September 23, 2025 • 39 mins
If you live in the Pacific Northwest, you probably remember the headlines: a night of activism in Portland’s Normandale Park ended in gunfire. On February 19, 2022, the Normandale Park shooting shocked Portland and the nation. Benjamin Jeffrey Smith opened fire on racial justice demonstrators, killing June “T-Rex” Knightly and leaving another known as Deg, gravely injured. In this episode, we take you through the timeline of events that night, the background of the man responsible, and the grassroots work of organizers who were there to keep people safe.
Portland has seen its share of protest, resilience, and tragedy but this isn’t just a crime story — it’s a story about neighbors, about people stepping up when institutions fall short, and about how tragedy can strike even in spaces meant to protect and empower.
From Forensic Architecture’s powerful reconstructions to the behind-the-scenes support teams who show up for Portland’s movements, Part 1 unpacks the early pieces of a story that continues to haunt the city. This is not just about a shooting — it’s about the systems, tensions, and resilience that defined that night – but not the community.
Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us atpnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources
Portland has seen its share of protest, resilience, and tragedy but this isn’t just a crime story — it’s a story about neighbors, about people stepping up when institutions fall short, and about how tragedy can strike even in spaces meant to protect and empower.
From Forensic Architecture’s powerful reconstructions to the behind-the-scenes support teams who show up for Portland’s movements, Part 1 unpacks the early pieces of a story that continues to haunt the city. This is not just about a shooting — it’s about the systems, tensions, and resilience that defined that night – but not the community.
Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us atpnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Daja reflected that it seemed like he was trying to
manufacture a stand your ground type scenario.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I was gonna say, I've been thinking it just seems
like he just wants he just wants something bad to happen.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
With statements like make me and let's do this.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They're saying no, let's not do this.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Literally, she said it. Really, it just felt to me
like he was a bomb. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi,
creepy people.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Hello, Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
This is PNW Hans and Homicides where we chat about
true crime, the paranormal and all things spooky in the
Pacific Northwest or the PNW.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It nasty, and we do terror reading at the end
of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.
That's the thing. I said that really fast. It kind
of sounded like I said, terror terror reading. For terror reading,
we do terror cards. We do witchcraft here if you
don't like it, scadetto boy. We also slip into English
(01:20):
accents that are probably terrible, but we can't help it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Sometimes I think that we get a little bit confused
because there are so many parts of the world that
speak with some iteration of a British accent. Yes, you know,
and we're not making fun, we're appreciating. No, we love it.
So anyway, any who's all? Benjamin Jeffrey Smith was born
(01:45):
on November twenty eighth, nineteen seventy eight in Concord, Massachusetts,
and grew up in Indiana before relocating to Portland, Oregon
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Ah, was he nasty?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah? Mm hmm, yeah, it's pretty nasty. Around that same
time is when he began getting involved in the furry community.
Hold up, what Yeah, I wouldn't get excited about it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I want a furry episode. I mean, this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh, I mean we're only going to talk about it
for like five seconds. Man, I got so invested, Okay,
I know, adopting the persona of a small male bunny
and the nickname Polly Bunn or Polyhead. According to a
tweet posted by Drake dus Sheep, the alias Polly Bunn
(02:43):
was one of the original founders of the hashtag baby
fur irc channel on furnt Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Oh if I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It's a whole string of words that didn't mean a
lot to me at the start of this. Had to
had to do a little bit of digging I would imagine. So, yeah,
I don't know what any of that means, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
As a gay man and practicing furry, he's probably one
of the last guys you'd expect to get red pilled.
(03:16):
But from there it's a pretty predictable tale of misogyny
and hate in the most heinous forms. He also filled
down the rabbit hole of COVID conspiracy theories and became
staunchly anti mask.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Wait did you do that on purpose?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I fell down the rabbit hole because he dressed like
a bunny?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh? I didn't. I think rabbit hole is just like, yes,
it's just it's so it's so extremely associated with this case.
I feel like in ways that aren't going to be
clear at this point other than the obvious.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But that's pretty funny though. Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Throughout Lockdown, he was chronically online complaining about the Black
Lives Matter movement and Antifa and spewing anti Semitic rants.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Hmm my favorite.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
He was enraged by protests in the city of Portland.
According to a former roommate, he believed that extreme violence,
rather than peaceful protest, was the only way of making
oneself heard. He hated protests about racial violence and injustice
in particular. Why remember how we talked about the red pill.
(04:35):
The city of Portland made headlines all over the country
for a number of them that took place during the pandemic,
and you may have heard the city being mentioned again
recently by the Cheeto and Chief.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh I hadn't heard.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's a lawless place, yes, So let's talk about public
demonstrations dissentarticularly those aimed at peaceful community action. Corking is
the practice of protecting marchers from traffic by placing one's car, bike,
or body to create a physical barrier near intersections and
(05:15):
cross streets. Okay, I was able to observe several minutes
of footage with detailed explanations of how the practice is
designed to keep the community moving safely. Corking, it's important
to note, is a volunteer action for protecting those participating
in peaceful protests or demonstrations. Both words are used kind
(05:38):
of interchangeably in some context. I feel like it can
be helpful to say demonstration as opposed to protests, because
the connotation just can be very different. Right, Yeah, but
I digress. The term should not be confused with kettling.
A police crowd control tactic where officers surround and contain
(06:02):
a group of demonstrators. That brings us to my new
hyper focus and obsession, forensic Architecture, And I promise there's
a good reason I'm talking about it, because I'm going
to talk about it for a minute. And you might
think that I've gone insane, and you're not entirely wrong,
but I do have a good reason.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Just you just felled on a rabbit hole. Hap me out.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It's a rabbit hole thing. Forensic Architecture is a research
agency based at Goldsmith's University of London that investigates human
rights violations using architectural and media analysis. The organization has
received awards like the Right Livelihood Award otherwise known as
(06:46):
the Alternative Nobel Prize, and a Peabody Award for co
creating an entire new academic field and emergent media practice.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
That sounds super impressive.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It pretty much is. Their apartment smells of rich mahogany
and many leather bound books.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I like the Alternative Nobel Peace Prize right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Their work has even been admitted as evidence in legal
processes in various jurisdictions, including the US, UK and other
parts of Europe as well as Israel and South America.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Wow. Yeah, they've got a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of really interesting stuff coming out of Israel and Ukraine
right now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So I bet yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Really really highly suggest obviously for the purposes of time
management and adulting. I've only been able to dive into
so many of their different resources, but really really highly
recommend if you're interested in checking it out that you do.
