March 2, 2026 • 24 mins
Nat and Kristen dig into the growing habit of self-diagnosing every uncomfortable feeling - from 'I'm nervous about this event' becoming 'I have social anxiety' to the ADHD label being casually dropped with zero diagnosis in sight. They're not here to dismiss real mental health struggles (big caveat, they make it very clear), but they do want to talk about what happens when discomfort gets a clinical name, kids get excused from exams because the classroom changed, and your entire personality becomes a list of conditions. Turns out labels aren't neutral - and the ones we fling at ourselves might be doing more harm than good!
Loved it? Share it and leave us a 5-star review! Got a topic for us? Email hello@powrsuit.com. Follow Powrsuit on LinkedIn and Instagram, or join us at www.powrsuit.com for bite-sized professional development that actually fits into your week. 'Til next time, Powrsuiters!
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:38):
We have a keynote that we give quite regularly actually, about
syndroming women and all the different things, the labels or
the syndromes we apply to women when we behave out of character
or the perceived character or wedo not meet expectations,
(00:58):
gendered expectations of how we should behave.
And there are some really fascinating ones.
We cycle through them. You should book us to do this
keynote. It's amazing.
It's things like bicycle face, Princess syndrome, rushing woman
syndrome, imposter syndrome. There's so many, so many.
And it's a very interesting, wild history of how we label
women as the problem. So what we thought we would do
(01:21):
though today is maybe talk a little bit about how sometimes
we frame ourselves as the problem.
Yeah, well, we had. We've kind of gone through this
history of syndroming and calledit the really popular ones.
But I think what we're trying toget to is that, yes, society is
trying to slap a label on us, but often we accept the label
(01:41):
and apply it to ourselves as well.
And what we've noticed is a realshift in society about, I'm
going to use this word because we'll start with this and then
we'll move into kind of this next idea that that you're
talking about. What it got us thinking about
pathologizing kind of everyday life, like the fact that we are
syndroming ourselves when we have a feeling of nerves.
(02:02):
And we've done a podcast episodeon this.
I wish I could call it out. I used to be able to.
I mean, we're going back two years now, but I will put it in
the notes on imposter syndrome and how we kind of talk a little
bit about this. It's kind of often it's
everyday. It is a very real feeling by the
way. But let's just be careful to
(02:22):
syndrome every time we feel nervous or anxious or a little
bit of a wobble or fear to syndrome ourselves.
And I think the same can be truefor pathologizing everyday life.
I watched a fascinating interview on TV the other day
that said this has really been normalized on Insta, TikTok and
in lives of teens of our children.
And I noticed this when my daughter was at high school, all
(02:42):
girls school. And it seemed like they're, they
were really happy to drop any studying or sorry, any exams,
any pressure, any intense environments, they're willing to
drop that from the curriculum and give girls a pass because of
anxiety and skyrocketing anxietyand mental health in the school.
(03:03):
And I was, I thought right to the point of the girls showed up
for a classroom, one of their exams and the classroom had to
be changed for one reason or another.
I'm not sure it was, but they had to travel from that
classroom to another side of theschool where I was a new
classroom and they had to sit this exam.
Well, they were invited to retake the exam because of the
(03:24):
stress of the changed classroom had put on the girls.
And I just looked at my daughterand I said, you know, this isn't
real life though, right? Like when you get outside
school, you know, that we do notcater to every time there is a
little bit of hardship or stressor increased pressure when it
comes to, I don't know, being graded or having to succeed or
(03:45):
exceed, you know, whatever it is.
And yeah, I was really, I reallystruggled with it.
As a caveat, I do want to say we're not here to minimize real
mental health struggles. Those are real.
Those are serious. So put that aside please, and
just let us dig into what very healthy people are describing
themselves as having again a a clinical diagnosis when what
(04:11):
they are having are symptoms of real and everyday feelings.
Yes, yes. And I agree with you, there is
some very serious and I suppose it's the double edged sword and
this is always the case when we have done the great work of
normalizing, looking out for ourmental health, really
recognizing some of the very real challenges that people
(04:32):
face. All of that is amazing.
Sometimes what happens as we go to the extreme where we start to
then assume everything that happens, this is something like
that and then we create that reality for ourselves.
So I feel like, you know, I'm nervous to go to an event.
I've I've, I feel like this is 1.
I hear a lot. Couple of years ago you'd be
(04:52):
nervous to go to event. Now I suffer social anxiety.
It's like it's become an identity rather than I'm nervous
about going to an event. Like I don't know what social
anxiety is. I haven't looked up the clinical
definition. I'm not even sure if most people
who say they have it have got a diagnosis.
I'm not even sure if it is a diagnosable thing.
But it is a label we are very quick to slap on ourselves when
(05:15):
we feel nervous about turning upat something.
Which in my opinion, my entire life I felt nervous about
turning up at things. And I feel like the reason we
care is not to belittle or to say that, you know, you're silly
if you do this. It's just that we know the power
of the stories we tell ourselves.
(05:36):
And if I tell myself that I haveanxiety, social anxiety, some of
the other things that you hear alot is even not even
pathologizing, but like, you know, I'm terrible at this.
