Unlock the secrets to skyrocketing your sales with expert insights from Debra Bowers, the resilient CEO of advertising firm Hexagon Media. Today we discuss newer marketing channels like connected TV and Debra shares why some companies generate lots of content but don't get sales from it. We dive into the right mindset for success with sales and marketing.
Discover how she turned a local swimming pool company into a booked-out success story through a meticulous multi-channel marketing campaign. Debra shares her personal journey of rebuilding her career in her 50s and provides actionable advice on creating cohesive and consistent messaging across all media to achieve remarkable advertising results.
Explore the intricate psychology behind sales and marketing as Debra reveals the importance of understanding buyer personalities and tailoring campaigns to emotional triggers. Learn why enthusiasm and authenticity are game-changers in sales and how to select the most effective platforms to reach your target audience. We also examine the evolving landscape of connected tv advertising, focusing on the opportunities presented by streaming services. Don’t miss this chance to transform your marketing strategies and take your business to new heights.
Check out Debra's free ebook on the Mindset for Success
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:00):
Today we discuss how to get big results with
advertising and why peoplesometimes create so much content
for marketing but don't get anysales from it.
And finally, how do you havethe right mindset to win at
sales and marketing?
We have a great show today andan amazing guest to inspire us,
(00:22):
deborah Bowers.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, I'm so happy to behere.
Why don't we start off by youtaking a minute?
Debra Bowers (00:36):
or two to share a little bit about who you are
and what you do.
Okay, I am a native Oklahoman.
I live in the central part ofOklahoma, a suburb of Oklahoma
City, and I raised five kidshere, and I really sacrificed a
lot to do that I think a lot ofwomen do and so I basically
started over again and foundmyself in my 50s, and I'd like
(00:58):
to tell you that I did that.
I had this deep thought and didit, but I was thrust there by
tragedy.
But it forced me to re-examinewhat I was doing with my life,
and I ended up starting myagency, hexagon Media, and then,
about a little over a yearlater, we launched my podcast,
deals with Heels, and so it'sbeen a whirlwind since.
(01:22):
My kids are all grown my oldestone is 30 and my youngest is 22
.
And so it's been fantasticfinding myself again and getting
back to what I really lovedoing the most, which is sales
and marketing.
Eric Eden (01:39):
Amazing.
So you have almost 25 years ofmarketing experience, You're the
CEO of your own advertisingagency and you have a great
podcast Deals with Heels.
We're ready to be inspired.
Why don't you share a storywith us about some of the best
marketing you've done, themarketing that you're the most
proud of?
Debra Bowers (01:59):
Oddly enough I just had a recent campaign it's
almost we have one week left init and it's for a local client
here.
They are a swimming poolcompany.
They build swimming pools, soit's really a big deal for them
to be able to schedule outthrough the winter during their
(02:19):
hot season, which is the summer.
Once it starts getting back toschool, people forget about the
pool and all of that kind ofstuff and it's not top of mind.
So they really try to buildthat momentum and schedule as
much as possible through thesummer.
And this particular poolcompany had been struggling with
that and just really losing allof their business, all their
(02:41):
momentum, because they wouldstop advertising in about July.
And so I came on about thebeginning of the business, all
their momentum because theywould stop advertising in about
July.
And so I came on about thebeginning of the year and we put
a plan in place and it involveda lot of different touch points
.
It involved some traditionalones we ran television
commercials both on broadcastand on connected TV, so
(03:03):
streaming television, both onbroadcast and on connected TV,
so streaming television.
It involved digital that onsome local broadcast stations,
but also digital display anddigital search ads and it had a
lot of organic social mediainvolved.
We also did a promotion calledSummer of Fun where they gave
(03:27):
away pool stuff and got a lot ofpublicity for that, and that
came with a little bit ofoutdoor and I really liked it
for a couple of reasons.
One we're booked all the wayinto the spring of next year, so
it was highly effective forthem, which is good and bad,
because now they don't need youanymore Good problem to have.
But to book them out that faron a fairly new company was
(03:48):
really a big deal and I enjoyedworking with it.
I produced the televisioncommercial and my client was in
it at the end and it was reallyawesome.
He was just like you want topull, and so it was his face on
everything.
All the media tied together andit had really big results and
exactly what we wanted to happenhappened.
(04:09):
I love when a plan comestogether.
Eric Eden (04:14):
And so that's what you do is you help your clients
get big results with advertisingright?
Debra Bowers (04:19):
We do.
That is the majority of what Ido.
I do some sales coaching too,but I really feel like all
marketing is sales, and some ofmy marketing peers will say, no,
what about communityinvolvement?
What about?
I was like, yeah, there's areason we send that press
release, isn't there Right?
If we were just beingphilanthropic, we wouldn't send
(04:42):
the press release.
So we send the press releasebecause we want publicity.
And why do we want publicity?
To get more sales.
So it is sales.
It's just selling in a softervoice, and so part of what I do
is coach companies and people onhow to make content that sells.
