October 8, 2025 • 26 mins
The ground can feel solid—until it isn’t. When mass layoffs hit the federal government, I lost the job I’d poured nearly five years into, right after earning my warrant and hitting a career stride that finally felt like mine. What followed wasn’t just a scramble for the next paycheck; it was a full-body pause to ask what kind of life I actually wanted to build. I walk through the shock, the one-week ultimatum, the grief over benefits and community, and the subtle ways “security” can keep you from the work your soul keeps whispering about.
I share why I didn’t jump into another role, how endless scrolling on LinkedIn clarified what I wouldn’t do again, and the decision to chase a path I’ve wanted since I was young: returning to school. That choice meant facing a dreaded standardized test, buying the prep course, and admitting I couldn’t do it all at once. So I let the podcast breathe—not because it stopped mattering, but because foundations come first. We talk about capacity, identity, and the discipline of choosing one lever that makes everything else easier later. Along the way, you’ll hear about the human side of public service, the truth about change inside big systems, and the quiet power of a back catalog still serving new listeners.
Most of all, this is a story about turning endings into beginnings—about gratitude arriving after anger, about discomfort becoming a daily practice, and about letting my kids see me start again with purpose. If you’ve ever been laid off, felt stuck at a “safe” job, or wondered how to navigate a major pivot with family, faith, and focus intact, you’ll find tools and encouragement here. Press play, then tell me: if security wasn’t the goal, what would you build next? Subscribe, share this with someone in a pivot, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—we read every one.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
I got laid off, y'all.
Yeah.
Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
something meaningful.
Whether this is your first timehere or you're returning, I am
so glad that you have joined metoday.
I hope that you find somethingthat you can take away and apply
(00:22):
to your life.
Here at Renovating the Soul, webelieve that your soul is your
home, so you should make it aplace you want to live.
And we strive to build astronger foundation for who
you're meant to be.
If you're new here, you probablywould wouldn't notice this.
But if you're returning, you mayhave noticed that I have been a
little absent this year.
Um, that was not the plan.
(00:43):
Yeah, that was not in my plans.
When I said in the intro that Igot laid off, I'm not talking
about like four or five yearsago about to tell y'all an old
story and then give y'all someencouragement.
It is September 2025.
I got laid off in February 2025.
Yes.
So I was a part of thegovernment mass layoffs, and it
(01:07):
was absolutely devastating.
Um, this is my first time everbeing laid off, fired, let go
from a job.
I've been working since I was16, and so it was very
heartbreaking, but it washeartbreaking, not just because
we were getting laid off, butfor several different reasons.
Number one, this was the longestjob that I have had.
(01:30):
I was at GSA for almost fiveyears.
So, yes, I worked for GeneralServices Administration.
Um, I was there for five years.
I had climbed the ladder, so tospeak.
And so I had just gotten what'scalled my warrant to be able to
work on my own leasing projects.
And I guess let me explain whatI used to do for the government.
(01:51):
Um, I was a realty specialist,that's what I came in as.
Got my job back in 2020.
I did the leasing andcontracting for on behalf of
other federal agencies.
And so if you just think of afederal agency, we would
actually do the leases and theconstruction and the maintenance
for the physical buildings thatthey were housed in.
(02:15):
And I really liked it.
It it was a job that I knewnothing about, didn't know it
existed, didn't know what GSAwas, just happened to get this
job, you know, fell in my lap,went through the interview
process, got the job, and reallyloved it, and decided that I was
going to put my best footforward and do the best that I
could.
And I believe that I that I didthat.
(02:36):
And so this was this was thefirst job that I could see
myself at long term becausethere were so many opportunities
within the government.
And I was planning on beingthere for at least 10 years so
that I can get them studentloans paid off.
Okay.
And I was almost there.
I did it would have been fiveyears in November.
(02:56):
And the reason why, I thinkpeople need to understand, like
the reason why the governmentmask layouts were such a big
deal for employees as well,because outside looking in, it
can look like, man, they're justwhining, they're complaining.
But a federal job is supposed tobe one of the most secure jobs
that you can have in America.
It when you get into the federalgovernment, it's very hard to
get let go from the federalgovernment.
(03:17):
Now, that could be a pro and acon.
Okay.
We won't we won't go too muchmore in detail.
Um, but that could be a goodthing or a bad thing for people
like me who are working hard,who are doing their job, it is a
good thing.
Um, but it it's it again, thefederal government, the federal
job is supposed to be one of themost stable jobs.
And so when whispers startedgoing around after the election
(03:40):
was over that there were goingto be these mass layoffs and
these, you know, shutdowns andthese, you know, what reductions
in force, people were telling usbecause I've only been again for
the in the government for fouryears, but you have people 20,
30 years who have been through,you know, so many presidents,
and they were like, it can'thappen this fast, it's not gonna
be so soon.
And let me tell y'all, okay,there's gonna be a lot of little
(04:03):
lessons in this, and I hope youcan pick up on them.
Never say what cannot happen.
The only person that hadconsistently told me that if
things wanted to get done, theycould get done, was my husband.
And he was like, I don't knowwhy you keep accepting that
things can't get done if theywanted to get done.
Because, and he was telling methat because throughout my time
(04:25):
at GSA, I've been trying to makechanges or just give feedback on
certain things, and I kept beingtold, oh, the government's so
slow, they can't do that thatfast, they can't da-da-da-da.
So when this happened, he waslike, See, he wasn't rubbing in
my face, he was just like, See,I told you, like, when things
want to get done, they can't getdone, you know.
And and yes, I learned that.
But the layoff didn't just hurtbecause you know, I had been
(04:47):
there for so long and put in mytime and um, and really I wasn't
there as long as other people,but I was there, I was there a
long time to me and my jobhistory, and I planned to be
there for a long time again,something that I didn't see
anywhere else that I was or justdidn't seem as feasible in other
jobs um that I had been in.
