December 26, 2025 • 21 mins
On the latest episode of Protecting America, Joe Imperatrice, Founder of Blue Lives Matter NYC, joins Rita Cosby to discuss the shooting at Brown University and the stunning security lapses on that campus and at many other colleges across our nation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
The Red Apple Media Podcast Network presents This is Protecting America.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now. Here's Emmy winning journalist Rita Cosby. Welcome to another
edition of Protecting America. I'm Rita Cosby. Many major security
lapses have been revealed after the horrible Brown University shooting,
and now many more details are coming out about the
(00:31):
killer who opened fire on that university classroom and then
soon afterwards killed a renowned MIT professor.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well. Joining us now to discuss this and so much
more is Joe and Paratrees. He is the founder of
Blue Lives Matter NYC. Joe, It's great to have you here, Rita.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Happy holidays, Mary Christmas. Thank you very very much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thank you you too.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
What do you think were some of the biggest mistakes
made by Brown University in this case?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Listen, we're in twenty twenty five, going into twenty twenty six,
and with the university as much money as they have
that's been said, security was absolutely a fault of theirs,
between the cameras, between not having enough armed guards, between
having accessibility, you know, and as it just came out,
you know, this custodian that supposedly saw somebody canvassing for
(01:25):
several months. You know, how does that person and other
people potentially get into a building. You know, if it's said,
how are they not confronted that their information taken a
trespass notice handed to them? You know that this is
a lot of this, in my personal opinion, has to
do at the university dropping the ball.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Lots of big mistakes. And let's start from sort of
the first one. You brought up, the cameras. How could
there not be cameras in a major university and especially
that particular building, Joe was pretty close to the residential area.
If anything, that's an important one to make sure there's
cameras in.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, and then you know at schools across the nation,
even little for little kids going to school, there should
be an eye opener that the liberal mentality needs to
stop and that we need to look out for all people,
no matter what their beliefs are, religions. We can go
on and on and on. Safety needs to be paramit
for our kids, no matter if they're elementary school or
going to college. The games of not wanting to work
(02:20):
with the police officers or hiding information need to be
over with because, as we saw here, lives are changed
for forever and some are lost. So you know, schools
all across this nation must get on their game, whether
it's consulting with the professionals or sitting down with local police,
need to understand the severity of having cameras and locking
doors and magnetic doors where only you can be access
(02:43):
whether it's a key card or a code or a fingerprint.
You know, these schools across the nation needs to get updated,
and they need to get updated. Now.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How much do you think it was sort of DEI
or civil Liberties group saying oh, you don't want that
much of an interference, or was it just lazy because
in this particular case, the president of the Brown University
kept saying, well, you know, it's an older building. We
didn't necessarily have it there, We had it in all
these She seemed to be making every excuse in the book.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
The problem is with schools all across this nation, and
being in law enforcement for twenty years, I saw firsthand
how schools do not want to worry or think about
the safety of the kids or cooperating or working alongside
of police departments across this nation. There are so many
investigations that happen daily where investigations can go so much
smoother if schools would just cooperate and see the bigger
(03:31):
picture of the safety of their children. But unfortunately they don't.
And this is not uncommon. Unfortunately, here we have a
high profile situation where it came out where we're starting
to see this. But I hate to say it, but
the fact is that schools all across this nation have
not really worked like they should with police departments with
security measures, and unfortunately we see what happens here at
(03:52):
Brown University. And I'm not saying that something like this
can wholeheartedly be prevented, but it could have absolutely been
harder for someone to gain access or maybe even have
been deterred if he was stopped, you know, earlier on.
If he was in fact the gentleman casing that location,
walking through hallways looking into classrooms. No one spoke to him,
obviously enough for him to return time and time again.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, that's a great point, because he felt comfortable enough
to keep going, and then he obviously felt comfortable enough
to carry out his crime. I mean, that's an interesting point, Joe,
because he obviously was looking around, didn't really feel that
he got hampered in any way.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I mean obviously.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And what's interesting, he went through the effort of changing
his name, he went through the effort of changing the
license plates, going you know, the you know, all these
different steps, changing the weapon. But yet he seemed to
feel comfortable to keep coming back and forth. That speaks
volumes of their lack of security.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, I'm rita. So what it's been said and proven
is when officers sit down and interrogate a criminal and
they sit there and say why did you or did
you not commit the crime? Many criminals come out and say, well,
it was the appearance of the police officer. And I'm
just saying that in general because it's going to link
up to this story with Brown University. But when police
officers look professional and they're on their game, and their
(05:09):
uniforms are squared away and the way they talk is professional,
but you know, stern, it's going to deter somebody from
committing to crime. Right, same thing if a police officer
is sloppy or they're not paying attention, they're looking at
their phone. The same can be said with this school.
Because this individual walked in. He didn't have a problem
walking through the door, he walked through the hallways. It
wasn't confronted, He didn't feel scared enough to have to
provide information. He was able to park or at least,
(05:30):
you know, let himself off close to the vicinity of
one of the entrances. Right, So the same goes here.
