October 1, 2025 • 47 mins
This episode is about aftermath — the people left behind, the communities left reeling, grief compounded, and resilience tested. The story of Normandale Park didn’t end when the shots stopped. In Part 2, we trace Benjamin Jeffrey Smith’s arrest, eventual guilty plea, and sentencing — alongside the devastating loss of Deg, whose death was later ruled a homicide linked to that night.
For some, the Portland Police Bureau’s framing in early statements was enraging, a painful distortion of what had truly happened. For others, those same words confirmed the stereotypes and suspicions they already held about demonstrators, the BLM movement, even Portland as a city. Layered onto this divide was the revelation that the FBI had been aware of Smith beforehand, a fact that unsettled many and deepened mistrust.
This isn’t just the second half of a crime story; it’s the ongoing fight to hold institutions accountable while honoring those whose lives were forever changed. It’s about Portland, but it’s also about much more: the way stories like this echo across the country, and the lessons we can’t afford to ignore.
Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us atpnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources
For some, the Portland Police Bureau’s framing in early statements was enraging, a painful distortion of what had truly happened. For others, those same words confirmed the stereotypes and suspicions they already held about demonstrators, the BLM movement, even Portland as a city. Layered onto this divide was the revelation that the FBI had been aware of Smith beforehand, a fact that unsettled many and deepened mistrust.
This isn’t just the second half of a crime story; it’s the ongoing fight to hold institutions accountable while honoring those whose lives were forever changed. It’s about Portland, but it’s also about much more: the way stories like this echo across the country, and the lessons we can’t afford to ignore.
Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us atpnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Normandale Park Part two, despite having reviewed
the footage. An early statement issued by Portland's police chief
following the incident described Smith's attack as a confrontation between
an armed homeowner and armed protesters.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Okay, an armed homeowner would be the violent man would be.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Smith, okay, and the armed protester that would be you know,
the unarmed protest organizers. Right. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi.
Creepy people, helloo, hellu. This is PNW Hansen Homicides where
(00:50):
we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things
spooky in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, we do. And we also do a tarot reader.
Oh wait, the BNW if you're nasty, nasty, nay hey,
and we do tarror reading at the end of every
episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Yep,
I was really excited to talk about Taro again. She
was so excited.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
All right, So this is the Normandale Park Part two,
and I'm just going to get right into it really Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I feel like I just need to know the rest
of the story.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
In the days immediately following the Normandale Park shooting, Portland's
activist community was reeling the death of June t Rex Nightly.
The critical injury sustained and trauma endured by so many
others created shock waves that could not be contained to
the boundaries of the park. Reporters scrambled for details, law
(01:55):
enforcement issued their first statements, and survivors struggle.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
To process what had just happened.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Still, this was not the type of group to pack
up and leave quietly, even in the face of such
horrific adversity, though it would certainly be understandable.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, but I definitely can't see them as that type anyway,
because they're already facing horrific adversity.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So yeah, I mean, the impulse is understandable, But they
sure didn't. They didn't, They sure didn't. All of June's
friends went back to Corking within three months time. Even
Dagg was able to participate via live stream after being
left paralyzed after the events of that night.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Let's backtrack ever so slightly.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The night of the shooting, Hope had surrendered two authorities
at eight twenty seven pm and was charged with two
felonies hopeless yep.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, wasn't that one of the people helping like helping
shot the Okay? Because because the gunshots were indistinguishable from.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
They did technically fire upon someone at the scene.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
They immediately asked for legal counsel. Within hours, the charges
were dropped once law enforcement and prosecutors were able to
view the footage that Desia had recorded of the incident.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh thank God, Oh, thank God, Thank Jesus, Christ, Jesus.
I don't often thank God, but for some reason that
came out. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I feel like it's that deeply embedded that like sometimes
it just slips out and you're like.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh, thank God, thank the universe.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Despite having reviewed the footage, an early statement issued by
Portland's police chief following the incident described Smith's attack as
a confrontation between an armed homeowner and armed protesters.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Okay, an armed homeowner would be the violent man would be.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Smith, okay, and the armed protestered that would be you know,
the unarmed protest organizers, right, got it. The news coverage
that immediately followed the incident similarly continued to mischaracterize the
events of that February evening. Smith was of course taken
(04:23):
into custody following the shooting as well, having been shot
in the hip by the volunteer guard who acted to
stop his rampage. He was hospitalized but survived, fortunately or unfortunately,
whichever way you land on that, and shortly thereafter was
charged with multiple counts second degree murder for the killing
(04:45):
of June t Rex Nightly, attempted murder for the attacks
on other demonstrators, and assault charges. In early court appearances,
Smith pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, confused, I have confusion on my face if the
words were coming, Yeah, sure, I agree.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I feel like sometimes it's great if like catch the YouTube,
if the if the silence is too awkward on you know,
Spotify or Apple.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Like confusion, face, I have confusion.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
It quickly became clear that the story of Benjamin Jeffrey
Smith did not start on February nineteenth, twenty twenty two.
This was not an isolated act of violence, and there's
actually multiple acts of violence that I didn't even include
that have been talked about in some places, and I
(05:45):
just didn't find a ton of source material on it.
And I also just felt like, I don't know how
relevant it is, but suffice to say that he has
just been a kind of violent dude for minute.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, I'm shocked, I know, this guy who just
randomly got so violent so quickly for basically no reason.
It's weird. Weird how that doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Indeed, my notes say instead it was the culmination of
years of warning signs, red flags, and systemic failures. The
case moves slowly through Oregon's judicial system, but in April
twenty twenty three, Smith changed his plea to guilty or accurate.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, guilty, Yeah he did it. I'll be the one,
I assume. I mean, I trust all the yeah that
you're telling me.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
There's literally bodycam footage of him being the one doing it.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So that's kind of what I figured.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It's pretty compelling. He was sentenced to life in prison,
with the possibility of parole after fifty five years. Effectively,
this ensures that he will spend the rest of his
life behind bars.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I mean, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I'm okay with it. I've made my peace with it.
The judge also reserved fifty eight thousand dollars in restitution
for the victims through the States Crime Victims Compensation Fund,
which is not a lot of money for how many
people were shot.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was about to say, how many people, what's that again?
Question mark, my voice gets really high. I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
One of the most harrowing stories is that of Dag.
Shot in the neck. She was paralyzed from the neck down.
She survived only through intensive medical intervention and lived with
the constant support of ventilators and caregivers. Dag fought bravely. Friends, family,
(07:55):
and fellow activists described her as resilient, funny, and determined
to live even under impossible circumstances. Digg's injuries left her
unable to go more than an hour without the support
of others. Further complications were constant, repeated bouts of pneumonia,
(08:17):
additional hospitalizations, and the daily challenges of a truly life
changing injury. She had lost so much control, her mother said,
requesting that neither her name nor her daughter's name their
full names be used to protect their privacy. Dag reportedly
(08:38):
hosted a birthday party for herself, where she invited forty
of her family and friends. For the first time in
two and a half years, she was able to enjoy
her loved ones without a mask. There was no fear.
Her mother said, this was something that was her decision.
(08:59):
I could argue with her, but we miss her desperately.
In July of twenty twenty four, Dak made the decision
to be removed from life support. She passed away shortly
thereafter in her childhood home. Her death was officially ruled
a homicide directly linked to the injury she sustained in
(09:23):
the Normandale Park shooting. Clearly that meant the tragedy claimed
the second life, another devastating blow for Portland's activist community.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What was it just because she was having complication? Like
she had a complication, she.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Was permanently paralyzed from the neck down. She had just
suffered a lot in the short time since the shooting.
