Enablers: The People Who Keep You Stuck (And How to Break Free) | Ep. 14

Let’s face it—if you’re feeling stuck, there’s a good chance that someone in your life is either enabling your behavior or you’re enabling someone else. 

You might not see it at first, but enabling keeps both sides trapped in a cycle of dependency and avoidance.

In this raw, unfiltered episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on how enabling works—whether you’re the one enabling someone’s bad habits or the one being held back from growth. 

This episode isn't just about the enablers around you—it's about the one you might be becoming, too. 

It’s time to call out the well-meaning, but toxic, behaviors that keep people stuck in a loop of fear, guilt, and complacency.

For the enabler, it’s time to stop rescuing, stop making excuses, and start empowering others to stand on their own two feet. 

For the one being enabled, it’s time to stop relying on others to solve your problems and start owning your own growth. 

We’re diving deep into how to break the cycle from both sides, strip away the lies, and finally take responsibility for your own life.

This episode isn’t about blame—it’s about breaking free from a pattern that’s keeping you from becoming who you’re meant to be. If you’re ready to confront the hard truths and rebuild something stronger, this is your wake-up call.

Listen. Reflect. Break the cycle. It’s time to stop being held back by others—and to stop holding others back. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Renovating the Soul, where we
help you turn the mess intosomething meaningful.
I am your host, Alexandria, andtoday's episode is all about
breaking free from a patternthat may be keeping you stuck in
abling behaviors.
Now, I know the idea of enablingdoesn't always seem obvious,
especially when it feels likeyou're helping someone you love.

(00:23):
But what happens when helpingsomeone prevents them from
growing or learning importantlife lessons?
That's what we're here touncover today.
In this episode, we're divinginto how enabling, often masked
as love, support, or help, cancreate toxic support systems.
We'll explore how these systemshinder growth, not just for the

(00:47):
person being enabled, but forthe enabler too.
And most importantly, we'lldiscuss how to break free from
these patterns, starting bybuilding a stronger foundation
for the relationships thatmatter most.
At Renovating the Soul, webelieve in personal
responsibility for growth.
You are not stuck, you arebecoming.

(01:07):
And by breaking free fromenabling, you give yourself and
those around you the chance tothrive and truly transform.
So let's get started on thisjourney of empowerment, growth,
and healthy boundaries.
If you've been here, um, youknow that I like to define my
terms.
And if this is your first timejoining us, then you'll learn uh

(01:30):
that I do like to define ourterms so that we're all on the
same page with what we'retalking about and referring to.
So I want to start by definingwhat it what is an enabler.
So an enabler is someone whosupports or encourages harmful
behaviors in another byshielding them from the
consequences of their actions oreven the natural consequences of

(01:52):
actions in life or just life'sconsequences, um, often
unintentionally.
Being enabled means receivingsupport that prevents you from
facing the consequences of youractions, which hinders personal
growth and responsibility.
And then when we say toxicsupport system, which I don't
know why I cannot say that,toxic, toxic support system, it

(02:15):
is a group of people orrelationships that reinforce
negative behaviors or patterns,preventing personal growth and
healing.
So that's what we mean whenwe're saying enabler, enabled,
and toxic support system.
I wanted to do this episode umfrom lots of personal
experience, and it actuallywasn't in my original like

(02:38):
episode list, brainstorm listfor season two.
But then after, like, I kepthaving these repeat
conversations with my husbandabout people that we knew, and I
remember saying to him, like, Iwonder if people realize how
much they're enabling hinderssomeone.
And I just remember beingsitting there and being so

(02:59):
frustrated, thinking about likewhy can't they see that they're
enabling such bad behavior?
They're not helping them,they're not, or you know, it's
master's help, right?
This is this is me, my personalfrustrations.
I'm just like, I when are theygonna get it?
When are they gonna see thatthey're keeping them from
actually having to answer forthe things that they've done?
Whereas they're insteadshielding them from having to

(03:21):
take accountability for thethings that they've done.
And so that really led me tobeing like, let me jump on the
podcast, like, let me make thisan episode that I need to talk
about.
And then of course, from there,I did some research and just
really making sure that Iunderstood the definitions,
seeing some of the implicationsthroughout history and time.
And a lot of that we're reallynot gonna get into today.
We're really just gonna betalking about, you know, what it

(03:44):
is, what it looks like, um,defining, you know, the or
really looking at like the roleof enablers in our lives, um,
how to break free from it, andwhy this is obviously so
important, right?
And and why staying in cycleslike this or in toxic support
systems actually keeps us fromgrowth and evolving and
changing, which is what thispodcast is all about.

(04:05):
So now we're gonna talk aboutthe role of enablers in our
lives, and we're going to lookat how enablers show up in
different relationships.
So family, friendships, workenvironments, and in and even in
communities.
And I want to give like a quickexample for most of these.
So we talked a little bitalready about parent-child, you

(04:26):
know, I said mama's voice, butit can really go anyway.
It can be dad-daughter,mom-daughter, dad-son.
It doesn't matter, right?
So parent-child relationship.
One of the things that happenswhen um someone is being enabled
is that parents minimize orignore bad behavior.
And so what this would look likeis the parent might make excuses
for their child's inappropriatebehavior, such as lying,

(04:46):
cheating, being rude, or actingout in order to avoid
confrontation or embarrassment.
And I have I have seen, I havefour boys, but I have seen this
with a lot of my um parentfriends, moms, and dads, where
you know, we're in public andtheir child does something and
they don't want to, you know,act on it in that moment.
My parenting style is my kidswill get the discipline, you

(05:12):
know, whether we're in the parkor whether we're at home.
I like to keep, we me and myhusband, my husband and I like
to keep it consistent whereverwe are because we believe that
that's how our children aregoing to learn.
Also, children like to play you.
Mm-hmm.
They do.
So when even when people come toour house, my kids try to act

(05:32):
like they can get away with morestuff, and they have.
They have definitely tried.
And I have to remind them allthe time that I don't care who
walks through those doors.
Okay, Jesus Himself can sit onthis couch, and if you start
acting up, I'm a I'm gonna getyou, right?
But I think there's also anacknowledgement that we need to
have that disciplining is notjust spanking.
And so I feel like for a lot ofmy generation, because we've

(05:53):
done away with spanking, we thenassociate that we only associate
spanking with disciplining.
And so when we throw outspanking, we accidentally throw
out disciplining, not realizingthat every child, every person
needs discipline.
So whether you hit your child ornot, they still need discipline.
And that's what we're talkingabout here, right?