If security was paramount, if he looked around and saw, wow,
my face is going to be seen, because this gentleman
did not walk around for if it was said like
since January, he didn't walk around a mask for the
last twelve months. You know, obviously he was just walking
around like a normal human being. He obviously felt comfortable,
like you just said, doing this. You know, he wasn't
(05:52):
afraid to walk through this door or that door or
you know, a hallway. I would never do that, you
know what I mean. I'm a Laura biding the citizen,
and I would never go just walk into it, just
because you know, I'd be very, very scared. So that
was a big problem here.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Great points.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And also according to that custodian, he was sort of
lurking around looking into classrooms, even went into that particular classroom.
And you're right, I mean, what kind of a person
is roaming around so much so that the custodians seen
him multiple times, and he's obviously older than the average
college student. You would think you would have stood out
like a sore thumb, but I guess nobody cared.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And it's sad rita because no matter how old your
child is, right as you know, your child could be
forty years old, there is gonna be a baby boy
or baby girl. Right nobody should have to worry when
their child goes to school once again, at an early age
or a college age. They should know that they're completely safe,
that there's no issues whatsoever, that they're reassured during all
these orientations that hey, your child gets left off here,
(06:50):
we're going to treat them like one of our own,
you know. And listen, they we're not saying you're putting
cameras in bathrooms or you know, certain locations, that's not
what we're saying. But at access points where the rich
person can walk. There should absolutely be video surveillance in
every part of that school, you know, and that will
save and the time of investigators down the road. Also,
(07:10):
you know, it upsets me because in this day and age,
we're so used to having your phone right right in
your hand and you click a button and you get
whatever you want, you google it, you know you yeah, Siri.
That's the problem that's hindering law enforcement nowadays is everyone
still thinks that, Wow, the officer should know it's only
an hour into the case and should be solved. They
should know where's the forensics. It doesn't work that way,
So right off the bat, everyone's going to have a
(07:31):
bed taste in their mouth. Or look, look as if
you're watching a you know, a a police officer show
when they solve it in thirty minutes in one episode.
And you know, yes, smaller police departments they're not used
to investigating high profile incidents like the NYPD or LAPD
or Chicago. But you also just can't release everything you
(07:51):
know to be able to tip off the criminal as well.
So from a law enforcement point of view, you know,
I'm not going to sit here and bash the police
department and say, well, you know they didn't solve it
fast enough. Yes, done things better? Yeah, absolutely. But you
know when you hear them come out and say or
individuals say well they didn't do enough or they didn't
do this or that, you know, I'm not saying cut
them slack for not dealing with this stuff. You know,
on the average, But at the same time, you cannot
(08:12):
release every single piece of information while you're conducting this
investigation either.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Absolutely, and if you have an idea who the suspect is,
you don't want to tip them off. It seems like
in this case they didn't, which is why they put
the video out. You know, you know, it's amazing, Joe
is Also it seems like a lot of the video
that came out was from ring cameras, from neighbors. I mean,
it seemed like the best pieces of information came from
a ring camera, came from eyewitnesses.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean, it's really quite extraordinary and.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
A homeless guy, which we'll get to in a moment,
but what do you make of the fact that it
was almost ring cameras that seem to have some of
the best footage, and you couple that with what happened
with Tyler Robinson that's the Charlie kirkshooter. And obviously there
was some good ring camera footage there too, but they
had some great surveillance footage where you could see him
going up the stairs doing this.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I mean like one place had.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
A limb, didn't have a limp in another it seemed
like they're right away. They had the pictures so much
so that the parents said, oh, that's my son. They
recognized Tyler Robinson, and I got him to turn himself in.
Imagine if they had had much better in this case,
especially if it was someone who was casing the university
as frequently as this guy was and a former student.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you're one hundred tent right. And even with the
New Yorkity Police Department and police farms locally, ring cameras
aid in so many investigations. You know, we think, well,
I'm gonn get a ring camera because I want to
know if someone's going to steal my package or who's
at my front door. But you don't realize that you
can be helping someone else, a family that you've never met,
just by someone walking across your you know, front pathway
(09:46):
or something along the lines of that. It helps police
departments everywhere on a daily basis. Investigators, detectives rely on
that information because you would think, all right, it's going
into twenty twenty six. New York City must have cameras everywhere.
Do you know how many times officers go and check
and be like, how the hell is there not a
camera here? You know, and that's why it's important with
the community policing side to go to all these business establishments,
(10:09):
local meetings, people that live in neighborshihood and say hey,
you know, please please consider putting this up. You know,
if I was in politics RATA, I'd be putting rebates
out left and right for people to do this because
it helps and investigations when things like this go terribly wrong.
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One thing too, is that in this area there in
Rhode Island, they apparently set up a whole new system.