(05:08):
But it also hurt because thebenefits like this job shifted
our family and helped us becauseI got this job right when Quincy
and I made the decision that hewould go back for his master's
in math and I would go back towork.
I was a stay-at-home mom beforeI was at GSA.
And so getting the job at GSAprovided stability, benefits.
(05:32):
And because I was at thefour-year, almost five-year
mark, my leave time changed andI got different kinds of perks
for being there for for, youknow, you know, as you do with
mini jobs when you're there acertain number of years, things
shift.
And so I had really built up myannual leave bucket, my um, what
was the other one?
Sick leave bucket, and you getunlimited sick leave with the
(05:53):
government.
So I had built up those bucketsand um was really excited
because the federal government,you had to take your annual
leave.
You cannot carry it over.
And so I had built up a goodamount and I was like, yes, I'm
gonna have Christmas off, likejust certain little things,
right?
That I was looking forward to,but I was really proud of how I
built up my leave.
Um, and I was able also to dothat because I had two babies
(06:15):
while at GSA.
Um, and the the paid parentalleave was amazing.
And so there were just so manythings.
There were also severalopportunities that I was looking
forward to taking because thiswas gonna be the first year that
I was not pregnant.
So I was really excited that Ididn't have to take three months
off, that I could just go fullthrottle.
And again, I had just gotten mywarrant.
(06:36):
So, what that meant for me wasthat before getting my warrant,
I had to work underneath otherproject leaders.
I'm just gonna use those laymanterms.
And so I had to do things theirway, even if I didn't like it, I
had to do it their way.
Um, it's kind of like aglorified assistant, is what I
started calling it.
And then finally getting mywarrant and becoming a
(06:57):
contracting officer meant that Igot to lead the path.
That meant that when peopleworked under me, I was gonna be
able to um do a better job thanI felt like was done with me or
pick up on the certain thingsthat the people I did learn from
and like um I could take carrythat over into how I treated the
people that I worked with.
I hadn't gotten to that point.
(07:17):
I was only doing solo projects,which I really loved.
Um, and so I was just excitedfor that.
Also at GSA, it's a big federalagency, it's not as large as
some of the others, but it's adecent size.
And I had gone through severaldifferent managers and
personality types, and that wasa struggle because there was
(07:40):
good and there was bad.
Okay, we're not gonna sugarcoat.
There was good and there wasbad.
And so after having to workthrough so many different
personalities, like four, threeor four different managers, and
finally landing to a managerthat I got along with that was
that knew how I like to go afteropportunities.
(08:04):
So she would bring meopportunities that listened to
my frustrations, that kind ofheld the same values and beliefs
as me when it came to our workat GSA, um, was just amazing.
And we didn't even get to worktogether that long.
Like I was so mad.
So when I say that we werefrustrated and crying, it was
like going in phases for the twoweeks because let me actually go
(08:28):
back and explain this a littlebetter.
So we when we found out aboutthe layoffs, we uh had one
week's notice to decide if wewere going to take what was
called like a resignation offeror stay on and deal with like
all of the changes, but riskyour job and risk you know not
(08:51):
having you know almost any payor anything like that, not
having your benefits continue,etc.
etc.
And so they gave us one week todecide that, but then the union
spot on behalf of those of uswho were covered by the union,
which I was, and they were ableto it it paused in the court, so
(09:13):
then there was like an extraweek or maybe just an extra
couple days, I don't fullyremember, but it was about two
weeks.
I know we were like in limbo.
Um, and then once the courtsfound that they could do the
layoffs, then things changed.
So that's what I mean by it wasa very like up and down two
(09:33):
weeks where a lot of people weretrying to figure out what
decision they were gonna make.
And even if you're looking at meand you're going, girl, you were
only there for years, yourhusband's getting his PhD, like,
you know, you you should beokay.
Think about the other peoplethat were there 20, 30, 40 years
who had dedicated their lives tofederal service, who you know,
(09:56):
whose families relied on them,whose spouses could no longer
work, um, people who duringtheir time there were in
marriages and now they weren't,so now they're the sole provider
for themselves and theirchildren.
I mean, just so many differentscenarios.
I knew people who had spouseswho were sick and people who
were the primary breadwinner fortheir family, and to have years,
(10:20):
double-digit years of your work,you know, just kind of thrown to
the side is reallyheartbreaking.
And it was more heartbreaking tosee that for those who had been
there longer than it was formyself.
Um, I did cry for myself forsure, because again, what I was
trying to say before was that inthose two weeks, different
aspects of what I was losingkept coming to my mind.
(10:42):
And so one day it would be, ohman, I was working so hard to
climb this ladder.
Another day it would be dang thebenefits, you know, the medical,
the dental, everything that wastaking care of us as a family.
Like another day it would be therelationships that I built with
my coach.
I had a coach at GSA, and mycoach, shout out to Queen, got
me through my time at GSA.
(11:04):
We didn't just talk about work,we talked about family, we
talked about um friends, we wetalked about everything and the
self-development was like numberone, but we talked about a lot,
and she really got me through alot.
And I've already shared with youall that therapy didn't work for
me.
So when coaching did, that waswhat was my therapy was
coaching.
(11:24):
The format was exactly what Ineeded.
And boy, it is actually one ofthe reasons I started this
podcast was through thosethrough that coaching session,
figuring out that I needed toleverage my passions on the side
and having that conversationwith my coach.
And so just thinking aboutthough, again, those
relationships, those the thingsthat I was gonna be losing, the
(11:45):
um just everything, everythingthat I was excited for.
I did a lot in my short timethere.
I joined a lot of leadershipthings.
I completed a um leadershipprogram with the Oregon Federal
Executive Board, and then fromthat I became the uh acting
deputy administrator for theOregon Federal Executive Board,
(12:07):
got to do a little detail withthem for a few months, which is
a which is a big deal for me.