(06:14):
I never said, you know, I hit mykids.
No, I said I discipline mychildren in front of whoever it
is or wherever we're at.
The same way that you behave athome, it's the same way you're
gonna behave in public, and viceversa.
And so I've seen and again, alot of my parent friends don't
want to do that, and they makeexcuses for the child's
behavior.
That's something that the kids,kids, like I said, they play

(06:34):
you.
They pick kids are very smart,they pick up on that, right?
And it's not to say, like Isaid, my kids have tried it all.
My my two-year-old ran from mein Target, and I had to chase
that boy down the down themiddle of the aisle.
And I mean, and and honestly,he's he's a kid, like there
wasn't.
I just told him, I'm like,Apollos, come on now, you know
better than that.

(06:55):
There's not much that I need togo be on there besides letting I
didn't need to yell, I didn'tneed to take me to the bathroom,
I didn't need to do, I justneeded to have a conversation
with him in that moment and say,Apollos, that's buddy.
Like, I know, I know you thoughtwe were playing with you, but
you can't run off from me, youknow.
So, anyways, anyways, but that'sjust in the first example is um
that parent-child relationship.

(07:16):
So, how this shows up in thatminimizing or ignoring bad
behavior, and of course, thiscan be applied to any of them.
This could also lead to um noaccountability and again that
lack of discipline.
Next, for me, I wanted to shareanother in the aspect of the
parent-child relationship,something that I personally
struggle with, which isover-identifying with the
child's struggles.

(07:37):
And so, this might look like aparent who overly identifies
with their child's problems tothe point where they make those
um make the child's strugglestheir own.
And this prevents the child fromdeveloping problem-solving
skills.
And so, my oldest son, Khalel,was having problems with the
neighborhood kids.
There, they were like twoneighborhood bullies.
Um, and my solution, okay, mysolution was I'd fight kids

(08:03):
because that's what I've seen,honestly.
Like, I've always had someonecome to my rescue.
If it wasn't my dad, it was mygrandma, if it wasn't my
grandma, it was one of myaunties.
Like, I've always had someonecome to my rescue and be like,
somebody messing with you atschool, or we coming up there
because I got a big family.
And so the way that I knew toresolve bullies was let them
know they got the wrong one.
And I remember an incidenthappened, and honestly, looking

(08:25):
back, it wasn't that big of adeal.
I can't even remember what hadhappened, but the little boy
said something to Khalil, and Iwas hot, I was pissed, and the
boy had left because I wentoutside looking for him.
He had left, and so I went toQuincy and I'm I'm telling him,
and Quincy's like, he's lookingat me and he's like, That's it,
and I'm like, What do you meanthat's it?
He said this to my son, and he'slike, Listen, kids have to go

(08:48):
through things.
It's like kids are gonna saythings.
Kaleo needs to learn how to fixthese issues on his own.
And so, unbeknownst to me,right?
I'm thinking, I'm thinkingQuincy doesn't even really know
what's going on.
I mean, he knew that they wereneighborhood bullies, he knew
what they look like, all ofthose things.
But I'm thinking, like, okay,you know, uh-uh, you know, big
dog, like I'm I'm here.
I, you know, whatever, mamabeer.

(09:10):
And unbeknownst to me, Quincyknew about more of the situation
than I did because he would lookout the window and be watching
and see different interactionseven with other kids that were
Cal O's friends, like Cal O andZeus's friends.
And he was like, I don'tintervene unless I, you know,
feel like I need to, unless itgets somewhere where they're not
where they're not resolving theconflict.

(09:31):
He's like, but I do that becausethey have to learn on their own
how to solve their problems, howto deal with conflict.
If we always step in, then we'regonna keep them from that.
And that's if that was a hardlesson for me.
Okay.
So I just wanted to sharepersonal examples, which I'm
gonna share personal examplesthroughout all of this because

(09:51):
again, I've been enabled andI've been an enabler.
Um, another example of enablingwhen it comes to relationships
or how this shows up inrelationships, excuse me,
family.
So you can have a relative whoconstantly is bailing another
relative out financially, right?
Paying their bills, um helpingthem when they uh overspend,

(10:13):
helping them to avoid theconsequences instead of them
learning how to budget and thenconstantly making excuses for
them, right?
So that's how that can show upin family relationships.
You also have um friendship, andso I've I've experienced this a
lot too, where you know, youhave a friend that either like
constantly covers up the so youhave friend A, you have friend

(10:35):
B.
Friend A is constantly coveringfor friend B, and friend B is
consistently making poordecisions, whether that's toxic
relationships or just neglectingtheir health.
And so then what happens is theenabler, which is friend A, they
offers emotional support bylistening and even reassuring
the friend that they did theright thing, even when friend B
did not.

(10:56):
And we're gonna get into whypeople do this, but this is
again, these are just like quickexamples.
There's not exhausted by anymeans.
And then on a larger scale, thiscould be one person, such as the
pastor, something we talkedabout in Predators in the
Pulpit, an organization, amovement, a company, um, right,
where you it could be a team,even right, but on a larger
scale, when we're just kind oflooking at especially the things

(11:19):
that are going on in our worldand in the United States in and
of itself today, right?
Where one person could beenabling people who always see
the system or someone else atfault, instead of taking
accountability and encouragingthem to stop blaming external
sources, um, they continue toencourage them to blame external

(11:42):
sources and instead ofacknowledging their own role and
improving their owncircumstances.
I hope that makes sense.
So if we go back to Predators inthe Pulpit, there are a lot of
pastors that we could talkabout.
One comes to mind, Jamal Bryant,and you can just listen to his
sermons.
I um do not like the way that hedemeans the people in his

(12:06):
congregation, and uh, and a lotof pastors do this, but the way
he demeans the people in hiscongregation, because if well, I
should say how he does this isif you listen to the way he
talks to them, he talks to themas if they're not they're not
smart enough to figure thingsout on their own.
It's always somebody else'sfault.
Um, we gotta, you know, downwith the people because

(12:28):
somebody's always attacking us.
And even when it comes to,again, when when we look at
predators in the pulpit and wetalk and we talk about how a lot
of those people they wantsomething, right?
They usually want your loyaltywith these, with these types of
pastors.
They want your money, they wantyour tithe, quote unquote.
And so they have to keep you ina place where you are not
capable, where you are beingenabled to think that you cannot

(12:53):
do it on your own.
You need the pastor to think foryou, right?
Um, even the way that they viewGod, like God is not pleased
with all the white people of theworld.
He's only like it's just verysick, very toxic.
But I want us to see how thiscycle of enabling, again, it
will play into things like thevictim mentality.
And another reason why I have anissue with Jamal Bryant and

