April 13, 2026 • 31 mins
Maybe you don’t need more discipline - you just need a better strategy.
In this episode, Business Strategist Michelle DeNio digs into the messy middle of business growth - that stage after startup but before scale, where revenue plateaus and the tactics that worked before stop delivering.
This is where most entrepreneurs double down on “doing more” and burn out instead of building something sustainable.
And although this conversation centers around ADHD-friendly strategies, it's actually for anyone who has struggled to stay consistent, follow through on plans, or make traditional business strategies actually work in real life.
It's usually not because they lack discipline, but because they’re trying to force strategies that don’t align with how they actually operate.
Michelle shares a more effective approach.
One that works with your brain instead of against it.
In this episode, we cover:
• How dopamine, hyperfocus, and demand avoidance impact execution
• Why traditional 90-day plans often fail (and what to use instead)
• The role of data when your brain wants to rely on emotion
• The concept of “visibility seasons” vs. “sales seasons”
• Simple ways to build momentum without overwhelming yourself
You do not need an ADHD diagnosis for this to resonate.
If you’ve ever struggled to stay consistent, follow through, or make someone else’s strategy work, this episode will show you a smarter way to grow.
Links & References:
Come network with us! CLICK HERE to attend your first PWR Connection Network virtual speed networking event at no cost!
Learn more about Michelle DeNio here: www.michelledenioconsulting.com
Follow Michelle on Threads, Facebook or LinkedIn
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist and the founder of Powerful Women Rising - a business growth ecosystem for female entreprenuers who want to create real momentum through real relationships.
Inside the PWR Connect Network and the PWR Business Growth Mastermind, Melissa helps women in business get build relationships, increase visibility and get more referrals without pressure, perfection or performative networking.
She's on a mission to change the way women grow their businesses - proving that you can be authentic, values-driven and profitable at the same time.
Melissa lives in Colorado with two dogs (Peyton and Ally), three cats (Giorgio, Karma and Betty) and any number of foster kittens. She hates winter, seafood and feet. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and buying books she'll never read.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Okay, before we jump into the interview, how do I say
your last name correctly?
Denial.
Denial.
Okay, perfect.
I've learned to hit record andthen ask that question because I
will forget in five seconds.
Thank you, ADHD.
Okay.
Good morning, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much, Melissa.
It's been, I love listening toyour podcast.
So it's an honor to be a gueston your show.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, we were talking before westarted recording about this is
just a great example of thepower of networking and getting
to know people and havingdifferent people in your circle.
You have hired people thatyou've heard on my podcast.
You hired my VA, who I recommendall the time.
And I love that somebody justposted on my social media
yesterday I was looking forguests and somebody tagged you
(00:48):
and I was like, oh, already gother.
So I love the the uh greatexamples of how everything that
I'm always talking aboutactually works in real life.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Oh, absolutely.
Always, especially in the onlinespace for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
Yeah.
So before we dive into today'stopic, tell everybody a little
bit about you and about what youdo.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Yeah, so I am a business growth strategist, and
I put that word growth in versusjust business strategist because
I think I really love to focuson the growth stage.
I think a lot of people focus inon the startup stage, and then
next thing you know, everybody'stalking about scaling.
And I think there's so muchpower in the growth stage, and I
(01:27):
don't think people sit in itlong enough for the most part.
So yeah, business growthstrategists and I work with
service-based business owners,ideally that are in like the
three plus, more like five plusyear range.
And they're at that point whererevenue is plateaued, they can't
seem to get past where they arecurrently at.
(01:49):
They're strategies that havealways worked stopped working
and they don't know why.
And they just keep feeling likethey're coming up against this
wall, not from a place of stuck,but just a like, I can't seem to
get past this point if in thatstage of growth, right?
And that's what I mean bygrowth.
Just because they're stuckdoesn't necessarily mean they're
immediately ready for scale.
(02:09):
It just means that like they'vethey've hit that plateau in that
level of growth.
So that's what I focus on.
I'm very heavily rooted in factsover emotions, data,
understanding what's actuallyworking, looking at the
information, the trends.
Um, my favorite saying is theresults that you're looking for
are in the data that you're notlooking at.
(02:30):
So we look at the data, we divedeep, and we build strategy from
that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
I love that.
I love what you said about thein-between space between like
starting a business and scalinga business.
Cause yeah, you're right.
We hear so much about both ofthose things.
And so I think we justautomatically think like, okay,
I started the business, I gotsome customers, now it's time to
scale.
But there definitely is thatmiddle point that is probably
like the most important pointbefore you launch into that
(02:57):
scaling.
So that's awesome.
How does what you do relate toADHD?
Because that's one of the thingsthat we're going to talk about
today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Yeah.
So I think, you know, I'm notformally diagnosed ADHD, but I
don't really feel like I need aformal diagnosis to know that I
check every single box on thelist.
Um, and honestly, where thatkind of came in is at it through
my business journey in workingwith different coaches and
service providers and differentthings, I constantly kept
(03:28):
finding myself saying, like, Idon't understand why these
strategies and these things workfor everybody else, but not for
me.
Like, what is going on?
What am I doing wrong?
And then the more I learned andreally educated myself around my
own ADHD, my own tendencies, myown habits, it became very
obvious that it was not designedto work for the neurodivergent
(03:52):
brain.
And so I really started goingdeep into it and creating what I
had wished I had had.
Um, an un with the understandingthat like what I find is that if
something is created for aneurodivergent brain, it will
work for somebody who isneurotypical, but it's very
rarely the other way around.
Like things that are designedfor neurotypical brains don't
(04:15):
usually work for ADHD brains.
They will work for a while, andbut they will likely come up
against a wall or something.
And that's just natural.
That's just part of it.
And so that was really kind ofwhat happened is I just kind of
found myself continuing to hitthis wall of like, why is this
working for everybody else andnot me?
And then finally realized, like,because it really wasn't
(04:37):
designed to work for me.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Yeah, I resonate with that so much.
I was just talking about thatthis morning on a panel that I
was sitting on.
And the question was, what'ssomething that you see in a lot
of business communities thatgives you the ick?
And I said, I wouldn'tnecessarily say it gives me the
ick, but one of the things thatmakes me crazy is the like one
size fits all advice.
