S4 E15: Thermal Optics UPDATE with Dark Night Outdoors

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
What's up, guys?
Predator Podcast season four.
We're back for another episodetoday.
Pretty excited about this one.
As you guys know, if you'velistened to the show for any
period of time, uh, myrelationship with Dark Knight
Outdoors is a strong one.
And coming up here in a coupleof weeks, we are going to be at

(01:45):
the open season sportsmen's expoin Wisconsin Dells, Dark Knight
Outdoors, and myself.
So we thought we'd give you guysa little bit of rundown.
What is new?
What do you need to know about?
And some things to look forwardto seeing at the show.
Uh, and I have one and onlyJamie Hoffman from Dark Knight

(02:05):
Outdoors on today.
So, Jamie, thank you for comingon with me tonight.

SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
No problem, Drew.
I appreciate uh you having meback on for sure.
It uh I always enjoy doing thepodcast with you here.
And uh uh yeah, like youmentioned, uh, we're gonna be up
at that uh Wisconsin expo hereuh in a couple weeks.
And I look forward to that too.
I think you got me involved inthat a couple years ago, and and
uh I really enjoy uh that and uhall the people up in Wisconsin

(02:35):
and even the people that drivefrom further away to uh come to
that show.
That show's been really awesome.
So yeah, it's uh yeah, it's alot of fun, and uh I always
enjoy uh uh seeing you up thereand uh uh go from there.

SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Yeah, we uh are looking forward to it.
Always a good crowd.
And you guys will have to stopin, check out the new thermals.
If you're in the market forsomething, uh you know, you'll
have a good opportunity to checkit out, maybe buy it if we have
it on hand and hear from Jamieabout some of the ins and outs
about them.
If you don't hear it today, youcan ask those questions that you

(03:10):
might have, uh look at thingsside by side, and uh it's just
helpful in my eyes.
So Jamie, let's let's uh let'skick it off.
I know Rick says a few uh newhelmet mounted items uh first on
the docket here.
And uh can you tell us a littlebit about those?

SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
Yeah, well, uh a lot of things uh people ask us on a
regular basis is hey, what'd yousee at Shot Show?
You know, yeah, and uh so we didgo to Shot Show uh this year,
and uh, you know, it was uh asusual, bigger than ever, and uh
lots of new things coming out atum, you know, Shot Show.
Um, all of the companies had newthings to to show and

(03:51):
demonstrate, and uh we got achance to look at those and uh
obviously kind of you know giveour opinions on them and kind of
go from there.
Um, some of the products we dohave in stock now.
Um uh actually most of them wedo.
Uh there are a few of them uhstill lingering out there that
uh just haven't come uh tofruition yet or uh gotten

(04:12):
shipped into us yet.
But uh um Rick's has actuallycome out with uh something
pretty interesting uh in thehelmet mounted area, which is
the stride uh st3 light and thest6 light.
Um the the st3 obviously is a384 and the st6 is a 640

(04:32):
version.
Um they're um great units forfor being helmet mounted, and
the most amazing thing withthese uh new um uh helmet
mounted monoculars is the priceis pretty amazing.
So uh the st3 light uh came outat a thousand dollars, um which

(04:54):
we've never ever seen uh helmetmounted uh thermals uh out at
this price um ever.
So um and the st6 uh comes in atuh$19.99, so uh sub$2,000 for a
great uh helmet mountedmonocular.
Um, a lot of people out thereare are familiar with the iRay

(05:17):
uh RH25 V2, uh very, verypopular unit.
Um, is this or either one ofthese units, the RH25 V2?
Nope, they sure aren't.
Um they are really more of adedicated uh uh thermal for
being helmet mounted.
Um they cannot be like the RH25V2, you know, used as a

(05:42):
standalone uh thermal or a uhclip-on thermal.
Uh it is uh it is really more ofjust a dedicated helmet mounted
monocular.
Now I've had a few people youknow ask me too if they could
use it as a handheld, and sure,yeah, you could use it as a
handheld if you want to.
Um it's it's small, and when youuse it as a handheld, remember

(06:06):
it's a 1x base mag uh designedfor uh helmet mounting.
So that 1x base mag is gonna be,and you can zoom them up to a 2x
course.
Um, one of the things to pointout on the the Stride ST3 is
that there is no thermal focusuh for that.

(06:27):
So it is just uh set at aninfinite range, kind of like
your um so just like the uhpocket uh K3 or the K2 uh does
not have a uh you know focus forthe thermal on the front of it.
Um, you know, that's one of thethe drawbacks to the ST3 and
obviously why it's quite a bitcheaper than the the ST6, but

(06:50):
the ST6 it does have a uhforward focus on it uh for the
thermal and um obviously alsofor the the uh lens as well,
too.
So um they do also have um theirold Rix stride that has been
since you know retired, if youwill, or discontinued.

(07:12):
Um, it did come with a bridge.
Um, the new ones do not comewith the bridge, but we do have
the bridges in stock.
So if you like the Rix stylebridge, it's a little bit
different.
It is definitely a singlemonocular style bridge, but it
it can slide side to side uh foryour um, you know, if you want

(07:35):
it on your left eye or righteye, extremely easily.
And then it's got some nicemicro adjustments to it so that
you can get it positionedperfectly in front of your eye
and uh go from there.
But uh uh the most amazing thingto me is is is how far these
thermals have come, uh imagequality-wise, and then also
price getting cheaper, right?

(07:57):
Um, you can now get into youknow a great helmet setup uh
with like a good quality TeamWendy helmet um for$2,000 to
$3,000, just depending on if youwant the ST3 or the ST6 and go
from there.
Um, you know, the the other bigthing with with doing helmet

(09:00):
mounted uh monocular setups ispeople do get confused with uh
you know the different stylemounts and so forth.
And we do stock all of thatstuff.
And here at Dark KnightOutdoors, if you do want to do,
you know, uh or you want acomplete setup shipped to you,
we're able to do that right hereand ship out a completed unit.

(09:21):
Um, even if you want to buy thecomponents, we can send you all
the correct components so thatyou can get it mounted up
properly, and uh you canassemble it yourself however you
want to do it and go from there.
So right.
Um so is it is it compatiblewith like the Wilcox mount or it
is, it uses the same dovetailstyle uh mount, and it really

(09:43):
does come with that.
What's that?

SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
Is it similar to the one that the IRA uses?

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Uh it's it's exactly like the one that the IRA uses,
correct.
Yeah, um, it and it isadjustable, it does have three
different uh slots in the top ofit where you can slide it back
and forth and go from there.
The one thing I noticed that wasa little bit weird is that some
of the threading on the units isdifferent sizes, but I have had

(10:09):
uh success go going out to thelocal hardware store and just
getting a screw that will fit uhthat size and just moving it
around, unfortunately doesn'tcome with it, but um, which
might might be a little bit of amiss.
But um for the most part, it's avery adjustable unit.
And I I do feel that they'regonna be a very popular uh

(10:30):
product uh from Rick's uh movingforward, just based off of the
prices of them and so and soforth.
I mean, heck, who wouldn't wantto get into?
I mean, you can get into ahelmet setup now for almost as
cheap as a uh handheldmonocular, which is fantastic.
So um, yeah, and then you know,another thing that uh has has
come out recently from um youknow the show is the Rick's Leap

(10:52):
L12R, which we actually had umout before we went to Shot Show,
but it was technically a SHOTShow release.
Um still very similar quality tothe L3 and the L6R that is out
there now.
Um, they did make a fewimprovements to this one,
though.
It does have a 2560 by 2560round display, and you know, we

(11:17):
always talk about everybodygetting all wrapped up in the
numbers and the the stats andthe you know everything,
everybody getting confused.
Basically, the thing to know onthat is it does have a it's it's
about two and a half timesclearer display than most
thermals out there do, but theythere is definitely starting to
be more and more thermals on themarket with that 2560 by 2560

(11:40):
round display.
So um, but it's got a greatdisplay in it.
Uh, they did finally add aninternal battery to the unit,
unlike the L3 and the L6Rs.
Um, when you do want to changeyour battery, it does shut the
scope off and you do have torestart it.
Is it the end of the world?
Absolutely not.
Um, is it a little bit annoying?

