April 30, 2025 • 48 mins
We all want real, deep, meaningful friendships—but do we actually know what that looks like?
Friendship isn’t just about funny memes, shared interests, or convenient connections—it’s about loyalty, depth, and showing up when it matters. So why do so many of us struggle to find real, lasting friendships?
In this episode, we’re challenging everything you thought you knew about friendship, including:
- Why modern culture has redefined friendship—and not for the better.
- The hard truth about why making friends as an adult feels impossible.
- What history, philosophy, and psychology reveal about deep, meaningful connection.
- The difference between true friendships and surface-level bonds—and why both matter.
- How to stop settling for transactional relationships and build friendships that actually last.
If you’ve ever wondered why friendship feels so complicated, or why you keep outgrowing people, this episode is for you.
It’s time to rethink, redefine, and rebuild the friendships you truly deserve.
Listen now and learn what it really means to be—and have—a true friend.
References:
- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy - Entry on Friendship
- "How To Be a Friend" by Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Forget everything you thought you knew about
friendship.
Because the way we've beentaught to see friendship, the
way it's portrayed in movies, inmusic, and social media, it's
nothing like it was meant to be.
Somewhere along the way, we turnfriendship into a flex, into
something we collect, somethingwe showcase.
(00:22):
But real friendship, it wasnever about clout.
It was never about networking.
It was never about who makes youlook good.
Friendship was supposed to beabout connection, about choosing
someone, not because of whatthey can do for you, but simply
because you care about theirwell-being.
(00:42):
And yet, we live in a worldwhere friendship has become
shallow, performative, andtransactional.
So let's strip all that away andget to the truth.
Because real friendship isn'twhat you think it is.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
something meaningful.
So clearly, we are going to betalking about friendship.
(01:07):
And before we talk about how tobuild meaningful friendships, we
have to address an elephant inthe room.
We have to address why so manyof us feel disconnected from
friendships in the first place.
It's the loneliness epidemic.
And we have to start by beingcompletely honest.
(01:27):
People do not like talking aboutloneliness.
It's a hard subject.
It doesn't feel good to have tosay that you're lonely.
Because admitting you're lonelyfeels like admitting that you
failed at something as basic asconnection, something that we
were made for.
But here's the thing (01:44):
loneliness isn't just a personal struggle,
it's a cultural one.
We live in a time where we'remore connected than ever.
Yet somehow loneliness is at anall-time high.
You don't believe me?
Like, let's let's talk aboutsome of these things, these
stats and some observations isthat studies show that
loneliness is as deadly assmoking 15 cigarettes a day.
(02:08):
It literally can destroy yourhealth.
We live in the most digitallyconnected era, yet depression,
anxiety, and social isolationare skyrocketing.
Social media is tricking us intothinking that we have community,
but most of those relationshipsare shallow.
(02:28):
You ever call your person likemy social media friend?
You never met them in person.
That's not really a your friend.
Being in a crowded room doesn'tmean you aren't lonely.
Loneliness is about depth, notproximity.
We can be at parties andfunctions and be hosting even in
(02:49):
our own homes and still belonely.
But let's get into why.
Because lonely isn't just aboutnot having people around.
It's deeper than that.
So some of the reasons whypeople feel lonely even when
they're surrounded by otherpeople is the lack of depth in
relationships, where you'rehaving shallow conversations,
(03:10):
surface-level connections, noreal vulnerability in these
relationships.
There's also the disconnectionfrom yourself, where some people
are lonely because they don'tknow themselves.
There's also, and I've talkedabout this being my struggle
before, is the fear of rejectionthat, you know, if you're like
(03:31):
me, you crave connection, butyou avoid it out of fear of
being hurt or misunderstood.
And I know many of us, I'm sure,have experienced past betrayal
or trauma.
If you've been burned before,hurt before, then you hesitate
to trust again.
They're just gonna treat me thesame way.
And then there's some of us, wewe self-isolate without even
(03:54):
realizing it, you know, claimingthat we're protecting our peace,
but we end up pushing peopleaway completely.
And y'all, most people don'teven realize how lonely they are
because they've gotten so usedto it.
They scroll, we scroll todistract ourselves, we surround
ourselves with people to avoidsitting in our own silence.
(04:17):
But deep down, something ismissing, something that we can't
quite name.
And that's where we start.
Loneliness isn't just aboutbeing alone, it's about feeling
unknown, feeling like no onetruly sees you.
And that's why deep friendshipis so important because real
connection breaks the illusionthat we're alone in our
(04:40):
experiences.
And personally, I have feltlonely.
I would say I had felt lonelyfor a long time.
And in the description, I'mgonna share my old blog from
like 10 years ago.
And my first entry in that blogis called loneliness.
(05:02):
I don't remember the full title,but I I think it, I think I just
titled it loneliness.