(08:02):
They're basically a badass globe trotting organization that uses digital
three D modeling for human rights investigation and documentary purposes.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Oohoo, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, you know when you see those shitty three D
model reenactments in I mean all kinds of documentaries, you know,
these are not that they are impressive, and I was
pretty fucking excited.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
As an organization operating in a highly sensitive area, they
have faced criticisms regarding their methodologies and potential bias, particularly
in context of political conflicts, and I think that's fair.
We should examine organizations in these types of spaces critically.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Though in this case such criticism has largely come from
NGO Monitor, which has itself been criticized by academic figures
diplomats and journalists, for allowing its research and conclusions to
be driven by politics, for not examining far right NGOs,
which is a string of words that you shouldn't they don't.
(09:25):
I didn't like it, Nope, And for spreading misinformation. NGO
Monitor is a Jerusalem based organization that promotes largely pro
Israel viewpoints. The leader of the organization has ties to
the Israeli government, having served as a consultant. Curiously, this
(09:46):
and other similar information has been omitted from his official
profiles that are published in English, of course, and I'm
done obsessing over I had to really look into this
because I was like, for forensic architecture is so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
That is really cool, But I.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Need to know, like what is like the legitimacy of this,
because the last thing that I want to do is
think that I've come across something that is shining a
light and it's really just like, you know, shitting into
a I don't know, I don't know. No, I don't
even know a three D model. Yeah, should he into
(10:26):
a three D model? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. But I'm providing
so much context on the background of the organization and
maybe it's overkilled, but it's because I think not only
is what forensic architecture doing really remarkable, but their resources
were so helpful. It was invaluable to me. Oh nice
(10:51):
in the research for this case. Everything that I'm going
to talk about, they did a three D rendering of
and or they have actual footage and that's a lot
of what that documentary piece is based on. They have
(11:12):
like actual like you can describe it like bodycam footage.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Oh okay, yeah, I'm interested to see, like what what
is this because like I don't exactly know what this
is yet.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I want to see like how how how is it used?
I really I think I would really like actually for
the two of us to like watch a portion of it, okay,
and you're going to already know the case, so we
don't even have to watch the whole thing. Although it's
only like I think thirty six minutes. I only say
(11:48):
watch part of it because it's not an easy watch
because of the bodycam footage and it's they've they've done
really well to kind of clip in places where where
it's like based on what's occurring. It's graphic and it's violent,
but it's not gratuitous. It's all done very clearly, to
(12:09):
make the details clear and to drive home certain points.
But it's all done in a way that it's it's not,
like I said, gratuitous. But yeah, the further you get
into it, the harder it gets to watch.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah. On the evening of February nineteenth, twenty twenty two,
there was a demonstration scheduled to take place starting off
at Normandale Park in Portland. That evening, a group of
support workers were gathered on the west side of the
park in preparation for a Black Lives Matter march. They
were helping to coordinate. The demonstrators were marching in recognition
(12:46):
of the deaths of a mere Lock of Minnesota and
Patrick Kimmons from Portland, Oregon. A mere Lock was a
twenty two year old black man who was shot and
killed by a Minneapolis police officer executing a no knock warrant,
though a mirror was not the subject of or named
(13:06):
in the warrant. Okay, they no longer do that type
of warrant in UH Minnesota anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I can't imagine why.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, on face value, you can understand the benefit of
executing a warrant and like not letting that person. It's
like when police show up at a scene without sirens. Okay,
you have like a tactical advantage there, but like once
you breach you know, a dwelling or other building, that person,
(13:42):
for all they know, they are literally having to take
their own like life, their own self defense into their hands.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I was gonna say, that just seems like a good
way to get shot.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And unfortunately it has that that has
proven to be.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
The case over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Actually, Patrick Kimmins was a twenty seven year old black
man killed by Portland police during a twenty eighteen altercation.
The circumstances of that shooting have at times been hotly
debated as part of an intense discourse about policing and
racial injustice. Forensic Architecture used a three D model of
(14:21):
the Normandale Park and surrounding neighborhood to illustrate the events
of that day. Their models are intended to be measurable
by the millimeter. WHOA, So I'm just going to jump
into a series of events and introduce the people involved
based on the timeline of the night.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, I'm gonna get cozy here, Okay, get co say,
not because I'm like comfortable with what's happening, but because, yeah,
because I need to uh get I need to be comforted.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yes, I'm not comfortable. I need comforted.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I need comforting. Yeah, no, that's fair. Pilton arrived at
seven pm at Normandale Park, followed by Desia, who got
there at approximately seven fifteen, and the crowd really hadn't
begun to gather yet. By seven twenty four. Another corker
(15:18):
named Dag arrived and parked next to June's car.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
The protective people.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, so for concret Yeah, I mean, I'm sure in
some contexts that kettling can serve a purpose, but I
just felt like, in the context of this case, it's
important that we create distinctions between certain groups. So for context,
(15:48):
all of these kind of support workers related to the demonstration.
They were on the opposite end of the park from
where all of the marchers were going to be. Okay,
because typically you have like your corkers, they're kind of
a big part of like the support team. They're kind
of on the back end.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Okay, that makes sense, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Because they're what they're trying to avoid is what has
happened in some of like the worst viral videos about
protests where people just come up behind a group that's
marching and just plow through them.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That type of thing. Yeah, I hate that.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Daike's arrival was shortly followed by another fellow corker, Hank
at seven twenty eight, who was among the last of
the group to arrive and park next to June's vehicle
on the opposite side. I just thought it was really funny.
Hank was like, I was like one of the last
show up because I'm always late.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Sounds like us.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah. By seven thirty one PM, a crowd was gathered
on the opposite side of the park for the march,
scheduled to begin at eight pm. Smith, who we introduced
as at the very Top, first approached the group of
quarkers at around seven thirty one pm. He asked a
strange question, how long are you going to be here?
(17:12):
He wanted to confirm the itinerary, presumably which when he
was informed that the march was scheduled to begin at eight,
he checked the time and walked away from the group. Cass,
a street medic amongst the group, said their pre meet
for the march was at around seven forty pm. Hope,
a volunteer armed guard, said he wasn't aware of anyone
(17:34):
else on the organizer team that was openly carrying that night.
Hope said they were specifically wearing a badge indicating their
role as another street medic, so openly carrying in the
sense that they were in no way openly carrying and
their duties were clearly designated as a medic.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
At the pre meet, Desa informed the group of a
change in their route taking them past unhoused neighbors. And
I love this nomenclature because why can't we use language
to lead with love neighbors? Neighbors?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean they are, Yeah, We're all neighbors, whether
you like it or not.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, I mean their intention was to keep things relatively
quiet in the neighborhood. Right as the group was embarking
on the march, Desa and Pilton shared a heartfelt moment.