From the very beginning, the Portland Police Bureau mishandled the
public narrative of the Normandale Park shooting. I can't help
but notice that you don't look surprised.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm not. No, and
I don't. I'm not and I don't I'm not no doubt.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Their first press release described the incident as a confrontation
between an armed homeowner and armed protesters, and this description
was flatly inaccurate, but.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Makes it sound like they were like intruding on his home.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right and that's important because they don't outright say that,
but words matter.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, and your people are going to take away tone
that you may not even realize is is being implied.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I just like, what is what does him being a
homeowner have to do with anything about the situation.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Here's the funny thing. Next sentence, I sorry, I'm getting outrage. Nope,
you should be outraged. You should be because Ali who
also what shot multiple times, Ali perhaps said it best,
not only a smith, not a homeowner, which is pretty
(11:12):
small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. That's my statement.
She says, not only a smith, not a homeowner. We
were not armed. We were in a public space. We
were on a road next to a public park. We
never entered his personal space. We never threatened him, none
of us approached him. It was him acting towards us
(11:34):
and us defending ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Literally like, yeah, said it best.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And they absolutely one thousand percent have the footage in
real time to prove this.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
If he's not even a fucking homeowner, why why other
than to make that sound like how it sounds.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And maybe that was just confusion in the early reporting.
I want to believe that, Okay, cool, confusion fix it. Yeah, yep, yep.
Smith was not a homeowner. He was a tenant in
a nearby apartment, and aside from one volunteer guard who
(12:16):
returned fire, the demonstrators were not armed. Yeah, and I
think we can say that was some confidence because when
the authorities showed up at the scene, if there were
additional weapons, that would have been noted. Yeah, everyone's vehicles
would have been searched.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, they took what The one other person who did
have a gun, right, yep, hope was arrested. The rest
of that person arrested.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And charged with multiple felonies. Okay, yeah, so yeah, which
is fair. They have to, you know, act in a
certain level of caution. But if there were more weapons,
they would have known about it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Or wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
They can't have it both ways, like are you are
you not good at searching people's cars at a crime scene. Anyway,
they were neighbors, activists, and volunteers gathered to support a
community march. The framing by PPP did more than just misspeak.
(13:17):
It implied that those shot bore responsibility for their own injuries. Yeah,
and there's a very upsetting statement that was made by
Ted Wheeler I believe within just months of this shooting,
(13:40):
where he basically said that, you know, protesters were getting
out of control and people needed to kind of take.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Justice into their own hands. What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
What do you think I mean to the right or
the wrong person? Those mean very different things. But I
remember watching the Forensic Architecture documentary and Deja said, I
remember watching that and thinking he's going to get somebody
killed for her. It was like, he's going to get
(14:13):
one of my friends killed. Seriously, for survivors and families,
this felt like salt in the wound. June, t Rex
Knightley was memorialized as a generous, joyful figure in Portland's
activist community. Daig and the others who were injured were
(14:34):
left to fight for their lives to see them described
as though they were the aggressors, while Smith's role was
softened into that of a supposedly embattled homeowner. Absolutely infuriating.
Forensic Architecture's reconstruction and eyewitness testimony helped community activists who
(14:56):
immediately pushed back on this framing. Journalists and survivors alike
pointed out that the bureau's language played into a long
history of law enforcement minimizing or misrepresenting far right violence
while painting racial justice activists in a negative light. It
(15:18):
took nearly three years for Portland police leadership to acknowledge
this misrepresentation.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And how much damage was done in that three years
because of people who thought that.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
In January twenty twenty five, Chief Bob Day issued a
formal apology, admitting that the bureau's early statements about Normandale
Park had been wrong and harmful. Day said press releases
issued in the hours after the February shooting in Northeast
(15:54):
Portland had described the victim as armed protesters, when in
fact they were unarmed traffic safety volunteers known as corkers.
Words matter, and I'm glad the statement was issued, but
it feels like a couple years late and therefore a
few bucks short.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Sorry, But yeah, they weren't even the demonstrators, the protesters
they were once protecting them.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
They were people trying to help direct traffic safely, help
people that are protesting peacefully, as is their literal constitutional
right do so safely. But by then the damage was
already done.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Called it who could have called it? Psychat? Cassie over here.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, survivors and activists said the apology felt perfunctory and
far too late. Trust had already eroded, and the community
felt re traumatized by the delay. In the eyes of many,
the apology read as a bureaucratic necessity rather than a
genuine reckoning with harm caused. Perhaps the most devastating revelations
(17:11):
after the shooting were not just about what happened in
Normandale Park, but about what had been known about Benjamin
Jeffrey Smith long before February twenty twenty two. Smith was
not an unknown figure to law enforcement. Beginning as early
as two thousand and six, tips were filed with the
(17:33):
FBI about his violent rhetoric and extremistbehavior online. Over the years,
multiple reports painted a picture of someone steeped in far
right ideology, expressing violent fantasies and making threats. By twenty
twenty one, Smith had attracted enough concern that FBI agents
(17:53):
actually interviewed him as a part of a threat assessment.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Wow, they didn't. They didn't get him.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
They found him troubling, but concluded that he did not
meet the threshold for continued investigation.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I'm curious what that threshold is and like how close
to it he was it's tough.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I mean it's tough because until you actually hurt someone, right.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Like, I don't think you should treat people like they're
going to Yeah, really it cause a crime or tough,
it's really tough.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. The FBI's standard is that there must be clear
evidence of an eminent threat, an eminent federal crime, or
national security threat. Okay, because Smith was only making general
threats online without a specific plot, they closed the inquiry.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
You can't fucking arrest every troll, right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, but it wasn't just strangers or internet users raising alarms.
Though Smith's own cousin called Portland's non emergency line and
twenty twenty one to report that Smith had made death threats,
and though it's unclear why that tip went nowhere. Though
(19:10):
it is clear that multiple red flags existed, the public
record does not definitively show what became of the cousin's call,
or whether law enforcement locally pursued it aggressively. Jurisdictional questions
and delays seem to have played a role, but the
exact path from report to response remains murky, which is
(19:35):
a polite way of saying, who the fuck knows?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I mean, that makes sense, for something that seems to
not have gone anywhere that they wouldn't track. Yeah, how
it got to get nowhere?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Some reporting that I saw indicates that the PPB transferred
that report to Indiana police because that's where he had
previously been living, which I don't know. I don't know,
that's just something I read.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's not unlike police bullshit that we've
heard about so many times.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I can't substantiate that I could have happened good,
Sure could.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Doesn't even feel unlikely. But the result is what security
experts call the known wolf problem.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
These are not people who appear out of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
They are people well documented by law enforcement, but who
nevertheless go on to commit horrific acts of violence. In
Smith's case, he was a known wolf for more than
a decade, yet because he never quite tripped the narrow
thresholds for federal action, he was allowed to slip through
the cracks. The FBI argues that civil liberties and constitutional
(20:57):
protections limit how far they can go in monitoring someone
like Smith without clear evidence of crime, which may hold
a grain of truth under a previous administration.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Why is making threats not a crime?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah? I mean, in certain instances it is. If they're
vague enough, it's not. I feel like any sort of
threat that's a threat. If you're making any kind of threat,
I feel like that should be just a crime. It's
hard to prosecute if there's not a specifically identifiable victim
or potential victim.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Can't I mean give a ticket something something, I mean speed,
I get a ticket, But someone who threatens people online
doesn't get a ticket. It's hard. It's hard. I'm not
saying it makes sense, Caitlin, Fixed are just a system
right now.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
But for Portland's activist community, and for the families of June,
Nightly and Day, this explanation likely rings hollow.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It's difficult to fathom.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
How someone could honestly have been repeatedly reported, interviewed by
the FBI as an official threat assessment, and flagged by
his own family, and yet still managed to carry out
such a violent attack. The answer lies in how American
(22:28):
law enforcement and intelligence agencies historically prioritize threats. Many experts
argue that American law enforcement and intelligence agencies have historically
been slower to respond to far right threats than other
forms of extremism, especially in cases where warning signs were vague,
(22:50):
or the threats presented themselves online, or they were what
In some instances, people making these warnings say they felt
those reports were treated as nuisances rather than urgent red flags.