And I talked about exactly thishow as a kid, you know, middle
school, high school years, Ifelt especially lonely.
Like no one understood me, likeno one got me.
You know, being a teenage girland the only girl in my house,
(05:24):
um, you know, amongst mybrothers and my my mom and dad,
but the only girl, you know,child, I felt particularly
alone.
And I've always been the personwho called everyone friend and
best friend because I've longedfor those connections.
Um, I am that person that hadlike five or six best friends,
(05:46):
and it wasn't until later whenpeople be like, girl, what?
How do you have that many bestfriends?
Um, that I really started to belike, maybe I should be careful,
like maybe I should be carefulabout how, you know, like
calling people friends.
Like maybe I should think aboutthat.
But even now that I don't feel Idon't feel as lonely now in my
(06:10):
30s because I am married to mybest friend, so that feels
really good.
But friendships outside of that,I have been in a dry season of
friendship, especially when Istarted to, from my own personal
knowledge, do a deep dive onwhat friendship really is.
(06:31):
Because I thought I had an ideaof it, I thought that I knew
what it meant, I thought that Iwas striving for those things,
and in many ways I was.
In some ways, I wasn't.
In some ways, I had thesuperficial ideas and you know,
the things that I've alreadytalked about, the culture, what
they tell you friendship issupposed to be and what it's
supposed to look like.
(06:53):
But when I also kept findingmyself on the other end of
friendships that kept crumbling,I had to start really evaluating
are these really friendships?
Because what's the foundation ofthem?
It can't be strong if like onething happens and we can't
really talk about it.
And that's what I long for.
And so I'm saying that just tosay that I know what it feels
(07:15):
like to be in a dry season offriendship, to have to look
around and realize that um youdon't have the kind of
friendships that you want orneed.
I've been there, I am there, andit's not just about being alone,
as I said, it's about feelingunseen, like there's no one who
(07:36):
truly knows you.
Um and it wasn't until I wentthrough that season, and as I'm
going through this season, Ihave I am coping better with it
when I first had to realize thatI really struggled.
But as I'm going through thisseason, I have realized that
deep friendships, they don'tjust appear.
(07:56):
It's not about going to oneparty or one event and clicking
with someone and exchanging textmessages and going to brunch and
going to lunch and going out andthinking that that's deep
friendship.
And deep friendship, they it hasto be built.
And sometimes you have to gothrough the waiting season
before the right ones come.
And so, for anyone like me,sitting in this moment, knowing
(08:20):
that you don't have the deepconnections that you desire and
have been desiring for a longtime, I hope that you will sit
in anticipation of either thing,of the potential that you can
find the friendships that youwant.
But part of me as an adult alsohas to accept the fact and the
(08:44):
reality that that may nevercome.
That the deep friendship thatI've been longing for and
looking for may not come.
And that's okay too.
But that's not the point oftoday, right?
Today we're talking about whatfriendship really is, how deep,
how real, how rare friendshipis.
(09:05):
And I think that's why this notknowing this keeps so many of us
plagued in the idea that makingfriends is so hard.
No, making surface level friendsis not hard, but making deep
friends is not hard in the sensethat it's impossible.
It's hard in the sense that ittakes work.
So let's talk more about how dowe get here?
(09:27):
How did friendships go fromsomething deeply meaningful to
something so shallow?
And we have to look at ourpresent times and say, you know,
you know, friendship used to beabout connection, but now it's
about convenience.
It's about clout, as I've said.
It's about who looks good nextto you rather than who actually
(09:50):
stands beside you when lifefalls apart.
And our culture has had a way ofdistorting friendship in that,
you know, TV and movies, theyshow friendship is fun and
effortless and always exciting.
They never show the work.
And when they do show what Ithink they would presume is
(10:11):
work, it's often a bit shallowor it's a bit easy, right?
I I envy the shows when they um,you know, you have that friend
who can give a monologue andthey still stay friends.
Like uh there was a movie calledUm The Supremes.
It's not about the Supremes, thesenior group, but it's a it's
(10:32):
called The Supremes.
I cannot remember the full titleof it.
I want to say it's a lifetime orVH1 movie, but it's on Hulu.
I know that for sure.
And the ending scene, one of thefriends, she has cancer, and the
end one of the last scenes, theyshe, I mean, she says some stuff
she ain't told her friends inyears.
Like she lays them out in a wayI've not seen in a movie.
(10:54):
And she she and anyways, I getenvious and and jealous.
I should say jealous more thanenvious.
Um, I do I did I get jealous ofthose kind of monologues and
conversations because in reallife, trying to work with
somebody like trying to work ona friendship, trying to hold
someone accountable, trying tohave those deep conversations
(11:17):
and really do the work and workthrough conflict is not that
easy.
People, anyways, I don't want toget too ahead of myself, but um
we'll just I'll leave thatthere.
