February 2, 2026 • 39 mins
You don’t need a bigger audience. You need the right kind of attention.
In this episode (the first in our series of interviews with the PWR 2025 Impact Award winners), I’m joined by two brilliant women who know what it takes to build credibility, visibility, and trust without going viral or chasing vanity metrics.
Emily Aborn, host of Small Business Casual and PWR Podcast Host of the Year, shares how she creates a real human connection - even when recording a podcast episode alone.
KJ Blattenbauer, PWR Speaker of the Year and author of Pitchworthy, shares why depth, intention, and audience advocacy matters more than visibility for visibility’s sake.
Both of my guests agree that podcasting, speaking, and other forms of PR are relationship-driven tools that help the right people find you, trust you, and buy from you.
We also discuss:
- Choosing visibility opportunities based on your actual business goals
- What it really means to read the room — and when to ditch the script
- How to use podcasts, speaking, and PR to borrow trust instead of chasing attention
- Simple, practical tools you can apply immediately, even if visibility scares you a little!
Links & References:
- Learn more about all the 2025 Powerful Women Rising Impact Award winners
- Connect with other female entrepreneurs inside the PWR Connection Network
- Listen to the Small Business Casual podcast
- Follow Emily on Substack
- Get your copy of KJ's new book, Pitchworthy
- Follow KJ on Instagram
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist and the founder of Powerful Women Rising - a business growth ecosystem for female entreprenuers who want to create real momentum through real relationships.
Inside the PWR Connect Network and the PWR Business Growth Mastermind, Melissa helps women in business get build relationships, increase visibility and get more referrals without pressure, perfection or performative networking.
She's on a mission to change the way women grow their businesses - proving that you can be authentic, values-driven and profitable at the same time.
Melissa lives in Colorado with two dogs (Peyton and Ally), three cats (Giorgio, Karma and Betty) and any number of foster kittens. She hates winter, seafood and feet. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and buying books she'll never read.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Hello, ladies.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us, Melissa.
Yeah, thank you for having us.
Yeah, I should say welcome back,Emily.
This is like your third time onthe podcast, right?
Oh my gosh.
Am I the only three-timer?
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Because that will be very exciting or a monumentus
moment.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
You're like a 120-timer because you are the
voice of my intro and my outrotoo.
So you are in every singleepisode.
This is exciting.
I know.
You're like a superstar.
Okay, so I'm so excited.
We are doing um a series ofinterviews with the winners of
the 2025 Powerful Women RisingImpact Awards.
(00:42):
This is the second year in a rowthat we've done those awards.
And this year it just took offlike crazy.
I was so amazed by how manynominations we got, how many
votes we got, all of the amazingwomen that I had no idea even
existed, um, that now I knowabout because of these awards,
and it's been really fun.
So this is the first of thoseinterviews, and I'm excited to
(01:04):
chat with the two of you.
Emily is the winner of thepodcast host of the year award,
and then KJ is the winner of theSpeaker of the Year Award.
And that is my foster kitten.
She did not win any awards, butshe wants to be a part of this
interview as well.
Um, she could very easily win anaward.
I don't know.
She's very cute.
Cutest kitten award.
(01:25):
I know, I know she is until thenext kitten comes in.
And then I'm like, actually,that one is the cutest.
Okay, so before we dive in,Emily, tell everybody a little
bit about you, what you do, allthe things.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Okay, thank you.
And thanks for the opportunity.
So I love that we have thesynergy of podcast host and
speaker.
I think that's gonna make areally nice.
We're gonna have similarthoughts, I bet.
Um, I am a podcast host, asMelissa said, of the Small
Business Casual Podcast.
It's a mostly solo show with afew exceptions for like my BFFs
(01:59):
when I want to have them on asguests.
Um, and it's all about how torun a business that's successful
and thriving, but also lets youlive your normal life the way
you want to live it.
So you're not, you know, thatwork life balancing.
I don't really believe in that,but I do believe that we can be
successful in all areas of ourlife if we are not overextending
(02:21):
ourselves all the time in ourbusinesses.
So that's what that's all about.
Um, I'm a copywriter, so I workon website copy and blogs and
any of those little tinytaglines and things that people
get tripped up in and stare at ablinking cursor for days and
days and days.
I come in to save them.
So that's it in a nutshell.
(02:41):
Uh, I live in New Hampshire,which I feel like that just
pretty much tells you everythingyou need to know about my
personality.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I don't even know what that means.
I'm gonna have to ask ChatGPT,Google that.
Tell me, tell me about peoplewho live in New Hampshire.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
No, I think everybody okay, the stereotype
is that in the northern stateson the east coast, we tend to be
very quick, talk fast, thinkfast, move fast, uh, a little
sarcastic maybe at times.
And but you get in somebody'scircle and you are like in for a
lifetime.
So okay, that tracks actually.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Yeah, that's good.
Those are good things, those areall good things.
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Yeah, it sounds exactly like you.
I can't even remember actuallyhow we met, but I feel like it's
been years and you're like oneof my favorite people that I've
never met in real life.
I wonder how we met.
I'm gonna think about thislater, Melissa.
Thank you.
I know you're just one of thosepeople that's always been
around.
I don't know where you camefrom, but I'm glad you're here.
(03:41):
KJ, tell everybody a little bitabout you and what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Hi, I'm KJ Blattenbauer.
I am a public relations pro withalmost 30 years of experience in
PR.
I've worked in big and smallagencies, corporate, not
corporate, nonprofits, crisiscommunications, celebrity in
Hollywood, athletes, all of it.
But I've had my own PR agencyfor the last 14 years, and I'm
(04:06):
also an author.
I have a new book that's outrecently called Pitchworthy.
But I love telling peoplestories.
And I think that so many smallbusiness owners, especially
female founders, have justamazing stories to tell.
And I think that publicrelations is the best way for
them to do it.
One, because it's free, but alsobecause it's just a great way to
share what you're doing, whetherit's a business, a brand, a
(04:28):
service, or a product with theworld.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
You're obviously great at PR because when you
came on this call, I asked thetwo of you if you knew each
other.
And Emily was like, no, but Ifeel like I've seen you
somewhere.
I'm like, you have, becauseshe's all over the place.
Success.
It's working.
It's working.
I love it.
Okay, so let's talk a little bitabout your specific awards.
I know that speaking is not yoursole focus, KJ.
(04:52):
And I know podcast hosting isnot your sole focus, Emily, but
I want to talk specificallyabout those things today, just
because that is what the awardsthat you won are.
And they they have a significantpart to play in what each of you
does in your business as welland what you help people with.
So I want to start with you,Emily.
What do you think has been yourbiggest lesson that you've
(05:15):
learned as a podcast host?
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
Oh, okay, this is fun.
So as a, I would say as a host,it's twofold.
Um, you you said biggest, butI'm gonna give you kind of like
two.
One is that I started to learnto follow my curiosity a whole
lot more.
And like the things that when Ifind myself really, really
interested and passionate andexcited about a topic, it can't
(05:38):
help but come through in how Ishare it.
So that's number one for anybodystarting a podcast.
Like you're not gonna be able tosustain it on if you're not
interested.
I will say that.
Um, and the other thing Ilearned, and I learned this
pretty quick, and I learned itby listening back to a lot of my
interviews.
So I used to have aninterview-only podcast or
(05:59):
interview primarily podcast, andI listened to those after I
would record them to like, youknow, check for edits and things
like that.
I learned how not to interview.
And that was like basically Ihad a list of questions printed
out, and I would just boom,boom, boom, boom, boom through
all the questions.
And when my guest responded,rather than like having a
(06:19):
conversation with them, youknow, rather than making it a
natural flowing thing, I wouldjust be like, oh, I love that.
And then I would just move on tothe next question.
So I learned really quickly,number one, the power of like
really listening back to yourinterviews because it teaches
you so much about your own.
You can do it solos too, butjust teaches you a lot about the
things that you, the bad habitsyou have and the good habits you
(06:42):
have.
Um, and I learned to make itmore conversational and natural.
And it's so much more fun.
It's like nobody wants to justsit there like they're in the
hot seat the whole time.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:54):
That's probably those lessons are true for
speaking as well, right?
KJ?
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Oh, a hundred a hundred percent.
I think you have to be so manypeople, I think, go up on stage
and they have a script andthey're only reading their
script and they're not gonnasway from their script.
