The KINKY BOOTS (2005) Review

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Welcome to Queer Next, the podcast that (00:05):
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puts the Yee Hall in y'all means hall.
I'm your host, Beck,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: and I'm your host. (00:11):
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Dash.
Welcome to today's episode.
the windchill is nine degrees here.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh, that's just stupid. (00:16):
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I'm sorry.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (00:19):
They don't have like spring and fall don't happen here.
It's just winter and summer,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: It's, uh, 62 here. (00:26):
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I'm looking, feels like 60, but ithas rained and rained and rained
and rained and rained and rained.
S smore.
I've gotten dredged on campustwice in the last week.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (00:39):
Again, what happened to your new umbrella?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (00:41):
so I bought an umbrella and I took it to
campus and I had not used it before.
And so I came out of Central Halland because there's a little overhang
there, like there's part of the,the porch there you could stand on.
And I try.
I tried for like five minutes toget this stupid umbrella to work.
Two of my students tried to make it work.
None of us got it to work.
It was, the way that it works is you'resupposed to push the button and it pops
out and then it comes out in two steps.

(01:03):
And the second step that keptflipping the outer edge of it
out and it would not stay open.
Like there was nothing there.
There was no mechanismto keep the thing open.
So I gave up on that on the first oneand the second time it happened was
yesterday and it had rained all morning.
And then when I got tocampus it was beautiful out.
Beautiful.
And I thought, you know, I'm onlygonna be in here for 45 minutes.

(01:26):
'cause I knew it was a short dayand I was like, it'll be fine.
So I left my umbrella in the carand walked out and it was pour in
the rain, so I deserved that one.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Yeah, it doesn't rain here. (01:34):
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I don't know.
It's weird.
Like if it does too,everybody's basement floods.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Well, that sucks. (01:40):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:41):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: have a basement? (01:41):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:42):
yeah, I do.
It's more of a dungeon.
It's damp and has very low ceilings,and I don't know, somebody, like I said,
like there was a kid living down there,but I, before I bought this house,
but I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
That's where the laundry room is,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (02:00):
yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: and it has these secret rooms. (02:01):
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Like there's one room that it isjust dirt, it's like a cellar.
It's just dirt walls and floor.
And I'm like, what is, somebody decidedthis needed to be here, but why?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: they do canning? (02:13):
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Maybe.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (02:15):
there's no shelves, but that's what I thought.
I was like, this could have been,or just really weird storage.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Maybe that's where they put the bodies. (02:22):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (02:24):
Have you, there's a new version of the burbs on tv.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I started watching it and then (02:28):
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I forgot I was watching it.
And I haven't seen morethan like four episodes.
Yeah.
I do that all the time,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Well, how many episodes did you (02:34):
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beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: like four. (02:36):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: What were your thoughts? (02:37):
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Was it

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I liked it. (02:39):
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I thought I liked the, the actress thatwas playing, uh, the, the main character.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (02:45):
Kiki

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (02:45):
Yeah.
I like her.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (02:47):
she's so funny.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (02:48):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: She has a podcast. (02:48):
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The, she was in a movie with SZA thatI, I really think, I don't know if it
flew under the radar is the right word,because maybe, maybe like majority
culture didn't watch it, but you know,black people loved it or whatever.
'cause it was about, like, it wasmore about like black experience
in a certain kind of neighborhood.
It was called one of them days.

(03:10):
I loved it.
It really reminded me of those ninetiesmovies like Friday, you know, kind
of just a day in the life of what,what happens to a person with like an
identity or a set of responsibilitiesassociated to their context.
but it was so funny 'cause itwas these two women and their
chemistry was incredible.

(03:30):
I thought like, oh, okay, ssalike another like singer or
rapper is gonna be an actor now.
But she was great.
She was so funny.
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: maybe we'll watch it. (03:39):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Highly recommend it. (03:40):
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Oh, that'd be great.
'cause I, I actually only saw it the onetime and it was when I was super high.
I watched a lot of stuff whileI was recover or like either
in the, the worst part of thepain or recovering from surgery.
That was really, I think good,but I barely remember it.
I just sort of rememberthe sensation of liking it.
But I also probablyliked the pills I was on.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (04:00):
Right,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Like, was this the movie or (04:01):
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beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: the ambiance, (04:03):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (04:05):
the company?
Kinky Boots.
Welcome to a kinky episode of Queer.
This is not that.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (04:17):
you know, the, the, the one thing I can
say is it was absolutely not what Iexpected whatsoever in a very good way.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: What were you, what what (04:23):
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impression did it give you on the
surface before you,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: With, the name alone. (04:28):
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I thought there was gonna be, andI knew there was a musical with it.
I thought there wasgonna be a lot more camp.
I thought it was gonna be a lotmore drag queen centered, you know,
I thought it was gonna be, uh,a lot more high key than it was.
But instead it was justa, a real story, you know?
And I, I, I, I read somethingabout it and it's based on a
true story, which is really rad.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (04:49):
Isn't

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: yeah, I thought it, I thought (04:50):
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it was, I thought it was great.
I liked it a lot.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (04:53):
Yeah.
I knew I, you know, I remembered likingit, but this, like watching it now, and it
came out, uh, 20 years ago, and this wasduring the, the time of like Hedwig and
the Angry Inch and, some, this is the sameyear, uh, broke Back Mountain came out.
We were, we were sort of putting, dippinga toe into mainstream queer movies again

(05:18):
for the first time since before the,uh, the height of the AIDS epidemic.
This time when I watched it, I wasactually really emotionally affected
by it in a, in a interesting way.
Like I wasn't 20 years ago.
I actually cried a couple times.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (05:31):
wow.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (05:32):
Just, well, because I think it's major
themes are stuff I didn't pick up on.
And there are things that arereally meaningful to me now.
Like 20 years ago, wasn't keyed intomasculinity theory like the urban rural
so the, the major themes in, in themovie were kind of, they kind of flew
over my head a little bit, so I wasthinking like, is this even a queer movie?

(05:56):
Like it's, it's got drag drag in it,but the only sexuality that's mentioned.
heterosexuality.
Did we even need, I don't even think weneeded that love story though, between

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I, yeah, I agree. (06:08):
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I agree

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (06:10):
I think that that was to app.
I think that that was an olivebranch to straight people

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (06:16):
You know, the trope, the, the trope of having,
um, a black friend that takes care ofthe problem or whatever, that solves
your problem, that's a trope many times.
Um, I think that that was put inplace here, but with the added twist
of the gay black best friend 'cause Imean, they weren't best friends, but
they, the relationship had a similarkind of, you know, they were doing
something for each other and therewas some rapport there, you know?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (06:39):
I know what you, I, 'cause I, I was
thinking of like the magical negro,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (06:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, yeah.
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (06:46):
shows up, which is VI mean, I think
that's, it is an American trope.
but I thought that same thing.
I was like, huh.
And it's not just him.
It's also Lauren.
There's the woman who saves him as well.
So I think there's queerness init and there's a queerness to
it, but I don't know if I wouldcharacterize Kinky Boots as a queer

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Yeah, I get that (07:07):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (07:08):
think it's more salient themes are capitalist
and it's masculinity, right?
Like most of the, the learning forinstance, is about masculinity,
the growth that happens in it.
Like who changes the most?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: one of the things I wrote down here (07:25):
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was, um, didn't make it overly gay,which made it more realistic, in
my opinion, just the right amount.
'Cause I think it, it is not that itshould, like we should be making media
so that it's palatable, but I thinkit is palatable to a wider audience.
And I think that will open up, if notminds, uh, at least pathways for thinking,

(07:47):
you know, like the, the bigots in themovie, you know, as they made them
and saw the, the impact of them, theyreally changed their minds about things.
Um, and I think, think that if somebodysees a, a film that has a gayness in
it and they still like the movie, thenthat opens a little door that maybe
they can like things that are gay.
Even if they aren't gay.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (08:05):
I think that's in the movie too.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (08:07):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (08:08):
a person has to be able to see themselves in something
before they'll really consider it.
As like, we are just so selfishhard for us to commit the massive
amount of effort it takes tochange our minds about something
unless we can see what's in it for

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (08:24):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (08:25):
And the character who changes the most, the
character who represents like that is Don.
I loved and I had kindof forgotten about it.
I, I loved his, the way thatLola opened things up for him.
So I guess to just do a quicksummary of like what it's about.
'cause it, it is based on a true story,which is interesting and, and I'm, it's

