431: The Science of Recovery: Episode 1

Most runners love the feeling of a good workout — that endorphin rush, the sweat, the sense of accomplishment. But here’s the truth: your body doesn’t get stronger during the run. It gets stronger during recovery.

In this episode, Angie and Kevin kick off a brand-new series on the science of recovery — because if you want to make progress, stay healthy, and actually feel good while running, recovery isn’t optional. It’s essential.

They break down what recovery really means, why it’s often overlooked, and how you can start getting it right. You’ll learn:

🏃‍♀️ How training stress (and life stress) affect your recovery — especially for women over 40
😴 Why quality sleep, protein, and proper fueling matter more than you think
⚖️ The difference between under-recovering and being “just tired”
💪 Simple, practical ways to support recovery — from active recovery runs to mindset shifts

If you’ve ever wondered why you’re feeling more fatigued, sore, or unmotivated despite consistent training, this episode is your guide to finding balance, rebuilding stronger, and running for the long haul.

🎧 Tune in to learn how to make recovery your secret weapon for performance, progress, and longevity in running — and life.

00:28 The Importance of Recovery in Training

05:26 The Science of Stress and Adaptation

09:10 Understanding the Stress and Adaptation Cycle

15:12 The Role of Recovery in Training

15:26 The Exhaustion Phase and Its Implications

19:45 Balancing Stress and Recovery

27:15 Signs of Stress and Under-Recovery

30:34 The Critical Role of Sleep in Recovery

32:34 The Importance of Sleep for Muscle Recovery

33:53 Strategies for Improving Sleep Quality

37:14 The Role of Hormones in Recovery for Women Over 40

39:34 Optimizing Protein Intake for Muscle Recovery

43:03 Recognizing Signs of Under-Recovery

47:07 Effective Recovery Strategies

Join the 30 Day Running Reset and get a plan that will help you build a strong and injury-proof body by combining running and strength training in a way that actually works for runners like you.

Gain access to my new secret podcast, Unbreakable: The Runner's Guide To Injury-Proofing Your Body After 40. Click here: https://www.realliferunners.com/secret

Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team

Thanks for Listening!!

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Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Episode Transcript

Angie (00:00):
This is the Real Life Runners podcast, episode number
431.
So often we think about and talkabout the miles, the workouts,
the training plans, but the realmagic of improvement doesn't
happen when you're running.
It actually happens.
So if you've ever felt likeyou're doing things right, but
you're still not improving, orthat your body feels more tired

(00:21):
now than it used to, even withthe same training, you are not
broken, you're just underrecovered, most likely.
And so today we're actuallystarting a series all about
recovery, about the science ofrecovery and adaptation to help
you make those miles moreeffective.
Because if you're not recoveringfrom the miles.

(00:42):
You're not gaining the benefitsof all of that hard work, and we
want to change that for you, sostay tuned.

(01:12):
What's up runners?
Welcome to the show.
Today we are starting a newseries.
Those of you that have beenlistening for a little bit the
last month or so, know that wejust wrapped up our series on
core values, which is a fun onefor us to record.

Kevin (01:26):
Yeah, now we're bringing on more series.
It's just, it's a series.
Spectacular.
I like

Angie (01:29):
it.
I like it.
because for us, it's one ofthose things running a podcast
for eight years, which, we justcelebrated our eight year
podcast anniversary, which wassuper cool.
And thank you so much to all ofyou that participated in our
giveaway and our podcastcelebration.
Everyone that left us a reviewor shared the podcast with a

(01:50):
friend or on social media, wereally appreciate it.
Thank you so much for helping usto get the podcast out to more
listeners because our goal.
With this free podcast is toreach as many people as possible
and help as many runners aspossible with good scientific
based, evidence-basedinformation for free.
And we need your help.

(02:11):
So the, even though oursweepstakes are giveaway is
over, the sharing of the podcastand the promoting of the pod
podcast never stops.
So if you haven't yet, we wouldlove for you to leave us a
review.
On Apple Podcasts or on Spotify.
Spotify, you can only leave astar review, which is great.
If you can leave us a rating onthere.

(02:32):
And on Spotify you can actuallycomment on individual episodes.
So if there was a specificepisode that really spoke to
you, it would be awesome if youcould leave a comment under that
episode as well.
and if you wanna leave us areview, apple Podcasts really
uses those reviews to help pushthe podcast out so that more
people can find it.
So anything that you can do tohelp us would.
Would be so appreciated, andthank you so much for all of you

(02:53):
that have already done that.
After eight years of podcasting,there's not many topics that we
haven't covered, right?
So it's one of those things thatevery week on the podcast, we
think about, okay, what do wewant to talk about this week?
What's new in the running world?
What can.
What is, what are we seeing withour clients and the people
inside the Real Life Runnerscoaching program and inside the

(03:16):
team?
what are people struggling with?
What are we seeing in socialmedia and the world of running
and what, how can we take thosethings and.
Put it into an episode that isgoing to be helpful for people.
And so that's where this idea ofthe series came from because it
helps to direct our focus alsoin a way.
And it makes us, makes it alittle bit easier for us to

(03:38):
figure out what we're gonna betalking about every week.

Kevin (03:41):
it's like making dinner, you know it.
You have to make dinner everysingle night and it's always
Hey, what do you have wanna havefor dinner tonight?
And when the world

Angie (03:47):
Tuesdays are tacos,

Kevin (03:48):
yeah.
But when the world is everythingyou could possibly eat, it gets.
Sometimes tricky.
And when it's we have thisprotein option in the fridge, at
least it narrows it down alittle bit.
Yeah.
So we've got a, we've got seriesfor

Angie (03:59):
you.
How

Kevin (03:59):
are we cooking chicken tonight?
So how are we cooking?
Yeah, we've got ground meat.
We're gonna do something likethat tonight.
Yeah,

Angie (04:03):
exactly.
So this series that I, decidedon.
Creating for you guys is allabout the science of recovery,
and throughout the course ofthis series, we're gonna go
through lots of different, we'regonna talk about recovery, the
physiology and the sciencebehind it.
What's actually happening inyour body, why recovery is so
important.
And we're also going to go intoall of the different recovery

(04:25):
tools that are out there, likefoam rolling and ice baths and
saunas.
All the different things thatyou might be hearing about
compression sleeves andcompression boots and all these
things, and help you understandthe science behind them so that
you can make the best decisionfor you of, is this something
that I want to spend my time ormy money?
Doing and implementing in mytraining?

Kevin (04:47):
Yes.
is it worthwhile recovery tools?
'cause there are a lot ofrecovery tools, but some of them
are a little bit morecomplicated than others.
So is it worth your time andeffort?

Angie (04:55):
not just complicated, but effective also, like some of the
things out there sound cool andlook fancy.
What kind of benefit are theyactually giving you?
And is that benefit an actualphysiological benefit or is it
more of a placebo effect?
Is it more of a mental thing,which isn't bad either?
And I'm gonna definitely pointthat out as we go through this

(05:17):
series because if you get abenefit, you get a benefit.
And does it really matter ifthere's a physiological benefit
or if it's just a placeboeffect?
I would argue no, because ifyou're feeling better using it,
then.
Essentially that's a good thing.

Kevin (05:30):
A hundred percent.
And as we go through thisepisode, we'll cover why that is
actually a thing, becauserecovery is not always just a
physical issue.

