May 4, 2026 • 31 mins
Nat and Kristen get into the underrated skill of reading a room - who actually holds the power (*cough* it's not always the most senior person), why where you sit says more than you think, and how to spot the silent dissenters before they tank your project offline.
They cover what to watch for in your next meeting: who opens, who dominates, who's performing for the boss, and what the micro-moments between people are actually telling you. US
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:37):
OK, today we're going to talk about reading the room and all
the little cues and nudges and signals we get if we're paying
attention. But first, Kristen, we are both
huge fans of learning the origins behind words.
And you sent me one today and I feel like we're going to say
goodbye now so you can tell us the origin of the word goodbye.
(01:02):
And then I have one for you. OK, I, Oh my gosh, I can't
remember all the, the details, but from what it was, it was a
few 100 years ago. So back, I don't know, let's say
15th century. It's probably way earlier, like
maybe maybe the 14th century. I have no idea.
But effectively in in England and ye old English people would
say God be with ye, God be with ye.
(01:25):
Every time you left an interaction, God be with ye to
give someone a blessing on theirway.
And because it became such a normal way when you were leaving
one another to say to one another, you started saying it
very quickly, God be with ye, God be with ye go.
I can't even say it quickly enough to get from there to
(01:47):
people started to just shorten it to goodbye.
And so God be with God be with ye turned into goodbye.
That's where a kid came from. Yeah, my one is the origin of
slapstick, slapstick comedy. They used to have a literal
slapstick. And so when you like went to
look like you were slapping someone across the face, they'd
(02:07):
slap the stick and make it look like and make it sound like the
slap hit that you go over on. You are welcome.
I got you. OK, Good one.
I like that we. Were going to start today with a
story of people watching each. Yeah.
Do you have one? I have two.
I have two but fit you jump in with one at any point.
(02:27):
OK. Well, I do want me.
To start, well, I I have literally well, Kyla's just come
back from dropping out foster puppy at back at the SPCA our
the animal shelter and having a foster puppy gives you a lot of
opportunities to read the room because the way people interact
with the puppy, the way they. So there's a couple of things
where people hype up the puppy or the tension rises as people
(02:50):
get stressed about the puppy or telling the puppy off or and you
just like it's just given me a lot of opportunities over the
weekend to go. All the puppy wants is calm, but
all of us, like you see the dynamics responding and
interpreting and wanting something.
And so I think if you have a dogor a pet, pay attention.
That's a really easy, interesting way to see how
(03:12):
people the the, the vibe of the room, the tension, the energy
changes so quickly depending on what the puppy does.
That's so true. That's so true.
That brought back a few memoriesof like, my dog running up to
say hello to someone who may or may not want to touch it,
including a football friend of Grayson's who's Muslim.
(03:34):
And apparently when a dog touches them, it's like, I don't
know you're. It's not good.
For many, many years I Nor did Iuntil I saw.
That part of the Muslim religionis that dogs are dirty.
Or dirty. And it was like if they touch
it, they have to do something. For seven years.
He I did ask about it. After the fact.
Because he looks so frightened of the dog.
(03:55):
Thankfully she never touched him, but but that was so
noticing that was I was like, Ohmy gosh, are you frightened of
the dog? You know, observing those
patterns. But equally, when you have a dog
that goes up to say hello to another dog who might be, what's
it called, like reactionary or something like that, and then
you can just sense the sense, the strength.
Yeah, thankfully my dog is needy, so she does have a OK
(04:16):
recall. But anyway.
But dogs are actually really good at that.
You Watch Dogs come up at each other and they're sniffing and
they're sensing what each other's vibe is and so.
So we should, I'm going to talk about I'm going to so we should
sniff each other's spots. No one ever told me that, by the
way, that that's how they, you know, sent.
Any children who as well? I'm sorry, I had done so much
(04:38):
poo chair in the last week that I'm like, I have to get poo back
out of my vocab. OK good, we will do that here.
I've got 2 recent when I've sat and thought about people
watching and observing. Actually, just more than
watching, observing, I did two things.
Number one was in Japan and I was in Tokyo in Herjuku.
And of course I wanted to see a Herjuku girl who is one of those
(05:02):
beautifully dressed girls. In fact, they are young women
who dress like, I don't know, you might describe it as little
girls, like everything is reallycutesy and frilly and pink and
short and but big platform shoesand they even wear almost.
I know it's not the right term, but doilies on their heads like
everything is like a real. Fashion.
It's a thing. It's a thing started in the 90s
(05:24):
and I was observing A Hajuku girl and I was just going what
like what is it like how does that person engage in the world
around them and how might they even go to work?
Because that would not be acceptable at a workplace in
Japan. What what do they do for a
living? And observing how that person
walked with such confidence dressed up like a little doll.
(05:46):
It was so fascinating. Which led me to research on Hera
Juhu girls. Turns out turns out that it is
an absolute F you to the system.It's completely opposite to what
you might think and because everyone in for the most part in
Japan, if you are an office worker, you wear black.
The men wear black suits, black ties, women wear black skirt
(06:08):
suits and I'm very do more. And Harajuka girl was like
trying to show their feminism and railing against the system
that wanted them to conform as robots.
And that was their expression offeminism of Harajuka girl, which
I found fascinating. So that was a really nice
observation, thinking about a person and then diving into
(06:31):
research, which you and I love. And then the other one was just
yesterday. We stopped in the the gosh,
what's it called? Bunnings?
What is that called? A yeah, Hardware store, home
depart. Yeah, hardware store, hardware
store, home improvement store, building store, whatever stopped
(06:52):
in the store. And I was walking down an aisle,
past an aisle kind of directionless is like my husband
charged ahead to find something.And I heard a little boy whining
and whining up at his dad. But the mum was there too.
So there was a little probably one or two year old that was
whining. And I kind of just watched and
it was really interesting to watch the interaction between
the little boy and the dad and how the dad responded and how
(07:15):
the dad said what do you need and pick the little boy up and
had this conversation with a 1 1/2 year old boy.
And I noticed I was just like noticing how he was responding
to the, I was thinking in no judgment whatsoever.
Like I was actually really curious.
I was like, how might I have responded when my kids were at
that age? And isn't that interesting?
And it got me thinking about howinvolved dads are and how this
(07:37):
person was really in tuned with the emotional needs of his son.
And it was just really interesting to observe that
behavior. And then I moved on.
I I think that you often if, if anyone wants to practice this
observation, I feel like I the example I was going to give as
well was at a restaurant up north when we were on holiday
and our waiter very early on showcased immense amounts of
(08:00):
knowledge about the area. And he was funny and he told
great stories. And then he had a stick about
this is my first day on the job,which of course I didn't
believe. But turns out he left and come
back and watching how he navigated amongst the other
waiters and the other staff and you, you get to pick up on who's
kind of unofficially running theshow.
