The Golden Age Of Modeling And 44 Pounds Of Cheese: Episode 160

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
The Voice of Bob (Bair) (00:11):
Welcome to Plastic Model Mojo, a
podcast dedicated to skillmodeling, as well as to news and
events around the hobby.
Join Mike in Kentucky Dave asthey strive to be informative,
entertaining, and help you keepthe modeling module alive.

Mike (00:41):
160 Kentucky Dave.
160 and less than a week toheritage card.
Oh man.
Well, I'm sure that was gonnacome in and out of this
conversation tonight, but uhreally looking forward to it.
I got a text message from SteveRui, who's a who's a Delta
pilot who gave us the long orthe extended forecast.
Yeah.

(01:01):
And I'm sure he's looking atbetter stuff than we're looking
at, given his uh advocation, soor his vocation.

Kentucky Dave (01:07):
Yeah.

Mike (01:08):
I get those confused.
That's okay.
When your hobby is like yourjob, it's easy to do.
It is.
But anyway, he said it's uhgonna be smooth sailing, so
that's good.
Smooth sailing for us is betterthan well, our bar for smooth
sailing may not be as uh high astheirs.

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (01:27):
Well coming from Minnesota trying to crawl out of two feet
of snow.

So yeah, exactly.
So it doesn't look like they'regonna have that problem.
And so and then Jim Bates hasgot his flights all lined up.
So what's not to like?
I'm I'm enthused, I'm fired up.

Mike (01:44):
Other than there's no teleport machine like in Star
Trek, just to take us to Detroitlike in a blink of an eye.
Nothing not much, but uh we'regonna have to enjoy the enjoy
that five and change drive upthere.

And uh and and let's face it, you know what?
You and I always have a greattime on those drives.
We end up we end up getting alot done, we end up talking,
making plans, outlining stufffor the episodes we want to do
in the future, and it alwaysworks out.
Well, if that wasn't it, man,what's up in your model sphere?

(02:16):
Well, that is my model sphereright now.

Mike (02:18):
Uh it is single tracking.

That's right.
That's right.
Well, plus I'm getting packagesin every day.
Uh young Evan is shippingthings to my house for us to
carry up to him, and it just Iand I don't know about you, but
I started packing for that tripprobably four or five days ago.
I got a big container, and thenI've got the cooler, I got the

(02:44):
beer, I got the hot sauce, I gotit, I just have all that stuff.
Cheese.
And the well, the cheese I'mgonna go get probably probably
Wednesday or Thursday.

Mike (02:55):
Yeah, we're rolling with some contraband.

Exactly.
Exactly Air America.
I checked the rules, dude.
I can take 44 pounds of cheeseinto Canada duty free.

Mike (03:08):
You'll be duty free after consuming 40 pounds of cheese.

I knew that's where you were going.
But yeah, I know my modelsphere is all consuming with
HeritageCon.
I did finally get registered.
Um that's good.

Mike (03:22):
You don't have to wait in a car.

Yeah, it would have been bad to be sitting out
there.
I'm sorry, you can't come in.

Mike (03:27):
Let's mention that.
If you don't register forHeritageCon via the electronic
means, there's none day of.
Right.
I don't mean register yourmodels, I mean get in the
museum.
You may or may not get a ticketin the museum day of.
So, folks, if you haven't doneit yet, you've got a few days
and you really need to get on itbecause I'll if you're local,

(03:51):
it'd be one thing.
It'd be bad enough.
But if if you if you had uh aplurality of hours in the car to
get there and found out thatyou gotta turn around and go
home, yeah, that'd dad That'd bebad.
That'd be bad.

So what's up in your model sphere, Mike?

Mike (04:07):
We were like right before St.
Patrick's Day last episode.
And yeah.
I had a really bad dad joke,but I just I you know the the
the the Louisville St.
Patty's Day parade was marredby a tragic incident and it's
not gonna go there, but that wasbad.

It was.
In fact, my wife and I wereactually in attendance at the
parade, and that it anytimeeverybody gets together for
something like that, and youknow, tragedy occurs and
somebody loses their life, itjust it's it's sad on what
otherwise should be a very happyoccasion.

Mike (04:42):
So we'll save that till next St.
Patrick's Day.
Yeah, there you go.
Other than that, you know, it'sit's modeling, but it's not
bench top halftime report.
This is this BT5 project thatuh you mentioned Young Evan.

Yes.

Mike (04:54):
Uh has got me hot for, and we're gonna do some kind of
buddy build.
Uh we can talk about it atHeritageCon.

Yep.

Mike (05:02):
I hope.

Yep.
Maybe even record it.
We'll see.

Mike (05:05):
Yeah, we'll see.
You know, I was grousing aboutlast time how I'd ordered the
wrong BT five kit.
Right.
Or BT seven kit to cabbage theturret out of, which wasn't my
intent.
I I I should have just Iordered the kit I wanted to
build of the BT series first.
And I should have thought, oh,I should have bought the one
that had the turret I could takeout of.

(05:26):
But I didn't.
And then our friend Steve Reeddown in the low country there of
South Carolina and Georgia,where is he?
He's near Savannah.
He's near the power plant.

Okay.

Mike (05:36):
Down near Savannah.
He chimed in and said, Hey, Imight have one if you want it.
And he dug around and foundone.
And, you know, I I don't knowif I'll take him up on that or
not, because I've got all theother stinking T26 kits from
Hobby Boss in my stash.
I mean, the turret's right inthere behind that door, I can
see from this microphone.

(05:57):
Uh is the part I need.
So crisis averted, a lot ofworrying about nothing.
So that's that's the BT5.
So we'll see where that goes.
So need to not do that.
Worry about stuff like that.

Are you registered for HeritageCon?

Mike (06:11):
Uh I am registered for HeritageCon.
I need to print out my stinkingtickets and stuff.
Yeah.
So do you.

Yep.

Mike (06:17):
In replicate.

Yep.

Mike (06:19):
On that same theme, Kit Mask.
Unfortunately, they're notgoing to be there, which is a
little sad for us.
A lot sad for us, actually.
But Janelle's been workingovertime to cover us for
HeritageCon with somepromotional stuff.
Yeah.
And I hope it works out.
It's going to be tight.

Well, I hope so too.
And I listen, uh, you and Ihave repeatedly said we love
promoting manufacturers andsellers, retailers, et cetera,
who really do a good job and arevery customer forward.
And there's nobody in thebusiness that I can think of
that is more customer friendlyand accommodating than Kevin and

(07:01):
Janelle.

Mike (07:02):
So she sent me an email, I guess they're on Pacific time,
and I got it like at 2 a.m.
the other night.
So I found it in the morningand I responded immediately.
And then we had one moreiteration on what she was
working on, and I think we tookcare of it yesterday, last
night.
So hopefully she had time, ormaybe I had to wait till Monday
morning because the print shopwasn't open.

(07:24):
But maybe that print shop's inthe Hamilton.
I don't know, but uh she'scutting it close.
But hopefully it works out.
I'll be more than pleased ifthat material's waiting on us
when we get there.
You and me both.
And finally, we had somethings, just the scheduling, we
had some scheduling problemslast last week.

Yeah.

Mike (07:45):
Um, and hopefully, I'm not gonna get into who it was, but
we'll we'll get that taken careof.
But Ed Bareth was kind of on mymind about being coupled with
what we had to reschedule.
Ed's got a really interestingproject we're doing kind of in
collaboration with him as far asthe exposure to the the greater
Mojovia.

(08:06):
And Ed, I'm gonna be in touchsoon, probably after
HeritageCon, and we're gonnawe're gonna get that started.
So I haven't forgotten aboutyou.
I'm sure you know that, but uhjust some stuff happened here
late last week and it justdidn't work out.
So we're gonna get that going.
And folks, you're gonna likeit, especially if you like
large-scale aircraft.

Yep.
It's cool.

Mike (08:27):
That's my model sphere.
Finally, something besidesplanning.

There you go.

Mike (08:31):
Well, Mike, uh, since we're recording, do you have a
modeling fluid?
I do.
I finally circled back aroundto the Russell's tenure, Dave.
Okay.
Always a good choice.
It is, and uh, you know, I'llprobably have a have have I'll
have some during the sh therecording tonight, and I'm gonna
slap some tape around thatbottle, and uh it's gonna come
with us to Heritage Gon alongwith a brand new bottle of

(08:55):
Weller Special Reserve.

Cannot wait.
Cannot wait.

Mike (08:59):
We're we're in good shape, and I know you said today you
picked up some beer, so what areyou into tonight, though?

Well, what I'm into tonight is a McDonald's
fountain coke.

Mike (09:10):
Um, it's getting to be a habit on on recording night day.

Well, it's only the second time, but obviously
we're going to to be going up toDetroit and then on to
Hamilton.
So I'm taking a break from themodeling fluids of the world so
that my liver is nice and freshwhen we get up to when when we
get up to Hamilton.

Mike (09:35):
I don't think it works that way, man.

I think that's your uh Oh well, I'll try, man.

Mike (09:39):
That's your that's your Catholicism coming through, man.

There you go.
But in any event, I do have avery fresh fountain coke from
McDonald's, and man, I'm here totell you there is no soft drink
better than a McDonald'sfountain coke.

Mike (09:55):
Well, I'm gonna second that because it was uh rather
balmy in Kentucky this weekend,and my son and I really busted
it out in the backyard, andguess what I went and got when I
was done.
Yeah, I'll bet you did.
I told Jack it was the nectarof the gods.
Yep, it is pretty much.
It got me about halfway back towhere I'd been after all that

(10:16):
work, man.
But uh that's a big that was abig step.
The rest needed a night'ssleep, but we're there.