That was one of the things that chief of police said, Oh,
we set up a whole brand new system. And yet
they were trying to get people centralized so that they
could watch it in real time and so universities could
plug into it, the police department could see it in
(10:46):
real time and react quicker or have much better obviously visuals.
They didn't sign up for a Brown university, so it
seems like there was just a lot of lackluster effort,
if any, by this university. They had like a system
right there at the tip of the iceberg. Apparently there's
a whole bunch of technology associated with that in real
(11:06):
time sort of problem solving, and yet they didn't follow
up with it, and I remember the chief of police said, yeah,
you know, we were going to wait for universities. We
hadn't heard from them yet. They kind of hadn't gotten
around to it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Well, this is why police departments everywhere need to be proactive,
not just with putting handcuffs on people, but going out
there in the streets and letting people know the importance
of what technology can do and how it helps in
law enforcement. You know, we cannot continue to slip and
cost people their lives. This is the problem now now Rita,
with which really bothers me. Even with this university, they
(11:40):
didn't realize by not thinking that security was paramount, it
cost people their lives now, not just with the individuals
that literally passed on, but there's people that are going
to be seriously injured that are going to affect the
rest of their lives to the day they die, you know,
I mean they have to live this way. So being
sloppy trying to save a couple bucks, you know, having
this liberal mentality that know, we're not going to cooperate
(12:02):
with the police or this stuff will never happen here.
It genuinely is affecting people's lives and that mentality needs
to end.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
How much do you think that there will be some
lawsuits coming up? I mean it seems like parents and
those who lost loved ones, in particular students like you
said that are in the classroom that are going to
be traumatized for life. Also, you would think that they're
going to say, here's a lot of maybe recklessness or negligence.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
No, there's definitely going to be lawsuits, and you can't
blame the families, but it's not going to bring back
their loved ones. You just hope that they correct the
situation better than if they did it before, so that
this doesn't happen ever again. But really hope this isn't
just for Brown University. You hope that universities and schools
everywhere wake up. You know, I have a very close
tie to Uvaldi, you know the Euvalde school shooting where
(12:48):
I actually met the father of one of the little
boys that went to school and was killed that day.
You know, how do we not have security and security
parameters in our schools to where we let our kids
go to somewhere thinking that they're going to come home
at two thirty three o'clock in the afternoon and you've
got to get a phone call that a tragedy like
this happens. There's no excuse for it. You know, those
(13:09):
days of making excuses or saying you don't have the
money or whatever. It's gone. You know, you can't bring
back someone's life, and you really have to sit down
and say, how do we fix this? What are we lacking?
Let's walk around the campus, Let's walk around the classrooms.
Let's see, you know, where the fence may be open.
You know, do we have to put somebody, you know,
a school teacher or faculty member or security member at
(13:29):
the front gates that may be at the ter somebody
and we have you know, security measures coming in and
seeing who the individuals are. But no one thinks about
this stuff until something bad happens.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And a case in point, by the way, I think
so much about Uvaldi. It must have been so powerful
to be there with that father and to hear just
heartbreaking of course too. Wow, Joe, you know, as we're
talking to about this case, this custodian comes forward right
and says that he saw this guy multiple times, that
(14:01):
he thought he was suspicious, he thought something wasn't right.
He obviously had a good intuition and he went apparently
to it's a security vendor on campus. It was like
an outside vendor that's there handling the security, and they said, oh,
we don't really handle that. That's not our job. I mean,
so I guess it was nobody's job.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It was someone kicking the can. I would open up
an investigation right away, and that custodian, you know, if
he is a legitimate about what he's saying, and that
is the individual that taking missus heinous crime, you know,
I would have my guy sit down with him NonStop
from beginning to end and get a detailed timeline of
what happened. Who did he speak to? And then I
speak to a person that he supposedly spoke to. Why
(14:41):
didn't you pass this along? You know? And I'd commit
a whole investigation to who messed up, and someone would
be held accountable because once again people kick the can.
They think, not me, it won't happen in this small town.
And now we see the you know what happens at
the end of the day where going into the holiday season,
families aren't gonna be able to celebrate with their loved ones.
(15:02):
It's inexcusable. You know, the sloppiness needs to end, that
people need to be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What do you make also of this homeless guy too,
because it seems like the custodian and the homeless guys
appear to be some of the real heroes in this case,
and the homeless guy was essentially living either there in
the building or in a dorm. What was a homeless
guy living on a college property? Who I think he
(15:27):
was a former student and he's the one who turns
out to say, hey, I saw that guy that day.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It turned out to be him who was in that
video that was released, Joe. I mean, that's a wild
part of this too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
What either did they know a homeless guy was living
I guess on college campus or not on college campus.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Either way, it's pretty troubling.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, absolutely amazing story, you know, and I know in
law enfortunately, so many people that are on the street
that you actually become friends with are the ones that
are going to help you out with investigations or you know,
god forbid, you end up wrestling with somebody one day
or giving information that you need. You know, Yeah, it's
troubling in the fact that this person was absolutely living there.
