April 13, 2026 • 25 mins
While we recharge, we're reaching into the vault for this one - and if you've ever silently fumed about your manager, it's for you. One in two people quit because of theirs, but here's the thing: this relationship is a two-way street and there's way more you can control than you think. Nat and Kristen get into how to crack your manager's communication code, stop making assumptions, and actually take control of the dynamic. Spoiler: most managers get about 4 hours of leadership training a month, so don't wait for them to figure it out. If you missed it first time round, now's your chance. Back in one week, Powrsuiters.
Loved it? Share it and leave us a 5-star review! Got a topic for us? Email hello@powrsuit.com. Follow Powrsuit on LinkedIn and Instagram, or join us at www.powrsuit.com for bite-sized professional development that actually fits into your week. 'Til next time, Powrsuiters!
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit Subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:31):
The relationship with your manager is the most predictive
factor of job satisfaction, career progression and whether
you'll quit in the next 12 months.
We've heard this a lot. Managers are key in your
happiness. Or, I suppose, sadness.
And we also know, I think some research that I read recently is
that one and two people quit over their manager.
(00:53):
And it's such an interesting dynamic because I think one of
the things that we forget when we talk about our manager is
that that relationship, like any, is a two way St.
We're actually both responsible for the success of it.
But because of that weird power imbalance, we think it's not
weird. It is a power imbalance.
We think it's their job to make it successful and put ourselves
(01:17):
in a really passive position. It's so interesting because no
one ever teaches you how to be managed and I know that sounds
weird but it's true. Like the fact that you just said
it's a two way St. no one ever tells you do that, first of all.
And you are managed from a very early age in life where it often
tends to be hierarchical. Like you know nothing in
(01:37):
university and you're learning how to do these jobs and then
you enter the career force and you really know nothing.
Of course you bring your unique perspective, but no one ever
teaches you that you actually have power and influence and a
voice and a perspective. And this is how you might use
that in a work context. But equally, no one ever teaches
a manager how to manage. Most are promoted because
(01:58):
they're good at their previous role and I think I read a stat
where they get on average 4 hours of people leadership
training in a given month. There is a whole bunch of
research on this. We still prioritize technical
skills overall. Else, even though when you
actually ask around, the biggestchallenges people face in their
jobs and in their relationships are not technical.
(02:19):
Like, we all know how to do the work.
It's how we navigate relationships, how we influence,
how we get our voice heard, how we figure out and solve
problems. And none of that that is taught
and we instead focus on wow, they can solve this through
their technical know how. They're a good architect,
they're a good accountant, and plunk them in a role that
doesn't really need those skillsat all.
It actually needs great leadership skills.
(02:42):
So we're here to hopefully help both sides of the equation a
little bit today, just with someaha moments and learnings in our
lives and what we've picked up from our parasite community.
You're right, it is a two way street.
So what does it look like to be managed and take control of that
situation? But equally all the people
leaders that are listening make it easy.
You can also make. It easy and one of the things
(03:02):
that I've been talking to a few of our fabulous power suit
partners about is how the role of managers in power suit like
it's all fine and good for our members to be building these
self leadership skills and actually learning a lot of
skills that their managers as well have not been taught.
But if they're coming up againsta manager who hasn't learned
these skills, who doesn't see the great role of one on ones
(03:25):
giving and receiving feedback, they're uncomfortable with
having direct conversations, then that puts a lot of onus on
our members. But it also means their managers
often underestimate the power ofprofessional development because
they've never received it unlessit's to do compliance based
training or technical based training.
So they're actually not super supportive, even if they're
(03:47):
unconsciously. So they're not super supportive
of our members investing in themselves, but also applying
what they learn in the office because they don't see it as
valuable because they haven't had the opportunity opportunity
to experience it either. So I find that really
interesting that we see managersare so different from us, like
they must have got there and therefore know everything.
(04:07):
But actually, the harsh truth ofit is, if you are a power suit
member, you're probably learningskills that your manager may not
have. Yeah, Yeah.
No, I love that. And just a little last thought
that came to mind before we jumpinto a couple big aha moments is
in in managing up and how to manage up is that it is OK if
(04:28):
you never become a people leader.
It's so interesting that it's ingrained in us that you go from
being a individual contributor and you get promoted to being a
people leader. It is OK if you don't like it.
If you've done a strengths test and coaching isn't in your like
top ten skill set, nor do you want to flex that muscle and
learn how to develop people. Then like, you don't have to do
(04:48):
it, but you can have a crazy successful career without being
a people leader. And I just think it's OK to not
want to be it and to not be it. But it's funny how we just
assume that's the latter. Well, and that's why we have so
many managers getting power suitors in a pickle.
The managers don't see their role as looking after people.
They see people with sort of an inconvenient addition because
(05:11):
they've become a people leader, because it's the next step up
the hierarchy, not because they had this real passion for
leading and developing and helping the people below them
get successful. And it's a really interesting
light bulb moment, I think for alot of people who get into these
roles that they suddenly go, oh,I don't like this part of the
role. And it's like, Yep, great.
(05:31):
Well, there's a lot of other options out there.
And sadly we still live in a world where technical skills and
staying purely in a technical role is not always rewarded as
much as people leadership. But it does feel like,
especially in innovative companies, we are heading there
and starting to recognize there is no point putting a square peg
into a round hole. And my brain flip-flopped on one
(05:53):
thing you said. Would be keen to hear your
thoughts if you don't want to yet.