I'm under confident. I, I can't handle this.
Oh, look at me with my ADHD behaviour again, not diagnosed
and not even properly really thought through and, and even
(06:01):
without, you know, spending the fortune, and I do recognize it
takes a fortune to get a diagnosis.
But really investigating and researching and thinking through
what how it might play out, justsort of slapping on the label.
You are telling yourself things about who you are in a way that
can actually really limit yourself.
We're yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I felt the
schools and institutions are doing.
(06:22):
They're playing a really a role here in limiting our children
who are going into an incredibly, I know they're
trying to protect them and they're placing frameworks
around. Again, some really serious
issues. But people like my daughter are
starting to get were at the timeusing this terminology, which I
think does a couple things. Number one, it's limiting her in
(06:42):
terms of her feeling uncomfortable.
And I remember at one point, andthis is very common for her age
group, not wanting to make a phone call when it was something
that she was fully invested in. Like it wasn't my job to make a
phone call around. I can't even remember what it
was. Probably checking if her shoes
or, you know, that she'd orderedwere in as an example.
And she kind of chalked up to, oh, well, you know, 'cause I
have social anxiety. And I thought, whoa, whoa, whoa,
(07:04):
whoa, whoa, hang on a SEC. Again, this was something that
was probably normalized for her at school and within her friend
group. Not only does it do disservice
and limits her and her communication skills and what is
a a skill that she should be using and thankfully does now,
but equally it does a disserviceto those that genuinely do have
social anxiety because now she gets put into a you know, she,
(07:27):
she's, I just think it's really.It's just labeled frequently
when someone really struggles. Actually does and needs to go to
therapy for that. So yeah, that that's something
that I just thought, oh, we've, we've gone a little bit too far
into that realm and we've reallynormalized uncomfortable
feelings, get a diagnosis and it's not helpful.
And it's also, I think the finalthing that it does, which is why
(07:50):
I think it limits us, is that what it tells us is that if I'm
feeling uncomfortable, that means there's something wrong
with me. And so like that example of the
phone call is it's probably an uncomfortable phone call.
You're putting yourself out there.
You're taking a risk. That is exactly how you should
feel going into that phone call.But it's almost like the, the
(08:11):
way we use this language now and, and so flippantly as if you
are feeling discomfort before the phone call, that means
you're suffering from something because everyone else doesn't
feel. Everyone else feels perfectly
comfortable doing that phone call.
And I, and I feel like, and I remember having this
conversation and I didn't use the word social anxiety, but I
said I, I get nervous networkingand I hate it.
And someone looked at me and said, you know, basically
(08:33):
everyone hates it, right? Like everyone finds it nerve
wracking and, and no, in my head, I'd assumed that most
people love it and that I was unique.
And just having that correction was really helpful and going, Oh
yeah, this should feel uncomfortable.
It feels uncomfortable for most people.
That discomfort is perfectly normal.
Go on and get it done. And actually it lowered some
barriers to participation because I was like, well, I'm
(08:55):
surrounded by other people who feel equally as nervous, so I
can talk to them and they'll be delighted.
Yeah, I think that's so true. Is that the we're introducing?
I think it's we're introducing that, but equally we're not
developing resilience. So we're, so we're kind of
saying, oh, we are atypical fromthe population and therefore
(09:16):
there's something wrong with us.But equally we aren't growing.
We aren't growing in resilience and grit.
And I suspect that's, you know, there's a lot of chatter about
that as well. I know again, they are far more
complicated generation that is growing up in a, you know, very
complicated digital life and anda world of uncertainty.
But I do think that she used it as an excuse to get out out of
(09:40):
something that would have grown her.
And I've been thinking about this a little bit because I've
been wondering, first of all, watching the Olympics and, and
watching these people that hurt.And I used to hurt as a young
kid, you know, I'd, I'd know howto hurt in races and exercise
and, and watching these people collapse across the finishing
line. And I'm like, I wonder why I
strive to have a life of comfort.
(10:01):
And I think because that we do, we do want a comfortable life.
We don't want to hurt. But what I've been doing is
going to boot camp and working alittle bit with like a personal
trainer as as part of this. And he is making me hurt and to
get into that world of being uncomfortable again is helping
me feel stronger. And it actually is.
(10:23):
And it's helping me to be stronger.
And I've just thought of that asa isn't that interesting that
I'm seeking comfort in my life and it's taken someone to
reintroduce me to a little bit of pain in order to grow and to
get stronger. So anyway, just thought I'd no.
I agree with you and I think it's something I was thinking
about this at treating last night because I was just like, I
(10:43):
have these three day migraines. I'm getting them sorted,
hopefully feels like we're getting under control, but I was
exhausted, like my arms didn't want to move.
I I didn't like I was like, oh, and but I think probably we were
raised in somewhat similar ways.I came from a military family.
Giving up is not an option. So like I've like got my white
belt on and I'm like, I'm feeling exhausted, but like, I
(11:05):
can do it. This is just discomfort that I
can push through, which of course, I've probably gone to
the extreme with that sometimes where I'm pulling back a bit.
