NORMS, Mercury, and PFAS in oil & gas decommissioning

In this episode of Plugging Away, we sit down with industry experts from OLEOLOGY to discuss the critical aspects of managing naturally occurring radioactive materials (NORMs), mercury, and PFAS in oil and gas production and decommissioning. Our guests, Paul and Saasha Callaghan from OLEOLOGY, join CODA’s Francis Norman and Shaun Sadler to delve into the challenges and opportunities associated with decommissioning oil and gas infrastructure. They highlight the need for effective removal methods, comprehensive waste management pathways, and the adoption of a holistic perspective on decommissioning. We explore the latest advancements in water treatment technologies, the importance of regulatory compliance, and the commercial viability of emerging solutions.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So welcome to the latest edition of the
quarter plug grey podcast, your go to source
for in discussions and insights into the world
of Oil and gas d commissioning.
We're
delighted today to be having a conversation with
with the good people from audio ideology.
Who will fill us in and give us
share a lot of their thoughts and expertise

(00:21):
around
around management of
of the materials with which their work.
So to get that started then, if I
can just work around the room and get
people to introduce themselves. And who you are,
then as we go forward, you won't need
to have your voices and see our my
name is also. So well, norman Paul Call,
my name. By that's Francis.

(00:44):
Well, if you would go by norman, that'd
be a whole lot better.
Retains an anonymity.
Well Francis. My name's is Paul Call,
director at Oli ideology where...
We we do a lot of standard things.
We provide people
solutions for
oil and waste management,

(01:06):
but principally, we're
innovative research and development company taking
technologies into fields that they haven't been before
utilizing those technologies to reduce waste principally,
a lot of people focus on the process
and forget about what happens with the waste
streams that ema from those said processes.

(01:26):
And what that really means to the environment
in the community in which the waste ultimately
have to end up. So
focus becomes a 1 minimize the waste
improve the efficacy of removal, and this becomes
really applicable to some of these
emerging technologies
to battle those known contaminants that have been

(01:46):
around for quite a period of time.
So we've been very prominent
in the P space
a work on development for removal of Mercury
has been going on from
10 plus years.
And norms is something that we're heavily into
at the present stage. So I'm looking forward
to talking further with you about that.

(02:07):
Excellent. So, Sasha.
Francis,
good to be here.
Yes, another cali in the room. Sasha Call.
And very fortunate to be a part of
the journey with ideology and and all of
its
initiatives that has taken to the market, which
has been fantastic.
It's good to be here.

(02:28):
Very good. And my colleague or in the
corner there Sean. Yep. Shawn Sad I'm the
general manager a code,
delighted to be involved in the conversation with
you.
We're doing a lot of work at the
moment,
encode, are looking at waste management pathways.
And the work that
does obviously plugs right into into that. So

(02:48):
looking forward to the conversation. And particular understanding
more about capabilities in relation to some of
these key contaminants.
You heard. So if I kick off with
the with the first
material of interest,
Norms. We hear a lot. You know, it's
it's a very high profile. We a lot
of discussion in com space around norms, that's
naturally occurring radioactive materials.

(03:11):
Paul, we know, where where are these found?
What do we... What do what do we
know about them? What do we...
How do we then start to manage them
as we as we go into d commissioning?
Norms are really interesting because,
the conversation is, principally around the oil and
gas area, but norms are something that have
been dealt with in the mining industry, for

(03:31):
instance, for a long period of time.
So the very start of norms says the
word naturally occurring, and that
is the part that a lot of people
seem to fail to realize, you know, in
a community wide
level of interest.
So these materials
are in evidence

(03:53):
in lots of areas around Australia.
We we've
become involved because
principally, we're able to remove the other contaminants
that
end up
in pipelines and, facilities
for the oil and gas industry and and
norms is an area that

(04:15):
1 of our partner groups that we work
with and technology development
in our innovations area,
did a lot of work with for,
removal ces
as a result of Fukushima.
So
that proven technology has application for us,
has a adjunct to the other text that

(04:37):
we employ to treat
mercury and and so forth. And and like
any contaminant,
it doesn't appear on its own in water.
So the contaminant of target is often
shielded by... Well, the range of coke contaminants
that exist in that,

(04:57):
phase whether it's water or or air or
other. And so 1 has to consider dealing
with
potentially
zoom the oils or the bt x as
a residual the organic contaminants,
the mercury that might be in existence and
then the norms.
You can't just have 1...

(05:18):
You can't have 1 material as part of
a process to try and, deal with
that targeted element because in the end that
ends up being blinded by the c contaminants
of have a short short level of operational
excellence before you have blinding and and breakthrough.
So the the focus is around trading norms.

(05:39):
That in order to treat norms, what else
needs to be removed
before we can get to that point where
the polishing material that's required for the norms
treatment
has a high level of efficacy
and service life.
Because if we don't have high levels of
efficacy and service life, we generate a lot

(06:00):
more waste.
Use the word in there that
maybe might be worth just going back to
polishing.
Polishing is the final stage
that you... If we talk about water treatment,
and this could be analogous to any range
of contaminants.
Polishing and this is the stage where you
get to low levels of

(06:21):
contaminant
concentration residual in the water.
You take those out by polishing.
Everything beforehand
is generally
high levels of concentration removal or removal of
competing
contaminants
that would otherwise
compete for sites on the polishing material.

(06:41):
So in order to develop a robust
system,
1 that can treat highs and lows of
varying contaminants and concentration levels
across a whole range and suite of
different
contaminants that arise in water
that arise from different waste streams being added
at different times.

(07:02):
The nature of which
we always
are aware of, but
don't always get the full disclosure from potential
operators or clients, and not for any reason
of wanting to hide it, but it's just
simply not known into them. These other areas
of competition.
So, you know, in an ion exchange, there's...

(07:24):
There are very specific ions that are targeted
for removal by the polishing material.
However,
the performance and efficacy of the iron exchange
can be radically impede
by the inclusion or failure to remove
of c contaminants and, you know, simply like

(07:44):
emotions. So something that's designed to have a
robust life
and and service period of, months or years,
may in fact have breakthrough through after a
very short period of time, and we can
talk about days and weeks.
So it's case of designing their system
for everything that's in the line. And then
as you say, polishing it out when it

(08:05):
gets to, once you've captured all the, let's
call it the easier to catch it. It
is it it is exactly that. And the
great thing with the advancement of technology is
the analogy that you've drawn or the concept
that you've
highlighted on is something that everybody's known for
many years.
But
the problem has been

(08:25):
that the technologies that have been available in
order to achieve that have been very large
and cumbersome
have been slow process
And as a result of that,
are not really possible. You certainly couldn't put
them offshore because it just takes up too
much real estate.
You can put them onshore.
But again, there's a large capital cost in

(08:46):
developing that particular piece of plant and equipment
monitoring and maintaining it
all of all of that. So
where technology has really
leap forward is the ability to reduce the
footprint
and
maintain
efficacy and be robust.
So the principal

(09:07):
to which we work with is utilizing
equipment,
which essentially remains as a sentinel
and is only called into action in in
the chemical sense
when the contaminant of affinity is in the
water.
Otherwise, it remains there in inert.

