May 18, 2026 • 30 mins
Turns out there's actual science behind why you do everything for everyone else before yourself. Nat and Kristen dig into the biology of why women are literally wired to put others first and how decades of conditioning piles on top to make self-prioritisation feels uncomfortable. They cover what finally pushes women to make a change, plus genuinely small ways to start reclaiming your time without a personality overhaul. Also: golf course rule enforcers, the husband who always changed his clothes first, and why sitting in a café doing nothing is actually a powr move.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:38):
I wanted to start today, Nat, with oxytocin as you do, because
I learned about oxytocin. Women produce it much.
I mean, more than men. Maybe men don't, I don't know.
Anyway, I learned about oxytocinwhen I had babies, and
apparently that you produce oxytocin when you are feeding
(00:59):
your babies. Like you keep your babies alive.
You have this really emotional strong feeling towards another
human being. And no doubt biologically it's
so that we keep these little people alive, like we have this
real biological need to keep people alive.
So I learned about oxytocin, which is interesting.
And the reason we're talking about it is we're trying to dig
(01:20):
into this concept of why women, and we're going to chat about it
today, why women feel guilty about so many things about, you
know, letting others down and, and needing to put others 1st.
And this like sense of like constantly, I don't know.
Well, frankly, not putting ourselves first.
So oxytocin, believe it or not, is one of the reasons why like
(01:44):
we are biologically wired to putothers 1st.
And oxytocin can be released in a whole bunch of scenarios and
one of them is, yes, having kids, but another is when you're
in the fight or flight mode, youimmediately have oxytocin, which
means you put other people before yourself biologically.
I love it. I was, I wasn't Googling whether
(02:05):
or not you can help it, but I did think it might be
interesting to just do a little deep dive into how all these
different sort of what are they called chemicals work together.
Yeah, dopamine. We often talk about dopamine and
the reason we talk about dopamine is because it's usually
released when you achieve something.
So like, or eat something. So it's like that kind of it's a
(02:28):
reward. It's it's released as a reward.
So, you know, we get it when youlike, scroll infinite scrolls
and tick off a micro goal or have a really nice meal or, you
know, all of that sort of stuff and it gives you a rush from
achieving something. Serotonin is because, yeah,
they're all kind of interesting.What's that again?
(02:50):
What serotonin? Is reward and motivation
serotonin? Is calmness and stability
really. So I'm just doing a very high
level. And so it'll make you feel
contented and calm and it's released and interestingly by
well released by sunlight. Exercise, meditation totally
makes sense. Healthy eating and oxytopin is
(03:10):
bonding and connection, so it's released by physical affection,
which is why babies give it to you.
Cuddling, hugging, social interactive interaction,
breastfeeding, social recognition.
So it's a really like interconnected sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure I can't rememberwhich one it is.
I always, I always think, is it serotonin that is released
(03:31):
through pain? More like exercise.
So you know, you get it because you feel the pain and it kind of
kicks in. I don't know.
Or maybe maybe it's because the pain is over, the achievement
might. Be it might be, I thought it was
oxytocin too, but it's not. So just for anyone who's
interested because yeah, we, there's all of these different
chemicals and I think they're often used in different ways.
(03:51):
Yeah, when when I when I think about it, I and babies cry.
So it is released also in times of stress and fight or flight.
And so I think that concept likeI get really triggered when I
hear my children fight or when Iheard them as babies cry.
And I would always notice my husband didn't.
(04:11):
And I think that possibly that was classic oxytocin release of
needing to tend and care for others outside of myself, which
I found so interesting. And I'm not sure at what point
that ever goes away or or changes.
But what I did notice, this is what I noticed while both of my
husband, my husband and I were working and the kids were, I
(04:33):
don't know, school age or something.
We'd get home, both of us, Kyle and I, at the same time.
We'd walk home from work and it would be a long walk uphill and
we'd get home slightly sweaty and disheveled and the children
might be home. They were still young, though.
And so there were, you know, dinner, grumpy people and dinner
to be fed and things to be done for others other than yourself.
(04:54):
And this is what I noticed everysingle time I would stay in my
work clothes and I would immediately tend to those
children because the pain of thewhining and the stress of
children being unhappy was a lotfor me at that time and to the
point where I didn't care about my sweaty, sweaty self.
My husband, what did he do? He would take his work clothes
(05:15):
off, go and have a shower and change into other clothes.
And that was literally a routine.
And I found that fascinating. And this helps.
I think this helps the very first layer because I think the
second is social conditioning, which we should talk about.
But yeah, I just found that really interesting.
And by the way, he he's not likeKyle's great.
He really is a partner in all things.
(05:36):
I feel like I need to. But that was a that was a
classic. Like kids crying didn't bother
him like. No.
And I think that is actually a really critical thing to get
across is that it's actually notabout whether or not you're a
good or bad person. It's just that we actually are
run by these chemicals. And if you've got a strong hit,
if you've taken 1/2 of the oxytocin, we're probably going
to be responding pretty differently.
(05:57):
The final one in the four which I started was endorphins, which
I feel like I'm very ripped off with because I have never had
the endorphin high after running.
That's the one. That's the painkiller.
No, doesn't work for me. I just find exercise.
How do you know? Because everyone goes when
they've been running for a long time.
They're like, but don't you get the runner's high?
(06:18):
And don't you just love that feeling after exercise?
And I'm like, no, I'm puffed andI'm tired.
I do feel good afterwards. But like, I don't know, can we
count that as endorphins? Anyway, what we're talking about
today is this kind of, and, and we've gone down immediately a
massive tangent, but I think it's like kind of an important
one because it's both our socialization, our conditioning
(06:39):
and our chemicals. And then also probably how they
work together to create different habits, behaviours,
mindsets, all of that sort of stuff.
And one of the things we have noticed a lot recently is
especially as we get new power suitors on, some members start,
they get up and running really quickly, they are really
engaged, they really understand what they're trying to achieve
(07:00):
and they get cracking. Others, however, kind of get
stumped at the first hurdle. And what we've realized that
first hurdle boils down to is I deserve to invest time in
myself. It is that simple and it is
undoing years of conditioning tosay that I am allowed to
prioritize time spent on myself.And we just thought that was so
(07:22):
fascinating how widespread it isthat we don't.
And it's unconscious as well. Like no one's sitting there
going, I don't deserve this. It's just that they, on
autopilot, undermine or deprioritize anything that they
perceive to be selfish, like something that they don't
immediately see a benefit for other people and they will just
put everything else on top of it.