(04:59):
And I have been there, like I'vepaid more money than I want to
say out loud to be in amastermind where it was like, do
this, this is exactly whatworks, everybody do this.
And then either we go andeverybody does it except for me.
I'm like, I don't know why Ididn't do it, I just didn't.
Or we go and I do all of thethings that I'm supposed to do
(05:20):
and it works for everybody else,but it doesn't work for me.
And, you know, I was diagnosedwith ADHD very late in life,
just like a year or two ago.
And it just made so many thingsmake so much sense.
And it was so helpful in knowinglike it's not just a personality
flaw.
I'm not just lazy, I'm not justlike incapable of doing these
(05:42):
things that every other human onthe planet can do because I
don't know, I suck, you know.
So it's it's really it I lovethat you that's one of the
reasons that I wanted to haveyou on the podcast, is because
you talk a lot about likefinding the way that works for
you.
And the way that works for youmight not be the way that works
for everybody else.
And I think that's such animportant point in business.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, especially for the ADHD brain, too, because the
ADHD brain really operates offof dopamine, right?
And we know that.
So the second the dopaminestops, we stop, right?
And that's the problem with someof these, a lot of these
strategies is that they are notdesigned to continue to feed the
dopamine and or we go reallyhard and we get super hyper
(06:27):
focused, but then we crash,right?
And so that's where theseprograms, that's why I say like
neurotypical programs will workfor a while because you get in,
it's a dopamine hit, it'ssomething new, you can get super
hyper-focused on it.
And then all of that kind ofstarts to wear off, and then the
shutdown happens, right?
The demand avoidance kicks inand all of those other pieces
(06:48):
where our brain is just likechasing that next dopamine hit
and really wanting, like, okay,I need something new, I need
something different, and wecan't stick with it.
And that's my biggest thing isbeing able to stick with
something consistently because Idon't feel like I it's just not,
it's just not in me.
(07:08):
I'm not going to.
I thrive with change, I thrivein those ways.
And so I had to create a systemand a program that allowed me to
maintain focus, right?
Because we can't just beswitching what we're doing every
five seconds in our business.
That doesn't work.
So it's like, how can wecontinue to maintain focus while
also giving ourselves these likelittle outs of like, I only have
(07:29):
to do this for this many days,and then I'm I get to do
something different.
And once I figured that out andand found that strategy, then I
was like, everything else kindof fell into place and
everything else starts to click.
And I very rarely now come upagainst that demand avoidance.
I still do, obviously, in justgeneral everyday tasks.
Um, but for the most part, I'mable to maintain, and my clients
(07:52):
who also have struggled foryears and years and years are
able to maintain and stayconsistent with something for
far longer because it isdesigned to be done in these
like short incremental sprints.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Yeah, that's a perfect segue to my first
question because I am, you know,it's one of our favorite ADHD
memes of like, oh, well, it'sthe new year, time to buy 28
planners you're not actuallygonna use.
And I'd have drawers full ofplanners, and I have the wall
calendar, and I bought the easelwith the thing, and then you can
make the list and all the thingsand the sticky notes.
(08:27):
And I I feel like I have apretty good system now that
works for me, but it's been alot of trial and error.
So the first thing I wanted toask you is why do you think that
the traditional businessplanning methods and the
traditional like approaches togrowth don't necessarily work
for entrepreneurs with ADHD andsometimes have the opposite
(08:50):
effect?
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I think a lot of it is because they're designed for
like monotonous, like in a lotof ways.
It's like do this, say, youknow, show up here, do this, and
it's like too long of a time,even if it's 90 days or
quarterly increments, or we'redoing it for the half year, or
everything is just it's toolong.
There's no real stop and pause,and it's just not going to work.
(09:16):
Like that level of longevity andhaving to maintain consistency
for that, for even like I said,a quarterly 90 days, a lot of
times something's gonna happen.
We're gonna have a down day.
Um, the other thing I think thatthe traditional advice follows
is again, is doing thingsrepetitiously and it doesn't
(09:38):
flow in cycles.
Like I said, like with ADHD, alot of times we get that hyper
focus and then we need itdowntime.
Then we get hyper focused and weneed downtime.
And a lot of traditionalbusiness planning and growth
strategies don't factor in thatdowntime.
So I'm working with like aclient right now, and she she's
doing these launches, whichworks for her because she can
(09:59):
get super hyper focused, butthen she crashes hard.
And for a long time, she keptpushing through and pushing
through and pushing, and sheended up in a state of burnout
so bad.
And so now, you know, what we dois we build these cohorts to
where she's doing theselaunches, and then we schedule
in like two weeks of downtimewhere she's not doing anything
new, she's not creating, she'snot just completely taking
(10:22):
everything off her schedule toallow for the crash because the
crash is inevitable.
It's going to happen becauseit's on the flip side of the
hype, the hyper focus.
And so just being able to shiftand like create those spaces
where most traditional advicewould be like launch, then get
right into your launch and thenstart moving, and then you're
(10:43):
thinking about your next launch,and then you're doing this, and
where are you going here?
And okay, you've got this cohortgoing now.
What?
And it's all this like constantstate of doing and creating, and
it just doesn't allow for any ofthat downtime, that reset, that
refocus that so many people withADHD need.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think even people whodon't have ADHD, we are always
as business owners, we arealways looking at like what's
the next thing, right?
Like, we don't stop tocelebrate, we don't stop to
rest, we don't stop foranything.
We're like, did that, now what'sthe next thing?
Did that, now what's the nextthing?
What's the next thing?
And that's something I've had toget so much better at is giving
(11:21):
myself that time to like, it'sokay that you're taking a nap
when there's 25,000 things thatneed to be done, right?
It's okay that you are sittingin the hot tub when your house
is a mess and your dogs need tobe walked.
Like getting better at givingyourself that space to take
those breaks and understandingthat, like the more you do that,
(11:42):
you see how it pays off in thelong run.
It doesn't pay off to keep doingthe next thing, the next thing,
the next thing.
Cause like you said, then youcompletely burn out and it is
the opposite of helpful.
