From Vegas Blackouts to Sober Victories: Nathan's Roller Coaster Recovery

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Nathan shares his powerful journey from childhood trauma to finding lasting recovery after multiple relapses. His story reveals how early exposure to family addiction, violence, and loss shaped his relationship with substances and his path to healing.

• Experienced significant childhood trauma including his grandmother's murder when he was eight
• Found early escape through sports but struggled with anger and fighting throughout his youth
• Developed alcoholism and drug addiction following his father's pattern
• Experienced the typical "six to eight month" sobriety cycle before relapsing multiple times
• Reached rock bottom after his friend's suicide and a Thanksgiving Day drinking binge
• Achieved five years of "dry" sobriety before hitting an emotional bottom
• Finally found true recovery through working all Twelve Steps with a sponsor
• Transformed his relationship with his higher power by viewing God through the lens of his own fatherhood
• Now maintains sobriety through service work, including speaking at meetings and sponsorship
• Lives by the powerful reminder that "the magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding"

If you're struggling with addiction or know someone who is, remember that it's never too late to surrender and find recovery. The pain of change is far less than the pain of staying the same.

Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, we're going to go to work.
You sit on the toilet, don'tyou Use that as your meditation?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to
this podcast has eaten a shitsandwich we didn't have a hand
in making.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello Rob.
Oh, ain't time yet.
Shut up, larry.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
We are not professionals.
There are no letters after ournames.
We know very little.
However, you will hear the wordGod in a whole other world in
the same system.
You will also be offended.
So if you are easily offended,just pass us by.
This podcast is meant for you.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our opinions are just that.
If you don't agree with whatwe're saying, that's okay.
We're going to love you anyways.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
We are not in any way affiliated with AA, so sit back
, grab a beverage of your choiceand we'll get ready.
Let's go, are you serious?
Hello, robert.
Hey, larry, welcome back.
What's with the drums?
That was a new one, I don'tfucking know.
No, at least there's no baby.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hey, you know what?
I'm gonna make an amends righthere to our, to our listeners,
our last.
Are you really swollen?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
did you hear that?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
come across why are we all seen?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
so low, I don't know.
But see, now I sound good.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Don't fuck with it there you go with the f-bombs,
don't mess with it.
Thank you hey, what did you say?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
you're making amends.
I am but our last two episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Katie and I were coming down the road, driving
down the road and, uh, she waslike larry, the f-bombs are
horrible and I'm like that ain'tthat bad and then the very next
episode.
That was the first one werecorded, then the next one.
I think it was 37 that werecorded.
Yeah, that was bad, it got offthe rails.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
We were wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
We were.
Doug texted me and says, hey, Iran out of ink counting the
F-bombs, yeah, and you knowwhat's funny, and so I want to
apologize to our listeners.
It did get off the rails alittle bit, right, it was pretty
bad.
So I mean, for most of thepeople that know me and know you
, it was normal well, we'resupposed to be getting better.
It's not normal discussion.

(01:46):
No, but you got worked up andthen I got worked up and then I
feed off of you, because I onlydo what my sponsor tells me to
do.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah bullshit, bullshit hey but, why?
But why did it happen?
What didn't we do before?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
we didn't pray, we did not we didn't pray before
either one of those episodes.
Do we pray?
No, I once again.
It's my sponsor's fault.
No, absolutely.
You know, last week we talkedabout sponsorship and you know I
follow my sponsor.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
And if he doesn't piss you off, you got a terrible
sponsor.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
My toys, you know.
And then the other night Ispoke at primary purpose and I
said I spoke for I don't know,35, 40 minutes.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Not even one 20 minutes, not even a shit, not
even an ass came out of my mouth?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
No, it was great Nothing, it was perfect.
And then the poor guy that cameup and got his chip right after
I started yeah, he threw aboutfive F-bombs in a matter of two
sentences.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
But did you see why we were getting pushed right?
You know you're through it asyou get and I love her to death,
but as you gain sobriety right,you're supposed to gain
maturity, and she was rushingeverybody just to get to you.
So she's getting 47 years.
Jeanette did I'm gonna say hername, I don't care and she was
rushing everybody's got to makeit quick.
Make it quick so she could, youknow.
So no one left by the time shegot hers.
That's so still, you know,there's still a lot to be done,

(03:01):
even though you've got 47 yearsof sobriety.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
There's still work to be done.
She wanted everybody, butthat's okay.
If I have 47 years and I'mstill alive, I want to make
everybody stand on their headand listen to me talk.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'll be dead.
I don't know what would I be 47years old.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'd be 90.
I'd be over 38.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'd be 96.
Last week, uh, who had twoweeks ago, had 37 years sobriety
and he got sober at 37 in hisage and I said, well, if I do
mine, I said 74, which is stupid76, I'll be 76 years old.
If I make that, you'll make it.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, hey, it's only sunday yeah, yeah, right, so we
have a guest.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Who?
Who's our guest?
I don't know.
Guest introduce yourselves drumroll.
Don't do a fucking drum roll,though.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
I am Nathan Nathan.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, couldn't help myself.
Perfect Hello, nathan.
Welcome in.
What's up, larry?
Are you nervous A little bit?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Nathan's going to tell his story.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
You know what's funny is everybody, when they first
start, is nervous.
Jason Allen, when he firststarted he was super nervous,
Shit.
He went off for three and ahalf hours once he got started.
So you'll get in, You'll betelling your story and you'll
forget that these microphonesare here and you'll just
remember we're just threebuddies and sitting around
talking and telling our stories.
So tell us a little bit.

(04:23):
Tell us what happened.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
All right, I'm going to start where I usually start,
about six years old.
Wow, it's when I really firstremember anything around that
age, and the reasoning why Iremember that age is because of
the deaths in the family.

(04:46):
My great-grandpa died, mygreat-great-grandma died,
another great-grandma died likeall within the same, like four
or five years old that you don'teven understand what death is
really.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yet Right.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
And my great-grandpa.
He was someone that was.
I never met any of my regulargrandpas, so my great-grandpa
was the man figure that I lookedup to the most and still want
to be like him the most out ofany of the male figures in my

(05:23):
family.
Your dad wasn't around much, mydad was.
We'll get.
We'll definitely get to my dad.
Sorry, I didn't mean to jump onthat.
He's a big part of myresentments and my upcoming.
So yeah, that was after that.
Some of the memories I have areof my, my father, of him, uh,

(05:48):
being verbally abusive to my mom.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay, and always being always drunk, um and you
remember that as a very youngage.
Yeah, yeah and go.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
I remember going fishing with him real young and
and being on the side of thebank and not having anything to
drink for me, but there was a12-pack of beer, and so then
that's where my very first drinkwas.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Was on the side of the river with my dad, like you
were getting a soda Right, right, and I mean I remember it
tasting horrible.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah Right.
Well, we don't drink beer fortaste.
Never did Right.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Um, but yeah, that was.
That was my first drink on theside of the river with my dad.
And then today, now I canrealize that at least he was
taking me out to the river Right.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, and so I could see the good in things.
Today it's not just all the badthat I focus on anymore.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
How long did it take you to come to that
understanding, though?

Speaker 4 (06:53):
It was probably within the last couple of years
where I really started.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Understanding that Okay.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
More so, looking at the positive, in things and
being in gratitude instead ofjust all negative Nice.
Okay.
So, yeah, and my dad, he was inand out of jail my whole life.
I remember many, many timesgoing and visiting him in jail.
Some of the times it was behindthat glass with the telephone.

