October 9, 2025 • 45 mins
In this week’s Real Life Runners podcast, I’m joined by Kelly Lyons — a nutrition and eating psychology coach who helps women heal their relationship with food and their bodies. Kelly opens up about her personal journey through binge eating, which began back in high school, and how she ultimately broke free by uncovering the root causes and learning to rewire her brain.
This conversation is honest, compassionate, and full of practical wisdom. We talk about the emotional patterns that often drive binge eating, why willpower alone isn’t the answer, and how to start building a sense of trust with your body again. Kelly and I also dive into the dangers of diet culture, how to reconnect with your true hunger and fullness cues, and the role that movement and self-compassion play in recovery.
Whether you’ve struggled with binge eating yourself, wrestled with food guilt, or just want to create a more peaceful relationship with eating and exercise — this episode will give you hope, understanding, and tools to start making real, lasting change.
Kelly Lyons is a certified nutrition and eating psychology coach who helps women overcome binge eating and create a healthy, peaceful relationship with food and their bodies. Drawing from her own journey of recovery, Kelly combines science-based nutrition with mindset and emotional awareness to guide her clients toward lasting change. Her compassionate, practical approach empowers women to break free from diet culture, rebuild trust with their bodies, and find joy in both food and movement.
If you want to connect with her, you can find her at the links below!
https://kellylyonscoaching.com/
https://www.instagram.com/kellylyonscoaching/
🎧 Tune in to learn how to break the cycle, rebuild trust with your body, and find freedom in food and movement again.
00:28 Kelly's Background and Approach to Nutrition
01:27 Personal Struggles with Binge Eating
04:53 The Cycle of Dieting and Binge Eating
09:01 Understanding the Brain's Role in Binge Eating
12:21 Emotional and Restriction-Driven Eating
14:36 The Impact of Diet Culture and Exercise
17:44 Coping with Emotions and Boredom
22:55 App to Control Socia
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
this is the Real Life RunnersPodcast, episode number 430.
(00:04):
Today I get to sit down withKelly Lyons and we talk about a
topic that a lot of people.
Struggle with, but not a lot ofpeople talk about, and that is
binge eating.
Especially as runners, we areoften very conscious and try to
be healthy.
And for a lot of people thatleads to restriction, which
unfortunately can lead a lot ofrunners into the cycle of
(00:26):
restricting and binge eating.
So today I talk to Kelly, who isa.
An expert in this area, and shebreaks down the three hidden
patterns that can be the rootcauses of binge eating and how
to overcome them.
So if this is ever somethingthat you have struggled with,
stay tuned.
Angie (01:06):
Welcome to the podcast today.
I am so excited to have KellyLyons here with me.
Hello, Kelly.
How are you?
Hello.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
thank you for joining me.
I'm very excited to dig intothis topic today because I think
it's one that a lot of runnersdeal with, whether they like to
admit it or not, because this isa topic today.
We're talking about bingeeating, and like emotional
(01:28):
eating and all of those things.
It is.
More of a sensitive topic, Ithink.
And so can you just before wedive into, the topic of the
hour, give us a little bit of anidea about who you are, what you
do, who do you help, and how yougot into this line of work.
Kelly (01:42):
Yeah, sure.
thank you again, Angie, for somuch for having me.
again, everyone, I'm so excitedto be here.
My name is Kelly Lyons and I ama nutrition and eating
psychology coach.
And what I do is I help womenstop binge eating, stop
overeating so they can feel incontrol around food.
And the way I do that isactually a little bit
unconventional because a lot oftimes people who stop binge
(02:04):
eating based.
Start another diet or they cutcarbs or they, work out 15 times
a week.
Yeah.
Thinking they need morewillpower.
And in reality that's the thingthat's making their binging,
their overeating and foodobsession worse.
So what we actually do with thepeople in my world who struggle
with this is we work on findingyour root cause and then
(02:24):
rewiring your brain.
So food no longer has thisemotional like obsessive.
Hold over you.
And just to get into how I cameacross this and starting helping
others was not only my knowledgeand my education, but also my
experience.
I struggled with binge eatingfor well over 12 years of my
(02:45):
life.
And it's so funny that you sayyou're like, it's not talked
about a lot.
It's, it is 100% a sensitivetopic, but it's also so
isolating.
That people who struggle, theystruggle in silence because.
Binge eating is a, it, it's ahabit or a routine that's based
around shame, guilt, judgment,self-loathing.
(03:06):
So it's something that is soinsanely secretive and I think
just us having this conversationis.
So important because a lot ofpeople who are extremely active
or athletes or runners, nomatter your level of experience,
so many people struggle withthis.
So I'm really excited to havethis conversation.
Angie (03:25):
Yeah, I am too.
So you said you've struggledwith this for 12 years.
Could you give us a little bitof an insight into that journey
of like how it started with youand then when you realized it
was a problem?
Yeah.
What is your experience here?
Kelly (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So mine was actually, itstarted, my senior year in high
school.
And just to kinda let's, wedon't need to go too deep, but
what happened was basically likeI just felt very lost in my
senior year of high school.
I was an athlete and.
Sports ended.
I wasn't sure if I was playingin college and I had so many
friends that had like their lifefigured out, right?
(04:00):
They had their major, they knewwhat college they were going to.
They knew their next chapter,and I didn't.
And usually when I was playingsports, I was getting home at 6
30, 7 o'clock at night.
Now I was getting home at 2 40,2 45 in the afternoon.
No one was home because myparents were working, and I was
lost alone.
I didn't know what to do withmyself.
(04:20):
I didn't turn, I had no one toreally turn to, and I will never
forget the first day I went intothe cabinet.
I had the chewy, chipsa, hoy,like the red thin ones.
And I had a couple and Irealized.
How good they tasted.
It was almost like something litup like, wow, I felt better
eating that.
And I ate the entire frickingthing.
(04:43):
And because I was now 17 and Ihad my license, I was able, I
was like, as soon as I did it, Iwas like, oh my God, what am I
gonna do?
My parents are gonna be like,where the hell did the cookies
go?
So I drove out and I got anotherthing to replenish.
Realize that I could like.
Do this all the time.
And immediately this wassomething that was happening
(05:03):
like every day as a form ofcomfort.
And I gained, naturally someweight and I started Weight
Watchers as what most people didback in the day, right?
And I started Weight Watchersand my first week, of course,
type A perfectionist,overachiever, I followed it
perfectly.
I didn't go over one point and Ilost six pounds in that first
(05:25):
week.
And I immediately was like, ohmy gosh, I found the answer.
I'm gonna get my life back.
I'm gonna.
Stop this, blah, blah, blah, andI weighed in.
I went to my meeting, and thenboom, I took my car and I went
right to McDonald's tocelebrate.
And it was almost like thisswitch of, okay, I did
everything perfect.
I get to reward myself, eat allday.
(05:47):
Then that Sunday I had to beperfect again and in my mind, me
having to be perfect again ledto having to eat everything
right then and there.
And then I started going intosome really dark rabbit holes of
different diets, going, likeworking out multiple times a
day.
Like I would take a class atfive in the morning, I would go
(06:09):
during lunch, and then I wouldgo at night just to try to.
Get my willpower and get my, getmyself back thinking that would
help.
This serious issue that I wasgoing through and nobody knew
about.
And again, this was years andyears of every diet, every rule
book, every exercise, every highintensity, multiple times a day
(06:31):
to try to get myself outta thiscycle.
But like I didn't recognize, ofcourse, looking back now,
everything I did just madeeverything worse and worse.
It was like that snowball effectgoing down a hill, right?
The snowball just got bigger andbigger as it was picking up,
speed.
it was such a traumatic timethat so many people didn't know
about.
And now looking back,recognizing, okay, let's
(06:53):
actually try to heal from theinside out because all I'm doing
is, I'm on Pinterest, I'm onGoogle, I'm buying the books,
getting the recipes.
Getting all this stuff, hiringthe people to help me.
And nothing was working.
And I was like, okay, thisstarted as an inside job, let's
fix it from an inside job.
And that's how I was starting toslowly heal.
Angie (07:15):
That's beautiful.
And like you touch on so manythings there in, your own
journey that I would love tohighlight and dig a little bit
deeper into.
And one of those things is thisidea that diet culture wants to.
Tell us, which is, you have torun to burn calories, you have
to exercise to burn calories, oryou have to exercise to earn
(07:36):
your food.
Did you ever like go throughthat whole thing of using
exercise or running as like ameans to an end here?
Oh, totally.
Kelly (07:43):
Yeah.
And This was my experience froma while ago, but I will tell you
there, I wanna say a couplemonths ago, somebody sent me a
Noom ad.
It was like one ice cream coneequals 1.5 miles of running.
And it's, I hate those things,but that was literally like a
couple months ago.
So it's oh my God, while myexperience, it's still there.
It's still there.
Yeah.
(08:03):
And it's still in our faces, so100%.
And you know what the sad thingis?
Looking back and it's funny, I'mlike, I wonder why I'm not
friends with these peopleanymore.
My friendships.
My friendships were created fromhating our bodies.
And we.
Like we, we consoled each otherin the sense of we would have
(08:24):
pizza at night.
We would talk about howdisgusting our legs were and how
many miles we had to run thenext day.
And what time we were gonna meetup for the gym to burn off what
we were eating tonight.
Yes.
I was not able tocompartmentalize my exercise
routine.
And what I was eating, itimmediately became, if I have
this, then I have to run.
If I have this, then I have togo to the gym.
(08:46):
Not once, but twice.
If I was really bad, guess what?
My ass was getting there threetimes a day.
Yeah.
And not only was I injured allthe time, but yeah.
Absolutely miserable.
And it was it was reallyactually heartbreaking because
growing up playing sports myentire life, I loved it.
(09:07):
I loved it so much.
And all of a sudden it became asource of punishment.
A source of me being a failure,a source of me having to right
all of my wrongs.
Like I felt like I was likegoing into confession every time
I would.
Yeah.
And it immediately became this,I am a bad person.
From what I'm eating and I haveto make up for it.
Angie (09:29):
Yeah.
Kelly (09:30):
Yeah.
It's awful.
Angie (09:31):
it is awful and I think that like it is something that I
think a lot of runners do.
Share whether they want to admitit or not, and whether that was
the original reason that theygot into running.
A lot of people do end upfinding themselves in that place
at some point in time.
I know that it, I have a similarstory as well.
I got into running just becauseI wanted to burn calories and
(09:52):
lose weight and quote unquotelook like a runner, right?
Because runners have skinnybodies.
That sounds like a great idea.
Let me just go do what they'redoing.
but let's go back to bingeeating, and just this topic of
binge eating because.
I really want to help ourlisteners understand the
brain-based reasons why webinge, right?
(10:13):
Because this is something thatyou just fell into one day by
the sounds of it.
You came home from school, youhad nothing else to do.
You're like, oh, I found thesecookies in the cabinet.