But there is something kind of nice about recognizing your
limits, but also recognizing that emotions are really normal
and discomfort is really normal.And of course, we're wired to
not want it because for most of history, our whole lives were
(11:27):
deeply uncomfortable. And so I just, yeah, I feel like
for this conversation and like we're sort of, you know,
wandering all over the show, there is just something about
almost being more intentional with the language we use.
For those reasons, we said to berespectful to other people, to
not race to the bottom and to not assume that feeling
(11:50):
uncomfortable makes us a problem.
It's that we actually can just embrace discomfort, but also to
your point, because that's wherewe grow.
And so sort of saying I can't doit because I have a problem with
it means that we don't, we give ourselves permission not to feel
the discomfort. And again, like I, I don't want
(12:10):
to keep repeating this, but likewe are very aware that we are
talking about people slapping onlabels, not people who have
serious mental health conditionslike.
No, because, and, and to be fair, we wouldn't be talking
about this if this wasn't now well researched.
And actually there's a growing concern about this being a, a
real social, you know, real, we're socializing this now.
(12:30):
So I think it's OK to, to call this out.
And you'd mentioned this term race to the bottom earlier.
And it got me curious as to whatthat actually meant.
And I did a little bit of research and I found this really
interesting article. I'm going to read a paragraph
from it, but there's a growing concern that people are not only
doing it to, I suppose, a limit their growth because they're
feeling a very natural feeling, but they're wearing these
(12:53):
symptoms, these diagnosis with pride and almost using it as a
form of identity, which is really interesting.
So this is from a medical article and they've done some
macro research related to this. And at one part of it's really
interesting, it says the cultureof diagnosis.
We've created a culture where having diagnosis is not only
(13:15):
accepted but celebrated. Mental health awareness
campaigns, while well-intentioned, again this is
someones perspective off the back of research have had
unintended consequences. We've made psychiatric labels
fashionable. Teens now compete over who has
more diagnosis. Adults introduce themselves by
their conditions as someone withanxiety has become a common
(13:37):
sentence opener, as if the labelgrants automatic credibility on
any topic related to stress or discomfort.
When a diagnosis becomes a defining characteristic rather
than a description of symptoms, the person disappears behind the
label. I think they've put it way
better than exactly what we're trying to say, but way better.
(13:58):
And I think this is yeah, that that I think this is the
challenge that we have with this, is that I think humans,
the way we're all social creatures and a shortcut to
understanding who someone is, istheir life experiences and what
they've been through. And I think the Olympics is a
great example of this, of like when you see an Olympian on the
(14:21):
gold medal stand, they are telling you the struggle that
they have gone through in order to achieve at that level.
And you know something about them.
And almost what's happened is weknow these mental health
conditions are very closely correlated with struggle.
When you have a genuine mental health condition, you have been
(14:42):
through the ringer. And so being able to say to put
that label on you're effectivelyshort circumventing and going.
I've also done it. So I've now built, I've built
credibility. I've told yeah, almost what you
almost are saying. It's a shortcut for saying for
credibility in an area, but it'sit's not the same thing.
(15:03):
And it's just, you know, humans love to.
It's how we it's how we interact.
It's how we show who we are. And it's just that it's now
become so widespread that, yeah,it's a we use it as a way of
going. I am this.
And thus you need to take me seriously.
You need to. This is how I understand who I
am. And I think that what did you
say? The person disappears behind it.
It's so true. There are so many people I know
(15:25):
loosely these days who all I know about them is the mental
health or the labels they've puton themselves.
Like it's the first thing I hear.
It's the only thing I hear. Like I don't know what they're
interested in, what their hobbies are.
I know so much about all their diagnosis and that's it.
And I find that really sad because they are more than that.
(15:45):
Even if they haven't had a diagnosis, quite often they
haven't even had one. Well, in many, you know, as, as
we look at a number of these mental health diagnosis, they're
actually an absence of somethingelse and or their description of
symptoms. So, so that is why it is such a
broad spectrum because it is generally a description of
symptoms that they can say with some level of confidence they
(16:08):
can give you a diagnosis. And the problem with describing
yourself as a description of symptoms is it then becomes the
label. And that's what we introduced up
top is like you're labeling yourself with a syndrome.
And I think we're doing it the same thing here.
You know what a couple, 100 years later is that it's we are
labeling ourselves as something core to our being and our
(16:30):
personality when actually we arenavigating the world.
Some of us with the description of symptoms for some of us and
therefore have to act accordingly and care for
ourselves accordingly. But then for others, it is
impeding all sorts of things which I think we've already
talked about and raised. And the interesting thing about
this is never in history has there been such social
(16:50):
contagion, especially among teengirls.
They're seeing it like, not onlyare these labels being
highlighted and amplified, but language around it is, is
spreading as well. And that's why I think I've, I
did call my daughter a few timeson it and kind of just thought,
oh, this is that that's a clinical thing.
And if you think you have that, let's go and get that sorted to
(17:11):
it. You know, she stopped
immediately, but I just think it's yeah, it's so interesting.
