March 4, 2026 • 50 mins
A great interview with Professional Photographer Carter Cundiff of Kate Styles Photography. We explore how grief-focused photography can help honor loved ones, why saying their names matters, and where end-of-life planning meets compassion. Carter shares her practice, shamanic training, and how images become legacy, while we unpack the role of death doulas and the realities of caregiving.
• grief-informed portraiture that preserves memory and meaning
• intuitive vs analytical grieving styles and when each helps
• shamanic training as a path to self-awareness and service
• death doulas’ role in planning, advocacy and family support
• triggers, resilience and the quiet rituals of remembrance
• ethical care for aging clients and honoring final wishes
• why photos and printed keepsakes outlast the hardest seasons
• resources to connect with Carter and continue the work
Here is how you can connect with Carter....www.katestylesphotography.com
on Instagram @carter_ksp
brandingbycarter.ksp@gmail.com
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If you believe grief deserves tenderness, truth, and a voice — I would be honored to have you on this journey with me.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris,
where we talk about relevantissues as it relates to
individuals in grief as theynavigate finances and the
advisors who help them.
We help clients in griefnavigate financial matters.
We also teach advisors how toemotionally and financially work
with clients in grief through anunparalleled process.
(00:48):
This week's podcast is sponsoredby Life After Grief Financial
Planning and Life After GriefConsulting.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Real
Talk with Life After GriefChris.
I have a pretty cool guest thisweek, and I'm inquisitive in
regards to some of the thingsthat she does, and I'm going to
ask her some questions aboutthat.
Her name is Carter Cundiff.
I met Carter through aninteresting exchange.
So, as you know, I'm in theprocess of writing a book, but
(01:23):
the person and the company thatis helping me out introduced me
to Carter.
And Carter and I had somesynergies in regards to the
grief space.
And so I meet a lot of folks inthe grief space.
I meet less people in the griefspace that do the work, the real
hard work behind gettingthemselves on the right track
(01:46):
and really enjoying life again.
And that's not to criticize oranything.
Everybody has their own path.
But Carter and I have the samesynergy.
See, she lost her father, Ibelieve it was in 2020.
And from my experience, losinganyone close to you is a
life-altering experience,especially being younger.
(02:07):
And what's interesting aboutCarter's space is she is a
professional photographer andshe captures the essence of
people.
And I think more recently in thegrief space, she does some very
interesting photography.
I'm interested in learning moreabout that, although I've
(02:29):
learned some already.
I'm sure she's gonna tell mesome more.
And then this interestingconcept of a death duel, is that
right?
That we talked about.
And I've loosely heard about it,but now as things get introduced
to you, it comes at you like afire hose.
So I met someone else last weekthat was a death duel.
And we'll ask, I'll ask somequestions around that.
(02:51):
I don't know that it's a newconcept, but I think it's a
newer concept for me out ofignorance.
And so I'm gonna probe you aboutthat.
Carter, I'm gonna open it up.
I'm gonna let you brag aboutyourself.
I'm sure I'm not doing youjustice, but go ahead, please.
Introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Hey, everybody.
My name is Carter Cundiff.
I live in Richmond or justoutside outside of Richmond,
Virginia.
I am a professionalphotographer, just like Chris
said.
And we work with just aboutanybody.
I joke at my weekly networkinggroups that if you're a human
being and you need photos, John,we can pretty much help you out
because I am part of a threeripher team.
(03:28):
So three women, we all arephotographers.
Our owner is Kate Styles.
That's the name of our company,Kate Styles Photography.
And it's a beautiful synergy asyou keep mentioning that word.
I love it.
Because when you put creativestogether, it can be tough
sometimes.
And so getting the ability tohave a owner that looks at us
like partners in the business.
(03:48):
And then we can effortlessly andauthentically do exactly what we
want.
That's the best thing forcreative.
We work with women, especially.
We do work with some men withthe branding that I do, but we
do women's portraiture, boudoir,branding in business, weddings.
We even do some families.
Really, it's the folks that cometo us for the other things
(04:09):
usually come and say, hey, wegot family photos we want to do.
Or grandma is not doing great,and we want to make sure that we
have photos with her, but wealso offer products and we have
a hair and makeup artist and apersonal stylist.
So we have a full team.
We really love working withpeople and bringing up a legacy
for them, no matter what part oftheir story that is.
(04:30):
That can be your passion, yourbrain, and your business, or it
can be the story of your lifeand your legacy.
And like you mentioned, Chris, Ilost my father in 2020, my
partner, we've been together alittle over a decade, and he
lost his dad in 2017.
So we've had some major losses.
And if it wasn't for the photosthat we have printed, those
(04:50):
memories would be gone.
I always emphasize that withpeople I'm talking to, whether
you're a client or not.
It's why it's so important to usto capture the essence of people
across our whole team, as wellas these moments that are
meaningful to them.
And sometimes they're sadmoments, sometimes they're
happy, exciting, sometimes it'sa transition you're accepting.
(05:11):
But regardless of what that is,we believe that you need to have
that experience of celebratingit for yourself, whatever it is,
and then having the memories togo back on.
And maybe it's for when you'reno longer here and it's the
people that love you most.
So yeah, hopefully that explainsa little bit about me.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
It does.
And I'm trying to figure out howyou can do portraits of me.
I'm trying to figure that outnow.
That's interesting.
You often think of photographyas, and I'm just thinking
because we're in the holidaymode, and I'm Catholic as most
people know, so I'm going totalk about Christmas.
So you think about Christmasportraits, and those are family
(05:49):
portraits, and it's uh static intime with your family.
My boys are 10 and 12.
But really going beyond that andtaking again myself as an
example of having so much lossand how you just eloquently
talked about capturing thatbefore, during, after, and in
(06:10):
that maybe in that recoveryperiod, I think that's very
interesting because you can lookback and you can see things as
an individual who's experiencedthat and wow, I was going
through that.
SPEAKER_03 (06:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
And I either put on a really good face or my
emotions were just showingthrough.
I think that's very interesting.
And for someone to understandthat and capture that element,
that's pretty cool.
That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
Thank you.
And especially to speak to thegrief piece, I know we're going
to talk more about that on how Ikind of photograph individuals,
but it does go across the board.
But the reason I'm able to focusin on that, one is because I've
worked through my grief.
I'm also the type of person thatlikes to talk about it.
I like to talk about him.
I like to keep him alive.
And that's just somethinginternally.
(07:00):
That's how I grieve, that's howI heal.
Not everybody heals the same.
And that's what kind of birthedthe grief photography side of
things for me is because it wasa need that I had.
It was the idea that I didn'twant to not be able to either
one, make new memories with him,and two, that I wanted to be
(07:21):
able to show others that it'sokay to celebrate that season
that was hard.
Because, like you said, it hasso many different elements that
come up with it, whether that'ssadness, joy, anger,
frustration, learning about themin a way you never thought you
would, especially a character.
Yep.
You you have this interestingcast over who they are, not
(07:42):
necessarily a hero always, butthere's something untouchable.
And when you get to that pointwhere, oh, they're no longer
here, and then you're learningabout things and that make them
human.
Right.
Especially as you become anadult.
Even when you are an adult, it'shard to hear those things
sometimes.
It was another campaign that Iwas working on, this grief
journey campaign photo sessionthat had nothing to do with
(08:03):
grief.
And I said, There's a sentimentthat's missing.
And it took one day, and I thinkI told you the story where I was
driving home getting fromgetting food, and I saw these
two gentlemen, don't know them.
They weren't even that close.
I couldn't see their faces, butsomething reminded me of my dad.
Maybe that was him just winkingat me.
I don't know.
And I just started crying.
And I said, that's what I need.
I needed to have that element,that sentimental, that grief
(08:28):
element.
And it all came to me.
And it was, oh, I need to do asession that gives you two
different products.
One that me sitting with you,letting you either talk about
the person that you're missing,whether that's a parent, a
sibling, a friend, whatever, achild, maybe it's a season that
you're transitioning out of thatyou thought was going to be
forever.
(08:48):
Maybe you have an illness thatdoesn't allow you to be the
person you really dreamed andhoped to be, because these other
people that are more able-bodiedor more just a different life
can do these things, but nowyou're grieving it.
It can be really multiplethings.
It doesn't have to just belosing a person in your life,
right?
But I wanted to give thisperson, whoever comes for this,
(09:10):
a place to talk about what itis, how it felt, and then me
photographing them as they'redoing such and as they're
explaining how they want tohighlight this person or this
season.
And maybe there's certainelements, things that I can
capture the essence of you andrepresent that.
Maybe it's a physical thing thatyou're wearing, like you can
(09:31):
visually see that representsthat, and then create what I
call a nine up.
And that's nine photos that kindof show the expression of how
that felt for that journey.
And that's one big print.
And then the idea for me was Ialso needed a new memory.
So I took another photo, and forme, it was representing my dad.
(09:52):
And he loved to dance, he lovedto laugh.
So it was me joyfully dancing.
And I had somebody, one of ourother sociophotographers, that
has her own grief andunderstands she was capturing
these photos for me.
And I even had a book that mydad read to me as a kid that he
read it so many times, Chris,which I'm sure you might
understand this, that he knew itby heart because 10 pages and
(10:13):
it's, I think it was hats forsale is what it's called, if
you've ever heard of it.
And, you know, that when I thinkof that book, I just go right
back to him reading it andmaking silly voices and all the
things.
By doing this for myself, I waslike, man, there's probably
other people that need this too.
It's one of those things where Italk about it, I share about it.
And then if somebody'sinterested, I love to hear what
(10:34):
it is that might make sense forthem.
Because it's not something thatI'm just sitting out here and
I'm gonna be marketing.
It's not one of those things.
I think it's the right peopleare gonna find me and need this.
Because again, I'm somebodythat's able to hold space for
folks in this season.
I can take myself out of it.
And I think that's a huge part.
Not everybody's available to dothat.
(10:56):
They don't, they're not at thatpoint in their life, and maybe
they never will be.
So it's not that I owe it toanybody, but I feel if I can,
why not?
Because then it also allows me aspace to talk to them about how
I can relate and how Iunderstand in a different way.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Um, so yeah, that's what how that birthed, where
that came along, and how I feellike I can be, like you said,
that person for other people andable to represent this visually
for them.
I could be that bridge because Ifigured out what I needed, and
then I can help others do thattoo.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Yeah, that's really important.
I just figured out something.
It took me a while to understandreally why we connected.
I understand on surface level,but you had said something, and
you probably understand thisnow, but I'm constantly in a
state of analysis when I'mtalking to folks.
Not a bad analysis, but I'm justreading their body language and
understanding things about them.