But then it turned into thishuge snowball like you
experienced here.
Why does that happen?
what is going on in our brainthat.
Leads to binging and guilt andbinging and guilt in this cycle
that women find themselves in.
Kelly (10:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's a couple things, butI, the first thing when you
talked about, wanting to startrunning for that reason, I will
never forget my now husband, wewere just dating at the time.
We moved in together and, we hada girl, we were in like this
little condo complex.
We had a.
Grocery store right below us.
And I'll never forget, he wasasleep.
(10:55):
I went downstairs, I brought, Igot food.
And like he woke up the nextmorning and he's what are you
talking about?
And I was like, what do youmean?
He's you texted me at twoo'clock in the morning saying
you just signed up for yourfirst half marathon.
And I was like, because, andlike of course it was because I
binged, I hated myself and Ineeded that solution.
Yep.
And like that.
So when, and you needed
Angie (11:16):
your solution right then and there.
Oh.
Because like your brain was like
Kelly (11:18):
grasping for it.
Oh, I'm gonna fix it.
Let's find, do half marathonsnear me.
Let's just go run 13 miles.
And of course, great idea.
Yeah.
But yeah.
So before I get into the reasonswhy we actually.
Do binge because there are threereally large umbrellas.
I think really just talkingabout the cycle of binging and
(11:40):
having to work off this foodwould be really beneficial for
your listeners too.
Absolutely.
So I think of it as like acircle.
So the first thing we wanna do,so there's five steps, right?
The first thing we wanna do iswe want to lose weight.
So what do we do?
Step one is we start a diet, andstep two is when we start this
diet, we restrict in some way,shape, or form.
It's.
Calories, certain macros or likewe can't have bread any, or
(12:03):
can't have, the foods that welike, whatever it is a form of
restriction.
And stage three is my favoritebecause like we think we can
outsmart our bodies and that isthe farthest thing from the, our
bodies are so much smarter thanwe are, so we start to have
cravings and they get louder andlouder, and then something tips
them off, right?
For me, it was my feeling ofanxiety, feeling lonely, or we
(12:26):
just can't handle our cravingsanymore.
And then it's, we give in andthat's when we don't just have
one cookie, we have the wholebox of cookies, we eat
everything.
And immediately from that binge,we have the guilt, the shame,
the self-loathing.
Now not only do I have to loseall the weight that I initially
wanted, I have to lose theweight that I just binged that I
(12:47):
just got from binging.
And what happens is we haveextreme guilt and the only way
to get rid of that guilt.
Is to work it off, make up forit, start another diet and that
Running more food rules and thenwe start back at stage one.
So you are literally going in acircle around and around.
And that's why so many peoplelike they, they feel like they
(13:08):
can't get out of it because theyaren't able to cut that cord.
You know what I mean?
Angie (13:11):
Yeah.
Because they're trying to solvethat problem with restriction
and your body can only berestricted for so long, and then
the, your own bo body's naturalinstincts will kick in.
Which will then lead to moreeating and more of the same
thing.
Kelly (13:25):
We're solving, we're trying to solve the problem with
the exact thing that caused it.
So there are a couple, like Imentioned, umbrellas that I like
to call them as to why peoplebinge.
So the first one is restrictiondriven, and that is when.
You are not giving your body theproper fuel.
And the proper nutrients and theproper macros and balanced
plates, whatever it is to fuelyour body to the best of its
(13:48):
ability.
Yep.
That is what happens when, likea perfect example is we wake up,
we have to be good, right?
We have our egg white omelet.
we, for lunch, we have ourgrilled chicken salad.
Maybe we have an apple if we'relucky.
And then it's like we get homefrom work and we are.
Hangry.
We are losing our minds.
We are irritable and all of asudden something happens and
(14:10):
we're like, why am I evenbothering?
Let's eat.
Angie (14:12):
Yeah.
And it's
Kelly (14:13):
a biological response.
To the lack of food we aregiving ourselves.
And I know you're a bigproponent of this, but like we
need to have carbs.
Angie (14:22):
Yeah.
Yes.
Kelly (14:24):
Especially as runners when Oh my gosh.
And even just like.
Thinking about it in that sense,when you are running and the
amount of extra fuel you needbefore and after, and as you're
the professional on this during,depending if it's like a long
endurance run, right?
If you are not giving your bodythat your body is going to get
(14:45):
that food in one way or another.
And it's usually in the form ofcookies, chips, ice cream,
pretzels.
You're standing in front of thefridge like shoveling shredded
cheese.
And.
Immediately having that guiltand shame after.
Yeah.
And I shredded cheese, likefalling all
Angie (15:00):
over the floor.
Kelly (15:01):
Literally.
Yeah.
like I'll never forget when Iwas living at home, my dad
walked downstairs and I was justlike eating cold pasta from the
Tupperware and People, yourlisteners, right?
You may be like, okay, Kel,that's crazy.
that isn't my level.
You don't have to be like facefirst in the fridge, like
Garfield, right?
Like the orange couch shovelingthe food.
(15:21):
If you can still have a reallyterrible relationship with food
and exercise.
Angie (15:26):
Yeah.
If you
Kelly (15:27):
are.
Eating, to have the perfect bodyand then running to work off
what you just ate.
So there's, it's a really, a lotof people see it as black and
white, but it's actually a verylarge spectrum of what it can
look like for people.
Yeah,
Angie (15:40):
I agree.
And I think that there's a lotof people that fall into this
trap when they start signing upfor long, longer races as well,
like half marathons andmarathons.
A lot of people like you.
Sign up for the, like that firstrace to lose weight, right?
They're like, I need to loseweight, so I need something to
keep me motivated.
If I sign up for this race, thenI will have something on the
calendar that will make me goout and do the thing.
(16:01):
And so what they do is they aretrying to train for a longer
race, make their body dosomething harder than they've
ever done before.
And restricting their foodbecause they think they're still
in that calorie mentality,right?
Of this is gonna be great.
I'm just gonna keep eating thesame amount or even less.
And then running more.
I'm gonna be burning like athousand extra calories a day.
(16:21):
I'm gonna be putting myself in ahuge deficit, and that's gonna
lead me to the body that I want.
And in reality, it needs tocomplete, burnout and failure
because you're not giving yourbody what it needs.
And like you said.
Your body's always going tostimulate you to get what you
need.
And a lot of people do end upbinging and eating a lot and
they're like, I just don'tunderstand why I have all of
(16:42):
these sugar cravings.
This is so weird.
It's be, and I'm, I tell themit's because you're not giving
your body what it actuallyneeds.
And so it, it's going to giveyou those cravings for that fast
sugar in order to get into yourbloodstream to try to satisfy
some of the deficits that youare creating.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Kelly (17:00):
And we talked about.
This when you were on my podcastand oh my gosh, that was such an
incredible conversation.
But even I'll, this was probablylike at this point like a month
or two ago, but I was at the gymand it was just like one of
those days I had a crazymorning.
I didn't get to eat.
I was doing back squats and Iwas like.
My head was foggy, I wasexhausted, my numbers were like
(17:22):
really low.
And then a week later I hadbreakfast.
I went to the gym to do the sameback squats.
I was able to add 25 morepounds.
Yeah.
Do multiple more reps.
And I just felt so much morefueled and energized.
And just so much better.
And it's oh, what's thedifference?
very, like I, I ate, I hadcarbs, I had fat, I had protein
(17:45):
before.
I did that strenuous exercise.
And I'm sure it's very similarwith running.
Angie (17:50):
Absolutely.
And I think that when we underfuel, when we don't give our
body what we need because we'rerestricting it, whether or not
you're restricting, because Ithink that some people do it
unconsciously.
some people restrict on purposebecause they want to lose
weight.
They wanna lose fat.
And then I think that there'sother people that just don't
realize how much extra they needto eat, especially if they're
(18:10):
training for a longer race, likea half or a full, there's a,
it's a significant amount, likeyou have to eat a lot more food
to keep your body fueled,especially like you were saying
before and after.
Like your body needs that fuelright away.
it needs the fuel to go out torun and then also needs to
refuel right afterwards.
And when we're restricting orwe're not refueling that tank,
(18:31):
it's going to just.
It messes with our hormones,basically like the science
behind it, right?
Is that it messes with ourhormones and your body's going
to be hungrier throughout theday.
Kelly (18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
You're literally like trying toget gas from an empty tank.
100%.
so that's like the restrictionside of it.
Yeah.
And then the two other umbrellasthat we really dive into is,
it's emotionally driven.
It is, you are, whether it's,you are trying to like cope, get
comfort, you're trying to numb,avoid.
(19:02):
not look at something.
Because what happens is when wehave really uncomfortable
feelings, thoughts, or emotions,they almost like bubble up in
our body, right?
And so many of us were taught.
Walk it off, don't talk aboutit.
Shut up and smile.
and a lot of us don't know howto name process, but most
importantly deal with ouremotions without letting them
like completely take over,right?
(19:24):
So what happens is we don't wantto feel these feelings.
So what do we do?
We shovel it down with food.
It is easier for our brain tonotice something tangible.
So what I mean by that is likerather than, okay, why?
What were you feeling?
What's going on in your body?
what's the emotion?
Rather than dealing with that.
(19:45):
'cause nobody wants to talkabout that stuff, wants to look
at that.
Your brain would much rathersay, wow.
you know you're a failure yetagain.
You just ate 14 cookies when youweren't supposed to because that
is something you can actuallysee, feel, and like derive guilt
from, rather than looking atwhat's going on underneath.
(20:05):
So if you are someone whostruggles with emotionally
eating, or you notice you eatwhen you're lonely or sad or
anxious, or you like eat atnight when the house is asleep
or whatever it is.
The one thing I'm gonna say is.
A great starting point is tojust take a step back and if you
aren't hungry, ask yourself,okay, what is it that I want
food to give me right now?
(20:27):
Because usually it's comfort,happiness, joy, peace.
Getting rid of feelings ofloneliness, like I said before.
But we have to realize that foodis not going to give us any of
that.
Yes, it will as we're eating,like for those first couple
minutes, but then as soon aswe're done.
We still have the same stress ontop of the guilt of everything
(20:47):
that just happened.
So it's more coming at yourselfwith curiosity rather than
anger, shame, and judgment,because those are the biggest
emotions that drive binging.
So you eat, you hate yourself,you're pissed at yourself,
you're ashamed.
Guess.
You're just going to keep eatingbecause the next question is why
am I even bothering?
Screw it, I'll just start overtomorrow.
(21:08):
I already screwed up.
Because so many of us whostruggle with a not great
relationship with food, we livein that all or nothing
mentality.
If I'm gonna be bad, then I'mgonna be really bad.
Angie (21:20):
Yeah.
and it's also.
Yeah.
I think it's also like yourbrain wanting to find evidence
for why you feel this way too.
