May 14, 2025 • 58 mins
For a long time, I thought I needed closure to move on. I thought I needed that one final conversation, the apology, the explanation, the moment that would tie it all together and make it make sense.
But what I’ve learned is that closure doesn’t always come. And even when it does… it doesn’t always heal.
In this episode, I’m sharing the hard truths about closure—the ways we chase it, the reasons we cling to it, and the power we give away while waiting for it. Whether it’s a relationship, a friendship, or something you’ve been holding onto for years, I want to help you see thathealing is still possible… even without a final word.
We’ll talk about:
- Why closure is more about us than the other person
- The difference between closure and clarity
- And why your healing doesn’t have to wait for someone else’s words and/or actions
If you’ve ever felt stuck in the in-between—hoping for something that may never come—this episode is for you.
What if you’re not stuck because of what they didn’t say…but because you haven’t stopped hoping they will?
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I used to think I needed closure.
Like truly believed that if Ihad just one more conversation,
one more explanation, one moremoment to say my peace, then I'd
finally be able to move on.
But let me tell you what reallyhappened.
I chased closure like it was themissing key to my peace.
(00:22):
I sat through conversations thatdrained me, hoping for an answer
that would make it all makesense.
I got apologies that didn't healme.
Explanations that only gave memore questions, and silence that
left me spinning.
And after all that, I still feltstuck.
I still replayed the moments.
(00:43):
I still wondered what I couldhave said or what I should have
said.
And that's when it hit me.
Closure isn't something someoneelse gives you, it's something
you decide for yourself.
And if you're waiting forsomeone else to give you peace,
you'll be waiting forever.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
(01:05):
something meaningful.
Welcome back, y'all, to anotherepisode.
I am your host, AlexandriaRobinson, and I am really happy
that you have joined me foranother episode.
If this is your first time here,welcome.
Thank you for taking time out ofyour busy schedule and your busy
(01:26):
life to join me.
And if you are returning, thankyou for coming back.
Thank you for listening toanother episode.
We've had a really good seasonor you know, continuation of
episodes so far.
And I cannot be more happy aboutjust the hours of work and
content that I put out there sofar.
(01:47):
And I really hope and pray thatyou guys are enjoying it as much
as I have and did, you know,recording and researching and
being able to package everythingfor you guys.
One of the things that I don'tdo enough that I see from other
podcasts is I don't feel like Iincorporate myself enough.
And I know it's important foryou all to know me as the what
(02:09):
am I called?
A podcasteer, the host.
Okay, the host.
There we go.
Um, for you all to know me as ahost, to like know that I'm
human, know that I'm, you know,what's going on and what's not.
And I I just don't do well withlike life updates because in my
mind, I'm like, who cares?
Like they don't want to hearabout me.
Um, but but I I notice when Iwatch other people's podcasts
(02:31):
and I hear like what they'redoing, what they're working on,
and you know, podcasts that Ilisten to often, it doesn't
bother me to hear about them,right?
It's different if somebody'slike, you know, humble bragging
or doing, you know, you you knowwhat I mean, like doing
something else.
But um, I I love to hear whatpeople are working on and doing.
So I was like, you know, I needto incorporate some more life
updates, especially, you know,coming with all this, you know,
(02:54):
heavier content and stuff.
I'm like, let me break it upwith some of what's just
happening, right?
Um, lots are happening over herein the Robinson household.
And right now we're reallynavigating, trying to figure out
the direction that we go in asindividuals when it comes to my
(03:16):
husband and myself and ourcareers and opportunities that
we have.
We're trying to navigate, youknow, the options that we have,
and then we're trying to look atus as a family unit and figure
out where do we move our family,what direction is our family
going in.
And so it's not about like it'snot questioning in a way of we
we're lost that we don't know.
(03:37):
It's questioning in the way ofthere's like multiple paths that
we can take.
You know, you're standing atthat road with four different
roads, and you're like, okay, Idon't know which one do we go?
This one, do we go that one?
Do we go this one?
Do we go that one?
And that's where we're at,right?
And so, um, yeah, we're we'retrying to figure it out.
We are young in the grand schemeof things.
I know they were trying to say30 is old, but like we're 33,
(03:59):
trying to seemingly create alife that we've not personally
experienced firsthand, and thatcan be very difficult.
That's everything from our ourmarriage being you know healthy
to our children being raisedright to our household to to our
eating.
So we are on this eliminationdiet, and we are learning to
(04:22):
we're learning what we need toeliminate and take out of our
diet.
We we're doing that because weand I should say my husband
found out some information aboutjust how much the food we're
eating is causing theinflammation in our body and our
sickness, and actually it kindof it goes back into um what's
the episode child?
(04:44):
Um it goes back into the episodebroken souls, broken bodies,
right?
And how I was talking about, youknow, oftentimes what's
happening in your soul is whatis affecting your body.
But there is a very real thingthat we have to acknowledge is
that our our our health isreally important.
Our health is essential, right?
(05:05):
Walking, what we're eating, whatwe're what we're putting in our
body, right?
Um, which is the same thing aswhat we're eating, but I'm I
kind of meant like consuming toomedications, vitamins, things
like that.
And so we're now on thisjourney, even though we're young
and we don't have any, you know,major health issues.
We really wanted to start ourfamily early on, eliminating
(05:27):
added sugars, eliminatingcertain oils, vegetable oils,
palm oils, and and and hearinghow these industries are huge
moneymakers, and hearing howpeople are going in for real
things, but only gettingprescribed medicine when it's
just their eating habits.
And and I'm gonna be honest withy'all, it's not easy, like
(05:50):
having to take out the thingsthat you've been eating for 30
years.
Oh, yeah, like y'all, I promiseyou sometimes I feel like a
twitch is coming, but I'm also alittle dramatic, so but yeah, so
we've been on that, we've beenon our health journey, we've
been trying to figure out, likeI said, our paths, our careers.
Um, we homeschool our children,so my oldest is in first grade,
(06:13):
and he's doing really well withhomeschool.
And then my second, he'll bestarting kindergarten um towards
the you know, new in the newschool year, so August,
September.
And we're we're a young familyreally trying to just navigate
the world, trying to figure outwhat our next steps are, where
we go, how we give our childrenwhat we didn't have, but also
(06:35):
keep them humble and respectfuland hardworking.
You know, we don't want kidsthat always got their hand out,
right?
We want kids that know theygotta work for what they get.
So, yeah, that's just like a fewlife updates.
Also, I didn't I didn't knowthat I was gonna put this in
here, but you know, I might aswell might as well tell y'all.
(06:56):
Like, I so I've shared beforethat I work for the federal
government and I was actually apart of the mass, you know, deep
downsizing of the government,and so I was able to take their
little offer instead of themlike pushing me out, which I'm
I'm grateful that I did thatoption, but that was really
(07:16):
hard.
And it was it was so hard to inthe beginning having to make
such a quick decision, finallyfinding a place that I saw
myself out for 10 years or ormore, finally finding like a
career where in a place where Icould go in many directions, it
(07:36):
was very comfortable, itprovided so much stability for
my family, and to have it justkind of like taken away um was
heartbreaking.
And while I don't be honest, Idon't disagree with the things
that they were saying, andthat's something that I've been
transparent about with anybodythat I've talked to about this.
I don't disagree with the thingsthat they were saying.
(07:58):
I've was I've worked for bothprivate sector and I've worked
for the public sector, and thereare strong differences, and
there are a lot of things in thepublic sector that people get
away with that they couldn't getaway with in the private sector,
right?
Pros and cons for sure.
But it still didn't feel good,it still was very hard to wrap
my mind around that my careerwas over, um, and probably won't
(08:20):
have much to go back to if thatwas an option.
But let me tell you guys, likethat was probably one of the
biggest blessings in disguise.
I did not want to see it thatway, but it has opened up so
many doors and opportunities forme personally that I think are
gonna pay off in the long run.
And because they let me go, Iwas like, I'm not going back to
(08:42):
another job where I gotta workmy way from the bottom to the
top, where I gotta deal with allthese personalities.
Like, I cannot wrap my mindaround having to crawl up that
ladder again.
And so I made a differentdecision when I'm not quite
ready to share yet, but Ipromise when the time is right,
I will share.
Um, but I I made a differentdecision and I talked to my
(09:04):
husband about it, and I wassuper scared, but I feel more
sure about the direction thatI'm going in and um thankful,
honestly, like overwhelminglygrateful because I am that
person that gets what that getscomfortable.
I would have stayed there, Iwould have not gone anywhere and
(09:25):
just been chilling.
I would have just I would havebeen chilling for the next 10
years doing my stuff still onthe side.
But God was like, nope, nope.
Looking at it, I'm like, oh, youreally gotta push us.
You will he he knew it wasn't noleaving my job if I didn't get
(09:48):
pushed because I wascomfortable, it was stable, it
was great for my children.
I'll put up with it, you know.
Um, after but I was so mad,y'all, because after all them
years of going through managerafter manager, and then I
finally got a manager that I gotalong with well that I really
enjoy working with.
And I'm like, are you serious?
I had to spend all that timeunder them other folks.
(10:08):
But anyways, so I digress.
I just wanted to give a coupleof life updates, just have like
a really casual conversation,break up some of this, you know,
heavier content, like I said.
But, you know, that's enough, Ithink.
I think you guys got enough.
Always feel free to follow me onsocial media.
Um, I'll probably I'll talkabout that at some point, but I
haven't been as active justbecause social media has just
(10:29):
become so toxic.
Um, but sign up for the emaillist, that's a good way to
connect with me.
Send me emails, you know, likefeel free to contact me off of
this if you ever want to know.
But I'll keep sharing, you know,some life updates just so you
all know, like, I'm a very realperson.
I'm not just spewing out contentthat I'm not trying to live
through or haven't livedthrough, or I'm not just sitting
(10:52):
up here like in a in a glasshouse as if everything's so
perfect.
I don't know.
Does the glass house perfect?
That's a good question.
unknown (10:59):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Anyways, I'm I'm just not, you know, I just want
you all to know, like, I'mhuman.
I'm working through things.
We have so many things going onin our family and in our
household as I am recording thispodcast.
When I'm not doing this podcast,I'm doing something, you know,
especially on this diet.
I gotta cook all the time nowbecause when you start reading
labels in the store, you realizeyou can't have Jack Diddly
(11:22):
Squat.
So, anyways, lots of lifethings.
I'm I'm really happy that I'mable to give you guys this
update and that it was um youknow on my heart to do that.
So let's jump into today'sepisode.
I think it's gonna be a reallygood one.
As you all heard in the intro,we're gonna be talking about
(11:44):
closure.
And as you also heard, I am thatgirl who chased closure.
And so in this episode, we'regonna be talking about why we
chase closure.
Um, we're gonna talk about howclosure doesn't equal relief.
I want to share more about mystruggle and my experience with
closure, and then I want to talkabout what happens when we never
(12:07):
get those answers that we want.
So let's go ahead and dive rightin.
Why we chase closure.
In order to really unpack thatquestion and understand, we
gotta we gotta nerd out a littlebit, okay?
Um, our the brain, it cravescertainty.
(12:27):
We want answers to make sense ofwhy something ended.
We want validation to confirmthat our pain was real, we want
resolution to tie up loose endsand move forward.
We crave certainty.
And there was um a study donecalled the caught and from that
study produced the cognitiveclosure theory.
(12:49):
And this study found that humanshave a strong psychological need
to avoid ambiguity.
And when they have experiencesthat feel unresolved, our brains
perceive uncertainty as athreat.
And so it causes us to becomeanxious and distressed.
And so this need is so strongthat we often prioritize any
(13:10):
explanation over the rightexplanation.
Research shows that people wouldrather have an incomplete or
incorrect answer than remainuncertain.
And that's me.
That's your girl.
I've done that to myself plentyof times.
But I want to take us becausewhen I was doing this, I knew I
(13:33):
wanted to do this episode, andI'm gonna tell more about my
struggle with this episode injust a few moments.
