July 11, 2024 • 46 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carey (00:01):
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast.
I'm Carey Blackmon, here with myco host for the show, Jennifer
Bryant.
We're here to help you figureout how to raise the healthiest,
happiest, and highest qualitybirds possible.
Mm.
Monica (00:22):
The Poultry Nerds Podcast is brought to you, in
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Jennifer (00:43):
Okay.
Alright, so we're here todaywith David from Featherman
Equipment.
David, you want to introduceyourself and tell us about your
business?
David (00:52):
Thank you, Jennifer.
I'm David Schaefer withFeatherman Equipment.
The business supports smallfarmers like I was for 35 years.
Learned the hard way that Ilearned the easy way that I love
raising animals on pasture.
And when I finally raisedchickens that my customer base
just expanded exponentially fouryears in a row, it doubled the
(01:15):
only, only thing about chickens,you can have a great return, a
very short turnover cycle, sevenweeks and a few days They don't
kick or bite.
Easy to work with.
There's just one drawback andthat's getting the feathers off
and the guts out.
And there wasn't anything outthere for that when I first
started.
And we made a lot of our ownequipment and long story short
(01:37):
we stumbled into the business ofsolving the problems of
processing.
And it's been a business fromheaven.
We love it.
We feel very sympathetic withthe people that are, you're
doing it.
We're on a mission to heal landand put better food in front of
the, in front of people.
And just everybody raisingpoultry wants to do.
(02:00):
And so it's it's been a verygratifying journey.
Lots of twists and turns and.
And I had no idea I was evergoing to do it, but I'm loving
it.
Jennifer (02:09):
What kind of birds do you have?
David (02:11):
Right now I just have a small flock of Bielefelders that
my wife bought.
I never would have picked themout, but they're good birds.
But I always I only had a fewlayers in my past life.
This farm is, a hobby farm,obviously, the one I have now is
just eight acres, but I've beenon a couple of farms,
grandparents 520 acre farm waswhere I started and cut my teeth
(02:34):
and learn how city kid can makeevery mistake in the world, and
then I moved after 20 yearsthere to I did homestead, a
farm, built a straw bale homeoff the grid, composting
toilets, the whole thing.
And there I was raising athousand Cornish cross per year
on pasture.
And cause that was the legallimit.
And all my customers wanted thebirds sold out easiest.
(02:58):
And we're in the market for somenew layers.
And I'm not exactly sure whatkind, wifey's in charge of the
layers.
She picks them out.
I'm sorry.
Say again.
Jennifer (03:12):
What state are you in?
David (03:14):
We're in Florida now, central Florida.
We've been here for two years.
It's hot as can be right now.
I don't know how people work allday.
I really don't.
I came in at 8:30 this morningdripping and I went back out for
a little bit more, but it'srough.
Maybe I'm soft, I don't know.
Jennifer (03:32):
No, Carey's in Alabama and I'm in Southern Middle
Tennessee and it is justsweltering.
David (03:37):
Yeah.
And
Jennifer (03:40):
where are you
David (03:40):
Carey?
Carey (03:41):
I'm right outside of Birmingham.
I try to get the things that Ineed to get done.
Before seven, eight o'clock inthe morning.
David (03:48):
Exactly.
Carey (03:49):
And then I venture out again about five, four or five
o'clock in the afternoon.
Yep.
Some days, not going to lie.
I'll be out in my chicken yardwith a headlamp because it's
hot.
Yeah, I get it.
David (04:02):
It got really hot in North Missouri, 107, 109.
I just don't ever remember beingthis hot though.
And consistently for so manydays, there were only a few days
of the year.
In Missouri where it didn't getinto the seventies at night.
And we haven't had that yet hereeither, but still, it just I
don't know.
Carey (04:22):
It's just, it's the humidity.
Yes, it is.
In, in the South, Florida,Alabama, our humidity is
regularly 80 plus, even inTennessee where Jennifer is.
My father, he lives up inMissouri and their humidity is
nowhere near that high.
And to me, that's what really,that's what really hurts you.
(04:46):
Is the humidity not so much theheat?
David (04:48):
Yeah, you can't cool.
You can't cool.
Jennifer (04:51):
You did the thousand cornish
Carey (04:53):
All
Jennifer (04:55):
right, and you did not have processing equipment.
How are you doing yourprocessing?
David (05:00):
I was lucky enough in 1993 To go to the auction of
Alice's poultry in Chilicothe,Missouri, and I bought Virtually
all their stuff.
And this was a little shop that,was engaged in commerce and
people would bring in chickensand I don't know what they
charged a buck and a quarter orsomething.
And they put them in wonder bagsand a wonder bread bags, so I
(05:23):
bought a couple of big scaldpots like 20 quart pots.
I bought a drum roller plucker.
So it was, it's about as big asa toaster with fingers sticking
out that rolls and you hold thebird and feathers get all over
you.
And so I had my scalder, I had apot, and I had the the plucker.
and I had and I think I bought,yeah, I know I bought a, like a
(05:43):
handful of really terrible oldwood and wired crates,
transportation crates.
So that got me started.
And what a painful start.
Most people earn their stripesthat way with a very
unsophisticated set up and youcan do it by hand.
You can do it in a pot with awood fire and you just you make
(06:05):
mistake, you make more, you makea lot of mistakes and you have
some birds that lose their skin.
You have birds that you got toput cold feathers forever.
And that, that's how I did it ona very cheap budget.
And then I was involved in afarmers group, Green Hills Farm
Project.
They're still going on.
We were all about grass farmingand six of us went together and
(06:27):
built a mobile processing unitand we got a grant.
The first SARE grant, it wasactually called LISA back then,
Low Input SustainableAgriculture, the very first
series of grants.
We won some money.
We bought a 750 pick wick.
Plucker, it was, I think, 48inches in diameter.
(06:48):
And we built our own dunkingapparatus.
We made a scalder out of a 55gallon barrel and two, 3000 watt
heat elements.
We put a lot of effort intothat, put it all on a trailer.
We were going to move it aroundfrom farm to farm.
It never moved.
It was just big and clunky andawkward.
I've got pictures of it, but itgot the job done.
Lots of mistakes.
(07:09):
The biggest being that thisplucker was designed for 15
birds and we were putting infour.
And they were like kids on amerry go round.
They were not rolling, and I'mrubbing my hands together for
the people that don't havevisual on this, which I guess is
going to be everybody.
It needs, plucking needs to havethat action of the birds
touching each other.
That's why we tell people ifthey, the first question we ask,
(07:32):
if somebody calls up Feathermanand says Plucker's not working
right! Feathers are all left on.
And we said first question is,how many birds are you doing at
a time?
It's usually just one or two,and we tell them go ahead and
put four in there and see howthat works.
And that usually solves theirproblem.
Anyway we had to, we, it took usa long time to figure that out
on that first big plucker.
And finally, we did, and wedecided to go from four to eight
(07:57):
birds scalding.
That over faced our scaldermechanism, our dunking
apparatus.
We did build a cage to holdeight birds and we could get
them in there, but I had to helpthe darn thing go up and down,
so it was like lifting weights.
We did 160 birds a day and eightat a time.
What is that, 20 batches oflifting weights for a minute
each batch?
(08:18):
Screwed up my back.
I was, I couldn't get out ofbed.
And so then we went to see ourAmish neighbor down the road,
Ernie Kaufman and Ernie's familywas doing birds, I think for a
buck and a quarter.
We helped them.
They took 50 cents off for ushelping out.
And Ernie and I became greatfriends.
And he after I'm throwing thisall in at once on you, but Ernie
(08:39):
and I went to see an auction oldequipment not really old to us.
It was new.
But from a big outfit doingpheasants and quail in North
Missouri.
And it was, I bought a fewtransport coupes, but everything
else was way too expensive.
They had a giant stainless steelplucker and Ernie came home.
He said, I do believe I couldmake one of those because Ernie
was using one of these drumrollers, like I started out with
(09:01):
too, and he was good at it.
He could do a bird in 30seconds.
Darn if he didn't chop the endsoff of a 55 gallon plastic drum
set the fingers that he took offfrom his drum roller on a plate
on one of the lids, the bottomof the, this, the plucker, the
55 gallon plastic drum, cutholes, put those fingers in
(09:23):
there and made the first do ityourself homemade plucker.
I've made plans, sold plansthrough Farm Show Magazine for,
Five years, that was 1995.
I said, somebody ought todevelop this.
This was 1995.
I had no, no dreams, no interestin developing that, but I sold
lots of plans for five bucks.
And then one of those pluckersthat from those plans was used
(09:46):
with by Herrick Kimball, whowrote the anybody can build a
mechanical chicken plucker, alsoknown as the whiz bang book.
Pluckers and a lot of people, Ithink you have one of those,
Jennifer, I was just looking atyou on Facebook, your blue
pluckers.
Jennifer (10:00):
Yeah.
David (10:01):
Yeah, that's, that looks like a whizzbang pucker made
from those plans.
But you didn't know that Thegranddaddy of those was my Amish
buddy, Ernie.
Anyway, that was a really coolthing and that, that started me
thinking about that and I knowI've jumped off from the
original question, but I'll tellyou how we got an official
start.
(10:21):
The setup that we had that weused for the Greenhills Farm
Project worked okay with eight,but like I said, I hurt my back,
had to go through Ernie.
And other people kept using thethe machinery that we put
together on a trailer, but I wasgoing to Ernie for a while and
Ernie made this other pluckerand I developed plans for it.
And then I'm not sure, I thinkit was about 99.