(13:15):
people like him and movementsand systems similar to it, is
that there's often a message toblack people that says, we are
victims, we are not capable ofstanding on our own two feet.
We are constantly gettingenabled to think that we need a
handout, that we need someone toopen up a door for us instead of
being told and pushed andencouraged that you can do it on

(13:38):
your own.
And when you listen to messages,it doesn't have to be sermons,
but when you listen to messages,speeches, there's they're often
contradict themselves.
They both will tell you that,oh, this person is their fault
because they've held us down forso long.
This system held us down, thishistory held us down.
But then on the other side,they'll say, But you're so great
and you're so powerful and youcan do it.
So it's like, well, which is it?
Like, am I still being held backor am I a fully capable adult

(14:01):
able to like conquer whatever Ineed to conquer, you know?
And so I use that as an exampleum because I want us to see that
on like the bigger scale.
So yeah, let's go on now to someof the subtlety of enabling
behavior, especially how it'smasked as helping or supporting.
So um enabling will start withsmall acts of helping or

(14:23):
protecting or supporting, whichthen escalates over time as the
enabler becomes more entrenchedin the pattern.
And so when helping becomesenabling, um, is when the person
doing the helping steps in toofrequently or for issues the
other person can or shouldhandle themselves, thereby
preventing them from learning,growing, and facing the

(14:45):
consequences of their actions.
So, as we talked about, youknow, earlier, like we talked
about uh the familyrelationship, right?
Where you have the relative whois always bailing the relative
out.
They could very much think thatI am helping them, but they
don't realize that that helpinghelping is actually enabling
because they're always payingthe bill, they're always bailing

(15:06):
them out, they're always, youknow, and so that's where it is,
and and that's why they say thatenabling can be done
unintentionally because it'smasked.
It's kind of weird, maskedmasked as help or support.
So we already talked abouthelping.
Now we're gonna talk aboutsupporting when supporting

(15:29):
becomes enabling.
So supporting becomes enablingwhen the support turns into
rescuing or consistentlyallowing someone to avoid facing
the natural consequences oftheir actions instead of
fostering independence, thesupport encourages dependence.
This could be a friend whosupports you through a tough
time, they listen, they offeradvice when asked, they provide

(15:51):
encouragement.
But what they don't do is theydon't solve your problems.
They help you stay grounded,they help you move forward, but
they're not coming in andactually, let's say you're
looking for a job, they're notactually filling out the resume
for you or you know, fixing yourresume for you and doing the job
applications.
Now understand that I'm notsaying friends can't help.
Like if you got a friend thatthat's what they like, like for

(16:13):
me, I help a lot of familymembers and friends with resumes
and things like that, went tobusiness school, et cetera, et
cetera.
That's very different than acycle of it continuing on where
there have been people who havegotten like that, who have
relied on me way too much.
And I realize I think I'mactually keeping this person
from learning and growinginstead of helping someone who
is, you know, just in a bind,right?
Or that just needs that extraboost.

(16:34):
There's a difference.
And so I want us to rememberwe're talking about this and
that acts and that and thatmindset of enable enabler being
that toxic support system andultimately being a cycle.
Something that you know you'llhear me keep saying.
An example of supporting when itcomes to that enabling context
is that instead of justsupporting the same friend, they

(16:55):
constantly step in to solve yourproblems for you.
They don't let you make mistakesor face the consequences of your
actions.
So exactly the opposite of whatwe just said.
And so I want I want us toremember that, right?
That like it it can be hard toidentify enabling because it's
masked as support or love,protection or helping.
So we have to keep in mind,right, that it can be subtle,

(17:18):
okay?
Even if it's a cycle, and evenif you try to talk to somebody
about it, even if you try tocall out a mama's boy and tell
them, I think your mama got ahold on you, he might say, My
mama loved me, okay?
And that's and that's why.
And so again, we're talkingabout the role of enablers in
our lives, how this shows up,how um what it what it looks

(17:39):
like essentially, right?
Now I want to look at just afew, like literally four common
behaviors that enablers enable.
Um this is not exhaustive,obviously.
These are just some common ones,some big ones that I often see.
So oftentimes, you know, thispeep people are they have
chronic laziness or a lack ofresponsibility.

(18:01):
And so enablers might cover forsomeone who refuses to take on
their own responsibilities,right?
Um, abusive behaviors thatenablers can unintentionally
support um abusive behavior,whether it's physical, mental,
emotional, or verbal.
And I again I have personalexperience with seeing abusers
protected and covered up insteadof getting them the necessary

(18:24):
help that they need.
Um, victim mentality, as we'vealready talked about, staying in
this idea that it's alwayssomeone else's um uh fault and
supporting their sense ofpowerlessness and not
encouraging them to takeresponsibility for their own
growth and their healing, whichis what renovating the soul,
which is what this podcast isall about, right?
Like we are not out here makingexcuses um that just are

(18:48):
irrelevant or always trying toblame something or someone else.
We take responsibility for ouractions, for our lives, for our
growth, right?
Um, and so then the fourth onewould be practical, which is
kind of similar to chroniclaziness, but procrastination or
lack of progress.
I I I pulled this one separatelyfrom chronic laziness or lack of
responsibility because umprocrastination doesn't always

(19:10):
mean that the person doesn't getit done.
It just means it takes themlonger to get it done.
And that also goes into thatlack of progress, right?
When you're constantlyprocrastinating on something and
it takes you so long to get itdone, you lose time.
And so you've made a lack ofprogress, whether over a course
of time or even in a shortperiod of time.
You know, people that try to setgoals, right?
And then then ablers don'treally um help them.

(19:34):
Sometimes, you know, they couldeven block them, right?
Again, from taking action onthose goals instead of
encouraging them to work towardthem.
You ever had someone like scoffat you for having a goal or make
you feel like you weren't gonnabe able to accomplish it?
Now I want to get into we'restill talking about, you know,
how this shows up, but I want toget into the mind of the enabler
just a little bit.

(19:55):
I want us to realize that manyenablers are acting out of deep
emotional needs or unhealedwounds.
And so we've already said thatenabling often comes from that
place of love or concern.
However, without boundaries, itcan prevent the other person
from facing the consequences oftheir actions and thus hindering

(20:15):
their growth, right?
And so love, concern, those are,those are totally fine.
Wanting to help, wanting toprotect, those are natural
instincts, right?
But when we don't have theboundaries, um, it's it's going
to end up being a negative.
It's going to end up keeping thepeople, keeping the person from
growing and evolving andchanging and being challenged.