But if you're literally notreading the room, if the
audience is engaged, what theirbody language is, if you're
hitting, if your timing isright, all of those things, you
are going to never be asked backand you're gonna have a horrible
(07:19):
time.
And like you can feel it when acrowd is not engaged whatsoever.
I spoke earlier this year and Ihad a whole speech prepared.
I was ready to go.
I was like, knock this one outof the park.
It's fine, you know, the great,on to the next thing.
And I got up on stage and Ilooked at everyone and they
looked just literally like eyesglassed over from the last
speaker, like they were ready toall walk out of the room.
(07:41):
And I just set my speech downand I said, I know you guys have
spent like two really long days,and I want you to get something
actual.
And I threw my speech out thewindow right then and there.
And I just started asking peoplerandomly, like, hey, what do you
do?
Have you tried public relations?
What if you try this, this, orthis tomorrow?
And I think I ended up goingover like 45 minutes and they
just kept letting me talkbecause people were so excited
(08:02):
to finally find something thatsomeone was going to engage with
on something actionable thatthey could take away.
And I think it's just reallytaking two seconds to listen,
whether it's on a podcast orwhether you're speaking, even in
just conversation or pickingyour your brain call with
someone, what are they trulysaying?
I don't think we do enoughlistening and hearing what
people truly want or what theytruly need.
(08:23):
And it's such a disservice toconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I could not I think as a podcasthost, I've realized like how
hard it is to listen activelywhile also thinking of what I'm
going to say next, right?
Because it's not like it is likea regular conversation, but it's
also not like a regularconversation.
And so I'm trying to payattention to you.
I'm trying to like think whatdirection is the best direction
(08:49):
for this to go in, but I'm alsotrying to listen to you at the
same time.
And it's, I mean, podcasthosting is like waitressing,
right?
Like it's not rocket science,but it's also not for everyone.
No, it is not.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
I think as a podcast host, you have a special, an
extra special job to do becausein addition to having the
conversation, you're advocatingalso for your listener.
So you kind of have to puteverything through the mind of
your listener at the same time.
You're kind of like bodydoubling, right?
You're you, but you're alsothem, and making sure that it's
(09:21):
delivering something that theycan really use and implement.
And I think that's hugelyimportant.
And I think advocating for yourlistener is the way that people
end up loving your podcast uhand relating to it and
connecting to it.
Um, but it is a big job.
It's hard.
It's it's a skill that youpractice over and over and over
again.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
Yeah.
Very similar with speaking.
And with speaking, I think youhave to think about like
yourself as the audience.
What would you have wanted tohappen if you had been sitting
there listening to people speakfor six hours?
And then this woman got up onstage.
Like, did you want to hear hermemorized speech?
Or, you know, being able to putyourself.
(10:01):
I always try to think when I'minterviewing somebody, like, if
I were listening to thispodcast, that's the thing that
drives me nuts.
Is I listen to a podcast and theguest says something and I'm
like, yeah, but how do you dothat?
Or like, what would that looklike?
Or what would the first step be,or whatever.
I'm like, ask her the question.
And then they're like, Emily101.
They're like, oh, I love that.
Anywho, and very true withspeaking too, right?
(10:24):
Like you have to think aboutwhat is it that people who are
listening to this really want tohear.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think in every facet of
it, we all learned it inkindergarten, right?
It's the basic lesson.
You treat other people how youwant to be treated, right?
If I'm going to be on a stage, Iwant to, what do I, what would I
want to hear if I was anaudience member?
I took a huge break between mylast speaking gig and when I
started speaking again in 2025.
(10:49):
I probably took two or threeyears off.
I just did not want to be on astage.
But in that time I studied,okay, when I'm going to other
events, what are people speakingabout?
How does it make me feel?
Is this really what relevant?
When I leave somewhere and itmakes me feel like this was a
waste of my time.
Why do I feel that way?
Because I never want someone toleave somewhere where I'm
speaking or an event I'm at orI'm hosting, heaven forbid, and
(11:10):
feel like it was a waste oftheir time or worse, a waste of
their money.
Because that's, you know, whensomeone commits dollars or time
to you, that's a big investment.
Whether it is monetarily a biginvestment, even their time,
like that's a gift.
And I think whether it's on apodcast, whether it's on a
stage, you have to put yourselfin that other person's shoes.
I make sure that all of mypublic relations clients are
(11:30):
prepped for that stage and theyhave that ahead of time.
But I also make sure it's anhonor to be invited on someone's
stage.
It's an honor to be asked to beon someone's podcast.
You have to pull your own weightas a guest.
Like you can't let the host, youcan't let the MC do all the
heavy lifting.
You have to show up, you have tobe engaged, you have to be
excited about what you'retalking about, and you have to
provide some value to thelistener, no matter what the
(11:52):
platform is you're on, podcaststage, whatnot, or you're not
going to be asked back.
And I think too many peopleoverlook, they take it for
granted.
Like, oh, I'm just on this stageand tomorrow I want to be on
this bigger stage, or I'm notgetting enough money for this,
so I'm only going to put inminimal effort or things of that
nature.
And I think that's such ahorrible mindset.
It truly is a gift to be able toshare your expertise with
(12:12):
someone on any platform and totreat it any other way, I think
is just sad.
KJ, I genuinely do love that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
And I agree.
And I'm always saying this likea podcast interview is not just
another appointment in yourcalendar.
You know, it's you're reallyshowing up.
And a collaboration, I alwayssay the best collaboration is
one plus one equals way morethan one.
So you're showing up, you'reboth bringing your skill set to
the table, and you're creatingsomething that has literally
never existed before.
(12:42):
That is an incredibleopportunity.
And the person on the otherside, like they've never heard
this exact conversation before.
That's amazing when you reallythink about it like that.
I it gets me all excited.
So um, I just want to echo whatyou say and really the
importance and the gift of it tobe able to collaborate with
other people.
unknown (13:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Right.
Because we've all beensomewhere, right, where you feel
like it's a cattle call.
Like they're on a call with you,it's just another Zoom, or maybe
it's Riverside, or maybe it'sstringent, whatever it is, but
you can tell they don't care.
They're ready for the nextthing.
Maybe they have a dentistappointment, maybe lunch is in
15 minutes.
Like you really know they're notpaying attention to you, and
you're just like, why am I here?
Like you're literally justrattling off things as quick as
(13:21):
you can to get me off here asfast as you can.
What is the point?
And you and on the stage too,you can tell when a speaker's
heart's not in it, or they'vedone it too much, or they're
phoning it in.
Like, there's a reason why youshow up, you're camera ready,
you smile when you talk, you'reengaged.
Like, otherwise, don't botherbecause people can see through
it.
They can see when it'sinauthentic, they can see when
(13:42):
you don't want to be there.
And if you truly don't want tobe there, why are you there?
You're wasting everyone's time.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah.
These are really good pointstoo.
I think even for somebody who'slistening, who's like, I have
zero interest in being on astage and I have zero interest
in being on a podcast, right?
Like I'm gonna ask you in asecond about this, KJ, because I
think when we think about PR, Imean, I think when most people
think about PR, we think I don'tneed PR because I'm not, you
know, Marie Forleo.
(14:10):
Um, but I know that's not true.
And I know that there's a lotmore to PR than just speaking
and podcasting, right?
And I think everything that bothof you are saying is relevant,
whether you are sending an emailto your email list, you are
posting something on socialmedia, you're writing a book,
you're doing a guest blog postsomewhere, right?
(14:32):
Like we have such a tendency,and I don't know if this is an
entrepreneur thing, if this is awoman thing, if this is just a
human thing, to like nothing isenough, right?
Like only five people read myemail.
Only 10 people clicked on thatlink.
Only 50 people downloaded mypodcast episode.
But when you really stop andthink about it, you're like,
(14:52):
okay, that's like you thinkabout how many emails we get in
a day.
And there were five people outthere who thought whatever you
had to say was important enoughto actually read.
There were 50 people out therewho thought, like, they took 30
minutes of their really busy dayto listen to your podcast
because they thought what youhad to say was important enough.
(15:12):
And I don't think the value ofthat, whether it's a social
media post or you speaking onstage for an hour really can be
understated.
SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
No, I think, and I think you're right, because if
you look, if you flip the termsof it, so many people are
worried about the vanity metricof things.