(11:48):
One of the things that you hadsaid is that you like to talk
about your grief and outwardlyexpression, and you didn't say
this, but I read between thelines, but you like to
assimilate with other peoplethat have shared a grief
experience.
And so in my training, I callthat being an intuitive griever.
(12:08):
And that's why you and I, itfinally dawned on me why we gel,
and it's because we share that.
And I'll just take that a stepfurther.
And the grief journey, mynatural style is intuitive, and
that means I like to assimilate,I like to talk about it, I
journal about it.
But sometimes you're not able todo that.
(12:28):
Um, and so then there's thisother grief that I talk about,
and it is more like technical,you just have to push forward.
And I call that an analyticalgriever.
And when there are just thingsthat are just in front of you,
and you just have to get throughthose things.
And that is an uncomfortablestyle for me.
And I imagine that would beuncomfortable for you as well.
(12:51):
But sometimes, as life wouldhave it, there are roadblocks
and you have to move aroundthose things.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I agree.
And analytical is the perfectword.
I'm very much the same as youare in that aspect in a lot of
life.
I've actually in the last year,as I've worked through, I think
I was telling you, I'm workingto become a shaman, and that is
a huge piece of the challengesare gonna come.
You have to feel through them.
You have to feel the emotions.
(13:17):
And another, I don't know ifmuch about human design, but
part of my human design, it'sanother like an analysis test of
your personality in a what mycoach would call is my
superpower is emotionalauthority is how I make
decisions in the world.
I go through the waves of thedifferent emotions.
And sometimes you have to speedthat process up, right?
(13:38):
You can't always take days anddays to make a decision.
One, I've been able to work ondoing that better.
I'd be interested to see ifyou've had to work on that too.
But I've also realized that one,really feeling the feelings and
not feeling like I have to mutethem because the world may have
told me to do so.
And you get more of an epiphanysometimes out of situations when
(14:01):
you truly feel the feelings,work through how that feels for
you.
Cause sometimes you realizemaybe it's more around me.
Maybe there's something I haveto work out with this other
person that I just didn't wantto face.
You can go across the board.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Does that kind of resonate with you at all or make
sense?
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
It does.
And you bring up a very specificincident.
So my parents' home, I hadalready sold my parents' home,
and I had to go back to thathouse for something.
I rented the house for a periodof years, and I had to go back
to the house.
And the the house is in myneighborhood and on the street.
(14:41):
The street, we a lot of theneighbors hang out.
So I went to the house.
It was the first time that Irealized that this house is no
longer in our name.
And even though I was rentingit, I was in and out of the
house.
I had no emotional attachmentsbecause the folks that they were
going to be in and out asrenters.
(15:02):
But once I signed the house overand I went to the doorstep, they
asked me to come in and I gotvery emotional.
I couldn't go in.
I physically could not go in thehouse.
And my kids were in the car, mywife was in the car, and we were
going someplace else.
And I took a moment and I knew Iwas going to have this burst of
emotion.
And I was having a little bit ofemotion when I was when we were
(15:24):
driving over to this otherfriend's house, but Anne Marie,
my wife, gave me the space andshe took herself and the kids
out of the car, and I needed amoment by myself.
Yeah.
And I just balled.
And you described that veryeloquently.
And that was a story that I justthought about as you described
that.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
I can think of a similar story specifically
related to property.
My grandfather, so this is mymom's dad.
Okay.
Um, he actually passed away at94 from his dementia.
SPEAKER_03 (15:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
That was the thing that really ended up taking him,
but he had many other thingsthat he had fought and really
tackled along like cancer andall kinds of things.
And it's not until I think aboutit this way now, was a core
place for our that side of ourfamily.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
And at many different points, after he and
my grandmother moved in when Iwas, I think before I was born,
multiple of us have lived there.
So while my parents werebuilding our house in the same
neighborhood as him, we wereliving there for a couple of
years while it was built.
When my parents had to sell ourhouse and I was 20, I had to
(16:32):
find a place to live becausethey were leaving the state or
leaving the area.
I moved back in with him.
My aunt and uncle were livingthere with him too.
And it was very much a beautifulhappening when it happened
because then all of us gotcloser and leaned on each other.
And while there was some crazystuff happening at the time, it
was something that I think weall needed was to be together
(16:54):
and to lean on each other andjust to get to know each other a
little bit better.
But when we had to put up hishouse for sale many years after
that, cleaned everything out.
My mom's like, hey, I want youto see if there's anything you
want to take.
I ended up getting to take hisdining room table.
That I just when I think aboutthat table, I think about the
Sundays that we all had pizzaand would eat dinner there.
(17:15):
I was the grandchild that waswith him all the time growing
up.
SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
They joke around that I was his favorite, but I
didn't spend so much time withhim.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
And so it was walking through that house with
nothing in it at one point.
And I sat in the back floor ofthe room that he had, and I just
sat there and I was just, Ididn't ball, but it was one of
those things of just like yousaid, where I'm not gonna get to
be here ever again.
I don't think I took it forgranted prior to that, but it
(17:44):
was so real.
And it's like when you losesomeone, I'm never gonna see
them in front of my physicaleyes ever again.
I'm not gonna hear their voiceand talk to them physically.
And that's such a, it can besuch a stark kind of realization
and kind of thing that your bodyhas to go through in your mind.
And that was another beautifulthing that I told you about
(18:04):
where we were talking aboutdeath doula.
I recently had a event for folksthat are grievers.
And because, like I hadmentioned before, there's things
that I didn't have for myselfand my friends that have dealt
with grief at a young age, orreally any age, and or
caregivers, what have you.
So I said, Oh, let me put on anevent with four panelists that
(18:25):
have stake in the game.
One was a funeral home director.
We had a death doula, we had agrief therapist, and then we had
a grief coach.
And I had three folks, soincluding myself, speak to a
story where they've lostsomebody, or maybe they were
grieving being a caregiver orgrieving the loss of their son
(18:45):
to suicide.
And then each of the panelistsafter each story would speak on
how could I have helped youduring that season?
It honestly worked out where Iended up doing it the week
before my dad's birth date andpassing date.
And I think I'm gonna do thatway every year because that's
gonna be something I can do forgood and honor him without
having to necessarily.
But all of that to say, one ofthe things that a couple of the
(19:08):
panelists said was when you stopsaying their name, that's like a
second death.
And that just really hit me in adifferent way because I'm like,
oh man, all I want to do is keeptalking about him.
But maybe in my mind, I wasfearing the others not talking
about him and then might forgetor you know, insert anything.
So all I have to say, I sounderstand what you felt like
(19:30):
you went through that daybecause, or you did go through,
because it can be the physicalthings, or it can be something
that's that hits you one day ayear from now, after they've
passed, or what have you, thatyou're actually surprised that
it hit you the way that it did.
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
Yeah, triggers, I call those.
Yeah, definitely triggers.
And they come at any point andany time.
And I like what you said aboutjust accepting people where they
are, holding that space.
I think that's very important.
And I look at folks that havebeen through experiences, and
some folks have not been throughtraumatic experiences.
(20:06):
And sometimes for me, it's alittle bit more difficult
encountering someone who has nothad a lot of experience.
And sometimes those individuals,not all the time, don't hold
that space or kind of just let'sjust get on with things.
Yeah.
And it doesn't work like that.
Not at all until you have thatexperience.
(20:28):
And I've commonly said this youfigure out stuff about yourself
when you hit rock bottom.
Whatever facet that is, and itdoesn't have to be in an attic
sense, it could be through nofault of your own.
But you definitely learn thingson the fly when you hit rock
bottom.
You don't have anybody else thatcan bail you out, and you have
(20:50):
no nothing else to rely onexcept yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
And that's a very humbling experience, but it's a
huge growth opportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (20:58):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
And I don't I'll take it a step further when you
hit rock bottom more than once.
So then it gives you a lot ofresilience.
And you talked aboutsuperpowers, which I think is
pretty cool.
But it's true, it gives yousuperhuman abilities.
And I'm not talking about likeSuperman like jumping out of a
(21:20):
window and flying.
I'm talking about being able tohold that space for someone that
has gone through a terribleexperience and knowing what to
say.
SPEAKER_03 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
And not because you've rehearsed it, but because
you've been through anexperience and you know how to
hold that space, knowing how togently guide them or give them
gentle advice to help them out,knowing some of the right things
to do for someone.
And I'd say something is small,and I get asked this question a
(21:54):
lot if someone close to me ispassed away, what can I do?
SPEAKER_03 (22:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:00):
And I say, you know what?
I could use some food.
And I don't feel like cooking.
SPEAKER_03 (22:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
And those are some of the things that I actually
offer because I know that sideof the fence.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
And so I see you extending the same courtesy, and
that's awesome that you're ableto do that.
I want to hear more about yousaid shaman, is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yes, that's correct.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
I want to hear more about that.
I like learning about thingsthat I'm ignorant, and I'm
probably going to find a bookabout it and read it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Awesome.
Okay.
I also grew up Catholic.
I think we mentioned it.
We personally talked about that.
And experienced all thedifferent phases of Catholicism
and grew up in that side ofthings.
My dad actually was Baptist andat 18 converted to Catholicism.
Um dating someone at the time.
And it's interesting how thefolks that convert, they
(22:51):
actually know much more than Ithink the average Catholic.
But not to say that's alwaystrue, but it's cool to see.
And he was somebody that wouldjust throw out all the random
facts you could think of.
Okay.
I feel like I was alwayslearning.
And now my partner, Kevin, he'sthe same way.
So I'll just go, yeah, just tellme things you want to tell me.
I'm happy to hear them.
I need to hear them multipletimes to understand them.
(23:11):
But I grew up in that moretraditional sense of religion.
And as I got older, things justdidn't quite fit for me, or I
felt there was maybe somethingelse that was missing, or just
maybe some hypocrisy in someaspects.
And this is just me personally.
I felt like I was told I wasbeing somebody that wasn't that
(23:34):
may go to hell or that was notgreat by the words that were
being spoken of, knowing I wasdoing things I maybe shouldn't
have been doing, or going downdifferent paths, but I was still
a kind and moral human.
Right.
I didn't give kindness toothers.
I wanted to love on otherpeople.
And my brain was like, oh, theseare the those are the
foundational pieces.
(23:55):
That's that and the integrity isimportant, all these things.
And so I said, okay, I'm gonnafigure myself out.
But I also respect everybody andwhat they feel is right for them
and the religion that makessense.
And I love to hear people talkabout it passionately if they're
open to talking back and forthabout it.
Or even if they're not, I'm Ican listen and then I can go my
(24:17):
way.
But it wasn't until probably alittle over a year ago, a couple
years ago, I met with a coach ofmine, and she was a life and
business coach.
