
temples there, dedicated to theHindu god Shiva.
If you take a little boat tothe island, to those caves, with
the carvings.
Jilani Warsi (17:05):
I agree.
Unfortunately, it doesn't getmuch press.
Lea Lane (17:26):
It's the food you'd eat at an Indian restaurant only
from a street vendor.
And it's similar.
We all are familiar with thedelicious uh curries
and tandoori chicken, butthey're on a stick where it's
easier to eat.
Jilani Warsi (17:39):
Right.
And not to mention the biryani,which is like the stick.
The rice, yes.
We can thank the Mughals forbringing it to India.
Lea Lane (17:46):
Yes, I always think people in India eat Indian food
every day!
Jilani Warsi (17:50):
That's true.
That's true.
But I think those of us, thoseare travelers, US travelers who
go to Indian restaurant, theyprobably already know what
Samosa is.
Yeah.
Samosa is this triangularfritter, and it's so amazing
that one could stuff it witheither mashed potatoes or even
ground meat.
You could find that too.
It's rather cheap, you know,like maybe not even five rupees.
(18:12):
Right.
Which is like 10 cents orsomething.
Right.
Very inexpensive.
But I strongly recommend enjoytrying out samosas.
Lea Lane (18:22):
Delicious food is part of India, the sensual part.
It's everything is sensualthere.
You the colors and the smellsand the sights and the tastes.
You have to really enjoy all ofit to get the feel.
So much wonderful food andwonderful sights.
And obviously, we can't dojustice to it in one session.
(18:42):
So what we're going to do forIndia is have a second part
where we discuss sacred sitesand festivals and the north
country, which is the hillcountry, and the south, which is
amazing, the waterways andwonderful cities and cultures.
So we're going to have Jilanicome back for that.
We'll look forward to that.
But meanwhile, the name of thepodcast is Places I Remember.
(19:06):
So Jilani, would you share withus a special memory of India?
Jilani Warsi (19:11):
Sure.
You've already mentioned thatearlier.
I think Mahabhodi Temple inBuddhagaya, which is from my
birthplace, Patnais, about anhour.
So it's not that far away.
It's the temple where theBuddha reached Nirvana, where he
was enlightened.
So there is a path after hebecame enlightened where he
(19:32):
walked back and forth.
This was called the Lotus Walk.
Yes.
Right?
And so people go there, andthere is still a banyan tree
under which he sat and meditatedfor a long time.
And I went there, I went therewith my family, and I lucked out
because that happened to be ahuge congregation of monks from
all over the world, not justIndian monks.
(19:54):
So they were all lyingprostrate, they're praying, they
were chanting the sutra.
It truly was very surreal.
I wasn't expecting that becauseyou usually go, you see the
Bodhi temple, and it's beenyears, but I'll never forget
they're wearing their robes,heads shaved, and all, and
they're all praying togetherlike thousands of Buddhist
(20:15):
monks.
So it was a very fortunate dayfor me, and I will never forget
that to go and just sit underthe tree.
The original tree is gonebecause thousands of years left,
but they planted somethingelse, another banyan tree, and
it's all grown up now.
It's beautiful.
So Buddhaka, if you happen tobe in the state of Bihar, that's
the only place you want to be.
Lea Lane (20:36):
We'll be talking more about, as I said, all the
interesting aspects of bothHinduism and Buddhism, which
began in India.
So thank you so much, Dr.
Jilani Warsi, professor andlanguage expert, for your
suggestions and insights andreally wonderful remembrances
about your native country.
(20:56):
You've given us a taste of whatmakes India a destination for
world travelers, one of thegreatest.
And we hope to have you backsoon to cover more about it, the
North, the South customsfestivals and all that.
We look forward to it.
Thanks again.
Jilani Warsi (21:10):
Thanks so much.
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