Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)

We're back from summer break this week to explore near-death experiences and the intriguing commonalities people have during these moments. From overwhelming peace to moving towards a light, we consider how these experiences might be linked to the brain's chemical responses. 

Through stories of personal anecdotes and scientific insights, we delve into the stages of these experiences. Inviting listeners to ponder the mysteries of life and death with a touch of humor and curiosity. 

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us [e-mail] or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Not all people experience the same exact thing, but like
the overall the commonalities are very very similar.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, everything that I've read, understood, and consumed
kind of indicates that there are just like certain commonalities
that most people report.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I feel like the one everyone knows if you think
about like dying or like go to the light. That's yeah,
and that is part of this. It's one of the stages,
but it's not the first stage.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Oh hi, Caitlin, Hi Cassie, all Hi, creepy people, helly,
this is PNW Haunts and Homicides In case you forgot.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I know, we took a little bit of a break,
like a half sea break.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, but we're pretty much back full time now. So yeah,
get sick of us. I like that. Have z's have
zea break, have z e's. Yeah, I took a little
longer break than plan, but I'm back now. Yeah. Surprise,
I'm back with a let bubu. So if you're curious
about that, join Patreon because there is a bonus and
I'm not going to show it to you because we
opened it on Patreon, so I'm not going to show it.

(01:16):
It's a surprise. That's so fun. Caitlin took me to
our gate keepy spot. Great, I don't anyway, this is
anything we do well, I was going to finish. This
is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime,
the paranormal, and all things spooky, weird, creepy, other worldly.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Deathly in the Pacific Northwest. Okay, great, I dontly. I
think I meant to say deadly, not deathly. Deathly. It
is deathly a word. Deathly is a word, I think
in the context that you're trying to use it, I
think deadly.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I think, Yeah, I don't know either one.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I feel like it's almost interchangeable, both just from the
little like snippets that you have revealed to me throughout
the day of what your topic may be.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
A but if it's like a deadly one, we do
tear a reading at the end of every episode for
a little palette cleanser and also a little deeper insight
into our topic for the day. Yeah, we do, And
we do that. I mean in every episode, not just
if it's a scary deadly one. We do it in
every episode. So yeah, yeah, so far, who knows, we're wild.

(02:29):
We could change, we could change on you. We could
up and change on you at any second, at a
moment's notice.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
We're just like looking to harness that like blind box energy.
We're looking for our next viral marketing scheme.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Today is my episode. I'm back Hi here, I'm back
with stories.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Also, I'm feeling really bad because the last episode I
did was about me, and then I'm like, let's just
talk about me again. I want to talk about me.
You want to talk about as we're going to rename
the podcast Hants and Cassie and Caitlin is no longer involved.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
I was like, wait, haunts already is the Cassie. I'm
just like doing the math like you're the Haunts. Now
you did thet it's haunts and Cassie, you do the Haunts.
I do the Cassie.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Okay, But anyway, I apologize for constantly talking about my
own self. But yeah, it's such Leo energy, it really is.
I do have a Leo Leo Are you rising venus?

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Leo h Venus?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Oh spicy, good for you?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Spicy anyway, So now I feel like that, and now
I feel like embarrassed because now people are looking at
me like, oh, hi, Leo Venus. We know a lot
about it. You anyway, maybe we should put this at
the top of the episode tail and if you're sensitive
about talking about details of dying and death, maybe sold

(04:10):
one who would be that. I know, I know we
talk about like, we talk about death all the time constantly.
It's true crime, it's ghosts. But this is just like
kind of what people go through as they're dying. So
it's kind of very specific. So if you're just sensitive
to that right now, you know, back to it, skip it.
So do you Okay, I'll see you later.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I felt like, yeah, I feel that. I know you're
so good to see you. Guys. Oh sorry, you torture me,
so I to you. This episode was inspired by real
life events. And just like before anyone gets too scared,
I did not die. I did not actually die. Okay,
I didn't it almost die. Okay, So you're not podcasting

(04:54):
from like the grade, yes, but this is they're going
to see the title near death Experiences. And I didn't
want people to panic for a minute.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
So this was inspired by something that happened to me. Code.
Let's just say I'm a little traumatic sometimes. What I
had an incident in my bathroom alone one day. Oh god.
So I was just standing there like brush my teeth.
That was at the end. I know, I'm not going

(05:23):
to go into me. It's kind of detail. But it's fine.
It's not stressful anymore. We're okay, We're not everything side.
I love it. It's great. So I was standing doing
like my mouth washed, looking in the mirror. I was
like not bending, moving, I was standing just being a person,
just standing there, just people in that type of thing,

(05:44):
looking in the mirror, thinking about who knows what. Oh
I was Actually I was watching a podcast. I was
listening to the podcast, and my lower back popped like
I had popped, like I had like moved, just did
all of it like I had moved.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
And it popped so loud that it like startled me
and it felt like I felt like the skeleton shift
in my body.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
And it was very confusing. Uh. And this happened just
like before super recent events. This happened like weeks ago. Yeah,
just like a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, so before
super recent events. So none nothing inspired this, Well something did,
I'll tell you. Oh my god. I thought for a second,

(06:34):
but I had like been shot because it was so
loud and startling and out of nowhere. And I remember
watching this documentary it was like and I survived or
something when I was very young and someone had been
shot and they didn't feel it. Yeah they because yep.

(06:54):
So for some reason, like initially like in your back,
in your spine, like and so for some reason, I
just had this. I was like, did I just get
like shot? It was the I don't know where it came.
It was weird. And then I was very confused, as
was staying there trying to figure out. Quickly, I realized, Okay,
I didn't get shot, but I was like, something happened

(07:14):
in my back, but I like, I can feel I'm
not numb. I can feel things, but I'm not in
pain at all.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
And and then I start my vision starts to.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Go it like tunnel and I'm getting hot clammy. I'm
looking in the mirror. I literally like see all the
drain like or the drain blood from my face, all
the blood drain from my face, all the drain blood
from my face, and I'm like shit. And this happened
like super fast but also very slow, like I had
time to kind of think about things, but not really

(07:49):
and I was like I'm about to pass out. So
I got I was like, I gotta get low. I
gotta get low to the ground. So I'm like grabbing
the sink and I get low, and then like I
don't remember anything after I get like my wasn't on
the ground yet, and then I just I woke up
in the corner of my bathroom.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh, I really don't like this. I really really don't
like this.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
And I was like, what the fuck just happened?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Bro, I just painted in my hooking bathroom, And like
I said, I did have a lot of time to
think weirdly, because it was like slow motion almost. Yeah,
but I feel like in the same like it's it's
probably actually happening so fast, but it's like, but.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
It seemed very slow, yeah, the passing out of it,
because I could feel myself like sinking into like passing out.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
And I feel like that's like something like neurologically where
like you're it feels like it's happening really slow, but
I feel like it's because your brain isn't like doing
the brain stuff.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, it might be like trying to help you out
to like yeah, you know, get low, get low, hit
your head on something, which I did not, thankfully, But
I had time to think as I was like starting
to pass out or like it was like getting black
or I know, I was like holding onto the sync,