There's a lot of content beingmade right now and none of it
(05:03):
sells.
So tying all of that intogether is really important,
and that cohesive message thatties into the sales funnel and
through all of the media andconsistency is how you get
really big results.
Eric Eden (05:18):
Why is it that some people produce so much content
but it doesn't really help themsell?
Debra Bowers (05:24):
Because they don't have sales experience.
And my industry has gotten verysegmented.
Our industry right.
We have content creators, wehave videographers, we have
photographers, we have brandingphotographers, we have digital
marketing companies, socialmedia marketing companies,
social media managed webdevelopers they're all out there
(05:46):
and, to the small businessperson, we all do the same thing
.
They don't really understandthe difference and I commend a
lot of those social media andcontent creating.
They learned how to use CapCutover the shutdown and built big
businesses from it.
And I'm an entrepreneur and I'mlike hell yeah, let's go.
(06:08):
But at the end of the day, ifyou don't sell your products and
services, you're going to goout of business and you don't
have the privilege of making allof that content.
So it's really important and alot of the marketing
professionals that are out there, or content people that are out
there, don't have the marketingtraining or sales experience to
(06:32):
be able to convert that.
And it's really important thata small business owner pick that
piece up themselves and reallylook at what they're doing and
how is this going to get mebusiness?
And ask those questions,because you will know really
quickly if they have a plan foractually selling and bringing in
business or if they're justgoing to make content and it's
(06:54):
not.
That content isn't important,bringing eyeballs in is
important.
Is it the most important thingthat you spend thousands of
dollars doing?
Absolutely not, and I thinkthat there's just a
misunderstanding that peoplethink if they build it, they
will come.
If I make all this content,it's going to get sales and it
(07:15):
just doesn't work that way.
Eric Eden (07:18):
So when working with teams on content marketing, one
of the things I've tried to dois set a goal.
For example, if you have anebook, try to get 10% of the
people who download the ebook totake you up on an offer that
you included in the ebook.
So some percentage of thepeople consuming the content
that's reasonable would take youup on an offer that you
(07:39):
included in the ebook.
Is that the sort of thingyou're getting at in terms of
including the sales and themarketing material?
Debra Bowers (07:48):
It is part of it.
It is part of it, but also justbuilding a campaign that starts
with a hook right and then youhave some bait to put on that
hook and you've got just a fewseconds to grab them before
they're gone in a video.
So if you're not starting with,do you want to lose weight?
If you do, you really want tohear what this next video says.
(08:11):
You really have to lure them inright To get them to even watch
your content.
But and then baiting it with anoffer that's really important
in sales content and to notreally come across super
hardcore selling.
But really, if you think aboutyour marketing, your media, your
networking, all of the thingsthat you do, if you think of it
(08:35):
in terms of building demand foryour products and services,
branding when I first startedout, it was demand building,
then it became image building.
We're building our image andnow it's branding.
It's the same thing Buildingdemand for your products and
your services and you as thepreferred provider of those.
That's really creativeadvertising.
(08:56):
And then you have offer right,where you're telling them that
it's for sale and how they canget it, and then you have direct
response Come and get it right.
Now it's on sale.
Come get it.
This is the best deal ever.
And that cycle really flowsthrough whether and it doesn't
matter how you're delivering themessage, whether you're doing
(09:16):
it with organic content oryou're doing it with paid
advertising, social media, video, print, it doesn't matter If
you follow that flow, thenyou're constantly filling that
bucket and building demand.
Eric Eden (09:30):
I think that's great.
I love that book by BrendanCain Hookpoint.
So I totally agree having ahook to grab people.
I think you have seven secondswith videos to grab people's
attention before they just areon to the next video if you
don't hook them.
So I agree with that 100%.
But one of the things youmentioned was the psychology of
sales and marketing.
(09:51):
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat you've done in that area
and what you've learned salesand marketing?
Can?
Debra Bowers (09:56):
you talk a little bit about what you've done in
that area and what you'velearned.
Years ago, like a couple ofdecades ago, I worked for a
company that did somepersonality testing and every
company does that stuff right.
This one stuck with me and I'vemodified it as time has gone on
and buying preferences havechanged and we've really gotten
more on recommendations, right.
(10:17):
That's really important topeople.
Now this works for my friend.
Is it going to work for me withall of the first person video
all over TikTok and Reels andall of the things?
So the psychology of sales isreally understanding your
buyer's personality and how theyprefer to be communicated with
buyers' personality and how theyprefer to be communicated with
(10:38):
it's.
For example, if you're athinker, right, there's a group
of people that are thinkers.
They have to have a lot ofinformation.
They want to really learn aboutit and digest it.
It's more about figuring it allout than it is shopping around
and looking for another deal.
And if you can tell that you'redealing with a thinker, then
(11:03):
you're never going to close them.
Today they're not closable.
You think they are becausethey're interested and they want
information, but they will justlet you keep giving it to them
and it can be really frustratingif you identify them up front,
you give them information, youput them on a drip campaign from
your email campaign and yousend them a little bit of
information and three monthslater they come in, they're
(11:24):
ready to buy and you didn'twaste a ton of time and get
discouraged so discouraging whenyou think you can get a sale
and then it doesn't happen.