Um I got to go to the NationalTraining Institute for Blacks in
Government.
It was virtual that I got to goto.
And then after that, we wereasked to put together and put a
presentation.
Myself and one colleague, wewere asked to put together a
presentation about ourexperience.
(12:28):
That opened up the door forother colleagues to go in the
later years to the NTI.
Um, I was on just more recently,was on a training council where
we were actively making thefederal government, making GSA
and leasing specifically moreefficient, bringing it in more
(12:50):
to the times, automating some ofour systems.
We had literally just automatedone of our longer lease
processes, and I was so pumpedfor that because it we we used
to have to deal with pages,pages of um leases.
So that's just you know asnippet of like some of the
things that I was really lookingforward to, and then having to,
you know, realize that man, it'sgone just like that.
(13:12):
Like when we're literally in themiddle of projects or having
projects to discussions, I'mactively talking to less stores,
I'm actively talking to agenciesone day, and then the next day
they're like, Y'all ain't evengonna be here in like a week or
two.
Crazy, crazy, because one of thefirst things they told us was
that we will be going back intothe office full time, and I was
like, Cool, I'm not gonnacomplain about that.
(13:34):
We were only in the office oncea week.
I was like, I'm not gonnacomplain about that because at
least I have a job.
That was the first phase, andthey were like, you know, that
get get ready, we're comingback.
And then it was but psych so,anyways, yes, I got laid off.
So here's where things took aturn for me was that when I was
(13:56):
trying to figure out what I wasgoing to do next, I was sitting
there staring at LinkedIn, I waschatting with Chat GBT, and Chat
GBT is telling me jobs that Icould go into, and I'm like,
nope, nope, nope, nope.
And I'm staring at LinkedIn andI'm like scrolling, scrolling,
scrolling.
I don't want to go into realestate, I don't really want to
(14:19):
do leasing, it's not somethingthat I've been passionate about.
And my thing was I did not wantto climb another ladder or get
used to another set of managersand personalities and people
just to be in the same positionthat I'm in in a few years.
(14:40):
I so desperately wanted to be ina position where I could control
the outcome, someplace thatwould lead me to working on my
own, which is what I've alwayswanted to do.
An industry, a field that hadendless possibilities.
And that was something that Iwas passionate about.
(15:03):
That was in something that Icould do if for the rest of my
life, for the rest of my life,somewhere where I could bring
everything, bring all of me, andnot stifle my growth and not
have to um push certain thingsabout me to the side.
Um, because I came into GSAletting them know that I had
(15:24):
passions outside of GSAs, publicspeaking, I was really creative,
presentations, um, events.
I let them know that like that'sthe creative and the passionate
side about me.
And they were, oh, we're gonnamake room for that, we're gonna
make room for that.
And of course, things happen, itgets busy, but that just didn't
happen for me.
And so I knew that I didn't wantto go into another place where
(15:46):
they're gonna sugarcoat me andbuild me up just to forget that
I was even there, so to speak.
And so for me, the answer liedinto in some place, in something
that I had been teasing forhonestly since I was little, but
for the past couple years when Iwould just get tired of being at
GSA or just not feel thepassion, it was something that I
(16:08):
would often bring to Quincy, andthat is I'm going back to
school.
I wasn't gonna let y'all waittill the end.
No, I am going back to school.
Now, I'm not gonna say whatschool or what field yet.
Well, I don't know what school,but I'm not gonna say what field
just yet because I am the typeof person that does not like to
put things out there just forme.
It has nothing to do with y'all,it has nothing to do with like,
(16:30):
oh, she's trying to bemysterious.
No, just for my own sake, Idon't want to put it out there.
It's it's a big deal that I'meven telling y'all my plan, but
I just I'm like when I telly'all it was really weighing on
me to come and have thisdiscussion and tell you guys
what's been going on, not justfor telling y'all's sake, but to
(16:52):
encourage someone, to helpsomeone, to even talk about
something different that's apart of life, right?
What do you do when you have topivot?
What do you do when things don'tgo according to your five-year,
10-year plan?
That's all a part of part oflife.
That's all a part of invadingthe soul because your soul is
literally a part of your life.
So, yeah, so yeah, I am goingback to school.
(17:13):
Um, what ended up happening waswhen I decided to go back to
school, there's a standardizedtest that I need to take in
order to get into thisparticular graduate school um
field.
Particular graduate schoolfield.
Um, and so the reason why Ididn't pursue this all these
years is because of thestandardized test.
(17:35):
And this time I thought, what doI have to lose?
I have the time, my husband'sworking.
Um, I'll be able to sustain,we'll be able to do the same
because I ended up taking theresignation offer.
And so, in that became, um, theyeither you were able to continue
on pay and benefits for acertain amount of time.
So, because of that, I hadoptions, and so I thought I have
(17:58):
nothing to lose now.
This is actually the momentwhere I do this.
I bought a prep course inFebruary, and it was going
really well.
And I was managing the podcast,and I was still keeping up with
episodes and still puttingthings out, and then in one of
my prep cast classes, we metonce a week.
In one of the classes, I justhit a bump and I was like, Oh my
(18:22):
gosh, I'm I'm this this is why.
This this is why I hadn't donethis, and that's when I could
not split my brain space betweenthe podcast and the test.
And as you guys know, I doeverything for the podcast: the
ideas, the editing, therecording, and I just did not
have the capacity to do both.
(18:43):
And I also felt as though thepodcast would be here.
I it took me, y'all, thatpressure was eating me up.
And I had to let myself know Ihave put out 17 strong episodes
that don't have thousands oflistens yet.
So that means that there arehundreds of thousands of people
that can still stumble uponthese episodes.
I have family that haven't evenlistened to my podcast episodes.
(19:06):
Okay.