(07:43):
Yeah. And I think it was important to
layer to, to start with biology because there is something about
how we are literally wired in our the hormones that we produce
to to put others first before ourselves.
But then it's reinforced and reinforced and reinforced.
And you talked about conditioning.
So I think it's worthwhile us chatting about, I don't know,
just some other experiences or stuff that we've heard.
(08:07):
I was reading recently about a, a study where University of
Toronto in Canada talked found and this is 2025.
So I know we, we've, we've studied girls and boys and and
gendered situations in schools for a long time.
But this is really recent. And girls as young as primary
age school prioritize their teachers instructions.
So doing well, listening and obeying over their own problem
(08:29):
solving ideas, whereas they found boys, pushed back and
explored alternatives. And that is like the perfect
breeding ground for social conformity that takes root, you
know, no doubt in the home and at the school.
Really interesting. And there's also probably layers
over that of the girls clocked really early that if they
(08:52):
prioritize their teachers instructions, they'd probably
get rewarded for that as being the good kids in the classroom
and that they really delivered and all of that sort of stuff.
Actually, I was talking to someone the other day, a golfer,
and they were talking about women who are probably in their
60s, seventies, playing golf andhow they have a higher
likelihood of being really fixated on rules and like, you
(09:16):
have to play this way. And this is the hierarchy of the
golf course and really caring about the structure and the
order and almost getting taking it upon themselves to to really
enforce that across a golf course.
And I just thought it's sort of at the extreme other end age
wise of the primary school. It's like we're sort of rewarded
our entire lives for like payingattention to rules, following
(09:37):
the rules, the end and finding that sort of structure.
And it kind of leads to some interesting, interesting actions
as a result or mindsets as a result.
Well, we've got a whole talk on syndromes, and most of them
originate. I mean, whatever.
I won't go into where they originated, but how they're
manifested is that women are ultimately putting others before
(10:00):
themselves or things before their own well-being.
And so it could be things like how I look.
It could be things like how I navigate my relationships or how
I navigate the classroom or the workforce.
The point is, is it's like everyone before me and before,
like my authentic needs, like what is real to me and what is
(10:23):
and I and what is what feels authentic.
And I think it all comes down toto between biological, you know,
hormones and all this conditioning, ultimately what it
comes down to is like, Oh my goodness, the biggest barriers
ever to put ourselves first. Like in none of those scenarios
(10:44):
do we shower first. Yeah.
And do we think about what what we want first?
There was actually a really goodquote in Chicago Fire, which I
am rewatching. And the father said to the son,
there's only one person in this world you never want to
disappoint and that's yourself. And I just thought and and
actually I've heard it said recently on Instagram, my other
(11:06):
source of information, there aretwo people in the world you need
to impress, 8 year old you and 80 year old you and that's it.
And I just thought it's something that flies in the face
of everything we're taught. Actually, it just reminded me,
we've been thinking a little bitrecently about how what does
that not looks, but how we present ourselves, our physical
(11:27):
appearance from, you know, how our bodies look and how we
dress. How if we are going to start
addressing some of that in the power suit platform, like are we
going to run some? Because, you know, it takes up a
lot of brain space and that brain space could be used in
more effectively. And I have a natural hesitancy
against it because I'm like, oh gosh, I don't want to like spend
more time talking about how women look.
(11:49):
But it is a really interesting because that flows onto this
too. It's that whole like just our
brain space is constantly taken up with how other people
perceive or making sure we look appropriate for other people,
we're attractive to other peopleor we're polite and we're
acceptable. So it probably all does sort of
circle around the same area. Well, and if it wasn't for
COVID, wouldn't many of us stillbe wearing high heels in the
(12:11):
workplace? Yeah, RIP.
Although I have noticed some people are bringing them back
and I will fight them fiercely with my with my wardrobe full of
my museum wardrobe full of my high heels that I haven't thrown
out yet. Like my toenails are still
munted so that I could fit in. And all power to people who love
them. I love heels.
(12:32):
Of course, of course. But it is so interesting.
It's a fear. It's this fear of being rejected
that it is, oh gosh, it's so deeply ingrained.
It's going to take so much time to unwind it.
But I think ultimately, what aresome patterns do you think of
people that breakthrough the other side?
And for the like, what is it that causes people to wake up
(12:55):
and go enough? I'm putting myself 1st and part
of this is future me. Isn't it?
Like the time and investment that we take to invest in
ourselves today is often about future me.
And I think actually that's another issue, isn't it?
We often don't think about future me, but any thoughts on?
I, I mean, I feel like I've accidentally fallen into this
(13:16):
through kind of, I talk a lot about the life escalator and
anytime you step off that life escalator, you're effectively
going against social norms and what people expect of you.
And you get pushed back. And the more you get pushed
back, the more you realize it really doesn't impact you that
much. So I think like in my life,
things like deciding not to havechildren, gosh, amazing how many
people have very big thoughts about women deciding not to have
(13:39):
children about like, you know, are we just here for biological
reproduction? Like that feels like the
argument that a lot of people have given me over the years,
like, well, is that what you think our role on this planet
is? All those are way through to
being accused of being selfish for not wanting children.
And I'm like, just feel like oneof the most selfish acts in the
world is having children. But sure, I'm the selfish 1.
(14:00):
So like that real push on what you are meant to do and if you
don't do it, you get the push back.
And then same with not getting married.
Same actually when I met Kyla and was like, Oh yeah, now I'm
gay. That's going to be an
interesting confusing time for the people around me.
Turns out it wasn't. But all of those little things,
and I think they can get, I mean, those are relatively big
(14:20):
ones, but getting down to smaller things, doing something
that doesn't fit the norm is such a nice way to build up
capacity to cope with that social push back and realize
that it doesn't matter. I think people who've travelled
overseas, sometimes they might have had to put up with pressure
from their family to not do it or, you know, taking a job that
(14:42):
may not be the job that they're expected to have.
All of that sort of stuff. I think it can help you build up
that muscle of going, Oh yeah, Idon't have to do what other
people tell me to do. I think also life events.
So what I've heard from you is life choices, life events
possibly and even age and life events.
(15:04):
I mean quite often it when I hear women who are finally
putting themselves 1st and taking back control, it's a
result of divorce. I'm a relationship breakup.
It could be illness of a family member or it could be a parent
that passes away. I've noticed that women
completely go oh, it's just reality check of life short.
(15:26):
I am unhappy. I am making a change.