(07:27):
Oh, wow, okay and then that's ashitty memory and then I
remember some, some of the timeswhere, uh like at the old honor
farm, okay, you were able tosit at a table and actually have
a real and um so uh.
I remember calling the cops onmy dad as a young kid because

(07:51):
because him being so verballyabusive to my mom, he was never
physically abusive, not in frontof me at least.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
When you say, uh, when you were real young, do you
know about what age you had tocall the cops on him?

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Oh yeah, this is still like seven years old, okay
, okay.
Wow, wow.
And then so when I was um, whenI was eight years old, my
grandmother, my mom's mom, wasmurdered by my dad's uncle, and
so grief.

(08:25):
So, yeah, that turned my wholeworld upside down.
Um, I feel like I not only lostmy grandma right then, but I

(08:47):
lost my mom's bedroom door andcrying and trying to get her to
come out, and she she wouldn'tcome out of her room for weeks
at a time, she would be justlocked in her bedroom.
And who was taking care of you?
Oh, I was taking care of myself.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Wow, perfect, yeah, so he's got a great I mean I say
a great story, I mean havingbeat him going through it with
nathan powerful story, wow, yeah, so go ahead so, yeah I, I was
doing my own laundry, I waswalking to school, um, you know,
doing all that type of stuffand what town?

Speaker 1 (09:19):
what town this?
Is all in manteca okay, allright, so not a small town no,
it's all right.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
It was a lot smaller back then and then it is now.
But yes, it was still biggerthan oakdale.
Yeah, um, and this was when, uh, I started learning to deal
with my emotions in a, in a withanger okay and I got in a lot

(09:49):
of fights and so in this timeperiod we had moved multiple
times um.
So we get to a new school.
There's a you know, I get thereand there's whoever the bully
tough guy is on campus.
I'm going and fighting himright off the get.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Marking your territory.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, you know that alpha type mentality Right, but
now I can identify it as that'sI just in so much pain.
I wanted someone else to feelpain, right, understandable
absolutely so yeah, and duringthis time period there was all

(10:33):
kinds of people drug addicts andalcoholics running in, you know
, through our house we had, wewent from living in a we had to
explain that because you guysgot some money when grandma was
murdered yeah, that's where Iwas getting okay um, we went
from a two-bedroom house to uh,I think my mom inherited like
half a million dollars.
Wow, okay, um, I don't buy a lotof drugs yeah, and so we went

(10:56):
into a big five-bedroomtwo-story house with um very
little furniture in the house itwasn't your average uh house in
the neighborhood right, right,um.
So yeah, there was a lot ofpeople hanging around because
the money was there right and umyeah, I remember opening

(11:20):
underneath my uh kitchen sinkand there just being all kinds
of empty hard alcohol bottlesand hot damn was one of the
things I remember sponsored bythat was uh before fireball
right right, yeah, right nowit's smirnoff or no, not
smirnoff yeah is it?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
uh, I don't know I don't know.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, I don't think it's smirnoff no, I don't either
.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Smirnoff was a um, yeah, fucking alcoholics are we?
We can't remember that shit.
I didn't drink that pussy.
Yeah, I don't think it's.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Smirnoff?
I don't either.
Smirnoff was a.
What kind of fucking alcoholicsare we?
We can't remember that shit.
I didn't drink that pussy shit.
I was Jack Daniels dude.
I need no cinnamon, I'd chewgum.
If I want cinnamon, I'd chewsome Big Red Right.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
So you know, one of the next things that really
happened that was significantwas I joined the football team.
Okay and Pop Warner, yeah, popWarner football.
About eight years old, nineyears old maybe, and I loved
football.
I fell in love with football,just kind of like.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Larry, because you got to.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
That's what he shared on Friday Got the hit baby the
primary.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
You got to hit people and it's okay to do it.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's even encouraged.
Harder you hit, whack themHarder you hit, the more the
coach loved you.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, so I played very little the first year right
, my rookie year and then thenext season I really started
getting involved more.
The coach actually moved me torunning back.
Okay.
And I was at running back formaybe two weeks and my dad's

(12:55):
brother stole the coach's carphone.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Was that like the bag phones back then?

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yes, Is this in the 90s?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (13:03):
mid-90s.
This was 98 maybe somewhere inthere 97 right and uh yeah, so
the the the board voted and theykicked me and my sister off the
football team awesome becauseyour uncle she was in
cheerleading yeah, no, it'sfootball.
Um, wow, yeah.

(13:26):
And so this, this Because youruncle she was in cheerleading
yeah, no, it's football.
Wow, yeah.
And so this between my dad'suncle and my dad's brother and
my dad right, this is like wheremy resentments really started
brewing towards my dad, my dad'sfamily, right Towards my dad,

(13:46):
my dad's family yeah, and so Iwould stand by the fence and
watch them practice footballevery day on my bike and just be
crying right there watchingthat.
I couldn't be there because thatwas my outlet, right Right.
I hated my home life.
I hated school because I wasalways in trouble, which was

(14:07):
self-induced right but, um, youknow, either sat in the back of
the classroom or the front,depending on which teacher it
was, so they could keep an eyeon you, or or put me as far away
as possible right um, but yeah,then.
Then my dad, one day I was at mygreat-grandma's house, which

(14:33):
was that great-grandpa that Isaid that I lived up to.
My great-grandma was where Ispent most of my time, where I
spent most of my time, and I wasat her house one night and my
dad comes in and and he's beenon the run for a while and your
dad yeah Okay.

(14:55):
And coming down, probably, orwhatever, right.
And he um falls asleep on thecouch and then there's a knock
at the door and it's the cops.
And I go, wake up my dad tellhim the cops are here.
He takes off out the back doorand I opened the.

(15:15):
I opened the door and at thistime I didn't know, you didn't
have to let the cops in thehouse, right?
But, I did because they asked meif they could come in yeah you
could come in right, right andum, he climbs up on the roof and

(15:37):
jumps off of the the roof rightin front of a big window in the
living room and see, your dadjump.
I see him jump and I see allthe cops and the cop dog all
jump on him.
Wow and uh.
So then I start.
That's like where theresentment towards, like, law
enforcement and all that startright there because they're
taking your dad away right andthat, and he went to prison this

(15:59):
time he had done been to countyenough times that, uh, he ended
up going to prison.
um, he had done been to countyenough times that he ended up
going to prison, and yeah.
So then it's just me and my momand my sister, and actually my

(16:25):
little my brother was bornalready.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
They were both, they were both born and what's the
age difference between you andthe brothers?

Speaker 4 (16:32):
my uh, there's one 11 years younger than me and that
one that's like 12 and a halfyears younger.
Wow, okay, and so we all uh endup moving to oakdale, and this
is in sixth grade.
Okay.
So you know, 12 years old orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Foothill.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
And it wasn't foothill then, though it was
after that.
That was junior high.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Oh Right, it don't matter Sorry.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, it's sixth grade.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Where'd you go to sixth grade at?

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Fair Oaks, fair Oaks, okay, fair Oaks, fair Oaks,
okay, yeah.
And so then you know, this ismy Like Seventh or Sixth,
seventh school that I've been to.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Since kindergarten.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
At this time, and I come to Oakdale- Poor thing and.
Yeah, self pity right.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Oakdale Of all people Places.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, but so I signed up for wrestling Right when I
got here good for you there's aflyer in the in the mail and I
signed up for wrestling and I um.
I found something else that Iloved right and that really
helped in that one-on-one combatright that I always, um always
seeked in school hours.
I finally got to do and youknow same crap.