Lead and coach and and help others perform.
I think sometimes what happens is one, organizations don't set
managers up to succeed because their delivery expectations of
them are crazy in addition to managing a team.
So that could be a scenario. Another scenario could be the
person never learns how to go. We have to deliver this stuff as
(06:16):
a team. So I'm going to delegate and and
all of that stuff as well. So I think there's a few things
playing out, but another podcast.
Absolutely. And I think all of this to say
that we're not saying here managers are perfect and it's
all on you. What we're saying is reality of
the world is there is a bunch offactors that probably mean
(06:36):
whoever is your boss is probablya, hasn't been set up for
success. B has probably formed some bad
habits as a result, and May and and C just probably doesn't know
some of the skills that you willbe learning through even
listening to this podcast. So that doesn't mean that you
are completely in the right all the time because dynamics are
(06:58):
dynamics. But it doesn't.
But we're not saying here it's all on you.
We are saying you can take more control over this dynamic though
than many of us realize. So my first kind of mindset
shift and point is that neither of you, you or your manager can
succeed without the other. And I think that's a really
important realization in that your manager needs you to
(07:19):
succeed in order for them to succeed.
And and therefore they have power over your daily experience
and what you do, but you have power over their success.
It is very much a two way St. Yeah, and seeing yourself as a
team is really importantly, I don't think people tend to think
of themselves as a team with their manager.
(07:40):
And that idea of success is really interesting because
sometimes we forget that successlooks very different to
different people. Your idea of success might be
landing your next role, it mightbe delivering a project, might
be whatever is top of mind for you and for them success could
look very different. So getting clear, and this is a
really easy action to take, asking your manager what success
(08:03):
looks like for them. Most people don't do that, but
if you were to ask them every month, what does success look
like for you this month? How do I better help you get to
that success? You may find that the reason
there's complications in your dynamic is you are both running
in totally different directions and prioritizing totally
different things. Whereas coming back together and
going, we now have a joint understanding of what success
(08:25):
looks like and we are working asa team to get there.
Even if you don't like each other to start, that may help
you like each other a little bitmore.
And even just asking how does mydaily work tie into that?
Like how how is what I'm doing day in and day out tie into your
success and and what could change or what might what might
you like done slightly differently?
(08:45):
I think getting curious. Love that tip, Easy action.
What is it assuming makes an assout of you and me?
I actually really like that statement.
One of the things that we, we, we've literally just covered,
you've got maybe quite differentideas of what success looks
like, what the big challenges are, what the day-to-day
priorities are, what your valuesare like, all those things.
(09:06):
And probably if you're struggling with your manager,
they're probably looking quite different.
My suspicion is what most peopledo in this situation is just
make a whole bunch of assumptions about that.
My manager doesn't support me, my manager doesn't like me, my
manager's too busy. My manager doesn't care about
this. My manager's a micromanager,
whatever it is, rather than actually stopping and saying
(09:27):
what does success look like for you and vice versa.
So it's sort of a tie into that to the first one, But it is
interesting how quickly we make assumptions about who someone is
based on very small amount of evidence of what they do.
Yeah. Conversely, don't forget that
they're probably making assumptions about us as well.
(09:49):
They're making assumptions abouthow busy we are, what we're
working on, the goals that we have, what success looks like to
us, like they are casting the whole same picture on us, that
we like certain types of work. And unless you speak up and
share it, we can assume they're assuming as well.
And then we're all asses. I love this quick little action.
(10:09):
I love that you put an action uptop about get curious and ask
what success looks like. My action for this one would
just be to start with being really transparent about what
you're working on. And that could be simple as an
e-mail. So it could be this week I
completed these three key things.
Next week I'm focusing on this priority.
And then you might just put, I need from you, I need you to
(10:32):
unblock, you know, the stakeholder holder, I need this
financial statement delivered, whatever that might be.
And then if they want context, and we're going to get to that
next, how they want to be communicated with and add any
context. But I love that bullet points of
this is what I'm working on, this is what's next.
This is how you can help me. And I, I think that's a really
(10:53):
great start to dialogue about what is keeping you busy and
what you're delivering. I think one of the most powerful
ways you can show self leadership and ownership over
your work is to tie those three key priorities or the things you
achieved back to your shared understanding of success.
Because I've noticed that managing people throughout my
career, I'm constantly shocked by that, that when they don't
(11:17):
understand that's the priority. And so they'll be like, this is
what I've worked on this week. And I'm like, what, why did you
work on that this week? We're trying to focus on this
thing and it's really easy to and a high level go, great,
great. We're all focused on this.
But actually I had a lot of meetings this week and I had
this pet project I was working on or someone gave me this piece
(11:37):
of work. And the actual detail of the
work you do gets very quickly out of sync.
So those three things should be at least two of them directly
pointing to the success that you've agreed to.
And you should keep tying it back to that because over
communication, well, I suppose that brings us to .3.
Over communication is really helpful.
(11:57):
And styles vary. So this is where some managers
just want an executive summary and others want every detail.
Some make decisions really quickly, others need to process
and think and take it in and we'll get back to you in 24
hours. Some give direct feedback,
others hint at what they want. And so the point I think, with
(12:20):
all humans and relationships is that's our responsibility.