And then I would say age. And I, I recall thinking, I was
curious about why I had, why I was reacting in a certain way a
few weeks ago, could have been months now.
And I remember thinking, what a yeah, what is time?
It was surely months, not weeks.And I remember going, isn't that
(15:48):
weird? I have time to think about
myself and why I act in the way that I do.
And I've probably always had time.
But the point was as my time went into my children up until
this year, and now I'm actually taking reclaiming that time,
spending far less emotional energy on them and more on
myself. And so I found that interesting
in terms of life stage with kidsleaving home.
(16:10):
And then apparently, and I'm nearing it in your 50s, you just
don't care anymore. So yeah, that's interesting.
I really. Like that, because I think
you're right that that is a really beautiful combination of
there is the literal reality of you had children that you had to
focus on. And then in kind of that is this
(16:31):
perception of while I have kids,I must not think about how I
feel. I'm putting words in your mouth,
but it's it that kind of nuancedchallenge here, right, that it's
like this kind of combination ofthere's no like clear cut, like
if only we just changed this, wewouldn't feel it.
But I do think age the, the, thereason why I think age has an
effect is because those life experiences, right?
(16:52):
And you and I do like your examples of like health and
divorce and life events, losing a job and or even getting a job.
Like I've noticed that with people who've made it to the
exact dream job and then realized how deeply unhappy they
are. And that sort of had the same
impact of forcing them to go. Who am I trying to impress with
this job? Because turns out it's not me.
(17:13):
And I think the thing and, and then I was going to say the only
other one that I've noticed, andwe talk about this a lot with
imposter phenomenon and the question we often ask when
someone says, I feel like an impostor, especially when it's
going for another job. We're like, OK, well, who else
would do it better? And as soon as they realize that
they're up against the sort of mediocre guy sitting next to
them, the hostile syndrome dyspnea, and is replaced with
(17:36):
quite a, quite a, quite a conviction that they are in fact
the best person for the job. And so it's almost like these
little nudges that just gets us out of fantasy land or like the
conditioning land and forces us to face what's actually in front
of us sometimes. I was reading a few we, we ask
our members to fill out a quick form when they joined power Suit
(17:59):
and it's a great time for them to reflect on what's important
to them or how they're going with their career.
But also then we can tailor their first few months on power
Suit to support those goals. And what I've been struck by is
an increasing amount of people who are going, I need, it's time
to figure out what it is that I want and what matters to me and
(18:20):
my career. So that's, you know, quite often
we have a lot of people join during transitions like feeling
stuck and not sure but the next step or they've stepped up and
looking to find their feet. And so there is a contingent of
real transition and leveraging power suit and investing in
themselves to finally for the first time do that.
What I can't like if I were to take life big traumatic life
(18:44):
events away and and natural seasons of life and and maybe
menopause and in your 50s and 60s.
But what what? I'm just curious.
How could we I don't know. How could we reverse?
Yeah. How do we deconstruct it And so
that everybody can start to put themselves first, like today?
(19:04):
Divorced, do you think? Yeah, like we can't avoid.
Or like have a health scare or something like, God forbid it
like what you what is the thing that would be easy, that almost
like, how do you, how do we, howcan we manufacture endorphins
for Nat, which I've searched by the way, and we'll talk about
that after, but it's the same thing.
I'm like, how can we wake up? And, and you know those micro
(19:25):
feminism moments you see on reels, You're like my micro
feminist moment for today was I'm not to say sorry when the
guy bumped into me on the sidewalk.
So but. What is the microphone, Kristen?
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Nat tell me a good story on the
weekend, but that what what's the thing where we can have a
micro moment of against biology and against this conditioning of
(19:47):
putting ourselves first tomorrowmorning?
Like what is the thing, Nat? OK, I have some ideas because I
think we've both been practicingthis a lot over the last five to
10 years. So we we talk about this at the
end of every year when we talk about going into a sort of a
couple of week break or a week break and how hard it is for
people to rest because we feel so guilty when we rest.
(20:08):
So I feel like the easiest microway to practice this is is
indulgent rest and and you can do that tomorrow like you
literally said when we wake up. Have a cup of coffee, sit down
in a nice chair and stare out the window and do nothing.
Don't try and multitask like packing lunches or anything.
Just like stop and do the thing or go sit in the sun and read a
(20:31):
book for 10 minutes. Or one of the things I'm trying
to practice now is when I'm at aCafe or bar, I try and arrive a
little bit early and instead of jumping on my phone, I just sit
and observe the room. And just like there's something
that like rewires my brain thereto feel like I am like this
person who is just running around and just like comfortable
and observing. So it's just like taking those
(20:52):
5-10 minutes of doing something that feels micro indulgent.
Like it's, you're not trying to cram something else and there's
no purpose to it other than restor enjoyment and something that
you love to do. There is no other benefit other
than you loving to do it or finding it relaxing.
And I think that for me anyway, a few years ago, I found
(21:15):
incredibly hot because on a weekend I'd feel like I failed
my weekend if I hadn't crammed it full of product, productive
activities. And now I feel like a weekend is
a success if I spent 4 hours watching Chicago Fire, eating
popcorn, and having a glass of, I don't know, martini.
I feel like there's a rewiring of our brain and belief system
(21:35):
at the same time, because what invariably might happen when
people do this is immediately there'll be a sense of guilt or
shame or unease, uneasiness around.
I don't deserve this time, or I should be.
I could be like the again of course in this.
You think, no, that's the like 5-10 minute element of it.
Like just practice it rather than try.
(21:57):
And like because I have a friendwho's literally taken the week
off. She's in a pretty, you know,
she's had a pretty rough couple of months.
She's taken the week off and sheis practicing this all week.
She is deliberately not packed out her week with stuff.
She's booked brunches, she's booked a manicure one day, she's
booked, you know, eyebrows done another day she's booked
cocktails one day. She's got like, I'm going to go
(22:18):
swimming one day, whatever it isthat is advanced and I think
she's been practicing a lot overthe last few years.
But starting with just one of those activities in the week and
not or a coffee and not cramminganything else around it and just
going, I deserve 5 minutes to sit and enjoy my coffee and my
muffin or whatever it is. And if I have to get up and do
everything for the other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the day,
(22:42):
that's fine. But this 5 minutes is mine.
Yeah, I love this. This is a trust the process
thing. This is an actual trust the
process. Just start taking the time, then
you'll claim more of it and and no doubt mindset shifts as well.
Yeah, I like that. I like that.
I like that. Do you think?