Like, how many downloads do Ihave?
How many likes did this postget?
How many views of my real Ben?
Like how many people are on myemail list?
If there were five peoplefollowing me on the street right
now, I'd be a little nervous.
If there were 50, I'd be headingto a police station.
Like you have to, you know, ifthere's 250 people on your email
(15:44):
list, that's more than enoughpeople to fill a movie theater.
Like you have to put it intoperspective, right?
It's definitely quality overquantity to an extent across
everything, right?
Like I have a huge Instagramfollowing.
I can tell you a majority ofthose people, yeah, they care
about the PR stuff.
They're, you know, they'reengaging, they're wonderful.
A lot of them, they just carewhat boots I'm wearing that day
(16:07):
or my dogs.
I have more requests for what mydogs are doing that I barely
show than anything else.
And so I think it's all justnumbers are relative.
Show up, provide quality, butyou have to show up where your
people are, where your audienceis, and you have to keep
engaging them and providing themwhat they need.
But you also have to look at itfrom the lens of okay, today is
(16:28):
one person, tomorrow might befive people, a month from now it
might be 10.
And if 10 people are buying your$1,000 service, that's amazing.
That's a great month for you.
If 10 people are following youon the street, like you be
checking your shoulder, youknow, like it's just it's all a
mindset shift.
And I think social media hasspoiled us in so many great
(16:49):
ways, but it also has kind ofruined us in a few.
And I think everyone needs tojust take a step back and a
breath and realize hey,community shows up in a variety
of different ways.
And sometimes it's not in growthnumbers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
I did a post on this just today because I'm I I think
when we decide to show upbecause of numbers, like when
there is a vanity metricattached, we show up in a
different way.
We show up like pandering to thealgorithm or pandering to what
we think is gonna get moreeyeballs or more likes, or we're
clickbaity, right?
Or using trying to find theseperfect little taglines that
(17:24):
capture people's attention.
When for me, what is moreimportant, it's not that
somebody's looking at somethingquick for five seconds because
it's super snappy.
It's that somebody is takingtime to like really read the
depth of what I'm writing.
And I'm not gonna show, Idecided it today.
I'm like, I'm not doing thatthis year.
Like, I I maybe it'll decreasemy numbers and how many people
(17:45):
see things, but I want to showup in a way where I am providing
the depth or speaking the depththat I want to, and I can't do
that.
Like, sorry, but we most of usare too nuanced to to be, you
know, 10, 10 words or less in alittle social media caption.
So show up as that, you know.
And if you're if you'repandering to these numbers, it's
(18:06):
really, really hard to be whoyou actually are.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Right.
Yeah, right.
And I think I think part of thattoo is it's free, right?
Like you, if with the vanitymattress of things, you feel
tied to something.
I have to act this way, I haveto post this way, I have to post
this many times, I have to postby this time.
It's all this pressure.
I took two years off of socialmedia, didn't post one time, and
it didn't hurt my business atall.
It didn't hurt my appearances,it didn't hurt any of the media
(18:31):
coming my way, it didn't hurt myclients whatsoever.
But what it did taught me, teachme is that I don't need to play
the game.
I post now when I want to post,what I want to post, how I want
to post it, because I think it'sfunny and I reshare things that
I like, and it's kind of broughtjoy back to the platform for me.
But it's also taught me thatokay, sometimes when I see the
(18:51):
vanity metrics creeping in, Ican see myself pulled to
perform, kind of like a circusmonkey.
And I'm like, no, well, this iswhere we take a step back.
It has to be fun, it has tomatter to me.
And outside of that, it's justnoise that I don't need for my
business or my goals.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
Yeah, that's exactly why I'm so obsessed with threads
right now.
I don't know why I say right nowbecause I've been talking about
how obsessed I am with threadsfor a while now, but I just like
that feels like such a spacewhere you can just like say what
you want to say.
And I never think about like, Ithink it's probably because you
don't have to have a graphic,you don't have to have a video,
it doesn't have to be long.
You can just be like, here'ssomething funny, I thought in
(19:30):
one sentence.
And you made me think of this,KJ, because I did early on when
I was like, I'm gonna usethreads for my business.
I'm gonna be really intentionaland serious about this.
And so I had someone who runs athreads course, a very popular
threads course, do an audit ofmy threads profile.
And so she went through it andwas like, here's what's working,
here's what's not working.
The first thing she said whenshe sent me the audit was, I
(19:53):
looked at your threads profilefor 10 minutes and I can't even
tell that you have a business orwhat your business is.
And I was like, Good.
Like this is why I like threads,right?
Like, I'm just gonna do what Iwant to do over here.
And maybe I'm gonna get aclient, maybe I'm not, but I'm
gonna be me and I'm gonna dowhat I want to do.
And I think that that is what isresonating from reading the
(20:16):
things that people submittedwhen they nominated each of you.
That is what is resonating withpeople, right?
It's not like Emily is perfect,all of her shows are perfectly
scripted.
She never makes a mistake, shelike never tells a joke that's
not funny.
This is why Emily should win,right?
It's like people love youbecause you are you, because you
(20:37):
are real, because you'reauthentic.
And same with you, KJ.
It's not like she's the mostpolished speaker we've ever seen
in our whole life, andeverything is executed
perfectly.
It's like they talk about howyour confidence is contagious,
and the way that you tell astory feels like, you know,
they're sitting down listeningto somebody tell a story that's
never been told before, and it'sthe most interesting story
(20:59):
they've ever heard.
And that really is whatresonates with people so much
more than like Emily has themost downloads.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
But wait, did somebody really say that one of
my jokes wasn't funny?
Because I can't handle that kindof criticism.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
She goes right to the negative.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
That's that's very tell me who told me the most
tell me who said all my jokesare not funny.
No one, no one would ever saythat.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
I can tell already that all your jokes are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
No doubt.
No doubt.
Um, okay, so gosh, I feel like Icould talk to you guys forever.
Where do I want to go with this?
KJ, I want to circle back tosomething I said earlier about
PR because I know that's yourjam, and speaking is a big part
of that.
Tell us a little bit for peoplewho are listening to this, like
I said, who are like, I wouldrather do just about anything
(21:51):
than get up on a stage and speakin front of people.
Is PR still relevant to them andhow?
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Oh, I think PR is more relevant than ever.
PR isn't about speaking onstages.
You can do a million thingsbefore you speak on stage.
You don't have to speak onstage.
There are a lot of people whosegoal is to speak on stage or who
love speaking on stage.
But PR really is teaching peoplethe way to think and talk about
your brand when you're not inthe room.
It's just training people abouthow you want to have your
(22:18):
business service offeringpromoted.
I think so many people wait tillthey're a big deal or they're
six or seven figure earner.
When the truth is, publicrelations is perfect for the
zero-dollar side hustlersstartups to that six or seven
figures.
If you have a business, if youhave a brand, if you have a
brick and mortar, whatever itis, if you have a startup or an
app, people can't fund you.
They can't find you, they can'tbuy from you if they don't know
(22:41):
you exist.
And public relations is free,one, literally free, outside of
maybe buying my book, maybehiring a publicist to get you
started the right way.
It is a free avenue where youborrow other people's channels.
Like I could borrow Emily'spodcast.
I'm speaking on this podcastnow, and a whole new audience is
learning about my expertise, myofferings.
That I have a book, hint I havea book, you know, like those
(23:02):
sorts of things are what PRdoes.
It gives you a media's crediblethird-party seal of approval
that vets you as an expert.
And it helps you close sales andget customers faster than
anything else could.
Plus, also, it is free.
It's free.
Why would you not do a freething?
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's awesome.
I love that.
Okay.
Oh, I just quoted Emily.
I love that.
Okay, on to the next thing on myscript and check.
Um I'm gonna wrap up here in aminute, but before I do that, I
want to ask each of you aquestion.
So, Emily, I'm gonna start withyou.
What is one piece of advice thatyou would give to someone who is
(23:43):
just starting out withpodcasting or thinking about
starting a podcast or hasalready done it?
What what what's something thatyou wish that you knew when you
were getting started?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
Okay, if you're just in the thinking about starting a
podcast stage, I would say sitdown or stand up at your
standing desk, whatever youwant, and list out like 50
episode ideas.
Like, I'm not even kidding aboutthat number.