So what else you touched on it alittle bit, but when it comes to
like an ADHD-friendly approachto business growth and business
(12:02):
planning, what does thatactually look like?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Well, with the framework that I developed, so I
developed a framework called theFocus Visionary, because again,
that was I named it that becauseit's exactly what I my ideal
client, right?
They're visionaries and theylack focus, right?
That's what most ADHD businessowners, or just in general,
business owners are.
So inside of that framework,really the precipice of it is
(12:25):
focused in on one, having like aNorth Star, which to me is
different than setting goals.
It's not necessarily sayingabout like, I'm gonna hit six
figures in revenue in twomonths, or you know, it's not
these like really hard setgoals, but they're just more of
a North Star, like a guidinglight that is like, this is what
(12:45):
I'm working towards, but there'sno how behind it, right?
It's just a vision of whichright in itself creates the
space and the creativity for theADHD brain of like, I know I'm
focused towards this, but I haveall of this creative freedom and
how that is achieved.
So that's number one is justmaking sure that we look at goal
(13:07):
setting and vision planningdifferently, and it's not
concrete for the most part,depending on how people approach
it.
But anyways, just having thatlike North Star.
And then from that, what I havefound works the best and what I
created is we do all of ourbusiness planning in 60-day
increments versus quarterly or90 days or anything of that
(13:29):
sort, because 60 days to me islike that sweet spot of 30 days
is not a long enough time tocollect any real data to say
whether or not something isworking or to know whether or
not our strategy is actuallyexecuting well.
But 90 days can feel like aneternity.
So 60 days is kind of that sweetspot of really looking at it and
saying, okay, we've only got todo this one thing for 60 days.
(13:51):
And I also kind of teach peopleto break it into seasons.
So, like, are we in a salesseason?
Are we in a visibility season?
Are we in an operations season?
So again, the brain is notoverloaded.
We know exactly what we'reworking on.
It's like, okay, I'm in avisibility season.
My goal is to increase my emaillist, right?
Like the intention, it's veryit's intentional, not so much
(14:13):
again, set with hard setmilestones.
And then, but it's only for 60days, right?
Because people get sick of it.
And so then it's like at the endof 60 days, we have that space,
that time to evaluate, look atit, and really like see what
worked, what really went wellduring that 60 days, what
didn't, and do I get to moveinto a different season now?
(14:34):
Right.
So if you don't love selling,then you can come back into
visibility season.
If people love to be in aselling season, but yet their
pipeline is dry, it's like,okay, let's move into visibility
season.
And what does that look like?
So it really is like thatfreedom and flexibility of like,
you only have to do it for 60days.
I remember when I did, I wasdoing like one of these beach
(14:56):
body workouts a long time ago,P90X.
And I just remember one of them,he was like, you can do anything
for two minutes.
And I was like, Yeah, right.
You know, it's like a wall setfor two minutes or something
like that.
And that's kind of the way I sayit to my clients now, is like,
you can do anything for 60 days,because that the reality of it
is most business owners are notworking full time, they're
working 20, 30 hours a week.
So, and maybe four days a week,some are working a full five
(15:19):
days, but even at that, fivedays times, you know, out of a
60-day period is really onlywhat 40 days for the most part,
it's 30 days, right?
So it's not that long of aperiod of time.
We can convince our brains to dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think breaking down thingsinto those smaller chunks has
been hugely helpful for mebecause I've always been
somebody who wanted to setgoals.
Like it always seems like a goodidea to have annual goals and
then quarterly goals.
And like that always seems likea good idea.
But even when I set goals, thenyou ask me in February, like,
what are your goals for theyear?
I'm like, I don't know.
(15:57):
But I'm sure they were reallygood, whatever they were.
So yeah, I breaking those downinto like now, I break it into
quarterly goals, and then I lookat the quarterly goals and I
see, like, okay, so if this ismy goal for the end of the three
months, what do I need to do inJanuary, February, and March?
And then I'm able to break itdown into like weeks and days
and that kind of stuff.
And that has been hugely helpfulfor me.
(16:18):
So I love that.
That's really good advice.
How do we?
I feel like one of the thingsthat I really struggle with is
momentum.
And part of that is because likeI love to procrastinate.
And part of the reason I love toprocrastinate is I get so much
done at the last minute.
Like when I was in high school,my dad would joke, like, if it
(16:39):
wasn't for the last minute,you'd never get anything done.
Ha ha ha.
But that's like actually true.
Like I have a week this weekwhere I know like next week is
gonna be crazy, crazy.
Like my calendar is packed.
And so this week I'm like, Ishould really do all of the
things.
I'm telling you right now, Iwon't do anything this week.
And I will do so many thingsnext week, which makes zero
(17:02):
sense.
So, how do we kind of balance?
Do we just give in to this likestart and stop and start and
stop that our brain wants to do?
Or is there something we can doto create more consistent
momentum?
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
Yeah, so I'm very similar in the procrastination.
Like I am a last minute Linda,100% 90.
I mean, I send a Sunday morningbrew newsletter email every
single Sunday, and I've done itfor two years, and 90% of the
time I write it Saturday at fiveo'clock at night.
Like it in literally, or I'llwrite it because we have planned
Saturday night, and I'm like, ohshit, I didn't write my
(17:38):
newsletter, right?
And so it's always, but italways works.
And it, and I actually juststopped forcing myself to try to
feel like I needed to get itdone sooner, unless for some
reason, like I'm not gonna beavailable.
So, yes, to an extent, I dothink like if that is how you
work the best, then absolutely Ithink again, we have to do what
works best for us, and trying tochange that is not necessarily
(18:02):
going to be any more productivebecause now our brain has to
process this information andlike really think about it,
where when we know if we justwait to the last minute, like we
can get that hyper focus.
That's where that ADHD, likehyper focus specificity comes
in.
But what I do try to do formyself is again looking at my
(18:23):
overarching 60-day plan andsimplifying it.
So it's like I'm not focused onall the things.
I'm if I'm focused onvisibility, like that is my
primary goal.
And I'm not trying to add allthese 8,000 other things into
the mix, that in itself helpswith momentum to really just
simplify the focus of what arewe actually doing right now.
Um, but then what I try to do isset like I'll look at my week
(18:48):
and go, okay, what is actuallyrealistic that I'm going to get
done this week?
And I don't overload it.