(10:44):
Yeah, it was, must've been 1999when I was on a trip to Asia at
the Hong Kong farmers market.
I saw all these vendors there,lots and lots of vendors selling
their birds.
They'd bring in live birds,they'd take them to this room on
the first floor, giant threestory, like a giant parking lot,
(11:05):
this Hong Kong farmer's marketwas.
And on the first floor, they hadthis room out of Dante's Inferno
where they'd killed and scaldthe birds.
And that was something else.
They'd tie the chicken's feettogether, five, five birds.
And these all look like layersto me.
And then they'd throw them in abig cauldron, like a pot you can
cook a missionary in and stirthem around with a paddle, like
(11:29):
a rowboat paddle.
And that guy.
He knew exactly when they weredone.
The water looked nasty.
He had two of those big pots,and I forget what kind of fire,
I think he had some kind ofcoals underneath them.
But Ernie, by the way, alsoscalded with a wood fire.
And and then out of the scalder,they'd put him on this little
like a cart, like a dolly thatgoes underneath the car, and
(11:50):
then they'd, Pull those out andup some stairs and to their
little stalls where they had oneof these tiny pluckers, like I'd
never seen before, about a footand a half in diameter and
little electric pluckers andthey'd pluck them two at a time
and then polish them up.
(12:11):
Cause they didn't get a verygood job done and polish them
up.
And I said, isn't that neat?
And then we went on to my thenin laws house in Bali.
and stayed there for a week ortwo.
And on the way to the airportthe parents had to pick up
something at the hardware store.
And the hardware store wasunlike any hardware store we
(12:32):
have here.
And right, right out in thefront, it was about maybe 20
feet wide and a hundred feetdeep, seemed and right out on
the front steps were twobeautiful cheap metal, but shiny
steel pluckers, just like theones I'd seen in Hong Kong.
Like them, same size, tiny.
And I said, look at that, and Igot out and looked at it and
(12:54):
turned it upside down and said,gee whiz, wouldn't that be great
if I had a chance to get one ofthose?
And what, I could have reallyused that.
And I said to the guy, how muchis it?
And he told me, and man, Istarted thinking.
I said how much for And he gaveme a price.
I don't remember what it was,but I thought about that all the
way home on the airport andended up getting my father in
(13:16):
law to help shepherd a smallcontainer of those that I call
the Featherman Jr.
And that was either 1999 or2000.
And I put motors and belts inthem.
They were all belt driven fixedthem in my shop and sold them
all out within a year all right.
So after I sold out of thoseimported Featherman juniors, two
(13:37):
bird pluckers I got my friendSyl Graber, Amish buddy, to make
one more like Ernie's, but alittle more sophisticated.
And I took it up to the McMurrayHatchery because at that time
McMurray was selling the drumroller thing, but a little bit
bigger one, as a kit on a stand.
So That you put together and itwas 795 and I thought, shoot, I
(14:03):
can make this automatic one for,400, I bet, and or, put a 100
motor in it and and sell it,have 500 in it and sell it for
8, like these guys are, andit'll be automatic four birds at
a time.
So we took the idea up toMcMurray.
That was a bold move for me andSil I was nervous as a cat and
(14:25):
he said, if you can make it looka little less farm shop, I know
we'll, I know we can sell them.
So we went back, happened tohave, I had so many stars lined
up for me happened to have arotational mold company.
One of these things where theyhave it looks like a carnival
ride.
It goes, turns in alldirections.
You pour a bucket of plastic BBsin and they melt, they put them
(14:46):
in a 500 degree oven, they meltand they get flung out to the
side slowly.
And so it.
It makes septic tanks and,hunting cabins and, deer, deer
blinds and anything roundanything that you can make a
welded mold for, you can pour a,pour one of these rotational
molds and make it.
So that's what we did.
We designed a base and a top.
(15:07):
At that time, the only thing youcould buy was a Pickwick junior
for 3,600 brand new.
And that would do four birds ata time.
And that was just, a poultrybudget.
You guys know that you just, youcan't spend that kind of money
on your poultry.
So that was the only thing outthere at the time.
And spent what seemed like to usa lot of money on making those
first two molds.
(15:28):
And it was a gamble.
And I also, another one of thethings that was really lucky for
me was I had a buddy who was theMidwest sales rep for, oh gosh,.
It was a major motor company andhe gave me a multiplier as if I
was doing 300,000 a business ayear.
He gave me a great price onmotors, a motor that would have
(15:48):
cost 700 cost me 180 back then,I think.
And we introduced the Feathermanat I think 795.
And that was the only product wehad for many years.
I was a rep for Ashleyequipment, so I could add a
scalder.
And then after several years andand the poultry man came along
(16:11):
and made a cheap copy of theAshley Scalar.
I told Jim at Ashley that I'msorry, but I gotta make, I gotta
make a cheaper scalar thanyours.
And he said, that's business.
And so anyway, we started makingour own stainless stuff.
We kept with the plastic pluck.
That's how Feather man got offthe ground for a long time.
We, it was just a pluck.
(16:32):
But now we have, yeah,
Carey (16:33):
I think a lot of businesses start.
Out of some type of necessity.
There's something missing andsomebody has an idea, Hey, let
me see what I can figure out.
And then when you figure it out,other people are like, Hey, I
want one too.
I need that.
(16:54):
And next thing you're making itinstead of doing what you
originally set out to do.
David (16:59):
Isn't that part of the joy of farming though?
Discovering stuff on your own.
There's so many needs whenyou're a, when you're a small
farmer.
And you can't go to the storeevery time you can't hire a, an
electrician every time youcan't,
Carey (17:14):
you just
David (17:14):
can't, you don't want to do it.
You don't want to pay for it.
And so you, it forces you to becreative.
And my buddy Wilmer, who doessome of the most sophisticated
work that we do, he says,necessity, isn't the mother of
invention.
Desperation is
Carey (17:27):
that's right.
David (17:28):
Yeah.
And There's no more desperatefeel that I know of than when
your equipment breaks down andyou're processing birds.
That is the worst.
You spend all that time, raisethem, give them the best life
possible, take care of themduring storms and get hung,
getting hung up at processing isthe pits and we, because we know
(17:52):
that we design with that inmind, I see stuff on the market
now that's going to break downfor sure.
That does break down and it'sgood in one sense.
I know those cheap pluckersinside and out because I
imported one, not too differentfrom them.
But I know what theirlimitations are.
And I think it's great thatpeople have a low ticket entry,
(18:15):
a 300 tractor supply or 400,whatever it is.
Entry with Yardbird and similarand I hope that they have a good
experience with them and thatthey want to expand because
that's when they're going tograduate to our level.
So I have no grudge against allthe imports.
I knew they would happen.
I had to decide whether I wantedto carry that or not, buy a
(18:39):
container or two full of thoselittle ones.
We decided not to, and I don'tregret that a bit.
I'm glad those are out there,but it made me, it made
Featherman go from like thecheap entry to a more high grade
entry.
And by, by the time the Chineseimport started coming in.
(19:00):
We already had 20 or 25 productsand we were being pulled up into
the stratosphere of biggerscalders and USDA inspection and
stuff that I never would havedreamed of when I was raising
chickens for.
For sale at the farmer's market.
Jennifer (19:18):
So if you were talking to a newbie that didn't wanna do
all of that stuff that you justtalked about doing over the
course of many years, So if theyjust wanted to do some Cornish
for themselves and their friendsor whatever and get started,
what would be the first thingthey would need?
David (19:39):
To do it yourself, a cone and a sharp knife and a big pot.
And we have what we call astarter kit.
And it's got the cone, theknife, and a shackles actually,
because the shackles is youdon't really have to have the
shackles.
It's a 35 luxury that keeps thebird off of a table or in a
(20:00):
tray.
Ernie used to have a, like adish tray for each of his kids
and they, each one was full ofwater and blessed his heart.
Shackles keeps them fromcontaminating a flat surface,
like a tray or a table a knifeand a cone.
I think a cone is essential.
I have a lot of strong feelingsabout the way people dispatch
(20:22):
birds.
And I'm not a very good salesmanbecause I'm vocal.
about decapitation, stunning,shooting, pithing there's no
reason for doing all thosethings that disconnect the brain
of the chicken from the heartand the lungs.
And I believe that when peopleunderstand that the normal brain
(20:43):
function and heart lungfunction.
really is essential for a goodbleed out, then they don't go to
all those extreme efforts ofstunning.
But unfortunately the animalwelfare people have got in and
managed to make stunning one ofthe tenets of organic or humane
farming.
And it's completely upside down.
(21:04):
They're wrong about what theythink their research is flawed,
that they use to support it.
And of course the industry lovesthem because Industry is all
about stunning.
If they couldn't stun, theycouldn't have these blazing 175
birds per minute throughput,which is what they're all about.
And so the humane people fellright into their sweet spot with
(21:28):
saying, you need, you got tostun anyway.
But I've got a better deal forthe newbie than the starter kit.
I think everybody should learnto do it.
So I think everybody should havethe starter kit and the cone, by
the way, restrains the birdgently, like a hug.
And this has proven our, one ofour heroes, Temple Grandin, the
autistic cattle pen designerwhen she was in college, she
(21:51):
made herself a squeeze chute tocalm herself.
Have you guys seen TempleGrandin's documentary?
Put it on your list.
It's a great, it's a greatNetflix.
And Temple Grandin is one of thetrue heroes of the Of the small
farm industry bringing herknowledge her understanding of
how animals think and what theyperceive as they go through
these facilities.
(22:12):
And a lot of people use her todesign their facilities.
Anyway, the cone is disorientedbecause the birds are upside
down.