(09:13):
but I was thinking about I like basically had my
life flash before my eyes because like I knew I
was passing out, but I didn't know why, and so
I kind of just assumed I was dying.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
So I was like, Okay, I'm dying now, this is
this is this bike, Cassie, this is the end.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
But I wasn't scared or anything, and it felt like
very calm, very peaceful, Like I was like, Okay, I've
had a pretty good life. I'm also not done yet.
I do know that. Like I like I did realize,
like I'm not ready to go. I have a lot
of things to do, like not quite ready, but like okay,
I was at peace with it, you know. So that

(09:54):
was like that was very interesting to me, yeah, because
it was like not scary. But again I wasn't actually dying,
so maybe my body knew that, but my brain definitely
did not know. I don't know. Yeah, so I felt
like I kind of had a near death experience, not

(10:15):
completely because I wasn't dying. But I did have that
like I actually thought I was gonna die, and like
I had this thought like fuck, my brother, my poor
brother is gonna find me naked on the bathroom floor.
God d like dang it, like I'm sorry, oh no,
sorry joey.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
But then I woke up and the first thought I
had was like very confused. I had to like think,
I'm like, oh okay, like what happened. But then I
was like, ah, shit, I didn't die, like man, I
still got to pay my bills. Fuck, I'm still alive.
I'm alive. So I did have that moment of like

(10:57):
dang it, but it was good to know that the
say it part was only literally like my thought was
about I have to pay still, So that was very comforting.
Like there's I felt I feel better about life and things,
yes now, which is very it's very common of in
your death experience, which we're gonna actually talk about today. Yeah,

(11:18):
I am so excited for me. Do you have any
questions for me about like what it was like to
basically die. Do you guys have any questions?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Okay, I feel like just for context, I am somebody
that is very much on the fence about like in
terms of like people say, like especially like once you
get married, and you know, like as we get older,
like you have to have conversations about if there are
certain things that are meaningful or like important to you,

(11:52):
about like kind of like end of life decisions like
how do you want your remains to be handled?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
And you know, things like that.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
And I'm like, I'm very much like on the fence
about cremation and things like that, just because I'm like,
I am so afraid every time I hear like stories
about the olden days where they had like the fucking
bells you could ring from down inside the grave, and
like people that, oh my.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
God, that's so funny that you say that. Okay, keep going.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I I've also you know, I feel like this is
more like from the perspective of like I think about
instances where people didn't necessarily it wasn't that, oh we
thought this person was dead. I think about it in
both ways, because I think there are times in history
where it's it's been proven like oh, this person was

(12:43):
believed to be dead, but they just had like incredibly
low heart rates something like that.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
When like but medical stuff is so advanced now.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, and then they but then also intentionally, some people
have just been like obviously burned alive and like the
idea of being able to feel that until like just so,
I have a lot of like body horror issues related
to like certain aspects of death, and.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I don't know, I'm not really sure how you process that.
And I have thoughts. Yeah. First is you can't get
buried alive because they ferment you, right or what's that called?
And in term like they fill your body with chemicals?

(13:33):
Oh well sure?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I was like I wasn't off with ferment. There's another
what is the name for it? Like preserving you what,
there's a isn't there a name there? There is, my mam,
not preservation? No, okay, you think I would know. I'm
like obsessed with this. I wanted to be a mortician

(13:58):
in ball, Thank you. I was like, it's the thing
morticians do. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. And
I can't think of the word I have brain bok embalming,
thank you, because you get embalmed, so they're gonna I mean,
you can't survive that, so there's no.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Way you're going, right, But what if you were alive
up to that point and somehow they didn't realize that
you were. I'm just saying, like, I just hear these
stories about people that are discovered and like, obviously that's
such It's it's.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Not a super common thing. But then there's also.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
The cases where people thought their loved ones were being
handled in a certain way and then they find you know,
mortuaries that have had these horrible, like horrific practices where
it was like, oh, we just actually let your like.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Loved one like rot and then abandoned. Maybe I should
be a mortician. Yeah, no, I mean there's just a
lot I would.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, it's just like anything in life
where uh, you know, something are just like really tragic
or they're uncomfortable to talk about, and people take advantage
of the fact that like there's a certain amount of
trust just like awful things happen.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
And I'm just thinking about like.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
If you are whether you're incapacitated but not deceased, or
you are truly deceased, there are things that can be
done to.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
You that are just really horrific.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
And it's like your suffering doesn't necessarily or at least
maybe even your loved ones on your behalf. Like the
suffering doesn't have to end just because your life has. Yeah,
so I guess, okay, yeah, it's actually it's very nihilistic,
but you're yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm My thought is like, if I'm dead, I don't
really care what happens to my body. I mean, obviously
I don't want me or anybody else to be like
harmed or treated grossly in any way trying to like
think of my Yeah, be careful with my words here,
but yeah, like I don't really care, but yeah, I
also do care because I want to be a skeleton. Yeah,

(16:12):
so in a way, you kind of do care what
happens to your body after you die. So I don't know. Yeah,
I definitely like want to be buried. I want an
old looking headstone. I want it to grow moss on it.
I want to like decay and become a skeleton in
a box in the ground. I mean, I wouldn't mind
like a wooden box. I don't eny like fancy box

(16:33):
or anything. I don't know if they put me in
a wooden box these days, I think legally there, yeah, yeah,
there's cheapest one. I don't care. I just want to
be a skeleton. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
In terms of like like regulatory incompliance like requirements.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
There are certain things that you can and cannot do.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
With human remains or really with any remain and it
was just depending on Yeah, you're.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Technically not allowed to like e scutch or them places,
but everyone scatters them anyway. Yeah. So funny that you
mentioned a bell, because I've always said, like, I want
a bell on my headstone, just like for funsies. I
think it would just be like cute and like I
want like an old school headstone.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I don't know, I mean it loves cemetery practical purpose
at certain points in history, which is I think maybe
I need to consume less in terms of like the
things that I know are sort of my uh my
bugaboos related to death and let the let let whatever

(17:37):
mystery does remain just fucking remain and just not maybe
maybe we don't think.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
About that so much. I have to think about it. Yeah, no,
I know. But so I want to bell on my
headstone just also because I can come back as a
ghost and ring it and just like scare you and
make you think I'm buried alive down there.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
So I think I think that's great. So yeah, but
I will literally never reach cover from that.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm going to do it too specifically.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
So I saw this headstone at Spirit the other day
and it says return to Sender and it has one
of the bells on it, and I took a little
video of it.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Here'stop it. You're relaxing.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
I want it.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's gonna be me, return Decender. I thought that was
fucking hilarious. This is that's the headstone I want. So
if anyone is wondering, I wanted to say, return to Cender,
I want a bell on it. Okay, anyway, And then
there was also, like you mentioned, like planning after death.