So there are so many people thatcan still benefit and listen to
what I have already put out.
The pressure comes in that, youknow, when you're in that
creative world, they're tellingyou that it's like poster bust,
you know, you have to post everytwo weeks, you have to post on
social media every day, yougotta be on TikTok, you gotta,
and so that pressure was justeating me up that I'm like, my
(19:28):
podcast is never gonna grow if Idon't keep up doing this.
But I literally had to thinkabout my future, my children,
the goals that I'm trying toreach.
And the podcast was always ahobby because I had GSA, because
I had a solid foundation, Icould do the podcast.
Well, that foundation was gone,and now I'm trying to build a
new one, and so I had to focuson the foundation and where I
(19:52):
wanted to be, where I was andwhat I was trying to get to.
And so that just naturally meantthat I had to take some time
away from the podcast.
Now, I definitely didn't plan onit being that long, but the test
I'm taking, um, you don't haveto just take it once.
And so I've I've had to I've hadto keep studying throughout from
(20:13):
February up until now,September.
I am still studying and tryingto make sure that I'm getting
the score that I want to getinto the school that I want to
get into, and so that I can getdash of money.
Okay, so that is what I havebeen up to.
I've been talking about goingback to school for a long time,
(20:35):
as I've already mentioned, butto be sitting here this close to
applications and writing essaysand taking this test is like
it's really crazy.
And I'm super excited for thejourney.
I am ultimately thankful that Idid get laid off because it gave
me this opportunity.
I literally had nothing to lose.
(20:57):
I had no more excuses.
I couldn't blame the job, Icouldn't blame the job and the
balance between the job and thekids.
And you know, I just I just hadno more excuses really in my
way, and I am thankful for that.
I am thankful and I am happy andI'm so excited to be pursuing
something that is challenging,that pushes me more than I've
(21:20):
been pushed before, and thatshows me that I've always had
what it took to do this.
I love this podcast, I lovey'all so much, and it was not my
intention to disappear or to notput out episodes.
I literally still have mynotebook and my digital planner
(21:40):
of the episodes that I wanted torelease, but priorities.
And this ended up becoming waymore involved than I originally
anticipated.
And it is way more involvedbecause I still have four kids,
still have my marriage, stillhave so many things to balance.
(22:01):
And it's like drinking from awater hose going back to school
at 34.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
It's just like so, it's like, what did you guys
talk about?
What do you do?
What's the new lingo?
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
What's the it's been really crazy, but it's also been
a lot of fun and reallyexciting.
So I just wanted to thank youall for your patience, for your
love for those of you, the fewof you that I already told I was
going back to school and sharedsome of my um that tug of war
between, you know, doing thepodcast and going back to school
and just a reassurance of like,hey, look, that podcast is gonna
(22:33):
be there.
And it is, and it's notsomething that I am
intentionally neglecting, it issomething that I plan to keep
and come back to.
Like I said, I still have lotsof episodes, and I honestly
cannot wait to share more aboutthis journey to like get on the
other side and sh tell you guysabout just so many of the things
that I've learned, and that'swhat this podcast has always
(22:55):
been about, right?
Is like not just renovating thesoul in the abstract, but
renovating the soul in thepractical.
What happens when you are laidoff and you have to pivot?
What happens when you have tobalance priorities?
How do you respond when lifedeals you cars that you did not
want?
And that's when you show up,right?
(23:16):
You do the work for thosemoments, as I always say.
You do the work in the slowseason so that maybe when that
storm comes or when life startsto happen, you have the tools
and you're equipped.
I'm still learning, I'm stillworking on me and the things
that I need to work on.
But ultimately, I am very, veryexcited about everything that is
(23:39):
to come.
One of the things I'm mostexcited about, and then I'm
gonna jump off, is my kids beingable to see me do this.
There have been moments when Igot really sad because I was
like, if I had only told myselfthat I could do this a long time
ago, I could have done it beforeI got married and had kids, and
I would have had more time, andyou know, I wouldn't have such
(24:02):
bad mom brain and all of thesethings.
But then I started to look at itas it is actually such a
blessing for my children to beable to walk alongside me, for
them to get exposed to academia,for them to see me pivot, for
them to see me work hard, thatthey'll know that I did this not
for me, and not I should Ishouldn't, excuse me, not just
(24:25):
for me, but also for them.
They get to come to whateverschool I go to, they get to meet
professors and new colleaguesand a new career, whatever
everything that I do, they aregoing to be involved in.
And for that, I am grateful.
I am so grateful to God thatthat layoff happened.
I did not see it that way at thetime.
(24:47):
Okay.
I was pissed, but now I see itas such a huge blessing, and
it's almost like you don't knowwhat you would have done if you
didn't have it.
I'd really just be at GSAcoasting.
That's what I would be doing.
It's coasting, comfortable.
And I put myself in a veryuncomfortable space and I wake
up to that un that discomfort,excuse me.
(25:08):
Yeah, no, I put myself in anuncomfortable space and I wake
up to that discomfort daily, andI push myself further into that
discomfort daily.
And what I mean by that is I'mnot saying that, oh my gosh, I
hate it, it's so uncomfortable,but it's like it's so new, it's
so different, it's so much tolearn, and I could just go apply
(25:29):
for another nine to five, butthat's not what I was called to
do.
I just don't feel that I wascalled to settle in this season.
So I'm going for it.
I thank you all so much.
Please continue to share theepisodes with people, re-listen
to them yourselves.
I've been re-listening to them,they have been so good.
Um, if you guys have anyquestions, if you guys want to
(25:50):
talk, if any of you are goingback to school or in a season of
pivoting, please message me, DMme, email me.
I am here as always.
Thank you all so much foreverything, for the
encouragement, for listening.
What is beautiful is that thelistens on this podcast have not
stopped.
People are still listening tothe podcast.
