February 25, 2022 • 41 mins
Kerry Ward and Lisa Taylor of the Library of Congress Veterans History Project talk about the value and progress of the Veterans History Project, which is preserving the voice of veterans for the sake of ourselves, and our progeny.
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Lisa Wright (00:00):
Thinking about future generations. And having
this information, these voices,these stories, these pictures,
these diaries and journals andmilitary documents preserved so
that like those other items thatKerry mentioned earlier that the
Library of Congress has, thesestories will still be here, just
like those future generationswill be able to look them up,
(00:24):
hear their voices, see what theyand hear what they had to say
about their military life. Butnot only that, for the veterans
who participate, it's anopportunity for them. They may
not exist anywhere else to telltheir own story, in their own
words in their own way.
Charlie Malone (00:42):
Welcome to Season Two of the policy vets
podcast, engaging with leaders,scholars and strong voices to
fill a void in support of PolicyDevelopment for America's
veterans. With your host, formerSecretary of Veterans Affairs,
Dr. David Chilton, and theexecutive director of policy.
That's Louis Celli. Today'sguests, Carrie Ward, Lisa
(01:02):
Taylor, of the Library ofCongress, Veterans History
Project.
Louis Celli (01:10):
Mr. Secretary, a couple of weeks ago, you made a
comment that the American peoplesometimes have short memories
when it comes to remembering thesacrifices of our veterans, you
know, if it isn't appearing onthe news every night? Yeah,
Dr. David Shulkin (01:22):
well, that's true. And it certainly comes to
the way people formulateopinions. But when it comes to
personal memories, or familymemories, those are things that
go on, or passed by generationsand go on for a long time. And
so I think it's these personalstories that we hear from
(01:43):
veterans that are really notonly family treasures, but also
national treasures.
Louis Celli (01:48):
That's a really good point. I mean, when you
were a VA, you know, did youever have time to just sit with
veterans and listen to theirstories? And you know, I'm not
talking about their experiencesat VA, but you know, some of
their personal militaryjourneys,
Dr. David Shulkin (02:00):
oh, yeah, it was one of my favorite things to
do particularly, to spend timewith the World War Two veterans,
because, you know, so many ofthem never really shared their
stories with their families,they just came back and didn't
talk about it a lot. But when Iwould get to spend time with
them, they would feel verycomfortable. And particularly,
(02:22):
when I would put on my whitecoat and take care of them as
their doctor in a VA. That'swhen they really feel
comfortable talking about theirstories, there's something about
when they come into the VAMedical Center, it sort of frees
them to go back in time andshare their stories, because
they know everybody around them,understands what they're talking
(02:44):
about.
Louis Celli (02:45):
You know, I've been in VA facilities all around the
country. I've visited militaryinstallations all around the
world, I can tell you that everyveteran has a story.
Dr. David Shulkin (02:53):
Yeah, that's true. You know, one of the one
of the great things that I thinkis happening at VA, is that they
are digitizing the nationalcemeteries. And what does that
mean? That means that sinceevery veteran who has passed has
a story, the VA is getting thosestories on a digital format, so
(03:19):
that when schoolchildren andfamily members and other people
were interested, go to a VAcemetery, they can actually pull
up those digital files and hearthat veterans story. And I think
it's similar to what we're goingto hear about today, with the
Library of Congress's efforts tocatalogue a lot of these
(03:40):
stories. But you know, that it'sone of the great things that a
country can do is to memorializewhen somebody has dedicated
their life and sacrificed fortheir country to get their
story, to be able to live onforever.
Louis Celli (03:55):
You're right. I absolutely love that. As a
matter of fact, that was apersonal project of a good
friend of ours, the HonorableRandy Reeves, and you know, some
of the stories are hard to hearsomebody can laugh, and but
they're always interesting.
They're, they're alwayssomething that you find at the
end of the story. You werereally glad for having listened.
Dr. David Shulkin (04:16):
Yeah, and especially to family members who
have lost somebody. You know,there are times I'm sure that it
feels like nobody cares. Nobodyremembers the sacrifice that
that family went through. And sohaving that story down there and
knowing that other people aretaking the time to hear about
that important life, and whatthey did sacrifice, I think is
(04:39):
really an obligation that wehave, and I'm so glad that VA
has embraced that mission andcontinues that important work.
Louis Celli (04:48):
You know, as generations pass, you know,
sometimes they they take thishistory with them and many of
these stories are lost forever.
Just a few months ago, we lost areally important piece of that
history Max clean And SenatorCleveland lit a truly impactful
life.
Dr. David Shulkin (05:04):
Yeah, I think that's right. He was an amazing
not only Senator but but alsohad a big impact, as you know,
as a VA administrator. And thatjust seems like this past year,
we've lost so many of thesegreat giants, whether it was Bob
(05:25):
Dole, or Johnny Isakson, youknow, so many people that have
just, it was that generation ofjust truly amazing people. And,
you know, I think we have acurrent generation, that's
amazing, too. And hopefully,they'll be celebrated when, when
(05:45):
their time comes as well. But,but it's so important for us to
remember the contributions ofothers.
Louis Celli (05:52):
You know, I didn't, I didn't get to meet Senator
Cleveland until after he hadleft the Senate when he was with
the few American battlesmonument commission. And we're
just really lucky that he hadthe foresight to, to really be a
major contributor and back theproject. We're about to heat
we're, you know, we're going tohear about today.
Dr. David Shulkin (06:10):
Yeah, yeah.
I, I think that this issomething that many people don't
know about, that the Library ofCongress has its own special
initiative for veterans. Andit's, it's really important
work. And we want everybody toknow about it, because we want
people to know that there's away that they can record their
(06:32):
stories and get them to live onfor future generations.
Louis Celli (06:38):
Now, exactly. To your point, this has been going
on for two decades. It startedin 2000. So, you know, they've
got already got 1000s of hoursof audio and video and pictures
and stories of veterans. And alot of people don't know about
this.
Dr. David Shulkin (06:53):
Yeah. And of course, you know, you're the one
who brought this to myattention. So how did you
connect with Lisa and Carrie,that we're going to hear from
today?
Louis Celli (07:03):
That's a really great question. It just comes
from being involved in thecommunity I sit on, I sit on a
board that features veteransartwork, and the library has
invited this organization, it'scalled uniting us, and has
invited them to bring theirartwork and and display it for
the public. Right out on theFourth of July. I mean, one of
(07:24):
the most popular times at theLibrary of Congress is going to
be open. And through that iswhen I learned about the
Veterans History Project. And Iwas really taken aback and I was
a little embarrassed that Ididn't know more about it. And I
just thought it was importantthat you know that we that we
invite them in and let them tellour listeners a little bit more
about what they're doing.
Dr. David Shulkin (07:43):
Yeah, that's right, Lou, I remember we did
that podcast with uniting uslast year. And it's it's just
always amazing to me, thewonderful pockets of talent that
are out there, who are givingback to our veteran communities
and really making this such asuch a rich and robust group of
(08:05):
people that are out there whocare so much about these
Americans who have sacrificed
Louis Celli (08:11):
Well, you know, capturing these stories, and all
of this really rich history isjust so important. So why don't
we get Lisa and Carrie in here?
And let's get started. Allright,
Dr. David Shulkin (08:19):
let's go.
Louis Celli (08:28):
Hey, Lisa Carrie, welcome to the policy vets
podcast. Thanks for taking thetime to join us today. We really
appreciate it.
Lisa Wright (08:34):
Thanks for having us. We really appreciate being
here.
Kerry Ward (08:37):
We're very happy to be here.
Dr. David Shulkin (08:38):
Well, I also to want to welcome you to the
podcast. And it amazes me thatso many people have never heard
about the Veterans HistoryProject. That's why we wanted to
have you both on this morning.
So maybe Lisa could start withyou. Can you tell us a little
bit about yourself and why yougot involved in this project and
how long you've been involved?
Lisa Wright (09:00):
Absolutely. I'm a native Washingtonian. I am a
proud product of DC publicschools. I attended two HBCUs,
Howard University and BowieState University. So my
background is communicationsjournalism specifically. And I
came to this project afterspending about 20 years in the
(09:22):
nonprofit world as acommunications expert and
fundraiser. And when I heardabout this position, and being
open, it felt like such a goodfit for me because it's so
mission oriented. So it justfelt like home. And I really
love being here and been herefor about 12 and a half years.
And I feel like it's gonna be amuch longer time that I spent
(09:43):
here. It's a it's a great placeto work the Library of Congress.
And this project just makes iteven more special.
