April 27, 2026 • 47 mins
HOT TAKE: You can follow every “proven” strategy and still feel completely off in your marketing.
In this episode, I’m joined by Laura Hulleman, Marketing Strategist and longtime member of the PWR Business Growth Mastermind, to break down why so many smart, experienced entrepreneurs get stuck trying to follow marketing advice that was never designed for how they actually think, communicate, or connect.
You're not doing it wrong - you're just using strategies that weren't designed for you.
We're unpacking:
- What’s really happening behind a lot of “proven” strategies.
- How starting with your "ideal client avatar" can backfire.
- Why forcing yourself into someone else’s framework almost always leads to inconsistent results.
- How to build your messaging around who you are, what you stand for, and what you naturally do best.
- The order of operations that saves you time, money, and energy.
If your marketing has felt inconsistent, forced, or harder than it should be, this episode will help you fix the problem at the root instead of chasing someone else's strategy.
Links & References:
Join Laura and I inside the PWR Business Growth Mastermind!
Come network with us! CLICK HERE to attend your first PWR Connection Network virtual speed networking event at no cost using the promo code FIRSTTIME
Get Laura's course, Why No One Gets What You Doat no cost using the promo code PODCAST
Take the Endotype Quiz at www.endotype.com
Connect with Laura on LinkedIn and Facebook
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist and the founder of Powerful Women Rising - a business growth ecosystem for female entreprenuers who want to create real momentum through real relationships.
Inside the PWR Connect Network and the PWR Business Growth Mastermind, Melissa helps women in business get build relationships, increase visibility and get more referrals without pressure, perfection or performative networking.
She's on a mission to change the way women grow their businesses - proving that you can be authentic, values-driven and profitable at the same time.
Melissa lives in Colorado with two dogs (Peyton and Ally), three cats (Giorgio, Karma and Betty) and any number of foster kittens. She hates winter, seafood and feet. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and buying books she'll never read.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Hello, Laura.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Melissa, I'm so happy to behere.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Yes, I'm so happy to have you here.
I can't believe it's taken thislong to get you on the show, but
I am so happy to be chattingwith you today.
And I love if people arewatching on YouTube how your
jacket and your lipstick match.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
I try very hard.
I actually don't try that hard.
It was accident.
Like accidentally, I found thetwo right shades, and so now I
wear them together.
It's really working for you.
It's really working for you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Before we dive into today's topic, tell everybody a
little bit about you and aboutwhat you do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
Sure.
Um, so I'm Laura Holliman.
I am the creator of the EndotypeFormula Personality Profiling
Assessment, which is a profilethat was created by a coach, me,
uh, for coaches to be able tounderstand the coaching
business, who their idealclients are, what they do, even
better.
I also have a podcast, RavingCoaches, um, where weekly we
(00:59):
talk about the business ofcoaching.
And I help coaches with theirmarketing to be able to simplify
it, make it personalized, andmake sure that they're getting
paid.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Especially that last part.
Yeah, that's an important part.
That's that's a key that wewould all like in our business.
Um, so I feel like there's somany things that we could talk
about today.
And you have been a member ofthe Powerful Women Rising
Business Growth Mastermind for awhile now.
And so one thing I know aboutyou is you have a lot of
(01:33):
experience and a lot ofknowledge.
And although what youspecifically do with your
clients really is geared towardscoaches, most of your expertise
and your experience really doesapply to people in all
businesses.
So even when you're usingexamples today or stories from
your experience and stuff likethat, and we're talking about
coaches, I want to make sureeverybody knows that like this
(01:56):
really is applicable to anyonewith a business.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I've helped a real estate agent brand themselves,
two photographers brandthemselves.
Um, I have my friend who is acottage baker, gone
professional, who uh we createda very successful brand in
marketing for.
So I've helped businessesoutside of coaches.
It's just that coaching is mypassion.
(02:20):
And where I started 16 years agowas as a coach.
Um, and and right watched toomany amazing coaches who had so
much to offer the world go outof business because of a silly
thing like marketing.
So that's kind of where I'vechosen to narrow my focus.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
Yeah.
Okay, so let's talk about thissilly thing called marketing.
Yeah, okay.
How do we how do we not let itruin us?
So, one of the things that youand I very much have in common
is we talk a lot aboutfollowing, not following the one
size fits all advice, the cookiecutter script.
This is how you should introduceyourself at networking events,
(03:01):
this is how you should marketyourself.
If you're gonna launch a newcourse, you should do A, B, C,
and D, and that will besuccessful.
And of course, you and I bothknow because we have both been
coaches trying to buildbusinesses, how appealing those
things are, right?
Like we would love to have theanswer.
And if you tell me A, B, C, andD will make you six figures this
(03:22):
year, then by God, I'm gonna doA, B, C, and D.
Why is that a problem?
Or why does that not work foreveryone?
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
So, right, so because we're different is the
fast, easy, dirty answer there.
Um, but to illustrate, um we'reeven different at different
points in our business.
So when a lot of times when wefirst get into business, there's
(03:54):
some question marks attached toour coaching.
Um, and we have more of maybe asupportive style or a
collaborative, like figuring itout style.
And then as we go through and wereally start figuring out what
we do, and we got some paidclients and we're making a go of
it, all of a sudden startscoming forth this very direct
(04:16):
nature that might be inside ofus.
We personally evolve over time,which makes sense.
So then here's this coach who'slike, I made six figures.
Well, probably they have a verydirect style, probably they have
a very um specific way ofcommunicating that works for
(04:40):
them and works for the peoplethat they're working with, um,
but might not work for you.
Because it all depends on whoyou are at this point in your
life and at this point in yourcareer, and who your clients
are.
Because really all marketing isis this trust-building bridge
(05:02):
between you and your clients,and if you can build that bridge
of trust with your marketing,then you'll have this steady
stream of people joining you inyour coaching program.
However, any hint or littleenergetic whiff of inauthentic
(05:23):
behavior, of a message that'snot yours, of something that
you're saying or doing becausethe expert told you to that
makes you feel icky, and andthat bridge crumbles, and you
don't have a string of clients.
So that one size fits all isnever gonna work.
And I'm gonna pull back thecurtain.
(05:45):
A lot of those people who arepromising you six figures and
saying they made six figures intheir coaching business, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
Many, many of them are makingsix figures, selling you a
course that is sold to make sixfigures.
They're excellent marketers tocoaches.
They may not have made sixfigures selling directly to
(06:06):
their coaching clients.
Um, and they're kind of sellingyou a dream.
They might be great marketersfor themselves, great
salespersons, because asalesperson and a marketer are
slightly different.
So they might do great atmarketing to a desperate coach,
(06:27):
but not so great at marketing toyour clients.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Yes.
Girl, don't even get me startedon that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I know, I know.
There's it's such there'sthere's amazing marketers in the
world, and there's a lot ofmarketers in the world that are
very heartfelt in what they do.
And there's predatory marketerswho just want to make that sale,
(06:55):
or who are very myopic inthinking that the one thing
they're marketing, I marketsocial media, and social media
is the where it's at.
I market LinkedIn, and LinkedInis where it's at for everybody.
They're so myopic that theythey're and they're kind of
wanting to make money too.
(07:17):
So, right, so there's a littlebit of maybe some desperation
where they're like, Yeah, yeah,you can totally get your clients
for selling, you know, jewelrywidgets on LinkedIn.
Absolutely, when maybe that'snot where they are at all.
So it's tough to find the rightmarketers out there, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
And I think in my experience, a lot of it has been
just they're just not tellingthe full story, right?
Like I and I have been inseveral quote unquote
masterminds.
I have to put that in quotesbecause really it was just group
coaching, not a mastermind, thatI paid$10,000 for, that I paid
$25,000 for.
I did stop before I got to the$50,000 mastermind.
(08:00):
Thank you very much.
Good job, good job.
Uh but what I realized afterbeing in these programs and
feeling like there must besomething wrong with me because
I'm doing all the things thatthey're telling me to do, and
all of the things that they'resaying worked for them, but
they're not working for me.
So clearly the problem is me,right?
It's not the formula.
(08:22):
And what I have realized on theother side of that, and I've
actually had several of thesecoaches on my podcast talking
about like what I didn't say topeople was I'd been building my
network for 10 years beforethis, or I had a degree in
marketing, or I had done salesfor this company for 10 years
(08:44):
before that, right?