You know, is anyone in Brown University actually working and
doing what they're supposed to do. But you kind of
(16:07):
have to thank god that that person was actually around
to be able to lead this investigation and help out
and confirm certain things. So yes, you know, it's a
little bit of a give and take with this situation,
but you know, some of the some of the best
information you get from the people from the streets, and
thank goodness that somebody was there to understand, to see
and actually remember and be cognizant to be able to
give some good, credible information to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, you were just saying, I guess that's happened in
a number of times where he seemed to have a
really good reflection.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think he made the make of the car.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
He said it was like, you know, a silver, the
whole deal, and that it had X amount of license
plate that it was from X state. That license plate
changed again too, from the you know, the guy seemed
to be very crafty, the killer. But it is pretty impressive,
right what he did. And then let's also talk about
what the suspect did. I mean, my goodness, you know,
change his name, change the weaponry, change the license plates.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It seemed like he did a lot of pre planning.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We obsessed meate with situations like this, and the big
stories were sere across the nation. Is where is the family?
You know, you're telling me that you didn't see some
kind of change that kind of made you scared or wonder, hey,
is my loved one going to go out there and
do something crazy? Where the friends or the wives or
the husbands. You know, there's no way that nobody sees
(17:20):
the change. And because of not taking that step to
go and get them help or sit down and at
least have the police, you know, check the person out.
This is a problem that we're seeing over and over
and over again. But to put that much time and
effort right almost hyper focus in this situation. Obviously, this
man planned this out in his head over and over again.
(17:41):
He knew where he was going, He knew, you know,
that he was going to have to disguise himself in
his vehicle, right, he had the you know, storage unit
and all this stuff. You know, it was pre planned.
So where were the people around him?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Was there social media in this case? You know, was
there someone he confided in?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Where the land you know, what the landlord see, i'd
go and you know during the search corn of the home,
you know, which they obviously did. I shouldn't say what
happened here, but we can't wait till it's too late.
It's almost like free to people afraid to open their
mouth nowadays. But the problem is is more bad can
happen from it. So we have to almost enlighten people
and empower people to say, do not be afraid. Worst
(18:21):
case scenario, it's nothing. Best case scenario is you prevented
a lot of bad from happening.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, great point.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
People need to come forward because it's not like somebody
just snaps and then goes out and plans this and suddenly,
over a course of several days, goes and kills at
two different scenes.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, what do you make of the potential motive Joe,
because it seems like we don't know he didn't leave
a manifesto from what we've heard, but we've heard that
from friends that potentially he resented Brown, that he was
smarter than Brown and felt like Brown didn't you know,
didn't appreciate that he dropped out after a certain amount
(19:00):
of time. And I don't know the professor I'm just
surmising maybe he resented him because he did really well.
They went to school together, as we know in Portugal,
and the professor at MIT became a huge success and
this other guy, by all accounts did not. Is there
a sense at all do you think could potentially be
leading that way? And how do you delve into motive,
(19:22):
especially after the fact, because he's obviously he took his
own life according to authorities.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, it's very hard. You don't come from a law
enforcements point of view, because you want to sit down
and have the person tell you themselves, because you don't
want to come out and start putting words into this
person's mouth, almost like the Luigi Mangioni, you know, just
off the wall, to be able to put this story
in your head and make somebody the villain and then
be brave enough to go out there and carry out
this crazy act in your head where it takes somebody
(19:48):
or multiple people's lives, you know, so you hope that
they're able to tell the story. You know, you don't
want to put a false narrative out there if it
never comes out of their mouth, you know, to be
able to say what a motive is unless it's black
and white. But it crazy because even me in the beginning,
I'm like, I don't know if these two situations are
tied together. It was coming out before it was officially done.
When they said it, I was like, wow, I'm like,
that's something, you know, because what they say rita something
(20:10):
within like fifty miles of each other and things like that,
and there's so many crimes that happen in between that
mileage that have nothing to do with one another. And
for that to happen once again, this was planned out,
you know, and whatever this gentleman put in his head
pushed him to the limit. And it never makes it
right no matter what it is. You know, we know
the world is a cold and very difficult place, but
(20:32):
that doesn't ever allow somebody to go out there and
think that they could take somebody's life.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's just off the wall, it is, and it's twisted
logic regardless. I hope we get more answers, at least
for the families, and I hope that there will be
changes at Brown University and so many other universities, as
you so aptly point out, need to follow the queue
of making some big mistakes because it could happen in
a number of these campuses. Everybody be sure to subscribe
(20:57):
and share it to this powerful podcast. Joe Paratrees, who
is the founder of Blue Lives Matter NYC. You're terrific,
and thank you so much for your insight, and thank
you for all your great years of service to Joe.
You're one of the best.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Thank you, Rita, Thank you so much, Doublass and everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I'll be back soon with another great addition of protecting America.