(08:48):
like literally a true story I thought.
Like, oh, okay, sure.
There was some like.
Uh, traditional men's shoefactory in the north that started
making shoes for drag queen.
No, it really, really did.
And there was a whole BBC special on it.
And the people, someone saw that specialand decided to make the movie out of it.
The characters are created, butit was even filmed in the factory,

(09:11):
in a factory in the north.
And there, like a lot of theextras in that scene, they
were just employees of that

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (09:17):
Oh wow.
I thought it was interesting howthe topic came up last week, how
it was a real situation when Italked about my dad having drag
queens coming into the porno shop

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (09:25):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (09:25):
my parents owned because it was the one place
to get size 13 go-go boots, you know?
And I had never thought about otherpeople having the same kind of
experience or wear those size 13 Go-Goboots came from in the first place.
So it was really interesting to see that.
I think

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (09:40):
The idea of changing your whole business model because
you saw an opportunity like that there.
There's a, an a sub theme of the movie iskind of is bravery and knowing yourself
and being willing to take a chance on

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: for sure. (09:55):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (09:56):
And so yeah, it's capitalist because
it's supply and demand, right?
Like our company is struggling,who needs something?
Like what, what is a, a nicheaudience that hasn't been catered to?
Let's cater to them.
That's the essence of capitalism.
But there's another critique in the movieof late stage capitalism specifically,

(10:16):
with the, the shitty shoes maybe we'lltalk about it when we get there, but,
of my favorite kinds of metaphor.
There.
There is a bunch of different kinds ofmetaphor, and I don't know, we're getting
really into the weeds here, listeners.
I don't know how much y'all care aboutthis, but, my two favorites kinds of
metaphor are, uh, synecdoche and metonymy.
So metonymy is when a, a bodypart or a person's physical

(10:40):
self stands for something else.
an example I use is, can Ihave your hand in marriage?
Like, you're not marrying their hand.
You're hopefully marrying all of them.
So that's autonomy.
Syn is when.
A physical item, an inanimateobject stands for something
larger, maybe even a person.

(11:01):
So the crown, when referring tothe monarchy, so the shoes or shoes
function as a syne in this, and we'retold that, I don't know if the movie
fully believes what it says where his,his father says it, you can tell a, a
lot about a person from their shoes.
We find out later that his fatherdidn't really believe in a lot of

(11:24):
things that we thought he believed in

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Right, right. (11:26):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (11:26):
one big thing.
So I don't know if hereally believed that.
I don't know if Charlie believes it,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: uh, I don't know. (11:32):
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I thought there was a line.
He said, be brave.
Decide one way or another.
Do me a favor and show up tomorrow.
Looking like your passport.
Right.
And he, he's talking to um, Simon,we'll call him 'cause that's who
he is, trying to speak to the,the, the, the male person there.
And I think, I think he was in it for themoney, which, I mean, any reason that you

(11:53):
go into diversity is a good one, I guess.
But he was definitely in it just for themoney and for the, for the job saving.
I think that he was still, as theculture makes one, sometimes a bigot.
You know, I don't think that hewas able to see the humanity.
I think he started to see the humanityin the main character, whose name

(12:13):
I can't think of at the moment.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (12:15):
Lola.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (12:15):
Lola.
He sees the humanity in Lola at theend, I think when the, when she shows
up for the fashion show in Milan.
I think that's when hefinally gets it, you know?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (12:31):
Yeah, there were a lot of moments where I didn't like

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (12:33):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: I think that that's okay. (12:34):
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I think that we're supposed to see a lotof flaws in him, that was the biggest one.
And he told us later, he tells uswhy he'd said those things to her.
And because, uh, Lauren wasconfronting him and he said, just
felt like a failure of a man.
And so he attacked Lola.
He attacked Simon.

(12:55):
He attacked both.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (12:56):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (12:56):
and that's another thing, like the movie isn't
really, it's not using what we, ourcurrent understandings of gender and
performance and identity and things.
It's, it's working with a, anolder set of, I don't even know if
definitions is a good way to put it.
An older, looser framework for talkingabout performance versus identity.

(13:18):
were very kind of intertwined.
But yeah, he just chose that moment topunish her for the most of the movie.
They do use, she, her, when referringto Lola, but at the, at the beginning
though, like Charlie and hisfather, they're not the same people.
Like Charlie doesn't sharehis dad's passion for shoes.

(13:40):
And we, like, we see himthroughout the movie.
He, he wears these truly horrible shoes.
Like they're just like scuffedup Walmart looking white shoes,
really, really ugly shoes.
So if we, if we were to believethat you can learn a lot about
a person from their shoes,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Charlie's word out. (14:00):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (14:01):
He's worn out and he doesn't have an identity yet.
Like he doesn't know who he is yet.
They're not branded.
They don't have any styleor fashion of any kind.
They're not even particularly goodat being what they are for, right?
'cause they're like, they look likea pair of knockoff basketball shoes.
He's not a basketball

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (14:17):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (14:18):
and you probably couldn't play basketball in them.
Like they're truly just not there.
We see the movie throughshoes a lot of times.
One question I had was, so like he,his father dies, Charlie's father dies
and he has to take over the factory.
And then very soon after thathe learns that the factory
is struggling financially.
he goes to London to try to sell thefactory to somebody or to sell the shoes.

(14:41):
He had a big backlog of shoesand the guy was like, I don't
wanna buy your nice shoes.
want to buy these shitty shoes sothat people have to come back and
buy more of them very quickly.
That is an ex, that's an explicitreference to Terry Pratchett's theory.
He had this, this theory, Sam Vimes'.

(15:02):
Boots theory of SocioeconomicUnfairness, I think.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Is it the one where you buy (15:07):
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the $10 ones every year and the$51 ones last for a long time?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (15:12):
yep.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (15:13):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (15:14):
Yeah.
And he, and he, what?
He's in the context of the, thiswas in the Disc World series.
I forget which book it was.
Basically it was, he was illustratingthat it, it's expensive to be
poor, that it is more expensive tobe poor than it is to to be rich.
Because a poor person can afford a $10pair of shoes that wears out every year.

(15:34):
Whereas a rich person can afforda $50 pair of shoes that lasts for
many years, and over time poverty taxbasically adds up to being more money.
So that, like, it, that scene rightthere, like it seemed so explicit to me
that that's what they were referencing.
And so we did bring money into thispretty, like, at the beginning because

(15:58):
it's a factory, it's a business, but it's,I think, I think they wanted to put a
separation in there between craftsmanshipand mass production, specifically
in a, in a capitalist context.
Every, you know, they need to makemoney, but they want to produce a
good product the same time, which isnot how late stage capitalism works.

(16:18):
, Like I'm thinking of quite a few productslike Carhartt, for instance, the, the
farm, the, uh, brands that make likeclothing for people who work in trades.
They used to be pretty crazyexpensive, but you had to buy,
you only bought the thing once.
You know,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Sounds like my bra. (16:37):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (16:38):
brass are a big

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: So I've been using, I've been (16:39):
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wearing the same kind of bra 'causeI have a particular size chest.
Right.
So I buy my bras at Lane Bryant'cause they're always nice and,
you know, well-made and whatever.
They're expensive.
And I've been wearing the same brafrom them, I would say 20 years.
I've been wearing the same bra from them.
And we ordered, they hada sale the other day.
They were $20 a piece.
So I ordered two and, and Shenaordered one and we got 'em here.

(17:01):
And they are half thequality of what I'm used to.
They're thinner, they're lighter.
They're, they're, the, the,the material isn't as good.
They're smaller.
Like overall, all of it.
I was not impressed whatsoever.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (17:13):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Same way with her underwear. (17:14):
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dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (17:15):
say it.
I'm sure it is affected.
I mean, and it's, it'snot just clothing either.
Like cars are similar, like the,it's better business to sell a shitty
product that is the hideous truth ofcapitalism, late stage capitalism at,
in, its in, its like most insidiousform that we currently find ourselves.
And so they're out of step with, with.