She's also a modern-day shaman.
And she was telling me moreabout what she went through,
which is called the medicinewheel, and just a 12-month
process, and you learn about aPeruvian indigenous culture,
(24:39):
which is the specific to thespecific medicine wheel journey
she's referring to and whatshe's teaching us.
And mind you, I'm still on it.
So there's still things that I'mgonna get wrong and things I'm
not gonna say correctly, butit's the essence of the thing
for me.
Understanding your intuitiveabilities that we all have.
She loves neuroscience as well,so she kind of packs that in
there.
(25:00):
But it's understanding thosenatural and intuitive gifts that
you have, things that don'talways make sense logically to
some folks, but it's a feelingthat does make sense.
And that's even generalizing it.
But we're becoming as shamans,we're working on tools and
(25:20):
techniques that can help us workand heal on ourselves further.
It's going the seven layersdeep, right?
It's okay, I'm gonna face thislevel of trauma.
Okay, now that I've worked onthat.
She always gives us this analogyof skimming the pond, like
getting the scum off the top ofthe pond.
SPEAKER_03 (25:36):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Throwing the chemicals, they rise to the top,
you clear the pond.
That doesn't mean that there'sno scum that's gonna come back.
Deeper stuff that you got towork on now.
And so that's the same as yourtrauma.
You start with that first layer.
And what I've realized is I'mable to understand and see
things and situations that Icouldn't see before because I
was so hurt still on just themain thing.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
And there's a couple of deep trauma situations that
I've dealt with in time.
And it was very interesting howas I've kept working on it, and
this has been years of meworking on this on myself and
getting progress, but still notbeing able to get to a certain
level that I want.
And now I'm able to see certainthings I just couldn't see
(26:21):
before, how it manifested in myself-worth and who I am as a
person.
So it's been a very healingjourney for me working towards
this goal.
And it's also encouraged withoutme even saying things, people
just come to me naturally.
And I think we've talked aboutthis a little bit too, is they
(26:41):
just naturally come and theystart blurting out their stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Amazing how that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
But I believe this anyway, like regardless of what
you decide to with whetheryou're spiritual or you have a
religion that you follow, whenyou start to work on yourself,
and there's just a differentlight that comes out of you when
it's genuinely just working onyou and working towards being a
better version of yourself.
(27:06):
Doesn't necessarily mean you'rehappy all the time or you're not
ever sad.
And I think I had to realizethat too.
But you glow differently.
And that's not to necessarilyhave to bring it back to my
photography, but that's what Isee in people that they don't
see in themselves.
And so that's always if somebodyever say says that they see the
essence of the person in theirphoto or they're glowing or
(27:28):
they're like that makes methat's the best compliment a
friend or family member oftheirs could give them because
that's what I see, and that'swhat I want others to see in
them.
Because it's not uncommon thatthey've lost in themselves at
some point, especially as someof our women, because we mostly
work with women in the studio.
That happens often becauseyou've made yourself different
(27:50):
titles or maybe society.
You've become the mom, or thisis your job, all the different
categories that we get poppedinto.
And then we put ourselves lastif we think about ourselves at
all.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
And it's just, it's kind of it's just what a
blessing to have something inphysical form that you can look
back at and go, man, that's me.
Okay.
All right.
So I can stand a little tallertoday.
And sometimes that's thestarting step that it takes,
right?
I don't know.
I think all of those thingscombined together, and I think
working on this process tobecome a shaman is gonna help me
(28:25):
be a better person in society,but also relationships that I
have with friends, businessowners, my partner, my dog, I
don't know.
All the things that areimportant to me.
And then I'm giving back what Ifeel like people have given me
because it's been in the seasonswhere and I wasn't always this
(28:46):
self-aware.
It's been a self-help and tryingto better myself is something
I've always been on a track ofand I've always brought it in at
new phases.
I've learned what I needed to atthe time that I could
understand.
And then I level up when it's itstarts to feel tough again.
And I know we talked about thatand you have certain habits, but
(29:06):
then again, it's I don't know,that just that's what that is
for me and how I feel like I cangive that to other people
because there were moments inlife where I was so low.
And if it wasn't for thatpodcast recording, that book,
that person that just understoodand I didn't know why, that put
out their hand and said, Comeon, I'll just talk at me.
(29:29):
Like, or let's take a walk orwhatever that looks like that
can really be a lifesaver forpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (29:35):
Yeah, those glimmers of light.
Yeah.
You had brought up something,and I don't want to gloss over
it.
In regards to when you do thework yourself, you attract other
people.
And as you were describing it, Iwas thinking about like a
firefly.
We don't have fireflies here inFlorida, but in north of us, I
remember them when I was a kidin Kansas City at night, and how
(29:57):
mesmerizing fireflies are.
And everyone wants to catch afirefly or everyone wants to be
around a firefly.
And it's captivating in a sense,and I'm making this linkage,
when people realize that you arethat firefly and you're doing
the personal work and you exudethis light, this really bright
(30:20):
light, yeah, they want to be apart of that and they want to
understand how your light isshining so bright, especially
after you've hit some seriouslows.
Yeah.
Um, because I think thatresonates with a lot of people.
And I've often said this, andthis is me personally,
individually, that when you hitrock bottom, Chris Dale has a
(30:42):
couple of decisions.
You can either keel over anddie, you can be mediocre and
having a sucky life, or you canbe someone that has superpowers
and go through and do the hardwork, and there's no doubt it is
difficult work to get yourselfon the right side and
(31:04):
understanding how to enjoy lifeagain differently.
SPEAKER_03 (31:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
If you had asked me this question when my parents
passed away, I would have said,man, I don't know how I could
really enjoy life again.
But I'm gonna say thisselfishly.
I think I'm enjoying life betterthan when my parents were alive,
honestly, because I'm raisingtwo wonderful boys with my wife.
(31:30):
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
And to experience that aspect,if whoever wants to be a parent,
but for me, that's great.
And that's pretty cool.
And the aspect that I look at ittoo with regard to my parents is
that my parents were decliningin health.
And if they were alive decliningin health, I would have been
(31:51):
completely in that sandwichgeneration.
And I would have been takingcare of my parents and then
trying to raise my kids.
I don't have to worry about thataspect.
All I have to do is focus onraising two wonderful boys,
again, along with my wife, AnneMarie.
That's a pretty cool experience.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
And I see, yeah, and I see a lot of my friends whose
parents are still alivestruggling with that aspect,
still raising kids and thenhaving to worry about what's
going on with mom or dad.
That is stressful to worry aboutboth.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
And then you also have, because you think of the
sandwich generation and they'vegot their kids, and some of them
have multiple, and say it's theoldest kid, they kind of become
stuck in that loop too.
Because I'm thinking of otherfolks that, you know, are in my
circles and lots of caregiversaround.
And so it's affecting everybodyin the family.
(32:46):
Sure.
And also to say, to your effectof what you were saying is your
kids don't have to see that sidetoo.
They don't have to, not thatthey shouldn't be acquainted
with grief and death.
And it doesn't sound like that'sthe case for them.
It sounds like you probably havea healthy conversation with
them.
There's some folks that areafraid, they're afraid, so
(33:06):
they're afraid for theirchildren to be part of it too.
Or they just don't give themenough, they don't give them
opportunity to say, oh no, Ican't handle this.
They shield them from it.
But in that sense, for you, yousaid you're not having to
experience it and you can liveyour life with your kids.
And they in return get to alsodo the same thing, but have the
memories of your parents thatyou should.
SPEAKER_03 (33:26):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
And I think with my dad, it's a similar thing where
he can't imagine some of thethings that I'm doing in my life
and experiencing.
But I know he's proud.
And I know it's like in some wayhe's getting to live through
what I get to do that hecouldn't have imagined doing for
himself.
And you know what a gift thatis.
Yeah, really.
(33:46):
Even though I've beat myself upover it for years, maybe not
thinking I was what he mightwant, but that was also not very
fair to say either.
So but as an adult, you yourealize those things that don't
make sense as a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
I think your dad would be extremely proud of you.
And I think about again thatanalogy of hitting rock bottom,
and just imagine how great youhave done individually, Carter,
because you've had theseexperiences and what you're able
to do for other people.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
I didn't do anything other than recognize it.
So you did all the work.
I give props where they're due.
So feedback, thank you.
You're welcome.
You're noticing that I'm lookingdown because I'm taking notes.
So as I often do, you haveinspired me because there are
(34:37):
things that and I thought I'ddone a lot of work, but you make
me feel guilty about not doingenough personal development.
So I'm like looking at this ideaof a shaman, and I'm saying that
kind of jokingly, we all haveour own past, but this just
opened my eyes to just adifferent element.
When you were talking about it,I was thinking about the idea of
(35:00):
peeling back a banana, have thisaspect of all this stuff on the
surface, and you clear that, andthen you get down to the heart
of actually the banana, and youcan start digesting that and
really doing the internal workto really clear yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (35:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
To where you're at a place of healing too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
I don't want to forget about this death duela
idea.
SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
So I want you to talk about that too.
SPEAKER_00 (35:26):
I will share as much as I generally know.
I'm part of many networkinggroups, and like I'd mentioned,
I had an event recently, andthere's a couple of incredible
death jewels in our area.
And they honestly work throughfolks.
So think of like women who couldthink of a birth duel similar,
but more in the planning fordeath and in the experience of
when someone's passing.
(35:47):
Their heart is set aroundhelping you, like they could
even help you plan ahead of timeif you know something's coming,
what your wishes are, a localdeath jewel.
And she had a great examplerecently because she said it's
hard to explain because there'sso many things they can do for
somebody.
But recently there was agentleman, and I think it was he
didn't really have any familyleft, and he didn't have a lot
(36:11):
of people preceding him to takecare of his things.
He said, But what is it that'ssomething that you would want
cared for?
What do you feel like is yourlegacy once you're gone?
And he was an avid gardener,planter.
And he said, I just want mygarden to be taken care of or my
plants.
And so it was, those were thethings that he put his heart,
his time and sewed, right?
(36:32):
That he cared about.
And that can be so differentfrom person to person.
SPEAKER_03 (36:35):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
That's also different from what you want
versus maybe your spouse or yourchildren want for you.
It's important to have thosethings laid out.
And a death jewel is there tohelp you passing, but also to
help your family in a sense.
There's really so many thingsthat they can do.
And they have people, they havea great network that they can
connect to to folks that say youneed a lawyer for certain
(36:57):
things.
They'll they have a greatnetwork to do so.
Um, she's partnered with funeralhomes and senior care
facilities, I believe.
I'd be happy to connect you witha couple of my favorite folks
that are here in Richmond, justso you can hear more about it
and learn if you want.