This was just such a close community of people. Todd
and Hank were talking as they were preparing to leave,
(18:46):
and that's when they saw someone standing by a street
light that was out. That's creepy, like super ominous, the
single creepiest visual that I can summon. At the moment. Yeah,
the man appear unhappy about their presence. The group on
the opposite end of the park was alerted by organizers
(19:06):
that the march was beginning. Hope stowed their weapon in
the trunk of their vehicle as they began hearing raised voices. Yeah,
enter an angry, swearing caveman, who was informed that the
group was leaving, the organizers leading with attempts to de
escalate any brewing situation. So they're like, we're dude, we're leaving.
(19:30):
We're out of here, like it's all good, he responded.
If I ever see you again, I'm going to shoot
you in the head. Jus Deja reflected with the forensic
architecture team that she shared with June's wife, she knew
(19:50):
basically immediately this was not an individual that could be
de escalated. That individual was Benjamin Jeffs free Smith. She
began recording after about twenty to thirty seconds of the situation,
seemingly beginning to quickly escalate.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Okay, that good idea, right, like, yeah, get that shit recorded.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Absolutely absolutely, and I think normally once they actually take
off on the march, she typically did just run her camera.
Oh okay, yeah, so she was prepared, okay. The forensic
architecture piece then shows some of the footage she captured
that evening, beginning at seven point fifty seven pm. Smith
(20:39):
then begins to exhibit more physical force in the conflict,
beginning by aggressively approaching one of the organizers and then
fully charging at them. Geez, he has warned off, that's
assault and I don't want to fight with you. Just
go home. Remember that he's already been informed that they
(21:02):
are leaving, and the organizers already beginning to posture to
file out as they were literally scheduled to do. Deja
reflected that it seemed like he was trying to manufacture
a stand your ground type scenario.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was going to say, I've been thinking it just
seems like he just wants he just wants something bad
to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
With statements like make me and let's do this. They're
saying no, let's not do this. Yeah, literally, she said
it really it just felt to me like he was
a bomb. She called save walkie talkies. She called we
need de escalation on the corner of the park immediately
(21:48):
where the cars are parked. Immediately other organizers were approaching
from the opposite side of the park in response. It
was almost immediately after that that he brandished the web
and quickly firing multiple shots on the group at close range.
Calls went out to others in the group. Gunshots, gunshots, gunshots.
(22:10):
It was at seven fifty eight that Desia called for
de escalation. Then within a matter of seconds, he fired
several shots, and in the interim, June had stepped up
to him. She was probably one of the oldest in
(22:32):
the group, and she had physically put herself between him
and several others and just was like, this is done.
You need to just go home. The guard within the
organizers was able to return fire within seven seconds of
(22:54):
the gunman's initial shot. So remember this is he's literally
put his weapon in the trunk of his vehicle. At
this point, I'm through twenty three minutes of just under
thirty seven minutes in total. That have been a very
difficult watch. The guard Hope fires twice in response. The
(23:20):
shots of the two weapons were indistinguishable to those present
at northeast fifty fifth and Hasselo Street at the southwest
corner of Normandale Park that night. Smith responded to the
armed guard Hope when questioned about the whereabouts of his
gun in the aftermath, pointing toward his left angle as
he lay on the ground, and stated, it's right there,
(23:42):
but I wish I still had it so that I
could put it in my mouth.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You should have done that first.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That would have been super a lot better for a
lot of people. Hope ensured that the weapon was removed
from his immediate access. Cass quickly began rendering aid. Today
and Pike, another medic who stated he'd been shot in
the head. She was shocked to realize when she looked
(24:09):
up that there was a hole in his beanie, and
she thought to herself, so you have. And obviously that
poor medic was bleeding pretty profusely. When police arrived at
the scene, the mood was very tense. Understandably, I think
it was a Black Lives Matter protest. Yeah, the street
(24:33):
medic Cass spoke with officers stating, I'm an EMT. Six
people have been shot. Can I go back to treating
my patients. Video footage of Deja screaming at the officers
that they needed help. This is the part that I
started really ugly crying. It's pretty heart wrenching. That was
(24:55):
at about eight ten pm. Cass was given the go
ahead to continue trying to administer aid to the injured.
Officers approached Ali, who had been shot multiple times, asking
questions as she sat, likely in shock in every sense
of the word, still seated in her vehicle. Cast told
(25:17):
officers she's been shot four times. You don't need to
interview her right now. She needs medical attention. And it's
not uncommon for them to try to interview up until
the point that EMS arrives and they're just trying to
get as much information as they can. Yeah, that's understandable
to a point, but when you see it from the
(25:38):
other side, of course, it feels very dispassionate.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Especially when someone's been shot that many times, like they're hurting.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Or you know like yeah yeah, yeah, like my mind
isn't even working. I'm just frustrated right now. Yeah, I mean,
just the idea of the situation is enough to kind
of make you just go like non verbal and just.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Like like like you just need to comfort somebody in
that state, like not like maybe sit there and talk
to them, maybe not just like bombard them with questions.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, it's it's tough because you got to thread the needle, right,
I mean, especially someone that's been shot multiple times. You're like, well,
we want to get the information so that we can
find a person that did this.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
In case they passed.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, I mean, and that's that's an awful thought in
that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well, I just feel like there's some way for training
to happen to where like these things can be possible
for like sensitivity and getting information. Like you don't think
there's some sort of way. Maybe maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I'm not a professional.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, whatever, Yeah, there's a lot of whatever. The first
ambulance arrived at eight fourteen PM, and Cass attempted to
share what she had observed so far in terms of
those that were injured. At that point, she was grabbed
by an officer who responded, I don't care when she
(27:06):
said she was an EMT, this is a homicide investigation.
If you don't get off the scene, you're going to
be arrested. Only people actively treating, actively engaged in medical
treatment can be on here.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And she was escorted away. Wasn't that what she was
doing or no? Crazy?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I mean it was okay, it was to that point,
So yeah, it's hard to say. June t Rex nightly
t REGs, who was shot in the head at close range,
died on the scene that night as a result of
her injuries. Others that were wounded received medical attention in
(27:47):
the wake of the emergency response to the horrific shooting,
including none other than Smith himself, who had been shot
in both the lower abdomen and bowel.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
He's the shooter, he sure is, and.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I gotta say, for my money, hopes it. Hope's a
good shot.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
He fired two shots and they both landed. Hell yeah,
I really hate that this is where part one ends. Oh,
I told you it was gonna get a lot worse.