So we got listener mail, Mike?

Mike (10:24):
We do have listener mail, Dave.

All right.

Mike (10:28):
Let's get into it.
We're gonna get right into it.
Let me back up here because I Ididn't print it this time, and
it's never good when I don'tprint it.

That's okay.

Mike (10:37):
We'll get you through it.
First up, folks, is GiannisRomatikos, and he's a Greek
who's living in the UK inLondon.
Mm-hmm.
And interesting, he's anelectrical engineer by trade,
and he got back into modelingaround Christmas of 2024 after
30 years away from the hobby.
And now he's happily surroundedby model kits and loads of

(10:58):
tools, and says he's even thoughhe doesn't know how to use them
properly.
Well, you'll get there, man.

Yeah, especially as an electrical engineer.
He's not gonna have muchtrouble figuring all that out.

Mike (11:12):
Well, he had some really nice things to say, and I
forwarded it to you.
And uh, you know, we don'twe're not ones to get into the
platitudes we receive on air,but uh we do appreciate it,
Giannis.
Yes.
Very nice, and he wishes we'ddo a little bit more on
48-scraft, and we can probablyaccommodate that.
Yeah, maybe we'll get Mr.
Wallace back.
We can get him get Wallaceback.
Well, Dave, he loves yourenthusiasm for 70 second scale,

(11:36):
but it's too small for hisclumsy hands, he says.

I maintain that the parts are the same size in a
48-scale kit as they are in a70-second scale kit, but I
sympathize and understand.
Maybe we can get Chris Wallaceback on, and because Chris is
Chris is killing it with some48-sc aircraft modeling lately.

Mike (11:58):
Well, good on him, and he is.
And uh we'll see him atHeritageCon.
We will.
He's our host.
That's right.
All right, Dave, moving on.
Steve Burktold.
And uh he wants to he says thenext time we have Doctor Strange
brush on, have him explain thesolution to make mission models
paint work better and resolvethe adhesive issues.
He hears uh mission modelspaint bash constantly.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:21):
And he has these issues.
Yeah.
And uh I I I think the runningjoke is it's it's it's a
chemistry set for grown-ups.
Right.
Is Mission Models Paint.
But it can be made to work.
And I think if you dig in theback catalog, the first time
John was on the show, we talkedabout mission models paint.

I think we did.
If you go to his website, ModelPaint Solution.

Mike (12:42):
Well, that's what he did.
Yes.
And he went to the website andhe found the answers and now
it's working great.
Good.
And Steve would also tell youif there's something on the
website you're not quite gettingor need a little bit more meat
in the in the instruction, justcall him.

Yeah.

Mike (12:57):
He'll take your call and he'll tell you everything you
need to know, and then a bunchof other stuff, and you'll be
grateful you called him.

Ver just like we were mentioning with Kevin and
Janelle, customer facing.
He he loves talking modeling,he loves talking painting, and
he has forgotten more about theart of airbrushing than I know.
So yeah, absolutely.
If you if you have a question,he's the most available guy out

(13:28):
there.
You just reach out, email,phone, whatever, and you'll get
a response.

Mike (13:33):
All right.
Up next is from uh WilliamBarry Goss.
And I'm a little where'd thiscome from?
It was an email that was aresponse to a discussion about
decals on Beyond the Box ArtPodcast.

Oh, okay.

Mike (13:46):
Out of the UK.
And he he goes into a lot ofthe stuff about homebrew decals.
William, I I appreciate theinformation and I I've responded
to him privately, and I'veactually made a request of him.
He's actually in Orlando,Florida, Barry Goss, Orlando,
Florida.
And hopefully he well, he hasgotten back with me, but a
little bit of a delay.

(14:07):
He's working on something else,but if he can think about it
and decides he wants to do it,he's gonna maybe do something
for us.
So uh Barry, at least thank youfor considering it and thank
you for the information.
If what we requested cannot bedone, that's okay.
And then we'll take theinformation you've given us and
we'll forward it on andhopefully help some people make
their own decals.
It was because we talked aboutthe the hobbyist decals I'd

(14:29):
gotten from hobbyist decals outof out of India.

India.

Mike (14:34):
So there you go.
Hopefully I hear back from him.
I I'd really like to get him onboard with what I what I've
asked him to do.
So we'll see.

Okay.

Mike (14:44):
Next up, Dave, is uh another Dave, David Enders.
And uh he just finishedlistening to episode 159, which
was Jake McKee talking aboutgoing from AI prompts to
printable figures.
And he says on both largescaleplanes.com and large scale
modeler.com.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:02):
Modeler Jerome Peters has been building some 30-second
scale aircraft, and he's beenusing this process to make
figures for his uhpresentations.
So and actually he's not thethis is not the only response we
got, and we'll talk about thisa little later.
Yeah.
Um pretty interesting.
He says he talked to you inMurfreesboro.
Oh David Enders.
Okay.

(15:22):
He's the guy that had the uhthe IBG uh PZL 11c.

Okay, yeah, I remember.

Mike (15:30):
Okay.
So there you go.
We'll have to check out theseblogs, and if there's well, if I
can find the maybe back up.
David, if you can point me tothe exact threads on these
forums, so because I'm notfamiliar, we can find them and
and we'll get those posted sofolks can understand this a
little bit more.
Uh you know, there's otherpeople doing this with varying

(15:51):
degrees of success, and it'sreally interesting.
We'll talk about that more in alittle bit.
Yes, we will.
Well, my old friend Mike IdaCavage is written in from
Marietta.

Yeah.

Mike (16:00):
I almost expected this.
I probably did subconsciously.
It was about the 72nd scalekits of the SA2 and the and the
Patriot systems.
Right.
This theme you like, Dave, isalso favorite of his.

So Yes, it is.

Mike (16:17):
He has several in his stash, so they do exist.
We'll run them both down forthe SA2.
You mentioned the Hobby Boss,which he also mentions.
Right.
Uh there's also a Planet Modelsresin kit.

Yeah.

Mike (16:29):
Uh Zebrano SA2 made up mounted on a T-55 chassis that's
in plastic and resin.
And we also mentioned theAirfix 72 76 scale kit.

Yeah.

Mike (16:40):
Uh and he says there's a few others out there, but
they're not as good as the HobbyBoss.

Yeah.

Mike (16:46):
So there's the SA2 and the the Patriot.
And again, I I this is all 72ndscale.

Yep.

Mike (16:53):
Model Collect has a PAC3.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:57):
So that's the I don't know, these are the designations
for the various generations ofthe system.

Yep.

Mike (17:04):
Aoshima also has a PAC3.

Yep.

Mike (17:08):
I'll go, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the model
collect's probably better thanthat, unless they're the same
kit.
Aoshima made the Musuru carkit, and I was uh uh you know, I
wasn't unimpressed, but I was Iwasn't overwhelmed either.
Gotcha.
Uh Tropper has a a PAC2.

Yes, they do.

Mike (17:27):
And a company called On Target has the missile only.
Right.
So I may dump these into theshow notes.
So thanks, Mike.
Hope your show down at Atlantalast weekend went well.
I bet it did.
And now we got a bunch ofinformation about SA2s and
Patriot Missile Systems in one70 second scale, Dave.
Yep.
Well, Dave, finally, answeringmy call to him specifically when

(17:50):
I was talking about my customdecals last episode.
Adam Coleman has has written usin.

Yeah.

Mike (17:56):
And he had hobbyist decals make uh copies of the decals
for the air fixed Moskva, thehelicopter carrier kit.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:04):
He measured the sets of millimeters and to give them
some size references.
Paid $35 for two sets ofdecals.
Now these are the sheets notvery big.
Right.
Let's see.
I think he gave me some basicdimensions.
Well, the overalls aren'tthere, but he's he used solving
set on his, which is a solvent Idid not use.
And he thought it he thought itworked on these.

(18:27):
Okay.
So now I get now I'm curious.

If anything was going to solve set would be the
thing.

Mike (18:34):
Well, that AK decal adapter was supposed was
supposed to be kind of on thesame theme, right?
As far as aggressiveness.
So Solvaset made a differencefor him on his his Heledeck
decals.

Okay.

Mike (18:48):
Um and you know, he he agreed that this uh the
singulation off the plotter wasnot was not a great thing
either.
So he cut around all his bownumbers and all that after he
found the hard edge.
And he knows the Raj, therepresentative at Hobbyist
Decals, is working on qualitycontrol and he'd be open to
suggestions.
So I'm probably gonna go aheadand send them a summary of my

(19:09):
opinion on their decals.

Yeah.

Mike (19:11):
And hopefully uh they can do some improvement and uh pay
it forward just a little bit.

Right.
Somebody's got to tell thembefore they can get better.

Mike (19:19):
That's for sure.
And he says finally he has asmall project he's about to give
them in 170 second scale.
So Adam will be real curioushow that one goes as well.
Especially you, Dave.
Yes, absolutely.
All right, well, Dave, that isthe email side of things.
Has anything been coming inthrough direct message?

Oh gosh, yes.
Um first of all, numerouspeople have reached out and
said, Are you going to be atHamilton slash amps?
And the answer is yes, we'regonna be at Hamilton, and yes,
we're gonna try and be at Amps,but numerous people are wanting
to arrange meetups at both thoselocations.

(20:02):
So I'm looking forward toseeing a lot of listeners both
places.