Angie (05:37):
So let's first start by just getting into the science of
stress and adaptation.
what is actually happening inthe body when we work out?
why do we even work out in thefirst place?
because.
What you need to understand.
The main point that you want toknow is that training is a
stress on the body.
Training is actually breakingyour body down and recovery is

(06:01):
where the adaptation happens.
And if you've been listening fora while, you've heard us say
that plenty and plenty of times.
So there's actually a cycle.
That the body goes through.
And this was a concept that wasfirst introduced back in like
1950, called that generaladaptation syndrome.
And there's three stages thatyour body goes through with any
stress, including training.

(06:24):
So the first stage is the stressresponse.
So this happens during.
And immediately after training,and when you train, you are
activating your sympatheticnervous system.
That is your fight or flightresponse.
So when your sympathetic nervoussystem is activated, that
increases things like your heartrate, your breathing rate, your

(06:44):
adrenaline, cortisol.
All of these things increase andrise because think about it,
when you're running, your heartneeds to work harder in order to
pump the blood out to yourworking muscle.
So if you want to run longer.
Run faster.
Your heart has to be effectivewith that, and the sympathetic
response helps with that.
During training your musclesalso experience what are called

(07:08):
micro tears.
So this is when, especiallyduring strength training, like
this happens during running aswell.
Not as much, especially ifyou're taking it nice and easy
and doing a re rest or an easyrecovery run.
But on your harder trainingsessions and during your
strength training sessions, whatyou're doing is actually
creating little micro tears inthe muscle because then during

(07:31):
recovery, when those microtears.
Repair themselves.
That muscle actually getsstronger,

Kevin (07:38):
right?
And it happens during running aslong as you're running at a
point that pushes yourself.
The same way that when you'relifting you, like I could go in
there and do various liftingexercises that I'm comfortable
and familiar with and withreally low weight, right?
And I would feel no sorenessfrom it.
It's that soreness that suggeststhat you pushed your body and
created these micro tears.
You push too far, you get aninjury, but you push a little

(08:00):
bit, you get some soreness.
That soreness is.
Often connected to these littlemicro tears in running.
You get it a lot with if you'repushing hard or if you're
pushing downhill, because that,that definitely puts some stress
on the body, right?

Angie (08:12):
But.
A quick note about soreness isthat you don't have to be sore
in order to have an effectiveworkout.
That is one of those myths outthere in the running and workout
world is that a workout is noteffective unless I'm sore
afterwards, and that's a bunchof baloney.
You don't have to be sore andyou can still have a very

(08:32):
effective workout.

Kevin (08:33):
Yeah, no ex excellent point there.
'cause otherwise it's just, Igotta be sore all the time and
that is.
Definitely not a good way to, toprogress yourself

Angie (08:40):
or to live your life.
let's be real.
Do we really wanna be sore allthe time?
So during this stress phase,your muscles are experiencing
these micro tears.
You're also depleting yourglycogen store.
So glycogen is the stored formof glucose.
It is stored in your muscles andin your liver, and that is
helping to give your bodyenergy.

(09:00):
And during training sessions,especially harder training
sessions, that glycogen getsdepleted.
You empty out your glycogens.
stores and fatigue sets in,right?
If once you start to run out ofenergy, run out of fuel, just
like a car that runs outta gas,you start to get tired.
And during this phase, duringthis stress phase, you are
actually breaking down tissue.

(09:22):
You are not getting strongeryet.
And this is what so many peopledon't understand.
They think that the strengthtraining or the hard workouts
are what are making themstronger and.
In a way, yes, that is the firststep.
Like you have to go through thisstress step, this stress phase
in order to make your musclesstronger, but that's not

(09:43):
actually where the strength isbuilt.

Kevin (09:45):
Yeah, and it's really important that you highlight all
the different things, thesemicro tears, the loss of fuel
and this general sense offatigue because all of these
things then need to be addressedin the next phase where you
actually start making someadaptations to it.
So you have to put a stress ontoyour body.
It doesn't have to be anoverwhelming stress.
It simply has to be a stress onthe body.

(10:06):
And then you slide into theadaptation window where your
body actually begins to repairitself, where it actually
rebuilds.
And ideally, as long as you'vestressed appropriately and
you're going through therecovery that we're gonna
highlight here, then you rebuildand you rebuild stronger than
you were originally.
That is essentially the overall.

(10:27):
Point of training is to stressyour body so that it will build
back stronger if you just stressand build back exactly where you
got, there's never progress.
So the whole point of trainingis to be able to put a stress
onto your body so that itdecides it has to come back even
stronger than it started.

Angie (10:42):
Exactly.
And this is where.
What you do after trainingreally matters because after
you've given your body thisstress that has broken the body
down a bit, now you have to gointo this adaptation phase where
your protein synthesisincreases, so your body starts
to make new proteins from theamino acids that are floating

(11:02):
around in your body.
Those glycogen stores replenish.
How do they do that?
By you eating right.
That is one of the things likeyour body doesn't cannot just
replenish your glycogen stores.
You have to fuel, put food intoyour body in order to replenish
those glycogen stores, and thenyour parasympathetic nervous

(11:23):
system kicks in.
So remember, the stress responseis activating your sympathetic
nervous system that.
Fight or flight.
The parasympathetic nervoussystem is your rest and digest
mode.
And I like to call it like restand repair people, like rest and
digest because it rhymes andthat's actually what is
happening.
But as a runner, as an athlete,I like to think of it as rest

(11:43):
and repair as well.

Kevin (11:45):
Yeah, the digest is helpful because it does point
out that you actually need toput nutrients into your body and
you have to do it for a goodchunk of time.
so many people focus on whathappens in like the.
20 to 45 minutes rightafterwards, but they're coming
out with more studies that ifyou've pushed your body for like
an extended period of time thatyou need to keep refueling for

(12:06):
days and days afterwards.
Yeah.
Yep.
Like I, the study came off oflike an ultra marathon thing.
But they were like, you'restill, it's not that you're in a
calorie deficit, but you're basebaseline metabolism.
Is still higher than normal aweek later after a super
difficult workout,

Angie (12:21):
right?
And so if you give your body thetime and the nutrients that it
needs during this adaptationwindow, your body adapts to
handle more stress next time.
That's what we talk about whenwe say that you're getting
strong, you, your body buildsback stronger than it was
before.
So this is where you're.
Actually getting stronger,faster, more efficient is during

(12:44):
this adaptation window.
And I wanna just address whatKevin just brought up too,
because people talk a lot aboutthis adaptation window and they
wanna tell you that you have toget something in within 30 to 60
minutes after a workout in orderto optimize your adaptation
window.
And there's been research backand forth on this throughout the
years, over decades I shouldsay.

(13:05):
But.
Ultimately, there's not somemagic window of recovery.
With that being said, the sooneryou get fuel back into your
body, the quicker your body canswitch over from breakdown mode
and from sympathetic activation.
Into parasympathetic and repairmode.

(13:26):
So I do think it's a good ideafor you to get food in as
quickly as you can, as quicklyas you can tolerate.
Especially, I know there's a lotof people that don't like to eat
right away'cause they don't havethe appetite, but sometimes.
It's necessary that even ifyou're not hungry, it's still a
really good idea to refuel.
Get something into your bodysoon after exercise so that you

(13:47):
can help your body and yournervous system just switch modes
out of that sympathetic fight orflight.
And.
Into the parasympathetic restand digest.