And of course you can catch me every weeknight ten
pm to midnight on the legendary w ABC Radio. This
is Rita Cosby and thanks for all you do to
protect America.
The Red Apple Media Podcast Network presents This is Protecting America.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now. Here's Emmy winning journalist Rita Cosby. Welcome to another
edition of Protecting America. I'm Rita Cosby. Many major security
lapses have been revealed after the horrible Brown University shooting,
and now many more details are coming out about the
(00:31):
killer who opened fire on that university classroom and then
soon afterwards killed a renowned MIT professor.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well. Joining us now to discuss this and so much
more is Joe and Paratrees. He is the founder of
Blue Lives Matter NYC. Joe, It's great to have you here, Rita.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Happy holidays, Mary Christmas. Thank you very very much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thank you you too.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
What do you think were some of the biggest mistakes
made by Brown University in this case?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Listen, we're in twenty twenty five, going into twenty twenty six,
and with the university as much money as they have
that's been said, security was absolutely a fault of theirs,
between the cameras, between not having enough armed guards, between
having accessibility, you know, and as it just came out,
you know, this custodian that supposedly saw somebody canvassing for
(01:25):
several months. You know, how does that person and other
people potentially get into a building. You know, if it's said,
how are they not confronted that their information taken a
trespass notice handed to them? You know that this is
a lot of this, in my personal opinion, has to
do at the university dropping the ball.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Lots of big mistakes. And let's start from sort of
the first one. You brought up, the cameras. How could
there not be cameras in a major university and especially
that particular building, Joe was pretty close to the residential area.
If anything, that's an important one to make sure there's
cameras in.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, and then you know at schools across the nation,
even little for little kids going to school, there should
be an eye opener that the liberal mentality needs to
stop and that we need to look out for all people,
no matter what their beliefs are, religions. We can go
on and on and on. Safety needs to be paramit
for our kids, no matter if they're elementary school or
going to college. The games of not wanting to work
(02:20):
with the police officers or hiding information need to be
over with because, as we saw here, lives are changed
for forever and some are lost. So you know, schools
all across this nation must get on their game, whether
it's consulting with the professionals or sitting down with local police,
need to understand the severity of having cameras and locking
doors and magnetic doors where only you can be access
(02:43):
whether it's a key card or a code or a fingerprint.
You know, these schools across the nation needs to get updated,
and they need to get updated. Now.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How much do you think it was sort of DEI
or civil Liberties group saying oh, you don't want that
much of an interference, or was it just lazy because
in this particular case, the president of the Brown University
kept saying, well, you know, it's an older building. We
didn't necessarily have it there, We had it in all
these She seemed to be making every excuse in the book.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
The problem is with schools all across this nation, and
being in law enforcement for twenty years, I saw firsthand
how schools do not want to worry or think about
the safety of the kids or cooperating or working alongside
of police departments across this nation. There are so many
investigations that happen daily where investigations can go so much
smoother if schools would just cooperate and see the bigger
(03:31):
picture of the safety of their children. But unfortunately they don't.
And this is not uncommon. Unfortunately, here we have a
high profile situation where it came out where we're starting
to see this. But I hate to say it, but
the fact is that schools all across this nation have
not really worked like they should with police departments with
security measures, and unfortunately we see what happens here at
(03:52):
Brown University. And I'm not saying that something like this
can wholeheartedly be prevented, but it could have absolutely been
harder for someone to gain access or maybe even have
been deterred if he was stopped, you know, earlier on.
If he was in fact the gentleman casing that location,
walking through hallways looking into classrooms. No one spoke to him,
obviously enough for him to return time and time again.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, that's a great point, because he felt comfortable enough
to keep going, and then he obviously felt comfortable enough
to carry out his crime. I mean, that's an interesting point, Joe,
because he obviously was looking around, didn't really feel that
he got hampered in any way.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I mean obviously.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And what's interesting, he went through the effort of changing
his name, he went through the effort of changing the
license plates, going you know, the you know, all these
different steps, changing the weapon. But yet he seemed to
feel comfortable to keep coming back and forth. That speaks
volumes of their lack of security.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, I'm rita. So what it's been said and proven
is when officers sit down and interrogate a criminal and
they sit there and say why did you or did
you not commit the crime? Many criminals come out and say, well,
it was the appearance of the police officer. And I'm
just saying that in general because it's going to link
up to this story with Brown University. But when police
officers look professional and they're on their game, and their
(05:09):
uniforms are squared away and the way they talk is professional,
but you know, stern, it's going to deter somebody from
committing to crime. Right, same thing if a police officer
is sloppy or they're not paying attention, they're looking at
their phone. The same can be said with this school.
Because this individual walked in. He didn't have a problem
walking through the door, he walked through the hallways. It
wasn't confronted, He didn't feel scared enough to have to
provide information. He was able to park or at least,
(05:30):
you know, let himself off close to the vicinity of
one of the entrances. Right, So the same goes here.