(17:52):
I got into fights, lots offights still dealing with my
stuff, with anger.
My dad gets out of prison andhe comes to Oakdale and moves in
with us.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Your mom and dad still married?

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yeah, they actually got married right after he got
out of prison.
So he can move to StanislausCounty.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh, okay.
All right Perfect.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
And so he was on parole and I was in football
again and stuff.
And I don't think there werebackground checks back then for
coaches.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Probably not.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
And he was one of my football coaches and he was
sober at this time, for a minute, wasn't he?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, he was completely sober, Worked every
day, was a decent dad good atthis time um, so you had
glimpses of it, of what he couldbe yeah, he.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
He definitely showed me what what he could be and and
what us kids deserved.
Good um, and I, I loved my dad,my dad, you, I always have
loved my dad.
I wanted to be around him allthe time and you know that goes

(19:12):
back to like those fishing tripsand all of that Right right.
And so we went through thatfootball season.
The next football season hewasn't on parole anymore.
Oh, wow.
The day that he got off paroleListen to this he started
drinking.
Wow All right and so.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And how fast did that go downhill?

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh, it was instant, it was instantaneous.
He was full-blown alcoholic allover again.
Um, and we so during thatfootball season, like you know
how riverbank high there.
Um, because there was aredskins back then, river oak

(19:59):
redskins.
Um, you can see the field fromthe parking lot, and so he'd
park where he can see the fieldand he would be drinking his
beer and watching the game fromthe parking lot.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
A lot of people would do that.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, and at this time I'm going and running
around with my dad to his shadyplaces and drinking with him,
with him, and now he's.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
He's introduced you to.
I may not introduce you to, buthe was I mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hewas just you'd have a beer and
he'd have a beer.
Oh yeah, that was just yeahyeah, he, he.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
And how old were you?
Junior high?
Yeah, this was junior high wowum.
And so for every touchdown thatI scored, I got a 32 ounce um
miller high life, because theywere $1.25 back then wow, what a
reward.
Yeah, yeah, so you know, I'dscore two to four touchdowns a

(20:56):
game right, I mean, I got enoughfor me and my buddy, right.
Paragene 101.
Good grief.
And then you know, goingthrough high school I didn't
really go to the high schoolparties and stuff.
I knew where they was going toend up.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
I knew I was going to end up at a high school party
there's no doubt about it um.
So I really didn't do much ofthat, um, and I got expelled
sophomore year for fighting.
So I threw away all of mywrestling, all of my football.

(21:38):
All of you know I was of courseyeah, I was on varsity as a
freshman in wrestling.
All right, I was uh in footballsophomore year I got moved up
for playoffs for uh onto varsity, yeah and um.
So everything I had going forme, it was just all thrown away

(22:01):
because temper yeah just angerright and and uh pride and ego
right um, you know, I wanted tobe the biggest, baddest dude
there was.
Even though I wasn't that bigright, I still was going to show
you I'm not scared, right?
Um, and so from there I movedto mantica.

(22:24):
Shortly after that, you movedback back to mantica um with my
cousins and uh now, how much isdrinking?
any drugs yet taking apart, ohperfect yeah, I, I actually I
started I first time right afternot long after I got expelled.
I used meth for the first timeand it was there in summer and

(22:45):
and I, uh, I would, just I woulddo it on a weekend or whatever,
and um party drink, yeah.
And then, and then I noticed itwas starting to get out of hand
and I told my girlfriend inManteca about it and so I went
and moved to Manteca.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Change geographical change right.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Right, and so I did that, and it worked with the
hard drugs for a pretty longperiod of time actually, but
whenever there was, we had a UFCparty and and were you training
with the Diaz brothers aboutthis time?
Yeah, yeah, that this is when Istarted training with Nick and
Nate Diaz.
Um, cause, my cousins grew upwith them and so, yeah, we went

(23:38):
and trained.
I went and trained every day,and and then, um, were you
working?
And I wasn't working, really.
Okay, actually, I went back toschool, but it was Manteca 1.
It was called a one program andit was for kids that had gotten
expelled from high school.
I got expelled from thedistrict, not just high school,

(23:59):
okay, so there was only acertain type of school I was
able to go to, and and I gotkicked out of there as well,
like, um, good for you.
You were gonna be the best atsomething okay I see a pattern
yeah, well, yeah, I got expelledfor trip for fighting and I

(24:20):
moved to manteca and went,started training how to fight,
right, right, well, um, but yeah, so this is when I remember
alcoholism really starting, likeI drank with my dad and stuff,
right, that was like thebeginning of it.
But when I was in manteca, likeI said, there was those UFC

(24:43):
fight parties and stuff we wouldhave, and I remember just
getting so drunk and being inthe bathroom thrown up while the
fights are going on and all thereal fun is actually going on.
I thought there's a bunch ofalcohol showing up.
I drank until I was done.

(25:03):
And same thing when we went toVegas.
There was the night of theweigh-ins and I got wasted drunk
as soon as we got to Vegas andI wake up and everyone's gone at
the weigh-ins and I'm allpissed off because everyone just
left without me, right, blamingeveryone else for what I did.

(25:25):
So, yeah, this is when.
Now, looking back, I can seewhen it actually started.
How old were you about thistime?
This was 17 or so.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
So you're traveling to Vegas at 17.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Awesome, oh yeah, I went down to Vegas at 17.
Awesome, oh yeah.
And you know, the cousins go upto get the drinks and come hand
me a drink, and I'm walkingaround the casino with a drink
in my hand so no one ever saysanything, because I already have
a drink in my hand.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Right Know the tricks .

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I did them too yeah.
Yeah, and it's a littledifferent back then than it is
today in Vegas.
Right, they let you get awaywith a little more than they do
now For sure For sure, as longas you're spending money, really
that's all they care.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
So I was doing that back in 88.
So they really didn't give ashit back then.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
And by this time by the age of 17,.
I mean according to most.
I mean because I've heard a lotof fifth steps and stuff, but
you've been through.
I mean you've come on that's.
You've been through it as achild.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Already at 17.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Damaged.
I mean, just amazing.
Okay, so here we go.
So I ended up moving back intoback to Oakdale.
The girlfriend moved back withme to great grandma's house.
That was always my place, whereI always was Now before.

(26:55):
I even moved to Manteca I done,packed all my stuff and moved to
great-grandma's house before,because I wasn't putting up with
my dad's and my mom's shit backwhen I was out of there and my
mom's shit back when I was outof there.
So when I moved back, weeventually break up and that was
my first love, and so afterthat you know.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
You've lived a lifetime before you even turned
18.
You lived more shit by the timeyou were 18 than most people do
their entire fucking life andhow old were you when we met,
like when you started workingfor tea?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
we would show up because this is what I was still
drinking and doing, whateveryou know, because they would.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
We have usc fight night in each other's house and
we would tear the fucking houseup and nate was just you know
about this age, or close yeah,this was, this was right about
that time period that I'm at andthe story is when me and you uh
met because of wanting to watchin ufc and having our ufc
parties and stuff, right, ohyeah we'd go to rob's, and

(27:54):
that's when your world went tohell, when you met that guy oh,
we had fun oh yeah, and I had alot of fun drinking.
There was there's no doubt aboutthat.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Isn't that?
The sad part is that, when wewould, we had a lot of fun doing
it until we, until it stoppedbeing fun, yeah, and trying to
recapture that fun, that was alot of the for sure that was a
lot of the relapses that hadhappened and thinking I could
manage and control my drinkingagain, Right?