So I'm you know, to make surewe're all on the same page.
I'm talking about how ourculture has distorted
friendships.
So we started with TVs andmovies, you know.
Many of us are on social media,and friends are now an
(11:39):
aesthetic.
If they don't fit your brand,they don't fit your life.
It's kind of how it is.
Um, we also have this, which I'mgonna push against this.
I'm gonna push against this forthe culture.
Um, this protect your peacemindset.
I think that it has become anexcuse to cut off anyone who
(12:02):
challenges, challenges us,excuse me.
That you know you are wrong andsomeone tries to say you're
wrong, you cut them off, andit's not I had to protect my
peace because oh oh girl, I hadto protect my peace because he
said and I had to.
I think we've distorted that alot.
Um, and then another examplewould be instant gratification
(12:24):
that if someone isn'timmediately fun, exciting, or
useful, we don't invest.
We want the the quick, like Ijust said, we want the instant
gratification.
We want that instant goodfeeling, we want those good
vibes.
How many times they are youbringing the vibes?
Do you have the vibes?
Like, what if someone what ifwho someone is becomes more
(12:51):
apparent when you get to knowthem?
You know, we write people off sofast without ever wondering to
ourselves, is there is there isthere something I'm missing?
Like, is there more to this?
And we're in an era where themoment a friendship requires
(13:13):
work, the moment someone holdsus accountable, the moment
things get hard, people arequick to say, like I said, this
is disrupting my peace, and theyjust simply walk away.
But can we be real?
Are we protecting our peace orare we protecting our ego?
Because let's not pretend thatmost people aren't cutting off
(13:35):
toxic friendships, like theywill have you to believe.
No, they're cutting offfriendships that require
emotional labor, friendshipsthat challenge them, friendships
that hold a mirror up and say,Hey, you were wrong for that.
And instead of learning how tonavigate hard conversations,
people just walk away thinkingthey're healed, but really
(13:57):
they're just avoiding growth.
And here are some hard truths.
Growth is uncomfortable.
Growth is hard.
If you have been listening tothis podcast for a while, then
you know that we talk about thatall the time.
I never once try to tell y'allthat growth is easy.
And if we, if you run from everyuncomfortable situation, if you
(14:21):
run from every uncomfortablefriendship, then you'll never
have a real one.
The same way that if we run fromgrowth, we'll never have a real
life.
Life is all about growth.
We talk about that in in theroots episode.
We can see it in nature.
Growth is a part of life.
Another hard truth is thatfriendships aren't supposed to
(14:43):
be drama-free all the time.
This is something that I wishsomeone would have told me is
that conflict isn't toxic.
It's how you handle it thatdetermines whether the
friendship is toxic.
And for a girl like me whostruggled with conflict and
conflict resolutions, who doesnot stick up for herself, who is
(15:04):
a people pleaser, and just allthese like issues, as you know,
especially in high school,really struggling to find my
voice and speak up for myself,it always felt like conflict was
a bad thing.
But it's not, it's not toxic,it's how you handle it.
(15:24):
And last little hard truth inthis section is that cutting off
people does not mean you'rehealed.
It just means you won't haveanyone left to call when you
actually need a friend.
So let's be honest.
Like, let's ask ourselves againare we protecting our peace?
(15:45):
Or are we just making sure wenever have to confront our own
flaws?
This is also why marriage ishard for a lot of people.
When you get married, it is likehaving a mirror next to you all
the time because this is someonewho sees you behind closed doors
in your most vulnerable,vulnerable moments, and
(16:06):
sometimes that is souncomfortable for people that
they'd rather get out than stayin it.
Sometimes and I would probablysay most times it's not about
the other person, it's aboutthemselves.
But we I want to stick on tomarriage, but I just I mean,
sorry, I want to stick on tofriendship, but I just wanted to
put that there.
So if all of this likesuperficial, these superficial
(16:29):
things, these cultural things iswhat we've been taught about
friendship, then we have to talkabout what friendship was
actually meant to be.
So we've broken down like why somany of us are lonely, that
feeling of disconnection, thatstruggle within, not feeling
understood.
We've exposed how friendship hasbecome shallow and performative.
(16:49):
But again, if that's not whatfriendship is, then we have to
talk about what was it meant tobe.
So, as I like to do, we're gonnatake it back to ancient wisdom.
And I I did this on purpose.
This again, this was my ownpersonal journey.
I wanted to know what did thephilosophers, what even does
(17:11):
even the Bible, which we'regonna talk about later, because
there's beautiful writings inthe Bible, you know, people
Christian or not use the Bible,but I wanted to go back and I
wanted to look at what did theysay about friendship before
social media, before you knowpolitics in the way that we have
it now, before popularitycontest and all the things,
(17:33):
right?
Like I wanted to see what wasfriendship supposed to be, what
what is it, what were thephilosophers wrestling between
and wrestling with?