If security was paramount, if he looked around and saw, wow,
my face is going to be seen, because this gentleman
did not walk around for if it was said like
since January, he didn't walk around a mask for the
last twelve months. You know, obviously he was just walking
around like a normal human being. He obviously felt comfortable,
like you just said, doing this. You know, he wasn't
(05:52):
afraid to walk through this door or that door or
you know, a hallway. I would never do that, you
know what I mean. I'm a Laura biding the citizen,
and I would never go just walk into it, just
because you know, I'd be very, very scared. So that
was a big problem here.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Great points.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And also according to that custodian, he was sort of
lurking around looking into classrooms, even went into that particular classroom.
And you're right, I mean, what kind of a person
is roaming around so much so that the custodians seen
him multiple times, and he's obviously older than the average
college student. You would think you would have stood out
like a sore thumb, but I guess nobody cared.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And it's sad rita because no matter how old your
child is, right as you know, your child could be
forty years old, there is gonna be a baby boy
or baby girl. Right nobody should have to worry when
their child goes to school once again, at an early age
or a college age. They should know that they're completely safe,
that there's no issues whatsoever, that they're reassured during all
these orientations that hey, your child gets left off here,
(06:50):
we're going to treat them like one of our own,
you know. And listen, they we're not saying you're putting
cameras in bathrooms or you know, certain locations, that's not
what we're saying. But at access points where the rich
person can walk. There should absolutely be video surveillance in
every part of that school, you know, and that will
save and the time of investigators down the road. Also,
(07:10):
you know, it upsets me because in this day and age,
we're so used to having your phone right right in
your hand and you click a button and you get
whatever you want, you google it, you know you yeah, Siri.
That's the problem that's hindering law enforcement nowadays is everyone
still thinks that, Wow, the officer should know it's only
an hour into the case and should be solved. They
should know where's the forensics. It doesn't work that way,
So right off the bat, everyone's going to have a
(07:31):
bed taste in their mouth. Or look, look as if
you're watching a you know, a a police officer show
when they solve it in thirty minutes in one episode.
And you know, yes, smaller police departments they're not used
to investigating high profile incidents like the NYPD or LAPD
or Chicago. But you also just can't release everything you
(07:51):
know to be able to tip off the criminal as well.
So from a law enforcement point of view, you know,
I'm not going to sit here and bash the police
department and say, well, you know they didn't solve it
fast enough. Yes, done things better? Yeah, absolutely. But you
know when you hear them come out and say or
individuals say well they didn't do enough or they didn't
do this or that, you know, I'm not saying cut
them slack for not dealing with this stuff. You know,
on the average, But at the same time, you cannot
(08:12):
release every single piece of information while you're conducting this
investigation either.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Absolutely, and if you have an idea who the suspect is,
you don't want to tip them off. It seems like
in this case they didn't, which is why they put
the video out. You know, you know, it's amazing, Joe
is Also it seems like a lot of the video
that came out was from ring cameras, from neighbors. I mean,
it seemed like the best pieces of information came from
a ring camera, came from eyewitnesses.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean, it's really quite extraordinary and.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
A homeless guy, which we'll get to in a moment,
but what do you make of the fact that it
was almost ring cameras that seem to have some of
the best footage, and you couple that with what happened
with Tyler Robinson that's the Charlie kirkshooter. And obviously there
was some good ring camera footage there too, but they
had some great surveillance footage where you could see him
going up the stairs doing this.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I mean like one place had.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
A limb, didn't have a limp in another it seemed
like they're right away. They had the pictures so much
so that the parents said, oh, that's my son. They
recognized Tyler Robinson, and I got him to turn himself in.
Imagine if they had had much better in this case,
especially if it was someone who was casing the university
as frequently as this guy was and a former student.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you're one hundred tent right. And even with the
New Yorkity Police Department and police farms locally, ring cameras
aid in so many investigations. You know, we think, well,
I'm gonn get a ring camera because I want to
know if someone's going to steal my package or who's
at my front door. But you don't realize that you
can be helping someone else, a family that you've never met,
just by someone walking across your you know, front pathway
(09:46):
or something along the lines of that. It helps police
departments everywhere on a daily basis. Investigators, detectives rely on
that information because you would think, all right, it's going
into twenty twenty six. New York City must have cameras everywhere.
Do you know how many times officers go and check
and be like, how the hell is there not a
camera here? You know, and that's why it's important with
the community policing side to go to all these business establishments,
(10:09):
local meetings, people that live in neighborshihood and say hey,
you know, please please consider putting this up. You know,
if I was in politics RATA, I'd be putting rebates
out left and right for people to do this because
it helps and investigations when things like this go terribly wrong.
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One thing too, is that in this area there in
Rhode Island, they apparently set up a whole new system.
That was one of the things that chief of police said, Oh,
we set up a whole brand new system. And yet
they were trying to get people centralized so that they
could watch it in real time and so universities could
plug into it, the police department could see it in
(10:46):
real time and react quicker or have much better obviously visuals.
