Amazon Music's Audible move; Neil Mody from Headliner, and Alberto Betella from RSS.com

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Cridlan (00:00):
It's Friday, the 22nd of November 2024.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News
, and I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO ofTrue Fans In the chapters.
Today, amazon Music getsaudible.
How bad is podfade?
Podcast lists of 2024 fromApple and others.

Neil Mody (00:27):
And Mule Modi, ceo and co-founder of Headliner and
glad to be here.
We'll be on later to talk aboutall our integrations that we
released recently Hubhopper,tiktok and more.

Alberto Betella (00:39):
I'm Alberto Betella and I'm going to be on
the show to talk about Ghost AIand RSScom.
They will.

This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout, with
the tools, support and communityto ensure you keep podcasting.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting with buzzsproutcom.
From your daily newsletter, thePod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi (01:00):
Someone's woken Amazon up.
I thought sleepy Amazon was offon holiday for the rest of the
century.
Wow, I guess Spotify'sannouncement last week sort of
rattled a few cages because itlooks like Amazon's adding
audiobooks to Amazon Music.
Now what are they doing, James?
Tell me more.

So this is a big, big, big deal, I think, and
very clever.
However, amazon has, of course,audible, which is the biggest
audiobook website and service,and everything else.

(01:37):
They are putting all of Audibleinto the Amazon Music app,
Music, which is an extra set ofmoney, but anyone who is a
subscriber to Amazon Music inthe US, uk and Canada can now
listen to one Audible title forfree each month, which is so
super simple, isn't it?
One book for free each month,or that also goes for one audio

(02:00):
production that Audible has onoffer as well for free each
month.
And, of course, that goesalongside Amazon's music.
And also Amazon, let's notforget, also offers ad-free
podcasts, so they actually paymoney to take some podcasts

(02:20):
which are ad-free and make thoseavailable for unlimited
subscribers as well in theAmazon Music app.
I think it makes a ton of sense, to be honest.

Sam Sethi (02:31):
It does, except no one uses it.
I mean, I'm an Audible user andthat one credit, which is
fundamentally £7.99, is whatthey're now giving to Amazon
Music.
So that's the value propositionthat they're offering.
I've got a Lexus.
I don't set my Lexus to useAmazon Music.

(02:51):
I don't use it in the car, Idon't use it on my phone.
I'm a Prime member, I'm anAudible member, and yet I can't
be bothered to go to AmazonMusic and I don't know what's
causing that.
But I don't think I'm alone.

No, I'm sure you're not alone.
And actually Amazon Music it'sgot a free tier for Amazon Prime
subscribers already.
Unlimited is an extra 10 USdollars a month.
They've got 200 million Primesubscribers across the world at
least, because that was the lastfigure that they released and
that was in 2020.
So that was the last figurethat they released and that was

(03:25):
in 2020.
So you can imagine how manythat they've got now.
But Amazon Music, I would agreeit really isn't used very much.
If you look at OP3, I did asnapshot of that in August 1.5%
of all podcast downloads, whichis actually more than Buzzsprout
say.
Buzzsprout only say 0.9% inOctober.

(03:47):
So I wonder whether a freeaudio book will actually get
people using the Amazon Musicapp a little bit more for their
podcasts.
But also Amazon Music, ofcourse you know I mean.
One thing that Amazon does have, again that Spotify doesn't, is
Spotify Hi-Fi.
Amazon launched HD audio backin 2019.

(04:07):
Spotify Hi-Fi was announced inFebruary 2021, but it still
hasn't launched.
So Amazon is actually a muchbetter experience in terms of
the content that they have thananything else.
So I do wonder why people don'tactually use it.

Sam Sethi (04:26):
I think Amazon have missed so many tricks.
I don't know what it is.
The Alexa hiatus was massive.
At one point, you know, I hadsix Alexas around the house.
I can now probably think threeare active, three are collecting
dust.
The uh skills just were useless.

(04:46):
They didn't really do what theywere supposed to do.
The promised open ai llm typeupgrade to amazon alexis nowhere
near and I think they're nowsaying you have to buy new ones.
Um, they should have madeamazon music a default.
I think audible should havebeen part of amazon Music years
ago.
I don't and I've said thisbefore on this show I don't get

(05:06):
why they have a separate Audiblepodcast division.
It really probably onlyreflects internal politics
between two directors who won'tmerge their little fiefdoms.
I'm sorry, I just don't thinkthis is going to move the needle
for Amazon at all.

I think you're right.
Sadly, which is weird becauseAmazon Music does pretty well if
you look into India and inJapan, where they are the number
two open RSS podcast app, buteverywhere else they're
virtually nowhere, and you knowit's a little bit weird, I
suppose if you were to have alook elsewhere.
Obviously, apple offers audiobooks in the Apple Books app.

(05:42):
Obviously Apple offersaudiobooks in the Apple Books
app.
Google offers audiobooks aswell in Google Play Books, but
obviously there's nosubscription offer on either of
those and both of those are soseparate from podcasts they're
not cross-promoted at all.
So you've got that sort of sideas well.
I have to say, if you're a fanof audiobooks and you really
like audio books, then youshould be using the Libby app,

(06:07):
which is completely free.
You plug in your library cardin there and you can download as
many audio books and indeed youknow eBooks as you like.
So you know, perhaps going awayand using that, but yeah, it's
a really good move from AmazonMusic.
Is it going to be enough tomove the needle?
I don't think so and I dowonder why that is, and I wonder

(06:31):
whether it's just you know, atthe end of the day, people who
are interested in that sort ofthing have Spotify already, or
people who are interested inthat sort of thing find that the
Amazon Music app, for whateverreason, isn't quite as good as
the app that they're currentlyusing.
I don't know.

Sam Sethi (06:52):
Could it be just as simple, as it doesn't say
podcast in the word Amazon Musicand no one thinks there's
podcast there.

I mean, but there again, nor does Spotify no but
it doesn't say Spotify Music,it's Spotify.
Ah well, yes, absolutely, andalso I do.
I do notice that in the UI forAmazon music it says audible.
It doesn't say audio books.
And you know, I can understandthat, because actually they're
offering more than just audiobooks.

(07:16):
They're offering all ofaudibles.
You know audio fiction and youknow all of the paid podcasts
that they have there as well.
But again, I don't know howobvious that is going to be to a
typical user.
If they know Audible foraudiobooks, are they going to
know Audible for all of theother stuff that Audible does?
I don't know.

(07:36):
So, you know, it's reallyinteresting.
I'm always fascinated at Amazonbecause they clearly have an
awful lot of good people workingthere, but I am fascinated at
seeing why that product justsimply doesn't get there, when
actually, on paper, it's a muchbetter experience, you know, in

(07:56):
terms of content, than anythingelse which is available.

Sam Sethi (07:59):
Yeah, I mean, it's weird that also.
We've tried on numerousoccasions I know I have, I'm
sure you have as well, james totry and get amazon spokespeople
to come on this show to talkabout their strategy, to tell
about new product announcementsnada, nothing, um, and I don't
know what it is.
I don't know if they're goingto be too cool for school.

(08:21):
Like apple you, you know wecan't talk to anybody, we're
Apple.
I don't know if Amazon's justtrying to copy them, but it
would be nice if an Amazonspokesperson from somewhere
around the globe actuallydecided to talk to the press and
it would be helpful to tell uswhat they're doing, because,
again, they're out of sight andout of mind to me.
That's fundamentally what Ithink the problem with Amazon is

(08:43):
, and I don't think this isgoing to make any difference.

No, I mean, I would say, as we may get into at
the end of this show, I wouldsay that Amazon's PR people are
lovely and obviously I have nota beef with them at all.
They are fantastic people and Iwish them all very well.
But what I would also say isthat for many years, amazon

(09:10):
wasn't sending me any pressreleases at all about the Amazon
Music app, because I'm based inAustralia and so therefore, it
was the job of somebody inAustralia to send me the
information, even though all ofthe information was, of course,
coming out of the US.
So it ended up being a realsort of messy, you know,

(09:33):
territorial thing of people inthe US said well, he's in
Australia, so the Australiansshould be dealing with that.
And the people in Australiawere going well, you're coming
up with all of the ideas and thestories.
You should be helping him withthat.
So it was just, it was a bit ofa mess.
So I mean, you know, but, as Isay, amazon's PR people are

(09:54):
talking to me now and they'relovely human beings.

Sam Sethi (09:59):
I will praise you that for you then, Joe.
That was Sam Sethi who had a goat Amazon.
James loves you.
You're okay, yes.
Now just one thing.
You mentioned Spotify notreleasing the hi-fi version of
their audio tracks or musictracks.
They're not stupid, so why doyou think they're not doing it,
James?

I wonder whether or not actually it's a bit of an
issue with the record companies.
The record company is playinghardball with Spotify and
basically saying no, you don'tget access to our high quality
master tracks until you do X, yor Z.
And Spotify have said well, wedon't want to do X, y and Z, so
we're just not going to bother.

(10:39):
I wonder if it's just purelythat it's a contractual argument
with the record companies.
If they've got some leverageover Spotify and you can see
them wanting to have a littlebit of leverage over that
company, then this is a greatplace for them to do that,

(11:00):
because they can just turnaround and say, well, no, we're
not going to give you ourhigh-quality masters.
So I think it just could be,frankly, just as simple as that.