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Um, so yeah, I end up getting sober again.
Wait, I never said I got soberright.
I did get sober.
I got sober because I took toomany mushrooms one time.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
What's the number?

Speaker 4 (28:53):
It was my second time doing mushrooms and I took
about a quarter ounce ofmushrooms.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I wouldn't even know.
I've never even seen them.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Usually people take about a half-eighth to an eighth
of mushrooms right.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Psychedelics baby Spongify Psychedelics.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Yeah, and I took a whole quarter.
What did you?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
see, Did you see mechanical elves or anything
like that?
It's always more right.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, it's always more.
I have a really funny storyabout that.
So this was before me and thatgirlfriend split up and we were
living in a grandma's house andshe came and picked me up from
my buddy's house and we parkedin grandma's driveway and it's
dark and there's the spotlightcoming off the garage and

(29:35):
there's creepy shadows and stuffgoing on and I'm starting to go
into a very negative bad trip.
And so she calls my mom.
My mom shows up and my dad andand uh, they get me in the van
and they take me to the hospital.
And as soon as I show up to thehospital I see all of my family

(29:55):
there, like aunts, uncles,everybody that there, and I'm
like pissed off, like what'd youtell everybody about this, for
right?
She's like what do you mean?
I didn't tell anybody.
No.
She's like what do you mean?
I didn't tell anybody.
No one's here Like you'retripping.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
You see them, but they weren't there.
It's kind of like your oldpeople, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
And then we get into the hospital Hold on a second my
old people was a vision fromGod.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
I get it, but I was going to let it go A little bit
different, I know you're right,you're right.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
And so we get into uh , we get into the hospital and I
and I'm peeking, hiding behindmy mom.
And my mom's like, like what'sgoing on Right, and I'm like the
trolls over there they're goingto see me and the trolls over
there they're going to see me,and and she's like they're not

(30:49):
trolls, she's like that person'sdeaf.
And so there was like a littlebit of differentness that I can
see, that you can see Right, andin my mind, because of those
mushrooms made it they weretrolls.
Yeah, turn them into trolls andand I'm like, shh, be quiet,
they're going to hear, gonnahear you, and she's like they
can't hear you, they're deaf,and so like I completely

(31:10):
remember that, like it wasyesterday, that's crazy and um.
But yeah, they flushed, you know, gave me that black chalk stuff
in the, in the tooth wouldn'tknow like a toothpaste, squirted
into a cup and mixed it with alittle water and made me drink
that stuff and flush my systemout.
Came out the same color.

(31:30):
It went in both, you know both,uh, both orifices.
Yes.
Um, and, and so I, I got cleanand sober right then.
Um it, for how long it scaredme.
There was about a six-monthtime period and this is the
pattern, that six to eight-monthpattern that I had of being

(31:53):
sober right, and so my mom anddad were heavily in NA at this
time, my mom was for sure, wereheavily in NA at this time, my
mom was for sure.
My mom was clean for like 15,12 to 15 years, sponsored all
kinds of people, and I mean shehad, like you know, eight to 10

(32:13):
sponsors at the same time at onepoint and, and so I went and
tried what she was doing, causeI can see that it was working,
and I did really well in thattime period.
I got a decent job.
This was a short time periodwhen I wasn't working for tea,

(32:38):
doing electrical and working ona ranch and before and after
work on the ranch and you know,life was good until I made a
decision to go and drink and andoccasionally started doing some
Coke and, and then I met thekid's mom, my kid's mom, and and

(33:04):
she wouldn't be with anyonethat was like that Right, and I
didn't have a job.
Eventually lost that job.
I didn't have a job for thistime period, and this was when T
was up North and I got soberbecause I wanted to be with her,
and so I got a job that day.
I got sober because I wanted tobe with her, and so I got a job

(33:26):
that day.
I got sober that day, startedgoing to celebrate recovery when
at it was, back when it was anOakdale, okay, and so you know,
here goes another six to eightmonth round, okay, and she got

(33:48):
pregnant that time am.
I correct?
Yes, and she got pregnant Withyour help.
Yes, yeah, she did not want tobe pregnant and this was like
she has complications duringpregnancy.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
And so, you know, ended up talking her into it.
And so while she was pregnant,me and her, me and Rob were just
talking about this the otherday we walk into Shively's to
get a burger and stuff there.

(34:22):
And I was fishing, not joking I, at first I said joking, but
really I was fishing to see whatshe would say.
And and uh, I said, man, Ireally wish I could have a beer
with this, with this burger.
Right, she's like you can havea beer, Go ahead, oh boy.
And I was like oh, oh yeah, Gameon.
It was on that's this is whenit really started to um became

(34:46):
everyday drinking andprogression, oh yeah and and
during this time period we werestill doing these ufc fight
parties and stuff, because Iremember when I was with her
going over to your house andstuff too those ufc parties were
huge in the nineties.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Eric used to have those things all the time.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
Well, yeah, this was early 2000s.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Okay, yeah, it's still that, that it was big.
Anyway, we would tear upfurniture.
We would wrestle, right.
Eric's buddies used to do thatshit all the time.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, we had.
We had a lot of fun.
Um but yeah, so then you know,I, I would start started
drinking every day, starteddrinking 20 beers a day.
Um, it went fast then yeah,yeah it.

(35:37):
It definitely uh, progressedreally fast this time around.
But no hard alcohol.
I would drink hard alcohol, butevery time that I brought home
a bottle I'd leave for work andthe next day that shit would be
poured down the sink.
She wouldn't.
I went to a different levelwhen I was drinking hard alcohol

(35:59):
.
I guess I was a lot more angryTends to do that, um, so, yeah,
so I just gave up on drinkinghard alcohol and just drink beer
, um, at least when I was aroundher, and uh, so I would start
fights.
I'd start fights on purpose soI could take off oh, with your
girl.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah, um and you live across the street from
mom.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
Yeah, and I lived across the street from my mom,
and so my mom would hear usstart arguing, hear my truck
peel out and take off, and she'dbe worried for the rest of the
night until I came home.
She told me this you know,years later and I would take off
to the bar and go you the.

(36:43):
I thought that I had missed outon a certain time period of my
life.
I was 22, 23 years old at thistime right.
And so I wasn't able to live myyoung years.
She was, I was 22 and she was30 when we got together.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
And so and then became stepdad to two teenage
kids.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
You went from nothing to dad.
Yeah, immediately.
I had this thought in my lifeand you were young.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
In my head that my life was over Right and really
my life was just getting startedRight.
You know, that's everything Iwant.
Today is what I had then.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right and I just didn't know it.
It sucks Right and I justdidn't know it.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
It sucks, yeah.
So yeah, we eventually had oursecond kid.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Two daughters.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Yeah, two daughters.
And one night I was out at thebar.
This time around I said I wason a fishing trip.
I didn't start an argument, Ijust said I was going fishing
because I did do a lot of thatback then.
Um, and I ended up taking offto the bar and um, and I went

(37:59):
home with a woman and cheatedand it's hard to come back from.
Yeah, and so and and had gotteninto this.
Uh, this fight, um my, you know, eyes all busted up and stuff,
and come home with one shoe andI all busted up and hell of a

(38:21):
fishing trip.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you explain that one?