They just say, I showed up, Idecided I wanted a business, I
did step one, two, three, four,and five, and I made six
figures.
So we all think we're gonna showup and do those steps and make
six figures.
And I think, like what you said,I talk a lot about the way that
I built my coaching businessthrough relationships, through
connections, through networking.
(09:05):
But you'll never hear me saythat's all you need.
Just go meet people and talk topeople.
That will build your wholebusiness, right?
There's gotta be some otherthings too.
Like we still do need to market,we still do need to sell, we
still probably need some sort ofonline presence.
So I think that's part of ittoo, is like, I don't know,
(09:25):
maybe we should do a whole otherepisode about red flags.
But to me, that's a big thing,is if somebody is saying, like,
this is the only thing you need.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
I actually on my website, I havea free guide to for coaches
specifically, how to pick goodmarketers.
And I put in there a bunch ofred flags.
Here's the questions you need toask them.
Here's the red flags that youneed to listen for.
And if you're hearing this, ifyou're hearing, right, if you're
saying what's the return oninvestment for this, and they're
(09:54):
like, Well, it's really hard tocalculate return on investment,
a lot of it depends on you, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And they're not able to paintfor you a path.
Like, they can't get most ofthem won't guarantee a return on
investment and can't.
But if they can't paint for youwhen you invest money and you do
this, here's how the money comesback to you.
(10:18):
So a few other red flags thatexist.
And yeah, I think it's we reallyneed we go into it kind of
blindly when we start ourbusinesses, and we need help
knowing what the right questionsare to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, we'll have to link that inthe show notes so people can
check that out.
Back to marketing and notfollowing the one size fits all
advice.
So, okay, we now we know notwhat not to do.
So, how do we figure out likewhat is my way of doing things?
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I so I have this philosophy, andit's coming out in a book here
pretty soon.
But I think there's only sixthings we need to do as a coach,
and I think probably as a smallbusiness owner in general to be
able to get paid.
Going and talking to people,that's number two, right?
Because I and it's a frequently,you know, right?
(11:10):
We could get a whole soapboxabout that, but it's a
frequently under um,underutilized, undervalued step.
That it's much easier to likework on my website again or
build another funnel or and youdon't need any of that to make
your first sale.
You need to talk to people.
(11:31):
But step number one is know whatyou uniquely do.
So whether you're sellinginsurance or you're selling
mortgages or you're sellingcoaching, you there's there's
competition.
There's there's other people outthere that do similar things,
(11:55):
right?
Coaches have it a little bitharder, quite honestly, because
there's still a vast number ofthe population that don't even
know what coaching is yet.
That's why it irritates me somuch when I hear from people
like the coaching market's notsaturated.
Well, that's bull crap becausepeople don't even know what it
is.
That's that's ridiculous.
People don't even know what itis.
(12:15):
So, um, so it's not saturatedyet.
But in terms of a service-basedindustry, you really have to
write, it's what everybody elsewill call like find your niche.
But I think that they'reexplaining how to do it wrong
because most of the nichefinding that's out there starts
(12:39):
with well, what do you want tosell?
Who wants to buy that?
Okay, let's let's create a wholeplatform andor a brand andor
messaging that's all about them.
And then you have to try and fitinto the brand that some
(13:04):
marketer came up with based onsome market research or some
concept that you guys both cameup with, instead of just
authentically walking throughlife yourself and into your
business conversations asyourself.
So I want to start the wholeknow what you uniquely do and
the process of nichingcompletely the opposite way.
(13:28):
I want to know who you are, whatyou do, who you do that for, why
you're passionate about it, andand get really, really clear on
kind of the I call it theumbrella or the platform, the
the one thing that is so in likea burr in your saddle to fix in
(13:54):
this world and understand whythat is, that then we can go,
okay, great.
Understood, who has that right,who do we see that has that
problem?
Because now I get to you rightfor me, it's being authentically
(14:14):
who you are in business and inall the other places in your
life, and understanding how wework and not vilifying any parts
of ourself?
That's my burr in the saddle.
So marketing what you uniquelydo fits under the umbrella of my
thing that I do, and I get tojust talk about it with you
(14:36):
know, like I don't have to prepthis whole conversation you and
I are having because it's what Iembody.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
What about the people who are listening to this
that are like, but I don't wantto pick one thing?
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Because again, they're thinking that they have
to pick one.
So I when I talk about it as theumbrella concept, right?
I get this picture in my head.
This is really this is a tangentand a half, right?
In the old Batman movies, theone with the penguin, he carried
(15:10):
around a little umbrella when hehad he had stolen somebody's
baby, carried around an umbrellathat was actually a mobile and
uh for a bit for the baby, andit had all these things hanging
off of it.
That's the picture I get in myhead every time I talk about
this.
You have to have an umbrella,but under that umbrella, you can
(15:31):
talk about I I've I've written abook that really had nothing to
do with marketing, that wasstories of women who who said,
This is what I'm gonna standfor.
I'm gonna actually be me in mylife.
Nothing to do with marketing,but it's still under the
umbrella of my passion project.
I created a branding system, Inow do marketing for coaches.
(15:55):
Very shortly, I will have acertification where coaches can
use the endotype formula intheir own lives or in their own
businesses.
I can do lots of things, butit's all under the umbrella of
be who you uniquely are.
(16:16):
You don't need permission to bewho you are, and stop puffing
yourself up to seem like you'remore.
Stop shrinking and hiding in theshadows because you want to seem
invisible and feel like less.
Be who you are.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Can you give us some examples of maybe like clients
that you've worked with orpeople that you've had
conversations with and whattheir umbrellas are?
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Yeah, I can.
I can give you, um, and this isum, this is an adjacent client.
So she's the accidental bakerthat I branded.
Um she was, she and I have knowneach other a long time.
She was in the process of um,she was a fundraising
(17:02):
consultant, and she's been afundraiser her whole life.
She's been a give backger herwhole life, from the time that
she was a little kid in like ummiddle school, doing the
fundraisers at school all theway through.
And she, in our little smallcommunity of about 12 to 14,000
people, has raised millions ofdollars.
(17:24):
She was she built a homelessshelter, she built several parks
in the area, she got thefireworks going again after they
hadn't been around for five, sixyears.
And she was like, Hey, I think Iget this fundraising thing.
And I was like, Yeah.
And and she's like, Maybe, maybemy next step or this additional
(17:47):
income stream that I'm lookingfor is being a fundraising
consultant.
Cool.
So we went in and we looked ather who she is.
And she is um what we call uhone of our innocent uh
archetypes, brand archetypes.
She's the Pollyanna, the lookfor the good, the uh so fluffy,
(18:13):
just heartfelt awesomeness.
So her brand was like pink andblues and dalmations because she
had one and just all of thesethings.
Well, life as life is, shestarted moving forward on this
fundraising consultant.
She was working on a book, andher husband looked at her one
day and said, I don't want to bein construction anymore.
(18:35):
I want a food truck.
Oh, and she said, Oh, well,okay, that might change life a
little.
How are we gonna pay for a foodtruck?
And he's like, I don't know, butI know this is what I gotta do.
And so she had been doing sheloved to bake, right?
Because she was all about like apiece of pie and peace of mind
(18:57):
coming together, right?
It it as far as her innocentbrand concept.
And so she's like, Well, she haddone these bake sale like
fundraisers for herself and herfamily before.
She's like, Well, I don't know,I could bake some stuff maybe,
and like we've got to bake a lotof stuff to have a food truck,
(19:18):
but we could start.
And then they found a littlebuilding, and then they found
out that cottage bakery lawsallowed them to do this farmers
market on the edge of this verybusy street.
And she started baking and doingthis farmer's market twice a
week, and then they found outoh, farmers market, or I'm
sorry, uh, cottage baker lawshad changed, they could go
(19:39):
inside, so they started thisthing.
The first year that she was inbusiness, she baked over a
hundred thousand dollars worthof baked goods.
Most of that was in her home.
She eventually got a commercialkitchen because she couldn't
contain it in her home anymore.
Her brand pinks and blues, andshe made this little cartoony
(20:03):
lady called Cordelia, andCordelia is the epitome of all
things Pollyanna and Happy.
It's your auntie that sits youdown and gives you a hug.
And the other day she called meup.