(12:01):
It kind of is.
Um, but for the most part, um,they did add that internal
battery in there.
Um, and and again, it's a twopower to six power ocular, you
know, ocular zoom, um, which youknow um is is the same for if
you look at the uh not picks umyou know s70 or that I'm sorry,

(12:23):
the the S50R.
Um, you know, it's gonna be atwo power to six power as well,
um and and stuff like that.
And I said S50, it's S60R.
Um but all the leaps now have aLRF built into the to the lens.
Um, unfortunately, they decidedto get rid of the scopes that
don't have the laser rangefinder anymore.

(12:45):
So those have been discontinuedum and and go from there.
So um, you know, it does have a60 hertz refresh rate, which is
a nice addition to thatparticular scope.
Um, however, uh they did comeout with a price that's a little
bit higher than some of theother competitive scopes out
there on the market.

(13:05):
Um, you know, at the time thatit released, the NockPix S60R
was, you know, um, you know,7,000 or$6,999, and they came
out at$68.99.
So$100 cheaper.
And I I I would have to give thehead nod to the Nockpicks S60R,
even at the higher price.

(13:26):
Um, for an extra$100, I justfeel like the build quality is
probably a little bit better inthe S60R, um, and uh probably
more than just a little better.
Um, but um also the the NockPixS60R just this last week lowered
their price down to$64.99.
So now you can get the NockpicksS60R cheaper than you can even

(13:48):
get the RIX Leap L12R.
So, you know, um I at that pointI have to kind of say it's a
no-brainer to probably look atthe the the Nockpicks S60R.
Um but uh um another uh newaddition out there was the DBH
D12.
Uh this is now more your compactstyle scope versus the RICS Leap

(14:08):
is your tube style scope.
Um, you know, I get the questionall the time what scope should I
go with?
And you know, it all depends.
If you're using a bold actionrifle, I always do recommend a
tube style scope.
The DBH series is one of thosethat's a little bit of an
anomaly, though, because thatscope does work well on a bold
action rifle just because it hasan unbelievable amount of

(14:32):
relief, eye relief on it, sothat you can still see through
the scope pretty well, eventhough you're further back from
it.
So uh, but the DBH D12 wasobviously, like I said, a new
release out there 1280 uh 3xbase mag 75 millimeter lens.
This thing is not a small boy,man.
It is it's a big boy sitting upon top of a rifle.

(14:55):
It's big, it's a little bit onthe heavy side.
Um, but again, with the DBHs,um, they do have the ability to
marry a Kestrel to them.
So for guys that are looking to,you know, shoot at extremely
long distances.
Um I've got you know some of myown customers looking at
shooting coyotes at 900 to uh1100 yards, and seems a little

(15:18):
crazy to me, but you know, atthe end of the day, um, you
know, that is it's it's a greatscope to be able to do that with
and then marry the Kestrel up toit.
The one thing about this oneversus the S75R is this one does
come in with a 50 hertz refreshrate, so a little bit different
there.
Um uh but the 50 hertz and the60 hertz, I I'll be honest with

(15:39):
you, I wouldn't let that be aum, you know, uh uh it's not a
deal breaker, you know, one wayor the other.
Um, I don't really notice it toomuch.
Um, but you know, 60 hertz isdefinitely better, especially if
you're trying to lead, you know,running, you know, targets and
stuff like that.
Um and you know, the the the onedownfall to me uh with the DBH

(16:04):
or the compact style series ofscopes is that there's none of
them out there right now thathave the ocular zoom.
Um, and the ocular zoom is whereyou can zoom in and not lose any
resolution because you'rezooming in on the screen itself.
Um, but um, you know, uh, youknow, at the same time, uh it's

(16:25):
just a digital only style zoom.
So when you do zoom in with thecompact style scopes, it's it's
going to you know um degrade theimage as you zoom in and uh go
from there.
So uh one of the other thingsthat we noticed with the the
DBHD12 and and didn't notice itwhen we were you know at SHOT

(16:46):
Show or anything like that, it'smore of something that came
about uh afterwards is that thetypical type C power port on the
side of the scope, it does not,you are not able to add like an
external power source to it andum power the scope.
Um so for some reason the powerport on the side of it does not

(17:09):
work.
And when I contacted Rick'sabout it, they seemed to not
know it, and but then also had acouple different, you know,
explanations that it could notpower the 1280, you know,
sensor, which we know is notright because it does actually
you know power it on otherscopes and so forth.

(17:30):
So I'm not exactly sure, youknow, um why it does not work,
but the only thing that the portdoes on the side of the DBHD12
is it will uh actually transtransfer data, um, which most
people are probably gonna usethe app to transfer the data
anyway.
Um kind of leaves that port onthe side of the scope um to be

(17:53):
kind of useless in my opinion,and go from there.
And I do miss the fact that Ican't add an external power pack
onto the side of it for thoselong hunts, especially if you
get into a two-day coyotecontest or what have you.
Um, you know, I'm really missingmy external uh battery pack at
that point and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
So right, you gotta have four other batteries to put
in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
And it does run off of the two 18650 batteries.
So if you want to carry twoother 18,650 batteries around
with you, well then there yougo.
You know, um you're gonna carrythe batteries and the weight one
way or the other.
Um, just depends on where youwant to put it um and go from
there.
But uh one one product that theydid come out with, uh, I I'm not

(18:37):
really gonna call it a shot showrelease because I it should have
been released a long time ago,is the Titan T3.
And some people are probablyvery familiar with the Titan T6
because it got released quite awhile ago, and then we waited
for the 384 version to come outand never came out, never came
out, and well, now it's here.
And um, you know, it's it is the384 uh version of the Titan T6.

(19:01):
Um, but man, I gotta tell you, Ireally like this unit.
Um, you know, is it the ultimatein quality that it might be
missing a few spots, but man,the price that it came out at
with having a laser range finderand a 384 sensor in it.
Um, it looks great when you lookthrough it.

(19:22):
Uh, they actually improved whatI call the one-handed operation
um because that was supposed tobe a big feature of the T6.
The problem with the T6s is thefocus wheel was so hard to turn
that you almost had to use twohands to turn the focus.
Um, they have fixed that on thethe um uh T3, the 384 version.

(19:43):
Um, it's nice, it's easy to use.
You can use it as a one-handedum operation uh for your focus,
for your front focus.
Um, and again, it's just a greatmonocular uh or scanner, if you
will, for the price of$15.99.
Um, it's pretty darn hard tobeat.
Um, anything else out there thatI've seen that compares image

(20:04):
quality is more up in that$19.99range.
So um I really, really like thatunit.
If you say you have to have anLRF on um, you know, the unit,
and if you can get over slightlyweird shape that it is, um it
um, you know, that's gonna comedown to personal preference.
So yeah.

(20:26):
So it uh but I but I have beenpretty impressed with the Titan
T3.
So that's one to keep an eye outthere for, and I don't think a
whole lot of people really are,you know, too enthused with it
because the T6 was a little bit,and in my opinion, maybe a
little bit of a flop for theprice that it came out at and
stuff like that.
But the Titan T3 is definitely awinner, in my opinion.

(20:47):
So um, um, but yeah, uh, youknow, after that, uh, we went
down to the NockPix booth andtook a look at uh everything
that NockPix has to offer outthere, and it looks like uh
NockPix for this year wasfocusing on the the 1280 side of
things, more of the high-end um,you know, uh scopes, monoculars,

(21:07):
binoculars, that type of thing.
They did come out with the newVista S50R, uh, which is a 1280
2x base mag uh monocular.
And you know, it is kind of thebig brother to the Vista H50R,
um, which is going to soon bediscontinued.
Um, we are actually kind of uhrunning today, right now,

(21:30):
through our last run of those uhthermal monoculars, and once
they're gone, from what I'vebeen told now they are going to
be discontinued.
So um, but the H50R was a 6404Xbase mag versus the Vista S50R
1280 2x base mag.
And so for everybody that knowshow the digital you know

(21:52):
magnification works, everybody'slike, well, why would I buy a
1280 for the cost?
Um, and and a 2x base mag when Ican get the the H50R for
significantly less money becausewe do have that blowout price on
them right now, um, you know,and and just get one at 4x.
And I basically got the samething because by the time I zoom

(22:14):
that 2x base mag up to 4, I'mdown to a 640 anyway.
Well, you know, I do get that.
Um, but the one thing that I cantell you is is versatility,
right?
The the versatility of havingthe ability to go down to a 2x
base magnification makes it sothat if you want to use it for

(22:34):
coon hunting, if you want to beable to use it for hog hunting,
um it's it's definitely doable.
Um, then if you want to turnaround and go coyote hunting
with it, you got the best ofboth worlds.
And a lot of people will say,Well, how is that?
Like what what's the difference,right?
You know, um, that 2x base magis going to give you a lot
larger field of view.