And and I think that is the collective race to the bottom.
I think we've called out that how are you busy?
You know, we're celebrating thisbusy and stressed and burnout
culture. Oh, and then I burnt, you know,
burnout, burnout. And yes, we do get there and
yes, we are doing too much and yes, expectations are too high
(17:32):
on women. This is actually about are we
celebrating that and are we leading with that?
Because then where does it lead us?
Yeah, I. Feel like that's the ultimately
culturally that's where it goes because I I think it is
predominantly women doing it. Like, it'd be interesting to
know I probably have too much ofA bubble, but if you have a
(17:53):
whole 51% of the population who is more inclined to talk about
social anxiety being chaotic, being disorganized, you know, I
feel like I hear this a lot. And again, this is from people
without a diagnosis. My ADHD brain means I'm terrible
at this. And I'm like, are you or have
you just never tried it? Or like because you don't have a
(18:15):
diagnosis, so you've just like literally shut off a whole thing
and told yourself you can't do it because of something that the
people I know who have ADHD diagnosis are actively working
on how they can still manage that in their life and do that
in their life. And yeah, so it's almost, I
think it is the celebration and the excuse and the feeling like
(18:38):
I can not do it or that there's something different about me.
And that's probably another thing with humanity.
We are living in an era where it's so noisy and we are
watching people online and we'reso influenced by this noise and
all these people living their best lives online.
And humans crave the sense of identity and being different and
(18:58):
being loved and, and having our tribes.
And it almost feels like this isnow become a way of going.
I am this and here's my tribe. This is like, na na, you're
actually great and you've got like so many things that are
interesting about you that this should be the least interesting
thing about you, not the most. I think what you're calling out
is that that labels are not neutral.
(19:20):
And we display that in this talkof like, these are not neutral
labels. They mean something and they are
not benefiting women. They're not putting us at
advantage. The structural problems around
us should be the focus or the unfair expectations or the what,
you know, whatever it is that's causing us to be uncomfortable.
(19:41):
Again, assuming those that do not have mental health issues
or, or real diagnosis. So the labels that we're putting
ourselves that are not neutral are in fact harming us.
They're not allowing us to grow or take a step forward.
And so I just, I wanted to be just really clear on that, that
when we fling them about, we aredoing ourselves a disservice
(20:02):
rather than shining a light. On the environment around us,
you know, the frameworks around us and being able to positively
navigate through those and change them, change the
environment as opposed to sayingwe're the ones that have the
problem and how to change. Yeah, yeah, and, and, and shout
out to all the incredible peoplewe know who are getting
(20:23):
diagnosis, diagnosis in their 40s.
We know that traditionally womenhave been tragically
underdiagnosed when it comes to things like ASD and ADHD and
various things that were only really studied on men and boys
and, and there's criminal negligence in the healthcare
sector that has led to those diagnosis.
(20:45):
And I think that's probably why women, a good leading indicator
of why women are maybe more interested in this, because
there hasn't traditionally been an understanding of the symptoms
and we're only just starting to recognize that it plays out
quite differently. And that and I just hugely
applaud people who go and find out more about their brains and,
(21:08):
and are doing the utmost for themselves and their children to
and the support that they want and that they need and deserve.
And so this is just for the restof us who and I and, and none of
us at this stage surely believe that there's such a thing as
neurotypical, like our brains are all wired so differently.
But slapping on a label when youdon't need to slap on a label
(21:30):
when you could just focus on theon the feeling you're feeling it
does have it does have consequences for a lot of.
Things well said. Hear, hear.
Thank you everyone for listeningyet again to our to our, you
know, chatter. We'd love your thoughts too.
This is a good one because I feel like this is something sort
(21:52):
of like managing generational teams.
This is a phenomenon that feels like it probably does impact a
lot of people. And there are people like I've
even heard of workplaces now andI think this is brilliant, who
have mental health advocates. I think their names are and they
are appointed or volunteers in an organization where people who
are feeling different things cango to them.
(22:13):
And I feel like all of these initiatives are amazing.
And then I think about my reality is when I go to a
colleague about that without knowing that they have, you
know, like it's, I feel like a lot of these things we're so
early stage and figuring out howthey all work and whether or not
they work that I think these areimportant conversations to have.
And really again, honing in on no stigma for any different
(22:35):
brain wiring or into health issues, those are genuine and
they are important to get support for.
And we should be able to have these conversations around how
do we talk about these things and normalize or unnormalized
slapping on labels on ourselves.Yeah.
Well, I, I mean, I do think it can happen at home and in our
(22:56):
schools and institutions. I really do.
We've got it. We've got to find the balance, I
suppose. We've got to provide those
places and structures in place for those that need the support.
And then we have to still createenvironments where people can
unfortunately get uncomfortable because like, really, I don't
like getting uncomfortable, but like, we need to do it.
So. Oh yes.
And I actually would equally love to hear from anyone who
(23:18):
strongly disagrees with us and just think because, you know,
we're in our 40s, we might be like old and outdated in these
ideas. Like this may be something that
you feel really strongly that the consequences of
unnormalizing slightly on labelsactually has a really profound
impact on how the progress we'vemade on mental health.