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Right, I don't remember exactly how what I said
, because I was completelywasted.
When I came home, I think Ijust got in bed and went to
sleep Right, right, like what adirt bag gets, gets in bed with
her right after I just sleptwith someone else, like horrible
.
But so eventually she found out.

(38:49):
She got messages and stuff andfound out.
I never admitted to it backthen.
I still deny, deny, deny, Idenied, and um, and so we split
up and and and uh, I there wasthis guy that was, was, was,

(39:12):
coming around next door, um toher, to our house, which is her
house now, not mine anymore Um,and trying to hook up with her
and stuff, right, and we aresplit up.
So really, she had you know shecould have done whatever she
wanted.
It wasn't, um, anything I reallycould have done about it.

(39:33):
Um, and I, I threatened to toshoot him, allegedly, um, well,
I don't remember saying any ofthis.
I was completely wasted,blacked out, blacked out.
And I read the police reportand so that's the only reason

(39:58):
why I really know what was said.
I guess I said I was going toshoot this guy with my 22 and I
didn't even have a 22.
I had a shotgun and a 40 Cal.
I didn't even own one, so Idon't know where that came from,
but, um, but yeah, so I endedup in jail, um, and then, and
then, part of the stipulationwhen I got out of jail was it's

(40:19):
like a no harm, no foul rulingand basically for the next three
years, is she so much said thatI did something?
I'd be, doing some pretty goodtime, right, right, and so I
just stayed away, smart.
I didn't see my two littlegirls very little, and that's

(40:40):
when I really started partying,hard Drinking drinking drugs.
And that's when the cocainestarted coming in and and um,
and eventually, um, the cocaineturned to meth and uh, and there

(41:01):
there were lots of differenttimes in this time period when I
had gotten sober, and it wouldbe that six, eight months again,
you know, I I'd, uh, I'dstopped showing up for work and
I would, I would um party for aweek, two weeks, whatever it was
, and then, whenever I was readyto to come back to work and

(41:23):
done didn't have money anymore.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Right Money ran out.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
My boss would let me come back cause, uh, I was, I
was a good employee when I wasthere, um, and I still work for
the same guy today, so, um, so,yeah, it was just that roller
coaster of trying to manage mydrinking and using and

(41:52):
eventually it's really just thesame story over and over Right
right.
And then one day this is whenthe drug use really really was
getting bad and those couple ofweeks turned into months and
months and my buddy, who I'dbeen in the program with and

(42:16):
stuff he committed suicide.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Was he a guy partying with you?

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Yeah, he was one that partied with me and stuff.
But he came to the rooms alittle bit, I remember yeah, and
he um, me and him stoppedhanging out with each other
because he'd be trying to dogood when I was doing bad and
vice versa and so we kind ofdistanced away from each other.
Yeah, oil and water and, um,yeah, me and him go to the bar
like it's on right, we wouldwreck, um.

(42:46):
But so he committed suicide andand right when I was the most
suicidal I've ever been in mylife, um, I mean, I, you know,
had a tree out in the middle ofnowhere that I already had

(43:07):
planned to throw a rope over,right, and he committed suicide
in his mom's house and he justlived with just him and his mom
and his mom's the one that foundhim and cut him down and all of
that.
And you'd think that would havebeen enough to like me to wake
up but it wasn't.

(43:31):
It was about a month later, andyou know this is the time period
of when, also, it's been pastthat three years where I can't
see my kids and stuff Rightright, you know, but I wasn't
doing, I wasn't seeing my kidsor anything during this time

(43:52):
period.
I was not even really talking tothem on the phone because when
I would talk to them on thephone I would be in tears and
crying and stuff, and so shedidn't even want me talking on
the phone with them anymore,because it was there's nothing
positive coming out of it rightupsetting them?
yes, and I I'm thankful for herthat she's good that she uh, did

(44:13):
that and protected those girls,um, and so eventually, uh, you
know, there comes my last drunkand really I got to go back a
little bit because this is agood part.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
That's when you were living in the house, when you
were living in her house whereyour buddy committed suicide and
she asked you a question.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
No, no, no, I'm going to jump back before that.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Okay, good, before we get to that, because that's a
good one.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Yeah, so I had a bright idea that I was going to
do this geographical changeagain and um I moved to vegas oh
yeah, here we go right and Iwas there about two, three weeks
total.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Maybe let me ask you a question.
I've heard you.
I've heard you talk about this.
I I just want to know what wereyou going to do in Las Vegas.
I want to know your thoughtprocess.
I always am curious of people'sthought process of moving to
Vegas.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
So my buddy he still is, I think, an inspector for
the gas lines there.
Okay, all right, and he had anin to get me in All right.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
So you just didn't make a whim to go driving up
there.
No, no, you had a plan.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Yeah, I had a plan I had you know, allegedly had
pounds of weed with me,Allegedly.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Good man, good man.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
And went up there, moved in with him, brought my TV
, brought all my stuff with me.
I was planning on going thereand staying there and you know,
vegas really just Chewed me upand spit me right out.
Oh, I wonder why.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Is this the time where you lost the car?

Speaker 4 (45:56):
for a couple weeks, yes, and so I was.
I was and they're about a weekso far and I had been parking in
the same casino parking lot thewhole time, because it was free
parking and I was at the casinoevery night.
And so this particular night Iparked in a different parking

(46:22):
lot and so I came across thishomeless lady and sat on the
bench next to her.
I was in complete depression,self-pity at this time and
crying about how I feel and allof my stuff right to her and she
was just sitting therelistening to me and she's just
such a sweet old lady and I, youknow.
I said are you hungry, do youwant something to eat?

(46:45):
She's like, yeah, let's go toDenny's.
You hungry do you?
Do you want something to eat?
She's like, yeah, let's go todenny's.
And so we go on this walk todenny's through all these little
back routes and everything Igot.
She knows, yeah, that she knows.
I have no clue about I gotcompletely turned around.
I've been there yeah, bought herbreakfast and then when I left,
when I left denny's, I washeaded back towards where I had

(47:08):
parked the whole time and my carwas not there and I spent a
week walking up and down fromparking lot to parking lot
looking for my car.
Dude, where's the car?
Yeah, yeah.
So and eventually I found thecar and I headed back home right
shortly after that.
I found the car and I headedback home right shortly after

(47:32):
that with my tail between mylegs and, and you know, praying
that prayer of I'll never dothis again 911 prayer, yes and
um, as soon as I got to town.
I got some more drugs and somealcohol right when I got to town
.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
So much for the prayer.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Okay, I made it.
Now I'm ready to go off therail again, um, so yeah, so back
to uh, right after my buddy, um, committed suicide and, and
that night of that last drunkwas just, I remember blackouts.
I was over on the other side oftracy.

(48:08):
This was early morning, um,very foggy day, and then all of
a sudden I come out of theblackout again and I'm over on
the other side of patterson, ohfun.
And I come out of it again andI'm, like you know, over by oak
delmore and and, um, I wascompletely in, completely in

(48:29):
self pity that day, more thanlike more than I ever have been,
and I, uh, I was mad at my momfor not and this was
Thanksgiving day.
I was mad at my mom for notinviting me to Thanksgiving
dinner.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
I wonder why she didn't invite you.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
This was 2018.
Um, my mom never has had toinvite me for two things right
before right, so it was all madeup bullshit in my head yeah, um
, I never made it to my mom'sdinner that night and so I went
to.