Mike (20:07):
Our amps ought to be in pretty good shape, man.
I hope.
Me too.
We're better than we were thistime last year.

Mr.
Idakavitch was not the onlyperson to hear our conversation
regarding the SA2 and thePatriot.
Kyle Williams reached out toalso point out that Ayoshima and
Trumpeter both do a version ofthe Patriot 70 second scale.

(20:35):
And of course, Mike Idavichmentioned that Model Collect
also does one.
So there are choices if youwant to do one.
Again, you mentioned Mr.
Coleman and and his decalexperimentation.
As you know, he also brings inLiang model stuff, and he had
DM'd me because Liang has abunch of new products.

(21:00):
So if you want, go take a lookat their website, just Google
Liang Models, L-I-A-N-G models,and you'll find the website.
And they're doing some really,really interesting stuff.
So don't sleep on it.
Listener Jeff Danich.

Mike (21:20):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he's written in before.

You know, I had mentioned all those things I
bought for my hobby room, whichis still a mess and not
organized, but we won't talkabout that.
One of the things I'd mentionedwas a pair of glasses with
multiple replaceable lenses tokind of replace your standard
optivizor.

Mike (21:41):
So want them to show your model in a finished state?

Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.

Mike (21:46):
Those would be the rose colored ones, right?

Yeah, that's right.
Go ahead.
Just stab away.
You miss you finish one modelin a year, and boy, all of a
sudden you are Mr.
Mr.
Finish.

Mike (21:56):
That's right.

So, but he asked about.
He asked for a link and I senthim a link.
We'll put a link in the shownotes in case anybody else is
interested.
I've played with them a littlebit, and I do think that they're
a useful replacement.
They have some advantages overyour classic Optivisor, so we'll

(22:18):
put that in the show notes incase anybody wants to see it.
Speaking of products, youmentioned that Paul Budzig
mentioned that once a year hegoes through and just gets all
new superglues.
Yep.
Because superglues age, andeven if you've, no matter how

(22:42):
carefully you store them andeverything, as they age, they
degrade.
They react with the humidity inthe air, among other things.
And so you talked about PaulBudzig just replacing them all
once a year.
Christian Gurney of Bases byBill was interested in that same
concept, but he couldn'tremember where Paul was getting

(23:07):
his stuff.
And it's Robart, R-O-B-A-R-T.
That's another thing.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.

Mike (23:15):
Yeah, we should have done that last time.
That was my oversight.

You're not nobody's 100%.
You're close, but nobody's.
We try, man.

Mike (23:22):
We try to be 110, man.

Yes, I know.
The Podfather, our friend fromDown Under, reached out because
we've been talking for sometime.
They wanted to have us on theirshow for a crossover episode.
So that is in the planning.
So if you turn on OTB at somepoint in the future and you hear

(23:45):
Mike and I, it's not anaberration.
It's a well-planned crossoverepisode.

Mike (23:52):
Still might be an aberration.
It's been a long time sincewe've been on their show.

It is.
It has been.
But we're going to get to seethe Pod Father this summer.
So I'm looking forward to it.

Mike (24:02):
We are.
We are looking forward to thattoo, man.

Yep.
Chris Mettings, ITA 3, Insidethe Armor 3, also known as ITA
3.
Chris does just some amazing 3Dstuff.
He has thrown himself into 3Dand just is absolutely producing
some amazing stuff.
I previously mentioned theVickers K guns that he did in

(24:29):
72nd scale, 3D printed that wereamazing.
Well, he had, we were DMing andhe had sent me a picture of
he's doing Japanese bombs andbomb racks in in 48 scale.

Mike (24:45):
Which means you can do them on all scales.

Well, that's what I said.
I said, Do you think you couldpossibly would they work?
Would you and you know I saidthat was like three or four
weeks ago, and then a couple ofdays ago I get a DM from him
saying, hey, I did it, theywork, and sent me a bunch of
pictures.

Mike (25:06):
So uh Well, even if it didn't work, I I uh you know, my
engineering mind says theproblem is the the the the tail
box structure, right?
Right, the f the fins, if youif they were made to scale in
48th and he tried to print themin 72nd, they're like vapor.
I mean there's like nothingthere, right?
They're so thin that you you'dprobably have a hard time

(25:27):
resolving those on on mostprinters.
But they might work, dependingon what he did.
But he's done a beautiful job.
He's figured it out.
I don't care how he did it, butnow we got some small-scale
Japanese bombs.

He sent me some beautiful pictures, man.
I'm telling you what, this workis amazing.
And finally, Martin Pieta.
Yeah, I'm I I love ourlisteners, I just absolutely
love them, but they are bad formy wallet.
And this happens literally oncea week.

(26:00):
Somebody remembers something Italked about.
Oh, I'd like to have this, orI'm interested in that, or
whatever.

Mike (26:06):
You have to watch what you say.

Exactly.
And Martin DM'd me to tell methat uh that a certain vendor
had a flash sale on fine molds,F-15s, and Imperial Japanese
army seat belts in 72nd scale.
And man, it you know, that's athat's a heat.

Mike (26:29):
So what'd you get?

That's a heat.
Well, I haven't done anythingyet, because Hamilton, man.

Mike (26:35):
You know, this those seat belts aren't gonna be in
Hamilton.

I know.
I'm looking I understand it,but oh my god, it's a
heat-sinking missile straight atmy wallet.
So I and uh all joking aside, Iappreciate Martin doing this.
I appreciate any of you.
If you all see something thatI've mentioned or you know I'd

(26:58):
be interested or whatever,particularly if it's something
on sale, please DM me.
I I love getting thosemessages.

Mike (27:06):
And I don't know who was doing them before, but if you're
if you know who you are and youcan do the make Dave Spend
Money bingo card, let's see oneof those.
Oh God.
Is that it, Kentucky?

That's it.
That's it, man.

Mike (27:21):
Well, folks, that is the end of the listener mail
segment, which is our absolutefavorite segment of the show.
Almost always.
I mean, if we had a really goodguest, it might not be, but
usually it is.
Of our core segments,definitely is.
Yeah.
We can say that withoutreservation.
So if you'd like to submitemail to Plastic Model Mojo, you
can do that by sending us anemail to Plasticmodel Mojo at

(27:42):
gmail.com.
Or you can send a directmessage through Facebook's
messenger system, and I'llhandle email most of the time.
Dave will handle the directmessages most of the time.
In addition, there's a thirdavenue to do this.
There's a feedback link, a weblink in the show notes.
You can send us a message thatway.
We get a few, we get a few thatway too.
It's it's getting a littlegetting getting a little more

(28:03):
popular.
So we appreciate that as well.

Absolutely.

Mike (28:27):
Well, folks, it's a shop talk kind of episode, and uh, we
got a couple things we're gonnarun through.
Maybe three if we can think ofa third.
We had a we had a long uh modelshow spotlight, so this episode
might air to the to the lowerside of the time stamp.
So anyway, we mentioned JakeMcKee's appearance last time, a

(28:51):
little earlier, and the AImodeling.
We had enlisted mail talk aboutthat.
We had a lot of well, I won'tsay a lot, but we we had a nice
thread going on that on the dojotalking about this episode and
what it might mean or might notmean.
We thought we'd rattle on alittle bit with some additional
thoughts about that because itwas it was a really, really

(29:11):
interesting episode, and it wasreally almost well received is
the right word, but it certainlyseemed to be spurred fault
thought provoking.
There you go.
Spurred some additionalconversation, which which we'd
love to see.
So go ahead, Dave.

Well, start this off by what you did, because
okay, when we interviewed Jake,it blew my mind.
I mean, literally, I don't knowthat I've stopped thinking
about the possibilities sincethat interview.
I mean, literally nearly everyday, and I've interacted with a

(29:46):
bunch of people on what not onlywhat it means now, but what it
means 18 months from now.
But then you did something thatblew my mind.
You you've never done anythingJake was talking about.
Okay, you're a talentedengineer, you you understand all

(30:06):
this stuff, but you've nevertried anything that he was
talking about prior to usinterviewing him.

Mike (30:16):
That's not exactly true.
When we got that email from theperson wanting to do the the
bunch of HO scale figures ofrail fans looking at that big
boy locomotive, remember thatone?

Yeah.

Mike (30:27):
I did go play with it then.
Okay.
But that here's here's thepoint though.
That was not that long ago.
That was months, months away,not not a year away.
It was months away.
Probably less than six.

And the technology wasn't there.

Mike (30:44):
Was almost there, but uh meshi, the the the program that
Jake was using.
Yeah, one of them, he's usingseveral, but right from the
image to the to the 3D, has gonethrough two they're calling
them, you know, levels ofiteration.
So two major iterations since Itried it.

(31:06):
So when I tried, I was like,eh, okay, this I could see if I
would really spend a lot of timedoing this.
This could be something.
Uh for HO and 70 second scale,it was probably getting close to
okay.

Yeah.

Mike (31:22):
Because I've seen some resin 70 second scale figures
that were not a lot better thanwhat the AI AI was kicking out.
But that said, uh, after theinterview, I was like, okay,
Jake's giving me us some moreinformation here to work from,
and let's just see what thisdoes.
So I thought up something newto do, and my modeling interests

(31:45):
tend to skew hard toward thewar on the Eastern Front between
Germany and the Soviet Unionand some of the third right
proxies like Romanian andHungary.
So so and and taking what Jakehad said, you know, because you
raised the question about goingfrom a you know a photograph, a

(32:09):
period photograph, a real a realphotograph.
And he's like, Yes, but and thebut was it's not gonna resolve
all the details of equipment andthings that are gonna have to
be for a model or a purist isare gonna be right.