(22:56):
And uh this is one of thosequestions.
Yeah, big field of view.
So the the the biggest questionthat I get all the time is is
what's the difference with a 2xand a 4x?
Why is one better than theother?
Well, the higher you go inmagnification, the better image
quality you will get atdistance.

(23:16):
Okay.
However, it also gives you amuch narrower field of view.
So um again, if you go the otherway and you go to a light base
mag or like a 2x base mag,you're gonna get a lot larger
field of view, but probably Notas clear of image at X, you
know, uh further distances andso forth.

(23:37):
But the reason I like that 1280is because you can do a 2x, it
is a 1280 resolution at thatpoint.
Um, it's a nice wide field ofview.
Again, the the 1280 sensor is isbeing used now not only for the
ultimate and clarity, but alsoto give it more versatility and
giving you that wider field ofview.

(23:59):
And then if you want to go outand and zoom it up to 4x base
mag, uh you're down to a 640.
And then if you want to go up toan eight, you know, eight power
base mag, then you're you know,uh down to a 320, right?
Um, but it's just it addsversatility to the unit.
Um, unfortunately, that 1280sensor is a little bit on the
expensive side, um, pops inthere at 44.95 or 44.99.

(24:24):
Uh but I gotta tell you, it doeshave a great battery system.
It is a little bit bigger of aunit, it is a little bit
heavier.
Um, but I love the battery.
It does come with two batteries,and they are a proprietary
battery, which I'm not alwaysthe the most in favor of.
But with my vistas, uh, youknow, and about 30 degree, you

(24:46):
know, temperatures.
Um, you know, I'd like to saythat I was out in colder weather
than that this year, but uh theolder I get, uh, the more fair
weather hundred I get.
So um, but long story short, um,it it does last for about seven
and a half hours at about 30degrees in temperature, so quite
a bit longer than the otherbatteries out there.
But what else makes it a greatbattery system to me is that

(25:09):
there are no extra chargers,there's no extra cords, there's
no not like if you're travelingaround, it does have a type C
USB port right in the side ofthe battery.
You can charge it up inside themonocular, you can charge it
outside of the monocular andjust plug directly into the
battery with your cell phonecharger that's already in your
truck.
You can leave one battery in thetruck charging while you're out

(25:32):
using the unit.
You can come back to the truck,swap them out.
Um, it just you don't need tohave any more than two
batteries, and it's just a greatsystem um all the way around on
the batteries.
So um, great unit.
Um, I really like that one uhfor sure.
It's it's gonna be a huge hit aslong as people can swallow the

(25:52):
$44.99 price um and go fromthere.
It's not for everybody, butagain, it is a very versatile
unit.
It uh um and then uh they alsocame out with the S50R Quest,
which would be the binocularversion of the Vista, which is
the monocular or the you knowscanner version.
Um again, great unit.

(26:13):
It's just like the other Quest Sum S series uh uh or I'm sorry,
the the other Quest 50 uhmonoculars that are out there
already, um, or I should saybinoculars, yeah, but it is a
1280 2x base mag.
Um, it again uh it does have an18650 battery and an internal

(26:34):
battery that uh um goes withthat one.
And and and probably the mostimpressive part about it is it
does have two separate screens,one for each eye.
And a lot of people are like,well, what does that mean?
I what what good does that dome?
Well, everybody's eyes, whetheryou know it or not, probably are

(26:55):
not equal in and being able tofocus, right?
So when you have two separatescreens, you can individually
adjust for each eye.
If you're 2020 in one eye andyou're you don't have as good a
vision in the other eye, you canadjust that so that it never
really is blurry and it comesthat the whole image comes
together better for you thanthan ever.

(27:17):
And it's one of those thingsthat I don't think people really
appreciate unless you havereally uh fought to be able to
uh binoculars in before.
Because some people say I hatebinoculars, I never get them
focused.
That might be the reason why,right?
Um but again, uh the simplicityof use on the quest, how small

(27:38):
they are, how lightweight theyare.
I just absolutely love them.
Um, even the focus and the zoomwheels that is on the bridge.
So it is actually like a littlewheel that you can, you know,
operate with one hand.
You don't have to hold them withboth hands, you can hold it with
one, you can, you know, adjustthe focus, you can adjust the
zoom uh with the with it in thebridge.

(28:00):
They're easy to turn.
Um, man, just a great unit allthe way around.
Um, I really struggled to findany other binocular out there
that I like better than a quad.
So um, again, just a fantasticunit.
So um they also did come outwith a few more uh monoculars uh
in the Lumi series, butbasically uh the only thing to

(28:23):
know there is they just addedmore units with a laser range
finder in them.
They didn't really come out withanything new in that, you know,
uh arena, uh, but just added thelaser range finder to more of
those units.
Um, the Lumi, again, a moresmaller compact unit, runs off
of an 18650 battery.
You're gonna have to change yourbatteries a little more often.

(28:44):
But if you want that supersmall, compact, fit in your
hand, fit in your front pocket,uh type of monocular.
Um, and the best way to describethat one is is it's it's the
size of just a regular laserrange finder that you hold in
your hand and uh go from there.
Um, but that's really prettymuch all that uh knockpicks had

(29:05):
to offer, um, with the exceptionof we they did showcase at Shot
Show the Mate 1280.
Um, the Mate 1280 is a clip-on.
Um, some people are familiarwith the Mate 640 that they had
out.
Um, this one does have a laserrange finder built into it,
which is is something that theydid not have before.

(29:26):
Um, and again, it's a 1280.
So it's it's it was a fantasticlooking unit.
I do think the reason why it hasnot been released yet, that
seems to me that they'reprobably still working out some
kinks on making sure that thingswork right so that when it does
finally get released, thatthere's a positive consumer
experience with it.

(29:47):
Um, a lot of people ask me whydoes this stuff release over in
in in other countries before wesee it here?
And that is the primary reasonwhy.
Nobody wants to get into asituation where you know you get
the product and then there's allkinds of issues and everybody
have to end up sending themback.
Not only is it expensive for thethe distributors, but it's it's

(30:09):
it's also not a very goodconsumer experience.
So um one thing that was kind ofneat that we did see on the the
main 1280 is that they actuallyhad like a ring that went on the
back where your your focus leverwas, and then when you actually
turn the focus, it actuallybrought the the data on the
screen.
Uh, it actually brought itcloser together so that when you

(30:34):
know you zoom in, you don't losethe data on the screen, kind of
like an ocular zoom does.
So that was a really coolfeature, but I think that might
be something that they'reworking on perfecting as well,
too.
So um that was that was uh aneat deal.
And I do think that the Mate1280 probably, you know, based
off of everybody's best guess,um, hopefully it will be out

(30:55):
before the start of the nexthunting season, uh, in you know,
talking October, November timeframe.
So hopefully we get to seesomething like that by then.
So it uh um pulsar, um, again,um, I think we've talked about
it year over year.
Pulsar's been a little bit of astruggle out there.

(31:16):
Um, they've been having a toughtime finding their way.
Seems like uh uh knockpics andrix and some of the other newer
companies out there have foundout found some pretty innovative
ways to come to market and uhhave uh kind of surpassed Pulsar
in the customer service and uminnovative department.