For the survivors of Normandale Park, this is more than
(23:12):
an academic point. It is a matter of life and
death and a matter of trust. And when law enforcement
compounds the harm by misrepresenting what happened as PPB did,
trust erodes even further. This case is another haunting example
of a man known for his rage and extremism, reported
(23:36):
again and again, and yet still managed to kill and
name his neighbors. It leaves the community asking not just
how this was allowed to happen, but whether those tasked
with preventing such violence ever truly took the threat seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Clearly not, And.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Because I realized that, you know, in order to live
in a country where we have rights, there are going
to be restrictions and you're not going to be able
to stop every crime. That's not what anyone, I think,
in their right mind would set out to do. But
(24:20):
it seems like we got a lot of white guys
with guns slipping through the cracks weird.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Anybody want to take a look at that? I think
something was going on here.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
As Part two of this story draws to a close,
the violent acts of one man continue to cause a
lingering ripple effect. Smith was no mystery. He was someone
the FBI had interviewed, someone family had reported, someone whose
rhetoric was public and extreme and hateful, and yet when
(24:57):
it mattered, he was treated as just another angry voice.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
On the Internet.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
He will be known for his fiendish rage and bigotry
if it's the last goddamn thing I do.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
His victims were and.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Are, people that cared about others, their community, equity, and justice,
and they themselves were traumatized by not only that evil man,
but also revictimized by the very same insensitive system they
hoped could be.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Changed for the better.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
For Portland's activist community, the Normandale Park shooting is remembered
not only for the lives lost and forever changed, but
also for how law enforcement institutions failed them twice, first
by not heeding warnings about Smith and then by misrepresenting
what happened on February nineteenth, twenty two. And yet, in
(26:01):
the wake of unimaginable tragedy and violence, there is resilience.
June t Rex Knightley is remembered for her kindness and
commitment to keeping others safe. Day is remembered for her
humor and bravery. Even the face of paralysis, survivors continue
(26:27):
to tell the truth of what happened, refusing to allow
ppb's early narrative to define the tragedy. And this is
the tension at the heart of so many stories that
we tell on this show. It's the cruelty of violence
(26:47):
set against the persistence of community. For every systemic failure,
there are people that step up and they take care
of other people. They care for one another. For every misrepresentation,
there are witnesses and survivors insisting on accuracy. What happened
(27:13):
at Normandale Park is irreversible. Lives were stolen and futures reshaped.
But the story doesn't end there. It lives on in
the memory of the community that refuses to let silence
or misrepresentation erase the truth. To honor them means not
(27:40):
just telling the story, but insisting that it be heard fully, clearly,
and without distortion, like you're doing hopefully, Yeah, I mean
trying to Yes, yeah, you are. I mean, as I
understand the facts, but it's just it's crazy to me,
(28:05):
like how many people have just still like just don't know,
and like they remember the story that they heard, you
know a few years ago about how these protesters shot
a homeowner what you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
However, it goes like that's what they're going to.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Remember and that's very much part of the narrative about
how oh antifa is taking over Portland. And this is
why I had people in La texting me asking me like,
are you okay?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
You can come stay with me? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
A lot of people, a lot of people here, Yeah,
And it was, you know, it was a scary time,
Like you don't you don't exactly know what's going on
all the time, but yeah, like it's just so dangerous
to I think, just misinformation like steer people away from
protesting too, Like that's yeah, extremely important, Like why do
(29:00):
you want I feel like not do that right now
in particular? Yeah, And I don't think that. When I
started working on this case, I realized fully the broader
implications of so much of it to what's happening in
(29:21):
such a big, dramatic and scary, scary way right now,
and it just seems to get scarier every day, and
it's hard to know how anything that you say will
maybe tie into something that's going to happen a week
from now, because who fucking knows.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It's I don't say that like not where's the wood?
Can we knock in the wood? No?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I mean it's it's like it's a kangaroo court where
I mean, people are making it up as they go,
and yeah, it's scary times. It's scary times. And this happened,
you know, just a couple of years ago, but it
been a couple of years ago, and the apology was
(30:03):
this year, less than nine months ago.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
The apology was issued. Like, think about something that could
be happening right now, like protests that could be happening
right now, where the same thing happens. Yep, And then
you're thinking that the wrong side was the one, you
know what I mean? Yep, you're thinking that the right
people are on the wrong side. Yeah, for three years,
how everybody is and for some people that perception is
(30:30):
just never going to be corrected. Yeah. I say it
all the time, but words matter.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I'm not here certainly not advocating for censorship, but.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Fuck, it's obviously we would know.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's I feel so stupid for saying we're not advocating
for censorship.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I mean, but you're saying words matter, like we don't.
We don't want you to not like have option to
say certain words or you know, just say the words
in the right way. I just I just.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Feel like right now, sometimes I have to say things
that feel like to me they're obvious, and sometimes I
have to say things because I just I mean, I
don't know. I just I hate to be over the top,
but I just I feel like sometimes I'm like, what
if I don't have the chance to say this later.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I don't know like how people are going to
take things, because we know, like there's people on the
other side of us who are also terrified and scared
about how their world is going to and so they
can look at us and what we're saying and be like,
see they want censorship, and yeah, so you know that's
where we're coming from.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I think, Yeah, the world is scary, and I would
like to take a nap.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Everyone's scared of each other, and you know what, we
all should just take a nap together. And then I
think like a universal nap time would do us haul
a lot? Can we all just take a nap? Siesta?
Fucking genius? Just hello, God, there's a culture that got
it right.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I was just thinking, I'm like, I don't know if
everything else in that country is fucked, but they got
that right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That seems good to me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm not a great napper. I'm not great at it.
Just rest, just rest, just rest.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
But also if I was raised from birth taking naps,
and that was like the culture, Yeah, maybe I don't
know a bit of a tangent.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
You're not a napper. Maybe you know, have a little
afternoon delight, oh by yourself? Or who.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Shame me up? Okay, I have a whiny dog over here.
She is like, cannot get herself back up into.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, let's go to Taro, Go to Taro.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, let's do it. When I was shuffling, I was
seeing a ton of swords.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Okay, so we got the nine of Swords in reverse,
and it's a woman of color sitting on a bed,
crying with her hands in her face. Yeah, her hands
in her face, her head in her hands. Yeah yeah,
her head in her hands. Did I say that right?