Sam Sethi (11:16):
James.
Moving on then, spotify was abig conversation piece for us
last week, and Spotify, wetalked about a few weeks ago,
has rolled out an easier way toshare podcasts to TikTok both
music and audio books and wetalked about their integration
with Instagram.
But we also touched on the factthat a company called Headliner
has done a lot of work withSpotify, youtube, tiktok, and it
seemed that it would be a goodtime to talk to somebody at

(11:38):
Headliner.
They've done deals withHubhopper and they've done deals
with video creators as well.
So, headliner, we use it, don'twe, james?

Yeah, we use it for this very podcast.
We use it to get this show ontoYouTube for the three people
who listen there every week.
So that's a good thing.
But Headliner has all kinds ofvery cool things, both video
support for podcasters,headliner's Eddie, which is a
audio editor, and plenty ofother things.

(12:10):
You caught up with Neil Modi,who's a lovely man and also the
CEO and co-founder of Headliner,and you started off by asking
what is Headliner?

Neil Mody (12:22):
We try to build the easiest ways for people to grow
their podcasts.
So now it's become, I wouldn'tsay a platform, but getting
there basically a suite of toolsthat really help you try to
grow your podcast.
Everything from the smallestpodcaster, the individual kind
of hobbyist, all the way up tosome of the biggest podcast
operations and largeorganizations are using

(12:44):
Headliner to really attract newaudience, either through making
short social videos to postingon YouTube or through our new
product, disco, that helps thembasically take readers of their
website and convert them intopodcast listeners.
And so, yeah, we just keep onbuilding to try to find new
audience for podcasters and thetools come from that mission.

Sam Sethi (13:06):
You got one other product as well in that suite,
which is called Eddie.
What's Eddie?

Neil Mody (13:09):
Basically, what we found is for the social video
tool that we're kind of knownfor, or kind of our main product
since 2018, people startedincreasingly wanting to use the
transcript as a clippingmechanism.
Right, so when you want to finda clip, there's a bunch of ways
to do it.
There's a kind of legacy ways,which is using a waveform which

(13:30):
audio creators are very familiarwith, but for a new podcaster
or a new creator, the waveform'skind of something new that
they're not familiar with and atranscript becomes a much easier
way to figure out what clipsyou want to maybe share to
social.
So Eddie was basically anadd-on product for our
individual creators all the wayup to kind of big media

(13:53):
companies who are trying tofigure out which clips pack with
all the kind of AI powered LLMgenerated social kind of
descriptions, keywords, allsorts of meta information that

(14:14):
helps podcasters kind ofstreamline their workflow as
well.
So it's kind of grown into thistool that's now used by
thousands of podcasters a week.
Actually, it just keeps growing, and so we're kind of lucky to
have it at this point.

Sam Sethi (14:26):
We started using Headliner just for audio
clipping with nice graphics andthrowing that out of social
media.
And then you did the YouTubeintegration and it was like,
okay, well, james and I don't dovideo, but hey, we can put a
still graphic, but we can stillpost automatically.
That's the key to YouTube aswell, and that was great.

(14:47):
I then used it for my own radiostation, river Radio, which was
really useful.
You've also got an analyticsengine built into Headliner, so
this is really good first partydata on who listened to my clip,
which platform listens to myclip, et cetera, et cetera.
So that's really cool.
Is there an open API aroundthat as well that I can use that

(15:09):
with my other analyticsanywhere?

Neil Mody (15:11):
It's a good question.
We don't do it because we'reactually pulling it from the
APIs, from the platforms.
But in terms of the data fromour consumption platform, we
should, we can and should buildthat.
I would say we haven't had theusers who are trying to pull
that in yet.
We're just pulling data fromwhat's out there and already
available.
But on our platform side, it'sactually a very good question

(15:34):
and something we can and shoulddo to the extent that people
want to pull in that information.
We've gotten to some seriousscale now with Disco, and so the
question is for some of thesepublishers using us, we're
bigger than Apple and Spotify interms of audience, and so I
know that's crazy to think aboutin podcasting, but again, their
websites do so much traffic andso our data is actually more

(15:57):
interesting and we're moretransparent about it.
So getting that out in API formis probably useful, but right
now we've been doing the toolingto make it more interesting
than what the hosts provide andthe platforms provide, and
that's kind of what we've beenfocused on.
That's a whole nother topic,but yeah.

Sam Sethi (16:16):
So talk to me about your integration with HubHop Two
parts of the question.
One is talk to me about theHubHopper integration and what
that is, and then, secondly, areyou going to be partnering with
any other hosts as well?

Neil Mody (16:28):
So the HubHopper integration is actually
integrating Eddy, which is thattranscript-based, you know tool
to generate transcripts, all theAI show notes and keywords and
social post copy, et cetera, allthe kind of meta packaging
information, as I like to saycontent, and really enable kind
of meta packaging information,as I like to say content, and
really enable kind of fastclipping all the way over to
make by headliner for the socialposts, etc.

(16:50):
So we integrated, I thinkbecause generally, you know,
gautam kind of saw that youcould and he's a CEO of
HubHopper I think you could seethat we were committed to
building a tool that wouldeasily integrate white label, no
us, which you don't see from alot of people in the industry

(17:10):
but allow their users a quickway to do this instead of
building it all from scratch forthemselves, which, by the way,
I would say most hosts have donefor make with the social
posting tool that we have.
Again, you know, building allthis stuff and supporting all
the different social networks.
It's an ongoing lift right andso focus on what you do best for

(17:31):
the customer, and I think hesaw that as a hosting provider
and I think other hostingproviders have looked at other
companies for this.
We just tend to generally be themost white label and best mix
of cheapest, best and mostaccommodating, and that's what's
led us to dozens ofintegrations and HubHopper is
one of the newest ones and Iwould say more integrations.

(17:54):
I mean we've got a few morecoming and you guys will be the
first to know, but definitelysome more hosts are looking at
these tools because, first ofall, the transcript and getting
it is a cost for the host and we, given our scale, get it much
cheaper than anybody else and wepass that back to our host and
then staying up on all the LLMsand all the things that they can

(18:18):
do is its own engineeringeffort.
So we've taken that away andthe host can focus on building
the best hosting platformconnecting with all the actual
consumption platforms.
We'll take care of this forthem, neil.

Sam Sethi (18:30):
I had one question I really wanted to ask you and I
think you'd be perfect foranswering the question.
The big debate right now isSpotify video and YouTube.
Video versus audio.
What constitutes a podcast?
Spotify talking about shows,changing it from spotify for
podcasters creators, given thatyou are one of the biggest now

(18:51):
out producing clippings andvideos and everything else,
where is your head around themarket, around spotify, youtube
and podcasting?

Neil Mody (18:59):
it's an excellent question, I would say.
I would like to see thecreators and the consumers
decide and I think they'velargely decided that for some
genre of podcasts, namelyinterview podcasts, you can
attract an audience better onvideo than you can on audio,

(19:23):
attract again, bring them in thedoor and then the hope is, over
time, you can retain thembetter, I believe, on audio
rather than video.
It's early there, but that'sthe data I'm seeing, and so for
a company like YouTube andSpotify, that's what they need
to do.
Well, youtube was already there.
Spotify needed to grow intothat.

(19:45):
Again, this is kind of remnantsof what happened with the Joe
Rogan deal and his numbers.
Again, I like to point out, joeRogan, even when he was
exclusive on Spotify, had moresubscribers they still call it
subscribers on YouTube thanfollowers on Spotify.
Okay, so you have an exclusiveshow on Spotify that actually

(20:07):
has more subscribers followers,whatever you want to call them
on a different platform thatdoesn't even have the show
anymore, and at some point youhave to ask yourself what is the
strategy?
And they figured out we're notgoing to keep these shows closed
.
And now the question is ifvideo is where people want to
consume this stuff, we have tosupport it.
So the question is, whathappens to narrative fiction

(20:29):
podcasts, comedy podcasts, etc.
I think interview podcasts,generally speaking, again to
attract audience you almost needto do video, and that class has
moved there to attract audienceagain to keep them different
story.
But I think we're all in thebusiness of trying to find more
audience as creators and videos,kind of piece of that for sure

(20:51):
at this point and of all yourend points that you spread clips
to, which is the most activecoming back?
I'd have to check the data.
I actually think it's youtube.
We have the most data fromyoutube.
We publish to youtube more thanany other platform.
I believe Social social is anawareness play more than a click
through, kind of, to finalconsumption.

(21:13):
When you get someone listeningon YouTube, they generally want
to dig deeper and making thatavailable is useful.
And I think three, four yearsago probably, you and I had a
conversation.
Most of the podcast industry wasanti-YouTube, maybe a little
more than three, four years ago.
Maybe four, five years ago,five, six years ago.
They were anti-YouTube and, toyour point, earlier, you got to

(21:36):
go where audience is.
If you want to grow audienceI'm sure you're tired of hearing
me say this and maybe some ofthe audiences podcasting is
still really small.
There's 5 billion people online.
There's only 500 millionlistening to podcasts.
That's one-tenth.
500 million to 5 billion that'sone-tenth.
So nine out of 10 people onlinehaven't listened to a podcast.

(21:58):
So between Meta and YouTube, ifyou're not posting to those two
platforms that's half theinternet you're not getting to
Right Like easily, easily Noware you going to get discovered
there?
You know, I think those debatesare valid, like, hey, how big
can this get for me and all thatstuff, but to not be there at
all, I think, again, that's justa mistake from a customer

(22:21):
acquisition.
If it's a strategy decision,monetization decision, hey
that's all good.
But to say you're not going toget audience on the biggest
platforms, you know, would younot want to be on Google search
in any way, shape or form?
That's basically what you'rekind of saying, right, and I
think that has handicappedpodcasting to some extent, and I
think we're just growing out ofthat.