Like what, going back to whatyou were saying about you have
some sort of like guilt or angeror shame or something, and
instead of digging in and tryingto actually find the root cause
of that, you're like, let mejust eat and now I can be upset
at myself for eating.
(21:41):
it's like this feedback loopthat you're giving your brain
evidence for why this.
Why you deserve to feel this wayor why you feel this way, so you
don't have to dig into some ofthe more uncomfortable stuff
correct and the uncomfortablestuff.
Guess what?
It stays there.
Kelly (21:54):
So nothing ever.
gets changed.
Yeah.
And yes, we've tried, as Imentioned, the diets, the keto,
the noom, the Weight Watchers,whatever it is.
Yeah.
But again, that's nothing morethan a bandaid.
Yep.
Because yes, we may start offlosing weight, but then
especially if you are an athleteand you're a runner, you are.
Getting injured, you're burningout, you're not fueling
(22:14):
yourself, you're bing.
So it's extremely, it's in thislike cycle that we just go round
and around in.
Angie (22:20):
Yeah.
And the other thing I want topoint out too is yes there are
these uncomfortable emotionslike guilt and shame and all
these other things, but a lot ofpeople that I've talked to also
just eat out of boredom.
Because they don't, nothing elseto do and like they don't
realize that is emotionaleating.
Bored, like boredom is a feelingthat you're trying to just fill,
and so you fill that with food.
Kelly (22:41):
Yes.
Angie (22:41):
And I
Kelly (22:42):
love that you said that because a lot of people say I
eat when I'm bored because I am.
I'm on the east coast.
I am near New York.
go.
Hustle, hustle.
People struggle to be bored,people struggle to rest.
Yes.
We always think that we have togo.
Must be productive.
And even if we're deciding torest, The only thing that's
going on our mind is just likethe scroll of the to-do list.
(23:04):
I shouldn't be doing this.
I have to do X, y, z, blah,blah, blah.
And
Angie (23:07):
Yep.
Kelly (23:08):
Again, we get those feelings of being bored and not
being comfortable.
It is Okay.
To be bored, to have nothing todo to rest and be okay with it.
And the more you fight it, thenwe look for food.
Yep.
Yeah.
Bored is such a big one.
Angie (23:25):
Yeah.
And it's so hard.
And I think that's what'sleading to more I'm even
noticing it in myself, like withthe phones, like with the
scrolling and things like that.
'cause like I'm not binging onfood, but I'm my.
Thumb is binging with these damnlittle TikTok, not tiktoks, but
the reels.
I don't really go on TikTok asmuch'cause I'm old, but you save
yourself.
It's totally, it's fine.
(23:45):
But it's that, it's those likesmall hits of dopamine that are
totally, keeping us in thesehabits that like, I'm literally
sitting there I should not bedoing this.
Why am I doing this right now?
And I feel like that's the samefeedback loop that's happening
when it comes to eating.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Kelly (23:59):
And Angela,
Angie (23:59):
I
Kelly (23:59):
have I have an app actually that.
It's like you figure out whattimes you don't wanna go on
social.
'cause like you use the screentime on Apple and it's dismiss
for today.
Yeah.
I have never not pressed thedismiss button.
Yeah.
So this, I have on the highestlevel I can't even get in.
there is no.
Why So I actually like it'causeit forced me to not
Angie (24:22):
do that.
Kelly (24:22):
So Yeah.
It
Angie (24:22):
locks you out.
very similar.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
All right.
What's the third reason that webinge?
Oh yeah,
Kelly (24:28):
absolutely.
So we talked about restrictiondriven, emotionally driven, and
then the next one is habitdriven.
So I feel like looking back,once I started like picking it
up, the, it did also become ahabit.
And if you are sitting therelistening, you're like, okay, I
do all three.
Believe me, they are allintertwined with each other.
Again, it's not black and whitewhere it's I do it because
restriction.
(24:49):
I do it because it's a habit.
But what happens?
So for example, when I think oflike a habit driven, I think
like people who eat at night,right?
person who has young kids orwhatever, they clean the
kitchen, they put the kids tobed, they sit on the couch and
immediately it.
Reality TV and ice cream orchips or whatever, and yes, that
can start from restriction.
(25:10):
Because if you're not eatingenough, you are going to be
hungry and hangry and all thosewonderful things at night.
That habit also comes fromcontinuously having that cue of
kids are asleep.
I'm seeing this as like finallyI can just sit down and relax.
And as a mom, I know thatfeeling, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
As you do too.
And then it's like the habit ofcouch relaxation tv, those are
(25:33):
your cues.
And immediately You want thatreward of eating.
Yep.
If you're noticing, it hasbecome a habit over time.
I think one of the things, ifyou're, if you use food as a
form of self-care, we have torecognize, we have to have
different forms of self-careduring the day.
Because if you are not likefeeling happy or enjoying what
you're doing or having a littleme time, of course when you
(25:56):
start eating, if that's the onlything that's truly making you
happy, you're not gonna be,wanna be able to stop.
Who would, so really findinglike little pockets of time.
And it doesn't need to be thishuge, spend a ton of money, go
get like$150 massage, Go sitoutside on your porch for 10
minutes.
Call somebody you love.
Just these little tiny things.
for me, my, I love taking likehot showers to the point my skin
(26:18):
borderline melts off.
that's my thing at night.
It calms me down.
I get in my pajamas, but thenlike in the morning, I make sure
that I have a really nice likeiced coffee where I'm either.
Sitting outside or catching upon sports radio.
'cause I love sports and it'slike the kids are in daycare,
it's my time.
(26:38):
But if I didn't have those twothings, if the only thing that
was making me happy was cookies,guess what?
I would constantly be eatingcookies.
Yeah.
So that's one.
And then another thing is tochange your cue.
So if you're someone sitting onthe couch, you immediately want
to eat.
Then maybe it can be as simpleas one go to bed.
Two watch TV in a just as simpleas going into a different room,
(27:02):
right?
and while obviously it's alittle bit more nuanced than
that, those can be really goodstarting points.
If we're noticing it's becominga habit.
Angie (27:10):
Yeah, because we are creatures of habit.
Absolutely.
And the location alone is oneof, that can be a trigger for
people.
Kelly (27:17):
100%.
And our brain likes to beefficient, right?
Yes.
it wants to move as quickly aspossible.
It likes its routine.
So guess what?
Goodnight kids.
Close the door, go downstairs.
Routine.
Bravo for me.
Put bravo on the couch and theneating.
So it's just immediately likeswitching things up a little
bit.
(27:38):
Yeah.
To not have that cue go off andthe alarm bells go off where
it's oh, time to eat.
Angie (27:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we can change some of thosehabitual things that might
trigger that.
The, the habit of binge eatingessentially.
What are some other simplethings that we can do to start
to rewire some of these thoughtpatterns around food and body
image and restriction?
I know that's a huge topic and ahuge question, but like, where
(28:06):
do we start with all of this?
if you know that you'resuffering with binge eating,
like where, like what would youtell me to do if I am coming to
you with this problem?
Kelly (28:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a ton of things,but I, the one thing I really
People to start with is practicenoticing when you fall into the
all or nothing mentality.
Because what happens really witha lot of people when it comes to
eating is like you start to eatwhether it's okay, and I always
use cookies.
I really need to have morevariety in my food cookie.
I
Angie (28:33):
mean, who wouldn't use cookies?
I feel like I know right?
Cookies is the right way to dothis, right?
You
Kelly (28:37):
have one or two cookies you are like, oh, I shouldn't
have done that.
I'm being bad.
And immediately you're like,okay, I'm gonna start over
tomorrow.
your brain says if I'm gonnastart over tomorrow, yeah.
You better guess I'm getting myfreaking money's worth right
now.
And immediately you're going toeat all of them because you
almost gave yourself like a timelimit on when you can have these
(28:58):
cookies.
Angie (28:59):
Yeah.
Your
Kelly (28:59):
brain doesn't know that You can actually drive to the
store and go get more cookiestomorrow.
Because you're telling yourselfyou can't, so your brain thinks,
oh, all the cookies in the worldare gone.
So something so simple aschanging your thoughts around
food in the simple sense of, Ican have this food any time I
want, so let's change it up.
(29:19):
Let's think of pizza, right?
If I am, pizza was always like abig thing for me.
Something I always struggledwith.
If I'm having pizza.
With my family on a Saturdaynight, right?
And immediately like I'm feelingfull.
I don't know if I should keepgoing.
The guilt starts creep creepingin.
I can feel my all or nothingmentality, just recognizing, oh
wait, I can actually have pizzatomorrow.
I can also, if I really wantedto wake up Monday, drive first
(29:41):
thing when I get up and go getsome.
And.
When you recognize the abundanceof food around you, it loses
that, oh my gosh, I must eateverything now mentality.
So that's one of the things Iwould start with.
I think the second one is justreally become aware of the way
you're speaking.
And I'm obviously, we putourselves like we are our own
(30:03):
worst critics.
It's, it is terrible how wespeak to each other.
So recognizing that.
And coming at it with more of aneutral stance, right?
I what?
Nothing drives me more crazywhen people say oh, you just
love your body and bodypositivity.
I think 24 7 body positivity ishonestly like complete garbage.
I'm with you on that for sure.
(30:24):
come on.
And for the
Angie (30:25):
roots of it are good, but the way that it's implemented is
not the idea's.
Good.
Yeah.
Is
Kelly (30:29):
anyone walking around loving themselves 24 7?
No.
Something so simple as I may notlove how I look today.
But I deserve self-respect.
I deserve to treat myself withkindness and how I just start
like looking around.
And how many times do you sayI'm being so bad today.
Oh, I have to be good today.
Oh, I messed up.
(30:51):
I want you to recognize thepressure language that you're
putting on yourself.
So what I mean by that is like.
The pressure if oh, I'm beinggood today.
You are putting pressure onyourself to continue being good,
and you're gonna get to a pointwhere it's either restriction or
somebody pisses you off orsomeone cuts you off in traffic
and you can't take it anymore.
Yeah.
So you fall off the deep end.
(31:12):
Or we say oh, I'm being badtoday.
Let's eat.
Let's get margaritas.
Yeah.
I'm being bad.
Yeah.
Or the cheat meal.
Yeah.
yeah.
If I'm gonna be bad, guess what?
If I have to be good tomorrow,I'm gonna be really bad today.
Just noticing when we're talkingin very extremes and practice
neutrality.
again, we could go, there's somuch more, but the mo, like in
(31:33):
the beginning you have to startbeing aware Yeah.
Of the way you're thinking andthe way you're acting.
And we don't realize how much wewaffle between both end of the
extremes.
And the way we think and the waywe speak.
It's not about the food that,that is driving us.
To have these eating patternsthat we do.
Angie (31:52):
Yeah.
You mentioned the all or nothingmentality in there quite a few
times.
Oh yeah.
Do you think that is really likeone of the biggest core drivers
of all of this?
Kelly (32:01):
I think a lot of people who struggle with binging and
emotional eating, they areoverachievers, right?