(09:27):
And so the ability then to have a
robust system is 1 of we can cater
for a much wider range of coke contaminants
in the water,
treat to low levels
But before we get down to that polishing
stage
we've homo the water.
So we have a robust system that's able

(09:49):
to treat water
to very low levels of contaminant
concentration at the discharge end
but that's as a result of what happens
very early on in the sequence of stages
of water treatment. Very good. Thank you.
This is getting very technical. It's very good.
Very interesting. Yeah. I was wondering if,

(10:10):
Are you were able to to talk about
the the the technologies or chemist
that are specific to
noise reduction in in water
systems.
I'm aware that there may be Ip issues
in that space. But in general, sense
what types of chemist do you use to
target norms.
We use wherever we can naturally occurring materials.

(10:34):
And so, yes, there is some Ip around
around this. So so... But those naturally occurring
materials enhanced in performance are are what we
utilize.
Now a lot of the norms are contained
within scale. So scale is relatively easy to
remove.
So we strip the scale out. And then
then you're down to materials where you're looking

(10:55):
more at
leaching.
And so
the...
The interesting part about the application of the
tech is that we can put it into
2 potential
scenarios. 1 is
to
bring the
material into contact with a surface from which

(11:17):
the,
norms are going to leach.
By doing so, we can accelerate the rate
of which the leaching occurs.
The second way is to allow the the
process of leaching to occur into a water
stream and then utilize that material as a
filtering element.
So process can be

(11:39):
adapted and that, you know, obviously,
if you can utilize
the the former,
whereby, we bring the product into contact with
the wall of a pipe for instance,
You can potentially do that in Sit,
and you can leave it there for a
period of time,
and then you can remove it and take

(12:00):
with it the contaminants,
And the key to what we do
where whether it be oil water treatment or
other is in just about all circumstances
the the chemistry that we utilize is fixed.
It's onto a solid of some sort, be
it infused into a filter or

(12:20):
utilizes a color
membrane,
or in this case,
utilize as an,
an infused element
as part of a solid. So we can
put that into situations where it's then easily
to remove.
We don't end up leaving
other chemicals
in water stream, which

(12:41):
may be problematic in the future.
It's 1 of about not leaving an environmental
footprint. So once you called it, filtered it
captured it or next?
Well,
In that instance there, we've got low levels
of
of waste in volume,
then there's other specific work we're doing with

(13:02):
a group that are based out of the
East coast,
where
ent in an en engagement into, fixed structure
has been shown
to reduce,
leaching
of radioactive waste.
That enables us to
looked towards deep burial.

(13:23):
We know there's a problem, and, you know,
something with a half million
year life or half life of a million
years is always gonna be problematic.
So the focus is how can we put
that into a situation, which has leased
impact for the community and the environment.
And so the answer lays in there

(13:46):
complete answer for you, probably not.
But really get it down to us as
consolidated
a pack as you can as dry as
you can clean all the water
and then find the best possible way to
manage that consolidated
material. Yes. Yeah. And and look out the
principle that guides us is the opposite of

(14:08):
what used to be
solution by dilution.
We're about
concentration into a very small mass.
And that small mass is far easier
and at lower risk to transport
as a contained waste.
And so we see many advantages
to that for,

(14:29):
environment community and and
industry itself ultimately because it becomes a cost.
But isn't 1 of the most interesting parts
that we see from Ideologies
perspective on the industry is, what can be
done in
you know, in place in the field
and not
having to cut things up, not having to

(14:49):
transport. We're trying to simplify the process where
possible,
and essentially, we wanna demonstrate that because not
has it really been achieved in the industry?
Probably not that what anyone's really aware of
or on big scale.
That we're aware of. Yes. Yeah. I would
say it absolutely that I'm aware of. I'm
not aware of anyone that's achieved that yet.

(15:11):
I'd say to it's a good to good
goal, to good target to have that to
be able to do this. So from a
from a regulatory perspective and from a compliance
perspective know, where where are you seeing the
the landscape
as that's going forwards.
It's quite a leading question. Yeah.
It it's

(15:31):
there are many
interested parties as
as pertains to the the regulation. And
as technology evolves, those regulations have become
somewhat tighter, compliance levels have reduced as far
as concentrations of wastes
in a particular affluent
develop.

(15:52):
We see the opportunity to be ahead of
what the regulation is now and reduced a
potential liability for operating companies,
as at now.
And and the big the big question I
think that sits
in part way to that answer in the
minds of of
people commercially is if I just need to

(16:12):
treat to what's required
in the regulation, and this is where the
the the answer becomes somewhat
open to a further debate.
Do I do I really need to do
anything more?
So on the commercial side, we say,
what's the difference between,

(16:33):
commercially at a at a in a a
rape per kilogram or per ton to treat
to,
say 95 percent of the requirement
or treat to 99.9
percent of what we know is then beyond
detection.
So so that's that's a commercial discussion. And
I... Because of the technology in the way

(16:54):
it's developed, the capital cost is almost the
same.
The operating cost is very little difference.
So
our question to
our clients is what do you want? To
do you want to remove potential future liability
to the best of your ability now, knowing
the technology that's available?

(17:16):
From the regulator point of view, the regulator
struggle,
and I'm talking generally here. The regulator struggle
with the
the understanding of what this new challenges is
in the community So
Be talking about a local council or are
we talking about the Epa,
the people who write up the stockholm convention?
Or you at what level do we talk

(17:36):
about regulation?
And where... And to which area does it
apply?
So
our simple premise is, can we get that
message to the regulator about the commercial availability
and inform them?
Of what is possible,
and it is not
commercially unavailable.

(17:57):
And we had similar discussions with the Us
Epa with regards to P some years ago.
And so that there... And it was interesting
in a forum discussion.
With, members of the Us Epa across the
Us.
Their their answer was we want to and
what the technologies are, the robustness of that

(18:17):
technology and its capability
and commercial
commercial reality.
Can it be implemented and can industry sustain
that cost.
So
with that, and I'm not saying we drove
the the change,
but there has been significant
reductions,
in the Us as an interesting case. If

(18:39):
you look at P,
and the
concentration that's now seen as compliance level you,
it's come down
in somewhere between 10 and the hundred fold
depending on which
compounds you look at it. But certainly, the
range of compounds has increased
and very interestingly. And this is... I find
this very interesting.

(19:01):
They've now introduced as it the first of
January this year, a method of looking at
a range of contaminants and assessing
the total of those
by a multiplication factor.
So it's not just looking at any 1
contaminant
and its
concentration and and ticking, yes, it's okay.