And I'm gonna put a resource inthe um about two resources.
There's a book that I read onfriendship, and there is an
article that I read onfriendship, and the article is a
philosophical article where theytell you different ideas, and so
(17:57):
again, it's one of those thingswhere you look at the
conclusions of these arguments,and then uh they're not really
telling you what you have tothink, you have to form your own
opinions and and I would sayyour own idea of what friendship
is based upon the research andthe facts, right?
Um, but I'm gonna put those tworesources in there so you can do
your own studying and readingand really soak in uh just the I
(18:22):
I know it's not pure, but that'show I see it.
It's just like the untaintedidea of friendship.
So let's get into it again.
We're gonna take it back to someancient wisdom wisdom.
So, first of all, friendship'snot a new idea.
That's the first thing we wehave to say.
People have been wrestling withthis meaning for centuries, and
one of the most insightfulbreakdowns of friendship comes
(18:42):
from Aristotle.
He believed that there werethree kinds of friendship, and
when you hear them, you mightstart to see where your
friendships fall.
So the first one is friendshipof utility.
This is based on mutualbenefits, so work connections,
collaborations.
These friendships serve apurpose, and once that purpose
is gone, so is the connection.
(19:03):
Second is friendship ofpleasure.
This is based on enjoying eachother's company, this is party
friends, hobby friends, youknow, like your soccer team or
your tennis friends or your, youknow, Saturday night friends,
your brunch friends.
These friendships thrive onshared interest and fun
experiences, but they often fadewhen life changes, when you're
(19:23):
no longer interested in a thing,or when, you know, let's say,
you know, you had your footballbuddy, and then when you get
injured in football because youno longer can because you no
longer can play and you alldon't share that interest, and
that friendship fades becauselife has changed for you, but
for them it hasn't.
And so that would be friendshipof pleasure, friendship of
(19:44):
virtue.
This is based on deep mutualrespect, accountability, and
growth.
These are the friendships thatwithstand time and trials
because they are rooted ingenuine care for each other's
well-being, not justcircumstances or convenience.
And if you guessed it, that isthe friendship, the type of
friendship that we are talkingabout.
That is the type of friendshipthat we're striving for.
(20:06):
And I think it's important tonote here that if you want to
know the quality of yourcharacter, look at the people
closest to you.
Our friendships are not random,they are reflections.
We naturally attract the kindsof people who align with our
current values, our habits, andour mindset.
So before we can even talk aboutdeep friendships, we have to
(20:29):
ask, what do our currentfriendships say about us?
And if you have to pause it, ifyou have to take a second to
really think about that, pleasedo it and come back.
And the truth is, friendshipsdon't just reflect who we are,
they shape who we become.
Some of us have been stunted inour own growth because we keep
(20:50):
choosing friends who reinforceour worst traits instead of
sharpening our best ones.
And on that flip side, the rightfriendships can be the thing
that pushed us into our nextlevel of growth.
As we've talked about inprevious episodes, friendships,
family relationships, um, faithrelationships, that like
(21:13):
connections, no matter wherethey are, are so essential to
our being, to our being on thisearth, to our thriving, to our,
you know, being enabled andbeing stunted and held back.
I mean, it is so a part of whowe are, we can't escape it.
And this is why Aristotle saidthat virtuous friendships, the
(21:34):
deepest kinds of friendships,are built on character.
Because real friends don't justcelebrate you where you are,
they challenge you to grow intowho you're meant to be.
Here's the thing most peopledon't move beyond those first
two the friendship of utilityand the friendship of pleasure.
(21:57):
Not because they don't want to,not because we don't want.
To, but because they don't evenrealize there's more.
No one teaches us how tocultivate friendships of depth.
We fall into friendships becauseof shared spaces, school, work,
hobbies, but we're rarely taughthow to be intentional about
building friendships that gobeyond that.
(22:18):
And if you're realizing now thatmost of your friendships fall
into the first two categories,please give yourself grace.
You can't build something deeperif you didn't even know it
existed.
But if you're listening to thisepisode, now that you do, you
have the power to change it.
So ask yourself (22:39):
are your friendships built on benefits or
on fun?
Or are they built on somethingdeeper?
And more importantly, how canyou start building the kind of
friendships that last?
And if this is truly whatfriendship was meant to be, then
why are so few of usexperiencing it?
(23:01):
Everybody wants deepfriendships.
And and to be to be fair andsafe, I'll say most of us want
deep friendships until werealize what it takes to build
one.
We love the idea of friendshipthat's always easy and fun and
uplifting, but real friendships,the ones that last, they cost us
(23:23):
something.
They take sacrifice, they takecommitment, and sometimes they
even take pain.
The cost of real friendship.
Let's talk about this.
I'm gonna make a few pointshere.
Number one, time.
You can't build deep friendshipwithout showing up consistently.