The same is true for all of yourmarketing and advertising.
If you put a campaign togetherand it doesn't get sales, it's
really discouraging but it'simportant to adjust.
But you can do marketingcampaigns around those buying
(11:47):
preferences as well and thosebuying emotions.
People buy for fear reasons orfor that feeling of I have to
have the very next best thing,those early adapters.
So, taking into account whatyour product and service is and
what kind of emotions triggerpeople to buy it, and there'll
(12:08):
be multiple ones and I wouldseparate them and then you do
separate types of contentmarketing to each of those and
that's how I would do it.
That's how I use the sales.
I use a lot of sales psychologyand sales coaching more than I
do in media, but it's importantin those macro large segments of
(12:31):
the population and how they buy.
So, moms, they have specificthings that they buy and buying
patterns for their family.
Eric Eden (12:41):
What's the most important thing you teach people
in sales coaching.
Debra Bowers (12:45):
There is nothing more important than mindset in
all forms of sales.
Sales is a transfer ofenthusiasm.
I'm so excited about being ableto help people with this
product and service and I wantto tell it to you and that it
that can't be duplicated, thatcan't be faked, that
(13:07):
authenticity and you have tohave that mindset when you come
in.
Sales can be discouraging.
It can be exhilarating andexciting, but it's a lot of
sometimes up and then down andup and down.
And prospecting is hard too,especially cold calling.
You get told no a lot, and soyour mindset is key to
(13:31):
everything.
It helps you not getdiscouraged.
It keeps you disciplined whenno one's motivated every day,
let's face it.
So you have to have somethingto keep you going and for
discipline, and there is nothingmore important than mindset.
Eric Eden (13:48):
I love that.
Let me ask you a lot of peoplehave said that advertising is
getting tougher because it'sgetting more expensive,
particularly on platforms likeGoogle and Facebook and LinkedIn
, particularly in the onlineadvertising area.
How can people get big resultsfor advertising when the
(14:10):
perception is that it's one ofthe more expensive ways to get
clients?
Debra Bowers (14:15):
Let's face it, advert advertising isn't cheap,
right, and like everything, itgoes up with inflation as well.
I think the most importantthing is to spend your money
efficiently.
So if you're abusiness-to-business person like
me, I work with otherbusinesses.
I don't really work withconsumers, although consumers
can refer business to me.
(14:36):
I work with other businesses.
I don't really work withconsumers, although consumers
can refer business to me.
So it would be a horrible ideafor me to spend a lot of paid
ads on Facebook.
It's just not the best placefor business to business.
So one, pick your platformappropriately and even if it's a
platform you don't personallyenjoy spending time on for
example, nextdoor app just abunch of people bitching on
(14:58):
there but the feel type to me.
But for a home, if you've got ahome services business, then
that's a great place to be andthey're cheap.
And so feeling around for whichof the platforms is best for
your target audience that you'retrying to hit with that
specific paid campaign isimportant, but also adding a lot
(15:20):
of other things with it All ofyour organic content, networking
, all of those touch points,people that get your business
card or see your truck down theroad with your logo on it.
Those are important too.
So having all of that cohesiveand being together will help,
because it allows thoseimpressions to tie together
right.
(15:40):
Otherwise they don't know it'syou.
They don't get to count that ifthey can't see your logo on it.
But that's the most importantthing with advertising is
eliminate as much of theimpressions you're paying for
from people that are never goingto buy your product and
services.
So if you're targeting women,let's eliminate the men from the
(16:03):
equation.
Let's advertise on thoseplatforms that have the majority
of women on them and target themessage towards that.
That's the best way.
Eric Eden (16:12):
I think that's great advice, and you said you did
some connected TV advertising inyour story for the swimming
pool company.
Is that an area that you oftenrecommend that you've had
success with?
I haven't experimented verymuch with connected TV, but I'm
interested with the streamingand connected TV.
It seems like an interestingnewer area of marketing an
(16:34):
interesting, newer area ofmarketing, the thing that I like
.
Debra Bowers (16:37):
I like a few things about connected TV.
One, you're able to target it.
So let's say, I only want tosend television to this city and
only the people that make over$300,000 a year and you can
really get targeted on thataudience and only they see your
(16:57):
commercials on streaming TV.
It's much more technologicallyadvanced in that respect than
traditional televisioncommercials that just go all
over the DMA and I may not wantto go 100 miles away for a
customer and there's a lot ofpeople that don't, and so you
can really target it towardsthat.
A lot of people that don't, andso you can really target it
(17:19):
towards that.
And huge portions of thepopulation right now don't have
any kind of cable or satellite.
They are all running onstreaming services.
So if you don't add connectedTV in, then you're missing a
huge portion of the populationthat only watch streaming TV,
especially younger generation.
They are really tied in tostreaming TV.
Even myself, I watch a ton ofstreaming TV.