(17:37):
That this price shoe company is, is notin step with, this new economy, this,
this latest inter iteration of capitalism.
The fact that this is from 20 yearsago is that tracks, you know, like
that is about when I remember noticingeverything was getting so much shittier.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (17:59):
I feel like a lot of food is doing that too.
Food isn't the same as it used to be.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: what do they shrink? (18:03):
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Inflammation.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Yeah, it's the, uh, when I wrote (18:05):
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about it in college, they called itthe, uh, disappearing cereal box.
You know, it says, or the, theincredible she shrinking box.
It'll, you know, the,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (18:15):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: you'll have a 12 ounce box, and (18:16):
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then the next time around, it's a10 ounce box, and then it's an eight
ounce box, all for the same price.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (18:23):
Yeah.
And I think that that is a big, thatcritique is stays in this movie like this.
I was surprised that there was asmuch discussion about the industry
itself and it like economicsin the movie, again, there's as
much that as there is queerness.
So when the, when we, the movieopens on Lola's face, little, little

(18:46):
Baby Simon, maybe 10 years old is

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (18:49):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (18:49):
he looks like he is, and he's sitting
on a pier or dock or something.
I don't know what he's outside of it.
First I thought it wasa beauty store, but.
sitting there and he'sbored and he's cold.
So it's like that, that universal kidexperience of being left in the car
while, while the grownups go do something.
And he pulls out a pair of like stiletto,red stiletto heels from the bag next

(19:10):
to him and starts playing around.
Really adorable scene.
But immediately, my question is,whose fucking shoes were those?
Why were they there?
Because he was there with his dad.
Whose shoes were they?
Were they his, because they fit him?
I don't understand.
Like, because in the, the next thing,like his dad catches him and is mad
at him, but who bought in the shoes?

(19:31):
Are those his?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (19:32):
Well, it also could be a memory or a fantasy.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (19:35):
Oh my God, I didn't think about that.
Like in his mind, he'sjust mashing up a bunch of

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (19:40):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (19:41):
that kind of capture the essence.
Yeah, totally.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: what I think of some of the bad (19:44):
undefined
things that happened when I was young.
Some of it gets conflated and, and mixedaround and, you know, that kind of thing.
You get older, it gets harderto remember things and sometimes
things you wished happened get mixedup with things that did happen.
And maybe he f wished he did havethe freedom to do that, but his
dad yelled at him too much anyway,you know, even without the shoes.

(20:05):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (20:05):
It's like a tableau of a lot of themes coming together
and I, I felt that way watching it too.
I was like, ugh.
I remember the moments of like, when Iwas home alone, or not alone, but when,
you know, mom and dad were gone and Icould, you know, put, put my, uh, chest
binding on and just go out and live insidemy head be, be who I felt like I was.

(20:32):
Then that like, even if you don't getcaught, you know that it's gonna come to
an end because somebody's gonna come home.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (20:38):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (20:38):
know, you like, you have to go back.
So like, there was, there was anemotional undertow for me in this
very first, I was like, this was,the credits are still rolling.
And the scene ends in a kindof shame and, and panic because
he's caught and he feels bad.
That's all we get to know aboutthe specifics of Lola's childhood.
, And it's enough for us to gleanhow she relates to it, how, like,

(21:01):
how those pieces still affect her
but we're not spending aton of time in that trauma.
Which I was grateful for.
This was during a time when youdidn't get to see a queer movie unless
somebody was being absolutely punished.
Not, especially, not a mainstream one.
So I was like, yeah, she's gotqueer trauma slash baggage, but

(21:23):
it's not, it doesn't define her.
That's not the characterwe're here to spend time with.
In some ways I kind of feel badfor wanting that because I'm
like, yes, every, the things thatthat affect a person negatively
are, are important and valid too.
But like, I don't wanna see that.
That's something the only thing Iwant to see on screen all the time.

(21:46):
But we see, we, we sort of contrast thatwith Charlie and his father and it's
very pastoral and, and bucolic where theylive, they're like the Midlands, which is.
I, I don't, it's like the, the Midwestsuburbs of England, like very beautiful
and green and stuff like that.

(22:06):
It's a kind of, it's a contrastwith Lola's urban surroundings.
So that's one of the, this sort of,it's not an overt theme, but like this
idea of the country versus the city.
And Charlie's, introductionto Charlie as a kid is very,
is very different than Lola's.
It's very, like, his father is sobenevolent and knowledgeable and kind,

(22:29):
and Charlie's experience, Charlie'schildhood is so idyllic and then he
grows up and he's still not happy.
Like, he, he also doesn'tfit in his surroundings.
Do you think the movie's trying toequate those two things like Charlie's.
Charlie's experience of being a, notfitting in with his home and Lola's

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (22:47):
I mean, I, I'm sure it should, would probably be
an idea in the director's mind at least.
Um.
Maybe if they want them tosee the same kind of humanity.
Right?
Because a lot of times when you're notqueer especially, and you see a queer
character, you have a special or a,a kind of, uh, a schema, I guess, uh,
of the way that you think about them.
And it's not always positive.

(23:08):
So to see both of them strugglingin the same way as children,
I think that's pretty good.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (23:13):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: 'cause we don't, in straight films, (23:14):
undefined
we don't acknowledge the pain ofqueerness very often unless, like
you said, they're being obliterated.
Right.
There's not a lot of queer joy.
There's not a lot of queer love,there's not a lot of queer, you
know, good emotions whatsoever.
So yeah, I think probably long way,long-winded way of saying yes, I agree.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (23:33):
Well, and because there is at least one
big similarity, and it's that the,the pressures that they're both
struggling under are patriarchal.
It's masculinity that is oppressingboth of these boys in different ways.
So for, for little baby Simon, it is inhis gender presentation specifically,
he wants to wear women's clothing.

(23:55):
we don't even know ifhe identifies as gay.
We don't know anythingabout Hi, how, how he dates.
We just know that identifies assomeone who is not masculine.
And then for Charlie, I don't know, he,I mean, it's definitely a patriarchal
pressure, but it's different.
It feels more like a kind ofoverbearing, this like his father's

(24:15):
personality and his identity as.
A cobbler with somebody who makesshoes so oppressive that Charlie
is, he's, he doesn't even, he's notgiven the freedom to find out or
to ask who he is, what his passions

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (24:30):
Right.
One thing I really thought that,um, after, after I was done with
the movie, I was sitting therethinking about it, you know?
And beyond that, I really liked it.
I thought that it really, if somebodywatched this with, you know, any
kind of openness whatsoever, it wouldmake the homophobes kind of look
at themselves in the mirror likeit did don the character, you know?
And I think that's a really.

(24:51):
Good quality for a film, right?
If you can make homophobes be like,wait, baby, that's not a good idea.
If that's anything that does,that is is a great media, right?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Are we the baddies? (25:00):
undefined
Uh, yeah.
And, and this, it was a heavylift for a movie at this time too,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (25:08):
yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (25:08):
wasn't many movies that tried to speak to both

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (25:11):
Yeah.
Oh, and you were saying that,um, I what were you saying?
The, that we didn't seemuch of Lola's life.
They do give you one little peek inthere when, when she's at her apartment
and the landlady says, are you a man?
And she's like, yes I am.
You know, she's like, that's fine.
I just wanna know how to leave the toilet.
You know?
That was such an epic, like showing thatshows you exactly how you should be.

(25:34):
It shouldn't matter.
Right.
So I loved that little brightlight in the middle of everything.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (25:39):
Well, and that's another theme of, of the whole
movie is the ways people can surprise you.
and, and the ways this is a, a tropeof British queer cinema actually.
There's couple of other movies thatare specifically about like how the
rural bumpkin northerners, Northern isredneck in British or in Britain, right?

(26:01):
If they say Northerner, that'swhat they mean is redneck.
And about how those folks can surpriseyou if you just give them a chance.
So that's, that's interesting.
They have that trope, and I can'tthink of very many tropes in where,
like, Hollywood's not making manymovies where the redneck surprises you.
But then, so Charlie meets Lola becausehe went to London to ask the dude to

(26:24):
buy some of his overstock because the,the, the big order had fallen through
and he sees, uh, her getting harassed.
A question I had, it's an uncomfortablequestion because I feel like I
know what the answer is, is wouldCharlie have helped her if he had
known that she was a drag queen?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: That's a good question. (26:40):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (26:42):
cause he white

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: yeah, based on the way that (26:43):
undefined
he reacts to her later in thefilm, I don't think he would've.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (26:47):
I wonder.
You know, and I, I, it's sointeresting that the movie
allows us to ask that question.
It allows us to be suspicious of Charlie.
not trying to make him intosome infallible person.
' Cause I, because it, it wasa, I don't, I'm sure there's a
name for this trope, but like.
He saw her outta the corner of his eye.