Right.

Mike (32:25):
Because it's that's where it's gonna fall apart.
So he was like his figures werecivilians for one.

Yeah.

Mike (32:33):
And they had period clothing, but a lot of
generalities around them.
And he even said, you know, hehe kind of said that he had a
you know, I don't carethreshold.
Right.
As long as it's somethingthat's looks right.

Yeah.

Mike (32:47):
So I kind of like, okay, let's let's start there.
And I think, okay, I've got anidea of maybe advancing Germans
in the Ukraine in 41, summer 41,Operation Barbarossa, or
retreating Soviet troops, kindof the same thing.
Yeah.
Um, maybe a tank or a truck orsomething, and you've got a a

(33:13):
figure of authority leaning overthe side, shouting and pointing
to some peasants on the road,and they're looking up at this
guy like, what the heck, right?

Right.

Mike (33:22):
Uh so the the prompts were for a about a nine or
ten-year-old boy, a Russianpeasant in period clothes for
summer of 1941.
I got into what his clothinglooked like a little bit.
I want his like his pantcuffsrolled up like just above his
ankles, and I wanted to carry ina basket of turnips like they
had just picked these things.

(33:42):
And maybe maybe that's thewrong season.
I don't know.
I should probably keep lookinglook into our beets, yes, when
beets are actually harvested,because I really don't know.
Because I'm a city boy byheart, I guess.
But anyway, I put all this inthere, and this was the kick
out.
The other prompt was aphotorealistic image of X, and X

(34:03):
was all the stuff I just said.

Right.

Mike (34:07):
And lo and behold, it did it.
And did it and it it did itwell.

It breathtakingly well.

Mike (34:17):
Wow, that's you that's crazy.

You you played for that with this for not that
long, right?

Mike (34:23):
No, this is on my lunch break at work.
I did this, yeah.
So I'm talking less than anhour.

And then he sends me the the images of this both
the the 3D CAD type image andthe photo realistic image.
I was blown away.
Now, Mike is very talented, andMike understands some of this

(34:50):
stuff that I'll neverunderstand.
I mean, being an engineer andall, but I'm not sure that a lot
of that came into play in whatyou did.

Mike (34:59):
I know I was yeah, it did not.
And other than it's it's likeJake said, it's it's how these
two things, the human and the AIinterface, talk to each other.
And that's where these thingswork and that's where they
break.

Right.

Mike (35:20):
Um, it was really interesting.
Like you'll do the first bunchof prompts and it'll kick out
this image, and it's like, thenyou're like, well, take the
basket, the handle off thebasket.
Or and then you step a littlefurther, or make his cuffs not
rolled up as high, or cut hishair off to be like a buzz cut.
You know, so it's a prettycommon haircut in the summer

(35:41):
with these peasants.
You look at these photographsthat see on German eBay, and
like these kids have no hair,their heads are almost
completely shaved.
And you go, go, go, go, and youget to a point, it's like,
okay, fine.
Then you want to take that oneto Meshi and and and make a 3D.
And even that came out prettypretty good.
I was surprised.

Now I was shocked.

Mike (36:02):
Let me say that I've had a honestly, I've had a couple of
listeners say that, hey, I'mdoing this kind of stuff, and
I'll never use all my credits.
If you want me to print this ordo do the STL and send it to
you, I'll do it.
So the two or three folks whohave done that, you know and you
know who you are, thank youvery much for that offer.
I really appreciate that.

(36:22):
Probably will take somebody upon this, but I got multiple
requests or offers.
Again, I really appreciate it,very generous.
And just see where this goesbecause now this is like turning
into something I might actuallywant to do.
Because I think the dioramaidea is interesting.
And I went on from doing theyoung boy.

(36:44):
Did I share I did his oldersister?
No, you did not.
So I need to send you thosepictures.
So I'm I'm like, now I've gotthis like mid to older teenage
girl who's post in a similar butdifferent way.
So they're they're a tandemlooking up at somebody that's
higher elevated than they are,who's like passing on a on a

(37:04):
vehicle down the road.
So really interesting that theway this has turned out.
But the the thing though thatbugged me, and it'll get better,
and I wonder if Jake will chimeback in through listener mail.
You you you do your first bunchof prompts and then it kicks it
out.
And maybe he's doing itcompletely different because
he's not an engineer.

Right.

Mike (37:24):
I I'm doing the prompts at in with an engineering mindset.
If it was more of a, I don'tknow, a graphic graphic artist
mindset, the prompts may bedifferent, but the point I'm
gonna trying to get to here isyou you do this first tranche of
prompts and you get somethingthat's close, and then you start
iterating on it.
Right.
Well, at some point during theiteration, you'll phrase

(37:47):
something in a way that itcompletely blows up and breaks.
And it's from that point that Idon't know how to recover what
I've already done.
Because even going back andsaying back up to the last
iteration, I never get the samething back that it moved from
with my last errant prompt orwhatever.
So it's it's it's close, butnot exactly.

(38:09):
And I think with what Jake wasdoing, it's yeah, it's it's
working real good for him,except for that seated, the
complicated one.

Right.

Mike (38:18):
The complicated one is is not working.
And then some of the listenerson the dojo who are pointing out
one was a really good pointthat I completely missed was at
what point did it go from thechildlike, stubby fingered hands
in the in the photorealisticimage to these lifeless,
exceedingly long-fingered handsthat are on the 3D generated

(38:42):
model from Meshi.
And I was like, like, oh man,you're right.
I can't live with that now.
Not that I can't unsee it,right?
The kid's got like he's nineyears old and his fingers are
are four inches long.

Or you can palm a basketball.

Mike (38:57):
Yeah, you can palm a basketball at nine years old.
So uh that's the kind of stuffyou're gonna run into.
And I don't know, because thatthat's that's between the image
and meshi, and I don't know.
I need some help there, folks.

I don't know what to do there because what blew
me away about this uh about allof this, in addition to the
concept when we talked to Jake,was you sitting down over a
lunch hour having never reallydone this before.
And eating my lunch at the sametime.
You can walk and chew gum atthe same time, and to be able to

(39:33):
produce what you produced thatquickly.
I think about what can be donenow, but what really blows me
away is 12 months from now,we'll have a a new generation of
3D printers and one or two moreiterations of this software.

(39:57):
And if it's this good now,what's it gonna be like 12
months from now?
I mean, this uh I'm not talkingfive years or anything.

Mike (40:07):
Yeah, I'm talking 12 months from now.
Well, the the printer one, Idon't I don't know.
That's this current crop ofprinters.
I well, I wouldn't be the firstperson to say it's good enough,
only to be proven wrong, right?
Right.
I guess that's not the rightway to talk about it.
I think for the these consumerhobby, these hobby hobbyist

(40:29):
consumer printers that most ofthese folks are using to do all
this amazing stuff.
Yep.
If the finesse of detail, theyou know, the the s the tiniest
detail that this thing canresolve is is still always
fighting the durability of theresin.
There's just certain thingsthat me, Mike, on Plastic Model

(40:50):
Mojo, Mike, is never gonna adopt3D printing for because it's
just too too stinking fragile.
Um the the details there, it'sit's like infinitesimally small,
but you look at it hard enoughand you'll break it.

Yeah, but that's the resins.
That's the resins today, notthe resins a year from now.

Mike (41:11):
I'm telling you that I know, but uh I've I've I know
what you're saying, and yes, Ithink.
It's not there yet.
There's still there's still adisconnect, in my opinion,
right.
Between the durabilities of theresins and the detail, the this
the the finesse of detail youcan actually print.

Yeah.

Mike (41:28):
So we've we that's digressing from the topic of the
the AI to 3D print, though.

But that's it's related, but well, we're talking
about where we're gonna be ayear from now.

Mike (41:38):
And we got a lot of information.
Well, we got a lot of commentsabout other folks doing it and
some direction to some otherresources to do it.
All that I'll say is in thepositive bucket for this.
Um there was a converse aswell.
We got a lot of stuff about thenegative side of this.

There well, it depends on what you mean by
well, negative side of this.
I certainly think this is goingto be disruptive to several
types of hobbyists.
Um I agree.
The cottage industry figuremodeler, you know, the guy who

(42:19):
carves and casts and sculpts andall that and sculpts and and
works really hard artisticallyto bring a figure to life and
then casts it and sells it.
I'm not saying they're gonnaget wiped out by this, but
there's gonna be some businessthat goes away from it.

Mike (42:42):
There is, yeah.

Um I don't know.

Mike (42:46):
It was Martin Hulst who who who made a comment on the
dojo that was that spurred a alot of interest in conversation,
I think.
Um it was and and you had aconversation offline with you
mentioned Chris Maddings earlierwith him about, you know, this
is this is gonna kill somecottage industries, and that's
probably true.
Yep.
To what degree, I I don't know.

(43:07):
It's depending on what side ofthe coin you're on for the most
part, you tend to forget aboutthe influences coming from the
other side of the coin that youcan't for whatever reason you
you're not you're not lookingat.

Right.
They're not visible to you forwhatever reason.

Mike (43:23):
Like for instance, the the the person who predicted the
world catastrophe due tooverpopulation passed away here
recently.
Paul Ehrlich.
Paul Ehrlich.
And uh he made a lot ofassumptions about birth rates
and a lot of and and completelydiscounted human ingenuity.