So if that means that my goal isto show up on threads for 30
minutes every single day, that'sthe extent of like what I do.
And I don't add more to my listbecause that's just gonna add
more friction.
It's gonna create more demandavoidance, it's gonna create
(19:09):
more like all of this.
Just I don't want to do this.
And so it doesn't get doneanyways.
Where when you give yourself thepermission of like, well, all
you've got to really get donetoday is to show up and engage
on threads for 30 minutes, thenthat becomes it's just enough to
start the momentum of like, oh,I did that, that's done.
I'm I can do this.
What else can I get done?
What else can I get done?
Right.
(19:29):
To me, it starts that likemomentum cycle of, oh, well, I'm
here, I might as well get thisdone.
Oh, I'm here, I might as wellget this done.
So it's like tricking your braininto saying, like, you only have
to do this, this one thing.
And then once you're there, it'slike, oh, it's okay.
I remember um I was listening toa podcast episode a while back
(19:50):
by Jenna Kutcher, and she wastalking about working out.
And the way she tricked herbrain into it was like, I she
gave herself permission thatafter 10 minutes, if she was
bored or hated it, she couldwalk away.
Right.
That's exactly what I was gonnasay.
She never, yeah, like she neverwalked away from it because by
that point, 10 minutes in, shewas she was into it and she
didn't want to walk away.
(20:11):
And I kind of treat when I heardthat, I was like, well, that's
exactly how I treat my businesstask too, of like, you only have
to do this one thing.
So I have like a calendar thatI'll pull up and I just put like
one thing per day on it.
And then I usually like it's Ican bang things out because I'm
here, I'm sitting at my desk.
The getting to the desk andgetting started is the hardest
part.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think I've heard that saidabout like just start
exercising.
You only have to do 10 minutesat the end of 10 minutes.
If you want to stop, then stop.
Sometimes for me, it's like allyou have to do is get dressed.
Like, all you have to do is puton the sports bra and the tennis
shoes and like just get dressed.
And like that's with exercise.
(20:52):
But even with like work andstuff, I am gonna have such a
different outcome.
Like I've started putting myshoes on, which sounds so silly,
but like I'm gonna have such adifferent outcome.
Even if I have nothing, like noZooms, I'm not leaving the
house, nothing's happening.
If I get dressed and put myshoes on, I'm gonna be so much
more productive than if I justlike wobble down here in my
pajamas and my slippers and liketry to work that day.
(21:14):
So I think any kind of hackslike that that you can find that
just like get you going, that'sthat's usually the thing, right?
It's like we just need to getgoing, then we're fine.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's so funny because I'mthe polar opposite.
And this is why I say likeeverybody has to do what works
for them.
Like if I have a day where Ineed to like be in my admin,
like behind the scenes, likejust get work done.
I am far better if I justliterally roll out of bed and
just get to my desk and like,don't worry about doing my hair,
don't worry about doing becauseto me, those are all things that
just trigger my ADHD of like,oh, I'm standing here in the
(21:47):
bathroom.
Wait, oh, I should have donelaundry.
Why don't I go through this loadof laundry?
And then, you know, it justtriggers all of these like a
million other steps.
Where if it's just like, just gosit down and you're still in
your pajamas, then I get so muchmore done.
But again, like That's what Imean by like everybody has to
find their own strategy.
And I always say every singlestrategy works, but they're not
(22:08):
all going to work for you.
And that is what is mostimportant to me, whether you are
neurotypical or neurodivergent,it doesn't matter.
Is that you have got to find thestrategy for growth that works
for you.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree.
That's so good.
That's a great place to endthings too.
Cause that is, I mean, it's whatI'm saying all the time when it
comes to networking.
And I think it happens so manyother places, right?
Where it comes to like socialmedia or how we're marketing or
whatever it is, it's like somuch of the burnout and the
resistance comes from trying todo it a way that we don't want
(22:46):
to do it.
Like, I there have been so manytimes that people have come to
the powerful women risingbusiness growth mastermind calls
and they say, like, I know Ineed to be on LinkedIn.
And so I just want to know like,what are your best strategies
for LinkedIn?
And instead of giving them thebest strategies for LinkedIn,
the women in the community arelike, Why do you think you need
to be on LinkedIn?
You don't want to be onLinkedIn.
(23:07):
You always talk about how muchyou hate LinkedIn.
Like by the end of the call,there's no best strategies for
LinkedIn.
It's you realizing, like, Iactually don't need to be on
LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
I have that conversation with mymaster, my mastermind clients
all the time too.
They'll say, like, I think Ineed to start this, or I think I
want to create a membership.
And I'm like, but wait a second.
Like, do you want to be on allthe time?
Do you want to be creatingcontent all the time?
Do you want to be on this hand?
Like, it sounds good in theory,but here's what I know about you
and where you're trying to go.
And this is why this isn't gonnaalign with that.
(23:38):
You still want to do that?
Oh, yeah, no.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah.
If you start thinking about itand you start talking about it,
and the more you think about itand talk about it, the more
excited you get, that's a goodsign.
If you start thinking andtalking about it, and the more
you start thinking and talkingabout it, the more you're like,
oh my God, this sounds terrible.
But so and so said I should doit.
So I guess I should do it.
That's your sign that you are onsomeone else's path, not your
own.
(24:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
If people want to learn moreabout you, they want to know
more about what you do, abouthow to work with you, what is
the best way for them to connectwith you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Um, well, I have a podcast.
It's called The Real Truth AboutBusiness.
So I have like 300 and somethingepisodes there.
That is definitely my bestcontent.
If you really want to learn moreabout me and the way my brain
thinks, go listen to that.
That's 100% the way to do it.
Um, but also you can visit mywebsite, Michelle Denial
Consulting.com, or connect withme on social.
I am a threads girl.
(24:31):
I love it over there on Threads.
Um, I'm on all of the socialplatforms, but the one I hang
out on and engage with the mostis definitely Threads.
And then, like I mentioned alittle bit earlier in the
episode, I do have a Sundaymorning brew email newsletter
that I send out every Sunday.
Um, and I just love that.
Like that is to me the placewhere I really truly connect
(24:52):
with my audience more on apersonal level, um, always tied
into business, but I thinkthere's human to human
connection there.