But I knew I was coming underthis episode, but I got so
curious about okay, where didthis idea of closure come from?
And so that's what I want totalk about y'all, like the
origins of closure.
So in the early 20th century,um, there were different
theories that were introduced,and one of them was the gestalt
(13:56):
psychology.
Hopefully, I'm saying thatcorrectly.
Um, but it focused on how thebrain seeks patterns and
completion.
And then from that, there wasthis principle that came, and
from that principle, itsuggested that our brains hold
on to unfinished tasks orunresolved situations more
intensely than completed ones.
So that's the early 20thcentury, right?
(14:17):
They have these studies, it'sstarting to, they're starting to
understand how our brainsfunction.
We don't like uncertainty.
As I've already said, we werelooking for patterns, we're
looking for completion.
So then later in the 1950s andin the 1960s, psychologists who
started studying grief andtrauma started using the word
closure.
So we have to pause for a minuteand acknowledge that the 1950s
(14:41):
and 1960s coming up with a newword and a new idea is kind of
crazy.
It's kind of crazy because wehave been existing for so long.
And when you look at the ancientphilosophers and when you look
at ancient wisdom from, I mean,all over, right?
From from Asia, from theAmericas, from Mexico, like
(15:03):
wherever you're looking at theseare South America, like where
like wherever you're findingthese ideas from from people
that have been here since theearly days, beginning days, and
we see those patterns continueon, it makes more sense to let
me how can I say this?
Like, it helps us to connect thedots better because we can see
(15:23):
that when we're establishingsomething about humans, it's
something that has existed sincethe beginning of time or since
our early days.
And I hope that's making sense.
When you have somethingintroduced to you as late as the
1950s and the 1960s, you mightsuggest that there's a flaw.
(15:45):
It honestly might suggest that,especially because we know now
that in that time and even now,child, the the studies that have
come out from a lot ofpsychologists are being forged,
they're being forced upon us,their data is heavily skewed and
(16:06):
not accurate, not interpretedcorrectly.
Um, and so when I when I readthat, that the word closure
didn't come until the 1950s and60s, I was like, okay, starting
to make sense now.
Um, and then in that time,that's when they started to see
and say that closure was thefinal step of the grieving
(16:27):
process.
Their intention was to helppeople move forward after loss,
betrayal, or heartbreak.
And I'm not mad at them forthat.
I get why a therapist orsomebody trying to help people
through um certain situations,they're also craving an answer
for people who seem hurt andlost and broken and confused.
(16:49):
And so their answer to that wasoh, you gotta close the loop.
You have to establish what iswhat has happened.
You have to give your brain thecertainty, the completion, the
ending of that circle.
You have to give it that inorder for you to move on.
And so they took the studies andthe theories and what we knew
(17:10):
and they added something thatmade sense.
Oh, we clearly have to close thedoor, close your like we had
now.
I'm not saying that that's whythey came up with it.
That was that was your girl.
But um, no, we but we have to uhwe have to we have to close this
chapter, we have to close thisdoor.
I mean, we've all heard thosethings, so it makes sense.
I'm not mad at them, right?
(17:30):
But from that, right, as we moveon, from that 1950s, 1960s, they
start using that word, theyintroduce that word closure,
starts going around, then therebecomes the the cultural
obsession.
And in our modern times, theconcept of closure exploded.
Movies and TV, they'reconstantly indoctrinating us
(17:52):
with this idea of gettingclosure or needing closure,
especially when it comes torelationships.
But we've seen the turn becomewith friendships, and and when I
say relationships, I meanromantic relationships, and now
we've seen the turn to befriendships and in parent
relationships and you know,teach whatever it is, right?
Like, but how many movies or orshows have you seen?
(18:14):
And I would say maybeparticularly movies, but we see
it in all in all music too,okay?
Music too, poetry, whatever itis.
We're we were indoctrinated withthis need and this idea of
getting closure.
And what I was saying was, howmany movies have you seen where
the whole movie they're tryingto get closure?
And the whole movie is about theidea that this person is not
(18:34):
going to be able to move onuntil they get the closure.
And then therapy and poppsychology, um, through those
means, self-help content pushthe idea that healing wasn't
possible until closure wasachieved.
That industry of therapy and allthe self-help books and all the,
(18:58):
I mean, they're like, No, youcan't heal until you get that
closure, until you get thatconversation, until you get
those answers.
So we have the true crime andthe justice systems.
Families of victims, they'reoften told that they need
closure through a conviction orconfession, even though that
doesn't undo the pain.
And so from the introduction ofclosure, then we we've seen
(19:22):
that, you know, become morepopular and just explode through
again our cultural obsession.
I think it probably felt to manylike, yes, that's what I've been
missing, that's what I need.
And in this past like 15 to 20years, we've started to see this
shift away from this idea.
We we have started to see thatpeople are changing how we talk
(19:46):
about healing, how we talk abouttrauma, even the conversations
that we have in therapy, becausepeople started realizing that
healing is internal, notexternal.
That closure became an excusefor avoidance.
People would delay, as I've asI've admitted to, delay their
healing, waiting for an ex toexplain why they left or a
(20:09):
former friend to admit what theydid.
Closure became a way for peopleto hold on and not let go.
And the irony is when we'reseeking closure, it often keeps
us tied to what hurt us.
It's just another conversation,another reason to reach out,
(20:30):
another way to stay attachedinstead of truly moving on.
I don't know if you said this, Iknow I have.
I can't move on until I can'tlet go until I need answers.
And as much as I believe and amoff social media because, or not
(20:51):
off, but you know, like I said,not participating in social
media as much because it's justso toxic.
Um, social media did help inthis shift that more people
started sharing their real lifestories of getting closure,
going after closure, andrealizing that it changed
nothing.
And that caused people to watchthese videos and reels and
TikToks and whatever and connectwith that YouTube videos,
(21:13):
writing stories and hear theirstories and connect and say,
Yeah, same thing happened to meand same thing here.
And um, in the first season, inthe episode on grieving
relationships, I believe, Ishared an article about the
therapist who told her patientthat he was still waiting for an
(21:34):
apology from his dad, somethingthat he was never gonna get, and
that in order to heal, he had tolearn how to heal and move on
without it.
So we have definitely seen thisshift, shifting away from
closure.
And I and I love that.
But we can't act as if closureis still not being pushed
because it is.
It's an easy storyline, okay?
It's really good forentertainment, it's like, you
(21:56):
know, giving us this alternativereality.
Because we don't always want towatch a show or a TV that
reflects real life.
We want people to get theirmoment, to get their last word,
to get their, you know, whateverit is.
You know, we talked about thatin the revenge episode in season
one, right?
You got to get your link back.
Like we we we want to see thathappen.
And so closure is still beingpushed.
(22:18):
It's still giving people falsehope, you know, you know, again.
And it keeps people consuming,honestly.
It keeps people consuming thebooks, the therapy, the
self-help content, that promiseof closure, it keeps people
hooked on seeking answersinstead of deciding to heal.
(22:39):
So even though it's gettingbetter, it's not all gone.
Our entire mindset and languagehas not shifted.
And people, they pursue closurebecause they believe it will
provide relief from emotionalpain or confusion or grief.
And studies on relationshipendings and grief, they show
(23:00):
that receiving answers oftendoesn't significantly reduce
emotional distress.
In fact, it can trigger morequestions and dissatisfaction.
Because the reality that we aretrying to face here is that
closure doesn't equal relief andthat closure is a lie.
You don't need it to getanswers, and you don't need it
for your healing.
And according to psychologistNancy Burns, she has a book
called Closure (23:22):
The Rush to End Grief and What It Cost Us.
And in full transparency, I havenot read this book in its
entirety.
I'm trying to get my hands onit.
But in the book, what she talksabout is how closure is a myth
that society created.
And how often seeking closureonly prolongs pain and prevents
genuine healing.
As I I seemingly just mentioned,that when you're trying to go
(23:45):
and get the answers, it doesn'treduce your emotional distress.
It triggers even more within youbecause you hear them say
something, and then you'rewondering, well, how the heck
did you get to there?
Now you just spoon feeding mesome BS and we need to sift
through this.
And yeah, I struggled with doingthis episode.
(24:10):
And I was really surprised aboutthat.
I it was harder than I thoughtit was gonna be.
Because I I I knew this.
Like I I felt comfortabletalking about this because I'm
like, yeah, I realize closure isa myth, closure is a lie.
Like, yeah, I know, you know, Ican't be clo um chasing after
closure.
But when I was trying to finishthis episode, I had so much
(24:33):
apprehension, so much um Istarted procrastinating, and I
just couldn't figure out likewhy am I struggling so bad with
approaching this conversation?
And then that's when I had toadmit out loud.
I said that the reason that I'mstruggling with this episode is
because I am that girl whobelieved and said out loud that
(24:56):
I needed closure.
And I wish I could let y'allinto my brain just so y'all can
see.
There was no tug of war in mymind growing up and all the way
into young adulthood, you know,mid-20s, late 20s.
There was no tug of war where Iwas like, maybe closure is bad,
(25:18):
maybe closure is not.
No, I lived my life thinking Ihave to get closure every chance
I can get.
I have to have thatconversation, I have to say what
I need to say, I have to do whatI need to do.
Um, it just wasn't somethingthat I wavered in between.
I thought that I had to getclosure no matter what.
And when I didn't get it, itkept me in a loop, in a cycle
(25:40):
where I was constantly thinkingabout the situation or the
person, and then thinking, okay,maybe one day they'll come back
around and I'll get my closure.
Someone just pushed that off tothe side.
I'm not really gonna deal withit.
And so I live my life thinkingthat or yeah, believing or
thinking that the reason why Iwas struggling with, you know,
like I said, the cycle ofthoughts or thinking about that
(26:01):
person, that situation, why Icouldn't let it go, why I was
having dreams, why it'sconstantly on my mind, why I go
to sleep thinking about it, wakeup, wake up thinking about it.
I conditioned myself to believethat it was because I didn't get
the closure.
Not because I wasn't healing, ornot because I needed to really
talk about what was reallyhappening to me.
(26:22):
It was like, yeah, I could dothat part, but I still need the
closure, I still need theconversation.
But then, y'all, let me tell youwhat happened.
I got closure.
I went after closureintentionally in my young adult,
so maybe like 28, 29, when I sayyoung adult, um, 28, yeah,
(26:43):
probably like 28, 29, yeah.
Um, I went after this closure sointentionally, and I really paid
attention to that moment becauseright before going into that
conversation, this was the firsttime that someone told me that I
didn't need closure.
And that sounded so crazy to me.
(27:04):
And I'm like, what you mean Idon't need closure, I need to
just move on.
That that's no, I I no, and butokay, funny enough though, when
he said it to me, I did not sayyou're wrong.
I was like, Yeah, you're right,but I still need to just do this
(27:24):
for myself, and I need to justhave this conversation, and you
know, I I'm not going inexpecting anything and wanting
anything.
I you know, I just need to dothis for me.
I was just lying, lying throughlying through my teeth, talking
about I know it's not no, Ididn't.
I thought that I needed closure,I thought that I needed the
conversation, I wanted to havethe conversation and yeah, I
(27:52):
wanted to walk in there and getthe answers that I was desiring.
I was not at the time trying tobe no better, bigger person.
I wanted the answers that Iwanted.
And before I'm gonna talk aboutthat situation, but before I get
into that, I want to go back towhen I was younger, when I was
really in that idea that Ineeded closure and to show y'all
how I really chased it.
(28:12):
And so my papa passed away, andwell, let me go back.
My my papa passed away, right?
But before he passed away, hewas in the hospital for a fall.
He had failed.
And I'm gonna try to get throughthis without crying because it
still makes me emotional, whichis kind of my point about this
(28:35):
whole thing.
Um, but yeah, he was in thehospital for a fall.
We were expecting him, you know,not to be there long to come
out.
