August 30, 2023 • 7 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[MUSIC]
(00:03):
Hi there, I'm Danny Brown and you're listening to Pod Chat,
the show that features leaders of the podcasting space sharing their insights on the future of the medium.
This week it's a bonus episode, but first just a quick update.
The show's been on a bit of a hiatus over the summer and it was meant to come back before this,
so I apologise for the delay.
Life got in the way a little bit, so what was meant to be a short break over the summer turned into an extended one.
(00:25):
So again, apologies for that, but the show will be back soon with the usual interviews.
This week, however, I want to talk about why indie podcasters should use direct sponsorship and membership or tips.
I've just come back from Podcast Movement in Denver, Colorado,
and one of the overarching topics that was up for discussion was podcast monetization.
No change there from previous years then.
And it's understandable.
(00:46):
It's a discussion that's been front and center of the podcasting space for many years now,
especially as we see leading industry publications like Podnews and others
share success stories, partnerships, exclusive deals, and more.
But while the conversation remains fresh, the approach to monetisation seems to have stalled, at least in some quarters.
While I couldn't get to listen to all the sessions and tracks around monetisation at Podcast Movement,
(01:07):
one thing I did notice was some of the thinking about advertising being the lead or the best option for podcasters.
While this might be the case for larger podcasts and media companies that represent these shows,
these ad partnerships work because the podcast is getting tens, if not hundreds of thousands of episode downloads within the first 28 days,
or 30, depending on whose data you track.
They might even be in the millions.
(01:28):
So yes, it makes sense for advertisers to partner with them and vice versa.
After all, that many ears placed in front of a sponsor's message is always attractive.
But for the average indie podcaster with maybe a few hundred downloads,
or even averaging a couple of thousand,
this approach won't work.
And that's okay, because it doesn't need to.
Instead, there are far more effective ways to monetize your show,
(01:50):
regardless the size of your audience.
The problem with using download numbers as a metric for podcast success
is that they don't tell the full story.
Because of auto download features in podcast apps,
and queue for later choices by listeners,
not every download will result in a listen.
So while an episode might get 10,000 downloads, for example,
perhaps only 2,000 result in an actual listen.
(02:11):
While that's still a great metric,
it does only represent 20% of the target audience
hearing an ad.
Yet sometimes advertisers still pay for all the downloads,
or maybe impressions.
And again, impressions could be a questionable metric
to go by, depending on how the agreement is set up.
Even if they're paying for CPM, which is cost per mille or cost per thousand listens,
different platforms track listens differently, so that can also skew figures.
(02:33):
Additionally, depending on how the podcaster is inserting ads,
you may have less say over where they go than other options.
You might also have less say over which ad partners you work with,
depending on whether you're using an ad exchange that gives you that control,
or with your podcast host that inserts at points they feel make sense,
and with partners they feel are best suited to you.
This can cause a bit of a disconnect and actually lose your listeners.
(02:56):
So, instead of taking this ad-based approach,
think of what makes sense not only for you, but your audience
and the sponsors or partners you're thinking of working with.
Even if you have a smaller audience, if the relevance and context is high,
the more likely an action will be taken,
whether that's your listeners redeeming a discount promo code,
getting an extended free trial,
or access to an exclusive online course event that your sponsor partner is running.
(03:18):
I was speaking with a podcaster about this at Podcast Movement
and wanted to know how to attract and work with sponsors when the show wasn't attracting thousands and thousands of downloads.
So we went through some of the following.
We chatted about his niche, his downloads, and how many unique listeners he had compared to these downloads.
We saw by his analytics that he had a pretty engaged and loyal listenership.
And we chatted about the types of sponsors he'd want to present to his audience and vice versa.
(03:43):
From there, we saw an opportunity for him to work with a local comic book store in Culver City, Los Angeles.
Because it turns out he had a pretty nice listenership there after attending a Comic-Con style event.
Even though he wasn't local to Culver City, he could let the comic book store know that he has X amount of regular listeners every single week.
And if the store was willing to sponsor the show, then the podcaster essentially has over 50 listeners who he could promote that store to in Culver City.
(04:06):
If you're a small business and you're told that you could potentially get 50+ Warm Leads customers each week, that's a pretty win-win opportunity right there.
That's just one example of where direct sponsorship with a relevant audience and sponsor or partner can work,
even with so-called lower numbers.
What's even cooler about this example is that the podcaster isn't even local,
but the audience is.
(04:27):
Just one more reason why you should be deep diving into your analytics for data that works.
Now with that example, the extra care and time the podcaster put into identifying a sponsor that works for their niche,
as well as ensuring their audience received value from the partnership,
In this case, exclusive backstage invites to offer appearances and first option a newly released merchandise.
It makes this a very valid partnership for both sides.