Caveat here before we move on toactually watching.
(08:22):
This is why we often mention theimportance of not rushing in
light looking frazzled or apologizing profusely or jumping
in with the array of whatever's is because other people are
reading the room. And when you come into a room or
a video call with just like a flurry of negative energy or
frazzled energy or stressed energy, people very quickly pick
(08:45):
up on that. And that that first impression
thing really does matter. And you can sense a alter the
tone very quickly. It does tweak the tone, but also
position yourself as a overwhelmed person.
And that's why those really early cues make a big
difference. So as we're going through this
and think about how your behaviour might be perceived as
(09:07):
you in different situations too.Like we talk about cameras off
all sorts of stuff that have a cue that other people.
Yeah, the reason we wanted to chat about reading the room.
Well, I don't know, probably just it came up in conversation.
We were chatting with para suitors about it.
I mean, that's why and but it's but what we do believe is it
really is a superpower skill. I remember when this whole
(09:27):
concept of EQ came out emotionalquotient.
And while my IQ was fine, my EQ is quite high.
And this concept of social awareness like I tend to and,
and I think without over generalizing, I think women have
needed to pick up on social cuesvery early in our lives, you
know, to, to fit in and to therefore read a room.
(09:49):
So I think it is a superpower skill that many of us have no
stress. If it's something you haven't
noticed or you don't feel it, Wewant to describe what it is
today and how to actually start to flex that muscle because we
have to prepare for the content of our meeting or for what we're
going to deliver or say in that meeting.
We do talk about that quite often and prepping, but what we
(10:12):
think is as important for playing, you know, the political
chess board as you might in a room or in a meeting or a high
stakes conversation is to read the room as well.
And that is probably a really good point to shout out to all
our neurodivergent what are people saying neuro spicy,
people listening. And, and, and we've mentioned
(10:33):
this before, but one of those challenges is, and I've noticed
this more and more about people we call neurotypical, even
though I disagree anyone's typical, some of the
pleasantries, the how I use and the, you know, must do this and
how they're actually incredibly confusing things to say and it
can put someone on the back foot.
(10:53):
So even if you are listening to this thinking, Oh my gosh, I
have low, what is it EQ or I andyou're a divergent and I don't
pick up on usual skills. Use this as a little bit of a
checklist. Usual skills, usual cues, just
use as a checklist. And maybe just see if there's
any way during your next meetingand your next conversation at a
(11:15):
cafe, just pay attention and seeif there's something that you
go, huh, now I'm paying attention to it.
Maybe there's something here that I can really focus on next
time. And, and maybe not, that's fine
too. I just want to be very clear
that not all of us see the worldin the same way.
And that can be utterly confusing.
In this world, some of this stuff, again, like you said is
observable, it's learnable, it can be checklisted.
(11:36):
And and you know, one thing to note is maybe don't start
practicing it in a Zoom or Teamsenvironment because on screen
can be really hard to pick up those cues, which in fact puts I
think those that are calling into zoom on a screen versus
those that are in the room. At the same time, it puts those
that are calling in A at a greatdisadvantage in terms of being
(11:59):
able to read what actually is happening in the room.
So yeah, our we're fans of either everyone on a screen or
or everyone in person. And and like even when we
deliver the dual. Screens not.
That's right, everyone individual screens.
Yeah, because when we deliver events and Oh my gosh, it's
hybrid, it's that you just. It's so tough to engage and read
(12:19):
and yeah, so even in. Waitings, I think we edit it in
our news there a couple of weeksago.
They really, unless you are an expert facilitator, meetings
should be all in person or all on individual devices.
There's very few times I've seenthat hybrid go well and it
really does put people at a disadvantage.
So maybe that's a hot tip to take away.
Nothing else. How do you plan in meetings to
(12:41):
make sure everyone is one or theother and give it an experiment
and see if it makes a difference?
OK, well, I'm going to kick off with a few ways to read the
room. Well, like, what are some things
that we can pick up on before weactually move into a little bit
of a checklist? And maybe things to try this
week is #1 detect the mood. The next time you're in a social
situation with humans in a room,detect the mood.
(13:03):
Or as everyone says, no, the vibes.
I've caught myself using that a little bit too much recently.
You know, the vibes of the yeah,yeah, yeah.
So detect the mood of the room. Is it?
Is it is it really positive and optimistic?
Is it like decision making and action orientated?
Is it, is it a venting room? Like is it a, a space where
(13:24):
people are just airing grievances?
Is there an elephant in the room?
This is something that I remember very frequently when
you got a bunch of senior stakeholders in the room and you
know that those two are at war and this person, like this
person and this big thing is unsaid.
You can just feel that elephant in the room.
Is it notice if there's something going on there?
(13:44):
Notice body language in which sometimes can display energy
levels. Notice the what is, how
distracted or engaged people are, who's on their phone, that
kind of thing. So start to just detect the mood
or the vibe. I'm going to do the second one,
which is going probably one stepbelow that down to individuals
(14:05):
more or groups. And again, this is something
that's really easy to prepare for.
Who are the people doing all thetalking?
Who are the people listening andwriting notes?
Who are the people who have appeared to totally check out?
And the reason I say this is 1 to prep for is you can actually
ask people how they prefer to behave in meetings.
There are people who just think on their feet and they're right
in there. There are people who prefer to
(14:27):
go away and think about it and want to prepare beforehand.
So getting an idea of are the different ways of acting in the
room. Sometimes our gut feel could be
if they're different from us, like the loud people are
dominating and they want their ideas heard, whereas actually
they may just be like that's howthey process.
The quiet people are disengaged.Well, actually that's how they
process. So getting clear on more at a
(14:49):
granular level, who's doing what?
And is it the same as they usually operate or is it
different from how they usually operate?
And even challenging yourself tolook beyond your own biases and
going just because they're behaving like that, does that
mean something? And can I check in with them
afterwards or beforehand next time and say how do you prefer
to run these things? Yeah, like that which lends life
(15:10):
nicely, I think as well to this concept of power and who holds
it in a given situation. And it can jump, of course,
during an engagement, but if youare in a room, it's not
necessarily the person that is most senior who holds the power.
And what we mean by that is, andthat you've also, you sometimes
(15:30):
have referred to like watching The Apprentice and if you just
watch a show, if you just watch a board meeting or of teams
meeting in The Apprentice, quiteoften it's like someone who has,
who others are looking to, you know, there's sometimes that
dynamic or one person will get interrupted more often or who's
(15:51):
shutting interruptions down or who is starting and framing the
conversation, who is summarizingand closing the conversation of
key learnings. That's often a sign of power and
or influence can be used interchangeably in a in a social
setting. And then following from that is
where they sit on whatever the topic is, because again,
(16:13):
sometimes we can perceive silence to be someone who is on
board or happy with what's happening.