Kevin (13:56):
So one of the reasons why it is often difficult for people
to eat right after they work outis because their body
temperature is elevated and anelevated core temperature
reduces your desire to eat it.
Like it lowers all of thedesires to eat.
So if you can do something thatcools you down, if you're like,
all right, I can't take inwhatever this fuel is, if you
can just.
Take in a small amount of icewater and you could put calories

(14:18):
in that just right off the bat,drinking is usually the easiest
way to get in calories.
Yeah.
But if you take in some coldliquid, even if it doesn't lower
your core temperature a lot,just whatever helps you start
feeling like you're cooler.
Yeah.
Will then make hunger.
easily more easily accessible.

Angie (14:33):
More easily accessible.
Yeah.
So that could include jumping inthe shower too, like taking a
lukewarm or colder shower.
You don't wanna jump into afreezing cold thing'cause you
don't wanna shock the systemlike that.
But here in Florida over thesummer, it is lovely after a run
to.
Just literally jump into thepool after a run because we are
so hot.
Core body temperatures are verymuch elevated when you jump in

(14:56):
the pool and it helps to bringyour core temperature down, I
should say my core temperaturedown.
Like it makes me feel so muchbetter so quickly too, just from
that change in core bodytemperature.
So I love that you gave themthat tip.
That is really how we want oursystems to be operating.
We stress and then we giveourselves the proper add, like
proper fuel and nutrients andrest and recovery so that our

(15:21):
body actually adapts and getsstronger.
Now there's a third phase calledthe exhaustion phase, and this
happens when you skip recoveryor when you skimp on recovery.
It's not just skipping recovery,but when you are under recovery,
not giving your body enoughrecovery.
So this happens when yourstress.
Continues without enough rest toactually allow your body to

(15:44):
adapt to what it just wentthrough.
And when this happens, thethings that are like going on in
your body, your cortisol levelsstay elevated.
That is your stress hormone.
This leads to, this can lead toan imbalance in other hormones
as well, because it's not justcortisol that is problematic.
Cortisol is not.
A problematic hormone in and ofitself.
We need cortisol.

(16:04):
Cortisol is released during thestress phase.
We want that stress.
Cortisol is a very good thing.
However, if it stays elevatedfor a long period of time,
chronically elevated cortisollevels, that's where it becomes
more problematic because.
Everything in your body workstogether.
So your cortisol levels affectother hormones in your body as
well, like your hunger hormones,which are ghrelin and leptin.

(16:28):
Leptin is like your satietyhormone, so those are affected
by cortisol.
It affects lots of differenthormones and processes in your
body.
And it can actually cause it ahormonal imbalance and also
weaken your immune systembecause your body is just in
this constant state of fight orflight.
So this shows up as fatigue,poor sleep, irritability,

(16:49):
injury, which obviously none ofus wants or plateau, right?
Just you not making progress andyou're just feeling tired and
sore all the time.
And the thing that I really wantyou to understand is that this
is so prominent, especially forwomen, People over 40, but
especially women over 40,because of the hormonal changes
that we are going through inperimenopause and menopause, it

(17:12):
can, this phase can hit usfaster because when we have less
estrogen on board, then.
All of this kind of takes longerjust to sum it up and make it
pretty simple.
Estrogen helps our body recoverquicker, and so when we're
losing estrogen, it takes longerfor our body to adapt and
recover because estrogen is amore anti-inflammatory hormone.

(17:33):
It can help with repair andrecovery, and when we don't have
it.
It's just gonna, it's more, itmakes our recovery choices even
more important, I think isreally the way we wanna think
about it.

Kevin (17:43):
Yeah.
So the exhaustion phase isinteresting'cause you pointed
out that it's not just skippinga recovery but skimp also.
It's not that there's a fixedset of this is the workout and
then this is the recovery.
And that's exactly what it is.
It's that depending on howstressful it was, you need to
have an appropriate amount ofrecovery for you.
And so the imbalance comes from.

(18:05):
Too much stress and maintainingyour same level of recovery or.
reducing your stress, but thenalso over reducing your
recovery.
oh, I didn't really have much ofa workout today, so I don't
really need to worry aboutrecovery.
Yeah.
there's always a time to betaking care of the recovery side
of the equation, even if thestress side is relatively low,
and if you ramp up the stressside, you have to drastically

(18:26):
ramp up the recovery site also,which I think is where a lot of
people get caught up on this oneis they're like, oh, I'm
recovering more.
But it's okay, but you reallyincrease.
The stress sites, you have todrastically increase the
recovery as well.

Angie (18:37):
Yeah, and this is one of the reasons why I haven't run a
marathon yet, because Iunderstand like there's the
training, but there's also therecovery and everything else
that goes into training for amarathon.
And I know with the life that Icurrently have with our girls
and all the other things that Ihave to deal with as a mom, as a

(18:57):
business owner, as a wife, Ijust don't have a lot of time
for.
Me to just lay around andrecover.
And so that's one of the biggestreasons I haven't done it
because, and this is one of the,I think one of the biggest
things that not a lot of peopletake into consideration.
They think about, oh, where canI fit my training in?
But they neglect to figure outwhen they can actually fit in

(19:18):
their recovery time and that.
Is actually, I don't wanna sayeven more important, but in a
way it is, right?
Because once you get thattraining in, if you're not
recovered, you're going to getinjured.
And if you're injured, thenyou're not gonna be able to
continue training and you're notgonna be able to run the
marathon or the ultra marathonor whatever it is that you want
to accomplish.
And the other thing that'sreally important to point out

(19:39):
here is that stress from otherareas of your life also play a
big role in how your body adaptsto your training.
Because stress is stress.
I like to think of it as abucket.
We have, everyone has one stressbucket because you have one body
and one brain that is handlingall of the stuff that's coming
at you every single day.

(20:00):
So we have physical stressors inour life.
We have emotional, we havepsychological, we have financial
stress, we have all sorts offamily stress going on.
Friends, there's so manydifferent.
Things that can cause stress inour lives and all of that stress
is going into the same bucket.
And so if your recovery is notmatching that stress, that is

(20:22):
the reason that you're notmaking the progress that you
want.

Kevin (20:25):
You've got a wonderful phrase here in the outline that
says you can't out train astressed out body.
And this is my biggest issuewith a whole lot of online
training plans is they, are mostof them quality training plans
on there are.
Effective.
They're good training plans.
Yeah.
The problem is that you can'tjust follow a training plan and

(20:46):
then ignore the recovery portionof the rest of it.
Like I checked all the boxes, Idid all of the workouts on the
training plan, unless thetraining plan has specific
recovery metrics on there, also,you can't just be like, I did
the training plan, so I'm goingto get the results.
Yeah.
The best training plan isn'tgonna work if it over stresses
you because you're underrecovered for it.

Angie (21:05):
Yeah, and I think that this is one thing that.
People often don't understand isthat there are some weeks.
Some days where it is actuallybetter for you to skip a workout
than to do the workout on yourplan because your body would
benefit more from the additionalrecovery than it would just
adding on an additional workout.