We had just seen him, my mom hadjust seen him, and we were on
our way home, we were stuck intraffic, and we get a phone call
that he fell into a coma, and wewere so confused because we were
like, we just seen him.
And I just will not forget thatmoment.
(28:57):
And we uh went back to thehospital, and sure enough, he
was like all plugged up on theon the machines, and they kept
him on those machines.
I don't remember exactly howlong, I don't know if it was a
week, but I know it was youknow, some some days trying to
see if he was gonna come out ofit.
And then I believe they weregiven the word that you know he
wasn't gonna get better.
Um, and so they decided thatthey were going to pull the
(29:18):
plug.
And so when I got the phone callthat that was gonna happen, I
was like, I have to be there.
I have to be at his bedsidebecause again, in my mind, I'm
like, I need this closure.
I can't go the rest of my lifewondering what happened, what
his last breath was like, and Ihad to be there.
And like my brother didn't wantto go because he didn't want to
see him like that.
My cousins, my older cousinsdidn't want to go because they
(29:40):
didn't want to see him likethat.
But for me, I was like, no, Ihave I cannot live the rest of
my life not being able to saygoodbye, not being able to do
this the way that I want to doit.
And if you hear that, you alsohear the controlling part of
getting closure, you know, thatit was about that closure that I
needed.
Um, that I I mean sorry, aboutthe control that I needed to be
able to control the narrativeand not let it control me.
(30:02):
I don't want grief to sneak upon me.
I don't want the anxiety tocome, although at this time I
don't have that language.
But you guys understand what I'msaying.
Like I knew that I didn't wantto go grieving for the rest of
my life, always wondering whatif, because I knew I was gonna
have to grieve, but I don't wantto have to add on the what ifs
and the pain of not knowing whathappened on top of that.
(30:23):
So um I I go to the hospital,and oh, I just remember that day
of standing next to a side, andso it was my my papa is on my
mom's side, so it's my mom'sdad, and but my grandma on my
dad's side was there because weall live in Seattle, you know,
all the church families kind ofget along, and my grandma's
really good.
My grandma, which is my mom'sdad, is really good at like
(30:46):
grief counseling and just beingthere when people pass away.
That is a gift she has.
I do not have that gift, I'mhorrible with grief, horrible
with comforting people whenthey're crying and sad.
It's not my strong area at all.
Um, but she was the one standingnext to me, and I do appreciate
her being there for me, youknow, being the youngest in that
in there at that time.
(31:06):
And I remember her saying, youknow, he can hear you, say what
you want to say to him.
And I, you know, told him Iloved him.
I, you know, obviously saidgoodbye, and we waited, and then
they finally decided to take himoff the machine.
And, you know, again, we wewaited and then he finally
passed away.
I did not leave his side untilthat body was completely out of
(31:30):
sight.
Like we got to sit with him fora little while and then they
covered him up and they walkedhim out.
That whole that's what I mean bystay by his side is that when
they were wheeling him out, whenhe goes around the corner, I was
there, I did not want anysurprises.
I did I wanted to see it all sothat I didn't have to wonder
what it was like down the roadto not have again, not have been
(31:52):
there.
I already said that, but like tonot have been there, I was just
so dead set on that um because Ithought that I needed it, but I
was saying for years that I gotclosure, but the pain never
changed.
My heart never healed.
(32:13):
I became very bitter towardspeople who were still here.
I know that's bad to say, but Ibecame so bitter thinking like,
okay, God, why you didn't takethem?
Why'd you have to take him?
So upset and frustrated at whyhe had to leave early um and so
(32:34):
unexpectedly, and at differentstages of my life, that has come
back to me.
When I graduated from highschool, I was so sad because my
papa was the most excited for megraduating from high school, and
we would talk about it when Iwould come in, and it was my
(32:56):
senior year, so it was he wasalways talking about you know
when I was gonna graduate, whatwas I gonna do, and all these
things.
And so we that was our littleconversation that we would have.
And when he passed away beforehe got to see me graduate, I
mean, heartbroken, likedevastated.
And another reason why I'm gonnago back to when I was at the
(33:17):
hospital, another reason why Iwanted to be there, I just
remember this.
Another reason why I wanted tobe there was because my papa was
a pastor, and I knew that whenwe got to the funeral, like I
knew everything after that, Iwasn't gonna have the same con
(33:37):
access to him.
When it was at the hospital, itwas only a few of us there, just
the immediate family and a fewextra people.
I really don't remembereverybody that was there, but
it's not, it wasn't a lot of us.
It's um, it was just a few of usthere.
And so you I had my intimatetime with him versus when we got
to the funeral, it was sopacked, and you know, um other
family flew in from out of townand other grandchildren came in,
(34:00):
and and you're you're you know,I don't have the same access to
him anymore.
And so I wanted that, right?
Um, but like I was saying, thosedifferent stages of my life, it
just hit me differently.
So when I graduated from highschool, when I got married and
he couldn't be there, a wholenew set of emotions.
And like it's not even a new setof emotions, emotions, it's the
fact that I didn't heal from thehurt in the first place.
(34:23):
I thought that getting theclosure, being there in the room
with him was gonna be enough tosatisfy that healing, to satisfy
my my grief, to not obviouslyget rid of it, but to temper it
so that it won't hurt as bad.
It won't be as bad.
But that, y'all, it didn't, itdidn't, it didn't take it away
because I never really dealtwith it.
(34:46):
I just let the emotions run me.
And when I got married, it cameback up when I had kids and I
would go back home and Icouldn't take my kids to see
him, knowing how much he wouldhave thought my kids were funny.
I really can't let myself go toofar down that rabbit hole
because I just cry every time.
(35:06):
When I oh sorry, I missedcollege.
When I went to college, when Igraduated from college, I just
skipped over whole life events.
When I was when I went tocollege, when I graduated
college, when I got married,when I had kids, there we go.
And even now, now that I'm kindof at a coasting time in life,
all of that stuff bundlestogether.
If I sit and I think about ittoo long, I look at the
(35:28):
trajectory and I'm like, dang,he missed it all.
One of the things that broke myheart the most too was that I
was so young when he passedaway, and I wasn't mature enough
to like have matureconversations, ask him
questions, get to know him.
And so one of the areas,honestly, I think the biggest
area that has broken my heartand been my biggest struggle is
not getting to appreciate him asan adult, not getting to
(35:52):
actually sit down, ask thequestions, get to know him for
him, get to know him not just asPapa, you know, but to get to
know him as, you know, Kelly.
Like that's that was his name,Kelly Easter.
It's like I didn't get thatchance.
And so again, I'm thinking I wasgonna be a little better because
(36:15):
I got the closure.
So that's where I was at when Iwas younger.
Now, when I was just tellingy'all that second situation
where I went into closureintentionally, knowing that I
wanted to get this closureconversation, I wanted to have
this last conversation.
Sorry, but I was saying I wastold closure's not bad.
I mean, sorry, let me get mystuff all mixed up.
(36:35):
Let me start that over fory'all.
The the first situation that Ihad talked about when I was
saying that, I was going intogetting closure intentionally,
but I paid more attention tothis time because it was the
first time that someone had toldme that I didn't need closure.
And so that time I was olderagain, I was late 20s, and it
(36:58):
was an old friend.
We'd had this situation happen,a little falling out, whatever.
And some some time had gone by,maybe like a year or so.
And while we were cordial, Ijust I could not stop obsessing
over the situation.
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit, I couldn't stop feeling some
type of way.
I was really heartbroken becauseI'm like, I really opened up to
you.
I thought we were reallyfriends, like this is crazy.
(37:19):
And a part of me still wanted tobe her friend, even though, like
I said, I lied and was like,nah, I'm not going in it to get
the closure.
I'm just going in for me.
And no, I don't want to be yourfriend again.
But deep down, I definitelythink I wanted to be her friend,
but I knew that was unlikely tohappen.
Um, I was like, oh, I know she'snot gonna give me the answers
that I want to get, but I stillwant to have the conversation.
No, I wanted the answers.
(37:40):
I, you know, again, I'm justlike, I'm struggling in between
those two worlds because I'veobviously by that time seen that
in certain situations, closuredoesn't matter.
I didn't necessarily go back toX's and try to get closure.
Certain people, when you'redone, you're done.
But in other instances, when Icould get closure, I'm thinking
I still need this.
I need this to close that loop,I need this to complete the
story to get the answers that Ineed.
(38:02):
So when I arranged for thiswhole sit-down, or whatever, I
reached out, you know, thinkingI'm being the bigger person
because she ain't never gonna doit.
So let's sit down, whatever,whatever.
You know, she agreed.
I was kind of surprised by that.
But it was like, okay, you'retrying to say phase two.
We sit down.
And then as we're having thisconversation and I'm starting it
off and I'm saying what I needto say, and she starts
responding.
I start realizing she's noteven, she's not gonna be for
(38:24):
coming.
She's not gonna say what shereally says, what she really
thinks.
We're not gonna get to thebottom of this.
In fact, we would need likethree more conversations and
maybe a mediator.
Not that it wasn't, it wasn'ttension, it wasn't like an
argument or anything like that.
It's just that she was not readyto be open and honest about the
things that was happeningbecause she hadn't really dealt
(38:45):
with them within herself.
And and much, and same for me.
Same for me.
I didn't deal with everythingeither.
So I that's why I also kind oflet her get away with a lot of
stuff because I didn't even cometo the table with the right
posture either.
And so when I realized that,right, and I got up from that
(39:08):
table and I walked away, thatconversation didn't change
anything.
I that's when I seen that I waslike, oh my gosh, girl, this
don't work because I was stillthinking about the situation, I
still kept looping everythingthat was happening.
In fact, now I'm looping thesituation and I'm looping the
closure conversation because I'mlike, now what she said in this
(39:31):
closure conversation, don't addup to what happened.
She's saying she, you know, I'mkind of making this up because I
don't remember it all, but it'slike she's saying, you know, she
didn't XYZ, but I'm like, Iremember ABC.
Like, this ain't really so nowI'm just in a I'm in an even
bigger cycle than I was inbefore I walked in those doors.
(39:51):
Now I'm really trying to figureout what the heck is going on
and why can I get over this?
And then I was like over time,you know, as I just kept um
dealing with that, right?
And those feelings.
This isn't all like one day,night and day, one week, one
month.
I don't want to make it seemlike it was like snip, snap,
(40:12):
snop, snap.
It wasn't like that.
Um, but the most important partfor me then became healing on my
own for my own reasons, withoutgetting the answers, without
getting explanations, andwithout closure.
And I thank the Lord that I gotthat experience because after
(40:34):
that I had to deal with closerrelationships to me, where I had
to acknowledge that I wouldnever get closure.
I would never get the answers.
Having that moment of reflectingon my grandfather's passing,
sitting down with you know theold friend, and realizing how
much how much my husband, whowas the person who told me I
(40:55):
didn't need closure, was right.
Where you have to take back thatpower and realize like I will
not get the answers that theanswers that you've been waiting
for are never coming, and it'sone of the hardest, most
(41:18):
gut-wrenching moments of growth.
But this isn't just about notgetting closure, right?
Because we've addressed that.
We're like, okay, we knowclosure is a lie, our culture's
starting to see it.
I'm sure some of you are like,yeah, girl, I'm already there
with you.
I already knew that closure wasa boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
But what do we do when we don'tget closure?
(41:41):
And like I like I said, thisisn't just about not getting
closure, it's about knowing thatyou have no choice but to move
forward without it.
Like, what do you do when youcan't get the closure because
maybe they passed away and theapology you wanted is now
impossible?
Maybe they don't care enough toexplain, and you know that that
(42:05):
realization is so brutal.
Maybe they they they gaslightedyou so much that even if they
did explain, you'd never be ableto trust their words.
Maybe the damage was so deepthat no words could ever fix it
anyway.
And when we realize the answersare never coming, then our mind
starts to go into overdrive.
And this is why I wanted to talkabout this, is because okay, for
(42:28):
some of us who have said, Ialready know closure's a lie,
like me, I already knowclosure's a lie.