And it should be everyone's responsibility to crack the code
of the other person to determinewhat is going to land in what
medium. Is it emails that are
one-on-one? Is it grabbing them in the
hallway? And how can I crack their code
of what do they need? What types of information do
they need? How do they like to get it?
(12:42):
And what do I need from them? And how do I share that?
Like, yeah, asking someone for adecision on the spot who
actually needs time to process is unfair.
And you just say, here's the information, could we chat
tomorrow and you could make a call on this?
That would be great. That would be cracking your
manager's code and managing up. That to me really highlights
what we're trying to convey hereabout changing your mindset,
(13:05):
that the idea of manager often makes us all think it's their
job to manage me. It's their job to hand
everything to me on a silver platter.
And that's absolutely OK if that's how you want to approach
this relationship. The easiest and fastest way to
showcase value and get those promotions and become
indispensable is to actually flip that mindset on its head
(13:25):
and go, how do I take control ofthis relationship and make it
successful and crack the code? Really owning that is such a
fast track to success. And so I love what you said
about some of the the managers, what they want and what they
don't want. A caveat to that as well as
often that changes depending on your behaviour.
So I know my goal is just to have the executive summary.
(13:47):
But if I am in a position with someone who does get off track
or distracted or is constantly overwhelmed, I want much more
detail than that until I can seethat they are on the right path.
So you actually, if you want more, I think the concept of
autonomy is slightly stuffed at work because there is no such
thing as autonomy in an organization.
You are an organization of moving parts that need to
(14:07):
operate together, but if you want to have more scope to be
able to go and do things on yourown, building that trust with
your manager that you are going to deliver to the standard that
they expect towards the success that you're both working towards
will be your fastest path to having a little bit more flex
there. So I love this, one of a
recognizing that it's on you to communicate, and secondly,
(14:30):
getting really clear on how it works for them and delivering
that. And we shouldn't overlook asking
for help either if you're finding yourself not meeting
your deliverables or not workingon stuff that you love that
flexes your strengths or your superpowers, or if you see an
area where you can add more value.
I think it's OK to, in those conversations, ask for their
(14:51):
help because that actually is their responsibility.
Like if you're to chat to any CEO at any organization, they
would go, what do they say? I want to have the, it's like
the people on the bus, right? I want to have the right people
on the bus sitting in the right seats going in the right
direction. I had to put.
They're all American and maybe Southern.
American, I'm just think I went yellow school bus.
(15:11):
I'm like, that's a North America.
That's what the CE wants. And so therefore the managers
are tasked with making sure the right people are using the right
skills, doing the right jobs andthe right delivery.
So you can ask them, hey, I've noticed that I haven't been able
to deliver this on time. I think it's because I'm being
pulled into too many meetings. Can you help me navigate these
(15:32):
things and what I can say no to or can you help me reprioritize
these things because I've been asked to deliver far too much is
what humanly possible and weak? So asking for their help in that
way, can you help me solve this problem?
And getting together very quickly and chatting, that is
the job of a manager. And if you don't like that, then
don't do that. Don't do it.
No, I, I agree. I think the only tweak I would
(15:53):
make is rather than going and saying I've been given far too
much for a human to be able to achieve, I think going in with
like curiosity into that and saying I'm really struggling to
deliver all the stuff on my plate.
I would love to have a conversation with you about
about how this can be better managed and it may be a time
management issue on your site. It could well be be really open
(16:13):
to that or it could be that there's a whole bunch of work on
your plate that's invisible to them that they didn't know that
you were even grappling with. And so really just going in
curious and asking for genuine help, not defensively and not
going, I want to prove that I'vegot way too much on and I'm
overwhelmed is a really nice wayto tackle that and build that
relationship that is actually focused a lot more on not
(16:36):
necessarily vulnerability, but being really comfortable going.
How do we work together as a team to figure this thing out?
I'm not fully relying on you andsaying it's your problem, Get it
sorted. For me, I'm coming with
solutions, I'm coming with thoughts, but I actually am
comfortable asking for what I need often, and especially if
you can in advance of a pickle, The sooner the better.
(16:59):
And so I suppose the action for this one might just be like
practice. So get, try to observe, get
curious about how that person likes to be communicated with,
get clear on what you need. And then use those moments or
those mediums, those channels toexpress just that.
And try to practice adapting andtrying to get into a cadence
where you feel heard and you have enough to do your job well.
(17:23):
So I think it's just experimentation about comms,
like being open to trying a few different things.
Yeah. And I think one of the greatest
things about being a power suitor is you can drop us like
say, hey, I've been investing inmy professional development
through the Power Suit podcast. The action that they've
suggested I tried this week is, and you could pick from either
one of those three things. I would like to ask you what
(17:46):
success looks like and how I canbetter contribute to it.
That could be one question. Or I would like to ask you what
would be the best way for me to be able to show you what I'm
working on any week not getting out of that assumption mode.
Well, thirdly, tell me the best way for me to communicate
updates with you. Like very three very simple
questions. Wrap it in a statement about how
(18:08):
you are investing in yourself and go forth.
The final thing I'd like to say though, and this has been
playing on my mind when we talk about managers is there is like
we sit at the top, a lot of poorly trained, a lot of you
know the humans too, lots of issues.