And I I just love that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
So that's awesome.
I will put the links for all ofthose in the show notes so
people can sign up for yournewsletter, check out your
podcast, and find you onThreads.
Threads is my my um ADHD friend.
I get really into threads forlike weeks and weeks and weeks,
and then I disappear fromthreads for weeks and weeks and
weeks.
(25:21):
I'm currently in a disappear,but I'll be back.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Yeah, it's fun.
Threads definitely uh punishesthe disappearance, no doubt
about that.
But you know what?
It's it to me, it's the easiestlow lift, and I think that's why
I love it so much.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I love it.
Okay, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
This has been really, reallyhelpful.
I love your outlook on things.
I love what you're doing.
I can see how what you do withclients could be so, so helpful
in getting things going andgetting things moving,
especially when you're at thatpoint where you're like, okay, I
have a general idea of what'sgoing on.
I'm just not really sure likewhere to go from here.
(25:56):
So I hope our listeners willreach out to you and thank you
again.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Okay, before we jump into the interview, how do I say
your last name correctly?
Denial.
Denial.
Okay, perfect.
I've learned to hit record andthen ask that question because I
will forget in five seconds.
Thank you, ADHD.
Okay.
Good morning, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much, Melissa.
It's been, I love listening toyour podcast.
So it's an honor to be a gueston your show.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, we were talking before westarted recording about this is
just a great example of thepower of networking and getting
to know people and havingdifferent people in your circle.
You have hired people thatyou've heard on my podcast.
You hired my VA, who I recommendall the time.
And I love that somebody justposted on my social media
yesterday I was looking forguests and somebody tagged you
(00:48):
and I was like, oh, already gother.
So I love the the uh greatexamples of how everything that
I'm always talking aboutactually works in real life.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Oh, absolutely.
Always, especially in the onlinespace for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
Yeah.
So before we dive into today'stopic, tell everybody a little
bit about you and about what youdo.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Yeah, so I am a business growth strategist, and
I put that word growth in versusjust business strategist because
I think I really love to focuson the growth stage.
I think a lot of people focus inon the startup stage, and then
next thing you know, everybody'stalking about scaling.
And I think there's so muchpower in the growth stage, and I
(01:27):
don't think people sit in itlong enough for the most part.
So yeah, business growthstrategists and I work with
service-based business owners,ideally that are in like the
three plus, more like five plusyear range.
And they're at that point whererevenue is plateaued, they can't
seem to get past where they arecurrently at.
(01:49):
They're strategies that havealways worked stopped working
and they don't know why.
And they just keep feeling likethey're coming up against this
wall, not from a place of stuck,but just a like, I can't seem to
get past this point if in thatstage of growth, right?
And that's what I mean bygrowth.
Just because they're stuckdoesn't necessarily mean they're
immediately ready for scale.
(02:09):
It just means that like they'vethey've hit that plateau in that
level of growth.
So that's what I focus on.
I'm very heavily rooted in factsover emotions, data,
understanding what's actuallyworking, looking at the
information, the trends.
Um, my favorite saying is theresults that you're looking for
are in the data that you're notlooking at.
(02:30):
So we look at the data, we divedeep, and we build strategy from
that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
I love that.
I love what you said about thein-between space between like
starting a business and scalinga business.
Cause yeah, you're right.
We hear so much about both ofthose things.
And so I think we justautomatically think like, okay,
I started the business, I gotsome customers, now it's time to
scale.
But there definitely is thatmiddle point that is probably
like the most important pointbefore you launch into that
(02:57):
scaling.
So that's awesome.
How does what you do relate toADHD?
Because that's one of the thingsthat we're going to talk about
today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Yeah.
So I think, you know, I'm notformally diagnosed ADHD, but I
don't really feel like I need aformal diagnosis to know that I
check every single box on thelist.
Um, and honestly, where thatkind of came in is at it through
my business journey in workingwith different coaches and
service providers and differentthings, I constantly kept
(03:28):
finding myself saying, like, Idon't understand why these
strategies and these things workfor everybody else, but not for
me.
Like, what is going on?
What am I doing wrong?
And then the more I learned andreally educated myself around my
own ADHD, my own tendencies, myown habits, it became very
obvious that it was not designedto work for the neurodivergent
(03:52):
brain.
And so I really started goingdeep into it and creating what I
had wished I had had.
Um, an un with the understandingthat like what I find is that if
something is created for aneurodivergent brain, it will
work for somebody who isneurotypical, but it's very
rarely the other way around.
Like things that are designedfor neurotypical brains don't
(04:15):
usually work for ADHD brains.
They will work for a while, andbut they will likely come up
against a wall or something.
And that's just natural.
That's just part of it.
And so that was really kind ofwhat happened is I just kind of
found myself continuing to hitthis wall of like, why is this
working for everybody else andnot me?
And then finally realized, like,because it really wasn't
(04:37):
designed to work for me.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Yeah, I resonate with that so much.
I was just talking about thatthis morning on a panel that I
was sitting on.
And the question was, what'ssomething that you see in a lot
of business communities thatgives you the ick?
And I said, I wouldn'tnecessarily say it gives me the
ick, but one of the things thatmakes me crazy is the like one
size fits all advice.
(04:59):
And I have been there, like I'vepaid more money than I want to
say out loud to be in amastermind where it was like, do
this, this is exactly whatworks, everybody do this.
And then either we go andeverybody does it except for me.
I'm like, I don't know why Ididn't do it, I just didn't.
Or we go and I do all of thethings that I'm supposed to do
(05:20):
and it works for everybody else,but it doesn't work for me.
And, you know, I was diagnosedwith ADHD very late in life,
just like a year or two ago.
And it just made so many thingsmake so much sense.
And it was so helpful in knowinglike it's not just a personality
flaw.
I'm not just lazy, I'm not justlike incapable of doing these
(05:42):
things that every other human onthe planet can do because I
don't know, I suck, you know.
So it's it's really it I lovethat you that's one of the
reasons that I wanted to haveyou on the podcast, is because
you talk a lot about likefinding the way that works for
you.
And the way that works for youmight not be the way that works
for everybody else.