It's a myth.
I don't need it.
What are you then replacingwith?
Because you can't just push itto the side.
What are you actually doing toheal?
If you know that you need cert,that your brain craves
certainty, that there are loopsthat need to be closed, that you
that you know that something hasto have, it has to feel as if it
(42:49):
has some sort of finish, whichis so hard for us, right?
Like if you know all that andyou don't get that closure
conversation, you don't get yourlast word, then then what
happens is if we don't replaceit with anything, we still keep
ourselves in a cycle, in a loop.
And so then our minds startsaying stuff like, Well, maybe
if I had said somethingdifferent or did something
differently, or maybe they feelguilty and they just don't know
(43:12):
how to reach out, or I I've beentold this, you gotta be the
bigger person.
You need to have thisconversation, you gotta, and
it's no, no, no.
Um, maybe they were capable ofgiving you the truth, especially
for people who have already goneafter these conversations and
these moments, and you walk awayfrom it feeling no different
(43:32):
than when you sat down, and thenyour mind is just soaring
through what they said, what yousaid, that they really weren't
forthcoming.
Um, well, if that's the case,then why this?
Or feeling like they're lying,but not having enough to be able
to call them out.
So you just gotta walk away withtheir word, but it's still not
sitting right with you.
Maybe the real closure issomething that you have to
(43:54):
create for yourself, somethingthat I have to create for
myself.
And that last thought, that'sThe turning point.
See, the truth I discovered isthat closure isn't a requirement
for healing.
It's a choice.
A choice to honor your painwithout being defined by someone
else's response or lack thereof.
(44:16):
Healing is your responsibility.
It's our responsibility.
It's an individualresponsibility.
It's your journey and yourfreedom.
You have to stop handing thatpower over to other people.
We don't always want to hearthat closure is not what heals
you.
That's hard to hear.
(44:38):
But true growth, what reallybegins to heal you is when you
start to process the emotions,not when you get the right
conversation.
It's acknowledging your pain,your disappointment, your anger,
and deciding that they no longercontrol your story.
And remember, in um BrokenBodies uh roots, sorry, in the
(45:01):
roots episode, we already talkedabout emotions.
We talked about how thoseemotions affect us.
And you have to remember thatour emotions are good things,
they're signals.
But when we suppress them, whenwe push them down, that's when
it becomes bad for us.
That's when we stay in thiscycle and in this loop.
We have to start facing whateverit is.
(45:22):
We have to start dealing withour emotions and keeping reason
and keeping that balance becauseonce you have that, the
emotions, the signals thathappen to us that were created
and put in us so that we can beaware of what's happening around
us and within us, they are thereto help guide us.
They are there to help say, heyBritney.
I don't know if Britney'slistening.
(45:43):
I'm just made.
I don't know why I'm alwayssaying Britney, anyways.
Hey Brittany, you're you'restill hurt.
Hey Tony, you're still angry atyour dad.
Hey Lucas, you're stilldisappointed that your mom
didn't show up for you in thethird grade.
Hey Ashley, you're still holdingon to the pain of your father
(46:07):
leaving you.
You've been waiting to have aconversation, to tell him off,
to tell him how you really feel,to hear why he left you, to hear
why he did what he did.
You have not let yourselfprocess those emotions.
You have not been acknowledgedeven that you still hurt.
You trying to put the put thearmor and not the armor of God.
(46:28):
You're trying to put the armoron and keep the walls up and try
to act like you're so tough andso bad, and I don't need nobody,
and I don't need him, and Idon't need them.
When deep down you you you wantpeople, you want your dad.
You miss and and long for andare hurt by the fact that you
(46:49):
don't have that relationship.
A lot of our triggers come fromwhen we see something, when we
experience someone, something,sorry.
This is about facing the truththat some questions will never
get answered, and realizing thatyou can still be okay anyway.
(47:14):
Healing isn't transactional.
Someone doesn't pay you or giveyou something so that you can
finally heal.
Forgiveness isn't a trade-off,it's not something you give only
if someone says or does theright things.
Forgiveness is a choice you makefor yourself, not because the
(47:36):
other person deserves it, butbecause you need peace.
Some people think they needclosure, but what they actually
need is clarity.
And there's a difference betweenclosure and clarity.
Closure feels like peace givento you by someone else, but it
keeps you dependent.
(47:56):
It says, I can't move on untilthey explain themselves or they
validate my pain or I get mylast word.
Um, and then clarity, on theother hand, is internal.
It's realizing that you alreadyhave the truth, but it's a truth
you might not be ready to acceptyet.
It's recognizing your power tosee reality clearly without
needing anyone else'sconfirmation.
(48:19):
Some of us have the truth, theclarity that we need.
But if you don't take time tofigure out what that clarity is,
you'll keep yourself dependenton this idea of closure, waiting
for explanations and answersthat won't come, and even when
they come will still beunsatisfying.
(48:41):
Instead of again going afterthat clarity, being clear in the
mind, having the understandingand the information that you
need.
You now listen, the clarity maynot be about the person.
You may not get the answersabout the person and why they
did and who they are and theirmakeup, but you can get clarity
about the situation, you can getclarity about yourself, you can
(49:02):
get clarity on the fact that I'mgoing to have to move on without
what I need, and that is okay.
Clarity that you know what, justbecause they left me doesn't
mean I'm a bad person.
Clarity that, you know what,that situation, it hurt me.
We both said our things and didour things.
(49:23):
I'm not innocent, they're notinnocent, but I've owned up to
what I've done, and maybe theyhave, maybe they haven't, but I
know my part like like you needclarity, not closure.
You don't need permission toheal, you don't need an
explanation to accept realityand that peace that you're
craving, it doesn't live insomeone else's words.
It lives in your ability to facewhat you already know.
(49:46):
And I want y'all to hear me,hear, hear my heart.
This is not about shaming youfor needing answers.
It's about empowering you totake charge of your healing,
your growth, your life.
This podcast, I'll be tellingy'all over and over again, I'm
not here to make y'all try to bedependent on me.
I want you all to realize and tobe empowered and stand strong in
(50:10):
the fact that you, my friend,were created for hard things.
You are resilient.
You are strong.
When you think about just theway our bodies are made up, our
minds are made up, and then whenyou dig down and realize how
your soul is intricate and sovaluable, baby, like you gotta
stand up on your own two feet,hold your head up high, and
(50:30):
realize that you have the powerto take the reins of control
back of your life.
It's about deciding that yourgrowth matters more than their
explanation.
It's deciding that your souldeserves peace, whether they
have ever, whether they willever acknowledge their role in
your plane, in your pain, excuseme.
(50:52):
You don't need closure, you needconviction, you don't need
permission, you needperspective.
Most of us already have theanswers.
We're just waiting for someoneelse to say them out loud, but
that's not going to happen.
And then what do you do?
And that's what this is about.
(51:13):
And then what do you do?
And that's not something I cananswer for you.
You have to answer that foryourself.
I want to close with saying thatclosure can work, and that's
okay.
Closure is a very naturalinstinct, it's not a flaw.
It's our mind's way of seekingresolution, it's the heart's way
(51:35):
of finding rest.
We are wired to look formeaning, to want things to make
sense, to crave a final chapterthat ties everything together.
And when something painful endsabruptly, whether it's a
relationship or friendship, orjust a chapter in life that we
weren't ready to close, as Imentioned earlier, like even
with my job, it's normal to wantanswers.
(51:56):
It's normal to wantacknowledgement.
I almost took myself back down adangerous, slopey field when I
started to let my mind go intowhy and why are they ripping the
crop around money with this job?
What am I gonna do now?
What am I?
And then it was like, hold up.
You better remember who you are.
And you know what I told myself,y'all?
(52:17):
I said, I came into this job asAlexandria.
How I got this job was becauseof me.
How I moved up in this job wasbecause of me.
Me losing the job is not melosing myself.
Everything that I brought in, Itake out with me.
Everything that I became,everything that I worked on, all
the skills that I have, all ofthat is still mine.
(52:38):
They didn't take anything awayfrom me except for again a job,
maybe some paycheck, maybe somebenefits.
But those are not things that Idon't know why I said that so
country.
Those are not things that Icannot get again because I am
still me.
In fact, that job was probablyholding me back.
They were probably holding meback, y'all.
And I had to snip, snap, snip,snap.
(53:02):
But okay, back to what I wassaying is that um it's normal to
want closure, it's normal towant answers, it's normal to
want acknowledgement.
And I want y'all to hear me thatseeking closure does not make
you weak.
It doesn't mean you're stuck, itmeans you're human, it means you
care.
(53:23):
And in some clo in some cases,um closure can be healthy, it
can be transformative, but it'simportant to recognize when
closure is possible andproductive versus when it's only
keeping you tangled in the cycleof waiting, hoping, and reliving
old pain.
Closure is valuable, but it'snot required for healing.
(53:47):
And the difference between thosetwo realities is where the real
growth begins.
And some of you have beenwaiting, you've been spinning,
you've been replaying, you'vebeen holding on to the idea that
if you could just get one moreconversation, one more
explanation, one more apology,then you'd finally be free.
(54:10):
But what if that moment nevercomes?
What if the words you're waitingfor are words they're never
going to say?
What if the clarity you thinkyou need is something you
already have?
The truth is closure is a lie.
It keeps you waiting forsomething outside of yourself.
When real healing, that's aninside job.
(54:30):
That happens within.
Closure makes you believe thatyour peace is in someone else's
hands.
But listen, your healing is noton them.
Your freedom is not tied totheir words, your future is not
waiting on an explanation.
The only thing keeping you stuckis the belief that you need
(54:51):
permission to move forward.
If closure isn't coming, whatare you going to do?
Stay stuck in the loop?
Are you gonna keep hoping foranswers that may never come or
are you gonna do somethingdifferent?
Because here's the truth (55:05):
you don't need them to free you.
You don't need the words, youdon't need the closure, you need
a decision, and that decision isyours to make.
And even when you get thosemoments where you get the
closure, you sit down and havethe conversation, or you know,
closure.
I say that in air quotes.
When you sit down and you havethe conversation, you're able to
(55:28):
explain yourself, they're ableto explain themselves.
Knowing this, knowing thatclosure is not something that
you need in order to heal,allows you to walk into that
conversation differently.
You walk into that conversationwith different questions because
your expectation is not, oh, Ineed this answer in order to
heal.
You walk into that conversationwith a different type of speech
(55:50):
prepared because you know what,you know that you know what, me
trying to get my last word, mylast lick back is not gonna
actually help me heal.
We've we've conditionedourselves to think that, man, if
I get to say what I want to say,if I get to do what I want to
do, then all will be well andit'll be gone.
But as we've talked about inthis episode, as we've talked
about in the revenge episode,you don't walk away feeling any
(56:14):
better.
But here's the thing, y'all.
Most of you already know thetruth.
You already have the answers,you already know what it is, and
we're just waiting for someoneelse to say it out loud.
But why don't you say it toyourself right now, and then I
(56:39):
want you to go live like someonewho's finally done waiting.
I want you to go flourish andgrow and heal and blossom and
cherish the life that you'vebeen giving, knowing that you
don't have to wait, you don'thave to rely, and you don't have
to depend on someone else'swords or lack thereof in order
(57:03):
for you to move on.
I hope this helped.
I hope this, I was trying tosay, I hope this pod I was
trying to say, I hope thisepisode helped.
I hope that you enjoyed thisconversation.
And as always, I'm lookingforward to hearing your
(57:24):
thoughts.
Please share them with me.
Please connect with me onInstagram and go to
renovatingtheSoul.com, sign upfor the email list.
I want to hear where you guysare at.
I want to hear your closurestories.
I want to hear, please tell mewhen closure has worked for you.
Because there's definitely timeswhere I've gotten the answers
that I needed, and okay, cool.
(57:46):
Then there's those times when Igot the thought I thought that I
got the answers right.