Every now and again you will come up against someone who is
an unmovable force in your past and they could either have been
(18:31):
in poor habits for so long that they are not open to change a
really fixed mindset. It could be a real personality
clash. And every now and again
narcissists do exist. I think we overuse that term,
but I tend to find every now andagain there is one in an office
and they cause absolute mayhem to the people that they target.
One of the questions that came up in the membership network in
(18:52):
the last couple of weeks is whenis it time to walk away?
And I feel like the reason we like to share these tips is
sometimes we are quick to jump to they're a narcissist or
they're a bully or whatever without actually trying to
resolve it. But if you do try these things
and, and genuinely try them and try a few different experiments
and every single time you get shut down and you're feeling
(19:14):
miserable, it is actually OK. At that point, you don't have to
continue with trying to figure out what you can do.
I think like I've noticed that with some of our members, they
really flagellate themselves effectively.
Like I've got to keep trying andI it's a failure if I don't
figure this out. And that's actually not always
true, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No 100%. I actually haven't left a job
(19:35):
because of a manager, but it's more the situation like and and
I've had some terrible managers.I was thinking, categorizing
them in my brain the other day. And 1 was, was a very busy,
often male exec. And I reported right into AVP at
a very young age, which was strange.
And so I got, you know, maybe 5 minutes a month of their time
and they left me alone. And I did have weird autonomy,
(19:57):
but I was also hugely self motivated.
And I don't know, somehow, somehow it kind of worked out
for me to have those types of people that said I didn't know
what success looked like for them and I didn't know how to
ask that. So this would have been hugely
helpful. The other type of manager.
But I just interrupt before you continue the second one though,
because I disagree. I think that's like not fair to
(20:19):
put a young person in a positionthat they get 5.
Like I actually think that is anattitude that's really outdated.
Like that managers, not yours. That's really outdated and leads
to a lot of managers not investing in their people.
Like they're really capable, they're ambitious.
I can wipe my hands with them. It is your responsibility.
And you would have been better off with a manager who actually
(20:40):
stepped in there and helped you,developed and helped you find
things. So like, yes, you were fine, you
got through, but imagine what could have happened if they'd
done a good job. And that probably to your point
of being outdated. We're talking a long time ago.
I'm dating myself 5. Years.
Yeah, like just just yesterday. And then the other person was it
was, it was very busy women and I often unfairly were like, oh
(21:05):
man, they're not very kind in their micromanaging.
But what I realize now was the pressure that was on them to
deliver and to do a full time, very senior delivery job and
then manage a team of people. No wonder they were not the best
manager. So that was very tricky
situation to navigate and didn'tmake me leave but certainly gave
(21:25):
me anxiety which was not nice but they have.
Delegated better? Out of interest, do you think
that like when you say they had a full time job, did they?
Because I'm always curious, likeif their job is delivery, surely
their team is meant to be doing a lot of that doing.
Yeah, we were doing a lot of that doing.
I think it was unreasonable expectations and part of it
could have been the whole concept of like women, they're
(21:45):
like, oh, I know we'll give her a full time job, high pressure
job and a team of people. And I'm not suggesting men don't
get that, but yeah, I. Well, they may just like not
take care of the team. Yeah, I don't know.
Yes, it was tricky environments too.
So anyway, never mind, here we are.
But I would like to just made it.
(22:06):
Oh my goodness, I made it. But but I want to end on a quote
and I'm going to lead into this quote with whatnot.
And I love as part of power suitis to assume positive intent.
Ask yourself, what is it like tobe them and everything that's
happening is not because of you assume that they have good
intentions when it comes to you and your role in your future,
but they may just not know it orthey may just be under huge
(22:28):
pressure. And so start to build the
relationship social capital, putmoney in the relationship bank.
Oh my gosh, that's so cheesy. I am going to just end with it's
a quote from Mary Abijay and it is a book called Managing Up.
So I do like this quote, and it is when we come from a place of
judgment, we become stuck in ourown worldview.
When we come from a place of curiosity, we expand our range
(22:52):
of possibility. I love it because, yeah, perfect
ending, because I think with themanager thing, it is really easy
to live in frustration and feel powerless.
But it's actually you are the one who's most severely impacted
by it. And often the person who feels
the pain the most is in the bestsituation to solve it because
you are the most motivated to doit.
(23:12):
So I love this as a challenge togo.
What action can I take to reallysay I've put my best effort into
delivering my half of this relationship?
Yes, check out powersuit.com. Come and join the membership
network. We're having a great time.
It's a party over here. Well, actually, do you know what
I was actually thinking that particularly with this topic
(23:34):
that there's been a lot of in the network.
I don't know if everyone knows this, but once you become a
member, you get access to our membership network, which has a
whole bunch of fabulous weekly events that you can pick and
choose from. But we also have like a, it's
not Slack, but imagine it like Slack or Teams where we have
people chatting. You can meet and chat with other
power suitors and one of the things is that you can ask an
(23:55):
anonymous question so no one knows it's you.
So if it's something that's particularly scary and you don't
want anyone to know where you work, that's fine.
No one ever has to. But some of these topics get
really coolly. And one of the things that I've
noticed in the last six months particularly is every one of
these questions gets 5 or 6 genuinely strong comments on
them from people who've been there, done that, who offer, who
(24:18):
put their hand up, offering support and people follow
through and end up having some really coolly hard stuff solved
through the power of community. So I think it's something we
don't really talk about a lot when we talk about power suit,
but we watch that everyday of people connecting and helping
each other solve their problems.And it's fine to listen to half
hour, half hour of us on a podcast, but that's where the
(24:41):
real change comes from. When you've got like two people
who've just been through what you've been through who can tell
you what works for him, it's really nice.