You're probably like, that's waymore than I need to think about
right now.
It is, and it will keep yougoing when that inspiration well
(24:18):
runs dry.
I have like a hundred of them,and new ones are flooding in all
the time.
If you can't come up with 50, Idon't think that you're going to
be able to survive the long gameof podcasting.
And that's okay.
I mean, you know, there'sdefinitely uh podcasts that do
it just for a little bit.
They do limited series andthings like that.
That is totally fine.
If you want one that is likegoing to be ongoing, I would
(24:41):
challenge yourself to come upwith those 50 topics.
If you've already got anestablished podcast, my biggest
hands-down tip is it doesn't, Imean, whether you're speaking or
podcasting, guesting or hosting,speak like you are speaking to
just one person in the audience.
When I'm a host, I like to sitdown and I actually envision I
(25:02):
am doing this episode forMelissa.
I am doing this episode forChristy, I'm doing this episode
for Amy.
Like I think about that person,maybe something that they've
recently told me about thatthey're struggling with, and I
just talk to them the entiretime.
So that's my biggest piece ofadvice.
People can feel it on the otherside.
The specific is universal, asthey say in the writing world.
(25:23):
It really does help to make likethat content you're sharing
very, very human and very, veryrelatable.
The thing I see counter to thatis like when people are talking
to, you know, they think likethousands of people are
listening and they say, like,hey listeners, hey everyone, it
just feels like a little bitdisconnected.
So I love speaking to just oneperson at a time.
(25:44):
Hey, friend, hey, listener, heyAmy.
I will say her name sometimes.
So, you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
I love that.
That's great advice.
And to piggyback off what yousaid earlier, too, I would say,
whether you are podcast guestingor hosting, force yourself to
listen to yourself.
I know you don't like it.
Nobody likes it.
And this is probably true forspeaking too, right?
Like I, when I was gettingpreparing to speak on the
biggest stage I'd ever spokenon, I recorded my speech like on
(26:14):
a voice memo and I listened toit over and over and over and
over again.
And it was cringy every singletime.
But it sure was better when Idid it on stage than it was that
first time I did it on therecording, right?
And same with podcasting.
Like I listened to some of the,it's been a while, but listening
to some of the like very firstepisodes I did of my first
(26:35):
podcast, I'm like, what are youdoing?
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
But I didn't know.
I think it's important though,on all aspects.
Like, I challenge every one ofmy clients, every media
interview you do, you have toread it.
You have to watch it, you haveto listen to it.
Because if you're not going to,why do you think anyone else
would want to?
And I'm always shocked when Ilike the Hollywood celebrities
are like, oh, I don't watch myinterviews, I don't read my
press, or I don't watch mymovies that I'm in.
(27:01):
But then how do you not know?
Like, you don't need to watch itfrom like a brutally critical
point of view, right?
Like no one's asking you to be amovie critic about it.
But at the same time, how do younot know where there's areas to
improve?
Or if you're saying like 900times and that's something you
have to rein in, or if you'redoing some weird thing with your
eyes when they're recording youon a camera and you're like, oh,
gotta focus on this.
Or, you know, like I do nervoushair flipping.
(27:23):
I'm sure I've nervously hairflipped my hair a million times
in this.
And so all of those things, ithelps you get better at your
messaging, it helps you be abetter performer, it helps you
be a better guest, but it alsohelps you get better at your
craft and your messaging.
You have to listen.
That's like a once you saidthat, Emily.
I was like, Yeah, that's amazingadvice.
You should always be listeningto yourself.
Always.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Yeah.
My thing was amazing.
I had no idea how many times Isaid amazing until I started
listening to it.
That and I thought I was likedoing a really good job being an
active listener.
So when I would interviewpeople, I would be like, Oh,
mm-hmm.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
And then when I listened to itback, I was like, you are so
(28:05):
distracting.
So now I sit here quietly.
I used to have a little stickynote up on the screen that's
like, here's 10 things you cansay other than amazing.
And that helped also.
It was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
That's a really good idea, actually.
Having little backup phraseswhen you do find yourself
saying, I always say vice versa.
My husband's like, it's viceversa, not vice versa, A.
And you say it all the time.
So yeah, catching yourself andbeing like, here's some
alternative options for you, mydear.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah.
You might need to bust out alittle sticky note there, M.
Um, KJ, how about for you?
Advice that you have for peoplewho are just starting to think
about PR or they're juststarting to think about speaking
on stage, or it's something thatthey really want to do or want
to do more of, what advice wouldyou give them?
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
My advice would be to figure out why.
Why do you really want to be onstage?
Why do you think that you needPR?
Like, what is your main endgoal?
For some, it just might be anego thing, like, I want to see
myself on stage.
Like, this is the next logicalstep for me.
And for other people, it's like,this is how I'm going to reach
my people.
So I think if you, whether it'sPR, speaking on stage, whatever
it is you do, know what yourmain goal is.
(29:13):
Because nine times out of 10,how you get to that goal is
finding the audience that helpsyou get there.
And that audience, they mightnot be watching people on
stages.
So then you might be spendingall your time, energy, money on
stages and not seeing any ROIfrom it.
You're like, wait, I'm onstages.
How do people not know who I am?
Why are they not buying mythings?
Well, that's because that's notwhere your people are.
But if you're true on your goaland you found that and you've
(29:35):
been honest about who yourtarget audience is, everything
from there falls in place,whether you just need to be on
podcasts, whether you just needto be in print, whether you just
need to be online, or whetheryou truly do need to be on those
stages.
I think it's important for us,especially as female founders,
we can do anything all on aTuesday, right?
Like millions and millions ofthings great at multitasking,
(29:56):
but then we're tired and we'reburnt out and we can't be our
best selves.
And so I think it's being veryclear like, here's who I serve
and what I really want to do.
Here's my end goal.
How do I serve those people?
And I think if you work your waybackwards, you're gonna easily
find the solution.
Here's where I need to invest mytime.
Here's truly where I need to be.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
That's brilliant.
Yeah, I love the idea ofthinking about why is that what
you want to do?
And that's that's honestly sucha good question for pretty much
anything in business, right?
That's that's the thing thatstops us from like anytime
someone asks me that question,I'm like, wait, why do I?
Like, is it because I saw Susieand Jane and they're both doing
it?
And so then I was like, well, Ineed to do that too.
(30:36):
Or is it because like I justfeel like that's where everybody
is, that's the next thing to do,that's what everybody else is
doing, or is there like a reallegitimate logical reason that I
want to do it?
Even if it is just that I wantto see my face on stage.
That's legit.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
That's legit.
That's really good advice.
Truly, like the ego is a great,is a great motivator, right?
It can get you to do so manythings.
It can also get you to do somany things that don't move the
needle or help you reach yourgoals.
And I think as long as you'rehonest with yourself, look, I do
at least three things a yearthat are purely only ego-driven,
(31:15):
and there is no ROI, and most ofthe time it's a boondoggle that
costs a ton of money.
I still do them to satisfy thatlittle itch.
And then I go back to thepractical things.
So I think I think it's justbeing well aware of who you are,
who you serve, and what youtruly want to do.
Then you can play with the funthings that are just for your
ego.
Yeah, absolutely.
(31:36):
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
Okay, so before we wrap up, Emily, I would love for
you to share.
Um, if anybody's listening tothis podcast and they want to
know more about you, they wantto know more about you do what
you do.
Your copywriting is amazing.
I've worked with you severaltimes on several things.
Um, I will definitely put thelink to your podcast in the show
notes.
Um, but where else can peoplefind you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:59):
Thank you.
Um, like KJ, I like to hang outon Instagram mostly.
So my handle on Instagram orwhatever they call it now is
just Emily Aborne, my first andlast name.
That's like where you can findme everywhere.
Um, but if you want to know allthe places that I am, you can go
to my website, emilyaborn.com.
Easiest way to get to yourfavorite platform.
(32:20):
And I would love to have youcome listen to my podcast.
We will have so much fun.
I will give you a personalwelcome.
If you write me a review thathas your name in it, I will give
you a personal hello.
SPEAKER_02 (32:32):
You will be the one person she speaks to in that
episode.
For better or worse.
What about you, KJ?
If people want to connect withyou, they want to learn more
about your um PR services.
Definitely I will put the linkfor your book in the show notes.
But where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
You can find me at hearsaypr.com.