And as I said in the beginning,I got some answers, and then I
didn't, I didn't like theanswers, and I made up something
else because I just wanted Ineeded an answer, and it wasn't
good enough.
So I want to hear all yourstories good, bad, in the
middle, whatever it is.
I love y'all so much.
(58:07):
I thank y'all so much forlistening.
I appreciate y'all from thebottom of my heart for being
here.
And until next time, let's keepdoing the work to renovate our
souls and let's keep building afoundation for who we are meant
to be.
I used to think I needed closure.
Like truly believed that if Ihad just one more conversation,
one more explanation, one moremoment to say my peace, then I'd
finally be able to move on.
But let me tell you what reallyhappened.
I chased closure like it was themissing key to my peace.
(00:22):
I sat through conversations thatdrained me, hoping for an answer
that would make it all makesense.
I got apologies that didn't healme.
Explanations that only gave memore questions, and silence that
left me spinning.
And after all that, I still feltstuck.
I still replayed the moments.
(00:43):
I still wondered what I couldhave said or what I should have
said.
And that's when it hit me.
Closure isn't something someoneelse gives you, it's something
you decide for yourself.
And if you're waiting forsomeone else to give you peace,
you'll be waiting forever.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
(01:05):
something meaningful.
Welcome back, y'all, to anotherepisode.
I am your host, AlexandriaRobinson, and I am really happy
that you have joined me foranother episode.
If this is your first time here,welcome.
Thank you for taking time out ofyour busy schedule and your busy
(01:26):
life to join me.
And if you are returning, thankyou for coming back.
Thank you for listening toanother episode.
We've had a really good seasonor you know, continuation of
episodes so far.
And I cannot be more happy aboutjust the hours of work and
content that I put out there sofar.
(01:47):
And I really hope and pray thatyou guys are enjoying it as much
as I have and did, you know,recording and researching and
being able to package everythingfor you guys.
One of the things that I don'tdo enough that I see from other
podcasts is I don't feel like Iincorporate myself enough.
And I know it's important foryou all to know me as the what
(02:09):
am I called?
A podcasteer, the host.
Okay, the host.
There we go.
Um, for you all to know me as ahost, to like know that I'm
human, know that I'm, you know,what's going on and what's not.
And I I just don't do well withlike life updates because in my
mind, I'm like, who cares?
Like they don't want to hearabout me.
Um, but but I I notice when Iwatch other people's podcasts
(02:31):
and I hear like what they'redoing, what they're working on,
and you know, podcasts that Ilisten to often, it doesn't
bother me to hear about them,right?
It's different if somebody'slike, you know, humble bragging
or doing, you know, you you knowwhat I mean, like doing
something else.
But um, I I love to hear whatpeople are working on and doing.
So I was like, you know, I needto incorporate some more life
updates, especially, you know,coming with all this, you know,
(02:54):
heavier content and stuff.
I'm like, let me break it upwith some of what's just
happening, right?
Um, lots are happening over herein the Robinson household.
And right now we're reallynavigating, trying to figure out
the direction that we go in asindividuals when it comes to my
(03:16):
husband and myself and ourcareers and opportunities that
we have.
We're trying to navigate, youknow, the options that we have,
and then we're trying to look atus as a family unit and figure
out where do we move our family,what direction is our family
going in.
And so it's not about like it'snot questioning in a way of we
we're lost that we don't know.
(03:37):
It's questioning in the way ofthere's like multiple paths that
we can take.
You know, you're standing atthat road with four different
roads, and you're like, okay, Idon't know which one do we go?
This one, do we go that one?
Do we go this one?
Do we go that one?
And that's where we're at,right?
And so, um, yeah, we're we'retrying to figure it out.
We are young in the grand schemeof things.
I know they were trying to say30 is old, but like we're 33,
(03:59):
trying to seemingly create alife that we've not personally
experienced firsthand, and thatcan be very difficult.
That's everything from our ourmarriage being you know healthy
to our children being raisedright to our household to to our
eating.
So we are on this eliminationdiet, and we are learning to
(04:22):
we're learning what we need toeliminate and take out of our
diet.
We we're doing that because weand I should say my husband
found out some information aboutjust how much the food we're
eating is causing theinflammation in our body and our
sickness, and actually it kindof it goes back into um what's
the episode child?
(04:44):
Um it goes back into the episodebroken souls, broken bodies,
right?
And how I was talking about, youknow, oftentimes what's
happening in your soul is whatis affecting your body.
But there is a very real thingthat we have to acknowledge is
that our our our health isreally important.
Our health is essential, right?
(05:05):
Walking, what we're eating, whatwe're what we're putting in our
body, right?
Um, which is the same thing aswhat we're eating, but I'm I
kind of meant like consuming toomedications, vitamins, things
like that.
And so we're now on thisjourney, even though we're young
and we don't have any, you know,major health issues.
We really wanted to start ourfamily early on, eliminating
(05:27):
added sugars, eliminatingcertain oils, vegetable oils,
palm oils, and and and hearinghow these industries are huge
moneymakers, and hearing howpeople are going in for real
things, but only gettingprescribed medicine when it's
just their eating habits.
And and I'm gonna be honest withy'all, it's not easy, like
(05:50):
having to take out the thingsthat you've been eating for 30
years.
Oh, yeah, like y'all, I promiseyou sometimes I feel like a
twitch is coming, but I'm also alittle dramatic, so but yeah, so
we've been on that, we've beenon our health journey, we've
been trying to figure out, likeI said, our paths, our careers.
Um, we homeschool our children,so my oldest is in first grade,
(06:13):
and he's doing really well withhomeschool.
And then my second, he'll bestarting kindergarten um towards
the you know, new in the newschool year, so August,
September.
And we're we're a young familyreally trying to just navigate
the world, trying to figure outwhat our next steps are, where
we go, how we give our childrenwhat we didn't have, but also
(06:35):
keep them humble and respectfuland hardworking.
You know, we don't want kidsthat always got their hand out,
right?
We want kids that know theygotta work for what they get.
So, yeah, that's just like a fewlife updates.
Also, I didn't I didn't knowthat I was gonna put this in
here, but you know, I might aswell might as well tell y'all.
(06:56):
Like, I so I've shared beforethat I work for the federal
government and I was actually apart of the mass, you know, deep
downsizing of the government,and so I was able to take their
little offer instead of themlike pushing me out, which I'm
I'm grateful that I did thatoption, but that was really
(07:16):
hard.
And it was it was so hard to inthe beginning having to make
such a quick decision, finallyfinding a place that I saw
myself out for 10 years or ormore, finally finding like a
career where in a place where Icould go in many directions, it
(07:36):
was very comfortable, itprovided so much stability for
my family, and to have it justkind of like taken away um was
heartbreaking.
And while I don't be honest, Idon't disagree with the things
that they were saying, andthat's something that I've been
transparent about with anybodythat I've talked to about this.
I don't disagree with the thingsthat they were saying.
(07:58):
I've was I've worked for bothprivate sector and I've worked
for the public sector, and thereare strong differences, and
there are a lot of things in thepublic sector that people get
away with that they couldn't getaway with in the private sector,
right?
Pros and cons for sure.
But it still didn't feel good,it still was very hard to wrap
my mind around that my careerwas over, um, and probably won't
(08:20):
have much to go back to if thatwas an option.
But let me tell you guys, likethat was probably one of the
biggest blessings in disguise.
I did not want to see it thatway, but it has opened up so
many doors and opportunities forme personally that I think are
gonna pay off in the long run.
And because they let me go, Iwas like, I'm not going back to
(08:42):
another job where I gotta workmy way from the bottom to the
top, where I gotta deal with allthese personalities.
Like, I cannot wrap my mindaround having to crawl up that
ladder again.
And so I made a differentdecision when I'm not quite
ready to share yet, but Ipromise when the time is right,
I will share.
Um, but I I made a differentdecision and I talked to my
(09:04):
husband about it, and I wassuper scared, but I feel more
sure about the direction thatI'm going in and um thankful,
honestly, like overwhelminglygrateful because I am that
person that gets what that getscomfortable.
I would have stayed there, Iwould have not gone anywhere and
(09:25):
just been chilling.
I would have just I would havebeen chilling for the next 10
years doing my stuff still onthe side.
But God was like, nope, nope.
Looking at it, I'm like, oh, youreally gotta push us.
You will he he knew it wasn't noleaving my job if I didn't get
(09:48):
pushed because I wascomfortable, it was stable, it
was great for my children.
I'll put up with it, you know.
Um, after but I was so mad,y'all, because after all them
years of going through managerafter manager, and then I
finally got a manager that I gotalong with well that I really
enjoy working with.
And I'm like, are you serious?
I had to spend all that timeunder them other folks.
(10:08):
But anyways, so I digress.
I just wanted to give a coupleof life updates, just have like
a really casual conversation,break up some of this, you know,
heavier content, like I said.
But, you know, that's enough, Ithink.
I think you guys got enough.
Always feel free to follow me onsocial media.
Um, I'll probably I'll talkabout that at some point, but I
haven't been as active justbecause social media has just
(10:29):
become so toxic.
Um, but sign up for the emaillist, that's a good way to
connect with me.
Send me emails, you know, likefeel free to contact me off of
this if you ever want to know.
But I'll keep sharing, you know,some life updates just so you
all know, like, I'm a very realperson.
I'm not just spewing out contentthat I'm not trying to live
through or haven't livedthrough, or I'm not just sitting
(10:52):
up here like in a in a glasshouse as if everything's so
perfect.
I don't know.
Does the glass house perfect?
That's a good question.
unknown (10:59):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Anyways, I'm I'm just not, you know, I just want
you all to know, like, I'mhuman.
I'm working through things.
We have so many things going onin our family and in our
household as I am recording thispodcast.
When I'm not doing this podcast,I'm doing something, you know,
especially on this diet.
I gotta cook all the time nowbecause when you start reading
labels in the store, you realizeyou can't have Jack Diddly
(11:22):
Squat.
So, anyways, lots of lifethings.
I'm I'm really happy that I'mable to give you guys this
update and that it was um youknow on my heart to do that.
So let's jump into today'sepisode.
I think it's gonna be a reallygood one.
As you all heard in the intro,we're gonna be talking about
(11:44):
closure.
And as you also heard, I am thatgirl who chased closure.
And so in this episode, we'regonna be talking about why we
chase closure.
Um, we're gonna talk about howclosure doesn't equal relief.
I want to share more about mystruggle and my experience with
closure, and then I want to talkabout what happens when we never
(12:07):
get those answers that we want.
So let's go ahead and dive rightin.
Why we chase closure.
In order to really unpack thatquestion and understand, we
gotta we gotta nerd out a littlebit, okay?
Um, our the brain, it cravescertainty.
(12:27):
We want answers to make sense ofwhy something ended.
We want validation to confirmthat our pain was real, we want
resolution to tie up loose endsand move forward.
We crave certainty.
And there was um a study donecalled the caught and from that
study produced the cognitiveclosure theory.
(12:49):
And this study found that humanshave a strong psychological need
to avoid ambiguity.
And when they have experiencesthat feel unresolved, our brains
perceive uncertainty as athreat.
And so it causes us to becomeanxious and distressed.
And so this need is so strongthat we often prioritize any
(13:10):
explanation over the rightexplanation.
Research shows that people wouldrather have an incomplete or
incorrect answer than remainuncertain.
And that's me.
That's your girl.
I've done that to myself plentyof times.
But I want to take us becausewhen I was doing this, I knew I
(13:33):
wanted to do this episode, andI'm gonna tell more about my
struggle with this episode injust a few moments.
But I knew I was coming underthis episode, but I got so
curious about okay, where didthis idea of closure come from?
And so that's what I want totalk about y'all, like the
origins of closure.
So in the early 20th century,um, there were different
theories that were introduced,and one of them was the gestalt
(13:56):
psychology.
Hopefully, I'm saying thatcorrectly.
Um, but it focused on how thebrain seeks patterns and
completion.