And often those are the people who go out and have a separate
meeting or who are silently resisting.
So who is giving you the cues that they are in favour or
against or have questions? And yeah, so I think that that
(16:36):
is also especially because most of the time when we're in
meetings, we're discussing something hopefully.
And this is something that you should practice the whole way
through. And we talk about that a lot
here because we both do a lot ofvideo calls.
And my girlfriend particularly is in large group meetings and
often say, oh, you could tell when someone totally switched
(16:58):
and really didn't like somethingor they were.
And and that's not always anything said.
Sometimes it's a change in face and it will in body language.
And so you start to pick up on those things and again, note
those things down as you go through.
Like it's kind of an interestingexercise to note down, oh, this
changed here because you can go and follow up afterwards and
say, hey, I thought from what I saw, it looked like you
(17:21):
hesitated there. I'm really curious to know if
there was something that you didn't add if they're not
someone who likes to talk on thespot.
Yes, I wanted to just get back to power quickly.
And this might be a whole other podcast of like of, of where to
sit because there's this conceptof of like proximal power.
And what that actually means is literally where you sit and what
(17:45):
it indicates in terms of like your influence.
And that's often like it's a psychological thing of where you
often sit. So the core idea is quite often
there is, as we know, the head of the tables, a lot of board
meetings, the chair will sit at the head or the summon that is
running the meeting. And this is a classic high power
seat. Often the head of a boardroom
(18:06):
table. We see all those shows where
often it was old, you know, backin Oh my gosh, what was that
incredible long running series. It was so good.
Mad Men where it's the dad is atthe head of the Tate dinner
table, like all that stuff. So head of the table was is
possibly still a classic high power seat directly opposite
(18:27):
that puts you in direct visual competition because it is about
eyes on and the head of the table is easiest to have direct
eyes on. So like you position often they
say a negotiation sit directly across the person.
So you've got that like power aswell, that situation of direct
sight of that person. And then equally I've heard of
(18:48):
quite often you know, in a boardroom table and people come
in to observe or something and there's seats on the outside of
the like, not at the table like obvious the worst possible place
for proximal power. Like it literally shows you are
not part of the conversation. Well, the.
Heavens and politics all the time, right?
Like you're sitting along the wall and the real.
Power bridges are the table. I know they're like that.
(19:10):
What are those people called that like shoo them to their
next meetings and prep them. They're like amazing.
But what advisors, what are theycalled anyway?
Yeah, like it kind of show it's an interesting power.
Like they're not the power holders, but nonetheless
they're, you know, supporters. But yeah, I think corners are
seen as the most collaborative and least threatening because it
(19:30):
I don't know why. Like, it's just that a lot of
people. Surrounding people, yeah.
You're open to more. You're in close proximity to
more people. Yeah, exactly.
And I, yeah. Anyway, so interesting in terms
of like proximal power, notice where people sit and why.
Like, like just start the next time go to your meeting.
Yeah, why? But notice where people sit.
(19:51):
That feels like a. Really easy place.
It's funny, I always have a hesitation sitting at the head
of the table. I wonder if that's really
British. But like when we go into
physical meeting rooms, it's very rare I'll sit at the head
of the table. And I think when someone does
these, often a little sort of joke made about, oh, you can be
at the head of the table. So there is like this,
unconscious. This thing there is there an?
Unconscious thing where you wantpeople to feel comfortable and
(20:13):
so you don't. Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's the same as, and I did this once in the US and I
was for power suit doing a workshop for the women's
program. And the CEO, who was a man,
walked in and addressed this group.
And he, the way he did it was very casual, but he stayed
standing. And I was like, oh, sit down
(20:34):
because I was like, you mean to be sitting alongside this group,
like you'd need to come in and assert like, I'm standing.
And like I did tell I sit in a jokey way.
And he actually sat down. And I was just like, oh, come
on, dude. It's like a real power play.
And I was like, I get it. Like you are spending a lot of
time assuming that authority. But in some situations.
(20:56):
Read through. And do it slightly differently.
I would say translating that where you fit in to a virtual
world, a couple of tips there isyou can tell like you can convey
a lot through how someone presents themselves online.
So have it. I think it's probably
controversial. It's probably different people
think different things about thefuzzy backgrounds.
I personally hate them. I feel like it feels weird.
(21:18):
It's like kind of jarring. I don't like obviously do it if
you need to and if you are living in a room where it might
be like a bed behind you or something, you feel
uncomfortable, absolutely fine. Like it's not the end of the
world, but having, you know, having a fun, interesting
background can be a nice thing. But also good lighting, good
lighting and good audio. I've talked to someone the other
(21:39):
day and she was in a car and shecut out like every two minutes
and I was like oh so annoying talking to you because.
All you're thinking about is that, not the substance, not the
relationship. Interesting.
So effectively, how can you create the heat of the table
able seat online? And I think a lot of that is
about the quality of your audio.I mean, I am saying this, do as
(22:00):
I say, not as I do slumming it here in my hoodie and my hair
half brushed. But we're not recording.
We're gonna start doing videos maybe next week of our podcast.
Although if he does a video thisweek I'm putting it up.
OK, well does I say not as I do,but how do you create that heat
of the table vibe? And it is lighting.
There's a lot of tools on your video posture.
(22:21):
Remember was at Kimberly, she did a mini master class.
It's on demand right now for power suitors listening in and
it is literally about you do a zip, you have your feet flat on
the floor and you do a zip from your feet all the way up to the
top of your head. I'm actually doing it right now.
Just imagine me just sitting up straight was zipping my body up
and that is a real I suppose power slash confidence move
(22:45):
when? You're watching the new season
of Oh my gosh, everything we know I got from TV, but I'm
watching the new season of Jury Duty.
You know that reality TV show where he was the only one who
didn't realize it was a reality TV show and.
I saw ads for it but I haven't watched it.
Oh. You should totally watch it,
it's so good. But season 2 is out now and one
other woman is like a almost like a dog electric dog shock
(23:09):
collar thing on every time she slaps and she's like sits up
straight. I'm like I need one of them.
That's so good. I have two examples before we go
into like just some quick invitation tips in terms of
where I've noticed reading the room.
Like if you want to watch it in action, the my first suggestion
(23:30):
is is if you haven't seen Succession Secession, however
you'd like to say it, that is a fabulous and very intense drama.