That's h-e-a-r-sa-y-pr.com, orI'm hanging out on Instagram at
KJ Blattenbauer.
And like you, also KJBlattenbauer on Threads, where I
have no strategy and completelyunhinged, and will probably just
cheer on every bad decision thatyou're making.
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
Lovely.
I love it.
I'm sure I'm following you onthreads.
And if I'm not, I that was agood pitch for me to go do so.
Thank you so much, you guys.
Congratulations again on yourawards.
Those are so awesome.
I hope you feel so proud ofyourselves.
We got so many amazingnominations, so many people
voted, and um, the things thatpeople said about you were just
(33:30):
so beautiful.
So, congratulations.
Thank you so much for the workthat you're doing in the world
and what you are doing forfemale entrepreneurs everywhere.
You are absolutely two of themost powerful women rising that
I know.
And I appreciate you guys comingon the podcast.
Oh, thank you.
Thanks so much for having us.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Thank you for having us.
Hello, ladies.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us, Melissa.
Yeah, thank you for having us.
Yeah, I should say welcome back,Emily.
This is like your third time onthe podcast, right?
Oh my gosh.
Am I the only three-timer?
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Because that will be very exciting or a monumentus
moment.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
You're like a 120-timer because you are the
voice of my intro and my outrotoo.
So you are in every singleepisode.
This is exciting.
I know.
You're like a superstar.
Okay, so I'm so excited.
We are doing um a series ofinterviews with the winners of
the 2025 Powerful Women RisingImpact Awards.
(00:42):
This is the second year in a rowthat we've done those awards.
And this year it just took offlike crazy.
I was so amazed by how manynominations we got, how many
votes we got, all of the amazingwomen that I had no idea even
existed, um, that now I knowabout because of these awards,
and it's been really fun.
So this is the first of thoseinterviews, and I'm excited to
(01:04):
chat with the two of you.
Emily is the winner of thepodcast host of the year award,
and then KJ is the winner of theSpeaker of the Year Award.
And that is my foster kitten.
She did not win any awards, butshe wants to be a part of this
interview as well.
Um, she could very easily win anaward.
I don't know.
She's very cute.
Cutest kitten award.
(01:25):
I know, I know she is until thenext kitten comes in.
And then I'm like, actually,that one is the cutest.
Okay, so before we dive in,Emily, tell everybody a little
bit about you, what you do, allthe things.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Okay, thank you.
And thanks for the opportunity.
So I love that we have thesynergy of podcast host and
speaker.
I think that's gonna make areally nice.
We're gonna have similarthoughts, I bet.
Um, I am a podcast host, asMelissa said, of the Small
Business Casual Podcast.
It's a mostly solo show with afew exceptions for like my BFFs
(01:59):
when I want to have them on asguests.
Um, and it's all about how torun a business that's successful
and thriving, but also lets youlive your normal life the way
you want to live it.
So you're not, you know, thatwork life balancing.
I don't really believe in that,but I do believe that we can be
successful in all areas of ourlife if we are not overextending
(02:21):
ourselves all the time in ourbusinesses.
So that's what that's all about.
Um, I'm a copywriter, so I workon website copy and blogs and
any of those little tinytaglines and things that people
get tripped up in and stare at ablinking cursor for days and
days and days.
I come in to save them.
So that's it in a nutshell.
(02:41):
Uh, I live in New Hampshire,which I feel like that just
pretty much tells you everythingyou need to know about my
personality.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I don't even know what that means.
I'm gonna have to ask ChatGPT,Google that.
Tell me, tell me about peoplewho live in New Hampshire.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
No, I think everybody okay, the stereotype
is that in the northern stateson the east coast, we tend to be
very quick, talk fast, thinkfast, move fast, uh, a little
sarcastic maybe at times.
And but you get in somebody'scircle and you are like in for a
lifetime.
So okay, that tracks actually.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Yeah, that's good.
Those are good things, those areall good things.
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Yeah, it sounds exactly like you.
I can't even remember actuallyhow we met, but I feel like it's
been years and you're like oneof my favorite people that I've
never met in real life.
I wonder how we met.
I'm gonna think about thislater, Melissa.
Thank you.
I know you're just one of thosepeople that's always been
around.
I don't know where you camefrom, but I'm glad you're here.
(03:41):
KJ, tell everybody a little bitabout you and what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Hi, I'm KJ Blattenbauer.
I am a public relations pro withalmost 30 years of experience in
PR.
I've worked in big and smallagencies, corporate, not
corporate, nonprofits, crisiscommunications, celebrity in
Hollywood, athletes, all of it.
But I've had my own PR agencyfor the last 14 years, and I'm
(04:06):
also an author.
I have a new book that's outrecently called Pitchworthy.
But I love telling peoplestories.
And I think that so many smallbusiness owners, especially
female founders, have justamazing stories to tell.
And I think that publicrelations is the best way for
them to do it.
One, because it's free, but alsobecause it's just a great way to
share what you're doing, whetherit's a business, a brand, a
(04:28):
service, or a product with theworld.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
You're obviously great at PR because when you
came on this call, I asked thetwo of you if you knew each
other.
And Emily was like, no, but Ifeel like I've seen you
somewhere.
I'm like, you have, becauseshe's all over the place.
Success.
It's working.
It's working.
I love it.
Okay, so let's talk a little bitabout your specific awards.
I know that speaking is not yoursole focus, KJ.
(04:52):
And I know podcast hosting isnot your sole focus, Emily, but
I want to talk specificallyabout those things today, just
because that is what the awardsthat you won are.
And they they have a significantpart to play in what each of you
does in your business as welland what you help people with.
So I want to start with you,Emily.
What do you think has been yourbiggest lesson that you've
(05:15):
learned as a podcast host?
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
Oh, okay, this is fun.
So as a, I would say as a host,it's twofold.
Um, you you said biggest, butI'm gonna give you kind of like
two.
One is that I started to learnto follow my curiosity a whole
lot more.
And like the things that when Ifind myself really, really
interested and passionate andexcited about a topic, it can't
(05:38):
help but come through in how Ishare it.
So that's number one for anybodystarting a podcast.
Like you're not gonna be able tosustain it on if you're not
interested.
I will say that.
Um, and the other thing Ilearned, and I learned this
pretty quick, and I learned itby listening back to a lot of my
interviews.
So I used to have aninterview-only podcast or
(05:59):
interview primarily podcast, andI listened to those after I
would record them to like, youknow, check for edits and things
like that.
I learned how not to interview.
And that was like basically Ihad a list of questions printed
out, and I would just boom,boom, boom, boom, boom through
all the questions.
And when my guest responded,rather than like having a
(06:19):
conversation with them, youknow, rather than making it a
natural flowing thing, I wouldjust be like, oh, I love that.
And then I would just move on tothe next question.
So I learned really quickly,number one, the power of like
really listening back to yourinterviews because it teaches
you so much about your own.
You can do it solos too, butjust teaches you a lot about the
things that you, the bad habitsyou have and the good habits you
(06:42):
have.
Um, and I learned to make itmore conversational and natural.
And it's so much more fun.
It's like nobody wants to justsit there like they're in the
hot seat the whole time.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:54):
That's probably those lessons are true for
speaking as well, right?
KJ?
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Oh, a hundred a hundred percent.
I think you have to be so manypeople, I think, go up on stage
and they have a script andthey're only reading their
script and they're not gonnasway from their script.
But if you're literally notreading the room, if the
audience is engaged, what theirbody language is, if you're
hitting, if your timing isright, all of those things, you
are going to never be asked backand you're gonna have a horrible
(07:19):
time.
And like you can feel it when acrowd is not engaged whatsoever.
I spoke earlier this year and Ihad a whole speech prepared.
I was ready to go.
I was like, knock this one outof the park.
It's fine, you know, the great,on to the next thing.
And I got up on stage and Ilooked at everyone and they
looked just literally like eyesglassed over from the last
speaker, like they were ready toall walk out of the room.
(07:41):
And I just set my speech downand I said, I know you guys have
spent like two really long days,and I want you to get something
actual.
And I threw my speech out thewindow right then and there.
And I just started asking peoplerandomly, like, hey, what do you
do?
Have you tried public relations?
What if you try this, this, orthis tomorrow?