Dr. David Shulkin (09:50):
Yeah, I think that I'm always amazed at how
many people visit Washington butdon't go visit the Library of
Congress building I happen tothink it's actually the most
magnificent building inWashington that's open to the
public. And so I encouragepeople if they've not had a
chance to do that to get overthere. Carrie, how about you?
How long have you been involved?
And tell us a little bit aboutyourself?
Kerry Ward (10:14):
Sure. Well, I am originally from Arizona, where I
had studied psychology in prelaw. But you know, life does not
always take us on a linear path.
I eventually started workingwith aviation event management
with the United States Navy andMarine Corps Blue Angels and
Thunderbirds manage also aveteran service outreach program
that utilized a world war two b25, Mitchell bomber, traveled
(10:37):
the country in order to driveattention to the assistance that
they provided veterans. Andalthough that beautiful piece of
machinery was a great way toattract veterans and the public,
it was really the veterans andtheir stories that not only
compelled me, but also compelledothers to further talk about how
they could be helped by thisorganization. So before I had
(11:00):
even heard about VeteransHistory Project, I was doing
something a little bit similar.
I was sitting down and talkingto these veterans, interviewing
them, getting to know what theirhistory was like, and then
sharing it with their community.
Once I found out a little bitmore about Veterans History
Project, I knew that that wassomething that I would have to
be involved with. Lisa and I areboth liaison specialists with
(11:23):
the Veterans History Project.
And although we have the samejob title, we get to do slightly
different things. For instance,I get to specialize in the Gold
Star family members, whereasLisa gets to specialize in the
scouts.
Louis Celli (11:38):
Terry, if you don't mind, the Secretary really
brings up a very good point. Andthat is the Library of Congress,
while while visited by a greatnumber of people each year and
visitors to our nation's capitolisn't one of the main
attractions. Would you mindtelling us, you know, just a
little bit more about what theLibrary of Congress is?
Kerry Ward (11:59):
Absolutely. I love that the Secretary said it was
one of his favorite buildings inWashington, DC, because I always
feel that I may be a bit biased,but I think it's the most
beautiful building inWashington, DC, the photos, the
art, the architecture, all of ithas an overarching theme of
storytelling that's built rightinto the art and architecture.
(12:21):
And that's part of why thelibrary put such an emphasis on
preserving and archivingnarratives. When we're able to
share and archive the stories,it helps us preserve our
culture. And it aids us inreally understanding our past so
that we can better prepare forour future. The Library of
Congress is the oldest federaland cultural institution, and we
are the world's preeminentreservoir of knowledge providing
(12:43):
unparalleled integratedresources to Congress and the
American people. I love to putthat plug in because we really
are the people's library. And sowe invite everybody listening to
take a look at the resourcesavailable both online at Loc for
library of congress.gov or inperson. Now, if you're anything
(13:04):
like me, when you hear Libraryof Congress, you automatically
think books, right. And while wedo have a magnificent collection
of over 14 million catalog booksin print materials, that is only
a small fraction of the over 170million items that the Library
of Congress has. If you likecomic books, we have the largest
(13:25):
collection of comic books in theworld. If you like music, we
have the Stradivarius violins.
If you're interested incartography, we have the Walter
Mueller map, which is the firsttime that the word America
appeared on a map. And if youlike memories, we have the
Veterans History Project.
Dr. David Shulkin (13:44):
So is it is it true that every book that's
published is is in the Libraryof Congress? Or is it a select
group of books and other typesof materials?
Kerry Ward (13:56):
That's a great question that actually comes
from our copyright office. So inaddition to all those items that
I mentioned, part of the reasonthat we have that number is
because we have the copyrightoffice at the Library of
Congress. And so anything thatis published and has a copyright
on it is at the Library ofCongress. If it's self
published, then we perhaps maynot have it. Sure.
Louis Celli (14:17):
Lusa Veterans History Project is really unique
at the library. How did it getstarted?
Lisa Wright (14:23):
It got started back in 2001. Prior to that, Ron came
from Wisconsin CongressmanRankine was at a family backyard
barbecue with his World War Twoera dad and uncle who were
swapping war stories as they hadtended to do at family events.
At the time, Ron kinds childrenwere very young running around
(14:47):
playing. And he was listening tothese stories. And then he
thought, my kids are too youngto really understand this
conversation. But one day,they're going to want to know
what these great heroes had tosay. And so he asked To pause
the conversation, ran into thehouse, get the video camera,
which is what most folks useback then. And he came back out
(15:09):
and said, Okay, start over. Andso he recorded their
conversation so that he couldpreserve it for his own family's
history so that his children andtheir children can hear these
stories. And he thought that itwould be really great if folks
all over the country had anopportunity to do this for their
families, but not only for theirfamilies, but so that this
(15:31):
information could be preservedsomeplace and thought about
where could this live so thatfuture generations can access
all of these stories. And hewent back wrote up the
legislation, the idea wasoriginally jotted down on a
paper napkin, so that he wouldnot forget and we still have
that napkin. He jotted it down,went back, got the legislation
(15:53):
written, it passed unanimously,surprise, unanimous legislation
passed. And we were up andrunning. In 2001. We were
initially intended to be a fiveyear project that was intended
to basically capture the storiesof World War Two era veterans,
because at that time, of course,they were aging. And we were
(16:15):
concerned about getting thesestories while we could. Five
years went by the popularity wassteadily growing, and people
were interested in preservingeven more stories of Korea War
and Vietnam War era vets, andjust on and on, and we
continuously got renewed and weare still here now. 21 years
later.
Dr. David Shulkin (16:33):
Wow, what a great story. Lisa, I I have to
get a pile of napkins, because Ialways my ideas I always think
are great, but I forget aboutthem the next day. So So you
know, what one day the goalwould be to have my napkin in
the Library of Congress?
Absolutely. How do you how doyou find the veterans to
(16:55):
interview how the how do youknow who's got these great
stories out there that you wantto capture?
Lisa Wright (17:03):
So the great thing about this project is that it is
grassroots. It's totallyvolunteer based. So we have a
very small team fewer than 20people. So our job is to present
the information, and thenarchive it and process it and
make it accessible. We put theinformation out there so that
people can sit down with theirown veterans, if you have a
(17:24):
veteran that you know, ifthere's one in your family, your
household, your community, evenif there are other organizations
around you, or places thatveterans may be, then you can
interview those veterans on yourown, we have a full kit is what
we call our little booklet ofinstructions that walks you
through this entire easy tofollow process. So you can sit
(17:45):
down at your veterans kitchentable, living room sofa and have
a very informal conversation ororal history interview, to talk
to them about their life before,during and after military
service so that we get the fullarc of their story. And so we
don't really need to hot forveterans there. There. There are
(18:06):
over 20 million living wartimeveterans out here. Our challenge
is more so finding volunteers toactually sit down with the
veteran in their life andinterview that veteran and then
submit that story to us.
Louis Celli (18:21):
You know, carry when you were talking earlier, I
I was a little surprised at thediversity and all the different
things that the library does.
I've been there on a couple ofdifferent occasions for
different reasons. I've evenbeen there for private events
where they close it off, and itis a magnificent and beautiful
building. But does the libraryhave other projects like this?
Sure.
Kerry Ward (18:41):
So the Veterans History Project technically
falls underneath the umbrella ofthe American Folklife summer
center. And under the AmericanFolklife Center, we have a
number of different oral historyprojects, including the slave
narratives, we have occupationalfolklife poetry, we have civil
rights oral history project, andwe also are the home to story
(19:03):
court if you're familiar withthem. The difference is that
with the Veterans HistoryProject, we're not run by
professional oral historians.
but rather as Lisa mentioned,it's the individuals and
organizational volunteers acrossthe nation that helped to sit
down and learn a little bit morefrom those veterans and
voluntarily submit those to theLibrary of Congress. The other
(19:23):
thing that makes us somewhatunique is that with the
Copyright Office underneath theLibrary of Congress, we are kind
of sticklers for copyright. Andso we consider ourselves the
keepers of said stories, but notthe owners of the stories. So
what that means is if somebodywants to use these collections,
we work with researchers,documentarians, authors, if they
(19:44):
want to use it for somethingother than strictly educational
purposes, we send them back tothe veteran or back to their
next of kin to get permission.
Dr. David Shulkin (19:55):
I'm wondering whether the pandemic has
impacted your ability tocontinue this work and to be
able to continue the catalogue,great stories that that people
want to give has it changed theway that you have to do things?
Kerry Ward (20:10):
Well, I think the pandemic has affected all of our
lives in different ways. Andcertainly we were not exempt to
that. We had to pivot somewhat.