And I think that's such animportant point in business.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, especially for the ADHD brain, too, because the
ADHD brain really operates offof dopamine, right?
And we know that.
So the second the dopaminestops, we stop, right?
And that's the problem with someof these, a lot of these
strategies is that they are notdesigned to continue to feed the
dopamine and or we go reallyhard and we get super hyper
(06:27):
focused, but then we crash,right?
And so that's where theseprograms, that's why I say like
neurotypical programs will workfor a while because you get in,
it's a dopamine hit, it'ssomething new, you can get super
hyper-focused on it.
And then all of that kind ofstarts to wear off, and then the
shutdown happens, right?
The demand avoidance kicks inand all of those other pieces
(06:48):
where our brain is just likechasing that next dopamine hit
and really wanting, like, okay,I need something new, I need
something different, and wecan't stick with it.
And that's my biggest thing isbeing able to stick with
something consistently because Idon't feel like I it's just not,
it's just not in me.
(07:08):
I'm not going to.
I thrive with change, I thrivein those ways.
And so I had to create a systemand a program that allowed me to
maintain focus, right?
Because we can't just beswitching what we're doing every
five seconds in our business.
That doesn't work.
So it's like, how can wecontinue to maintain focus while
also giving ourselves these likelittle outs of like, I only have
(07:29):
to do this for this many days,and then I'm I get to do
something different.
And once I figured that out andand found that strategy, then I
was like, everything else kindof fell into place and
everything else starts to click.
And I very rarely now come upagainst that demand avoidance.
I still do, obviously, in justgeneral everyday tasks.
Um, but for the most part, I'mable to maintain, and my clients
(07:52):
who also have struggled foryears and years and years are
able to maintain and stayconsistent with something for
far longer because it isdesigned to be done in these
like short incremental sprints.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Yeah, that's a perfect segue to my first
question because I am, you know,it's one of our favorite ADHD
memes of like, oh, well, it'sthe new year, time to buy 28
planners you're not actuallygonna use.
And I'd have drawers full ofplanners, and I have the wall
calendar, and I bought the easelwith the thing, and then you can
make the list and all the thingsand the sticky notes.
(08:27):
And I I feel like I have apretty good system now that
works for me, but it's been alot of trial and error.
So the first thing I wanted toask you is why do you think that
the traditional businessplanning methods and the
traditional like approaches togrowth don't necessarily work
for entrepreneurs with ADHD andsometimes have the opposite
(08:50):
effect?
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I think a lot of it is because they're designed for
like monotonous, like in a lotof ways.
It's like do this, say, youknow, show up here, do this, and
it's like too long of a time,even if it's 90 days or
quarterly increments, or we'redoing it for the half year, or
everything is just it's toolong.
There's no real stop and pause,and it's just not going to work.
(09:16):
Like that level of longevity andhaving to maintain consistency
for that, for even like I said,a quarterly 90 days, a lot of
times something's gonna happen.
We're gonna have a down day.
Um, the other thing I think thatthe traditional advice follows
is again, is doing thingsrepetitiously and it doesn't
(09:38):
flow in cycles.
Like I said, like with ADHD, alot of times we get that hyper
focus and then we need itdowntime.
Then we get hyper focused and weneed downtime.
And a lot of traditionalbusiness planning and growth
strategies don't factor in thatdowntime.
So I'm working with like aclient right now, and she she's
doing these launches, whichworks for her because she can
(09:59):
get super hyper focused, butthen she crashes hard.
And for a long time, she keptpushing through and pushing
through and pushing, and sheended up in a state of burnout
so bad.
And so now, you know, what we dois we build these cohorts to
where she's doing theselaunches, and then we schedule
in like two weeks of downtimewhere she's not doing anything
new, she's not creating, she'snot just completely taking
(10:22):
everything off her schedule toallow for the crash because the
crash is inevitable.
It's going to happen becauseit's on the flip side of the
hype, the hyper focus.
And so just being able to shiftand like create those spaces
where most traditional advicewould be like launch, then get
right into your launch and thenstart moving, and then you're
(10:43):
thinking about your next launch,and then you're doing this, and
where are you going here?
And okay, you've got this cohortgoing now.
What?
And it's all this like constantstate of doing and creating, and
it just doesn't allow for any ofthat downtime, that reset, that
refocus that so many people withADHD need.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think even people whodon't have ADHD, we are always
as business owners, we arealways looking at like what's
the next thing, right?
Like, we don't stop tocelebrate, we don't stop to
rest, we don't stop foranything.
We're like, did that, now what'sthe next thing?
Did that, now what's the nextthing?
What's the next thing?
And that's something I've had toget so much better at is giving
(11:21):
myself that time to like, it'sokay that you're taking a nap
when there's 25,000 things thatneed to be done, right?
It's okay that you are sittingin the hot tub when your house
is a mess and your dogs need tobe walked.
Like getting better at givingyourself that space to take
those breaks and understandingthat, like the more you do that,
(11:42):
you see how it pays off in thelong run.
It doesn't pay off to keep doingthe next thing, the next thing,
the next thing.
Cause like you said, then youcompletely burn out and it is
the opposite of helpful.
So what else you touched on it alittle bit, but when it comes to
like an ADHD-friendly approachto business growth and business
(12:02):
planning, what does thatactually look like?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Well, with the framework that I developed, so I
developed a framework called theFocus Visionary, because again,
that was I named it that becauseit's exactly what I my ideal
client, right?
They're visionaries and theylack focus, right?
That's what most ADHD businessowners, or just in general,
business owners are.
So inside of that framework,really the precipice of it is
(12:25):
focused in on one, having like aNorth Star, which to me is
different than setting goals.
It's not necessarily sayingabout like, I'm gonna hit six
figures in revenue in twomonths, or you know, it's not
these like really hard setgoals, but they're just more of
a North Star, like a guidinglight that is like, this is what
(12:45):
I'm working towards, but there'sno how behind it, right?
It's just a vision of whichright in itself creates the
space and the creativity for theADHD brain of like, I know I'm
focused towards this, but I haveall of this creative freedom and
how that is achieved.
So that's number one is justmaking sure that we look at goal
(13:07):
setting and vision planningdifferently, and it's not
concrete for the most part,depending on how people approach
it.