And then from that, there wasthis principle that came, and
from that principle, itsuggested that our brains hold
on to unfinished tasks orunresolved situations more
intensely than completed ones.
So that's the early 20thcentury, right?
(14:17):
They have these studies, it'sstarting to, they're starting to
understand how our brainsfunction.
We don't like uncertainty.
As I've already said, we werelooking for patterns, we're
looking for completion.
So then later in the 1950s andin the 1960s, psychologists who
started studying grief andtrauma started using the word
closure.
So we have to pause for a minuteand acknowledge that the 1950s
(14:41):
and 1960s coming up with a newword and a new idea is kind of
crazy.
It's kind of crazy because wehave been existing for so long.
And when you look at the ancientphilosophers and when you look
at ancient wisdom from, I mean,all over, right?
From from Asia, from theAmericas, from Mexico, like
(15:03):
wherever you're looking at theseare South America, like where
like wherever you're findingthese ideas from from people
that have been here since theearly days, beginning days, and
we see those patterns continueon, it makes more sense to let
me how can I say this?
Like, it helps us to connect thedots better because we can see
(15:23):
that when we're establishingsomething about humans, it's
something that has existed sincethe beginning of time or since
our early days.
And I hope that's making sense.
When you have somethingintroduced to you as late as the
1950s and the 1960s, you mightsuggest that there's a flaw.
(15:45):
It honestly might suggest that,especially because we know now
that in that time and even now,child, the the studies that have
come out from a lot ofpsychologists are being forged,
they're being forced upon us,their data is heavily skewed and
(16:06):
not accurate, not interpretedcorrectly.
Um, and so when I when I readthat, that the word closure
didn't come until the 1950s and60s, I was like, okay, starting
to make sense now.
Um, and then in that time,that's when they started to see
and say that closure was thefinal step of the grieving
(16:27):
process.
Their intention was to helppeople move forward after loss,
betrayal, or heartbreak.
And I'm not mad at them forthat.
I get why a therapist orsomebody trying to help people
through um certain situations,they're also craving an answer
for people who seem hurt andlost and broken and confused.
(16:49):
And so their answer to that wasoh, you gotta close the loop.
You have to establish what iswhat has happened.
You have to give your brain thecertainty, the completion, the
ending of that circle.
You have to give it that inorder for you to move on.
And so they took the studies andthe theories and what we knew
(17:10):
and they added something thatmade sense.
Oh, we clearly have to close thedoor, close your like we had
now.
I'm not saying that that's whythey came up with it.
That was that was your girl.
But um, no, we but we have to uhwe have to we have to close this
chapter, we have to close thisdoor.
I mean, we've all heard thosethings, so it makes sense.
I'm not mad at them, right?
(17:30):
But from that, right, as we moveon, from that 1950s, 1960s, they
start using that word, theyintroduce that word closure,
starts going around, then therebecomes the the cultural
obsession.
And in our modern times, theconcept of closure exploded.
Movies and TV, they'reconstantly indoctrinating us
(17:52):
with this idea of gettingclosure or needing closure,
especially when it comes torelationships.
But we've seen the turn becomewith friendships, and and when I
say relationships, I meanromantic relationships, and now
we've seen the turn to befriendships and in parent
relationships and you know,teach whatever it is, right?
Like, but how many movies or orshows have you seen?
(18:14):
And I would say maybeparticularly movies, but we see
it in all in all music too,okay?
Music too, poetry, whatever itis.
We're we were indoctrinated withthis need and this idea of
getting closure.
And what I was saying was, howmany movies have you seen where
the whole movie they're tryingto get closure?
And the whole movie is about theidea that this person is not
(18:34):
going to be able to move onuntil they get the closure.
And then therapy and poppsychology, um, through those
means, self-help content pushthe idea that healing wasn't
possible until closure wasachieved.
That industry of therapy and allthe self-help books and all the,
(18:58):
I mean, they're like, No, youcan't heal until you get that
closure, until you get thatconversation, until you get
those answers.
So we have the true crime andthe justice systems.
Families of victims, they'reoften told that they need
closure through a conviction orconfession, even though that
doesn't undo the pain.
And so from the introduction ofclosure, then we we've seen
(19:22):
that, you know, become morepopular and just explode through
again our cultural obsession.
I think it probably felt to manylike, yes, that's what I've been
missing, that's what I need.
And in this past like 15 to 20years, we've started to see this
shift away from this idea.
We we have started to see thatpeople are changing how we talk
(19:46):
about healing, how we talk abouttrauma, even the conversations
that we have in therapy, becausepeople started realizing that
healing is internal, notexternal.
That closure became an excusefor avoidance.
People would delay, as I've asI've admitted to, delay their
healing, waiting for an ex toexplain why they left or a
(20:09):
former friend to admit what theydid.
Closure became a way for peopleto hold on and not let go.
And the irony is when we'reseeking closure, it often keeps
us tied to what hurt us.
It's just another conversation,another reason to reach out,
(20:30):
another way to stay attachedinstead of truly moving on.
I don't know if you said this, Iknow I have.
I can't move on until I can'tlet go until I need answers.
And as much as I believe and amoff social media because, or not
(20:51):
off, but you know, like I said,not participating in social
media as much because it's justso toxic.
Um, social media did help inthis shift that more people
started sharing their real lifestories of getting closure,
going after closure, andrealizing that it changed
nothing.
And that caused people to watchthese videos and reels and
TikToks and whatever and connectwith that YouTube videos,
(21:13):
writing stories and hear theirstories and connect and say,
Yeah, same thing happened to meand same thing here.
And um, in the first season, inthe episode on grieving
relationships, I believe, Ishared an article about the
therapist who told her patientthat he was still waiting for an
(21:34):
apology from his dad, somethingthat he was never gonna get, and
that in order to heal, he had tolearn how to heal and move on
without it.
So we have definitely seen thisshift, shifting away from
closure.
And I and I love that.
But we can't act as if closureis still not being pushed
because it is.
It's an easy storyline, okay?
It's really good forentertainment, it's like, you
(21:56):
know, giving us this alternativereality.
Because we don't always want towatch a show or a TV that
reflects real life.
We want people to get theirmoment, to get their last word,
to get their, you know, whateverit is.
You know, we talked about thatin the revenge episode in season
one, right?
You got to get your link back.
Like we we we want to see thathappen.
And so closure is still beingpushed.
(22:18):
It's still giving people falsehope, you know, you know, again.
And it keeps people consuming,honestly.
It keeps people consuming thebooks, the therapy, the
self-help content, that promiseof closure, it keeps people
hooked on seeking answersinstead of deciding to heal.
(22:39):
So even though it's gettingbetter, it's not all gone.
Our entire mindset and languagehas not shifted.
And people, they pursue closurebecause they believe it will
provide relief from emotionalpain or confusion or grief.
And studies on relationshipendings and grief, they show
(23:00):
that receiving answers oftendoesn't significantly reduce
emotional distress.
In fact, it can trigger morequestions and dissatisfaction.
Because the reality that we aretrying to face here is that
closure doesn't equal relief andthat closure is a lie.
You don't need it to getanswers, and you don't need it
for your healing.
And according to psychologistNancy Burns, she has a book
called Closure (23:22):
The Rush to End Grief and What It Cost Us.
And in full transparency, I havenot read this book in its
entirety.
I'm trying to get my hands onit.
But in the book, what she talksabout is how closure is a myth
that society created.
And how often seeking closureonly prolongs pain and prevents
genuine healing.
As I I seemingly just mentioned,that when you're trying to go
(23:45):
and get the answers, it doesn'treduce your emotional distress.
It triggers even more within youbecause you hear them say
something, and then you'rewondering, well, how the heck
did you get to there?
Now you just spoon feeding mesome BS and we need to sift
through this.
And yeah, I struggled with doingthis episode.
(24:10):
And I was really surprised aboutthat.
I it was harder than I thoughtit was gonna be.
Because I I I knew this.
Like I I felt comfortabletalking about this because I'm
like, yeah, I realize closure isa myth, closure is a lie.
Like, yeah, I know, you know, Ican't be clo um chasing after
closure.
But when I was trying to finishthis episode, I had so much
(24:33):
apprehension, so much um Istarted procrastinating, and I
just couldn't figure out likewhy am I struggling so bad with
approaching this conversation?
And then that's when I had toadmit out loud.
I said that the reason that I'mstruggling with this episode is
because I am that girl whobelieved and said out loud that
(24:56):
I needed closure.
And I wish I could let y'allinto my brain just so y'all can
see.
There was no tug of war in mymind growing up and all the way
into young adulthood, you know,mid-20s, late 20s.
There was no tug of war where Iwas like, maybe closure is bad,
(25:18):
maybe closure is not.
No, I lived my life thinking Ihave to get closure every chance
I can get.
I have to have thatconversation, I have to say what
I need to say, I have to do whatI need to do.
Um, it just wasn't somethingthat I wavered in between.
I thought that I had to getclosure no matter what.
And when I didn't get it, itkept me in a loop, in a cycle
(25:40):
where I was constantly thinkingabout the situation or the
person, and then thinking, okay,maybe one day they'll come back
around and I'll get my closure.
Someone just pushed that off tothe side.
I'm not really gonna deal withit.
And so I live my life thinkingthat or yeah, believing or
thinking that the reason why Iwas struggling with, you know,
like I said, the cycle ofthoughts or thinking about that
(26:01):
person, that situation, why Icouldn't let it go, why I was
having dreams, why it'sconstantly on my mind, why I go
to sleep thinking about it, wakeup, wake up thinking about it.
I conditioned myself to believethat it was because I didn't get
the closure.
Not because I wasn't healing, ornot because I needed to really
talk about what was reallyhappening to me.
(26:22):
It was like, yeah, I could dothat part, but I still need the
closure, I still need theconversation.
But then, y'all, let me tell youwhat happened.
I got closure.
I went after closureintentionally in my young adult,
so maybe like 28, 29, when I sayyoung adult, um, 28, yeah,
(26:43):
probably like 28, 29, yeah.
Um, I went after this closure sointentionally, and I really paid
attention to that moment becauseright before going into that
conversation, this was the firsttime that someone told me that I
didn't need closure.
And that sounded so crazy to me.
(27:04):
And I'm like, what you mean Idon't need closure, I need to
just move on.
That that's no, I I no, and butokay, funny enough though, when
he said it to me, I did not sayyou're wrong.
I was like, Yeah, you're right,but I still need to just do this
(27:24):
for myself, and I need to justhave this conversation, and you
know, I I'm not going inexpecting anything and wanting
anything.
I you know, I just need to dothis for me.
I was just lying, lying throughlying through my teeth, talking
about I know it's not no, Ididn't.
I thought that I needed closure,I thought that I needed the
conversation, I wanted to havethe conversation and yeah, I
(27:52):
wanted to walk in there and getthe answers that I was desiring.
I was not at the time trying tobe no better, bigger person.
I wanted the answers that Iwanted.
And before I'm gonna talk aboutthat situation, but before I get
into that, I want to go back towhen I was younger, when I was
really in that idea that Ineeded closure and to show y'all
how I really chased it.
(28:12):
And so my papa passed away, andwell, let me go back.
My my papa passed away, right?
But before he passed away, hewas in the hospital for a fall.
He had failed.
And I'm gonna try to get throughthis without crying because it
still makes me emotional, whichis kind of my point about this
(28:35):
whole thing.
Um, but yeah, he was in thehospital for a fall.
We were expecting him, you know,not to be there long to come
out.
We had just seen him, my mom hadjust seen him, and we were on
our way home, we were stuck intraffic, and we get a phone call
that he fell into a coma, and wewere so confused because we were
like, we just seen him.
And I just will not forget thatmoment.
(28:57):
And we uh went back to thehospital, and sure enough, he
was like all plugged up on theon the machines, and they kept
him on those machines.
I don't remember exactly howlong, I don't know if it was a
week, but I know it was youknow, some some days trying to
see if he was gonna come out ofit.