(21:27):
And that's really where youknow, coaches and having an
adaptive training plan, anadaptable training plan.
Is so important.
That's what you need.
Because stuff comes up, there'sall sorts of things that can
happen.
I know that like our liferecently has just been all sorts
of craziness and there's been alot of stress outside of, just

(21:48):
normal.
I shouldn't say normal, butabnormal life stress that has
been added on.
So one of the things that wehave been dealing with the past,
like month and a half.
I think I've already talkedabout this on the podcast, but
we lost our dog, September 1st.
And it was real, a reallytraumatic experience.
She unfortunately was hit by acar and so it was very sudden,

(22:11):
very traumatic.
And we've been grieving and justgoing through all sorts of
things with that.
And I've also been feeling likeI have a void that I needed to
fill.
And so the excitingannouncement, I actually just
posted it tonight on Instagram.
Made it Instagram official, Kev,oh, not Facebook official yet,
but, we just got a new dog andhe is wonderful so far.

(22:34):
He's, we've had him a coupledays now and, however, there's
a, an adaptation phase here.
there's a, there's definitely

Kevin (22:42):
a stress phase involved.

Angie (22:43):
There's a stress phase and there's an adaptation phase,
right?
There's going to be, it's goingto take time for him to adapt to
us, for us to adapt to him and.
That first night that he washere and we're like, I don't
know what his schedule's and hewoke up at five o'clock in the
morning and had to go to thebathroom.
And so there are things that I'mgoing to have to do that I'm not

(23:05):
really sure of, and that I don'treally have control over at this
point.
And so Tuesday mornings arenormally my speed work session.
I meet with my friends onTuesdays and.
Today I decided not to do thatbecause I didn't know how his
night was gonna go.
I didn't know if I was gonna beup with him trying to help him,
get him settled and help himadapt to what's going on.

(23:27):
And so I chose not to do speedwork with my friends this
morning.
Part of that was because of thelack of sleep that I had the day
before.
And the other part of it wasknowing that I could get my run
in later in the day, and it wasprobably going to be a better
choice for me to get some sleepin order to allow my body to
recover from.
The running and the strengthtraining that I've been doing
and the traveling and all theother things that I've been

(23:47):
doing recently as well becauseall of those things go into my
stress bucket and play a role.

Kevin (23:52):
Yes, there's a lot of things go that go into the
stress bucket.

Angie (23:54):
and this is the other thing too, is positive things
can go into your stress bucket,right?
there's not, stress is not justnegative.
There are very positive thingsand positive changes in your
life that still cause stress,and I think that's important for
us to recognize also.

Kevin (24:09):
anything that's a change, yeah.
Is inherently stressful.
Whether it's a positive changeor negative, anything that
creates change, your body's I'mnot sure what's going on.
And that naturally creates somesort of stressful thing.
Yeah.
Which then leads to recovery.
And recovery takes a whole lotof different.
Angles.
The recovery that most peoplethink of is, I've gotta make
sure that my body feels better.

(24:30):
People are worried about themuscular system recovering.
We're dealing with those microtears.
We were talking aboutreplenishing our glycogen
stores.
But recovery goes far beyond themuscular system, and that's why.
The recovery is much morecomplicated than, oh, I'll have
something to eat and I'll justtake a rest day or have an easy
day, and then I'll be allbetter.
That's not necessarily itbecause you also have to deal

(24:53):
with your nervous system andyour endocrine system.
You've got multiple things thathave to be taken care of and
just.
Having a snack is not going tonecessarily fix everything.
You've got your nervous system.
You've gotta actually flip itfrom your sympathetic go, go
into parasympathetic recoverymode.
You've gotta do something thatflips that switch so that your

(25:16):
body knows, alright.
I'm actually into recovery modebecause then that helps take
care of the endocrine systemthat is dealing with all sorts
of hormones going all over theplace and helps actually
regulate the rise and fall ofvarious hormones that help your
body say, alright, we're not infight or fight mode, we are in
recovery mode.
Let's get the hormones alignedto have actually allow our body

(25:39):
to recover.
Y

Angie (25:40):
Yes, agreed.
And all of that.
A good start is having a snack.
I know that you said it, it'snot just about having a snack,
which is true, but I feel likeyou just made it sound very
ominous in a way.
But Kevin's totally right, thereare multiple systems that need
to recover and, but that doesn'tmean that you have to do a
million things to recover, andthat's really what this series

(26:02):
is going to help you filter outas well, because.
Having a snack is going to helpyour muscular system, your
nervous system, and yourendocrine system, getting some
rest, going to bed early.
Getting your sleep is going tohelp all three of these systems.
We just have to think about it.
We have to be aware of thisbecause recovery isn't just

(26:23):
about the muscles.
It's about bringing your wholesystem back into balance.
Your body likes to be in a stateof homeostasis.
Who remembers Biology 1 0 1 fromhigh school?
Everybody knows the word homeo.
Basis.
That is that sense of balance inyour body.
And so many of us are living ourlives completely outta balance
because we are so stressed allthe time with all the things

(26:43):
that are going on that it'sreally hard for our bodies to
recover.
And so we have to be much moreintentional about giving our
body the recovery that it needsbecause it is our muscular
system, our nervous system, andour endocrine system.
So some signs that these systemsare still stressed.
Number one would be an elevatedresting heart rate.

(27:03):
So those of you that wear awatch or a ring, I know I like
to look at what my resting heartrate is, overnight.
So if your resting heart rate iselevated higher than it normally
is, or if you see a drop in yourHRV.
So if you have a fancier watchand you can measure your HRV, if
you notice your HRV is.
Decreasing.
That's also a sign that yourbody is still stressed out.

(27:25):
Other things, if that don't needany sort of fancy equipment, if
you're noticing that you're justmore moody or having more mood
swings or irritability, that canobvi obviously be complicated by
the hormonal changes that wewomen are going through in
perimenopause and menopausebecause those hormone changes.
Also can lead to these types ofsystem or symptoms.
And that is why that, if you areover training and under

(27:47):
recovering, you're putting yoursystem even more out of balance.
Because when you are morestressed out, the, your
estrogen, your progesterone, thestuff that you still do have on
board, if you are, premenopause.
Those are even more dysregulatedbecause of the changes or the
elevated, the chronic elevationof your cortisol levels.

(28:08):
if you're noticing that you arehaving heavy legs despite only
running easier, maybe youhaven't done a workout in a
while, but your legs just feelheavy on all your runs.
Or you're having trouble fallingasleep, staying asleep, or
you're just noticing an overalllack of motivation and you just
don't feel like going out foryour runs.
All of those could be signs thatyou're not getting enough
recovery and your body's stillstressed.

Kevin (28:29):
Alright, so I have a couple points on this.
One.
The combination of taking careof all of your systems while
making sure that sometimes justhaving a snack is beneficial.
If you finish your workout andyou have a snack, will you start
just mindlessly scrollingthrough, essentially doom
scrolling, mind scrolling some.
Mindlessly scrolling is,depending on what your feed is,
might actually help you justcalm down.

(28:51):
Yeah.
But if you've got a terriblefeed coming at you, it is not
necessarily going to help you.

Angie (28:56):
Like the news.

Kevin (28:57):
Yeah.
being like, oh, during myrecovery window I'll have a
snack and check all of thelatest headlines.