It's like a gentle hug andthere's nothing that compares to
it for for restraining the birdduring bleed out.
That said the best deal goingfor start it for starters is to
(22:33):
go to our rental page andfeatherman equipment where folks
that have, you have ourequipment.
We post a, we post theirequipment for rent for no
charge.
We have a map.
You put in your put in your zipcode and it'll show whoever's
near you.
And they'll rent you a 6, 000set of equipment for a hundred
(22:53):
bucks a day.
That's what I do.
That's what Courtney does.
And our office gal, my niece inin outside of.
Fort Worth and that's what Mariedoes at the shop in Jamesport,
Missouri.
We all have a set of rentalequipment.
We rent it out for a hundredbucks, our gamble.
And we tell everybody bring itback better than you found it.
Otherwise we'll keep a hundreddollar damage deposit.
(23:15):
But and they always do.
They, these are great people, ofcourse.
And they always honor that.
And our gamble is if they getalong well with it, and they can
see an expansion in anotherincome stream, they'll buy our
equipment eventually.
But it's a very cheap way to getgreat equipment.
And,
Jennifer (23:32):
I'm on your map right now.
You've got quite a few peopledoing that.
David (23:36):
We should have a lot more, Jennifer.
And it's one of the, it's one ofthe campaigns I just haven't
thrown my energy into.
I really want to make a, anappeal for it because it just
makes so much sense for you asan equipment owner.
It's another income stream.
We've had people buy an extraset of equipment.
We have a I think it's a soilconservation service up in the
(23:58):
Pacific Northwest.
It's either Oregon or WashingtonState.
They've bought three sets ofequipment.
Because they rent it out somuch, and we love that.
We love that.
A small percentage of our ownersdo it.
I think they are concerned thatthey're not gonna get it back in
the condition it went out.
(24:18):
And I get that, but I thinkthere are ways to ensure, so
anyway that's the easieststartup, and it really is super.
Even if you just get a pluckers.
Or you just get a scalder.
Now you got to have a, but yeah.
So learning the skill with crudeequipment is good to know, no
(24:38):
matter what, if the wheels falloff, that's a great skill.
And you've got, if you've gotchickens and they keep breeding,
you've, you know how to feedyour family.
But.
On a, on another level rentingwill show you who's close to
you.
You might be surprised probablymake friends.
(24:59):
You may help each other processand and you get to experience
what we consider is the bestequipment made just for what you
want to do.
Jennifer (25:09):
So for a newbie getting started, obviously they
need a knife.
And the cone and you need abucket.
I'll just tell you that you needa bucket and
David (25:21):
Can't farm without buckets.
Jennifer (25:22):
No, I mean I do have that plucker now that was given
to me by a friend that has gonenow, but he gave me that and I
don't know where he got it,honestly.
But yeah, it works.
It's a great little pucker.
David (25:36):
Yeah, it's one of the whiz bangs.
It's a, it's got a belt drive,and you'll have to tighten up
the belt every now and then, orreplace the belt.
Jennifer (25:43):
I have to tell you, I have a trampoline spring holding
it where it needs to be rightnow.
David (25:50):
Your idler pulley.
Absolutely.
The key with running one ofthose is you start it before and
any plucker you started beforeyou drop the birds in.
You probably already figuredthat out.
And the water.
Yeah, if you started loaded, itwill.
it'll slip and it'll ruin yourbelt.
Jennifer (26:07):
You start it up and you have to have your hose
going.
And then you just drop the birdin there.
And I think I've got 23 secondvideos, 23 seconds and they're
done.
David (26:18):
I have.
Plucking is really the easypart.
Scalding is where the, where youhave to really develop your
skills.
Jennifer (26:25):
Yeah and it's the, so for people who are new to
scalding, that is a trial anderror thing.
If you're at 150 degrees, ittakes about 12, 14 seconds, 15
seconds, but if you startgetting them too hot, it gets
real messy real quick.
You start.
That's true, Jennifer,
David (26:46):
and when you say that, you have to also have a caveat
that.
you're, are you leaving them inthe water for all that time?
Or are they going up and down inand out of the water?
So I do 150 degrees which is alittle bit on the hot side to
most people, 148 is how we setour scalders when they go out
(27:08):
and we just tell people, eventhere, but if you go in and out
of the water somehow, if you'reholding them with your hands by
the feet, or you're usingshackles, which looks like you
push h all the way under feet anjiggle it and then you li heads
out of the water an for threeseconds.
(27:29):
Then y process to me is usuallyI think when you said 15
seconds, you were talking aboutjust completely holding them
down under water and jigglingthem around for all that time.
Is that right?
I'm a swisher.
I swish them in a swisher! Ishould have known you were a
swisher.
This is funny.
(27:49):
Are you a one bird swisher or atwo bird swisher?
Jennifer (27:54):
I'm a one bird swisher because we're old school.
We use a turkey fryer pot.
So there's only one bird goingin there.
But we have fluffy birds.
So I swish them to get all thosesoft feathers on the underside.
David (28:07):
Yeah.
Things I don't know.
So you're talking about spentlaying hens,
Jennifer (28:11):
we so I raise Cochins and Orpingtons for show, but
then we have to eat the onesthat make the cut.
Carey (28:18):
Yep.
Jennifer (28:19):
And so we actually pluck the heritage birds but we
skin the Cornish, so go figure.
So Cornish
David (28:28):
are easier to pluck, though.
Jennifer (28:30):
They are.
I'm not dissing it at all, butjust for the way we eat in our
household, we just skin theCornish, but the heritage birds,
the broth that you get from theskin, the bones, and everything
is so rich.
We can't even compare it.
We actually lug out the pluckerwhen we go to do the roosters
(28:50):
and stuff from the heritagebirds.
David (28:52):
The main thing the newbie needs to know is that the age
makes a huge difference, doesn'tit?
It does.
So even in a Cornish, if you letthem get older or like people
say, redbirds pluck harder thanwhitebirds.
It's not necessarily the breed,but those redbirds are 12 weeks
old.
The whitebirds were eight orseven.
(29:13):
And so just those four weeks canmake a difference in how those
feathers are set.
And on your spent hands or onesthat didn't make the cut for
whatever reason, those birds arequite old by then, a half a year
at least, their feathers will bea lot harder to get out.
Anybody who's plucked layinghands they've earned a stripe or
two because it's a totallydifferent, it's much harder than
(29:34):
the Cornish.
So
Jennifer (29:35):
how does your equipment do for ducks and
turkeys?
David (29:39):
You just said a four letter word.
God made ducks waterproof.
Turkeys are no problem.
Turkeys are no problem at all.
But God made ducks waterproof.
And the most important thingabout plucking a duck is the
(30:01):
molt.
You have to hit the molt.
You have to hit the molt.
You have to hit the molt.
Those are the three mostimportant things about plucking
a duck, or a goose.
And the molts are at eight weeksand 12 weeks, but you'll know
for sure when you see the littlebreast feathers getting pushed
out by the new feather comingin.
And I've never done it.
(30:22):
I've not raised my own ducks.
I've helped a couple of peoplepluck ducks, one with wax, one
without.
I've never felt really goodabout the job I did, but if you
look in the store or at a finerestaurant, You're going to see,
you're going to see hairfollicles on all those ducks.
And another secret to doingducks, I think, is to use white
(30:44):
ducks.
Because if you use dark ducksit'll look like they're really
hairy.
White ducks won't show it.
But they're so worth it.
And let me give a plug for theAmerican Pasture Poultry
Producers Association.
And the latest issue, I thinkit's the latest.
No, this is March, April, is byprobably one of the best duck
(31:04):
men in the country, Ben Grimes.
And he's, the article isdemystifying ducks.
There is so much greatinformation in this magazine.
Everybody, first of all, oughtto have their animals on
pasture, moving them every day.
That's why we do the chickenshift.
Put in the manure pinpointprecision where it should go
(31:24):
instead of leaving yourself achore and keeping the chickens
cleaner and then yeah, like evenducks ducks, everything's
discussed in this periodical,our newsletter, and I love it.
People share information sofreely and then online as well.
It's a great resource.
You guys are probably very awareof that.
(31:44):
Appa.
org best money you can spend.
Jennifer (31:49):
Carrie joined is part of the app thing.
I'm not.
Carey (31:53):
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah.
I've definitely learned a lotfrom joining APA.
They, I went to their show backin January and the different
seminars that they had, Ilearned so much about pastured
poultry, be it Cornish heritagebirds, They had things set up
(32:17):
all for all different stages ofthe bird's life to help teach
people how to take care of themand how to manage it.
David (32:26):
Yep.
It's getting more and moresophisticated every year, Kerry.
I love that.
I love the conference and Theconference is, it just blows me
away.
The quality of people, thesophistication.
My, my era was, we were feedingliver to try to keep the splayed
legs from happening.
And then Jeff Maddox andFortrell came along.
(32:48):
And that was history, so theproblems I had are not the
problems that the growers havetoday and they're, they're
figuring out refrigeration andstuff like that.
Carey (33:01):
Yeah.
David (33:01):
They're so far down the road and so unafraid to do 5,
000 birds a year.
Homesteaders don't need to dothat.
It's good to know there's verysmall scale people doing that.
And chickens are the easiestthing to sell.
They're the foot in the door forall the other meats you want to
grow or vegetables or flowers orwhatever, but Chickens are easy
(33:23):
to sell.
Eggs are easier.
Jennifer (33:26):
All right, so Let's see back to the newbie stuff So
you have the chicken ships whichwould be how to move them around
your field or yard in acontrolled manner, controlled
David (33:39):
predator proof.