(23:43):
Number two, vulnerability.
Surface level connections areeasy.
Just saying hi to somebody at aparty, connecting with someone
really quick, like I said, aquick brunch or a lunch or a
breakfast, whatever it is, youknow, going out to eat, hanging
out on a holiday.
Those are easy.
But letting someone truly seeyou, that's hard.
(24:06):
Number three, accountability.
Some of y'all don't, some ofy'all don't like that.
Some of us don't like thataccountability word.
Not me, but some of some of somepeople out there don't like the
idea of accountability.
And we see this all the time.
Um, but a real friend is notjust someone who's gonna hype
you up, they're gonna call youout.
(24:26):
Are you willing to hear thetruth?
And then number four, emotionallabor, which I know is hard, and
I know a lot of us make anexcuse for this as well because
we say, Well, I'm already goingthrough enough.
But you have to be willing to gothrough the emotional labor
because there will bemisunderstandings, hard
(24:47):
conversations, and moments oftension.
But are you willing to workthrough them instead of just
walking away?
This is why so many people stayin those surface-level
friendships, because deepfriendships require something
most people aren't willing togive discomfort, growth, the
(25:07):
willingness to push through hardmoments instead of running from
them.
And this is why having a lot offriends is almost impossible.
And of course, this is metalking to the little girl in
me.
This is me telling that girl inhigh school that, like, all
these people are not your bestfriends.
(25:28):
I I wish that I would have knownthat that truthfully you will
likely only have one, maybe twoor three people in your lifetime
who truly know you at thisdeeper, more intentional level,
and that's okay because that'show I think it was intended to
be.
(25:49):
And I need you to hear me when Isay this.
I'm gonna I'm gonna um hit y'allreal hard with grace because I
don't want you to leave thisepisode feeling down and
hopeless.
Yes, process, yes, think aboutit.
But please, if you are sittinghere and you're realizing that
you don't have a singlefriendship that falls into these
(26:11):
categories of deep, meaningful,true connection, I know how
painful it is.
Yes, it's heartbreaking, yes,it's lonely, but it's also a
beautiful wake-up call.
As I mentioned, you don't haveto just stay stuck anymore, you
get to do something about it,you get to be intentional about
(26:32):
building it.
And trust me when I say thatit's worth the cost.
If my only deep friendship iswith my husband, with Quincy,
that's okay.
At least I have one person whoknows me so well, one person who
(26:53):
loves me and is in thisrelationship and in this
friendship because he caresabout me and I him, and not ten
people trying to use me, or tenpeople who really don't know me
and don't care.
I will take one over the many.
And some of us have prayed fordeep friendships.
(27:15):
But what happens when the answerto that prayer shows up as a
friend who challenges you?
A friend who doesn't just tellyou what you want to hear, but a
friend who holds you accountablebecause that's the cost.
And if you're not ready to payit, then you're not ready for
true friendship, and that's okaytoo.
(27:38):
You have to be honest withyourself about where you are and
what you're willing to give.
And if real friendship is thiscostly, then don't wonder why so
many people struggle to find it.
So let's talk about how to buildthe kind of friendships that
last.
Hopefully, and maybe by nowyou're realizing that true
(28:00):
friendship isn't about findingthe right people, it's about
building real connection withthe right foundation.
First, starting with the rightfoundation in yourself.
And if we want friendships thatlast, then we must be willing to
build them the right way.
And strong friendships are builton several things, but I want to
(28:21):
talk about just a few here.
Intentionality, friendshipsdon't maintain themselves.
If you don't nurture them, theydie.
Also, I'm just saying next,mutual effort.
I love this friendship isn't 5050.
(28:44):
It's 100-100 because both peoplemust invest.
This is not about halfsies, thisis not about shared like
responsibility.
This is about I have 100%responsible, I'm 100%
responsibility, and you have100% responsibility that we both
are showing up, and that showingup is based on our care, like
(29:07):
your care, our care for eachother.
Not from what I can get fromyou, not from what I can gain,
not from how pretty you are, notfrom how popular you are, but
because I care about you, yourwell-being.
As I write, build thefoundation, get to know who you
are.
Um, next is honestcommunication.
You cannot have deep connectionwithout real conversations,
(29:28):
period.
The next is loyalty throughseasons.
A strong friendship can weatherchange if both people are
committed, given that 100-100,that mutual effort.
And not every friendship has tobe deep.
I want to make this clear.
Some friendships aresituational, but they are built
(29:50):
on fun, work, or just commoninterests, and that's okay.
But if you're looking for deep,lasting friendships, those must
be built with intention.
So it's another thing that youcan ask yourself: have I been
waiting for the perfect friendto appear, or have I been
investing in the people alreadyin my life?
(30:14):
And some of you, if you'rerealizing that your friendships
aren't as deep as you want themto be, or maybe you don't have
any friendships at all, then youmight also be asking, where do I
even start?