They're more than happy to sharebecause it's so common that they
walk into a room and people likeyou said, What is this?
(37:19):
What do you do?
SPEAKER_02 (37:20):
Yeah, you inspired me.
So when you brought up theconcept, I think I've loosely
heard of it, but I didn't reallydig into it.
So I had an experience lastweek, actually.
So I had a client that passedaway.
He was a 20-year client, and hepassed away.
We had a very uniquerelationship.
He was married early in life, hehad no children, and this
(37:40):
gentleman was 84 when he passed.
And so the unique experiencethat I had was he knew
everything about my life, whathappened with my parents, and he
and my dad were very close inage.
And so this gentleman, Iessentially helped him get into
retirement.
He was physically responsible,but I just molded him to be able
(38:03):
to retire within a probably twoyears after we met.
And then he had 19 years inretirement.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (38:11):
With me, and he only really wanted one thing.
He just wanted to look at asheet of paper and know that he
had a magic number and it wasthere every time that we met.
That was all that he caredabout.
He didn't care about the hoursthat I spent behind the scenes
working for that.
And so our relationship was suchthat I would go see him when I
was working for someone else.
(38:32):
But then when I created my owncompany, I could go see him as
often as I wanted to.
So I'd go see him once a month,maybe a couple times a month,
and we'd have a field trip.
He'd like to go to the gunrange.
That was his thing.
And so, again, meeting peoplewhere they are.
And so I would go with him.
And then it really turned intoafter that, we were probably
only at the gun range for maybe15 minutes.
(38:54):
And then we would go to hishouse and spend a couple hours,
and he would just talk, and hewould tell me all kinds of stuff
about his life.
SPEAKER_03 (39:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
And he would always make coffee, some of the highest
end coffee I've ever had, and itwas completely black.
And then he'd give me a snack,like a little bar.
And so we'd just sit there for acouple hours and just chit-chat.
And so, fast forward lastSeptember, I noticed he was
declining.
And I've known a lot of stuffabout him.
(39:24):
He got in an accident.
I think he he had a medicalevent.
So I had to intervene.
And we had done his estateplanning in advance of that.
His famous words were, Chris,just take care of it.
And so he just, Chris, just takecare of it.
And he just had that trust inme.
And I'm getting to the point ofyou had mentioned this idea to
(39:44):
me about a death doula.
And so my experience with myparents and having my mother in
a nursing home with my client,knowing his final wishes.
SPEAKER_03 (39:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
And I took care of it.
And I'm putting my fingers upquotation, because I put myself
in a position where if I'm asingle guy in my 80s, don't have
any kids, was married 40 yearsago, would I care about where
any of my assets go?
Probably not.
SPEAKER_03 (40:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
And so that was the same thing with him.
But I said the important aspectfor you in terms of doing an
estate plan, knowing that youcould care less, if you become
incapacitated, I can't give youyour own money.
That's a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (40:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:25):
So if you have to pay the hospital or if you have
to pay someone or you have to dosomething, I can't give you your
own money.
So that was when he's like,okay, just take care of it.
Found an attorney, long-termattorney that I've had a very
good relationship with.
She did the paperwork and Isupplied her all the
information.
Again, me just taking care ofit.
And he showed up to the firstmeeting so she could verify that
(40:47):
he was an actual person.
And then the second meeting, hesigned all the paperwork.
That was October, November.
He had this event in January.
That was how close it was.
And then fast forward, he hadbeen declining October-ish.
And he actually went into arehab facility after his bounce
in the hospital, in and out ofthe hospital.
(41:09):
And I always remembered hiswishes because we had so much
dialogue.
He has a close personal friend.
It's more a daughter, I guess.
And she's very emotionallyattached.
And I could see it.
She lives upstairs and she wouldcheck on him on a regular basis.
And so she was feeling, I don'tknow, if guilty, but she was
(41:30):
feeling bad having to leave townto do some things that she
needed to take care of.
And I come in and I say, okay, Iknow his wishes.
He needs to be taken care of.
They need to be looked in.
And he only had myself, hisfriend, and then the attorney.
Those are the only people thathe really had.
And I'm like, why don't we justhire a companion to come and
visit him in the rehab facilityfour hours a day, seven days a
(41:50):
week?
SPEAKER_03 (41:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
And I mentioned that to his friend, and she's oh my
gosh, that's such a stressreliever.
And for me, it did a couple ofthings.
It relieved her, the emotionaltoll it was taken on her.
It also provided me a system ofchecks and balances to where I
could evaluate the facility on aregular basis.
(42:12):
And again, all he said to me is,can we afford it?
I said, Yes, we no, we can't.
You can afford it.
We can't.
This is not a we, this is yourmoney.
This is not my money.
But I said to him, if you weremy father, this is something
that I would do for you.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
And so, really to the heart of the matter, doing
what is in the best interest,and this goes beyond business.
This is just a human element,doing what is in his best
interest so he has the mostcomfort for his lasting days.
And so during that process, whenwe first hired the companion,
there were some missteps by therehab facility.
(42:50):
So I go there with my wife AnneMarie, and I said to him, I
said, I'm going to step out ofthe room.
Don't hit on my wife.
That's what I said to him.
And he's laughing.
So I go out of the room and heknows and I said, I got to take
care of something.
And he knows what I'm in.
He had some a couple of concernshimself.
So I'm going to go take care ofa couple things.
And then I come back and he seesthe serious look on my face, and
(43:13):
he smiles and he starts tolaugh.
And I'm like, What are youlaughing at?
He was like, You just you tookcare of it.
And so because he saw that I wasserious, and then he was like,
Chris, I like making you work.
I said, You definitely made mework here.
But he had this high degree oftrust and compassion that he was
(43:37):
being taken care of.
And there's that delicate linewhere I know that they talk
about sometimes seniors can betaken advantage of.
And but I've known this guy fora long time and he knew what
I've gone through, and he hadcomplete trust in me.
And then I got a call from hisattorney.
I was at a conference last week,and then he passed away.
(44:00):
I knew he was going to pass awaybecause of my hospice training.
The companion was reporting tome that his breathing was
slowing and he wasn't eating asmuch.
And then after he passed away,obviously the emotional toll is
going to take place.
I'm going to go see my therapisttomorrow to take care of myself.
But man, I felt really goodabout his last days and how I
(44:22):
had a part of that.
And based on my experience andme taking care of myself to have
a space to be clear-headed andthink about those things and
react or be a little bit moreproactive.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
It's just like he doesn't know how to do those
things for himself.
SPEAKER_02 (44:39):
Correct.
That is correct.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
It's wonderful, Chris, and any type of
interaction or situation thatyou're in.
Being analytical probably ishelpful with some of this, but
you're so integral with anythingthat you're setting your mind
to.
Because you're, like you said,it's just the human thing to do.
Right.
And with what you dospecifically and who you're
working with, that is such animportant element in caring
(45:02):
about the people and servingthem the way that you do.
Because anybody could do whatthey want with people's money
and give them advice that worksfor them.
You're not that kind of guy.
But it's just that's I hope youunderstand how wonderful that is
that you are that way and thatyou're doing that for your,
you're doing such a service toyour clients.
And clearly with this story,that explains it.
(45:23):
He said, I've got full trust inyou.
I know you're going to take careof me and not take advantage.
SPEAKER_02 (45:27):
Sure.
And I'm feeling I'm not, I'mfeeling that there's a fine
line.
And so his attorney, I'm nowchecking in with the attorney
because there is a businesselement to this too.
And this relationship went wellbeyond the scope of just
managing money.
Well beyond the scope.
(45:48):
There was a couple of guys atthe conference.
They said, Do you think that's anew business model for you?
And I said, Absolutely not.
That's not something that I wantto focus on.
But I said, in my practice,because I'm very selective of my
clients, that is a service thatI would offer them if they
(46:08):
needed it.
And I just thought about that.
And so with this particularclient, it was a full gamut.
And it made me understand, andthank you for the compliments.
It made me understand the truelife cycle that I had the
ability to imprint a positivelife for someone else.
(46:29):
Never thought of it that wayuntil this gentleman went
through that whole life cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
It was a really good feeling.
A really good feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
That's the combo of when intention meets impact,
having the intention and notneeding the result, not needing
the impact necessarily, but thenthat makes it all the greater
when you feel it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (46:50):
Um for sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:51):
Yeah.
So cool.
This has been a greatconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
Yes.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:57):
So thank you so much.
I want to give you anopportunity, and I'm going to
put this in the meeting notes,in regards to how folks can find
you.
SPEAKER_00 (47:06):
So a few ways that you can either find more
information about the team thatI was telling you about that I'm
part of as a photographer.
Our full team is under KateStyles Photography.
So you can find us at ourwebsite,
katestylesphotography.com.
And Styles is spelledS-T-Y-L-E-S.
Like Styles, that is her at likeactual last name.
(47:27):
People ask us that all the time.
You can also find me onInstagram at Carter underscore
KSP.
And that is just me as theassociate and all of the
different work that I do,whether it's women's
portraiture, grief, weddings,boudoir, the whole gamut.
You learn a little bit about me,even my partner.
Because when I started out witha team, I did more couples
(47:49):
photography.
And then I transitioned andevolved as we all do with our
craft.
But those are probably the bestways that you can get in touch
with me there.
Or if you want to email me, it'sbranding by carter.ksp at
gmail.com.
Always interested in havingfurther conversations about
whether if something resonatedwith you, just hearing what if
(48:12):
it if there's an impact or ifyou have questions.
I love being communal andconnecting with folks.
It's my favorite thing and kindof what keeps the world going
for me.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
So it's your jam.
SPEAKER_00 (48:23):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (48:25):
So I'm gonna put that information in the notes so
folks can reach out to youdirectly.
And I think you're gonnaresonate with a ton of people.
So I don't think I know that youare.
I will do that.
And in the process, of we,Carter and I have got introduced
through the company, and I'mkeeping that under wraps, I'm
(48:46):
keeping that in suspense alittle bit.
But this season is about mewriting a book.
And so you fit into that becauseof what you do.
And so as I'm learning aboutwriting a book is not only about
writing a book.
There's a ton of other elementsthat go in.
(49:06):
I'm going to be formallylaunching, and I'd invite anyone
that wants to be part of thelaunch process to join that.
And I will put more informationin the notes for this podcast as
well.
So I'm excited, and that's howCarter and I got introduced.
Carter, anything else you gotfrom your end?
SPEAKER_00 (49:27):
I think we covered everything.
I think I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (49:30):
Okay.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (49:33):
Yes, you're welcome.
And for anyone in the audience,cheers be well.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Thanks for listening to our podcast.