(22:42):
And video, I think similarly forsome class of shows, to the
extent that people arecomfortable with it.
And yes, I know it sucks to getcamera ready and all those
kinds of things and you'll bejudged in a different way.
But hey, this is what theaudience wants, as Spotify has
done all the data and researchon, and YouTube knows all too
well, and this is where creatorsare going, and so you either

(23:06):
embrace it or you buck the trendand keep the audience where you
want, and that's totally finetoo.
There's always going to be amarket for only audio
consumption, but clearly, togrow videos are a component of
it and we've been saying thatfor a long time.
As you know, the internet is avisual medium first and you need
to hook people visually beforeyou can hook them with your

(23:29):
audio and Headliner's kind ofbeen at the forefront of that
for six, seven years now.

Sam Sethi (23:35):
Remind everyone very quickly if they want to go and
find out more about Headliner,where do I go?

Neil Mody (23:40):
Headliner.
The best place to find us isheadlinerapp.
So on the web, headlinerapp,headlinerapp, and then all the
socials.
I think we've got somedifferent handles, but you'llapp
and then all the socials.
I think we've got somedifferent handles, but you'll
find us and me directly.
If you want, best place toreach me is actually email.
I'm kind of old school neilN-E-I-L at headlinerapp.

Sam Sethi (24:00):
Neil, thanks so much mate.

Neil Mody (24:01):
Thank you, Sam.

Neil Modi, the CEO of Headliner.
There is, of course, a fullversion.
Plenty more to listen to in thePod News Extra feed, including
Neil talking aboutinterview-only shows and video
and also talking about the factthat podcasting is still
relatively small as well.
You'll find the Pod News Extrapodcast wherever you found this

(24:25):
one.

Sam Sethi (24:26):
Now, another company that we have a fondness for is
RSScom friends of the show,alberto and Ben, and they
announced a few weeks ago thatthey had successfully got a
patent for AI-driven scalableads.
It's the idea to allow you toreplicate hosts' authentic
voices and then customize thosewith contextual data.

(24:48):
So hello, good morning, goodafternoon, good evening.
Rather than re-recording that,I caught up with Alberto Botella
to ask him about the patent.
But I also, in this interview,learnt a few things James,
prosodic features,monodirectional and parasocial
relationships, james, hey, andsomething he called empathetic
AI.

(25:09):
He's a super smart man, alberto.
I don't know if you remember,but he's got a PhD in this stuff
.
Yeah, he's got a PhD.
I've got a little MBA nothinguseful there but he's got a big,
big old PhD.
But I started off by chattingwith Alberto and I said you've
got a patent, alberto.
What's in the patent?

It's a patent on voice cloning or voice
mimicking to produceprogrammatic ads for audio
podcasts and broadcasts ingeneral, so it's very nice.
We filed it in November 2021,so it literally took three years
for it to be approved.
It was a lot of to and fromwith the reviewer, but we're

(25:52):
very happy to have this as apatent, so very excited.

Sam Sethi (25:56):
Why did you start to put this patent together?
What was the thinking about it?

Well, the original thinking was an idea
that came from Ben, who is myco-founder.
He went to a conference, gotthe idea and we noticed there
was no prior art specificallypatenting this idea.
So we thought it would be niceto pursue it, and really the
main goal initially was for Benand I to have a badge to be

(26:24):
inventors.
We never filed nor got a patentbefore, so we thought back in
2021 or even before, we thoughtwe should do that.
And yeah, so that was the firstdriver.
The second one was that we feelwe are a tech company, but most
of the time we are labeled as apodcast hosting company, where
hosting per se is not a cuttingedge solution.

(26:47):
People use third party serviceslike AWS, CloudFront.
So really it was a statementfor us to be there and say you
know, we are also buildingtechnology and we have a patent
on the market.
So really the first drive waslet's get a badge.
You know, you get a collegedegree, you get a degree and a
patent is one of the things wedidn't have, and so we are very

(27:07):
happy on a personal level.
But then we saw there was aneed for something like this in
the industry.

Sam Sethi (27:13):
So now you've got the patent, where do you see it
being used?
I mean, are RSS going to dothis?
Is it a third party thing?
How do you think you're goingto enable people to use the
patent that you've got?
Or how are you going to use thepatent that you've got?

use the patent that you've got, or how are you
going to use the patent thatyou've got?
So the patent itself is goingto be commercialized with the
business name ghostai g-o-s-tai,which is actually also the
website you can look at, and theidea is either building it
ourselves sooner than later, orlicense it if we find a great

(27:53):
partner.
Actually, this interview today,perhaps it's going to be very
useful to throw a stone outthere and see if someone picks
it up and comes back.
So the idea is building, butpartnering would be also a great
option, just for the sake ofspeed.
But really, what we've seen inmany occasions the use of
text-to-speech to generate ads,contextual ads, so that you can

(28:17):
use placeholders, like you saidgood morning, good afternoon.
Good morning New York, goodmorning Chicago, good evening LA
.
So I think this is just anatural evolution where, instead
of using a generictext-to-speech voice, you can
create a model of the host.
This would be done with thefull approval of the host, so

(28:37):
following all the ethicalguidelines, the FTC guidelines.
So, really, this is not aboutcloning a voice without consent
and using it to, let's say, foolthe listeners.
On the contrary, it's atechnology that is going to
streamline the workflows forpodcasters.
They want something close tohost thread ads, but they don't

(28:58):
want to invest the time thatoften is required for host
thread ads, especially when theyneed variants, many variants.
So really, I clone my voice andthen, using scripts of
advertisement, they can begenerated programmatically in
the thousands or hundreds ofthousands with no effort except

(29:19):
cloning my voice for a fewminutes initially.

Sam Sethi (29:22):
It also works very well, I guess, when you want to
do internationalization.
So if you wanted to do a scriptand then put that into a
foreign language again, therewas no limits or bounds there, I
guess.

Absolutely.
That's one of the best parts ofthe patent and of the
technology per se.
So when you clone a voice, theunderlying mechanisms are based
on voice features and thesefeatures are called prosodic
features.
For example, the accent like myaccent the intonation, the

(29:55):
pitch, the rhythm.
These are prosodic features,and prosodic features are what
make my voice, or your voice,you know, the personal voice,
right?
So it's not just the so-calledutterance.
The utterance is, you know, thebasic speech, but really these
extra features are what makes avoice more personal.

(30:16):
And that's exactly what we aregoing to be doing.
We are going to be mimicking oreven cloning 100% the voice so
that the listeners can identifythemselves more, they can be
more engaged because they'vebeen listening to a host, they
trust them, and so if there issomething which resembles their
voice, unconsciously, it is moreengaging.

(30:39):
It doesn't mean you're foolingthem again, but it's just.
You know, instead of skippingthe ads, naturally you are more
prone to listening to it, andthat's really where the
technology taps into.

Sam Sethi (30:49):
Recently, you presented something called
empathetic applications.
What are empatheticapplications, Alberto?

Okay, that's very interesting.
This is something I've beenworking firsthand in a previous
life.
I was for almost seven years inacademia doing my PhD
specifically on this topic.
Academia, doing my PhDspecifically on this topic.
Actually, my specialization isaffective computing.
That is a discipline that wascreated in 1992 with a book from

(31:25):
Rosalind Picard at MIT MediaLab, but later on it has been
called also emotion AI.
Nowadays everyone wants to usethe AI.
You know AI everywhere, so, butsubstantially, what this is,
emotion AI is machines that caninterpret, read, convey and even
induce emotion to the listener,to the user.

(31:48):
So the application of these areinfinite, literally, and there
can be good application and badapplication.
But among the good applicationsis interfaces that understand
how the users feel and adapt tothem so that it's a better user
experience, and also mentalhealth, digital mental health

(32:10):
application.
You know, and you can go allthe way to speaking with someone
who's not here anymore.
Some people already clonedAlbert Einstein voice and we can
go there and go intophilosophical conversations very
soon.
But really, emotion AIleverages emotions and therefore
prosodic features in a voice toconvey something and to make

(32:32):
this message and narrative moreengaging.

Sam Sethi (32:35):
Are you introducing an element of emotion, and how?
I mean, how will I feel moreemotion to what is clearly an AI
?

machine.
Okay, so this is deeply rootedin how our brain works.
So what you're tapping there isreally some circuit, for
example the limbic system in thebrain.
Let me step back is that thereis a concept in psychology that
we all know.
Maybe we don't know how it'scalled, but we know the concept

(33:07):
and it's called parasocialrelationship.
And it's called parasocialrelationship.
It was created in the mid-50s,especially with the media
growing TV, radio and parasocialrelationship means that a host
of a TV show, of a radio show,of a podcast or even a
personality on social media hasthis unique relationship with

(33:31):
their listener and followers,but is a mono-directional
relationship, meaning the hostdoesn't know the followers at
the personal level.
But followers, especially aftera while following the host,
feel the host is their friend.
They know details and nuancesof the host's life that the host

(33:54):
maybe doesn't even remember hementioned or they mentioned at
all.
So this is called parasocialrelationship.
And the parasocial relationshipis, after all, an emotion, it's
intimacy, it's feeling close tosomeone and therefore you feel
you can, can speak, you feel youcan open to them.
And that's why, when you clone avoice or you mimic a voice you

(34:17):
could just have, I don't insteadof cloning completely.
You, sam, as a host, you maywant to opt for a british accent
, a certain male, certain agerange.
That's mimicking.
But closer the outcome, thevoice is to the original host,
the higher this parasocialrelationship taps into the

(34:42):
listener and therefore thelistener feels that's the
emotion part.
They feel that the messagethey're receiving is close to
them.
Does it make sense?