I'm getting notifications,numbers are still going up.
(26:10):
And that just was anotherreminder of like you, I could
sit back on what I've donealready and know that it's still
content that is um relevant.
It's still content that can bepushed and is evergreen and
evolving.
So I'm really thankful for that.
Yeah, y'all.
I I don't know the next timethat I'll be back to do an
episode.
I'm hoping in a few months I canget back to a little bit of a
(26:32):
steady schedule before schoolstarts next year.
Um, I will definitely keep youall posted and I thank you all
so, so, so much.
I'm having such a hard timeending this because I I miss
doing the podcast, but I knowthat it will be here.
Y'all are here, and I just thankyou guys again.
So, yeah, until next time, let'skeep doing the work to renovate
the soul.
I got laid off, y'all.
Yeah.
Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
something meaningful.
Whether this is your first timehere or you're returning, I am
so glad that you have joined metoday.
I hope that you find somethingthat you can take away and apply
(00:22):
to your life.
Here at Renovating the Soul, webelieve that your soul is your
home, so you should make it aplace you want to live.
And we strive to build astronger foundation for who
you're meant to be.
If you're new here, you probablywould wouldn't notice this.
But if you're returning, you mayhave noticed that I have been a
little absent this year.
Um, that was not the plan.
(00:43):
Yeah, that was not in my plans.
When I said in the intro that Igot laid off, I'm not talking
about like four or five yearsago about to tell y'all an old
story and then give y'all someencouragement.
It is September 2025.
I got laid off in February 2025.
Yes.
So I was a part of thegovernment mass layoffs, and it
(01:07):
was absolutely devastating.
Um, this is my first time everbeing laid off, fired, let go
from a job.
I've been working since I was16, and so it was very
heartbreaking, but it washeartbreaking, not just because
we were getting laid off, butfor several different reasons.
Number one, this was the longestjob that I have had.
(01:30):
I was at GSA for almost fiveyears.
So, yes, I worked for GeneralServices Administration.
Um, I was there for five years.
I had climbed the ladder, so tospeak.
And so I had just gotten what'scalled my warrant to be able to
work on my own leasing projects.
And I guess let me explain whatI used to do for the government.
(01:51):
Um, I was a realty specialist,that's what I came in as.
Got my job back in 2020.
I did the leasing andcontracting for on behalf of
other federal agencies.
And so if you just think of afederal agency, we would
actually do the leases and theconstruction and the maintenance
for the physical buildings thatthey were housed in.
(02:15):
And I really liked it.
It it was a job that I knewnothing about, didn't know it
existed, didn't know what GSAwas, just happened to get this
job, you know, fell in my lap,went through the interview
process, got the job, and reallyloved it, and decided that I was
going to put my best footforward and do the best that I
could.
And I believe that I that I didthat.
(02:36):
And so this was this was thefirst job that I could see
myself at long term becausethere were so many opportunities
within the government.
And I was planning on beingthere for at least 10 years so
that I can get them studentloans paid off.
Okay.
And I was almost there.
I did it would have been fiveyears in November.
(02:56):
And the reason why, I thinkpeople need to understand, like
the reason why the governmentmask layouts were such a big
deal for employees as well,because outside looking in, it
can look like, man, they're justwhining, they're complaining.
But a federal job is supposed tobe one of the most secure jobs
that you can have in America.
It when you get into the federalgovernment, it's very hard to
get let go from the federalgovernment.
(03:17):
Now, that could be a pro and acon.
Okay.
We won't we won't go too muchmore in detail.
Um, but that could be a goodthing or a bad thing for people
like me who are working hard,who are doing their job, it is a
good thing.
Um, but it it's it again, thefederal government, the federal
job is supposed to be one of themost stable jobs.
And so when whispers startedgoing around after the election
(03:40):
was over that there were goingto be these mass layoffs and
these, you know, shutdowns andthese, you know, what reductions
in force, people were telling usbecause I've only been again for
the in the government for fouryears, but you have people 20,
30 years who have been through,you know, so many presidents,
and they were like, it can'thappen this fast, it's not gonna
be so soon.
And let me tell y'all, okay,there's gonna be a lot of little
(04:03):
lessons in this, and I hope youcan pick up on them.
Never say what cannot happen.
The only person that hadconsistently told me that if
things wanted to get done, theycould get done, was my husband.
And he was like, I don't knowwhy you keep accepting that
things can't get done if theywanted to get done.
Because, and he was telling methat because throughout my time
(04:25):
at GSA, I've been trying to makechanges or just give feedback on
certain things, and I kept beingtold, oh, the government's so
slow, they can't do that thatfast, they can't da-da-da-da.
So when this happened, he waslike, See, he wasn't rubbing in
my face, he was just like, See,I told you, like, when things
want to get done, they can't getdone, you know.
And and yes, I learned that.
But the layoff didn't just hurtbecause you know, I had been
(04:47):
there for so long and put in mytime and um, and really I wasn't
there as long as other people,but I was there, I was there a
long time to me and my jobhistory, and I planned to be
there for a long time again,something that I didn't see
anywhere else that I was or justdidn't seem as feasible in other
jobs um that I had been in.
(05:08):
But it also hurt because thebenefits like this job shifted
our family and helped us becauseI got this job right when Quincy
and I made the decision that hewould go back for his master's
in math and I would go back towork.
I was a stay-at-home mom beforeI was at GSA.
And so getting the job at GSAprovided stability, benefits.
(05:32):
And because I was at thefour-year, almost five-year
mark, my leave time changed andI got different kinds of perks
for being there for for, youknow, you know, as you do with
mini jobs when you're there acertain number of years, things
shift.
And so I had really built up myannual leave bucket, my um, what
was the other one?
Sick leave bucket, and you getunlimited sick leave with the
(05:53):
government.