(19:22):
It's now looking at the range of those
contaminants,
using a multiplication factor in saying,
will it be above or below the harm
level. And that's particularly an application to drinking
water for them?
So there's a lot there's a lot changing
in this person. Isn't it's
it seems that the the regulations are
rationally tried to... Follow the technology in an

(19:43):
in an affordable way to make sure that,
that that we don't put something in that
that just is completely un feasible, follow while
also trying to do the best we can
in terms of the the outcomes.
And and and look in some regards, you
can almost take that
as you've said,
looking at what we can do now and
say,

(20:04):
do we have the best technology of Available
now to treat or should in fact, we
we wait.
Because as some of the emerging technologies
come to the fore
And and and we've only got ben scale
is the the possibility that that that technology
at ben scale can in fact,
be developed to industrial

(20:25):
application.
Because if that's if that's a feasible
answer, then perhaps there's reason,
to actually wipe 12 months.
Okay. So that... Maybe we move on from
norms,
another
material of concern and another 1 that that
comes up a lot is is around mercury?
You know, what what are we what are

(20:46):
we dealing with here from a mercury perspective?
Well, we're either considered lucky or unlucky to
have,
an abundance of gas, but also to be
1 of those few countries that are
tormented with mercury being in our in our
oil and gas fields,
this region through here heading north
I think there's a few spots over around

(21:06):
Germany and there's a couple of other spots
around the world, but
we we have Mercury. Luckily, we have
through My x and the
innovations that they've developed over the years, the
ability to treat mercury,
not only to treat it But to understand
its spec ocean, more so in water when

(21:26):
I talk about spec as compared to gas.
But there is there is an available technology
now that we have utilized here
in order to remove mercury from gas.
And it's... We've done some analysis work on
that
compared to,
conventional mercury removal units, which are very large

(21:48):
in size, big and capital cost
and generate a lot of waste.
The My x in
Me unit is very small in footprint
is able to coalesce mercury
from a gas stream.
With very little contact time.
Very little pressure drop. So we're able to

(22:09):
then remove
mercury,
almost at will from gas. In either gas
or or vapor type states,
In addition to that, we end up with
mercury and other forms in in waste wastewater.
So in the waste and produce water,
mercury

(22:30):
tends to, make its way into an elemental
in a in a small percentage,
c collateral, and then ion mercury. So
The technology that we have now allows us
to
that. So we understand what form the mercury
takes
within a within a water stream.
And

(22:51):
as a result of understanding it,
we're then able to apply the correct level
of technology
to remove that from the process. So so
that's in treating it
in conventional systems
similarly, I guess when we get into the
area of d,
we see mercury and,

(23:12):
scale
inside pipes.
Yeah, and so
as a result of leaching that out, Mercury
will come out in its various forms as
well. So firstly,
understanding what form in is key to understanding
how to best remove it.
From there, we're able to
develop and design the system in order to,

(23:35):
treat those forms of mercury
and the coke contaminants that might exist with
it
because where if you're dealing with the Mercury,
you're also certainly dealing with
the other organics.
The reason
why the industry was there. First of all.
They went there to discover Mercury were there
oil and gas, provide energy for everybody. So

(23:56):
So you have to consider that they are
going to be there in some shape or
form.
So,
again, you get into that process of
how do we make this robust? How do
we make it high in efficacy, high efficiency,
and
a high level of certainty for, compliant discharge,

(24:16):
and that's by stage sequence. You talks about
technologies
for
controlling and managing mercury during production,
how widely is that being deployed and are
there any exact examples that you can point
to?
Our technology
Miso x technology that we work with hasn't

(24:36):
been employed widely across the industry.
Convention has been with
mercury removal units,
and and
and they've been
around as carbon has been around kind hundred
and 50 odd years. So there there's somewhat
of the go to and it's

(24:57):
having a Having a conversation about removing a
contaminant from a production system
is not an easy 1 to begin.
No 1 likes to admit that there is
a significant problem that they've got.
And certainly, to an outsider,
it
without necessarily

(25:17):
having been invited in and to go and
talk to
clients about potentially we can assist with mercury
removal, and
the shutters come up.
So
it hasn't been widely deployed, but where it
has been deployed, that it's very significantly
removed and fixed problems
by literally removing

(25:39):
conventional coal
condensate coalesce
and applying the my system
in place of those coalesce.
What is the sort of end product of
of the process and and what do we
do with it? You know, how do we...
How much do it gets created
and condensed and and what can we do
with the that waste?

(26:00):
That's a really good question and it it
might seem to anybody listening to this that
the... You've been set after to ask that,
but it's not the case.
So
The conventional... If we talk about a conventional
system, we will end up with,
10:20 tons of of mercury contaminated waste.

(26:21):
By
contrast,
the My x c element,
has a a long term in application.
And because of the way it works, it
works to coalesce the mercury
alone
out of the gas stream.
So the wastes that is generated

(26:43):
is elemental mercury
and that in its it by volumetric
size is probably,
you know, hundreds hundreds of leaders at the
most,
compared to thousands of tons.
So it's far simpler to deal with, and,
you know, it's interesting to note that Mercury
in itself is

(27:04):
a difficult product gain now, and it has
application in other industries.
So,
it has it has a growing value in
some
commercial applications, industrial applications now. And I think
as well with...
I suppose those that are aware of what
has done for the past few decades,

(27:25):
and then they become exposed to
this new branch of what we can provide
for the industry in regards to Mercury.
There is that level of
knowledge that we're impartial to them that this
is actually It's it's not a filter that
paul's alluding to. It's very much a something
that is meant to saturate
as that coalesce form

(27:46):
of that mercury.
And that's why we're able to capture it.
And there's rip effect of other benefits from
there and
and even for that...
Processing
application, and
and there's benefits as well down down the
line when it comes to the d phase
for any site,
but you're able to then alleviate

(28:08):
that form of of in em,
that full downstream
c coordination of of impact by Mercury 3.
Paul, you're you're looking very keen to say
something. No. I'm looking very keen for you,
not to say something.
Free certain things that we can talk about
and certain AAA couple of objects that we
can't we can't go into fair enough to.