(27:07):
She's being harassed by these dudesand he just, you know, runs over
there and tries to protect her.
And it's funny because she accidentallyknocks him out and stuff, but I, I
wonder if he would've tried to help.
I don't know.
Maybe.
But it's one of those, like some,I think sometimes we, all kind of
have to ask ourselves like, wouldI have done that if I had known X?

(27:31):
But then she accidentally knockshim out with her broken heel.
This is where the concept of the shoe, theproblem comes up her heels are not strong
enough to hold her up because she is,Lola is played by Chiwetel Ejio Gio for,
who a martial artist and not a small man.
Very muscular.
His performance as Lolais interesting too, like.

(27:53):
I, I'm contrasting it in my mind with likethe, all the straight guys in two Wong Fu.
Right.
The way that they like really campit up, like Patrick Stu, Patrick
Stewart, Patrick Swayze in particular.
Like his, his way of like, he literallyjust glides through that movie.
And then John Zamo is swishingWesley Snipes is like a,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Slinking. (28:15):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (28:16):
doing full.
Yeah, like Banja girl, you know, likedrag queen from the hood type of thing.
Like he, he definitely, these folkswatched Paris is burning and the
behind the scenes too of that, likethey did work with real drag queens.
They learned a lot about queerculture to do that movie.
So, but you know, this one is verymuch not like, he's just kind of soft.

(28:37):
He's not mincing.
He is making jokes and he's quippy.
There are times when he made me cackle

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (28:42):
Yeah,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (28:42):
wasn't doing like, he wasn't doing jokes about Dixon
balls or assholes or, you know, itwas, he was doing observational comedy

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: please God tell me I've not (28:51):
undefined
inspired something burgundy.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (28:56):
the first time he went, this is
like chew, chill in the air.
I keeled over laughing 'cause it'slike, do you say in that moment
where, where you've misunderstood andthere's a hell of a fight going on and
you're like, I need to make my exit.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: One of my favorites was (29:12):
undefined
when he said about his dad.
He said he wouldn't even talk tome even when he got to lung cancer.
So it's ironic, reallyfags got him in the end.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (29:20):
the facts got him in the, and in those
moments, Joel Edgerton's character,Joel Edgerton as Charlie is the
straight man in more than one way.
And his performance, was I, I loved inthat scene too, because the way he played
that was like, he laughed and then herealized maybe it wasn't okay to laugh.
then he checked and looked to see if theywere laughing, and then he laughed again.

(29:42):
Like I have felt that so many times andI, and just in like a millisecond, all
that played out on his face that I waslike, the performances are really in this.
And Nick Frost as Don, he was so good.
So good.
When people talk about hisu like his filmography, they

(30:03):
never talk about kinky boots.
I think it's some of his best work.
Like he's hilarious.
Yeah.
He's predominantly a comedian guy, buthe's done a couple of dramatic things.
And this is, this was not aneasy gig to play the character
that experiences the most

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (30:18):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: And but the idea that he can't (30:23):
undefined
tell that that's a drag queen.
What was that?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: What is it? (30:28):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (30:29):
The, that when Lola first goes to the, to the
you call it, factory, to pick upthe first boots that Charlie has

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Ah, yeah. (30:35):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (30:37):
And, and Don is like flirting with

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Hey, baby. (30:39):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (30:40):
yeah, uh,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (30:42):
Oh,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (30:43):
I was like, do you really not know or is this Don real?
Like slowly learning?
He's a chaser,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (30:49):
well.
Some people don't even thinkabout the, the, the possibility
that queer people exist.
So, you know, even if she looks a littleManish, which I didn't think she did, I
thought, I thought they did a great jobtransforming her into a feminine version.
But yeah, the, that was great.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (31:04):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I lived out at the end. (31:05):
undefined
Um, everybody was at the bar.
Everybody was at the bar.
You know the Hulk factory shows up.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (31:11):
boots.
Did you notice like Mr.
Mr.
Biggie over there had the boots

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: No, I didn't notice that. (31:15):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (31:16):
Not Don, but the guy sitting next
to him, the really big guy.
So it, when Lola does go to the bar to notthe bar to the factory, she, she knew that
it was be, she knew Charlie didn't wanther to, like, she clocked him immediately
when they were still in London.
She was like, yeah, this is, so therewas a scene where like, she touched

(31:37):
him and he flinched and she waslike, as if, don't flatter yourself.
They, they really set that stageof sh this is her every day.
She deals with this shit every day.
It's nothing new underthe sun for her that.
You know, a, a cis straight boy isdisgusted by her existence and she puts

(31:59):
together that he doesn't want her tocome to the factory to pick up the boots.
'cause he's like, I'll bring, I'llbring 'em to you, I'll bring 'em to you.
So

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (32:04):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (32:05):
shows up and she's like, don't ever try to get me
to do something 'cause I'm gonna do it.
But like, not everybody hates her on site.
Actually, most people are either neutralor really respect her immediately.
And a lot of it, a lot of thewomen who worked at the factory
are immediately drawn to her.
Like they find her funny and impressive.
They like that.
She stands up to Charlie when shestarts describing style basically.

(32:28):
You know, she was like, after shesays, I can't believe I inspired
something, that something burgundy.
She starts to start screaming

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (32:36):
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: And she was like. (32:36):
undefined
You're selling sex.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (32:40):
sex.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (32:41):
And he goes, but they're comfy.
And she said, sex isn't comfy.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Thank goodness. (32:45):
undefined
I thought it was just
there were a few times I belly laughed.
There were some really good lines.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (32:53):
Yeah.
the, the part, so like, she, shedoesn't s want to stay though
because it's painful to her.
Like this experience that she has Donis flirting with her and she goes down
and sits in his lap and she's like,if you can't even get women to wear
these, how do you, how do you expectto get a blokes like me to wear them?
Don is like.
It was, it was, even though I, I knewit was coming, it was still upsetting

(33:17):
because I am, I walk around with thisfear that if people knew I was trans,
that they would be disgusted by me orthat people already are disgusted by me.
And I, I think, I don't know ifit's, I don't think that that's only
trans people that feel that way.
I think that that's kind ofa, a minoritized experience,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh yeah, I certainly feel that way (33:37):
undefined
Being a less than feminine woman.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (33:40):
yeah.
And so after that, when, when she'sstill there, she's drawing the,
the boot Charlie, we hear Don inthe background downstairs, like
retching and screaming and, and.
Like, that's the, that's thebackground of that scene of
her whole basically time there.
So she doesn't wanna stay because itfeels, it doesn't feel good to be there.

(34:03):
And Charlie's trying to convince her tostay and he finally does wear her down to
stay until the, we find out that there'slike a, a fashion show for shoes in Milan.
And I don't even knowif this is a real thing.
I'm so out of the, the, theloop on fashion stuff like
the, i is, is this real?
Hang on, let me,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Sounds like a time for for (34:21):
undefined
a dash to go to Google.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (34:25):
Milan runway shoe highlights from Milan Fashion Week.
Oh, it was just a few weeks ago.
Okay.
So yeah, it's a real thing.
But I, I don't like, dothey always go to it?
Are they, in the past have thesepeople been like, just marching their
brogues down the catwalk in Milan?
Like, that just sounds weird to me.

(34:45):
But for whatever reason, this year,they're gonna take shoes to the
shoe show, the, the shoe carnival,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: The shoe store. (34:52):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (34:54):
and he is like, I need your help.
I can't do this.
And he flatters her a little bit, but he'salso telling the truth about the fact.
He says, in one in the time it tookyou to draw a shoe, you have, you've
impacted and said more about what thiswhat this means than, than I ever will.
So he makes a case that he needs her todo this, so she decides to stay and that.