Yeah, totally agreed. Stay tuned.
Subscribe, share this podcast with a friend and we'll catch
you all next time. Bye.
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit Subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:31):
The relationship with your manager is the most predictive
factor of job satisfaction, career progression and whether
you'll quit in the next 12 months.
We've heard this a lot. Managers are key in your
happiness. Or, I suppose, sadness.
And we also know, I think some research that I read recently is
that one and two people quit over their manager.
(00:53):
And it's such an interesting dynamic because I think one of
the things that we forget when we talk about our manager is
that that relationship, like any, is a two way St.
We're actually both responsible for the success of it.
But because of that weird power imbalance, we think it's not
weird. It is a power imbalance.
We think it's their job to make it successful and put ourselves
(01:17):
in a really passive position. It's so interesting because no
one ever teaches you how to be managed and I know that sounds
weird but it's true. Like the fact that you just said
it's a two way St. no one ever tells you do that, first of all.
And you are managed from a very early age in life where it often
tends to be hierarchical. Like you know nothing in
(01:37):
university and you're learning how to do these jobs and then
you enter the career force and you really know nothing.
Of course you bring your unique perspective, but no one ever
teaches you that you actually have power and influence and a
voice and a perspective. And this is how you might use
that in a work context. But equally, no one ever teaches
a manager how to manage. Most are promoted because
(01:58):
they're good at their previous role and I think I read a stat
where they get on average 4 hours of people leadership
training in a given month. There is a whole bunch of
research on this. We still prioritize technical
skills overall. Else, even though when you
actually ask around, the biggestchallenges people face in their
jobs and in their relationships are not technical.
(02:19):
Like, we all know how to do the work.
It's how we navigate relationships, how we influence,
how we get our voice heard, how we figure out and solve
problems. And none of that that is taught
and we instead focus on wow, they can solve this through
their technical know how. They're a good architect,
they're a good accountant, and plunk them in a role that
doesn't really need those skillsat all.
It actually needs great leadership skills.
(02:42):
So we're here to hopefully help both sides of the equation a
little bit today, just with someaha moments and learnings in our
lives and what we've picked up from our parasite community.
You're right, it is a two way street.
So what does it look like to be managed and take control of that
situation? But equally all the people
leaders that are listening make it easy.
You can also make. It easy and one of the things
(03:02):
that I've been talking to a few of our fabulous power suit
partners about is how the role of managers in power suit like
it's all fine and good for our members to be building these
self leadership skills and actually learning a lot of
skills that their managers as well have not been taught.
But if they're coming up againsta manager who hasn't learned
these skills, who doesn't see the great role of one on ones
(03:25):
giving and receiving feedback, they're uncomfortable with
having direct conversations, then that puts a lot of onus on
our members. But it also means their managers
often underestimate the power ofprofessional development because
they've never received it unlessit's to do compliance based
training or technical based training.
So they're actually not super supportive, even if they're
(03:47):
unconsciously. So they're not super supportive
of our members investing in themselves, but also applying
what they learn in the office because they don't see it as
valuable because they haven't had the opportunity opportunity
to experience it either. So I find that really
interesting that we see managersare so different from us, like
they must have got there and therefore know everything.
(04:07):
But actually, the harsh truth ofit is, if you are a power suit
member, you're probably learningskills that your manager may not
have. Yeah, Yeah.
No, I love that. And just a little last thought
that came to mind before we jumpinto a couple big aha moments is
in in managing up and how to manage up is that it is OK if
(04:28):
you never become a people leader.
It's so interesting that it's ingrained in us that you go from
being a individual contributor and you get promoted to being a
people leader. It is OK if you don't like it.
If you've done a strengths test and coaching isn't in your like
top ten skill set, nor do you want to flex that muscle and
learn how to develop people. Then like, you don't have to do
(04:48):
it, but you can have a crazy successful career without being
a people leader. And I just think it's OK to not
want to be it and to not be it. But it's funny how we just
assume that's the latter. Well, and that's why we have so
many managers getting power suitors in a pickle.
The managers don't see their role as looking after people.
They see people with sort of an inconvenient addition because
(05:11):
they've become a people leader, because it's the next step up
the hierarchy, not because they had this real passion for
leading and developing and helping the people below them
get successful. And it's a really interesting
light bulb moment, I think for alot of people who get into these
roles that they suddenly go, oh,I don't like this part of the
role. And it's like, Yep, great.
(05:31):
Well, there's a lot of other options out there.
And sadly we still live in a world where technical skills and
staying purely in a technical role is not always rewarded as
much as people leadership. But it does feel like,
especially in innovative companies, we are heading there
and starting to recognize there is no point putting a square peg
into a round hole. And my brain flip-flopped on one
(05:53):
thing you said. Would be keen to hear your
thoughts if you don't want to yet.
Lead and coach and and help others perform.
I think sometimes what happens is one, organizations don't set
managers up to succeed because their delivery expectations of
them are crazy in addition to managing a team.
So that could be a scenario. Another scenario could be the
person never learns how to go. We have to deliver this stuff as
(06:16):
a team. So I'm going to delegate and and
all of that stuff as well. So I think there's a few things
playing out, but another podcast.