But what it allowed us to do wasto really kind of shift focus,
and dig deep and come up withsome really creative ways to
present collections. Our missionwith the Veterans History
Project is to collect, preserveand make accessible the
(20:30):
firsthand memories of ournation's veterans. So part of
what we were able to do, you wasreally focused on different
ways, as I mentioned, to presentthese existing collections
through things like virtualstory maps, presentations, blog
posts, and more. And in someways that actually helped us and
a great instance of this, asLisa mentioned, we're on our
21st year. And so we justcelebrated our 20th anniversary,
(20:53):
and we were able to do that witha series of virtual panel
discussions and musicalperformances. And because we
shifted to a virtual platform,it allowed us to connect with a
more diverse group from acrossthe country. It also pushed us
to sit down and learn, documentand share about both virtual and
in person at a distanceinterviews, which are resources
(21:16):
we now have readily availablefor anybody who's interested via
our blog at loc dot govt forwardslash, Betsy ETS,
Louis Celli (21:27):
Lisa, Carrie brings up a really important point
about things like copyright andbeing charged with, you know,
protecting the, you know, thedata that you guys collect. And
even though it's available tothe public, it doesn't mean that
the public can just, you know,rip down somebody's interview
and use it in their own Tik Tokvideo for their own purposes or
(21:48):
for you know, for whatever theywant. So, what's it like to be
charged with a project likethis? I mean, why, why something
like this so important anyway,
Lisa Wright (21:58):
it's so important for so many reasons, Lou, for
one, we're thinking about notjust today's researchers, not
just today's loved ones of theseveterans who are still living or
recently passed, but we'rethinking about future
generations. And having thisinformation, these voices, these
stories, these pictures, thesediaries, and journals and
(22:20):
military documents preserved sothat like those other items that
carry mentioned earlier that theLibrary of Congress has, these
stories will still be here, justlike those. And so in order to
do that, we take it veryseriously the whole preservation
process of these items, andfuture generations, we'll be
able to look them up, hear theirvoices, see what they and hear
(22:43):
what they had to say about theirmilitary life. But not only
that, for the veterans whoparticipate, it's an opportunity
for them, they may not existanywhere else to tell their own
story, in their own words, intheir own way. So we don't have
a scripted process for them tofollow, we do have some
suggested interview questionsthat folks can use when they get
(23:05):
our field kit to help themunderstand what kinds of things
that kind of pull out theconversation, but the veteran
can talk about whatever theywant. And so for a lot of
veterans, this is the only timethey have ever spoken about what
they experienced in themilitary. And of course, not
every veteran saw combat, noteveryone had a horrific war tale
that you may think of when youthink of a veteran's service.
(23:27):
But some had other roles in themilitary that were just as
important that helped themilitary work. And so we often
overlook those veterans whoweren't officers or who weren't
on the frontlines. This projectallows those who were cooks, or
had other mechanical jobs orother things like that in the
background that you don't hearabout so much. And a lot of
(23:50):
times, they're so humble, andmany of them, even some of our
women veterans don't even feellike they are a veteran because
of that perception. But thisproject allows them to say, Hey,
I did serve my country I did puton that uniform, I raised my
right hand, I took that oath.
And my story is just asimportant as everyone else's.
And it's going to be preservedforever at the Library of
(24:11):
Congress with everyone else's.
And so we have a chance to givethem that opportunity. And then
for the volunteer who collectsthat story, who sits down to
interview that loved one or thatcolleague or that neighbor, they
become part of history as well,because their name is forever
associated with that veteranstory and their record that gets
(24:32):
served get that gets preservedat the Library of Congress,
which makes them a primarysource contributor to the
Library of Congress. So anybodywho's aged 15 or older, can
volunteer to participate as aninterviewer. And any veteran who
served at any point from WorldWar One through more recent
conflicts and is now separatedfrom service. They can
(24:53):
participate. So it's a prettybroad spectrum of participants
and those researchers who cometo us looking for the authentic
stories, appreciate the factthat we have all kinds of
stories from all walks of life,and that they're unedited. And
those items are original. And sothey they know that we've got
the authentic, authentic storiesavailable for them.
Dr. David Shulkin (25:16):
Well, I think both of you have gotten our
listeners hooked. So how doesthe public go about accessing
and watching these videos?
Carrie, maybe you could tell usabout that
Kerry Ward (25:28):
I would be happy to.
So one way to access thecollections is via our website,
which again can be found at Locfor Library of Congress dot govt
for a government entity. Andthen forward slash events V ETS.
On there, you'll find both thearchival side as well as the
participatory side of ourarchive. And out of those
112,000 collections, many ofthem have some form of digitized
(25:51):
content that's available via ourwebsite. So when you log on, you
can literally go on and watch1000s of hours of oral
histories, you can view 1000s ofphotographs, diaries, letters,
journal entries, and more.
Another way to access thecollections is because not all
(26:12):
of our content is digitallyavailable, we do have folks who
come to the Library of Congressin person and come to the
American Folklife Center wherethey can have the collection
served, and they can view themin person. And they're the real
collections right there. We doask for approximately seven days
notice in order for us to readythe collections, but you can
(26:34):
feel free to email us and wewould be happy to go ahead and
set that up. You can email us atVO HP at loc dot govt
Louis Celli (26:43):
it's so important, you know, someday 100 200 Maybe
300 years from now, you knowsome family from Massachusetts
or Indiana or Guam or, you know,they're going to come to DC and
be able to listen to theirgreat, great great, great
grandmother, or, you know, someuncle that that was related to
(27:06):
them, and just listen to theirtheir honest story right there
at the library. And I mean, 300years from now, there'll be some
other, you know, hyper cooltechnology where they'll be able
to come to life in some way. Butyou know, all that being said,
it's got to start somewhere. AndI almost want to say shame on us
for just starting now, you know,we've got 20 years behind us.
(27:28):
But we've got, you know, over150 years, you know more than
that of veterans history. Sowhat's the best way for people
now during the pandemic, to getengaged with this.
Lisa Wright (27:40):
So the best way for folks is to look around them and
think about who do I know whoserved in the US military, who's
now out of service. So they'renow considered a veteran. And
we'll use the same definition ofa veteran as the VA. Once they
find out who that person is,they ask for their permission,
of course, to share their story.
And then they just get arecording device. Most of us are
(28:03):
walking around with one in ourpocket, or our purse right now
we've all got it within a handslimped away. That camera and
that audio recorder on yourdevice can be used to preserve
that story. So you just sit downwith a field kit that we
mentioned, that gives you allthe instructions, it has some
(28:23):
required forms that we need youto submit with that collection.
And for at least 30 minutes, youhave a conversation with that
veteran and ask them a series ofquestions about their their
military service and what madethem decide to go in whether
nothing was drafted, what theirbasic training was, like what
their first duty assignment was,like, what it is they did
(28:45):
throughout the military. Andthen as they came to transition
out, whether that was throughretirement or not whatever
discharge process they wentthrough, and then what life was
like for them when they returnedto civilian life. So that
conversation is just recorded,stored on either a flash drive
or some other technology that wementioned in the field kit, like
(29:06):
a DVD or CD. And then you shipthat recording on edited along
with those forms to us bycommercial delivery. We receive
it, we process it, it takes usabout at this point about a year
from the time we receive it tothe time you can go on our
website and go to our searchableonline database and find that
veterans record so every veteranwho participates with us gets a
(29:30):
summary service record on thatwebsite. And so that's the
official record saying thisveteran story lives at the
Library of Congress. And it'sthat easy to do. So that's why
we start the minimum age at 15.
And anyone can participate. Youdon't have to be a professional
historian. You don't have toknow a lot about technology or,
(29:55):
you know, audio recordingdevices. Any of that stuff. You
don't have to be ken burns youjust need To be a good listener,
and someone who can followsimple instructions as a series
of questions, and ship the stuffto us, it's very, very easy to
do.
Dr. David Shulkin (30:11):
So, Terry, can you tell us one of your
favorite stories of of a veteranwho has contributed?
Kerry Ward (30:19):
I love that question. Because, you know, my
favorite changes on a day to daybasis, it changes with the wind.
But today, I think I'm going tofeature one of our collections
that's from World War One. We wehad mentioned that our
collections start with World WarOne and go all the way through
current conflicts. And one ofthe things we did not mention is
(30:39):
that you can submit posthumouscollections through the form of
photographs, letters, journals,diaries, even two dimensional
pieces of artwork. Thecollection I'm going to share
today is that of Albert, JohnCarpenter, who was a 19 year old
college student, when he headedoff to France to fight in the
Great War. And he took with hima pocket diary about the size of
(31:01):
our cell phones today. And hestarts his diary with October,
the most eventful month of mylife. And he goes on, he talks
about the gassing, he talksabout the money, he talks about
his buddies that were lost, andhe comes home. And like so many
other veterans, he just tosseshis diary away. And, you know,
(31:21):
he just puts it in a closet andforgets about it never goes back
and revisits what his servicewas like. And sometime after his
passing his, his daughter inlaw, actually was the one who
told the family, hey, I reallythink we need to do something
with this, we're doing it adisservice with it just sitting
here, it's got tears, it's gotwater damage. It's all loose
(31:43):
leaf at this point, we know thatwe're not the only repository or
archive out there. And we'revery grateful that they chose to
donate this collection to us.