Type a hardworking, and that isif you look at your life Usually
you'll see the all or nothingmentality In, in, in different
facets of your life.
Yeah.
I bet that makes
Angie (32:21):
it so much harder too, right?
Because you've been sosuccessful in other areas and
you're like, why can't I figurethis area out?
Kelly (32:29):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
Like it's the career, it's thefamily.
It's the friend, it's the home.
It's the beautiful like lawn inyour front yard.
It's like, why don't I know howto eat?
And it's because you areoverachieving, perfectionist.
I have to do everything right.
I have to be perfect.
And the zero moderation.
Angie (32:49):
When
Kelly (32:49):
you aren't capable of having moderation.
You're gonna go off the deep endwhen it comes to having that one
cookie or going to that barbecueor going to vacation, or with
runners too, it's okay, I justhad this, so I need to go run 5,
6, 7 miles, whatever it is.
That is the all or nothingmentality and action.
And we don't even realize it.
Angie (33:09):
Absolutely.
A lot of people in our audienceare in midlife, and I know
you're not there yet.
you're still in that wonderfulyoung baby having life part of
your life, which is great.
But one of the big things thatwomen start to see in
perimenopause and menopause arethese hormonal shifts and
changes in their way, in the waythat their body holds on to
(33:30):
weight.
And a lot of times.
Women that maybe had an okayrelationship with their body and
exercise and food, now all of asudden they're doing these
things and that used to work,and all of a sudden their body's
not responding the same andtheir body's holding onto
weight.
And so many women fall back intothose old patterns of
(33:51):
restriction and let me just domore, let me just push harder
that we've been conditionedwith.
So what would you say to kind ofthose women that had.
a healthier relationship withtheir body and with food, maybe
this midlife period that we'regoing through, how can that.
Maybe be an opportunity tocreate a healthier relationship
(34:13):
with food moving forward.
Kelly (34:14):
Yeah, I love that.
And while I am not there yet,many, in my community, we have
like thousands of members,right?
I have people in their forties,fifties, sixties, seventies
Yeah.
Who no longer binge.
And I think one of.
Biggest things is that we focuson is our hunger and fullness,
right?
Sometimes it comes down to, sosimply learning how your body
(34:36):
feels when it's hungry, andlearning how it feels when it's
full, and practicing eating andnot eating.
Be like in between those two andobviously.
If you've struggled for a while,you're like, I don't even know
how to tell when we feel full.
It does take time.
It does take patience.
But also too, making sure thatyour meals are balanced.
(34:56):
Making sure we're havingprotein.
Yeah.
Realizing that carbs are not theenemy and so many people, like
I, I'll never forget, we haveone woman in our community.
She's going through menopauseand she ended up losing like.
55 pounds and no longer binging.
And she was like, it's becauselike I learned how to fuel my
body without punishing it.
(35:18):
Yes.
And she would make sure that shehad carbs with every meal, fat
and protein.
But when you're focusing on yourhunger fullness, you can
actually balance your bloodsugar a lot easier rather than.
Freezing and snacking and Andthe, not eating for six or seven
hours, which puts your bloodsugar completely out of whack.
Angie (35:35):
exactly.
And it's so interesting thoughtoo.
and this kind of goes back toour emotional relationship with
food, because when people comeinto, my world, which I'm sure
is like very similar to the onespeople in yours, and you're
actually talking to them about.
Nourishing their body andfueling their body and giving
their body what they need.
A lot of women get scared, likethere's genuine fear that comes
(35:58):
up.
Like I literally am telling you,eat more.
And they're like, but what if Igain weight?
Like they're afraid to eat more.
And it is a real fear.
Kelly (36:07):
It is such a real fear.
Yeah.
And
Angie (36:09):
sometimes
Kelly (36:10):
the sounds, so sometimes I need to like just.
Put up a mirror for them and Iwill ask them like Is what
you've been doing?
Has that worked?
Yeah.
A lot of people, it's like, if Igive up tracking Calorie
counting macros Yep.
Then I will never stop eating.
Yep.
It's no, your, I don't wannawait to say the word, like your
psychotic and your obsessionwith those numbers Are the
(36:33):
things that have led you to dothat.
and it's so funny you say thatthis fear and what we actually
like to do is literally likehabitation, like exposure
therapy, right?
Yeah.
And letting people when they'rehungry, actually allow
themselves to eat what theywant, right?
Let's say you want.
Pizza for lunch.
And or chicken cutlet sandwich.
(36:54):
But of course you're getting thegrilled chicken salad.
What if you know you're hungry,you sit down for lunch, you get
the two slices of pizza, youallow yourself to have it
without guilt.
And you are able to have theprocess of learning to listen to
your body when you're full.
Incredible things are gonnahappen.
One, you are going to mostlikely eat less because you're
(37:14):
able to recognize when you'refull.
You are not feeling guilty, soyou're not eating more because
you're fully allowing yourselfto have it.
And then between that meal andwhenever your next one is, you
are actually not thinking aboutfood because you gave your brain
the mental satisfaction ratherthan Forcing a grilled chicken
salad and then looking aroundall day for more food.
(37:34):
Because your brain's okay, thatsucked.
That's not what I want.
I wanna keep eating.
Yeah.
So when you put yourself inthose experiences, it's almost
like you may have that fearuntil you actually see the
process like unfolding right infront of you.
Angie (37:49):
Yeah.
when women in my world.
express that to me.
I do something similar.
I basically say, okay, exactlywhat you said, has it been
working right?
Like with what you've beendoing, has it been working?
And then I get them to commit toa time period.
I say, okay, what if we just trythis for two weeks?
What if we just try this for amonth and just see how you feel?
You can always go back to theway that you were doing things
(38:11):
if you want to.
But let's just.
Commit to a time period whereyou're going to try to, connect
to your body, actually fuelyourself, allow yourself to have
different things and see how youfeel afterwards.
Because once women start toallow themselves and give
themselves that permission,they're never going back.
Kelly (38:28):
Yeah.
it's such, it's a, it's such a,like a completely different
ballgame and you're like, yeah.
I cannot believe.
And now, like I'm sure youmembers YouTube, they love just
like pointing out diet cultureor like secretly laughing when
their friends are just likecommiserating how much they hate
themselves.
And it's everywhere.
And you start to notice, you'relike, wow, I've actually been
brainwashed for a very longtime.
Angie (38:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really wild when you lookaround and see how prevalent it
is in so many aspects of ourculture that we don't even
realize.
Kelly (38:59):
Yeah, and it's funny, like I am obviously, as I'm
pregnant right now.
I'm around like 19, 20 ishweeks.
And I've gotten a lot of dms ofokay, how are you gonna lose the
baby weight?
How are you eating?
How are you?
And I'm like, this is my thirdkid.
I'm just going to continue toinstill the tools that I teach
every day and learn how to fuelmy body and listen to my hunger
(39:20):
fullness.
And.
I will go back to feeling mybest because I'm not going to be
killing myself in the gym,tracking every single macro or
whatever it may be.
And people are like, wait, what?
Angie (39:33):
Wait a second, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Imagine you actually like yourbody and take care of it.
Kelly (39:38):
I know, right?
Angie (39:38):
A totally different world.
Kelly, this, conversation hasbeen so enlightening.
Before we wrap up, is thereanything else that you would
like to leave our listenerswith?
Kelly (39:47):
Yeah.
I think no matter like what youare struggling with or how old
you are or how long you've hadskin in the game of like binging
or a terrible relationship withfood, you can 100% change.
And a lot of people think youneed, the.
Therapists and the new mealplans and the whatever.
(40:08):
And while those are all well andgood, change starts from within
and it is 100% possible tochange.
A lot of people feel like we'vebeen doomed, or this is just how
it is, or we're always gonna belike this, but There is a ripple
effect to when you change andwhen you heal your relationship
with food, when you heal, yourrelationship with exercise, the
(40:29):
ripple effect of the otheraspects of your life that
improve as well as the peopleyou love.
Angie (40:35):
Yeah.
So
Kelly (40:36):
I just want you to recognize that no matter where
you are, you can change.
Even if you feel like there isno way out right now.
Angie (40:44):
Absolutely.
And I think that really allstarts with trust by the sounds
of it, right?
learning how to trust your body.
Again, learning how to trustyourself around food because I
think that so many of us havebeen conditioned not to trust
ourselves.
We've been given these foodrules.
And you've been taught no.
Even if you're hungry, don'teat.
(41:05):
Because then you're gonna goover your set amount of calories
for the day.
And so we've been taught to nottrust ourselves, do that.
Oh my gosh.
I love how you're like, what's
Kelly (41:13):
the last thing?
I'm like, okay, I know it'sokay.
It's okay.
Angie (41:15):
This is what happens.
Sometimes we're all like, yes.
Kelly (41:18):
And then I just opened up a huge topic.
Yeah.
So we're gonna talk for anotherhour and a half.
Yeah.
no, but I, when it comes to thetrust, like I like to remind
people like.
Look around and whether you area parent or a caregiver or
children or you're a teacher,you like saw kids at the mall
the other day.
I like, have you ever seen kidshave one bite of pizza and then
(41:39):
put the pizza down?
Or get ice cream and have thefirst scoop and be like, okay,
mommy, I'm done.
Or Yeah, no thanks.
I'm not hungry.
I'll never forget when I wasbinging.
I was like, how is my 6-year-oldniece just like stopping eating
with this pizza?
I want you to recognize that youhad that as well.
You had those cues and they havenever gone away.
They have not gone anywhere.
(42:00):
What happens is that volume inyour body of that self-trust,
that discernment, that beingable to listen to your cues, it
got smaller and that volume gotturned down due to diet culture.
People commenting on.
you getting seconds, yourweight, aren't you supposed to
run that off or, just anyexperience that you had growing
(42:22):
up around food in your body.
I want you to walk away withknowing that those cues and that
discernment and that trust inyourself is still inside of you.
yeah.
I love what you said abouttrusting your body.
Yeah.
It's the only thing, like itdrives me crazy.
People are the first to shametheir bodies, pinch their fat,
put it down.
(42:43):
And berate it.
And it's this is the only thingkeeping you here.
Yeah.
This is literally the only thingkeeping you
Angie (42:49):
here.
Yeah.
But people do with running too,I think that's why these things
are so intertwined because.
You've been taught to ignorewhat your body's trying to tell
you in running too.
And this is the other thingwhere I try to tell help people.
I'm like, no.
that means you need to slowdown.
when you feel that way, you needto slow down.
But they've been taught, no, Ijust have to keep pushing
harder.
That means I'm doing it right.
because they have this, no pain,no gain mentality.
(43:12):
there's all of these different,mentalities and things that
we've been taught throughout theyears that maybe apply.
to one situation, but don'tapply well to others.
And then we take'em and we apply'em to everything.
all or nothing.
No pain, no gain.
Yeah.