They didn't sign up for a Brown university, so it
seems like there was just a lot of lackluster effort,
if any, by this university. They had like a system
right there at the tip of the iceberg. Apparently there's
a whole bunch of technology associated with that in real
(11:06):
time sort of problem solving, and yet they didn't follow
up with it, and I remember the chief of police said, yeah,
you know, we were going to wait for universities. We
hadn't heard from them yet. They kind of hadn't gotten
around to it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Well, this is why police departments everywhere need to be proactive,
not just with putting handcuffs on people, but going out
there in the streets and letting people know the importance
of what technology can do and how it helps in
law enforcement. You know, we cannot continue to slip and
cost people their lives. This is the problem now now Rita,
with which really bothers me. Even with this university, they
(11:40):
didn't realize by not thinking that security was paramount, it
cost people their lives now, not just with the individuals
that literally passed on, but there's people that are going
to be seriously injured that are going to affect the
rest of their lives to the day they die, you know,
I mean they have to live this way. So being
sloppy trying to save a couple bucks, you know, having
this liberal mentality that know, we're not going to cooperate
(12:02):
with the police or this stuff will never happen here.
It genuinely is affecting people's lives and that mentality needs
to end.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
How much do you think that there will be some
lawsuits coming up? I mean it seems like parents and
those who lost loved ones, in particular students like you
said that are in the classroom that are going to
be traumatized for life. Also, you would think that they're
going to say, here's a lot of maybe recklessness or negligence.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
No, there's definitely going to be lawsuits, and you can't
blame the families, but it's not going to bring back
their loved ones. You just hope that they correct the
situation better than if they did it before, so that
this doesn't happen ever again. But really hope this isn't
just for Brown University. You hope that universities and schools
everywhere wake up. You know, I have a very close
tie to Uvaldi, you know the Euvalde school shooting where
(12:48):
I actually met the father of one of the little
boys that went to school and was killed that day.
You know, how do we not have security and security
parameters in our schools to where we let our kids
go to somewhere thinking that they're going to come home
at two thirty three o'clock in the afternoon and you've
got to get a phone call that a tragedy like
this happens. There's no excuse for it. You know, those
(13:09):
days of making excuses or saying you don't have the
money or whatever. It's gone. You know, you can't bring
back someone's life, and you really have to sit down
and say, how do we fix this? What are we lacking?
Let's walk around the campus, Let's walk around the classrooms.
Let's see, you know, where the fence may be open.
You know, do we have to put somebody, you know,
a school teacher or faculty member or security member at
(13:29):
the front gates that may be at the ter somebody
and we have you know, security measures coming in and
seeing who the individuals are. But no one thinks about
this stuff until something bad happens.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And a case in point, by the way, I think
so much about Uvaldi. It must have been so powerful
to be there with that father and to hear just
heartbreaking of course too. Wow, Joe, you know, as we're
talking to about this case, this custodian comes forward right
and says that he saw this guy multiple times, that
(14:01):
he thought he was suspicious, he thought something wasn't right.
He obviously had a good intuition and he went apparently
to it's a security vendor on campus. It was like
an outside vendor that's there handling the security, and they said, oh,
we don't really handle that. That's not our job. I mean,
so I guess it was nobody's job.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It was someone kicking the can. I would open up
an investigation right away, and that custodian, you know, if
he is a legitimate about what he's saying, and that
is the individual that taking missus heinous crime, you know,
I would have my guy sit down with him NonStop
from beginning to end and get a detailed timeline of
what happened. Who did he speak to? And then I
speak to a person that he supposedly spoke to. Why
(14:41):
didn't you pass this along? You know? And I'd commit
a whole investigation to who messed up, and someone would
be held accountable because once again people kick the can.
They think, not me, it won't happen in this small town.
And now we see the you know what happens at
the end of the day where going into the holiday season,
families aren't gonna be able to celebrate with their loved ones.
(15:02):
It's inexcusable. You know, the sloppiness needs to end, that
people need to be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What do you make also of this homeless guy too,
because it seems like the custodian and the homeless guys
appear to be some of the real heroes in this case,
and the homeless guy was essentially living either there in
the building or in a dorm. What was a homeless
guy living on a college property? Who I think he
(15:27):
was a former student and he's the one who turns
out to say, hey, I saw that guy that day.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It turned out to be him who was in that
video that was released, Joe. I mean, that's a wild
part of this too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
What either did they know a homeless guy was living
I guess on college campus or not on college campus.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Either way, it's pretty troubling.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, absolutely amazing story, you know, and I know in
law enfortunately, so many people that are on the street
that you actually become friends with are the ones that
are going to help you out with investigations or you know,
god forbid, you end up wrestling with somebody one day
or giving information that you need. You know, Yeah, it's
troubling in the fact that this person was absolutely living there.