So I had built up those bucketsand um was really excited
because the federal government,you had to take your annual
leave.
You cannot carry it over.
And so I had built up a goodamount and I was like, yes, I'm
gonna have Christmas off, likejust certain little things,
right?
That I was looking forward to,but I was really proud of how I
built up my leave.
Um, and I was able also to dothat because I had two babies
(06:15):
while at GSA.
Um, and the the paid parentalleave was amazing.
And so there were just so manythings.
There were also severalopportunities that I was looking
forward to taking because thiswas gonna be the first year that
I was not pregnant.
So I was really excited that Ididn't have to take three months
off, that I could just go fullthrottle.
And again, I had just gotten mywarrant.
(06:36):
So, what that meant for me wasthat before getting my warrant,
I had to work underneath otherproject leaders.
I'm just gonna use those laymanterms.
And so I had to do things theirway, even if I didn't like it, I
had to do it their way.
Um, it's kind of like aglorified assistant, is what I
started calling it.
And then finally getting mywarrant and becoming a
(06:57):
contracting officer meant that Igot to lead the path.
That meant that when peopleworked under me, I was gonna be
able to um do a better job thanI felt like was done with me or
pick up on the certain thingsthat the people I did learn from
and like um I could take carrythat over into how I treated the
people that I worked with.
I hadn't gotten to that point.
(07:17):
I was only doing solo projects,which I really loved.
Um, and so I was just excitedfor that.
Also at GSA, it's a big federalagency, it's not as large as
some of the others, but it's adecent size.
And I had gone through severaldifferent managers and
personality types, and that wasa struggle because there was
(07:40):
good and there was bad.
Okay, we're not gonna sugarcoat.
There was good and there wasbad.
And so after having to workthrough so many different
personalities, like four, threeor four different managers, and
finally landing to a managerthat I got along with that was
that knew how I like to go afteropportunities.
(08:04):
So she would bring meopportunities that listened to
my frustrations, that kind ofheld the same values and beliefs
as me when it came to our workat GSA, um, was just amazing.
And we didn't even get to worktogether that long.
Like I was so mad.
So when I say that we werefrustrated and crying, it was
like going in phases for the twoweeks because let me actually go
(08:28):
back and explain this a littlebetter.
So we when we found out aboutthe layoffs, we uh had one
week's notice to decide if wewere going to take what was
called like a resignation offeror stay on and deal with like
all of the changes, but riskyour job and risk you know not
(08:51):
having you know almost any payor anything like that, not
having your benefits continue,etc.
etc.
And so they gave us one week todecide that, but then the union
spot on behalf of those of uswho were covered by the union,
which I was, and they were ableto it it paused in the court, so
(09:13):
then there was like an extraweek or maybe just an extra
couple days, I don't fullyremember, but it was about two
weeks.
I know we were like in limbo.
Um, and then once the courtsfound that they could do the
layoffs, then things changed.
So that's what I mean by it wasa very like up and down two
(09:33):
weeks where a lot of people weretrying to figure out what
decision they were gonna make.
And even if you're looking at meand you're going, girl, you were
only there for years, yourhusband's getting his PhD, like,
you know, you you should beokay.
Think about the other peoplethat were there 20, 30, 40 years
who had dedicated their lives tofederal service, who you know,
(09:56):
whose families relied on them,whose spouses could no longer
work, um, people who duringtheir time there were in
marriages and now they weren't,so now they're the sole provider
for themselves and theirchildren.
I mean, just so many differentscenarios.
I knew people who had spouseswho were sick and people who
were the primary breadwinner fortheir family, and to have years,
(10:20):
double-digit years of your work,you know, just kind of thrown to
the side is reallyheartbreaking.
And it was more heartbreaking tosee that for those who had been
there longer than it was formyself.
Um, I did cry for myself forsure, because again, what I was
trying to say before was that inthose two weeks, different
aspects of what I was losingkept coming to my mind.
(10:42):
And so one day it would be, ohman, I was working so hard to
climb this ladder.
Another day it would be dang thebenefits, you know, the medical,
the dental, everything that wastaking care of us as a family.
Like another day it would be therelationships that I built with
my coach.
I had a coach at GSA, and mycoach, shout out to Queen, got
me through my time at GSA.
(11:04):
We didn't just talk about work,we talked about family, we
talked about um friends, we wetalked about everything and the
self-development was like numberone, but we talked about a lot,
and she really got me through alot.
And I've already shared with youall that therapy didn't work for
me.
So when coaching did, that waswhat was my therapy was
coaching.
(11:24):
The format was exactly what Ineeded.
And boy, it is actually one ofthe reasons I started this
podcast was through thosethrough that coaching session,
figuring out that I needed toleverage my passions on the side
and having that conversationwith my coach.
And so just thinking aboutthough, again, those
relationships, those the thingsthat I was gonna be losing, the
(11:45):
um just everything, everythingthat I was excited for.
I did a lot in my short timethere.
I joined a lot of leadershipthings.
I completed a um leadershipprogram with the Oregon Federal
Executive Board, and then fromthat I became the uh acting
deputy administrator for theOregon Federal Executive Board,
(12:07):
got to do a little detail withthem for a few months, which is
a which is a big deal for me.
Um I got to go to the NationalTraining Institute for Blacks in
Government.
It was virtual that I got to goto.
And then after that, we wereasked to put together and put a
presentation.
Myself and one colleague, wewere asked to put together a
presentation about ourexperience.
(12:28):
That opened up the door forother colleagues to go in the
later years to the NTI.
Um, I was on just more recently,was on a training council where
we were actively making thefederal government, making GSA
and leasing specifically moreefficient, bringing it in more
(12:50):
to the times, automating some ofour systems.
We had literally just automatedone of our longer lease
processes, and I was so pumpedfor that because it we we used
to have to deal with pages,pages of um leases.