(31:37):
Um, they did come out with acouple new units uh this year,
uh one being uh the trail three.
So they had the trail one, thatwas the one that everybody had,
you know, point of impact issuesfor forever.
They came out with the trail twoafter that.
The trail two never really couldrecover from the the trail one

(31:59):
issues.
Um, and uh now we're on to thetrail three.
Um little confused on why theychose the trail name again, um
uh based off of past experience,but uh they did come out with an
XR50.
Uh it's a 640 by 480, it's a 640by 480, not a 640 by 512 like

(32:20):
some of the other units are.
Um again, it's a 3x base mag,and the 18 millikelvin um net D
rating that it came out with isjust it's all right.
It's interesting.
There's other scopes out therethat are already better than
that.
Um, and then there is alsoanother variant that is the 384

(32:40):
version, uh, the XQ50, and itcomes in as a three and a half
power base mag.
It is a 15 millikelvin uh scope.
So a little bit of differencethere.
Uh, one's got the a little bitwill do a little bit better in
the high humidity than the otherone.
Um, but I I guess the onenotable thing that I noticed on
these particular units is thatthey are marketing them to

(33:04):
operate in extreme temperatures.
Um, most of your thermal scopesare rated down to negative four.
These were rated down tonegative 25.
So um if you are going out inextreme cold temperatures, I'd
be honest with you, I haven'ttested it out.
I don't know if they really dowork well in in negative 25
degree weather.

(33:25):
Um, but uh they they do claim tohave a little bit better
resistance to you know the supercold weather out there um and go
from there.
And I'm probably gonna have toget you to uh test one out for
us because I I don't have muchinterest in going weather
anymore.

SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
So I don't want one, I don't want to go when it's
that cold either.

SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
So it's uh uh one of the things that they did come up
with on this unit is what theycall automatic display
deactivation, which it's just asensor on the back side of the
scope.
I do think it's a cool feature.
Um, we've been selling um youknow shuttered eye cups for a
long, long time uh for part ofthe purpose to you know keep the

(34:09):
light from shining back on you.
And that's exactly what thisdoes is it will shut the screen
off when your eyes not in it, umto you know uh prevent from
shining back on you and and gofrom there.
So um they also they they'reboasting on this particular unit
that it has 10 differentshooting profiles and a hundred

(34:30):
different zeroing distances, andthat sounds interesting, but
man, I tell you what, I don'tknow how I could have 10
different shooting profiles anda hundred different zeroing
distances and even know whateach one of them are.

SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
So I was gonna say, don't normally they have three,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Uh normally between three and five.
Uh typically your ones that havefive shooting profiles uh will
have three different uh zeroingdistances per profile.
So that gives you more like 15.
And then vice versa, if theyhave three, then they usually
give you five zeroing distances,which still gets you to that 15.

(35:46):
Um, it's just a different way toslice the pie.
Um, that's interesting.
But now the the 10 shootingprofiles and 100 zeroing
distances, I'm a little confusedon how anybody would ever keep
that straight.
So I don't find that to be agreat um, you know, additional
feature, uh, or one that's veryuseful, if you will.
Um, they did uh improve thedisplay in this particular unit.

(36:09):
It is a 1920 by 1080.
Um, still not quite the qualityof a 2560 display, um, but it is
round.
Um, and it is a 1920 by 1080display.
So, you know, um still a greatunit.
Um, the trails are one of thoseunits that have taken an
extremely long period of time tocome out to the dealers since

(36:32):
Shot Show.
Um, so we have just recentlygotten them in and we have not
done a ton of testing with themyet.
So, news to follow on those.
Um, you know, if if we find thatuh there's something uh really
worth uh going after, we'llmaybe do a follow-up uh with you
and let you know that and kindof go from there.
Um the only other thing uh italso looks interesting, it is a

(36:58):
different looking unit.
And at first it and and that'sone thing I probably should have
explained there too, is that itis a compact style unit.
Uh Pulsar went away from thecompact style unit several years
ago.

SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
And Trail 2, really.

SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
With the Trail 2, yeah, and now they're coming
back with saying, well, maybethat wasn't the greatest
decision, uh, and coming outwith a another compact style
scope.
Um I don't have one to to showyou, but the um best way I can
describe it is it is a mixbetween a compact style scope

(37:38):
and a tube style scope.
Um the one thing that it doeshave is it has a uh a dial up on
top of it that I'm not realexcited about.
There's actually some buttons onthe side of it, um stuff like
that.
I think that it's probably gonnacause more confusion with

(38:02):
current users than what itwould.
If you're a new user and it'sthe first time you've used a
thermal, I'm sure you probablyget used to it.
But um with the location of someof the dials and the buttons and
stuff like that, I I think itcould be a little bit of uh a
bigger adjustment, if you will,uh for for current users.

(38:23):
But uh um yeah, and and and andspeaking of a lot of buttons,
they came out with a symbiont.
Um, and the symbiont is abinocular, but it is a
multi-spectral uh binocular, andand a lot of people may not know
what multi-spectral means, butit means that it does have two

(38:45):
different types of night visionor um uh well night vision in
it, and and it may be eitherdigital night vision or thermal.
So it this one's got both.
Okay, so it's multi-spectral.
So they're calling it day ornight use.
I hate that because you can usea thermal during the day or

(39:05):
night, it doesn't matter.
Um, right, but this one wouldhave a color version to it, and
then also it does have thedigital night vision, which
means it does have an IR lightin it and so forth, um, and and
stuff like that.
It is big, it is a large unit.
Um, I thought that when Pulsarcame out with a new binocular,

(39:29):
they would maybe take a fewnotes from the quest out there
and maybe make it a little bitlighter weight, smaller and
easier to handle.
And they went the oppositedirection, and it's actually
bigger than a merger and umheavier.
And holy moly, talk about a lotof buttons.
Um, it has seven buttons on topof it.

(39:53):
It is to me pretty confusing.
Um there is a dial on top of itto adjust the menu.
There is a slide switch for theIR light.
There's two knobs to control thefocus on and off switch.
Um I'm sorry, there's two knobsto control the focus, and it's

(40:16):
just a very complicated to useunit so far.
Um, we have had a chance to playwith them.
Um I I definitely need to get alot more time behind it in order
to get used to it.
Um, but again, any unit that Ihave to spend that much time
trying to figure out frustratesme, to be honest with you.

(40:38):
Um, and it does have a separateon-off switch.
Um, so we're talking buttonsglore here.
There's buttons all over theplace on this thing.
Um, but ergonomically, the wholething is just confusing.
And um even the focus that theythey did do dials like the quest

(41:01):
does, but they put the dials sofar back close to your eye that
they're hard to, you know,ergonomically, they're just hard
to access.
Um the the tools that they didcome out with, one's a DXT50.
Uh, it is a 1280 unit.
Um, but the millikelvin ratingon it is not good.
It's back all the way up to asub-40 millikelvin.

(41:25):
Um, it is a 2x basemag 50millimeter lens.
Um, I'm not I I and I personallyhave not had the time to check
this unit out in adverse weatherconditions, but just based off
of the specs, it's probably notgonna be good.
Um, they also do have the DXR50.

(41:45):
Uh, the DXR50 is a 640 by 480,uh, 35 millikelvin.
Again, not the best rating asfar as humidity goes.
Um, it's a 4X base mag.
Um, the 4X base mag out of a 50millimeter lens, I am a little
bit concerned about as well.

(42:05):
Too, it's going to be a verynarrow field of view.
Uh, even based off of theirspecs, it is a very narrow field
of view.
Um, the DXR50, I have notreceived one yet.
We have gotten the DXT50s, butnot the DXRs.
So um waiting to see, you know,kind of what that one looks
like.
But based off of the specs, Ithink the 4X base mag is we've

(42:27):
learned that the 4X base mag isuh there's a very limited market
out there that really wants a 4Xbase mag.
So um again, um, I will tell youthe lens caps are nice.
Um, I really do like the lenscaps, and it's weird to geek out
over lens caps, but uh they dohave really nice lens caps that
snap onto the front and they'reeasily to replace.

(42:49):
Um uh and and they just theyhave a nice uh system there for
the lens caps that that maybeeven you know knock pics could
could take notice on on theirquest and maybe do something
similar to that.
So um, but yeah, I mean that'spretty much all the products
that we saw, you know, at ShotShow.
There, you know, was you knowsome other thermals there, but

(43:13):
uh not all ones that we'rereally looking at at this point.
Um, you know, as you know, abusiness owner, we have to take
a look at, you know, are peopleoffering as good a warranties
and are they offering a productthat is competitive uh in price
and quality with what's alreadyout there in the market?