Love it. It's off the Rudolph family big,
you know, billionaire Australianslash England English.
Say again. What's his name?
Rupert. Murdoch.
Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch, thank you.
Thank you. I like.
How you think? That into Rudolph Rudolph, Rudy,
(23:52):
I just like I'm. Putting together that's yeah,
yeah. So together Shorten.
Any of their board meetings because you can just imagine the
power, the head of the householdin the patriarch and then the
children all vying for, you know, roles and, and everyone's
conniving it so fascinating. But and then of course, you have
all the lackeys in the business and those that are vying for
(24:13):
power and position. That is fascinating to watch if
you were just to watch an episode to kind of get a sense
of reading the room. They have lots of board meetings
and meeting. So that's quite interesting.
The other one that I as a Canadian loved was the
interaction where Carney was. I mean, really any White House
(24:33):
interaction really with Trump isfascinating.
Read the room situation at the moment.
So just what if it comes up on the news, just watch it, watch
facial language and they'll be very careful naturally.
But I loved how Carney and that one went viral.
His interaction with Trump whereTrump is like, we're going to,
you know, buy Canada and he and he just as just this calm
demeanor, you can see the wheelsturning in his head and he's
(24:56):
like, well, I've checked with the owners of Canada and it's
not for sale. And there's just these fabulous
interactions of reading of power.
And you come out of that going. I I know who won.
It was fascinating, but that's another great one to to search
anything to want for you. You've mentioned mentioned
height. Decision because I feel like
that power trip stuff, it makes me want to vomit.
(25:18):
Like I really I couldn't watch it.
I was like, and I do think on where you operate in the world
most, I mean, I'm sure there's lots of boardrooms like there
and there's lots of just to me as like to do business that way.
I liked The West Wing. West Wing is my favorite show
anyway, but I really liked, he was a master class in my
opinion, the president of how hechanged the tone in the room a
(25:42):
the physical room. Like he'd sometimes be sitting
on the couches in the Oval Office and that would be less
formal and everyone be welcome to come and sit there.
Other times you notice he sits behind his very intimidating
desk and that showed a differentthing.
Other times they're in meeting rooms, the way he walked in,
when he stood, when he sat. And that was all to me, a really
(26:02):
nuanced vision of creating the right environment for the right
situation. And some of it was collaborative
and having to create that environment, which a lot of
leaders do, where you actually want everyone's voices to be
heard equally. And you want to get that
collaboration, which doesn't come from that succession to a
Stipe meeting. And then other times where you
are making the call and you haveto sort of position yourself in
(26:25):
that way. So I, I think to me, that's an
example of where we can all change the vibe of the room
using to steal from you vibe of the room in a way that is
appropriate for the situation. But that's money because I hate
succession. I think that Oh, so it's a.
Fabulous drama, it was so good. Everyone at least give it a try.
OK, let's chat about some signals to observe in the
(26:49):
upcoming week. So my first suggestion is
observe who opens the meeting, who speaks 1st and who speaks
last. Just take a next meeting.
And did they use that to their advantage in terms of really
creating that vibe and, or summarizing what went on or
(27:09):
action and, and you know, who was it and how did that make you
feel and what did you observe about that?
So that's the first thing to observe.
I would follow up with that one with who's speaking when, and I
don't mean first and last, but throughout the meeting.
I've just come from a webinar. I was watching and there was
this Q&A and there was one person, I don't want to use the
(27:29):
word dominating, but asking a lot of questions in a way that I
was observing and going, is thishelpful or are they getting
irritated because they probably shouldn't because they were good
questions. But there's something about when
that flips over to maybe, I don't know, not being as
welcomed. And I also had a friend who went
to a board meeting and really tested a new approach, which we
(27:52):
love an experimental mindset. And I think we can all do this
every meeting as an experiment where she deliberately passed
every question. She was in a power position in
the room, but passed every question around and then only
did the closing and and she had observed that from someone else
and wanted to test it on for size.
So thinking about throughout themeeting or situation, who's
talking and and how welcomed is that talking and and welcomed,
(28:17):
but also. How?
How? Does it land?
Is it landing with strength and people are paying attention?
Or is it just becoming so? The chitchat in the room.
OK, and I am going to add next lookout for those micro moments.
And so this means actually watching everyone in the room,
depending on where you're sitting, are there some micro
(28:38):
moments that you can pick up of alignment?
So do you see people like quietly nodding, for example, or
jotting down notes? Do you see looks of dissent
between two people that clearly are irritated or don't agree but
unwilling to speak up? So start to look for some of
those moments either of alignment or disagree agreement
in your next meeting. I'd follow that with who's
(29:00):
performing for who. And this is we've just finished
a mini master class on decision making and it was Rhiannon
McKinnon who is an exceptional CEO.
She coaches CE OS and talking about how a lot of us don't flex
that decision making muscle until we have to.
And it's really hard to make decisions, like big decisions
are really hard. You never have enough time, you
(29:20):
never have enough information. How do you make them and how do
you make them? Well, and there's a lot of
meetings that I've been in wherethere is someone in the power
seat and everyone else is performing for them.
And I'm like, what a waste of a meeting.
Like how do we not have the environment where everyone is
contributing to this meeting? So if you are paying attention
to and, and is it the direct leader?
(29:41):
Is it the, are they trying to sort of network up to the CEO,
whatever it is? Or is it that there are, I don't
know, two friends who are like like sort of to add to those
micro moments who are in there taking the piss out a lot of the
meeting and other people in the meeting, Like what are the
things that are happening that are sort of people are doing it
for someone or a bunch of peopleto pay attention to?
(30:05):
Yeah, I will add my final one, which is we already chatted
about this a little bit, but where are people sitting?
Just see if that there's if there's if there's something
there still in a modern workplace, if that's what how
you describe your workplace. But yeah, where are people
sitting and what does that do tothe vibe of the room?
And my final one is neither right or wrong, but the chatter,
(30:26):
the small talk and different cultures have different
approaches to small talk. But who is engaging?
And again, if you're online, whohas got the camera on and having
a chit chat beforehand? Who's sitting there silently,
who's maybe not there because you can't even see all of that,
who's coming and hot, who's coming and friendly, Just pay
(30:46):
attention. And, and this is a, this is a
longitudinal study where you cansee how people might change over
time because that can indicate more so than just a one off how
they behave usually. And that gives you the ability
to see any changes and go, oh, something happened there that I
should check in on or pay attention to or whatever it
(31:08):
might be. Fun Thanks everyone for tuning
in. Pass it along to all of your
colleagues. We want everyone to read the
room. We want you to have a a hyper
advantage in the room, so pleasefeel free to share.