(18:52):
I did have a thought as soon as I woke up,
oh about a certain drawer in my house that maybe
my mom or brother wouldn't want to make your dildo drawer?
Is that? I said, a certain drawer? Okay, yeah, it
is my dildo drawer. I'm just trying to kneel down, get.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
It side this giant nailer and get it. Do you guys,
do you get it?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Nail? Do you get it?

Speaker 4 (19:20):
She?

Speaker 1 (19:21):
So anyway, my giant dildo drawer. I did have a
thought as I was like, you know, kind of coming
to coming to also when I looked in the mirror
when I was like getting up no blood in my lips.
It was I mean, we can insert the picture maybe
if you guys don't want to see it skip maybe

(19:43):
I don't know, but I think it's an interesting picture.
I look for dead, so dead.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I just feel like maybe we should do a carousel
of all of your appalling medical photos from over the summer.
So like we've technically taken a break, but Cassie has
just been like, I'm just gonna fuck up every inch
of this fucking future court. Because I did go to
the er. It was for something unrelated. I'm having a

(20:12):
reaction with alcohol and my medication. It's fine, but I
thought it was from the fainting. So we went to
the eer to also fucking bees and like, oh, I've
been stung by a bee this summer. Never been stung
by a bee before. It was actually a fucking hornet. Yeah,
I just yeah, I did. I have a couple of
urgent care visits for some shots for some you know
when you sent that picture and you were like, I

(20:34):
guess I'm not allergic to bees. I'm like looking at
the picture and I'm like, dude, no offense. But if
this is you not allergic to bees. I'm I'm literally
sprinting like it was like.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Don't it so? I mean they're more intense, That's what
I've heard.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I no like Olympic sprinter from now on, anytime I
see a bee, and I have.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Always been like, the thing is though I didn't see it,
hear it. I had no idea it was there.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I didn't feel it until I felt a little pinch
and I was like the fuck. And then I felt
like when you get a shot like hot injecting. Yeah,
like the hot and I was like, what.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Freaking out? I freaked out, freaked out, freak Oh my god,
freaked out. Never been stung before. What were we talking about?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Now, all of a sudden, I'm just like I have
like the demonic urge to ask you, like, have you
ever potato peeled your fingers? Oh? Yeah, oh yeah, I'm
very feutful.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh we were talking about my dildos. Yes, the dildo
draish the story. This is the ADHD tangent episode A
little bit. It's okay because it all really it's fine.
So I texted my friend immediately, Brittany, and I was like,
you need I sent her a picture of the door,
and I was like, just so we know, we've kind
of talked about this, like haha, kidding, but like I
actually thought, like for real, but like for real, though,

(22:00):
this is your You're in charge of this drawer. Come
over immediately and make sure my mom doesn't look in there.
My mom and brother no not to look in the drawer.
So everyone knows about my drawer if you don't want
to see what's.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
In there, okay, So like what's my status in relation
to the drawer?

Speaker 1 (22:18):
If Brittany is with me and she also dies, you
take care of the door.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
If it's like some sort of horrific car accident. I mean,
it's not going to be knocking, would but someone take it.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
If everyone does creepy people drawer, I feel like I
want to. I want to, like ring the bell with Chris,
bring me salt.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Anyway, now I'm realizing that I really should be more
organized about my various unmentionables.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Oh are they scattered?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, I feel like there's a little bit of scattering.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
You got to keep them all in one. I'm like,
keep it separate, right so they don't touch in the night,
and get it on without you. I need a loop. Oh,
I should tell them why I fainted, because it's not
I don't have a medical condition. As far as I know,
nothing is wrong with me. Everything's okay. Did hurt my back,

(23:15):
did hurt? Then I overworked it and hurt it again.
It's a whole thing. I'm better now. But I had
vasal vagel, sin scope syncope, sinc pe syncope. Oh okay.
I was like, I'm saying it wrong. Do I see
basal vagel? Right? Yeah, I was more. Okay, I've said

(23:36):
that word more than the other one. Yeah, thank you.
It was that which is basically like your nervous system
gets over stimulated by something. It can happen a lot
of ways, like people see blood as like the most
common people see blood and they faint. And I didn't.
I didn't know that was just like an actual thing
that your like body was reacting to. I thought it

(23:58):
was like you just don't like blood, like it wasn't connecting.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, no, I mean it's like a it's part of
like a whole like chemical kind of reaction in your body.
Like I mean, just to put it in like the
most dumb, dumb terms, it's honestly like, yeah, I'm saying that,
like I know anything, but it is.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
It is like a thing with me where if I
think because I had my pelvis broken, yeah, so if
I think something in my body is wrong or broken
and broken, because I've thought my shoulder was out before
and I almost had passed out, I remember that I
had to sit down. I didn't actually pass out, So yeah,
I think it was like I think my brain just

(24:37):
like like you were able to process something was wrong
in my body and it just gives me the freakouts.
Yeah I did.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
No, I mean that is kind of one of those
like lizard brain things where it's like your your your
body and your brain like kind of trying to figure out,
like what's the best way to help you in this situation.
I don't know how fainting helps anybody in any situation. Yeah,
I feel like, especially with like the way that a

(25:10):
lot of people when that happens, and like what the
trigger is, you kind of go like, how would that.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Be the best option? Because like it's very possible if
I didn't hold on to the fucking sink and get blow,
I would have fallen and hit my head literally passing
out might have been fatal.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I it could have been a
very different situation. Evolutionarily, there are certain things where it's
like it might have made sense at like a different
point in human history, and how much sense it makes
now is up for debate.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
It's also very I mean it is possible I was
in pain, Like it was very painful and I just
didn't know it.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
I didn't feel it. Yeah, because it was that so
you thought you were shot. You may have gone into
shock and like.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
No, I mean, like the things that your body and
your brain can do that like you're like.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
I didn't ask for this. I didn't tell it to
do any of these things.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
It's wild, but I like, I kind of get it
if you are in pain, if your body is in
pain and it just wants you to like pass out
to you like shut down, so you don't.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, because in a way, and that's what I was
gonna say, is like you know, with that response, it
seems like in a lot of situations, it's like how
can that be helpful? But if it's like a pain
trigger thing, it could be just that your body is
trying to help you by like okay, we go into
shut down. Mode, and it's like going to force you

(26:44):
to like kind of reboot or just like rest for
just long enough, but like maybe you can, you know,
recover yourself.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Maybe it was like, oh my god, we are in
a simulation.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Simulation, it's a simulation, you guys, I got read, I
got rebooted.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Never remind me again, witch pell did you take either?
It was also interesting just another note that I wasn't
out for that long because the podcast I was listening
to was like still kind of on the same topic
like kind of Judge, the kind of judge. Yeah, I'm
regretting now. I should have like gone back in the
moment and like rewound it to see the last thing

(27:26):
I had, like remember hearing to see exactly how long
I was out, but I didn't. I wasn't thinking that.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
No.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
I would imagine you're not thinking like super clearly, like
like yeah, yeah, but anyway, so that that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I wasn't out for very long. I would say less.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Than a minute. I I think it was really that quick.
I think so, yeah, okay, because.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
They really were still talking about and it's one of
those podcasts that changes subjects a lot. Okay, So yeah,
unless they did a tangent and then rounded about like
we just did and came back. I don't know that
could happen again. I don't remember what episode it was now.
I don't think like maybe if I hear it again