Like tell us, I'd love to know that and and we will have
(23:41):
another conversation on a futurepod about what we've learned as
a result. Dear thanks everyone.
Check out Hello at parasite.com.Drop us a line if you want us to
chat or dig into anything. We'd be happy to do that and
we'll catch you all next time. Bye.
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:38):
We have a keynote that we give quite regularly actually, about
syndroming women and all the different things, the labels or
the syndromes we apply to women when we behave out of character
or the perceived character or wedo not meet expectations,
(00:58):
gendered expectations of how we should behave.
And there are some really fascinating ones.
We cycle through them. You should book us to do this
keynote. It's amazing.
It's things like bicycle face, Princess syndrome, rushing woman
syndrome, imposter syndrome. There's so many, so many.
And it's a very interesting, wild history of how we label
women as the problem. So what we thought we would do
(01:21):
though today is maybe talk a little bit about how sometimes
we frame ourselves as the problem.
Yeah, well, we had. We've kind of gone through this
history of syndroming and calledit the really popular ones.
But I think what we're trying toget to is that, yes, society is
trying to slap a label on us, but often we accept the label
(01:41):
and apply it to ourselves as well.
And what we've noticed is a realshift in society about, I'm
going to use this word because we'll start with this and then
we'll move into kind of this next idea that that you're
talking about. What it got us thinking about
pathologizing kind of everyday life, like the fact that we are
syndroming ourselves when we have a feeling of nerves.
(02:02):
And we've done a podcast episodeon this.
I wish I could call it out. I used to be able to.
I mean, we're going back two years now, but I will put it in
the notes on imposter syndrome and how we kind of talk a little
bit about this. It's kind of often it's
everyday. It is a very real feeling by the
way. But let's just be careful to
(02:22):
syndrome every time we feel nervous or anxious or a little
bit of a wobble or fear to syndrome ourselves.
And I think the same can be truefor pathologizing everyday life.
I watched a fascinating interview on TV the other day
that said this has really been normalized on Insta, TikTok and
in lives of teens of our children.
And I noticed this when my daughter was at high school, all
(02:42):
girls school. And it seemed like they're, they
were really happy to drop any studying or sorry, any exams,
any pressure, any intense environments, they're willing to
drop that from the curriculum and give girls a pass because of
anxiety and skyrocketing anxietyand mental health in the school.
(03:03):
And I was, I thought right to the point of the girls showed up
for a classroom, one of their exams and the classroom had to
be changed for one reason or another.
I'm not sure it was, but they had to travel from that
classroom to another side of theschool where I was a new
classroom and they had to sit this exam.
Well, they were invited to retake the exam because of the
(03:24):
stress of the changed classroom had put on the girls.
And I just looked at my daughterand I said, you know, this isn't
real life though, right? Like when you get outside
school, you know, that we do notcater to every time there is a
little bit of hardship or stressor increased pressure when it
comes to, I don't know, being graded or having to succeed or
(03:45):
exceed, you know, whatever it is.
And yeah, I was really, I reallystruggled with it.
As a caveat, I do want to say we're not here to minimize real
mental health struggles. Those are real.
Those are serious. So put that aside please, and
just let us dig into what very healthy people are describing
themselves as having again a a clinical diagnosis when what
(04:11):
they are having are symptoms of real and everyday feelings.
Yes, yes. And I agree with you, there is
some very serious and I suppose it's the double edged sword and
this is always the case when we have done the great work of
normalizing, looking out for ourmental health, really
recognizing some of the very real challenges that people
(04:32):
face. All of that is amazing.
Sometimes what happens as we go to the extreme where we start to
then assume everything that happens, this is something like
that and then we create that reality for ourselves.
So I feel like, you know, I'm nervous to go to an event.
I've I've, I feel like this is 1.
I hear a lot. Couple of years ago you'd be
(04:52):
nervous to go to event. Now I suffer social anxiety.
It's like it's become an identity rather than I'm nervous
about going to an event. Like I don't know what social
anxiety is. I haven't looked up the clinical
definition. I'm not even sure if most people
who say they have it have got a diagnosis.
I'm not even sure if it is a diagnosable thing.
But it is a label we are very quick to slap on ourselves when
(05:15):
we feel nervous about turning upat something.
Which in my opinion, my entire life I felt nervous about
turning up at things. And I feel like the reason we
care is not to belittle or to say that, you know, you're silly
if you do this. It's just that we know the power
of the stories we tell ourselves.
(05:36):
And if I tell myself that I haveanxiety, social anxiety, some of
the other things that you hear alot is even not even
pathologizing, but like, you know, I'm terrible at this.
I'm under confident. I, I can't handle this.
Oh, look at me with my ADHD behaviour again, not diagnosed
and not even properly really thought through and, and even
(06:01):
without, you know, spending the fortune, and I do recognize it
takes a fortune to get a diagnosis.
But really investigating and researching and thinking through
what how it might play out, justsort of slapping on the label.