And I think I ended up goingover like 45 minutes and they
just kept letting me talkbecause people were so excited
(08:02):
to finally find something thatsomeone was going to engage with
on something actionable thatthey could take away.
And I think it's just reallytaking two seconds to listen,
whether it's on a podcast orwhether you're speaking, even in
just conversation or pickingyour your brain call with
someone, what are they trulysaying?
I don't think we do enoughlistening and hearing what
people truly want or what theytruly need.
(08:23):
And it's such a disservice toconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I could not I think as a podcasthost, I've realized like how
hard it is to listen activelywhile also thinking of what I'm
going to say next, right?
Because it's not like it is likea regular conversation, but it's
also not like a regularconversation.
And so I'm trying to payattention to you.
I'm trying to like think whatdirection is the best direction
(08:49):
for this to go in, but I'm alsotrying to listen to you at the
same time.
And it's, I mean, podcasthosting is like waitressing,
right?
Like it's not rocket science,but it's also not for everyone.
No, it is not.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
I think as a podcast host, you have a special, an
extra special job to do becausein addition to having the
conversation, you're advocatingalso for your listener.
So you kind of have to puteverything through the mind of
your listener at the same time.
You're kind of like bodydoubling, right?
You're you, but you're alsothem, and making sure that it's
(09:21):
delivering something that theycan really use and implement.
And I think that's hugelyimportant.
And I think advocating for yourlistener is the way that people
end up loving your podcast uhand relating to it and
connecting to it.
Um, but it is a big job.
It's hard.
It's it's a skill that youpractice over and over and over
again.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
Yeah.
Very similar with speaking.
And with speaking, I think youhave to think about like
yourself as the audience.
What would you have wanted tohappen if you had been sitting
there listening to people speakfor six hours?
And then this woman got up onstage.
Like, did you want to hear hermemorized speech?
Or, you know, being able to putyourself.
(10:01):
I always try to think when I'minterviewing somebody, like, if
I were listening to thispodcast, that's the thing that
drives me nuts.
Is I listen to a podcast and theguest says something and I'm
like, yeah, but how do you dothat?
Or like, what would that looklike?
Or what would the first step be,or whatever.
I'm like, ask her the question.
And then they're like, Emily101.
They're like, oh, I love that.
Anywho, and very true withspeaking too, right?
(10:24):
Like you have to think aboutwhat is it that people who are
listening to this really want tohear.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think in every facet of
it, we all learned it inkindergarten, right?
It's the basic lesson.
You treat other people how youwant to be treated, right?
If I'm going to be on a stage, Iwant to, what do I, what would I
want to hear if I was anaudience member?
I took a huge break between mylast speaking gig and when I
started speaking again in 2025.
(10:49):
I probably took two or threeyears off.
I just did not want to be on astage.
But in that time I studied,okay, when I'm going to other
events, what are people speakingabout?
How does it make me feel?
Is this really what relevant?
When I leave somewhere and itmakes me feel like this was a
waste of my time.
Why do I feel that way?
Because I never want someone toleave somewhere where I'm
speaking or an event I'm at orI'm hosting, heaven forbid, and
(11:10):
feel like it was a waste oftheir time or worse, a waste of
their money.
Because that's, you know, whensomeone commits dollars or time
to you, that's a big investment.
Whether it is monetarily a biginvestment, even their time,
like that's a gift.
And I think whether it's on apodcast, whether it's on a
stage, you have to put yourselfin that other person's shoes.
I make sure that all of mypublic relations clients are
(11:30):
prepped for that stage and theyhave that ahead of time.
But I also make sure it's anhonor to be invited on someone's
stage.
It's an honor to be asked to beon someone's podcast.
You have to pull your own weightas a guest.
Like you can't let the host, youcan't let the MC do all the
heavy lifting.
You have to show up, you have tobe engaged, you have to be
excited about what you'retalking about, and you have to
provide some value to thelistener, no matter what the
(11:52):
platform is you're on, podcaststage, whatnot, or you're not
going to be asked back.
And I think too many peopleoverlook, they take it for
granted.
Like, oh, I'm just on this stageand tomorrow I want to be on
this bigger stage, or I'm notgetting enough money for this,
so I'm only going to put inminimal effort or things of that
nature.
And I think that's such ahorrible mindset.
It truly is a gift to be able toshare your expertise with
(12:12):
someone on any platform and totreat it any other way, I think
is just sad.
KJ, I genuinely do love that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
And I agree.
And I'm always saying this likea podcast interview is not just
another appointment in yourcalendar.
You know, it's you're reallyshowing up.
And a collaboration, I alwayssay the best collaboration is
one plus one equals way morethan one.
So you're showing up, you'reboth bringing your skill set to
the table, and you're creatingsomething that has literally
never existed before.
(12:42):
That is an incredibleopportunity.
And the person on the otherside, like they've never heard
this exact conversation before.
That's amazing when you reallythink about it like that.
I it gets me all excited.
So um, I just want to echo whatyou say and really the
importance and the gift of it tobe able to collaborate with
other people.
unknown (13:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Right.
Because we've all beensomewhere, right, where you feel
like it's a cattle call.
Like they're on a call with you,it's just another Zoom, or maybe
it's Riverside, or maybe it'sstringent, whatever it is, but
you can tell they don't care.
They're ready for the nextthing.
Maybe they have a dentistappointment, maybe lunch is in
15 minutes.
Like you really know they're notpaying attention to you, and
you're just like, why am I here?
Like you're literally justrattling off things as quick as
(13:21):
you can to get me off here asfast as you can.
What is the point?
And you and on the stage too,you can tell when a speaker's
heart's not in it, or they'vedone it too much, or they're
phoning it in.
Like, there's a reason why youshow up, you're camera ready,
you smile when you talk, you'reengaged.
Like, otherwise, don't botherbecause people can see through
it.
They can see when it'sinauthentic, they can see when
(13:42):
you don't want to be there.
And if you truly don't want tobe there, why are you there?
You're wasting everyone's time.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah.
These are really good pointstoo.
I think even for somebody who'slistening, who's like, I have
zero interest in being on astage and I have zero interest
in being on a podcast, right?
Like I'm gonna ask you in asecond about this, KJ, because I
think when we think about PR, Imean, I think when most people
think about PR, we think I don'tneed PR because I'm not, you
know, Marie Forleo.
(14:10):
Um, but I know that's not true.
And I know that there's a lotmore to PR than just speaking
and podcasting, right?
And I think everything that bothof you are saying is relevant,
whether you are sending an emailto your email list, you are
posting something on socialmedia, you're writing a book,
you're doing a guest blog postsomewhere, right?
(14:32):
Like we have such a tendency,and I don't know if this is an
entrepreneur thing, if this is awoman thing, if this is just a
human thing, to like nothing isenough, right?
Like only five people read myemail.
Only 10 people clicked on thatlink.
Only 50 people downloaded mypodcast episode.
But when you really stop andthink about it, you're like,
(14:52):
okay, that's like you thinkabout how many emails we get in
a day.
And there were five people outthere who thought whatever you
had to say was important enoughto actually read.
There were 50 people out therewho thought, like, they took 30
minutes of their really busy dayto listen to your podcast
because they thought what youhad to say was important enough.
(15:12):
And I don't think the value ofthat, whether it's a social
media post or you speaking onstage for an hour really can be
understated.
SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
No, I think, and I think you're right, because if
you look, if you flip the termsof it, so many people are
worried about the vanity metricof things.
Like, how many downloads do Ihave?
How many likes did this postget?
How many views of my real Ben?
Like how many people are on myemail list?
If there were five peoplefollowing me on the street right
now, I'd be a little nervous.
If there were 50, I'd be headingto a police station.
Like you have to, you know, ifthere's 250 people on your email
(15:44):
list, that's more than enoughpeople to fill a movie theater.
Like you have to put it intoperspective, right?
It's definitely quality overquantity to an extent across
everything, right?
Like I have a huge Instagramfollowing.
I can tell you a majority ofthose people, yeah, they care
about the PR stuff.
They're, you know, they'reengaging, they're wonderful.
A lot of them, they just carewhat boots I'm wearing that day
(16:07):
or my dogs.
I have more requests for what mydogs are doing that I barely
show than anything else.
And so I think it's all justnumbers are relative.
Show up, provide quality, butyou have to show up where your
people are, where your audienceis, and you have to keep
engaging them and providing themwhat they need.