Absolutely. And I think all of this to say
that we're not saying here managers are perfect and it's
all on you. What we're saying is reality of
the world is there is a bunch offactors that probably mean
(06:36):
whoever is your boss is probablya, hasn't been set up for
success. B has probably formed some bad
habits as a result, and May and and C just probably doesn't know
some of the skills that you willbe learning through even
listening to this podcast. So that doesn't mean that you
are completely in the right all the time because dynamics are
(06:58):
dynamics. But it doesn't.
But we're not saying here it's all on you.
We are saying you can take more control over this dynamic though
than many of us realize. So my first kind of mindset
shift and point is that neither of you, you or your manager can
succeed without the other. And I think that's a really
important realization in that your manager needs you to
(07:19):
succeed in order for them to succeed.
And and therefore they have power over your daily experience
and what you do, but you have power over their success.
It is very much a two way St. Yeah, and seeing yourself as a
team is really importantly, I don't think people tend to think
of themselves as a team with their manager.
(07:40):
And that idea of success is really interesting because
sometimes we forget that successlooks very different to
different people. Your idea of success might be
landing your next role, it mightbe delivering a project, might
be whatever is top of mind for you and for them success could
look very different. So getting clear, and this is a
really easy action to take, asking your manager what success
(08:03):
looks like for them. Most people don't do that, but
if you were to ask them every month, what does success look
like for you this month? How do I better help you get to
that success? You may find that the reason
there's complications in your dynamic is you are both running
in totally different directions and prioritizing totally
different things. Whereas coming back together and
going, we now have a joint understanding of what success
(08:25):
looks like and we are working asa team to get there.
Even if you don't like each other to start, that may help
you like each other a little bitmore.
And even just asking how does mydaily work tie into that?
Like how how is what I'm doing day in and day out tie into your
success and and what could change or what might what might
you like done slightly differently?
(08:45):
I think getting curious. Love that tip, Easy action.
What is it assuming makes an assout of you and me?
I actually really like that statement.
One of the things that we, we, we've literally just covered,
you've got maybe quite differentideas of what success looks
like, what the big challenges are, what the day-to-day
priorities are, what your valuesare like, all those things.
(09:06):
And probably if you're struggling with your manager,
they're probably looking quite different.
My suspicion is what most peopledo in this situation is just
make a whole bunch of assumptions about that.
My manager doesn't support me, my manager doesn't like me, my
manager's too busy. My manager doesn't care about
this. My manager's a micromanager,
whatever it is, rather than actually stopping and saying
(09:27):
what does success look like for you and vice versa.
So it's sort of a tie into that to the first one, But it is
interesting how quickly we make assumptions about who someone is
based on very small amount of evidence of what they do.
Yeah. Conversely, don't forget that
they're probably making assumptions about us as well.
(09:49):
They're making assumptions abouthow busy we are, what we're
working on, the goals that we have, what success looks like to
us, like they are casting the whole same picture on us, that
we like certain types of work. And unless you speak up and
share it, we can assume they're assuming as well.
And then we're all asses. I love this quick little action.
(10:09):
I love that you put an action uptop about get curious and ask
what success looks like. My action for this one would
just be to start with being really transparent about what
you're working on. And that could be simple as an
e-mail. So it could be this week I
completed these three key things.
Next week I'm focusing on this priority.
And then you might just put, I need from you, I need you to
(10:32):
unblock, you know, the stakeholder holder, I need this
financial statement delivered, whatever that might be.
And then if they want context, and we're going to get to that
next, how they want to be communicated with and add any
context. But I love that bullet points of
this is what I'm working on, this is what's next.
This is how you can help me. And I, I think that's a really
(10:53):
great start to dialogue about what is keeping you busy and
what you're delivering. I think one of the most powerful
ways you can show self leadership and ownership over
your work is to tie those three key priorities or the things you
achieved back to your shared understanding of success.
Because I've noticed that managing people throughout my
career, I'm constantly shocked by that, that when they don't
(11:17):
understand that's the priority. And so they'll be like, this is
what I've worked on this week. And I'm like, what, why did you
work on that this week? We're trying to focus on this
thing and it's really easy to and a high level go, great,
great. We're all focused on this.
But actually I had a lot of meetings this week and I had
this pet project I was working on or someone gave me this piece
(11:37):
of work. And the actual detail of the
work you do gets very quickly out of sync.
So those three things should be at least two of them directly
pointing to the success that you've agreed to.
And you should keep tying it back to that because over
communication, well, I suppose that brings us to .3.
Over communication is really helpful.
(11:57):
And styles vary. So this is where some managers
just want an executive summary and others want every detail.
Some make decisions really quickly, others need to process
and think and take it in and we'll get back to you in 24
hours. Some give direct feedback,
others hint at what they want. And so the point I think, with
(12:20):
all humans and relationships is that's our responsibility.
And it should be everyone's responsibility to crack the code
of the other person to determinewhat is going to land in what
medium. Is it emails that are
one-on-one? Is it grabbing them in the
hallway? And how can I crack their code
of what do they need? What types of information do
they need? How do they like to get it?
(12:42):
And what do I need from them? And how do I share that?
Like, yeah, asking someone for adecision on the spot who
actually needs time to process is unfair.