If you have questions about Parasite, we'd love to answer
them. parasite.com. Any last words, Nat?
God be with you. God be with you.
(31:30):
Goodbye. Thanks.
Everyone, we'll catch you next time.
Bye.
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:37):
OK, today we're going to talk about reading the room and all
the little cues and nudges and signals we get if we're paying
attention. But first, Kristen, we are both
huge fans of learning the origins behind words.
And you sent me one today and I feel like we're going to say
goodbye now so you can tell us the origin of the word goodbye.
(01:02):
And then I have one for you. OK, I, Oh my gosh, I can't
remember all the, the details, but from what it was, it was a
few 100 years ago. So back, I don't know, let's say
15th century. It's probably way earlier, like
maybe maybe the 14th century. I have no idea.
But effectively in in England and ye old English people would
say God be with ye, God be with ye.
(01:25):
Every time you left an interaction, God be with ye to
give someone a blessing on theirway.
And because it became such a normal way when you were leaving
one another to say to one another, you started saying it
very quickly, God be with ye, God be with ye go.
I can't even say it quickly enough to get from there to
(01:47):
people started to just shorten it to goodbye.
And so God be with God be with ye turned into goodbye.
That's where a kid came from. Yeah, my one is the origin of
slapstick, slapstick comedy. They used to have a literal
slapstick. And so when you like went to
look like you were slapping someone across the face, they'd
(02:07):
slap the stick and make it look like and make it sound like the
slap hit that you go over on. You are welcome.
I got you. OK, Good one.
I like that we. Were going to start today with a
story of people watching each. Yeah.
Do you have one? I have two.
I have two but fit you jump in with one at any point.
(02:27):
OK. Well, I do want me.
To start, well, I I have literally well, Kyla's just come
back from dropping out foster puppy at back at the SPCA our
the animal shelter and having a foster puppy gives you a lot of
opportunities to read the room because the way people interact
with the puppy, the way they. So there's a couple of things
where people hype up the puppy or the tension rises as people
(02:50):
get stressed about the puppy or telling the puppy off or and you
just like it's just given me a lot of opportunities over the
weekend to go. All the puppy wants is calm, but
all of us, like you see the dynamics responding and
interpreting and wanting something.
And so I think if you have a dogor a pet, pay attention.
That's a really easy, interesting way to see how
(03:12):
people the the, the vibe of the room, the tension, the energy
changes so quickly depending on what the puppy does.
That's so true. That's so true.
That brought back a few memoriesof like, my dog running up to
say hello to someone who may or may not want to touch it,
including a football friend of Grayson's who's Muslim.
(03:34):
And apparently when a dog touches them, it's like, I don't
know you're. It's not good.
For many, many years I Nor did Iuntil I saw.
That part of the Muslim religionis that dogs are dirty.
Or dirty. And it was like if they touch
it, they have to do something. For seven years.
He I did ask about it. After the fact.
Because he looks so frightened of the dog.
(03:55):
Thankfully she never touched him, but but that was so
noticing that was I was like, Ohmy gosh, are you frightened of
the dog? You know, observing those
patterns. But equally, when you have a dog
that goes up to say hello to another dog who might be, what's
it called, like reactionary or something like that, and then
you can just sense the sense, the strength.
Yeah, thankfully my dog is needy, so she does have a OK
(04:16):
recall. But anyway.
But dogs are actually really good at that.
You Watch Dogs come up at each other and they're sniffing and
they're sensing what each other's vibe is and so.
So we should, I'm going to talk about I'm going to so we should
sniff each other's spots. No one ever told me that, by the
way, that that's how they, you know, sent.
Any children who as well? I'm sorry, I had done so much
(04:38):
poo chair in the last week that I'm like, I have to get poo back
out of my vocab. OK good, we will do that here.
I've got 2 recent when I've sat and thought about people
watching and observing. Actually, just more than
watching, observing, I did two things.
Number one was in Japan and I was in Tokyo in Herjuku.
And of course I wanted to see a Herjuku girl who is one of those
(05:02):
beautifully dressed girls. In fact, they are young women
who dress like, I don't know, you might describe it as little
girls, like everything is reallycutesy and frilly and pink and
short and but big platform shoesand they even wear almost.
I know it's not the right term, but doilies on their heads like
everything is like a real. Fashion.
It's a thing. It's a thing started in the 90s
(05:24):
and I was observing A Hajuku girl and I was just going what
like what is it like how does that person engage in the world
around them and how might they even go to work?
Because that would not be acceptable at a workplace in
Japan. What what do they do for a
living? And observing how that person
walked with such confidence dressed up like a little doll.
(05:46):
It was so fascinating. Which led me to research on Hera
Juhu girls. Turns out turns out that it is
an absolute F you to the system.It's completely opposite to what
you might think and because everyone in for the most part in
Japan, if you are an office worker, you wear black.
The men wear black suits, black ties, women wear black skirt
(06:08):
suits and I'm very do more. And Harajuka girl was like
trying to show their feminism and railing against the system
that wanted them to conform as robots.
And that was their expression offeminism of Harajuka girl, which
I found fascinating. So that was a really nice
observation, thinking about a person and then diving into
(06:31):
research, which you and I love. And then the other one was just
yesterday. We stopped in the the gosh,
what's it called? Bunnings?
What is that called? A yeah, Hardware store, home
depart. Yeah, hardware store, hardware
store, home improvement store, building store, whatever stopped
(06:52):
in the store. And I was walking down an aisle,
past an aisle kind of directionless is like my husband
charged ahead to find something.And I heard a little boy whining
and whining up at his dad. But the mum was there too.
So there was a little probably one or two year old that was
whining. And I kind of just watched and
it was really interesting to watch the interaction between
the little boy and the dad and how the dad responded and how
(07:15):
the dad said what do you need and pick the little boy up and
had this conversation with a 1 1/2 year old boy.
And I noticed I was just like noticing how he was responding
to the, I was thinking in no judgment whatsoever.
Like I was actually really curious.
I was like, how might I have responded when my kids were at
that age? And isn't that interesting?
And it got me thinking about howinvolved dads are and how this
(07:37):
person was really in tuned with the emotional needs of his son.
And it was just really interesting to observe that
behavior. And then I moved on.
I I think that you often if, if anyone wants to practice this
observation, I feel like I the example I was going to give as
well was at a restaurant up north when we were on holiday
and our waiter very early on showcased immense amounts of
(08:00):
knowledge about the area. And he was funny and he told
great stories. And then he had a stick about
this is my first day on the job,which of course I didn't
believe. But turns out he left and come
back and watching how he navigated amongst the other
waiters and the other staff and you, you get to pick up on who's
kind of unofficially running theshow.