Sam Sethi (34:53):
It does.
Yeah, I've heard James do aversion of Pod News Daily in
Spanish and I've heard him do itin Italian, and I can hear the
intonation of James's voice,which gives me an element of, as
you say, the parasocial, isgiving me a trust level.
I know James.
He knows what he's talkingabout when it comes to

(35:14):
podcasting.
I don't understand exactly whathe's saying in Italian or
French, but I do know that it isJames, so there's a level of
trust and that's, I guess, whatyou're introducing with Ghost is
the fact that it's not just aAI, unknown voice which I have
no relationship to.
You're introducing a host voicethat I have a relationship to

(35:38):
through this parasocialrelationship.

This is precisely what we address with
our patent and the technology.
That's precisely that.

Sam Sethi (35:48):
Alberto, thank you so much.
If people want to find outabout ghost ads, where would
they go?
Let's start there.

They would go to ghostai G-O-S-T.

Sam Sethi (35:57):
And if they want to find out more about what rsscom
is doing with its podcasting 2.0and the dynamic ad insertions,
where would you go?

Well, you could go to rsscom.
But also, if you are curiousabout the day-to-day and what we
create, you can go tochangelogrsscom.
This is where you really seeour daily operations and how our
product evolves Amazing,Alberto thank you so much, my
friend.
Speak to you soon, thank you.
Speak to you soon.
Thank you for inviting me.

Alberto Patella from rsscom.
I'm an advisor to the company.
Just to let you know and thereis a longer interview from that
in the Pod News Extra feed, incase you want to learn about
monetization models inpodcasting and value for value
and what he thinks of Spotify'snewly announced ad-free
podcasting initiative as well,it's all in the Pod News Extra

(36:48):
podcast and you can find thatwherever you get this one.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
The Pod News Weekly Review.
With Buzz Sprout Podcasthosting made easy.

Sam Sethi (36:58):
Moving on, james, there was a report in Pod News
Daily about podfades, so it washow bad is podfade?
The phenomenon where podcastersstop podcasting?
So, james, how bad is podfade?

podcasting.
So, James, how bad is Podfade?
So I looked at the podcastindex data for January and
February of this year because Ithought I wonder how many
podcasts started in Januaryturns out 25,000, and how many
stopped posting new episodes bythe end of February.
And it turns out that of the25,000 podcasts that started in
January, 7,000, more than 7,000,haven't posted a new episode

(37:38):
since the end of February.
So 30% of people podfaded inless than two months, which I
found fascinating.
And it's not who you think it is.
I thought it'll be Anchor,it'll be Spotify.
For creators, it'll be theirfault.
So it turns out that it's thepodcast hosting companies, the

(38:13):
paid podcast hosting companieswith the free trials, that show
the highest levels.
So I imagine that that's peoplewho have started podcasting,
who have got into month numbertwo, they haven't got the
numbers that they're expectingand then all of a sudden they're
being asked to pay, and Isuspect it's those two things at
the same time actually meansthat it ends up being pretty

(38:35):
high.
So RSScom 71% of their showspod faded in that time.
Spreaker 40%, and that waspretty interesting data and it
occurs to me that what I coulddo is go back to that data and

(38:56):
use that data as a new shows onthese podcast platforms as a
ranker for every single month,and that might be interesting to
go and take a look at as well.

Sam Sethi (39:07):
No, I think that would be fascinating, because I
was going to ask you whathappened in February, march,
april, may, and is there a trend?
I mean again not asking you todo too much more work, but is
there a trend over years?
Is this, you know, a normal.
I'm bored at Christmas, let'sget a new microphone for
Christmas.
Oh, let's start a podcast, andthen, oh, that's hard work, I'm
not going to bother doing thatagain.

Now the only problem with this data is, of
course, that some podcasthosting companies I believe
Buzzsprout, our sponsor doesthis.
They delete free accounts whenthe free trial ends, so
therefore they won't appear onthe data as I've downloaded it
now.
So perhaps what I should bedoing is downloading the data on
the first of the month andlooking at the previous two

(39:48):
months and actually seeing whathappens there.
That would require me to beorganised and so therefore
that's never going to happen,but I quite like that.
So therefore you know, otherpodcast hosting companies may be
a little bit higher in terms ofthat, but just so that you know
the top five companies with newshows in January Spotify for

(40:10):
Creators, at number one, rsscomat number two, so well done
RSScom.
Buzzsprout at number three Welldone, our sponsor Spreaker at
number four and Acast at numberfive.
Which was surprising, inbetween all of those five, they
attracted 60% of new shows inthat month.
So how consolidated ispodcasting?
Well, 60% is done by the topfive podcast hosting companies.

(40:35):
So that was quite a thing too.

Sam Sethi (40:38):
That could be even skewed further, because how much
is Spotify of that 60% taking?

Well, yes, indeed , how much of Spotify is that
60% taking?
I mean, I could tell you thatnumber if you wanted to know,
but yeah, I mean I think thatthere's definitely you know
something there in terms of that, of the 25,000 shows that

(41:04):
started in January, 7,000started with Spotify, 2,500 with
rsscom, 2,400 withbuzzsproutcom.
So you can very clearly seethat Spotify is still doing
incredibly well, but, yeah, soreally interesting numbers.
I'd not considered using thepodcast index data in that way,

(41:26):
but that was something that Ifound quite interesting, I
thought.

Sam Sethi (41:29):
Is Podfade?
Only because you know theyrealised that just rocking up to
a mic isn't just rocking up toa mic, but there's all the other
stuff you have to do, which is,you know, promotion and
post-production, editing and allthe other bits.
Or is it a case of oh, I'm notgoing to get Joe Rogan levels of
audience and I'm not gettingpaid, so I can't be bothered?

(41:50):
What do you think pod fadehappens for?

I think there's a load of different reasons.
I think, firstly, it's peoplejust not getting the numbers
that they were expecting.
I think it's another thing isit's an awful lot of work to put
together a podcast, to find theright people to interview, if
you're doing an interview show,to do the research, and blah,
blah, blah, and so quite a lotof people don't get the workflow

(42:13):
right.
And one of the things that I'vebeen doing a lot of podcasts on
recently has been about workflowand making sure that you get
that workflow right.
If you're working on a newproject and I don't think that
quite a lot of podcasters dothat and then obviously now it's
even worse because people aresitting there going well, I've
got to do video, haven't I, ifI'm doing a podcast, and so then

(42:33):
they're investing in camerasand lights and you know, and all
that, and so it gets even morecomplicated for them.
So you know I mean I think youcan have a look at the numbers
very clearly you see that a lotof podcasters actually give up
after doing one or two episodes.
I mean, it really is as simpleas that.

(42:55):
So it's a case of just makingsure that you start and
consistently go on withsomething that you can actually
do on a consistent basis, andI'm sure that a lot of people
suddenly realise that producinga podcast isn't quite as easy as
just hitting record talkingnonsense for an hour and a half

(43:18):
and then hitting the publishbutton.
I know that some people do that, but most of the time it's much
more complicated.

Sam Sethi (43:25):
Now one of the other things that, of course, is
coming out.
Now.
We are beginning to see twothings One is the prediction
shows and one is the uh podcastlists of the most popular
podcasts of 2024, and now apple,of course, have put their list
out, and you did some extra workwith that, though, james, so
tell me more about the list fromapple first, and then what

(43:46):
you've done yes.

So the only thing that apple did is they released
a press release which had theus um top top 10 shows on there
and a few other charts that theyput together, which is very
Apple podcast.
If you look at their Twitteraccount, for example, it's all
US stuff.
They seem to really only careabout the US.
So I thought wouldn't it bemore useful if as I've done in

(44:10):
previous years, to be fair Iwent through and had a look at
all of the other charts thatwere available?
It's much, much easier nowbecause Apple Podcasts has a web
interface which you can have alook at this information in, as
long as you defeat some of theclever stuff that Apple has done
on there, some of the cleverstuff that Apple has done on

(44:31):
there.
So I had a list of theEnglish-speaking countries and
then a link to as many of thecharts that I could actually
find.
I went through every singlecountry in the world.
I only found 33 chartsavailable in the Apple Podcasts
app.
The Apple Podcasts PR said over100 territories.
It's not, it's only 33.

(44:52):
They never thought anyone wouldcheck.
I know.
I have a feeling that that isexactly the case.
I did ask Apple whether or notI'd made a mistake or something,
but of course heard nothingback, because why would Apple
bother to reply to any of theemails that I send them

(45:32):
no-transcript.
So you go into the Netherlands,for example, norway, sweden
they don't have any chartswhatsoever.
Mexico, yes, poland, yes,seemingly an awful lot from the
Arab states as well Qatar, saudiArabia, bahrain, you know all

(45:57):
of those places Kuwait all ofthose places have lots of charts
.
But then you have a look at youknow Thailand has one, but
there's none from thePhilippines, there's none from
Indonesia, and so on and soforth.
So I just found it reallyinteresting I'm not quite sure
what it says, but I just foundit really interesting the

(46:18):
editorial focus of the ApplePodcasts team which countries
that they had bothered to putcharts together for and which
they just hadn't bothered at all, and, of course, where Apple
Podcasts isn't actuallyavailable because, surprise.
And of course, where applepodcast isn't actually available
because, surprise, surprise,actually apple podcast isn't
available in a bunch of placeswhich I was unaware of.