Can be helpful sometimes, right?
Like these, it's not like thosethings are always bad.
They can be helpful at sometimeswe just, yeah.
Have to be careful how we applythem.
(43:34):
A hundred
Kelly (43:34):
percent.
I love it.
Angie (43:36):
Awesome.
Kelly, thank you so much forthis.
Let our listeners know where canthey find you if they wanna
learn more and connect with you.
Kelly (43:42):
Yeah, of course.
So you can find me on Instagram,Kelly l Wellness and my podcast,
which.
Dr.
Angie was on as well, and it wasa thing, the Food Freedom
Society podcast.
But yeah, send me a dm, let usknow what you liked and what
your takeaway was with thisepisode.
And Angie, thank you so much forhaving me.
It's always so much fun hangingwith you.
Angie (44:00):
Absolutely.
And of course, we'll put all ofthose links in the show notes.
So if you guys wanna connectwith Kelly, check out the show
notes and send her a DM today.
this is the Real Life RunnersPodcast, episode number 430.
(00:04):
Today I get to sit down withKelly Lyons and we talk about a
topic that a lot of people.
Struggle with, but not a lot ofpeople talk about, and that is
binge eating.
Especially as runners, we areoften very conscious and try to
be healthy.
And for a lot of people thatleads to restriction, which
unfortunately can lead a lot ofrunners into the cycle of
(00:26):
restricting and binge eating.
So today I talk to Kelly, who isa.
An expert in this area, and shebreaks down the three hidden
patterns that can be the rootcauses of binge eating and how
to overcome them.
So if this is ever somethingthat you have struggled with,
stay tuned.
Angie (01:06):
Welcome to the podcast today.
I am so excited to have KellyLyons here with me.
Hello, Kelly.
How are you?
Hello.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
thank you for joining me.
I'm very excited to dig intothis topic today because I think
it's one that a lot of runnersdeal with, whether they like to
admit it or not, because this isa topic today.
We're talking about bingeeating, and like emotional
(01:28):
eating and all of those things.
It is.
More of a sensitive topic, Ithink.
And so can you just before wedive into, the topic of the
hour, give us a little bit of anidea about who you are, what you
do, who do you help, and how yougot into this line of work.
Kelly (01:42):
Yeah, sure.
thank you again, Angie, for somuch for having me.
again, everyone, I'm so excitedto be here.
My name is Kelly Lyons and I ama nutrition and eating
psychology coach.
And what I do is I help womenstop binge eating, stop
overeating so they can feel incontrol around food.
And the way I do that isactually a little bit
unconventional because a lot oftimes people who stop binge
(02:04):
eating based.
Start another diet or they cutcarbs or they, work out 15 times
a week.
Yeah.
Thinking they need morewillpower.
And in reality that's the thingthat's making their binging,
their overeating and foodobsession worse.
So what we actually do with thepeople in my world who struggle
with this is we work on findingyour root cause and then
(02:24):
rewiring your brain.
So food no longer has thisemotional like obsessive.
Hold over you.
And just to get into how I cameacross this and starting helping
others was not only my knowledgeand my education, but also my
experience.
I struggled with binge eatingfor well over 12 years of my
(02:45):
life.
And it's so funny that you sayyou're like, it's not talked
about a lot.
It's, it is 100% a sensitivetopic, but it's also so
isolating.
That people who struggle, theystruggle in silence because.
Binge eating is a, it, it's ahabit or a routine that's based
around shame, guilt, judgment,self-loathing.
(03:06):
So it's something that is soinsanely secretive and I think
just us having this conversationis.
So important because a lot ofpeople who are extremely active
or athletes or runners, nomatter your level of experience,
so many people struggle withthis.
So I'm really excited to havethis conversation.
Angie (03:25):
Yeah, I am too.
So you said you've struggledwith this for 12 years.
Could you give us a little bitof an insight into that journey
of like how it started with youand then when you realized it
was a problem?
Yeah.
What is your experience here?
Kelly (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So mine was actually, itstarted, my senior year in high
school.
And just to kinda let's, wedon't need to go too deep, but
what happened was basically likeI just felt very lost in my
senior year of high school.
I was an athlete and.
Sports ended.
I wasn't sure if I was playingin college and I had so many
friends that had like their lifefigured out, right?
(04:00):
They had their major, they knewwhat college they were going to.
They knew their next chapter,and I didn't.
And usually when I was playingsports, I was getting home at 6
30, 7 o'clock at night.
Now I was getting home at 2 40,2 45 in the afternoon.
No one was home because myparents were working, and I was
lost alone.
I didn't know what to do withmyself.
(04:20):
I didn't turn, I had no one toreally turn to, and I will never
forget the first day I went intothe cabinet.
I had the chewy, chipsa, hoy,like the red thin ones.
And I had a couple and Irealized.
How good they tasted.
It was almost like something litup like, wow, I felt better
eating that.
And I ate the entire frickingthing.
(04:43):
And because I was now 17 and Ihad my license, I was able, I
was like, as soon as I did it, Iwas like, oh my God, what am I
gonna do?
My parents are gonna be like,where the hell did the cookies
go?
So I drove out and I got anotherthing to replenish.
Realize that I could like.
Do this all the time.
And immediately this wassomething that was happening
(05:03):
like every day as a form ofcomfort.
And I gained, naturally someweight and I started Weight
Watchers as what most people didback in the day, right?
And I started Weight Watchersand my first week, of course,
type A perfectionist,overachiever, I followed it
perfectly.
I didn't go over one point and Ilost six pounds in that first
(05:25):
week.
And I immediately was like, ohmy gosh, I found the answer.
I'm gonna get my life back.
I'm gonna.
Stop this, blah, blah, blah, andI weighed in.
I went to my meeting, and thenboom, I took my car and I went
right to McDonald's tocelebrate.
And it was almost like thisswitch of, okay, I did
everything perfect.
I get to reward myself, eat allday.
(05:47):
Then that Sunday I had to beperfect again and in my mind, me
having to be perfect again ledto having to eat everything
right then and there.
And then I started going intosome really dark rabbit holes of
different diets, going, likeworking out multiple times a
day.
Like I would take a class atfive in the morning, I would go
(06:09):
during lunch, and then I wouldgo at night just to try to.
Get my willpower and get my, getmyself back thinking that would
help.
This serious issue that I wasgoing through and nobody knew
about.
And again, this was years andyears of every diet, every rule
book, every exercise, every highintensity, multiple times a day
(06:31):
to try to get myself outta thiscycle.
But like I didn't recognize, ofcourse, looking back now,
everything I did just madeeverything worse and worse.
It was like that snowball effectgoing down a hill, right?
The snowball just got bigger andbigger as it was picking up,
speed.
it was such a traumatic timethat so many people didn't know
about.
And now looking back,recognizing, okay, let's
(06:53):
actually try to heal from theinside out because all I'm doing
is, I'm on Pinterest, I'm onGoogle, I'm buying the books,
getting the recipes.
Getting all this stuff, hiringthe people to help me.
And nothing was working.
And I was like, okay, thisstarted as an inside job, let's
fix it from an inside job.
And that's how I was starting toslowly heal.
Angie (07:15):
That's beautiful.
And like you touch on so manythings there in, your own
journey that I would love tohighlight and dig a little bit
deeper into.
And one of those things is thisidea that diet culture wants to.
Tell us, which is, you have torun to burn calories, you have
to exercise to burn calories, oryou have to exercise to earn
(07:36):
your food.
Did you ever like go throughthat whole thing of using
exercise or running as like ameans to an end here?
Oh, totally.
Kelly (07:43):
Yeah.
And This was my experience froma while ago, but I will tell you
there, I wanna say a couplemonths ago, somebody sent me a
Noom ad.
It was like one ice cream coneequals 1.5 miles of running.
And it's, I hate those things,but that was literally like a
couple months ago.
So it's oh my God, while myexperience, it's still there.
It's still there.
Yeah.
(08:03):
And it's still in our faces, so100%.
And you know what the sad thingis?
Looking back and it's funny, I'mlike, I wonder why I'm not
friends with these peopleanymore.
My friendships.
My friendships were created fromhating our bodies.
And we.
Like we, we consoled each otherin the sense of we would have
(08:24):
pizza at night.
We would talk about howdisgusting our legs were and how
many miles we had to run thenext day.
And what time we were gonna meetup for the gym to burn off what
we were eating tonight.
Yes.
I was not able tocompartmentalize my exercise
routine.
And what I was eating, itimmediately became, if I have
this, then I have to run.
If I have this, then I have togo to the gym.
(08:46):
Not once, but twice.
If I was really bad, guess what?
My ass was getting there threetimes a day.
Yeah.
And not only was I injured allthe time, but yeah.
Absolutely miserable.
And it was it was reallyactually heartbreaking because
growing up playing sports myentire life, I loved it.
(09:07):
I loved it so much.
And all of a sudden it became asource of punishment.
A source of me being a failure,a source of me having to right
all of my wrongs.
Like I felt like I was likegoing into confession every time
I would.
Yeah.
And it immediately became this,I am a bad person.
From what I'm eating and I haveto make up for it.
Angie (09:29):
Yeah.
Kelly (09:30):
Yeah.
It's awful.
Angie (09:31):
it is awful and I think that like it is something that I
think a lot of runners do.
Share whether they want to admitit or not, and whether that was
the original reason that theygot into running.
A lot of people do end upfinding themselves in that place
at some point in time.
I know that it, I have a similarstory as well.
I got into running just becauseI wanted to burn calories and
(09:52):
lose weight and quote unquotelook like a runner, right?
Because runners have skinnybodies.
That sounds like a great idea.
Let me just go do what they'redoing.
but let's go back to bingeeating, and just this topic of
binge eating because.
I really want to help ourlisteners understand the
brain-based reasons why webinge, right?
(10:13):
Because this is something thatyou just fell into one day by
the sounds of it.
You came home from school, youhad nothing else to do.
You're like, oh, I found thesecookies in the cabinet.
But then it turned into thishuge snowball like you
experienced here.
Why does that happen?
what is going on in our brainthat.
Leads to binging and guilt andbinging and guilt in this cycle
that women find themselves in.
Kelly (10:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's a couple things, butI, the first thing when you
talked about, wanting to startrunning for that reason, I will
never forget my now husband, wewere just dating at the time.
We moved in together and, we hada girl, we were in like this
little condo complex.
We had a.
Grocery store right below us.
And I'll never forget, he wasasleep.
(10:55):
I went downstairs, I brought, Igot food.
And like he woke up the nextmorning and he's what are you
talking about?
And I was like, what do youmean?
He's you texted me at twoo'clock in the morning saying
you just signed up for yourfirst half marathon.
And I was like, because, andlike of course it was because I
binged, I hated myself and Ineeded that solution.
Yep.
And like that.
So when, and you needed
Angie (11:16):
your solution right then and there.
Oh.