Because as we heard fromShirley, Hurricane Katrina had
paid her family a little visit.
And it wiped out everything thatwas down in the basement. And
when she No, that was the exactlocation where the diary had
(32:06):
been stored previously. Now,because this was one of the
collections that was featured inone of our exhibits, we were
able to repair a lot of thedamage that it had to the
journal. So our preservation andconservation labs, were able to
take Japanese tissue paper andrepair the tears. They took a
proprietary chemical, put itover the pages in which the they
(32:29):
were too badly water damaged,and which you couldn't read what
was intended to be written. Andwith the proprietary chemical
under ultraviolet light, for thefirst time ever, you were able
to extract what was intended tobe written on those pages. So
now, we have a humiditycontrolled and climate
controlled environment thathouses all of our collections,
(32:50):
to make sure that they're notlost to history.
Louis Celli (32:53):
Lisa, what about you, and I'm sure that you've
heard hundreds and hundreds ofstories, it must be some, you
know, that really resonated andreally stuck with you. So, you
know, we're, we're just aboutout of time, but I really want
to hear about some of thestories that that you've heard.
And then if you could follow upa little bit about, you know,
how the, how the library isactually promoting this project?
Lisa Wright (33:16):
Absolutely. Like Carrie says, so many come to
mind. So the ones that I'mthinking of today are a few that
I just interviewed within thelast year, one sometimes just
because of the story. Andsometimes it's an image that's
just so striking that it juststicks with you when you see the
veterans picture. And for RaquelRiley Thomas, it was both her
(33:38):
story and one of her photos asjust a bit. She was She is a
veteran who became a beautypageant queen. And one of the
photos she submitted to us wasdone by professional, but they
took a shot of her and fullcamouflage, including her face.
And the other half of her is inher full beauty queen gown and
her crown and everything. Andit's kind of a split photo. And
(34:01):
that image sticks with you whenyou see it. It's beautiful. And
it's so striking. But I had theprivilege of interviewing her
last year. And she already had astory on file with us. And she
sat down with me again, to do avirtual one. And her story was
just amazing. She she grew up,went to college, and then joined
(34:22):
the military became a photojournalist. And she's, you know,
she's gorgeous, by the way, soshe was modeling and doing all
kinds of things, had her ownfamily and had two daughters.
And one day one of her daughterssaid, Well, Mom, why don't any
of the Disney Princesses looklike me? Raquel is African
American, and her children aretoo and she was so saddened by
(34:45):
the fact that she didn't haveany princesses to show her
daughter she decided to becomeone. And so she got into the
beauty pageant world won allsorts of crimes. competitions
and Putin, including Mrs.
Maryland. And they even made aBarbie doll in her image, which
she keeps at home, which is socool to me. So when I
interviewed her, she showed mesome of those things. And that
(35:07):
story just sticks out and she'sa really amazing woman
entrepreneur started severalorganizations. She's a mentor
and doing all kinds of greatthings to uplift women and women
veterans as well. One otherquick story that I just
interviewed around this timelast year, was a gentleman named
Justin Butz, who is a veteranNavy veteran and a farmer. We
(35:30):
did a full panel last year onveterans who farm as just one
option that veterans have whenthey leave military service. And
Justin was one of those whoagreed to participate. He had
grown up pretty poor. And hisgrandfather taught him how to
farm as a little boy, he spent alot of time with his granddad,
he had no idea he would end upcircling back and making that
(35:53):
profession. I think he was awrestler or something in high
school, he was pretty big, wentinto the Navy, big, strong guy
loved his military service. Buthe got sick with an autoimmune
disorder while he was in themilitary, and unfortunately had
to leave due to medical reasons.
And so he decided to go become achef, he went to culinary
(36:17):
school. But the call to farmingjust kept pulling him back. And
so today, he is a farmer inupstate New York. He's teaching
people how to farm, people fromurban communities come through
just to learn and see what'sgoing on on the farm. And the
stories that he tells about justlife as a farmer are so amazing.
And you don't really think ofveterans going into a path like
(36:41):
that. But there are so many outhere and there are organizations
as well, that we collaboratedwith to do that panel. But in
terms of other collaborations,we have many one of them is
uniting us, the artsorganization that we are
collaborating with. And we'll bedoing a series of events this
coming June, to highlightveterans who are artists and how
(37:03):
they use art to heal and dealwith the invisible wounds of
service. We also collaboratewith other groups, like the CO
girls, for one that was a anevent a group of women that we
highlighted a few years ago,which all spun out of a
researcher and author by thename of Liza Mundy, who was
doing research to highlight thestories of World War Two code
(37:26):
breakers, these women who weresecret code breakers for World
War Two, she found these storiesthat were pretty much hidden in
the basement. And so she wrotethis book, and got so much
attention from the stories,their families of the CO girls,
most of whom were deceased. Bythen we're reaching out to her
saying, Hey, I think my grandmawas one of these women. I think
(37:49):
my mom was one of these women,she told us she was a secretary.
But I found some pictures, Ifound some some documents in the
attic. And so all of that turnedinto the Library of Congress
hosting the first ever andprobably only national reunion
of the World War Two cold girlsand that collaboration is going
to go down in history is justbeing so awesome. We had about
(38:13):
five of them who are well enoughand able to travel to Washington
DC and be present. And thenfamily members of a lot of the
deceased women came and honoredtheir CO Girl by we did a nice
processional. And they allbrought a photo a framed photo
of her and processed and tohonor their memories, and they
all got certificates. And it wasjust really great. But that's
(38:37):
just a couple of stories and acouple of collaborations that we
have, but they are constantlycoming through these stories,
spark conversations, which turninto events and collaborations
with organizations all over the country.
Louis Celli (38:52):
I just want to say thank you so much for for coming
here and sharing, you know, thisthis project with us, it's it's
so meaningful, and it must be sofulfilling to work in it. And
you know, with your permission,I think we'd like to invite you
guys back later. So that, youknow, maybe we can hear just,
you know, a podcast about someof the stories and maybe even
(39:12):
have some of the some of theinterviewees as guests as well.
You know, I think our listenerswould really like to hear a
little bit more about some ofthe some of the more interesting
stories and they don't alwayshave to be stories about you
know, extreme heroism they canbe Everyday Stories from from
people who've been able tonavigate military service and
(39:32):
come out on the other side. So Ijust want to thank you again for
for being here. And, you know,before we go carry, we can start
with you. There's anything wemissed. We always like to give
our guests the last word. Isthere anything that we may have
not touched on or that you'dlike to add?
Kerry Ward (39:50):
You know, we could be here all day talking about
different stories. But the lastthing I think I'll say and I
really want to leave anylisteners with is the fact that
the stories in the collectionthat we have at the Library of
Congress do not just sit on theshelves, collecting dust. In
fact, they are used every singleday by researchers,
documentarians, and authors. AsLisa had mentioned, occasionally
(40:14):
there are opportunities to beused in different displays
across the country. And on very,very, very rare occasion. They
give an opportunity to reallyhighlight veterans and their
service. I included in that asthe story of Charles kettles,
Lieutenant Colonel Charleskettles who's credited for
saving over 40 men's lives inVietnam. And after the
(40:36):
interviewer had heard his story,he went to his local member of
Congress, they started workingon it, and 50 years after the
fact, Lieutenant Colonel Charleskettles received the Medal of
Honor, again, a very rareexample. But it really does
showcase what you're doing whenyou help us collect these
stories.
Dr. David Shulkin (40:53):
Well, thank you again, keep up the great
work. And we're so glad that youare continuing to do the things
you're doing. Thank you forjoining us.
Kerry Ward (41:04):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Lisa Wright (41:06):
Thanks for having us.
Louis Celli (41:09):
And that really is all the time that we have for
this week. He listened. Join usnext week. You're not going to
want to miss this episode. Wehave retired Lieutenant Colonel
Alexander vindman. Alexandervindman, was the former director
of European Affairs at theNational Security Council, and
he was born in Ukraine. He ranthe Russia desk, and he's going
to fill us in on what's goingon. We'll see you next week.