(17:42):
And so those programs that havecommercials so who?
All of them were starting toadd commercials, right, even
Netflix.
And so those commercials thatsometimes you can preempt and
sometimes you can't.
The ones you can pre preempt,are usually called pre-rolls.
They come before something.
It's not cannabis industry, ally'all out there saying the
(18:04):
pre-roll, but connected TV is agreat way to dip in to
television advertising withouthaving the huge expense of
broadcast TV and to limit it toyour audience.
So it's more efficiently spentand I love it for those reasons.
It's still expensive foradvertising, but worth it if you
(18:27):
can really target and get inthose eyeballs.
Eric Eden (18:31):
So I've been seeing this year in particular, a lot
of the cable companies that wereso strong over the last 30
years have been doing massivewrite-offs and layoffs,
unfortunately, of people,because everyone has gone to
streaming connected TV.
So is cable dead?
Are all the ad dollars fromcable now going into connected
(18:52):
TV and streaming?
Debra Bowers (18:55):
I'm going to say no connected TV and streaming.
I'm going to say no andprerequisite by telling you my
very first marketing job out ofcollege was with a company
called Multimedia Cablevision,and they were purchased by Cox
Communications about a yearafter I left in this market.
And so I you know.
(19:15):
There were board meetings andmeetings, management meetings we
sent in being terrified ofwhat's happening today, when
they knew things like Netflixwere coming, even if they were a
decade away and I don't thinkit's dead, I think there's
always going to be some, justlike you still have people that
listen to regular FM radio, butthat population is definitely
(19:39):
getting less and less.
And I'll be honest, I can'ttell you the last time I bought
ads on cable.
I have obviously done somebroadcast campaigns, but I
haven't done cable in a coolminute.
So if there is somewhere that'sstruggling for ad revenue, that
very well may be it.
But also if you want toadvertise in sporting events or
(20:04):
any of those things that are onESPN or Fox Sports, any of those
types of programming, you'regoing to be best bet on cable.
So there's always going to be aplace for some of that and for
regionally, I think cablesometimes is a good place to go.
I don't have anybody that fitsreally in that has that big of a
(20:25):
budget to spend on big sportspackages.
Those kinds of things I thinkare always going to be cable
driven and until eventually Iguess it can all.
I mean, I was at my daughterand son-in-law's.
They had YouTube TV and he hadfour games going during college
football at the same time up ontheir TV, and so that was pretty
(20:46):
exciting to be able to see, andI hadn't done that yet.
Eric Eden (20:51):
So I think it'll be interesting to see how things
evolve.
I think on the content side,it's also a challenge for the
cable networks because producingthe content is so expensive for
everybody, including thestreaming companies.
So it's hard if you don't havethe ad revenue to afford to
create a lot of the greatcontent.
But there's probably someindustries like sports is a
great example where it stillmakes sense.
(21:13):
But it's going to beinteresting to see how that
really evolves.
Let me ask you about yourpodcast Deals with Heels.
It's about entrepreneurs, womenentrepreneurs, and the
challenges they face.
Debra Bowers (21:30):
Talk to us a little bit about the podcast and
about that.
The podcast is officially Dealswith Heels, where female
entrepreneurs thrive, and wedeal a lot with entrepreneurism
and the things it takes to besuccessful.
We do delve a lot into femaleempowerment and the things that
we struggle with as femaleentrepreneurs and, historically,
(21:52):
how those things have evolved,and we talk a lot about mindset
and personal growth and howimportant it is to success, and
so we have a lot of malelisteners too, but all of our
content is delivered by womenand there is definitely a female
element to it that the issuesthat we discuss are always how
(22:13):
it relates to us as women, butwe love it.
We've had some great guests.
We're in the middle of seasontwo, and so we're really excited
about it.
We have had some great salesand marketing guests this season
, some that dealt with salespsychology that we talked about,
and some that dealt with, likecontent-based SEO, which is a
(22:33):
little bit different.
So things that I'm reallypassionate about sales and
marketing.
We got to get a lot of that intoo.
Eric Eden (22:42):
That's awesome.
One of the things I love aboutpodcasting is you can serve all
of these great verticals andniches that people really need,
so I think that's a greatresource for female
entrepreneurs and founders, whoneed that kind of inspiration.
I encourage everyone to checkthat out, and you also have an
(23:02):
e-book where people can.
If they've liked some of theinsights in this episode, they
can get a copy of that.
Talk about that for a littlebit.
Debra Bowers (23:11):
The e-book is Five Steps to Having a Mindset
for Success is Five Steps toHaving a Mindset for Success and
it's a quick version of thesteps that I personally went
through, not like with a guide,but that I just figured out and
that really helped me turn mylife around, and how it relates
to business.
(23:31):
It's available on my HexagonMedia website, hexagonmedianet,
and I encourage everyone tocheck it out.
Eric Eden (23:41):
Awesome.
I will link to that in the shownotes.
Some people can get somevisibility into what you learn
from the School of Life.