(46:38):
So, um, yeah, so that was, um.
That was an interestingexperience going through um, all
190, you know countries in theworld and seeing where the,
where the charts actually were.

Sam Sethi (46:50):
You'll be presenting at the UN next if you keep doing
this.
Now I think we've talked onthis show about how, outside of
the English-speaking countries,how Apple's penetration has been
reducing, how Spotify'sincreased, and certainly in the
countries where Android is thepredominant phone of choice
because of price.

(47:10):
Then Apple doesn't actuallyappear anywhere really.

Yeah, no indeed.
And you know, and the Applepodcasts on the web thing isn't
a proper PWA, so still doesn'twork properly on Android phones.
Still looks as if it's just awebsite.

Sam Sethi (47:30):
It's one line of code and I have.
They only get the coder for onetime a year.

You know that they only get the Coda for one
time a year.
You know that.
Well, I did tell somebody atApple Podcasts that in August
and I reminded them last weekand they said, oh, thanks for
the reminder.
So, who knows, they might fixit at some point.
But yeah, but it would make fora useful thing.
Yeah, I do look at ApplePodcasts and I think there are

(47:57):
so many good things that ApplePodcasts does, but there are so
many things that Apple you kindof wish that they would move a
little bit faster on.
Video is another interestingthing where obviously the Apple
Podcasts app supports video butthey never promote it and it
might just be that they don'tconsider it to be a good enough

(48:18):
user experience, and perhapsthey're right.
But you know, yeah, I do findApple Podcasts, you know, a
little bit weird from that pointof view.

Sam Sethi (48:27):
I'm excited for the new feature we get next year,
whatever it is, because we onlyget one, but I'm excited.
I am excited.
I don't know what they're goingto give us, but I am excited
now um other ones that are thereon the lists pod track have got
their top podcast by countryjames.
That's just been recentlyupdated for october.
That was quite a good listactually.

(48:47):
I went through that um lookingat different countries.
That was quite nice, yeahthey're not bad.

They um, part of the data is estimated and so, or
in other words, made up, and soit's not necessarily perfect,
but it's a useful you know viewinto some of those countries, so
it's worth a peek.
Magellan AI also has released aranker as well, but this time

(49:12):
it's a ranker for top podcastadvertisers.
So T-Mobile at number three,BetterHelp at number two, Amazon
at number one.
The biggest movers this month,interestingly Robinhood, who are
an investment company, so youcan buy stocks and shares with
that, and AI company Anthropic.

(49:32):
Are they the people that ownOpenAI or is that different?

Sam Sethi (49:35):
No, no, anthropic are basically perplexity, oh right.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, they were the secondbiggest mover, ie, they spent
much more in October than theydid in September, which I
thought you know.
That's just interesting An AIcompany actually spending big
bucks in terms of, you know, interms of podcast advertising.

(50:03):
Magellan AI also has a webinar.
Interestingly, magellan AI alsothis week became the latest
company to be compliant with IABpodcast measurement guidelines.
They are version 2.2 compliantas of this week, which I think
they're joining PodScribe, whichis another.

(50:24):
They do attribution, as doesPodScribe, obviously.
So I think that's interestingseeing that they are jumping in.
And, as we mentioned yesterday,we learned that there are a few
companies who will be removedfrom that IAB measurement
guidelines list by the end ofthe year because they have

(50:46):
chosen not to recertify.
So the IAB won't tell us whothey are, but we do know that
some companies are going awayfrom that list.
So there's a thing.

Sam Sethi (50:53):
Yeah, we've also got Time magazine have produced a
top 10.
I like looking at these top 10sonly because it's often
different ones in the top 10rather than the normal same old,
same old.
So that gives you just aperspective.
Going back to what you saidabout lots and lots of other
people in the industry talkingabout Spotify YouTube video Mark

(51:15):
Asquith, on his show with DannyBrown in and around podcasting,
had a really good discussionabout it.
Harry Duran has had a reallyinteresting insight into what
Ariel said, so he's responded.
John McDermott from CalarogaShark Media had a good post as
well.
If you want to go and read lotsof interesting comments,

(51:35):
there's a lot of people outthere, james Bishop being
another one.
So I think people are havingconversations now around Spotify
.
What we were talking about lastweek YouTube and the direction
of the industry.
I suppose it's the end of theyear people thinking about
what's happened and what's goingforward for 25.

Yeah, I think you know.
One of the things I do worryabout is, you know, I mean James
Bishop, for example.
He posted this long screedabout why I believe YouTube will
dominate podcasting in 2025.
And he's sitting theredribbling about how wonderful
YouTube is and you know, and howmany people use YouTube and
it's great for monetization andit's great for community
building and all of that stuff.

(52:14):
And get your bleeper on theready because I'm about to drop
an F-bomb.
But I replied to his breathlessexcitement about how YouTube is
the future and I said if YouTubeleads podcasting, then heaven
help us, because you've f***edthe entire industry.
I replied to him.
I did notice that noprogrammatic ads dependent on

(52:37):
Google's algorithm, run bypeople who don't care about
podcasting, massively increasingpodcasting's costs with video
editorial control, with big techin America and plenty of other
dumb, stupid ideas.
If you want, I said, podcastingto retreat into 5% of all
YouTube views and to lose thebenefit of a multitasking medium

(52:58):
like an audio podcast, then goahead.
But when podcasting dies andthe entire industry falls over
and closes, don't say youweren't warned.
We should be fighting YouTube'sapparent ascendancy, certainly
not giving bad hot takes in amisguided chase for LinkedIn
hits.

Sam Sethi (53:14):
Anyway, 42 likes I do love it when you sit on the
fence.
I so love it.

And a bunch of people.
Irene Hume, a friend of theshow from the Game Changers
podcast, saying well said.
Andrew Menzel from Piccolopodcasts 100% agree, and so on.
Shrikant Joshi, saying Iunderstand your frustration, but
I think YouTube's ascendancy ispractically inevitable as
things currently stand.

(53:41):
I feel you are missing a keypoint.
The dominant platform is notchosen by the creators, it's
chosen by the audience, and Ithink I responded correct.
But the creators do have a sayas well, and we can sit on our
hands and do nothing and letfools give away the entire
industry to YouTube and Spotify.
It's really up to us, but itjust worries me that we are just

(54:06):
lying back and going okay,YouTube and okay, Spotify to a
degree, but okay YouTubeparticularly.
Come, know, come and steal allof our stuff, Come and do
whatever you like to ourbusiness.
We'll all be out of business ifpodcasting turns into YouTube.

Sam Sethi (54:24):
Well, we've got a WhatsApp group that I'm on with
quite a few hosts.

It's a secret WhatsApp group I don't get to go
in.

Sam Sethi (54:34):
You have been invited and never responded, may I add?
Have I Okay?
Check your inbox, Mr Cridland.

I bet I have them .
Anyway, go on.

Sam Sethi (54:46):
Anyway, you will find one soon after that.
What was interesting, robBreenley was talking about the
whole of the YouTube Spotifydiscussion and he said I do
wonder if we've gone past thepoint of no return on adoption
of these new RSS ideas and thebig platforms have won the
market.
So that was one view of it.
He was talking about Applebeing missing in action, which

(55:10):
we know, and not putting videoforward, which we know and not
putting video forward.
And then Todd came in and I gotslightly annoyed because
there's a new tag that's beingput forward called content links
, and I understand why certainpeople want that tag.
It works well for theirbusiness.
I get it.

(55:30):
Not all tags are going to besomething that, with my True
Fattens hat on, that we are toimplement, and this is one is
one we won't, because what it isis, instead of using the
alternative enclosure, todd issaying no, we'll put content
links for Spotify and YouTubewithin the RSS feed and
therefore, when you land on anypodcasting 2.0 app that supports
the content links tag, guesswhat?

(55:51):
You'll get a big, beautifulSpotify and YouTube logo and
then the person will just clickthere to watch video.
And I went well, you've got twochances me putting that fat
chance and no chance, becauseI'm not driving traffic to them
and I went.
And why are you driving trafficto them?
Why are you?
I said, as far as I can see,hosts are turkeys voting for
Christmas right now.

(56:12):
Anyone who implements this?
Because our turkeys voting forchristmas right now?
Anyone who implements this?
Because all you're saying iswe're not going to do video,
we're not going to support thealternative enclosure, we're
just going to point links andjust drive all our traffic and
we're still going to give themthe rss and, as you said, we're
just watching them suck the datain.
And there's no response, zeroresponse from hosts at all to
this yeah, it's, um, it's, it's,it's.

It's really interesting watching.
It's like a large ocean liner.
We're sailing towards aniceberg and nobody seems to care
.
Everybody can see the icebergand they're going.
Brilliant.
Look, there's an iceberg.
Nothing else is going on.
We're not making any decisionbecause we have no industry

(56:58):
trade association.
That is, a global associationabout podcasting.
There may be some about podcastads, but there's none about
podcasting to actually turnaround and say, no, this is not
what we want as an industry.
You know, I find it fascinating.
John McDermott comes up with alot of great stuff.

(57:20):
He also links to us an awfullot from Kalaroga Shark Media.
He says a bunch of really goodthings in the postings that he
is making and again, he's veryfocused on making sure that it's
not just handing everythingover to YouTube and handing

(57:41):
everything over to YouTube andSpotify.
It's more than that.
So, yeah, it does make me quiteweary about some of the
industry where we can just sitback and just wait for us to be,
you know, speared by theiceberg and then start sinking

(58:08):
and then we'll go oh, I'm reallyglad that they're sinking our
entire industry.