(43:36):
Um there are some things that Isaw at Shot Show that I was
impressed by by some of the newcompanies.
Uh one of them that I think thatwe are we're gonna start
carrying very soon is uh some ofthe DXT thermals.
Um and go from there.
The I'm sorry, the DNT, theDNTs.
Um, but the DNT thermals, um, Iwas impressed with what I saw at

(43:59):
Shot Show, and um I thinkthey're gonna be they're not a
premier thermal brand, um, butthey do have some nice features
to the DNTs and uh uh go fromthere.
But uh that is is probably oneof the the things that um you
know I've been a little bitcautious about getting into

(44:22):
until they get some of the kinksworked out on their thermals,
also kinks worked out in theirtheir customer service and so
forth.
The one thing that I I'm still alittle bit leery of is you know
uh not as good a warranty assome of the the other places and
and so forth.
So, but we're working throughthat, and um, you know, we'll

(44:43):
let you know if we do decide toto bring those on full bore and
and go from there.
So it uh but more importantlythan talking about you know new
product that's out there on themarket, which I know everybody
wants to hear about.
I totally get that, but uh Iwanted to kind of go over just
some of the questions that weget on a daily basis over and

(45:05):
over.
Now that we're going into thelate spring and and and going
into the summer months, um, youknow, we always get you know all
these phone calls, people askingus questions over and over.
I know you probably get them aswell, too, you know.
Um, and and you know, one of thebiggest ones is just, you know,

(45:26):
is it worth buying a thermoscopenow?
You know, now that we're youknow, hunting seasons for most
states are starting to come to aclose.
Um, and you know, would you buynow or would you wait?
You know, um, to be honest withyou, I get that question even in
the middle of the season.
Is this a good time to buy?
You know, when should I buy?

(45:46):
When's the best time to buy?
And I gotta tell you, I that's areally tough question.
Um, you know, I don't have acrystal ball.
Uh, I'm sure you don't either.
If somebody out there does,please call me.
I'll probably buy it from you.
Yeah, you know, but uh, youknow, it's just tough to know,
you know, what is going tohappen with these thermals.

(46:09):
And, you know, we've even seenprices go up, we've seen prices
go down.
Um we've seen things get hard toget.
You know, they may be popular,but they then become hard to to
to actually acquire.
You know, and it's just it's ait's a tough question to answer.

(46:30):
You know, as I look around andand as everybody does in the
news right now, there's, youknow, tariffs are, you know,
sometimes they're legal,sometimes they're illegal.
There's world events out therelike the the war with Iran right
now.
Fuel costs are going through theroof.
You know, I just uh saw anarticle today that airline uh

(46:51):
tickets are going through theroof because fuel costs have
gone up when you know most ofthese products are being flown
into the United States.
So you know um you know whatwhat's going to happen?
I don't know.
I wish I I had a great answer tothat.
The best answer I can give isthat if you are the type of guy

(47:13):
that needs a little bit moretime to get acquainted with a
thermal scope because it is morecomplicated than you know
anything you know than just aday scope.
You know especially with today'sballistic calculators and all
that stuff there's a lot to getfamiliar with right so I do

(47:34):
encourage people to buy now andum get familiar with it before
the next hunting season.
But I also will tell you ifyou're gonna be extremely upset
that a scope goes on sale for$500 um or you know a cheaper

(47:55):
price than what you paid for itbefore the season starts, then I
got to say you need to wait uhbecause we just don't know
what's going to happen.
Now the the problem with waitinglike I said prices could
actually go back up.
I I'll be honest with you I wasuh uh blown away by the fact
that uh you know knock pickslowered the price of the S60R to

(48:18):
$64.99.
Just absolutely blew me away.
Right.
I'm like you know I even calledthem and argued with them.
I'm like why are you guys doingthat?
I mean it is arguably one of thebest thermal scopes out there in
the market and now it's evencheaper.
You know um but I do think thateven that particular scope could

(48:40):
end up going back up in price umjust based off of all the world
events that are going on and soforth.
So um once again if you're a guythat is going to value having
your scope through the summer tobe able to go out and get
familiar with it, it is so muchnicer to go out and get familiar
with a scope when the weather'snice than um you know trying to

(49:01):
do this all right before theseason starts and you know then
you're rushing and you're tryingto get everything done before
you you know uh want to go outand just relax and enjoy hunting
um then you know now's the timeto buy and and if not if you're
more price conscious and you'reyou you would rather um wait and

(49:22):
see what happens again thesethermal manufacturers they don't
let us know when they're gonnadrop prices on stuff so um you

(50:40):
know we get caught with it justas as much as is as the end user
does as well too so um yeah Ijust don't don't really know how
else to answer you know thatquestion and and go from there
other than uh that yeah no Iagree I think uh the other thing
too is if you're really that onthe fence about it I would just

(51:02):
get what you can afford so itdoesn't you know hurt you that
bad you know if you if you ifyou're really on the fence about
it I encourage people just toget what they can afford and you
can always upgrade at some pointbut yeah well and the biggest
thing is too is if you don'tknow if it's the right time or
not man give us a call we cangive you all the updated

(51:24):
information because informationtruly does change daily um I
have no idea what email I'mgonna get from what manufacturer
or phone call I'm gonna get yeahand things change right you know
um nobody knows um so um it itis best just to give us a call
and talk about it um you knowand we can tell you I will tell

(51:46):
you that in my experience if athermoscope been out for a
anywhere from eight months to ayear and it hasn't changed in
price since it was released it'sprobably getting close to being
due for a price reduction ofsome sort um if it's a unit that
just dropped in price chancesare it's not going to go any any

(52:09):
deeper in price anytime soonthere's always exceptions to
that rule and I know people haveseen it both ways right but at
the same time um you know if ifthere's a an older scope out
there um and it hasn't had aprice change on it it's probably
about due but we can help walkyou through that um and it's

(52:33):
what we do every day is stare atthese thermal scopes and study
the prices on them and and uh wecan kind of give you an idea if
we feel that something's goingto happen uh based off of what
we hear from our reps and and soon and so forth.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:48):
Yeah that makes sense and uh I'll along with
current events we've sort of hadsome events in the thermal
industry lately that have kindof shook people up a bit uh and
one of them being the Rick'sbattery recall can you uh tell
us a little bit about that asmuch as we would all like to not

(53:09):
have ever heard of the Rick'sbattery recall yep it it's a
huge situation out there.

SPEAKER_00 (53:15):
Um it's it's unfortunate uh so what Drew's
talking about is on the 18650batteries that uh rix has
there's been a battery recall uma lot of people are pretty upset
about it um I gotta tell you umit's a voluntary recall okay so

(53:37):
what that means is is you cansend it back if you want to you
don't have to right um therehave been some situations where
a battery has overheated umthere's been some situations
where um one that I'm aware ofthat one of the batteries did

(53:58):
explode okay um I've got to tellyou though it's one out of
thousands and thousands andthousands of batteries right to
have one explode out of all ofthose it really makes me wonder

(54:18):
what why they would do it even avoluntary recall right um but
there then after that was somepeople bringing up oh I went to
put my battery into my chargerand it sparked and then they
freak out right um a couplethings wrapped around that um I

(54:39):
will tell you in my shop alone Iliterally have thousands and
thousands of 18650 batteriesready for sale we have them in
every thermal scope that's inthe packages right we have
millions and millions of dollarsworth of inventory in our shop
all of it sits together and allof it has been there for eight

(55:00):
years.
Yeah I've never had a problem soI am not disparaging the issues
that some other people have hadum one of the other incidences
that I I have been made aware ofwas that somebody had an 18650
battery in their pocket and itburned their leg.