Charlie Malone (41:33):
Thanks for listening to the policy. That's
podcasts. For more informationabout projects and other
podcasts. Go to policy. That'sdot org.
Thinking about future generations. And having
this information, these voices,these stories, these pictures,
these diaries and journals andmilitary documents preserved so
that like those other items thatKerry mentioned earlier that the
Library of Congress has, thesestories will still be here, just
like those future generationswill be able to look them up,
(00:24):
hear their voices, see what theyand hear what they had to say
about their military life. Butnot only that, for the veterans
who participate, it's anopportunity for them. They may
not exist anywhere else to telltheir own story, in their own
words in their own way.
Charlie Malone (00:42):
Welcome to Season Two of the policy vets
podcast, engaging with leaders,scholars and strong voices to
fill a void in support of PolicyDevelopment for America's
veterans. With your host, formerSecretary of Veterans Affairs,
Dr. David Chilton, and theexecutive director of policy.
That's Louis Celli. Today'sguests, Carrie Ward, Lisa
(01:02):
Taylor, of the Library ofCongress, Veterans History
Project.
Louis Celli (01:10):
Mr. Secretary, a couple of weeks ago, you made a
comment that the American peoplesometimes have short memories
when it comes to remembering thesacrifices of our veterans, you
know, if it isn't appearing onthe news every night? Yeah,
Dr. David Shulkin (01:22):
well, that's true. And it certainly comes to
the way people formulateopinions. But when it comes to
personal memories, or familymemories, those are things that
go on, or passed by generationsand go on for a long time. And
so I think it's these personalstories that we hear from
(01:43):
veterans that are really notonly family treasures, but also
national treasures.
Louis Celli (01:48):
That's a really good point. I mean, when you
were a VA, you know, did youever have time to just sit with
veterans and listen to theirstories? And you know, I'm not
talking about their experiencesat VA, but you know, some of
their personal militaryjourneys,
Dr. David Shulkin (02:00):
oh, yeah, it was one of my favorite things to
do particularly, to spend timewith the World War Two veterans,
because, you know, so many ofthem never really shared their
stories with their families,they just came back and didn't
talk about it a lot. But when Iwould get to spend time with
them, they would feel verycomfortable. And particularly,
(02:22):
when I would put on my whitecoat and take care of them as
their doctor in a VA. That'swhen they really feel
comfortable talking about theirstories, there's something about
when they come into the VAMedical Center, it sort of frees
them to go back in time andshare their stories, because
they know everybody around them,understands what they're talking
(02:44):
about.
Louis Celli (02:45):
You know, I've been in VA facilities all around the
country. I've visited militaryinstallations all around the
world, I can tell you that everyveteran has a story.
Dr. David Shulkin (02:53):
Yeah, that's true. You know, one of the one
of the great things that I thinkis happening at VA, is that they
are digitizing the nationalcemeteries. And what does that
mean? That means that sinceevery veteran who has passed has
a story, the VA is getting thosestories on a digital format, so
(03:19):
that when schoolchildren andfamily members and other people
were interested, go to a VAcemetery, they can actually pull
up those digital files and hearthat veterans story. And I think
it's similar to what we're goingto hear about today, with the
Library of Congress's efforts tocatalogue a lot of these
(03:40):
stories. But you know, that it'sone of the great things that a
country can do is to memorializewhen somebody has dedicated
their life and sacrificed fortheir country to get their
story, to be able to live onforever.
Louis Celli (03:55):
You're right. I absolutely love that. As a
matter of fact, that was apersonal project of a good
friend of ours, the HonorableRandy Reeves, and you know, some
of the stories are hard to hearsomebody can laugh, and but
they're always interesting.
They're, they're alwayssomething that you find at the
end of the story. You werereally glad for having listened.
Dr. David Shulkin (04:16):
Yeah, and especially to family members who
have lost somebody. You know,there are times I'm sure that it
feels like nobody cares. Nobodyremembers the sacrifice that
that family went through. And sohaving that story down there and
knowing that other people aretaking the time to hear about
that important life, and whatthey did sacrifice, I think is
(04:39):
really an obligation that wehave, and I'm so glad that VA
has embraced that mission andcontinues that important work.
Louis Celli (04:48):
You know, as generations pass, you know,
sometimes they they take thishistory with them and many of
these stories are lost forever.
Just a few months ago, we lost areally important piece of that
history Max clean And SenatorCleveland lit a truly impactful
life.
Dr. David Shulkin (05:04):
Yeah, I think that's right. He was an amazing
not only Senator but but alsohad a big impact, as you know,
as a VA administrator. And thatjust seems like this past year,
we've lost so many of thesegreat giants, whether it was Bob
(05:25):
Dole, or Johnny Isakson, youknow, so many people that have
just, it was that generation ofjust truly amazing people. And,
you know, I think we have acurrent generation, that's
amazing, too. And hopefully,they'll be celebrated when, when
(05:45):
their time comes as well. But,but it's so important for us to
remember the contributions ofothers.
Louis Celli (05:52):
You know, I didn't, I didn't get to meet Senator
Cleveland until after he hadleft the Senate when he was with
the few American battlesmonument commission. And we're
just really lucky that he hadthe foresight to, to really be a
major contributor and back theproject. We're about to heat
we're, you know, we're going tohear about today.
Dr. David Shulkin (06:10):
Yeah, yeah.
I, I think that this issomething that many people don't
know about, that the Library ofCongress has its own special
initiative for veterans. Andit's, it's really important
work. And we want everybody toknow about it, because we want
people to know that there's away that they can record their
(06:32):
stories and get them to live onfor future generations.
Louis Celli (06:38):
Now, exactly. To your point, this has been going
on for two decades. It startedin 2000. So, you know, they've
got already got 1000s of hoursof audio and video and pictures
and stories of veterans. And alot of people don't know about
this.
Dr. David Shulkin (06:53):
Yeah. And of course, you know, you're the one
who brought this to myattention. So how did you
connect with Lisa and Carrie,that we're going to hear from
today?
Louis Celli (07:03):
That's a really great question. It just comes
from being involved in thecommunity I sit on, I sit on a
board that features veteransartwork, and the library has
invited this organization, it'scalled uniting us, and has
invited them to bring theirartwork and and display it for
the public. Right out on theFourth of July. I mean, one of
(07:24):
the most popular times at theLibrary of Congress is going to
be open. And through that iswhen I learned about the
Veterans History Project. And Iwas really taken aback and I was
a little embarrassed that Ididn't know more about it. And I
just thought it was importantthat you know that we that we
invite them in and let them tellour listeners a little bit more
about what they're doing.
Dr. David Shulkin (07:43):
Yeah, that's right, Lou, I remember we did
that podcast with uniting uslast year. And it's it's just
always amazing to me, thewonderful pockets of talent that
are out there, who are givingback to our veteran communities
and really making this such asuch a rich and robust group of
(08:05):
people that are out there whocare so much about these
Americans who have sacrificed
Louis Celli (08:11):
Well, you know, capturing these stories, and all
of this really rich history isjust so important. So why don't
we get Lisa and Carrie in here?
And let's get started. Allright,
Dr. David Shulkin (08:19):
let's go.
Louis Celli (08:28):
Hey, Lisa Carrie, welcome to the policy vets
podcast. Thanks for taking thetime to join us today. We really
appreciate it.
Lisa Wright (08:34):
Thanks for having us. We really appreciate being
here.
Kerry Ward (08:37):
We're very happy to be here.
Dr. David Shulkin (08:38):
Well, I also to want to welcome you to the
podcast. And it amazes me thatso many people have never heard
about the Veterans HistoryProject. That's why we wanted to
have you both on this morning.
So maybe Lisa could start withyou. Can you tell us a little
bit about yourself and why yougot involved in this project and
how long you've been involved?
Lisa Wright (09:00):
Absolutely. I'm a native Washingtonian. I am a
proud product of DC publicschools. I attended two HBCUs,
Howard University and BowieState University. So my
background is communicationsjournalism specifically. And I
came to this project afterspending about 20 years in the
(09:22):
nonprofit world as acommunications expert and
fundraiser. And when I heardabout this position, and being
open, it felt like such a goodfit for me because it's so
mission oriented. So it justfelt like home. And I really
love being here and been herefor about 12 and a half years.
And I feel like it's gonna be amuch longer time that I spent
(09:43):
here. It's a it's a great placeto work the Library of Congress.
And this project just makes iteven more special.
Dr. David Shulkin (09:50):
Yeah, I think that I'm always amazed at how
many people visit Washington butdon't go visit the Library of
Congress building I happen tothink it's actually the most
magnificent building inWashington that's open to the
public. And so I encouragepeople if they've not had a
chance to do that to get overthere. Carrie, how about you?