And then I believe they weregiven the word that you know he
wasn't gonna get better.
Um, and so they decided thatthey were going to pull the
(29:18):
plug.
And so when I got the phone callthat that was gonna happen, I
was like, I have to be there.
I have to be at his bedsidebecause again, in my mind, I'm
like, I need this closure.
I can't go the rest of my lifewondering what happened, what
his last breath was like, and Ihad to be there.
And like my brother didn't wantto go because he didn't want to
see him like that.
My cousins, my older cousinsdidn't want to go because they
(29:40):
didn't want to see him likethat.
But for me, I was like, no, Ihave I cannot live the rest of
my life not being able to saygoodbye, not being able to do
this the way that I want to doit.
And if you hear that, you alsohear the controlling part of
getting closure, you know, thatit was about that closure that I
needed.
Um, that I I mean sorry, aboutthe control that I needed to be
able to control the narrativeand not let it control me.
(30:02):
I don't want grief to sneak upon me.
I don't want the anxiety tocome, although at this time I
don't have that language.
But you guys understand what I'msaying.
Like I knew that I didn't wantto go grieving for the rest of
my life, always wondering whatif, because I knew I was gonna
have to grieve, but I don't wantto have to add on the what ifs
and the pain of not knowing whathappened on top of that.
(30:23):
So um I I go to the hospital,and oh, I just remember that day
of standing next to a side, andso it was my my papa is on my
mom's side, so it's my mom'sdad, and but my grandma on my
dad's side was there because weall live in Seattle, you know,
all the church families kind ofget along, and my grandma's
really good.
My grandma, which is my mom'sdad, is really good at like
(30:46):
grief counseling and just beingthere when people pass away.
That is a gift she has.
I do not have that gift, I'mhorrible with grief, horrible
with comforting people whenthey're crying and sad.
It's not my strong area at all.
Um, but she was the one standingnext to me, and I do appreciate
her being there for me, youknow, being the youngest in that
in there at that time.
(31:06):
And I remember her saying, youknow, he can hear you, say what
you want to say to him.
And I, you know, told him Iloved him.
I, you know, obviously saidgoodbye, and we waited, and then
they finally decided to take himoff the machine.
And, you know, again, we wewaited and then he finally
passed away.
I did not leave his side untilthat body was completely out of
(31:30):
sight.
Like we got to sit with him fora little while and then they
covered him up and they walkedhim out.
That whole that's what I mean bystay by his side is that when
they were wheeling him out, whenhe goes around the corner, I was
there, I did not want anysurprises.
I did I wanted to see it all sothat I didn't have to wonder
what it was like down the roadto not have again, not have been
(31:52):
there.
I already said that, but like tonot have been there, I was just
so dead set on that um because Ithought that I needed it, but I
was saying for years that I gotclosure, but the pain never
changed.
My heart never healed.
(32:13):
I became very bitter towardspeople who were still here.
I know that's bad to say, but Ibecame so bitter thinking like,
okay, God, why you didn't takethem?
Why'd you have to take him?
So upset and frustrated at whyhe had to leave early um and so
(32:34):
unexpectedly, and at differentstages of my life, that has come
back to me.
When I graduated from highschool, I was so sad because my
papa was the most excited for megraduating from high school, and
we would talk about it when Iwould come in, and it was my
(32:56):
senior year, so it was he wasalways talking about you know
when I was gonna graduate, whatwas I gonna do, and all these
things.
And so we that was our littleconversation that we would have.
And when he passed away beforehe got to see me graduate, I
mean, heartbroken, likedevastated.
And another reason why I'm gonnago back to when I was at the
(33:17):
hospital, another reason why Iwanted to be there, I just
remember this.
Another reason why I wanted tobe there was because my papa was
a pastor, and I knew that whenwe got to the funeral, like I
knew everything after that, Iwasn't gonna have the same con
(33:37):
access to him.
When it was at the hospital, itwas only a few of us there, just
the immediate family and a fewextra people.
I really don't remembereverybody that was there, but
it's not, it wasn't a lot of us.
It's um, it was just a few of usthere.
And so you I had my intimatetime with him versus when we got
to the funeral, it was sopacked, and you know, um other
family flew in from out of townand other grandchildren came in,
(34:00):
and and you're you're you know,I don't have the same access to
him anymore.
And so I wanted that, right?
Um, but like I was saying, thosedifferent stages of my life, it
just hit me differently.
So when I graduated from highschool, when I got married and
he couldn't be there, a wholenew set of emotions.
And like it's not even a new setof emotions, emotions, it's the
fact that I didn't heal from thehurt in the first place.
(34:23):
I thought that getting theclosure, being there in the room
with him was gonna be enough tosatisfy that healing, to satisfy
my my grief, to not obviouslyget rid of it, but to temper it
so that it won't hurt as bad.
It won't be as bad.
But that, y'all, it didn't, itdidn't, it didn't take it away
because I never really dealtwith it.
(34:46):
I just let the emotions run me.
And when I got married, it cameback up when I had kids and I
would go back home and Icouldn't take my kids to see
him, knowing how much he wouldhave thought my kids were funny.
I really can't let myself go toofar down that rabbit hole
because I just cry every time.
(35:06):
When I oh sorry, I missedcollege.
When I went to college, when Igraduated from college, I just
skipped over whole life events.
When I was when I went tocollege, when I graduated
college, when I got married,when I had kids, there we go.
And even now, now that I'm kindof at a coasting time in life,
all of that stuff bundlestogether.
If I sit and I think about ittoo long, I look at the
(35:28):
trajectory and I'm like, dang,he missed it all.
One of the things that broke myheart the most too was that I
was so young when he passedaway, and I wasn't mature enough
to like have matureconversations, ask him
questions, get to know him.
And so one of the areas,honestly, I think the biggest
area that has broken my heartand been my biggest struggle is
not getting to appreciate him asan adult, not getting to
(35:52):
actually sit down, ask thequestions, get to know him for
him, get to know him not just asPapa, you know, but to get to
know him as, you know, Kelly.
Like that's that was his name,Kelly Easter.
It's like I didn't get thatchance.
And so again, I'm thinking I wasgonna be a little better because
(36:15):
I got the closure.
So that's where I was at when Iwas younger.
Now, when I was just tellingy'all that second situation
where I went into closureintentionally, knowing that I
wanted to get this closureconversation, I wanted to have
this last conversation.
Sorry, but I was saying I wastold closure's not bad.
I mean, sorry, let me get mystuff all mixed up.
(36:35):
Let me start that over fory'all.
The the first situation that Ihad talked about when I was
saying that, I was going intogetting closure intentionally,
but I paid more attention tothis time because it was the
first time that someone had toldme that I didn't need closure.
And so that time I was olderagain, I was late 20s, and it
(36:58):
was an old friend.
We'd had this situation happen,a little falling out, whatever.
And some some time had gone by,maybe like a year or so.
And while we were cordial, Ijust I could not stop obsessing
over the situation.
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit, I couldn't stop feeling some
type of way.
I was really heartbroken becauseI'm like, I really opened up to
you.
I thought we were reallyfriends, like this is crazy.
(37:19):
And a part of me still wanted tobe her friend, even though, like
I said, I lied and was like,nah, I'm not going in it to get
the closure.
I'm just going in for me.
And no, I don't want to be yourfriend again.
But deep down, I definitelythink I wanted to be her friend,
but I knew that was unlikely tohappen.
Um, I was like, oh, I know she'snot gonna give me the answers
that I want to get, but I stillwant to have the conversation.
No, I wanted the answers.
(37:40):
I, you know, again, I'm justlike, I'm struggling in between
those two worlds because I'veobviously by that time seen that
in certain situations, closuredoesn't matter.
I didn't necessarily go back toX's and try to get closure.
Certain people, when you'redone, you're done.
But in other instances, when Icould get closure, I'm thinking
I still need this.
I need this to close that loop,I need this to complete the
story to get the answers that Ineed.
(38:02):
So when I arranged for thiswhole sit-down, or whatever, I
reached out, you know, thinkingI'm being the bigger person
because she ain't never gonna doit.
So let's sit down, whatever,whatever.
You know, she agreed.
I was kind of surprised by that.
But it was like, okay, you'retrying to say phase two.
We sit down.
And then as we're having thisconversation and I'm starting it
off and I'm saying what I needto say, and she starts
responding.
I start realizing she's noteven, she's not gonna be for
(38:24):
coming.
She's not gonna say what shereally says, what she really
thinks.
We're not gonna get to thebottom of this.
In fact, we would need likethree more conversations and
maybe a mediator.
Not that it wasn't, it wasn'ttension, it wasn't like an
argument or anything like that.
It's just that she was not readyto be open and honest about the
things that was happeningbecause she hadn't really dealt
(38:45):
with them within herself.
And and much, and same for me.
Same for me.
I didn't deal with everythingeither.
So I that's why I also kind oflet her get away with a lot of
stuff because I didn't even cometo the table with the right
posture either.
And so when I realized that,right, and I got up from that
(39:08):
table and I walked away, thatconversation didn't change
anything.
I that's when I seen that I waslike, oh my gosh, girl, this
don't work because I was stillthinking about the situation, I
still kept looping everythingthat was happening.
In fact, now I'm looping thesituation and I'm looping the
closure conversation because I'mlike, now what she said in this
(39:31):
closure conversation, don't addup to what happened.
She's saying she, you know, I'mkind of making this up because I
don't remember it all, but it'slike she's saying, you know, she
didn't XYZ, but I'm like, Iremember ABC.
Like, this ain't really so nowI'm just in a I'm in an even
bigger cycle than I was inbefore I walked in those doors.
(39:51):
Now I'm really trying to figureout what the heck is going on
and why can I get over this?
And then I was like over time,you know, as I just kept um
dealing with that, right?
And those feelings.
This isn't all like one day,night and day, one week, one
month.
I don't want to make it seemlike it was like snip, snap,
(40:12):
snop, snap.
It wasn't like that.
Um, but the most important partfor me then became healing on my
own for my own reasons, withoutgetting the answers, without
getting explanations, andwithout closure.
And I thank the Lord that I gotthat experience because after
(40:34):
that I had to deal with closerrelationships to me, where I had
to acknowledge that I wouldnever get closure.
I would never get the answers.
Having that moment of reflectingon my grandfather's passing,
sitting down with you know theold friend, and realizing how
much how much my husband, whowas the person who told me I
(40:55):
didn't need closure, was right.
Where you have to take back thatpower and realize like I will
not get the answers that theanswers that you've been waiting
for are never coming, and it'sone of the hardest, most
(41:18):
gut-wrenching moments of growth.
But this isn't just about notgetting closure, right?
Because we've addressed that.
We're like, okay, we knowclosure is a lie, our culture's
starting to see it.
I'm sure some of you are like,yeah, girl, I'm already there
with you.
I already knew that closure wasa boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
But what do we do when we don'tget closure?
(41:41):
And like I like I said, thisisn't just about not getting
closure, it's about knowing thatyou have no choice but to move
forward without it.
Like, what do you do when youcan't get the closure because
maybe they passed away and theapology you wanted is now
impossible?
Maybe they don't care enough toexplain, and you know that that
(42:05):
realization is so brutal.
Maybe they they they gaslightedyou so much that even if they
did explain, you'd never be ableto trust their words.
Maybe the damage was so deepthat no words could ever fix it
anyway.
And when we realize the answersare never coming, then our mind
starts to go into overdrive.
And this is why I wanted to talkabout this, is because okay, for
(42:28):
some of us who have said, Ialready know closure's a lie,
like me, I already knowclosure's a lie.
It's a myth.
I don't need it.
What are you then replacingwith?
Because you can't just push itto the side.
What are you actually doing toheal?
If you know that you need cert,that your brain craves
certainty, that there are loopsthat need to be closed, that you
that you know that something hasto have, it has to feel as if it
(42:49):
has some sort of finish, whichis so hard for us, right?