But you also have to look at itfrom the lens of okay, today is
(16:28):
one person, tomorrow might befive people, a month from now it
might be 10.
And if 10 people are buying your$1,000 service, that's amazing.
That's a great month for you.
If 10 people are following youon the street, like you be
checking your shoulder, youknow, like it's just it's all a
mindset shift.
And I think social media hasspoiled us in so many great
(16:49):
ways, but it also has kind ofruined us in a few.
And I think everyone needs tojust take a step back and a
breath and realize hey,community shows up in a variety
of different ways.
And sometimes it's not in growthnumbers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
I did a post on this just today because I'm I I think
when we decide to show upbecause of numbers, like when
there is a vanity metricattached, we show up in a
different way.
We show up like pandering to thealgorithm or pandering to what
we think is gonna get moreeyeballs or more likes, or we're
clickbaity, right?
Or using trying to find theseperfect little taglines that
(17:24):
capture people's attention.
When for me, what is moreimportant, it's not that
somebody's looking at somethingquick for five seconds because
it's super snappy.
It's that somebody is takingtime to like really read the
depth of what I'm writing.
And I'm not gonna show, Idecided it today.
I'm like, I'm not doing thatthis year.
Like, I I maybe it'll decreasemy numbers and how many people
(17:45):
see things, but I want to showup in a way where I am providing
the depth or speaking the depththat I want to, and I can't do
that.
Like, sorry, but we most of usare too nuanced to to be, you
know, 10, 10 words or less in alittle social media caption.
So show up as that, you know.
And if you're if you'repandering to these numbers, it's
(18:06):
really, really hard to be whoyou actually are.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Right.
Yeah, right.
And I think I think part of thattoo is it's free, right?
Like you, if with the vanitymattress of things, you feel
tied to something.
I have to act this way, I haveto post this way, I have to post
this many times, I have to postby this time.
It's all this pressure.
I took two years off of socialmedia, didn't post one time, and
it didn't hurt my business atall.
It didn't hurt my appearances,it didn't hurt any of the media
(18:31):
coming my way, it didn't hurt myclients whatsoever.
But what it did taught me, teachme is that I don't need to play
the game.
I post now when I want to post,what I want to post, how I want
to post it, because I think it'sfunny and I reshare things that
I like, and it's kind of broughtjoy back to the platform for me.
But it's also taught me thatokay, sometimes when I see the
(18:51):
vanity metrics creeping in, Ican see myself pulled to
perform, kind of like a circusmonkey.
And I'm like, no, well, this iswhere we take a step back.
It has to be fun, it has tomatter to me.
And outside of that, it's justnoise that I don't need for my
business or my goals.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
Yeah, that's exactly why I'm so obsessed with threads
right now.
I don't know why I say right nowbecause I've been talking about
how obsessed I am with threadsfor a while now, but I just like
that feels like such a spacewhere you can just like say what
you want to say.
And I never think about like, Ithink it's probably because you
don't have to have a graphic,you don't have to have a video,
it doesn't have to be long.
You can just be like, here'ssomething funny, I thought in
(19:30):
one sentence.
And you made me think of this,KJ, because I did early on when
I was like, I'm gonna usethreads for my business.
I'm gonna be really intentionaland serious about this.
And so I had someone who runs athreads course, a very popular
threads course, do an audit ofmy threads profile.
And so she went through it andwas like, here's what's working,
here's what's not working.
The first thing she said whenshe sent me the audit was, I
(19:53):
looked at your threads profilefor 10 minutes and I can't even
tell that you have a business orwhat your business is.
And I was like, Good.
Like this is why I like threads,right?
Like, I'm just gonna do what Iwant to do over here.
And maybe I'm gonna get aclient, maybe I'm not, but I'm
gonna be me and I'm gonna dowhat I want to do.
And I think that that is what isresonating from reading the
(20:16):
things that people submittedwhen they nominated each of you.
That is what is resonating withpeople, right?
It's not like Emily is perfect,all of her shows are perfectly
scripted.
She never makes a mistake, shelike never tells a joke that's
not funny.
This is why Emily should win,right?
It's like people love youbecause you are you, because you
(20:37):
are real, because you'reauthentic.
And same with you, KJ.
It's not like she's the mostpolished speaker we've ever seen
in our whole life, andeverything is executed
perfectly.
It's like they talk about howyour confidence is contagious,
and the way that you tell astory feels like, you know,
they're sitting down listeningto somebody tell a story that's
never been told before, and it'sthe most interesting story
(20:59):
they've ever heard.
And that really is whatresonates with people so much
more than like Emily has themost downloads.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
But wait, did somebody really say that one of
my jokes wasn't funny?
Because I can't handle that kindof criticism.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
She goes right to the negative.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
That's that's very tell me who told me the most
tell me who said all my jokesare not funny.
No one, no one would ever saythat.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
I can tell already that all your jokes are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
No doubt.
No doubt.
Um, okay, so gosh, I feel like Icould talk to you guys forever.
Where do I want to go with this?
KJ, I want to circle back tosomething I said earlier about
PR because I know that's yourjam, and speaking is a big part
of that.
Tell us a little bit for peoplewho are listening to this, like
I said, who are like, I wouldrather do just about anything
(21:51):
than get up on a stage and speakin front of people.
Is PR still relevant to them andhow?
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Oh, I think PR is more relevant than ever.
PR isn't about speaking onstages.
You can do a million thingsbefore you speak on stage.
You don't have to speak onstage.
There are a lot of people whosegoal is to speak on stage or who
love speaking on stage.
But PR really is teaching peoplethe way to think and talk about
your brand when you're not inthe room.
It's just training people abouthow you want to have your
(22:18):
business service offeringpromoted.
I think so many people wait tillthey're a big deal or they're
six or seven figure earner.
When the truth is, publicrelations is perfect for the
zero-dollar side hustlersstartups to that six or seven
figures.
If you have a business, if youhave a brand, if you have a
brick and mortar, whatever itis, if you have a startup or an
app, people can't fund you.
They can't find you, they can'tbuy from you if they don't know
(22:41):
you exist.
And public relations is free,one, literally free, outside of
maybe buying my book, maybehiring a publicist to get you
started the right way.
It is a free avenue where youborrow other people's channels.
Like I could borrow Emily'spodcast.
I'm speaking on this podcastnow, and a whole new audience is
learning about my expertise, myofferings.
That I have a book, hint I havea book, you know, like those
(23:02):
sorts of things are what PRdoes.
It gives you a media's crediblethird-party seal of approval
that vets you as an expert.
And it helps you close sales andget customers faster than
anything else could.
Plus, also, it is free.
It's free.
Why would you not do a freething?
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's awesome.
I love that.
Okay.
Oh, I just quoted Emily.
I love that.
Okay, on to the next thing on myscript and check.
Um I'm gonna wrap up here in aminute, but before I do that, I
want to ask each of you aquestion.
So, Emily, I'm gonna start withyou.
What is one piece of advice thatyou would give to someone who is
(23:43):
just starting out withpodcasting or thinking about
starting a podcast or hasalready done it?
What what what's something thatyou wish that you knew when you
were getting started?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
Okay, if you're just in the thinking about starting a
podcast stage, I would say sitdown or stand up at your
standing desk, whatever youwant, and list out like 50
episode ideas.
Like, I'm not even kidding aboutthat number.
You're probably like, that's waymore than I need to think about
right now.
It is, and it will keep yougoing when that inspiration well
(24:18):
runs dry.
I have like a hundred of them,and new ones are flooding in all
the time.
If you can't come up with 50, Idon't think that you're going to
be able to survive the long gameof podcasting.
And that's okay.
I mean, you know, there'sdefinitely uh podcasts that do
it just for a little bit.
They do limited series andthings like that.
That is totally fine.
If you want one that is likegoing to be ongoing, I would
(24:41):
challenge yourself to come upwith those 50 topics.
If you've already got anestablished podcast, my biggest
hands-down tip is it doesn't, Imean, whether you're speaking or
podcasting, guesting or hosting,speak like you are speaking to
just one person in the audience.
When I'm a host, I like to sitdown and I actually envision I
(25:02):
am doing this episode forMelissa.
I am doing this episode forChristy, I'm doing this episode
for Amy.