(35:20):
The next, she has a room with this, Idon't catch her name, this older lady
that you mentioned earlier, the firstday she goes to the factory to work.
We see her like, and weknow what she's doing.
She's looking at all of her outfits,she's laid out all of her dresses,
and she's like, trying to decide.
And I knew instantly what she wastrying to decide, like, do I dress
as a woman or do I dress as a man?
remember every fucking Thanksgivinghaving that like, conversation with

(35:43):
myself, like, which gender do Ipresent to go be around these people?
And so she shows up at the factorywearing a really awful men's sweater.
She

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: The turtleneck. (35:54):
undefined
Yeah.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (35:56):
oh, it wasn't just 'cause Chiwetel Ejiofor
is objectively attractive, right?
He's a, he's a very pretty man,they, it was a combination of
his performance and like justthat sweater, like he looked bad.
Simon and he did it.
did he, why did he choose men's clothes?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Well, does it, does the film ever (36:14):
undefined
explicitly tell us that Lola is trans?
Because they, she refers toherself as a drag queen very often.
Right?
So

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (36:25):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (36:25):
maybe she, maybe the drag just is drag, you
know, maybe she was coming into work,so she thought that she should dress
in a particular way that would match.
I, I don't know.
Maybe she just wanted to get real.
I don't know.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (36:38):
I think she wanted to put people at ease.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: That could be it too. (36:42):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Because the performance, like the (36:43):
undefined
way that he was performing thismoment was extreme discomfort.
was really uncomfortable inthat outfit or in that context.
He would've preferred tobe in a dress, I think.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (36:56):
Yeah
I only gather that thecharacter's name was Mrs.
Cobb, by the way.
I looked it up.
That because Mrs.
Cobb, that situation,um, everything's on IMDB.
That, that scene I think was reallypivotal because it, it shows that in
his real life, when he's tucked away,when he's not in view of anyone, in
his most quiet moment, he is a woman.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (37:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
I think that at the time we weren'thaving this conversations about what
is trans versus, do you remember in TuFu they actually said like, you know, a
transvestite is, is this a drag queen?
Is this a transsexual?
Is this like,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: And you're a boy in a dress. (37:35):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (37:37):
Yeah.
And she, like, Lola doesit a little bit too.
She's like, I'm not a transvestitebecause transvestites are ugly.
Essentially I'm a dragqueen because I'm fabulous.
So I don't know.
It's, I don't think it's something thatwe can really decode with how that, like
into, I don't think we can make it makesense with how we think about identity and
gender performance and presentation now.

(37:59):
I just don't know that there's, there'shope of bringing Lola into that context.
I wonder what the musical does, right?
Because they're still performing this.
Surely they would dosomething to update it.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: You not seen the musical? (38:09):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (38:10):
mm-hmm.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Yeah, me neither. (38:11):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (38:12):
But ultimately it doesn't help if, if she did show up
dressed as a man in the hopes that Domand and his buddies would be nicer to her.
It does not do

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (38:23):
No,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (38:24):
In a way it's kind of worse because masculinity is
something that Don cares a lot about.
And she was, she was doing femininitybefore, but now she's doing
masculinity and she's not doingit particularly well, you know?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: that's a good point. (38:38):
undefined
I.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (38:44):
Because Don, that's all he talks a lot about.
Like, well, women love me becauseof this, and the moment where
things start to change for him.
He's like doing things to bully her.
Like I couldn't actually tell whatthey wrote on the sign something.
It said something about queer shoes.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I don't remember. (39:02):
undefined
I can see if it's on the thing though.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (39:04):
But that's when Lola goes over and she's like, Hey, what
do you think would make me more of a man?
Basically, like you seem to carea lot about me and my manness.
And she's like, I'll youwrite down something that's
gonna make me more of a man.
I'll write something that down, somethingthat's gonna make you more of a man.
And he's like, no, because he,I don't think he wants to enter

(39:27):
into, a context where she hasany say over what masculinity is.
But then the thing that changeshis mind is the girls, I love this.
I, I wrote it down.
They're like, do you, is is Don a man?
And another girl says, I don't know.
He dresses like one, which isjust like the perfect way to

(39:47):
describe performing a gender.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I found that quote. (39:49):
undefined
Let me read it to you.
Lola.
Lauren says, Lola, you'regonna have to excuse Charlie.
We don't have manytransvestites in North Hampton.
Lola says, I'm not merelya transvestite sweetheart.
I'm also a drag queen.
It's a simple equation.
A drag queen puts on a frock.
Looks like a Kylie, atransvestite, puts on a frock.
Looks like Boris Yeltsinin lipstick there.
I said it.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Which I, I still don't actually (40:10):
undefined
would know what that means.
Oh, I think I know.
Well, I think, well, the difference,I guess would be the, the performance
aspect, like literal performance,like a drag queen does it for money,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (40:23):
Do we know anything about the actor's sexuality?
I assume him in a heteronormativeworld to be a straight man,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (40:29):
I do as well.
Let me look and see if he's got aspouse listed on IMDB, which doesn't
tell the full story, but he doesn't.
Hmm.
Personal life, literallynothing about dating life

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: so he might be where. (40:42):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (40:43):
Could be.
That's a common thread among.
People, how old is he?
Oh, he's, uh, a little bit older than you.
Yeah.
Like Hollywood men prior to, you know, genZ or, uh, millennial and stuff like that.
Like it's, a lot of them were just bbachelors, although some people just
don't want their personal life out

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (41:05):
Right,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (41:05):
But the thing that Dom writes down,
for Lola to prove her masculinity,out to be arm wrestling, which is,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (41:13):
right.
I liked his winningstreak from 2000 to 2005.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (41:18):
this was a moment where I started to,
there's a, a theorist that I like.
Uh, called, uh, Mikhail Bakhtin, whohas this concept of the carnival esque
and a kind of parody he calls travesty.
And I started to get some of that at,uh, from this movie, this watch, like,

(41:40):
okay, what, what is a masculinity contest?
Like, there's nothing moreon the nose, but also kind
of stupid than arm wrestling.
So the, the pivotal moment for Don,and I think one for Lola happens here
because up until this point, Lola, wehaven't really seen her display any
compassion or empathy for any of these.

(42:02):
Northerners, right.
That she, I wouldn't say that she like,goes out of her way to look down on
them, but she's certainly not treatingthem as as sophisticated as her when
it comes to something like style.
Right.
She's got a lot of, disdain

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: not classism. (42:16):
undefined
It's what is gay sex like,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (42:20):
tower.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: but with gay, a gay twist, gay (42:20):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (42:24):
Like

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: presumptuous, (42:25):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (42:27):
I don't, ivory tower is more like, uh,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: academic (42:30):
undefined
rainbow tower.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (42:33):
Yeah.
But well in, well, and what we're tryingto, to get at here is, uh, a kind of.
of people who think that their senseof taste and style is the best, right?
They're obviously elite in that way.
Elitism maybe.
Think like Miranda Priestlyand Devil Wears Prada.
She is, she is a taste maker, soshe's elitist about her own views and

(42:59):
automatically assumes them to be correctand superior to anybody else's views.
And so like, there's a little bitof that with Lola, even though these
people are literally craftsmen, right?
Like they make shoot, they do somethingthat hardly anybody else would be
able to do, but they're not stylists.
So, so this moment though is so tense.

(43:20):
Did you know how it was gonna go

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (43:22):
No
um,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (43:23):
wrestle?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I thought, you know, I thought (43:24):
undefined
that he would beat her, right?
But I didn't think she would let him win.
So

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (43:29):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I thought just because he was such a (43:30):
undefined
good arm wrestler, I didn't think that,you know, he was the champion for five
years running, but she whoops him.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (43:36):
Well, we know something about Lola that he doesn't know,
which is that she's incredibly strongbecause her father made her a boxer.
was a, like a, in a, in a hypermasculine kind of context, which
is common for gender traders.
I guess we could just say like anybodywho, who later becomes uh, trans or
something like that, it's actually commonfor them to be hyper performing whatever

(44:02):
gender they were assigned at birth.
I've heard a lot of trans women inparticular say like, they were trying to
convince themselves, like they're tryingto like, get rid of all femininity.
But yeah, she was, she wasa boxer, an amateur boxer.
So she's very strong.
during this arm wrestlingbout she starts to win, right?

(44:23):
She's actually really close totaking him all the way down.
This is another place where there's nota lot of moments in this movie where
cinema, like, where cinematography and,and technical details are that relevant.
But this is one of them because theperformances of the two of them during
this contest, the way the camera isframing each of their faces and cutting
between them, see these, these twocharacter arcs play out one where

(44:48):
Lola is realizing that she can beathim, that she's stronger than him, and
then he's realizing the same thing.
And the way sort of begins torealize that it's worth more to her.
To let him save face and win theservice of getting, getting closer
to him, like maybe breaking him downand getting somewhere where she can

(45:11):
actually, like, I don't know, gainsome ground with him and then him like
realizing like, she's gonna beat me.
She's stronger than me.
What does this mean about me?
Like, he has this whole crisisof masculinity and his role, his
image, like, and the way his facelike shows us that and then all
of a sudden she just lets him win.