(20:36):
It's it's sad to think about howenablers are acting out of those
deep emotional needs or thoseunhealed wounds.
But I just point this back towhy this work is so important.
Because whether you're theenabled or the enabler, there's
a reason why that you findcomfort in this.
There's a reason why you'restuck in this cycle.
Um, and so some additionalreasons why people may enable

(20:59):
along with those unhealed woundsand things.
And some of these might be alittle repetitive, but first is
the fear of conflict ordiscomfort.
And so many enablers they avoidconfrontation because they fear
the emotional or relationalfallout.
The thought of having a familymember and you guys, oof, I am
like this.
I do not like the idea thatsomeone does not like me or is

(21:22):
upset with me.
And so coming from someone whohas been an enabler, um, I
definitely avoid confrontationbecause the thought of, and
that's what I was gonna say, itsays it in my notes, right?
Like the thought of a child, apartner, or a friend being upset
or angry with them uh may feeloverwhelming.
So they step in to smooth thingsover instead of addressing the

(21:42):
core issue.
And I was really like that witha friend where I never, well, I
shouldn't say never, but when Idid try to hold them
accountable, I was met with alot of stuff, right?
And instead of me workingthrough it or trying to, you
know, address.
Or even just kind of leavingtheir friendship.

(22:03):
I didn't, I felt like if I left,you know, who would really be
there for them?
So I stayed instead ofaddressing the issues.
And it didn't really go, itdidn't really go well because
then I realized that everyonearound this person was enabling
them.
They didn't really have anyonethat was telling them, hey,
you're this, right?

(22:24):
Or hey, you know, you're you'reloud and wrong, or hey, you got
the a real bad ego problem.
Like they, they just, we alljust kept this person from
evolving and growing because Ithink a lot of us felt as though
they couldn't handle it.
Um, they wouldn't be able to doit.
And without our help, without usbeing the ones to calm them down

(22:46):
and help them and and be thatshoulder that they need, they
probably would just go off thedeep end.
But that's not, you know, that'snot that's not right.
And so again, a lot of enablersenable from a place of fear of
conflict or discomfort.
And the psychological impactfrom again on the enabler is
that this can stem from anunderlying fear of rejection or

(23:06):
abandonment.
And then people who fearconflict may also have
experienced difficult orunstable relationships in the
past and learn to cope byavoiding confrontation.
Another reason why a personmight enable is the desire to,
and this could kind of be seenas the same thing, but the
desire to protect and keep thepeace.
Maybe it's not the same thing,it's it's a little different.

(23:26):
I actually see this a lot withmarriages, more so on that keep
the peace.
I hear a lot of husbands saythat they avoid confrontation,
avoid having to hold theirspouse accountable because they
want to keep the peace.
They they just rather have peacein the home than an argument,
then a nagging wife, than youknow, all this stuff

(23:47):
confrontation, whatever, right?
Um, and so oftentimes enablersthey want to protect the person
they care about from pain,disappointment, or failure.
I think this is why a lot ofmoms step in for sure.
This desire to shield loved onesfrom discomfort can sometimes
blur the lines between helpingand enabling, as we already
talked about.
And so the psychological impactfrom you know that desire to

(24:10):
protect and keep the peace isthat enablers may have grown up
in environments wherepeacekeeping was essential for
emotional survival, um, such asin a chaotic household or
emotionally volatilerelationships, they may also
have unresolved trauma or fearof the chaos that conflict can
bring.
And I like when I think aboutsome of the husbands that I know

(24:33):
that do this in their marriages,they oftentimes were are either
very different from theirparents and was the peacekeepers
sometimes, even for theirparents or for the whole
household, their siblings andeverything, or they grew up as
the only man in the household.
And so they were used to, youknow, keeping the peace when it
came to the women in their home.
Um, and so again, that's thatpsychological impact.

(24:56):
Uh a few more.
So the um enabler, they may feelguilt or responsibility for the
other person's behavior.
They feel as though they're theperson that um needs to make
things right, they need toprevent them from feeling
things, and then they they feelguilty because they either, I
don't know, for for a lot ofdifferent reasons, right?
They just may feel like they areresponsible for that other

(25:19):
person's actions or emotions,um, especially if they've been
told that they failed them insome way.
The guilt can stem from avariety of sources, past
mistakes, trauma, uh belief thatyou should be doing more.
There again, there's so manydifferent reasons why um or
where this guilt would wouldcome from.
Another reason that someone mayenable, and I think this is a is

(25:42):
a really good one to keep inmind, is that it's a learned
behavior or habit.
And here's really where thatunintentional aspect comes in,
because this is where it couldbe passed down from family
dynamics or cultural norms.
And so if you if the person grewup in an environment where
enabling was common, then it'sjust a repeat behavior.
So you don't even realize you'reyou know, quote unquote

(26:03):
enabling, you just think againthat you're helping or you're
loving or you're caring for thisperson.
And then the last one, lack ofawareness or understanding.
And so sometimes enablers, theylike just like I said, they
simply just do not recognizethat they're enabling.
They think that they're beinghelpful, they think that they're
being supportive, but they failto understand that their actions
are ultimately preventingsomeone from taking

(26:25):
responsibility or growing.
Now that we've talked about, youknow, the role of enablers in
our lives, got into the mind ofenablers, um, I want to look at
the impact of enablers on ourgrowth and healing.
And so I don't think it's asecret, right?
That toxic support systems canstun our personal development.
And I say I don't think this isa secret because these are

(26:47):
conversations that, you know,I'm sure we've all had about
toxic people and things likethat.
I think where it gets trickywith something like enabling is
that the enablers in our lives,they're usually people that we
trust.
They're usually folks in ourinner circle or or people that
we care about in some capacitybecause they do have an

(27:08):
influence over our lives.
They do their what they say doesplay a role into how we respond
and how we do and how we are, somuch so that for people who have
been stuck in a cycle ofenabling, their whole life
revolves around thisrelationship.
Their whole life has been shapedby the things that this the
person or people, right?