I mean, I feel like if you go upanother level, I, I realized a
while ago the meaning of life for me is just joy.
(23:03):
Like don't leave the planet worse than you found it.
But I can't really see another purpose of it, of life.
It's like we want to take the world forward that brings joy,
but like it's kind of the whole purpose.
So if you kind of are finding yourself living a world in a
life where it's about everyone else and there's no joy for you,
I kind of feel like, oh, but that kind of feels like that's
(23:24):
the mindset shift that I feel like takes it a little bit
longer to to embed if that's notwhere you're currently
operating. Well, it's interesting though,
because before this call, you told me about such immense joy
that you had by planning someoneelse's Mother's Day event.
And like, that would contradict what you said, but actually that
(23:46):
brought you a huge amount of joy.
As in doing something? Yes, doing stuff.
Yeah. Is that joy?
I feel like he's there's joy. I feel like that's I would no,
sorry, I'm going to start that again.
Isn't that joy? Is that hard?
I feel like what they say often is when you are feeling down or
life is tough, one of the easiest ways you can easiest
(24:08):
mood boosters you can do have isdoing something for someone
else. It is like such a easy mood
booster. So I don't know, but I think
that's quite different because that's a surprising delight
versus a packing her lunch everyday probably wouldn't do
that. No, no, no.
The mundaneness versus surprising delight.
I love that. OK, So I just, I'm glad that
we've raised this whole chemicalthing because I do think it is
(24:31):
important for us to realize thatin times of stress or whatever,
all sorts of chemicals are in fact coursing through our
bodies, which make us put other people first.
I think being aware of that is really interesting.
Second thing is trust the process of giving yourself back
a little bit of time. And that I just want to end on
for me, a quick ways to get yournatural endorphins.
(24:52):
So if you don't feel them through exercise, I think you
feel these through a couple waysand I'm going to one of them is
laughter. Yes.
OK. Second is music.
Yeah, which I would say for you.And then there's some food stuff
which I'm like, no, I haven't really seen.
You experience endorphins with dark chocolate, so forget that.
Or meditation. Yeah, exactly.
(25:15):
And I have, yes, spicy food and dark.
Yeah. It's like no meditation.
I haven't really seen you do that.
However, cold exposure. Didn't you go for a cold?
Didn't you go for the cold swim?And you were like.
Yeah, that's fine. But you know, we live in a cold
country. Cold water is all around us.
I I don't. Music and laughter.
Is very healthy I'm going to understand I'll die on the hell
(25:37):
because I don't want to go in cold water No, I think all those
things probably helpful but I would like to get it from
exercise because it would be a nice function to.
Go E to living. It's the reward, isn't it?
Maybe you just have to give yourself a little.
I don't know. What do you what do you want to
treat yourself with these days? Well, I would think we're going
to ask you the same question to wrap this one up is what have
you done or what are you planning to do in the next week?
(25:58):
That is a thing you just do for yourself.
This week is a good week in termof events.
I've got Girls Night tonight. I've got Girls movie.
Night tonight. Yeah, I've got a girl a golfing,
golfing night tonight, so I'll be at the drive in about 5 hours
time. I've got girls movie night for
(26:19):
Devil Wears Prada 2 tomorrow night and then I've got the
Banff Mountain Film Festival, which is so inspiring, wasn't
it? So I'm like I got lots of.
Oh, that's nice. I might see what band I'm going.
That will be fun. I'm looking forward to that.
Yeah. I feel like those things.
I went to a jazz thing on the weekend and this is, this is
interesting. This is actually probably that.
(26:40):
Would be my worst nightmare. A jazz thing.
But anyway you. Know what I think?
This is where I struggle. So it was like classic
Wellington hipster. I was like, it's a cool venue
and it's a really cool band and they sing Kendrick Lamar.
Well, they don't sing them. They play Kendrick Lamar's
music, but it's jazz. And then they like sample his
voice. And so then so I did that and
it's delightful. And at one point I went to get a
(27:00):
drink and then I just sort of wandered into the crowd and just
like boogied on my own for a couple of minutes and was like,
because I was like in that vibe,you know, when everyone's in
that doesn't feel, you're not like the first dancer.
But I realized at the start of the night I was really stressed
because I need to go to sleep early and I don't understand how
these things work. So doors open to 8.
So I was like, OK, doors open to8.
The console will start at 8:30 and we'll be out of there by 10.
(27:23):
And I forget that cool people don't do that.
So actually the pre act started at like 8:45 and then it was
like 930 by the time the actual act started.
And I spent the first part of the night feeling really
stressed about letting everyone else down because I didn't want
to get to the point that I was so tired that I wanted to leave.
You know that yuck feeling. I'm so used to that feeling.
And So what I did is I said to all my friends, there is a good
(27:47):
chance I'm going to leave in thenext half an hour.
And they all just looked at me because they know me and they're
like, sure. And then I could relax and just
enjoy myself without worry. The.
Pressure the expectation, yeah, that just.
Occurred to me that might be there's some something in there
around saying like recognizing when you are very much freaking
(28:08):
out about everyone else's expectations on you that they do
not have often and and either addressing them internally or by
asking the question. Because that really relaxed me,
knowing that I was fine, I couldjust go home if I wanted to.
I love it. Name it.
I also, before you wrap up, havea word, an origin word.
(28:28):
OK, go. Do you know the origin of the
word salary? SALARY, Salary.
How we get paid? Darna No.
Right. Tell me.
Well, apparently it comes from the Latin solarium, meaning salt
money. In ancient times, salt was used
for many important things and was often referred to as white
(28:50):
gold. It could be used as an
antiseptic to treat wounds that could preserve food and also was
a form of payment in Greece and Rome.
So labourers were paid with saltthat they could use to preserve
their food, and the Roman Empirecontinued using this form of
payment and it took the name celery.
I love it. That's great.
(29:12):
We're. Going to start paying people in
salt. Salt or bread or something?
Something other than cash? Let's see.
Need a trading economy again? Very good.
Everyone check out powersuit.com.
Let us know what you are going to do for yourself this week.
Yeah, 5 minutes. Go enjoy it.
(29:32):
We've actually got a friend staying with us and they woke up
at like 11:30 and came out beinglike good morning.
And I was like, get it. Like it's so interesting that we
have that worry that people are going to be think we're lazy.
And I'm like, you are on holiday.
You do what you. Want.
Isn't that? Funny that like, all of it, all
of that, these little things allday every day that kind of crop
into our minds of like. I should I could.