Because like your brain was like
Kelly (11:18):
grasping for it.
Oh, I'm gonna fix it.
Let's find, do half marathonsnear me.
Let's just go run 13 miles.
And of course, great idea.
Yeah.
But yeah.
So before I get into the reasonswhy we actually.
Do binge because there are threereally large umbrellas.
I think really just talkingabout the cycle of binging and
(11:40):
having to work off this foodwould be really beneficial for
your listeners too.
Absolutely.
So I think of it as like acircle.
So the first thing we wanna do,so there's five steps, right?
The first thing we wanna do iswe want to lose weight.
So what do we do?
Step one is we start a diet, andstep two is when we start this
diet, we restrict in some way,shape, or form.
It's.
Calories, certain macros or likewe can't have bread any, or
(12:03):
can't have, the foods that welike, whatever it is a form of
restriction.
And stage three is my favoritebecause like we think we can
outsmart our bodies and that isthe farthest thing from the, our
bodies are so much smarter thanwe are, so we start to have
cravings and they get louder andlouder, and then something tips
them off, right?
For me, it was my feeling ofanxiety, feeling lonely, or we
(12:26):
just can't handle our cravingsanymore.
And then it's, we give in andthat's when we don't just have
one cookie, we have the wholebox of cookies, we eat
everything.
And immediately from that binge,we have the guilt, the shame,
the self-loathing.
Now not only do I have to loseall the weight that I initially
wanted, I have to lose theweight that I just binged that I
(12:47):
just got from binging.
And what happens is we haveextreme guilt and the only way
to get rid of that guilt.
Is to work it off, make up forit, start another diet and that
Running more food rules and thenwe start back at stage one.
So you are literally going in acircle around and around.
And that's why so many peoplelike they, they feel like they
(13:08):
can't get out of it because theyaren't able to cut that cord.
You know what I mean?
Angie (13:11):
Yeah.
Because they're trying to solvethat problem with restriction
and your body can only berestricted for so long, and then
the, your own bo body's naturalinstincts will kick in.
Which will then lead to moreeating and more of the same
thing.
Kelly (13:25):
We're solving, we're trying to solve the problem with
the exact thing that caused it.
So there are a couple, like Imentioned, umbrellas that I like
to call them as to why peoplebinge.
So the first one is restrictiondriven, and that is when.
You are not giving your body theproper fuel.
And the proper nutrients and theproper macros and balanced
plates, whatever it is to fuelyour body to the best of its
(13:48):
ability.
Yep.
That is what happens when, likea perfect example is we wake up,
we have to be good, right?
We have our egg white omelet.
we, for lunch, we have ourgrilled chicken salad.
Maybe we have an apple if we'relucky.
And then it's like we get homefrom work and we are.
Hangry.
We are losing our minds.
We are irritable and all of asudden something happens and
(14:10):
we're like, why am I evenbothering?
Let's eat.
Angie (14:12):
Yeah.
And it's
Kelly (14:13):
a biological response.
To the lack of food we aregiving ourselves.
And I know you're a bigproponent of this, but like we
need to have carbs.
Angie (14:22):
Yeah.
Yes.
Kelly (14:24):
Especially as runners when Oh my gosh.
And even just like.
Thinking about it in that sense,when you are running and the
amount of extra fuel you needbefore and after, and as you're
the professional on this during,depending if it's like a long
endurance run, right?
If you are not giving your bodythat your body is going to get
(14:45):
that food in one way or another.
And it's usually in the form ofcookies, chips, ice cream,
pretzels.
You're standing in front of thefridge like shoveling shredded
cheese.
And.
Immediately having that guiltand shame after.
Yeah.
And I shredded cheese, likefalling all
Angie (15:00):
over the floor.
Kelly (15:01):
Literally.
Yeah.
like I'll never forget when Iwas living at home, my dad
walked downstairs and I was justlike eating cold pasta from the
Tupperware and People, yourlisteners, right?
You may be like, okay, Kel,that's crazy.
that isn't my level.
You don't have to be like facefirst in the fridge, like
Garfield, right?
Like the orange couch shovelingthe food.
(15:21):
If you can still have a reallyterrible relationship with food
and exercise.
Angie (15:26):
Yeah.
If you
Kelly (15:27):
are.
Eating, to have the perfect bodyand then running to work off
what you just ate.
So there's, it's a really, a lotof people see it as black and
white, but it's actually a verylarge spectrum of what it can
look like for people.
Yeah,
Angie (15:40):
I agree.
And I think that there's a lotof people that fall into this
trap when they start signing upfor long, longer races as well,
like half marathons andmarathons.
A lot of people like you.
Sign up for the, like that firstrace to lose weight, right?
They're like, I need to loseweight, so I need something to
keep me motivated.
If I sign up for this race, thenI will have something on the
calendar that will make me goout and do the thing.
(16:01):
And so what they do is they aretrying to train for a longer
race, make their body dosomething harder than they've
ever done before.
And restricting their foodbecause they think they're still
in that calorie mentality,right?
Of this is gonna be great.
I'm just gonna keep eating thesame amount or even less.
And then running more.
I'm gonna be burning like athousand extra calories a day.
(16:21):
I'm gonna be putting myself in ahuge deficit, and that's gonna
lead me to the body that I want.
And in reality, it needs tocomplete, burnout and failure
because you're not giving yourbody what it needs.
And like you said.
Your body's always going tostimulate you to get what you
need.
And a lot of people do end upbinging and eating a lot and
they're like, I just don'tunderstand why I have all of
(16:42):
these sugar cravings.
This is so weird.
It's be, and I'm, I tell themit's because you're not giving
your body what it actuallyneeds.
And so it, it's going to giveyou those cravings for that fast
sugar in order to get into yourbloodstream to try to satisfy
some of the deficits that youare creating.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Kelly (17:00):
And we talked about.
This when you were on my podcastand oh my gosh, that was such an
incredible conversation.
But even I'll, this was probablylike at this point like a month
or two ago, but I was at the gymand it was just like one of
those days I had a crazymorning.
I didn't get to eat.
I was doing back squats and Iwas like.
My head was foggy, I wasexhausted, my numbers were like
(17:22):
really low.
And then a week later I hadbreakfast.
I went to the gym to do the sameback squats.
I was able to add 25 morepounds.
Yeah.
Do multiple more reps.
And I just felt so much morefueled and energized.
And just so much better.
And it's oh, what's thedifference?
very, like I, I ate, I hadcarbs, I had fat, I had protein
(17:45):
before.
I did that strenuous exercise.
And I'm sure it's very similarwith running.
Angie (17:50):
Absolutely.
And I think that when we underfuel, when we don't give our
body what we need because we'rerestricting it, whether or not
you're restricting, because Ithink that some people do it
unconsciously.
some people restrict on purposebecause they want to lose
weight.
They wanna lose fat.
And then I think that there'sother people that just don't
realize how much extra they needto eat, especially if they're
(18:10):
training for a longer race, likea half or a full, there's a,
it's a significant amount, likeyou have to eat a lot more food
to keep your body fueled,especially like you were saying
before and after.
Like your body needs that fuelright away.
it needs the fuel to go out torun and then also needs to
refuel right afterwards.
And when we're restricting orwe're not refueling that tank,
(18:31):
it's going to just.
It messes with our hormones,basically like the science
behind it, right?
Is that it messes with ourhormones and your body's going
to be hungrier throughout theday.
Kelly (18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
You're literally like trying toget gas from an empty tank.
100%.
so that's like the restrictionside of it.
Yeah.
And then the two other umbrellasthat we really dive into is,
it's emotionally driven.
It is, you are, whether it's,you are trying to like cope, get
comfort, you're trying to numb,avoid.
(19:02):
not look at something.
Because what happens is when wehave really uncomfortable
feelings, thoughts, or emotions,they almost like bubble up in
our body, right?
And so many of us were taught.
Walk it off, don't talk aboutit.
Shut up and smile.
and a lot of us don't know howto name process, but most
importantly deal with ouremotions without letting them
like completely take over,right?
(19:24):
So what happens is we don't wantto feel these feelings.
So what do we do?
We shovel it down with food.
It is easier for our brain tonotice something tangible.
So what I mean by that is likerather than, okay, why?
What were you feeling?
What's going on in your body?
what's the emotion?
Rather than dealing with that.
(19:45):
'cause nobody wants to talkabout that stuff, wants to look
at that.
Your brain would much rathersay, wow.
you know you're a failure yetagain.
You just ate 14 cookies when youweren't supposed to because that
is something you can actuallysee, feel, and like derive guilt
from, rather than looking atwhat's going on underneath.
(20:05):
So if you are someone whostruggles with emotionally
eating, or you notice you eatwhen you're lonely or sad or
anxious, or you like eat atnight when the house is asleep
or whatever it is.
The one thing I'm gonna say is.
A great starting point is tojust take a step back and if you
aren't hungry, ask yourself,okay, what is it that I want
food to give me right now?
(20:27):
Because usually it's comfort,happiness, joy, peace.
Getting rid of feelings ofloneliness, like I said before.
But we have to realize that foodis not going to give us any of
that.
Yes, it will as we're eating,like for those first couple
minutes, but then as soon aswe're done.
We still have the same stress ontop of the guilt of everything
(20:47):
that just happened.
So it's more coming at yourselfwith curiosity rather than
anger, shame, and judgment,because those are the biggest
emotions that drive binging.
So you eat, you hate yourself,you're pissed at yourself,
you're ashamed.
Guess.
You're just going to keep eatingbecause the next question is why
am I even bothering?
Screw it, I'll just start overtomorrow.
(21:08):
I already screwed up.
Because so many of us whostruggle with a not great
relationship with food, we livein that all or nothing
mentality.
If I'm gonna be bad, then I'mgonna be really bad.
Angie (21:20):
Yeah.
and it's also.
Yeah.
I think it's also like yourbrain wanting to find evidence
for why you feel this way too.
Like what, going back to whatyou were saying about you have
some sort of like guilt or angeror shame or something, and
instead of digging in and tryingto actually find the root cause
of that, you're like, let mejust eat and now I can be upset
at myself for eating.
(21:41):
it's like this feedback loopthat you're giving your brain
evidence for why this.
Why you deserve to feel this wayor why you feel this way, so you
don't have to dig into some ofthe more uncomfortable stuff
correct and the uncomfortablestuff.
Guess what?
It stays there.
Kelly (21:54):
So nothing ever.
gets changed.
Yeah.
And yes, we've tried, as Imentioned, the diets, the keto,
the noom, the Weight Watchers,whatever it is.
Yeah.
But again, that's nothing morethan a bandaid.
Yep.
Because yes, we may start offlosing weight, but then
especially if you are an athleteand you're a runner, you are.
Getting injured, you're burningout, you're not fueling
(22:14):
yourself, you're bing.
So it's extremely, it's in thislike cycle that we just go round
and around in.
Angie (22:20):
Yeah.