We voxer each other regularly,and she she said, um, some
person that she had knowndecades ago from a church that
(20:24):
she had left because she didn'tfeel welcomed and she didn't
feel all the feels anymorethere, walked in to Cordelia's
sweet shop and said, I can Ihave a hug and sat there and
they hugged and cried for twofull minutes, and then that
(20:49):
person went on to explain allher life, like all the things
that were happening and herwhole story.
And she called me up and shesaid, Laura, this is Cordelia.
This is the brand of Cordelia.
Now, Cordelia wasn't really athing when we were building her
fundraising brand, but thecolors, the essence of them, the
(21:14):
feeling of them, thePollyananness of it, the
helpfulness and the comfort, allstill carried over from the
brand that we built ThinkingFundraiser to the bakery she now
runs.
Where, by the way, she has acookie jar that every week she
picks a different fundraiser andpeople donate money every single
(21:36):
week.
So she just gets to run her ownfundraiser while also funding
her life.
And her husband settled for arestaurant, which is right down
the road, instead of a foodtruck.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
That's awesome.
I love that.
Yeah.
So I feel like I always try tothink when I interview somebody
if I were listening to thispodcast, what's the thing that I
would be like?
Please ask her this.
And I feel like if I werelistening to this podcast, I
would say, okay.
So is it like pink and blue andDalmatians?
(22:10):
Is it like that I really likelove cats?
Is it that I really like wanteveryone to feel welcome and
accepted?
Like, how do I figure out whatmy thing is?
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
It's really hard to figure your whole marketing
concept out on your own.
It's kind of like putting onyour makeup with no mirror.
Right?
Like my lips would not look thisgood.
My lips would not look this goodif I did not use a mirror.
Um I do not have much of a toplift, and overlining is my
(22:46):
secret.
Uh so for the whole marketingconcept, most of the time you
need to work with someone.
That doesn't mean it has to bestep number one.
For some people, it is.
There are some people I'mworking with a um a couple of
brand new coaches right now.
(23:07):
And the one she wasn't a coachyet, but she knew exactly what
she was going to do.
She was writing the book.
She already had a foundation setup in alignment with this whole
personal story of hers that ledher to coaching.
And she wanted to do justice tothe foundation, to the book, to
the coaching, and bring it alltogether.
(23:27):
She knew she needed help.
Um, I have another one who hasbeen in corporate for a million
years.
She is going to be helping andis helping right now uh women
mostly, but people who are thatfirst and second, third
generation immigrant whostruggles in living in two
(23:50):
worlds, having those ties to thehome and having those ties into
corporate, not feeling quitelike you belong in either, and
not feeling like you can ask forwhat you need and want at work
and going for the big.
But she's been mentoring peoplein her corporate environment for
a long time.
So she also knew exactly thepath that she wanted.
(24:13):
I don't think people have tostart there.
What people have to start withis start with mining who they
are, what they stand for.
Again, that can be a difficultthing, which is why I created
the endotype formula quiz.
Um anybody can take the quiz,it's free on my website.
(24:34):
Four questions, and it's goingto tell you your coaching
superpowers.
And a lot of times people aresurprised by their coaching
superpowers because it's notwhat they felt like their
superpower is.
But the voice inside that guidesus is not usually the superpower
that's outside when we're havingthe conversations and when we're
(24:57):
doing the thing that we'redoing.
Those come from two differentparts of ourselves.
And so the endotype formula cutsthrough it all and goes, here's
the part that your clients see,not the voice you hear or the
guidance you feel inside.
Here's what it is outside.
From there, you can start going,okay, if this is what my clients
(25:17):
think of me and want to buy fromme, then how do I wrap that up
with the things that I stand forand the emotions that I bring?
And you it's a little bit oftrial and error before you get
your first couple of clients,and then you can hire someone
who will actually take you onthat journey and on that
(25:40):
process.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
So that's why that's why building a website for me in
my six steps, build having yourbrand, doing your messaging,
building your website are likesteps three, four, five.
They are not steps one.
Know what you uniquely do.
I don't want people coming to meand being like, oh, my signature
color is red.
Because if red and the powerbehind red doesn't really work
(26:07):
for who you are in your brand,then I don't care what your
signature color is, babe.
We're not going to use itanyways.
We're going to capture yourenergy and your essence and the
support that you're providing.
So it's not about figuring outall those design things right
away.
It's about figuring out thatinternal, what your clients
(26:31):
receive, starting to practice byhaving great conversations.
And then we build all thevisuals and the messaging and
those things.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
Yes.
Yes.
That's it.
Because I talk a lot about howwe tend to build our businesses
backwards, right?
Like we were talking at thebeginning of this.
We want to have a beautifulwebsite with all of our good
branding photos and our likeslogan headline, and we need
this and this and this and this.
And then we'll go out and startnetworking.
(27:03):
Then we'll go out and startmeeting people.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes someone says to me, Oh, I
really loved your virtualnetworking event.
I'm sure the connection networkis really great.
I just need to get a littlefarther in my business before
I'm ready to start networking.
And I'm like, girl, no, this isthe time.
It's such when you're talking,I'm thinking about what we do
(27:27):
with networking too, right?
Where or with marketing.
We're like, let me choose mycolors first and my fonts.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Oh, the time we spend on fonts.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Let me go in Canva and make myself a logo, right?
I'll do all of these things andthen I'll make them in a
website, or I'll hire somebodyto make a website and do all
these things.
And part of the reason, I mean,there's several reasons I think
that we are saying that this isbackwards, and feel free to jump
in and expand on this.
But to me, I think the coachthat I was the day I started
(28:01):
coaching is nothing like thecoach I was the day I left
coaching.
And I did it for seven years,right?
And when I first started out, Isaid, I want to coach.
I was doing dating relationshipcoaching.
When I started out, I said, Iwant to coach the women who keep
attracting the same man in adifferent body over and over
again, because that was my life.
(28:21):
And by the time I left coaching,the people I was coaching were
all like 40, 50 plus women whohad been married 20, 25, 30
years, had been divorced for awhile, and now we're getting
back into dating, but it wasvery scary and very different
than it was when they were 19and met their husband, right?
So, not even remotely the samemessaging, not even remotely the
(28:43):
same website, and people I hateto break it to you, also not the
same colors or fonts.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Right.
And can you remember, Melissa,the disappointment that came
with after all the time andenergy and potential money that
you poured into that first brandand the website, and it's just
right.
And oh nope, I gotta move itover a teensy bent this way, and
(29:12):
then nothing worked, yes, or itevolved very quickly to the next
iteration, and and and it waslike I have I have to do this
over.
That's that feeling of like ohthe disappointment is what
usually makes coaches startstepping outside of the coaching
(29:35):
that they that they want to do.
Yeah, it it's the thing thatdisappointment that takes them
out of it.
And um, and and I just don'twant them to have to do that.
You can build a coachingbusiness and start getting your
clients without a website,totally possible.
Yeah, just go talk to people.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Yeah.
I was just doing a uh strategysession with one of the members
of the um powerful women risingbusiness growth mastermind.
Sorry, I got distracted by thecattail in my face.
Um every pet is like, does notcare that I exist until I get on
Zoom, and then all of a suddenhere they are.
Okay, thank you, ma'am.
Um and we were talking about aprogram that she wants to launch
(30:20):
that she's never done before,that she's in the very beginning
stages of, but she wants, shereally wants to have it ready to
go by May because it's a 90-daything and she wants it over by,
you know, them to be done bysummer and blah, blah, blah.
And she's talking about I needto make a sales page and a form
and this and then a welcomesequence and a this and a this.
And I said, honestly, if I wereyou this first time around, I
(30:40):
would sell it from a Googlesheet.
Yep.
And she was like, What a Google?
How dare you?
How dare you propose a Googlesheet?
But honestly, like whether youare selling from a Google sheet
or a beautiful sales page is notgood, what's gonna make the
difference between whethersomeone signs up for your
program or not at this stage.
(31:02):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
And they don't think they don't care.
No, they just right, yeah.
I for and I remember like Istarted, I've been a small
business owner for 25 years.
I have a collection of businesscards because I've built over
five different businesses thatto profitability, and I've built
a few more that were notprofitable.
And man, back in the day, wewere I was doing business before
(31:26):
the internet existed, and youwould you'd go to the stationery
store and you'd pick your yourcard stock for your business
card, and you'd pick the littleicon, the color of ink and the
fonts.
But when you had that businesscard, that's when you felt
briefly like you were inbusiness.