If you are a client and arelooking to work directly with
Chris andor our firm, head onover to Life After Grief FP.
That is Life After Grief FP.
The FP is for financialplanning.
If you are an advisor looking toemotionally and financially work
with your client in grief, or ifyou are a client looking to get
(50:05):
your advisor's head in the game,head on over to LifeAfter Grief
Consulting.com.
That is LifeAfter GriefConsulting.com.
Any related informationreferenced in this week's
podcast will be located here inthe podcast section.
Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris,
where we talk about relevantissues as it relates to
individuals in grief as theynavigate finances and the
advisors who help them.
We help clients in griefnavigate financial matters.
We also teach advisors how toemotionally and financially work
with clients in grief through anunparalleled process.
(00:48):
This week's podcast is sponsoredby Life After Grief Financial
Planning and Life After GriefConsulting.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Real
Talk with Life After GriefChris.
I have a pretty cool guest thisweek, and I'm inquisitive in
regards to some of the thingsthat she does, and I'm going to
ask her some questions aboutthat.
Her name is Carter Cundiff.
I met Carter through aninteresting exchange.
So, as you know, I'm in theprocess of writing a book, but
(01:23):
the person and the company thatis helping me out introduced me
to Carter.
And Carter and I had somesynergies in regards to the
grief space.
And so I meet a lot of folks inthe grief space.
I meet less people in the griefspace that do the work, the real
hard work behind gettingthemselves on the right track
(01:46):
and really enjoying life again.
And that's not to criticize oranything.
Everybody has their own path.
But Carter and I have the samesynergy.
See, she lost her father, Ibelieve it was in 2020.
And from my experience, losinganyone close to you is a
life-altering experience,especially being younger.
(02:07):
And what's interesting aboutCarter's space is she is a
professional photographer andshe captures the essence of
people.
And I think more recently in thegrief space, she does some very
interesting photography.
I'm interested in learning moreabout that, although I've
(02:29):
learned some already.
I'm sure she's gonna tell mesome more.
And then this interestingconcept of a death duel, is that
right?
That we talked about.
And I've loosely heard about it,but now as things get introduced
to you, it comes at you like afire hose.
So I met someone else last weekthat was a death duel.
And we'll ask, I'll ask somequestions around that.
(02:51):
I don't know that it's a newconcept, but I think it's a
newer concept for me out ofignorance.
And so I'm gonna probe you aboutthat.
Carter, I'm gonna open it up.
I'm gonna let you brag aboutyourself.
I'm sure I'm not doing youjustice, but go ahead, please.
Introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Hey, everybody.
My name is Carter Cundiff.
I live in Richmond or justoutside outside of Richmond,
Virginia.
I am a professionalphotographer, just like Chris
said.
And we work with just aboutanybody.
I joke at my weekly networkinggroups that if you're a human
being and you need photos, John,we can pretty much help you out
because I am part of a threeripher team.
(03:28):
So three women, we all arephotographers.
Our owner is Kate Styles.
That's the name of our company,Kate Styles Photography.
And it's a beautiful synergy asyou keep mentioning that word.
I love it.
Because when you put creativestogether, it can be tough
sometimes.
And so getting the ability tohave a owner that looks at us
like partners in the business.
(03:48):
And then we can effortlessly andauthentically do exactly what we
want.
That's the best thing forcreative.
We work with women, especially.
We do work with some men withthe branding that I do, but we
do women's portraiture, boudoir,branding in business, weddings.
We even do some families.
Really, it's the folks that cometo us for the other things
(04:09):
usually come and say, hey, wegot family photos we want to do.
Or grandma is not doing great,and we want to make sure that we
have photos with her, but wealso offer products and we have
a hair and makeup artist and apersonal stylist.
So we have a full team.
We really love working withpeople and bringing up a legacy
for them, no matter what part oftheir story that is.
(04:30):
That can be your passion, yourbrain, and your business, or it
can be the story of your lifeand your legacy.
And like you mentioned, Chris, Ilost my father in 2020, my
partner, we've been together alittle over a decade, and he
lost his dad in 2017.
So we've had some major losses.
And if it wasn't for the photosthat we have printed, those
(04:50):
memories would be gone.
I always emphasize that withpeople I'm talking to, whether
you're a client or not.
It's why it's so important to usto capture the essence of people
across our whole team, as wellas these moments that are
meaningful to them.
And sometimes they're sadmoments, sometimes they're
happy, exciting, sometimes it'sa transition you're accepting.
(05:11):
But regardless of what that is,we believe that you need to have
that experience of celebratingit for yourself, whatever it is,
and then having the memories togo back on.
And maybe it's for when you'reno longer here and it's the
people that love you most.
So yeah, hopefully that explainsa little bit about me.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
It does.
And I'm trying to figure out howyou can do portraits of me.
I'm trying to figure that outnow.
That's interesting.
You often think of photographyas, and I'm just thinking
because we're in the holidaymode, and I'm Catholic as most
people know, so I'm going totalk about Christmas.
So you think about Christmasportraits, and those are family
(05:49):
portraits, and it's uh static intime with your family.
My boys are 10 and 12.
But really going beyond that andtaking again myself as an
example of having so much lossand how you just eloquently
talked about capturing thatbefore, during, after, and in
(06:10):
that maybe in that recoveryperiod, I think that's very
interesting because you can lookback and you can see things as
an individual who's experiencedthat and wow, I was going
through that.
SPEAKER_03 (06:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
And I either put on a really good face or my
emotions were just showingthrough.
I think that's very interesting.
And for someone to understandthat and capture that element,
that's pretty cool.
That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
Thank you.
And especially to speak to thegrief piece, I know we're going
to talk more about that on how Ikind of photograph individuals,
but it does go across the board.
But the reason I'm able to focusin on that, one is because I've
worked through my grief.
I'm also the type of person thatlikes to talk about it.
I like to talk about him.
I like to keep him alive.
And that's just somethinginternally.
(07:00):
That's how I grieve, that's howI heal.
Not everybody heals the same.
And that's what kind of birthedthe grief photography side of
things for me is because it wasa need that I had.
It was the idea that I didn'twant to not be able to either
one, make new memories with him,and two, that I wanted to be
(07:21):
able to show others that it'sokay to celebrate that season
that was hard.
Because, like you said, it hasso many different elements that
come up with it, whether that'ssadness, joy, anger,
frustration, learning about themin a way you never thought you
would, especially a character.
Yep.
You you have this interestingcast over who they are, not
(07:42):
necessarily a hero always, butthere's something untouchable.
And when you get to that pointwhere, oh, they're no longer
here, and then you're learningabout things and that make them
human.
Right.
Especially as you become anadult.
Even when you are an adult, it'shard to hear those things
sometimes.
It was another campaign that Iwas working on, this grief
journey campaign photo sessionthat had nothing to do with
(08:03):
grief.
And I said, There's a sentimentthat's missing.
And it took one day, and I thinkI told you the story where I was
driving home getting fromgetting food, and I saw these
two gentlemen, don't know them.
They weren't even that close.
I couldn't see their faces, butsomething reminded me of my dad.
Maybe that was him just winkingat me.
I don't know.
And I just started crying.
And I said, that's what I need.
I needed to have that element,that sentimental, that grief
(08:28):
element.
And it all came to me.
And it was, oh, I need to do asession that gives you two
different products.
One that me sitting with you,letting you either talk about
the person that you're missing,whether that's a parent, a
sibling, a friend, whatever, achild, maybe it's a season that
you're transitioning out of thatyou thought was going to be
forever.
(08:48):
Maybe you have an illness thatdoesn't allow you to be the
person you really dreamed andhoped to be, because these other
people that are more able-bodiedor more just a different life
can do these things, but nowyou're grieving it.
It can be really multiplethings.
It doesn't have to just belosing a person in your life,
right?
But I wanted to give thisperson, whoever comes for this,
(09:10):
a place to talk about what itis, how it felt, and then me
photographing them as they'redoing such and as they're
explaining how they want tohighlight this person or this
season.
And maybe there's certainelements, things that I can
capture the essence of you andrepresent that.
Maybe it's a physical thing thatyou're wearing, like you can
(09:31):
visually see that representsthat, and then create what I
call a nine up.
And that's nine photos that kindof show the expression of how
that felt for that journey.
And that's one big print.
And then the idea for me was Ialso needed a new memory.
So I took another photo, and forme, it was representing my dad.
(09:52):
And he loved to dance, he lovedto laugh.
So it was me joyfully dancing.
And I had somebody, one of ourother sociophotographers, that
has her own grief andunderstands she was capturing
these photos for me.
And I even had a book that mydad read to me as a kid that he
read it so many times, Chris,which I'm sure you might
understand this, that he knew itby heart because 10 pages and
(10:13):
it's, I think it was hats forsale is what it's called, if
you've ever heard of it.
And, you know, that when I thinkof that book, I just go right
back to him reading it andmaking silly voices and all the
things.
By doing this for myself, I waslike, man, there's probably
other people that need this too.
It's one of those things where Italk about it, I share about it.
And then if somebody'sinterested, I love to hear what
(10:34):
it is that might make sense forthem.
Because it's not something thatI'm just sitting out here and
I'm gonna be marketing.
It's not one of those things.
I think it's the right peopleare gonna find me and need this.
Because again, I'm somebodythat's able to hold space for
folks in this season.
I can take myself out of it.
And I think that's a huge part.
Not everybody's available to dothat.
(10:56):
They don't, they're not at thatpoint in their life, and maybe
they never will be.
So it's not that I owe it toanybody, but I feel if I can,
why not?
Because then it also allows me aspace to talk to them about how
I can relate and how Iunderstand in a different way.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Um, so yeah, that's what how that birthed, where
that came along, and how I feellike I can be, like you said,
that person for other people andable to represent this visually
for them.
I could be that bridge because Ifigured out what I needed, and
then I can help others do thattoo.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Yeah, that's really important.
I just figured out something.
It took me a while to understandreally why we connected.
I understand on surface level,but you had said something, and
you probably understand thisnow, but I'm constantly in a
state of analysis when I'mtalking to folks.
Not a bad analysis, but I'm justreading their body language and
understanding things about them.
(11:48):
One of the things that you hadsaid is that you like to talk
about your grief and outwardlyexpression, and you didn't say
this, but I read between thelines, but you like to
assimilate with other peoplethat have shared a grief
experience.
And so in my training, I callthat being an intuitive griever.
(12:08):
And that's why you and I, itfinally dawned on me why we gel,
and it's because we share that.
And I'll just take that a stepfurther.
And the grief journey, mynatural style is intuitive, and
that means I like to assimilate,I like to talk about it, I
journal about it.