Jennifer (33:42):
So that canvas top is predator proof?
David (33:45):
Yes.
Okay.
A bear could get into it
Jennifer (33:49):
Okay.
David (33:50):
If I had to worry about bears, a raccoon could get into
it, but I've never heard of onedoing that.
I haven't heard of a beargetting into one of these, but
I've heard of bears getting intochicken pens.
If I had to deal with bears I'dput a hot tape around the.
A big piece and then just movewithin the big move within the
hot tape.
Carey (34:09):
Oh, but yeah,
David (34:10):
no I do not tolerate any predation anymore.
I've been involved.
I've had so many predatorattacks.
I had eight Salatin pens and Ilost a lot of birds in Salatin
pens.
I've had, I've been a part of an8, 000 layer on pasture
operation.
I was a consultant for it, andwe fought aerial predation.
(34:33):
I started out I started out whenI went to my, my homestead
didn't have electricity there.
We had eight solar panels, verysmall system.
And I made a 20 by 40 foot PVC,called it the prairie schooner.
That was the very first prairieschooner, covered with a big
billboard tarp.
It's cheap and I brooded inthere and it worked.
(34:56):
It worked great.
I had to move my brooding intoApril late April instead of
March or early April.
But I got along fine with thelittle birds staying warm.
The brooder kept them warm forthree days and then it ran out
of propane and they stayed fineon their own.
Maybe I lucked out, but I'm abig advocate for brooding on
(35:17):
pasture.
Anyway Yeah, that model, the PVCprairie schooner, these folks
with 8, 000 layers on pasture,built 22 of them, and they're
great until they're not, they'regonna, they're gonna be
destroyed sooner than later,sooner or later, and it's
(35:38):
usually sooner, and yeah wefought predators, I fought
predators in, in, in mine, owlsand hawks, and I just decided
didn't want to build a metalversion of the prairie schooner
because it was just tooexpensive.
It was going to be 7, 000 orclose to it.
I actually built a smaller onethat was about five and change.
(36:01):
And but I decided that zeropredation is the goal.
And it's just no fun to, to doall the work we do and then
have.
Predators pick off your stock.
So we went to we made the firstmovable chicken tractors, the
Prairie schooners.
That was about 2011 or 12 andtwo sizes.
(36:25):
So I've been in that space for awhile.
And when the 10 by 12 aluminumcoops came out, I'm looking out
my window at two of them rightnow.
I couldn't believe people wouldpay for that.
And then.
I talked to my friend, RosannaBauman at the conference, you
were talking about Carey, buttwo years ago, and I said,
Rosanna, did you see thoseAlumi-Coop and she said, yeah,
(36:45):
can you believe how expensivethey are?
And I said, no.
And she said, my sister boughtone.
Rosanna's a.
I think she's a German Baptist.
She's some plain plain folkgroup in Kansas.
I visited their farm a coupletimes.
Garnett, Kansas.
Rosanna's the superstar.
I met her when she was 18 yearsold and she's just set the world
(37:05):
on fire with her own operations.
She's got a beef plant and apoultry processing plant.
Anyway, she said, yeah, mysister bought one and I went out
and looked at it and you knowwhat?
I think it's worth it.
I said, no kidding.
And I just couldn't get out ofmy head.
And so we became dealers.
And as I said, it was good andnot so good.
(37:25):
We couldn't ship them andthey're too expensive.
So we made a less expensiveversion by.
Instead of buying expensive premade pipes, we took a sheet of
aluminum and with asophisticated program, it
figures out where all yourpieces go so that you have the
least drop, the least waste onthat sheet.
(37:47):
And we cut it into C channelinstead of a whole tube.
And so our costs are a lot lessto do that because we have this
great how to write fabricatorand not only are the costs less,
but we're A lot lighter becauseof that as well.
Same strength of aluminummembers, but a lot less weight.
Anyway, so yeah, I'm reallyexcited about it because to me,
(38:10):
it's the next step after you'vehad a coop and raised birds
close to your house and foughtpredation, even with a
stationary coop, everybody does.
The, these things are.
I guess weasels can get inthere, but I don't hear of
weasel attacks very often.
I had one once, I think, but no,I've only had one predator
(38:32):
attack on, on the aluma coop,and it was within the first two
hours of when I put that outthere one of the little babies
was small enough to get her headthrough the So like the one inch
screen and I know a hawk, a redshoulder, a red shouldered hawk
(38:52):
got her and cause I just found aheadless body.
And then I had the hawk sittingon top of that little coop for a
couple of days, it would comelooking for heads poking out
anyway yeah, virtually predatorfree put the manure where you
want it.
The chickens get a daily saladbar.
In addition to their the rationthat you give them.
(39:13):
Oops.
And and a clean bedding everynight.
It's just it's the highest levelof stewardship husbandry.
I think that you can do, and ittakes a learning curve to get
there and be willing to pay forit.
It's still a lot of money, butit's not as much as anything
else out there.
So we've, at Featherman, we'vealways been extremely
sympathetic because we've livedthrough.
(39:36):
Homesteading and making a livingout of selling pasture based
animals.
And we're not here get rich on,on our products.
We're here to solve problems andhelp more people be on the land.
And that's what really turns uson.
Jennifer (39:54):
So that's one thing that I am hearing and I like is
that me and you are similar inthe way that we promote the
products that we use.
We're just not somebody that's abusinessman that sees a niche in
the market and sits at his deskin New York and wants to fill it
with.
With imported stuff.
(40:14):
We're actually out there usingit.
You're using your equipment outof necessity I have foam that I
created for shipping eggs, and Iuse that And kerry has a need
and found Feed and minerals andeverything.
And does that.
So we're similar in that sensethat we're actually using the
(40:35):
materials and we know that theywork and we're putting them out
there on the market for otherpeople.
David (40:42):
Yep.
To me, that's, that's thrilling,isn't it?
To identify a need, come up withan idea of your own that, that,
that addresses it and thenactually.
make it happen for other folksas well.
To me, it doesn't get betterthan that.
I benefit from you.
You benefit from me and thecommunity.
(41:04):
The community of small farmersis such a beautiful thing in
this fractured, fragmented,crazy world we live in.
We, we can we know, we can getonline or get on the phone and
talk to sane people like us
Jennifer (41:17):
We reach out to people, same crazy chicken
David (41:19):
people.
Jennifer (41:21):
We reach out to people who are actually doing it
though.
They know, and they know, hey,you can put a point on this
thing to fix it, or you canshift it this way to, to fix
this and tweak it, And
David (41:34):
We're still at the beginning stage, we really are.
There's so much more that, thatcan happen.
We're all still pioneers.
I'm convinced of it.
There's just a lot yet to befigured out.
And feed, feed, by the way,Carrie, did you say Carrie was
doing stuff with feed?
Yeah, that see, that's alwaysbeen a mystery to me and it
(41:56):
still is right now because Ionly have a few birds I can't
order in bulk and I know I don'tkeep it.
I had it's too old by the timeI'm using the last of it.
I don't like it.
And the only way I rationalizeall that is that I move them
every time I'm out there,sometimes four times a day.
Carey (42:14):
And I know
David (42:15):
they're, I know they're picking up stuff because they
get excited every time I movethem, but I'm, I feel pretty
inferior about my feedmanagement.
If you can help me on a, thesmall scale the 20,
Carey (42:28):
do you know bergen Farms, he's down in Florida.
He actually brings some feeddown from Pennsylvania that is
formulated by Jeff.
Huh.
So look them up.
He sells it in his farm storeand that, I don't know exactly
(42:50):
where y'all are in relation toeach other, but that's a feed
that was designed by Jeff.
And he feeds it, he does turkeysand broilers on his farm.
David (43:03):
Okay.
Carey (43:04):
Okay.
David (43:05):
I have some other folks, Dave and Ginger Shields.
You probably remember them from,is it the, if it's the same feed
that they do, cause they're,they deal with Jeff as well.
Carey (43:16):
Yep, it is.
David (43:18):
See, they're not, they're two hours for me.
I actually am one of theircustomers.
I drive 38 miles to their mostsouthern point to, to buy meat
from them.
And it's not worth it for themto bring me a sack of feed too.
But I'd like to ask them,
Carey (43:34):
If they're bringing you some chicken they can bring you
a back or two of feed as well,don't you think?
I'm sure I know both of them.
They're great people.
David (43:41):
No, they are.
They're wonderful.
They're superstars.
They're right up there withPolly face in my book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carey (43:48):
It was great to meet you today, David.
David (43:50):
Yeah.
There's Ruby.
She's the star.
It's great to meet you too,Carrie.
I've seen your, I've seen yourname around and probably seen
your byline on A few APPPAconversations.
Maybe that's where
Carey (44:04):
yeah, I know I've seen you
David (44:05):
at the conference.
Carey (44:06):
Yep.
Yep.
David (44:08):
Thanks for having me guys.
I applaud your mission ofhelping the homesteaders start
up It's a confusing amount ofthings to, place to juggle for
the newbie.
And I know it, I've been thereand want to help however I can.
And I support what you do.
I think it's great.
All the information exchangegoing on.
Carey (44:31):
Thank you for joining us this week.
Before you go, be sure tosubscribe to our podcast so you
can receive new episodes rightwhen they are released.
And they're released every week.
Feel free to email us atpoultrynerds at gmail.
com to share your thoughts aboutthe show.
Until next time, poultry pals,keep clucking, keep learning,
(44:53):
and keep it egg citing.
This is Carey signing off fromPoultry Nerds.
Feathers up, everyone.