(28:31):
It sounds then that through all this, we're
actually seeing mercury almost as a product as
a byproduct rather than a rather than a
than a contaminant
if you can capture it in the right
way. Yes. And that... And we're in that
circular economy. So we are in a... We're
we're in a a
state,
of mind at the present stage where
what was someone's waste is now of the

(28:54):
opportunity for reuse
And that is definitely an opportunity within here.
Particularly if you take pure elemental mercury. It
it is a valuable commodity. If you look
at it on the commodity these charts, you'll
see that its
value is risen quite considerably in recent times.
So
the the opportunity,

(29:15):
and, you know,
go a bit broader than mercury
is to look at those other products
that are considered as waste and conventionally, we
we would just say, just grab it with
whatever you can,
b it up and will bury it.
Now we're saying
Is there a way that we can take,
the amin means, the ph, the the mercury,

(29:38):
what whatever it might be? Can we take
those
can we separate them? Is a way is
there a way that we can capture those,
allow the other c contaminants through and
take that value back
and put it back into the community.
You know, we you see it broadly. I
mean, we're we're sitting here with bottles of

(29:58):
water in front of us.
They got a tencent cent value on them.
Empty, not full.
Yeah. I I think to open up you
know, again, focusing in specifically on on d
and the d
perspective. We've talked quite a lot about,
prevention and and capture
mercury production streams. But in d commissioning projects,

(30:21):
we we're often looking at older infrastructure,
those prevention mechanisms weren't in place. There's... There
is an element of mercury
contamination.
Some of the key challenges that that are
being looked out at the moment is
understanding the distribution
of mercury in existing infrastructure

(30:41):
and the potential to to to clean that
in sit you before you take it out.
And
you know, would be interested to get get
your perspectives on that about the feasibility of
technologies operating in an in you context for
detection and and cleaning.
We are very interested in doing things in

(31:04):
Sit.
And and if we go back in the
history of,
a lot of the equipment that we've, made
available to industry. And and
it's it's somewhat been
consider this
unconventional because of its small footprint.
So it's just as easy to deploy it
to the field,
as it is to build it into a

(31:24):
depot and bring the waste
to the depot.
So similar principle applies here.
So we've got a an unconventional but very
small
footprint of a robust treatment system.
So
can we collaborate with the right service providers
in

(31:44):
association with the clients
to actually look at
the the d
space
evaluate
through
a front end design
to see what is
potentially possible.
And so the answer to your question
that is not what you were looking for.
I don't think sure. But that's the reality

(32:06):
of it. So it's it really is
that
collaboration that we seek to do
and undertake with others
No 1 understands the potential products that we
have and the innovation and research and development
work we do around those products
for applying them into different circumstances.

(32:30):
So
we need to we need to clearly sit
at a table
in in Philly, Frank and open
discussion
with the client and and they need to
outline to ask what they want... What they
would really like to do ideally.
That ideal world, then we can look at
and say, are we able to do that

(32:52):
with with these potential products? And if it
is in Sit, because ideally,
you would clean up in sit you, reduce
the waste contaminant
before
cutting and transporting.
That makes life a lot safer and and
better for all,
then
that would seemingly be an ideal situation. Does

(33:14):
it also bring open the opportunity that perhaps
some of this
materials
that are assets presently
could perhaps remain in in place, not disturb
the environment.
I think it opens up a discussion.
Around that and potentially what is the upside
and downside for both of those. And it

(33:35):
has to be done in in a way
that's
not imbued with them just emotion and not
imbued just with
commercial considerations, but it's range from
both of those ends of the scale. I
think your reference to, you know, the importance
of
the type of research and development that the
ideology does is

(33:56):
is reflected in the fact, you know, the
industry. We asked the industry or at least
the operators what their there key problems were
around d commissioning and
the current,
explore challenge. Where, code is open innovation platform
currently carrying a challenge,
looking at how we potentially measure

(34:17):
in sit
mercury
contamination.
In pipelines
that reflects the importance of of, really getting
in amongst this and thinking differently about some
of these problems and and how we deal
with them in different context as as you've
said. So that brings us to the to
the other, the other material that we've touched
on as we've gone through all of this,

(34:37):
and that one's P fast.
And, you know, p fast was really where
I first met you guys. We're back when.
And, you know, with the work that you
were doing in that,
In the context of d, but maybe more
broadly as well just just just for those
who aren't necessarily as familiar with P fa
and what it is and what it means.
You know, can you talk us through a
little bit about

(34:58):
what it is and what you're doing with
it and so off?
Well, P has been around in the community
since the 19 thirties.
It's a synthetic organic. It's got some magnificent
properties.
Your your pizza box doesn't leach oil through
it as a result of P fast.

(35:18):
Your brake fluid doesn't overheat and ox
because of a P fast compound that's added
to brake fluid.
The range of lubricants that utilize
P is very wide and broad.
Teflon tape has a very basic number and
Teflon
in its

(35:39):
utilization.
Gives great
to things.
It doesn't break down with, heat. It doesn't
break down with changes of,
pressure.
And so
those same properties which,
brilliant
in the application that it's desired for, and
that is

(36:00):
you know, sealing pipes,
making things more,
slippery
preventing
oils from penetrating into areas you don't want
them to go.
All of those particular elements and not breaking
down under heat and pressure.
Are the same problems that when it ends

(36:20):
up as a waste
means that it lasts
in the community
for,
you know, somewhere between 9 and
40 years is half life.
The Ip that's surrounding
many of the P fast compounds
is still unknown.
Yeah. It's very tightly held.

(36:43):
Peak production of P fast, the 2 key
P,
compounds that we concentrate on P and P
was in fact in the 19 nineties and
the early 2 thousands.
And
those 2 compounds I mentioned,
they were manufactured at the rate of about
10000 tons

(37:04):
and 50000 tons respectively in those periods of
time.
So
peak production now has scaled back because the,
the use of
P fast or p fa, 1 of the
keys. In, firefight fighting foam has now been
somewhat regulated against and is being withdrawn from,

(37:26):
operational use.
However,
there are 7000
p fast compounds.
And the compounds themselves
change state as they very slowly ox eyes.
And to put that into perspective,
P ass
has health,

(37:48):
is detrimental to health in many ways. And
so there's a lot of there's a lot
of work that's been done over many years.
And, you know, it's an endo disrupt. It's
it's linked to the various cancers.
And so
the work the work that
we've been doing is to be able to
remove

(38:09):
these compounds
broadly
out of waste
water, particularly.
It's highly soluble.
So you know, in terms of sol,
oil will separate out from water and sit
nicely on the surface so you can scoop
it off,
benz z when you get to the other
end of that
spectrum of

(38:30):
hydrocarbons is somewhat soluble,
and I say somewhat, and it is soluble,
somewhat when compared to P fast. P fast
is highly soluble. You can look at water,
it's...
And it can be have high concentrations of
p in their high in terms of the
detrimental health level of concentrations. You won't see
it. You won't smell it, you won't know

(38:52):
it's there.
The interesting part about that, and the reason
I mentioned Benz is benz.
Is highly regulated that's known to be cancer.
So it's it's regulated in in in its
availability into the community and principally
it's been used in petrol for many years
as as the

(39:13):
go to for ease start
However,
you release benz into the atmosphere and, you
know, it'll break down to its
component parts of
carbon
dioxide and and water vapor basically,
with the addition of, Uv and,
pressure and temperature, and that'll happen over hours

(39:34):
to a few days.
Go against P fast,
which has
9 to
40 years is a half life.
And the big difference then becomes 1 of
your release benz,
over a week it's gone.
You release P ass.
It remains there. You release some more P

(39:56):
ass
it accumulates,
and it continues to accumulate
such that now
a product that was,
only been around for 78 years
is
ubiquitous.
It's measured in the world's asian. It's measured
in rainfall. It is everywhere.
So

(40:16):
compared to Benz zoom,
it seems simple.
So in in the context of d then,
it's not something which occurs naturally in the
stream of product as we get norms as
we get with mercury. It's something which has
being used in the assembly of the equipment.
And then as we dis the equipment, we
need to make sure that we're capturing.