Like Alexandria, I hear you.
You didn't open up this can ofworms, you didn't debunk what I
what I thought I knew aboutfriendship.
Where do I even start?
(30:35):
And the answer, sorry, theanswer is simple, but it's not
easy, right?
We already know thateverything's gonna take work,
right?
But here's some places where youcan start.
Start by being the kind offriend you're looking for.
In all of our relationships,everything we do in life will
always start with us.
It starts first with your owncharacter, your own priorities.
(30:59):
What are you looking for inlife?
Are you just looking for afriend who is fun?
Or if you want something deeper,are you willing to give
something deeper?
Are you willing to go throughthe conflict, the hard
conversations?
Are you able to take thecriticism?
And if you know that you're notnow, would you be willing to do
that alongside someone who youknew cared about you?
(31:19):
So you start by being the kindof friend that you're looking
for.
If you want a friend who checksin on you, start checking in on
people.
If you want a friend who listensdeeply, why don't you start
listening more?
If you want a friend who wasloyal, why don't you show up
with loyalty first?
Friendships are reflections, asI've already said.
And so if you want deep,meaningful friendships, you have
(31:40):
to embody that first.
Next, and I've hinted at this,you start with the people
already in your life.
Instead of looking for newfriendships and trying to go out
and you know collect morepeople, why don't you ask, who
in my life could I invest inmore?
Who do I already have historywith, but haven't deepened the
connection?
(32:00):
You don't always need newfriends.
Sometimes you just need to godeeper with the right people.
You can also start by makingsmall intentional efforts.
Send a text, plan a coffeemeetup, ask someone how they're
really doing and mean it.
And as much as I I don't thinkI've done this on the podcast,
(32:24):
but as much as I grumble aboutmy time in Oregon and how much
I've not enjoyed it, one of thethings that being here taught me
and going through like differentjobs and courses and just and
like trainings, one of thethings that they do very well
here is that idea of not justasking someone how they're doing
(32:47):
just to hear the response.
But if you're going to asksomeone how they're really
doing, you need to be ready forthat response, whether it's good
or whether it's bad.
And I started doing this topeople.
When someone would ask me how Iwas doing, and if I wasn't doing
good, I'd be like, I'm not doinggood or whatever.
And you could see the differencebetween the people who are
(33:07):
really asking because they trulycared about you versus the
people who were only askingbecause it was just a question
to them, just a formality tothem.
And so when when I when I'msaying that you can ask someone
how they're really doing, right?
We don't just take the servicelevel answer, good.
What does good mean?
What is going on in your life?
And you really listen and youmean it and you're there.
(33:30):
Um, some other small intentionalefforts you can make is that you
know, can be consistent.
Relationships aren't built.
Um, sorry, relationships arebuilt in these small, consistent
moments, not grand gestures.
Um, and friendship isn't aboutone big deep conversation, which
(33:50):
I have had so much in myfriendships where we had that
one big heart to heart, and youfeel like now we're friends
again.
I mean, not again, but like nowwe're really friends because
we've had this deep heart toheart.
Um, but it's not just one bigconversation, it's built in the
small everyday moments.
Start small, start now.
(34:12):
And for the friendships that Ihave that are still growing and
evolving, I can say that I'llshout out one of my friends,
Lisa.
You know, we have our boys oflike the same age, and we each
have we both have boys.
So, and I think they're I thinkthey're the same, like like we
were pregnant at the same timewith our first, we were closely
(34:33):
pregnant with our second, andthen we were not too far apart
with our third, and then I wenton and had a fourth, and she was
like, nah, I'm calling it quits.
And Lisa and I met in a hairstore, not a hair store, sorry,
we met at the hair salon, we hadthe same hairdresser, and our
hairdresser connected us, andthat friendship, you know,
started out, you know, where wejust we went to lunch and we had
motherhood and connection.
(34:54):
But over the years that I'veknown Lisa, let's see, oh my
gosh, our kids are six, gonna beseven this year.
So I've known Lisa for oh mygoodness, seven or eight years,
because I don't remember whatyear we met, if we met close to
the end of our pregnancies, butum, you know, our conversations,
we can talk about work, right?
We can move out of motherhood,we can talk about, you know,
getting to the heart of things,right?
(35:15):
Like I feel like if Lisa sayssomething, I can correct her,
right?
She can correct me.
And I love Lisa because she's sodifferent than me in a lot of
ways, where she shows up in aspecial and meaningful way.
And I feel like I'm that friendwho I really sit, I really
listen, I really remember.
That is very important for me.
I really remember certaindetails and things about a
(35:37):
person.
And so I'm just using that as anexample because as I'm saying
this, right?
These small intentional efforts,it starts just like that, where
your conversations may startbased on your simple
commonalities of being pregnantor having children or being at
the same job or having the sameinterests, same hobbies.