And you just say, here's the information, could we chat
tomorrow and you could make a call on this?
That would be great. That would be cracking your
manager's code and managing up. That to me really highlights
what we're trying to convey hereabout changing your mindset,
(13:05):
that the idea of manager often makes us all think it's their
job to manage me. It's their job to hand
everything to me on a silver platter.
And that's absolutely OK if that's how you want to approach
this relationship. The easiest and fastest way to
showcase value and get those promotions and become
indispensable is to actually flip that mindset on its head
(13:25):
and go, how do I take control ofthis relationship and make it
successful and crack the code? Really owning that is such a
fast track to success. And so I love what you said
about some of the the managers, what they want and what they
don't want. A caveat to that as well as
often that changes depending on your behaviour.
So I know my goal is just to have the executive summary.
(13:47):
But if I am in a position with someone who does get off track
or distracted or is constantly overwhelmed, I want much more
detail than that until I can seethat they are on the right path.
So you actually, if you want more, I think the concept of
autonomy is slightly stuffed at work because there is no such
thing as autonomy in an organization.
You are an organization of moving parts that need to
(14:07):
operate together, but if you want to have more scope to be
able to go and do things on yourown, building that trust with
your manager that you are going to deliver to the standard that
they expect towards the success that you're both working towards
will be your fastest path to having a little bit more flex
there. So I love this, one of a
recognizing that it's on you to communicate, and secondly,
(14:30):
getting really clear on how it works for them and delivering
that. And we shouldn't overlook asking
for help either if you're finding yourself not meeting
your deliverables or not workingon stuff that you love that
flexes your strengths or your superpowers, or if you see an
area where you can add more value.
I think it's OK to, in those conversations, ask for their
(14:51):
help because that actually is their responsibility.
Like if you're to chat to any CEO at any organization, they
would go, what do they say? I want to have the, it's like
the people on the bus, right? I want to have the right people
on the bus sitting in the right seats going in the right
direction. I had to put.
They're all American and maybe Southern.
American, I'm just think I went yellow school bus.
(15:11):
I'm like, that's a North America.
That's what the CE wants. And so therefore the managers
are tasked with making sure the right people are using the right
skills, doing the right jobs andthe right delivery.
So you can ask them, hey, I've noticed that I haven't been able
to deliver this on time. I think it's because I'm being
pulled into too many meetings. Can you help me navigate these
(15:32):
things and what I can say no to or can you help me reprioritize
these things because I've been asked to deliver far too much is
what humanly possible and weak? So asking for their help in that
way, can you help me solve this problem?
And getting together very quickly and chatting, that is
the job of a manager. And if you don't like that, then
don't do that. Don't do it.
No, I, I agree. I think the only tweak I would
(15:53):
make is rather than going and saying I've been given far too
much for a human to be able to achieve, I think going in with
like curiosity into that and saying I'm really struggling to
deliver all the stuff on my plate.
I would love to have a conversation with you about
about how this can be better managed and it may be a time
management issue on your site. It could well be be really open
(16:13):
to that or it could be that there's a whole bunch of work on
your plate that's invisible to them that they didn't know that
you were even grappling with. And so really just going in
curious and asking for genuine help, not defensively and not
going, I want to prove that I'vegot way too much on and I'm
overwhelmed is a really nice wayto tackle that and build that
relationship that is actually focused a lot more on not
(16:36):
necessarily vulnerability, but being really comfortable going.
How do we work together as a team to figure this thing out?
I'm not fully relying on you andsaying it's your problem, Get it
sorted. For me, I'm coming with
solutions, I'm coming with thoughts, but I actually am
comfortable asking for what I need often, and especially if
you can in advance of a pickle, The sooner the better.
(16:59):
And so I suppose the action for this one might just be like
practice. So get, try to observe, get
curious about how that person likes to be communicated with,
get clear on what you need. And then use those moments or
those mediums, those channels toexpress just that.
And try to practice adapting andtrying to get into a cadence
where you feel heard and you have enough to do your job well.
(17:23):
So I think it's just experimentation about comms,
like being open to trying a few different things.
Yeah. And I think one of the greatest
things about being a power suitor is you can drop us like
say, hey, I've been investing inmy professional development
through the Power Suit podcast. The action that they've
suggested I tried this week is, and you could pick from either
one of those three things. I would like to ask you what
(17:46):
success looks like and how I canbetter contribute to it.
That could be one question. Or I would like to ask you what
would be the best way for me to be able to show you what I'm
working on any week not getting out of that assumption mode.
Well, thirdly, tell me the best way for me to communicate
updates with you. Like very three very simple
questions. Wrap it in a statement about how
(18:08):
you are investing in yourself and go forth.
The final thing I'd like to say though, and this has been
playing on my mind when we talk about managers is there is like
we sit at the top, a lot of poorly trained, a lot of you
know the humans too, lots of issues.
Every now and again you will come up against someone who is
an unmovable force in your past and they could either have been
(18:31):
in poor habits for so long that they are not open to change a
really fixed mindset. It could be a real personality
clash. And every now and again
narcissists do exist. I think we overuse that term,
but I tend to find every now andagain there is one in an office
and they cause absolute mayhem to the people that they target.
One of the questions that came up in the membership network in
(18:52):
the last couple of weeks is whenis it time to walk away?