(40:38):
And that and not... And it's not ending
up his discharge or
unintentional discharge up because I'm fair to. That
is very much the point
very much a point. So because of its
ubiquitous nature, and the there's so many products
that it's contained within
that, it it can
inadvertently become
it can leach you out of the materials

(41:01):
because it's something that's been used at another
part of the process,
So it can be in the if we
can be in a pipeline, and it can
lead out and to give you an example
in...
Some of the fire training grounds that we've
got,
water treatment plants on.
Some of those
grounds,
concrete

(41:21):
have not had a live fire training exercise
for nearly a decade.
They're in high rainfall areas. So you would
think by the time
of 10 years has passed
that the P fast would have leach out
of the concrete completely.
Not the case.
And something that's regulated

(41:41):
down to,
point triple 0
2
parts per billion.
We're still getting measures
after some rainfall events
of
300
parts per billion.
So it's leaching out like that. So so

(42:02):
the point is it is
great in some applications, but it's a problem
in others, and it's more of a problem
when you get to the point where now
start to d commission and you start to
look at those
c contaminants.
What else is a problem for us. If
we're going to be treating and removing the
norms and removing the mercury and taking out

(42:24):
all naturally occurring organics and
we're about to now open the valve to
discharge into the environment,
and someone comes along and says wait. Have
you tested for P?
The whole
of the treatment plant
comes to a standstill? Have because there are

(42:44):
very very few instances
where we've tested for P fast that we
haven't found it
and the more industry
the more you go into the industry
industry types, the more you've find it there
in higher
concentrations. If
what 1 of the perspectives soon as that

(43:06):
were seen
not necessarily in Australia but elsewhere
relating to oil and gas It's particularly in
an onshore sense
is around
site remediation.
As sites are being
decommissioned or treatment plants are being decommissioned.
There's a question a question comes up around
P fast,

(43:28):
what are the options for people to deal
with, P fast contaminated sites?
The they the present options are,
to try and bind it into the soil
and prevent it from migrating with groundwater. And
that's
and that surely would have been a great
benefit to
the people around William Town on Oak air
basis and, for around Ty, as we know.

(43:51):
What's happened in those locations, And that's as
a result of fire training,
exercises,
spill off,
fire everybody thought to look great as a
bill across the ground with the wind. So
so bind below soil, below below ground and
the soil and prevent be the problem from
migrating,
and that's a great start. Barriers to movement

(44:15):
are a significant improvement on doing nothing.
The ability to
extract water,
treat the water and discharge it is also
an opportunity to mitigate the
the potential
for this product to remain in the environment
and spread.
And

(44:35):
the third option which is the holy grail
is to be able to treat the soil.
Now there's been a lot of work done
in that area by, a large number of
people through industry.
And with military both here and other places
around the world to try to,
refine that possibility.

(44:56):
It's relatively simple to do in
silica based soils
But when you get into the lo, it's
far more difficult because of
the the product that we're we're dealing with
itself and its adherence into those. Loa soils.
So
P fast makes its way through to the
look with groundwater sits on the clay,

(45:19):
migrate across the the clay in the geology.
And as a result of that, you end
up with the clay which are the fines,
holding the P.
So
the technology that we're currently working with and
doing some developmental work, for those types of
applications, it's a possibility
to to treat because it can treat particles

(45:41):
up to about 30 millimeters in size
So the there is a potential way forward,
but we're not there yet.
It's a
chance to talk more generally about
existing
commercial
solutions for p fast treatment.
Which is probably more in regards to the
liquids.
Yes.
There is

(46:02):
methods of treatments such as phone fractionation,
which can handle
higher p fast levels.
However,
you know, there's but then you go into
a, what are the regulators requiring in that
low level or or even
complete removal to where
labs are able to test down to, then

(46:24):
you've also had got Very common methods as
poles alluded to, carbon,
very common method of treatment for any actually
for a lot of water treatment plants,
and you've also got iron exchange as well,
and
and that's really where Paul actually was driving
the ship,
many many years ago when it was not

(46:45):
known especially in Australia in regards to
commercially viable,
treatment methods that Paul started actually investigating on
the P fast removal and the technology
application and process
for that,
which where we stand right now? This is
the pan ultimate discussion about c contaminants.
So,

(47:06):
in waste wastewater and and a lot of...
That peak production we talked about before.
The nineties and 2 thousands, a lot of
those products have now ended up in landfill
sites.
Landfill sites with leach 8 have a very,
very complex range of contaminants,
which all need to be considered when you

(47:29):
when you're trying to treat the most
soluble of those organics being this synthetic organic.
So it it's it's the perfect
discussion point because
within...
And it and it as it pertains to
oil and gas industry,
there's a full range of organics in the

(47:49):
complex makeup of oil and gas.
So
treating the treating the waste out of a
landfill leach shade
you you end up with,
high levels of biological
activity.
There's, oil and grease,
ammonia,
and then a range of dissolve solids

(48:11):
before you start considering tan,
and other varied
short chain hydrocarbons that all need to be
treated,
apply. You can apply carbon to it and
you can apply a lot of carbon, and
it will work,
but you'll have brakes through And what we
see is short chain p fast breakthrough

(48:31):
very early in life.
So
without generating a lot of ways through because
then you've got treat all the waste.
How do you do that? That's the the
range of filtering products that we actually have,
because The interesting thing as we go back
to the earlier discussion about mercury
is if mercury in that same

(48:52):
leach
waste.
We can remove the mercury
in addition to the P. In addition to
the hydrocarbons
through the same treatment train
So the ability to have
complex
wastes
removed
by the same treatment train is where...
There's a significant

(49:13):
technical advantage
to the application of this my technology.
And the development that we've done with my
selects
on the
infused range of cartridges
and their particular
applications.
There's no online ability to treat... Oh, sorry,
there is no online ability

(49:35):
to be able to monitor for P first.
It has to be done in laboratory. So
the biggest challenge for us at the present
stage
and for us being water treatment industry
is being able to infer the level of
performance
and whether
the the polishing media at the very back
end

(49:56):
is still
operating to with starting point.
That is are we still compliant with our
discharge.
It's interesting that you talk there about
disposal and P fast funding is way into
into landfills and things like that.
If we were in a situation where we've
applied this technology we've actually captured

(50:18):
some of this p has consolidated it, what
the the best ways of disposing of it.
In this instance here because of the media
that it's captured on,
we can take that small quantity and we
are talking about a small quantity. And we've
had...
Sites
operating for,
12 months, and we might generate
something the equivalent of a of a pallet

(50:39):
of cartridges.
That can then go to
thermal
oxidation, high temperature combustion.
At which stage you're able to burn the
things relatively simply.
And you you then end up with,
elemental
discharge, but being know fluoride and

(51:01):
water vapor and carbon.
So that's and that's the safest way to
get rid of it its total distraction of
of the, long chains synthetic. And that's the
part of the equation that
I believe a lot of
industry are forgetting to ask the questions.
And when I'm
discussing... Because a lot of our clients come
to us say, look I have this problem.