(28:11):
and then it triggers like the memory, like, oh I've
heard this before. Yeah, yeah, I think I would remember,
but I couldn't even tell you, like where it was
just a random in the middle of.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
A bad cast, and I feel like you're processing so
much other stimuli at that point that like that is
just like such a microcosm of the experience. Yeah, gosh, Wow,
we've been talking for a really long time about me.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
I guess I wasn't lying.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Uh, I know, I'm like sorry, I'm probably like totally.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Because like I don't have a ton of info. I
just wanted to come to you guys with kind of
like what other people experienced during near death experiences, because
there's different stages of it. I think I was just
like in the first stage, OK, where you're like thinking
you're about your experience death. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, whether that's like factually accurate or not, I feel
like your brain processing that is it.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, it was real at the time. Yeah, for and
I can see why you like.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
It feels like I can see how you kind of
got there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, Well, do you want to talk about some near
death experiences?

Speaker 4 (29:27):
No?

Speaker 2 (29:27):
I think we should end it here, too bad. That's
what this episode is about. Okay, great, we're done talk
about me. We're going to talk about some other people.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
There were three people from the Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington,
in December nineteen eighty one. Oh, okay, who wrote a
research paper on near death experiences in the Pacific Northwest
American population.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh, I really want to read this actually, yeah, yeah,
I can send it to you.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
It's like twenty pages. It's really not that long, just
like some light bedtime. Yeah, and honestly it is. I
read it last night before bed it.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Uh, the Evergreen Study, I don't know if that's part
of the title. That's what it says. And it's James H.
Lindley Sethan, It's se.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
T h y N, which is like a cool name. Sethan, Yeah,
Seth and Bryan and Bob Connelly. So they all did
this a research paper, I'm assuming. Yeah. They based it
off of two other popular near death experience research papers
that I will put Okay in my I did not
write them down, but I'll put them in the sources, okay,

(30:42):
but they they kind of worked off that and then
did their own research. And since this is specifically Pacific Northwest,
I'm going to just talk about this research paper and
not go into like the older, more popular, well known research.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Nineteen eighty one is like already a few years ago,
and anything older than that is like, okay, like you know,
not exactly E merging sign.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, And I don't know if I didn't really look
into it, but the I don't know if there's more
recent The one that they're referring to came out the
year before. It's like nineteen eighty and then one of
them was like the sixties or seventies or something. It
was like earlier, So I don't know if there's anything
after that. I didn't really look into that.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
There's got to be more recent study than that, certainly.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
But I'm sure. But we're going to talk about this
one because it's specific Northwest and we're PNW A nasty podcast,
which I think I forgot to say, or I did.
That's okay, I was gonna let it lay. We forgive
me because this episode is about me and I just
was like so excited to start talking again. Yeah, because
I haven't talked in a while. So I feel like
I'm like really chatterboxy today. Hello, why do I need

(31:53):
a podcast? Yeah, it's hard to say. I like to talk.
So in their paper, they said that they find the
most intriguing part of near death experiences is that it
kind of doesn't vary which from person to person. It's
not the differences, but it's the similarities that okay really consist.
Not all people experience the same exact thing, but like

(32:15):
the overall the commonalities are very very similar.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, Okay, Yeah, I feel like there's I mean, and
I have researched this in depth, but I feel like
everything that I've read, understood and consumed kind of indicates
that there are just like certain commonalities that most people report.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
I feel like the one everyone knows if you think
about like dying or like go to the life. Yeah,
and that is part of this. It's one of the stages,
but it's not the first stage.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
The first stage is overwhelming peace, in which all like
pain ceases.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Okay, so that's like a definite parallel for you, right, Definitely,
it says oh, it's just got to I know me too,
the feeling of like calmness, acceptance, which is definitely like
I had that.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, for sure, I was like okay, like I'm not
quite done, but I'm accepting. Yeah, this is where I am.
And I think they'll they'll kind of maybe go into
this in a minute. But that's kind of I think
your brain like maybe protecting you a little bit, like, okay,
so you're not scared in my final moments.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, and that makes sense. I feel like the closest
thing that I can say, like is a parallel for
me is like when I've had to take like benadru
it just sort of is like shut down, like and
it's just sort of.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Like this is happening, Yeah, very calm, very peaceful.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
I don't think that's exactly like what they're just I
mean I kind of feels passing out a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it is basically passing out.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
You're just yeah, you know what's happen on purpose.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, I just feel like the like I've always heard
it being described as a bit more euphoric than what I.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Have experienced then like in that instance, and I think
some people do go into like a very extreme euphoria
and well we're going to get into that actually right now,
which I did not have that like extreme. It was
just calm and peaceful and like I was.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, I think like people experience I probably on a spectrum.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
I don't know. There was a woman who was a
drowning victim and she described her experience was that she
was in agony and then like all of a sudden,
it just became warm and floaty feeling. So she didn't
start off like being like scared and in pain and
then yeah, it all of a sudden, wasn't.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I have always heard that drowning is supposed to be
one of the most peaceful ways to die. Yeah, I
know some people have a really hard time imagine that,
but like as opposed to like kind of the other
end of the elemental spectrum, like death by fire to
be like kind of.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
The most horrific. But I'm almost thinking, well, I don't okay,
I don't have any facts to support this at all,
but it's just like where my brain is going, drowning
you have kind of a chance of survival because you
like pull you out of the water, do CPR. So
I feel like maybe there might be more people who
have drowned and experienced near death. Yeah, I mean obviously,

(35:30):
I don't know. It just seems logical to me. Yeah,
so maybe like it's peaceful in every type of like dying.
But that's just the more people come back from drowning,
So I could see that.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I just think that, like, but I get it at
least from like the scientific like a biological standpoint. They
say that like the point at which like the certain
brain chemicals are released when you are experiencing drown and
then like like oppose, is.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
It drowning like specifically or just death in general.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I don't know that it's actually death in general. I
think there's like certain like chemical reactions that are that
are occurring because of like the the way that.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
You're experiencing death. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
The other thing is, and this also has to do
with how like the manner of death, right, But the
other thing that kind of goes along with that is
that like scientifically biologically they know that there are certain
sensations just because of how like nerves and your brain

(36:46):
and your other aspects of your body how they work
that like you will feel whether it's you know, smoke
inhalation or actual physical burning.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
They know, there's certain things.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
That you will feel until you like physically succumb and
actually are dead.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, but we did talk about like earlier, maybe I'm
hoping like your brain would shut off the pain, yesh
and just.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
And I think like the shock response could also, like
I think that can play into almost any type.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Of of death. But I that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
That's what I hate about this is that like like
who can.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Say, I know, you know, but drowning does like your
floating waters, yeah, very peaceful, it's quiet, it's kind of
a return.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, right, because it's like that's why humans like water,
because it reminds us of like the amniotic fluid.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
And and that is not to say that I want
to drown or I wish drowning on anybody like that
someone you know has drowned. That's I'm very sorry, super
horrific I've had I've had that shit, not personally, but
like in past family like ancestry, there's drowning and like,
so I have a very It's okay, I have a very. Uh,