Debra Bowers (23:50):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
Unfortunately, you don't learna lot with fun, do you?
Eric Eden (23:58):
That's not usually the way it works out,
unfortunately.
You don't learn a lot with fun,do you?
That's not usually the way itworks out, unfortunately, but I
think people can benefit fromwhat you've learned, so I'll
link that in the show notes sopeople can easily get to it.
Thanks for being with us today,Debra, and sharing all these
insights.
We really appreciate it.
Great to have you on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Debra Bowers (24:14):
I had a great time.
Today we discuss how to get big results with
advertising and why peoplesometimes create so much content
for marketing but don't get anysales from it.
And finally, how do you havethe right mindset to win at
sales and marketing?
We have a great show today andan amazing guest to inspire us,
(00:22):
deborah Bowers.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, I'm so happy to behere.
Why don't we start off by youtaking a minute?
Debra Bowers (00:36):
or two to share a little bit about who you are
and what you do.
Okay, I am a native Oklahoman.
I live in the central part ofOklahoma, a suburb of Oklahoma
City, and I raised five kidshere, and I really sacrificed a
lot to do that I think a lot ofwomen do and so I basically
started over again and foundmyself in my 50s, and I'd like
(00:58):
to tell you that I did that.
I had this deep thought and didit, but I was thrust there by
tragedy.
But it forced me to re-examinewhat I was doing with my life,
and I ended up starting myagency, hexagon Media, and then,
about a little over a yearlater, we launched my podcast,
deals with Heels, and so it'sbeen a whirlwind since.
(01:22):
My kids are all grown my oldestone is 30 and my youngest is 22
.
And so it's been fantasticfinding myself again and getting
back to what I really lovedoing the most, which is sales
and marketing.
Eric Eden (01:39):
Amazing.
So you have almost 25 years ofmarketing experience, You're the
CEO of your own advertisingagency and you have a great
podcast Deals with Heels.
We're ready to be inspired.
Why don't you share a storywith us about some of the best
marketing you've done, themarketing that you're the most
proud of?
Debra Bowers (01:59):
Oddly enough I just had a recent campaign it's
almost we have one week left init and it's for a local client
here.
They are a swimming poolcompany.
They build swimming pools, soit's really a big deal for them
to be able to schedule outthrough the winter during their
(02:19):
hot season, which is the summer.
Once it starts getting back toschool, people forget about the
pool and all of that kind ofstuff and it's not top of mind.
So they really try to buildthat momentum and schedule as
much as possible through thesummer.
And this particular poolcompany had been struggling with
that and just really losing allof their business, all their
(02:41):
momentum, because they wouldstop advertising in about July.
And so I came on about thebeginning of the business, all
their momentum because theywould stop advertising in about
July.
And so I came on about thebeginning of the year and we put
a plan in place and it involveda lot of different touch points
.
It involved some traditionalones we ran television
commercials both on broadcastand on connected TV, so
(03:03):
streaming television, both onbroadcast and on connected TV,
so streaming television.
It involved digital that onsome local broadcast stations,
but also digital display anddigital search ads and it had a
lot of organic social mediainvolved.
We also did a promotion calledSummer of Fun where they gave
(03:27):
away pool stuff and got a lot ofpublicity for that, and that
came with a little bit ofoutdoor and I really liked it
for a couple of reasons.
One we're booked all the wayinto the spring of next year, so
it was highly effective forthem, which is good and bad,
because now they don't need youanymore Good problem to have.
But to book them out that faron a fairly new company was
(03:48):
really a big deal and I enjoyedworking with it.
I produced the televisioncommercial and my client was in
it at the end and it was reallyawesome.
He was just like you want topull, and so it was his face on
everything.
All the media tied together andit had really big results and
exactly what we wanted to happenhappened.
(04:09):
I love when a plan comestogether.
Eric Eden (04:14):
And so that's what you do is you help your clients
get big results with advertisingright?
Debra Bowers (04:19):
We do.
That is the majority of what Ido.
I do some sales coaching too,but I really feel like all
marketing is sales, and some ofmy marketing peers will say, no,
what about communityinvolvement?
What about?
I was like, yeah, there's areason we send that press
release, isn't there Right?
If we were just beingphilanthropic, we wouldn't send
(04:42):
the press release.
So we send the press releasebecause we want publicity.
And why do we want publicity?
To get more sales.
So it is sales.
It's just selling in a softervoice, and so part of what I do
is coach companies and people onhow to make content that sells.
There's a lot of content beingmade right now and none of it
(05:03):
sells.
So tying all of that intogether is really important,
and that cohesive message thatties into the sales funnel and
through all of the media andconsistency is how you get
really big results.
Eric Eden (05:18):
Why is it that some people produce so much content
but it doesn't really help themsell?
Debra Bowers (05:24):
Because they don't have sales experience.
And my industry has gotten verysegmented.
Our industry right.
We have content creators, wehave videographers, we have
photographers, we have brandingphotographers, we have digital
marketing companies, socialmedia marketing companies,
social media managed webdevelopers they're all out there
(05:46):
and, to the small businessperson, we all do the same thing
.