You are telling yourself things about who you are in a way that
can actually really limit yourself.
We're yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I felt the
schools and institutions are doing.
(06:22):
They're playing a really a role here in limiting our children
who are going into an incredibly, I know they're
trying to protect them and they're placing frameworks
around. Again, some really serious
issues. But people like my daughter are
starting to get were at the timeusing this terminology, which I
think does a couple things. Number one, it's limiting her in
(06:42):
terms of her feeling uncomfortable.
And I remember at one point, andthis is very common for her age
group, not wanting to make a phone call when it was something
that she was fully invested in. Like it wasn't my job to make a
phone call around. I can't even remember what it
was. Probably checking if her shoes
or, you know, that she'd orderedwere in as an example.
And she kind of chalked up to, oh, well, you know, 'cause I
have social anxiety. And I thought, whoa, whoa, whoa,
(07:04):
whoa, whoa, hang on a SEC. Again, this was something that
was probably normalized for her at school and within her friend
group. Not only does it do disservice
and limits her and her communication skills and what is
a a skill that she should be using and thankfully does now,
but equally it does a disserviceto those that genuinely do have
social anxiety because now she gets put into a you know, she,
(07:27):
she's, I just think it's really.It's just labeled frequently
when someone really struggles. Actually does and needs to go to
therapy for that. So yeah, that that's something
that I just thought, oh, we've, we've gone a little bit too far
into that realm and we've reallynormalized uncomfortable
feelings, get a diagnosis and it's not helpful.
And it's also, I think the finalthing that it does, which is why
(07:50):
I think it limits us, is that what it tells us is that if I'm
feeling uncomfortable, that means there's something wrong
with me. And so like that example of the
phone call is it's probably an uncomfortable phone call.
You're putting yourself out there.
You're taking a risk. That is exactly how you should
feel going into that phone call.But it's almost like the, the
(08:11):
way we use this language now and, and so flippantly as if you
are feeling discomfort before the phone call, that means
you're suffering from something because everyone else doesn't
feel. Everyone else feels perfectly
comfortable doing that phone call.
And I, and I feel like, and I remember having this
conversation and I didn't use the word social anxiety, but I
said I, I get nervous networkingand I hate it.
And someone looked at me and said, you know, basically
(08:33):
everyone hates it, right? Like everyone finds it nerve
wracking and, and no, in my head, I'd assumed that most
people love it and that I was unique.
And just having that correction was really helpful and going, Oh
yeah, this should feel uncomfortable.
It feels uncomfortable for most people.
That discomfort is perfectly normal.
Go on and get it done. And actually it lowered some
barriers to participation because I was like, well, I'm
(08:55):
surrounded by other people who feel equally as nervous, so I
can talk to them and they'll be delighted.
Yeah, I think that's so true. Is that the we're introducing?
I think it's we're introducing that, but equally we're not
developing resilience. So we're, so we're kind of
saying, oh, we are atypical fromthe population and therefore
(09:16):
there's something wrong with us.But equally we aren't growing.
We aren't growing in resilience and grit.
And I suspect that's, you know, there's a lot of chatter about
that as well. I know again, they are far more
complicated generation that is growing up in a, you know, very
complicated digital life and anda world of uncertainty.
But I do think that she used it as an excuse to get out out of
(09:40):
something that would have grown her.
And I've been thinking about this a little bit because I've
been wondering, first of all, watching the Olympics and, and
watching these people that hurt.And I used to hurt as a young
kid, you know, I'd, I'd know howto hurt in races and exercise
and, and watching these people collapse across the finishing
line. And I'm like, I wonder why I
strive to have a life of comfort.
(10:01):
And I think because that we do, we do want a comfortable life.
We don't want to hurt. But what I've been doing is
going to boot camp and working alittle bit with like a personal
trainer as as part of this. And he is making me hurt and to
get into that world of being uncomfortable again is helping
me feel stronger. And it actually is.
(10:23):
And it's helping me to be stronger.
And I've just thought of that asa isn't that interesting that
I'm seeking comfort in my life and it's taken someone to
reintroduce me to a little bit of pain in order to grow and to
get stronger. So anyway, just thought I'd no.
I agree with you and I think it's something I was thinking
about this at treating last night because I was just like, I
(10:43):
have these three day migraines. I'm getting them sorted,
hopefully feels like we're getting under control, but I was
exhausted, like my arms didn't want to move.
I I didn't like I was like, oh, and but I think probably we were
raised in somewhat similar ways.I came from a military family.
Giving up is not an option. So like I've like got my white
belt on and I'm like, I'm feeling exhausted, but like, I
(11:05):
can do it. This is just discomfort that I
can push through, which of course, I've probably gone to
the extreme with that sometimes where I'm pulling back a bit.
But there is something kind of nice about recognizing your
limits, but also recognizing that emotions are really normal
and discomfort is really normal.And of course, we're wired to
not want it because for most of history, our whole lives were
(11:27):
deeply uncomfortable. And so I just, yeah, I feel like
for this conversation and like we're sort of, you know,
wandering all over the show, there is just something about
almost being more intentional with the language we use.