Caveat here before we move on toactually watching.
(08:22):
This is why we often mention theimportance of not rushing in
light looking frazzled or apologizing profusely or jumping
in with the array of whatever's is because other people are
reading the room. And when you come into a room or
a video call with just like a flurry of negative energy or
frazzled energy or stressed energy, people very quickly pick
(08:45):
up on that. And that that first impression
thing really does matter. And you can sense a alter the
tone very quickly. It does tweak the tone, but also
position yourself as a overwhelmed person.
And that's why those really early cues make a big
difference. So as we're going through this
and think about how your behaviour might be perceived as
(09:07):
you in different situations too.Like we talk about cameras off
all sorts of stuff that have a cue that other people.
Yeah, the reason we wanted to chat about reading the room.
Well, I don't know, probably just it came up in conversation.
We were chatting with para suitors about it.
I mean, that's why and but it's but what we do believe is it
really is a superpower skill. I remember when this whole
(09:27):
concept of EQ came out emotionalquotient.
And while my IQ was fine, my EQ is quite high.
And this concept of social awareness like I tend to and,
and I think without over generalizing, I think women have
needed to pick up on social cuesvery early in our lives, you
know, to, to fit in and to therefore read a room.
(09:49):
So I think it is a superpower skill that many of us have no
stress. If it's something you haven't
noticed or you don't feel it, Wewant to describe what it is
today and how to actually start to flex that muscle because we
have to prepare for the content of our meeting or for what we're
going to deliver or say in that meeting.
We do talk about that quite often and prepping, but what we
(10:12):
think is as important for playing, you know, the political
chess board as you might in a room or in a meeting or a high
stakes conversation is to read the room as well.
And that is probably a really good point to shout out to all
our neurodivergent what are people saying neuro spicy,
people listening. And, and, and we've mentioned
(10:33):
this before, but one of those challenges is, and I've noticed
this more and more about people we call neurotypical, even
though I disagree anyone's typical, some of the
pleasantries, the how I use and the, you know, must do this and
how they're actually incredibly confusing things to say and it
can put someone on the back foot.
(10:53):
So even if you are listening to this thinking, Oh my gosh, I
have low, what is it EQ or I andyou're a divergent and I don't
pick up on usual skills. Use this as a little bit of a
checklist. Usual skills, usual cues, just
use as a checklist. And maybe just see if there's
any way during your next meetingand your next conversation at a
(11:15):
cafe, just pay attention and seeif there's something that you
go, huh, now I'm paying attention to it.
Maybe there's something here that I can really focus on next
time. And, and maybe not, that's fine
too. I just want to be very clear
that not all of us see the worldin the same way.
And that can be utterly confusing.
In this world, some of this stuff, again, like you said is
observable, it's learnable, it can be checklisted.
(11:36):
And and you know, one thing to note is maybe don't start
practicing it in a Zoom or Teamsenvironment because on screen
can be really hard to pick up those cues, which in fact puts I
think those that are calling into zoom on a screen versus
those that are in the room. At the same time, it puts those
that are calling in A at a greatdisadvantage in terms of being
(11:59):
able to read what actually is happening in the room.
So yeah, our we're fans of either everyone on a screen or
or everyone in person. And and like even when we
deliver the dual. Screens not.
That's right, everyone individual screens.
Yeah, because when we deliver events and Oh my gosh, it's
hybrid, it's that you just. It's so tough to engage and read
(12:19):
and yeah, so even in. Waitings, I think we edit it in
our news there a couple of weeksago.
They really, unless you are an expert facilitator, meetings
should be all in person or all on individual devices.
There's very few times I've seenthat hybrid go well and it
really does put people at a disadvantage.
So maybe that's a hot tip to take away.
Nothing else. How do you plan in meetings to
(12:41):
make sure everyone is one or theother and give it an experiment
and see if it makes a difference?
OK, well, I'm going to kick off with a few ways to read the
room. Well, like, what are some things
that we can pick up on before weactually move into a little bit
of a checklist? And maybe things to try this
week is #1 detect the mood. The next time you're in a social
situation with humans in a room,detect the mood.
(13:03):
Or as everyone says, no, the vibes.
I've caught myself using that a little bit too much recently.
You know, the vibes of the yeah,yeah, yeah.
So detect the mood of the room. Is it?
Is it is it really positive and optimistic?
Is it like decision making and action orientated?
Is it, is it a venting room? Like is it a, a space where
(13:24):
people are just airing grievances?
Is there an elephant in the room?
This is something that I remember very frequently when
you got a bunch of senior stakeholders in the room and you
know that those two are at war and this person, like this
person and this big thing is unsaid.
You can just feel that elephant in the room.
Is it notice if there's something going on there?
(13:44):
Notice body language in which sometimes can display energy
levels. Notice the what is, how
distracted or engaged people are, who's on their phone, that
kind of thing. So start to just detect the mood
or the vibe. I'm going to do the second one,
which is going probably one stepbelow that down to individuals
(14:05):
more or groups. And again, this is something
that's really easy to prepare for.
Who are the people doing all thetalking?
Who are the people listening andwriting notes?
Who are the people who have appeared to totally check out?
And the reason I say this is 1 to prep for is you can actually
ask people how they prefer to behave in meetings.
There are people who just think on their feet and they're right
in there. There are people who prefer to
(14:27):
go away and think about it and want to prepare beforehand.
So getting an idea of are the different ways of acting in the
room. Sometimes our gut feel could be
if they're different from us, like the loud people are
dominating and they want their ideas heard, whereas actually
they may just be like that's howthey process.
The quiet people are disengaged.Well, actually that's how they
process. So getting clear on more at a
(14:49):
granular level, who's doing what?
And is it the same as they usually operate or is it
different from how they usually operate?
And even challenging yourself tolook beyond your own biases and
going just because they're behaving like that, does that
mean something? And can I check in with them
afterwards or beforehand next time and say how do you prefer
to run these things? Yeah, like that which lends life
(15:10):
nicely, I think as well to this concept of power and who holds
it in a given situation. And it can jump, of course,
during an engagement, but if youare in a room, it's not
necessarily the person that is most senior who holds the power.
And what we mean by that is, andthat you've also, you sometimes
(15:30):
have referred to like watching The Apprentice and if you just
watch a show, if you just watch a board meeting or of teams
meeting in The Apprentice, quiteoften it's like someone who has,
who others are looking to, you know, there's sometimes that
dynamic or one person will get interrupted more often or who's
(15:51):
shutting interruptions down or who is starting and framing the
conversation, who is summarizingand closing the conversation of
key learnings. That's often a sign of power and
or influence can be used interchangeably in a in a social
setting. And then following from that is
where they sit on whatever the topic is, because again,
(16:13):
sometimes we can perceive silence to be someone who is on
board or happy with what's happening.