(29:54):
I know, I know. Notice that this weekend
everyone, or this week I should say.
Anyway, Take care everyone and we will catch you next time.
Bye.
Welcome to Power Up, the podcastthat uncovers the unique
challenges women leaders face today.
Join your hosts Nat and Kristen as we dive into the tough topics
and provide actionable insights you can apply right now.
Don't forget to hit subscribe soyou don't miss any episodes.
(00:38):
I wanted to start today, Nat, with oxytocin as you do, because
I learned about oxytocin. Women produce it much.
I mean, more than men. Maybe men don't, I don't know.
Anyway, I learned about oxytocinwhen I had babies, and
apparently that you produce oxytocin when you are feeding
(00:59):
your babies. Like you keep your babies alive.
You have this really emotional strong feeling towards another
human being. And no doubt biologically it's
so that we keep these little people alive, like we have this
real biological need to keep people alive.
So I learned about oxytocin, which is interesting.
And the reason we're talking about it is we're trying to dig
(01:20):
into this concept of why women, and we're going to chat about it
today, why women feel guilty about so many things about, you
know, letting others down and, and needing to put others 1st.
And this like sense of like constantly, I don't know.
Well, frankly, not putting ourselves first.
So oxytocin, believe it or not, is one of the reasons why like
(01:44):
we are biologically wired to putothers 1st.
And oxytocin can be released in a whole bunch of scenarios and
one of them is, yes, having kids, but another is when you're
in the fight or flight mode, youimmediately have oxytocin, which
means you put other people before yourself biologically.
I love it. I was, I wasn't Googling whether
(02:05):
or not you can help it, but I did think it might be
interesting to just do a little deep dive into how all these
different sort of what are they called chemicals work together.
Yeah, dopamine. We often talk about dopamine and
the reason we talk about dopamine is because it's usually
released when you achieve something.
So like, or eat something. So it's like that kind of it's a
(02:28):
reward. It's it's released as a reward.
So, you know, we get it when youlike, scroll infinite scrolls
and tick off a micro goal or have a really nice meal or, you
know, all of that sort of stuff and it gives you a rush from
achieving something. Serotonin is because, yeah,
they're all kind of interesting.What's that again?
(02:50):
What serotonin? Is reward and motivation
serotonin? Is calmness and stability
really. So I'm just doing a very high
level. And so it'll make you feel
contented and calm and it's released and interestingly by
well released by sunlight. Exercise, meditation totally
makes sense. Healthy eating and oxytopin is
(03:10):
bonding and connection, so it's released by physical affection,
which is why babies give it to you.
Cuddling, hugging, social interactive interaction,
breastfeeding, social recognition.
So it's a really like interconnected sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure I can't rememberwhich one it is.
I always, I always think, is it serotonin that is released
(03:31):
through pain? More like exercise.
So you know, you get it because you feel the pain and it kind of
kicks in. I don't know.
Or maybe maybe it's because the pain is over, the achievement
might. Be it might be, I thought it was
oxytocin too, but it's not. So just for anyone who's
interested because yeah, we, there's all of these different
chemicals and I think they're often used in different ways.
(03:51):
Yeah, when when I when I think about it, I and babies cry.
So it is released also in times of stress and fight or flight.
And so I think that concept likeI get really triggered when I
hear my children fight or when Iheard them as babies cry.
And I would always notice my husband didn't.
(04:11):
And I think that possibly that was classic oxytocin release of
needing to tend and care for others outside of myself, which
I found so interesting. And I'm not sure at what point
that ever goes away or or changes.
But what I did notice, this is what I noticed while both of my
husband, my husband and I were working and the kids were, I
(04:33):
don't know, school age or something.
We'd get home, both of us, Kyle and I, at the same time.
We'd walk home from work and it would be a long walk uphill and
we'd get home slightly sweaty and disheveled and the children
might be home. They were still young, though.
And so there were, you know, dinner, grumpy people and dinner
to be fed and things to be done for others other than yourself.
(04:54):
And this is what I noticed everysingle time I would stay in my
work clothes and I would immediately tend to those
children because the pain of thewhining and the stress of
children being unhappy was a lotfor me at that time and to the
point where I didn't care about my sweaty, sweaty self.
My husband, what did he do? He would take his work clothes
(05:15):
off, go and have a shower and change into other clothes.
And that was literally a routine.
And I found that fascinating. And this helps.
I think this helps the very first layer because I think the
second is social conditioning, which we should talk about.
But yeah, I just found that really interesting.
And by the way, he he's not likeKyle's great.
He really is a partner in all things.
(05:36):
I feel like I need to. But that was a that was a
classic. Like kids crying didn't bother
him like. No.
And I think that is actually a really critical thing to get
across is that it's actually notabout whether or not you're a
good or bad person. It's just that we actually are
run by these chemicals. And if you've got a strong hit,
if you've taken 1/2 of the oxytocin, we're probably going
to be responding pretty differently.
(05:57):
The final one in the four which I started was endorphins, which
I feel like I'm very ripped off with because I have never had
the endorphin high after running.
That's the one. That's the painkiller.
No, doesn't work for me. I just find exercise.
How do you know? Because everyone goes when
they've been running for a long time.
They're like, but don't you get the runner's high?
(06:18):
And don't you just love that feeling after exercise?
And I'm like, no, I'm puffed andI'm tired.
I do feel good afterwards. But like, I don't know, can we
count that as endorphins? Anyway, what we're talking about
today is this kind of, and, and we've gone down immediately a
massive tangent, but I think it's like kind of an important
one because it's both our socialization, our conditioning
(06:39):
and our chemicals. And then also probably how they
work together to create different habits, behaviours,
mindsets, all of that sort of stuff.
And one of the things we have noticed a lot recently is
especially as we get new power suitors on, some members start,
they get up and running really quickly, they are really
engaged, they really understand what they're trying to achieve
(07:00):
and they get cracking. Others, however, kind of get
stumped at the first hurdle. And what we've realized that
first hurdle boils down to is I deserve to invest time in
myself. It is that simple and it is
undoing years of conditioning tosay that I am allowed to
prioritize time spent on myself.And we just thought that was so
(07:22):
fascinating how widespread it isthat we don't.
And it's unconscious as well. Like no one's sitting there
going, I don't deserve this. It's just that they, on
autopilot, undermine or deprioritize anything that they
perceive to be selfish, like something that they don't
immediately see a benefit for other people and they will just
put everything else on top of it.
(07:43):
Yeah. And I think it was important to
layer to, to start with biology because there is something about
how we are literally wired in our the hormones that we produce
to to put others first before ourselves.