(45:31):
I was impressed that he cameover and talked to her afterwards

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (45:35):
Yeah,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (45:35):
and because he specifically asked her why she did it.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I don't remember what she said. (45:39):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (45:40):
She said, I don't remember exactly, but she said
like, I wouldn't want you to have towalk into uh, factory and not, not
be respected or something like that.
And because she said, and then she said,uh, I don't, I wouldn't want anybody
else to know what that feels like.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (45:56):
Gotcha.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (45:57):
So like, she understood and what she was
talking about was like fitting into acontext and being, being somebody who
doesn't have the benefit of the doubt.
Like she, in that one littleinteraction, she made him understand.
What it's like to be an outsider.
What's at risk for people who don'thave the benefit of the doubt, who
don't have certain social privileges.

(46:19):
He was forced to imagine what it would belike to lose cultural collateral was all
to do with his job as a cobbler in thisfactory and as an arm wrestling champion.
That's not a lot of stufflosing one of those things.
I mean, that would beprobably huge for him.
So she decided not to take it awaybecause she understands what that's like.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Have I ever told you my arm (46:42):
undefined
wrestling teaching story?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (46:44):
Oh, I think you somebody, yeah, it
was like a scavenger hunt or

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (46:48):
Yeah.
And somebody ran in.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: and they needed to. (46:50):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (46:50):
Yeah.
And they wanted to arm wrestle, so I armwrestled him, but she thought, I think
she thought I was gonna let her win.
Hell no.
I brought honor to my classroom that day.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (47:00):
I don't think I would be very good at arm wrestling.
It's been a long time since I've done it

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (47:03):
Yeah.
No, I'm weak as everything.
I'm a, I'm a baby.
I have an infant strength.
Yeah, but walking, we're gonna startwalking this summer, so that's very good.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (47:12):
nice,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Maybe I'll be stronger. (47:13):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: you start lifting weights. (47:15):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: You know, I did that when I was (47:16):
undefined
working out with our friend Clha.
She and I worked out, uh, quite a bitfor a couple of years and she had me
weight lifting and I really enjoyed it.
It's just picking up heavy shit, but.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (47:26):
I.
I almost splurged on a set of weights, butI was just like, that's too much money.
But, you know, I can'tdo pushups right now.
Maybe let's take a break to hearfrom this week's sponsor before we
finish the story, because it's aboutto change and get very dramatic.
So, oh shit.
I was gonna do a bitand I forgot about it.
I was gonna pretend that the personthat Don's character was based

(47:49):
on started a consulting firm for,workplace sensitivity trainings.
But I also knew that you wouldn't believeme, so, This week's episode of Queer
Next is sponsored by Load Bearing Group'snew industrial sensitivity training.
Professional job site runs on standardmeasurements and predictable materials.
It's about knowing how muchtorque a bolt can handle and

(48:11):
whether the steel is to spec.
Lately though, a lot of crewsare introducing some substandard
materials into the workforce.
Specifically a set of social habitsthey inherited from a grandfather who
was convinced electricity was a fad.
These old school assumptions area structural defect of the team.
They create friction that slows downproduction and makes the shift feel
twice as long as it needs to be.

(48:33):
When a senior foreman starts acting likea panicked mule, just because the new
hire has quote city hair unquote, ora different way of existing, they have
officially become a maintenance liability.
Load-bearing group is a specialized firmthat speaks the language of the floor.
We facilitate a workshopcalled the Tolerance Check.
This is a straightforward retooling forcrews with more work to do than time to

(48:53):
argue about who gets to lock themselves inwhich bathroom for their lunch break cry.
start with a component inspection.
You take those first impressions, theones making you act like a territorial
dog in the bed of a pickup, and youput them in the diagnostic rack.
Judging a coworker based on a 1974spec sheet identifies a legacy
part causing a system error.

(49:14):
We show you how to pull thatbias out, toss it in the
scrap heap where it belongs.
Our iron rule is simple.
A person's worth is measured in torque,reliability, and their ability to hold
the other end of the heavy lifting.
If they hit the specs, they haveearned their spot in the bay.
Period.
you're wrong about a coworkeris an elite maneuver.
Sure it takes some muscle to holda grudge or bias, but it takes real

(49:36):
strength to recalibrate your perspective.
Solidarity is a personaland professional survival
requirement, not an HR suggestion.
So check out the tolerance, checkfrom the load-bearing group.
Change your mind about someone.
It's the most productive thingyou can do with boots on.
Have you done any of those?
The workplace, like in a group,not the, you know, the ones that at

(49:57):
universities, they make us just like watch

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh yeah, yeah. (49:59):
undefined
I've done plenty of those.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (50:01):
But there's another version where like a consulting
firm comes in and you do like uh, aday or meet a week or, or more of like
intensive learning training things.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: No, I haven't. (50:12):
undefined
I haven't done that.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (50:15):
They're, I mean, they're kind of neat, but
I've facilitated a few of them.
It's also like you are stuck with someof the worst people you will ever know.
There's always at least oneperson that you'll never forget

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh, you're talking about (50:25):
undefined
speaking women's studies, huh?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (50:27):
Yeah.
Well, after Don makes his, hestarts to turn a new leaf, right?
He's no longer disgusted by Lola.
He sort of respects her values.
Begins to value like heras a thought leader in this

(50:47):
company designing the shoes.
it's coming up on timefor the Milan thing.
It's getting close.
I forget.
There's this scene where he andLauren are on the phone and they're
trying to do something that costsmoney and they need like $20,000.
What was it for?
Do you remember?
like she's on the phone with somebodyand they're trying to rent something

(51:07):
and it costs a bunch of money.
It's something to do with Milan.
no way, there's not aGoogle search for this.
Either way they need something.
Maybe it was the performers

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: they, they said the travel (51:16):
undefined
and the, and the, all of that.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (51:20):
Yeah.
And he decides to like take out anothermortgage on his house to pay for this.
And he did not run it right by hisfiance, which I was actually like,
that's a valid crash out on her part.
Like he made a pretty significantfinancial decision without consulting her,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (51:37):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: like their relationship. (51:38):
undefined
This is one of the reasonswhy could've, we could've just
done without it, you know?
don't know what that was for, hisfirst relationship 'cause it was
just them falling, realizing theydidn't want to be married basically.
That was her entire role in this movie.
That and being the thing that caused himto feel like he should be mean to Lola.
But anyway, they have a fight.

(52:00):
Lola's there.
does this thing where she like tarturns the microphone on so that
Don can hear Charlie talk abouthow much the factory means to him,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Do you think she did that on purpose? (52:10):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (52:12):
Lola.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think it she did the firsttime, but I think because it happened
once before and it was just kind of a,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (52:20):
Oops.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (52:20):
a way that the rest of them got introduced to her.
The, like the people who worked atthe factory, but she looked at it
before she did it and she saw, sheknew Don was down there, so Yeah.
But then after I, you know, heCharlie and I forget his fiance's

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (52:36):
Lauren.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: No, Lauren is the assistant. (52:36):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (52:39):
Oh.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: She is played by Jamima Ruper. (52:40):
undefined
It's funny, I know the actress'sname, but not the character.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: looking here. (52:45):
undefined
Nicola.
Nicola.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (52:48):
Right.
Nicola?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (52:50):
I.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (52:50):
They kind of break up and Charlie is like really
sad and upset or whatever, but also, Idon't think he was that shocked, but he
Lola are like gonna go to a restaurantor something to talk about the.
At the fashion show, and she happensto be there with a guy that I think
she was cheating on him all along.

(53:12):
This was, this was the real estatedeveloper and it, but I think that
they were also, either that orthey spent enough time together
to become attracted to each other.
And we identify her through theshoes that she wanted earlier.
There's a, it was a pair of red JimmyChus that she bought, and we see them
flirting with a man's shoes under thetable same restaurant that Joel or, uh,

(53:36):
that Charlie has gone to, to meet Lola.
And he runs into this guy in the bathroom.
And so he realizes she's there and they'verun away before he comes out, but he
sees her shoes stuck in the cobblestone.
So he knew they were there andhe was really booty and mad.
And when Lola gets there.