Mhm.
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast.
I'm Carey Blackmon, here with myco host for the show, Jennifer
Bryant.
We're here to help you figureout how to raise the healthiest,
happiest, and highest qualitybirds possible.
Mm.
Monica (00:22):
The Poultry Nerds Podcast is brought to you, in
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Jennifer (00:43):
Okay.
Alright, so we're here todaywith David from Featherman
Equipment.
David, you want to introduceyourself and tell us about your
business?
David (00:52):
Thank you, Jennifer.
I'm David Schaefer withFeatherman Equipment.
The business supports smallfarmers like I was for 35 years.
Learned the hard way that Ilearned the easy way that I love
raising animals on pasture.
And when I finally raisedchickens that my customer base
just expanded exponentially fouryears in a row, it doubled the
(01:15):
only, only thing about chickens,you can have a great return, a
very short turnover cycle, sevenweeks and a few days They don't
kick or bite.
Easy to work with.
There's just one drawback andthat's getting the feathers off
and the guts out.
And there wasn't anything outthere for that when I first
started.
And we made a lot of our ownequipment and long story short
(01:37):
we stumbled into the business ofsolving the problems of
processing.
And it's been a business fromheaven.
We love it.
We feel very sympathetic withthe people that are, you're
doing it.
We're on a mission to heal landand put better food in front of
the, in front of people.
And just everybody raisingpoultry wants to do.
(02:00):
And so it's it's been a verygratifying journey.
Lots of twists and turns and.
And I had no idea I was evergoing to do it, but I'm loving
it.
Jennifer (02:09):
What kind of birds do you have?
David (02:11):
Right now I just have a small flock of Bielefelders that
my wife bought.
I never would have picked themout, but they're good birds.
But I always I only had a fewlayers in my past life.
This farm is, a hobby farm,obviously, the one I have now is
just eight acres, but I've beenon a couple of farms,
grandparents 520 acre farm waswhere I started and cut my teeth
(02:34):
and learn how city kid can makeevery mistake in the world, and
then I moved after 20 yearsthere to I did homestead, a
farm, built a straw bale homeoff the grid, composting
toilets, the whole thing.
And there I was raising athousand Cornish cross per year
on pasture.
And cause that was the legallimit.
And all my customers wanted thebirds sold out easiest.
(02:58):
And we're in the market for somenew layers.
And I'm not exactly sure whatkind, wifey's in charge of the
layers.
She picks them out.
I'm sorry.
Say again.
Jennifer (03:12):
What state are you in?
David (03:14):
We're in Florida now, central Florida.
We've been here for two years.
It's hot as can be right now.
I don't know how people work allday.
I really don't.
I came in at 8:30 this morningdripping and I went back out for
a little bit more, but it'srough.
Maybe I'm soft, I don't know.
Jennifer (03:32):
No, Carey's in Alabama and I'm in Southern Middle
Tennessee and it is justsweltering.
David (03:37):
Yeah.
And
Jennifer (03:40):
where are you
David (03:40):
Carey?
Carey (03:41):
I'm right outside of Birmingham.
I try to get the things that Ineed to get done.
Before seven, eight o'clock inthe morning.
David (03:48):
Exactly.
Carey (03:49):
And then I venture out again about five, four or five
o'clock in the afternoon.
Yep.
Some days, not going to lie.
I'll be out in my chicken yardwith a headlamp because it's
hot.
Yeah, I get it.
David (04:02):
It got really hot in North Missouri, 107, 109.
I just don't ever remember beingthis hot though.
And consistently for so manydays, there were only a few days
of the year.
In Missouri where it didn't getinto the seventies at night.
And we haven't had that yet hereeither, but still, it just I
don't know.
Carey (04:22):
It's just, it's the humidity.
Yes, it is.
In, in the South, Florida,Alabama, our humidity is
regularly 80 plus, even inTennessee where Jennifer is.
My father, he lives up inMissouri and their humidity is
nowhere near that high.
And to me, that's what really,that's what really hurts you.
(04:46):
Is the humidity not so much theheat?
David (04:48):
Yeah, you can't cool.
You can't cool.
Jennifer (04:51):
You did the thousand cornish
Carey (04:53):
All
Jennifer (04:55):
right, and you did not have processing equipment.
How are you doing yourprocessing?
David (05:00):
I was lucky enough in 1993 To go to the auction of
Alice's poultry in Chilicothe,Missouri, and I bought Virtually
all their stuff.
And this was a little shop that,was engaged in commerce and
people would bring in chickensand I don't know what they
charged a buck and a quarter orsomething.
And they put them in wonder bagsand a wonder bread bags, so I
(05:23):
bought a couple of big scaldpots like 20 quart pots.
I bought a drum roller plucker.
So it was, it's about as big asa toaster with fingers sticking
out that rolls and you hold thebird and feathers get all over
you.
And so I had my scalder, I had apot, and I had the the plucker.
and I had and I think I bought,yeah, I know I bought a, like a
(05:43):
handful of really terrible oldwood and wired crates,
transportation crates.
So that got me started.
And what a painful start.
Most people earn their stripesthat way with a very
unsophisticated set up and youcan do it by hand.
You can do it in a pot with awood fire and you just you make
(06:05):
mistake, you make more, you makea lot of mistakes and you have
some birds that lose their skin.
You have birds that you got toput cold feathers forever.
And that, that's how I did it ona very cheap budget.
And then I was involved in afarmers group, Green Hills Farm
Project.
They're still going on.
We were all about grass farmingand six of us went together and
(06:27):
built a mobile processing unitand we got a grant.
The first SARE grant, it wasactually called LISA back then,
Low Input SustainableAgriculture, the very first
series of grants.
We won some money.
We bought a 750 pick wick.
Plucker, it was, I think, 48inches in diameter.
(06:48):
And we built our own dunkingapparatus.
We made a scalder out of a 55gallon barrel and two, 3000 watt
heat elements.
We put a lot of effort intothat, put it all on a trailer.
We were going to move it aroundfrom farm to farm.
It never moved.
It was just big and clunky andawkward.
I've got pictures of it, but itgot the job done.
Lots of mistakes.
(07:09):
The biggest being that thisplucker was designed for 15
birds and we were putting infour.
And they were like kids on amerry go round.
They were not rolling, and I'mrubbing my hands together for
the people that don't havevisual on this, which I guess is
going to be everybody.
It needs, plucking needs to havethat action of the birds
touching each other.
That's why we tell people ifthey, the first question we ask,
(07:32):
if somebody calls up Feathermanand says Plucker's not working
right! Feathers are all left on.
And we said first question is,how many birds are you doing at
a time?
It's usually just one or two,and we tell them go ahead and
put four in there and see howthat works.
And that usually solves theirproblem.
Anyway we had to, we, it took usa long time to figure that out
on that first big plucker.
And finally, we did, and wedecided to go from four to eight
(07:57):
birds scalding.
That over faced our scaldermechanism, our dunking
apparatus.
We did build a cage to holdeight birds and we could get
them in there, but I had to helpthe darn thing go up and down,
so it was like lifting weights.
We did 160 birds a day and eightat a time.
What is that, 20 batches oflifting weights for a minute
each batch?
(08:18):
Screwed up my back.
I was, I couldn't get out ofbed.
And so then we went to see ourAmish neighbor down the road,
Ernie Kaufman and Ernie's familywas doing birds, I think for a
buck and a quarter.
We helped them.
They took 50 cents off for ushelping out.
And Ernie and I became greatfriends.
And he after I'm throwing thisall in at once on you, but Ernie
(08:39):
and I went to see an auction oldequipment not really old to us.
It was new.
But from a big outfit doingpheasants and quail in North
Missouri.
And it was, I bought a fewtransport coupes, but everything
else was way too expensive.
They had a giant stainless steelplucker and Ernie came home.
He said, I do believe I couldmake one of those because Ernie
was using one of these drumrollers, like I started out with
(09:01):
too, and he was good at it.
He could do a bird in 30seconds.
Darn if he didn't chop the endsoff of a 55 gallon plastic drum
set the fingers that he took offfrom his drum roller on a plate
on one of the lids, the bottomof the, this, the plucker, the
55 gallon plastic drum, cutholes, put those fingers in
(09:23):
there and made the first do ityourself homemade plucker.
I've made plans, sold plansthrough Farm Show Magazine for,
Five years, that was 1995.
I said, somebody ought todevelop this.
This was 1995.
I had no, no dreams, no interestin developing that, but I sold
lots of plans for five bucks.
And then one of those pluckersthat from those plans was used
(09:46):
with by Herrick Kimball, whowrote the anybody can build a
mechanical chicken plucker, alsoknown as the whiz bang book.
Pluckers and a lot of people, Ithink you have one of those,
Jennifer, I was just looking atyou on Facebook, your blue
pluckers.
Jennifer (10:00):
Yeah.
David (10:01):
Yeah, that's, that looks like a whizzbang pucker made
from those plans.
But you didn't know that Thegranddaddy of those was my Amish
buddy, Ernie.
Anyway, that was a really coolthing and that, that started me
thinking about that and I knowI've jumped off from the
original question, but I'll tellyou how we got an official
start.
(10:21):
The setup that we had that weused for the Greenhills Farm
Project worked okay with eight,but like I said, I hurt my back,
had to go through Ernie.
And other people kept using thethe machinery that we put
together on a trailer, but I wasgoing to Ernie for a while and
Ernie made this other pluckerand I developed plans for it.
And then I'm not sure, I thinkit was about 99.
(10:44):
Yeah, it was, must've been 1999when I was on a trip to Asia at
the Hong Kong farmers market.