(04:49):
It's this kind of care and attention for your audience that can also reward you
if you go a more direct route to monetization with tips or memberships.
Whether that's something like Buy Me A Coffee or Patreon,
or the recently released Tips and Membership feature from Captivate,
where I'm head of podcaster support and experience,
these are excellent ways for you to offer listeners something extra.
And for them to support their favourite podcaster or podcasters
(05:10):
while getting rewards for doing so.
It's why one-off tips and memberships are so popular now,
both for podcasters and their listeners.
As a listener, I know I'd rather throw a few bucks the way of a podcaster
whose content has improved my life in some way,
as opposed to one where monetisation is led by how much they can make
instead of how much value they can offer their listeners.
If you look after your audience,
(05:30):
and consistently deliver on their expectations
when it comes to what to expect from your show,
that consistency will be rewarded by loyalty.
They'll remain an active listener or follower,
and be more open to supporting you if and when you're ready to offer something for a premium option,
whether that's a one-off tip or a current monthly membership.
Just make sure to keep things simple and realistic.
If it's a one-off tip, don't overcomplicate with multiple amount options.
(05:53):
Instead, either make a couple of default options or let the listener choose their own.
If it's a membership option, make every tier different from each other,
so each one shows a visible change from the previous one.
Make the benefits of each clear and obvious.
Offer a free trial. Memberships can still be tricky for some listeners to understand,
so a free trial, while still receiving the perk of the paid membership, is a great way to show
(06:15):
why they'd want to upgrade and pay. Offer a personal message and be genuine about why you
truly appreciate their support. And be sure to thank publicly where possible and give shouts
on your podcast. Show that your audience and their support means something. Memberships and tips can
be super effective when it comes to earning through your show. Listeners generally want to
support their favourite creators and if they can do that monetarily, they will.
(06:36):
Especially if you're super smart with the perks that come from being a member.
And maybe offer exclusive perks from sponsors that you're working with for an
all-round partnership bonus for both listener and sponsor. So for example,
"Subscribe to Tier X and get a special limited edition item from this show's
kind sponsors." The key thing to remember whether you're working with sponsors or
more directly with tips and memberships is to always have your audience front
(06:58):
and centre when it comes to what's on offer. It needs to make sense for them
and benefit them, much like your content hopefully does.
Get that right, and the size of your audience matters far less
than if you were just going down the advertiser route.
The opportunities are there, you just need to take them.
[MUSIC]
(00:03):
Hi there, I'm Danny Brown and you're listening to Pod Chat,
the show that features leaders of the podcasting space sharing their insights on the future of the medium.
This week it's a bonus episode, but first just a quick update.
The show's been on a bit of a hiatus over the summer and it was meant to come back before this,
so I apologise for the delay.
Life got in the way a little bit, so what was meant to be a short break over the summer turned into an extended one.
(00:25):
So again, apologies for that, but the show will be back soon with the usual interviews.
This week, however, I want to talk about why indie podcasters should use direct sponsorship and membership or tips.
I've just come back from Podcast Movement in Denver, Colorado,
and one of the overarching topics that was up for discussion was podcast monetization.
No change there from previous years then.
And it's understandable.
(00:46):
It's a discussion that's been front and center of the podcasting space for many years now,
especially as we see leading industry publications like Podnews and others
share success stories, partnerships, exclusive deals, and more.
But while the conversation remains fresh, the approach to monetisation seems to have stalled, at least in some quarters.
While I couldn't get to listen to all the sessions and tracks around monetisation at Podcast Movement,
(01:07):
one thing I did notice was some of the thinking about advertising being the lead or the best option for podcasters.
While this might be the case for larger podcasts and media companies that represent these shows,
these ad partnerships work because the podcast is getting tens, if not hundreds of thousands of episode downloads within the first 28 days,
or 30, depending on whose data you track.
They might even be in the millions.
(01:28):
So yes, it makes sense for advertisers to partner with them and vice versa.
After all, that many ears placed in front of a sponsor's message is always attractive.
But for the average indie podcaster with maybe a few hundred downloads,
or even averaging a couple of thousand,
this approach won't work.
And that's okay, because it doesn't need to.
Instead, there are far more effective ways to monetize your show,
(01:50):
regardless the size of your audience.
The problem with using download numbers as a metric for podcast success
is that they don't tell the full story.
Because of auto download features in podcast apps,
and queue for later choices by listeners,
not every download will result in a listen.
So while an episode might get 10,000 downloads, for example,
perhaps only 2,000 result in an actual listen.
(02:11):
While that's still a great metric,
it does only represent 20% of the target audience
hearing an ad.
Yet sometimes advertisers still pay for all the downloads,
or maybe impressions.
And again, impressions could be a questionable metric
to go by, depending on how the agreement is set up.