(38:15):
I have a fear of water. So like I get it,
like I feel like my people crave water. I love water.
It's just I do have that a drowning fear, and
I really think it's like from like my DNA, like
my ancestors, my ancestor died young, as like a drowning.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
No, they say that that is something that can be
imparted in your DNA. They're finding more and more that
there are certain things that like it. They don't understand
how exactly, but that, you know, that's increasingly kind of
the emerging belief. I believe it even in the scientific community.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
So I don't know anyway, we're just we're not scientists.
We're just going over this research paper. It's so interesting,
it is, we have more to talk about. So there
was also a person who uh was hemorrhaging as a child,
and they said that they they felt so good though that

(39:17):
and like at peace and happy that they almost like
they felt really guilty that they were feeling these things, knowing,
oh wow, that they were like dying basically, but they
felt so good. So that's that's kind of like how
I felt.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Definitely like that's like euphouria, like you were saying, like
I didn't feel so good, but I felt guilty that
I wasn't, like why am I not more upset. Yeah,
like I was okay with that, Yeah happening, and like
that's where the guilty part came in.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, and that makes sense. I get that. I don't know.
I like the sense of like painlessness, like take your body,
taking care of you at the end, and like I
make sure that you're not like scared and in pain.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
It's a really good thought. Yeah, and it makes you
like it makes me not really scared. And that's very
common too, Like it makes people. Once people experience this
and come back, they're not as scared of dying because
they know, like it's going to be okay, it's peaceful
and yeah, not scary. I still don't want to, don't
get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, yeah, I think the manner of death matters to
a lot of people, definitely.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah. Yeah. So in this research paper they say the
first stage of death is kind of lea kind of lee.
It's kind of the most easily explainable. Uh, and we
kind of already talked about it, like biologically, the peacefulness
is kind of just what happens when you die, Like

(40:48):
your brain is releasing chemicals DMT, isn't it in doorphins? Okay,
there we go. So your brain is like releasing endorphins,
which are like morphine basically, well that's what this research.
They're morphine like substances.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, I'm just gonna read this little part here dimethyl
trip to mean. Some theories suggest that the psychedelic compound
d MT is released in large amounts by the pineal
gland during death. However, this is largely unproven speculation and
other neurochemicals are considered more plausible explanations for the effects

(41:25):
of ND.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I have Okay, I have heard this, and it's not
recent in my brain because it's not in this research paper,
I think because it's more recent. Yes, I definitely have
heard that, Yeah, which I think is possible. Yea too,
So we just trip. So they think that that happens
not only so you're not in pain or fearful when

(41:48):
you're dying, but they think it is kind of more
of a defensive mechanism to keep you like alive, and
it not incapacity, incocapacitating, in facitated, in life threatening situations,
So they it's kind of keeping you mobile.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Like sustaining, yes or whatever, like body systems or brain function,
so you can have time to save yourself or maybe
somebody else too, so yeah, they think that's kind of
why that happens.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
This has also been something that they've noticed in terminally
ill patients. So there's kind of like a period of
remission before dying. And I can't remember. I just watched
this movie or the show called Dying for Sex. Have
you seen that one yet? I haven't. No, it's really
really good. It's this person who's got cancer and she's

(42:45):
terminally ill. She knows she's going to be dying, and
so she wants to like have I don't think she's
had an orgasm or something, so like that's her goal
before she died. Okay, haven't I mean get it. It's
really good and like it's like not just about sex.
It's like about life and family and friendship.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
I feel like that's just about processing so many aspects
of the human experience.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's a really beautiful movie. But they do
kind of show that part of it of like her
little bit of remission while she's in hospice. And yeah,
they call it something and I can't remember what. It's
some cute, like beautiful name. But I love that. Yeah,
I really just watch the show. We don't need to
look everything up for you. You figure it out. So
this is a little bit different from the first stage

(43:29):
of death. It's a little bit less, like the feelings
of euphoria are a little bit less. So it's not
quite the same. And I'm I'm not sure on the
research as of this research paper wasn't about that, so
they didn't really say, like why they think that happens
with terminally ill patients towards the end of life.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
So they didn't just like research process and analyze every
aspect of death forever.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
No, they didn't. And I didn't go down that. I
didn't pull it that little thread because you know it,
we're getting a little lengthy or two, so we don't
need to just pull every thread. But I just thought
that was interesting to bring up. But it still happens
in some form, whether you're dying, like in the moment,
or if you're.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Like getting ready to yeah, because I think the same
kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, because there can be like
a protracted experience of dying.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, okay, so you're ready to move on the second stage.
I don't know, maybe I'm dying, Okay. This is kind
of a sense of separation from your body. So this
is an out of body experience. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
so where you're then this does happen to people when
you're not dying, when you're sleeping, right, it happens to

(44:47):
people like in surgery sometimes.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, I was going to say out of body is
something like that's an experience people have aside from death.
But it's interesting that it's like a commonality with near
death experiences.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, it is kind of interesting because it just makes
you think, like your consciousness is it can leave your
body while you're still alive too, that I can come back.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I just want, like all of the the bits to
just just stay.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
In it's assigned seats and you you do until your
time is up.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Because please don't stay in my body when I'm actually dead.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Please consciousness leave my body that's.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Alive.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Oh wait, same fears are blocked.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Take a drink plus the realm boys gun.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Some people say when they experience this, they kind of
like they're able to move away from their body. They
can like leave the room, they can see things that
are going on in other rooms. They things that are
going on, So they'll oftentimes come back with like, hey,
this person was wearing like this specific shirt out in
the waiting room and they hadn't come even in the

(46:07):
room yet, yeah, or something that they're talking about out there.
So the comeback with kind of like proof was like, wait,
how the fuck did you get that?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Like these things that it's like, there's just not any
way that you could have known this information.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, there's one instance where this person reported that they
were floating above their body in the hospital bed and
they looked at their body and it was like a
greenish gray color. I don't like that, and so they
just like were like, oh, I look dead, and then
the nurse was yelling a coated message over the intercom.