But sometimes you're not able todo that.
(12:28):
Um, and so then there's thisother grief that I talk about,
and it is more like technical,you just have to push forward.
And I call that an analyticalgriever.
And when there are just thingsthat are just in front of you,
and you just have to get throughthose things.
And that is an uncomfortablestyle for me.
And I imagine that would beuncomfortable for you as well.
(12:51):
But sometimes, as life wouldhave it, there are roadblocks
and you have to move aroundthose things.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I agree.
And analytical is the perfectword.
I'm very much the same as youare in that aspect in a lot of
life.
I've actually in the last year,as I've worked through, I think
I was telling you, I'm workingto become a shaman, and that is
a huge piece of the challengesare gonna come.
You have to feel through them.
You have to feel the emotions.
(13:17):
And another, I don't know ifmuch about human design, but
part of my human design, it'sanother like an analysis test of
your personality in a what mycoach would call is my
superpower is emotionalauthority is how I make
decisions in the world.
I go through the waves of thedifferent emotions.
And sometimes you have to speedthat process up, right?
(13:38):
You can't always take days anddays to make a decision.
One, I've been able to work ondoing that better.
I'd be interested to see ifyou've had to work on that too.
But I've also realized that one,really feeling the feelings and
not feeling like I have to mutethem because the world may have
told me to do so.
And you get more of an epiphanysometimes out of situations when
(14:01):
you truly feel the feelings,work through how that feels for
you.
Cause sometimes you realizemaybe it's more around me.
Maybe there's something I haveto work out with this other
person that I just didn't wantto face.
You can go across the board.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Does that kind of resonate with you at all or make
sense?
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
It does.
And you bring up a very specificincident.
So my parents' home, I hadalready sold my parents' home,
and I had to go back to thathouse for something.
I rented the house for a periodof years, and I had to go back
to the house.
And the the house is in myneighborhood and on the street.
(14:41):
The street, we a lot of theneighbors hang out.
So I went to the house.
It was the first time that Irealized that this house is no
longer in our name.
And even though I was rentingit, I was in and out of the
house.
I had no emotional attachmentsbecause the folks that they were
going to be in and out asrenters.
(15:02):
But once I signed the house overand I went to the doorstep, they
asked me to come in and I gotvery emotional.
I couldn't go in.
I physically could not go in thehouse.
And my kids were in the car, mywife was in the car, and we were
going someplace else.
And I took a moment and I knew Iwas going to have this burst of
emotion.
And I was having a little bit ofemotion when I was when we were
(15:24):
driving over to this otherfriend's house, but Anne Marie,
my wife, gave me the space andshe took herself and the kids
out of the car, and I needed amoment by myself.
Yeah.
And I just balled.
And you described that veryeloquently.
And that was a story that I justthought about as you described
that.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
I can think of a similar story specifically
related to property.
My grandfather, so this is mymom's dad.
Okay.
Um, he actually passed away at94 from his dementia.
SPEAKER_03 (15:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
That was the thing that really ended up taking him,
but he had many other thingsthat he had fought and really
tackled along like cancer andall kinds of things.
And it's not until I think aboutit this way now, was a core
place for our that side of ourfamily.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
And at many different points, after he and
my grandmother moved in when Iwas, I think before I was born,
multiple of us have lived there.
So while my parents werebuilding our house in the same
neighborhood as him, we wereliving there for a couple of
years while it was built.
When my parents had to sell ourhouse and I was 20, I had to
(16:32):
find a place to live becausethey were leaving the state or
leaving the area.
I moved back in with him.
My aunt and uncle were livingthere with him too.
And it was very much a beautifulhappening when it happened
because then all of us gotcloser and leaned on each other.
And while there was some crazystuff happening at the time, it
was something that I think weall needed was to be together
(16:54):
and to lean on each other andjust to get to know each other a
little bit better.
But when we had to put up hishouse for sale many years after
that, cleaned everything out.
My mom's like, hey, I want youto see if there's anything you
want to take.
I ended up getting to take hisdining room table.
That I just when I think aboutthat table, I think about the
Sundays that we all had pizzaand would eat dinner there.
(17:15):
I was the grandchild that waswith him all the time growing
up.
SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
They joke around that I was his favorite, but I
didn't spend so much time withhim.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
And so it was walking through that house with
nothing in it at one point.
And I sat in the back floor ofthe room that he had, and I just
sat there and I was just, Ididn't ball, but it was one of
those things of just like yousaid, where I'm not gonna get to
be here ever again.
I don't think I took it forgranted prior to that, but it
(17:44):
was so real.
And it's like when you losesomeone, I'm never gonna see
them in front of my physicaleyes ever again.
I'm not gonna hear their voiceand talk to them physically.
And that's such a, it can besuch a stark kind of realization
and kind of thing that your bodyhas to go through in your mind.
And that was another beautifulthing that I told you about
(18:04):
where we were talking aboutdeath doula.
I recently had a event for folksthat are grievers.
And because, like I hadmentioned before, there's things
that I didn't have for myselfand my friends that have dealt
with grief at a young age, orreally any age, and or
caregivers, what have you.
So I said, Oh, let me put on anevent with four panelists that
(18:25):
have stake in the game.
One was a funeral home director.
We had a death doula, we had agrief therapist, and then we had
a grief coach.
And I had three folks, soincluding myself, speak to a
story where they've lostsomebody, or maybe they were
grieving being a caregiver orgrieving the loss of their son
(18:45):
to suicide.
And then each of the panelistsafter each story would speak on
how could I have helped youduring that season?
It honestly worked out where Iended up doing it the week
before my dad's birth date andpassing date.
And I think I'm gonna do thatway every year because that's
gonna be something I can do forgood and honor him without
having to necessarily.
But all of that to say, one ofthe things that a couple of the
(19:08):
panelists said was when you stopsaying their name, that's like a
second death.
And that just really hit me in adifferent way because I'm like,
oh man, all I want to do is keeptalking about him.
But maybe in my mind, I wasfearing the others not talking
about him and then might forgetor you know, insert anything.
So all I have to say, I sounderstand what you felt like
(19:30):
you went through that daybecause, or you did go through,
because it can be the physicalthings, or it can be something
that's that hits you one day ayear from now, after they've
passed, or what have you, thatyou're actually surprised that
it hit you the way that it did.
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
Yeah, triggers, I call those.
Yeah, definitely triggers.
And they come at any point andany time.
And I like what you said aboutjust accepting people where they
are, holding that space.
I think that's very important.
And I look at folks that havebeen through experiences, and
some folks have not been throughtraumatic experiences.
(20:06):
And sometimes for me, it's alittle bit more difficult
encountering someone who has nothad a lot of experience.
And sometimes those individuals,not all the time, don't hold
that space or kind of just let'sjust get on with things.
Yeah.
And it doesn't work like that.
Not at all until you have thatexperience.
(20:28):
And I've commonly said this youfigure out stuff about yourself
when you hit rock bottom.
Whatever facet that is, and itdoesn't have to be in an attic
sense, it could be through nofault of your own.
But you definitely learn thingson the fly when you hit rock
bottom.
You don't have anybody else thatcan bail you out, and you have
(20:50):
no nothing else to rely onexcept yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
And that's a very humbling experience, but it's a
huge growth opportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (20:58):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
And I don't I'll take it a step further when you
hit rock bottom more than once.
So then it gives you a lot ofresilience.
And you talked aboutsuperpowers, which I think is
pretty cool.
But it's true, it gives yousuperhuman abilities.
And I'm not talking about likeSuperman like jumping out of a
(21:20):
window and flying.
I'm talking about being able tohold that space for someone that
has gone through a terribleexperience and knowing what to
say.
SPEAKER_03 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
And not because you've rehearsed it, but because
you've been through anexperience and you know how to
hold that space, knowing how togently guide them or give them
gentle advice to help them out,knowing some of the right things
to do for someone.
And I'd say something is small,and I get asked this question a
(21:54):
lot if someone close to me ispassed away, what can I do?
SPEAKER_03 (22:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:00):
And I say, you know what?
I could use some food.
And I don't feel like cooking.
SPEAKER_03 (22:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
And those are some of the things that I actually
offer because I know that sideof the fence.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
And so I see you extending the same courtesy, and
that's awesome that you're ableto do that.
I want to hear more about yousaid shaman, is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yes, that's correct.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
I want to hear more about that.
I like learning about thingsthat I'm ignorant, and I'm
probably going to find a bookabout it and read it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Awesome.
Okay.
I also grew up Catholic.
I think we mentioned it.
We personally talked about that.
And experienced all thedifferent phases of Catholicism
and grew up in that side ofthings.
My dad actually was Baptist andat 18 converted to Catholicism.
Um dating someone at the time.
And it's interesting how thefolks that convert, they
(22:51):
actually know much more than Ithink the average Catholic.
But not to say that's alwaystrue, but it's cool to see.
And he was somebody that wouldjust throw out all the random
facts you could think of.
Okay.
I feel like I was alwayslearning.
And now my partner, Kevin, he'sthe same way.
So I'll just go, yeah, just tellme things you want to tell me.
I'm happy to hear them.
I need to hear them multipletimes to understand them.
(23:11):
But I grew up in that moretraditional sense of religion.
And as I got older, things justdidn't quite fit for me, or I
felt there was maybe somethingelse that was missing, or just
maybe some hypocrisy in someaspects.
And this is just me personally.
I felt like I was told I wasbeing somebody that wasn't that
(23:34):
may go to hell or that was notgreat by the words that were
being spoken of, knowing I wasdoing things I maybe shouldn't
have been doing, or going downdifferent paths, but I was still
a kind and moral human.
Right.
I didn't give kindness toothers.
I wanted to love on otherpeople.
And my brain was like, oh, theseare the those are the
foundational pieces.
(23:55):
That's that and the integrity isimportant, all these things.
And so I said, okay, I'm gonnafigure myself out.
But I also respect everybody andwhat they feel is right for them
and the religion that makessense.
And I love to hear people talkabout it passionately if they're
open to talking back and forthabout it.
Or even if they're not, I'm Ican listen and then I can go my
(24:17):
way.
But it wasn't until probably alittle over a year ago, a couple
years ago, I met with a coach ofmine, and she was a life and
business coach.
She's also a modern-day shaman.
And she was telling me moreabout what she went through,
which is called the medicinewheel, and just a 12-month
process, and you learn about aPeruvian indigenous culture,
(24:39):
which is the specific to thespecific medicine wheel journey
she's referring to and whatshe's teaching us.
And mind you, I'm still on it.
So there's still things that I'mgonna get wrong and things I'm
not gonna say correctly, butit's the essence of the thing
for me.
Understanding your intuitiveabilities that we all have.