Did I say that? A woman of color? Is that
what they Yeah, Okay, I'm like, I don't know, I
(33:26):
say things wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Like honestly, I feel like it's important to pay attention
to you will prefer like what.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
A black person, But I don't exactly know.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Not every nationality feels the same about it, And I
think it's important to pay attention to, like what the
right nomenclature is. But I think that the vast majority
of people are not mad if you get it wrong. Yeah,
so long as you're willing to accept, you know, criticism
about because I know that words matter, right exactly exactly,
(33:59):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I don't want to say anything that's going to hurt
anybody's feelings, that's all.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So, oh, and we mentioned that they were so they're
wearing a beanie and I had said that you mentioned
someone who said they got shot in the head and
you can see like a hole in their beatie. Yes,
did they actually get shot in the header? Did they
get shot in the beanie? No?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
They were they they were shot? Who Okay, I was like,
who who was.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Did they die? No?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Okay, no, because technically that wasn't June you were talking. No, No,
June was shot at close range and she was dead
almost immediately, Okay, and then Dake was the other casualty,
and that happened roughly two years later.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
So wow.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But yeah, obviously like numerous people were shot and injured.
You know, It's funny because I talked about how the
the demonstrators, the people that were actually marching versus the
organizer group, they were on opposite ends of the park,
And I can't help but think that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
If this had happened on the other end of the.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Park, like how much larger of a victim pool there
potentially was. That is very true, which is I mean
just horrific that you think about those type of calculations
when it comes to you know, gun violence.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, but I mean, yeah, the more people in one area,
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Like a small space, and I mean granted it's outdoors,
but like can't outrun a bullet, Okay, flash. So nine
of sorts and we drew this in the reverse, right,
Yes we did. Our keywords are despair, isolation, sadness, fear, grief,
(36:12):
and shame.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Shame.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
The Nine of Swords shows extreme anxiety, nightmares, tension, unhappiness,
regrets over past mistakes or misfortunes. In many decks. This
card shows a person weeping while nine great swords loom
above him or her. In the writer Smith's deck, a
(36:40):
woman sits up in bed as if waking from a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Y PTSD. Seriously, Yeah, I was thinking about what all
the people who went through after or what what the
people went through after like and then you know, having
the stories come out about them that were wrong and
having the wrong perception about them. That's like a nightmare.
And like how many of those swords do you have
(37:07):
to take? Okay?
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Because this suit represents mental activity, much of your suffering,
maybe in your own mind. There's an extra excerpt. Too
many of us are not living our dreams because we
are living our fears.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well, I mean a lot of us don't have a
chance but to live our fears. Yeah, that's that's like
the one thing about this card I don't I think
in some situations that can apply, but I don't think
in a lot of them. Like you know that it's
all in your head thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
No, And I think that I think the takeaway is
maybe not so much that it's all in your head.
I think that it has to do with kind of
a mental and emotional anguish. Yeah. Again, in this case,
I think that really applies.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Like you kind of can't escape being in your.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Head, even if you weren't physically or directly impacted by
the actual violence of the shooting. The toll that that
takes on you mentally. Nine signify completion, and the reverse
nine can point to the end of a crisis or
(38:22):
a period of despair. You may have determined the root
cause of your misery and are ready to deal with it. Oh,
I just that makes me think of Deg. Perhaps you've
stopped feeling sorry for yourself and are willing to make
the changes necessary to repair the damage and move on.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Oh that kind of reminds me though, the police apologizing
years and years later.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But that I mean, honestly, that still makes me think
of Deg. I feel like she was ready to move on,
like in it for sure, but like just kind of
the way you put it, like make your apologies and
move on.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's kind of.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, that's true. I can understand that. Yeah, very different
sides of the same old point. In some cases, this
card may indicate getting professional help with the problem, if only,
if only.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
That's maybe what some people should have done. Yeah, to
begin with.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
In a reading about money, this card can mean, you
see where you made mistakes and begin the process of rebuilding.
After a loss, it may be difficult to pull yourself
out of your problems, but the reverse nine suggest the
worst is over.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Don't give up they did, you know, rebuild and go
back to Yeah, we're testing.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And I don't think that there was ever because this
technically didn't go to trial in the way that traditionally
most of us think about it. There wasn't really a trial.
It was like he pled guilty. There's not really like
trial footage to go back to, like I mean, I
(40:15):
think back to like the Nancy Brophy case, and we
literally were able to see footage of the.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Trial day to day.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
One thing that I didn't choose to include in either
Part one or Part two was that at court, Smith's
lawyer basically said that, you know, he chose not to
make a statement in court, which is something that was
his right to and it's an opportunity in these situations
(40:49):
to sort of express remorse. And kind of the explanation
was that he, in hindsight, just felt so abominable and
just couldn't bring himself to to speak in court. And yeah,
I mean it certainly elicits an eye roll from me.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
But if I mean, I wouldn't want to speak in
court either if I had done that.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So yeah, and you'd like to think that it was
truly out of some form of remorse source and care.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, I mean that feels probably far more likely.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
If the reading is about your job, you may have
suffered as a result of someone else's jealousy, criticism, or nastiness. However,
this card encourages you to stand up for yourself and
stop wallowing in fear or self pity. It may also
recommend changing jobs.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That just yeah, that just reminds me too of the
protesters and how they were portrayed and kind of get
up and keep going and don't get a different job.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
But like I had ros, don't get a different job.
Keep protesting reminds me of PPP. Yeah personally, but yeah,
they should get a different job. I don't know, I
don't know. In a reading about love, you may be
examining a relationship deeply to decide if it's worth staying
(42:16):
or if you'd be better off leaving. Sometimes being alone
is preferable to remaining in an unhappy situation. Make that
the truth, Yeah, be honest. You may have deceived yourself
for a while.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Huh. This makes me think of his previous roommate. She's
the one that.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Shared a lot about his developing political and other ideologies
about Like, I was scared of him. He suddenly was
like a conspiracy theorist and he was anti mask And.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Was that his cousin or was that a different that's a.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Different person that also was afraid of him and felt scared. Yeah, no,
he threatened his cousin. The roommate was just somebody who
had to deal with his day to day craziness.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
What was his job?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
You know, if I came across it in my research,
I don't recall, to be honest, I'm just curious. Yeah,
I don't know. That is I find that interesting to
know kind of the.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
What did you do? What did you get up to
day to day? Do get up to? Were do you
know these crazy Were you just online? Were you just
chronically online? Just chronically online? You were from home? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I mean a lot of people did back then. Maybe
he got laid off and that's why he was man.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Who knows? Again, I say, just shoot yourself. I mean
maybe just maybe just do that.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
There's an extra excerpt. Okay, I'm ready for it. There
are very few monsters who weren't the fear we have of.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
When they call him a known wolf.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
And I feel like outside of a situation where he
has the advantage of surprise and he has a weapon
and those around him are unarmed, I don't he was
a monster. Yeah, he was a monster, but I think that,
you know, it's like he created that situation. Yeah, And
(44:29):
I just feel like he's somebody that I don't think
anybody would have felt like they had.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Any reason to fear him. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Maybe maybe that speaks to, in a way, sort of
evaluating who we think we should fear and why and.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, again, what's that threshold and why was he hander it?
That's like that's what I want to know, Like, what
was he doing? We need to lower the bar a
little bit. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
It's I mean, again, it's hard, and we don't want censorship. Yeah,
it really gets hard though, because unfortunately, as horrific as
some of the things that I know that he has
like publicly said are, it's not specifically threatening an individual
(45:19):
or even targeting a specific group. So it's really it's
really hard from a legal standpoint. That being said, I think.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Maybe maybe we spend a little time.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
No, I'm a guy, I don't know. Hatch them like
an egg.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I'm not I'm not an expert. But throw a tracker
on that, bitch.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm just kidding. Have aday. We'll see you next Tuesday.