Sam Sethi (58:12):
It frustrates me.
I think you know we've talkedabout it.
Maybe are they are the ones whoare there.
Let's say there's 10 or 15hosts I don't know the number
exactly.
Are they going?
Oh well, those six have gone,so we'll get a few more percent
from the ones that have left.
Uh, and not saying that they'regoing to go to spotify.
Is it the last man standingstrategy?

(58:34):
Because I don't know if that'swhat they're going for.
Yes, I Spotify.
Is it the last man standingstrategy?
Because I don't know if that'swhat they're going for.

Yes, I mean it might be that I had a good chat
with Ben Richardson from rsscomrecently about this sort of
thing, where he was worried thatthe age of collaborative growth
in the industry had gone.
And if you remember back whenAcast were, you know, sending
everybody emails saying youshould be switching to Acast's

(58:58):
hosting hosting, by the way,which they have very, very much
ramped back in the last coupleof weeks you know that was
rightly, you know, seen as a badthing because it wasn't the way
that the industry had worked inthe past.
But now, when you have a lookat Spotify, a lot of their

(59:22):
revenue generation tools areonly available if you host on
the Spotify for Creatorsplatform.
They are promoting thatplatform as often as they
possibly can to you if they'rethere.
And, yeah, maybe that thecollaborative world has finished
.
Chris Peterson from DownloadMedia wrote a blog post this

(59:42):
week which I linked to yesterday.
This strategy, he says, feelscompletely one-sided, talking
about Spotify, focused ongrowing Spotify's premium
product rather than growing thepodcast industry, and I think
that is the entire point.
And the more that we see ofthat going on, the more
concerned that I get about wherethis industry is going.

Sam Sethi (01:00:03):
I don't know where it will stop, but at the moment I
can't see the Spotify juggernautchanging direction at any time.
Moving on, then James awardsand events what's been happening
?

James Cridlan (01:00:15):
Yes, you can clearly see that YouTube are
slightly worried about Spotify'sbig announcements about video
because YouTube, just days afterthat big announcement from
Spotify, youtube comes to me andsays we are running an online
Q&A session on December the 12thwith Kai Chuck and Steve
McClendon.

(01:00:35):
Apparently they will bespilling the tea, whatever
that's supposed to mean.
They will be talking aboutplatform updates and answering
your burning questions, andStephanie Chan will also join
them, who is a strategic partnermanager for YouTube podcasts.
That's free.
If you want to take part inthat December the 12th, you'll
find all of the details on thePod News website.
So funny that YouTube all of asudden is talking to its

(01:00:59):
creators as well, but I wouldimagine that the podcasting
accounts for about 2.5% of allYouTube plays.
I can't see them caring toomuch about it, to be frank.
But there we are, and if you'rea journalist in Europe, then you
should be at least consideringtaking part in the European

(01:01:20):
Podcast Academy.
It's in Milan, in Italy.
It's in mid-March.
It's a five-day educationalevent dedicated to advancing the
art of podcasting.
They plan to have a bunch ofreally good speakers there.
Now, the event is free, but ifyou are taking part as a
journalist and there are variousthings that you have to do in

(01:01:42):
order to take part.
They don't pay youraccommodation and they don't pay
your travel, but if you can getto Milan and you are chosen as
one of the journalists who getto take part in this, then the
European Podcast Academy mightbe for you Slightly frustrating
that they've called it the nameof something which is an
entirely different organisationin the US, but still there.

(01:02:05):
We are More details on that, ofcourse, on the Pod News website
.
The Tech Stuff on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the Pod News
newsletter.

Sam Sethi (01:02:20):
Here's where Sam talks technology, so let's kick
this off then.
Olby appears to be shuttingdown its remaining lightning
wallets, pushing people towardsthe Olby hub.
That was the announcement.
Boomi, when I posted that on toMastodon, came back pretty
quickly.
So Boomi is the CEO of Albi.
He said Legacy shared Albiwallets will be discontinued in

(01:02:42):
January 2025 in favor of thebrand new Albi hub.
Users are getting migrated tothe new system.
No feed will break and therewill be some changes for the
users.
It's actually getting better,more scalable and future-proof,
and to that I say no, no, no, no, yes that's nonsense.

Yes, I'm sorry.

Sam Sethi (01:03:03):
I'm not Sorry.

I love Boomi dearly, but no, that is absolute
10,500 sats for you to sit andrun an Albi hub in the cloud.
10,500 sats per month.
What's that?
That's about $10, somethinglike that is it.
I'm just making that up.

Sam Sethi (01:03:25):
It's not expensive if you're a company.
It's not expensive if you are abusiness, but it's absolutely
ridiculous if you're anindividual.

Yeah, yeah, so that doesn't work now.
Yes, you can run it on your own, you know, on your own system
and all of that kind of stuff.
That's absolutely fine.
But, um, yeah, it's, it's.
You know what a shame that, um,essentially the company that
was responsible in many ways forum, the whole streaming sats,

(01:03:54):
stuff in terms of podcasting,appears to have changed their
mind and closing pretty well allof that down and killing all of
that stuff.

Sam Sethi (01:04:05):
Well, I mean, I wouldn't go that far.
I had a conversation with acouple of people about using the
Albie Hub.
So, obviously, I had aconversation with Alberto.
I've had a conversation withRussell from Pod 2.
I've had a conversation withRussell from Pod2.
I've had a conversation with afew other people.
Now Russell sorry, russell atPod2 is going to, you know still
use the Albi Hub and it's abusiness, and so is RSScom, and

(01:04:27):
so it's true, fans, we will allstay using the Albi Hub, we'll
still use the API.
What I think is crazy is we weretalking about, you know, if it
was my wife, who is technicalbut doesn't understand a thing
about sats and micropayments,and she was going to come to a

(01:04:48):
decision to start an Albee Hub,even I, james, find it.
As somebody who I think isfairly technical, I still don't
understand why I've got multiplechannels.
I don't know why it's 250,000sats and not 150,000.
I just don't get it.
I just follow the to-do listand I go okay, it worked.
But I have no idea why, letalone somebody who's a what I

(01:05:10):
would call normie, who has nounderstanding of the technology
or even wants to use satsbecause they didn't even have a
why statement.
I posted something this weekwhich was in the podcasting 2.0
community.
We understand what and how.
So what is a sat?
How do we implement it withwallets?
We get that.
We've all been working on itfor two years.
I still think we don't have thewhy statement.

No, I agree.
I mean the why is a technicalanswer, which is that
micropayments don't work with,you know, in inverted commas,
proper money, but that's not awhy for the user, that's a why
for us, you know Exactly.
So, yeah, no, I would agreewith that, and I also think it's
highly confusing because, inone side, we are saying, don't

(01:05:57):
worry, you're not investing inthe stock market, you're not
investing in Bitcoin, by, youknow, turning some money into
sats, but on the other side,their sats have gone up in value
by 45% over the last month.
That's how much Bitcoin hasincreased.
So, all of a sudden, actually,you've got that complication as
well, in that sometimes peoplewill see the SATs in their

(01:06:21):
wallet increase or the value oftheir money increase, sometimes
they will see it decrease, andso they've got that to bear in
mind as well.
I mean the whole thing, um, it'sit's it's quite frustrating,

(01:06:42):
isn't it?
Um?
And you look at things like, um, you look at some of the tools,
um, that are out there that area bit more user-friendly, um,
but they don't accept, theydon't use, uh, lightning, and so
therefore, they can't be usedwith the current streaming sats
plans and all of that.
So it's a bit frustratingreally, isn't it?

Sam Sethi (01:07:00):
Yeah, I mean, I had some of the tech bros giving me
grief because we create virtualwallets as a way of overcoming
this issue, with Albideprecating wallets, and they
were like, well, why can't I putlightning payments into your
wallet?
And why is it this and this andthis?
And I'm like I don't want youto use my wallet to buy coffee

(01:07:22):
and pizza.
It's not a universal wallet.
It has a function within myapplication and, yes, we might
allow you to bring sats inshortly, but it's not my primary
driver or goal as a business.
My primary goal is for you tolisten to a podcast and, if you
choose to make a payment, that'sgreat.
And again, I had a conversationwith a friend about why don't

(01:07:44):
we just put a filter over thetop of the sats and just show
the local currency?
Because I actually think youknow, I hope I've been one of
the advocates trying to push themicropayment rock up the hill.
I've tried everything I can.
We've got one click integrationwith Apple Pay and Google Pay,
which no one else seems to haveyet, but we don't see people

(01:08:08):
going oh yeah, I've topped mywallet up, that's great, I want
to use Sats now.
They just don't understand it.
And again I go back to the whystatement.
That's great, I want to useSats now.
They just don't understand it.
And again I go back to the whystatement.
That's what I've had anepiphany of this week.
I don't think we have a.
Why should I spend money on apodcast anyway?
And then, why should I use Sats?
They don't know that there's atechnical challenge around, you

(01:08:31):
know, not being able to dosplits or having clever
programmatic money uses.
They don't see that.
They just see this funnycurrency which they have no
relation to.
And it goes back to whatAlberto was saying about
parasocial relationships.
We fundamentally can anchor ourbrains oh, three cents, okay.