How long have you been involved?
And tell us a little bit aboutyourself?
Kerry Ward (10:14):
Sure. Well, I am originally from Arizona, where I
had studied psychology in prelaw. But you know, life does not
always take us on a linear path.
I eventually started workingwith aviation event management
with the United States Navy andMarine Corps Blue Angels and
Thunderbirds manage also aveteran service outreach program
that utilized a world war two b25, Mitchell bomber, traveled
(10:37):
the country in order to driveattention to the assistance that
they provided veterans. Andalthough that beautiful piece of
machinery was a great way toattract veterans and the public,
it was really the veterans andtheir stories that not only
compelled me, but also compelledothers to further talk about how
they could be helped by thisorganization. So before I had
(11:00):
even heard about VeteransHistory Project, I was doing
something a little bit similar.
I was sitting down and talkingto these veterans, interviewing
them, getting to know what theirhistory was like, and then
sharing it with their community.
Once I found out a little bitmore about Veterans History
Project, I knew that that wassomething that I would have to
be involved with. Lisa and I areboth liaison specialists with
(11:23):
the Veterans History Project.
And although we have the samejob title, we get to do slightly
different things. For instance,I get to specialize in the Gold
Star family members, whereasLisa gets to specialize in the
scouts.
Louis Celli (11:38):
Terry, if you don't mind, the Secretary really
brings up a very good point. Andthat is the Library of Congress,
while while visited by a greatnumber of people each year and
visitors to our nation's capitolisn't one of the main
attractions. Would you mindtelling us, you know, just a
little bit more about what theLibrary of Congress is?
Kerry Ward (11:59):
Absolutely. I love that the Secretary said it was
one of his favorite buildings inWashington, DC, because I always
feel that I may be a bit biased,but I think it's the most
beautiful building inWashington, DC, the photos, the
art, the architecture, all of ithas an overarching theme of
storytelling that's built rightinto the art and architecture.
(12:21):
And that's part of why thelibrary put such an emphasis on
preserving and archivingnarratives. When we're able to
share and archive the stories,it helps us preserve our
culture. And it aids us inreally understanding our past so
that we can better prepare forour future. The Library of
Congress is the oldest federaland cultural institution, and we
are the world's preeminentreservoir of knowledge providing
(12:43):
unparalleled integratedresources to Congress and the
American people. I love to putthat plug in because we really
are the people's library. And sowe invite everybody listening to
take a look at the resourcesavailable both online at Loc for
library of congress.gov or inperson. Now, if you're anything
(13:04):
like me, when you hear Libraryof Congress, you automatically
think books, right. And while wedo have a magnificent collection
of over 14 million catalog booksin print materials, that is only
a small fraction of the over 170million items that the Library
of Congress has. If you likecomic books, we have the largest
(13:25):
collection of comic books in theworld. If you like music, we
have the Stradivarius violins.
If you're interested incartography, we have the Walter
Mueller map, which is the firsttime that the word America
appeared on a map. And if youlike memories, we have the
Veterans History Project.
Dr. David Shulkin (13:44):
So is it is it true that every book that's
published is is in the Libraryof Congress? Or is it a select
group of books and other typesof materials?
Kerry Ward (13:56):
That's a great question that actually comes
from our copyright office. So inaddition to all those items that
I mentioned, part of the reasonthat we have that number is
because we have the copyrightoffice at the Library of
Congress. And so anything thatis published and has a copyright
on it is at the Library ofCongress. If it's self
published, then we perhaps maynot have it. Sure.
Louis Celli (14:17):
Lusa Veterans History Project is really unique
at the library. How did it getstarted?
Lisa Wright (14:23):
It got started back in 2001. Prior to that, Ron came
from Wisconsin CongressmanRankine was at a family backyard
barbecue with his World War Twoera dad and uncle who were
swapping war stories as they hadtended to do at family events.
At the time, Ron kinds childrenwere very young running around
(14:47):
playing. And he was listening tothese stories. And then he
thought, my kids are too youngto really understand this
conversation. But one day,they're going to want to know
what these great heroes had tosay. And so he asked To pause
the conversation, ran into thehouse, get the video camera,
which is what most folks useback then. And he came back out
(15:09):
and said, Okay, start over. Andso he recorded their
conversation so that he couldpreserve it for his own family's
history so that his children andtheir children can hear these
stories. And he thought that itwould be really great if folks
all over the country had anopportunity to do this for their
families, but not only for theirfamilies, but so that this
(15:31):
information could be preservedsomeplace and thought about
where could this live so thatfuture generations can access
all of these stories. And hewent back wrote up the
legislation, the idea wasoriginally jotted down on a
paper napkin, so that he wouldnot forget and we still have
that napkin. He jotted it down,went back, got the legislation
(15:53):
written, it passed unanimously,surprise, unanimous legislation
passed. And we were up andrunning. In 2001. We were
initially intended to be a fiveyear project that was intended
to basically capture the storiesof World War Two era veterans,
because at that time, of course,they were aging. And we were
(16:15):
concerned about getting thesestories while we could. Five
years went by the popularity wassteadily growing, and people
were interested in preservingeven more stories of Korea War
and Vietnam War era vets, andjust on and on, and we
continuously got renewed and weare still here now. 21 years
later.
Dr. David Shulkin (16:33):
Wow, what a great story. Lisa, I I have to
get a pile of napkins, because Ialways my ideas I always think
are great, but I forget aboutthem the next day. So So you
know, what one day the goalwould be to have my napkin in
the Library of Congress?
Absolutely. How do you how doyou find the veterans to
(16:55):
interview how the how do youknow who's got these great
stories out there that you wantto capture?
Lisa Wright (17:03):
So the great thing about this project is that it is
grassroots. It's totallyvolunteer based. So we have a
very small team fewer than 20people. So our job is to present
the information, and thenarchive it and process it and
make it accessible. We put theinformation out there so that
people can sit down with theirown veterans, if you have a
(17:24):
veteran that you know, ifthere's one in your family, your
household, your community, evenif there are other organizations
around you, or places thatveterans may be, then you can
interview those veterans on yourown, we have a full kit is what
we call our little booklet ofinstructions that walks you
through this entire easy tofollow process. So you can sit
(17:45):
down at your veterans kitchentable, living room sofa and have
a very informal conversation ororal history interview, to talk
to them about their life before,during and after military
service so that we get the fullarc of their story. And so we
don't really need to hot forveterans there. There. There are
(18:06):
over 20 million living wartimeveterans out here. Our challenge
is more so finding volunteers toactually sit down with the
veteran in their life andinterview that veteran and then
submit that story to us.
Louis Celli (18:21):
You know, carry when you were talking earlier, I
I was a little surprised at thediversity and all the different
things that the library does.
I've been there on a couple ofdifferent occasions for
different reasons. I've evenbeen there for private events
where they close it off, and itis a magnificent and beautiful
building. But does the libraryhave other projects like this?
Sure.
Kerry Ward (18:41):
So the Veterans History Project technically
falls underneath the umbrella ofthe American Folklife summer
center. And under the AmericanFolklife Center, we have a
number of different oral historyprojects, including the slave
narratives, we have occupationalfolklife poetry, we have civil
rights oral history project, andwe also are the home to story
(19:03):
court if you're familiar withthem. The difference is that
with the Veterans HistoryProject, we're not run by
professional oral historians.
but rather as Lisa mentioned,it's the individuals and
organizational volunteers acrossthe nation that helped to sit
down and learn a little bit morefrom those veterans and
voluntarily submit those to theLibrary of Congress. The other
(19:23):
thing that makes us somewhatunique is that with the
Copyright Office underneath theLibrary of Congress, we are kind
of sticklers for copyright. Andso we consider ourselves the
keepers of said stories, but notthe owners of the stories. So
what that means is if somebodywants to use these collections,
we work with researchers,documentarians, authors, if they
(19:44):
want to use it for somethingother than strictly educational
purposes, we send them back tothe veteran or back to their
next of kin to get permission.
Dr. David Shulkin (19:55):
I'm wondering whether the pandemic has
impacted your ability tocontinue this work and to be
able to continue the catalogue,great stories that that people
want to give has it changed theway that you have to do things?
Kerry Ward (20:10):
Well, I think the pandemic has affected all of our
lives in different ways. Andcertainly we were not exempt to
that. We had to pivot somewhat.