I saw all these vendors there,lots and lots of vendors selling
their birds.
They'd bring in live birds,they'd take them to this room on
the first floor, giant threestory, like a giant parking lot,
(11:05):
this Hong Kong farmer's marketwas.
And on the first floor, they hadthis room out of Dante's Inferno
where they'd killed and scaldthe birds.
And that was something else.
They'd tie the chicken's feettogether, five, five birds.
And these all look like layersto me.
And then they'd throw them in abig cauldron, like a pot you can
cook a missionary in and stirthem around with a paddle, like
(11:29):
a rowboat paddle.
And that guy.
He knew exactly when they weredone.
The water looked nasty.
He had two of those big pots,and I forget what kind of fire,
I think he had some kind ofcoals underneath them.
But Ernie, by the way, alsoscalded with a wood fire.
And and then out of the scalder,they'd put him on this little
like a cart, like a dolly thatgoes underneath the car, and
(11:50):
then they'd, Pull those out andup some stairs and to their
little stalls where they had oneof these tiny pluckers, like I'd
never seen before, about a footand a half in diameter and
little electric pluckers andthey'd pluck them two at a time
and then polish them up.
(12:11):
Cause they didn't get a verygood job done and polish them
up.
And I said, isn't that neat?
And then we went on to my thenin laws house in Bali.
and stayed there for a week ortwo.
And on the way to the airportthe parents had to pick up
something at the hardware store.
And the hardware store wasunlike any hardware store we
(12:32):
have here.
And right, right out in thefront, it was about maybe 20
feet wide and a hundred feetdeep, seemed and right out on
the front steps were twobeautiful cheap metal, but shiny
steel pluckers, just like theones I'd seen in Hong Kong.
Like them, same size, tiny.
And I said, look at that, and Igot out and looked at it and
(12:54):
turned it upside down and said,gee whiz, wouldn't that be great
if I had a chance to get one ofthose?
And what, I could have reallyused that.
And I said to the guy, how muchis it?
And he told me, and man, Istarted thinking.
I said how much for And he gaveme a price.
I don't remember what it was,but I thought about that all the
way home on the airport andended up getting my father in
(13:16):
law to help shepherd a smallcontainer of those that I call
the Featherman Jr.
And that was either 1999 or2000.
And I put motors and belts inthem.
They were all belt driven fixedthem in my shop and sold them
all out within a year all right.
So after I sold out of thoseimported Featherman juniors, two
(13:37):
bird pluckers I got my friendSyl Graber, Amish buddy, to make
one more like Ernie's, but alittle more sophisticated.
And I took it up to the McMurrayHatchery because at that time
McMurray was selling the drumroller thing, but a little bit
bigger one, as a kit on a stand.
So That you put together and itwas 795 and I thought, shoot, I
(14:03):
can make this automatic one for,400, I bet, and or, put a 100
motor in it and and sell it,have 500 in it and sell it for
8, like these guys are, andit'll be automatic four birds at
a time.
So we took the idea up toMcMurray.
That was a bold move for me andSil I was nervous as a cat and
(14:25):
he said, if you can make it looka little less farm shop, I know
we'll, I know we can sell them.
So we went back, happened tohave, I had so many stars lined
up for me happened to have arotational mold company.
One of these things where theyhave it looks like a carnival
ride.
It goes, turns in alldirections.
You pour a bucket of plastic BBsin and they melt, they put them
(14:46):
in a 500 degree oven, they meltand they get flung out to the
side slowly.
And so it.
It makes septic tanks and,hunting cabins and, deer, deer
blinds and anything roundanything that you can make a
welded mold for, you can pour a,pour one of these rotational
molds and make it.
So that's what we did.
We designed a base and a top.
(15:07):
At that time, the only thing youcould buy was a Pickwick junior
for 3,600 brand new.
And that would do four birds ata time.
And that was just, a poultrybudget.
You guys know that you just, youcan't spend that kind of money
on your poultry.
So that was the only thing outthere at the time.
And spent what seemed like to usa lot of money on making those
first two molds.
(15:28):
And it was a gamble.
And I also, another one of thethings that was really lucky for
me was I had a buddy who was theMidwest sales rep for, oh gosh,.
It was a major motor company andhe gave me a multiplier as if I
was doing 300,000 a business ayear.
He gave me a great price onmotors, a motor that would have
(15:48):
cost 700 cost me 180 back then,I think.
And we introduced the Feathermanat I think 795.
And that was the only product wehad for many years.
I was a rep for Ashleyequipment, so I could add a
scalder.
And then after several years andand the poultry man came along
(16:11):
and made a cheap copy of theAshley Scalar.
I told Jim at Ashley that I'msorry, but I gotta make, I gotta
make a cheaper scalar thanyours.
And he said, that's business.
And so anyway, we started makingour own stainless stuff.
We kept with the plastic pluck.
That's how Feather man got offthe ground for a long time.
We, it was just a pluck.
(16:32):
But now we have, yeah,
Carey (16:33):
I think a lot of businesses start.
Out of some type of necessity.
There's something missing andsomebody has an idea, Hey, let
me see what I can figure out.
And then when you figure it out,other people are like, Hey, I
want one too.
I need that.
(16:54):
And next thing you're making itinstead of doing what you
originally set out to do.
David (16:59):
Isn't that part of the joy of farming though?
Discovering stuff on your own.
There's so many needs whenyou're a, when you're a small
farmer.
And you can't go to the storeevery time you can't hire a, an
electrician every time youcan't,
Carey (17:14):
you just
David (17:14):
can't, you don't want to do it.
You don't want to pay for it.
And so you, it forces you to becreative.
And my buddy Wilmer, who doessome of the most sophisticated
work that we do, he says,necessity, isn't the mother of
invention.
Desperation is
Carey (17:27):
that's right.
David (17:28):
Yeah.
And There's no more desperatefeel that I know of than when
your equipment breaks down andyou're processing birds.
That is the worst.
You spend all that time, raisethem, give them the best life
possible, take care of themduring storms and get hung,
getting hung up at processing isthe pits and we, because we know
(17:52):
that we design with that inmind, I see stuff on the market
now that's going to break downfor sure.
That does break down and it'sgood in one sense.
I know those cheap pluckersinside and out because I
imported one, not too differentfrom them.
But I know what theirlimitations are.
And I think it's great thatpeople have a low ticket entry,
(18:15):
a 300 tractor supply or 400,whatever it is.
Entry with Yardbird and similarand I hope that they have a good
experience with them and thatthey want to expand because
that's when they're going tograduate to our level.
So I have no grudge against allthe imports.
I knew they would happen.
I had to decide whether I wantedto carry that or not, buy a
(18:39):
container or two full of thoselittle ones.
We decided not to, and I don'tregret that a bit.
I'm glad those are out there,but it made me, it made
Featherman go from like thecheap entry to a more high grade
entry.
And by, by the time the Chineseimport started coming in.
(19:00):
We already had 20 or 25 productsand we were being pulled up into
the stratosphere of biggerscalders and USDA inspection and
stuff that I never would havedreamed of when I was raising
chickens for.
For sale at the farmer's market.
Jennifer (19:18):
So if you were talking to a newbie that didn't wanna do
all of that stuff that you justtalked about doing over the
course of many years, So if theyjust wanted to do some Cornish
for themselves and their friendsor whatever and get started,
what would be the first thingthey would need?
David (19:39):
To do it yourself, a cone and a sharp knife and a big pot.
And we have what we call astarter kit.
And it's got the cone, theknife, and a shackles actually,
because the shackles is youdon't really have to have the
shackles.
It's a 35 luxury that keeps thebird off of a table or in a
(20:00):
tray.
Ernie used to have a, like adish tray for each of his kids
and they, each one was full ofwater and blessed his heart.
Shackles keeps them fromcontaminating a flat surface,
like a tray or a table a knifeand a cone.
I think a cone is essential.
I have a lot of strong feelingsabout the way people dispatch
(20:22):
birds.
And I'm not a very good salesmanbecause I'm vocal.
about decapitation, stunning,shooting, pithing there's no
reason for doing all thosethings that disconnect the brain
of the chicken from the heartand the lungs.
And I believe that when peopleunderstand that the normal brain
(20:43):
function and heart lungfunction.
really is essential for a goodbleed out, then they don't go to
all those extreme efforts ofstunning.
But unfortunately the animalwelfare people have got in and
managed to make stunning one ofthe tenets of organic or humane
farming.
And it's completely upside down.
(21:04):
They're wrong about what theythink their research is flawed,
that they use to support it.
And of course the industry lovesthem because Industry is all
about stunning.
If they couldn't stun, theycouldn't have these blazing 175
birds per minute throughput,which is what they're all about.
And so the humane people fellright into their sweet spot with
(21:28):
saying, you need, you got tostun anyway.
But I've got a better deal forthe newbie than the starter kit.
I think everybody should learnto do it.
So I think everybody should havethe starter kit and the cone, by
the way, restrains the birdgently, like a hug.
And this has proven our, one ofour heroes, Temple Grandin, the
autistic cattle pen designerwhen she was in college, she
(21:51):
made herself a squeeze chute tocalm herself.
Have you guys seen TempleGrandin's documentary?
Put it on your list.
It's a great, it's a greatNetflix.
And Temple Grandin is one of thetrue heroes of the Of the small
farm industry bringing herknowledge her understanding of
how animals think and what theyperceive as they go through
these facilities.
(22:12):
And a lot of people use her todesign their facilities.
Anyway, the cone is disorientedbecause the birds are upside
down.