(27:28):
But but let's just say theperson has kept them from
experiencing, you know, they'vegone to jail over and over, and
then they've been billed outeach time, right?
Or they've, you know, they theywent and got married, but they
got divorced could always goback home to mama, like whatever
it is.
Um, they're used to thisrelationship, they're used to
this because they care aboutthis person or they feel that

(27:51):
this person cares about them orthey trust them to some
capacity.
And so it could be harder inthese toxic support systems to
really see it as they're they'rethey've kept me back, they've
helped me back.
Because as an enabled, you mayalso feel like, no, they've just
been helping me.
No, they've just been supportingme and not realizing that, you
know, there's there's a lot ofthings that a lot of areas that

(28:13):
you may lack in, you know,responsibility-wise,
accountability-wise, or maybewhen it comes up in
relationships, as it often does,um, when you get finally find a
girlfriend, a boyfriend, uh, uh,you know, finally get married,
and then it's your spouse whohas to tell you, like, you are
X, Y, and Z.
And then we get so offended andhurt because we've never heard

(28:33):
it before, because we've been ina constant cycle of enabling.
And I think that's why a lot ofmarriages don't survive either.
And the same thing happened toQuincy and I was enabled for
much of my life.
Um, and getting in therelationship with Quincy where
he's like, You're not as greatas you are.
No, I'm just kidding, he didn'tsay that, but you know, you have
to live with that person.
So calling them out on theirthings, you know, helping them

(28:54):
to recognize certain things, andit was hard because I'm like,
why has no one ever said this tome before?
Like, why has no one told methis, you know?
Um, and so yeah, it it can itcan lead you right to lack of
personal development.
And so we talked about theenabler.
We're gonna talk about them onemore time in a second, but I
also want to talk about theemotional toll of being enabled,

(29:17):
right?
Now we're talking about I havebeen enabled.
And what happens is you oftenfeel like you could feel
stagnation, guilt, frustration,or resentment because on the
surface or in the moment, youmight feel relieved or grateful
for the support or the help orthe protection or whatever it
is, but underneath, and overtime, you're often aware that

(29:37):
you're not living up to yourpotential.
And I have a family member thatis like this and or has been in
this cycle of enablement.
And I feel that they know thatthey are capable of a lot more
and have known for a long time.
But, you know, being in yourlike older, like 50s and and up

(30:01):
in age, it almost feels like nowit's impossible for me to go
back and try to do what I waslike, what I was starting to do
in my 20s, but then I wasstopped because of these all of
these enablers in my life.
And so I look at that familymember and my heart really does
ache because there's there is somuch more to them.

(30:22):
There is so many things thatthey could have done.
And I think in the moment you'regrateful that you have that
support for the wrong thingsthat you've done.
But also when it happens againand again and again, and you're
never taught to takeaccountability, that just
becomes what you fall back on.
And so then you hop from, youknow, problem to problem,
whether it's drinking, whetherit's drugs, then you hop from

(30:45):
woman to woman or thing tothing, right?
Like, and when I say thing tothing, I kind of mean hobby to
hobby, not like thing is in, youknow, some abstract type of
person, but you know, woman towoman and a thing to thing
thing, whether it's a hobby,whether it's a state, whether
it's whatever it is.
Um, and then this can lead tolack of self-esteem and
confidence because they don'tever get the chance to prove

(31:06):
themselves, like to prove tothemselves or to prove to
others, excuse me, that they arecapable of handling challenges.
How sucky is that that at onepoint in your life you know full
well that like and you feel likeI can conquer anything.
And then because of theenablers, you know, again,
unintended oftenunintentionally, and you not
even recognizing it, you seeingit as love, support, protection,

(31:28):
or whatever it is, you allowthem to carry on in that way.
And then as the time continueson, you start to feel less
empowerment and more incapable.
Like I am not able to actually,you know, I've always need this
person.
Look what happens when I get inthis trouble and no one else is

(31:48):
there for me.
And look who comes and saves theday.
And um, my family member.
Again, this is a story that'skind of breaking my heart, but
you know, they went to collegeyears ago.
This is like probably year along, really long time ago.
Um, but they went, they left ourhometown and went to college,
and you know, I remember beingso excited for them and just

(32:10):
like, oh yeah, you know, they'regonna conquer the world and
they're just gonna come back sogood.
And then, you know, mistakeshappen, things happen, and
instead of you know, a parent ora sibling saying, you know what,
that's okay.
You messed up, let's let's justkeep going.
Instead, it's like, oh, youmessed up.
We knew you was gonna mess up.

(32:31):
I gotta fix this now, I gottaclean this up now, I gotta cover
for you now.
And when you are stuck in thatcycle, then you feel like, man,
I knew it.
I can't do it, I can't move on,I can't, and so that's where
comes that lack of self-esteemand that confidence, and then
you don't try again, you don'ttry to do hard things because
remember that time when I triedto do hard things, and then life
naturally just happened, and Ireally should have just learned

(32:53):
from it.
But instead, here came mama,daddy, sister, brother, cousin,
uh, friend that saved the dayand told me I wasn't really in
the wrong, but I really was likeyou see what I'm saying, and so
the person that's being enabled,this really does play on your
emotions and your feelings andso many aspects.
And I wanted to use this paperfrom by Plato.

(33:16):
So Plato and the allegory of thecave um in the Republic, which
is the paper, Plato presents theallegory of the cave where
prisoners are chained and onlysee shadows on the wall.
One prisoner is freed and comesto understand the reality
outside the cave.
The allegory is ofteninterpreted as a metaphor for
enlightenment and personalgrowth.

(33:38):
Um, and so the application toenabling for us is that enabling
behavior can be likened tokeeping someone in the cave,
preventing them from steppinginto the light of self-awareness
and growth.
By intervening too much,enablers can keep others from
realizing their potential orseeing the truth of their own

(33:59):
consequences.
And many of us might have heardthis quote the unexamined life
is not worth living.
And again, this just speaks tothe value of self-examination
and growth, suggesting thatwithout confronting one's
reality, there really is no trueprogress.
And so, like in the republic,this allegory of the cave, um,
where the prisoners are chainedand only see shadows on the

(34:22):
wall, like you don't really seethe freedom and understand
what's out there until you'reout of this cave, until you're
out of this, you know, um theprison.
And that is often what peopleare doing to us is keeping us
from seeing reality as it is.
We end up with a distortedreality, we end up with bad

(34:42):
habits, we end up thinking thatwe're less um responsible than
we really are.
So now we're gonna quickly talkabout how to recognize when you
are an enabler or being enabled.
And I think I'm gonna useexamples, but I think they can
they'll work for either side.
Um, so signs that you might beenabling somebody else's, you
know, are you excusing theirpoor behavior?