Um, and then as time goes andyou get to learn this person's
(36:00):
character and they get to seeyou, and you do decide that this
is a friendship that I want toinvest in, you build it with
these small conversations andcheck-ins, and and those things
can evolve, right?
Where sometimes we're having aconversation throughout the day,
and then other times we're justdoing simple check-ins because
we're both moms and wives andand and working full time and
(36:20):
all the other things that comewith it.
Um, and so start small, startnow.
Most people are waiting for deepfriendships to just happen.
But deep friendships, they don'tjust happen, they are built,
they take time, they takeeffort, and they require you to
show up, even when it'sinconvenient.
(36:42):
One of the greatest examples ofdeep lasting friendship, we see
it in the Bible.
David and Jonathan.
I actually got the idea to sharethis story from hearing it again
in my son's Bible course.
And I just love this story ofDavid and Jonathan.
Um, we've already talked aboutwhat real friendship is, we've
(37:05):
talked about how to build it,but sometimes the best way to
understand something is to, youknow, that isn't to define it,
but to see it in action.
And so here we have David andJonathan, and what made their
friendship so different is thatthere was loyalty over status.
Um, Jonathan was the son, and ifyou're not familiar with this,
(37:27):
you can find the story in theBible.
Um, but Jonathan was an in 1stKings and 2nd Kings, I believe.
But Jonathan was the son of KingSaul and the rightful heir to
the throne, yet he chose loyaltyto David over his own
birthright.
And if you're not familiar withthe story, then I'll give just a
(37:48):
little more context that Saulwas the king, and there was a
I'm gonna put this in just myown modern terms.
Um Saul's reign was coming to anend, and Saul was supposed to
give it to David, but insteadSaul hated David, and David was
(38:10):
running from Saul, even thoughhe couldn't understand why Saul
wanted to kill him.
And Jonathan was the son of KingSaul, and he like didn't follow
in his dad's footsteps to try totake over the throne.
He chose loyalty to Davidbecause he believed that David
was meant to be the next king,which is what was said or
prophesied.
(38:31):
Um, so again, that there wasloyalty over status, and then in
their relationship, there wasprotection and sacrifice that
when King Saul wanted to killDavid, Jonathan risked his own
life to protect him.
And then there was celebration,not competition.
Jonathan did not see David as athreat, he saw him as a brother.
And there was this commitmentthrough hardship that even when
(38:53):
David had to flee, theirfriendship didn't waver.
And for many of us, or I shouldsay, I really don't know how
many people are experiencingthis, but I would say for some
of us who went to college in adifferent state than where we
lived, or you know, for us whohave formed those friendships in
college or in high school or incertain places, and then you're
(39:16):
separated by distance and time,it can feel really hard, even
being in the same state aspeople.
Like I mentioned, my friendLisa, we don't see each other
all the time because she's youknow about 45 minutes an hour
from me, which is not that long,so don't y'all judge us, but you
know, in between that though,you know, we're working
full-time, we have our childrenagain, we're wives, we're trying
(39:39):
to do all the things for ourhouseholds, you know, and all
these things, right?
And so another thing about youknow, Jonathan and David's
friendship that I want toencourage you all about is that
friendship can survive time anddistance.
And Jonathan and David'sfriendship, it endured despite
separation, danger, and time.
And some of our bestfriendships, y'all, we will not
(40:01):
be the ones where we see eachother every day.
It'll be the ones that neverchange, no matter how much time
or distance passes.
And I feel like for for thoselistening, for people in my
generation, a lot of usexperience that that some of the
people that we have cherishedthe most and become and we're
(40:22):
closest to at once in a season.
There's now that distance intime.
But again, real friendships cancan make it through those.
And so to wrap up this littlepart, like Jonathan had every
reason to turn on David power,position, family expectations,
okay?
Who's going against theirfamily, right?
But he didn't.
(40:43):
Because true friendship is notabout what's convenient, it's
about what's right.
And if you want to know whattrue friendship looks like, ask
yourself do the people aroundyou protect you even when it's
costing them something?
Do they celebrate you even whenyou're winning in areas where
they're struggling?
(41:03):
Do they stick with you even whenlife gets messy?
Y'all, those are loadedquestions.
I hope that you would write themdown, pause, take a moment,
because even for me, thatquestion, do they celebrate you
even when you're winning inareas where they're struggling?
It just makes me stop in mytracks because I feel like so
(41:23):
many of my friendships have beenbased on, have not had that
element.
Let's just say it like that.
So let's bring this full circle.
What are you going to do withthis?
We started this episode bydismantling everything we've
been taught about friendship.
Now I'll leave you with this.
(41:44):
Friendship was never meant to bea transaction, it was meant to
be a covenant, a bond, acommitment.