(51:22):
How can you help me? And a lot
of that knowledge and questioning is will have
you
obviously considered all the commercial points of implementing
such technologies and understanding their limitations?
But also have you asked the question of
how much waste am I generating and also
the costs associated with it? Because there is
a significant difference between a sludge, that is

(51:44):
contaminated
compared to a smaller dry waste. And that
has been ultimately the game changer
for a lot of, different industries, even civil
construction,
where they're having to do a lot of
deep watering and you're dealing with legacy sites
that no and even knew about,
which will ultimately come up as well in

(52:05):
d areas, and using other sites that have
been used for other applications as well. Which
really goes back to your earlier question about
contaminated sites and how to treat it so...
Because of because of footprint
and waste volume,
there is there is a significant opportunity to
put in small systems
that continually flow, treat the groundwater.

(52:28):
You could you can put it back a
proportion of that back to ground
and allow that to
essentially cycle through almost like a washing mechanism.
No. I think the, you know, really interesting
piece there is around
understanding the the scale of the the waste
product at the end of it. You know,
you're saying you, you know, you've got something

(52:49):
operating for maybe 12 months and you've got
a pallet with it. Wait, waste at the
end of that, and I think that's really
good context.
It is. It it's... And as Sasha said,
the wait often the
the clients and we ourselves concentrate on the
process,
the process of taking the bulk of the
fluid
treating it for the contaminants of concern, perhaps

(53:12):
some of the coke contaminants that need to
be removed to give it the robustness,
and making sure the compliance is in the
discharge.
But when you look down that the length
of that process train,
that's great. And understanding that we've got compliant
discharge.
But coming off that process, you have to
consider
what are the byproducts

(53:33):
that come as a result of that treatment.
And
how am I going to capture it hold
it,
potentially transport it, or what other process going
to need to be added
at site
in order to treat that
before I can then have a waste that
is something that can be handled.

(53:55):
Actually, really interestingly, the insurance industry are now
starting to focus on the P fast.
Contamination.
And then when we start talking about risk
management of, okay, we're transporting it from a
to b. But also then you've got legacy
sites
the ownership of who's owning that site, managing
it and that downward trend of or who's

(54:16):
managing all the different waste and byproducts.
Is is a real
consideration that is getting a lot of attention
now. And it comes back to that. I
mean, I'll going back to oil years within
the oil industry. And just thinking
I remember,
1 of my colleagues telling me about a
service station that was
about to be sold.

(54:36):
And
someone in knew was considering purchasing it. And
at the last minutes, and this is going
back into the early eighties.
Someone said oh, wonder if it's contaminated.
So
the ups shot of that was,
that the...
They took some soil samples and found there
was contamination, Very significant

(54:58):
contamination, and then there was an underground stream
was a country
location. There was an underground stream, so the
plume spread extensively across the site.
So the site was something
for Sal
350000
or something about that.
The cost to clean up was put at
320000.
And what happened as a result of that

(55:19):
going through that part of the industry at
the time was there was a
a significant
review on
potentially sites that might be contaminated because of
their age.
And if banks had loans
provided to those
site owners,
what that meant to the value of their

(55:39):
loan, and some of those loans were called
in or
there was a requirement
for
site analysis to be done to ensure that
they weren't contaminated because
essentially, though worth nothing or perhaps there was
a greater liability than there was an asset.
Well,
it is isn't it. It really is such

(56:00):
sort of the
the the the future of a lot of
different industry sectors as we as we get
into that, into that particular area.
Well, look, that those 3 have been absolutely
fascinating as as specific areas.
What are you seeing as the trends? Where
you know, where are we where are we
going next and maybe around
the 3 the separately or altogether.

(56:21):
We'll start on P fast though.
The Us are definitely leading.
Interestingly, though, the
the Eu have
made some really interesting
steps forward. And actually wanting to eliminate
in the production and use of p fast
compounds,

(56:42):
in their,
manufacturing,
which is huge. That's a very
very guts move, I would say.
And they wanted to do that, achieve that
by 20 30.
The Us Epa are a a leading in
regards to setting those regulations in Australia, is
very much looking at that, following it closely,

(57:03):
we're seeing some of that rip effect over
into the Australian Epa.
And its regulators,
but also, there's a lot of question marks
on, from other industries that they're not sure
where to go. But
And we continue to watch the space. I
think the application of
the application of some of the technologies, you

(57:23):
any 1 of the 3 that we've
talked about or contaminants that we've talked about
is something that will be more of a
consideration of inclusion
in the early design phase
ideally.
Why contaminate something if you can
prevent the contamination from recurring?

(57:44):
Is that possible wall, that's what the innovation
and design.
Part of our group is about.
So
if that were possible,
then I think that is a far better
answer because then it reduces
contamination of assets
from day 1.
It means that the potential cost of clean

(58:06):
up at the
end of life
cease to be an issue.
And end of life
considerations with changing
drive for energy is something that I guess,
everybody's looking at. So
life of a field and it's commercial. It's
commercial value will change as a result of

(58:29):
what energy source
is sought by the community. And
some of that is
pre. I mean, we've got the discussion now
about, you know, his nuclear going to come
on,
So who knows what that's, you know, government's
prone to make changes.
So
all of that begins to have an impact
on

(58:50):
how you begin to view
what's done and when when do you do
it in in this light.
So I would say, mercury norms,
can you remove norms from a from a
gas stream?
No.
Can you remove mercury from a gas stream?
Yes.

(59:11):
How do you apply those things? That's the
next stage.
What can you do with P fast?
It's more of a container control. There are
some...
There are some areas where there is no
alternative at the moment.
Known to us,
that changes with the drive to develop that.