Right.
And uh right now wasn't wasn'tinterested in taking in new
evidence.
Once he reached his conclusion,when things continued to happen
that proved him wrong, then heat no point was he willing.
To at least step back and go,okay, maybe maybe I need to

(44:05):
review this whole thing withfresh eyes.
And I think that's coming forthis AI and 3D printing.

Mike (44:12):
Thank you for bringing it back.
I don't want to get into debateabout whether he was right or
wrong because there's plenty ofthat on the flipping internet
already.
Right.
But what goes away, but whatemerges, I don't know.
And is it I I we just don'tknow.

I mean, there are probably some visionary people
out there who can make somepredictions that would not be
obvious to you or I, but I thinkthere's a lot of it where we
just don't know.
Somebody's gonna do somethingthat you or I haven't even
thought of yet.
True.
And I keep saying we live in thegolden time of of this hobby,

(44:52):
and I think that's true as faras all this 3D print stuff goes.
Now, what's it ultimately gonnado to the hobby or people
involved in various aspects ofthe hobby?
I have no clue.
But it's sure, sure as heckexciting.

Mike (45:10):
And it's it's gonna come up in the faves and yons.
Yep.
But so much of it is on thatside of the development, right?
Is it's all all that all thisstuff is is 3D print.

Yeah.

Mike (45:25):
Divorced of AI to 3D figures or whatever.
Fundamentally, for me, themedium is still not something I
like working with.
Right.
And I I just really wonder howpervasive that is in the model
sphere for for other folks.

No, that's a good question for listeners.
If if you've worked with 3Dprinted materials, how how do
how is your experience comparedto working in plastic or resin
or photo etch or whatever?
Do you like working in it?
Do you find it deficientcompared to other materials?

(46:05):
What are your thoughts?
Because Mike and I are realinterested in all of this.

Mike (46:10):
I am, and I will fully admit that a lot of it for me is
old dog and new tricks, right?
Right.
It's just learning somethingnew.
And and I think part of myopinion has been polluted by
products that have come out in3D print where the designer has
given very little attention, ifany, to the support structure,

(46:31):
where it is, how big the contactpoints are, and all that.
And I've gotten a few thingsthat are they're rendered
completely useless no matter howwell they're printed, just
because you're gonna destroy itgetting it off the support
structure, or the work involvedgetting it off the support
structure is not far enoughbetter than me building it from

(46:54):
scratch or doing it by someother means to make me want to
do it.

Yeah.

Mike (46:59):
So I mean, that's all design stuff, and some of it's
technology too, and advancementand and capability of these
printers and things, but uhright now it's it's really it
it's it's a medium.
I have not I've not fallen inlove with it yet.
I mean, no doubt there's someamazing things, and I've got
some amazing things.
You know, you mentionedMattings already twice.

(47:20):
I've got some Churchill partsthat he sent me uh that I every
bit intend to use.
And I'll go I'll go out as farto say he's an exception.
He's he's thought about this alittle bit more than most people
have, maybe a lot more.

Yes.

Mike (47:35):
And I think the stuff he's doing is not gonna be so not
going to give me as muchheartburn as some of this other
crap that's out there for sure.

You know, this kind of blends into our next
topic because talking aboutwhere we get inspiration for
modeling, yeah.
And you talked about doing thisfigure and having it come out
and then doing another one, andthe diorama started to do itself

(48:04):
and do it started to occur toyou in the in your mind.
Yes.
So I'm I'm not sure that not inaddition to all the technical
stuff this AI 3D printcombination's gonna give us, I'm
not so sure that it's not alsogonna provide inspiration.

Mike (48:25):
It could, because when I saw these quote unquote
photorealistic images of thesethings I'd prompted it for, this
diorama idea just starts itjust kind of gets a mind of its
own.

Yep.

Mike (48:38):
And and I didn't expect that.
Maybe I should have.
But yes, this is our secondtopic of our shop talk as an
inspiration.
Uh listener asked if we couldconsider it, and maybe they're a
newer listener, or or well,they could even come on board in
the last four years probablyand and not heard the last time

(48:59):
we talked about inspiration.
This was unexpected, I guess.

Yeah.

Mike (49:04):
And it's it's funny because I've got this BT5
project that is is kind ofstarting to coalesce around my
conversations with Evan,Panzermeister 36.
And maybe that's where thiscomes together.
Maybe we got a retreating BT5,and he's screaming at these kids
and making them look at lookback at the way they're looking

(49:26):
at them.
I don't know.
That could be it.
But I start playing with this,start dabbling in it and going
back and forth with the prompts,and this picture keeps changing
and changing and changing andchanging, and like bam, they're
like, okay, that might be it.

Yeah.

Mike (49:41):
That might that might be where I stop because that looks
that looks convincing.
That looks like something Iwould want.
Uh so it yeah, completelyunexpected avenue of inspiration
that even if you didn't takethose and go do the 3D print,
the STL file and 3D print ofthose figures, if you didn't
take that route.

Right.

Mike (50:02):
Um, you could use these these photos to to sculpt your
own or to modify other figures,which you know I talked about
with Jake that I really don'tlike doing, but uh somebody else
might.

Yeah.

Mike (50:13):
And it would be a way to do that.
So and we've had some listenerswrite in about using AI for
generating ideas for bases formodels.

Mm-hmm.
So yeah, that's another way away to display.

Mike (50:26):
But in but in general, that that's all just brand new
inspirational avenues for me inthe last three weeks, really,
because I don't I didn't evenconsider them until we talked to
Jake.

I know.
I know.
That's amazing to me.
Speaking of inspiration, youalso mentioned another place
inspiration has come to youfrom, and that is with this BT5
thing with Evan.
You start talking with a fellowmodeler about a particular
subject that you and and thatperson are interested in.

(51:04):
Yeah.
And the next thing you know,you're inspired to start putting
the project together.
Now, you all haven't startedcutting plastic or anything.

Mike (51:14):
I took all the support structure off my 3D printed uh
BT5 upper hull.

Okay.

Mike (51:20):
I I I did do that.
And Evan's gonna benefit, he'sgonna benefit from that because
I can tell him where all thegotchas are.

Oh, okay.
Well, that's good.
Nice of you to do that.

Mike (51:31):
Should take it with me, man.
I put it on the pile of stuffto take the heritage con.

Well, I'd say I've got some some 3D printed
stuff to take the Heritage Conto.

Mike (51:41):
But anyway, you're you're right.
It's it's mutual admiration fora subject that can get you
going.
Yeah.
For sure.

Yep.
I mean, if you're you'resitting there talking, for me,
if I'm sitting there talkingwith, say, Jeff Groves, Inch
High, and we both have aninterest in World War II
Japanese aircraft, and we starttalking about either the latest
kit or a conversion or somethingthat we're both interested in,

(52:09):
you start to feed off of eachother.
And one idea bounces to thenext, bounces to the next, and
before you know it, you're allhot to trot on a project that
you weren't even thinking aboutbefore the conversation.

Mike (52:25):
Yeah.

So I do think we draw inspiration from each other
in addition to other places,which is again one of the
reasons Mike and I like to talkabout people interacting at
shows and all, because again,that human interaction leads to

(52:46):
that inspiration.
And if you're sitting in yourhobby room by yourself, never
really interacting with othermodelers, you're not going to
get the benefit of that.
And it's worth getting.
It is something that reallydoes provide you with an extra

(53:08):
something to your modeling.

Mike (53:10):
Well, what's something else, even if we've talked about
it five years ago, that's stilla major major source of
inspiration for you?

Books, books are still, I mean, I'm very much, I
guess, being a lawyer orwhatever, reading a lot.
It's always been something thatI do.
And so reading particularlyhistories, combat histories,
overall strategic, tactical,operational, reading military

(53:41):
history always ends up inspiringme.
I've got at least a dozenprojects that I have in my mind,
at least, not in plastic yet,where I've been inspired by a
particular book or a particularset of books that make me want

(54:05):
to do a subject or subjects.
Ploesti being the one that thatjust pops to mind.
There's a book called uh BlackSunday.
And once I read that book, itwas like I I want to do these
things.
Now I need to get around todoing them.
We won't talk about that, butthat's that's where I got the

(54:29):
inspiration.
Now I know you're more photoinspired.

Mike (54:33):
I am, and a lot, a lot of it's still books.
I don't even I'll occasionallyread a a history like you do.
Right.
Or whatever.
I may if I can get it on audio,I'll probably do that instead.
Right.
But I'll I'll get a book.
I'll see I don't know whatwould what would inspire me to

(54:55):
even pull a book off the shelf.
It would probably be it's atopic I come back to time and
time again.
It's it's eBay Deutschland,eBay, German eBay, all the
snapshots on there that you canfind from that soldiers took,
particular you know, almost allof them are before 1944.

(55:15):
Right.
For for obvious reasons.
There's just so much stuff outthere, and and you'll find a
photo and then you'll go diggingin the books, and it's just it
I don't know what what wasthere, like random association
almost.
Yeah.
Would would be a way todescribe it.
It's you needle down and youyou you find there's a vehicle
you you want to or something.

(55:37):
There's a vehicle that catchesyour eye.
A photo, like even off Germany.
Okay, there's a T26 thatcatches my eye.
And I can think of this becauseI looked at it just the other
day, and it's that model 39, thefinal version of T26 that
nobody's ever plastic kitted.
It's run off the road in aditch, the turrets turned 180

(56:00):
degrees to the rear because itwas in retreat.
There's a Soviet kilometer signright next to it, and it would
make a great little vignette.
And that makes me want to go toall my books that have T26
information in them.