They don't really understandthe difference and I commend a
lot of those social media andcontent creating.
They learned how to use CapCutover the shutdown and built big
businesses from it.
And I'm an entrepreneur and I'mlike hell yeah, let's go.
(06:08):
But at the end of the day, ifyou don't sell your products and
services, you're going to goout of business and you don't
have the privilege of making allof that content.
So it's really important and alot of the marketing
professionals that are out there, or content people that are out
there, don't have the marketingtraining or sales experience to
(06:32):
be able to convert that.
And it's really important thata small business owner pick that
piece up themselves and reallylook at what they're doing and
how is this going to get mebusiness?
And ask those questions,because you will know really
quickly if they have a plan foractually selling and bringing in
business or if they're justgoing to make content and it's
(06:54):
not.
That content isn't important,bringing eyeballs in is
important.
Is it the most important thingthat you spend thousands of
dollars doing?
Absolutely not, and I thinkthat there's just a
misunderstanding that peoplethink if they build it, they
will come.
If I make all this content,it's going to get sales and it
(07:15):
just doesn't work that way.
Eric Eden (07:18):
So when working with teams on content marketing, one
of the things I've tried to dois set a goal.
For example, if you have anebook, try to get 10% of the
people who download the ebook totake you up on an offer that
you included in the ebook.
So some percentage of thepeople consuming the content
that's reasonable would take youup on an offer that you
(07:39):
included in the ebook.
Is that the sort of thingyou're getting at in terms of
including the sales and themarketing material?
Debra Bowers (07:48):
It is part of it.
It is part of it, but also justbuilding a campaign that starts
with a hook right and then youhave some bait to put on that
hook and you've got just a fewseconds to grab them before
they're gone in a video.
So if you're not starting with,do you want to lose weight?
If you do, you really want tohear what this next video says.
(08:11):
You really have to lure them inright To get them to even watch
your content.
But and then baiting it with anoffer that's really important
in sales content and to notreally come across super
hardcore selling.
But really, if you think aboutyour marketing, your media, your
networking, all of the thingsthat you do, if you think of it
(08:35):
in terms of building demand foryour products and services,
branding when I first startedout, it was demand building,
then it became image building.
We're building our image andnow it's branding.
It's the same thing Buildingdemand for your products and
your services and you as thepreferred provider of those.
That's really creativeadvertising.
(08:56):
And then you have offer right,where you're telling them that
it's for sale and how they canget it, and then you have direct
response Come and get it right.
Now it's on sale.
Come get it.
This is the best deal ever.
And that cycle really flowsthrough whether and it doesn't
matter how you're delivering themessage, whether you're doing
(09:16):
it with organic content oryou're doing it with paid
advertising, social media, video, print, it doesn't matter If
you follow that flow, thenyou're constantly filling that
bucket and building demand.
Eric Eden (09:30):
I think that's great.
I love that book by BrendanCain Hookpoint.
So I totally agree having ahook to grab people.
I think you have seven secondswith videos to grab people's
attention before they just areon to the next video if you
don't hook them.
So I agree with that 100%.
But one of the things youmentioned was the psychology of
sales and marketing.
(09:51):
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat you've done in that area
and what you've learned salesand marketing?
Can?
Debra Bowers (09:56):
you talk a little bit about what you've done in
that area and what you'velearned.
Years ago, like a couple ofdecades ago, I worked for a
company that did somepersonality testing and every
company does that stuff right.
This one stuck with me and I'vemodified it as time has gone on
and buying preferences havechanged and we've really gotten
more on recommendations, right.
(10:17):
That's really important topeople.
Now this works for my friend.
Is it going to work for me withall of the first person video
all over TikTok and Reels andall of the things?
So the psychology of sales isreally understanding your
buyer's personality and how theyprefer to be communicated with
buyers' personality and how theyprefer to be communicated with
(10:38):
it's.
For example, if you're athinker, right, there's a group
of people that are thinkers.
They have to have a lot ofinformation.
They want to really learn aboutit and digest it.
It's more about figuring it allout than it is shopping around
and looking for another deal.
And if you can tell that you'redealing with a thinker, then
(11:03):
you're never going to close them.
Today they're not closable.
You think they are becausethey're interested and they want
information, but they will justlet you keep giving it to them
and it can be really frustratingif you identify them up front,
you give them information, youput them on a drip campaign from
your email campaign and yousend them a little bit of
information and three monthslater they come in, they're
(11:24):
ready to buy and you didn'twaste a ton of time and get
discouraged so discouraging whenyou think you can get a sale
and then it doesn't happen.
The same is true for all of yourmarketing and advertising.
If you put a campaign togetherand it doesn't get sales, it's
really discouraging but it'simportant to adjust.
But you can do marketingcampaigns around those buying
(11:47):
preferences as well and thosebuying emotions.
People buy for fear reasons orfor that feeling of I have to
have the very next best thing,those early adapters.