(35:04):
Are you rescuing others fromtheir quant from consequences,
from their consequences of theiractions, or are you making
excuses for their harmfulhabits?
Um, those are good questionsthat are good things you can
ponder on.
Um, so that's what it's like ifyou if you're being the enabler,
right?
And so enablers, as we'vealready talked about, they avoid

(35:25):
confronting negative behaviorsto maintain that peace or avoid
discomfort.
But this emotional toll ofenabling, this is what I want to
ask you if you're trying tofigure out am I an enabler or am
I being enabled?
Enablers, um it plays a it playsa really big big part in how
they feel, right?
So enabling isn't justdetrimental to the person being

(35:48):
enabled, it can take a seriousemotional toll on the enabler as
well.
Enablers often feel, just thinkabout it, exhausted, resentful,
and trapped in a cycle ofhelping that doesn't lead to
lasting positive change.
The emotional labor they putinto fixing or managing someone
else's behavior can feel like anever-ending task.

(36:10):
So something to consider is thatenablers they develop this sense
of victimhood.
And something we're gonna talkabout here in a moment is you
know, like being the fixer, therescuer.
They believe that they are theonly ones capable of fixing the
situation.
And this can lead to burnout anda loss of self-identity as they
become consumed by the needs ofothers.
So ask yourself how you feelwhen you get that phone call

(36:31):
again.
Ask yourself, you know, whenwhen when uh so-and-so is
texting you for more money, orwhen you get that call about
another more relationshipadvice, really truly ask
yourself, am I enabling this badbehavior?
Or am I the person, the friend,the family member that is the
only one trying to keep themaccountable, or are they coming
to me because I never actuallyreally do tell them the truth?

(36:54):
And honestly, I had to realizethat in the second one of like I
am a fixer.
Let me let me say the next partand then let me come back to
this because one of the coremotivations for enabling
behavior is the enabler's desireto feel needed or important.
So that's a the uh that's thesecond part.
The first part that we said wasthat enabling, right, that
emotional toll takes on them,but then the enabler also has

(37:16):
this desire to feel needed,important, and it's often rooted
in the fear, as we've talkedabout earlier, of being
overlooked, unimportant, orunloved.
And so people who enable, theymight derive a sense of identity
from being the rescuer or thefixer, and their worth, their
very worth becomes tied to howmuch they help others.

(37:37):
I was definitely that person whosaw myself as a fixer.
My worth was tied to that.
My worth is in being that fixer,being that helper, being the
person who goes above andbeyond.
And oh, you need help with yourresume, let me just do it for
you.
Oh, you need this, let me justdo it for you.
Until I realize, you know, I'mlike, wait a minute, that's not

(37:57):
helping the person.
Like, they need to actuallylearn how to do their resume and
apply for jobs.
Like, they need to actuallylearn how to budget their money.
I'm not gonna keep giving themmoney and they got a job.
You know, I had I really did.
I it's really hard.
It's really hard when you've notseen enabling as enabling, but
instead is helping andsupporting and love.

(38:18):
This is what family's supposedto do, and this is what a best
friend's supposed to do, andthen you're like, Oh, and then I
think it's when you want them tochange, or in the times when you
want them to do on their own, orwhen you tell someone no, and
they're like, You told me no,and then you're like, Oh, I see
what you think this is, and thatsucks, you know, and that and it

(38:40):
sucks for someone like me tohave to look at that, right?
And to have to be like, I can'tbe that person for you anymore.
Because we're in a cycle andit's very unhealthy, and I'm
losing, and you're losingultimately, because the enabler
has the emotional aspect um thesorry, the enabled it takes an

(39:03):
emotional toll on both.
That's what I'm trying to say,the enabler and the enabled.
Both of us going through it fordifferent reasons and in
different ways.
And as the enabler, I needed todig deep with why I felt the
need to be the fixer, therescuer.
What I was saying earlier, well,what I was trying to say, and
then I went on that little sidetangent.

(39:24):
But what I was trying to say wasthat I know so many women that
are fixers.
I know so many women that arethat they are, you know, with
people that they just well don'twant to acknowledge like the red
flags.
They do acknowledge it, butthey're like, that's okay.
I'm gonna help them, that'sokay, I'm gonna push them out.
That's all, and it's just like,no, that's not your
responsibility.
Um, we'll get into what ahealthy relationship looks like

(39:46):
here in a second, but someself-reflection and some
questions you could askyourself.
Am I making excuses forsomeone's harmful actions?
Am I doing the work for them toavoid consequences?
I think those are good questionsto really think about, write
them down, you know, say voicerecord them.
And then we've already talkedabout, you know, what it looks

(40:07):
like when you're enabling, butwhat does it look like when
you're being enabled?
And I think this is gonna bepretty, I think it's pretty
obvious.
So we're just gonna breezethrough this.
Um, we're gonna we're just gonnabreeze through this part, but
um, signs that you may be beingenabled is that someone
continually cleans up yourmesses, they excuse your bad
behavior or they allow you toavoid facing the natural

(40:29):
outcomes of your choices.
Some questions forself-awareness for you would be
do I feel like I'm not fullyaccountable for my actions?
Do I rely on others to shield mefrom responsibility?
And I think you can also askyourself, like, when I'm not in
when I'm not around my innercircle or these people I trust,

(40:49):
how do people outside of thatrespond to me?
Are people often trying to tellme that I have a problem with
this, that, or the other?
And does it seem like it'sforeign advice because nobody
else is telling me that?
And that's another good thing toponder on.
It's so important to recognizethe role of enabling in both
directions because it is acycle.

(41:10):
Like it doesn't matter if you'rethe enabled or the enabler, it's
a cycle, and we gotta break it.
We gotta break that cyclebecause as we've already
discussed, it can lead to somany more implications.
And I have um, y'all, I wish Iwas kidding.
I legit know people that havebeen enabled for years.

(41:31):
I mean, like from childhood toadulthood.
And when you get into your 60sand your 70s and your 50s, just
finding that stuff out, italmost feels like it's not worth
it to try to confront it now.
I've been letting it go for solong.
Why should I address it now?
But I promise, no matter how oldyou are, no matter how young you

(41:53):
are, it is so worth lookinginto.
It's so worth investigating,it's so worth asking yourselves
these questions because it's nottoo late to grow, it's not too
late to evolve, and it's not toolate to change.
When you are trying to do this,and and because this is a
relationship, because it's acycle with two people involved,

(42:15):
some there needs to be aconversation somewhere, whether
it's the enabler to the enabledor the enabled to the enabler.
You have to, here's some advice,right?
Here, like you should uhapproach these conversations
with care.
It's important to be gentlewithout sounding accusatory and
focus on the behavior of theperson.