So that's just you know asnippet of like some of the
things that I was really lookingforward to, and then having to,
you know, realize that man, it'sgone just like that.
(13:12):
Like when we're literally in themiddle of projects or having
projects to discussions, I'mactively talking to less stores,
I'm actively talking to agenciesone day, and then the next day
they're like, Y'all ain't evengonna be here in like a week or
two.
Crazy, crazy, because one of thefirst things they told us was
that we will be going back intothe office full time, and I was
like, Cool, I'm not gonnacomplain about that.
(13:34):
We were only in the office oncea week.
I was like, I'm not gonnacomplain about that because at
least I have a job.
That was the first phase, andthey were like, you know, that
get get ready, we're comingback.
And then it was but psych so,anyways, yes, I got laid off.
So here's where things took aturn for me was that when I was
(13:56):
trying to figure out what I wasgoing to do next, I was sitting
there staring at LinkedIn, I waschatting with Chat GBT, and Chat
GBT is telling me jobs that Icould go into, and I'm like,
nope, nope, nope, nope.
And I'm staring at LinkedIn andI'm like scrolling, scrolling,
scrolling.
I don't want to go into realestate, I don't really want to
(14:19):
do leasing, it's not somethingthat I've been passionate about.
And my thing was I did not wantto climb another ladder or get
used to another set of managersand personalities and people
just to be in the same positionthat I'm in in a few years.
(14:40):
I so desperately wanted to be ina position where I could control
the outcome, someplace thatwould lead me to working on my
own, which is what I've alwayswanted to do.
An industry, a field that hadendless possibilities.
And that was something that Iwas passionate about.
(15:03):
That was in something that Icould do if for the rest of my
life, for the rest of my life,somewhere where I could bring
everything, bring all of me, andnot stifle my growth and not
have to um push certain thingsabout me to the side.
Um, because I came into GSAletting them know that I had
(15:24):
passions outside of GSAs, publicspeaking, I was really creative,
presentations, um, events.
I let them know that like that'sthe creative and the passionate
side about me.
And they were, oh, we're gonnamake room for that, we're gonna
make room for that.
And of course, things happen, itgets busy, but that just didn't
happen for me.
And so I knew that I didn't wantto go into another place where
(15:46):
they're gonna sugarcoat me andbuild me up just to forget that
I was even there, so to speak.
And so for me, the answer liedinto in some place, in something
that I had been teasing forhonestly since I was little, but
for the past couple years when Iwould just get tired of being at
GSA or just not feel thepassion, it was something that I
(16:08):
would often bring to Quincy, andthat is I'm going back to
school.
I wasn't gonna let y'all waittill the end.
No, I am going back to school.
Now, I'm not gonna say whatschool or what field yet.
Well, I don't know what school,but I'm not gonna say what field
just yet because I am the typeof person that does not like to
put things out there just forme.
It has nothing to do with y'all,it has nothing to do with like,
(16:30):
oh, she's trying to bemysterious.
No, just for my own sake, Idon't want to put it out there.
It's it's a big deal that I'meven telling y'all my plan, but
I just I'm like when I telly'all it was really weighing on
me to come and have thisdiscussion and tell you guys
what's been going on, not justfor telling y'all's sake, but to
(16:52):
encourage someone, to helpsomeone, to even talk about
something different that's apart of life, right?
What do you do when you have topivot?
What do you do when things don'tgo according to your five-year,
10-year plan?
That's all a part of part oflife.
That's all a part of invadingthe soul because your soul is
literally a part of your life.
So, yeah, so yeah, I am goingback to school.
(17:13):
Um, what ended up happening waswhen I decided to go back to
school, there's a standardizedtest that I need to take in
order to get into thisparticular graduate school um
field.
Particular graduate schoolfield.
Um, and so the reason why Ididn't pursue this all these
years is because of thestandardized test.
(17:35):
And this time I thought, what doI have to lose?
I have the time, my husband'sworking.
Um, I'll be able to sustain,we'll be able to do the same
because I ended up taking theresignation offer.
And so, in that became, um, theyeither you were able to continue
on pay and benefits for acertain amount of time.
So, because of that, I hadoptions, and so I thought I have
(17:58):
nothing to lose now.
This is actually the momentwhere I do this.
I bought a prep course inFebruary, and it was going
really well.
And I was managing the podcast,and I was still keeping up with
episodes and still puttingthings out, and then in one of
my prep cast classes, we metonce a week.
In one of the classes, I justhit a bump and I was like, Oh my
(18:22):
gosh, I'm I'm this this is why.
This this is why I hadn't donethis, and that's when I could
not split my brain space betweenthe podcast and the test.
And as you guys know, I doeverything for the podcast: the
ideas, the editing, therecording, and I just did not
have the capacity to do both.
(18:43):
And I also felt as though thepodcast would be here.
I it took me, y'all, thatpressure was eating me up.
And I had to let myself know Ihave put out 17 strong episodes
that don't have thousands oflistens yet.
So that means that there arehundreds of thousands of people
that can still stumble uponthese episodes.
I have family that haven't evenlistened to my podcast episodes.
(19:06):
Okay.
So there are so many people thatcan still benefit and listen to
what I have already put out.
The pressure comes in that, youknow, when you're in that
creative world, they're tellingyou that it's like poster bust,
you know, you have to post everytwo weeks, you have to post on
social media every day, yougotta be on TikTok, you gotta,
and so that pressure was justeating me up that I'm like, my
(19:28):
podcast is never gonna grow if Idon't keep up doing this.
But I literally had to thinkabout my future, my children,
the goals that I'm trying toreach.
And the podcast was always ahobby because I had GSA, because
I had a solid foundation, Icould do the podcast.
Well, that foundation was gone,and now I'm trying to build a
new one, and so I had to focuson the foundation and where I
(19:52):
wanted to be, where I was andwhat I was trying to get to.