But then it's reinforced and reinforced and reinforced.
And you talked about conditioning.
So I think it's worthwhile us chatting about, I don't know,
just some other experiences or stuff that we've heard.
(08:07):
I was reading recently about a, a study where University of
Toronto in Canada talked found and this is 2025.
So I know we, we've, we've studied girls and boys and and
gendered situations in schools for a long time.
But this is really recent. And girls as young as primary
age school prioritize their teachers instructions.
So doing well, listening and obeying over their own problem
(08:29):
solving ideas, whereas they found boys, pushed back and
explored alternatives. And that is like the perfect
breeding ground for social conformity that takes root, you
know, no doubt in the home and at the school.
Really interesting. And there's also probably layers
over that of the girls clocked really early that if they
(08:52):
prioritize their teachers instructions, they'd probably
get rewarded for that as being the good kids in the classroom
and that they really delivered and all of that sort of stuff.
Actually, I was talking to someone the other day, a golfer,
and they were talking about women who are probably in their
60s, seventies, playing golf andhow they have a higher
likelihood of being really fixated on rules and like, you
(09:16):
have to play this way. And this is the hierarchy of the
golf course and really caring about the structure and the
order and almost getting taking it upon themselves to to really
enforce that across a golf course.
And I just thought it's sort of at the extreme other end age
wise of the primary school. It's like we're sort of rewarded
our entire lives for like payingattention to rules, following
(09:37):
the rules, the end and finding that sort of structure.
And it kind of leads to some interesting, interesting actions
as a result or mindsets as a result.
Well, we've got a whole talk on syndromes, and most of them
originate. I mean, whatever.
I won't go into where they originated, but how they're
manifested is that women are ultimately putting others before
(10:00):
themselves or things before their own well-being.
And so it could be things like how I look.
It could be things like how I navigate my relationships or how
I navigate the classroom or the workforce.
The point is, is it's like everyone before me and before,
like my authentic needs, like what is real to me and what is
(10:23):
and I and what is what feels authentic.
And I think it all comes down toto between biological, you know,
hormones and all this conditioning, ultimately what it
comes down to is like, Oh my goodness, the biggest barriers
ever to put ourselves first. Like in none of those scenarios
(10:44):
do we shower first. Yeah.
And do we think about what what we want first?
There was actually a really goodquote in Chicago Fire, which I
am rewatching. And the father said to the son,
there's only one person in this world you never want to
disappoint and that's yourself. And I just thought and and
actually I've heard it said recently on Instagram, my other
(11:06):
source of information, there aretwo people in the world you need
to impress, 8 year old you and 80 year old you and that's it.
And I just thought it's something that flies in the face
of everything we're taught. Actually, it just reminded me,
we've been thinking a little bitrecently about how what does
that not looks, but how we present ourselves, our physical
(11:27):
appearance from, you know, how our bodies look and how we
dress. How if we are going to start
addressing some of that in the power suit platform, like are we
going to run some? Because, you know, it takes up a
lot of brain space and that brain space could be used in
more effectively. And I have a natural hesitancy
against it because I'm like, oh gosh, I don't want to like spend
more time talking about how women look.
(11:49):
But it is a really interesting because that flows onto this
too. It's that whole like just our
brain space is constantly taken up with how other people
perceive or making sure we look appropriate for other people,
we're attractive to other peopleor we're polite and we're
acceptable. So it probably all does sort of
circle around the same area. Well, and if it wasn't for
COVID, wouldn't many of us stillbe wearing high heels in the
(12:11):
workplace? Yeah, RIP.
Although I have noticed some people are bringing them back
and I will fight them fiercely with my with my wardrobe full of
my museum wardrobe full of my high heels that I haven't thrown
out yet. Like my toenails are still
munted so that I could fit in. And all power to people who love
them. I love heels.
(12:32):
Of course, of course. But it is so interesting.
It's a fear. It's this fear of being rejected
that it is, oh gosh, it's so deeply ingrained.
It's going to take so much time to unwind it.
But I think ultimately, what aresome patterns do you think of
people that breakthrough the other side?
And for the like, what is it that causes people to wake up
(12:55):
and go enough? I'm putting myself 1st and part
of this is future me. Isn't it?
Like the time and investment that we take to invest in
ourselves today is often about future me.
And I think actually that's another issue, isn't it?
We often don't think about future me, but any thoughts on?
I, I mean, I feel like I've accidentally fallen into this
(13:16):
through kind of, I talk a lot about the life escalator and
anytime you step off that life escalator, you're effectively
going against social norms and what people expect of you.
And you get pushed back. And the more you get pushed
back, the more you realize it really doesn't impact you that
much. So I think like in my life,
things like deciding not to havechildren, gosh, amazing how many
people have very big thoughts about women deciding not to have
(13:39):
children about like, you know, are we just here for biological
reproduction? Like that feels like the
argument that a lot of people have given me over the years,
like, well, is that what you think our role on this planet
is? All those are way through to
being accused of being selfish for not wanting children.
And I'm like, just feel like oneof the most selfish acts in the
world is having children. But sure, I'm the selfish 1.
(14:00):
So like that real push on what you are meant to do and if you
don't do it, you get the push back.
And then same with not getting married.
Same actually when I met Kyla and was like, Oh yeah, now I'm
gay. That's going to be an
interesting confusing time for the people around me.
Turns out it wasn't. But all of those little things,
and I think they can get, I mean, those are relatively big
(14:20):
ones, but getting down to smaller things, doing something
that doesn't fit the norm is such a nice way to build up
capacity to cope with that social push back and realize
that it doesn't matter. I think people who've travelled
overseas, sometimes they might have had to put up with pressure
from their family to not do it or, you know, taking a job that
(14:42):
may not be the job that they're expected to have.
All of that sort of stuff. I think it can help you build up
that muscle of going, Oh yeah, Idon't have to do what other
people tell me to do. I think also life events.
So what I've heard from you is life choices, life events
possibly and even age and life events.
(15:04):
I mean quite often it when I hear women who are finally
putting themselves 1st and taking back control, it's a
result of divorce. I'm a relationship breakup.
It could be illness of a family member or it could be a parent
that passes away. I've noticed that women
completely go oh, it's just reality check of life short.
(15:26):
I am unhappy. I am making a change.
And then I would say age. And I, I recall thinking, I was
curious about why I had, why I was reacting in a certain way a
few weeks ago, could have been months now.