(49:08):
You know, just driving around Iran into this girl that knew my
buddy that committed suicide,and she had said that his mom
had been wanting to see me.
And this is a month or twoafter he passed.
And so I went over to her houseand his kid's mom he had one

(49:33):
and a half, two year old I thinkshe was about one and a half at
this time little baby Um andhis kid's mom was there as well,
and and I went and sat downwith him, and and I went and sat
down with him and I drank somedrinks and cried, and right when
I was about to leave was what Ithink was my moment of clarity.

(49:59):
And we're in the kitchen andshe tells me why don't you get
sober so my son doesn't die invain?
I look her right in the eyesand I tell her I can't, and she
looks right, looks me at me andtells me right back.
well then, tell me you won't,because that's what you're
really telling me and then I Icouldn't tell her that and so I

(50:24):
I said I will.
Well, I left there, went overto Jason Allen's house and,
because I wanted to, I was sickof it, I was sick and tired of
being sick and tired and Ireally wanted to get clean and
sober again.
And I went over to someone thatI know've been doing it for

(50:49):
about a little over a year atthis time and, um, and I talked
to him for a while and I leftthere and I drank a.
Uh, my last drink was an angryorchard, which I absolutely hate

(51:13):
because his daughter had one inthe fridge and um, that just so
happened to be one of thedrinks that my buddy that
committed suicide drink, and soit it.
Uh, when I was drinking I wasthinking about him and stuff too
right, and I just left hismom's house and all of this, and

(51:34):
I ended up wrecking my car liketwice in back roads on this.
Uh, ended up getting a ride tothe casino, stayed at the casino
all night long and hitched aride with someone that had been
up all night tweaking, gamblingand going back to Oakdale and

(51:56):
got a ride back home, and when Igot there, I gave all the drugs
I had to my mom and that waslike the moment I completely I
was done, I surrendered.
I didn't have my car anymore.
I didn't.
I surrendered Like I didn'thave my car anymore.
I didn't have a job, I didn'thave my kids, I didn't have it
was.
I was physically, financially,mentally, emotionally,

(52:21):
completely bankrupt.
Your ass was kicked, yes and um, and I started going to
meetings.
The next day, um started goingto two to three um meetings a
day.
You know the days that therewere three meetings I would go.

(52:42):
Eventually, my mom let me takeher car gained a little bit of
trust back.
Right.
So I would hit some Anticameetings and stuff too.
Three weeks after I get sober,my mom gets diagnosed with
cancer.
So really this pushed me evenmore to want to be something

(53:10):
that my mom was proud of and notsomething that she was ashamed
of and and worried about all thetime, and it was a big driving
factor for me.
Um, so my boss also didn't letme get my job back for three
months after being sober forthree months.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Stopped, enabling Right.
Yes.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
And I had to get.
I had to be in town because Ilived out in the country at this
time.
I had to be in town to getpicked up by him, so I'd have to
get rides to town every morningTo go to work, to go to work,
to go to work, and I ended upmoving in with my buddy that
committed suicide, joey, hismother.

(53:57):
I ended up moving in with hismom and stay in his room staying
in his yep, Staying in his oldbedroom and really Scott to see
firsthand what suicide did to amother and to a family and what
does it do?

Speaker 2 (54:14):
what did you see just ?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
the wreckage, just all how, how much they hurt and
how much you know it.
When you're, when you're in asuicidal state, you think that
everyone would be better offwithout you.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Type thoughts and it's a selfish yeah, selfish
yeah it's completely selfishreally and I got to experience
really that's not true.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Like how much they love and care about you is is um
and that was the last time youever had a thought of my vibe
incorrect I never again had athought of suicide, not even you
were coming into.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
You were coming into our monday night group at this
time.
I remember when you moved inwith her no, no not yet.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
No, okay, all right I might have talked about it, I
think you probably talked aboutit then, because I'd heard that
before yeah, um.
So I moved in with her foraround eight months or so and I
eventually stopped going tomeetings.
The same pattern, right?

(55:19):
Except for this time I didn'tpick back up, okay, and I would
have those first thoughts everyonce in a while of drinking, but
I never acted on them, right?
The second thought was alwayslike oh no, that's not a good
idea.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
But you hadn't worked a step, you hadn't really.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
I hadn't worked any steps.
I remember I had asked you tobe my sponsor when I first came
in and didn't do anything.
And every once in a while I'd goback and do a meeting and just
I'd be in tears, I'd be in pain,I'd cry and I'd let it all out.
And you wouldn't see me foranother month or two, right, and

(56:04):
I'd let it all out, and youwouldn't see me for another
month or two, right.
And then I, I, I was two, maybethree years sober and I came in
because a girlfriend had toldme that I had character defects
and and, and that's what shecalled them was character

(56:29):
defects, because she had been inthe program before and I was
wanting to fix myself for herbecause I was in love, right.
And so I come in and I startworking on myself and I really
don't want to be around her thatmuch anymore and I start kind

(56:49):
of kind of what I've done inrelationships I'll, I'll
distance myself a little bit andand kind of uh, just not be as
loving and caring and stuff as Iwas at at first.
I'll uh put up that wall, um,and stuff as I was at first,

(57:13):
I'll put up that wall.
And eventually we broke up andI realized I didn't really love
her like I thought I did and Ididn't really even like her that
much.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Was she in the program?

Speaker 4 (57:30):
No no.
She had been in NA years backand stuff, but it just was a
toxic relationship really.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
At least she noticed it.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
She was very attractive, that's what.
I was wanting.
It was lust, not love.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
And so I start coming to meetings a lot at this time.
I'm coming every day, Um, andthen comes a time period where
my mom, uh, is getting sickerand sicker and and, and so I I

(58:09):
stopped coming to meetings againabout a week, two weeks before
she passes, but I was alwaysthere with her at the hospice
house and I was able to be therefor her emotionally and
physically and everythingbecause of all that time that I

(58:36):
had put into working on myselfin the meetings, and really it
was.
I wasn't doing the steps, Iwasn't doing the work, but I was
learning a lot from listening.
I was actually hearing everyone, and so I was just able to be
there for her.
I spent the night with her, andthe last night that I was there

(59:02):
I prayed to God that he wouldtake her that night.
That's a rough one, and he did.
That was you know I.
I know that that was.
That was a prayer that was notselfish.
No, that was that was wantingher pain to end.

(59:25):
Right.
And she had been had cancer forover four years.
So I stopped going to meetingsagain.
And Brad, not a Monday group,brad the other Brad in the

(59:47):
Oakdale Fellowship, brad B Brad.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
B.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
He called me and he said what's going on, man, where
have you been?
And I'm like oh, I've just beenisolating.
And he's like well, you knowwhere that gets us.
Right.
And so a few days later I passby the stoplight right there and
look at my clock as I'm passingthrough the stoplight and I'm
like it's six o'clock and I'mlike flip it and go to the

(01:00:17):
meeting.
And then I started going a lotagain, right, and life started
getting a lot better again andduring this time period also,
I'm actually being um a dad, adad that's.
This is the biggest blessing ofsobriety is being able to be a
father today, amen and uh, youknow, being able to go to this,

(01:00:38):
their soccer games and their umcheerleading, which my daughter
I never, I didn't not want herto do cheerleading.
I always thought cheerleading'snot a sport, like it's not

(01:00:58):
going to get you anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
And all this and that right, How'd that go?