She loves neuroscience as well,so she kind of packs that in
there.
(25:00):
But it's understanding thosenatural and intuitive gifts that
you have, things that don'talways make sense logically to
some folks, but it's a feelingthat does make sense.
And that's even generalizing it.
But we're becoming as shamans,we're working on tools and
(25:20):
techniques that can help us workand heal on ourselves further.
It's going the seven layersdeep, right?
It's okay, I'm gonna face thislevel of trauma.
Okay, now that I've worked onthat.
She always gives us this analogyof skimming the pond, like
getting the scum off the top ofthe pond.
SPEAKER_03 (25:36):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Throwing the chemicals, they rise to the top,
you clear the pond.
That doesn't mean that there'sno scum that's gonna come back.
Deeper stuff that you got towork on now.
And so that's the same as yourtrauma.
You start with that first layer.
And what I've realized is I'mable to understand and see
things and situations that Icouldn't see before because I
was so hurt still on just themain thing.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
And there's a couple of deep trauma situations that
I've dealt with in time.
And it was very interesting howas I've kept working on it, and
this has been years of meworking on this on myself and
getting progress, but still notbeing able to get to a certain
level that I want.
And now I'm able to see certainthings I just couldn't see
(26:21):
before, how it manifested in myself-worth and who I am as a
person.
So it's been a very healingjourney for me working towards
this goal.
And it's also encouraged withoutme even saying things, people
just come to me naturally.
And I think we've talked aboutthis a little bit too, is they
(26:41):
just naturally come and theystart blurting out their stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Amazing how that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
But I believe this anyway, like regardless of what
you decide to with whetheryou're spiritual or you have a
religion that you follow, whenyou start to work on yourself,
and there's just a differentlight that comes out of you when
it's genuinely just working onyou and working towards being a
better version of yourself.
(27:06):
Doesn't necessarily mean you'rehappy all the time or you're not
ever sad.
And I think I had to realizethat too.
But you glow differently.
And that's not to necessarilyhave to bring it back to my
photography, but that's what Isee in people that they don't
see in themselves.
And so that's always if somebodyever say says that they see the
essence of the person in theirphoto or they're glowing or
(27:28):
they're like that makes methat's the best compliment a
friend or family member oftheirs could give them because
that's what I see, and that'swhat I want others to see in
them.
Because it's not uncommon thatthey've lost in themselves at
some point, especially as someof our women, because we mostly
work with women in the studio.
That happens often becauseyou've made yourself different
(27:50):
titles or maybe society.
You've become the mom, or thisis your job, all the different
categories that we get poppedinto.
And then we put ourselves lastif we think about ourselves at
all.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
And it's just, it's kind of it's just what a
blessing to have something inphysical form that you can look
back at and go, man, that's me.
Okay.
All right.
So I can stand a little tallertoday.
And sometimes that's thestarting step that it takes,
right?
I don't know.
I think all of those thingscombined together, and I think
working on this process tobecome a shaman is gonna help me
(28:25):
be a better person in society,but also relationships that I
have with friends, businessowners, my partner, my dog, I
don't know.
All the things that areimportant to me.
And then I'm giving back what Ifeel like people have given me
because it's been in the seasonswhere and I wasn't always this
(28:46):
self-aware.
It's been a self-help and tryingto better myself is something
I've always been on a track ofand I've always brought it in at
new phases.
I've learned what I needed to atthe time that I could
understand.
And then I level up when it's itstarts to feel tough again.
And I know we talked about thatand you have certain habits, but
(29:06):
then again, it's I don't know,that just that's what that is
for me and how I feel like I cangive that to other people
because there were moments inlife where I was so low.
And if it wasn't for thatpodcast recording, that book,
that person that just understoodand I didn't know why, that put
out their hand and said, Comeon, I'll just talk at me.
(29:29):
Like, or let's take a walk orwhatever that looks like that
can really be a lifesaver forpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (29:35):
Yeah, those glimmers of light.
Yeah.
You had brought up something,and I don't want to gloss over
it.
In regards to when you do thework yourself, you attract other
people.
And as you were describing it, Iwas thinking about like a
firefly.
We don't have fireflies here inFlorida, but in north of us, I
remember them when I was a kidin Kansas City at night, and how
(29:57):
mesmerizing fireflies are.
And everyone wants to catch afirefly or everyone wants to be
around a firefly.
And it's captivating in a sense,and I'm making this linkage,
when people realize that you arethat firefly and you're doing
the personal work and you exudethis light, this really bright
(30:20):
light, yeah, they want to be apart of that and they want to
understand how your light isshining so bright, especially
after you've hit some seriouslows.
Yeah.
Um, because I think thatresonates with a lot of people.
And I've often said this, andthis is me personally,
individually, that when you hitrock bottom, Chris Dale has a
(30:42):
couple of decisions.
You can either keel over anddie, you can be mediocre and
having a sucky life, or you canbe someone that has superpowers
and go through and do the hardwork, and there's no doubt it is
difficult work to get yourselfon the right side and
(31:04):
understanding how to enjoy lifeagain differently.
SPEAKER_03 (31:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
If you had asked me this question when my parents
passed away, I would have said,man, I don't know how I could
really enjoy life again.
But I'm gonna say thisselfishly.
I think I'm enjoying life betterthan when my parents were alive,
honestly, because I'm raisingtwo wonderful boys with my wife.
(31:30):
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
And to experience that aspect,if whoever wants to be a parent,
but for me, that's great.
And that's pretty cool.
And the aspect that I look at ittoo with regard to my parents is
that my parents were decliningin health.
And if they were alive decliningin health, I would have been
(31:51):
completely in that sandwichgeneration.
And I would have been takingcare of my parents and then
trying to raise my kids.
I don't have to worry about thataspect.
All I have to do is focus onraising two wonderful boys,
again, along with my wife, AnneMarie.
That's a pretty cool experience.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
And I see, yeah, and I see a lot of my friends whose
parents are still alivestruggling with that aspect,
still raising kids and thenhaving to worry about what's
going on with mom or dad.
That is stressful to worry aboutboth.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
And then you also have, because you think of the
sandwich generation and they'vegot their kids, and some of them
have multiple, and say it's theoldest kid, they kind of become
stuck in that loop too.
Because I'm thinking of otherfolks that, you know, are in my
circles and lots of caregiversaround.
And so it's affecting everybodyin the family.
(32:46):
Sure.
And also to say, to your effectof what you were saying is your
kids don't have to see that sidetoo.
They don't have to, not thatthey shouldn't be acquainted
with grief and death.
And it doesn't sound like that'sthe case for them.
It sounds like you probably havea healthy conversation with
them.
There's some folks that areafraid, they're afraid, so
(33:06):
they're afraid for theirchildren to be part of it too.
Or they just don't give themenough, they don't give them
opportunity to say, oh no, Ican't handle this.
They shield them from it.
But in that sense, for you, yousaid you're not having to
experience it and you can liveyour life with your kids.
And they in return get to alsodo the same thing, but have the
memories of your parents thatyou should.
SPEAKER_03 (33:26):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
And I think with my dad, it's a similar thing where
he can't imagine some of thethings that I'm doing in my life
and experiencing.
But I know he's proud.
And I know it's like in some wayhe's getting to live through
what I get to do that hecouldn't have imagined doing for
himself.
And you know what a gift thatis.
Yeah, really.
(33:46):
Even though I've beat myself upover it for years, maybe not
thinking I was what he mightwant, but that was also not very
fair to say either.
So but as an adult, you yourealize those things that don't
make sense as a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
I think your dad would be extremely proud of you.
And I think about again thatanalogy of hitting rock bottom,
and just imagine how great youhave done individually, Carter,
because you've had theseexperiences and what you're able
to do for other people.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
I didn't do anything other than recognize it.
So you did all the work.
I give props where they're due.
So feedback, thank you.
You're welcome.
You're noticing that I'm lookingdown because I'm taking notes.
So as I often do, you haveinspired me because there are
(34:37):
things that and I thought I'ddone a lot of work, but you make
me feel guilty about not doingenough personal development.
So I'm like looking at this ideaof a shaman, and I'm saying that
kind of jokingly, we all haveour own past, but this just
opened my eyes to just adifferent element.
When you were talking about it,I was thinking about the idea of
(35:00):
peeling back a banana, have thisaspect of all this stuff on the
surface, and you clear that, andthen you get down to the heart
of actually the banana, and youcan start digesting that and
really doing the internal workto really clear yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (35:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
To where you're at a place of healing too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
I don't want to forget about this death duela
idea.
SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
So I want you to talk about that too.
SPEAKER_00 (35:26):
I will share as much as I generally know.
I'm part of many networkinggroups, and like I'd mentioned,
I had an event recently, andthere's a couple of incredible
death jewels in our area.
And they honestly work throughfolks.
So think of like women who couldthink of a birth duel similar,
but more in the planning fordeath and in the experience of
when someone's passing.
(35:47):
Their heart is set aroundhelping you, like they could
even help you plan ahead of timeif you know something's coming,
what your wishes are, a localdeath jewel.
And she had a great examplerecently because she said it's
hard to explain because there'sso many things they can do for
somebody.
But recently there was agentleman, and I think it was he
didn't really have any familyleft, and he didn't have a lot
(36:11):
of people preceding him to takecare of his things.
He said, But what is it that'ssomething that you would want
cared for?
What do you feel like is yourlegacy once you're gone?
And he was an avid gardener,planter.
And he said, I just want mygarden to be taken care of or my
plants.
And so it was, those were thethings that he put his heart,
his time and sewed, right?
(36:32):
That he cared about.
And that can be so differentfrom person to person.
SPEAKER_03 (36:35):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
That's also different from what you want
versus maybe your spouse or yourchildren want for you.
It's important to have thosethings laid out.
And a death jewel is there tohelp you passing, but also to
help your family in a sense.
There's really so many thingsthat they can do.
And they have people, they havea great network that they can
connect to to folks that say youneed a lawyer for certain
(36:57):
things.
They'll they have a greatnetwork to do so.
Um, she's partnered with funeralhomes and senior care
facilities, I believe.
I'd be happy to connect you witha couple of my favorite folks
that are here in Richmond, justso you can hear more about it
and learn if you want.
They're more than happy to sharebecause it's so common that they
walk into a room and people likeyou said, What is this?
(37:19):
What do you do?
SPEAKER_02 (37:20):
Yeah, you inspired me.
So when you brought up theconcept, I think I've loosely
heard of it, but I didn't reallydig into it.
So I had an experience lastweek, actually.
So I had a client that passedaway.
He was a 20-year client, and hepassed away.
We had a very uniquerelationship.