It's hard to say that because nothing about this is
good and I hate to even try to like categorize,
(28:32):
but I want to know what happens to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, So June passed. June passed away at the scene,
and she was the elderly woman.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, she actually became involved with the group and started
quirking after she saw a BLM march coming through her
neighborhood and she decided to get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Gosh, she took her job so seriously that she did.
She stepped in front of a gun for people.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and at that point, she was not aware that
this man was armed, right, but I mean, somebody behaving
erratic and.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Violence, there's always a chance.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
There's always that possibility. And if it's not a gun,
it could be a knife.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Or she was quirking, perfecting. Yeah, I have a feeling
that she's maybe not the only person.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, join us next week for more devastating fucking news
from Jalen. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I know we always say it though.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It's really important to talk about these things, so that's
why we research it and present it to you in
a form that maybe hopefully you like to listen to. Yeah,
so you get the info.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, and hey, I did lead with the you know,
the stuff about the the bunny, whatever that's worth.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I was really excited when you started talking about furries.
I was like, furry crimes. Here we go, let's go.
I'm into it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I'm sorry, I can. I can take a run at
finding something maybe a little bit more lighthearted.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I want some furry I want some furry shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Okay, I'll see what I can do cover la boo
boo boo furries.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
That's got it there already. I was like, that's gotta
be a thing.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I mean, there already is puddles already done. Come on, man,
give it the times, puddles of feathery and a furry Oh.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, well should we do our taro?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
All right, We've got kind of an automny pumpkin ey
vibe for the altar. And this is four part one
and you've already shuffled the deck and put our powers
that be into it. And I'm gonna guide Kitlan's little
fingies with my mind. Here, she's gonna pick the perfect card.
(31:11):
Feel my mind in your mind right now? Any of
the cards feel like a different temperature, vibrate? Yeah, that's
what I thought too. Oh really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I mean, who would know if I was full of shit?
King of cups?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Okay, okay, that's not when we get all the time,
but a frequent here.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Do you want me to set it out on the altar?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh? Yes, sorry, I'm a tight adult.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Look at it real quick. Okay, it's a sea turtle.
You're I love that it's got like purply purply vibes.
It matches kind of like our coloring. You've got like
blue and green, and I've got purple and green. Oh yeah,
you pulled it in the upright, it looked like to me.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, okay, So King of Cups keywords are benevolent, culture, creativity,
emotional warmth, and protection. Ah, protection, And all I can
think is what you said about I'm going to be
thinking about June.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
For part one one. I was thinking about you.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
In many decks, this king sits on a throne and
wears rich garments and a crown. He usually appears as
a benevolent authority, a father figure who rules kindly and fairly.
In a reading, the King of Cups may signify an
actual person when he does. It's generally a mature man
(32:39):
who's cultured and knowledgeable in the arts.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And we've talked about this before.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
In Taro they say like man and woman, and they
really kind of mean like a male energy or a
female energy. Yeah, and I don't I was you ing
a female? I don't really know if yees? Okay, I
mean technically maybe who knows what they went by.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It really in their hearts? Ye, I don't really know,
but sure so.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
But I kind of was getting like a like a
more of a male vibe from June, like a protector
sort of vibe.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Not to say like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, you guys get what I'm trying to say, Like
a masculine this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
When the King of Cups appears upright, he represents strong
emotions and creative talent. If he represents a real person,
it's someone who wants to be loved and admired. He
may go to great lengths to gain your attention and affection.
(33:36):
Although he's easily hurt, he may not show it and
can hold a grudge. He can be rather indulgent and controlling,
but his friends can count on his support and protection.
Who part of that though kind of reminds me of
like the bad side. Yeah, it's kind of almost like
the flip side, although I could see someone who's like
(33:58):
kind of the old this person in the group kind
of being like.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
We're going to do it this way, Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
And like controlling doesn't necessarily have to be like abusive
like a planner.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Ye, but I'm also thinking about it as like in
terms of the.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It can be representing energy for more than one person.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, like the man who was being aggressive and things
like feelings easily hurt, could hold a grudge if you're
not like a good positive person like maybe June was.
You could have these similar vibes, but like you could
be totally different people. Yeah, like the outcomes are totally different.
One's a protector and one is a murderer.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Right, one of you is June and one of.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You is BJS. One of you is a piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Literally, BJ's blow drops Benjamin Jeffrey.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It's too nice the thing for him to be named after.
I get good vibes when I hear BJ. I don't
want to think about this guy.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And I had to be graphic or cruel. Ah, But
he that that may have It could.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Be that his current role in life has a lot
to do with that. Oh, okay, enough said.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
In a reading about money, the king can mean receiving
money through a creative venture, or it may suggest your
emotions are influencing a financial matter. Sometimes it represents a
financial backer. If the rating is about your job, the
king can describe a creative occupation. However, he may indicate
(35:36):
your longing for something better, perhaps you've grown complacent. In
a question about love, this card represents a deeply emotional, committed,
and romantic relationship. It can suggest jealousy and possessiveness. However,
or a need for more trust and openness. I feel
(35:58):
like there needs to be like more trust and openness
with the like the police and the protesters and things
like that. You know, it's funny though, because like the
first part of that actually makes me think of June
and her partner just in terms of the deeply emotional,
committed and romantic relationship. Listen, people are complicated mammals, and
(36:28):
some of them are good and some of them are less,
So I think makes sense.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I think that was a good card. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I think what you said too about like being complacent,
like maybe just you know kind of what we were
talking about, Like it doesn't affect you, so you know,
right first they came forth, Yeah, exactly, you knew what
I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, we had a little bit of a off mic
covers about.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh I thought that was on mic.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It wasn't. Oh I'm getting on I'm getting my life
mixed up. That was during their snack breaks.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh well, we were talking about complacency, yeah, a little bit,
and fascism and Nazi Germany. A little light snacking conversation,
just like a super light combo.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
That's funny that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I like didn't even realize conversations.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ties is.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Effortless. It's so seamless that Yeah, I mean, like these
people who are organizing protest and demonstrations, like they're not
being complacent, right, and they're a lot of the like creativity,
you still need like a lot of creativity to organize
those things.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
And yeah, absolutely tying more shit into the car.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah. I don't know. Part of me was nervous about
this case a little bit because certainly it centered around
more than one politically charged topic. But I feel like,
I don't know, hot take here. Maybe don't kill people
on the street for no reason on either side. Yeah,
(38:11):
I just just probably don't do that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Can we not shoot people anymore? Can you not? Anyway?
Guns are bad? Okay? O?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
God? Yeah, wait, we need to do the outro. We
don't have an outro any Oh it's kidding.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I forgot. Okay, I'm a human being. Have a creepy day.