Unless you're a furry and a murderer, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Then see a never loser A.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Welcome for he's always welcome. I want to shirt that
say that for he's always alcome. I want, you know,
the pants with the words across the butt juicy free's always.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Cut that up like that might controversial stamped across your
I know I'm not a best reality, don't worry. Despite
having reviewed the footage, an early statement issued by Portland's
Beleef Cheese Beleef Cheese, the Police Cheese.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Beleef Cheese. That might be the takeout cheese. Oh my god,
it's only seven o five pm. It's not we can't
even say it's so late noat okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Only I want to be home before midnight.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Okay, how long does this feel?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Though?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
It's only been ten minutes and last time it took
nine minutes to even start. I feel like we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
We're doing great, okay perspective, see what Okay, I'm gonna scroll.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I'm here for us, yeah, bak glob
This is the Normandale Park Part two, despite having reviewed
the footage. An early statement issued by Portland's police chief
following the incident described Smith's attack as a confrontation between
an armed homeowner and armed protesters.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Okay, an armed homeowner would be the violent man would be.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Smith, okay, and the armed protester that would be you know,
the unarmed protest organizers. Right. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi.
Creepy people, helloo, hellu. This is PNW Hansen Homicides where
(00:50):
we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things
spooky in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, we do. And we also do a tarot reader.
Oh wait, the BNW if you're nasty, nasty, nay hey,
and we do tarror reading at the end of every
episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Yep,
I was really excited to talk about Taro again. She
was so excited.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
All right, So this is the Normandale Park Part two,
and I'm just going to get right into it really Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I feel like I just need to know the rest
of the story.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
In the days immediately following the Normandale Park shooting, Portland's
activist community was reeling the death of June t Rex Nightly.
The critical injury sustained and trauma endured by so many
others created shock waves that could not be contained to
the boundaries of the park. Reporters scrambled for details, law
(01:55):
enforcement issued their first statements, and survivors struggle.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
To process what had just happened.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Still, this was not the type of group to pack
up and leave quietly, even in the face of such
horrific adversity, though it would certainly be understandable.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, but I definitely can't see them as that type anyway,
because they're already facing horrific adversity.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So yeah, I mean, the impulse is understandable, But they
sure didn't. They didn't, They sure didn't. All of June's
friends went back to Corking within three months time. Even
Dagg was able to participate via live stream after being
left paralyzed after the events of that night.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Let's backtrack ever so slightly.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The night of the shooting, Hope had surrendered two authorities
at eight twenty seven pm and was charged with two
felonies hopeless yep.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, wasn't that one of the people helping like helping
shot the Okay? Because because the gunshots were indistinguishable from.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
They did technically fire upon someone at the scene.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
They immediately asked for legal counsel. Within hours, the charges
were dropped once law enforcement and prosecutors were able to
view the footage that Desia had recorded of the incident.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Oh thank God, Oh, thank God, Thank Jesus, Christ, Jesus.
I don't often thank God, but for some reason that
came out. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I feel like it's that deeply embedded that like sometimes
it just slips out and you're like.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh, thank God, thank the universe.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Despite having reviewed the footage, an early statement issued by
Portland's police chief following the incident described Smith's attack as
a confrontation between an armed homeowner and armed protesters.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Okay, an armed homeowner would be the violent man would be.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Smith, okay, and the armed protestered that would be you know,
the unarmed protest organizers, right, got it. The news coverage
that immediately followed the incident similarly continued to mischaracterize the
events of that February evening. Smith was of course taken
(04:23):
into custody following the shooting as well, having been shot
in the hip by the volunteer guard who acted to
stop his rampage. He was hospitalized but survived, fortunately or unfortunately,
whichever way you land on that, and shortly thereafter was
charged with multiple counts second degree murder for the killing
(04:45):
of June t Rex Nightly, attempted murder for the attacks
on other demonstrators, and assault charges. In early court appearances,
Smith pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, confused, I have confusion on my face if the
words were coming, Yeah, sure, I agree.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I feel like sometimes it's great if like catch the YouTube,
if the if the silence is too awkward on you know,
Spotify or Apple.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Like confusion, face, I have confusion.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
It quickly became clear that the story of Benjamin Jeffrey
Smith did not start on February nineteenth, twenty twenty two.
This was not an isolated act of violence, and there's
actually multiple acts of violence that I didn't even include
that have been talked about in some places, and I
(05:45):
just didn't find a ton of source material on it.
And I also just felt like, I don't know how
relevant it is, but suffice to say that he has
just been a kind of violent dude for minute.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, I'm shocked, I know, this guy who just
randomly got so violent so quickly for basically no reason.
It's weird. Weird how that doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Indeed, my notes say instead it was the culmination of
years of warning signs, red flags, and systemic failures. The
case moves slowly through Oregon's judicial system, but in April
twenty twenty three, Smith changed his plea to guilty or accurate.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, guilty, Yeah he did it. I'll be the one,
I assume. I mean, I trust all the yeah that
you're telling me.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
There's literally bodycam footage of him being the one doing it.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So that's kind of what I figured.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It's pretty compelling. He was sentenced to life in prison,
with the possibility of parole after fifty five years. Effectively,
this ensures that he will spend the rest of his
life behind bars.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I mean, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I'm okay with it. I've made my peace with it.
The judge also reserved fifty eight thousand dollars in restitution
for the victims through the States Crime Victims Compensation Fund,
which is not a lot of money for how many
people were shot.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was about to say, how many people, what's that again?
Question mark, my voice gets really high. I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
One of the most harrowing stories is that of Dag.
Shot in the neck. She was paralyzed from the neck down.
She survived only through intensive medical intervention and lived with
the constant support of ventilators and caregivers. Dag fought bravely. Friends, family,
(07:55):
and fellow activists described her as resilient, funny, and determined
to live even under impossible circumstances. Digg's injuries left her
unable to go more than an hour without the support
of others. Further complications were constant, repeated bouts of pneumonia,
(08:17):
additional hospitalizations, and the daily challenges of a truly life
changing injury. She had lost so much control, her mother said,
requesting that neither her name nor her daughter's name their
full names be used to protect their privacy. Dag reportedly
(08:38):
hosted a birthday party for herself, where she invited forty
of her family and friends. For the first time in
two and a half years, she was able to enjoy
her loved ones without a mask. There was no fear.
Her mother said, this was something that was her decision.
(08:59):
I could argue with her, but we miss her desperately.
In July of twenty twenty four, Dak made the decision
to be removed from life support. She passed away shortly
thereafter in her childhood home. Her death was officially ruled
a homicide directly linked to the injury she sustained in
(09:23):
the Normandale Park shooting. Clearly that meant the tragedy claimed
the second life, another devastating blow for Portland's activist community.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What was it just because she was having complication? Like
she had a complication, she.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Was permanently paralyzed from the neck down. She had just
suffered a lot in the short time since the shooting.
From the very beginning, the Portland Police Bureau mishandled the
public narrative of the Normandale Park shooting. I can't help
but notice that you don't look surprised.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm not. No, and
I don't. I'm not and I don't I'm not no doubt.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Their first press release described the incident as a confrontation
between an armed homeowner and armed protesters, and this description
was flatly inaccurate, but.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Makes it sound like they were like intruding on his home.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right and that's important because they don't outright say that,
but words matter.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, and your people are going to take away tone
that you may not even realize is is being implied.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I just like, what is what does him being a
homeowner have to do with anything about the situation.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Here's the funny thing. Next sentence, I sorry, I'm getting outrage. Nope,
you should be outraged. You should be because Ali who
also what shot multiple times, Ali perhaps said it best,
not only a smith, not a homeowner, which is pretty
(11:12):
small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. That's my statement.