(55:22):
And I I would never want that tohappen to me.
It's just like having a hot hotcasing run you know run down
your shirt when you're at therange right um makes you jump a
little bit but um you know thesituation with some of this
stuff is makes me wonder did theguy have a set of keys in his

(55:42):
pocket and a lot of people saywell what difference does that
make well they're unprotectedbatteries right so and even if
it's a protected battery doesn'tmatter um if the the two ends of
them get contact with with uhkeys that are dangling in your
pocket or a big wad of keys it'sgonna short out um so that is

(56:02):
one thing that that I wouldhighly you know um discourage is
putting things like that in yourpocket with with a bunch of
change or keys or what have youthe other situation with the
battery that's sparked goinginto a charger um you know if
the battery the 18650 batterythe outside of the shell of that

(56:26):
battery is the negative side ofthe battery the uh top of it is
the positive side and if it'sgot a button on it if it's a
button top or a flat top doesn'tmatter but the top side of that
battery is the positive side ifthe uh plastic on the outside of
that battery gets damaged orpeeled off or anything like that

(56:49):
you do run the risk of itgetting shorted a lot easier
than if it does have an intactplastic wrap around it.
And in the situation of puttingit into a charger and it's
sparking the only way that thatthat could have happened is if
you had a um the top of it youknow the plastic started to come

(57:11):
off of it or what have you soyou know um I think the whole
battery recall was you know umin my opinion a little bit
premature but um you know I dothink Ricks has taken the high
road and said listen we're we'lltake them back if you want us to
we'll change them out I Ipersonally never seen a battery

(57:33):
uh go bad but I will tell youthat if you ever have a battery
that you know uh starts to swellum maybe it starts to get hard
to put into your your thermal orwhat have that's a pretty good
indication of a swollen batterydon't use it right throw it away
and grab the next one um thesebatteries are anywhere from

(57:56):
$29.99 a pair um maybe up to 30or maybe even$50 a battery right
but it's not worth using so umif you have any that have the
plastic wrap that's damaged onthem either re-wrap them or get
rid of them just get a new oneright um if you put one in a

(58:19):
charger and it starts tooverheat or it feels like it's
getting hotter than normal thenyeah I'd replace the battery
once again you know it's allcommon sense stuff um that um
you know you can do uh in orderto prevent any of that stuff
from happening I would say use aquality charger number one go to

(58:39):
our website there's not acharger that we sell that's not
a quality charger that has overovercharge and and undercharge
protection on it.
The other thing is is to makesure that you're using the right
uh wall adapters to plug in sothat it doesn't supply more
power to the charger than whatis is necessary.

(59:04):
I mean that's what I would do.
I know uh Rick's has even comeout we do have them on our
website as well they've got firebags I don't know if you've seen
those or not Drew uh but it'sit's a little silver bag that is
a fire bag so if you want tocharge your batteries inside
that bag you can or if you justwant to store them in there but

(59:25):
it's it's what they're made foris to prevent if that battery
would would catch on fire orwhat have you um it's supposed
to protect you know from burningdown your house or what have you
so um those are available outthere um you can buy them if you
want um we do have them in stockum i feel obligated to stock

(59:46):
them just based off of um youknow uh they're available so you
know but i'll be honest with youi don't use them um me myself
personally um but i you knowalso don't want to be
responsible for you knowsomebody that that burns our
house down and they think it wasa battery that that caused it

(01:00:06):
and and so forth so um the thethe interesting thing that's
kind of come out of this rixbattery recall is that rix is
claiming at this point that uhthey're no longer gonna sell any
rix branded batteries so i don'tknow what that looks like in the
future right now um whether theygo with a battery manufacturer

(01:00:26):
and just sell their particularbatteries but i did think it was
interesting to hear that the rixbranded 18650 batteries are are
being discontinued so um we weare currently out of them um i i
don't believe that anybody elseyou know has got um any
available but uh they may havestill some lingering around out

(01:00:50):
there um and go from there ifyou are confused about which
18650 battery uh fits in yourunit give us a call um we've got
all the units on display here wecan check different branded
batteries make sure that theyfit there are some bricks
products out there that requirethe longer batteries there are

(01:01:12):
other products like for examplethe Storm S6 had this one
earlier this morning uh theStorm S6R uh they were want
extra batteries for it and itactually takes a shorter 18650
battery um and go from there andI guess to bring that up as well
common question we get all thetime is you know I bought 18650s
off of Amazon and they don't fitlike what did I do wrong?

(01:01:35):
They're 18650s right aren't theysupposed to fit um lithium ion
batteries then that's what theseare uh lithium ion 18650
batteries there's a there'sthere's no real standard like a
double A or a triple A batteryas people understand it you know
uh double AAA nine volt D cell Ccell batteries super easy

(01:01:57):
because you always know thatthey're gonna fit because
there's a standard wrappedaround that um there are 18650
batteries that are longer inlength that won't fit in certain
products leading to a lot ofpeople's frustrations but once
again if you ever have anyquestions on you know what
battery fits in what unit andwhich one we feel is the best I

(01:02:20):
will tell you we don't testevery single battery out there
in the market there's literallythousands of different batteries
out there but we do have somethat are our favorites that work
extremely well um we've evenrecently just started carrying
the um the keep power uh 18650uh all weather uh so they're the

(01:02:40):
low temp batteries um and againjust kind of got them in here
recently but the low tempbatteries um you know claim that
they will discharge at a betterrate um all the way down to
lower temperatures and you canuse up to 80% of the battery
before the battery actually cutsout and and doesn't allow you to

(01:03:02):
use any more of the battery soone of the things that we've run
up against is people using an18650 battery and the battery
indicator gets down to about 25%maybe maybe even 30 35 40 and
then the show the the scope justshuts off it just cuts out and
they're like man I thought I hadmore battery power and my my

(01:03:25):
scope just cut out they don'tknow if they've got a bad
battery chances are you're usingit in super cold weather and
that battery decided to cut outbecause it it's not designed to
be used and that cold oftemperatures if that makes
sense.
So again keep power came outwith a battery that is designed

(01:03:45):
now to be used in super coldtemperatures and so forth um uh
with still protecting that 18650battery um which kind of reminds
me too is you know when wetalked about swelling of
batteries you know how a batterycan swell um typically what

(01:04:05):
causes that is if you dischargean 18650 battery and it gets
extremely low in power right umso lithium ion is ions jumping
around inside that cell the morethat it's charged the faster
they move right the more it'sdischarged the slower those ions

(01:04:27):
move okay to create the power ifyou get an 18650 battery that
gets severely discharged andthen you leave it in your truck
for example you know in supercold weather and that battery
continues to decline in power ordecrease its power because it's
sitting there not charged andit's in super cold temperatures

(01:04:49):
it can get to the point where itcan freeze and break or freeze
and swell right um or even if itdoesn't swell it can damage the
internals of that battery and Ithink that's what a lot of
people are running up against isthey've they're leaving their
discharged batteries in the backof their truck or in the

(01:05:09):
backseat of their truck.
Their truck sits outside allnight uh what have you it's
negative 10 uh at night and youknow you start having a battery
that you're like man I justbought this battery and it
worked great and today itdoesn't if that's the case
something's happened to thatbattery that it didn't like you
know what I'm saying um and gofrom there.

(01:05:32):
So um yeah and you know theother thing is with 18650
batteries they are throwawaybatteries okay they are you know
one of these batteries that youknow I will tell you if you use
your batteries often I would Iwould swap my 18650s out at
least every two years um notsaying you have to do it every

(01:05:53):
year um every three years forsure if you don't use them very
often um but if you start tonotice that you're not getting
as much life with that batteryum I I would swap it out um go
from there like I said they'rethey're inexpensive.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:08):
Yeah I'm also under the impression that um you know
good practice for carryingaround 18650s is you should not
carry them just plain in yourpocket like you know I've seen
the things on Facebook and stuffof people having batteries burn
and stuff in their pockets.
And I'm under the impression youshould always have it in a case

(01:06:29):
or something like this is how Icarry mine just in a little
plastic you know case just sothat way it's protected and you
don't have these you know thingshappen hopefully um most
batteries that you buy like thekeep power batteries they do
come with that little plasticcase that you just showed there

(01:06:49):
that's this is the key powercase.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:51):
Yep I battery in there but yeah the the only one
problem with those cases are isthat if you do go out in extreme
cold and you drop that case theyalmost shatter um we do have on
our website 18650 batteryholders now um we just got done

(01:07:11):
um making them and getting themput in stock so I'll have to get
some of those up to you so youcan check them out.
But um they actually um you knowthey don't have a door that
opens up and closes becauseeventually that hinge will break
on you.
But it does slide down in theyare retained with a clip at the
top and you can easily justslide them in and out.