We'll see you next Tuesday, unless you're a fucking.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Murderer, and then we'll see a never loser.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
You're not going shopping with us on Tuesdays. You wear
orange because you're in prison jumpsuit?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Get it? I thought that was pretty clever. What does
red pill mean?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Red pill is like when people go, all right, psycho misogynist.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Okay, I just want to double check. You said it
to me earlier, and I assume that's what I meant.
Like now you're saying it and I'm being recorded, so
I just want.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
To yeah, no, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah cut that out.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You did.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Sometimes I think about that though, I'm like, oh, like
I wonder if but I'm like, if I stop to
explain every I'm like, I feel like it's like in
the zeitgeist, but it's different when you're the person that's like,
we're the ones talking about it. It's like we should
be on the same page. Like if they don't get it,
they can google it. You don't know, Yeah, all right,
Daja reflected that it seemed like he was trying to
manufacture a stand your ground type scenario.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I was gonna say, I've been thinking it just seems
like he just wants he just wants something bad to happen.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
With statements like make me and let's do this.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They're saying no, let's not do this.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Literally, she said it. Really, it just felt to me
like he was a bomb. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi,
creepy people.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Hello, Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
This is PNW Hans and Homicides where we chat about
true crime, the paranormal and all things spooky in the
Pacific Northwest or the PNW.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It nasty, and we do terror reading at the end
of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.
That's the thing. I said that really fast. It kind
of sounded like I said, terror terror reading. For terror reading,
we do terror cards. We do witchcraft here if you
don't like it, scadetto boy. We also slip into English
(01:20):
accents that are probably terrible, but we can't help it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Sometimes I think that we get a little bit confused
because there are so many parts of the world that
speak with some iteration of a British accent. Yes, you know,
and we're not making fun, we're appreciating. No, we love it.
So anyway, any who's all? Benjamin Jeffrey Smith was born
(01:45):
on November twenty eighth, nineteen seventy eight in Concord, Massachusetts,
and grew up in Indiana before relocating to Portland, Oregon
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Ah, was he nasty?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah? Mm hmm, yeah, it's pretty nasty. Around that same
time is when he began getting involved in the furry community.
Hold up, what Yeah, I wouldn't get excited about it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I want a furry episode. I mean, this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh, I mean we're only going to talk about it
for like five seconds. Man, I got so invested, Okay,
I know, adopting the persona of a small male bunny
and the nickname Polly Bunn or Polyhead. According to a
tweet posted by Drake dus Sheep, the alias Polly Bunn
(02:43):
was one of the original founders of the hashtag baby
fur irc channel on furnt Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Oh if I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It's a whole string of words that didn't mean a
lot to me at the start of this. Had to
had to do a little bit of digging I would imagine. So, yeah,
I don't know what any of that means, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
As a gay man and practicing furry, he's probably one
of the last guys you'd expect to get red pilled.
(03:16):
But from there it's a pretty predictable tale of misogyny
and hate in the most heinous forms. He also filled
down the rabbit hole of COVID conspiracy theories and became
staunchly anti mask.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Wait did you do that on purpose?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I fell down the rabbit hole because he dressed like
a bunny?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh? I didn't. I think rabbit hole is just like, yes,
it's just it's so it's so extremely associated with this case.
I feel like in ways that aren't going to be
clear at this point other than the obvious.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But that's pretty funny though. Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Throughout Lockdown, he was chronically online complaining about the Black
Lives Matter movement and Antifa and spewing anti Semitic rants.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Hmm my favorite.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
He was enraged by protests in the city of Portland.
According to a former roommate, he believed that extreme violence,
rather than peaceful protest, was the only way of making
oneself heard. He hated protests about racial violence and injustice
in particular. Why remember how we talked about the red pill.
(04:35):
The city of Portland made headlines all over the country
for a number of them that took place during the pandemic,
and you may have heard the city being mentioned again
recently by the Cheeto and Chief.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh I hadn't heard.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's a lawless place, yes, So let's talk about public
demonstrations dissentarticularly those aimed at peaceful community action. Corking is
the practice of protecting marchers from traffic by placing one's car, bike,
or body to create a physical barrier near intersections and
(05:15):
cross streets. Okay, I was able to observe several minutes
of footage with detailed explanations of how the practice is
designed to keep the community moving safely. Corking, it's important
to note, is a volunteer action for protecting those participating
in peaceful protests or demonstrations. Both words are used kind
(05:38):
of interchangeably in some context. I feel like it can
be helpful to say demonstration as opposed to protests, because
the connotation just can be very different. Right, Yeah, but
I digress. The term should not be confused with kettling.
A police crowd control tactic where officers surround and contain
(06:02):
a group of demonstrators. That brings us to my new
hyper focus and obsession, forensic Architecture, And I promise there's
a good reason I'm talking about it, because I'm going
to talk about it for a minute. And you might
think that I've gone insane, and you're not entirely wrong,
but I do have a good reason.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Just you just felled on a rabbit hole. Hap me out.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It's a rabbit hole thing. Forensic Architecture is a research
agency based at Goldsmith's University of London that investigates human
rights violations using architectural and media analysis. The organization has
received awards like the Right Livelihood Award otherwise known as
(06:46):
the Alternative Nobel Prize, and a Peabody Award for co
creating an entire new academic field and emergent media practice.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
That sounds super impressive.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It pretty much is. Their apartment smells of rich mahogany
and many leather bound books.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I like the Alternative Nobel Peace Prize right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Their work has even been admitted as evidence in legal
processes in various jurisdictions, including the US, UK and other
parts of Europe as well as Israel and South America.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Wow. Yeah, they've got a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of really interesting stuff coming out of Israel and Ukraine
right now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So I bet yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Really really highly suggest obviously for the purposes of time
management and adulting. I've only been able to dive into
so many of their different resources, but really really highly
recommend if you're interested in checking it out that you do.
(08:02):
They're basically a badass globe trotting organization that uses digital
three D modeling for human rights investigation and documentary purposes.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Oohoo, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, you know when you see those shitty three D
model reenactments in I mean all kinds of documentaries, you know,
these are not that they are impressive, and I was
pretty fucking excited.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
As an organization operating in a highly sensitive area, they
have faced criticisms regarding their methodologies and potential bias, particularly
in context of political conflicts, and I think that's fair.
We should examine organizations in these types of spaces critically.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Though in this case such criticism has largely come from
NGO Monitor, which has itself been criticized by academic figures
diplomats and journalists, for allowing its research and conclusions to
be driven by politics, for not examining far right NGOs,
which is a string of words that you shouldn't they don't.