The website has become thepseudo business card to that
(31:50):
back, you know, like, and we allgiggle like thinking about that
and how proud I was of mybusiness cards.
Um, they they didn't, thatwasn't the thing that got me
business.
I had to go like smile and dialor go knock some doors or go
figure out, you know, some otherthings or network, but somehow
(32:13):
get in front of people.
My business cards didn't closeany deals.
And our websites are interestingtools, and especially once we
understand what we uniquely doand we understand how to talk
about it, and we've gotten acouple of clients and we've had
those awkward salesconversations.
Now it's like, oh yeah, yeah,I'm gonna make that website work
(32:34):
for me.
But I worked with a coach, um,Wendy Herman of Green Table
Consulting.
She set herself up with aone-page Hi, I'm Wendy Green
Table Consulting.
We stand for um personal growthis professional development.
(32:55):
I don't know that it said muchmore than that, and it said
contact Wendy, and that was itfor about a year and a half, and
she used that until about fourmonths before um she left her
corporate career or cut down hercorporate career considerably,
(33:16):
um, because she wanted to, shewas already getting clients, not
because her website was perfect,beautiful, and she had a great
funnel.
Not even because she was usingLinkedIn effectively, but
because she was havingconversations with people.
She knew what she stood for, sheknew what she wanted to do.
Then she and I worked togetherand we expanded her brand, we
(33:38):
created that website, we dialedin her messaging, we discovered
a few, a couple of passionelements of hers and a couple of
projects she didn't know she wasgoing to be working on.
But I was like, oh, that's gold.
Like, that's the book, friend.
And uh, I'm pretty sure she'spretty close to launching that
(33:58):
book now, too.
So you don't have to do it withlike just don't waste the energy
and the emotional cost of allthat time, and then it doesn't
work like you expected it to do,which is bringing all your
clients for you.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Because all these things thatwe're talking about are
valuable, all these things thatwe're talking about have a
place, right?
Coaches obviously are important.
We're not saying every coach outthere is great at marketing and
they're terrible at coaching.
There are amazing coaches outthere, and I've worked with
many, I know you've worked withmany.
Uh, websites are important,right?
(34:41):
All these things are important.
It's just figuring out this,like you said at the very
beginning of this, it's findingyour unique type, it's finding
your sweet spot, whatever yourlittle Batman umbrella is, yep.
And really living into that andgrowing your business into that
rather than going backwards andsaying, Oh, well, I have this
(35:03):
website or I have this likeideal client avatar that I
created with Sally thestrategist.
And so now I have to fit myselfinto that website and that
client avatar.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
Exactly.
And that's why most of myclients, we don't even start
with me selling them one of myfull marketing packages.
Most of my clients, we startwith what I call my CSI call, my
clarity strategy impact,90-minute call.
Because we can get that clarityaround what you uniquely do.
(35:38):
And in the marketing package,when I'm working with them
weekly, uh, we get more and moreclear.
But we can in that CSI clear, wecan get the clarity on what it
what it is, we can get thestrategy behind.
Oh, you want to do it this way.
Here's a couple of ideas, andthey can start creating that
(36:00):
impact and income.
Maybe that's what the I shouldstand for.
Clarity strategy, income.
I think I like that better.
Um wait, I have to change mywebsite.
Um, but um, but yeah, they canthey can start at the beginning,
even if they're starting over atthe beginning, but it's enough
(36:24):
to get them going in the rightdirection to create a few
clients, which creates income,which pays some bills, but also
can pay for some additionalmarketing.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
So you mentioned a couple of times your endotype
quiz.
Tell us a little bit about thatbecause I'm gonna link that in
the show notes.
I was actually looking before wegot on this call for the email
that had my results in it, and Icouldn't find it, but I did find
an email that I sent to youafter I took it.
And I was like, I just want youto know this was scarily
accurate.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I love those emails.
The one that I like better iswhat I get F you.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know you forknowing these things about my
about me.
Um, yeah.
So my endotype quiz, it's forquestion assessment, which a lot
of times people are like, okay.
You know, like it's gonna tellme something like, oh, I'm I'm a
(37:18):
disc S supporter.
Um, no.
We have dialed in the quiz anddialed in the questions really,
really carefully andthoughtfully.
And what it does is it gives usa behind-the-scenes look at not
only how you think, which iswhat a lot of the questions are
based on, but around the parts,um, internal family system, the
(37:43):
parts work, what's your youngchild connected to?
What do they crave?
What does your judgmental parentvoice inside your head sound
like?
We know all of that, as well aswhat your hero's journey is,
what your genius superpower is,all based on those four
questions.
We know what you're connectedto.
When you get your profileresults, most of the time people
(38:06):
are a little um upset with mebecause the first word of your
profile type.
Um, so if I remember correctly,Melissa, you're a lost pituitary
intuitive.
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
That sounds right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
And the first word lost, oh, what are you talking
about?
Um, there's one that's calledangry, there's one that's called
stubborn.
Um, that first word though, it'snot a descriptor of you, it is
your red flag word.
So for people who like myself,um, I'm the lonely or I'm sorry,
(38:41):
the lonely adrenal interpreter.
When I start having thisexperience of lonely, not
because I'm alone, not because Iam lonely, but this experience
inside that I can identify as,oh, lonely, got it.
That's my red flag that oh, I'mfeeling this.
(39:04):
I need to slow down before Istart making really crap choices
in my life.
That's our red flag word.
The second word is the um the uhuh either endocrine gland or
your nervous system, whateveryou're most closely attached to
that most closely runs yourbody.
So for you, it's that pituitarygland.
And the last word is your uniquetitle.
(39:26):
So I usually just call them bythe last word.
So you're an intuitive, I'm aninterpreter.
Um, but that comes with somemeaning behind it also, and you
get all that information as wellas a whole bunch more of what we
know about you when you take thequiz and you get your profile,
but know that all thatinformation in your profile, oh,
(39:47):
tip of the iceberg of what iswhat the endotype formula shows
us, and from there it predictsour brand type and it predicts
our ideal clients and itpredicts so much stuff about us
as an individual, but also as abusiness owner.
Yeah, it's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
You also have a course that is awesome and I
love it, and you are giftingthat to our listeners.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
Yeah.
So my course that I created umis right, and and you would love
it because it's all aboutgetting those right two
sentences that actuallydescribes your work.
We've all been at networkingmeetings before, um, and we
start introducing ourselves andgo through the Zoom room or go
around the room, and the firstcoach stands up and says, I work
(40:35):
with middle-aged women and Iempower them to set boundaries.
And the next coach stands up andsays, I work with women who lack
confidence and need to be ableto set boundaries, who are
middle life and high achieving.
And the next coach stands up andsays, right?
I'm I work with amazing,successful women business
owners, and they're all sayinglike the same dang thing.
(40:59):
And the ideal clients that aresitting in that room that need
coaching right now, they stoppedlistening three coaches ago
because they they don't knowwhat you guys do.
So um, I'm I'm I'm spoiling it,but the course is called Why No
One Gets What You Do.
And it's because we're usingbuzzwords, because we're not
(41:20):
basing it on um what we reallyuniquely do, and because we're
not using what my mom calls realhuman words.
She and I were watching acommercial one time, and a
coachy coach was like, Hey, fam,I'm manifesting abundance here
and really grounding in nature.
And I giggled and I was like,ha, that's a coach.
(41:41):
And she was like, How do youknow that's a coach?
And I was like, That's coachlanguage.
And she said, Laura, thosearen't real human words.
She is not wrong.
Uh, so it's uh it takes youthrough the process of
investigating and exploring whatyou uniquely do, utilizes the
(42:03):
endotype formula, utilizes somegreat questions to put together
a clear statement of what you doas a coach, and then break that
down into kind of a two-sentencesummary that you can use as your
what I do statement.
You can find it over on mywebsite, we'll get you a link.
And then when you go to pay,normally, so if I take people
(42:25):
through the process myself, Icharge upwards of$900 for it
because it's a very deliberateprocess.
The course itself is$349, butfor listeners of your podcast,
use the code podcast and theyget it for free.
unknown (42:43):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (42:43):
That's so cool.
Thank you so much.
I will put that info in the shownotes.
Uh, if people want to know moreabout what you do, if they want
to connect with you further,what's the best way for them to
do that?
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
Yeah, so if they want to know what I do because
they want to know, right?
They they might be interested init.
Ravingcoaches.com is my website.