And the other thing I want topoint out too is yes there are
these uncomfortable emotionslike guilt and shame and all
these other things, but a lot ofpeople that I've talked to also
just eat out of boredom.
Because they don't, nothing elseto do and like they don't
realize that is emotionaleating.
Bored, like boredom is a feelingthat you're trying to just fill,
and so you fill that with food.
Kelly (22:41):
Yes.
Angie (22:41):
And I
Kelly (22:42):
love that you said that because a lot of people say I
eat when I'm bored because I am.
I'm on the east coast.
I am near New York.
go.
Hustle, hustle.
People struggle to be bored,people struggle to rest.
Yes.
We always think that we have togo.
Must be productive.
And even if we're deciding torest, The only thing that's
going on our mind is just likethe scroll of the to-do list.
(23:04):
I shouldn't be doing this.
I have to do X, y, z, blah,blah, blah.
And
Angie (23:07):
Yep.
Kelly (23:08):
Again, we get those feelings of being bored and not
being comfortable.
It is Okay.
To be bored, to have nothing todo to rest and be okay with it.
And the more you fight it, thenwe look for food.
Yep.
Yeah.
Bored is such a big one.
Angie (23:25):
Yeah.
And it's so hard.
And I think that's what'sleading to more I'm even
noticing it in myself, like withthe phones, like with the
scrolling and things like that.
'cause like I'm not binging onfood, but I'm my.
Thumb is binging with these damnlittle TikTok, not tiktoks, but
the reels.
I don't really go on TikTok asmuch'cause I'm old, but you save
yourself.
It's totally, it's fine.
(23:45):
But it's that, it's those likesmall hits of dopamine that are
totally, keeping us in thesehabits that like, I'm literally
sitting there I should not bedoing this.
Why am I doing this right now?
And I feel like that's the samefeedback loop that's happening
when it comes to eating.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Kelly (23:59):
And Angela,
Angie (23:59):
I
Kelly (23:59):
have I have an app actually that.
It's like you figure out whattimes you don't wanna go on
social.
'cause like you use the screentime on Apple and it's dismiss
for today.
Yeah.
I have never not pressed thedismiss button.
Yeah.
So this, I have on the highestlevel I can't even get in.
there is no.
Why So I actually like it'causeit forced me to not
Angie (24:22):
do that.
Kelly (24:22):
So Yeah.
It
Angie (24:22):
locks you out.
very similar.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
All right.
What's the third reason that webinge?
Oh yeah,
Kelly (24:28):
absolutely.
So we talked about restrictiondriven, emotionally driven, and
then the next one is habitdriven.
So I feel like looking back,once I started like picking it
up, the, it did also become ahabit.
And if you are sitting therelistening, you're like, okay, I
do all three.
Believe me, they are allintertwined with each other.
Again, it's not black and whitewhere it's I do it because
restriction.
(24:49):
I do it because it's a habit.
But what happens?
So for example, when I think oflike a habit driven, I think
like people who eat at night,right?
person who has young kids orwhatever, they clean the
kitchen, they put the kids tobed, they sit on the couch and
immediately it.
Reality TV and ice cream orchips or whatever, and yes, that
can start from restriction.
(25:10):
Because if you're not eatingenough, you are going to be
hungry and hangry and all thosewonderful things at night.
That habit also comes fromcontinuously having that cue of
kids are asleep.
I'm seeing this as like finallyI can just sit down and relax.
And as a mom, I know thatfeeling, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
As you do too.
And then it's like the habit ofcouch relaxation tv, those are
(25:33):
your cues.
And immediately You want thatreward of eating.
Yep.
If you're noticing, it hasbecome a habit over time.
I think one of the things, ifyou're, if you use food as a
form of self-care, we have torecognize, we have to have
different forms of self-careduring the day.
Because if you are not likefeeling happy or enjoying what
you're doing or having a littleme time, of course when you
(25:56):
start eating, if that's the onlything that's truly making you
happy, you're not gonna be,wanna be able to stop.
Who would, so really findinglike little pockets of time.
And it doesn't need to be thishuge, spend a ton of money, go
get like$150 massage, Go sitoutside on your porch for 10
minutes.
Call somebody you love.
Just these little tiny things.
for me, my, I love taking likehot showers to the point my skin
(26:18):
borderline melts off.
that's my thing at night.
It calms me down.
I get in my pajamas, but thenlike in the morning, I make sure
that I have a really nice likeiced coffee where I'm either.
Sitting outside or catching upon sports radio.
'cause I love sports and it'slike the kids are in daycare,
it's my time.
(26:38):
But if I didn't have those twothings, if the only thing that
was making me happy was cookies,guess what?
I would constantly be eatingcookies.
Yeah.
So that's one.
And then another thing is tochange your cue.
So if you're someone sitting onthe couch, you immediately want
to eat.
Then maybe it can be as simpleas one go to bed.
Two watch TV in a just as simpleas going into a different room,
(27:02):
right?
and while obviously it's alittle bit more nuanced than
that, those can be really goodstarting points.
If we're noticing it's becominga habit.
Angie (27:10):
Yeah, because we are creatures of habit.
Absolutely.
And the location alone is oneof, that can be a trigger for
people.
Kelly (27:17):
100%.
And our brain likes to beefficient, right?
Yes.
it wants to move as quickly aspossible.
It likes its routine.
So guess what?
Goodnight kids.
Close the door, go downstairs.
Routine.
Bravo for me.
Put bravo on the couch and theneating.
So it's just immediately likeswitching things up a little
bit.
(27:38):
Yeah.
To not have that cue go off andthe alarm bells go off where
it's oh, time to eat.
Angie (27:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we can change some of thosehabitual things that might
trigger that.
The, the habit of binge eatingessentially.
What are some other simplethings that we can do to start
to rewire some of these thoughtpatterns around food and body
image and restriction?
I know that's a huge topic and ahuge question, but like, where
(28:06):
do we start with all of this?
if you know that you'resuffering with binge eating,
like where, like what would youtell me to do if I am coming to
you with this problem?
Kelly (28:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a ton of things,but I, the one thing I really
People to start with is practicenoticing when you fall into the
all or nothing mentality.
Because what happens really witha lot of people when it comes to
eating is like you start to eatwhether it's okay, and I always
use cookies.
I really need to have morevariety in my food cookie.
I
Angie (28:33):
mean, who wouldn't use cookies?
I feel like I know right?
Cookies is the right way to dothis, right?
You
Kelly (28:37):
have one or two cookies you are like, oh, I shouldn't
have done that.
I'm being bad.
And immediately you're like,okay, I'm gonna start over
tomorrow.
your brain says if I'm gonnastart over tomorrow, yeah.
You better guess I'm getting myfreaking money's worth right
now.
And immediately you're going toeat all of them because you
almost gave yourself like a timelimit on when you can have these
(28:58):
cookies.
Angie (28:59):
Yeah.
Your
Kelly (28:59):
brain doesn't know that You can actually drive to the
store and go get more cookiestomorrow.
Because you're telling yourselfyou can't, so your brain thinks,
oh, all the cookies in the worldare gone.
So something so simple aschanging your thoughts around
food in the simple sense of, Ican have this food any time I
want, so let's change it up.
(29:19):
Let's think of pizza, right?
If I am, pizza was always like abig thing for me.
Something I always struggledwith.
If I'm having pizza.
With my family on a Saturdaynight, right?
And immediately like I'm feelingfull.
I don't know if I should keepgoing.
The guilt starts creep creepingin.
I can feel my all or nothingmentality, just recognizing, oh
wait, I can actually have pizzatomorrow.
I can also, if I really wantedto wake up Monday, drive first
(29:41):
thing when I get up and go getsome.
And.
When you recognize the abundanceof food around you, it loses
that, oh my gosh, I must eateverything now mentality.
So that's one of the things Iwould start with.
I think the second one is justreally become aware of the way
you're speaking.
And I'm obviously, we putourselves like we are our own
(30:03):
worst critics.
It's, it is terrible how wespeak to each other.
So recognizing that.
And coming at it with more of aneutral stance, right?
I what?
Nothing drives me more crazywhen people say oh, you just
love your body and bodypositivity.
I think 24 7 body positivity ishonestly like complete garbage.
I'm with you on that for sure.
(30:24):
come on.
And for the
Angie (30:25):
roots of it are good, but the way that it's implemented is
not the idea's.
Good.
Yeah.
Is
Kelly (30:29):
anyone walking around loving themselves 24 7?
No.
Something so simple as I may notlove how I look today.
But I deserve self-respect.
I deserve to treat myself withkindness and how I just start
like looking around.
And how many times do you sayI'm being so bad today.
Oh, I have to be good today.
Oh, I messed up.
(30:51):
I want you to recognize thepressure language that you're
putting on yourself.
So what I mean by that is like.
The pressure if oh, I'm beinggood today.
You are putting pressure onyourself to continue being good,
and you're gonna get to a pointwhere it's either restriction or
somebody pisses you off orsomeone cuts you off in traffic
and you can't take it anymore.
Yeah.
So you fall off the deep end.
(31:12):
Or we say oh, I'm being badtoday.
Let's eat.
Let's get margaritas.
Yeah.
I'm being bad.
Yeah.
Or the cheat meal.
Yeah.
yeah.
If I'm gonna be bad, guess what?
If I have to be good tomorrow,I'm gonna be really bad today.
Just noticing when we're talkingin very extremes and practice
neutrality.
again, we could go, there's somuch more, but the mo, like in
(31:33):
the beginning you have to startbeing aware Yeah.
Of the way you're thinking andthe way you're acting.
And we don't realize how much wewaffle between both end of the
extremes.
And the way we think and the waywe speak.
It's not about the food that,that is driving us.
To have these eating patternsthat we do.
Angie (31:52):
Yeah.
You mentioned the all or nothingmentality in there quite a few
times.
Oh yeah.
Do you think that is really likeone of the biggest core drivers
of all of this?
Kelly (32:01):
I think a lot of people who struggle with binging and
emotional eating, they areoverachievers, right?
Type a hardworking, and that isif you look at your life Usually
you'll see the all or nothingmentality In, in, in different
facets of your life.
Yeah.
I bet that makes
Angie (32:21):
it so much harder too, right?
Because you've been sosuccessful in other areas and
you're like, why can't I figurethis area out?
Kelly (32:29):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
Like it's the career, it's thefamily.
It's the friend, it's the home.
It's the beautiful like lawn inyour front yard.
It's like, why don't I know howto eat?
And it's because you areoverachieving, perfectionist.
I have to do everything right.
I have to be perfect.
And the zero moderation.
Angie (32:49):
When
Kelly (32:49):
you aren't capable of having moderation.
You're gonna go off the deep endwhen it comes to having that one
cookie or going to that barbecueor going to vacation, or with
runners too, it's okay, I justhad this, so I need to go run 5,
6, 7 miles, whatever it is.
That is the all or nothingmentality and action.