But anyways, just having thatlike North Star.
And then from that, what I havefound works the best and what I
created is we do all of ourbusiness planning in 60-day
increments versus quarterly or90 days or anything of that
(13:29):
sort, because 60 days to me islike that sweet spot of 30 days
is not a long enough time tocollect any real data to say
whether or not something isworking or to know whether or
not our strategy is actuallyexecuting well.
But 90 days can feel like aneternity.
So 60 days is kind of that sweetspot of really looking at it and
saying, okay, we've only got todo this one thing for 60 days.
(13:51):
And I also kind of teach peopleto break it into seasons.
So, like, are we in a salesseason?
Are we in a visibility season?
Are we in an operations season?
So again, the brain is notoverloaded.
We know exactly what we'reworking on.
It's like, okay, I'm in avisibility season.
My goal is to increase my emaillist, right?
Like the intention, it's veryit's intentional, not so much
(14:13):
again, set with hard setmilestones.
And then, but it's only for 60days, right?
Because people get sick of it.
And so then it's like at the endof 60 days, we have that space,
that time to evaluate, look atit, and really like see what
worked, what really went wellduring that 60 days, what
didn't, and do I get to moveinto a different season now?
(14:34):
Right.
So if you don't love selling,then you can come back into
visibility season.
If people love to be in aselling season, but yet their
pipeline is dry, it's like,okay, let's move into visibility
season.
And what does that look like?
So it really is like thatfreedom and flexibility of like,
you only have to do it for 60days.
I remember when I did, I wasdoing like one of these beach
(14:56):
body workouts a long time ago,P90X.
And I just remember one of them,he was like, you can do anything
for two minutes.
And I was like, Yeah, right.
You know, it's like a wall setfor two minutes or something
like that.
And that's kind of the way I sayit to my clients now, is like,
you can do anything for 60 days,because that the reality of it
is most business owners are notworking full time, they're
working 20, 30 hours a week.
So, and maybe four days a week,some are working a full five
(15:19):
days, but even at that, fivedays times, you know, out of a
60-day period is really onlywhat 40 days for the most part,
it's 30 days, right?
So it's not that long of aperiod of time.
We can convince our brains to dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think breaking down thingsinto those smaller chunks has
been hugely helpful for mebecause I've always been
somebody who wanted to setgoals.
Like it always seems like a goodidea to have annual goals and
then quarterly goals.
And like that always seems likea good idea.
But even when I set goals, thenyou ask me in February, like,
what are your goals for theyear?
I'm like, I don't know.
(15:57):
But I'm sure they were reallygood, whatever they were.
So yeah, I breaking those downinto like now, I break it into
quarterly goals, and then I lookat the quarterly goals and I
see, like, okay, so if this ismy goal for the end of the three
months, what do I need to do inJanuary, February, and March?
And then I'm able to break itdown into like weeks and days
and that kind of stuff.
And that has been hugely helpfulfor me.
(16:18):
So I love that.
That's really good advice.
How do we?
I feel like one of the thingsthat I really struggle with is
momentum.
And part of that is because likeI love to procrastinate.
And part of the reason I love toprocrastinate is I get so much
done at the last minute.
Like when I was in high school,my dad would joke, like, if it
(16:39):
wasn't for the last minute,you'd never get anything done.
Ha ha ha.
But that's like actually true.
Like I have a week this weekwhere I know like next week is
gonna be crazy, crazy.
Like my calendar is packed.
And so this week I'm like, Ishould really do all of the
things.
I'm telling you right now, Iwon't do anything this week.
And I will do so many thingsnext week, which makes zero
(17:02):
sense.
So, how do we kind of balance?
Do we just give in to this likestart and stop and start and
stop that our brain wants to do?
Or is there something we can doto create more consistent
momentum?
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
Yeah, so I'm very similar in the procrastination.
Like I am a last minute Linda,100% 90.
I mean, I send a Sunday morningbrew newsletter email every
single Sunday, and I've done itfor two years, and 90% of the
time I write it Saturday at fiveo'clock at night.
Like it in literally, or I'llwrite it because we have planned
Saturday night, and I'm like, ohshit, I didn't write my
(17:38):
newsletter, right?
And so it's always, but italways works.
And it, and I actually juststopped forcing myself to try to
feel like I needed to get itdone sooner, unless for some
reason, like I'm not gonna beavailable.
So, yes, to an extent, I dothink like if that is how you
work the best, then absolutely Ithink again, we have to do what
works best for us, and trying tochange that is not necessarily
(18:02):
going to be any more productivebecause now our brain has to
process this information andlike really think about it,
where when we know if we justwait to the last minute, like we
can get that hyper focus.
That's where that ADHD, likehyper focus specificity comes
in.
But what I do try to do formyself is again looking at my
(18:23):
overarching 60-day plan andsimplifying it.
So it's like I'm not focused onall the things.
I'm if I'm focused onvisibility, like that is my
primary goal.
And I'm not trying to add allthese 8,000 other things into
the mix, that in itself helpswith momentum to really just
simplify the focus of what arewe actually doing right now.
Um, but then what I try to do isset like I'll look at my week
(18:48):
and go, okay, what is actuallyrealistic that I'm going to get
done this week?
And I don't overload it.
So if that means that my goal isto show up on threads for 30
minutes every single day, that'sthe extent of like what I do.
And I don't add more to my listbecause that's just gonna add
more friction.
It's gonna create more demandavoidance, it's gonna create
(19:09):
more like all of this.
Just I don't want to do this.
And so it doesn't get doneanyways.
Where when you give yourself thepermission of like, well, all
you've got to really get donetoday is to show up and engage
on threads for 30 minutes, thenthat becomes it's just enough to
start the momentum of like, oh,I did that, that's done.
I'm I can do this.
What else can I get done?
What else can I get done?
Right.
(19:29):
To me, it starts that likemomentum cycle of, oh, well, I'm
here, I might as well get thisdone.
Oh, I'm here, I might as wellget this done.
So it's like tricking your braininto saying, like, you only have
to do this, this one thing.
And then once you're there, it'slike, oh, it's okay.
I remember um I was listening toa podcast episode a while back
(19:50):
by Jenna Kutcher, and she wastalking about working out.