(01:08:53):
If this in total is then 13cents, oh, okay, that's.
You know, that's like buying aMars bar or something or
whatever.
We can anchor it to things inthe real world that we are
prepared to pay for.
But when I say it's 6,000 sats,there is no anchoring, there is
no.
Oh, is that a lot, is that alittle?
I have no idea where that sitsin the lexicon of payments.

(01:09:15):
Um, I think that's the problemanyway, on james, yes, moving on
.

Uh, clean feed, clean feed has made a number of
clean feed.
uh has made a number ofimprovements to the core audio
quality of its remote audio tool.
What does clean feed sound like?
Well, it sounds like thisbecause this is what we're using
, um.
The benefit of using clean feedover and above things like
Riverside and Squadcast, are,apart from lower latency.

(01:09:42):
So when Sam tells me to shut up, then I get that instantly in
my ears, rather than a second orso later.
So not only that, but also whatyou hear is what you record,
and that's something that, um,is not the case.
If you're using Squadcast orthe Riverside app or whatever it
might be, you hear something,but the systems are recording

(01:10:05):
something else and quite oftenyou end up with really crappy
audio and you've no idea whythat's the case.
So the benefit of Clean Feed isI'm recording, I've got the
record button on here and what Ihear is what I'm recording.

Sam Sethi (01:10:23):
Hmm, and it is true, because the interview we did
this week with Alberto fromRSScom was done last week as
well.

Yes, it was take number two, wasn't it?

Sam Sethi (01:10:33):
Yes, and post-recording.
All I could hear was a clickingsound from Alberto's side.
Now Alberto and I were likehe's got a Shure microphone.
It all sounded great while wewere talking, there was no issue
.
All sounded great while we weretalking, there was no issue.
I've had the same thing withEllie Rubenstein when she did an
interview and it was prettyinaudible when we actually had
it.
We had to put it out.

(01:10:54):
It's yeah, it's one of thosethings that Clean Feed does
really well.

Yeah, so it's a very excellent thing.
I should say that Clean Feedgive us Clean Feed Pro as a
little gift, because they'relovely people, but frankly, the
free version is just as good.
Cleanfeednet.
Slash podcasts is, I think, theone, or maybe slash podcasting
one of the two, but worthwhiletaking a peek at.

(01:11:21):
Interestingly.
I mean, they are so geeky atthat company I know the two
marks well but they are so geekyat that company that they say
that they have made a number ofimprovements to the core audio
quality.
They haven't gone into whatthose improvements are because
it's just too complicated tounderstand, but you know why not
, but they are super clever.
What else is going on?

(01:11:42):
Osha has launched two new toolsas part of their podcast search
optimisation stuff, which isworth a peek.
Digital Music News says thatSpotify playlists and podcasts
are being abused by spammers tolink to pirate websites.
Well, that's something that wecould have told them three years
ago and in fact we did, becauseback in 2022, well, that's two

(01:12:04):
years ago Alberto Botella,friend of the show, friend of
this show particularly he wrotean article about how rsscom
deals with spam podcasts,because there are an awful lot
of them and an awful lot of spampodcasts on the Spotify for
Creators platform as well, butclearly that's now hurting

(01:12:26):
Spotify a fair amount.
And I read a bunch of tediousstuff about the WebVTT format
and basically saying, if you'reonly going to use one podcast
transcription format, then useVTT, because it's better than

(01:12:48):
and apart from anything else.
Your web browser understands itand Apple Podcasts understands
it Two ticks that you can't getwith any other transcript format
.
So if you're only going tosupport that, if you're only
going to support one, thensupport that, but you should
just, for podcasting, make surethat you only use 65 characters

(01:13:10):
a line, no more than that,because otherwise you're making
life harder for podcast apps.
But anyway, wrote a lot aboutthat on Wednesday, which was a
special extra version of thetech stuff in the Pod News
newsletter.
Had nothing to do with the factthat I forgot the sponsor for
the tech stuff on Monday.
Nothing to do with that.
I just I just fancied on doinganother one.

Sam Sethi (01:13:33):
But you also.
I mean, I do love these whenyou get into this.
This is when you get into yourgeekiness.
And I do love it because youalso wrote these tricks to get
live captions for every podcastyou listen to.
And again, I highly recommendlooking that up because it's
really good stuff.

Yeah, live captions exist on every single
system with the possibleexception of the iPhone, but
certainly on Macs.
You can get them on Windowsmachines, on Android, and
they're really useful becausethey do also work on things like
Clean Feed and Squadcast andthose sorts of tools as well, so

(01:14:07):
worthwhile.
Turning on what else is goingon?
The podcast location tag, theversion two of it, the enhanced
version, which can now tell youwhere the creator is as well as
what your podcast is about.
Finally, finally yay, so, um,that uh is on the way.

(01:14:29):
Uh, I have written a javascripttag generator which is super
easy you just type in where youare, you press the button and it
fills out all of the tediousstuff for you.
Um, there's a fullspecification uh conversation
going on at the moment.
Hopefully that will be ratifiedsoon, or agreed, or whatever
the phrase is, and we can moveforward with that.

(01:14:50):
But if you are a podcast hostand I know that we have many who
listen to us then you can closethat Google Maps API down.
You can use the API from theOpenStreetMap and use the free
JavaScript tag generator that wehave, and it couldn't be any
easier.
So, yeah, and if you are goodat JavaScript and you can add a

(01:15:14):
few bells and whistles to that,then go ahead.
It's on GitHub and you're morethan welcome for that, if anyone
wants to see the podcastlocation tag working.

Sam Sethi (01:15:24):
Go into TrueFinds and look up PodNewsDaily and just
go and look at the episodes,because you traveled around the
world so you were puttinglocations for Dubai and Heathrow
and Stockholm and LA and thatall worked and when you click on
those links it takes you to themap and you can see where James
was.
It's a bit like where's Wally'sJames, but yes, if you want and

(01:15:48):
you are building an app and youwant to see how it looks and
works as well from the front end, check out Pod News Daily on
True Fans and you'll see it allworking.
Boostergram Corner on the PodNews Weekly Review.

Yes, it's our favourite time of the week.
It's Boostergram Corner and,just as a reminder, we share all
of the week.
It's Boostergram Corner and,just as a reminder, we share all
of the money that you send usvery kindly for your support of
this show between Sam and I.
Nothing goes to the rest of thePod News team, because why
should they get any of thismoney?
And you can press the fan mailbutton in the show notes for

(01:16:29):
this very podcast and send us atext message.
You can press the boost buttonin your favourite podcast app
and some people have done that.
Here's one from Cy a thousandsats from Fountain.
Thank you, it was interestingto hear all your thoughts about
the additional exodus See whathe's done there to social
networks like Blue Sky andThreads.

(01:16:50):
But it got me thinking ifthere's a way of correlating or
bridging all of those accountsand habits like truefanssocial
activity pub between them all,especially with features like
Blue Sky's AT protocol domainverification.
Wow, there is, there's a thing.
Yeah, I have actually sat andwritten a piece of code which I

(01:17:10):
haven't yet put live, but theidea is that it will take new
posts that I put onto theFediverse and it will
automatically pull those outonto BlueSky, because there's an
open API for the BlueSkyplatform.
So yeah, so there is a way ofdoing that and there's something
called Bridgie, I think, whichallows you to do that.

Sam Sethi (01:17:32):
Yeah, that's one of them.
But also from a userperspective, there is an app
called Croissant which allowsyou to post from multiple, from
one Croissant app to multipleendpoints.
So if you wanted to do Mastodon, blue Sky and Threads all from
the same one app post, then itwill do that.

(01:17:53):
So it's built in all of thebridges to those back ends, all
those social media apps.
So, yeah, that's one app.
I mean I'm sure there's otherscoming.
I mean my point is and I don'ttrust Threads as far as I could
throw them but basically, ifthey do proper two-way
federation, that will actuallybe the road forward so that you

(01:18:14):
can use any one app and then youcan follow people on any other
social media platform.
That's the goal, that's theidea.
But of course, threads do itone way which is like Spotify
suck data in but give nothingout.
Anyway, one way which is likeSpotify suck data in but give
nothing out.

Anyway, moving on , what else have we had?
We've had 20,000 sats fromMartin, from Podfriend.
Hey, martin, thank you so muchfor that.
Yeah, where have you been?
Yeah, where have you been?
Thanks for what's always greatnews, james, he says, boosting
the pod news daily.
That's very kind of you, martin, thank you.
Wonderful to hear from you.
And what's this one from Silason Linux?

(01:18:52):
10,000 sats from Fountain.
What does he say, sam?

Sam Sethi (01:18:56):
You should be more clear when talking, guys.
You should call TrueFounds theone open RSS player that
supports every open RSS podcastnamespace tag built on open html
and open internet.
Thank you, uncle.
Um no, thank you, silas.
It is it.
It is a hard, hard sell.
We, we, we shout and shout, butI think I'm shouting into the

(01:19:19):
void some days.

I think he's taking the piss about me saying
open rss.
Um, I think.
I think this is what's going on.
Sil Silas seems to comment onevery message that I put on the
Fediverse with some sarcasticcomment, and I have a feeling
this is one of those.

Sam Sethi (01:19:38):
Oh, okay, so he's taking the Michael, isn't he I?

think he's taking the Michael rather than saying
that you're a brilliant person,Sam, and that you're doing an
excellent job.
But I think you're a brilliantperson and you're doing an
excellent job.
So there you go.
Thank you very much.