Angie (29:03):
Or if the stock market's having a bad day.

Kevin (29:05):
Yeah.
These are not things that aregoing to help you move out of
flight or fight.
So you think about things thatwould actually help you try to
fall asleep, news headlines,scrolling through your Instagram
feed, not necessarily thingsthat will help you drift off to
sleep.
They're also not great recoverytools.
And the other one that I wantedto cover is you mentioned the
elevated resting heart rate orHRV.

(29:25):
Sometimes after you dosomething.
Particularly difficult.
Your resting heart rate willactually drop the next day and
you're like, oh, look at me.
I'm totally gaining from thathard workout.
And then the day after it popsback up and you get a spike off
of this.
So sometimes you get thispreliminary dip in your resting
heart rate, like resting heartrate dips and HRV rises, and it

(29:47):
seems like you've gained thismassive benefit.
But it's just, it's hiding thenext day where it's gonna
reverse, and then you're gonnafeel like you're overtrained.
So sometimes those numbers canlie to you.
If you know you just did areally hard workout and you see
a dip in your resting heart ratethe next day, you're probably
really in need of some extrarecovery.

Angie (30:07):
Yeah.
So what can we do to start.
Recovering better.
The number one thing thateveryone needs to do is sleep.
You cannot train hard if you arenot getting enough sleep,
especially if you are over theage of 30 or 40 or 50 or 60, you

(30:28):
might have been able to get awaywith it in your twenties.
Or in your teens, but after theage of 30, 35, your body just
doesn't recover the way that itused to.
And obviously if you arelistening to this podcast and
you have a newborn or smallkids, you understand how you
feel with a lack of sleep.
And I know that you might belistening to this right now

(30:49):
thinking, how the heck am Isupposed to get more sleep?
I am not here to tell you allthe ways, but I am here to tell
you how important it is, okay?
Because 70 to 90% of your growthhormone is released during deep
sleep.
During sleep.
So if you are not getting enoughsleep, and if you are not
getting quality sleep, then youare missing out on a huge piece

(31:14):
of your recovery.
Sleep is critical.
It is one of these factors that.
Pretty much no matter what studyyou I have ever read that I am
aware of, I don't know ifthere's any out there that go
against this, but any study thatI'm aware of that has studied
sleep, regardless of what thevariable is like, whatever the
outcome they're looking at,whether they're looking at

(31:34):
performance, they're looking atoverall health, or they're
looking at blood sugar, they'relooking at so many different
variables.
Basically all of them show thatmore sleep improves that thing,
that outcome and less sleep, notenough sleep, decreases that
variable.
So there's a, there's obviouslya window and, or a range I

(31:56):
should say.
Of what is enough and what isadequate and what is too.
There's no such thing as toomuch sleep.
Let's be real.

Kevin (32:03):
Yeah.
But there's a point ofdiminishing returns.
Yes, exactly.
There's a point where it's ifyou're sleeping 10 hours, do you
really, are you getting anythingextra from sleep 12?
Are you getting an additional

Angie (32:10):
benefit?
exactly.
But sleep helps to drive mumuscle repair.
That is when your musclesactually.
Repair and rebuild and getstronger.
That is when your glycogenstarts to restore itself.
And of course, your brain shutsoff during sleep so you mentally
recover.
Your nervous system can recover,and when you are chronically

(32:31):
sleep de deprived, if you're notgetting enough sleep, this is
definitely going to lead toslower adaptation to your
training and a higher injuryrisk.

Kevin (32:41):
So maybe you're lucky like me, or at least I like to
sometimes think that my watch isnot just making stuff up when it
talks about my sleep.
If I've ever had a poor night'ssleep, the next time I, the next
night, I almost immediately justdip straight into deep sleep.
And it makes sense because it'sthe deep sleep where your body
releases.
The growth hormone and you getsome of these best benefits.

(33:02):
So if I'm ever really get a badnight's sleep or really get a
very short night's sleep thenext night when I fall asleep,
it is just, I'm immediatelybasically comatose.
It doesn't really matter what'shappening.
I am immediately straight intodeep sleep because my body knows
that it needs it.
And so that's where it goes.

Angie (33:18):
And you're very lucky in that re regard, like when I, if
my watch is accurate.
I feel like it's gotten a littlebit better maybe, but in
general, I don't have as muchdeep sleep as you.
I have a lot of REM sleep, andso I think that I am lacking in
that I could probably try somedifferent strategies to improve
my deep sleep, but what you wantto understand is that your bed

(33:38):
is your recovery window.
That is where you recover.
You can't hack your way out of.
For sleep.
This is the number one thingthat you need to work on.
If you are under recovering, youneed to make more time for
sleep.
You should be getting seven tonine hours of sleep per night,
and if you are a woman over 40,if you are in perimenopause or
post menopause, there's researchthat is starting to show that we

(34:00):
need even more.
We need more like eight to 10hours of sleep every night,
especially if you are an activewoman that needs muscle repair.
One of the things that's reallyhelpful here, and this is a
really good thing that all of uscan be doing, is to have a
consistent bedtime and waketime, regardless of whether it's
a weekday or a weekend.
And I know that's tough for alot of people.

(34:22):
There's a lot of people that arepretty good with bedtimes and
wake times during the weekbecause they've gotta go to
work, or they have more of aroutine and a schedule, and then
the weekend comes and who knows?
What their schedule looks like.
But giving your body aconsistent bedtime and wake time
does so many good things, notonly for your sleep quantity,
'cause you obviously know howmuch sleep you're going to get

(34:43):
if you have a consistent bedtimewake time, but also for your
sleep quality because your.
Body starts to know, and yourbody starts to expect, okay,
we're getting close to bedtime.
It's time for me to startwinding down, and it's going to
be easier for your body to thenshift into deep sleep mode once
you actually do go to bed.

Kevin (35:01):
Yeah.
I feel like as we continue thisseries, maybe some different
ideas of how to improve sleepquality could show up, but just
real quick, a fewer screens andcooler temperatures and a nice
dark room.
These are some big ones.
like a protein snack before yougo to bed to make sure that
you're not hungry at all.
Because trying to go to bed athungry is, is, I just heard a
podcast the other day thatdoctor suggested that trying to

(35:22):
go to bed hungry is the worstway that you could go to bed.
I feel like hot with all thelights on has gotta be, Put in a
fighting chance to be a terribleway to go to sleep.
but, cool the room down.
Make it dark and make sure thatyou're not hungry is some keys.

Angie (35:33):
Yeah.
And limiting the screen time.
I wanna point that out.
Again, I know you just said it,but I think that's one of the
things that a lot of us havegotten into the habit of, and I
know that's one thing that hasdrastically improved my sleep.
would you say the same for you?
Like us taking phones out of thebedroom has.
Drastically improved my sleep.
I know that.

Kevin (35:51):
when we had a great schedule and we could both read
for 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutesbefore we went to bed, that was
some of the best sleep that Ihad.
Yeah, we don't have that rangeright now.

Angie (35:58):
What do you mean?
We don't have that range?

Kevin (36:00):
right now, the sleep pattern that I'm on does not
include being able to read for10 minutes before I go to bed.