She says, not only a smith, not a homeowner. We
were not armed. We were in a public space. We
were on a road next to a public park. We
never entered his personal space. We never threatened him, none
of us approached him. It was him acting towards us
(11:34):
and us defending ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Literally like, yeah, said it best.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And they absolutely one thousand percent have the footage in
real time to prove this.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
If he's not even a fucking homeowner, why why other
than to make that sound like how it sounds.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And maybe that was just confusion in the early reporting.
I want to believe that, Okay, cool, confusion fix it. Yeah, yep, yep.
Smith was not a homeowner. He was a tenant in
a nearby apartment, and aside from one volunteer guard who
(12:16):
returned fire, the demonstrators were not armed. Yeah, and I
think we can say that was some confidence because when
the authorities showed up at the scene, if there were
additional weapons, that would have been noted. Yeah, everyone's vehicles
would have been searched.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, they took what The one other person who did
have a gun, right, yep, hope was arrested. The rest
of that person arrested.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And charged with multiple felonies. Okay, yeah, so yeah, which
is fair. They have to, you know, act in a
certain level of caution. But if there were more weapons,
they would have known about it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Or wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
They can't have it both ways, like are you are
you not good at searching people's cars at a crime scene. Anyway,
they were neighbors, activists, and volunteers gathered to support a
community march. The framing by PPP did more than just misspeak.
(13:17):
It implied that those shot bore responsibility for their own injuries. Yeah,
and there's a very upsetting statement that was made by
Ted Wheeler I believe within just months of this shooting,
(13:40):
where he basically said that, you know, protesters were getting
out of control and people needed to kind of take.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Justice into their own hands. What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
What do you think I mean to the right or
the wrong person? Those mean very different things. But I
remember watching the Forensic Architecture documentary and Deja said, I
remember watching that and thinking he's going to get somebody
killed for her. It was like, he's going to get
(14:13):
one of my friends killed. Seriously, for survivors and families,
this felt like salt in the wound. June, t Rex
Knightley was memorialized as a generous, joyful figure in Portland's
activist community. Daig and the others who were injured were
(14:34):
left to fight for their lives to see them described
as though they were the aggressors, while Smith's role was
softened into that of a supposedly embattled homeowner. Absolutely infuriating.
Forensic Architecture's reconstruction and eyewitness testimony helped community activists who
(14:56):
immediately pushed back on this framing. Journalists and survivors alike
pointed out that the bureau's language played into a long
history of law enforcement minimizing or misrepresenting far right violence
while painting racial justice activists in a negative light. It
(15:18):
took nearly three years for Portland police leadership to acknowledge
this misrepresentation.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And how much damage was done in that three years
because of people who thought that.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
In January twenty twenty five, Chief Bob Day issued a
formal apology, admitting that the bureau's early statements about Normandale
Park had been wrong and harmful. Day said press releases
issued in the hours after the February shooting in Northeast
(15:54):
Portland had described the victim as armed protesters, when in
fact they were unarmed traffic safety volunteers known as corkers.
Words matter, and I'm glad the statement was issued, but
it feels like a couple years late and therefore a
few bucks short.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Sorry, But yeah, they weren't even the demonstrators, the protesters
they were once protecting them.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
They were people trying to help direct traffic safely, help
people that are protesting peacefully, as is their literal constitutional
right do so safely. But by then the damage was
already done.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Called it who could have called it? Psychat? Cassie over here.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, survivors and activists said the apology felt perfunctory and
far too late. Trust had already eroded, and the community
felt re traumatized by the delay. In the eyes of many,
the apology read as a bureaucratic necessity rather than a
genuine reckoning with harm caused. Perhaps the most devastating revelations
(17:11):
after the shooting were not just about what happened in
Normandale Park, but about what had been known about Benjamin
Jeffrey Smith long before February twenty twenty two. Smith was
not an unknown figure to law enforcement. Beginning as early
as two thousand and six, tips were filed with the
(17:33):
FBI about his violent rhetoric and extremistbehavior online. Over the years,
multiple reports painted a picture of someone steeped in far
right ideology, expressing violent fantasies and making threats. By twenty
twenty one, Smith had attracted enough concern that FBI agents
(17:53):
actually interviewed him as a part of a threat assessment.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Wow, they didn't. They didn't get him.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
They found him troubling, but concluded that he did not
meet the threshold for continued investigation.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I'm curious what that threshold is and like how close
to it he was it's tough.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I mean it's tough because until you actually hurt someone, right.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Like, I don't think you should treat people like they're
going to Yeah, really it cause a crime or tough,
it's really tough.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. The FBI's standard is that there must be clear
evidence of an eminent threat, an eminent federal crime, or
national security threat. Okay, because Smith was only making general
threats online without a specific plot, they closed the inquiry.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
You can't fucking arrest every troll, right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, but it wasn't just strangers or internet users raising alarms.
Though Smith's own cousin called Portland's non emergency line and
twenty twenty one to report that Smith had made death threats,
and though it's unclear why that tip went nowhere. Though
(19:10):
it is clear that multiple red flags existed, the public
record does not definitively show what became of the cousin's call,
or whether law enforcement locally pursued it aggressively. Jurisdictional questions
and delays seem to have played a role, but the
exact path from report to response remains murky, which is
(19:35):
a polite way of saying, who the fuck knows?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I mean, that makes sense, for something that seems to
not have gone anywhere that they wouldn't track. Yeah, how
it got to get nowhere?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Some reporting that I saw indicates that the PPB transferred
that report to Indiana police because that's where he had
previously been living, which I don't know. I don't know,
that's just something I read.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's not unlike police bullshit that we've
heard about so many times.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I can't substantiate that I could have happened good,
Sure could.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Doesn't even feel unlikely. But the result is what security
experts call the known wolf problem.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
These are not people who appear out of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
They are people well documented by law enforcement, but who
nevertheless go on to commit horrific acts of violence. In
Smith's case, he was a known wolf for more than
a decade, yet because he never quite tripped the narrow
thresholds for federal action, he was allowed to slip through
the cracks. The FBI argues that civil liberties and constitutional
(20:57):
protections limit how far they can go in monitoring someone
like Smith without clear evidence of crime, which may hold
a grain of truth under a previous administration.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Why is making threats not a crime?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah? I mean, in certain instances it is. If they're
vague enough, it's not. I feel like any sort of
threat that's a threat. If you're making any kind of threat,
I feel like that should be just a crime. It's
hard to prosecute if there's not a specifically identifiable victim
or potential victim.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Can't I mean give a ticket something something, I mean speed,
I get a ticket, But someone who threatens people online
doesn't get a ticket. It's hard. It's hard. I'm not
saying it makes sense, Caitlin, Fixed are just a system
right now.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
But for Portland's activist community, and for the families of June,
Nightly and Day, this explanation likely rings hollow.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It's difficult to fathom.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
How someone could honestly have been repeatedly reported, interviewed by
the FBI as an official threat assessment, and flagged by
his own family, and yet still managed to carry out
such a violent attack. The answer lies in how American
(22:28):
law enforcement and intelligence agencies historically prioritize threats. Many experts
argue that American law enforcement and intelligence agencies have historically
been slower to respond to far right threats than other
forms of extremism, especially in cases where warning signs were vague,
(22:50):
or the threats presented themselves online, or they were what
In some instances, people making these warnings say they felt
those reports were treated as nuisances rather than urgent red flags.