Like if you know all that andyou don't get that closure
conversation, you don't get yourlast word, then then what
happens is if we don't replaceit with anything, we still keep
ourselves in a cycle, in a loop.
And so then our minds startsaying stuff like, Well, maybe
if I had said somethingdifferent or did something
differently, or maybe they feelguilty and they just don't know
(43:12):
how to reach out, or I I've beentold this, you gotta be the
bigger person.
You need to have thisconversation, you gotta, and
it's no, no, no.
Um, maybe they were capable ofgiving you the truth, especially
for people who have already goneafter these conversations and
these moments, and you walk awayfrom it feeling no different
(43:32):
than when you sat down, and thenyour mind is just soaring
through what they said, what yousaid, that they really weren't
forthcoming.
Um, well, if that's the case,then why this?
Or feeling like they're lying,but not having enough to be able
to call them out.
So you just gotta walk away withtheir word, but it's still not
sitting right with you.
Maybe the real closure issomething that you have to
(43:54):
create for yourself, somethingthat I have to create for
myself.
And that last thought, that'sThe turning point.
See, the truth I discovered isthat closure isn't a requirement
for healing.
It's a choice.
A choice to honor your painwithout being defined by someone
else's response or lack thereof.
(44:16):
Healing is your responsibility.
It's our responsibility.
It's an individualresponsibility.
It's your journey and yourfreedom.
You have to stop handing thatpower over to other people.
We don't always want to hearthat closure is not what heals
you.
That's hard to hear.
(44:38):
But true growth, what reallybegins to heal you is when you
start to process the emotions,not when you get the right
conversation.
It's acknowledging your pain,your disappointment, your anger,
and deciding that they no longercontrol your story.
And remember, in um BrokenBodies uh roots, sorry, in the
(45:01):
roots episode, we already talkedabout emotions.
We talked about how thoseemotions affect us.
And you have to remember thatour emotions are good things,
they're signals.
But when we suppress them, whenwe push them down, that's when
it becomes bad for us.
That's when we stay in thiscycle and in this loop.
We have to start facing whateverit is.
(45:22):
We have to start dealing withour emotions and keeping reason
and keeping that balance becauseonce you have that, the
emotions, the signals thathappen to us that were created
and put in us so that we can beaware of what's happening around
us and within us, they are thereto help guide us.
They are there to help say, heyBritney.
I don't know if Britney'slistening.
(45:43):
I'm just made.
I don't know why I'm alwayssaying Britney, anyways.
Hey Brittany, you're you'restill hurt.
Hey Tony, you're still angry atyour dad.
Hey Lucas, you're stilldisappointed that your mom
didn't show up for you in thethird grade.
Hey Ashley, you're still holdingon to the pain of your father
(46:07):
leaving you.
You've been waiting to have aconversation, to tell him off,
to tell him how you really feel,to hear why he left you, to hear
why he did what he did.
You have not let yourselfprocess those emotions.
You have not been acknowledgedeven that you still hurt.
You trying to put the put thearmor and not the armor of God.
(46:28):
You're trying to put the armoron and keep the walls up and try
to act like you're so tough andso bad, and I don't need nobody,
and I don't need him, and Idon't need them.
When deep down you you you wantpeople, you want your dad.
You miss and and long for andare hurt by the fact that you
(46:49):
don't have that relationship.
A lot of our triggers come fromwhen we see something, when we
experience someone, something,sorry.
This is about facing the truththat some questions will never
get answered, and realizing thatyou can still be okay anyway.
(47:14):
Healing isn't transactional.
Someone doesn't pay you or giveyou something so that you can
finally heal.
Forgiveness isn't a trade-off,it's not something you give only
if someone says or does theright things.
Forgiveness is a choice you makefor yourself, not because the
(47:36):
other person deserves it, butbecause you need peace.
Some people think they needclosure, but what they actually
need is clarity.
And there's a difference betweenclosure and clarity.
Closure feels like peace givento you by someone else, but it
keeps you dependent.
(47:56):
It says, I can't move on untilthey explain themselves or they
validate my pain or I get mylast word.
Um, and then clarity, on theother hand, is internal.
It's realizing that you alreadyhave the truth, but it's a truth
you might not be ready to acceptyet.
It's recognizing your power tosee reality clearly without
needing anyone else'sconfirmation.
(48:19):
Some of us have the truth, theclarity that we need.
But if you don't take time tofigure out what that clarity is,
you'll keep yourself dependenton this idea of closure, waiting
for explanations and answersthat won't come, and even when
they come will still beunsatisfying.
(48:41):
Instead of again going afterthat clarity, being clear in the
mind, having the understandingand the information that you
need.
You now listen, the clarity maynot be about the person.
You may not get the answersabout the person and why they
did and who they are and theirmakeup, but you can get clarity
about the situation, you can getclarity about yourself, you can
(49:02):
get clarity on the fact that I'mgoing to have to move on without
what I need, and that is okay.
Clarity that you know what, justbecause they left me doesn't
mean I'm a bad person.
Clarity that, you know what,that situation, it hurt me.
We both said our things and didour things.
(49:23):
I'm not innocent, they're notinnocent, but I've owned up to
what I've done, and maybe theyhave, maybe they haven't, but I
know my part like like you needclarity, not closure.
You don't need permission toheal, you don't need an
explanation to accept realityand that peace that you're
craving, it doesn't live insomeone else's words.
It lives in your ability to facewhat you already know.
(49:46):
And I want y'all to hear me,hear, hear my heart.
This is not about shaming youfor needing answers.
It's about empowering you totake charge of your healing,
your growth, your life.
This podcast, I'll be tellingy'all over and over again, I'm
not here to make y'all try to bedependent on me.
I want you all to realize and tobe empowered and stand strong in
(50:10):
the fact that you, my friend,were created for hard things.
You are resilient.
You are strong.
When you think about just theway our bodies are made up, our
minds are made up, and then whenyou dig down and realize how
your soul is intricate and sovaluable, baby, like you gotta
stand up on your own two feet,hold your head up high, and
(50:30):
realize that you have the powerto take the reins of control
back of your life.
It's about deciding that yourgrowth matters more than their
explanation.
It's deciding that your souldeserves peace, whether they
have ever, whether they willever acknowledge their role in
your plane, in your pain, excuseme.
(50:52):
You don't need closure, you needconviction, you don't need
permission, you needperspective.
Most of us already have theanswers.
We're just waiting for someoneelse to say them out loud, but
that's not going to happen.
And then what do you do?
And that's what this is about.
(51:13):
And then what do you do?
And that's not something I cananswer for you.
You have to answer that foryourself.
I want to close with saying thatclosure can work, and that's
okay.
Closure is a very naturalinstinct, it's not a flaw.
It's our mind's way of seekingresolution, it's the heart's way
(51:35):
of finding rest.
We are wired to look formeaning, to want things to make
sense, to crave a final chapterthat ties everything together.
And when something painful endsabruptly, whether it's a
relationship or friendship, orjust a chapter in life that we
weren't ready to close, as Imentioned earlier, like even
with my job, it's normal to wantanswers.
(51:56):
It's normal to wantacknowledgement.
I almost took myself back down adangerous, slopey field when I
started to let my mind go intowhy and why are they ripping the
crop around money with this job?
What am I gonna do now?
What am I?
And then it was like, hold up.
You better remember who you are.
And you know what I told myself,y'all?
(52:17):
I said, I came into this job asAlexandria.
How I got this job was becauseof me.
How I moved up in this job wasbecause of me.
Me losing the job is not melosing myself.
Everything that I brought in, Itake out with me.
Everything that I became,everything that I worked on, all
the skills that I have, all ofthat is still mine.
(52:38):
They didn't take anything awayfrom me except for again a job,
maybe some paycheck, maybe somebenefits.
But those are not things that Idon't know why I said that so
country.
Those are not things that Icannot get again because I am
still me.
In fact, that job was probablyholding me back.
They were probably holding meback, y'all.
And I had to snip, snap, snip,snap.
(53:02):
But okay, back to what I wassaying is that um it's normal to
want closure, it's normal towant answers, it's normal to
want acknowledgement.
And I want y'all to hear me thatseeking closure does not make
you weak.
It doesn't mean you're stuck, itmeans you're human, it means you
care.
(53:23):
And in some clo in some cases,um closure can be healthy, it
can be transformative, but it'simportant to recognize when
closure is possible andproductive versus when it's only
keeping you tangled in the cycleof waiting, hoping, and reliving
old pain.
Closure is valuable, but it'snot required for healing.
(53:47):
And the difference between thosetwo realities is where the real
growth begins.
And some of you have beenwaiting, you've been spinning,
you've been replaying, you'vebeen holding on to the idea that
if you could just get one moreconversation, one more
explanation, one more apology,then you'd finally be free.
(54:10):
But what if that moment nevercomes?
What if the words you're waitingfor are words they're never
going to say?
What if the clarity you thinkyou need is something you
already have?
The truth is closure is a lie.
It keeps you waiting forsomething outside of yourself.
When real healing, that's aninside job.
(54:30):
That happens within.
Closure makes you believe thatyour peace is in someone else's
hands.
But listen, your healing is noton them.
Your freedom is not tied totheir words, your future is not
waiting on an explanation.
The only thing keeping you stuckis the belief that you need
(54:51):
permission to move forward.
If closure isn't coming, whatare you going to do?
Stay stuck in the loop?
Are you gonna keep hoping foranswers that may never come or
are you gonna do somethingdifferent?
Because here's the truth (55:05):
you don't need them to free you.
You don't need the words, youdon't need the closure, you need
a decision, and that decision isyours to make.
And even when you get thosemoments where you get the
closure, you sit down and havethe conversation, or you know,
closure.
I say that in air quotes.
When you sit down and you havethe conversation, you're able to
(55:28):
explain yourself, they're ableto explain themselves.
Knowing this, knowing thatclosure is not something that
you need in order to heal,allows you to walk into that
conversation differently.
You walk into that conversationwith different questions because
your expectation is not, oh, Ineed this answer in order to
heal.
You walk into that conversationwith a different type of speech
(55:50):
prepared because you know what,you know that you know what, me
trying to get my last word, mylast lick back is not gonna
actually help me heal.
We've we've conditionedourselves to think that, man, if
I get to say what I want to say,if I get to do what I want to
do, then all will be well andit'll be gone.
But as we've talked about inthis episode, as we've talked
about in the revenge episode,you don't walk away feeling any
(56:14):
better.
But here's the thing, y'all.
Most of you already know thetruth.
You already have the answers,you already know what it is, and
we're just waiting for someoneelse to say it out loud.
But why don't you say it toyourself right now, and then I
(56:39):
want you to go live like someonewho's finally done waiting.
I want you to go flourish andgrow and heal and blossom and
cherish the life that you'vebeen giving, knowing that you
don't have to wait, you don'thave to rely, and you don't have
to depend on someone else'swords or lack thereof in order
(57:03):
for you to move on.
I hope this helped.
I hope this, I was trying tosay, I hope this pod I was
trying to say, I hope thisepisode helped.
I hope that you enjoyed thisconversation.
And as always, I'm lookingforward to hearing your
(57:24):
thoughts.
Please share them with me.
Please connect with me onInstagram and go to
renovatingtheSoul.com, sign upfor the email list.
I want to hear where you guysare at.
I want to hear your closurestories.
I want to hear, please tell mewhen closure has worked for you.
Because there's definitely timeswhere I've gotten the answers
that I needed, and okay, cool.
(57:46):
Then there's those times when Igot the thought I thought that I
got the answers right.
And as I said in the beginning,I got some answers, and then I
didn't, I didn't like theanswers, and I made up something
else because I just wanted Ineeded an answer, and it wasn't
good enough.
So I want to hear all yourstories good, bad, in the
middle, whatever it is.
I love y'all so much.
(58:07):
I thank y'all so much forlistening.
I appreciate y'all from thebottom of my heart for being
here.
And until next time, let's keepdoing the work to renovate our
souls and let's keep building afoundation for who we are meant
to be.
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