And often those are the people who go out and have a separate
meeting or who are silently resisting.
So who is giving you the cues that they are in favour or
against or have questions? And yeah, so I think that that
(16:36):
is also especially because most of the time when we're in
meetings, we're discussing something hopefully.
And this is something that you should practice the whole way
through. And we talk about that a lot
here because we both do a lot ofvideo calls.
And my girlfriend particularly is in large group meetings and
often say, oh, you could tell when someone totally switched
(16:58):
and really didn't like somethingor they were.
And and that's not always anything said.
Sometimes it's a change in face and it will in body language.
And so you start to pick up on those things and again, note
those things down as you go through.
Like it's kind of an interestingexercise to note down, oh, this
changed here because you can go and follow up afterwards and
say, hey, I thought from what I saw, it looked like you
(17:21):
hesitated there. I'm really curious to know if
there was something that you didn't add if they're not
someone who likes to talk on thespot.
Yes, I wanted to just get back to power quickly.
And this might be a whole other podcast of like of, of where to
sit because there's this conceptof of like proximal power.
And what that actually means is literally where you sit and what
(17:45):
it indicates in terms of like your influence.
And that's often like it's a psychological thing of where you
often sit. So the core idea is quite often
there is, as we know, the head of the tables, a lot of board
meetings, the chair will sit at the head or the summon that is
running the meeting. And this is a classic high power
seat. Often the head of a boardroom
(18:06):
table. We see all those shows where
often it was old, you know, backin Oh my gosh, what was that
incredible long running series. It was so good.
Mad Men where it's the dad is atthe head of the Tate dinner
table, like all that stuff. So head of the table was is
possibly still a classic high power seat directly opposite
(18:27):
that puts you in direct visual competition because it is about
eyes on and the head of the table is easiest to have direct
eyes on. So like you position often they
say a negotiation sit directly across the person.
So you've got that like power aswell, that situation of direct
sight of that person. And then equally I've heard of
(18:48):
quite often you know, in a boardroom table and people come
in to observe or something and there's seats on the outside of
the like, not at the table like obvious the worst possible place
for proximal power. Like it literally shows you are
not part of the conversation. Well, the.
Heavens and politics all the time, right?
Like you're sitting along the wall and the real.
Power bridges are the table. I know they're like that.
(19:10):
What are those people called that like shoo them to their
next meetings and prep them. They're like amazing.
But what advisors, what are theycalled anyway?
Yeah, like it kind of show it's an interesting power.
Like they're not the power holders, but nonetheless
they're, you know, supporters. But yeah, I think corners are
seen as the most collaborative and least threatening because it
(19:30):
I don't know why. Like, it's just that a lot of
people. Surrounding people, yeah.
You're open to more. You're in close proximity to
more people. Yeah, exactly.
And I, yeah. Anyway, so interesting in terms
of like proximal power, notice where people sit and why.
Like, like just start the next time go to your meeting.
Yeah, why? But notice where people sit.
(19:51):
That feels like a. Really easy place.
It's funny, I always have a hesitation sitting at the head
of the table. I wonder if that's really
British. But like when we go into
physical meeting rooms, it's very rare I'll sit at the head
of the table. And I think when someone does
these, often a little sort of joke made about, oh, you can be
at the head of the table. So there is like this,
unconscious. This thing there is there an?
Unconscious thing where you wantpeople to feel comfortable and
(20:13):
so you don't. Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's the same as, and I did this once in the US and I
was for power suit doing a workshop for the women's
program. And the CEO, who was a man,
walked in and addressed this group.
And he, the way he did it was very casual, but he stayed
standing. And I was like, oh, sit down
(20:34):
because I was like, you mean to be sitting alongside this group,
like you'd need to come in and assert like, I'm standing.
And like I did tell I sit in a jokey way.
And he actually sat down. And I was just like, oh, come
on, dude. It's like a real power play.
And I was like, I get it. Like you are spending a lot of
time assuming that authority. But in some situations.
(20:56):
Read through. And do it slightly differently.
I would say translating that where you fit in to a virtual
world, a couple of tips there isyou can tell like you can convey
a lot through how someone presents themselves online.
So have it. I think it's probably
controversial. It's probably different people
think different things about thefuzzy backgrounds.
I personally hate them. I feel like it feels weird.
(21:18):
It's like kind of jarring. I don't like obviously do it if
you need to and if you are living in a room where it might
be like a bed behind you or something, you feel
uncomfortable, absolutely fine. Like it's not the end of the
world, but having, you know, having a fun, interesting
background can be a nice thing. But also good lighting, good
lighting and good audio. I've talked to someone the other
(21:39):
day and she was in a car and shecut out like every two minutes
and I was like oh so annoying talking to you because.
All you're thinking about is that, not the substance, not the
relationship. Interesting.
So effectively, how can you create the heat of the table
able seat online? And I think a lot of that is
about the quality of your audio.I mean, I am saying this, do as
(22:00):
I say, not as I do slumming it here in my hoodie and my hair
half brushed. But we're not recording.
We're gonna start doing videos maybe next week of our podcast.
Although if he does a video thisweek I'm putting it up.
OK, well does I say not as I do,but how do you create that heat
of the table vibe? And it is lighting.
There's a lot of tools on your video posture.
(22:21):
Remember was at Kimberly, she did a mini master class.
It's on demand right now for power suitors listening in and
it is literally about you do a zip, you have your feet flat on
the floor and you do a zip from your feet all the way up to the
top of your head. I'm actually doing it right now.
Just imagine me just sitting up straight was zipping my body up
and that is a real I suppose power slash confidence move
(22:45):
when? You're watching the new season
of Oh my gosh, everything we know I got from TV, but I'm
watching the new season of Jury Duty.
You know that reality TV show where he was the only one who
didn't realize it was a reality TV show and.
I saw ads for it but I haven't watched it.
Oh. You should totally watch it,
it's so good. But season 2 is out now and one
other woman is like a almost like a dog electric dog shock
(23:09):
collar thing on every time she slaps and she's like sits up
straight. I'm like I need one of them.
That's so good. I have two examples before we go
into like just some quick invitation tips in terms of
where I've noticed reading the room.
Like if you want to watch it in action, the my first suggestion
(23:30):
is is if you haven't seen Succession Secession, however
you'd like to say it, that is a fabulous and very intense drama.
Love it. It's off the Rudolph family big,
you know, billionaire Australianslash England English.
Say again. What's his name?
Rupert. Murdoch.
Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch, thank you.
Thank you. I like.