And I remember thinking, what a yeah, what is time?
It was surely months, not weeks.And I remember going, isn't that
(15:48):
weird? I have time to think about
myself and why I act in the way that I do.
And I've probably always had time.
But the point was as my time went into my children up until
this year, and now I'm actually taking reclaiming that time,
spending far less emotional energy on them and more on
myself. And so I found that interesting
in terms of life stage with kidsleaving home.
(16:10):
And then apparently, and I'm nearing it in your 50s, you just
don't care anymore. So yeah, that's interesting.
I really. Like that, because I think
you're right that that is a really beautiful combination of
there is the literal reality of you had children that you had to
focus on. And then in kind of that is this
(16:31):
perception of while I have kids,I must not think about how I
feel. I'm putting words in your mouth,
but it's it that kind of nuancedchallenge here, right, that it's
like this kind of combination ofthere's no like clear cut, like
if only we just changed this, wewouldn't feel it.
But I do think age the, the, thereason why I think age has an
effect is because those life experiences, right?
(16:52):
And you and I do like your examples of like health and
divorce and life events, losing a job and or even getting a job.
Like I've noticed that with people who've made it to the
exact dream job and then realized how deeply unhappy they
are. And that sort of had the same
impact of forcing them to go. Who am I trying to impress with
this job? Because turns out it's not me.
(17:13):
And I think the thing and, and then I was going to say the only
other one that I've noticed, andwe talk about this a lot with
imposter phenomenon and the question we often ask when
someone says, I feel like an impostor, especially when it's
going for another job. We're like, OK, well, who else
would do it better? And as soon as they realize that
they're up against the sort of mediocre guy sitting next to
them, the hostile syndrome dyspnea, and is replaced with
(17:36):
quite a, quite a, quite a conviction that they are in fact
the best person for the job. And so it's almost like these
little nudges that just gets us out of fantasy land or like the
conditioning land and forces us to face what's actually in front
of us sometimes. I was reading a few we, we ask
our members to fill out a quick form when they joined power Suit
(17:59):
and it's a great time for them to reflect on what's important
to them or how they're going with their career.
But also then we can tailor their first few months on power
Suit to support those goals. And what I've been struck by is
an increasing amount of people who are going, I need, it's time
to figure out what it is that I want and what matters to me and
(18:20):
my career. So that's, you know, quite often
we have a lot of people join during transitions like feeling
stuck and not sure but the next step or they've stepped up and
looking to find their feet. And so there is a contingent of
real transition and leveraging power suit and investing in
themselves to finally for the first time do that.
What I can't like if I were to take life big traumatic life
(18:44):
events away and and natural seasons of life and and maybe
menopause and in your 50s and 60s.
But what what? I'm just curious.
How could we I don't know. How could we reverse?
Yeah. How do we deconstruct it And so
that everybody can start to put themselves first, like today?
(19:04):
Divorced, do you think? Yeah, like we can't avoid.
Or like have a health scare or something like, God forbid it
like what you what is the thing that would be easy, that almost
like, how do you, how do we, howcan we manufacture endorphins
for Nat, which I've searched by the way, and we'll talk about
that after, but it's the same thing.
I'm like, how can we wake up? And, and you know those micro
(19:25):
feminism moments you see on reels, You're like my micro
feminist moment for today was I'm not to say sorry when the
guy bumped into me on the sidewalk.
So but. What is the microphone, Kristen?
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Nat tell me a good story on the
weekend, but that what what's the thing where we can have a
micro moment of against biology and against this conditioning of
(19:47):
putting ourselves first tomorrowmorning?
Like what is the thing, Nat? OK, I have some ideas because I
think we've both been practicingthis a lot over the last five to
10 years. So we we talk about this at the
end of every year when we talk about going into a sort of a
couple of week break or a week break and how hard it is for
people to rest because we feel so guilty when we rest.
(20:08):
So I feel like the easiest microway to practice this is is
indulgent rest and and you can do that tomorrow like you
literally said when we wake up. Have a cup of coffee, sit down
in a nice chair and stare out the window and do nothing.
Don't try and multitask like packing lunches or anything.
Just like stop and do the thing or go sit in the sun and read a
(20:31):
book for 10 minutes. Or one of the things I'm trying
to practice now is when I'm at aCafe or bar, I try and arrive a
little bit early and instead of jumping on my phone, I just sit
and observe the room. And just like there's something
that like rewires my brain thereto feel like I am like this
person who is just running around and just like comfortable
and observing. So it's just like taking those
(20:52):
5-10 minutes of doing something that feels micro indulgent.
Like it's, you're not trying to cram something else and there's
no purpose to it other than restor enjoyment and something that
you love to do. There is no other benefit other
than you loving to do it or finding it relaxing.
And I think that for me anyway, a few years ago, I found
(21:15):
incredibly hot because on a weekend I'd feel like I failed
my weekend if I hadn't crammed it full of product, productive
activities. And now I feel like a weekend is
a success if I spent 4 hours watching Chicago Fire, eating
popcorn, and having a glass of, I don't know, martini.
I feel like there's a rewiring of our brain and belief system
(21:35):
at the same time, because what invariably might happen when
people do this is immediately there'll be a sense of guilt or
shame or unease, uneasiness around.
I don't deserve this time, or I should be.
I could be like the again of course in this.
You think, no, that's the like 5-10 minute element of it.
Like just practice it rather than try.
(21:57):
And like because I have a friendwho's literally taken the week
off. She's in a pretty, you know,
she's had a pretty rough couple of months.
She's taken the week off and sheis practicing this all week.
She is deliberately not packed out her week with stuff.
She's booked brunches, she's booked a manicure one day, she's
booked, you know, eyebrows done another day she's booked
cocktails one day. She's got like, I'm going to go
(22:18):
swimming one day, whatever it isthat is advanced and I think
she's been practicing a lot overthe last few years.
But starting with just one of those activities in the week and
not or a coffee and not cramminganything else around it and just
going, I deserve 5 minutes to sit and enjoy my coffee and my
muffin or whatever it is. And if I have to get up and do
everything for the other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the day,
(22:42):
that's fine. But this 5 minutes is mine.
Yeah, I love this. This is a trust the process
thing. This is an actual trust the
process. Just start taking the time, then
you'll claim more of it and and no doubt mindset shifts as well.
Yeah, I like that. I like that.
I like that. Do you think?
I mean, I feel like if you go upanother level, I, I realized a
while ago the meaning of life for me is just joy.
(23:03):
Like don't leave the planet worse than you found it.