Sam Sethi (01:19:50):
Well, if, silas, you want to do it yourself, mate,
crack on, get an app, do ityourself, because he was one of
the bros who was moaning at meabout not having lightning into
the wallet and I'm like you knowwhat We'll get there, the world
.

And also thank you to the magnificent 11.
I met one of them this week,rachel Corbett.
It was very good to meet Rachelagain.
I was down in Sydney and shewas there at something I'm just
about to talk about in just aminute, but it was great to see
Rachel there.
Also, dave Jackson, mike at theRogue Media Network, matt
Medeiros, marshall Brown,cameron Moll, si Jobling, david

(01:20:26):
Marzell, jim James, rocky Thomasand Neil Velio it's very kind
of you.
Weeklypodnewsnet, if you wouldlike to support us with your, or
indeed your company's, creditcard, go there.
It can be as low as $3 a month,but most people pay more, so
why don't you?
What's happened for you thisweek, sam?

Sam Sethi (01:20:49):
Well, I am going to try and convince you that the
Ray-Ban Meta sunglasses that Ihave, which I love.
They've now enabled AI in theUK and Australia on those
glasses.
No longer do I need to use aVPN and pretend I'm in America.
I can now go back to actuallybeing in the UK.
They've updated it with a fewother bits and pieces.
It's getting much, much smarter.

(01:21:10):
You know your AirPods.
You have the option to havetransparency mode, where if
someone talks, the volume dropsdown.
They've added that.
They've added much more to dowith languages.
It's now available in Europe.
They're getting smarter.
These glasses, and you know,the hardware is the hardware.
It's the software that'supdating, and I think you know,
james, I think it's time you gota pair.

Yeah, no, none of that, Although I have actually
just bought a new pair ofglasses.
I am that old now, sam, sadly,that I need to wear multifocals,
varifocals, whatever they'recalled.
Yes, I know, but I'm onlywearing them in one eye because
I'm weird like that.
So I'm looking forward togetting hold of those in the

(01:21:53):
next couple of weeks.

Sam Sethi (01:21:55):
I was going to say.
My wife thinks I'm odd becauseI used to have glasses and now
have perfect eyesight again asI've got older.

And now you wear glasses.

Sam Sethi (01:22:02):
And now I wear glasses.
I went in to see if I needed apair of glasses to go into those
Ray-Bans.
I was thinking, okay, if I needglasses I might as well get
them for those.
And it turns out I don't needglasses at all, but they're good
fun wearing them still.

Well there you go .

Sam Sethi (01:22:16):
The other thing I talked about earlier.
I went to the WonderCraftannouncement.
They had a wonderful panelthere.
There's a guy called DanielHume there, dr Daniel Hume,
who's the head of AI for WPP.
He was a really interesting guy, very, very knowledgeable, so I
had a chat with him.
That was very good.
Saw Oscar and Dimitri andthey're going to be on the show,

(01:22:39):
hopefully pre-Christmas to talkabout a few more announcements
they've got coming up.
And then just a bit of a oftidbit, because you know my
village has everyone in it.
I just thought you'd love thisfor your radio.
Yeah, here we go.
Newsletter.
Uh, radio was invented in myvillage, james, and it's
official.
There you go.
Uh, marconi lived on the roadnext door to me, but one, and uh

(01:23:02):
, he basically did the firsttransmission from his home in
cookham.
So radio as well was inventedin my village.
I thought you'd love that InBerkshire.

Yes, yes, just at the end of the road from
Cookham Dean Cricket Club, 142White Ladies Lane, and that is
where Guillermo Marconi livedand apparently he did
experimental transmissions in1897.
Let's see if I can get aninterview with him as well, oh

(01:23:32):
no.
I can't, yeah might as well,see if he's well.
I mean, you know, you might aswell just knock on the door of
142 and see who's there and seeif any of his equipment's still
there.
They've got a blue plaque.
Yeah, there is a blue plaquethere.

Sam Sethi (01:23:44):
yes, Unveiled on the 3rd of september 1996.
I'll have you know.
Yeah, I've got a blue plaque onmy door, by the way, do you
only indian in the village,aren't you lucky?
Yeah, so what's happened foryou, mate?
What's happened?

uh, I was down in sydney on monday for an apple
podcasts event.
Um, in Sydney, in true ApplePodcasts style.
I cannot tell you anything thathappened there because they
said they said this is just forus, but it was super good.
Actually, it was a really niceexperience of just seeing a

(01:24:23):
bunch of people who are involvedin the Australian podcast
industry, seeing a bunch ofpeople who are involved in the
Australian podcast industry.
My favourite bit was there wasone guy from a company called
Audiocraft, which I've beenwriting about for a while, used
to run a podcast conference inthis country, but no longer.
And, yeah, and he looked at myshirt because, of course, I was
wearing the Pod News shirt, andhe looked at my shirt because,

(01:24:43):
of course, I was wearing the PodNews shirt.
And he looked at my shirt andhe said, wow, so is that
actually a whole news service,but just about podcasting?
And I said, yes, it is.
And the guy standing next tohim said, what, you're not
subscribed to Pod News, youshould fix that immediately.

(01:25:06):
It was just hilarious.
So, yeah, so that was reallynice.
So Rachel Corbett was there, ofcourse, and plenty of other
people.
It was just a super nicechilled out couple of hours
drinking Apple's coffee andeating Apple's canapes, and yeah
, so that was a good thing, soyou can't tell us anything that
went on there, but you just wentto Apple Nice.

(01:25:26):
Yeah, I just went to Apple.
I mean, to be be fair, theydidn't say anything either.
Um, they did.
They did have a few nicenumbers, um, which I'm trying to
get, um, uh, acceptance for meto actually to actually report
on um, but, um, but no, it wasjust, it was just an interesting
thing.
Quite a lot of it was just.
You know, look, um, here's howtranscripts work.

(01:25:46):
If you haven't seen transcripts, this is what they look like,
this is what we're doing.
You know, blah, blah, blah.
So there was nothing new thereat all, but it was just a nice
experience just to say hi to abunch of people.

Sam Sethi (01:26:01):
Dare, I say embargo.

Is this.
You sent me a very painedmessage on Wednesday saying
James, james, the Amazon story.
It seems to have disappearedfrom your website and I don't
understand why that is, but Igot the email, okay.

Alberto Betella (01:26:21):
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.
So what happens is, if I was soexcited about Amazon's news
that I read the embargo I meanany news, but they are lovely
people at Amazon's PR department.
So I read the embargo time andit said 6 am Pacific time, 9 am
Eastern time.
And I read that as 6 am Easterntime, which it was not.

(01:26:44):
And so I thought, brilliant,brilliant, I can get that.
I can get that as my main story.
Blah, blah, blah.
I sent it bang.
And then, all of a sudden, myphone went absolutely crazy as
Amazon said what are you doing?
What are you doing?
We have an embargo and you'vejust driven through it three
hours early.
First time, sam, in seven yearsthat I've screwed up an embargo

(01:27:05):
.
And of course, I had to do itto one of the biggest companies
in the world, didn't I?
And I was, and they said takeit off the website now.
And I said, well, okay, I'vealready taken it off the website
, but the problem is I've sentit to 32,000 people's emails and
you could see the colourdraining from their face at the
other end of the telephone line.
So they've all been very, veryunderstanding.

(01:27:28):
And, yes, I felt dreadful, butyes, that was definitely a bad
thing.
And the final thing, just on avery geeky technical note, I've
been using a company calledUptime Robot for a long time,
which sends you an email whenyour website falls over, which,
if you remember, I had to dealwith an awful lot a few months

(01:27:48):
ago.
Touch wood, everything is allgood again now, but anyway, that
was a super useful service.
Anyway they have, because, ofcourse, all good things must
come to an end.
They have turned around andsaid, ah yes, uptime Robot is
now going to be free only forpersonal use, not for company
use.
So all of a sudden I had tocancel that and then I thought
well, who else should I use?

(01:28:09):
Then I had to look at my Umbral, and my Umbral has on it a
piece of software called UptimeCuma, which you just install on
your Umbral and it sits thereand does the automatic checks,
and so that's what I've gotworking now and it's fine and
I'm in control of it andeverything else, and I've got it

(01:28:30):
sending emails and sendingSlack updates and all kinds of
stuff.
So very cool.
So, yeah, so if you are stuckin the same boat and you happen
to have an umbral all two of youthen take a look at Uptime Kuma
, which you can also find anddownload and install on your own
box wherever it happens to be,and that's a super useful thing

(01:28:53):
if you have servers out therethat you want to keep an eye on.
And that's it for this week.
All of our podcast stories thisweek were taken from the Pod
News newsletter.
You can subscribe to thenewsletter at podnewsnet.
There are longer interviews inthe Pod News Extra podcast.
I really want to point you inthat direction, because you've
only heard a third of both ofthe interviews today.

(01:29:14):
You'll hear all of them in thePod News Extra podcast, but
otherwise this podcast ends upbeing four and a half million
years long and nobody wants that.

Sam Sethi (01:29:22):
Pardon, joe Rogan.

Pardon Joe Rogan, you'll find the Pod News Extra
podcast wherever you find thispodcast you can support this
show by streaming sats.

Sam Sethi (01:29:30):
You can give us feedback using boss sprout fan
mail in the link in our shownotes and you can send us a
booster gram or become a powersupporter, like the magnificent
11 at weeklypodnewsnet our musicis from studio dragonfly.

Our voiceover is Sheila D.
We use clean feed for our audio, hindenburg for our editing.
I should say that because I'vejust got another free year from
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Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.
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Alberto Betella (01:30:04):
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