(46:43):
Then it like dawned on this person. They were actually
they're like, oh shit, I am coding.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
They were dying.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
So they experienced like watching their own body. That would
be that would be very intent. Like this game, the
deeper stages do get more intense. Yeah, So the third stage,
this is where people say they move into like avoid
or maybe traveling down along tunnel. So this is kind

(47:09):
of like light at the end of the tunnel, but
we're not at the light part yet. We're in the dark, right,
which doesn't sound great. No, they think this is kind
of like the intermediate stage, like a what's that called
like kind of like a purgatory stage. Yeah, like an
in between you're in between leaving like stage two or

(47:30):
you're like leaving your body.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
This is where you're traveling into another place basically, right,
And this is the thing that makes little the Catholics
loser shit is it?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah? Purgatory is like Oh.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
That's like that's why, like because you could like get
stuck there, right, That's that's purgatory. It's like you're between
heaven and how kind of you're like between this world
and the next, and you're not in You're like in
the in between.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
This is like you either get sucked up or sucked down,
sucked off, or sucked sucked under.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
No, but like that's why, like you know, uh, people's
like grandparents are like, you know, like you gotta get
you got to get a baby baptized, because unbaptized, Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
You just get stuck in the tunnel forever.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, which which is why you know that religion is
like in some ways really kind of shitty because like
how do you take this completely innocent, faultless creature of
you know, a baby that is unbaptized or I think
also unborn babies. If you're looking for something that's gonna

(48:41):
make you real sad just for no good goddamn reason,
that just makes.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Me real angry.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, well, I think and that refers to like even
like still born, right, that's not like that seems like
why are we going to make people feel guilty for
things even were so frequently you cannot control. That's okay,
that's neat nice. I love that we added that in
this episode.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, and you can cut that fact teck it.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I don't know, that's my understanding, and I believe that though. Yeah,
I'm pretty sure about it. If I'm being honest.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
I think we should leave it in. But that is
interesting though, that you bring up other religions, because that
is something that they brought up as throughout all the
different religions, there's that's like things sort of similar parallel. Yeah, yeah,
but in certain stages, like the ending stages, depending on
your religion, like things yeah, are different, things get different,

(49:36):
Things do get different, which is interesting that your beliefs
and thoughts in your mortal brain also are translating over
when you past.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Like it's it's impacting, it's you know, influencing your experience
in a way potentially.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, what is and by interesting I mean horror? Fy oh,
it's not scary to die. This is the lesson in
this Episodemagods jobin limbo. Limbo. That's another one up.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, So Catholics no longer officially teach that unbaptized babies
go to a place called limbo.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
No longer, but they did at one point.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
So I think that's I don't know how purgatory and
limbo differ.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Oh okay, so I love this. This is really fun. Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
So Limbo is a theoretical state no longer considered official
Catholic doctrine, where unbaptized infants or righteous people who died
before Christ were thought to reside experiencing natural joy, but
not the divine vision of heaven. Oh so they're like,
it's like, okay, it's like you gotta b minus instead

(50:55):
of an A purgatory, in contrast, is a confirmed Catholic
doctrine in a state of temporary purification after death for
those destined for heaven, cleansing them of remaining imperfections so
they can enter God's presence.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
So, people who were baptized, die go into purgatory, get
cleans this fucking then.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Go to heaven if they need it. So it's kind
of you're gonna need it because you're human and all
of us. Wow.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Also that's the whole thing, right is it's like, be
really really good, okay, but if you're not, you'll just
get cleansed and purgatory and it's fine, but you better
be fucking baptized though, you know, assuming that you you know,
you ate the right crackers at the right you know
you had the baby splashed, you know all that, so

(51:49):
you can go to the light. The fourth stage is
the light.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
We're at the light, you guys. We're at the light.
We're walking into it. Okay. This is almost always described
as white or gold olden, or like an indescribable brilliance,
like just something so bright that you don't even know
what color it is, which to me would be white.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
But yeah, yeah, or like almost that like iridescent like
effect of like a rainbow, you know, like when like
a crystal catches the light.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
That's what my heaven looks like. Yeah, for crystals, crystal light. Yeah,
I love that. Yeah, I'm glad I didn't see my heaven.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Though yet we didn't get to stage four, and I'm like,
Copeter is about to get to stage.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Four though, oh oh no.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
One person described it as like a grid of light,
like a spider one.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Oh and I thought that was really cool. That's interesting,
So now I want spider webs of like rainbow crystal light,
refract refracting, refracting, refracting. Yeah, so this one, this is
kind of where they think you get transported. So if
you go through the light, then you're in a different
stage in another world. So they technically have a fifth

(52:59):
stage that they called inner setting. Like getting to the
light is one thing, but then like going through the
light and entering another world or another dimension or whatever,
that's what people say it. It's like, oh so stage
five is going to that other world. Oh okay, yeah,
oh sorry, okay, back to the light. Yeah, this is
kind of where it depends on like your religion.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Some people think the light is like God or Jesus
or oh yeah, like like a religion figure.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, like a deity. But I think some people actually see,
like when they go into stage five, I think they
see like built the actual figures of these people. So
it kind of that's like where your religion. I'm curious,
like what I would see. I know some people see
like Elvis. Isn't that weird? Oh I kind of love that.

(53:49):
I've heard that in a lot of kind I kind
of love that.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
I know. Okay, I would see Taylor Swift obviously, like
all a, you know, Hurricane Candle. Yeah, even if she's
not dead yet. Oh yeah, no, for sure, my Jesus
is Tailor's with. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Also in this place, most people describe it like a
natural setting like a field, or would see a meadow,
a valley, a garden like something like outdoorsy. It's not yeah,
like a natural habitat. Some people say they spend time, Well,
I guess the people that come back from this, because
if you're not coming back, you're not reporting it. Yeah,

(54:31):
but they say they spend time there, like reflecting on
their life and kind of deciding if they want to
come back. Oh interesting, Okay, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I'm not saying like you always have a choice and
like the people who die choose not to come back.
Like I'm not saying that this is just what people
are reporting. Yeah, when they have come back, I mean, no,

(54:52):
nobody knows what happens over there, but I'm sure it's
not the case for every single person like choose to lead.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Right, well, and I think probably near death versus like
actual you know death, like it's you know sometimes I
think like that. Yeah, yeah, there's I don't I don't
know that there could always be a choice because it's
like well sorry, And I think that could just be
like their perception of it too. Maybe yeah, because they

(55:20):
were there thinking on things, maybe they perceived that they
chose to come back other than like they were going
to come back anyway.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, you know, so it could just be.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
First maybe that's how your brain allows you to process that. Yeah,
that could be too. I definitely don't have the answer there.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
This did happen though in a book I was reading recently,
and it was very sad because it was this what
this girl's best friend died and she wanted her to
come back so bad and she decided not to that
she wanted to die, but then the girl brought her
back anyway, I don't know, and then she was very
not happy with her life. Yeah, I'm not going to

(56:00):
say what happens. There's one thing people experience, and it's
not very common. It's kind of it's like nine percent
in this report, but they experience a life review. Oh,
and they think it's it happens when it's unexpected, a
very sudden like a heart attack or just something very

(56:23):
unexpected happens. Is when you go into the life review.
That's what they think interesting. And it's kind of like
it play it literally is what it sounds like. It
like it plays scenes from your entire life, like in
chronological order. Oh. It kind of like makes you like evaluate.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Review your life like it's what it sounds like, life review.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
That's so interesting. And I really don't know why. Maybe
it's just so you come back with like some perspective
on your life and like maybe things to change. And yeah,
and that does happen, you know. Most people report like
they do change their change their life after Yeah, they
appreciate things more, you know. Yeah, just gives you, I think,