(53:56):
That's when he decides to lash out at her.
I, I wonder if he believed some ofthe things he was said to her, or
was he just like repeating the biasesthat we all have, you know, because
we all have access to those things.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: What do you mean? (54:09):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (54:10):
Sort of like, if you say you get in a fight
with a, a sibling or a romantic partneror something like that, and you say
something you didn't mean because,just because you wanted to hurt them.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (54:21):
Okay.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Was he doing that? (54:22):
undefined
Was he just doing, tryingto hurt her or was he saying
things that he secretly thought?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: That's a good question. (54:28):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (54:29):
I don't know if I really know the answer.
Like I feel like it could be either or.
That's kind of what's awfulfor Lola, is that she'll never

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (54:38):
Mm-hmm.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (54:38):
you know, she could ask herself that question
and she'll, she, she'll never knowwhether he was just being hurtful or
if he actually thinks those things.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: But in the end, in the end, (54:48):
undefined
it didn't seem to matter.
She showed up for himwhen he needed it anyway.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (54:52):
Yeah.
You know, let's talk about thislike fashion week thing, because

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (54:58):
Oh, is

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (54:58):
she's gonna, she's gonna hang him out to dry.
Hmm.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: in the trivia. (55:00):
undefined
It actually said what it was called.
The shoe fair depicted.
The Schu fair depicted actually exists.
It's called the mic, A-M-I-C-A-M.
It is not situated in the center of Milan,obviously, but the, in the exhibition
complex and the outskirts of the city,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: what is it again? (55:14):
undefined
My,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: M-I-C-A-M. (55:16):
undefined
Mic cam.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (55:19):
oh, okay.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Mic cam. (55:21):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (55:22):
Interesting.
Yeah, it's, and we see flashes of it,like when we're there before they go
on, and it's just, uh, people, mostlywomen, like cis women in regular
dresses and shoes walking a catwalk.
So it looks like a regular fashionshow, but kind of like more boring, and.
Like Charlie is hiding this.

(55:44):
He's trying to hide it, which isstupid because it's gonna come out
eventually that he has been mean to Lola.
So she's probably not gonna show up.
And Lauren is so mad at him she again,like, says to him like, she kind of
implies that he is not trying very hard,he's not trying everything he can think
of, which has been that that's true.
That that was kind of like his thing.

(56:04):
he's, he's a very mediocre person,Charlie, you know, and all of
these other people keep showing upto help him and to bail him out.
He does have to do the occasionaluncomfortable thing, though.
He does rise to the occasion, which I, itis kind of interesting that he did this
because like they get to the show and.

(56:25):
Lola and her friends don't show up andhe decides he's gonna model the shoes.
And this is kind of like whatthey were, this is what you
write a this script towards.
They're like, okay, we have to get tothe walk a mile in her shoes moment.
How do we do that?
What's the most ridiculous way?
Which is the only reason the Milanfashion or shoe show thing would
even be written into this is so thatit, because it would be a spectacle.

(56:48):
He decides he's gonna model thesethings in his tidy white ease.
Why didn't he find something else to wear

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (56:54):
Right.
Well, what else would you wearwith those boots besides the skirt?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (56:58):
A skirt?
Yeah.
He didn't, he couldn't do that.
He couldn't give up the, the rest of him.
Right.
He had a, a tux, or not a tux, but asuit top and a tie and his tidy whitey
and these thigh high snake skin.
I think they were stiletto boots.
It.
I was thinking as I, as you know, Iwas watching him kind of fall, uh,
down the runway is that this is kindof the nightmare of masculinity,

(57:22):
of being humiliated in this way.
Like when they, when they talkabout fear of being laughed at, when
men talk about the fear of beinglaughed at, it's emasculating, being
laughed at is emasculating to them.
It's the worst thing they can think of.
And he like finally falls ass overtea, kettle like cheeks up in the

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (57:39):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (57:39):
Like he, this is not a flattering posses position he
falls into and people start laughing.
He's lying there.
And it's like, that's, that'swhat they're afraid of.
And again, Lola shows up and bailshim out with Oliver, her troop,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (57:52):
Right,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (57:53):
and they modeled the rest of the shoes.
I guess they, they musthave got ready on the way or

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (57:58):
right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (57:58):
were quick.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Movie magic. (58:00):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (58:01):
Yeah, they do a, a little performance and it's,
there's like 20, 25 of 'em up there.
It's pretty fun.
not like super drag like wewere talking about earlier.
This is, there wasn't a lot of whatfelt like actual drag in this movie.
Like, there were people who werecross-dressing but not, you know, there

(58:21):
wasn't any like death drops and, andagain, this is, maybe it's, that's
an American type of, well, it is.
That's American.
So I don't know what Britishdrag is even like, really, I,
I think it is more humor based.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I don't know. (58:33):
undefined
Every drag queen I've everseen has been a comedy show, so
at least in between.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (58:39):
I used to go, I used to go to drag shows.
That were just bucket boots,like lip syncing, dancing to,
to dance tracks and stuff.
So that's mostly what I've seen.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (58:51):
Gotcha.
I haven't seen a drag show.
Like the last drag show Isaw was on bgs U'S campus.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (58:56):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Yeah, that's a, (58:57):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (58:58):
the, the most, mostly I've seen student drag
shows in the past, like 10 years.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (59:01):
yeah.
I have realized that I haven't been,when, when we left Huntington, Shanna
and I and my best friend went tothe bar as a goodbye tour, right?
We went to the Stonewall anduh, I realized that has been 18
years ago, so I have not steppedfoot in a gay bar in 18 years.
That's wild to me.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: I can't remember. (59:19):
undefined
probably been around that for me.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Would you like to hear this week's (59:28):
undefined
now of Appalachian interest?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (59:31):
I was just gonna ask if you brought us

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I sure did. (59:33):
undefined
Okay.
So when I say clogs, I don't meanthe chunky shoes that you wore
to the grocery store in 2010.
I mean, the kind that make noise onpurpose, the kind that you wear when
your feet are part of the music.
This week's noun of Appalachianinterest is the humble clog
made from sturdy hardwear.
Wood clogs have been worn in manycultures for hundreds of years due
to their ability to retain warmth andprotect the foot from sharp objects.

(59:57):
Although initially worn by workers fortheir functional nature, they began to
be associated with dance and performancearound the world as those wearing them
use the soles to create rhythmic soundswhen their feet struck the ground.
As the Appalachian region was settled inthe mid 17 hundreds by Irish, Scottish,
English, and Dutch German groups, theirfolk dances began to mix together.
Over time, this blend turned intoa loose foot tapping style that

(01:00:19):
became clogging as we know it today.
Often also called flat footing.
it's usually set to lively fiddleand bluegrass music, and remains a
form of personal expression in, ina place shaped by personal freedoms.
There's something about clogging thatfeels passed down more than taught,
though there are still clogging schoolsand classes around Appalachian today.
It's like you learned it by being aroundit long enough, not by signing up for

(01:00:42):
a class, and there's always that oneperson, usually older who makes it
look way too easy, like they've beendoing it forever and forgot that it's
supposed to be hard and the shoes,well, that's why we're all here today.
The quality matters.
The look matters and the sound matters.
They're built to be heard.
That's the whole point.
You're not trying to be quiet.
You're trying to take up space withsound, Which all makes this a weirdly

(01:01:02):
perfect tie in to Kinky Boots.
Sure.
It's a different look, but the same idea.
Shoes aren't just about walkingfrom one place to another.
They're about being seen, beingheard, and doing it in a way
that feels authentically you.
What makes it connect even more isthat both are really about function.
Meeting identity clogs were built forwork and movement, but over time they
became tied to performance and culturein the same way the boots in the film

(01:01:24):
start as a practical product for a rangeof men, um, but shift into something that
represents visibility and self-expression.
In both cases, the shoe endsup carrying more meaning that
it was originally designed for.
Also, I'm just saying I wouldabsolutely watch someone try to
clog in the pair of those boots.
I don't think it would go well,but I would absolutely watch it
and that's this week's down clogs.