You know, is anyone in Brown University actually working and
doing what they're supposed to do. But you kind of
(16:07):
have to thank god that that person was actually around
to be able to lead this investigation and help out
and confirm certain things. So yes, you know, it's a
little bit of a give and take with this situation,
but you know, some of the some of the best
information you get from the people from the streets, and
thank goodness that somebody was there to understand, to see
and actually remember and be cognizant to be able to
give some good, credible information to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, you were just saying, I guess that's happened in
a number of times where he seemed to have a
really good reflection.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think he made the make of the car.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
He said it was like, you know, a silver, the
whole deal, and that it had X amount of license
plate that it was from X state. That license plate
changed again too, from the you know, the guy seemed
to be very crafty, the killer. But it is pretty impressive,
right what he did. And then let's also talk about
what the suspect did. I mean, my goodness, you know,
change his name, change the weaponry, change the license plates.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It seemed like he did a lot of pre planning.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We obsessed meate with situations like this, and the big
stories were sere across the nation. Is where is the family?
You know, you're telling me that you didn't see some
kind of change that kind of made you scared or wonder, hey,
is my loved one going to go out there and
do something crazy? Where the friends or the wives or
the husbands. You know, there's no way that nobody sees
(17:20):
the change. And because of not taking that step to
go and get them help or sit down and at
least have the police, you know, check the person out.
This is a problem that we're seeing over and over
and over again. But to put that much time and
effort right almost hyper focus in this situation. Obviously, this
man planned this out in his head over and over again.
(17:41):
He knew where he was going, He knew, you know,
that he was going to have to disguise himself in
his vehicle, right, he had the you know, storage unit
and all this stuff. You know, it was pre planned.
So where were the people around him?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Was there social media in this case? You know, was
there someone he confided in?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Where the land you know, what the landlord see, i'd
go and you know during the search corn of the home,
you know, which they obviously did. I shouldn't say what
happened here, but we can't wait till it's too late.
It's almost like free to people afraid to open their
mouth nowadays. But the problem is is more bad can
happen from it. So we have to almost enlighten people
and empower people to say, do not be afraid. Worst
(18:21):
case scenario, it's nothing. Best case scenario is you prevented
a lot of bad from happening.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, great point.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
People need to come forward because it's not like somebody
just snaps and then goes out and plans this and suddenly,
over a course of several days, goes and kills at
two different scenes.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, what do you make of the potential motive Joe,
because it seems like we don't know he didn't leave
a manifesto from what we've heard, but we've heard that
from friends that potentially he resented Brown, that he was
smarter than Brown and felt like Brown didn't you know,
didn't appreciate that he dropped out after a certain amount
(19:00):
of time. And I don't know the professor I'm just
surmising maybe he resented him because he did really well.
They went to school together, as we know in Portugal,
and the professor at MIT became a huge success and
this other guy, by all accounts did not. Is there
a sense at all do you think could potentially be
leading that way? And how do you delve into motive,
(19:22):
especially after the fact, because he's obviously he took his
own life according to authorities.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, it's very hard. You don't come from a law
enforcements point of view, because you want to sit down
and have the person tell you themselves, because you don't
want to come out and start putting words into this
person's mouth, almost like the Luigi Mangioni, you know, just
off the wall, to be able to put this story
in your head and make somebody the villain and then
be brave enough to go out there and carry out
this crazy act in your head where it takes somebody
(19:48):
or multiple people's lives, you know, so you hope that
they're able to tell the story. You know, you don't
want to put a false narrative out there if it
never comes out of their mouth, you know, to be
able to say what a motive is unless it's black
and white. But it crazy because even me in the beginning,
I'm like, I don't know if these two situations are
tied together. It was coming out before it was officially done.
When they said it, I was like, wow, I'm like,
that's something, you know, because what they say rita something
(20:10):
within like fifty miles of each other and things like that,
and there's so many crimes that happen in between that
mileage that have nothing to do with one another. And
for that to happen once again, this was planned out,
you know, and whatever this gentleman put in his head
pushed him to the limit. And it never makes it
right no matter what it is. You know, we know
the world is a cold and very difficult place, but
(20:32):
that doesn't ever allow somebody to go out there and
think that they could take somebody's life.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's just off the wall, it is, and it's twisted
logic regardless. I hope we get more answers, at least
for the families, and I hope that there will be
changes at Brown University and so many other universities, as
you so aptly point out, need to follow the queue
of making some big mistakes because it could happen in
a number of these campuses. Everybody be sure to subscribe
(20:57):
and share it to this powerful podcast. Joe Paratrees, who
is the founder of Blue Lives Matter NYC. You're terrific,
and thank you so much for your insight, and thank
you for all your great years of service to Joe.
You're one of the best.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Thank you, Rita, Thank you so much, Doublass and everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I'll be back soon with another great addition of protecting America.
And of course you can catch me every weeknight ten
pm to midnight on the legendary w ABC Radio. This
is Rita Cosby and thanks for all you do to
protect America.
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