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
for you.
I have a shirt that says CheerDad on it, all right, so like no
matter what my kids are goingto do, I'm going to be right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Right Like.
I'm going to back them up.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
You know, I was just talking about my perspective of
God the other day in a meetingand how, when I always thought
of God as father, I alwaysthought negatively towards God
because because the father,because of the father that I

(01:01:35):
grew up with.
But when I think of it as mebeing a father to my children,
and how much I love my childrenand how much I will forgive them
for anything and there'snothing in the world they
possibly could ever do thatwould change that.
And so when I started thinkingabout it in that perspective, my
thought towards God changed alot, and that's one of my

(01:02:07):
resentments the way I look atGod and perceive God.
I have a relationship with Godtoday, but so eventually, right,
I get into an emotional stateagain where, in sobriety In

(01:02:29):
sobriety this was over fiveyears sober Few months before I
had six months sober I hit whatI called emotional bottom and A
few months before you had sixyears sober.
Yeah, a few months before I hadsix years.
Yes, a few months before youhad six years sober.
Yeah, a few months before I hadsix years.

(01:02:49):
Yes, and I didn't go to manymeetings, I wasn't praying, I
wasn't doing any readings, Iwasn't doing all of what I knew
I needed to do to be sane.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
You were just sober.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Yeah, dry.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Just sober dry, Dry, Dry yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
Miserable, and so I changed it up.
I started going to that Escalonmeeting instead of just the
Oakdale meeting, and the onlyreason why I was even going to
meetings right now is because Iwas chairing the Friday night
meeting For like a year and ahalf, so he had to go.
Yeah, and and yeah.

(01:03:28):
If it wasn't for that servicework, I don't know who knows
what might happen Right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
First of all, service is a good get into service Good
comment, Our good, good point.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
It kept me grounded, that was for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I remember the Escalon meeting.
You showed up.
I remember what you said, Ishowed up and I was completely,
just miserable.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
I was, I was ready just to quit AA again, I was.
I was ready to.
To the only reason why I didn't?
Because Susan is the which Icall my AA mom now she, she's
the meeting secretary, thesecretary over all the meetings,

(01:04:07):
right, and so I would have tocall and tell her that I don't
want to do my meeting anymore.
And so, like I wasn't going todo that, because I had done, let
people in close to me, right,like I never had done before in
recovery, I never let anyone in.
And this time around wasdifferent.
I got to know people and letthem get to know me was

(01:04:31):
different.
I got to know people and letthem get to know me.
And so I show up to thatThursday meeting and I'm
miserable and I go to the Hula'sto go get a burger after and
Rob's there getting an ice creamcone.
Fatty and so we have a and and.
Uh, I end up asking them tosponsor me and, you know, got

(01:04:55):
got through the steps, is that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
the first time you ever asked somebody to be a
sponsor no, I sponsored thembefore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Oh, that's right.
Years, years before he had acouple of them through.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Through these years I had multiple six, six or
something like that All right, Ido a step and then not do
anything.
Run.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
Yeah, fire them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Fire them, but not replace.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Most of the time it was one through three.
I do one through three and Iwas fearful of doing four.
I did not want to bring up,like some of the stuff that we
talked about right and, uh, evendeeper than that.
Um, I didn't want to bring anyof that up.
I didn't want to think aboutyou that had been put so far
back in my mind, that, um, andthen to tell someone else right

(01:05:44):
step like to share.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
You know that's it takes a lot of fucking courage
to do that, but do me a favorthough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Uh, we're talking about susan.
She gave him one of the becauseI love working words matter.
Everybody knows I feel how Ifeel about words and I agree
remember the robisms that I havea lot of, but susan gave one of
the best quotes I've ever heardin my life to you.
That really touched you and itdid every time I think about it.
Would you please share that?

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
yes, this, this was definitely key, one of the key
things pissed you off, but good,yes, of course, my natural
instinct is to turn to angerright, I don't have alcohol
anymore.
So uh um, she text messaged methe magic that you were looking
for is in the work that you areavoiding.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
That's powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
That is incredible and it did piss me off.
And she says she knows itpissed me off because I didn't
message her back and I alwaysmessage her back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
But that's love, right there, that's love 100% as
far as you're holding youaccountable, she's absolutely
right that role, right, amazingwoman, but that to love you that
much to piss you off, that's Imean, that's what you have to be
willing to piss your somebodyyou love off.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
You got to be okay with that.
Katie and I are completely okaywith pissing each other off.
It's how we get through shit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Well, I mean, I mean, it's our moment.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
That was love, I love that it's not a motive one more
time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
The magic you are looking for is in the work that
you are avoiding to do yepthat's powerful.
That's the steps.
And then now talk about howyour life has changed since we
did that.
The steps, I mean because youknow how well god and this is
where we're probably and what,if we want to get into the topic
I really, really want to touchon this.
But what is the difference?
I mean five years, and then youhad this emotional, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Yeah, so, um, after going through the steps, after
doing that fourth step and doingthe fifth step, um, and what?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
was that like?
I mean, we talked about whatthe fears of the fears you had
of the four step, and you knowthere was, as when you were
going through them.
Do you think, man, did I maketoo much of this?
Or what was?
What was it like going throughthe steps?
I mean, tell people what youexperienced.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
The fears that I had of doing them were far greater
than what it was.
Like um, we make that shit upin our head.
Oh yeah, like you know thesaying, we make a mountain out
of a.
Yes, sir, it's, it's no doubtlike right.
I made it out to be such abigger deal and and the relief
that came after doing it was fargreater than any of those fears

(01:08:20):
.
Um, but it was like when thepain is worse than uh.
Oh, what's that saying?

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
when the pain, when the, when the pain we're in
becomes greater than our fear ofchange.

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
Right, yes, we change yes, so that's what happened.
You were in pain and um.
So, after doing that fifth stepand and sharing with you a
couple things that I have nevershared with anyone in my whole
life, um, it was, it was.
It was relieving, um, and like,we talked about this the other

(01:08:52):
night in the meeting as well,but I had that felt, like that
raw nerve was exposed, and so Ihad an uneasy feeling for a week
or two, um, but after that itwas just all relief, um, and
especially my doing the steps,steps six and seven, and um,

(01:09:21):
praying for my character defectsto be removed, all of them good
and bad.
And as far as, like myrelationship with God goes now,
it's I pray every morning, everynight, most of the time
throughout the day, if not likethroughout the day is not like

(01:09:44):
your typical prayer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
It's more of just talking to God, like we are
that's right Because it's arelationship Right and you have
talking to God Conversation Likewe are.
That's right Because it's arelationship Right and you have
a great relationship now RightWith your father.
Yeah, heavenly Father.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Definitely, and I thank him for his.
You know, most of my prayersare just of just thanks.
I just I thank him and I prayfor others, and rarely is there
anything in there from for methat I pray for.

(01:10:22):
It's um well, the promises saywe will not be self-seeking
right, and I completely feelthat way.
Today.
I feel like all of thosepromises have came true and will
continue to yeah and and umsome slowly, some quickly if we
work, yeah, yeah, which is whichwe'll get into mine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Definitely was a lot slower, um, but yeah man, this
life is is a totally differentdeal today it's but since you
did the steps god God has to,because now, now there's another
avenue that's opened up,another depth, another
relationship God has used you to.
You've spoken how many times inthe last three months.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
Yeah, so right after, right after I went through the
steps um.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
What'd you tell God about your Friday night meeting?