Yeah.

Mike (56:15):
And then I'd pull those out and I start looking.
I'm like, okay, well, I thinkmaybe that kit's got this part,
these parts, or this kit's gotthe others.
So then I go to the stash and Ipull out all those kits and I
start looking.
And next thing I know, I gotlike four books open and five
kits and the internet's open.
And you're down the rabbithole.
And I'm down the rabbit hole,man.

(56:36):
I'm like, okay, what would thistake?
What would this take?
And it's taking a littlelonger, but it's it's not this
BT5 project that uh Evans got mehot to do.
It's it's not unlike that.
Yeah.
Uh it's it's probably the thegenesis for that was the the
BT5, the the old Zvezda kit thatItalary started importing in

(56:58):
the 90s.

Yep.

Mike (57:00):
That's just awful.
And it's like, man, it's like abait and switch, right?
Right.
You can't get all excited, yougot this, finally, we got this
subject.
You get the kit, and like, ohmy God, this is terrible.
I can't, I can't live withthis.
So how do we do it?
Well, we don't.
We wait, we put it on the shelfand we wait, and then all these
BT7 kits start coming out, andthen all these BT2 kits start

(57:21):
coming out, and you start to seevarious components of what you
want to do in all that stuff.
And finally, somebody likeScott Demick and his cottage
industry produces an upper holefor the BT2 that gets you to a
BT5.
Then it all comes togetherbecause apparently nobody wants

(57:41):
to do one in plastic.

Well, they will as soon as you and Evan finish
yours.

Mike (57:46):
Well, luckily for this project, only one part will be
resin or replacement, really.
Right.
The rest will come from otherplastic kits, which plays into
the idea that maybe they shouldhave done it anyway.
Because it would have been abetter thing to do than some of
the crap they did come out with.
So this whole rabbit hole thingis is kind of where I get my

(58:09):
inspiration.
It's it's it's latching ontosomething and digging through my
own reference library anddigging through the internet and
and kind of figuring out whatmight be possible.
What do you do, Dave?

Well, again, most of mine is reading.
The one other thing I wouldmention for inspiration is going
to model shows and seeingmodels on the table because I
will go to a show and I'll seesomething, and I won't
necessarily want to replicatewhat that modeler has done.

(58:41):
But I'm either inspired by thepaint scheme or the weathering
technique or the kit that theyuse that uh I didn't realize you
could turn that kit into thatnice a model.
And so a lot of times it willbring me inspiration to then go

(59:04):
home and start, you know, I'llstart ruminating on it at the
show.
If I can find the modeler, I'llgo and talk to him.
And then from there go home andkind of like what you
described, start going down therabbit hole.
Okay, what do I want to do?
What would I like to try?
What would I want to pull fromwhat this person did, etc.?

(59:28):
And I find that alwaysinspirational.
The and the the I mean, you canfind inspiration at any model
show, big or small or whatever.
But when I go to something likeHeritageCon or the Nationals or
Amps, you know you're going tosee enough models of just

(59:50):
unbelievable quality that youwon't fail to be inspired by
them.

Mike (59:56):
Let me back up on something you just said.
Okay.
The you didn't know you couldget that good a model from that
kit or whatever.
That's kind of what you said.

Kentucky Dave (01:00:06):
Yes.

Mike (01:00:06):
Yep.
So a problem I have, and I'mgonna call it a problem because
it it it's it's scope creep fromthe onset of a project.
I'll get a kit and I'll openit, and I'm like, eh, I don't
like that.
I don't like that.
I could probably fix that.
That's maybe aftermarket, or Icould scratch this or whatever,

(01:00:28):
right?

Right.

Mike (01:00:30):
So I've got this project in my mind, and I've not built
it yet.
I've not cut a single part offthe sprue, but it's it's in the
stash.
I've thought about it a littlebit.
Then I go to a show and I seethat kit built.
And not only not only have Iseen it built, the modeler has
not addressed any of theshortcomings that I think the

(01:00:53):
kit has.

Right.

Mike (01:00:54):
And it still is an impressive model.
That's inspiring to me becauseI know if you built that kit raw
dog and it looks like that,yeah, that makes me want to
build it even more because Iknow if if that's what's gonna
look like out of the box, moreor less, how much better is it

(01:01:16):
gonna be?
Maybe none, but it inspires meto take that knowledge that it
it it already is pretty stinkinggood.
And anything I can do toimprove it is just gonna make it
that much better, unless Icompletely gaff it.
But um, you know what I'msaying.

Oh no, I know exactly what you're saying.

Mike (01:01:34):
So uh Yeah, you're right.
Shows that but for me it it'sseeing a kit that uh was built
up and now I now I know what thekit looks like looks like built
up.
I think that is a huge piece ofknowledge.

Yes.

Mike (01:01:47):
Whether it's and well, I was I was gonna say whether it's
online or social media or live,but I think seeing it live is
is the most is the mostimpressive.
Yes.
The most the mostinspirational.

I love seeing a beautiful model on Facebook or
you know, on the internet orwhatever, but there is nothing
like seeing it in 3D in person.

Mike (01:02:12):
No matter how they built it.
Exactly.
Well, Dave, I think we're gonnastop with two topics.
I think I think we we waxedpretty good there.

I think so too.

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Mike (01:03:25):
All right, Dave, it's the bench top halftime report.
And uh I got a bad feelingabout that.

I was gonna say you better have a lot to report
because I got almost nothing.

Mike (01:03:37):
It's the third third episode in a row, man.

Well, I know, but I did get some stuff done last
time.
But to be honest with you, Ihave not touched a model in nine
days.

Mike (01:03:50):
It just what about the other five?

Well, I got a little bit done uh on the on the
on the Hellcat, but I really inthe last nine days have not
touched a model.
It's a combination of familystuff, spring getting here, and
having to start doing all of thehousekeeping and and yard
keeping stuff.
In fact, I don't know aboutyou, but I cut my lawn for the

(01:04:18):
first time on it yesterday onSunday.

Mike (01:04:21):
I'm not I haven't yet, but I'm not far behind.
I I need to.
The back's gonna have to be cuthere before I before I go to
Harriscon.

I hear you.
And turns out a a tree close tomy house, uh, the trunk is
split, so I've had to startcutting it down.
Then, of course, the pole sawthat I'm using, the chainsaw
pole saw that I'm using losesits locking nut or locking
screw, and you know, just onething after another.

(01:04:51):
And then, of course, at thispoint, that's the time that work
decides to become very, verybusy.
Sure, why not?
It's life.
I am not going to would I liketo get more modeling done?
Yes.
I'm not gonna stress about it.
I am not going to putartificial pressure on myself

(01:05:11):
and make myself feel bad becauseI'm not getting to the hobby
bench to do something that I dofor relaxation.
So it is what it is, and I'llgo forward from there.

Mike (01:05:24):
What did you get done?
No, you're not getting off thateasy, man.

Well, I did what I did was some oil panel washing
on the on the Hellcat, which isabout halfway through.
In addition, I built thatlittle Sea Hun sub last year for
the Moosaroo, and I want totake it to I want to take it to
HeritageCon, but the littlepropeller had come off, so I had

(01:05:50):
to reattach that.
But I am going to be takingthat to HeritageCon and we'll go
from there.
But yeah, not a lot.

Mike (01:05:58):
How about you?
Well I'm on the KV eighty-fivenow because the moose through
cup's done.
Yay.
We talked about that ad nauseumlast time.
The tow cable turnbuckles I wasruminating about last time and
time before that and the timebefore that probably.
Have a solution path now.

I I liked your solution.
It really was a great idealittle idea.

Mike (01:06:21):
So I figured out a way to make a bending jig for some
brass wire to make the hooks onthe ends.
And I've got some Albion Alloysaluminum tubing to make the
center section.
And uh I think it's gonna workout.

Well, I don't know if you posted it on the
dojo yet, but you sent me apicture of one of these things,
and it looks really, reallygood.

Mike (01:06:43):
Well, I did post it on the dojo, and I posted it along
with uh a company who's doing 3Dprint turnbuckles, and I'm
like, well, I could go thisroute, but I can't imagine how
fragile the 3D print crap is,given how fragile the kit parts
were.

Right.

Mike (01:06:58):
So mine's gonna be like solid metal.

So Right.
Even if yours is not does nothave any more finesse to it, it
at least is much more sturdy.

Mike (01:07:10):
Oh, that's way more robust.
So I've got all the hooks made.
I figured out a way to do thecenter section.
I gotta figure out how to drillthrough the the center of the
the cent the center of thecenter section uh to to put the
the the lever to you know thethe cheater bar you use a yeah
to turn the turnbuckle with.

Yeah.

Mike (01:07:29):
You know, Liang makes something that might work.
Oh, do they?
Yeah, they got a they got atool for that.

Oh, that's that center drilling tool.

Mike (01:07:39):
Well, it's one of them.
They got a well, I'm I'm sureAdam will let me know.
Uh it's a solvable problem atthis point.
The hooks were the hard part.
Gotcha.
So a little little uh bendingjig uh search on on the Googles
and like, okay, I think Iunderstand what I need to do.

(01:07:59):
And I may I built a little jigout of drill bits and close your
ears, Christian Gurney, butwhen we were doing our little
wooden aka poker chip things, hesent me some that were not
quite up to snuff, so one ofthose became the the hardwood
base I needed for my bendingjig.

Well, I'm sure he'd be thrilled with that.

Mike (01:08:19):
Well, I hope so.

I'll bet you he'd be thrilled that you got that
use out of it.