(42:36):
So, for example, I have noticedyou often make excuses for and
I'm gonna put my name here,Alexandria, when they don't
follow through.
How do you feel about that?
So instead of going in and beinglike, you you've been enabling
that girl all her life, like yougotta, you gotta, you gotta go
in approaching theseconversations with care.
You need to acknowledge theirstruggles, whether you verbally

(42:58):
acknowledge it or whether youjust come to terms with it on
your own.
And I think that this is easierfor those who've been enabled.
Like, like you need toacknowledge that the person who
was enabling you, the enabler,may have unresolved trauma,
self-worth issues, orexperiences that have shaped
their need to enable or theirreason why they enable.

(43:21):
And again, remember that theymay not be aware of it.
And so, for example, you mightsay to them, I understand that
you want to protect me, or I gotso many family names there.
I have so many common familynames trying to think of a name
outside my family, Sally.
Um, I understand that you wantto protect Sally, and I can see
how much you care.
But have you thought aboutstepping?

(43:41):
How have you thought about howstepping in might be preventing
them from learning or growing?
Right.
And so I've learned in mycoaching sessions to frame
things as questions so that theperson can and like figure it
out on their own.
And they may not answer rightthe first time.
They may be like, I'm notenabling them, I love them.
Right?
You continue to just ask themquestions.

(44:02):
And it's not about trying totrick them.
It really is like getting themto think about it on their own.
They have to take accountabilityin a way where they see it.
Just because you tell someonethat the sky is blue doesn't
mean that they're going tobelieve it.
Just because you go to someoneand tell them that they are an
enabler doesn't mean thatthey're going to believe it.
Sometimes you have to kind ofgive them that evidence, ask

(44:24):
those questions and kind of leadthem in a self-discovery way
where they can reflect on it ontheir own.
Send them this episode, youknow.
Those are those are other waystoo.
Using I statements, this one I'miffy on.
You know, again, take take whatyou need, figure out how to have
these conversations, you know,for the type of people that
you're gonna have to deal with,the type of person you're gonna

(44:45):
have to talk with.
But this one I got from someadvice um somewhere else when
doing some research, using Istatements.
So this avoids the blame andshifts um the focus to your
feelings and observations.
This is something that I've hadto do.
So, for example, I would say,like, I feel frustrated when I
see you continuing to enableBrittany because it seems like

(45:06):
they are not learning from theirmistakes, right?
Like, um, you have to put itback on you, and I I don't think
there's anything wrong withthat.
These that that's this is theway I've had to phrase it, even
when trying to get this messageacross to my parents of like,
you know, I am frustrated by theway that you know, this even the
way people treat them, right?
And I'm like, do you do you seehow, or I use an example of

(45:30):
something that has happened.
Do you see how this might haveled has led to this, or how this
is keeping you from this, youknow?
And so again, you can customizethis however you need to.
Um, ultimately, what needs tohappen is that whatever whoever
you're having the conversationwith, in whichever way it goes,
responsibility needs to be thebig big push here,

(45:52):
responsibility andaccountability.
And so reminding the person,whether they're the enabler or
the enabled, that continuingthis harmful behavior is
ultimately going to hinder theirgrowth and it's gonna prevent
them from facing theconsequences necessary for
change.
And again, that's the enabledand the enabler because they're
both they're both in anemotional cycle, they're both in

(46:13):
a cycle that is limiting them insome way.
So let's talk about breakingfree um and some steps toward
overcoming toxic supportsystems.
So these are some action steps.
Uh, number one is recognizingthe enabler's role in your life.
Again, I think that you canstart to do that through
self-reflection.
It may come to you immediately,right?
Um, number two is setting andenforcing boundaries.

(46:36):
Here I want to remind us thatboundaries are not about cutting
off or rejecting the person inneed, but it's about creating
space for both individuals totake responsibility for their
actions.
So the enabler must firstacknowledge their own emotional
triggers and patterns and thentake intentional steps to stop
the cycle of rescuing.

(46:56):
And and sorry, not to just saythat that's the only the
enabler, but I think that canwork on the enabler or the
enabled side that you need tolook within and then take um
steps towards the the the tostop the cycle of rescuing,
sorry, to stop the cycle ofenabling.
And so I said that aboutboundaries because it is such a
message that we talk about, butlike what does that mean?

(47:18):
What does it look like?
Are boundaries just notanswering messages, not talking
to the person at all?
I think um in the book dramafree, which we're gonna talk
about in the next episode, butat the book Drama Free is a
really good book.
I I don't have it next to me togive the entire title, but she
talks about boundaries and shetalks about how the difference

(47:38):
between like boundaries and kindof I guess what's unhealthy is a
boundary would be, you know,okay, someone is calling you
that normally expects you tobail them out.
You ignore them in that moment,right?
But you come back around to havea conversation when you are
ready.
That's a boundary.
On the flip side, it would bethat person calls you, you

(48:00):
ignore them.
You never talk, you never callthem back because you just
simply want to hide.
Like you, you, you don't want tohave to deal with it at all.
That also does not give us thespace to grow.
And I am one to talk becauseagain, I I avoid confrontation.
So that is a move that I willpull.
That's how I remember it fromthe book, because I was like,
dang, all right, that's not aboundary.

(48:20):
Uh no, that's not.
That would just be simplyignoring the person.
Um, and so the boundary, right,is setting setting your
limitations, setting um, andcreating space, right, for you
to take responsibility for youractions and for the other person
to take responsibility for theiractions.
And when you set thoseboundaries, remember that it's
hard for people to keep yourboundaries.

(48:42):
It's it's really hard.
But consistency is reallyimportant, reinforcing them.
And again, it's not about youdon't love them, it's not about
you're cutting them off, right?
One of the most importantthings, in my in my opinion, for
in these action steps isshifting the mindset, right?
And and from the enabler side,it would be shifting the mindset

(49:03):
from rescue to empowerment.
From the enabled, it would beshifting from I am uncapable to
I am fully capable of handlingthe consequences of my actions
or whatever, right?
I'm not powerless, I'm powerful.
I can do these things on my own,I can march on my own beat, I
can grow, I can change, I canaccomplish, right?
Um, and so, but I love this ideaof this shift from rescue to

(49:26):
empowerment in both of them,right?
But I want to talk about thatfrom the enabler's point of
view.
And so the enabler has torealize that in there and like
shifting from the mindset thatrescuing others um is not the
healthy thing, that the healthything actually is empowering
them.
Empowerment means trustingothers to handle their own

(49:47):
struggles while offeringemotional support and guidance
without solving their problems.
That I am actually, I am notempowering you by stepping in
for you.
I actually am empowering you bygiving you the space to handle
your own, by giving you thespace to solve your own
problems.
I am still here from you, stillhere for you.
I still love you, I stillsupport you.