(57:10):
I don't know, just like a sense of peace about life.
That's how I feel about it anyway.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Yeah, And I guess it could just definitely depend on
like your religion though for sure.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
I feel like that's got to be very individual. And
like the lack of fear of death is a very
common thing too after experiences. I think I said that earlier,
but just in case they didn't. So they're saying they
don't really have they have an explanation maybe for stage one,
but they don't. They really don't have any explanations for

(57:41):
any of the stages after that follow Yeah, okay, like
the out of body, the light of the tunnel, like
seeing I can see that, the meadow, seeing God, they
really don't know. They don't know if it's your brain
just firing its last you know, hallucinations, right, dreams, I
don't know, Yah, it's passing away. There needs to be

(58:04):
just more studies on this. I think it's so interesting,
but like it kind of impossible to study really because
you don't know when someone's about to have a near
death experience. Obviously, you can't talk to people who haven't
come back from them. Hard to do. And it's like hearsay,
like you can't prove it other than like.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
The people who have out of body and like see
details of that's right, the only like that thing you
can prove really, Yeah, And they feel like to a
certain degree it's like it. I think the argument could
be that it's like is that necessarily conclusive proof or
is that kind of like, is that really more categorized

(58:44):
as evidence of something? It doesn't maybe conclusively prove anything,
but it seems like really strong evidence or Yeah, I
feel like that's tough because I think we think of
things that are proof.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
But evidence is proof, right, I don't know. Like I said,
we're not scientists, we're remote because we had to finish
up different day. So yeah, we're here doing taro for
the near death experiences or indies for sure. I don't

(59:21):
know if we even talked about that. Indies if you're nicety.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, indies if you're nice day or if you got
really sucked into that show the OA oh during COVID.
Hey you can't really see my altar too well behind me.
But I have a little fun headstone I just got
that says literally dead, and I thought that that worked

(59:44):
perfectly for this episode. It's so perfect because he can't
use this for like a true crime episode because that
is insensitive as fuck.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
It's not great. It wouldn't be great for that. No
kind of funny when you're talking about near death and
your coming back from the because you were literally dead
and I was not. So it's still funny, and so
the tarot deck reason today I keep moving my head
from the microphone. It is Christina Ricci's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Tarot deck called Cat full of Spiders, and my mom
got it for me for my birthday, I think my
birth Yeah, my birthday, I think whatever. My mom got
it for me at some point I may and I
thought it was kind of funny to use too for
the near death experiences because cats have like nine lives and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
You know, it's perfect. Yeah. I don't know if Christina
Ricci has ever had an indeed, maybe we should ask her.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Yeah, okay, so the next time I call her, I
will just all all ask.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
I did Tiger in the story that I just made,
So maybe she'll see it and want to become besties.
That'd be great. We're using her tarot deck, yeah, because
we love her. Girl. Okay, So what I did earlier
is I haven't used this deck, so I kind of
like spread it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
You can see I like, oh yeah, I did the
all the spread. I just spread it all out and
you know, put it back together. So the cards are
real mixed up. They're all wonky donkey, they're like up
and down in sideways.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah. I love that for us. I'm gonna I'm gonna
make them all go into a normal deck state and
then shuffle them. Alrighty, and they've been sitting on selenite. Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Did I tell you that I put my laboo boo
on my selenite lamp in our bedroom? That's so cute. Yeah,
I hung my labooboo. Do we say I got a
la booo yet?

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Spoiler? Because we did it. We did a Patreon bonus.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
And I don't remember if we mentioned it in this
episode because it was like two days ago and that
was a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
But it was months ago. My labooo on my lamp,
not my Selenite lamp, but just my normal lamp. Like
where the the string as you pull it, there's a cord,
and so I hung it there and he just looks
so cute. I love it. Oh, it's a real stiff deck.
It's a real stiff yet. That's how we like it.

(01:02:14):
So we're picking a card for near death experiences cassies
or anybody else. Yeah, you didn't actually have one. She
just thought she did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Hey, if it's real to you in the moment, I
think like that's all that matters.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah, it's my party I'll die if I want to.
Oh love that for you. Do you have any feelings?

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I feel I as usual, feel like it's going to
be somewhere kind of maybe just to the left of center.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Ish. This feeling was like popping out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Yeah, it's like kind of center e. But it was like,
it feels like it wants to come out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
So let's see what it is. Ooh okay, we got christmasy,
we got a ton of pentacles and it was in reverse.
Oh okay, interesting this card that's kind of funny. And
we have a little interpretation book. I don't know what's
in it yet, so we're gonna find out together. I
don't know if it's just basic or if.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
It's special things, if it has any info on Christina
Ricci and the card and the scene.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I don't know. I love that. I'm going to read
it upright and in reverse because they do look like
they have interesting little interpretations here. Okay, so upright says
happy as a kid on Christmas. You're feeling not preposterous prosperous? Yes,

(01:03:40):
thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I was just guessing it's prosperous. Yeah, my brain was
like preposterous prosperous is preposterous. It's because the idea of
prosperity in the current era is just.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
So preposterous Forredian slips. Is that what you call that? Yes,
that is one thousand percent what you call that. Okay,
so you're happy as a kid on Christmas. You're feeling
prosperous and grateful. You've been good all year and are
being rewarded for your efforts. Share your abundance with those

(01:04:17):
who helped you get where you are today. A thankful
heart attracts good fortune.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Oh and so the reverse says, outwardly, life seems perfect,
but it really isn't. Oh but is it really a
question mark? That was a question, not a statement. Yeah,
but it really isn't. You know, but it like really isn't?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Or wait?

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Is it is discontent creeping in through the corners of
your life, like worrying factions spilling into the artificial utopic
town of Valley Port. That must be a very specific
reference to a movie or something that I don't understand.
It doesn't bring a bell for me either. Apologies, let

(01:04:59):
us know if you know what it is. We'd love
free to comment and tell us. Yeah, like, how dumb
we are for not knowing, Hey, no, I'm a smurty pants.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
You're feeling unfulfilled by your cookie cutter life and are
afraid to speak up out of fear of disappointing others. Uh,
give yourself permission to break the status quo and find
what truly makes you happy. I think this totally fits
in with the episode. It totally does, yeah, because it's
kind of like what I was feeling. You know, I've

(01:05:29):
been yeah, I mean we've talked, we kind of talked
about it in the past. I've not always wanted to
particularly live on this planet. Yeah, I'm in therapy and
I'm fine now, but like you know, you always have
that thought in the back of your mind, like man,
it would be just like so much easier, yeah yeah,
or like, well things are getting boring here, like oh
yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
And then you know, every time you think you feel
a little bit better, I find personally recently that the
planet is like, oh, you're you're thinking about sticking around.
Oh cool, hold my beer because I've got something else
for you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Literally, So I feel like that's kind of like, you know,
how I was feeling. And then I was sort of
faced with this first stage of death basically and realized,
you know, I'm good here kind of like the upright
version of the card like happy as a kid on Christmas,
feeling grateful, so ton of pentacles.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Our keywords are abundance, fulfillment, inheritance that's interesting, good fortune, property,
and family resources. The card has connections with family, especially
family money and property, but also the legacy of inherited