(09:25):
I didn't like it, Nope, And for spreading misinformation. NGO
Monitor is a Jerusalem based organization that promotes largely pro
Israel viewpoints. The leader of the organization has ties to
the Israeli government, having served as a consultant. Curiously, this
(09:46):
and other similar information has been omitted from his official
profiles that are published in English, of course, and I'm
done obsessing over I had to really look into this
because I was like, for forensic architecture is so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
That is really cool, But I.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Need to know, like what is like the legitimacy of this,
because the last thing that I want to do is
think that I've come across something that is shining a
light and it's really just like, you know, shitting into
a I don't know, I don't know. No, I don't
even know a three D model. Yeah, should he into
(10:26):
a three D model? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. But I'm providing
so much context on the background of the organization and
maybe it's overkilled, but it's because I think not only
is what forensic architecture doing really remarkable, but their resources
were so helpful. It was invaluable to me. Oh nice
(10:51):
in the research for this case. Everything that I'm going
to talk about, they did a three D rendering of
and or they have actual footage and that's a lot
of what that documentary piece is based on. They have
(11:12):
like actual like you can describe it like bodycam footage.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Oh okay, yeah, I'm interested to see, like what what
is this because like I don't exactly know what this
is yet.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I want to see like how how how is it used?
I really I think I would really like actually for
the two of us to like watch a portion of it, okay,
and you're going to already know the case, so we
don't even have to watch the whole thing. Although it's
only like I think thirty six minutes. I only say
(11:48):
watch part of it because it's not an easy watch
because of the bodycam footage and it's they've they've done
really well to kind of clip in places where where
it's like based on what's occurring. It's graphic and it's violent,
but it's not gratuitous. It's all done very clearly, to
(12:09):
make the details clear and to drive home certain points.
But it's all done in a way that it's it's not,
like I said, gratuitous. But yeah, the further you get
into it, the harder it gets to watch.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah. On the evening of February nineteenth, twenty twenty two,
there was a demonstration scheduled to take place starting off
at Normandale Park in Portland. That evening, a group of
support workers were gathered on the west side of the
park in preparation for a Black Lives Matter march. They
were helping to coordinate. The demonstrators were marching in recognition
(12:46):
of the deaths of a mere Lock of Minnesota and
Patrick Kimmons from Portland, Oregon. A mere Lock was a
twenty two year old black man who was shot and
killed by a Minneapolis police officer executing a no knock warrant,
though a mirror was not the subject of or named
(13:06):
in the warrant. Okay, they no longer do that type
of warrant in UH Minnesota anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I can't imagine why.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, on face value, you can understand the benefit of
executing a warrant and like not letting that person. It's
like when police show up at a scene without sirens. Okay,
you have like a tactical advantage there, but like once
you breach you know, a dwelling or other building, that person,
(13:42):
for all they know, they are literally having to take
their own like life, their own self defense into their hands.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I was gonna say, that just seems like a good
way to get shot.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And unfortunately it has that that has
proven to be.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
The case over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Actually, Patrick Kimmins was a twenty seven year old black
man killed by Portland police during a twenty eighteen altercation.
The circumstances of that shooting have at times been hotly
debated as part of an intense discourse about policing and
racial injustice. Forensic Architecture used a three D model of
(14:21):
the Normandale Park and surrounding neighborhood to illustrate the events
of that day. Their models are intended to be measurable
by the millimeter. WHOA, So I'm just going to jump
into a series of events and introduce the people involved
based on the timeline of the night.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, I'm gonna get cozy here, Okay, get co say,
not because I'm like comfortable with what's happening, but because, yeah,
because I need to uh get I need to be comforted.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yes, I'm not comfortable. I need comforted.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I need comforting. Yeah, no, that's fair. Pilton arrived at
seven pm at Normandale Park, followed by Desia, who got
there at approximately seven fifteen, and the crowd really hadn't
begun to gather yet. By seven twenty four. Another corker
(15:18):
named Dag arrived and parked next to June's car.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
The protective people.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, so for concret Yeah, I mean, I'm sure in
some contexts that kettling can serve a purpose, but I
just felt like, in the context of this case, it's
important that we create distinctions between certain groups. So for context,
(15:48):
all of these kind of support workers related to the demonstration.
They were on the opposite end of the park from
where all of the marchers were going to be. Okay,
because typically you have like your corkers, they're kind of
a big part of like the support team. They're kind
of on the back end.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Okay, that makes sense, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Because they're what they're trying to avoid is what has
happened in some of like the worst viral videos about
protests where people just come up behind a group that's
marching and just plow through them.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That type of thing. Yeah, I hate that.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Daike's arrival was shortly followed by another fellow corker, Hank
at seven twenty eight, who was among the last of
the group to arrive and park next to June's vehicle
on the opposite side. I just thought it was really funny.
Hank was like, I was like one of the last
show up because I'm always late.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Sounds like us.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah. By seven thirty one PM, a crowd was gathered
on the opposite side of the park for the march,
scheduled to begin at eight pm. Smith, who we introduced
as at the very Top, first approached the group of
quarkers at around seven thirty one pm. He asked a
strange question, how long are you going to be here?
(17:12):
He wanted to confirm the itinerary, presumably which when he
was informed that the march was scheduled to begin at eight,
he checked the time and walked away from the group. Cass,
a street medic amongst the group, said their pre meet
for the march was at around seven forty pm. Hope,
a volunteer armed guard, said he wasn't aware of anyone
(17:34):
else on the organizer team that was openly carrying that night.
Hope said they were specifically wearing a badge indicating their
role as another street medic, so openly carrying in the
sense that they were in no way openly carrying and
their duties were clearly designated as a medic.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
At the pre meet, Desa informed the group of a
change in their route taking them past unhoused neighbors. And
I love this nomenclature because why can't we use language
to lead with love neighbors? Neighbors?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean they are, Yeah, We're all neighbors, whether
you like it or not.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, I mean their intention was to keep things relatively
quiet in the neighborhood. Right as the group was embarking
on the march, Desa and Pilton shared a heartfelt moment.
This was just such a close community of people. Todd
and Hank were talking as they were preparing to leave,
(18:46):
and that's when they saw someone standing by a street
light that was out. That's creepy, like super ominous, the
single creepiest visual that I can summon. At the moment. Yeah,
the man appear unhappy about their presence. The group on
the opposite end of the park was alerted by organizers
(19:06):
that the march was beginning. Hope stowed their weapon in
the trunk of their vehicle as they began hearing raised voices. Yeah,
enter an angry, swearing caveman, who was informed that the
group was leaving, the organizers leading with attempts to de
escalate any brewing situation. So they're like, we're dude, we're leaving.
(19:30):
We're out of here, like it's all good, he responded.