Like I think about that person,maybe something that they've
recently told me about thatthey're struggling with, and I
just talk to them the entiretime.
So that's my biggest piece ofadvice.
People can feel it on the otherside.
The specific is universal, asthey say in the writing world.
(25:23):
It really does help to make likethat content you're sharing
very, very human and very, veryrelatable.
The thing I see counter to thatis like when people are talking
to, you know, they think likethousands of people are
listening and they say, like,hey listeners, hey everyone, it
just feels like a little bitdisconnected.
So I love speaking to just oneperson at a time.
(25:44):
Hey, friend, hey, listener, heyAmy.
I will say her name sometimes.
So, you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
I love that.
That's great advice.
And to piggyback off what yousaid earlier, too, I would say,
whether you are podcast guestingor hosting, force yourself to
listen to yourself.
I know you don't like it.
Nobody likes it.
And this is probably true forspeaking too, right?
Like I, when I was gettingpreparing to speak on the
biggest stage I'd ever spokenon, I recorded my speech like on
(26:14):
a voice memo and I listened toit over and over and over and
over again.
And it was cringy every singletime.
But it sure was better when Idid it on stage than it was that
first time I did it on therecording, right?
And same with podcasting.
Like I listened to some of the,it's been a while, but listening
to some of the like very firstepisodes I did of my first
(26:35):
podcast, I'm like, what are youdoing?
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
But I didn't know.
I think it's important though,on all aspects.
Like, I challenge every one ofmy clients, every media
interview you do, you have toread it.
You have to watch it, you haveto listen to it.
Because if you're not going to,why do you think anyone else
would want to?
And I'm always shocked when Ilike the Hollywood celebrities
are like, oh, I don't watch myinterviews, I don't read my
press, or I don't watch mymovies that I'm in.
(27:01):
But then how do you not know?
Like, you don't need to watch itfrom like a brutally critical
point of view, right?
Like no one's asking you to be amovie critic about it.
But at the same time, how do younot know where there's areas to
improve?
Or if you're saying like 900times and that's something you
have to rein in, or if you'redoing some weird thing with your
eyes when they're recording youon a camera and you're like, oh,
gotta focus on this.
Or, you know, like I do nervoushair flipping.
(27:23):
I'm sure I've nervously hairflipped my hair a million times
in this.
And so all of those things, ithelps you get better at your
messaging, it helps you be abetter performer, it helps you
be a better guest, but it alsohelps you get better at your
craft and your messaging.
You have to listen.
That's like a once you saidthat, Emily.
I was like, Yeah, that's amazingadvice.
You should always be listeningto yourself.
Always.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Yeah.
My thing was amazing.
I had no idea how many times Isaid amazing until I started
listening to it.
That and I thought I was likedoing a really good job being an
active listener.
So when I would interviewpeople, I would be like, Oh,
mm-hmm.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
And then when I listened to itback, I was like, you are so
(28:05):
distracting.
So now I sit here quietly.
I used to have a little stickynote up on the screen that's
like, here's 10 things you cansay other than amazing.
And that helped also.
It was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
That's a really good idea, actually.
Having little backup phraseswhen you do find yourself
saying, I always say vice versa.
My husband's like, it's viceversa, not vice versa, A.
And you say it all the time.
So yeah, catching yourself andbeing like, here's some
alternative options for you, mydear.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah.
You might need to bust out alittle sticky note there, M.
Um, KJ, how about for you?
Advice that you have for peoplewho are just starting to think
about PR or they're juststarting to think about speaking
on stage, or it's something thatthey really want to do or want
to do more of, what advice wouldyou give them?
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
My advice would be to figure out why.
Why do you really want to be onstage?
Why do you think that you needPR?
Like, what is your main endgoal?
For some, it just might be anego thing, like, I want to see
myself on stage.
Like, this is the next logicalstep for me.
And for other people, it's like,this is how I'm going to reach
my people.
So I think if you, whether it'sPR, speaking on stage, whatever
it is you do, know what yourmain goal is.
(29:13):
Because nine times out of 10,how you get to that goal is
finding the audience that helpsyou get there.
And that audience, they mightnot be watching people on
stages.
So then you might be spendingall your time, energy, money on
stages and not seeing any ROIfrom it.
You're like, wait, I'm onstages.
How do people not know who I am?
Why are they not buying mythings?
Well, that's because that's notwhere your people are.
But if you're true on your goaland you found that and you've
(29:35):
been honest about who yourtarget audience is, everything
from there falls in place,whether you just need to be on
podcasts, whether you just needto be in print, whether you just
need to be online, or whetheryou truly do need to be on those
stages.
I think it's important for us,especially as female founders,
we can do anything all on aTuesday, right?
Like millions and millions ofthings great at multitasking,
(29:56):
but then we're tired and we'reburnt out and we can't be our
best selves.
And so I think it's being veryclear like, here's who I serve
and what I really want to do.
Here's my end goal.
How do I serve those people?
And I think if you work your waybackwards, you're gonna easily
find the solution.
Here's where I need to invest mytime.
Here's truly where I need to be.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
That's brilliant.
Yeah, I love the idea ofthinking about why is that what
you want to do?
And that's that's honestly sucha good question for pretty much
anything in business, right?
That's that's the thing thatstops us from like anytime
someone asks me that question,I'm like, wait, why do I?
Like, is it because I saw Susieand Jane and they're both doing
it?
And so then I was like, well, Ineed to do that too.
(30:36):
Or is it because like I justfeel like that's where everybody
is, that's the next thing to do,that's what everybody else is
doing, or is there like a reallegitimate logical reason that I
want to do it?
Even if it is just that I wantto see my face on stage.
That's legit.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
That's legit.
That's really good advice.
Truly, like the ego is a great,is a great motivator, right?
It can get you to do so manythings.
It can also get you to do somany things that don't move the
needle or help you reach yourgoals.
And I think as long as you'rehonest with yourself, look, I do
at least three things a yearthat are purely only ego-driven,
(31:15):
and there is no ROI, and most ofthe time it's a boondoggle that
costs a ton of money.
I still do them to satisfy thatlittle itch.
And then I go back to thepractical things.
So I think I think it's justbeing well aware of who you are,
who you serve, and what youtruly want to do.
Then you can play with the funthings that are just for your
ego.
Yeah, absolutely.
(31:36):
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
Okay, so before we wrap up, Emily, I would love for
you to share.
Um, if anybody's listening tothis podcast and they want to
know more about you, they wantto know more about you do what
you do.
Your copywriting is amazing.
I've worked with you severaltimes on several things.
Um, I will definitely put thelink to your podcast in the show
notes.
Um, but where else can peoplefind you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:59):
Thank you.
Um, like KJ, I like to hang outon Instagram mostly.
So my handle on Instagram orwhatever they call it now is
just Emily Aborne, my first andlast name.
That's like where you can findme everywhere.
Um, but if you want to know allthe places that I am, you can go
to my website, emilyaborn.com.
Easiest way to get to yourfavorite platform.
(32:20):
And I would love to have youcome listen to my podcast.
We will have so much fun.
I will give you a personalwelcome.
If you write me a review thathas your name in it, I will give
you a personal hello.
SPEAKER_02 (32:32):
You will be the one person she speaks to in that
episode.
For better or worse.
What about you, KJ?
If people want to connect withyou, they want to learn more
about your um PR services.
Definitely I will put the linkfor your book in the show notes.
But where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
You can find me at hearsaypr.com.
That's h-e-a-r-sa-y-pr.com, orI'm hanging out on Instagram at
KJ Blattenbauer.
And like you, also KJBlattenbauer on Threads, where I
have no strategy and completelyunhinged, and will probably just
cheer on every bad decision thatyou're making.
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
Lovely.
I love it.
I'm sure I'm following you onthreads.
And if I'm not, I that was agood pitch for me to go do so.
Thank you so much, you guys.
Congratulations again on yourawards.
Those are so awesome.
I hope you feel so proud ofyourselves.
We got so many amazingnominations, so many people
voted, and um, the things thatpeople said about you were just
(33:30):
so beautiful.
So, congratulations.
Thank you so much for the workthat you're doing in the world
and what you are doing forfemale entrepreneurs everywhere.
You are absolutely two of themost powerful women rising that
I know.
And I appreciate you guys comingon the podcast.
Oh, thank you.
Thanks so much for having us.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Thank you for having us.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com