Even if they're paying for CPM, which is cost per mille or cost per thousand listens,
different platforms track listens differently, so that can also skew figures.
(02:33):
Additionally, depending on how the podcaster is inserting ads,
you may have less say over where they go than other options.
You might also have less say over which ad partners you work with,
depending on whether you're using an ad exchange that gives you that control,
or with your podcast host that inserts at points they feel make sense,
and with partners they feel are best suited to you.
This can cause a bit of a disconnect and actually lose your listeners.
(02:56):
So, instead of taking this ad-based approach,
think of what makes sense not only for you, but your audience
and the sponsors or partners you're thinking of working with.
Even if you have a smaller audience, if the relevance and context is high,
the more likely an action will be taken,
whether that's your listeners redeeming a discount promo code,
getting an extended free trial,
or access to an exclusive online course event that your sponsor partner is running.
(03:18):
I was speaking with a podcaster about this at Podcast Movement
and wanted to know how to attract and work with sponsors when the show wasn't attracting thousands and thousands of downloads.
So we went through some of the following.
We chatted about his niche, his downloads, and how many unique listeners he had compared to these downloads.
We saw by his analytics that he had a pretty engaged and loyal listenership.
And we chatted about the types of sponsors he'd want to present to his audience and vice versa.
(03:43):
From there, we saw an opportunity for him to work with a local comic book store in Culver City, Los Angeles.
Because it turns out he had a pretty nice listenership there after attending a Comic-Con style event.
Even though he wasn't local to Culver City, he could let the comic book store know that he has X amount of regular listeners every single week.
And if the store was willing to sponsor the show, then the podcaster essentially has over 50 listeners who he could promote that store to in Culver City.
(04:06):
If you're a small business and you're told that you could potentially get 50+ Warm Leads customers each week, that's a pretty win-win opportunity right there.
That's just one example of where direct sponsorship with a relevant audience and sponsor or partner can work,
even with so-called lower numbers.
What's even cooler about this example is that the podcaster isn't even local,
but the audience is.
(04:27):
Just one more reason why you should be deep diving into your analytics for data that works.
Now with that example, the extra care and time the podcaster put into identifying a sponsor that works for their niche,
as well as ensuring their audience received value from the partnership,
In this case, exclusive backstage invites to offer appearances and first option a newly released merchandise.
It makes this a very valid partnership for both sides.
(04:49):
It's this kind of care and attention for your audience that can also reward you
if you go a more direct route to monetization with tips or memberships.
Whether that's something like Buy Me A Coffee or Patreon,
or the recently released Tips and Membership feature from Captivate,
where I'm head of podcaster support and experience,
these are excellent ways for you to offer listeners something extra.
And for them to support their favourite podcaster or podcasters
(05:10):
while getting rewards for doing so.
It's why one-off tips and memberships are so popular now,
both for podcasters and their listeners.
As a listener, I know I'd rather throw a few bucks the way of a podcaster
whose content has improved my life in some way,
as opposed to one where monetisation is led by how much they can make
instead of how much value they can offer their listeners.
If you look after your audience,
(05:30):
and consistently deliver on their expectations
when it comes to what to expect from your show,
that consistency will be rewarded by loyalty.
They'll remain an active listener or follower,
and be more open to supporting you if and when you're ready to offer something for a premium option,
whether that's a one-off tip or a current monthly membership.
Just make sure to keep things simple and realistic.
If it's a one-off tip, don't overcomplicate with multiple amount options.
(05:53):
Instead, either make a couple of default options or let the listener choose their own.
If it's a membership option, make every tier different from each other,
so each one shows a visible change from the previous one.
Make the benefits of each clear and obvious.
Offer a free trial. Memberships can still be tricky for some listeners to understand,
so a free trial, while still receiving the perk of the paid membership, is a great way to show
(06:15):
why they'd want to upgrade and pay. Offer a personal message and be genuine about why you
truly appreciate their support. And be sure to thank publicly where possible and give shouts
on your podcast. Show that your audience and their support means something. Memberships and tips can
be super effective when it comes to earning through your show. Listeners generally want to
support their favourite creators and if they can do that monetarily, they will.
(06:36):
Especially if you're super smart with the perks that come from being a member.
And maybe offer exclusive perks from sponsors that you're working with for an
all-round partnership bonus for both listener and sponsor. So for example,
"Subscribe to Tier X and get a special limited edition item from this show's
kind sponsors." The key thing to remember whether you're working with sponsors or
more directly with tips and memberships is to always have your audience front
(06:58):
and centre when it comes to what's on offer. It needs to make sense for them
and benefit them, much like your content hopefully does.
Get that right, and the size of your audience matters far less
than if you were just going down the advertiser route.
The opportunities are there, you just need to take them.
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