For the survivors of Normandale Park, this is more than
(23:12):
an academic point. It is a matter of life and
death and a matter of trust. And when law enforcement
compounds the harm by misrepresenting what happened as PPB did,
trust erodes even further. This case is another haunting example
of a man known for his rage and extremism, reported
(23:36):
again and again, and yet still managed to kill and
name his neighbors. It leaves the community asking not just
how this was allowed to happen, but whether those tasked
with preventing such violence ever truly took the threat seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Clearly not, And.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Because I realized that, you know, in order to live
in a country where we have rights, there are going
to be restrictions and you're not going to be able
to stop every crime. That's not what anyone, I think,
in their right mind would set out to do. But
(24:20):
it seems like we got a lot of white guys
with guns slipping through the cracks weird.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Anybody want to take a look at that? I think
something was going on here.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
As Part two of this story draws to a close,
the violent acts of one man continue to cause a
lingering ripple effect. Smith was no mystery. He was someone
the FBI had interviewed, someone family had reported, someone whose
rhetoric was public and extreme and hateful, and yet when
(24:57):
it mattered, he was treated as just another angry voice.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
On the Internet.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
He will be known for his fiendish rage and bigotry
if it's the last goddamn thing I do.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
His victims were and.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Are, people that cared about others, their community, equity, and justice,
and they themselves were traumatized by not only that evil man,
but also revictimized by the very same insensitive system they
hoped could be.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Changed for the better.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
For Portland's activist community, the Normandale Park shooting is remembered
not only for the lives lost and forever changed, but
also for how law enforcement institutions failed them twice, first
by not heeding warnings about Smith and then by misrepresenting
what happened on February nineteenth, twenty two. And yet, in
(26:01):
the wake of unimaginable tragedy and violence, there is resilience.
June t Rex Knightley is remembered for her kindness and
commitment to keeping others safe. Day is remembered for her
humor and bravery. Even the face of paralysis, survivors continue
(26:27):
to tell the truth of what happened, refusing to allow
ppb's early narrative to define the tragedy. And this is
the tension at the heart of so many stories that
we tell on this show. It's the cruelty of violence
(26:47):
set against the persistence of community. For every systemic failure,
there are people that step up and they take care
of other people. They care for one another. For every misrepresentation,
there are witnesses and survivors insisting on accuracy. What happened
(27:13):
at Normandale Park is irreversible. Lives were stolen and futures reshaped.
But the story doesn't end there. It lives on in
the memory of the community that refuses to let silence
or misrepresentation erase the truth. To honor them means not
(27:40):
just telling the story, but insisting that it be heard fully, clearly,
and without distortion, like you're doing hopefully, Yeah, I mean
trying to Yes, yeah, you are. I mean, as I
understand the facts, but it's just it's crazy to me,
(28:05):
like how many people have just still like just don't know,
and like they remember the story that they heard, you
know a few years ago about how these protesters shot
a homeowner what you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
However, it goes like that's what they're going to.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Remember and that's very much part of the narrative about
how oh antifa is taking over Portland. And this is
why I had people in La texting me asking me like,
are you okay?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
You can come stay with me? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
A lot of people, a lot of people here, Yeah,
And it was, you know, it was a scary time,
Like you don't you don't exactly know what's going on
all the time, but yeah, like it's just so dangerous
to I think, just misinformation like steer people away from
protesting too, Like that's yeah, extremely important, Like why do
(29:00):
you want I feel like not do that right now
in particular? Yeah, And I don't think that. When I
started working on this case, I realized fully the broader
implications of so much of it to what's happening in
(29:21):
such a big, dramatic and scary, scary way right now,
and it just seems to get scarier every day, and
it's hard to know how anything that you say will
maybe tie into something that's going to happen a week
from now, because who fucking knows.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It's I don't say that like not where's the wood?
Can we knock in the wood? No?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I mean it's it's like it's a kangaroo court where
I mean, people are making it up as they go,
and yeah, it's scary times. It's scary times. And this happened,
you know, just a couple of years ago, but it
been a couple of years ago, and the apology was
(30:03):
this year, less than nine months ago.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
The apology was issued. Like, think about something that could
be happening right now, like protests that could be happening
right now, where the same thing happens. Yep, And then
you're thinking that the wrong side was the one, you
know what I mean? Yep, you're thinking that the right
people are on the wrong side. Yeah, for three years,
how everybody is and for some people that perception is
(30:30):
just never going to be corrected. Yeah. I say it
all the time, but words matter.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I'm not here certainly not advocating for censorship, but.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Fuck, it's obviously we would know.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's I feel so stupid for saying we're not advocating
for censorship.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I mean, but you're saying words matter, like we don't.
We don't want you to not like have option to
say certain words or you know, just say the words
in the right way. I just I just.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Feel like right now, sometimes I have to say things
that feel like to me they're obvious, and sometimes I
have to say things because I just I mean, I
don't know. I just I hate to be over the top,
but I just I feel like sometimes I'm like, what
if I don't have the chance to say this later.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I don't know like how people are going to
take things, because we know, like there's people on the
other side of us who are also terrified and scared
about how their world is going to and so they
can look at us and what we're saying and be like,
see they want censorship, and yeah, so you know that's
where we're coming from.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I think, Yeah, the world is scary, and I would
like to take a nap.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Everyone's scared of each other, and you know what, we
all should just take a nap together. And then I
think like a universal nap time would do us haul
a lot? Can we all just take a nap? Siesta?
Fucking genius? Just hello, God, there's a culture that got
it right.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I was just thinking, I'm like, I don't know if
everything else in that country is fucked, but they got
that right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That seems good to me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm not a great napper. I'm not great at it.
Just rest, just rest, just rest.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
But also if I was raised from birth taking naps,
and that was like the culture, Yeah, maybe I don't
know a bit of a tangent.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
You're not a napper. Maybe you know, have a little
afternoon delight, oh by yourself? Or who.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Shame me up? Okay, I have a whiny dog over here.
She is like, cannot get herself back up into.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, let's go to Taro, Go to Taro.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, let's do it. When I was shuffling, I was
seeing a ton of swords.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Okay, so we got the nine of Swords in reverse,
and it's a woman of color sitting on a bed,
crying with her hands in her face. Yeah, her hands
in her face, her head in her hands. Yeah yeah,
her head in her hands. Did I say that right?
Did I say that? A woman of color? Is that
what they Yeah, Okay, I'm like, I don't know, I
(33:26):
say things wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Like honestly, I feel like it's important to pay attention
to you will prefer like what.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
A black person, But I don't exactly know.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Not every nationality feels the same about it, And I
think it's important to pay attention to, like what the
right nomenclature is. But I think that the vast majority
of people are not mad if you get it wrong. Yeah,
so long as you're willing to accept, you know, criticism
about because I know that words matter, right exactly exactly,
(33:59):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I don't want to say anything that's going to hurt
anybody's feelings, that's all.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So, oh, and we mentioned that they were so they're
wearing a beanie and I had said that you mentioned
someone who said they got shot in the head and
you can see like a hole in their beatie. Yes,
did they actually get shot in the header? Did they
get shot in the beanie? No?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
They were they they were shot? Who Okay, I was like,
who who was.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Did they die? No?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Okay, no, because technically that wasn't June you were talking. No, No,
June was shot at close range and she was dead
almost immediately, Okay, and then Dake was the other casualty,
and that happened roughly two years later.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
So wow.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But yeah, obviously like numerous people were shot and injured.