It's like a gentle hug andthere's nothing that compares to
it for for restraining the birdduring bleed out.
That said the best deal goingfor start it for starters is to
(22:33):
go to our rental page andfeatherman equipment where folks
that have, you have ourequipment.
We post a, we post theirequipment for rent for no
charge.
We have a map.
You put in your put in your zipcode and it'll show whoever's
near you.
And they'll rent you a 6, 000set of equipment for a hundred
(22:53):
bucks a day.
That's what I do.
That's what Courtney does.
And our office gal, my niece inin outside of.
Fort Worth and that's what Mariedoes at the shop in Jamesport,
Missouri.
We all have a set of rentalequipment.
We rent it out for a hundredbucks, our gamble.
And we tell everybody bring itback better than you found it.
Otherwise we'll keep a hundreddollar damage deposit.
(23:15):
But and they always do.
They, these are great people, ofcourse.
And they always honor that.
And our gamble is if they getalong well with it, and they can
see an expansion in anotherincome stream, they'll buy our
equipment eventually.
But it's a very cheap way to getgreat equipment.
And,
Jennifer (23:32):
I'm on your map right now.
You've got quite a few peopledoing that.
David (23:36):
We should have a lot more, Jennifer.
And it's one of the, it's one ofthe campaigns I just haven't
thrown my energy into.
I really want to make a, anappeal for it because it just
makes so much sense for you asan equipment owner.
It's another income stream.
We've had people buy an extraset of equipment.
We have a I think it's a soilconservation service up in the
(23:58):
Pacific Northwest.
It's either Oregon or WashingtonState.
They've bought three sets ofequipment.
Because they rent it out somuch, and we love that.
We love that.
A small percentage of our ownersdo it.
I think they are concerned thatthey're not gonna get it back in
the condition it went out.
(24:18):
And I get that, but I thinkthere are ways to ensure, so
anyway that's the easieststartup, and it really is super.
Even if you just get a pluckers.
Or you just get a scalder.
Now you got to have a, but yeah.
So learning the skill with crudeequipment is good to know, no
(24:38):
matter what, if the wheels falloff, that's a great skill.
And you've got, if you've gotchickens and they keep breeding,
you've, you know how to feedyour family.
But.
On a, on another level rentingwill show you who's close to
you.
You might be surprised probablymake friends.
(24:59):
You may help each other processand and you get to experience
what we consider is the bestequipment made just for what you
want to do.
Jennifer (25:09):
So for a newbie getting started, obviously they
need a knife.
And the cone and you need abucket.
I'll just tell you that you needa bucket and
David (25:21):
Can't farm without buckets.
Jennifer (25:22):
No, I mean I do have that plucker now that was given
to me by a friend that has gonenow, but he gave me that and I
don't know where he got it,honestly.
But yeah, it works.
It's a great little pucker.
David (25:36):
Yeah, it's one of the whiz bangs.
It's a, it's got a belt drive,and you'll have to tighten up
the belt every now and then, orreplace the belt.
Jennifer (25:43):
I have to tell you, I have a trampoline spring holding
it where it needs to be rightnow.
David (25:50):
Your idler pulley.
Absolutely.
The key with running one ofthose is you start it before and
any plucker you started beforeyou drop the birds in.
You probably already figuredthat out.
And the water.
Yeah, if you started loaded, itwill.
it'll slip and it'll ruin yourbelt.
Jennifer (26:07):
You start it up and you have to have your hose
going.
And then you just drop the birdin there.
And I think I've got 23 secondvideos, 23 seconds and they're
done.
David (26:18):
I have.
Plucking is really the easypart.
Scalding is where the, where youhave to really develop your
skills.
Jennifer (26:25):
Yeah and it's the, so for people who are new to
scalding, that is a trial anderror thing.
If you're at 150 degrees, ittakes about 12, 14 seconds, 15
seconds, but if you startgetting them too hot, it gets
real messy real quick.
You start.
That's true, Jennifer,
David (26:46):
and when you say that, you have to also have a caveat
that.
you're, are you leaving them inthe water for all that time?
Or are they going up and down inand out of the water?
So I do 150 degrees which is alittle bit on the hot side to
most people, 148 is how we setour scalders when they go out
(27:08):
and we just tell people, eventhere, but if you go in and out
of the water somehow, if you'reholding them with your hands by
the feet, or you're usingshackles, which looks like you
push h all the way under feet anjiggle it and then you li heads
out of the water an for threeseconds.
(27:29):
Then y process to me is usuallyI think when you said 15
seconds, you were talking aboutjust completely holding them
down under water and jigglingthem around for all that time.
Is that right?
I'm a swisher.
I swish them in a swisher! Ishould have known you were a
swisher.
This is funny.
(27:49):
Are you a one bird swisher or atwo bird swisher?
Jennifer (27:54):
I'm a one bird swisher because we're old school.
We use a turkey fryer pot.
So there's only one bird goingin there.
But we have fluffy birds.
So I swish them to get all thosesoft feathers on the underside.
David (28:07):
Yeah.
Things I don't know.
So you're talking about spentlaying hens,
Jennifer (28:11):
we so I raise Cochins and Orpingtons for show, but
then we have to eat the onesthat make the cut.
Carey (28:18):
Yep.
Jennifer (28:19):
And so we actually pluck the heritage birds but we
skin the Cornish, so go figure.
So Cornish
David (28:28):
are easier to pluck, though.
Jennifer (28:30):
They are.
I'm not dissing it at all, butjust for the way we eat in our
household, we just skin theCornish, but the heritage birds,
the broth that you get from theskin, the bones, and everything
is so rich.
We can't even compare it.
We actually lug out the pluckerwhen we go to do the roosters
(28:50):
and stuff from the heritagebirds.
David (28:52):
The main thing the newbie needs to know is that the age
makes a huge difference, doesn'tit?
It does.
So even in a Cornish, if you letthem get older or like people
say, redbirds pluck harder thanwhitebirds.
It's not necessarily the breed,but those redbirds are 12 weeks
old.
The whitebirds were eight orseven.
(29:13):
And so just those four weeks canmake a difference in how those
feathers are set.
And on your spent hands or onesthat didn't make the cut for
whatever reason, those birds arequite old by then, a half a year
at least, their feathers will bea lot harder to get out.
Anybody who's plucked layinghands they've earned a stripe or
two because it's a totallydifferent, it's much harder than
(29:34):
the Cornish.
So
Jennifer (29:35):
how does your equipment do for ducks and
turkeys?
David (29:39):
You just said a four letter word.
God made ducks waterproof.
Turkeys are no problem.
Turkeys are no problem at all.
But God made ducks waterproof.
And the most important thingabout plucking a duck is the
(30:01):
molt.
You have to hit the molt.
You have to hit the molt.
You have to hit the molt.
Those are the three mostimportant things about plucking
a duck, or a goose.
And the molts are at eight weeksand 12 weeks, but you'll know
for sure when you see the littlebreast feathers getting pushed
out by the new feather comingin.
And I've never done it.
(30:22):
I've not raised my own ducks.
I've helped a couple of peoplepluck ducks, one with wax, one
without.
I've never felt really goodabout the job I did, but if you
look in the store or at a finerestaurant, You're going to see,
you're going to see hairfollicles on all those ducks.
And another secret to doingducks, I think, is to use white
(30:44):
ducks.
Because if you use dark ducksit'll look like they're really
hairy.
White ducks won't show it.
But they're so worth it.
And let me give a plug for theAmerican Pasture Poultry
Producers Association.
And the latest issue, I thinkit's the latest.
No, this is March, April, is byprobably one of the best duck
(31:04):
men in the country, Ben Grimes.
And he's, the article isdemystifying ducks.
There is so much greatinformation in this magazine.
Everybody, first of all, oughtto have their animals on
pasture, moving them every day.
That's why we do the chickenshift.
Put in the manure pinpointprecision where it should go
(31:24):
instead of leaving yourself achore and keeping the chickens
cleaner and then yeah, like evenducks ducks, everything's
discussed in this periodical,our newsletter, and I love it.
People share information sofreely and then online as well.
It's a great resource.
You guys are probably very awareof that.
(31:44):
Appa.
org best money you can spend.
Jennifer (31:49):
Carrie joined is part of the app thing.
I'm not.
Carey (31:53):
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah.
I've definitely learned a lotfrom joining APA.
They, I went to their show backin January and the different
seminars that they had, Ilearned so much about pastured
poultry, be it Cornish heritagebirds, They had things set up
(32:17):
all for all different stages ofthe bird's life to help teach
people how to take care of themand how to manage it.
David (32:26):
Yep.
It's getting more and moresophisticated every year, Kerry.
I love that.
I love the conference and Theconference is, it just blows me
away.
The quality of people, thesophistication.
My, my era was, we were feedingliver to try to keep the splayed
legs from happening.
And then Jeff Maddox andFortrell came along.
(32:48):
And that was history, so theproblems I had are not the
problems that the growers havetoday and they're, they're
figuring out refrigeration andstuff like that.
Carey (33:01):
Yeah.
David (33:01):
They're so far down the road and so unafraid to do 5,
000 birds a year.
Homesteaders don't need to dothat.
It's good to know there's verysmall scale people doing that.
And chickens are the easiestthing to sell.
They're the foot in the door forall the other meats you want to
grow or vegetables or flowers orwhatever, but Chickens are easy
(33:23):
to sell.
Eggs are easier.
Jennifer (33:26):
All right, so Let's see back to the newbie stuff So
you have the chicken ships whichwould be how to move them around
your field or yard in acontrolled manner, controlled
David (33:39):
predator proof.