And the way she tricked herbrain into it was like, I she
gave herself permission thatafter 10 minutes, if she was
bored or hated it, she couldwalk away.
Right.
That's exactly what I was gonnasay.
She never, yeah, like she neverwalked away from it because by
that point, 10 minutes in, shewas she was into it and she
didn't want to walk away.
(20:11):
And I kind of treat when I heardthat, I was like, well, that's
exactly how I treat my businesstask too, of like, you only have
to do this one thing.
So I have like a calendar thatI'll pull up and I just put like
one thing per day on it.
And then I usually like it's Ican bang things out because I'm
here, I'm sitting at my desk.
The getting to the desk andgetting started is the hardest
part.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think I've heard that saidabout like just start
exercising.
You only have to do 10 minutesat the end of 10 minutes.
If you want to stop, then stop.
Sometimes for me, it's like allyou have to do is get dressed.
Like, all you have to do is puton the sports bra and the tennis
shoes and like just get dressed.
And like that's with exercise.
(20:52):
But even with like work andstuff, I am gonna have such a
different outcome.
Like I've started putting myshoes on, which sounds so silly,
but like I'm gonna have such adifferent outcome.
Even if I have nothing, like noZooms, I'm not leaving the
house, nothing's happening.
If I get dressed and put myshoes on, I'm gonna be so much
more productive than if I justlike wobble down here in my
pajamas and my slippers and liketry to work that day.
(21:14):
So I think any kind of hackslike that that you can find that
just like get you going, that'sthat's usually the thing, right?
It's like we just need to getgoing, then we're fine.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's so funny because I'mthe polar opposite.
And this is why I say likeeverybody has to do what works
for them.
Like if I have a day where Ineed to like be in my admin,
like behind the scenes, likejust get work done.
I am far better if I justliterally roll out of bed and
just get to my desk and like,don't worry about doing my hair,
don't worry about doing becauseto me, those are all things that
just trigger my ADHD of like,oh, I'm standing here in the
(21:47):
bathroom.
Wait, oh, I should have donelaundry.
Why don't I go through this loadof laundry?
And then, you know, it justtriggers all of these like a
million other steps.
Where if it's just like, just gosit down and you're still in
your pajamas, then I get so muchmore done.
But again, like That's what Imean by like everybody has to
find their own strategy.
And I always say every singlestrategy works, but they're not
(22:08):
all going to work for you.
And that is what is mostimportant to me, whether you are
neurotypical or neurodivergent,it doesn't matter.
Is that you have got to find thestrategy for growth that works
for you.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree.
That's so good.
That's a great place to endthings too.
Cause that is, I mean, it's whatI'm saying all the time when it
comes to networking.
And I think it happens so manyother places, right?
Where it comes to like socialmedia or how we're marketing or
whatever it is, it's like somuch of the burnout and the
resistance comes from trying todo it a way that we don't want
(22:46):
to do it.
Like, I there have been so manytimes that people have come to
the powerful women risingbusiness growth mastermind calls
and they say, like, I know Ineed to be on LinkedIn.
And so I just want to know like,what are your best strategies
for LinkedIn?
And instead of giving them thebest strategies for LinkedIn,
the women in the community arelike, Why do you think you need
to be on LinkedIn?
You don't want to be onLinkedIn.
(23:07):
You always talk about how muchyou hate LinkedIn.
Like by the end of the call,there's no best strategies for
LinkedIn.
It's you realizing, like, Iactually don't need to be on
LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
I have that conversation with mymaster, my mastermind clients
all the time too.
They'll say, like, I think Ineed to start this, or I think I
want to create a membership.
And I'm like, but wait a second.
Like, do you want to be on allthe time?
Do you want to be creatingcontent all the time?
Do you want to be on this hand?
Like, it sounds good in theory,but here's what I know about you
and where you're trying to go.
And this is why this isn't gonnaalign with that.
(23:38):
You still want to do that?
Oh, yeah, no.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah.
If you start thinking about itand you start talking about it,
and the more you think about itand talk about it, the more
excited you get, that's a goodsign.
If you start thinking andtalking about it, and the more
you start thinking and talkingabout it, the more you're like,
oh my God, this sounds terrible.
But so and so said I should doit.
So I guess I should do it.
That's your sign that you are onsomeone else's path, not your
own.
(24:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
If people want to learn moreabout you, they want to know
more about what you do, abouthow to work with you, what is
the best way for them to connectwith you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Um, well, I have a podcast.
It's called The Real Truth AboutBusiness.
So I have like 300 and somethingepisodes there.
That is definitely my bestcontent.
If you really want to learn moreabout me and the way my brain
thinks, go listen to that.
That's 100% the way to do it.
Um, but also you can visit mywebsite, Michelle Denial
Consulting.com, or connect withme on social.
I am a threads girl.
(24:31):
I love it over there on Threads.
Um, I'm on all of the socialplatforms, but the one I hang
out on and engage with the mostis definitely Threads.
And then, like I mentioned alittle bit earlier in the
episode, I do have a Sundaymorning brew email newsletter
that I send out every Sunday.
Um, and I just love that.
Like that is to me the placewhere I really truly connect
(24:52):
with my audience more on apersonal level, um, always tied
into business, but I thinkthere's human to human
connection there.
And I I just love that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
So that's awesome.
I will put the links for all ofthose in the show notes so
people can sign up for yournewsletter, check out your
podcast, and find you onThreads.
Threads is my my um ADHD friend.
I get really into threads forlike weeks and weeks and weeks,
and then I disappear fromthreads for weeks and weeks and
weeks.
(25:21):
I'm currently in a disappear,but I'll be back.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Yeah, it's fun.
Threads definitely uh punishesthe disappearance, no doubt
about that.
But you know what?
It's it to me, it's the easiestlow lift, and I think that's why
I love it so much.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I love it.
Okay, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
This has been really, reallyhelpful.
I love your outlook on things.
I love what you're doing.
I can see how what you do withclients could be so, so helpful
in getting things going andgetting things moving,
especially when you're at thatpoint where you're like, okay, I
have a general idea of what'sgoing on.
I'm just not really sure likewhere to go from here.
(25:56):
So I hope our listeners willreach out to you and thank you
again.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
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