(59:31):
So you you put in those
guidelines,
and technology will abound too satisfied for sure.
Some then that there are, maybe 2 or
3 different
cycles. If you like that we're talking about
here in terms of the technology use. 1
is
catch it before it gets there in the
first place, which is design it in. Which

(59:51):
would be... Which is really good for new
facilities or modifying certain facilities where made the
way that maybe hasn't occurred yet.
The second 1 is what do we do
with the material?
If it's already got into a pipeline it's
already got into a piece of process equipment.
And then for me, the third 1, which
is probably the shortest cycle time of the
lot is
the cleanup

(01:00:12):
technologies associated with Okay. Now we've we've it
the material the the contaminant is there. We
removed the material. We brought it to a
facility. We're gonna clean it up.
Before we put it off into
into its next life. So we send that
steal. We send up plastics away, send whatever
the other things are aware as well. So

(01:00:32):
3 quite different
application spaces
for the technologies that you've got.
Where do we start?
Ideally, you would start at the beginning. So
you it's the greenfield,
you would apply now.
Brown filled
application if there was a way to inter

(01:00:53):
technology to reduce the contaminant level,
that's
that's a sensible
possible
achievement
that then comes down to,
field life and the the possibility of of
intervention.
Certainly, in in terms of
the beginning again of the d

(01:01:15):
phase really for Australia,
we're at the front end of that. So
getting it right now and
capturing those wastes and doing it economically for
the benefit of the industry.
It it, you know, may well be something
that an industry
established in in, in Australia might have

(01:01:35):
application
for others in the region,
indeed,
Yep. And we have to... We cannot forget
that it's not just us.
It's this is across the regions across the
world that everybody is looking at these same
questions and same.
We're having discussions out of out of our
office in Malaysia,

(01:01:55):
with operators there, and it's interesting that challenges
they are
keen to understand more of what we're doing,
you know, at a local level and a
technology,
application specific.
Which is really encouraging for for us as
technology
providers,
we we went to,

(01:02:16):
1 of the nations nearby,
back in 2018
spoke about P fast.
The
the the water corporation equivalents there, we're unaware
of it at the highest level at all.
It's now become a community discussion point.
So... And that's...
6 years. So in in that period of

(01:02:37):
time, the significant change,
significant change similarly
in their,
discharge
compliance for for water with hydrocarbon. You know,
that the
they're looking at reductions of 25 to 50
percent
compared to what we were were at in

(01:02:57):
those same time frames.
Back in 2018.
So I I think
every community, you know, wants to have the
same outcome.
They don't want to be the ones that
are sitting with the waste to lapping at
their shores. Just looking forward. Now, I I
mean, are are there any...
Upcoming projects or initiatives.

(01:03:21):
Again, even in the R and D space
that you would like to highlight is or
any single particular 1 that you'd want
single hour talk about in in in terms
of what's coming.
As an Australian sitting in on this discussion,
and
talking about how can we in how can
we make our, our industry? That's a oil
and gas industry

(01:03:43):
I guess better in in a very broad
term that that is.
I think the application of
the ability to coalesce this mercury out of
out of gas
at a low cost
is really important
for for the industry,
and that potentially can be beneficial to the
operators. And I see that as a as

(01:04:04):
a wind for all.
Yeah. And I think
I think if we're looking at the the
oil and gas space, that that would be,
the 1 and... And certainly,
the...
If we could if we could find a
way
to apply some of the technology as we're
saying earlier,
to in sit institute removal of norms.

(01:04:28):
Such that,
we didn't disturb the seabed
any more than had to be done.
Because some of these
assets have been in place for 20, 30,
40, 50 years, and we're able to leave
them, then that could be advantageous. I mean,
we don't go around tearing
tearing out the the Bismarck
from

(01:04:49):
from the English channel.
And and and likewise, for a lot of
other wreck that are around the world that
they they have
they have a place.
My personal view is the ecology and
what happens below on the seabed is continually
changing.
There are massive eruptions and other things are

(01:05:10):
occurring below sea.
We're discovering new areas around there,
the
the need to go in and destroy some
of that seabed
for an unknown gain at this stage.
Seems to me shorts sighted. And I think
you... You know, you previously mentioned the circular
economy

(01:05:30):
perspective, and
you know, from a deep commissioning angle,
you know, circular economy would mean designing for
d
design for optimized d,
you know, what
imagine if we could take the the threat
of, for example, mercury
contamination out of the equation somewhat by getting
that

(01:05:51):
controlling technologies in place up front during the
production phase. I think that's that's key to
unlocking
a bigger picture circular piece for for the
industry more broadly. Always.
Anywhere we can take an improvement at the
beginning of the production,
it's
the benefits flow on, you know, in not

(01:06:11):
only directly, but indirectly,
there's significant cost savings for everybody and improvements
for community and environment. But going back to
your point, Shaun on the
R and d activities within.
Maybe we should circle back in the near
future and we'll be able to share some
things as
there's a very big steel door and and

(01:06:32):
an armed guards in front of what we're
doing. So
we'll we'll let you know when we're able
to open the gates for you and and
share some of our activities happening that by
behind those doors.
Absolutely. It sounds
exciting and quite scary too. Been...
We we've put a lot of activity and
focus on the R and D space.

(01:06:55):
And rightly so because there is a need.
We don't necessarily wanna develop something
because we think it's a great idea. It's
actually gonna be a need and a drive.
By industry from both sides. Is it commercially
viable, but also, is it a need as
well when you look at it from the
side of the regulators
as an example. So
we are actively, and we've actually got a

(01:07:17):
a full scale team on it, and also
working and collaborating with other subject matter experts
in various fields,
not just within Australia, but also
across the seas,
so that that is important and also to
bring that skills
and a knowledge
into Australia, and and and that's important as

(01:07:38):
well further drive,
not just the oil and gas industry, but
any other industry within the Australian economy. I
think that feedback loop that you talked about.
With industry between industry and new cells as
as researchers and developers,
is incredibly important and and prioritizing
things, which are meaningful to industry.
It is also incredibly important and and really

(01:08:00):
the way forward.
Jeez we've covered some covered some territory here.
Haven't we.
So anything you'd like to raise with us?
Well, you've got us here on the microphones?
I think I think the key for us.
Is
how
cod can get open and Frank discussion

(01:08:21):
between
people who like us who are technology providers
who actually see
potential opportunities,
in a forum where
the
non disclosure, but that there is there needs
to be the ability to
open up. And so from the operators if

(01:08:42):
we're talking about the oil and gas industry.
So the operators can talk about what they
see is they're driving problems.
As Sasha said before, we we don't wanna
be developing the widget that we think
industry needs,
we want to develop
the way to achieve what the industry seeks
So

(01:09:02):
if between the regulator
and
the clients in the oil and gas industry,
if we can get a better understanding of
that in a kind of
un unfair
discussion forum,
that
that would be
something that we would like coded to be
able to facilitate. Okay. I'll. Got the first

(01:09:25):
bit of that, and then I'll pass over
to Sean to maybe tell off talk a
little bit about what we've got going on
now.
I think there's there's
couple of different phases and stage to this.
The first 1 is
getting
the whole of
industry, not just the operators, not just the
service sector not just the regulates, the whole
of industry.
To

(01:09:46):
really mobilize around the work volumes that we've
got in the d commissioning space.
I think that's happening now you know, when
I think back 3, 4 years ago when
we were getting cor started, there was still
an understandable level of apprehension across the service
sector decide that when the work was gonna
happen, what it was gonna look like, What
the expectations were. The regulators
themselves were still trying to get their arms