Jennifer (33:42):
So that canvas top is predator proof?
David (33:45):
Yes.
Okay.
A bear could get into it
Jennifer (33:49):
Okay.
David (33:50):
If I had to worry about bears, a raccoon could get into
it, but I've never heard of onedoing that.
I haven't heard of a beargetting into one of these, but
I've heard of bears getting intochicken pens.
If I had to deal with bears I'dput a hot tape around the.
A big piece and then just movewithin the big move within the
hot tape.
Carey (34:09):
Oh, but yeah,
David (34:10):
no I do not tolerate any predation anymore.
I've been involved.
I've had so many predatorattacks.
I had eight Salatin pens and Ilost a lot of birds in Salatin
pens.
I've had, I've been a part of an8, 000 layer on pasture
operation.
I was a consultant for it, andwe fought aerial predation.
(34:33):
I started out I started out whenI went to my, my homestead
didn't have electricity there.
We had eight solar panels, verysmall system.
And I made a 20 by 40 foot PVC,called it the prairie schooner.
That was the very first prairieschooner, covered with a big
billboard tarp.
It's cheap and I brooded inthere and it worked.
(34:56):
It worked great.
I had to move my brooding intoApril late April instead of
March or early April.
But I got along fine with thelittle birds staying warm.
The brooder kept them warm forthree days and then it ran out
of propane and they stayed fineon their own.
Maybe I lucked out, but I'm abig advocate for brooding on
(35:17):
pasture.
Anyway Yeah, that model, the PVCprairie schooner, these folks
with 8, 000 layers on pasture,built 22 of them, and they're
great until they're not, they'regonna, they're gonna be
destroyed sooner than later,sooner or later, and it's
(35:38):
usually sooner, and yeah wefought predators, I fought
predators in, in, in mine, owlsand hawks, and I just decided
didn't want to build a metalversion of the prairie schooner
because it was just tooexpensive.
It was going to be 7, 000 orclose to it.
I actually built a smaller onethat was about five and change.
(36:01):
And but I decided that zeropredation is the goal.
And it's just no fun to, to doall the work we do and then
have.
Predators pick off your stock.
So we went to we made the firstmovable chicken tractors, the
Prairie schooners.
That was about 2011 or 12 andtwo sizes.
(36:25):
So I've been in that space for awhile.
And when the 10 by 12 aluminumcoops came out, I'm looking out
my window at two of them rightnow.
I couldn't believe people wouldpay for that.
And then.
I talked to my friend, RosannaBauman at the conference, you
were talking about Carey, buttwo years ago, and I said,
Rosanna, did you see thoseAlumi-Coop and she said, yeah,
(36:45):
can you believe how expensivethey are?
And I said, no.
And she said, my sister boughtone.
Rosanna's a.
I think she's a German Baptist.
She's some plain plain folkgroup in Kansas.
I visited their farm a coupletimes.
Garnett, Kansas.
Rosanna's the superstar.
I met her when she was 18 yearsold and she's just set the world
(37:05):
on fire with her own operations.
She's got a beef plant and apoultry processing plant.
Anyway, she said, yeah, mysister bought one and I went out
and looked at it and you knowwhat?
I think it's worth it.
I said, no kidding.
And I just couldn't get out ofmy head.
And so we became dealers.
And as I said, it was good andnot so good.
(37:25):
We couldn't ship them andthey're too expensive.
So we made a less expensiveversion by.
Instead of buying expensive premade pipes, we took a sheet of
aluminum and with asophisticated program, it
figures out where all yourpieces go so that you have the
least drop, the least waste onthat sheet.
(37:47):
And we cut it into C channelinstead of a whole tube.
And so our costs are a lot lessto do that because we have this
great how to write fabricatorand not only are the costs less,
but we're A lot lighter becauseof that as well.
Same strength of aluminummembers, but a lot less weight.
Anyway, so yeah, I'm reallyexcited about it because to me,
(38:10):
it's the next step after you'vehad a coop and raised birds
close to your house and foughtpredation, even with a
stationary coop, everybody does.
The, these things are.
I guess weasels can get inthere, but I don't hear of
weasel attacks very often.
I had one once, I think, but no,I've only had one predator
(38:32):
attack on, on the aluma coop,and it was within the first two
hours of when I put that outthere one of the little babies
was small enough to get her headthrough the So like the one inch
screen and I know a hawk, a redshoulder, a red shouldered hawk
(38:52):
got her and cause I just found aheadless body.
And then I had the hawk sittingon top of that little coop for a
couple of days, it would comelooking for heads poking out
anyway yeah, virtually predatorfree put the manure where you
want it.
The chickens get a daily saladbar.
In addition to their the rationthat you give them.
(39:13):
Oops.
And and a clean bedding everynight.
It's just it's the highest levelof stewardship husbandry.
I think that you can do, and ittakes a learning curve to get
there and be willing to pay forit.
It's still a lot of money, butit's not as much as anything
else out there.
So we've, at Featherman, we'vealways been extremely
sympathetic because we've livedthrough.
(39:36):
Homesteading and making a livingout of selling pasture based
animals.
And we're not here get rich on,on our products.
We're here to solve problems andhelp more people be on the land.
And that's what really turns uson.
Jennifer (39:54):
So that's one thing that I am hearing and I like is
that me and you are similar inthe way that we promote the
products that we use.
We're just not somebody that's abusinessman that sees a niche in
the market and sits at his deskin New York and wants to fill it
with.
With imported stuff.
(40:14):
We're actually out there usingit.
You're using your equipment outof necessity I have foam that I
created for shipping eggs, and Iuse that And kerry has a need
and found Feed and minerals andeverything.
And does that.
So we're similar in that sensethat we're actually using the
(40:35):
materials and we know that theywork and we're putting them out
there on the market for otherpeople.
David (40:42):
Yep.
To me, that's, that's thrilling,isn't it?
To identify a need, come up withan idea of your own that, that,
that addresses it and thenactually.
make it happen for other folksas well.
To me, it doesn't get betterthan that.
I benefit from you.
You benefit from me and thecommunity.
(41:04):
The community of small farmersis such a beautiful thing in
this fractured, fragmented,crazy world we live in.
We, we can we know, we can getonline or get on the phone and
talk to sane people like us
Jennifer (41:17):
We reach out to people, same crazy chicken
David (41:19):
people.
Jennifer (41:21):
We reach out to people who are actually doing it
though.
They know, and they know, hey,you can put a point on this
thing to fix it, or you canshift it this way to, to fix
this and tweak it, And
David (41:34):
We're still at the beginning stage, we really are.
There's so much more that, thatcan happen.
We're all still pioneers.
I'm convinced of it.
There's just a lot yet to befigured out.
And feed, feed, by the way,Carrie, did you say Carrie was
doing stuff with feed?
Yeah, that see, that's alwaysbeen a mystery to me and it
(41:56):
still is right now because Ionly have a few birds I can't
order in bulk and I know I don'tkeep it.
I had it's too old by the timeI'm using the last of it.
I don't like it.
And the only way I rationalizeall that is that I move them
every time I'm out there,sometimes four times a day.
Carey (42:14):
And I know
David (42:15):
they're, I know they're picking up stuff because they
get excited every time I movethem, but I'm, I feel pretty
inferior about my feedmanagement.
If you can help me on a, thesmall scale the 20,
Carey (42:28):
do you know bergen Farms, he's down in Florida.
He actually brings some feeddown from Pennsylvania that is
formulated by Jeff.
Huh.
So look them up.
He sells it in his farm storeand that, I don't know exactly
(42:50):
where y'all are in relation toeach other, but that's a feed
that was designed by Jeff.
And he feeds it, he does turkeysand broilers on his farm.
David (43:03):
Okay.
Carey (43:04):
Okay.
David (43:05):
I have some other folks, Dave and Ginger Shields.
You probably remember them from,is it the, if it's the same feed
that they do, cause they're,they deal with Jeff as well.
Carey (43:16):
Yep, it is.
David (43:18):
See, they're not, they're two hours for me.
I actually am one of theircustomers.
I drive 38 miles to their mostsouthern point to, to buy meat
from them.
And it's not worth it for themto bring me a sack of feed too.
But I'd like to ask them,
Carey (43:34):
If they're bringing you some chicken they can bring you
a back or two of feed as well,don't you think?
I'm sure I know both of them.
They're great people.
David (43:41):
No, they are.
They're wonderful.
They're superstars.
They're right up there withPolly face in my book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carey (43:48):
It was great to meet you today, David.
David (43:50):
Yeah.
There's Ruby.
She's the star.
It's great to meet you too,Carrie.
I've seen your, I've seen yourname around and probably seen
your byline on A few APPPAconversations.
Maybe that's where
Carey (44:04):
yeah, I know I've seen you
David (44:05):
at the conference.
Carey (44:06):
Yep.
Yep.
David (44:08):
Thanks for having me guys.
I applaud your mission ofhelping the homesteaders start
up It's a confusing amount ofthings to, place to juggle for
the newbie.
And I know it, I've been thereand want to help however I can.
And I support what you do.
I think it's great.
All the information exchangegoing on.
Carey (44:31):
Thank you for joining us this week.
Before you go, be sure tosubscribe to our podcast so you
can receive new episodes rightwhen they are released.
And they're released every week.
Feel free to email us atpoultrynerds at gmail.
com to share your thoughts aboutthe show.
Until next time, poultry pals,keep clucking, keep learning,
(44:53):
and keep it egg citing.
This is Carey signing off fromPoultry Nerds.
Feathers up, everyone.
Mhm.
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