So, taking into account whatyour product and service is and
what kind of emotions triggerpeople to buy it, and there'll
(12:08):
be multiple ones and I wouldseparate them and then you do
separate types of contentmarketing to each of those and
that's how I would do it.
That's how I use the sales.
I use a lot of sales psychologyand sales coaching more than I
do in media, but it's importantin those macro large segments of
(12:31):
the population and how they buy.
So, moms, they have specificthings that they buy and buying
patterns for their family.
Eric Eden (12:41):
What's the most important thing you teach people
in sales coaching.
Debra Bowers (12:45):
There is nothing more important than mindset in
all forms of sales.
Sales is a transfer ofenthusiasm.
I'm so excited about being ableto help people with this
product and service and I wantto tell it to you and that it
that can't be duplicated, thatcan't be faked, that
(13:07):
authenticity and you have tohave that mindset when you come
in.
Sales can be discouraging.
It can be exhilarating andexciting, but it's a lot of
sometimes up and then down andup and down.
And prospecting is hard too,especially cold calling.
You get told no a lot, and soyour mindset is key to
(13:31):
everything.
It helps you not getdiscouraged.
It keeps you disciplined whenno one's motivated every day,
let's face it.
So you have to have somethingto keep you going and for
discipline, and there is nothingmore important than mindset.
Eric Eden (13:48):
I love that.
Let me ask you a lot of peoplehave said that advertising is
getting tougher because it'sgetting more expensive,
particularly on platforms likeGoogle and Facebook and LinkedIn
, particularly in the onlineadvertising area.
How can people get big resultsfor advertising when the
(14:10):
perception is that it's one ofthe more expensive ways to get
clients?
Debra Bowers (14:15):
Let's face it, advert advertising isn't cheap,
right, and like everything, itgoes up with inflation as well.
I think the most importantthing is to spend your money
efficiently.
So if you're abusiness-to-business person like
me, I work with otherbusinesses.
I don't really work withconsumers, although consumers
can refer business to me.
(14:36):
I work with other businesses.
I don't really work withconsumers, although consumers
can refer business to me.
So it would be a horrible ideafor me to spend a lot of paid
ads on Facebook.
It's just not the best placefor business to business.
So one, pick your platformappropriately and even if it's a
platform you don't personallyenjoy spending time on for
example, nextdoor app just abunch of people bitching on
(14:58):
there but the feel type to me.
But for a home, if you've got ahome services business, then
that's a great place to be andthey're cheap.
And so feeling around for whichof the platforms is best for
your target audience that you'retrying to hit with that
specific paid campaign isimportant, but also adding a lot
(15:20):
of other things with it All ofyour organic content, networking
, all of those touch points,people that get your business
card or see your truck down theroad with your logo on it.
Those are important too.
So having all of that cohesiveand being together will help,
because it allows thoseimpressions to tie together
right.
(15:40):
Otherwise they don't know it'syou.
They don't get to count that ifthey can't see your logo on it.
But that's the most importantthing with advertising is
eliminate as much of theimpressions you're paying for
from people that are never goingto buy your product and
services.
So if you're targeting women,let's eliminate the men from the
(16:03):
equation.
Let's advertise on thoseplatforms that have the majority
of women on them and target themessage towards that.
That's the best way.
Eric Eden (16:12):
I think that's great advice, and you said you did
some connected TV advertising inyour story for the swimming
pool company.
Is that an area that you oftenrecommend that you've had
success with?
I haven't experimented verymuch with connected TV, but I'm
interested with the streamingand connected TV.
It seems like an interestingnewer area of marketing an
(16:34):
interesting, newer area ofmarketing, the thing that I like
.
Debra Bowers (16:37):
I like a few things about connected TV.
One, you're able to target it.
So let's say, I only want tosend television to this city and
only the people that make over$300,000 a year and you can
really get targeted on thataudience and only they see your
(16:57):
commercials on streaming TV.
It's much more technologicallyadvanced in that respect than
traditional televisioncommercials that just go all
over the DMA and I may not wantto go 100 miles away for a
customer and there's a lot ofpeople that don't, and so you
can really target it towardsthat.
A lot of people that don't, andso you can really target it
(17:19):
towards that.
And huge portions of thepopulation right now don't have
any kind of cable or satellite.
They are all running onstreaming services.
So if you don't add connectedTV in, then you're missing a
huge portion of the populationthat only watch streaming TV,
especially younger generation.
They are really tied in tostreaming TV.
Even myself, I watch a ton ofstreaming TV.
(17:42):
And so those programs that havecommercials so who?
All of them were starting toadd commercials, right, even
Netflix.
And so those commercials thatsometimes you can preempt and
sometimes you can't.
The ones you can pre preempt,are usually called pre-rolls.
They come before something.
It's not cannabis industry, ally'all out there saying the
(18:04):
pre-roll, but connected TV is agreat way to dip in to
television advertising withouthaving the huge expense of
broadcast TV and to limit it toyour audience.
So it's more efficiently spentand I love it for those reasons.