How you think? That into Rudolph Rudolph, Rudy,
(23:52):
I just like I'm. Putting together that's yeah,
yeah. So together Shorten.
Any of their board meetings because you can just imagine the
power, the head of the householdin the patriarch and then the
children all vying for, you know, roles and, and everyone's
conniving it so fascinating. But and then of course, you have
all the lackeys in the business and those that are vying for
(24:13):
power and position. That is fascinating to watch if
you were just to watch an episode to kind of get a sense
of reading the room. They have lots of board meetings
and meeting. So that's quite interesting.
The other one that I as a Canadian loved was the
interaction where Carney was. I mean, really any White House
(24:33):
interaction really with Trump isfascinating.
Read the room situation at the moment.
So just what if it comes up on the news, just watch it, watch
facial language and they'll be very careful naturally.
But I loved how Carney and that one went viral.
His interaction with Trump whereTrump is like, we're going to,
you know, buy Canada and he and he just as just this calm
demeanor, you can see the wheelsturning in his head and he's
(24:56):
like, well, I've checked with the owners of Canada and it's
not for sale. And there's just these fabulous
interactions of reading of power.
And you come out of that going. I I know who won.
It was fascinating, but that's another great one to to search
anything to want for you. You've mentioned mentioned
height. Decision because I feel like
that power trip stuff, it makes me want to vomit.
(25:18):
Like I really I couldn't watch it.
I was like, and I do think on where you operate in the world
most, I mean, I'm sure there's lots of boardrooms like there
and there's lots of just to me as like to do business that way.
I liked The West Wing. West Wing is my favorite show
anyway, but I really liked, he was a master class in my
opinion, the president of how hechanged the tone in the room a
(25:42):
the physical room. Like he'd sometimes be sitting
on the couches in the Oval Office and that would be less
formal and everyone be welcome to come and sit there.
Other times you notice he sits behind his very intimidating
desk and that showed a differentthing.
Other times they're in meeting rooms, the way he walked in,
when he stood, when he sat. And that was all to me, a really
(26:02):
nuanced vision of creating the right environment for the right
situation. And some of it was collaborative
and having to create that environment, which a lot of
leaders do, where you actually want everyone's voices to be
heard equally. And you want to get that
collaboration, which doesn't come from that succession to a
Stipe meeting. And then other times where you
are making the call and you haveto sort of position yourself in
(26:25):
that way. So I, I think to me, that's an
example of where we can all change the vibe of the room
using to steal from you vibe of the room in a way that is
appropriate for the situation. But that's money because I hate
succession. I think that Oh, so it's a.
Fabulous drama, it was so good. Everyone at least give it a try.
OK, let's chat about some signals to observe in the
(26:49):
upcoming week. So my first suggestion is
observe who opens the meeting, who speaks 1st and who speaks
last. Just take a next meeting.
And did they use that to their advantage in terms of really
creating that vibe and, or summarizing what went on or
(27:09):
action and, and you know, who was it and how did that make you
feel and what did you observe about that?
So that's the first thing to observe.
I would follow up with that one with who's speaking when, and I
don't mean first and last, but throughout the meeting.
I've just come from a webinar. I was watching and there was
this Q&A and there was one person, I don't want to use the
(27:29):
word dominating, but asking a lot of questions in a way that I
was observing and going, is thishelpful or are they getting
irritated because they probably shouldn't because they were good
questions. But there's something about when
that flips over to maybe, I don't know, not being as
welcomed. And I also had a friend who went
to a board meeting and really tested a new approach, which we
(27:52):
love an experimental mindset. And I think we can all do this
every meeting as an experiment where she deliberately passed
every question. She was in a power position in
the room, but passed every question around and then only
did the closing and and she had observed that from someone else
and wanted to test it on for size.
So thinking about throughout themeeting or situation, who's
talking and and how welcomed is that talking and and welcomed,
(28:17):
but also. How?
How? Does it land?
Is it landing with strength and people are paying attention?
Or is it just becoming so? The chitchat in the room.
OK, and I am going to add next lookout for those micro moments.
And so this means actually watching everyone in the room,
depending on where you're sitting, are there some micro
(28:38):
moments that you can pick up of alignment?
So do you see people like quietly nodding, for example, or
jotting down notes? Do you see looks of dissent
between two people that clearly are irritated or don't agree but
unwilling to speak up? So start to look for some of
those moments either of alignment or disagree agreement
in your next meeting. I'd follow that with who's
(29:00):
performing for who. And this is we've just finished
a mini master class on decision making and it was Rhiannon
McKinnon who is an exceptional CEO.
She coaches CE OS and talking about how a lot of us don't flex
that decision making muscle until we have to.
And it's really hard to make decisions, like big decisions
are really hard. You never have enough time, you
(29:20):
never have enough information. How do you make them and how do
you make them? Well, and there's a lot of
meetings that I've been in wherethere is someone in the power
seat and everyone else is performing for them.
And I'm like, what a waste of a meeting.
Like how do we not have the environment where everyone is
contributing to this meeting? So if you are paying attention
to and, and is it the direct leader?
(29:41):
Is it the, are they trying to sort of network up to the CEO,
whatever it is? Or is it that there are, I don't
know, two friends who are like like sort of to add to those
micro moments who are in there taking the piss out a lot of the
meeting and other people in the meeting, Like what are the
things that are happening that are sort of people are doing it
for someone or a bunch of peopleto pay attention to?
(30:05):
Yeah, I will add my final one, which is we already chatted
about this a little bit, but where are people sitting?
Just see if that there's if there's if there's something
there still in a modern workplace, if that's what how
you describe your workplace. But yeah, where are people
sitting and what does that do tothe vibe of the room?
And my final one is neither right or wrong, but the chatter,
(30:26):
the small talk and different cultures have different
approaches to small talk. But who is engaging?
And again, if you're online, whohas got the camera on and having
a chit chat beforehand? Who's sitting there silently,
who's maybe not there because you can't even see all of that,
who's coming and hot, who's coming and friendly, Just pay
(30:46):
attention. And, and this is a, this is a
longitudinal study where you cansee how people might change over
time because that can indicate more so than just a one off how
they behave usually. And that gives you the ability
to see any changes and go, oh, something happened there that I
should check in on or pay attention to or whatever it
(31:08):
might be. Fun Thanks everyone for tuning
in. Pass it along to all of your
colleagues. We want everyone to read the
room. We want you to have a a hyper
advantage in the room, so pleasefeel free to share.
If you have questions about Parasite, we'd love to answer
them. parasite.com. Any last words, Nat?
God be with you. God be with you.
(31:30):
Goodbye. Thanks.
Everyone, we'll catch you next time.
Bye.
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