Angie (36:04):
maybe we need to change that, but yeah.
You've been busy with grading.
Did not get enough sleep lastnight for sure.
but limiting screens before bed,I would definitely invite you to
take your phones outta yourbedroom, take the TVs outta your
bedroom, make your bedroom aplace for sleep and rest and
relaxation and connection withyour partner.
that is what a bedroom.
I like, I shouldn't say sh, Idon't wanna say should be,'cause

(36:26):
I don't like using the wordshould, but that's what

Kevin (36:27):
it should be, I think.

Angie (36:29):
I think that's really the best way to do it.
okay, so sleep.
That there's, that is the numberone thing that I want you to
take away from this episode ishow important your sleep is for
recovery.
Now let's talk a little bitabout your recovery and your
hormones, especially if you're arunner over 40.
So if you are a woman, you haveestrogen in your body, and

(36:51):
during perimenopause we start tolose estrogen.
Our estrogen starts to decline,and estrogen helps to support
all sorts of things in recoveryin our body, like collagen
repair, blood flow, energymetabolism.
So as we lose estrogen.
Our recovery slows down.
Estrogen also has a regulatoryeffect on cortisol.

(37:12):
It helps keep our cortisollevels in check, and so as we
lose estrogen, cortisol can staymore elevated longer after
training or stress, and withoutthe proper fueling, bringing
that nutrition back in.
Women can easily deep dip intolow energy availability, meaning
that your body doesn't have theenergy that it needs, and that

(37:34):
can lead to hormonedysregulation.
It can lead to things likestress fractures, increased
injury risk, loss of period,which obviously if you're in
perimenopause or post menopause,you're already on your way
there, but.
It's important for you tounderstand that your body's not
falling apart.
Your physiology is justchanging.
Your hormones are changing, andthat's going to change the way

(37:55):
that your body recovers.
So you have to be much moreintentional with your recovery
strategy.
It's nothing you can't handle.
It's nothing that is soterrible.
It's just okay, your choicesmatter more.
Now.
We just have to be moreintentional with these choices.

Kevin (38:10):
You essentially are taking the bumpers off of outta
the lanes when you're bowling,right?
there's gutters and you couldslide off the lane when we were
younger it was a lot easier tolive a little bit more on the,
on the edges.
You could get away with reducedrecovery and be like, ah, I'll
just carry that reduced recoveryinto the next day.
I'll recover in a couple ofdays.
Like you could stack workoutscloser together.

(38:32):
You could get away with nothaving a good dinner the night
before and still get up andworkout the next day.
It's just that you have to payattention.
Yeah, a little bit more isreally the key.

Angie (38:41):
We have less wiggle room.
Yes.
That's really what it is, right?
Like we just have less wiggleroom and our choices affect us
more than they used to.
We used to have more of a bufferand essentially when we lose
estrogen, we lose our buffer andthat's really what is going on.
Things that you need to do.
Number one is to eat enoughprotein.
If you want your muscles torecover, you have to provide the

(39:02):
necessary building blocks formuscle and that.
Is protein.
So you should be aiming forabout one gram per pound of your
ideal body weight on a dailybasis.
So if that seems like, holycrap, that is way too much.
Like my ideal body weight is 130pounds.
That sounds so that would be 130grams of protein.

(39:23):
That sounds like way too muchprotein if that's, what's coming
to your head right now.
Start with a hundred grams orstart with.
More than what you're currentlyeating.

Kevin (39:32):
Yes.
I was about to say that ifyou're currently, you go through
and you check what you take induring the day.
If you're at 50 and Angie justsuggested that your ideal is a
hundred and something 30, 130,like whatever the number is,
move your 50 to 70, move it to80.
Don't move it to 130.
don't two and a half times it.
That's going to feeloverwhelming to you.

(39:54):
Yeah.
But find a way to increase it.
Yeah.
That's the key.

Angie (39:57):
So make your first goal to simply increase your protein,
make your second goal toconsistently get a hundred grams
of protein a day or more, right?
Like a hundred grams of protein.
I think that there's a lot ofsources out there that say one
gram per pound of ideal bodyweight, and that's a great thing
to shoot for.
I also think there's a lot ofpeople that have a hard time

(40:17):
with that, and so I think thatif you can get in a minimum of a
hundred grams of protein perday, you're doing pretty well.
And if you get to a hundred,it's going to be easier for you
to get to 120 or 130 becauseyou're gonna understand, oh,
okay, I just need to haveanother half a cup of cottage
cheese, or I just need to have.
This I can, oh, that's easyenough to throw in like another

(40:37):
ounce of chicken or somethinglike that.

Kevin (40:39):
Or more cottage cheese or at a mame or cottage

Angie (40:42):
cheese or fried cottage cheese or whipped cottage
cheese.
Or cottage cheese pizza.

Kevin (40:49):
You threw me with fried cottage cheese.
Is that a thing?

Angie (40:52):
I'm sure it is.
It's gotta be, I think,actually, I thought.
It's baked cottage cheese.
Actually, I'm, I think I haveseen somebody fry it.
Baked

Kevin (40:59):
cottage cheese.
Yeah,

Angie (41:00):
like people make cottage cheese chips.
Like I see all these recipesnow.
No veto.

Kevin (41:04):
No, we're not even gonna try that.
No,

Angie (41:05):
I will.
I will at some point.
God, we'll let you know.
Okay, so protein, all right, youdefinitely need some more.
You also want to refuel yourbody with carbohydrates after
your run or after your trainingsessions.
Because that's going to helprefill your glycogen stores, and
it's also going to help loweryour cortisol levels because
you're refueling your body, andthat helps to shift your body

(41:27):
out of your sympathetic and intoparasympathetic nervous system.

Kevin (41:32):
All right.
You also, and this one, hits mestrong.
You wanna make sure you spaceyour hard efforts with at least
48 hours between any highintensity sessions.
That is high intensity for you.
Whatever feels like it is aparticularly difficult workout,
you're gonna need some gapbetween that one and the next
time you go particularlydifficult.
So if you are pushing speed onone day and then stressing

(41:56):
yourself by lifting particularlyheavy the next day, the day
after that being like, it's beenfour, eight hours since I ran
really fast.
Yes, you are correct, but it hasnot necessarily been 48 hours
since you pushed yourself to ahigh level.
So you gotta make sure that youactually space out the intense
stresses that will help yourrecovery.