If they just want to, if they'rea coach and they want more
information, they want to learnmore, they want to hear more
about the endotype, or they justwant a little tune up each week,
my podcast, which is availableover on Apple and Spotify and
(43:18):
iHeartRadio, all the places,Raving Coaches, is a great place
where each week we talk aboutthe business of coaching with a
coach.
So not only do you get to hearwhat other coaches are doing out
there in the world, which right,we all geek out about, but we
also then investigate what'sworking for them in business and
(43:38):
what's not.
Um, so we get to learn and gleanhelpful hints that may or may
not work for us, but at least weknow that they exist.
SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yeah, it's such a good podcast.
I love it.
There are there are very fewwith my short attention span
that I can sit all the waythrough, but yours is one of
them.
I love it.
It's so good.
Okay, I will put all those linksin the show notes.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing with us.
I knew this would be a goodconversation because you and I
are so in alignment on all thethings and you're just so, so
(44:11):
smart.
SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Thanks for being here.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
I loved spending the time with you.
Hello, Laura.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Melissa, I'm so happy to behere.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Yes, I'm so happy to have you here.
I can't believe it's taken thislong to get you on the show, but
I am so happy to be chattingwith you today.
And I love if people arewatching on YouTube how your
jacket and your lipstick match.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
I try very hard.
I actually don't try that hard.
It was accident.
Like accidentally, I found thetwo right shades, and so now I
wear them together.
It's really working for you.
It's really working for you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Before we dive into today's topic, tell everybody a
little bit about you and aboutwhat you do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
Sure.
Um, so I'm Laura Holliman.
I am the creator of the EndotypeFormula Personality Profiling
Assessment, which is a profilethat was created by a coach, me,
uh, for coaches to be able tounderstand the coaching
business, who their idealclients are, what they do, even
better.
I also have a podcast, RavingCoaches, um, where weekly we
(00:59):
talk about the business ofcoaching.
And I help coaches with theirmarketing to be able to simplify
it, make it personalized, andmake sure that they're getting
paid.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Especially that last part.
Yeah, that's an important part.
That's that's a key that wewould all like in our business.
Um, so I feel like there's somany things that we could talk
about today.
And you have been a member ofthe Powerful Women Rising
Business Growth Mastermind for awhile now.
And so one thing I know aboutyou is you have a lot of
(01:33):
experience and a lot ofknowledge.
And although what youspecifically do with your
clients really is geared towardscoaches, most of your expertise
and your experience really doesapply to people in all
businesses.
So even when you're usingexamples today or stories from
your experience and stuff likethat, and we're talking about
coaches, I want to make sureeverybody knows that like this
(01:56):
really is applicable to anyonewith a business.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I've helped a real estate agent brand themselves,
two photographers brandthemselves.
Um, I have my friend who is acottage baker, gone
professional, who uh we createda very successful brand in
marketing for.
So I've helped businessesoutside of coaches.
It's just that coaching is mypassion.
(02:20):
And where I started 16 years agowas as a coach.
Um, and and right watched toomany amazing coaches who had so
much to offer the world go outof business because of a silly
thing like marketing.
So that's kind of where I'vechosen to narrow my focus.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
Yeah.
Okay, so let's talk about thissilly thing called marketing.
Yeah, okay.
How do we how do we not let itruin us?
So, one of the things that youand I very much have in common
is we talk a lot aboutfollowing, not following the one
size fits all advice, the cookiecutter script.
This is how you should introduceyourself at networking events,
(03:01):
this is how you should marketyourself.
If you're gonna launch a newcourse, you should do A, B, C,
and D, and that will besuccessful.
And of course, you and I bothknow because we have both been
coaches trying to buildbusinesses, how appealing those
things are, right?
Like we would love to have theanswer.
And if you tell me A, B, C, andD will make you six figures this
(03:22):
year, then by God, I'm gonna doA, B, C, and D.
Why is that a problem?
Or why does that not work foreveryone?
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
So, right, so because we're different is the
fast, easy, dirty answer there.
Um, but to illustrate, um we'reeven different at different
points in our business.
So when a lot of times when wefirst get into business, there's
(03:54):
some question marks attached toour coaching.
Um, and we have more of maybe asupportive style or a
collaborative, like figuring itout style.
And then as we go through and wereally start figuring out what
we do, and we got some paidclients and we're making a go of
it, all of a sudden startscoming forth this very direct
(04:16):
nature that might be inside ofus.
We personally evolve over time,which makes sense.
So then here's this coach who'slike, I made six figures.
Well, probably they have a verydirect style, probably they have
a very um specific way ofcommunicating that works for
(04:40):
them and works for the peoplethat they're working with, um,
but might not work for you.
Because it all depends on whoyou are at this point in your
life and at this point in yourcareer, and who your clients
are.
Because really all marketing isis this trust-building bridge
(05:02):
between you and your clients,and if you can build that bridge
of trust with your marketing,then you'll have this steady
stream of people joining you inyour coaching program.
However, any hint or littleenergetic whiff of inauthentic
(05:23):
behavior, of a message that'snot yours, of something that
you're saying or doing becausethe expert told you to that
makes you feel icky, and andthat bridge crumbles, and you
don't have a string of clients.
So that one size fits all isnever gonna work.
And I'm gonna pull back thecurtain.
(05:45):
A lot of those people who arepromising you six figures and
saying they made six figures intheir coaching business, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
Many, many of them are makingsix figures, selling you a
course that is sold to make sixfigures.
They're excellent marketers tocoaches.
They may not have made sixfigures selling directly to
(06:06):
their coaching clients.
Um, and they're kind of sellingyou a dream.
They might be great marketersfor themselves, great
salespersons, because asalesperson and a marketer are
slightly different.
So they might do great atmarketing to a desperate coach,
(06:27):
but not so great at marketing toyour clients.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Yes.
Girl, don't even get me startedon that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I know, I know.
There's it's such there'sthere's amazing marketers in the
world, and there's a lot ofmarketers in the world that are
very heartfelt in what they do.
And there's predatory marketerswho just want to make that sale,
(06:55):
or who are very myopic inthinking that the one thing
they're marketing, I marketsocial media, and social media
is the where it's at.
I market LinkedIn, and LinkedInis where it's at for everybody.
They're so myopic that theythey're and they're kind of
wanting to make money too.
(07:17):
So, right, so there's a littlebit of maybe some desperation
where they're like, Yeah, yeah,you can totally get your clients
for selling, you know, jewelrywidgets on LinkedIn.
Absolutely, when maybe that'snot where they are at all.
So it's tough to find the rightmarketers out there, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
And I think in my experience, a lot of it has been
just they're just not tellingthe full story, right?
Like I and I have been inseveral quote unquote
masterminds.
I have to put that in quotesbecause really it was just group
coaching, not a mastermind, thatI paid$10,000 for, that I paid
$25,000 for.
I did stop before I got to the$50,000 mastermind.
(08:00):
Thank you very much.
Good job, good job.
Uh but what I realized afterbeing in these programs and
feeling like there must besomething wrong with me because
I'm doing all the things thatthey're telling me to do, and
all of the things that they'resaying worked for them, but
they're not working for me.
So clearly the problem is me,right?
It's not the formula.
(08:22):
And what I have realized on theother side of that, and I've
actually had several of thesecoaches on my podcast talking
about like what I didn't say topeople was I'd been building my
network for 10 years beforethis, or I had a degree in
marketing, or I had done salesfor this company for 10 years
(08:44):
before that, right?
They just say, I showed up, Idecided I wanted a business, I
did step one, two, three, four,and five, and I made six
figures.
So we all think we're gonna showup and do those steps and make
six figures.
And I think, like what you said,I talk a lot about the way that
I built my coaching businessthrough relationships, through
connections, through networking.
(09:05):
But you'll never hear me saythat's all you need.
Just go meet people and talk topeople.
That will build your wholebusiness, right?
There's gotta be some otherthings too.
Like we still do need to market,we still do need to sell, we
still probably need some sort ofonline presence.
So I think that's part of ittoo, is like, I don't know,
(09:25):
maybe we should do a whole otherepisode about red flags.
But to me, that's a big thing,is if somebody is saying, like,
this is the only thing you need.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
I actually on my website, I havea free guide to for coaches
specifically, how to pick goodmarketers.
And I put in there a bunch ofred flags.
Here's the questions you need toask them.
Here's the red flags that youneed to listen for.