And I feel like the reason we like to share these tips is
sometimes we are quick to jump to they're a narcissist or
they're a bully or whatever without actually trying to
resolve it. But if you do try these things
and, and genuinely try them and try a few different experiments
and every single time you get shut down and you're feeling
(19:14):
miserable, it is actually OK. At that point, you don't have to
continue with trying to figure out what you can do.
I think like I've noticed that with some of our members, they
really flagellate themselves effectively.
Like I've got to keep trying andI it's a failure if I don't
figure this out. And that's actually not always
true, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No 100%. I actually haven't left a job
(19:35):
because of a manager, but it's more the situation like and and
I've had some terrible managers.I was thinking, categorizing
them in my brain the other day. And 1 was, was a very busy,
often male exec. And I reported right into AVP at
a very young age, which was strange.
And so I got, you know, maybe 5 minutes a month of their time
and they left me alone. And I did have weird autonomy,
(19:57):
but I was also hugely self motivated.
And I don't know, somehow, somehow it kind of worked out
for me to have those types of people that said I didn't know
what success looked like for them and I didn't know how to
ask that. So this would have been hugely
helpful. The other type of manager.
But I just interrupt before you continue the second one though,
because I disagree. I think that's like not fair to
(20:19):
put a young person in a positionthat they get 5.
Like I actually think that is anattitude that's really outdated.
Like that managers, not yours. That's really outdated and leads
to a lot of managers not investing in their people.
Like they're really capable, they're ambitious.
I can wipe my hands with them. It is your responsibility.
And you would have been better off with a manager who actually
(20:40):
stepped in there and helped you,developed and helped you find
things. So like, yes, you were fine, you
got through, but imagine what could have happened if they'd
done a good job. And that probably to your point
of being outdated. We're talking a long time ago.
I'm dating myself 5. Years.
Yeah, like just just yesterday. And then the other person was it
was, it was very busy women and I often unfairly were like, oh
(21:05):
man, they're not very kind in their micromanaging.
But what I realize now was the pressure that was on them to
deliver and to do a full time, very senior delivery job and
then manage a team of people. No wonder they were not the best
manager. So that was very tricky
situation to navigate and didn'tmake me leave but certainly gave
(21:25):
me anxiety which was not nice but they have.
Delegated better? Out of interest, do you think
that like when you say they had a full time job, did they?
Because I'm always curious, likeif their job is delivery, surely
their team is meant to be doing a lot of that doing.
Yeah, we were doing a lot of that doing.
I think it was unreasonable expectations and part of it
could have been the whole concept of like women, they're
(21:45):
like, oh, I know we'll give her a full time job, high pressure
job and a team of people. And I'm not suggesting men don't
get that, but yeah, I. Well, they may just like not
take care of the team. Yeah, I don't know.
Yes, it was tricky environments too.
So anyway, never mind, here we are.
But I would like to just made it.
(22:06):
Oh my goodness, I made it. But but I want to end on a quote
and I'm going to lead into this quote with whatnot.
And I love as part of power suitis to assume positive intent.
Ask yourself, what is it like tobe them and everything that's
happening is not because of you assume that they have good
intentions when it comes to you and your role in your future,
but they may just not know it orthey may just be under huge
(22:28):
pressure. And so start to build the
relationship social capital, putmoney in the relationship bank.
Oh my gosh, that's so cheesy. I am going to just end with it's
a quote from Mary Abijay and it is a book called Managing Up.
So I do like this quote, and it is when we come from a place of
judgment, we become stuck in ourown worldview.
When we come from a place of curiosity, we expand our range
(22:52):
of possibility. I love it because, yeah, perfect
ending, because I think with themanager thing, it is really easy
to live in frustration and feel powerless.
But it's actually you are the one who's most severely impacted
by it. And often the person who feels
the pain the most is in the bestsituation to solve it because
you are the most motivated to doit.
(23:12):
So I love this as a challenge togo.
What action can I take to reallysay I've put my best effort into
delivering my half of this relationship?
Yes, check out powersuit.com. Come and join the membership
network. We're having a great time.
It's a party over here. Well, actually, do you know what
I was actually thinking that particularly with this topic
(23:34):
that there's been a lot of in the network.
I don't know if everyone knows this, but once you become a
member, you get access to our membership network, which has a
whole bunch of fabulous weekly events that you can pick and
choose from. But we also have like a, it's
not Slack, but imagine it like Slack or Teams where we have
people chatting. You can meet and chat with other
power suitors and one of the things is that you can ask an
(23:55):
anonymous question so no one knows it's you.
So if it's something that's particularly scary and you don't
want anyone to know where you work, that's fine.
No one ever has to. But some of these topics get
really coolly. And one of the things that I've
noticed in the last six months particularly is every one of
these questions gets 5 or 6 genuinely strong comments on
them from people who've been there, done that, who offer, who
(24:18):
put their hand up, offering support and people follow
through and end up having some really coolly hard stuff solved
through the power of community. So I think it's something we
don't really talk about a lot when we talk about power suit,
but we watch that everyday of people connecting and helping
each other solve their problems.And it's fine to listen to half
hour, half hour of us on a podcast, but that's where the
(24:41):
real change comes from. When you've got like two people
who've just been through what you've been through who can tell
you what works for him, it's really nice.
Yeah, totally agreed. Stay tuned.
Subscribe, share this podcast with a friend and we'll catch
you all next time. Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.