But what it allowed us to do wasto really kind of shift focus,
and dig deep and come up withsome really creative ways to
present collections. Our missionwith the Veterans History
Project is to collect, preserveand make accessible the
(20:30):
firsthand memories of ournation's veterans. So part of
what we were able to do, you wasreally focused on different
ways, as I mentioned, to presentthese existing collections
through things like virtualstory maps, presentations, blog
posts, and more. And in someways that actually helped us and
a great instance of this, asLisa mentioned, we're on our
21st year. And so we justcelebrated our 20th anniversary,
(20:53):
and we were able to do that witha series of virtual panel
discussions and musicalperformances. And because we
shifted to a virtual platform,it allowed us to connect with a
more diverse group from acrossthe country. It also pushed us
to sit down and learn, documentand share about both virtual and
in person at a distanceinterviews, which are resources
(21:16):
we now have readily availablefor anybody who's interested via
our blog at loc dot govt forwardslash, Betsy ETS,
Louis Celli (21:27):
Lisa, Carrie brings up a really important point
about things like copyright andbeing charged with, you know,
protecting the, you know, thedata that you guys collect. And
even though it's available tothe public, it doesn't mean that
the public can just, you know,rip down somebody's interview
and use it in their own Tik Tokvideo for their own purposes or
(21:48):
for you know, for whatever theywant. So, what's it like to be
charged with a project likethis? I mean, why, why something
like this so important anyway,
Lisa Wright (21:58):
it's so important for so many reasons, Lou, for
one, we're thinking about notjust today's researchers, not
just today's loved ones of theseveterans who are still living or
recently passed, but we'rethinking about future
generations. And having thisinformation, these voices, these
stories, these pictures, thesediaries, and journals and
(22:20):
military documents preserved sothat like those other items that
carry mentioned earlier that theLibrary of Congress has, these
stories will still be here, justlike those. And so in order to
do that, we take it veryseriously the whole preservation
process of these items, andfuture generations, we'll be
able to look them up, hear theirvoices, see what they and hear
(22:43):
what they had to say about theirmilitary life. But not only
that, for the veterans whoparticipate, it's an opportunity
for them, they may not existanywhere else to tell their own
story, in their own words, intheir own way. So we don't have
a scripted process for them tofollow, we do have some
suggested interview questionsthat folks can use when they get
(23:05):
our field kit to help themunderstand what kinds of things
that kind of pull out theconversation, but the veteran
can talk about whatever theywant. And so for a lot of
veterans, this is the only timethey have ever spoken about what
they experienced in themilitary. And of course, not
every veteran saw combat, noteveryone had a horrific war tale
that you may think of when youthink of a veteran's service.
(23:27):
But some had other roles in themilitary that were just as
important that helped themilitary work. And so we often
overlook those veterans whoweren't officers or who weren't
on the frontlines. This projectallows those who were cooks, or
had other mechanical jobs orother things like that in the
background that you don't hearabout so much. And a lot of
(23:50):
times, they're so humble, andmany of them, even some of our
women veterans don't even feellike they are a veteran because
of that perception. But thisproject allows them to say, Hey,
I did serve my country I did puton that uniform, I raised my
right hand, I took that oath.
And my story is just asimportant as everyone else's.
And it's going to be preservedforever at the Library of
(24:11):
Congress with everyone else's.
And so we have a chance to givethem that opportunity. And then
for the volunteer who collectsthat story, who sits down to
interview that loved one or thatcolleague or that neighbor, they
become part of history as well,because their name is forever
associated with that veteranstory and their record that gets
(24:32):
served get that gets preservedat the Library of Congress,
which makes them a primarysource contributor to the
Library of Congress. So anybodywho's aged 15 or older, can
volunteer to participate as aninterviewer. And any veteran who
served at any point from WorldWar One through more recent
conflicts and is now separatedfrom service. They can
(24:53):
participate. So it's a prettybroad spectrum of participants
and those researchers who cometo us looking for the authentic
stories, appreciate the factthat we have all kinds of
stories from all walks of life,and that they're unedited. And
those items are original. And sothey they know that we've got
the authentic, authentic storiesavailable for them.
Dr. David Shulkin (25:16):
Well, I think both of you have gotten our
listeners hooked. So how doesthe public go about accessing
and watching these videos?
Carrie, maybe you could tell usabout that
Kerry Ward (25:28):
I would be happy to.
So one way to access thecollections is via our website,
which again can be found at Locfor Library of Congress dot govt
for a government entity. Andthen forward slash events V ETS.
On there, you'll find both thearchival side as well as the
participatory side of ourarchive. And out of those
112,000 collections, many ofthem have some form of digitized
(25:51):
content that's available via ourwebsite. So when you log on, you
can literally go on and watch1000s of hours of oral
histories, you can view 1000s ofphotographs, diaries, letters,
journal entries, and more.
Another way to access thecollections is because not all
(26:12):
of our content is digitallyavailable, we do have folks who
come to the Library of Congressin person and come to the
American Folklife Center wherethey can have the collection
served, and they can view themin person. And they're the real
collections right there. We doask for approximately seven days
notice in order for us to readythe collections, but you can
(26:34):
feel free to email us and wewould be happy to go ahead and
set that up. You can email us atVO HP at loc dot govt
Louis Celli (26:43):
it's so important, you know, someday 100 200 Maybe
300 years from now, you knowsome family from Massachusetts
or Indiana or Guam or, you know,they're going to come to DC and
be able to listen to theirgreat, great great, great
grandmother, or, you know, someuncle that that was related to
(27:06):
them, and just listen to theirtheir honest story right there
at the library. And I mean, 300years from now, there'll be some
other, you know, hyper cooltechnology where they'll be able
to come to life in some way. Butyou know, all that being said,
it's got to start somewhere. AndI almost want to say shame on us
for just starting now, you know,we've got 20 years behind us.
(27:28):
But we've got, you know, over150 years, you know more than
that of veterans history. Sowhat's the best way for people
now during the pandemic, to getengaged with this.
Lisa Wright (27:40):
So the best way for folks is to look around them and
think about who do I know whoserved in the US military, who's
now out of service. So they'renow considered a veteran. And
we'll use the same definition ofa veteran as the VA. Once they
find out who that person is,they ask for their permission,
of course, to share their story.
And then they just get arecording device. Most of us are
(28:03):
walking around with one in ourpocket, or our purse right now
we've all got it within a handslimped away. That camera and
that audio recorder on yourdevice can be used to preserve
that story. So you just sit downwith a field kit that we
mentioned, that gives you allthe instructions, it has some
(28:23):
required forms that we need youto submit with that collection.
And for at least 30 minutes, youhave a conversation with that
veteran and ask them a series ofquestions about their their
military service and what madethem decide to go in whether
nothing was drafted, what theirbasic training was, like what
their first duty assignment was,like, what it is they did
(28:45):
throughout the military. Andthen as they came to transition
out, whether that was throughretirement or not whatever
discharge process they wentthrough, and then what life was
like for them when they returnedto civilian life. So that
conversation is just recorded,stored on either a flash drive
or some other technology that wementioned in the field kit, like
(29:06):
a DVD or CD. And then you shipthat recording on edited along
with those forms to us bycommercial delivery. We receive
it, we process it, it takes usabout at this point about a year
from the time we receive it tothe time you can go on our
website and go to our searchableonline database and find that
veterans record so every veteranwho participates with us gets a
(29:30):
summary service record on thatwebsite. And so that's the
official record saying thisveteran story lives at the
Library of Congress. And it'sthat easy to do. So that's why
we start the minimum age at 15.
And anyone can participate. Youdon't have to be a professional
historian. You don't have toknow a lot about technology or,
(29:55):
you know, audio recordingdevices. Any of that stuff. You
don't have to be ken burns youjust need To be a good listener,
and someone who can followsimple instructions as a series
of questions, and ship the stuffto us, it's very, very easy to
do.
Dr. David Shulkin (30:11):
So, Terry, can you tell us one of your
favorite stories of of a veteranwho has contributed?
Kerry Ward (30:19):
I love that question. Because, you know, my
favorite changes on a day to daybasis, it changes with the wind.
But today, I think I'm going tofeature one of our collections
that's from World War One. We wehad mentioned that our
collections start with World WarOne and go all the way through
current conflicts. And one ofthe things we did not mention is
(30:39):
that you can submit posthumouscollections through the form of
photographs, letters, journals,diaries, even two dimensional
pieces of artwork. Thecollection I'm going to share
today is that of Albert, JohnCarpenter, who was a 19 year old
college student, when he headedoff to France to fight in the
Great War. And he took with hima pocket diary about the size of
(31:01):
our cell phones today. And hestarts his diary with October,
the most eventful month of mylife. And he goes on, he talks
about the gassing, he talksabout the money, he talks about
his buddies that were lost, andhe comes home. And like so many
other veterans, he just tosseshis diary away. And, you know,
(31:21):
he just puts it in a closet andforgets about it never goes back
and revisits what his servicewas like. And sometime after his
passing his, his daughter inlaw, actually was the one who
told the family, hey, I reallythink we need to do something
with this, we're doing it adisservice with it just sitting
here, it's got tears, it's gotwater damage. It's all loose
(31:43):
leaf at this point, we know thatwe're not the only repository or
archive out there. And we'revery grateful that they chose to
donate this collection to us.