And if you're hearing this, ifyou're hearing, right, if you're
saying what's the return oninvestment for this, and they're
(09:54):
like, Well, it's really hard tocalculate return on investment,
a lot of it depends on you, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And they're not able to paintfor you a path.
Like, they can't get most ofthem won't guarantee a return on
investment and can't.
But if they can't paint for youwhen you invest money and you do
this, here's how the money comesback to you.
(10:18):
So a few other red flags thatexist.
And yeah, I think it's we reallyneed we go into it kind of
blindly when we start ourbusinesses, and we need help
knowing what the right questionsare to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, we'll have to link that inthe show notes so people can
check that out.
Back to marketing and notfollowing the one size fits all
advice.
So, okay, we now we know notwhat not to do.
So, how do we figure out likewhat is my way of doing things?
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I so I have this philosophy, andit's coming out in a book here
pretty soon.
But I think there's only sixthings we need to do as a coach,
and I think probably as a smallbusiness owner in general to be
able to get paid.
Going and talking to people,that's number two, right?
Because I and it's a frequently,you know, right?
(11:10):
We could get a whole soapboxabout that, but it's a
frequently under um,underutilized, undervalued step.
That it's much easier to likework on my website again or
build another funnel or and youdon't need any of that to make
your first sale.
You need to talk to people.
(11:31):
But step number one is know whatyou uniquely do.
So whether you're sellinginsurance or you're selling
mortgages or you're sellingcoaching, you there's there's
competition.
There's there's other people outthere that do similar things,
(11:55):
right?
Coaches have it a little bitharder, quite honestly, because
there's still a vast number ofthe population that don't even
know what coaching is yet.
That's why it irritates me somuch when I hear from people
like the coaching market's notsaturated.
Well, that's bull crap becausepeople don't even know what it
is.
That's that's ridiculous.
People don't even know what itis.
(12:15):
So, um, so it's not saturatedyet.
But in terms of a service-basedindustry, you really have to
write, it's what everybody elsewill call like find your niche.
But I think that they'reexplaining how to do it wrong
because most of the nichefinding that's out there starts
(12:39):
with well, what do you want tosell?
Who wants to buy that?
Okay, let's let's create a wholeplatform andor a brand andor
messaging that's all about them.
And then you have to try and fitinto the brand that some
(13:04):
marketer came up with based onsome market research or some
concept that you guys both cameup with, instead of just
authentically walking throughlife yourself and into your
business conversations asyourself.
So I want to start the wholeknow what you uniquely do and
the process of nichingcompletely the opposite way.
(13:28):
I want to know who you are, whatyou do, who you do that for, why
you're passionate about it, andand get really, really clear on
kind of the I call it theumbrella or the platform, the
the one thing that is so in likea burr in your saddle to fix in
(13:54):
this world and understand whythat is, that then we can go,
okay, great.
Understood, who has that right,who do we see that has that
problem?
Because now I get to you rightfor me, it's being authentically
(14:14):
who you are in business and inall the other places in your
life, and understanding how wework and not vilifying any parts
of ourself?
That's my burr in the saddle.
So marketing what you uniquelydo fits under the umbrella of my
thing that I do, and I get tojust talk about it with you
(14:36):
know, like I don't have to prepthis whole conversation you and
I are having because it's what Iembody.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
What about the people who are listening to this
that are like, but I don't wantto pick one thing?
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Because again, they're thinking that they have
to pick one.
So I when I talk about it as theumbrella concept, right?
I get this picture in my head.
This is really this is a tangentand a half, right?
In the old Batman movies, theone with the penguin, he carried
(15:10):
around a little umbrella when hehad he had stolen somebody's
baby, carried around an umbrellathat was actually a mobile and
uh for a bit for the baby, andit had all these things hanging
off of it.
That's the picture I get in myhead every time I talk about
this.
You have to have an umbrella,but under that umbrella, you can
(15:31):
talk about I I've I've written abook that really had nothing to
do with marketing, that wasstories of women who who said,
This is what I'm gonna standfor.
I'm gonna actually be me in mylife.
Nothing to do with marketing,but it's still under the
umbrella of my passion project.
I created a branding system, Inow do marketing for coaches.
(15:55):
Very shortly, I will have acertification where coaches can
use the endotype formula intheir own lives or in their own
businesses.
I can do lots of things, butit's all under the umbrella of
be who you uniquely are.
(16:16):
You don't need permission to bewho you are, and stop puffing
yourself up to seem like you'remore.
Stop shrinking and hiding in theshadows because you want to seem
invisible and feel like less.
Be who you are.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Can you give us some examples of maybe like clients
that you've worked with orpeople that you've had
conversations with and whattheir umbrellas are?
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Yeah, I can.
I can give you, um, and this isum, this is an adjacent client.
So she's the accidental bakerthat I branded.
Um she was, she and I have knowneach other a long time.
She was in the process of um,she was a fundraising
(17:02):
consultant, and she's been afundraiser her whole life.
She's been a give backger herwhole life, from the time that
she was a little kid in like ummiddle school, doing the
fundraisers at school all theway through.
And she, in our little smallcommunity of about 12 to 14,000
people, has raised millions ofdollars.
(17:24):
She was she built a homelessshelter, she built several parks
in the area, she got thefireworks going again after they
hadn't been around for five, sixyears.
And she was like, Hey, I think Iget this fundraising thing.
And I was like, Yeah.
And and she's like, Maybe, maybemy next step or this additional
(17:47):
income stream that I'm lookingfor is being a fundraising
consultant.
Cool.
So we went in and we looked ather who she is.
And she is um what we call uhone of our innocent uh
archetypes, brand archetypes.
She's the Pollyanna, the lookfor the good, the uh so fluffy,
(18:13):
just heartfelt awesomeness.
So her brand was like pink andblues and dalmations because she
had one and just all of thesethings.
Well, life as life is, shestarted moving forward on this
fundraising consultant.
She was working on a book, andher husband looked at her one
day and said, I don't want to bein construction anymore.
(18:35):
I want a food truck.
Oh, and she said, Oh, well,okay, that might change life a
little.
How are we gonna pay for a foodtruck?
And he's like, I don't know, butI know this is what I gotta do.
And so she had been doing sheloved to bake, right?
Because she was all about like apiece of pie and peace of mind
(18:57):
coming together, right?
It it as far as her innocentbrand concept.
And so she's like, Well, she haddone these bake sale like
fundraisers for herself and herfamily before.
She's like, Well, I don't know,I could bake some stuff maybe,
and like we've got to bake a lotof stuff to have a food truck,
(19:18):
but we could start.
And then they found a littlebuilding, and then they found
out that cottage bakery lawsallowed them to do this farmers
market on the edge of this verybusy street.
And she started baking and doingthis farmer's market twice a
week, and then they found outoh, farmers market, or I'm
sorry, uh, cottage baker lawshad changed, they could go
(19:39):
inside, so they started thisthing.
The first year that she was inbusiness, she baked over a
hundred thousand dollars worthof baked goods.
Most of that was in her home.
She eventually got a commercialkitchen because she couldn't
contain it in her home anymore.
Her brand pinks and blues, andshe made this little cartoony
(20:03):
lady called Cordelia, andCordelia is the epitome of all
things Pollyanna and Happy.
It's your auntie that sits youdown and gives you a hug.
And the other day she called meup.
We voxer each other regularly,and she she said, um, some
person that she had knowndecades ago from a church that
(20:24):
she had left because she didn'tfeel welcomed and she didn't
feel all the feels anymorethere, walked in to Cordelia's
sweet shop and said, I can Ihave a hug and sat there and
they hugged and cried for twofull minutes, and then that
(20:49):
person went on to explain allher life, like all the things
that were happening and herwhole story.
And she called me up and shesaid, Laura, this is Cordelia.
This is the brand of Cordelia.
Now, Cordelia wasn't really athing when we were building her
fundraising brand, but thecolors, the essence of them, the
(21:14):
feeling of them, thePollyananness of it, the
helpfulness and the comfort, allstill carried over from the
brand that we built ThinkingFundraiser to the bakery she now
runs.
Where, by the way, she has acookie jar that every week she
picks a different fundraiser andpeople donate money every single
(21:36):
week.
So she just gets to run her ownfundraiser while also funding
her life.
And her husband settled for arestaurant, which is right down
the road, instead of a foodtruck.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
That's awesome.
I love that.
Yeah.