But I can't really see another purpose of it, of life.
It's like we want to take the world forward that brings joy,
but like it's kind of the whole purpose.
So if you kind of are finding yourself living a world in a
life where it's about everyone else and there's no joy for you,
I kind of feel like, oh, but that kind of feels like that's
(23:24):
the mindset shift that I feel like takes it a little bit
longer to to embed if that's notwhere you're currently
operating. Well, it's interesting though,
because before this call, you told me about such immense joy
that you had by planning someoneelse's Mother's Day event.
And like, that would contradict what you said, but actually that
(23:46):
brought you a huge amount of joy.
As in doing something? Yes, doing stuff.
Yeah. Is that joy?
I feel like he's there's joy. I feel like that's I would no,
sorry, I'm going to start that again.
Isn't that joy? Is that hard?
I feel like what they say often is when you are feeling down or
life is tough, one of the easiest ways you can easiest
(24:08):
mood boosters you can do have isdoing something for someone
else. It is like such a easy mood
booster. So I don't know, but I think
that's quite different because that's a surprising delight
versus a packing her lunch everyday probably wouldn't do
that. No, no, no.
The mundaneness versus surprising delight.
I love that. OK, So I just, I'm glad that
we've raised this whole chemicalthing because I do think it is
(24:31):
important for us to realize thatin times of stress or whatever,
all sorts of chemicals are in fact coursing through our
bodies, which make us put other people first.
I think being aware of that is really interesting.
Second thing is trust the process of giving yourself back
a little bit of time. And that I just want to end on
for me, a quick ways to get yournatural endorphins.
(24:52):
So if you don't feel them through exercise, I think you
feel these through a couple waysand I'm going to one of them is
laughter. Yes.
OK. Second is music.
Yeah, which I would say for you.And then there's some food stuff
which I'm like, no, I haven't really seen.
You experience endorphins with dark chocolate, so forget that.
Or meditation. Yeah, exactly.
(25:15):
And I have, yes, spicy food and dark.
Yeah. It's like no meditation.
I haven't really seen you do that.
However, cold exposure. Didn't you go for a cold?
Didn't you go for the cold swim?And you were like.
Yeah, that's fine. But you know, we live in a cold
country. Cold water is all around us.
I I don't. Music and laughter.
Is very healthy I'm going to understand I'll die on the hell
(25:37):
because I don't want to go in cold water No, I think all those
things probably helpful but I would like to get it from
exercise because it would be a nice function to.
Go E to living. It's the reward, isn't it?
Maybe you just have to give yourself a little.
I don't know. What do you what do you want to
treat yourself with these days? Well, I would think we're going
to ask you the same question to wrap this one up is what have
you done or what are you planning to do in the next week?
(25:58):
That is a thing you just do for yourself.
This week is a good week in termof events.
I've got Girls Night tonight. I've got Girls movie.
Night tonight. Yeah, I've got a girl a golfing,
golfing night tonight, so I'll be at the drive in about 5 hours
time. I've got girls movie night for
(26:19):
Devil Wears Prada 2 tomorrow night and then I've got the
Banff Mountain Film Festival, which is so inspiring, wasn't
it? So I'm like I got lots of.
Oh, that's nice. I might see what band I'm going.
That will be fun. I'm looking forward to that.
Yeah. I feel like those things.
I went to a jazz thing on the weekend and this is, this is
interesting. This is actually probably that.
(26:40):
Would be my worst nightmare. A jazz thing.
But anyway you. Know what I think?
This is where I struggle. So it was like classic
Wellington hipster. I was like, it's a cool venue
and it's a really cool band and they sing Kendrick Lamar.
Well, they don't sing them. They play Kendrick Lamar's
music, but it's jazz. And then they like sample his
voice. And so then so I did that and
it's delightful. And at one point I went to get a
(27:00):
drink and then I just sort of wandered into the crowd and just
like boogied on my own for a couple of minutes and was like,
because I was like in that vibe,you know, when everyone's in
that doesn't feel, you're not like the first dancer.
But I realized at the start of the night I was really stressed
because I need to go to sleep early and I don't understand how
these things work. So doors open to 8.
So I was like, OK, doors open to8.
The console will start at 8:30 and we'll be out of there by 10.
(27:23):
And I forget that cool people don't do that.
So actually the pre act started at like 8:45 and then it was
like 930 by the time the actual act started.
And I spent the first part of the night feeling really
stressed about letting everyone else down because I didn't want
to get to the point that I was so tired that I wanted to leave.
You know that yuck feeling. I'm so used to that feeling.
And So what I did is I said to all my friends, there is a good
(27:47):
chance I'm going to leave in thenext half an hour.
And they all just looked at me because they know me and they're
like, sure. And then I could relax and just
enjoy myself without worry. The.
Pressure the expectation, yeah, that just.
Occurred to me that might be there's some something in there
around saying like recognizing when you are very much freaking
(28:08):
out about everyone else's expectations on you that they do
not have often and and either addressing them internally or by
asking the question. Because that really relaxed me,
knowing that I was fine, I couldjust go home if I wanted to.
I love it. Name it.
I also, before you wrap up, havea word, an origin word.
(28:28):
OK, go. Do you know the origin of the
word salary? SALARY, Salary.
How we get paid? Darna No.
Right. Tell me.
Well, apparently it comes from the Latin solarium, meaning salt
money. In ancient times, salt was used
for many important things and was often referred to as white
(28:50):
gold. It could be used as an
antiseptic to treat wounds that could preserve food and also was
a form of payment in Greece and Rome.
So labourers were paid with saltthat they could use to preserve
their food, and the Roman Empirecontinued using this form of
payment and it took the name celery.
I love it. That's great.
(29:12):
We're. Going to start paying people in
salt. Salt or bread or something?
Something other than cash? Let's see.
Need a trading economy again? Very good.
Everyone check out powersuit.com.
Let us know what you are going to do for yourself this week.
Yeah, 5 minutes. Go enjoy it.
(29:32):
We've actually got a friend staying with us and they woke up
at like 11:30 and came out beinglike good morning.
And I was like, get it. Like it's so interesting that we
have that worry that people are going to be think we're lazy.
And I'm like, you are on holiday.
You do what you. Want.
Isn't that? Funny that like, all of it, all
of that, these little things allday every day that kind of crop
into our minds of like. I should I could.
(29:54):
I know, I know. Notice that this weekend
everyone, or this week I should say.
Anyway, Take care everyone and we will catch you next time.
Bye.
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