He was married early in life, hehad no children, and this
(37:40):
gentleman was 84 when he passed.
And so the unique experiencethat I had was he knew
everything about my life, whathappened with my parents, and he
and my dad were very close inage.
And so this gentleman, Iessentially helped him get into
retirement.
He was physically responsible,but I just molded him to be able
(38:03):
to retire within a probably twoyears after we met.
And then he had 19 years inretirement.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (38:11):
With me, and he only really wanted one thing.
He just wanted to look at asheet of paper and know that he
had a magic number and it wasthere every time that we met.
That was all that he caredabout.
He didn't care about the hoursthat I spent behind the scenes
working for that.
And so our relationship was suchthat I would go see him when I
was working for someone else.
(38:32):
But then when I created my owncompany, I could go see him as
often as I wanted to.
So I'd go see him once a month,maybe a couple times a month,
and we'd have a field trip.
He'd like to go to the gunrange.
That was his thing.
And so, again, meeting peoplewhere they are.
And so I would go with him.
And then it really turned intoafter that, we were probably
only at the gun range for maybe15 minutes.
(38:54):
And then we would go to hishouse and spend a couple hours,
and he would just talk, and hewould tell me all kinds of stuff
about his life.
SPEAKER_03 (39:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
And he would always make coffee, some of the highest
end coffee I've ever had, and itwas completely black.
And then he'd give me a snack,like a little bar.
And so we'd just sit there for acouple hours and just chit-chat.
And so, fast forward lastSeptember, I noticed he was
declining.
And I've known a lot of stuffabout him.
(39:24):
He got in an accident.
I think he he had a medicalevent.
So I had to intervene.
And we had done his estateplanning in advance of that.
His famous words were, Chris,just take care of it.
And so he just, Chris, just takecare of it.
And he just had that trust inme.
And I'm getting to the point ofyou had mentioned this idea to
(39:44):
me about a death doula.
And so my experience with myparents and having my mother in
a nursing home with my client,knowing his final wishes.
SPEAKER_03 (39:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
And I took care of it.
And I'm putting my fingers upquotation, because I put myself
in a position where if I'm asingle guy in my 80s, don't have
any kids, was married 40 yearsago, would I care about where
any of my assets go?
Probably not.
SPEAKER_03 (40:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
And so that was the same thing with him.
But I said the important aspectfor you in terms of doing an
estate plan, knowing that youcould care less, if you become
incapacitated, I can't give youyour own money.
That's a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (40:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:25):
So if you have to pay the hospital or if you have
to pay someone or you have to dosomething, I can't give you your
own money.
So that was when he's like,okay, just take care of it.
Found an attorney, long-termattorney that I've had a very
good relationship with.
She did the paperwork and Isupplied her all the
information.
Again, me just taking care ofit.
And he showed up to the firstmeeting so she could verify that
(40:47):
he was an actual person.
And then the second meeting, hesigned all the paperwork.
That was October, November.
He had this event in January.
That was how close it was.
And then fast forward, he hadbeen declining October-ish.
And he actually went into arehab facility after his bounce
in the hospital, in and out ofthe hospital.
(41:09):
And I always remembered hiswishes because we had so much
dialogue.
He has a close personal friend.
It's more a daughter, I guess.
And she's very emotionallyattached.
And I could see it.
She lives upstairs and she wouldcheck on him on a regular basis.
And so she was feeling, I don'tknow, if guilty, but she was
(41:30):
feeling bad having to leave townto do some things that she
needed to take care of.
And I come in and I say, okay, Iknow his wishes.
He needs to be taken care of.
They need to be looked in.
And he only had myself, hisfriend, and then the attorney.
Those are the only people thathe really had.
And I'm like, why don't we justhire a companion to come and
visit him in the rehab facilityfour hours a day, seven days a
(41:50):
week?
SPEAKER_03 (41:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
And I mentioned that to his friend, and she's oh my
gosh, that's such a stressreliever.
And for me, it did a couple ofthings.
It relieved her, the emotionaltoll it was taken on her.
It also provided me a system ofchecks and balances to where I
could evaluate the facility on aregular basis.
(42:12):
And again, all he said to me is,can we afford it?
I said, Yes, we no, we can't.
You can afford it.
We can't.
This is not a we, this is yourmoney.
This is not my money.
But I said to him, if you weremy father, this is something
that I would do for you.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
And so, really to the heart of the matter, doing
what is in the best interest,and this goes beyond business.
This is just a human element,doing what is in his best
interest so he has the mostcomfort for his lasting days.
And so during that process, whenwe first hired the companion,
there were some missteps by therehab facility.
(42:50):
So I go there with my wife AnneMarie, and I said to him, I
said, I'm going to step out ofthe room.
Don't hit on my wife.
That's what I said to him.
And he's laughing.
So I go out of the room and heknows and I said, I got to take
care of something.
And he knows what I'm in.
He had some a couple of concernshimself.
So I'm going to go take care ofa couple things.
And then I come back and he seesthe serious look on my face, and
(43:13):
he smiles and he starts tolaugh.
And I'm like, What are youlaughing at?
He was like, You just you tookcare of it.
And so because he saw that I wasserious, and then he was like,
Chris, I like making you work.
I said, You definitely made mework here.
But he had this high degree oftrust and compassion that he was
(43:37):
being taken care of.
And there's that delicate linewhere I know that they talk
about sometimes seniors can betaken advantage of.
And but I've known this guy fora long time and he knew what
I've gone through, and he hadcomplete trust in me.
And then I got a call from hisattorney.
I was at a conference last week,and then he passed away.
(44:00):
I knew he was going to pass awaybecause of my hospice training.
The companion was reporting tome that his breathing was
slowing and he wasn't eating asmuch.
And then after he passed away,obviously the emotional toll is
going to take place.
I'm going to go see my therapisttomorrow to take care of myself.
But man, I felt really goodabout his last days and how I
(44:22):
had a part of that.
And based on my experience andme taking care of myself to have
a space to be clear-headed andthink about those things and
react or be a little bit moreproactive.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
It's just like he doesn't know how to do those
things for himself.
SPEAKER_02 (44:39):
Correct.
That is correct.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
It's wonderful, Chris, and any type of
interaction or situation thatyou're in.
Being analytical probably ishelpful with some of this, but
you're so integral with anythingthat you're setting your mind
to.
Because you're, like you said,it's just the human thing to do.
Right.
And with what you dospecifically and who you're
working with, that is such animportant element in caring
(45:02):
about the people and servingthem the way that you do.
Because anybody could do whatthey want with people's money
and give them advice that worksfor them.
You're not that kind of guy.
But it's just that's I hope youunderstand how wonderful that is
that you are that way and thatyou're doing that for your,
you're doing such a service toyour clients.
And clearly with this story,that explains it.
(45:23):
He said, I've got full trust inyou.
I know you're going to take careof me and not take advantage.
SPEAKER_02 (45:27):
Sure.
And I'm feeling I'm not, I'mfeeling that there's a fine
line.
And so his attorney, I'm nowchecking in with the attorney
because there is a businesselement to this too.
And this relationship went wellbeyond the scope of just
managing money.
Well beyond the scope.
(45:48):
There was a couple of guys atthe conference.
They said, Do you think that's anew business model for you?
And I said, Absolutely not.
That's not something that I wantto focus on.
But I said, in my practice,because I'm very selective of my
clients, that is a service thatI would offer them if they
(46:08):
needed it.
And I just thought about that.
And so with this particularclient, it was a full gamut.
And it made me understand, andthank you for the compliments.
It made me understand the truelife cycle that I had the
ability to imprint a positivelife for someone else.
(46:29):
Never thought of it that wayuntil this gentleman went
through that whole life cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
It was a really good feeling.
A really good feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
That's the combo of when intention meets impact,
having the intention and notneeding the result, not needing
the impact necessarily, but thenthat makes it all the greater
when you feel it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (46:50):
Um for sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (46:51):
Yeah.
So cool.
This has been a greatconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
Yes.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:57):
So thank you so much.
I want to give you anopportunity, and I'm going to
put this in the meeting notes,in regards to how folks can find
you.
SPEAKER_00 (47:06):
So a few ways that you can either find more
information about the team thatI was telling you about that I'm
part of as a photographer.
Our full team is under KateStyles Photography.
So you can find us at ourwebsite,
katestylesphotography.com.
And Styles is spelledS-T-Y-L-E-S.
Like Styles, that is her at likeactual last name.
(47:27):
People ask us that all the time.
You can also find me onInstagram at Carter underscore
KSP.
And that is just me as theassociate and all of the
different work that I do,whether it's women's
portraiture, grief, weddings,boudoir, the whole gamut.
You learn a little bit about me,even my partner.
Because when I started out witha team, I did more couples
(47:49):
photography.
And then I transitioned andevolved as we all do with our
craft.
But those are probably the bestways that you can get in touch
with me there.
Or if you want to email me, it'sbranding by carter.ksp at
gmail.com.
Always interested in havingfurther conversations about
whether if something resonatedwith you, just hearing what if
(48:12):
it if there's an impact or ifyou have questions.
I love being communal andconnecting with folks.
It's my favorite thing and kindof what keeps the world going
for me.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
So it's your jam.
SPEAKER_00 (48:23):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (48:25):
So I'm gonna put that information in the notes so
folks can reach out to youdirectly.
And I think you're gonnaresonate with a ton of people.
So I don't think I know that youare.
I will do that.
And in the process, of we,Carter and I have got introduced
through the company, and I'mkeeping that under wraps, I'm
(48:46):
keeping that in suspense alittle bit.
But this season is about mewriting a book.
And so you fit into that becauseof what you do.
And so as I'm learning aboutwriting a book is not only about
writing a book.
There's a ton of other elementsthat go in.
(49:06):
I'm going to be formallylaunching, and I'd invite anyone
that wants to be part of thelaunch process to join that.
And I will put more informationin the notes for this podcast as
well.
So I'm excited, and that's howCarter and I got introduced.
Carter, anything else you gotfrom your end?
SPEAKER_00 (49:27):
I think we covered everything.
I think I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (49:30):
Okay.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (49:33):
Yes, you're welcome.
And for anyone in the audience,cheers be well.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Thanks for listening to our podcast.
If you are a client and arelooking to work directly with
Chris andor our firm, head onover to Life After Grief FP.
That is Life After Grief FP.
The FP is for financialplanning.
If you are an advisor looking toemotionally and financially work
with your client in grief, or ifyou are a client looking to get
(50:05):
your advisor's head in the game,head on over to LifeAfter Grief
Consulting.com.
That is LifeAfter GriefConsulting.com.
Any related informationreferenced in this week's
podcast will be located here inthe podcast section.
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