Mike (01:08:24):
He he liked the Musaru scheme, even though uh I'd
aligned his uh business with anwith a laxative.
All in good fun.
All in good fun, you're right.
KV85, so that's for such a tinypart, it's a huge leap forward.
So looking forward to gettingthose knocked out.
I got all the hooks made.

(01:08:44):
I'm working on the centersections as soon as I figure out
the the way to get a goodaccurate drill for the cheater
bar, those will be done.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:08:53):
So that gets me down the road pretty far with that.
That 3D printed flak panzer I'mworking on.
I'm back on it too.
No are you?
It was gonna be a kind of apaint mule kind of thing.

Right.

Mike (01:09:06):
But you know me, man.

I know you.
You can't you can't you can'tdo anything halfway.

Mike (01:09:12):
So there's a short list of quote cannot live withs on that
kit.
And it's pretty much the gunbarrels.
Right.
Which I got I got some reallygreat ones from Aver.
Yeah.
Really, really nice.
The road wheels, which I talkedabout last time, those came in.
I've got those now.
So we'll be using some resincast road wheels for their

(01:09:33):
Hetzer wheels, is what they are.
Uh now it's the perforatedmuffler shroud.
I don't know how you know howyou've been referring to scope
creep before.
I know, and this is man, thisis a good example of that.
So I I print the thing, and I Idon't know what the designer

(01:09:54):
did, but so it's it's a it's aform sheet metal piece with a a
perforated pattern of holes init.

Right.

Mike (01:10:01):
So and they're like staggered, one rows this way,
then you stagger.

Right.

Mike (01:10:05):
So it's like on, off, on, off, on, off.
Well, when you go around thebends in this thing, I don't
know how it happened, but theCAD model, the the hole pattern
gets lost.
So when you clear all the holesand you have the finished
thing, it just it's just likeit's all helterskelter.
It doesn't look doesn't lookright.

Right.

Mike (01:10:26):
And it's right there on the top of the rear end of this
tank.
And like not living with it.
So I printed it, I've cleanedup all the holes, and I'm like,
uh I don't know what happenedhere, but something something
messed up when he when they didthis.
Right.
In the cat in the cat design.
Something's not right.
So I've I ordered uh I found aguy selling a big stack of the

(01:10:50):
the Aber mesh and perforatedmetal sheets.
It's a lot.
So I bought those.
So I've I've got uh I've got aphotoette sheet now, it's got
the right hole pattern in it.

Gotcha.

Mike (01:11:01):
So I'm gonna try to make a new one out of photoetch brass.
So there you go.

All right.
Well, at least eight.
Even if it's scope creep, it'sone where you think you've come
up with a with a fairly quickand dirty solution to it.

Mike (01:11:16):
Yeah.
Now I think I think so.

Just don't let it creep any further.

I hope not, man.
Plastic model mojo is broughtto you by Squadron.
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accessories, all at a greatprice and with great service.
Squadron, adding to the stashsince 1968.

Mike, this is our faves and yawn segment, and I
gotta say, for the first time ina long time, a little
disappointing.

Mike (01:11:54):
Folks, it's really interesting because we were
talking before we pushed therecord button tonight.
We came to the same conclusionindependently.

Yes, we did.

Mike (01:12:04):
I don't know what's going on, man.
The Shizuoka hobby shows inMay.
Maybe they're sandbagging.
Right.
You know, the Nuremberger wasin February.

Yep.

Mike (01:12:14):
Shizuoka is coming up here in in May.

So this may be a dead time.

Mike (01:12:20):
It may be a dead time.
So still, did you I mean, youled the segment.
Do I get to go first?

Yeah, go ahead.

Mike (01:12:28):
You know, there's some things that are interesting.
It's not like there's nothingout there, but agreed.
The the full-blown shrink wrapboxed injection molded kit front
is a little weak.

Yes, it is.

Mike (01:12:41):
I got a couple here, but uh we'll get to those.
First up, man, from our sponsorsquadron.
A couple of things.
There's a in 48th scale,there's a Klee Track M2 tow
tractor.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:12:53):
Klee Track Cleveland Cleveland Tractor Company.

Yep.

Mike (01:12:57):
Made these tow tractors for for uh rough airfield
service.
Brandon and company is doingone now in 3D print, a little
kit in 48th scale to go with allthe 48th scale bomber kits out
there.
Because, you know, until now,uh there's probably been some
resin ones here and there overthe years.
But the the only one in thatwas really easily available was

(01:13:21):
the one that's in the themonogram B29.
Yeah, the monogram B24.

And it's like Oh yeah, 25.

Mike (01:13:29):
This is a little hyperbolic, but it was almost
just a left and right half thatyou just glue together.
Yeah.
The point is there wasn't muchto it.
Real curious what they gotgoing on here with this little
kit in 48th scale.
So should be popular for them,I think.
Yep.
I think so too.
And before you before you go,I'm gonna double up because

(01:13:50):
they're both from Squadron.
An M5 high-speed tractor in35th scale.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:13:57):
Now, I did a look around.
I don't think there's anybody'sdone the M5 in 35th scale yet.
There's a long history of M4s.

Yeah.

Mike (01:14:07):
Ravel did one ages ago.
That's an old almost box scalekit.
Nitto from Japan has had one.

I remember that one.

Mike (01:14:17):
That one's probably not very good either.
And then Hobby Boss has acouple, maybe three, two or
three versions in 35th scale.
But it's the M4, it's not thesame tractor.
So a a tow tractor that wasused in the Second World War
that's not been really coveredyet in 35th scale.

So Yeah, you always want something new.

Mike (01:14:41):
So it's something new.
There you go.

Well, you're right, Mike, that's not
completely barren out there.
There's a company that I'venever heard of.
Apparently, it's 3D printcalled KM Models, and they do a
pair of German fuel trailers.
Basically, one's just twowheels and a frame that one of

(01:15:05):
those 200-liter barrels goes on.
And then they have a biggerversion of it where it has two
200-liter barrels.
And if you were going to do aGerman airfield diorama of any
sort, these things would lookreally good, especially maybe
with a 70-second scale Ket andKrad or one of the little

(01:15:26):
tractors or even horse-drawn.
I can see this being quiteuseful.
It really looks good.
Of course, it's 3D print from acompany that I've never heard
of before.
So, you know, the images lookgood, but you don't know what
you're getting.
So if any listener out therehas any experience with this
company, please let us have yourinput because I'm tempted by

(01:15:50):
these things, but I don't wantto spend the money if it's not
up to snuff.
So help a guy out.

Mike (01:15:57):
Well, I'm happy the next one's in 48 scale because if it
if it was in 30 second scale,I'd probably be tempted to buy
it.
Okay.
Round two, AHM.
Yep.
They got a tie bomber in 48scale.

Yep.

Mike (01:16:10):
Looks like a good one.
That's gonna be popular withthe sci-fi crowd.
But I really like the largerscale, the TIE fighter I got.
I really need to get that thingbuilt, man.

I know, I hear you.
Maybe that's the Musuru nextyear.

Mike (01:16:26):
I I seriously doubt it.

So do I.
But it could be.
So do I.
You got anything else?
Yeah, I got one other thing,and this is something that you
and I mentioned.
Because 3D print is able to bedone in multiple scales.
Uh-huh.
When you look on a website likeScalemates, you will see the

(01:16:48):
same item listed with individuallistings for each individual
scale from like 16th scale allthe way to 87th scale or
whatever.
And it really makes itdifficult to scroll through and
look for look for new items.

Mike (01:17:08):
You got to use the filters.

You do have to use the f the scale filters to
filter out.
And frankly, if I was going tosuggest a change to scalemates,
that they that what they do ishave one entry with multiple
scales.
Yeah, available in multiplescales.

Mike (01:17:27):
And have it if if someone were to search a specific scale,
it would still show up there.

Right.

Mike (01:17:33):
But but for the general view, there wouldn't be 25
entries of the same thing.

Of the same thing.
It just gets a littleirritating to scroll through.
So that's that's a pet peeve.
It's something that irritatedme, and you mentioned it, it
irritated you.
So if it irritates both of us,I figure there are at least a
couple other modelers out therewhom it irritates.

Mike (01:17:55):
Oh, I got one more.
Okay.
Just for conversation.
Okay.
Trumpeter, 116th scale,Ferdinand Tank Destroyer.

Oh, come on.
That thing would have to beIt's going to be pretty big.
Two and a half feet long, threefeet long?

Mike (01:18:17):
No, I don't mean three feet long, but 20 inches, maybe.

God.

Mike (01:18:21):
It's pretty big.
18 at least.

Not only long, but bulky.
I mean, that thing is thatthing is not small.
It's not small.
I was gonna say you and I haveboth stood next to the real
thing.

Mike (01:18:34):
That yeah, we have.

And oh my gosh, I cannot imagine.
And again, you and I'vereferenced this on 16th scale.
And the bigger the item, themore true it is.
How you keep that from lookinglike a toy.
I'm sure there are guys outthere who are artists,
especially some of these AMPSmodelers who are just absolutely

(01:18:57):
magicians.

Mike (01:18:58):
Well, like Dave Parker at the AFE Modeler.
Right.
He's taking he's taken on someof these, and it's is it's
amazing the fidelity detail hecan get in that scale.

Yeah.
But you really have to get downto the details on something
that big.

Mike (01:19:14):
Yeah, Spud Murphy's done some Sherman's and stuff.
It's just really, reallyamazing stuff.
But uh for for me, it gets downto shelf space at a retail
shop.
Yeah.
Uh just yeah.
That's that's kind of thelimiting thing.