(01:01:45):
If you hear a banjo weeping softlyin a floor, getting beat up in
the distance, just know thatsomebody's having a good time.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:01:51):
What at the beginning, that kid, little
baby Simon was dancing in thosethose heels, I mean, kind of.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:01:58):
Do you think that was a metaphor for the
way that he was made to feel by the,the people of the, of the shoe company.
Right.
He was dancing on those heelsand somebody said, stop it.
And that's kind of what happenedto him, you know, later in life.
I think maybe that was a, a metaphor forthe, for the wider message of the film.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:02:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot about like justtrusting people to find their own
joy or to know what brings them joyand just the weight of expectations
well, can you think of anythingelse to say about Kinky Boots?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: All of my notes have been exhausted. (01:02:26):
undefined
Um,
again, I like that it ends withthe whole factory at the bar.
You know, that kinda shows theevolution of everyone, even Don.
I think that was, I think that was cool

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:02:39):
Yeah.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: because it became more, (01:02:40):
undefined
more than just the business.
It became the culture.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:02:45):
Yeah, the, the chosen family thing is a, is a theme too.
There are, there are a lot of thingsex there are some things explored
here that are very pertinent toqueer culture, but it was taken
into, uh, more like general context.
I think they, it was kind of likeexplorations of class and stuff in here

(01:03:05):
too, like, I don't know, not as explicit.
It is still, it just staysvery personal and stays on the
individual, like the small scale.
It doesn't really expand out too much.
And that's kind of cool becauseit can still signify other things.
It can still gesture to real world thingsand stay on the story of these, people.
I think that that's like a mark of asuccessful, based on a two story type of

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:03:30):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:03:30):
it actually stays with the people
that the story is based on.
Like a lot of you know, my favoritemovies, it didn't get great
ratings when it first came out.
I don't know why.
I am curious if it was about, Imean, there's a couple of like,
questions that we've had, like,uh, where did the choose come from?
Or, you know, like storylinesthat, not sure why they were there.

(01:03:51):
Maybe it was that stuff, but howmuch of it was to do with queerness?

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:03:56):
I think that's probably a big part of
it because like Two Wong Food didn'tget a lot of good coverage either.
I mean, name one good besides likerent name one film that has gotten
good coverage because it's queer.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Do you like rent? (01:04:08):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:04:09):
Well, I mean, I've seen it twice in person.
So I don't really hate it, but Iwouldn't say it's among my favorites.
I do like the Tango
Mau.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:04:18):
Like, yeah, there are things about it that I like,
like the music is good, but like there,the story itself, itself, I'm just
like, oh, I hate all these people.
I mean even, uh, I wasn'tlike Brokeback Mountain.
I think it was nominated for some awards,like some, you know, straight World
awards, like Oscars and stuff, I think.

(01:04:39):
But people still,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh, it's still a joke to this day. (01:04:41):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:04:43):
exactly.
Let me see what awards.
So the director won an award.
Won an academy.
Yeah.
It won quite a few awards and thosepeople, they were still just kind of
tortured for, you know, involved with it.
And it was the straightest of straightpeople involved in this movie too.
Like there was not a gay finger anywhere.

(01:05:04):
and even the, the, the characters,those were straight boys.
I'm sorry, like that is not a gay movie.
Brokeback Mountain is not a fucking queer

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:05:11):
Right,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:05:12):
It's, it's a straight movie with gay sex in it.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:05:14):
right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:05:15):
I love it.
I, it's, it's a reallygood movie, honestly.
Like I don't have any complaints withthe film itself, but it's like, if
it's not, for instance, I've nevertaught it in a queer cinema course.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Oh, well. (01:05:26):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:05:27):
about it.
Like it's, I would teach it ina masculinity course for sure.
I.
Because it depicts a very realthing, which is the fact that
straight men have sex with each

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:05:37):
right,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:05:38):
a lot.
Like that's who they practice with,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:05:41):
right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:05:42):
know, you, if you, we got girls going to sleep
in, what are the slumber partiesand practicing kissing each other.
Straight men practicefucking on each other.
They're not gonna admitit to you, but they do.
And they always have.
And sometimes they catch feelings forone another and it's a well-known thing.
Right?
what that movie's about.
So calling, even calling in a gaymovie is, is a kind of queer erasure.

(01:06:06):
I don't know.
You can tell I have big feelings aboutit, even though it's a great movie.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:06:10):
Right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:06:10):
But yeah, it's, back to your point, I don't know.
I mean, I don't know any, any movies thathave been what, what you would consider
queer that have had mainstream acceptance.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: because, but I'm a cheerleader. (01:06:21):
undefined
Might be the closest thing,but it's not even mainstream.
A lot of people haven't seen it.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:06:26):
You know, that's, that's indie.
And if you want to talk aboutlike, big box office releases,
maybe people liked Carol.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:06:35):
I bought that book, the, the Price of Salt.
I bought that, I bought that book.
I haven't gotten to readit yet, maybe this summer.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:06:40):
Yeah.
Patty Highsmith.
I,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:06:42):
Mm.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: All right, let's Google this. (01:06:42):
undefined
This will be the last random thingI Google, how do I phrase this?
Highest grossing queer films.
Broke Back Mountain.
Come on.
All right.
What else?
Maybe there's.
Philadelphia.
Okay, so

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: But that's, I mean, that's (01:06:59):
undefined
not a good representation.
That's somebody dying ofaids, you know what I mean?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: it's Right, right. (01:07:04):
undefined
This is, this is queer punishment.
And it's not even like the,the barrier gay trope, right?
Like, first of all, a gay personis, dies a horrible death.
And I've only read downto number three now.
And that's, that's all.
We're three for three.
For four.
Oh my God.
So Brokeback Mountain,Philadelphia Milk Boys Don't cry.

(01:07:28):
I don't know.
This fifth one, it's

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:07:30):
Hm,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Is this international? (01:07:32):
undefined
I don't know who any of these actors

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: what's it called? (01:07:34):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:07:35):
making love

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I haven't heard of that one. (01:07:37):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:07:38):
I, me neither.
Very random.
Uh, after that is PriscillaQueen of the Desert.
Okay.
There's another onehere that I don't know.
Gods and Monsters

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: I've never heard of that one either. (01:07:49):
undefined

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:07:50):
Capote.
The wedding Banquet Transamerica.
I didn't like that one.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:07:55):
I remember seeing it in the film, in the,

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Victoria, you've never seen what (01:07:56):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:07:59):
I I saw the the Trans America, what's it called?
Trans America?

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Transamerica with Felicity (01:08:03):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024: Yeah, I saw that in the theater. (01:08:04):
undefined
I remember not liking it either.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: I, I didn't like it. (01:08:07):
undefined
Victoria Victor.
Victoria is a very good movie.
The hours I couldn't get through it.
Oh, the bird cage.

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:08:16):
Okay.
That's one

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Nobody dies in that one. (01:08:17):
undefined

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:08:18):
right.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:08:19):
A single man.
Oh, and we're back to dying, cruising.
Okay.
You lost me.
You lost me.
Clearly there is a, queercinema crisis in Hollywood.
Hollywood.
The gayest place on

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:08:31):
Right.
Everybody got a dream in Hollywood.
That was the name of my car whenI was, uh, when I graduated high
school, I had a, a bright ass purple.
It was a, it was a deep purple, butit was a very purple, um, Hyundai
accent and uh, its name was Hollywood.
Everybody got a dream in Hollywood.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024: Well, then the thing about (01:08:49):
undefined
Hollywood is that it is made by.
Queer people and, and people of colorand non non-Americans, literally
immigrants like that is what Hollywoodis, but it's made for white America.
That's kind of the, the, thewhole trick of Hollywood.
that's Kinky Boots.
It reminded me of this other moviethat is a British movie, kind of

(01:09:12):
similar, has similar themes of countrypeople, country people, and then
like, uh, London Queers called Pride.
And it's about union organizing in theminors towns of like Wales, so random.
Also based on a true story,

beck-guest39_37_04-18-2026_134024 (01:09:30):
Ah,
very cool.

dash_36_04-18-2026_124024 (01:09:31):
well.
I guess we could call this, call.
This done.
Thanks for hanging out with us everybody.
I have been high on medicine,just hoping for the best.
I'll find out how wedid when I'm editing it.
Uh, hopefully you've got warmweather, weather wherever you are.
Uh, maybe I'll get some eventuallyand, you know, be good out there.

(01:09:52):
Say hi to your mom and them.

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