(01:07:33):
So um they're really a slicksetup.
We do have them in a two batterythree battery or four battery
18650 configuration.
And we are also getting ready tomake those for uh to be able to
snap on right onto a tripod leg.
So that's gonna be kind of coolas well too.
But uh um yeah so there'sthere's some options out there
to keep your batteries protectedwhen they're not we also do make

(01:07:57):
some battery protectors for likethe square batteries that that
uh come with like the the theRico's and uh stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:07):
So check out our website you might you might be
able to find a battery protectorthat that slides up over the top
it just it does help keep thethe uh prongs inside those
square batteries nice and cleanum and keeps them protected as
well too so um yeah yeah thatmakes sense no it's all good
tips uh for everybody running18650s it's becoming more and

(01:08:29):
more of a thing as you knoweverybody it seems like more and
more scopes to everyone thatcomes out they need the 18650s
so uh it's all it's all relativeand good to know and you know a
little bit of safety for yourbatteries too but uh another
thing too that's kind of uh it'snot new I know it's not new to
you but uh it's it's somethingthat's popping up as you know a

(01:08:54):
newer thing that I'm guessing alot of guys aren't familiar with
uh and another thing that Ricksent out recently that I saw
come across uh an email orsomething recently uh is sensor
burn so can we can you kind ofexplain what sensor burn is and
how it happens and how guys canavoid it so sensor burn is

(01:09:19):
looking at

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:20):
Something that is extremely hot for a long period
of time to the point where itdegrades or uh basically ruins
your sensor.
Um so sensor burn is somethingthat is becoming more and more
common all the time, right?
Like um, we used to never hearof it, to be honest with you.

(01:09:43):
The reason why is because thesensitivity of the sensors were
not as good as they are today.
So the more sensitive we makethermals, the better that
they're gonna perform in adverseweather conditions like high
humidity, fog, and rain.
And when when I talk about highhumidity, I'm really talking

(01:10:05):
about anything over that 80%mark for humidity, right?
So the more sensitive we makethem, the better they perform in
bad weather.
But it also is just like awelding helmet.
The more of the protection thatyou take away to make it more
sensitive, the more light orheat that allows to hit the

(01:10:30):
sensor, right?
So now that we're coming up with15 millikelvin, uh 13
millikelvin, 12 millikalvinscopes uh with a net D rating,
uh, you know, all of a suddenthey're way more susceptible to
um, you know, sensor burn.

(01:10:50):
Um and the sensor burn, what itlooks like to me is for a lack
of better words, I wish I had apicture of it, but it looks like
worms zigzagging around on thescreen.
Because typically, if you areout walking around, let's just
say you leave the lens cap openon your thermal scope and it's

(01:11:10):
sticking straight up in the airbecause you've got it, you know,
slung to your back, right?
And it's high noon and the sun'sstraight up above you.
Chances are your thermal scopeis waving back and forth at the
sun, and there is a potential toend up having a a line go around

(01:11:30):
on your screen, and it almostlooks like a worm that just did
not hold still because it wasmoving around constantly, right?
Um, that is sensor burn.
Uh, the the the biggest problemwith sensor burn is is that it
is not a warrantable situation.
Um, most manufacturers are tothe point now where they will

(01:11:52):
not warranty um any of thesensor burn uh thermals out
there.
Um, and and again, it's becausethey're seeing it way more than
what we used to as well, too,just because all the all the
sensors are becoming moresensitive.
Um so the one thing that I wouldtell you is I used to tell
everybody don't point yourthermal at anything that is

(01:12:15):
hotter than 500 degrees for along period of time.
And a long period of time meansyou know more than two to three
minutes, right?
However, with how much moresensitive all of these thermals
are getting, I literally had aguy walk out of our shop the
other day and he literally spunaround and it was it was during

(01:12:35):
the day and he was looking atthe thermal and the the thermal
flashed right across the sun,and I thought, oh man, I hope
that didn't cause any problems.
And I told him, I'm like, hey,don't don't point that at the
sun anymore, blah, blah, blah.
And I went to look through it,and just from that quick,
really, I want to say it was ahalf a second that it was

(01:12:57):
pointed at the sun, it actuallyhad thermal burn in the sensor.
Um, and I was like, Oh my god!He just, you know, came over to
look at some thermals and heruined a$2,000 thermal.
Um but um again, uh as long asit's not for a long period of

(01:13:18):
time, you should be able to workthe thermal burn out of the
sensor.
Um, and one of the ways that youcan do that is by leaving the
the thermal on for a long periodof time with the nuke set to
automatic.
Okay, so you definitely want therefresh or the nuke uh set to

(01:13:40):
automatic so that it constantlykeeps refreshing.
Keep the lens cap closed, hookup an external battery pack or
whatever you got to do to keepthat thing powered up for a
long, long period of time.
And I'm talking about three daysstraight.
If you do that, we have seensome of them work the thermal

(01:14:01):
burn out of them.
Some of them don't.
Um but some of them work it outto the point where it's livable.
Yes, you probably wish that youdidn't do it, but there are ways
to try to mitigate the thethermal burn in some of these
scopes.

(01:14:21):
But with today's standards andhow sensitive these thermals are
getting, I would tell you Iwouldn't point it at anything
over 250 degrees for more than afew seconds.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:32):
Okay.
Um it's always cool that when uhsomebody pulls up in a vehicle
is to look right in at theradiator and stuff like that.
Boy, don't do it in thesummertime when things are super
hot, because those things thatif you look at them long enough,
they could cause thermal burn ininto the sensor um and uh go

(01:14:54):
from there.
Um but if you ever do run acrossa situation that you know you
are seeing these squiggly, youknow, faded out lines uh across
your screen, you know, feel freeto give us a call.
We'll, you know, we'll do whatwe can to help you get that um
you know solved.
But at the end of the day, um itmight be a warranty issue that

(01:15:18):
you know um it's not a warrantyissue, it's it's where you you
will send for warranty, butyou're probably gonna have to
pay for it.
Um and the sensor is a veryexpensive part of a thermoscope.
Um, if it's a discontinuedproduct, I'm gonna say you're
probably not gonna have muchluck getting it fixed.
Um, if it is not a um if it'sstill a uh product that is in

(01:15:44):
production, uh chances areyou'll be able to get it fixed.
You're probably not gonna likethe price, but it it'll probably
be able to be fixed.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:52):
Yeah, that's rough.
And I know uh guys are got getthese expensive scopes and they
take awesome videos and theywant to take them out in the
daytime and record their hunt.
That's what most people areusing them for, I think, at
least what I hear.
Um, but just be conscious ofthat and know that you know,
where kind of where you'repointing your gun, your lens cap

(01:16:15):
is closed, uh, you know, allthose type things.
I'm not saying don't use it inthe daytime, but just be
conscious of those things.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:23):
Exactly.
If you want to use it during theday, man, go out and use it
during the day.
There is no issue with thatwhatsoever.
Don't put it at the sun.
Um, if you're out during theday, um, it's treat it like the
if you're familiar with the oldGen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3 night
vision, man, keep the lens capon it all the time.

(01:16:45):
Um, you know, and only open itup when you're gonna use it.
Um, that is the best way to doit.
If you're at night and you'relooking at, you know, uh a car
coming down the road, man, don'tworry about it.
You're you're not gonna burn anyany sensors or anything like
that.
Um, you know, in the summertime,uh, super hot, somebody just,

(01:17:06):
you know, uh grabbed a foot fullof brake uh or slammed the
brakes on on their car and theirrotor's roasting hot and and you
go and you shine it at it,you're gonna know instantly that
it's super hot because it'sgonna be super bright on the
screen, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:22):
Don't look at it for a long period of time.
That's the best way to preventthat and go from there.
So yeah, may save you some bucksdown the road.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:31):
Yeah, no, I don't think anybody wants to replace a
thermal sensor if they don'thave to, uh especially if you
have a discontinued scope andwhatever.
I mean, you're gonna be uh SOLon that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:42):
So yeah, discontinued or out of warranty,
that's that's an ugly situationfor sure.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:48):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, we want to avoid that anduh don't do that.
So uh yeah, I think that's uhmost of the things we wanted to
cover today for you guys, andjust want to touch base again,
uh the Sportsman's Expo in theDells.