If I ever see you again, I'm going to shoot
you in the head. Jus Deja reflected with the forensic
architecture team that she shared with June's wife, she knew
(19:50):
basically immediately this was not an individual that could be
de escalated. That individual was Benjamin Jeffs free Smith. She
began recording after about twenty to thirty seconds of the situation,
seemingly beginning to quickly escalate.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Okay, that good idea, right, like, yeah, get that shit recorded.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Absolutely absolutely, and I think normally once they actually take
off on the march, she typically did just run her camera.
Oh okay, yeah, so she was prepared, okay. The forensic
architecture piece then shows some of the footage she captured
that evening, beginning at seven point fifty seven pm. Smith
(20:39):
then begins to exhibit more physical force in the conflict,
beginning by aggressively approaching one of the organizers and then
fully charging at them. Geez, he has warned off, that's
assault and I don't want to fight with you. Just
go home. Remember that he's already been informed that they
(21:02):
are leaving, and the organizers already beginning to posture to
file out as they were literally scheduled to do. Deja
reflected that it seemed like he was trying to manufacture
a stand your ground type scenario.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was going to say, I've been thinking it just
seems like he just wants he just wants something bad
to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
With statements like make me and let's do this. They're
saying no, let's not do this. Yeah, literally, she said
it really it just felt to me like he was
a bomb. She called save walkie talkies. She called we
need de escalation on the corner of the park immediately
(21:48):
where the cars are parked. Immediately other organizers were approaching
from the opposite side of the park in response. It
was almost immediately after that that he brandished the web
and quickly firing multiple shots on the group at close range.
Calls went out to others in the group. Gunshots, gunshots, gunshots.
(22:10):
It was at seven fifty eight that Desia called for
de escalation. Then within a matter of seconds, he fired
several shots, and in the interim, June had stepped up
to him. She was probably one of the oldest in
(22:32):
the group, and she had physically put herself between him
and several others and just was like, this is done.
You need to just go home. The guard within the
organizers was able to return fire within seven seconds of
(22:54):
the gunman's initial shot. So remember this is he's literally
put his weapon in the trunk of his vehicle. At
this point, I'm through twenty three minutes of just under
thirty seven minutes in total. That have been a very
difficult watch. The guard Hope fires twice in response. The
(23:20):
shots of the two weapons were indistinguishable to those present
at northeast fifty fifth and Hasselo Street at the southwest
corner of Normandale Park that night. Smith responded to the
armed guard Hope when questioned about the whereabouts of his
gun in the aftermath, pointing toward his left angle as
he lay on the ground, and stated, it's right there,
(23:42):
but I wish I still had it so that I
could put it in my mouth.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You should have done that first.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That would have been super a lot better for a
lot of people. Hope ensured that the weapon was removed
from his immediate access. Cass quickly began rendering aid. Today
and Pike, another medic who stated he'd been shot in
the head. She was shocked to realize when she looked
(24:09):
up that there was a hole in his beanie, and
she thought to herself, so you have. And obviously that
poor medic was bleeding pretty profusely. When police arrived at
the scene, the mood was very tense. Understandably, I think
it was a Black Lives Matter protest. Yeah, the street
(24:33):
medic Cass spoke with officers stating, I'm an EMT. Six
people have been shot. Can I go back to treating
my patients. Video footage of Deja screaming at the officers
that they needed help. This is the part that I
started really ugly crying. It's pretty heart wrenching. That was
(24:55):
at about eight ten pm. Cass was given the go
ahead to continue trying to administer aid to the injured.
Officers approached Ali, who had been shot multiple times, asking
questions as she sat, likely in shock in every sense
of the word, still seated in her vehicle. Cast told
(25:17):
officers she's been shot four times. You don't need to
interview her right now. She needs medical attention. And it's
not uncommon for them to try to interview up until
the point that EMS arrives and they're just trying to
get as much information as they can. Yeah, that's understandable
to a point, but when you see it from the
(25:38):
other side, of course, it feels very dispassionate.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Especially when someone's been shot that many times, like they're hurting.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Or you know like yeah yeah, yeah, like my mind
isn't even working. I'm just frustrated right now. Yeah, I mean,
just the idea of the situation is enough to kind
of make you just go like non verbal and just.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Like like like you just need to comfort somebody in
that state, like not like maybe sit there and talk
to them, maybe not just like bombard them with questions.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, it's it's tough because you got to thread the needle, right,
I mean, especially someone that's been shot multiple times. You're like, well,
we want to get the information so that we can
find a person that did this.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
In case they passed.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, I mean, and that's that's an awful thought in
that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well, I just feel like there's some way for training
to happen to where like these things can be possible
for like sensitivity and getting information. Like you don't think
there's some sort of way. Maybe maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I'm not a professional.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, whatever, Yeah, there's a lot of whatever. The first
ambulance arrived at eight fourteen PM, and Cass attempted to
share what she had observed so far in terms of
those that were injured. At that point, she was grabbed
by an officer who responded, I don't care when she
(27:06):
said she was an EMT, this is a homicide investigation.
If you don't get off the scene, you're going to
be arrested. Only people actively treating, actively engaged in medical
treatment can be on here.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And she was escorted away. Wasn't that what she was
doing or no? Crazy?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I mean it was okay, it was to that point,
So yeah, it's hard to say. June t Rex nightly
t REGs, who was shot in the head at close range,
died on the scene that night as a result of
her injuries. Others that were wounded received medical attention in
(27:47):
the wake of the emergency response to the horrific shooting,
including none other than Smith himself, who had been shot
in both the lower abdomen and bowel.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
He's the shooter, he sure is, and.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I gotta say, for my money, hopes it. Hope's a
good shot.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
He fired two shots and they both landed. Hell yeah,
I really hate that this is where part one ends. Oh,
I told you it was gonna get a lot worse.
It's hard to say that because nothing about this is
good and I hate to even try to like categorize,
(28:32):
but I want to know what happens to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, So June passed. June passed away at the scene,
and she was the elderly woman.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, she actually became involved with the group and started
quirking after she saw a BLM march coming through her
neighborhood and she decided to get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Gosh, she took her job so seriously that she did.
She stepped in front of a gun for people.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and at that point, she was not aware that
this man was armed, right, but I mean, somebody behaving
erratic and.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Violence, there's always a chance.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
There's always that possibility. And if it's not a gun,
it could be a knife.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Or she was quirking, perfecting. Yeah, I have a feeling
that she's maybe not the only person.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, join us next week for more devastating fucking news
from Jalen. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I know we always say it though.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It's really important to talk about these things, so that's
why we research it and present it to you in
a form that maybe hopefully you like to listen to. Yeah,
so you get the info.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, and hey, I did lead with the you know,
the stuff about the the bunny, whatever that's worth.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I was really excited when you started talking about furries.