So I feel like I always try tothink when I interview somebody
if I were listening to thispodcast, what's the thing that I
would be like?
Please ask her this.
And I feel like if I werelistening to this podcast, I
would say, okay.
So is it like pink and blue andDalmatians?
(22:10):
Is it like that I really likelove cats?
Is it that I really like wanteveryone to feel welcome and
accepted?
Like, how do I figure out whatmy thing is?
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
It's really hard to figure your whole marketing
concept out on your own.
It's kind of like putting onyour makeup with no mirror.
Right?
Like my lips would not look thisgood.
My lips would not look this goodif I did not use a mirror.
Um I do not have much of a toplift, and overlining is my
(22:46):
secret.
Uh so for the whole marketingconcept, most of the time you
need to work with someone.
That doesn't mean it has to bestep number one.
For some people, it is.
There are some people I'mworking with a um a couple of
brand new coaches right now.
(23:07):
And the one she wasn't a coachyet, but she knew exactly what
she was going to do.
She was writing the book.
She already had a foundation setup in alignment with this whole
personal story of hers that ledher to coaching.
And she wanted to do justice tothe foundation, to the book, to
the coaching, and bring it alltogether.
(23:27):
She knew she needed help.
Um, I have another one who hasbeen in corporate for a million
years.
She is going to be helping andis helping right now uh women
mostly, but people who are thatfirst and second, third
generation immigrant whostruggles in living in two
(23:50):
worlds, having those ties to thehome and having those ties into
corporate, not feeling quitelike you belong in either, and
not feeling like you can ask forwhat you need and want at work
and going for the big.
But she's been mentoring peoplein her corporate environment for
a long time.
So she also knew exactly thepath that she wanted.
(24:13):
I don't think people have tostart there.
What people have to start withis start with mining who they
are, what they stand for.
Again, that can be a difficultthing, which is why I created
the endotype formula quiz.
Um anybody can take the quiz,it's free on my website.
(24:34):
Four questions, and it's goingto tell you your coaching
superpowers.
And a lot of times people aresurprised by their coaching
superpowers because it's notwhat they felt like their
superpower is.
But the voice inside that guidesus is not usually the superpower
that's outside when we're havingthe conversations and when we're
(24:57):
doing the thing that we'redoing.
Those come from two differentparts of ourselves.
And so the endotype formula cutsthrough it all and goes, here's
the part that your clients see,not the voice you hear or the
guidance you feel inside.
Here's what it is outside.
From there, you can start going,okay, if this is what my clients
(25:17):
think of me and want to buy fromme, then how do I wrap that up
with the things that I stand forand the emotions that I bring?
And you it's a little bit oftrial and error before you get
your first couple of clients,and then you can hire someone
who will actually take you onthat journey and on that
(25:40):
process.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
So that's why that's why building a website for me in
my six steps, build having yourbrand, doing your messaging,
building your website are likesteps three, four, five.
They are not steps one.
Know what you uniquely do.
I don't want people coming to meand being like, oh, my signature
color is red.
Because if red and the powerbehind red doesn't really work
(26:07):
for who you are in your brand,then I don't care what your
signature color is, babe.
We're not going to use itanyways.
We're going to capture yourenergy and your essence and the
support that you're providing.
So it's not about figuring outall those design things right
away.
It's about figuring out thatinternal, what your clients
(26:31):
receive, starting to practice byhaving great conversations.
And then we build all thevisuals and the messaging and
those things.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
Yes.
Yes.
That's it.
Because I talk a lot about howwe tend to build our businesses
backwards, right?
Like we were talking at thebeginning of this.
We want to have a beautifulwebsite with all of our good
branding photos and our likeslogan headline, and we need
this and this and this and this.
And then we'll go out and startnetworking.
(27:03):
Then we'll go out and startmeeting people.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes someone says to me, Oh, I
really loved your virtualnetworking event.
I'm sure the connection networkis really great.
I just need to get a littlefarther in my business before
I'm ready to start networking.
And I'm like, girl, no, this isthe time.
It's such when you're talking,I'm thinking about what we do
(27:27):
with networking too, right?
Where or with marketing.
We're like, let me choose mycolors first and my fonts.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Oh, the time we spend on fonts.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Let me go in Canva and make myself a logo, right?
I'll do all of these things andthen I'll make them in a
website, or I'll hire somebodyto make a website and do all
these things.
And part of the reason, I mean,there's several reasons I think
that we are saying that this isbackwards, and feel free to jump
in and expand on this.
But to me, I think the coachthat I was the day I started
(28:01):
coaching is nothing like thecoach I was the day I left
coaching.
And I did it for seven years,right?
And when I first started out, Isaid, I want to coach.
I was doing dating relationshipcoaching.
When I started out, I said, Iwant to coach the women who keep
attracting the same man in adifferent body over and over
again, because that was my life.
(28:21):
And by the time I left coaching,the people I was coaching were
all like 40, 50 plus women whohad been married 20, 25, 30
years, had been divorced for awhile, and now we're getting
back into dating, but it wasvery scary and very different
than it was when they were 19and met their husband, right?
So, not even remotely the samemessaging, not even remotely the
(28:43):
same website, and people I hateto break it to you, also not the
same colors or fonts.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Right.
And can you remember, Melissa,the disappointment that came
with after all the time andenergy and potential money that
you poured into that first brandand the website, and it's just
right.
And oh nope, I gotta move itover a teensy bent this way, and
(29:12):
then nothing worked, yes, or itevolved very quickly to the next
iteration, and and and it waslike I have I have to do this
over.
That's that feeling of like ohthe disappointment is what
usually makes coaches startstepping outside of the coaching
(29:35):
that they that they want to do.
Yeah, it it's the thing thatdisappointment that takes them
out of it.
And um, and and I just don'twant them to have to do that.
You can build a coachingbusiness and start getting your
clients without a website,totally possible.
Yeah, just go talk to people.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Yeah.
I was just doing a uh strategysession with one of the members
of the um powerful women risingbusiness growth mastermind.
Sorry, I got distracted by thecattail in my face.
Um every pet is like, does notcare that I exist until I get on
Zoom, and then all of a suddenhere they are.
Okay, thank you, ma'am.
Um and we were talking about aprogram that she wants to launch
(30:20):
that she's never done before,that she's in the very beginning
stages of, but she wants, shereally wants to have it ready to
go by May because it's a 90-daything and she wants it over by,
you know, them to be done bysummer and blah, blah, blah.
And she's talking about I needto make a sales page and a form
and this and then a welcomesequence and a this and a this.
And I said, honestly, if I wereyou this first time around, I
(30:40):
would sell it from a Googlesheet.
Yep.
And she was like, What a Google?
How dare you?
How dare you propose a Googlesheet?
But honestly, like whether youare selling from a Google sheet
or a beautiful sales page is notgood, what's gonna make the
difference between whethersomeone signs up for your
program or not at this stage.
(31:02):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
And they don't think they don't care.
No, they just right, yeah.
I for and I remember like Istarted, I've been a small
business owner for 25 years.
I have a collection of businesscards because I've built over
five different businesses thatto profitability, and I've built
a few more that were notprofitable.
And man, back in the day, wewere I was doing business before
(31:26):
the internet existed, and youwould you'd go to the stationery
store and you'd pick your yourcard stock for your business
card, and you'd pick the littleicon, the color of ink and the
fonts.
But when you had that businesscard, that's when you felt
briefly like you were inbusiness.
The website has become thepseudo business card to that
(31:50):
back, you know, like, and we allgiggle like thinking about that
and how proud I was of mybusiness cards.
Um, they they didn't, thatwasn't the thing that got me
business.
I had to go like smile and dialor go knock some doors or go
figure out, you know, some otherthings or network, but somehow
(32:13):
get in front of people.
My business cards didn't closeany deals.
And our websites are interestingtools, and especially once we
understand what we uniquely doand we understand how to talk
about it, and we've gotten acouple of clients and we've had
those awkward salesconversations.
Now it's like, oh yeah, yeah,I'm gonna make that website work
(32:34):
for me.
But I worked with a coach, um,Wendy Herman of Green Table
Consulting.
She set herself up with aone-page Hi, I'm Wendy Green
Table Consulting.
We stand for um personal growthis professional development.
(32:55):
I don't know that it said muchmore than that, and it said
contact Wendy, and that was itfor about a year and a half, and
she used that until about fourmonths before um she left her
corporate career or cut down hercorporate career considerably,
(33:16):
um, because she wanted to, shewas already getting clients, not
because her website was perfect,beautiful, and she had a great
funnel.