For those reasons, we said to berespectful to other people, to
not race to the bottom and to not assume that feeling
(11:50):
uncomfortable makes us a problem.
It's that we actually can just embrace discomfort, but also to
your point, because that's wherewe grow.
And so sort of saying I can't doit because I have a problem with
it means that we don't, we give ourselves permission not to feel
the discomfort. And again, like I, I don't want
(12:10):
to keep repeating this, but likewe are very aware that we are
talking about people slapping onlabels, not people who have
serious mental health conditionslike.
No, because, and, and to be fair, we wouldn't be talking
about this if this wasn't now well researched.
And actually there's a growing concern about this being a, a
real social, you know, real, we're socializing this now.
(12:30):
So I think it's OK to, to call this out.
And you'd mentioned this term race to the bottom earlier.
And it got me curious as to whatthat actually meant.
And I did a little bit of research and I found this really
interesting article. I'm going to read a paragraph
from it, but there's a growing concern that people are not only
doing it to, I suppose, a limit their growth because they're
feeling a very natural feeling, but they're wearing these
(12:53):
symptoms, these diagnosis with pride and almost using it as a
form of identity, which is really interesting.
So this is from a medical article and they've done some
macro research related to this. And at one part of it's really
interesting, it says the cultureof diagnosis.
We've created a culture where having diagnosis is not only
(13:15):
accepted but celebrated. Mental health awareness
campaigns, while well-intentioned, again this is
someones perspective off the back of research have had
unintended consequences. We've made psychiatric labels
fashionable. Teens now compete over who has
more diagnosis. Adults introduce themselves by
their conditions as someone withanxiety has become a common
(13:37):
sentence opener, as if the labelgrants automatic credibility on
any topic related to stress or discomfort.
When a diagnosis becomes a defining characteristic rather
than a description of symptoms, the person disappears behind the
label. I think they've put it way
better than exactly what we're trying to say, but way better.
(13:58):
And I think this is yeah, that that I think this is the
challenge that we have with this, is that I think humans,
the way we're all social creatures and a shortcut to
understanding who someone is, istheir life experiences and what
they've been through. And I think the Olympics is a
great example of this, of like when you see an Olympian on the
(14:21):
gold medal stand, they are telling you the struggle that
they have gone through in order to achieve at that level.
And you know something about them.
And almost what's happened is weknow these mental health
conditions are very closely correlated with struggle.
When you have a genuine mental health condition, you have been
(14:42):
through the ringer. And so being able to say to put
that label on you're effectivelyshort circumventing and going.
I've also done it. So I've now built, I've built
credibility. I've told yeah, almost what you
almost are saying. It's a shortcut for saying for
credibility in an area, but it'sit's not the same thing.
(15:03):
And it's just, you know, humans love to.
It's how we it's how we interact.
It's how we show who we are. And it's just that it's now
become so widespread that, yeah,it's a we use it as a way of
going. I am this.
And thus you need to take me seriously.
You need to. This is how I understand who I
am. And I think that what did you
say? The person disappears behind it.
It's so true. There are so many people I know
(15:25):
loosely these days who all I know about them is the mental
health or the labels they've puton themselves.
Like it's the first thing I hear.
It's the only thing I hear. Like I don't know what they're
interested in, what their hobbies are.
I know so much about all their diagnosis and that's it.
And I find that really sad because they are more than that.
(15:45):
Even if they haven't had a diagnosis, quite often they
haven't even had one. Well, in many, you know, as, as
we look at a number of these mental health diagnosis, they're
actually an absence of somethingelse and or their description of
symptoms. So, so that is why it is such a
broad spectrum because it is generally a description of
symptoms that they can say with some level of confidence they
(16:08):
can give you a diagnosis. And the problem with describing
yourself as a description of symptoms is it then becomes the
label. And that's what we introduced up
top is like you're labeling yourself with a syndrome.
And I think we're doing it the same thing here.
You know what a couple, 100 years later is that it's we are
labeling ourselves as something core to our being and our
(16:30):
personality when actually we arenavigating the world.
Some of us with the description of symptoms for some of us and
therefore have to act accordingly and care for
ourselves accordingly. But then for others, it is
impeding all sorts of things which I think we've already
talked about and raised. And the interesting thing about
this is never in history has there been such social
(16:50):
contagion, especially among teengirls.
They're seeing it like, not onlyare these labels being
highlighted and amplified, but language around it is, is
spreading as well. And that's why I think I've, I
did call my daughter a few timeson it and kind of just thought,
oh, this is that that's a clinical thing.
And if you think you have that, let's go and get that sorted to
(17:11):
it. You know, she stopped
immediately, but I just think it's yeah, it's so interesting.
And and I think that is the collective race to the bottom.
I think we've called out that how are you busy?
You know, we're celebrating thisbusy and stressed and burnout
culture. Oh, and then I burnt, you know,
burnout, burnout. And yes, we do get there and
yes, we are doing too much and yes, expectations are too high
(17:32):
on women. This is actually about are we
celebrating that and are we leading with that?
Because then where does it lead us?