I was like, furry crimes. Here we go, let's go.
I'm into it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I'm sorry, I can. I can take a run at
finding something maybe a little bit more lighthearted.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I want some furry I want some furry shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Okay, I'll see what I can do cover la boo
boo boo furries.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
That's got it there already. I was like, that's gotta
be a thing.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I mean, there already is puddles already done. Come on, man,
give it the times, puddles of feathery and a furry Oh.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, well should we do our taro?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
All right, We've got kind of an automny pumpkin ey
vibe for the altar. And this is four part one
and you've already shuffled the deck and put our powers
that be into it. And I'm gonna guide Kitlan's little
fingies with my mind. Here, she's gonna pick the perfect card.
(31:11):
Feel my mind in your mind right now? Any of
the cards feel like a different temperature, vibrate? Yeah, that's
what I thought too. Oh really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I mean, who would know if I was full of shit?
King of cups?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Okay, okay, that's not when we get all the time,
but a frequent here.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Do you want me to set it out on the altar?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh? Yes, sorry, I'm a tight adult.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Look at it real quick. Okay, it's a sea turtle.
You're I love that it's got like purply purply vibes.
It matches kind of like our coloring. You've got like
blue and green, and I've got purple and green. Oh yeah,
you pulled it in the upright, it looked like to me.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, okay, So King of Cups keywords are benevolent, culture, creativity,
emotional warmth, and protection. Ah, protection, And all I can
think is what you said about I'm going to be
thinking about June.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
For part one one. I was thinking about you.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
In many decks, this king sits on a throne and
wears rich garments and a crown. He usually appears as
a benevolent authority, a father figure who rules kindly and fairly.
In a reading, the King of Cups may signify an
actual person when he does. It's generally a mature man
(32:39):
who's cultured and knowledgeable in the arts.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And we've talked about this before.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
In Taro they say like man and woman, and they
really kind of mean like a male energy or a
female energy. Yeah, and I don't I was you ing
a female? I don't really know if yees? Okay, I
mean technically maybe who knows what they went by.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It really in their hearts? Ye, I don't really know,
but sure so.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
But I kind of was getting like a like a
more of a male vibe from June, like a protector
sort of vibe.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Not to say like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, you guys get what I'm trying to say, Like
a masculine this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
When the King of Cups appears upright, he represents strong
emotions and creative talent. If he represents a real person,
it's someone who wants to be loved and admired. He
may go to great lengths to gain your attention and affection.
(33:36):
Although he's easily hurt, he may not show it and
can hold a grudge. He can be rather indulgent and controlling,
but his friends can count on his support and protection.
Who part of that though kind of reminds me of
like the bad side. Yeah, it's kind of almost like
the flip side, although I could see someone who's like
(33:58):
kind of the old this person in the group kind
of being like.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
We're going to do it this way, Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
And like controlling doesn't necessarily have to be like abusive
like a planner.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Ye, but I'm also thinking about it as like in
terms of the.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It can be representing energy for more than one person.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, like the man who was being aggressive and things
like feelings easily hurt, could hold a grudge if you're
not like a good positive person like maybe June was.
You could have these similar vibes, but like you could
be totally different people. Yeah, like the outcomes are totally different.
One's a protector and one is a murderer.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Right, one of you is June and one of.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You is BJS. One of you is a piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Literally, BJ's blow drops Benjamin Jeffrey.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It's too nice the thing for him to be named after.
I get good vibes when I hear BJ. I don't
want to think about this guy.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And I had to be graphic or cruel. Ah, But
he that that may have It could.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Be that his current role in life has a lot
to do with that. Oh, okay, enough said.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
In a reading about money, the king can mean receiving
money through a creative venture, or it may suggest your
emotions are influencing a financial matter. Sometimes it represents a
financial backer. If the rating is about your job, the
king can describe a creative occupation. However, he may indicate
(35:36):
your longing for something better, perhaps you've grown complacent. In
a question about love, this card represents a deeply emotional, committed,
and romantic relationship. It can suggest jealousy and possessiveness. However,
or a need for more trust and openness. I feel
(35:58):
like there needs to be like more trust and openness
with the like the police and the protesters and things
like that. You know, it's funny though, because like the
first part of that actually makes me think of June
and her partner just in terms of the deeply emotional,
committed and romantic relationship. Listen, people are complicated mammals, and
(36:28):
some of them are good and some of them are less,
So I think makes sense.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I think that was a good card. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I think what you said too about like being complacent,
like maybe just you know kind of what we were
talking about, Like it doesn't affect you, so you know,
right first they came forth, Yeah, exactly, you knew what
I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, we had a little bit of a off mic
covers about.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh I thought that was on mic.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It wasn't. Oh I'm getting on I'm getting my life
mixed up. That was during their snack breaks.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh well, we were talking about complacency, yeah, a little bit,
and fascism and Nazi Germany. A little light snacking conversation,
just like a super light combo.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
That's funny that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I like didn't even realize conversations.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ties is.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Effortless. It's so seamless that Yeah, I mean, like these
people who are organizing protest and demonstrations, like they're not
being complacent, right, and they're a lot of the like creativity,
you still need like a lot of creativity to organize
those things.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
And yeah, absolutely tying more shit into the car.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah. I don't know. Part of me was nervous about
this case a little bit because certainly it centered around
more than one politically charged topic. But I feel like,
I don't know, hot take here. Maybe don't kill people
on the street for no reason on either side. Yeah,
(38:11):
I just just probably don't do that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Can we not shoot people anymore? Can you not? Anyway?
Guns are bad? Okay? O?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
God? Yeah, wait, we need to do the outro. We
don't have an outro any Oh it's kidding.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I forgot. Okay, I'm a human being. Have a creepy day.
We'll see you next Tuesday, unless you're a fucking.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Murderer, and then we'll see a never loser.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
You're not going shopping with us on Tuesdays. You wear
orange because you're in prison jumpsuit?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Get it? I thought that was pretty clever. What does
red pill mean?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Red pill is like when people go, all right, psycho misogynist.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Okay, I just want to double check. You said it
to me earlier, and I assume that's what I meant.
Like now you're saying it and I'm being recorded, so
I just want.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
To yeah, no, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah cut that out.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You did.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Sometimes I think about that though, I'm like, oh, like
I wonder if but I'm like, if I stop to
explain every I'm like, I feel like it's like in
the zeitgeist, but it's different when you're the person that's like,
we're the ones talking about it. It's like we should
be on the same page. Like if they don't get it,
they can google it. You don't know, Yeah, all right,
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