You know, It's funny because I talked about how the
the demonstrators, the people that were actually marching versus the
organizer group, they were on opposite ends of the park,
And I can't help but think that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
If this had happened on the other end of the.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Park, like how much larger of a victim pool there
potentially was. That is very true, which is I mean
just horrific that you think about those type of calculations
when it comes to you know, gun violence.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, but I mean, yeah, the more people in one area,
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Like a small space, and I mean granted it's outdoors,
but like can't outrun a bullet, Okay, flash. So nine
of sorts and we drew this in the reverse, right,
Yes we did. Our keywords are despair, isolation, sadness, fear, grief,
(36:12):
and shame.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Shame.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
The Nine of Swords shows extreme anxiety, nightmares, tension, unhappiness,
regrets over past mistakes or misfortunes. In many decks. This
card shows a person weeping while nine great swords loom
above him or her. In the writer Smith's deck, a
(36:40):
woman sits up in bed as if waking from a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Y PTSD. Seriously, Yeah, I was thinking about what all
the people who went through after or what what the
people went through after like and then you know, having
the stories come out about them that were wrong and
having the wrong perception about them. That's like a nightmare.
And like how many of those swords do you have
(37:07):
to take? Okay?
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Because this suit represents mental activity, much of your suffering,
maybe in your own mind. There's an extra excerpt. Too
many of us are not living our dreams because we
are living our fears.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well, I mean a lot of us don't have a
chance but to live our fears. Yeah, that's that's like
the one thing about this card I don't I think
in some situations that can apply, but I don't think
in a lot of them. Like you know that it's
all in your head thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
No, And I think that I think the takeaway is
maybe not so much that it's all in your head.
I think that it has to do with kind of
a mental and emotional anguish. Yeah. Again, in this case,
I think that really applies.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Like you kind of can't escape being in your.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Head, even if you weren't physically or directly impacted by
the actual violence of the shooting. The toll that that
takes on you mentally. Nine signify completion, and the reverse
nine can point to the end of a crisis or
(38:22):
a period of despair. You may have determined the root
cause of your misery and are ready to deal with it. Oh,
I just that makes me think of Deg. Perhaps you've
stopped feeling sorry for yourself and are willing to make
the changes necessary to repair the damage and move on.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Oh that kind of reminds me though, the police apologizing
years and years later.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But that I mean, honestly, that still makes me think
of Deg. I feel like she was ready to move on,
like in it for sure, but like just kind of
the way you put it, like make your apologies and
move on.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's kind of.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, that's true. I can understand that. Yeah, very different
sides of the same old point. In some cases, this
card may indicate getting professional help with the problem, if only,
if only.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
That's maybe what some people should have done. Yeah, to
begin with.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
In a reading about money, this card can mean, you
see where you made mistakes and begin the process of rebuilding.
After a loss, it may be difficult to pull yourself
out of your problems, but the reverse nine suggest the
worst is over.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Don't give up they did, you know, rebuild and go
back to Yeah, we're testing.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And I don't think that there was ever because this
technically didn't go to trial in the way that traditionally
most of us think about it. There wasn't really a trial.
It was like he pled guilty. There's not really like
trial footage to go back to, like I mean, I
(40:15):
think back to like the Nancy Brophy case, and we
literally were able to see footage of the.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Trial day to day.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
One thing that I didn't choose to include in either
Part one or Part two was that at court, Smith's
lawyer basically said that, you know, he chose not to
make a statement in court, which is something that was
his right to and it's an opportunity in these situations
(40:49):
to sort of express remorse. And kind of the explanation
was that he, in hindsight, just felt so abominable and
just couldn't bring himself to to speak in court. And yeah,
I mean it certainly elicits an eye roll from me.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
But if I mean, I wouldn't want to speak in
court either if I had done that.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So yeah, and you'd like to think that it was
truly out of some form of remorse source and care.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, I mean that feels probably far more likely.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
If the reading is about your job, you may have
suffered as a result of someone else's jealousy, criticism, or nastiness. However,
this card encourages you to stand up for yourself and
stop wallowing in fear or self pity. It may also
recommend changing jobs.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That just yeah, that just reminds me too of the
protesters and how they were portrayed and kind of get
up and keep going and don't get a different job.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
But like I had ros, don't get a different job.
Keep protesting reminds me of PPP. Yeah personally, but yeah,
they should get a different job. I don't know, I
don't know. In a reading about love, you may be
examining a relationship deeply to decide if it's worth staying
(42:16):
or if you'd be better off leaving. Sometimes being alone
is preferable to remaining in an unhappy situation. Make that
the truth, Yeah, be honest. You may have deceived yourself
for a while.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Huh. This makes me think of his previous roommate. She's
the one that.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Shared a lot about his developing political and other ideologies
about Like, I was scared of him. He suddenly was
like a conspiracy theorist and he was anti mask And.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Was that his cousin or was that a different that's a.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Different person that also was afraid of him and felt scared. Yeah, no,
he threatened his cousin. The roommate was just somebody who
had to deal with his day to day craziness.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
What was his job?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
You know, if I came across it in my research,
I don't recall, to be honest, I'm just curious. Yeah,
I don't know. That is I find that interesting to
know kind of the.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
What did you do? What did you get up to
day to day? Do get up to? Were do you
know these crazy Were you just online? Were you just
chronically online? Just chronically online? You were from home? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I mean a lot of people did back then. Maybe
he got laid off and that's why he was man.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Who knows? Again, I say, just shoot yourself. I mean
maybe just maybe just do that.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
There's an extra excerpt. Okay, I'm ready for it. There
are very few monsters who weren't the fear we have of.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
When they call him a known wolf.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
And I feel like outside of a situation where he
has the advantage of surprise and he has a weapon
and those around him are unarmed, I don't he was
a monster. Yeah, he was a monster, but I think that,
you know, it's like he created that situation. Yeah, And
(44:29):
I just feel like he's somebody that I don't think
anybody would have felt like they had.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Any reason to fear him. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Maybe maybe that speaks to, in a way, sort of
evaluating who we think we should fear and why and.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, again, what's that threshold and why was he hander it?
That's like that's what I want to know, Like, what
was he doing? We need to lower the bar a
little bit. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
It's I mean, again, it's hard, and we don't want censorship. Yeah,
it really gets hard though, because unfortunately, as horrific as
some of the things that I know that he has
like publicly said are, it's not specifically threatening an individual
(45:19):
or even targeting a specific group. So it's really it's
really hard from a legal standpoint. That being said, I think.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Maybe maybe we spend a little time.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
No, I'm a guy, I don't know. Hatch them like
an egg.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I'm not I'm not an expert. But throw a tracker
on that, bitch.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm just kidding. Have aday. We'll see you next Tuesday.
Unless you're a furry and a murderer, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Then see a never loser A.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Welcome for he's always welcome. I want to shirt that
say that for he's always alcome. I want, you know,
the pants with the words across the butt juicy free's always.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Cut that up like that might controversial stamped across your
I know I'm not a best reality, don't worry. Despite
having reviewed the footage, an early statement issued by Portland's
Beleef Cheese Beleef Cheese, the Police Cheese.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Beleef Cheese. That might be the takeout cheese. Oh my god,
it's only seven o five pm. It's not we can't
even say it's so late noat okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Only I want to be home before midnight.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Okay, how long does this feel?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Though?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
It's only been ten minutes and last time it took
nine minutes to even start. I feel like we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
We're doing great, okay perspective, see what Okay, I'm gonna scroll.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I'm here for us, yeah, bak glob
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