I think Yeah, can you imagine one of those
Japanese or Hong Kong shops?
Where the heck would you putthat box?

Mike (01:19:36):
Well, you get you have like one of each, maybe?
I guess.
I'm sure.
Well, it's trumpeter, so Idon't I don't know how good it's
gonna be.
Right.
But somebody like Dave Parkeris gonna do something completely
amazing with this thing.

Oh, yeah.

Mike (01:19:52):
And and to pull the silver lining out of the cloud, a
Ferdinand's on my listeventually.
And if somebody like him, DaveParker, took on this project and
and made it a two year,three-year thing like some of
the other projects he's done.

Yeah.

Mike (01:20:08):
Uh I'm gonna learn a lot about the Ferdinand.
Right.
Regardless of what scale Ibuild it in.

Yep.

Mike (01:20:14):
So there you go.

That's that is indeed the silver lining.

Mike (01:20:20):
But for me, it's way too big.
And I mean Yeah.

I can't imagine what it costs.

Mike (01:20:27):
I've got like a handful of kids I'd like to see them go
ahead and finish either them hottrumpet or hobby boss.
Yeah.
And that that is so far removedfrom the list, it's not even
funny.

Yeah.

Mike (01:20:38):
Yet they're that's what they're doing.
It's their company, right?

It's their company, that's right.
Well, that's all I got.

Mike (01:20:46):
Me too, man.

Plastic Model Mojo is brought to you by
Model Paint Solutions, yoursource for harder and steambeck
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This is the time in the episode where we ask if
you have not rated the podcaston whatever app you're listening
to it, please go rate it.
Give it the highest rating soit becomes more visible to more
people.
Also, if you have a modelingfriend that does not listen to
Plastic Model Mojo, pleaserecommend us to them.

(01:21:37):
Please tell them about theshow, show them how they can
listen.
The best way for us to continueto grow is a recommendation
from a current listener.
So we would appreciate it ifyou did that.

Mike (01:21:50):
In addition, check out all the other podcasts out in the
model sphere.
You can do that by going towww.modelpodcast.com.
That's model podcastplural withan s dot com.
It's a consortium website setup by Stuart Clark as a scale
model podcast up in Canada.
He's aggregated all the bannerlinks to the all the current
podcasts out in the modelsphere.
You can go there for a one-stopshop to uh find all the links

(01:22:13):
to all the podcasts.
In addition, Plastic Model Mojohas a lot of friends out there
in the model sphere, doing someblogs, YouTube channels, and
podcasts.
We've mentioned Evan McCallumseveral times tonight.
His YouTube channel isPanzermeister36.
If you're into armor andweathering, you're going to want
to check that out.
And the occasional HO scalerailroad uh rolling stock

(01:22:34):
weathering thing.
You can enjoy that there aswell.
70 second scale, Sprue Pie withFretz, Stephen Lee.
Also some model railroadcontent, but it's all smaller
scale, HO and 72nd scale.
Long and short form blog.
Check that out and see whatSteve's got to say at uh Sprue
Pie with Fretz.

He's always got something interesting to say on
a topic.

Mike (01:22:55):
He does.
And on the topic of 70 secondscale, Jeff Groves, the
InchIGuy, InchIGuy blog, 70second scale centric.
You're going to like whatJeff's got going on, batch
builds or whatever, kit reviews.
He's always got something goingon in 70 seconds scale if
you're so inclined.
We had a listener wanting more48 scale content.
He can get that at ModelAirplane Maker.

(01:23:17):
Our friend Chris Wallace andour host for HeritageCon.

Yep.

Mike (01:23:20):
Great blog, great YouTube channel, models in 48 scale.
He just did another uh SharkMouth.

Yep.

Mike (01:23:26):
Doing some masking.
Amazing work.
It looks tedious, but uh turnedout good.
So that'd be a good place to gofor some 48-scale aircraft
content.
That would be uh modelerplaymaker.
Finally, Paul Budzick, wementioned him a lot, scale model
workshop.
Lots of tips and tricks of thetrade.
All come from a deep uh well ofwisdom from Paul's longtime

(01:23:49):
time in the hobby.
So check it out on Patreon andYouTube.

If you're not a member of IPMS USA, please
consider joining the nationalorganization or joining your
national organization in yourcountry.
IPMS USA is a group ofvolunteers who work and give up
some of their modeling time totry and make the modelers'

(01:24:13):
experience better.
It's a good organization fullof people who really have the
best interest of the hobby atheart.
If you are into armor modelingor post-1900 figure modeling,
take a look at the ArmorModeling and Preservation
Society, AMPS.
It's a really, really goodgroup of modelers, very

(01:24:37):
talented, and they're reallydedicated to advancing the art
of armor modeling.
Mike and I are going to be attheir nationals in a month or
so.
And I I can't wait, I'll tellyou, I really can't wait.
Mike, we're almost at the endof the episode, and I can tell

(01:25:01):
you, modeling fluid-wise, whileit doesn't have quite the kick
that a bourbon or a beer does,the McDonald's fountain coke
never disappoints.
I'm at the end, it's all gone.
It was wonderful.
I get I can't recommend ithighly enough.
I hope he can get to sleeptonight.

(01:25:22):
Oh, I got that book.
I won't have a bit of problemwith that.

Mike (01:25:26):
Or I have to get up and go to the restroom.

Yeah, well, that probably.
That's true anyway.

Mike (01:25:31):
How about you?
Russell's Reserve tenure is abargain for a 10-year bourbon.
I've said it many times.
I've got a lot of feedback fromlisteners who agree.

Yep.

Mike (01:25:42):
Uh, if you wanted just a really good bourbon that's got a
lot of flavor, that's notterribly expensive.
The Russell's Reserve tenure isgoing to be for you.
So check it out.

We are now truly at the end of the episode, and
it's time for some shout-outs.
And I'll let you go first, butI've got one too.

Mike (01:26:05):
Well, I've got two, so I'll go first and pick up at the
end.
As always, I want to shout outall the folks who have chosen to
contribute contribute toPlastic Model Mojo through the
generosity.
If you'd like to support ourshow financially, we really
appreciate it.
And we've had several folks dothat.
You can do that through severalavenues, and those are all can
be found at the Support the Showlink at Plasticmodel Mojo.com.

(01:26:27):
Thank you, folks.
It helps us uh defer the costof this show and bring you new
stuff all the time.
So thank you very much.

Yes, I would uh add my thanks as well.
We really do appreciate it.
It's it it means a lot to Mikeand I that that people care
enough not only to listen but tosupport the show and make it a
little bit easier for us tobring you the show.
In addition, I'd like to shoutout all the listeners who've

(01:26:55):
reached out to find out if we'regoing to be at this show or
that show, Indie, Amps,HeritageCon, etc.
I've I've said it repeatedly,and it's absolutely 100% true.
The interactions with thelisteners are truly the best
part of this show.

(01:27:15):
It's one of the reasons thatMike and I love the listener
mail and the DM segments,because truly what we're it what
we're getting out of this is weare getting out, we are getting
interactions with fellowmodelers who if we weren't doing
this, we may have never met.

(01:27:37):
And there's always somethinggreat that comes out of an
interaction with a listener.
So thank all of you who areinterested enough to reach out
and say, Hey, are you going tobe at this show or that show?
Because the one thing Mike andI really love when we go to
shows is getting to talk tolisteners.

(01:27:59):
Because we get goodinteractions from mails or DMs,
but the best interactions we getwhere we can sit there and
dynamically ask people, oh, youliked this, you didn't like
this.
It just leads to greatconversation.
So thank all of you who'vereached out.
And please, if you're at a showand we're there, come up and

(01:28:22):
talk to us.
We want to talk to you.
Well, I got one more, Dave.
Okay, give it to me.

Mike (01:28:27):
I want to shout out all the folks who we talked to for
the April Model Show Spotlight.

Yes.

Mike (01:28:34):
I want to thank Mike Radsky from the IPMS Roscoe
Turner chapter, and we may behearing more from him in the
spring and summer because he hada really good idea.

Yeah.

Mike (01:28:42):
Uh so we'll see about capitalizing on that.
Uh Brad Guy, Dan Holmes from uhthe Commies Fest crowd.
They got some cool stuff goingon.
It was nice to hear that.
And then finally, JamesMorondano from uh the Wine
Country Model Club and the WineCountry Model Expo.
Just a really interestingconversation.
All this kind of just flowedtogether, and I think it was

(01:29:03):
probably our right now it's ourpinnacle model show spotlight
we've ever done.
And I just really appreciateeverybody having their stuff
together and having great thingsto say about their respective
shows.
And I hope they're all justrousing successes.

Yes, I I I second that.
I hope that all of you, all ofthe different clubs have nothing
but success with their shows.
And the thing that I likedabout this model show Spotlight
was the three shows we featuredwere different, and each had a
particular focus, a particularidea, and it's nice to see the

(01:29:43):
interaction with the differentuh clubs and what they're doing,
and so that clubs can startborrowing ideas from each other
because I really do think showsare getting better and better.

Mike (01:29:57):
Well, I hope so, because uh me too.
We we got a lot of stake ifthey don't.

Yeah.

Mike (01:30:04):
Well, Dave, you got anything else tonight?

Mike, I'm ready for HeritageCon, and you know
what they say.
So many kids.

Mike (01:30:12):
So little time, Dave, and I'll see you Friday and we'll
get it on up the road.
Sounds great.

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