Angie (42:15):
Absolutely.
All right, so let's jump into alittle summary'cause we've
covered a lot of things on thisepisode.
So how to, how do you recognizewhether or not you are under
recovered?
So some red flags that you wannalook at.
If you have fatigue, thatdoesn't resolve with rest,
right?
if you are waking up every daytired or exhausted for some of

(42:38):
you, and you're just feelingtired all the time.
That can be a sign that you arenot recovered if you're having
mood changes or anxiety ordepressive types of symptoms
that can be under recovery.
And this is where it gets alittle tricky, right?
Because there's a lot of things.
Perimenopause also has thesesymptoms.
Pretty much everything that I'mabout to tell you is also a

(42:59):
symptom of perimenopause.
Again, these are not separatethings.
They are all connected becauseperimenopause is a stress on the
body.
Perimenopause messes with yourhormones and your stress levels
and your stress hormones.
So it really is, these are allsigns of your body being
overstressed, and that's whathappens to a lot of women during
perimenopause.
So it's not just.
Perimenopause itself, it'sbecause of the changes in the

(43:22):
hormones that your body is goingthrough in perimenopause that
causes your system to beoverstressed.
So I just wanna make that kindof point out.
'cause people are like, how do Itell if I'm under recovered?
Or if it's just perimenopause?
It's it doesn't actually matter.
But what it is telling you isthat your body's overstressed
and if your body isoverstressed, you need recovery.
Period.
It doesn't matter if that stressis coming from perimenopause or

(43:44):
training or other areas.
These are signs that your bodyis over stress and under
recovered.
Okay, so let me go back to mylist.
So fatigue, mood changes,anxiety, increased soreness.
If you're noticing that you're,just sore all the time, or
you're more sore than younormally would be after an easy
workout or even after a harderworkout.
If you're noticing that when yougo out for your run and you're

(44:08):
putting in that effort basedtraining, you're trying to hit
that easy pace and your pace isslower than it used to be, or
your medium pace, your moderatetempo type of pace is slower
than it used to be on aconsistent basis, right?
This isn't one run.
One run doesn't mean anything,but if you like.
Consistently week after week,month after month, you're
noticing that your paces keepslowing down.

(44:28):
That is a sign that you areundercovered.
If you're noticing poor sleep,if you're noticing sugar
cravings or things like that,you're probably not fueling your
body as well.
And if you're not fueling yourbody and giving it what it
needs, you're not gonna berecovering the way that your
body needs to.
And then of course, the.
if you continue with the underrecovery, if you're getting sick
all the time, if you'refrequently ill, or if you're

(44:50):
just always having more achesand pains, those little niggles,
and then of course thoseinjuries, right?
Minor injuries or majorinjuries, those are all signs
that your body is overstress andit just can't adapt.
It's not able to handle what.
What's going on?

Kevin (45:02):
Yeah.
And as you pointed out, all ofthese kind of go together and
you're, it doesn't exactlymatter what the cause of it is.
And it doesn't matter if thecauses too much stress or not
enough recovery.
If you're seeing these things,you can treat too much stress by
increasing recovery like you canhandle.
Extra stress By increasing thelevel of recovery, you don't
necessarily have to reduce thestress.

(45:23):
You just have to really ramp uprecovery in, in ways that we've
talked about.
poor sleep and sugar cravings,these guys go together.
If you aren't giving yourselfproper fuel, the body is going
to want the easiest source offuel it can.
That's where the sugar cravingscome from.
Your body's I need.
Anything and I need quickenergy, so just gimme straight
sugar because I'm running so lowthat my brain isn't even working

(45:45):
correctly.

Angie (45:45):
Yeah.

Kevin (45:46):
So these are where they're all, they all come
together.

Angie (45:48):
Everything's coming together here.
And the important message foryou to understand is that your
body is not fighting you.
Your body's not failing you.
Your body is not broken.
It's communicating with you.
And recovery is how you respondto the communication that your
body is giving you.
Your body's.
Asking you, begging you in somecircumstances to give it more

(46:11):
sleep or to more fuel or morerecovery.
And that's our job to startrecognizing that and giving our
body what it needs.

Kevin (46:19):
Okay, so how do we actually deal with this?
How do we optimize our recovery?
An opener after you work out

Angie (46:27):
opener,

Kevin (46:27):
after you work out, you gotta recover, put some fuel
into yourself.

Angie (46:30):
You gotta refuel,

Kevin (46:31):
you've got to re,

Angie (46:32):
you said recover.

Kevin (46:34):
How do you, I said, how do you recover?
Put some fuel into yourself.

Angie (46:36):
Yeah, sorry.

Kevin (46:37):
So refuel yourself.
Yeah.
20 to 30 grams of protein withsome carbs.
People go so big on the protein,they're like, I gotta get the
protein in.
If you don't take in the proteinwith carbs, your body doesn't
know what to do with it.
If you dump a pile of bricks ata construction site, but don't
bring any mortar, you're notgetting a wall.
So you gotta make sure that youactually bring the protein and

(46:57):
some carbs so that your body canactually utilize the proteins
that you're providing it.
You gotta hydrate after you'veworked out, you've lost sodium,
you've lost a variety of otherelectrolytes and you've lost
fluids.
So make sure that you aregetting the fluids back in.
Make sure that you're replacingsome of your key electrolytes,
especially the sodium.
The fluids are super importantwith the protein and the carbs

(47:18):
because if you're superdehydrated, you just don't have
the ability to move thingsthrough your body to aid in the
recovery process.

Angie (47:25):
Yeah, this is like our new dog.
He.
Has been eating kibble at hisfoster home.
And so obviously with changinghomes, we're not gonna also just
change his food right away.
So we're continuing to feed himkibble.
And one of the things that I'venoticed is how much,'cause our
previous dog, she ate kibblesometimes, but her main.
Food Source was a brand calledFresh Pet.

(47:48):
And it was like, we bought thatin the refrigerator section.
Maybe they'll sponsor us.
Woo.
yeah, come sponsor our runningpodcast.
You never know though, becausethis guy will run with me.
He ran with me today and he didsuch a good job.
He's Who

Kevin (47:59):
run with you?
He's huge.
I know.
He was he's the size of my carfor all of our listeners.

Angie (48:03):
No, he is not.
He is not that big.
It's funny'cause he's big for usfor sure.
He's, he is much bigger than ourprevious dog.
he's about 42 pounds right now.
He's a small standard poodle forthose of you that he's huge
wondering.
He's and he's black and whiteand he's so cute.
Anyway, He drinks a lot ofwater.
He drinks so much more waterthan our last dog did.
And I think that a big part ofthat is the kibble because the,

(48:25):
with the dried food, going backto your point of hydration is,
when you have that dried food,you need the water to go with it
so that your body can actuallydigest it.

Kevin (48:35):
Yes.
He also drinks louder than anyother dog that has ever existed.
And

Angie (48:39):
he's wonderful.
And you love him?
Not yet.
Yeah.
I know you don't.
I'm not.
I'm not forcing that on you yet.

Kevin (48:45):
Thank you.
Number three, active recovery.

Angie (48:47):
Oh, I get to talk about this one.
Go.
So active recovery is anotherway that you can optimize your
recovery.
This.
So a lot of people, when theythink recovery, they think,
okay, I'm just gonna go lie onthe couch.
Or I'm gonna just sit by thepool and that is a great way to
recover pass.
That is what is known as passiverecovery.
Just resting.
But active recovery is afantastic way for you to.

(49:09):
For your body to recover,especially if you're a woman
over 40.
There's a lot of women that findthat if they just lay around and
don't do much, they're actuallymore sore and active recovery
can really help.
So this is things like going ona walk or doing some gentle
mobility, not doing a workout,but doing some gentle mobility
or some yoga.
If yoga is something that's easyfor you.

(49:29):
There are some of our clientsthat use swimming as active
recovery because they used to bea competitive swimmer, so
swimming is something that'svery easy for them.
For me, swimming is not easy, sothat would not be a form of
active recovery for me, buttheir body very much knows and
loves.
Swimming.
So that's a very easy, gentleform of active recovery for
them.
So the whole point of activerecovery is that it feels easy,

(49:52):
it feels gentle.
It's just putting your bodythrough nice, gentle movement
throughout the day.