(01:10:08):
around just what it was they were regulating
and what it looked like. And the operators
were we're dealing with just the volumes of
work that they had coming up. So I
think first off, we've gotta do that. And
I think there's been a lot of progress,
And I'd like to think we've had a
piece or a part to play in
that
evolution and moving the the discussion forwards.
The second bit is just making people aware

(01:10:29):
of
where some of these
smaller pieces if you like in the overall
picture of decommissioned good You look at it
from a holistic perspective, and it's about removing,
you know, plugging the wells, closing the wells
off, removing infrastructure,
bringing the infrastructure reassure. And for a lot
of people, that's what they see as being
the whole life cycle. Once it's got to

(01:10:50):
shore, it sort of goes out of sight,
for some parts and comes very much into
sight for other parts. So having that awareness
across the whole life cycle is absolutely critical
and then getting into that and say, right,
Along that journey, we've got to deal with.
Contaminants we've gotta to deal with different waste
streams we've gotta deal with different material streams,
and we call it while west, but realistically

(01:11:11):
around the world 95 percent of everything that
gets removed, gets recycled.
But the more we can move that 95
to 96 and 97,
to to we reach a point where we've
recycled everything that's economically viable
is is is really important
Thereafter it's having... As you say, it's being
able to facilitate those conversations and John been

(01:11:33):
doing a lot of work in that space
in terms of trying to
to bring
out, let's call it the d community together
to have these conversations. So do you wanna
do you wanna talk a little bit about
that tron? Yeah. I think in a in
a more general sense,
Code is all about, you know, 1 of

(01:11:53):
the foundation principles of of Code is about
creating
non competitive
collaboration environments in which we can have these
open
conversations
I think particularly, though in terms of
dealing with
what Perceive to be contaminants.

(01:12:15):
There's a certain round amount of sensitivity,
which we can all appreciate, in relation to
that.
And, specifically in terms of how it is
communicated in more broadly into society and the
community.
So if there is any
re
on the path any elements of the industry
to talk more openly about that.

(01:12:36):
Then it's understandable from that perspective.
1 of the things that we are trying
to do at least
the organization that sits next to dakota of
the National D commissioning Research initiative.
Is trying to do is actually use scientific
research
to provide
information and

(01:12:57):
and political tests
of the impact of potential contaminants on on
the marine environments, for example,
which starts to actually d
the communications
into into the broader public environment,
in relation to these contaminants,
and can start to better enable a more
open

(01:13:18):
conversation around it. It becomes less threatening
to the industry to talk about it,
and it because it builds a a broader
understanding of what we are trying to do
and what the industry is trying to do
which is to be proactive in the way
that it it manages
the challenges of d commissioning in a very
sustainable sense and in long term,

(01:13:40):
sustainable sense.
So so the work that's being done in
in terms of building
conversations between
operators and regulators
between the community and the d
providers,
all play into this in terms of,
reducing the the the perceived levels of threat

(01:14:02):
associated with with contaminants.
And
building the understanding of the commitment of of
all different parts of the industry and the
opportunity for communities to get involved.
In managing
outcomes which are are positive and sustainable.
I'm 1... I'm looking at the other seat
if there's any more questions coming, but that
yep. I guess the 1 other question would

(01:14:24):
be,
we've talked about Pay. We've talked on norms.
We've talked on mercury.
What
are there other areas of concern for the
the commissioning? Or contaminants?
There there are,
that Top of my head, the 1 that
comes to mind is around what we can
do

(01:14:45):
to find a a recycling pathway or a
greater value for marine growth.
Marine growth is is there. It's present. We
have very, very large volumes of marine growth
in Australian Water. Thanks to the
high nutrient levels, high ultraviolet, nice and warm
water and so forth.
A lot of that marine growth though on
marine structures, which were treated with antiviral that

(01:15:08):
maybe,
we don't want in our food cycles,
So finding finding a way where we can
deal with things like that that doesn't just
result in
landfill or inc inspiration. I think is is
certainly 1 area that that comes
immediately to mind,
but thereafter I am sure that pretty well
everywhere we look there are gonna be materials

(01:15:28):
that we're gonna have to try and
find the best useful for. The 1 the
contaminants people talk about the most or are,
the 3 that we've
discussed here. But I mean, also what the
industry is dealing with
is
things which are a less high profile, things
like sludge, hydrocarbon,
infused sludge,
and volumetric,
they they are

(01:15:50):
by far. The the thing that's front the
center with in terms of what the industry
having to deal with.
Just on that. I mean, that's another interesting
area for that...
For what's behind the steel doors and the
security guards.
And the ability to treat those types of
sludge. That's... Then that's particularly the field
where the application is. So it's

(01:16:12):
it's understanding those. And
as always, the devil's in the detail. I
mean,
you drill down into anything.
And,
across the top, it looks fairly simple. We
pick up large pieces of
asset and moves them to shore and it's
it's out of outside out of mind.

(01:16:33):
When we start
treating
and cutting,
dev evolving, getting it back to its base
elemental form, and then we begin to see
well, those level of contaminants that
the anti fell, if it's a typical d
bla anti fell of copper type, then we
can't allow any of that to discharge into

(01:16:53):
the or the river
the sewer treatment plant because that needs to
be traded
so
that high level of review
and in in order for us to be
able to add value to the discussion,
it we need to drill into each of
those particular elements to see where we can

(01:17:15):
add value with technology as it is now,
or what can we develop in that technology
suitable for future? And I think that's, you
know, the work that we're doing at the
moment
looking at the requirements of waste management
right across the industry has involved us asking
both

(01:17:36):
operators
and
contractor
communities,
what they see as the the biggest challenges
and what they see as the primary waste
streams
and so, you know, all of that will
be reported out, And it'll be an interesting
perspective
to look at, you know, how the different
groups rank the different elements of that that
weight and those waste streams. Well, look,

(01:17:59):
2 things supposed to finish shop with first
off. To if people have come very intrigued
with what we've been talking about here and
1 or more about what you do and
what what ideology is all about.
Website, contact details, linkedin,
email, what's the best way for them to
get you.
Look, we definitely don't put up any
barriers to contact us, unlike our R and

(01:18:21):
d department.
But, yes, always feel free. We're active on
Linkedin,
They can send us an email probably best
email. Quickest response we can get through is
sales at oli dot com dot au u.
Put the full
team on that,
or by all means, if you wanna send
us AAA

(01:18:41):
phone call,
the numbers on the website. Pretty good. Thank
you. And,
I look beyond that, just thank you both,
Paul and Sasha for your for your time.
And your insights on this and Sean, of
course, for your core contribution for the questioning.
And
look, this is being fascinating. You know, so

(01:19:02):
many so many rocks to turn over in
here and things underneath them, then more smaller
rocks underneath those. I think we could probably
talk for a lot longer, but and hour's
was probably about right. I think for this
1 for the for the recording.
And yeah, for the listeners out there. Thank
you very much for bearing with us I
hope you've got something from it, and we
will be back at some point with the

(01:19:23):
next episode. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks for us. This.