And so that just naturally meantthat I had to take some time
away from the podcast.
Now, I definitely didn't plan onit being that long, but the test
I'm taking, um, you don't haveto just take it once.
And so I've I've had to I've hadto keep studying throughout from
(20:13):
February up until now,September.
I am still studying and tryingto make sure that I'm getting
the score that I want to getinto the school that I want to
get into, and so that I can getdash of money.
Okay, so that is what I havebeen up to.
I've been talking about goingback to school for a long time,
(20:35):
as I've already mentioned, butto be sitting here this close to
applications and writing essaysand taking this test is like
it's really crazy.
And I'm super excited for thejourney.
I am ultimately thankful that Idid get laid off because it gave
me this opportunity.
I literally had nothing to lose.
(20:57):
I had no more excuses.
I couldn't blame the job, Icouldn't blame the job and the
balance between the job and thekids.
And you know, I just I just hadno more excuses really in my
way, and I am thankful for that.
I am thankful and I am happy andI'm so excited to be pursuing
something that is challenging,that pushes me more than I've
(21:20):
been pushed before, and thatshows me that I've always had
what it took to do this.
I love this podcast, I lovey'all so much, and it was not my
intention to disappear or to notput out episodes.
I literally still have mynotebook and my digital planner
(21:40):
of the episodes that I wanted torelease, but priorities.
And this ended up becoming waymore involved than I originally
anticipated.
And it is way more involvedbecause I still have four kids,
still have my marriage, stillhave so many things to balance.
(22:01):
And it's like drinking from awater hose going back to school
at 34.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
It's just like so, it's like, what did you guys
talk about?
What do you do?
What's the new lingo?
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
What's the it's been really crazy, but it's also been
a lot of fun and reallyexciting.
So I just wanted to thank youall for your patience, for your
love for those of you, the fewof you that I already told I was
going back to school and sharedsome of my um that tug of war
between, you know, doing thepodcast and going back to school
and just a reassurance of like,hey, look, that podcast is gonna
(22:33):
be there.
And it is, and it's notsomething that I am
intentionally neglecting, it issomething that I plan to keep
and come back to.
Like I said, I still have lotsof episodes, and I honestly
cannot wait to share more aboutthis journey to like get on the
other side and sh tell you guysabout just so many of the things
that I've learned, and that'swhat this podcast has always
(22:55):
been about, right?
Is like not just renovating thesoul in the abstract, but
renovating the soul in thepractical.
What happens when you are laidoff and you have to pivot?
What happens when you have tobalance priorities?
How do you respond when lifedeals you cars that you did not
want?
And that's when you show up,right?
(23:16):
You do the work for thosemoments, as I always say.
You do the work in the slowseason so that maybe when that
storm comes or when life startsto happen, you have the tools
and you're equipped.
I'm still learning, I'm stillworking on me and the things
that I need to work on.
But ultimately, I am very, veryexcited about everything that is
(23:39):
to come.
One of the things I'm mostexcited about, and then I'm
gonna jump off, is my kids beingable to see me do this.
There have been moments when Igot really sad because I was
like, if I had only told myselfthat I could do this a long time
ago, I could have done it beforeI got married and had kids, and
I would have had more time, andyou know, I wouldn't have such
(24:02):
bad mom brain and all of thesethings.
But then I started to look at itas it is actually such a
blessing for my children to beable to walk alongside me, for
them to get exposed to academia,for them to see me pivot, for
them to see me work hard, thatthey'll know that I did this not
for me, and not I should Ishouldn't, excuse me, not just
(24:25):
for me, but also for them.
They get to come to whateverschool I go to, they get to meet
professors and new colleaguesand a new career, whatever
everything that I do, they aregoing to be involved in.
And for that, I am grateful.
I am so grateful to God thatthat layoff happened.
I did not see it that way at thetime.
(24:47):
Okay.
I was pissed, but now I see itas such a huge blessing, and
it's almost like you don't knowwhat you would have done if you
didn't have it.
I'd really just be at GSAcoasting.
That's what I would be doing.
It's coasting, comfortable.
And I put myself in a veryuncomfortable space and I wake
up to that un that discomfort,excuse me.
(25:08):
Yeah, no, I put myself in anuncomfortable space and I wake
up to that discomfort daily, andI push myself further into that
discomfort daily.
And what I mean by that is I'mnot saying that, oh my gosh, I
hate it, it's so uncomfortable,but it's like it's so new, it's
so different, it's so much tolearn, and I could just go apply
(25:29):
for another nine to five, butthat's not what I was called to
do.
I just don't feel that I wascalled to settle in this season.
So I'm going for it.
I thank you all so much.
Please continue to share theepisodes with people, re-listen
to them yourselves.
I've been re-listening to them,they have been so good.
Um, if you guys have anyquestions, if you guys want to
(25:50):
talk, if any of you are goingback to school or in a season of
pivoting, please message me, DMme, email me.
I am here as always.
Thank you all so much foreverything, for the
encouragement, for listening.
What is beautiful is that thelistens on this podcast have not
stopped.
People are still listening tothe podcast.
I'm getting notifications,numbers are still going up.
(26:10):
And that just was anotherreminder of like you, I could
sit back on what I've donealready and know that it's still
content that is um relevant.
It's still content that can bepushed and is evergreen and
evolving.
So I'm really thankful for that.
Yeah, y'all.
I I don't know the next timethat I'll be back to do an
episode.
I'm hoping in a few months I canget back to a little bit of a
(26:32):
steady schedule before schoolstarts next year.
Um, I will definitely keep youall posted and I thank you all
so, so, so much.
I'm having such a hard timeending this because I I miss
doing the podcast, but I knowthat it will be here.
Y'all are here, and I just thankyou guys again.
So, yeah, until next time, let'skeep doing the work to renovate
the soul.
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The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.