Kevin (49:57):
Yeah.
This is where cross trainingcomes in, is it's a stress to
your body, but it's not.
Enough of a stress to continueto boost excessively on the
stress side.
It actually just creates somemovement, increases some
circulation through your body sothat all of the repair stuff can
actually move nicely throughyour body.
it's super helpful.
And what active recovery lookslike for you is very different

(50:19):
from one person to the next.
we've got the Chicago Marathonwas just over the weekend.
If you're talking about theactive recovery of the people
who are winning the ChicagoMarathon, they're going out and
jogging at eight minute pace.
That is active recovery for thembecause they're racing a
marathon at four and a halfminute pace.
And so it all depends on whatthat recovery looks like for

(50:41):
you.
The key is that it feels super,super comfortable.
Walking is great because it isless pounding than running is.
Yeah.
That's also why biking andswimming are fantastic, as long
as those don't feel overlystressful for you.
I don't enjoy swimming fordistance, and so that would just
be remarkably mentally stressfulfor me.

Angie (50:59):
Yeah.
Which then is not activerecovery.
That's another important thingthat I want you to.
Point out or that I wanna pointout here.
And I'm glad you made thatpoint.
If it is mentally stressful foryou, that is also not an active
recovery day.
another thing you could do isschedule your rest breaks.
We suggest typically one fullday off per week.
Now again, when I say a full dayoff, that can include active

(51:22):
recovery.
It doesn't mean that you have tosit around on the couch all day.
It can include going out forwalking.
It can include some gentlemobility.
But having a rest day where youare not actively, training is a
really good thing for your body,especially over the age of 40.
And then of course, you wanna dothings that help to regulate
your stress levels.
Think about that stress bucket.

(51:43):
We wanna do things that aregonna help decrease the water
level in our stress bucket.
So things like breath work,sitting and just.
Literally breathing for fiveminutes can do wonders for your
nervous system and your stressregulation.
It is, I think that weunderestimate so much the

(52:03):
importance of just sittingquietly for five minutes and
just breathing.
It is, there's so many studiespeople can call it meditation.
People call it breath work.
It's just sitting and being.
You like just sitting and being,not doing anything.
Not thinking a million differentthings.
Just focusing on your breathmakes a huge difference.

(52:25):
Things like journaling, doing abrain dump.
Just we were on our coachingcall today.
And one of our clients wastelling us all, there just,
there's a lot of stuff going onin her life right now.
And I suggested get a journaland just do a brain dump where
you just write down all the crapthat's going on in your head
without a filter.
Just dump it all out on thepiece of paper, I had another

(52:46):
client that I suggest that shewas having, trouble sleeping
and.
I suggested that she do this,and she emailed me like a week
later and she couldn't believeit.
She's Angie, I can't believethis.
I've literally been doing thisfor the past couple of days and
I've slept through the night.
The last three or four days, Ihaven't woken up at 3:00 AM She
was waking up every night at3:00 AM and then staying up and

(53:08):
not been able to get back tosleep.
And just by instituting thebrain dump before bed, she was
able to sleep through the nightand it was making a huge
difference in how she felt.

Kevin (53:17):
I wanna go back to breath work for a second.
breath work.
Go.
People can talk about it asmeditation.
You could use it as a prayerritual also.
Yeah.
but don't do it as somethingwhere you're judging yourself
about how well you're doing,because now suddenly it's not a
way to regulate your stress.
It's a way to increase yourstress.
Yeah.
If you're working on breath, ohmy God, I'm

Angie (53:35):
doing it wrong.

Kevin (53:36):
Yes.
Yeah.
if through the entire thing,you're trying to make sure that
you're, you are appropriately.
Breathing that you're, oh, I'm,I've gotta breathe in for four
and out for four, and this timeI only breathed in for three.
It's, it should not be anythingthat is increasing your stress.
It's supposed to be a calm andpeaceful time.

Angie (53:52):
Yeah, very good point.
And then time in nature can bevery grounding and very
regulating.
Walking barefoot on grass or onsand, like actually on the
earth, has been shown bydifferent research studies to do
a world of good.
You could do that for five to 10minutes in the morning.
getting morning sunlight, alsovery good for you.
And again, don't let all thesethings, you don't have to do

(54:14):
every single one of thesethings.
Pick one, pick one to startwith.
And if you're like, oh, you knowwhat, I can do that.
I can go out for a walk.
I can go put my feet in thegrass in the morning.
That sounds actually like areally good thing.
Maybe you go put your feet inthe grass for five minutes and
you take breath, like youbreathe.
That's it.
You just go stand in the grassand breathe or sit in the sit,
put your chair and put your feetin the grass.

(54:35):
and just breathe.
It's pretty wild.

Kevin (54:37):
If you're already doing drill work up and down your
sidewalks in your neighborhood,everybody thinks you're weird in
the first place.
So go outside and just pop asquat in your lawn.
Put your feet in the grass.
It's gonna be great.

Angie (54:47):
Perfect.
Exactly.
So I want you to think of yourenergy levels like a bank
account.
So every run, every trainingsession is you removing from
your bank account and recoveryis a deposit back into that bank
account.
Just like your regular bankaccount, if you withdraw
constantly without adding backin, eventually you're gonna
overdraft.

(55:07):
And that's what happens with ourtraining.
So I hope you now understandthat recovery is a part of your
training.
It's not separate from it, it'snot optional, it's not a second.
It should never, ever be anafterthought.
It should be something that isplanned in to your training
because adaptation.
Depends on the balance betweenstress and rest.

(55:30):
And if you are constantlystressing the body and not
resting, you are not going tomake the progress that you want.
And especially if you aresomeone over 40, especially if
you are a woman over 40,honoring recovery is how you get
stronger.
but that this sentence reallydoes apply to anyone, no matter
your age.
Honoring your recovery is howyou get stronger.
It's not a sign of you slowingdown.

(55:52):
It's not a sign of you gettingolder.
Like it's not a sign of, oh myGod, I have to do this now.
Like this is you honoring thisnext phase of your life.
And that is a beautiful thingbecause if you want to perform
better, if you wanna feelbetter, if you wanna keep
running for decades, you have toprotect and safeguard your
recovery, just like you protectand safeguard your training.

(56:13):
That's what I've got.
What do you got, Kev?

Kevin (56:16):
No, I thought that was a great way to do it because so
many people safeguard theirtraining.
They figure out I will move allsorts of things around my
schedule to make sure that I canget in my workouts.
You have to safeguard yourrecovery just as strong.

Angie (56:26):
Absolutely.
So if you found this episodehelpful, number one, make sure
you join us because this is justthe first episode in our
recovery series.
In the next couple of episodes,we're gonna be going into some
of those specific recovery.
Tools and modalities, thingslike foam rolling, cold
plunging, sauna, compression,all sorts of fun stuff.
to help you understand what'sgoing on with those things,

(56:47):
which ones should you focus on,which ones are maybe a waste of
your time.
and, we'll just help youunderstand how to recover better
because you are not going tomake the progress that you want
unless you are recovering.
Also, if you found this episodehelpful, please leave us a
review, leave us a comment,share this episode with a
friend, help us share thepodcast and help more runners to

(57:09):
get better and to feel betterand to run their life.
And as always, thanks forjoining us.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
431.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.