Yeah, I. Feel like that's the ultimately
culturally that's where it goes because I I think it is
predominantly women doing it. Like, it'd be interesting to
know I probably have too much ofA bubble, but if you have a
(17:53):
whole 51% of the population who is more inclined to talk about
social anxiety being chaotic, being disorganized, you know, I
feel like I hear this a lot. And again, this is from people
without a diagnosis. My ADHD brain means I'm terrible
at this. And I'm like, are you or have
you just never tried it? Or like because you don't have a
(18:15):
diagnosis, so you've just like literally shut off a whole thing
and told yourself you can't do it because of something that the
people I know who have ADHD diagnosis are actively working
on how they can still manage that in their life and do that
in their life. And yeah, so it's almost, I
think it is the celebration and the excuse and the feeling like
(18:38):
I can not do it or that there's something different about me.
And that's probably another thing with humanity.
We are living in an era where it's so noisy and we are
watching people online and we'reso influenced by this noise and
all these people living their best lives online.
And humans crave the sense of identity and being different and
(18:58):
being loved and, and having our tribes.
And it almost feels like this isnow become a way of going.
I am this and here's my tribe. This is like, na na, you're
actually great and you've got like so many things that are
interesting about you that this should be the least interesting
thing about you, not the most. I think what you're calling out
is that that labels are not neutral.
(19:20):
And we display that in this talkof like, these are not neutral
labels. They mean something and they are
not benefiting women. They're not putting us at
advantage. The structural problems around
us should be the focus or the unfair expectations or the what,
you know, whatever it is that's causing us to be uncomfortable.
(19:41):
Again, assuming those that do not have mental health issues
or, or real diagnosis. So the labels that we're putting
ourselves that are not neutral are in fact harming us.
They're not allowing us to grow or take a step forward.
And so I just, I wanted to be just really clear on that, that
when we fling them about, we aredoing ourselves a disservice
(20:02):
rather than shining a light. On the environment around us,
you know, the frameworks around us and being able to positively
navigate through those and change them, change the
environment as opposed to sayingwe're the ones that have the
problem and how to change. Yeah, yeah, and, and, and shout
out to all the incredible peoplewe know who are getting
(20:23):
diagnosis, diagnosis in their 40s.
We know that traditionally womenhave been tragically
underdiagnosed when it comes to things like ASD and ADHD and
various things that were only really studied on men and boys
and, and there's criminal negligence in the healthcare
sector that has led to those diagnosis.
(20:45):
And I think that's probably why women, a good leading indicator
of why women are maybe more interested in this, because
there hasn't traditionally been an understanding of the symptoms
and we're only just starting to recognize that it plays out
quite differently. And that and I just hugely
applaud people who go and find out more about their brains and,
(21:08):
and are doing the utmost for themselves and their children to
and the support that they want and that they need and deserve.
And so this is just for the restof us who and I and, and none of
us at this stage surely believe that there's such a thing as
neurotypical, like our brains are all wired so differently.
But slapping on a label when youdon't need to slap on a label
(21:30):
when you could just focus on theon the feeling you're feeling it
does have it does have consequences for a lot of.
Things well said. Hear, hear.
Thank you everyone for listeningyet again to our to our, you
know, chatter. We'd love your thoughts too.
This is a good one because I feel like this is something sort
(21:52):
of like managing generational teams.
This is a phenomenon that feels like it probably does impact a
lot of people. And there are people like I've
even heard of workplaces now andI think this is brilliant, who
have mental health advocates. I think their names are and they
are appointed or volunteers in an organization where people who
are feeling different things cango to them.
(22:13):
And I feel like all of these initiatives are amazing.
And then I think about my reality is when I go to a
colleague about that without knowing that they have, you
know, like it's, I feel like a lot of these things we're so
early stage and figuring out howthey all work and whether or not
they work that I think these areimportant conversations to have.
And really again, honing in on no stigma for any different
(22:35):
brain wiring or into health issues, those are genuine and
they are important to get support for.
And we should be able to have these conversations around how
do we talk about these things and normalize or unnormalized
slapping on labels on ourselves.Yeah.
Well, I, I mean, I do think it can happen at home and in our
(22:56):
schools and institutions. I really do.
We've got it. We've got to find the balance, I
suppose. We've got to provide those
places and structures in place for those that need the support.
And then we have to still createenvironments where people can
unfortunately get uncomfortable because like, really, I don't
like getting uncomfortable, but like, we need to do it.
So. Oh yes.
And I actually would equally love to hear from anyone who
(23:18):
strongly disagrees with us and just think because, you know,
we're in our 40s, we might be like old and outdated in these
ideas. Like this may be something that
you feel really strongly that the consequences of
unnormalizing slightly on labelsactually has a really profound
impact on how the progress we'vemade on mental health.
Like tell us, I'd love to know that and and we will have
(23:41):
another conversation on a futurepod about what we've learned as
a result. Dear thanks everyone.
Check out Hello at parasite.com.Drop us a line if you want us to
chat or dig into anything. We'd be happy to do that and
we'll catch you all next time. Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com