(01:06:50):
resources such as good health, intelligence, cultural benefits, etc.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Which like just kind of I don't know. To me,
I'm like maybe I'm reaching.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
But when you think about having a near death experience
or someone passing, it's like the next thing that comes
up is like, okay, everybody, we got to read the will.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Oh yeah, yeah that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
You have plenty and can now share your riches with others.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Oh that could be. That does remind me though of
like you have plenty, you can share your riches with others,
Like you can share your gratefulness. You can share your
story of your near death experience and maybe you know
someone else will also be more grateful for their life
or yeah something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah, people's stories can be really transformative, like even just
for people that are kind of hearing about them. In hindsight,
you know reflecting on that, I mean personally for the individual,
I think it obviously can be really transformative for them,
but even for as a third party, I guess is

(01:07:58):
what I'm saying. But okay, so a reverse interpretation, you
may be so established at this point that you're stagnating.
Maybe you've retired comfortably and now just sit around watching TV.
The reverse ten of pentacles can indicate problems with family members,
perhaps frustration, disagreements or responsibilities regarding a family business, property,

(01:08:24):
or inheritance.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Well, because if it's a near death experience, you're like, oh,
this person almost died. I'm not going to get their
inheritance because it came back.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
I mean you still will eventually, right, eventually, Yeah, everybody dies,
just not today. Get over yourself. It's not your money yet.
In a reading about money, the reverse ten can represent
losses or debt, which may be related to family troubles
or obligations. The debt is funny because the first thing

(01:08:57):
I thought when I woke up was a little like, dang.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I got him a bills. That's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
I remember you saying that, and I was like, yes,
but also you're alive.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
That's my biggest worry, I'm okay, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Or it can mean you don't inherit as much as
you'd expect it. Well, that's pretty much part for the course.
I feel like covered that it's lining up with real
life family feuds over money slash property are possible, which
is definitely Again, it just goes to like the reading

(01:09:36):
of the will, like that's the vibe I feel like,
or you know, you were saying like you like be
prepared for a death, or maybe this will if you
have a near death experience, then after you'll be like, Okay, I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Gotta get like my shit and order. I gotta get
my affairs in order. That's what exactly, Yes, get my
affairs an order. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
This card can also point to fluctuations in the marketplace
or real estate values that threaten your security.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Joke's on you. I don't got none of that that
it's not applicable in this situation. Yeah yeah, yeah, I
mean I'm sure it applies to other people. That's fine, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
What what's it like to own property? If the reading
is about your job, you may not be using your
resources and abilities fully, or you may not receive the
compensation and success you feel you deserve a business, perhaps

(01:10:40):
a family operation may hit hard times. Sometimes this card
shows you rejecting the material world for the spiritual one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Oh yeah, that seems like a huge thing. People kind
of go through go through this, Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
In a reading about love of financial and or family
problems may cause friction and unhappiness in a relationship. Responsibilities
for children or elderly parents might place strain on you.
Emotional baggage and old hurts may interfere with your happiness.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Let that shit go, man, doesn't matter. Do what makes
you happy. That's what I'm doing, not paying my bills
and just doing what makes me happy. That's what I've
learned from this experience.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Yeah, I love that that was your number one worry
when you came to and now you're like, ah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Fuck it. I did think it was interesting because she's
like reaching for the star at the top of the tree,
and like the star is usually lit up, you know,
she's reaching for the light. Oh that could be a stretch.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Oh you know they kind of did, Okay, this is
this is interesting because they did kind of you know,
like the tunnel, the darkness, the void. No, I think
the imagery is there, like You're so right, And they
kind of described it as a funnel sometimes, like a
funnel going into the light.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
That's kind of what I'm saying, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
I there, Well, wow, this has me really reflecting on
the holiday season in a different way.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Christmas equals death. That that is true, though, don't people
more people die by suicide like during the holidays. I
think people.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Like in general around a lot of major holidays, but
Christmas is a like that time of year because you know,
people are impacted by like seasonal depression when you have
like extended periods of time, like you know kind of
the depending on where you're at, like regionally and sort

(01:12:58):
of your socioeconomic like background and everything, like, you might
have not even just your immediate family, but you might
even have like extended family. That's like you guys are
kind of gathered for you know, a period in like
the window from like basically Thanksgiving to like New Year's

(01:13:19):
and so like it it exacerbates like any sort of
tension that's there, and that's part of intention like can
mean a lot of things. But during COVID, there was
such a spike in domestic violence and like really like
the worstening of those you know, family and home situations

(01:13:42):
because people had no escape from each other.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Ah, you need a break, and yeah, yeah, exactly, take
vacations from your vacations.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Yeah, I'm ready for my next vacation from a vacation.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
Too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
I'm ready to take a real vacation, I know. Okay,
we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
You got to work first. We got to work first. Okay,
we can't do the fun things first this time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
I guess, have we not been working? I felt like
that's what we were doing more more, Yeah, I've done yet. Okay, well,
we are kind of done with this episode, I think,
unless there was any like extra exerpts or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
You know, it's funny you say that, because so this
is the uh ten of Pentacles, right, and then the
next page is chapter nine, and that begins the Suit
of Swords. There is an extra excerpt at like the
top of this page as it introduces the swords that
I was like, kind of just as I glanced down

(01:14:51):
at sort of like caught my eye. It says life
is pain. An old Chinese proverb says life is pain.
Pain makes you think, thinking makes you wise, and wisdom
makes life endurable. The swords represent this perspective, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
I was like, I just glanced at it, and I
was like, oh, that's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
And I was like, what are the odds that we drew?
So here's the thing. What is it? Oh eyebroke. Okay,
so this is at the bottom that it caught my
eye too, oh swords, Yeah, because you know it's in
a cemetery. So I was like, oh, I really like
that card.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
So the thing is is that, like the Ten of Pentacles,
it starts on page one twenty seven in this book,
but the reverse like very neatly, evenly perfectly falls onto
page like one twenty eight, and then at the very
bottom of the following pages where it has like the
intro to Swords, and that little extra excerpt is there

(01:15:58):
as part of the intro to Swords. And I was like,
that's so weird because if we had drawn, if we
had drawn this card in the upright position, I never
probably would have looked at that excerpt, because I wouldn't
have turned over the page and like been settled on
that and just kind of like scanning.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Yeah. I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
I like when stuff like that happens because it just
adds like a little extra thing you weren't expecting, or yeah,
and it totally fits, like what exactly what we're talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, it did, was meant to be, twas meant to be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Oh, I didn't even realize I put there's a spider
on on my headstone here? Oh yeah, the deck I
used this cap full of spiders.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Oh would you look at the app?

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
You're like, yeah, spider is Oh have a creepy day
seam next Tuesday, you better not die on this come that?

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Yeah, if you die, come back please either way you're
coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
You've no choice.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Anyway. Why did it so well? Anyone else feel like?
It's hot and panickyan here