(50:08):
I can even still guide you.
I can tell you where to go toget the resume template, but I
don't gotta do the resume foryou.
I can um, you know, talk to youif you get locked up again, but
I'm not coming to bail you outthis time.
You know what I mean?
Like, like it's giving thatemotional support and guidance
without solving their problems.
That is more empowering than theopposite.

Last two points on this (50:30):
the actual items are prioritizing
personal growth over the comfortof maintaining toxic
relationships, which is reallyhard, but very important.
It might feel selfish, but youhave to know that your growth is
more important than staying intoxic cycles.
So you may have to cut somepeople off, you may have to
leave some people where they'reat in that state of enabling and

(50:52):
wanting to do that, but that isway uh that that is um, you
know, your personal growth isway more valuable than keeping
toxic relationships.
It is.
And then last is replacing thetoxic support with healthy,
accountable relationships.
And so, as we talk about on thispodcast all the time, this

(51:14):
self-reflection andintrospection is so important
because this is where we're ableto identify where enabling may
be happening in our lives orwhere we are enabling someone
else.
And so as we're closing up here,um, the power of
self-accountability and that anda healthy support system, right?
Breaking the cycle, breaking thecycle of enabling, it requires

(51:36):
self-awareness, vulnerability,and a willingness to face
discomfort.
The enabler has to accept thatit is okay to step back and let
other people experience theconsequences of their behavior.
And for the person who's beingenabled, it requires an openness
to growth and an understandingthat being given the freedom to
face challenges is a sign oflove and not neglect.

(52:00):
And so it's really important onthis, right?
So we talked about the power ofself-accountability, that's
that, the introspection, thelooking within, the
vulnerability, the the um thetime it takes.
I mean, it's not easy.
I always say that, right?
But it's so important.
And on the other side, thehealthy support system, the
power of having a healthysupport system really is a game

(52:21):
changer.
And we all know, I mean, you gofrom high school, right, with
your toxic relationships, andthen you go to the to your 30s
and you're like, huh, I actuallywant friends that care about
more than how they look, right?
I want friends who care moreabout the golf course or
whatever it is, or just work.
Like, we start to look forthings different, right?
As we mature, so we know thatit's important to surround

(52:42):
ourselves with a healthy supportsystem, people who are going to
hold us accountable even whenit's uncomfortable, people who
are not afraid to call us out.
I want to tell this story thatjust came to me, and then we're
gonna close out.
But um, um when I was in mytoxic relationship, my my
godsister, I call her the Hulk,shout out to her, and I'm like

(53:05):
green, but um, she became myvoice of reason.
I had told no one what was goingon in that relationship because
I was quite embarrassed by a lotof it.
I knew a lot of it was wrong, Iknew I should have been spending
as much money as I was spending.
I knew that some of the thingsthat he would say was foul, but
like I just didn't, I justthought like this is what I was
supposed to do, etc.
etc.

(53:25):
So, anyways, when my god sistergot whiff of it, and when I
finally opened up to her towardsthe end of the relationship, she
was the one that was like,absolutely not, you're not going
back.
Like, you need no, like, shedidn't care what I said, she
didn't care if I had I told herabout a dream I had, she didn't
care what I said.
That girl was like, absolutelynot.
You you you made the rightdecision, and we really need

(53:47):
people like that.
She did not care about myfeelings, she didn't care if I
cried, she didn't care if I tryto give her all this, but he's
this, he's that, but it's reallynot.
But look about this dream.
What do you think God is saying?
And she was like, It's not fromGod.
I remember looking at her like,what?
It's not from God, and she'sright, it wasn't.
It wasn't some like what?

(54:08):
Like you're trying to say thatGod wants you to stay in this
unhealthy, like you really thinkthis person's gonna like, I
don't know.
It's so it's so you want tobelieve what you want to believe
in those moments, but it takes afriend like her, it takes a
friend like, you know, in a in asupport system like like what
she gave me in that season toreally wake me up and be like,
you're on the right track.

(54:29):
We're when we're not doing this,you're not going back, like, and
to hold me accountable to what Isaid and to hold me accountable
to um, you know, the to where Iwanted to be, right?
And she would remind me ofthings that I said myself, not
things that she put in my mind.
And then, and obviously heradvice as well from her
experiences.
But you want people around youthat are gonna tell you the

(54:51):
truth even when it'suncomfortable, even when it's
not popular.
We are striving for healthyrelationships, not enabling
ones.
And so that's it for today'sepisode of Renovating the Soul.
I hope today's conversation hashelped you recognize the subtle
but powerful effects of enablingand giving you the tools to
start shifting those patterns inyour life.

(55:13):
Remember, empowerment meansallowing others to face the
consequences of their actionsand grow, just as much as it
means setting boundaries foryour own well-being.
The journey isn't easy, as Ialways say, but it is so worth
it, y'all.
By building a strongerfoundation for who you're meant
to be, you create space for realchange, both for yourself and

(55:35):
the people you love.
If today's episode spoke to you,I encourage you to reflect.
Are you enabling someone in yourlife?
How can you start settinghealthier boundaries that
encourage both growth andindependence?
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
So share your experiences andreflections with me on social
media, make a story or DM me,but you can also send me an

(56:01):
email, um, sign up for the emaillist.
That is where I plan on beingmore intimate with you out my
community.
And if you feel comfortable,like let me know if you have
questions, because I know thatthis is not easy, and I know
that you know it's easier to sitdown and me talk about it on the
podcast than it is to actuallyget out there and do it.
And as a person who's beentrying to do this, as a person

(56:23):
who's been trying to break thesecycles and habits, like I'm here
with you and for you.
So that's why I started thatemail list so that I could
create a space where you and Icould connect and you and I can
really get into the nuances, thelittle things, the questions,
the things I might have missed,right?
The how-tos.
And so sign up for that emaillist.

(56:44):
You can find that in thedescription.
And let's continue thisconversation, inspire each other
and build a community that'sdedicated to growth, change, and
transformation.
Thank you, thank you so much fortuning in to renovating the
soul.
And as always, remember, you'renot stuck, you are becoming.
Keep building, keep growing, andkeep renovating from the inside

(57:06):
out.
And as always, let's keep doingthe work to renovate the soul.
Bye, y'all.