(01:18:09):
We are right across from uhWhitetail Adrenaline and Working
Class Bow Hunter.
So don't miss us.
And if you got a thermal youwant to check out, uh stop in
check it out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:22):
And uh yeah, we'll have a lot of different thermals
there, um, for sure.
It is very difficult to take youknow everything to the show.
Um, but uh we'll definitely haveuh a lot of thermals there, a
lot of good stuff to lookthrough, especially if you're a
first thermal, you know, uhbuyer.
Um, it is a great show to go toto be able to look through

(01:18:45):
things, um, you know, seethrough them and stuff like
that.
Uh, but if you uh don't have theability to come to the show, um,
we also uh, you know, uh one ofthe things that we strive for at
Dark Knight Outdoors is to getpeople into the right product
the first time around based offof what you tell us you're using

(01:19:06):
it for.
Um, you know, um everybody, youknow, asks me every day uh
what's the best thermal scopeout there?
And I I tell everybody it's thebest one out there is the one
that fits your needs and yourbudget the best, right?
So at the end of the day, thereis no right or wrong answer.

(01:19:26):
There's over 120 differentthermal scopes out there on the
market today to choose from.
Um, it's it's a big pool ofconfusion, if you will.
Um, and at the end of the day,that's what we do, that's what
we strive for.
And not only that, I will put aguarantee that if you call me up

(01:19:49):
and we discuss a thermoscope andI recommend something to you and
you don't like that thermoscopefor one reason or another, I
will absolutely unequivocallyget you into the right product.
Um, send it back to me, and Iwill get you into the right
product um and go from there.
Um, you know, um at the end ofthe day, um, nobody wants to get

(01:20:14):
an expensive thermal.
I don't care if it's twothousand dollars or eight
thousand dollars.
Um they don't want to get thewrong product and have something
that they can't use.
And uh we understand that, andwe're definitely willing to work
with people to make sure thatthey get into the right product
the first time around.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:31):
So yep, I agree.
Uh, and if you are a tech guy,you have technical questions,
you want to know about you knowmillikalvin ratings and you know
uh what's just a lot of peopleask a lot of people ask the
detection range one.
Uh thinking about the expo, Iremember you know, thinking back
to last year, a lot of peoplewant to know the detection range

(01:20:54):
of things.
Well, Jamie knows every singlespec and number out there.
So uh if you are if you're wiredthat way, call Jamie and you
guys are gonna have probably alonger conversation than uh is
necessary, but it's gonna behelpful and get you in the right
pointed in the right direction.

(01:21:14):
So, but I do think if especiallylike I get questions a lot about
guys asking me about like uh youknow lower end thermal or uh you
know uh for example a knockfixbolt uh L35R.
Uh how somebody will comparethat to another unit, and I'm

(01:21:34):
like, man, you you have notlooked through that unit if you
think that's a you know slouchof a unit, that's a nice unit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:41):
You know, like sure at$2,000?
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:45):
Yeah, you that's a great unit for the money.
Like people it'll give you thatthat that vision to look through
it and say, oh man, this is waybetter, you know, than I thought
it was gonna be.
So it's helpful to see throughthose things and realize that
you're not just blowing yourmoney on a cheap thermal, it's
still a quality unit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:04):
Yeah, and the one thing that really has changed
with thermals out there today isthat the for the last eight
years that we've been doingthis, is it's always been a race
to the the clearest thermal,yeah, the best image, right?
Because thermals started outwhen you first looked at them,

(01:22:25):
you know, eight years ago, theylook like a blob out there, you
know.
And so everybody was afraid thatthey were gonna shoot, you know,
uh the farmer's dog or they weregonna shoot something that they
weren't supposed to, and and andstuff like that.
With today's thermals, they'vegotten so good on the image
quality, even some 384s.

(01:22:45):
I got, if you remember, we hadpeople that were blown away by
384s and swore that they were640 thermals that you know were
actually 384s.
Um, the the thermal images havegotten so great that that is no
longer probably the number oneum most important thing that

(01:23:07):
people look at anymore.
Um, it's it's more if am Igetting into the right base
magnification uh scope?
Am I getting one that is gonnaperform in high humidity because
I live in one of those areaswhere it's constantly humid,
raining, foggy, you name it.
Um and there's a lot of thingsto consider.

(01:23:28):
And um at the end of the day, wewant to make sure that that we
understand what you're going tobe using it for and make sure
that we get you into the rightproduct, not just the right, you
know, uh thermal, but alsosomething that meets your
budget.
Because at the end of the day,uh, unfortunately, we don't all

(01:23:48):
have unlimited, you know,amounts of money to spend on
this.
And um it it's it's one of thosethings that everybody wants to
get into the best scope for themoney.
And uh that's what we strive todo.
And we feel that if we can dothat for you, you'll be a return
customer for a long time.
So um that's that's really whatit boils down to.

(01:24:11):
And again, we can sit and talkabout specs all day long.
I've tried that approach.
Uh, people usually remember itfor about 30 seconds and then
they forget.
But um, that's what we're herefor.
Give us a call.
Uh we're always more thanwilling to talk to you.
If uh you know we don't answeryour call the first time around,

(01:24:32):
I'll guarantee you we'll callyou back.
Um, a lot of times I'll send youa text and just say, Hey, I'm on
the phone, I'll call you back.
Uh, but we'll we'll we'll alwaysuh get to you and uh go from
there.
So and we always do have time totalk and and uh go from there.
So feel free to give us a call.
Uh we're open from 8 a.m.
to 9 p.m.
seven days a week.

(01:24:53):
Uh we run some pretty longbusiness hours, but uh um you
can talk with me, you can talkwith Garrett, you can talk to
Drew, you can talk to Joe, youcan talk to whoever you want.
Uh, the people who answer thephones here are extremely
knowledgeable when it comes tocoyote hunting and calling and
um all the thermals that wehave.

(01:25:13):
The one thing we won't do is ifwe don't have the answer, we
will get you the answer.
We won't tell you something thatis wrong or just to answer the
question.
Um, you know, we will definitelyfind out.
And I know, Drew, you said thatI'm, you know, a wizard at all
the different specs on thesescopes and so forth.
Man, there are so many out therenow.

(01:25:34):
I don't know anybody that can bethe wizard for all of them, but
there's times that that I will,you know, have a brain fart and
I'll have to go back and and andlook or whatever and and stuff
like that.
But uh um, you know, one of thethings is is when we stare
through all these thermals allday long, we can pretty much
look at the the scopes and thespecs and and tell you what it's

(01:25:55):
gonna look like.
The biggest thing with a lot ofthese scopes is all the little
nuances of them.
Um, a lot of people don'trealize and they don't see it in
the specs that when it doesn'thave an internal battery, they
don't realize that every timethey replace a battery on a
scope that they're gonna have torepower it back up.
And it can, is it a bad thing?
No.
Is it terrible?
No, is it the end of the world?

(01:26:16):
Heck no.
But at the end of the day, it'sannoying, you know.
And some people would prefer tohave that internal battery to
make sure that they don't loseany, you know, internal data or
they don't lose anything and andgo from there.
So um, you know, uh there'sthere's little nuances to even
the battery caps and you know,whether you can plug a magnetic

(01:26:38):
uh cord into the side of thescope so that you don't rip the
the the cord out of the the sideof the scope and and cause
damage and and stuff like that.
So that's one of the things thatis a big advantage to you know
reaching out and uh just give usa call.
Um, I have a lot of people thatcall me up or stop here at the

(01:26:59):
shop and they are they got theirmindset, they're like, man, this
is the scope that I'm here tolook at.
And I will tell you 95% of thetime they go home with something
different because they realizethat what they research wasn't
the right thing.
But um, yeah, give us a call andwe'd be more than happy to help
you out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:16):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Uh, it always helps to see themtalk to people who know the
units.
And if you're on the fence, callJamie, he'll help you narrow in
on what you need.
So uh on that note, we will wrapit up.
Jamie, I appreciate your time.
Uh, everybody can come see us atthe uh open season sportsmen's

(01:27:37):
expo in the Dells uh March 27thto the 29th, and check these
things out.
You can check out these nuancesand pick Jamie's brain, pick my
brain.
You want to talk calling, youwant to talk hunting?
Uh, we will have the whole crewthere, and we'd love to see you
guys.
So Jamie's info is in thedescription, as always.

(01:28:00):
If you guys haven't looked at itor haven't called, if this is
your first time listening, uhcheck it out.
And uh, Jamie, thanks.
Uh it's always a pleasuregetting to talk with you and
hear about all these goodthings.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:12):
Oh, thanks, bro.
Appreciate it, man.
Have a good one.

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S4 E15: Thermal Optics UPDATE with Dark Night Outdoors

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