And we don't even realize it.
Angie (33:09):
Absolutely.
A lot of people in our audienceare in midlife, and I know
you're not there yet.
you're still in that wonderfulyoung baby having life part of
your life, which is great.
But one of the big things thatwomen start to see in
perimenopause and menopause arethese hormonal shifts and
changes in their way, in the waythat their body holds on to
(33:30):
weight.
And a lot of times.
Women that maybe had an okayrelationship with their body and
exercise and food, now all of asudden they're doing these
things and that used to work,and all of a sudden their body's
not responding the same andtheir body's holding onto
weight.
And so many women fall back intothose old patterns of
(33:51):
restriction and let me just domore, let me just push harder
that we've been conditionedwith.
So what would you say to kind ofthose women that had.
a healthier relationship withtheir body and with food, maybe
this midlife period that we'regoing through, how can that.
Maybe be an opportunity tocreate a healthier relationship
(34:13):
with food moving forward.
Kelly (34:14):
Yeah, I love that.
And while I am not there yet,many, in my community, we have
like thousands of members,right?
I have people in their forties,fifties, sixties, seventies
Yeah.
Who no longer binge.
And I think one of.
Biggest things is that we focuson is our hunger and fullness,
right?
Sometimes it comes down to, sosimply learning how your body
(34:36):
feels when it's hungry, andlearning how it feels when it's
full, and practicing eating andnot eating.
Be like in between those two andobviously.
If you've struggled for a while,you're like, I don't even know
how to tell when we feel full.
It does take time.
It does take patience.
But also too, making sure thatyour meals are balanced.
(34:56):
Making sure we're havingprotein.
Yeah.
Realizing that carbs are not theenemy and so many people, like
I, I'll never forget, we haveone woman in our community.
She's going through menopauseand she ended up losing like.
55 pounds and no longer binging.
And she was like, it's becauselike I learned how to fuel my
body without punishing it.
(35:18):
Yes.
And she would make sure that shehad carbs with every meal, fat
and protein.
But when you're focusing on yourhunger fullness, you can
actually balance your bloodsugar a lot easier rather than.
Freezing and snacking and Andthe, not eating for six or seven
hours, which puts your bloodsugar completely out of whack.
Angie (35:35):
exactly.
And it's so interesting thoughtoo.
and this kind of goes back toour emotional relationship with
food, because when people comeinto, my world, which I'm sure
is like very similar to the onespeople in yours, and you're
actually talking to them about.
Nourishing their body andfueling their body and giving
their body what they need.
A lot of women get scared, likethere's genuine fear that comes
(35:58):
up.
Like I literally am telling you,eat more.
And they're like, but what if Igain weight?
Like they're afraid to eat more.
And it is a real fear.
Kelly (36:07):
It is such a real fear.
Yeah.
And
Angie (36:09):
sometimes
Kelly (36:10):
the sounds, so sometimes I need to like just.
Put up a mirror for them and Iwill ask them like Is what
you've been doing?
Has that worked?
Yeah.
A lot of people, it's like, if Igive up tracking Calorie
counting macros Yep.
Then I will never stop eating.
Yep.
It's no, your, I don't wannawait to say the word, like your
psychotic and your obsessionwith those numbers Are the
(36:33):
things that have led you to dothat.
and it's so funny you say thatthis fear and what we actually
like to do is literally likehabitation, like exposure
therapy, right?
Yeah.
And letting people when they'rehungry, actually allow
themselves to eat what theywant, right?
Let's say you want.
Pizza for lunch.
And or chicken cutlet sandwich.
(36:54):
But of course you're getting thegrilled chicken salad.
What if you know you're hungry,you sit down for lunch, you get
the two slices of pizza, youallow yourself to have it
without guilt.
And you are able to have theprocess of learning to listen to
your body when you're full.
Incredible things are gonnahappen.
One, you are going to mostlikely eat less because you're
(37:14):
able to recognize when you'refull.
You are not feeling guilty, soyou're not eating more because
you're fully allowing yourselfto have it.
And then between that meal andwhenever your next one is, you
are actually not thinking aboutfood because you gave your brain
the mental satisfaction ratherthan Forcing a grilled chicken
salad and then looking aroundall day for more food.
(37:34):
Because your brain's okay, thatsucked.
That's not what I want.
I wanna keep eating.
Yeah.
So when you put yourself inthose experiences, it's almost
like you may have that fearuntil you actually see the
process like unfolding right infront of you.
Angie (37:49):
Yeah.
when women in my world.
express that to me.
I do something similar.
I basically say, okay, exactlywhat you said, has it been
working right?
Like with what you've beendoing, has it been working?
And then I get them to commit toa time period.
I say, okay, what if we just trythis for two weeks?
What if we just try this for amonth and just see how you feel?
You can always go back to theway that you were doing things
(38:11):
if you want to.
But let's just.
Commit to a time period whereyou're going to try to, connect
to your body, actually fuelyourself, allow yourself to have
different things and see how youfeel afterwards.
Because once women start toallow themselves and give
themselves that permission,they're never going back.
Kelly (38:28):
Yeah.
it's such, it's a, it's such a,like a completely different
ballgame and you're like, yeah.
I cannot believe.
And now, like I'm sure youmembers YouTube, they love just
like pointing out diet cultureor like secretly laughing when
their friends are just likecommiserating how much they hate
themselves.
And it's everywhere.
And you start to notice, you'relike, wow, I've actually been
brainwashed for a very longtime.
Angie (38:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really wild when you lookaround and see how prevalent it
is in so many aspects of ourculture that we don't even
realize.
Kelly (38:59):
Yeah, and it's funny, like I am obviously, as I'm
pregnant right now.
I'm around like 19, 20 ishweeks.
And I've gotten a lot of dms ofokay, how are you gonna lose the
baby weight?
How are you eating?
How are you?
And I'm like, this is my thirdkid.
I'm just going to continue toinstill the tools that I teach
every day and learn how to fuelmy body and listen to my hunger
(39:20):
fullness.
And.
I will go back to feeling mybest because I'm not going to be
killing myself in the gym,tracking every single macro or
whatever it may be.
And people are like, wait, what?
Angie (39:33):
Wait a second, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Imagine you actually like yourbody and take care of it.
Kelly (39:38):
I know, right?
Angie (39:38):
A totally different world.
Kelly, this, conversation hasbeen so enlightening.
Before we wrap up, is thereanything else that you would
like to leave our listenerswith?
Kelly (39:47):
Yeah.
I think no matter like what youare struggling with or how old
you are or how long you've hadskin in the game of like binging
or a terrible relationship withfood, you can 100% change.
And a lot of people think youneed, the.
Therapists and the new mealplans and the whatever.
(40:08):
And while those are all well andgood, change starts from within
and it is 100% possible tochange.
A lot of people feel like we'vebeen doomed, or this is just how
it is, or we're always gonna belike this, but There is a ripple
effect to when you change andwhen you heal your relationship
with food, when you heal, yourrelationship with exercise, the
(40:29):
ripple effect of the otheraspects of your life that
improve as well as the peopleyou love.
Angie (40:35):
Yeah.
So
Kelly (40:36):
I just want you to recognize that no matter where
you are, you can change.
Even if you feel like there isno way out right now.
Angie (40:44):
Absolutely.
And I think that really allstarts with trust by the sounds
of it, right?
learning how to trust your body.
Again, learning how to trustyourself around food because I
think that so many of us havebeen conditioned not to trust
ourselves.
We've been given these foodrules.
And you've been taught no.
Even if you're hungry, don'teat.
(41:05):
Because then you're gonna goover your set amount of calories
for the day.
And so we've been taught to nottrust ourselves, do that.
Oh my gosh.
I love how you're like, what's
Kelly (41:13):
the last thing?
I'm like, okay, I know it'sokay.
It's okay.
Angie (41:15):
This is what happens.
Sometimes we're all like, yes.
Kelly (41:18):
And then I just opened up a huge topic.
Yeah.
So we're gonna talk for anotherhour and a half.
Yeah.
no, but I, when it comes to thetrust, like I like to remind
people like.
Look around and whether you area parent or a caregiver or
children or you're a teacher,you like saw kids at the mall
the other day.
I like, have you ever seen kidshave one bite of pizza and then
(41:39):
put the pizza down?
Or get ice cream and have thefirst scoop and be like, okay,
mommy, I'm done.
Or Yeah, no thanks.
I'm not hungry.
I'll never forget when I wasbinging.
I was like, how is my 6-year-oldniece just like stopping eating
with this pizza?
I want you to recognize that youhad that as well.
You had those cues and they havenever gone away.
They have not gone anywhere.
(42:00):
What happens is that volume inyour body of that self-trust,
that discernment, that beingable to listen to your cues, it
got smaller and that volume gotturned down due to diet culture.
People commenting on.
you getting seconds, yourweight, aren't you supposed to
run that off or, just anyexperience that you had growing
(42:22):
up around food in your body.
I want you to walk away withknowing that those cues and that
discernment and that trust inyourself is still inside of you.
yeah.
I love what you said abouttrusting your body.
Yeah.
It's the only thing, like itdrives me crazy.
People are the first to shametheir bodies, pinch their fat,
put it down.
(42:43):
And berate it.
And it's this is the only thingkeeping you here.
Yeah.
This is literally the only thingkeeping you
Angie (42:49):
here.
Yeah.
But people do with running too,I think that's why these things
are so intertwined because.
You've been taught to ignorewhat your body's trying to tell
you in running too.
And this is the other thingwhere I try to tell help people.
I'm like, no.
that means you need to slowdown.
when you feel that way, you needto slow down.
But they've been taught, no, Ijust have to keep pushing
harder.
That means I'm doing it right.
because they have this, no pain,no gain mentality.
(43:12):
there's all of these different,mentalities and things that
we've been taught throughout theyears that maybe apply.
to one situation, but don'tapply well to others.
And then we take'em and we apply'em to everything.
all or nothing.
No pain, no gain.
Yeah.
Can be helpful sometimes, right?
Like these, it's not like thosethings are always bad.
They can be helpful at sometimeswe just, yeah.
Have to be careful how we applythem.
(43:34):
A hundred
Kelly (43:34):
percent.
I love it.
Angie (43:36):
Awesome.
Kelly, thank you so much forthis.
Let our listeners know where canthey find you if they wanna
learn more and connect with you.
Kelly (43:42):
Yeah, of course.
So you can find me on Instagram,Kelly l Wellness and my podcast,
which.
Dr.
Angie was on as well, and it wasa thing, the Food Freedom
Society podcast.
But yeah, send me a dm, let usknow what you liked and what
your takeaway was with thisepisode.
And Angie, thank you so much forhaving me.
It's always so much fun hangingwith you.
Angie (44:00):
Absolutely.
And of course, we'll put all ofthose links in the show notes.
So if you guys wanna connectwith Kelly, check out the show
notes and send her a DM today.
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