Because as we heard fromShirley, Hurricane Katrina had
paid her family a little visit.
And it wiped out everything thatwas down in the basement. And
when she No, that was the exactlocation where the diary had
(32:06):
been stored previously. Now,because this was one of the
collections that was featured inone of our exhibits, we were
able to repair a lot of thedamage that it had to the
journal. So our preservation andconservation labs, were able to
take Japanese tissue paper andrepair the tears. They took a
proprietary chemical, put itover the pages in which the they
(32:29):
were too badly water damaged,and which you couldn't read what
was intended to be written. Andwith the proprietary chemical
under ultraviolet light, for thefirst time ever, you were able
to extract what was intended tobe written on those pages. So
now, we have a humiditycontrolled and climate
controlled environment thathouses all of our collections,
(32:50):
to make sure that they're notlost to history.
Louis Celli (32:53):
Lisa, what about you, and I'm sure that you've
heard hundreds and hundreds ofstories, it must be some, you
know, that really resonated andreally stuck with you. So, you
know, we're, we're just aboutout of time, but I really want
to hear about some of thestories that that you've heard.
And then if you could follow upa little bit about, you know,
how the, how the library isactually promoting this project?
Lisa Wright (33:16):
Absolutely. Like Carrie says, so many come to
mind. So the ones that I'mthinking of today are a few that
I just interviewed within thelast year, one sometimes just
because of the story. Andsometimes it's an image that's
just so striking that it juststicks with you when you see the
veterans picture. And for RaquelRiley Thomas, it was both her
(33:38):
story and one of her photos asjust a bit. She was She is a
veteran who became a beautypageant queen. And one of the
photos she submitted to us wasdone by professional, but they
took a shot of her and fullcamouflage, including her face.
And the other half of her is inher full beauty queen gown and
her crown and everything. Andit's kind of a split photo. And
(34:01):
that image sticks with you whenyou see it. It's beautiful. And
it's so striking. But I had theprivilege of interviewing her
last year. And she already had astory on file with us. And she
sat down with me again, to do avirtual one. And her story was
just amazing. She she grew up,went to college, and then joined
(34:22):
the military became a photojournalist. And she's, you know,
she's gorgeous, by the way, soshe was modeling and doing all
kinds of things, had her ownfamily and had two daughters.
And one day one of her daughterssaid, Well, Mom, why don't any
of the Disney Princesses looklike me? Raquel is African
American, and her children aretoo and she was so saddened by
(34:45):
the fact that she didn't haveany princesses to show her
daughter she decided to becomeone. And so she got into the
beauty pageant world won allsorts of crimes. competitions
and Putin, including Mrs.
Maryland. And they even made aBarbie doll in her image, which
she keeps at home, which is socool to me. So when I
interviewed her, she showed mesome of those things. And that
(35:07):
story just sticks out and she'sa really amazing woman
entrepreneur started severalorganizations. She's a mentor
and doing all kinds of greatthings to uplift women and women
veterans as well. One otherquick story that I just
interviewed around this timelast year, was a gentleman named
Justin Butz, who is a veteranNavy veteran and a farmer. We
(35:30):
did a full panel last year onveterans who farm as just one
option that veterans have whenthey leave military service. And
Justin was one of those whoagreed to participate. He had
grown up pretty poor. And hisgrandfather taught him how to
farm as a little boy, he spent alot of time with his granddad,
he had no idea he would end upcircling back and making that
(35:53):
profession. I think he was awrestler or something in high
school, he was pretty big, wentinto the Navy, big, strong guy
loved his military service. Buthe got sick with an autoimmune
disorder while he was in themilitary, and unfortunately had
to leave due to medical reasons.
And so he decided to go become achef, he went to culinary
(36:17):
school. But the call to farmingjust kept pulling him back. And
so today, he is a farmer inupstate New York. He's teaching
people how to farm, people fromurban communities come through
just to learn and see what'sgoing on on the farm. And the
stories that he tells about justlife as a farmer are so amazing.
And you don't really think ofveterans going into a path like
(36:41):
that. But there are so many outhere and there are organizations
as well, that we collaboratedwith to do that panel. But in
terms of other collaborations,we have many one of them is
uniting us, the artsorganization that we are
collaborating with. And we'll bedoing a series of events this
coming June, to highlightveterans who are artists and how
(37:03):
they use art to heal and dealwith the invisible wounds of
service. We also collaboratewith other groups, like the CO
girls, for one that was a anevent a group of women that we
highlighted a few years ago,which all spun out of a
researcher and author by thename of Liza Mundy, who was
doing research to highlight thestories of World War Two code
(37:26):
breakers, these women who weresecret code breakers for World
War Two, she found these storiesthat were pretty much hidden in
the basement. And so she wrotethis book, and got so much
attention from the stories,their families of the CO girls,
most of whom were deceased. Bythen we're reaching out to her
saying, Hey, I think my grandmawas one of these women. I think
(37:49):
my mom was one of these women,she told us she was a secretary.
But I found some pictures, Ifound some some documents in the
attic. And so all of that turnedinto the Library of Congress
hosting the first ever andprobably only national reunion
of the World War Two cold girlsand that collaboration is going
to go down in history is justbeing so awesome. We had about
(38:13):
five of them who are well enoughand able to travel to Washington
DC and be present. And thenfamily members of a lot of the
deceased women came and honoredtheir CO Girl by we did a nice
processional. And they allbrought a photo a framed photo
of her and processed and tohonor their memories, and they
all got certificates. And it wasjust really great. But that's
(38:37):
just a couple of stories and acouple of collaborations that we
have, but they are constantlycoming through these stories,
spark conversations, which turninto events and collaborations
with organizations all over the country.
Louis Celli (38:52):
I just want to say thank you so much for for coming
here and sharing, you know, thisthis project with us, it's it's
so meaningful, and it must be sofulfilling to work in it. And
you know, with your permission,I think we'd like to invite you
guys back later. So that, youknow, maybe we can hear just,
you know, a podcast about someof the stories and maybe even
(39:12):
have some of the some of theinterviewees as guests as well.
You know, I think our listenerswould really like to hear a
little bit more about some ofthe some of the more interesting
stories and they don't alwayshave to be stories about you
know, extreme heroism they canbe Everyday Stories from from
people who've been able tonavigate military service and
(39:32):
come out on the other side. So Ijust want to thank you again for
for being here. And, you know,before we go carry, we can start
with you. There's anything wemissed. We always like to give
our guests the last word. Isthere anything that we may have
not touched on or that you'dlike to add?
Kerry Ward (39:50):
You know, we could be here all day talking about
different stories. But the lastthing I think I'll say and I
really want to leave anylisteners with is the fact that
the stories in the collectionthat we have at the Library of
Congress do not just sit on theshelves, collecting dust. In
fact, they are used every singleday by researchers,
documentarians, and authors. AsLisa had mentioned, occasionally
(40:14):
there are opportunities to beused in different displays
across the country. And on very,very, very rare occasion. They
give an opportunity to reallyhighlight veterans and their
service. I included in that asthe story of Charles kettles,
Lieutenant Colonel Charleskettles who's credited for
saving over 40 men's lives inVietnam. And after the
(40:36):
interviewer had heard his story,he went to his local member of
Congress, they started workingon it, and 50 years after the
fact, Lieutenant Colonel Charleskettles received the Medal of
Honor, again, a very rareexample. But it really does
showcase what you're doing whenyou help us collect these
stories.
Dr. David Shulkin (40:53):
Well, thank you again, keep up the great
work. And we're so glad that youare continuing to do the things
you're doing. Thank you forjoining us.
Kerry Ward (41:04):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Lisa Wright (41:06):
Thanks for having us.
Louis Celli (41:09):
And that really is all the time that we have for
this week. He listened. Join usnext week. You're not going to
want to miss this episode. Wehave retired Lieutenant Colonel
Alexander vindman. Alexandervindman, was the former director
of European Affairs at theNational Security Council, and
he was born in Ukraine. He ranthe Russia desk, and he's going
to fill us in on what's goingon. We'll see you next week.
Charlie Malone (41:33):
Thanks for listening to the policy. That's
podcasts. For more informationabout projects and other
podcasts. Go to policy. That'sdot org.
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