It's still expensive foradvertising, but worth it if you
(18:27):
can really target and get inthose eyeballs.
Eric Eden (18:31):
So I've been seeing this year in particular, a lot
of the cable companies that wereso strong over the last 30
years have been doing massivewrite-offs and layoffs,
unfortunately, of people,because everyone has gone to
streaming connected TV.
So is cable dead?
Are all the ad dollars fromcable now going into connected
(18:52):
TV and streaming?
Debra Bowers (18:55):
I'm going to say no connected TV and streaming.
I'm going to say no andprerequisite by telling you my
very first marketing job out ofcollege was with a company
called Multimedia Cablevision,and they were purchased by Cox
Communications about a yearafter I left in this market.
And so I you know.
(19:15):
There were board meetings andmeetings, management meetings we
sent in being terrified ofwhat's happening today, when
they knew things like Netflixwere coming, even if they were a
decade away and I don't thinkit's dead, I think there's
always going to be some, justlike you still have people that
listen to regular FM radio, butthat population is definitely
(19:39):
getting less and less.
And I'll be honest, I can'ttell you the last time I bought
ads on cable.
I have obviously done somebroadcast campaigns, but I
haven't done cable in a coolminute.
So if there is somewhere that'sstruggling for ad revenue, that
very well may be it.
But also if you want toadvertise in sporting events or
(20:04):
any of those things that are onESPN or Fox Sports, any of those
types of programming, you'regoing to be best bet on cable.
So there's always going to be aplace for some of that and for
regionally, I think cablesometimes is a good place to go.
I don't have anybody that fitsreally in that has that big of a
(20:25):
budget to spend on big sportspackages.
Those kinds of things I thinkare always going to be cable
driven and until eventually Iguess it can all.
I mean, I was at my daughterand son-in-law's.
They had YouTube TV and he hadfour games going during college
football at the same time up ontheir TV, and so that was pretty
(20:46):
exciting to be able to see, andI hadn't done that yet.
Eric Eden (20:51):
So I think it'll be interesting to see how things
evolve.
I think on the content side,it's also a challenge for the
cable networks because producingthe content is so expensive for
everybody, including thestreaming companies.
So it's hard if you don't havethe ad revenue to afford to
create a lot of the greatcontent.
But there's probably someindustries like sports is a
great example where it stillmakes sense.
(21:13):
But it's going to beinteresting to see how that
really evolves.
Let me ask you about yourpodcast Deals with Heels.
It's about entrepreneurs, womenentrepreneurs, and the
challenges they face.
Debra Bowers (21:30):
Talk to us a little bit about the podcast and
about that.
The podcast is officially Dealswith Heels, where female
entrepreneurs thrive, and wedeal a lot with entrepreneurism
and the things it takes to besuccessful.
We do delve a lot into femaleempowerment and the things that
we struggle with as femaleentrepreneurs and, historically,
(21:52):
how those things have evolved,and we talk a lot about mindset
and personal growth and howimportant it is to success, and
so we have a lot of malelisteners too, but all of our
content is delivered by womenand there is definitely a female
element to it that the issuesthat we discuss are always how
(22:13):
it relates to us as women, butwe love it.
We've had some great guests.
We're in the middle of seasontwo, and so we're really excited
about it.
We have had some great salesand marketing guests this season
, some that dealt with salespsychology that we talked about,
and some that dealt with, likecontent-based SEO, which is a
(22:33):
little bit different.
So things that I'm reallypassionate about sales and
marketing.
We got to get a lot of that intoo.
Eric Eden (22:42):
That's awesome.
One of the things I love aboutpodcasting is you can serve all
of these great verticals andniches that people really need,
so I think that's a greatresource for female
entrepreneurs and founders, whoneed that kind of inspiration.
I encourage everyone to checkthat out, and you also have an
(23:02):
e-book where people can.
If they've liked some of theinsights in this episode, they
can get a copy of that.
Talk about that for a littlebit.
Debra Bowers (23:11):
The e-book is Five Steps to Having a Mindset
for Success is Five Steps toHaving a Mindset for Success and
it's a quick version of thesteps that I personally went
through, not like with a guide,but that I just figured out and
that really helped me turn mylife around, and how it relates
to business.
(23:31):
It's available on my HexagonMedia website, hexagonmedianet,
and I encourage everyone tocheck it out.
Eric Eden (23:41):
Awesome.
I will link to that in the shownotes.
Some people can get somevisibility into what you learn
from the School of Life.
Debra Bowers (23:50):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
Unfortunately, you don't learna lot with fun, do you?
Eric Eden (23:58):
That's not usually the way it works out,
unfortunately.
You don't learn a lot with fun,do you?
That's not usually the way itworks out, unfortunately, but I
think people can benefit fromwhat you've learned, so I'll
link that in the show notes sopeople can easily get to it.
Thanks for being with us today,Debra, and sharing all these
insights.
We really appreciate it.
Great to have you on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Debra Bowers (24:14):
I had a great time.
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