Not even because she was usingLinkedIn effectively, but
because she was havingconversations with people.
She knew what she stood for, sheknew what she wanted to do.
Then she and I worked togetherand we expanded her brand, we
(33:38):
created that website, we dialedin her messaging, we discovered
a few, a couple of passionelements of hers and a couple of
projects she didn't know she wasgoing to be working on.
But I was like, oh, that's gold.
Like, that's the book, friend.
And uh, I'm pretty sure she'spretty close to launching that
(33:58):
book now, too.
So you don't have to do it withlike just don't waste the energy
and the emotional cost of allthat time, and then it doesn't
work like you expected it to do,which is bringing all your
clients for you.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Because all these things thatwe're talking about are
valuable, all these things thatwe're talking about have a
place, right?
Coaches obviously are important.
We're not saying every coach outthere is great at marketing and
they're terrible at coaching.
There are amazing coaches outthere, and I've worked with
many, I know you've worked withmany.
Uh, websites are important,right?
(34:41):
All these things are important.
It's just figuring out this,like you said at the very
beginning of this, it's findingyour unique type, it's finding
your sweet spot, whatever yourlittle Batman umbrella is, yep.
And really living into that andgrowing your business into that
rather than going backwards andsaying, Oh, well, I have this
(35:03):
website or I have this likeideal client avatar that I
created with Sally thestrategist.
And so now I have to fit myselfinto that website and that
client avatar.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
Exactly.
And that's why most of myclients, we don't even start
with me selling them one of myfull marketing packages.
Most of my clients, we startwith what I call my CSI call, my
clarity strategy impact,90-minute call.
Because we can get that clarityaround what you uniquely do.
(35:38):
And in the marketing package,when I'm working with them
weekly, uh, we get more and moreclear.
But we can in that CSI clear, wecan get the clarity on what it
what it is, we can get thestrategy behind.
Oh, you want to do it this way.
Here's a couple of ideas, andthey can start creating that
(36:00):
impact and income.
Maybe that's what the I shouldstand for.
Clarity strategy, income.
I think I like that better.
Um wait, I have to change mywebsite.
Um, but um, but yeah, they canthey can start at the beginning,
even if they're starting over atthe beginning, but it's enough
(36:24):
to get them going in the rightdirection to create a few
clients, which creates income,which pays some bills, but also
can pay for some additionalmarketing.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
So you mentioned a couple of times your endotype
quiz.
Tell us a little bit about thatbecause I'm gonna link that in
the show notes.
I was actually looking before wegot on this call for the email
that had my results in it, and Icouldn't find it, but I did find
an email that I sent to youafter I took it.
And I was like, I just want youto know this was scarily
accurate.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I love those emails.
The one that I like better iswhat I get F you.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know you forknowing these things about my
about me.
Um, yeah.
So my endotype quiz, it's forquestion assessment, which a lot
of times people are like, okay.
You know, like it's gonna tellme something like, oh, I'm I'm a
(37:18):
disc S supporter.
Um, no.
We have dialed in the quiz anddialed in the questions really,
really carefully andthoughtfully.
And what it does is it gives usa behind-the-scenes look at not
only how you think, which iswhat a lot of the questions are
based on, but around the parts,um, internal family system, the
(37:43):
parts work, what's your youngchild connected to?
What do they crave?
What does your judgmental parentvoice inside your head sound
like?
We know all of that, as well aswhat your hero's journey is,
what your genius superpower is,all based on those four
questions.
We know what you're connectedto.
When you get your profileresults, most of the time people
(38:06):
are a little um upset with mebecause the first word of your
profile type.
Um, so if I remember correctly,Melissa, you're a lost pituitary
intuitive.
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
That sounds right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
And the first word lost, oh, what are you talking
about?
Um, there's one that's calledangry, there's one that's called
stubborn.
Um, that first word though, it'snot a descriptor of you, it is
your red flag word.
So for people who like myself,um, I'm the lonely or I'm sorry,
(38:41):
the lonely adrenal interpreter.
When I start having thisexperience of lonely, not
because I'm alone, not because Iam lonely, but this experience
inside that I can identify as,oh, lonely, got it.
That's my red flag that oh, I'mfeeling this.
(39:04):
I need to slow down before Istart making really crap choices
in my life.
That's our red flag word.
The second word is the um the uhuh either endocrine gland or
your nervous system, whateveryou're most closely attached to
that most closely runs yourbody.
So for you, it's that pituitarygland.
And the last word is your uniquetitle.
(39:26):
So I usually just call them bythe last word.
So you're an intuitive, I'm aninterpreter.
Um, but that comes with somemeaning behind it also, and you
get all that information as wellas a whole bunch more of what we
know about you when you take thequiz and you get your profile,
but know that all thatinformation in your profile, oh,
(39:47):
tip of the iceberg of what iswhat the endotype formula shows
us, and from there it predictsour brand type and it predicts
our ideal clients and itpredicts so much stuff about us
as an individual, but also as abusiness owner.
Yeah, it's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
You also have a course that is awesome and I
love it, and you are giftingthat to our listeners.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
Yeah.
So my course that I created umis right, and and you would love
it because it's all aboutgetting those right two
sentences that actuallydescribes your work.
We've all been at networkingmeetings before, um, and we
start introducing ourselves andgo through the Zoom room or go
around the room, and the firstcoach stands up and says, I work
(40:35):
with middle-aged women and Iempower them to set boundaries.
And the next coach stands up andsays, I work with women who lack
confidence and need to be ableto set boundaries, who are
middle life and high achieving.
And the next coach stands up andsays, right?
I'm I work with amazing,successful women business
owners, and they're all sayinglike the same dang thing.
(40:59):
And the ideal clients that aresitting in that room that need
coaching right now, they stoppedlistening three coaches ago
because they they don't knowwhat you guys do.
So um, I'm I'm I'm spoiling it,but the course is called Why No
One Gets What You Do.
And it's because we're usingbuzzwords, because we're not
(41:20):
basing it on um what we reallyuniquely do, and because we're
not using what my mom calls realhuman words.
She and I were watching acommercial one time, and a
coachy coach was like, Hey, fam,I'm manifesting abundance here
and really grounding in nature.
And I giggled and I was like,ha, that's a coach.
(41:41):
And she was like, How do youknow that's a coach?
And I was like, That's coachlanguage.
And she said, Laura, thosearen't real human words.
She is not wrong.
Uh, so it's uh it takes youthrough the process of
investigating and exploring whatyou uniquely do, utilizes the
(42:03):
endotype formula, utilizes somegreat questions to put together
a clear statement of what you doas a coach, and then break that
down into kind of a two-sentencesummary that you can use as your
what I do statement.
You can find it over on mywebsite, we'll get you a link.
And then when you go to pay,normally, so if I take people
(42:25):
through the process myself, Icharge upwards of$900 for it
because it's a very deliberateprocess.
The course itself is$349, butfor listeners of your podcast,
use the code podcast and theyget it for free.
unknown (42:43):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (42:43):
That's so cool.
Thank you so much.
I will put that info in the shownotes.
Uh, if people want to know moreabout what you do, if they want
to connect with you further,what's the best way for them to
do that?
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
Yeah, so if they want to know what I do because
they want to know, right?
They they might be interested init.
Ravingcoaches.com is my website.
If they just want to, if they'rea coach and they want more
information, they want to learnmore, they want to hear more
about the endotype, or they justwant a little tune up each week,
my podcast, which is availableover on Apple and Spotify and
(43:18):
iHeartRadio, all the places,Raving Coaches, is a great place
where each week we talk aboutthe business of coaching with a
coach.
So not only do you get to hearwhat other coaches are doing out
there in the world, which right,we all geek out about, but we
also then investigate what'sworking for them in business and
(43:38):
what's not.
Um, so we get to learn and gleanhelpful hints that may or may
not work for us, but at least weknow that they exist.
SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yeah, it's such a good podcast.
I love it.
There are there are very fewwith my short attention span
that I can sit all the waythrough, but yours is one of
them.
I love it.
It's so good.
Okay, I will put all those linksin the show notes.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing with us.
I knew this would be a goodconversation because you and I
are so in alignment on all thethings and you're just so, so
(44:11):
smart.
SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Thanks for being here.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
I loved spending the time with you.
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