Speaker 4 (01:11:04):
And and this was January 1st my commitment was up
on the Friday night meeting.
Right and I, and I said I amdone with service.
I have I've done a year and ahalf of of chairing this meeting
and I'm done.
And what?
Two weeks later I got asked tospeak.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
I was going to ask how'd that work out for you?
Yeah, Tell God your plans.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
I was going to ask how'd that work out for you?
Yeah, tell God your plans.
All right, I got asked to speakin Escalon.
Then I got asked at thatEscalon meeting to speak at
Modesto, the rehab in Modesto,and then.
And then I got asked to speakat the Lakes the week after that

(01:11:48):
, and then recently someoneasked me to be their sponsor,
and then you, and then then Godasked to come on here you know,
right after that had happened.
So, um, god definitely has afunny sense of humor, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
um she's like oh yeah , you're done with service, I'll
show you Like Rob said, givehim your plans.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
He'll laugh at you.
Tell you why you don't make Godlaugh.
Tell him your plans.
Watch this you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
that's why I say whatever right, Whatever you
want, whatever you want, Show meright, Show me.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
Yeah, I definitely I'm not going to say something
like that again, but um, but I,I'm, I'm enjoying this.
I, I enjoy speaking in front ofa crowd of people Um it fills
it fills your soul.
Yeah, and there's been a coupleof people that had came um in

(01:12:44):
from the lakes to the Oakdalefellowship recently.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
And Well, because I mean, let's, let's face it, not
many people.
I mean I've heard a lot offifth steps.
Maybe not many people have beenthrough.
Like Larry said, when you bythe age before age of 18, you've
lived a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I mean.
I mean pain you've.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
You've experienced more than most people have.
Most people have and look whereyou are.
You know most of them don'tmake it here.
Most people that have lived yourlife to 17 are in prison right
and will be there, but you knowyou chose something different
and that's it you've got anamazing story, especially to go
into those places and tell it,because the, because most people
what do we think you know, whenyou don't know what I've been,

(01:13:23):
you don't know right then theyhear nathan's story like I
better shut the fuck up, becausethis, this, this young man has
lived and is here to you know,to and here's the thing with
nathan's story that I Iappreciate so much, because
nathan's story is what I heardwhen I got into rehab, right, I
heard nathan's story and I'mlike I'm not, that's not me,
that's not me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Why the fuck am I here?
I don't, I didn't have thattrouble stuff.
I mean my dad drank.
I mean at a very young age Ihad a beer too, but I mean I
didn't have that stuff thatNathan went through.
I didn't have all that.
I'm not an alcoholic Until Istopped looking at the
differences and started lookingat the similarities and go.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
I drank just like that.
Fuck, I drank just like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
My depression was like that.
I drank like that.
Fuck, I drank just like that.
My depression was like that.
I drank like that.
I did the stupid shit that hedid.
Just because our paths weredifferent Doesn't mean that
we're any difference.
Of an alcoholic, right, rightand it.
Once I realized that and I shutmy thoughts off of to judging
the differences in the alcoholic.
You know the differences, man,I, I, I opened up to a whole

(01:14:27):
other realm.
And you know, our book tells uswe're like passengers on a
wrecked ship.
Right, we're all in the same,we're all Page 17.
Yeah, we're all alcoholics,we're all living this, whether
you live in a mansion or youlive in a cave, yale or jail.
Yeah, yale or jail.
I mean, it doesn't matter whereyou came from.
We're all alcoholics, we're allliving the same disease, and

(01:14:50):
how we get there, the way youspeak to people, how I speak to
people, the way Rob speak topeople we have to have
differences of the way we speakto people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
There's people we can't touch.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Right, nathan will, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
There's people that we can't touch, that Brad will,
or Doug will, or and that's the,that's the beauty of this aa
right, if I'm talking tosomebody and I'm not getting
anywhere with them, fine, let meget to somebody else and
yesterday, speaking of that, atthe saturday morning meeting
which I went to, there's a guywho must have been at the friday
night I don't remember himthere at the friday night
meeting, the night before,obviously, and he had shared.

(01:15:23):
I remember, you know, becausethe talk of steps came up and he
shared it, uh and goes.
I talked to larry.
He was because he, he just gotout of maynards with old jed the
millionaire okay, yeah, he, hisname is warren lauren big.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Okay, lauren, big guy , big guy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Yeah, he was with you , big guy, yeah and he said and
I talked to larry, which was youhe said no fuck that, get in
there, get into action, get themthings done now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
don't, don't, don't take your time, cause that's
what you know your best thinkinggot you here Right, exactly why
I told him Right, so so that'sgood.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
What else we got before we come back for another.
We gotta, we gotta do a topichere.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
We're going to bring you back.
You know, one of the things youtalked about a little bit is
how you went so far to do yoursteps.
We're going to come back and wewant to dig into that a little
bit more.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Right, we want to we're going to use that as a
topic your recommendation onwhat you would have done.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Differently.
Yeah, we're going to use thatas a little bit topic.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Springboard.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
We knew the stories normally take about an hour,
hour and a half, and we're andwe're about there.
I mean, unless you havesomething else you want to bring
in that you feel like you mayhave left out.
You know, here's the one thingthat we definitely want in our
podcast, and I have a habit ofdoing this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
I have a habit of cutting people off and then oh
man, I didn't get to say thishey, we didn't really talk to
you, we let Nathan do the restof the shit I did.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
I kept my mouth shut, which, yes, you're welcome,
doug, I did, and you knowbecause.
Interrupting because I want toknow more, I want to know more,
I want to know more.
Thank you for joining us today,but that's the reason why I
want to bring you back, causewe're going to come back.
We're going to talk a littlebit about the sponsorship side
of things.
Right, that, not so much asponsorship, but waiting so long
to to start doing your steps,and we're going to talk about

(01:17:03):
that a little bit Cause.
I know people that have anythingelse.
Nathan, we're going to cut this.
We're going to let ourlisteners digest this one.
There's not going to be muchanything to do on that phone.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Right, and, if you want to, at the end of this,
recoveryunfilteredpodcast atgmailcom.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Thank you, rob, thank you, remind me to say that more
would you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
It's your fault, I, I know I suck.
What are you going to do?
Fucking?

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
guy man, god damn it, you're a horrible partner.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
I do the best I can.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
Pray for me, motherfuckers, I'll pray for you
All right, nathan?
Anything before we get out ofhere on this one?
Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
You're good, that was a good story.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
That was good.
I enjoyed that.
Nathan.
It was good to get to know youa little bit better.
I haven't really heard yourforth fort.
When did you come in before weleave?
When did you come in to our,the oakdale group?
But what point in your storydid you was that after you and
rob went through your steps?
No, before it was before.
Yeah, because when you came inwhen he first came in at first,
like when we were at kevin'splace right, you were struggling

(01:18:02):
yeah, that was a few years backright, yeah, it was about two
years ago, yeah, um I think itwas jason or aaron that jason
allen.
I think it was aaron aaron yeahyeah, yeah, but I, I know that
you, that jason, came a fewtimes when we talked about you
being here, being there, sojason showed up to see you.

(01:18:24):
I talked to jason.
I saw Jason yesterday.
I told him you were going to beon here.
Yeah, he's a Jason's acharacter.
All right, let's get out ofhere.
We'll be back next.
Oh God, will you stop punchingthat one Motherfucker, I got no
buttons.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Sorry about that.
I said one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Yeah, I'm proud of you.
I said one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
What are you doing that one for?

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you.
If you did not come back nextweek, We'll try again.
We don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
We'll see you next week and hopefully something
will be different and somethingwill sink in.
Take care, this has beenRecovery Unfiltered.