And if your friendships aren'tbuilt on that, then it's time to
start rethinking who you letinto your life and who you
choose to show up for.
We live in a culture wherepeople think a good friend is
just someone who hypes you upand makes you feel good.
(42:07):
But the Bible literally says,and it's a proverb, I want y'all
to hear this wounds from afriend can be trusted, but an
enemy multiplies kisses.
Meaning that a real friend willtell you the truth even when
it's hurt, sorry, even when ithurts.
(42:27):
And that's better.
That you can trust your friendwho is willing to tell you the
truth even when it hurts.
But the people who only flatteryou, those might be your biggest
threat.
Those enablers in our life, aswe talked about before, those
are probably the people you wantto steer away from.
(42:49):
Think about that.
The ones who always agree withyou, the ones who never
challenge you, the ones who onlytell you what you want to hear,
might not be your friends atall.
The ones who enable you in yourmess and your drama and your
trauma and never encourage youand push you to grow, who almost
(43:10):
seem who almost seemuncomfortable when you start to
grow, they may not be yourfriends at all.
They might just be keeping youcomfortable.
And sometimes, most times,that's more dangerous than an
enemy.
Y'all, real friendships aren'tjust about the good times.
They're about standing in thefire with each other.
(43:32):
They're about sharpening,refining, and making each other
better.
So as you move forward afterthis episode, read that book,
read that episode.
I mean, sorry, read thatepisode, read that book and read
that article and some otherresources, right?
There's lots out there.
I recommend the two that I hadbecause it's based on again the
philosophy of friendship and notjust all of these again, you
(43:55):
know, new age ideas.
But as you're doing that and asyou're moving forward, I want
you to ask.
Yourself, am I just looking forpeople to fill space in my life?
Or am I willing to build thekind of friendships that mean
something?
Because at the end of the day,friendship isn't about who's
around when life is fun, it'sabout who's still standing when
(44:16):
everything falls apart.
But before you sit with theweight of all this, because I
know this was probably a littleheavy, maybe a little sad, and
that's okay.
We've already talked aboutemotions.
Lean into whatever feelingsyou're having.
But I want to remind you andencourage you that real
friendships do exist.
(44:37):
It might take time, it mighttake intentionality, it might
take a season of being alonebefore the right people come,
but it's worth it.
You are not too much, you arenot too late, and you are not
alone.
The right friendships aren'tjust found, they're built.
So what kind of foundation areyou laying?
(44:58):
And I hope that that'sencouraging for us.
If we stop seeing things as ahindrance and we start seeing
things as a beautiful blessingand as an opportunity, it will
shift our mindset about how weapproach them.
What am I saying?
If we stop seeing friendships orlack thereof as a sad thing and
(45:19):
a heartbreaking thing, andinternalizing it as that means
I'm not good enough and I don'thave worth, and we instead see
friendship how it's meant to beas an opportunity to work hard
and build a relationship andinvest simply because I care
about the person, that is such abeautiful thing and an
opportunity to help me grow as aperson, right?
(45:44):
In my own character, but to besomeone who can see the best in
people and be there for someoneand be the challenge they need,
but to also get that again,knowing that it's not based on
my makeup palette, knowing thatit's not based on my new shoes,
knowing that it's not based onthe position I have, me being
(46:05):
their sub uh superior, me havingsomething that they want.
It's not about my money, mystatus, it's not about how funny
I am, it's not about me beingable to sing, that it's not
about any of these things, butit's simply because they care
about my well-being and I tothem.
So if this episode hit home foryou, I challenge you, reach out
(46:27):
to one person today, not forsmall talk, not for a favor, but
just to check in, just to be afriend.
Because deep friendships don'tjust happen, they're built one
moment at a time.
And if you want to go deeper,then I want to invite you to
(46:48):
join my email list.
You can go torenovatingtheul.com and sign up.
I do a journal prompt for almostevery episode, and I do have a
journal prompt for this episode.
So if you want that journalprompt and you want to go
deeper, please sign up for theemail list.
If you want the prompt, likeright away, when you sign up
(47:09):
from to the email list and youget the email, just email me and
say, Could you give me thejournal prompt for the
friendship episode?
I want us to go deeper on thistogether.
I want us to sit with this.
I don't want us to run from thehard things.
I want us to lean into the hardthings, lean into the sadness,
lean into the frustration, andlean into it again as an
(47:33):
opportunity for growth, as anopportunity for change, as an
opportunity for evolvement.
If you know someone who coulduse this episode, please share
it and send it to them.
Follow us on Instagram atRenovating the Soul and connect
with me outside of the podcast.
(47:55):
If you want to talk more, if youwant to ask me a question, I am
here with you all and I want tobe on this journey with you all
because I again I really do knowwhat it's like to feel alone and
to feel like no one understandswhat you're striving for.
But if you are like me and youare striving for more, um, I
(48:18):
want to connect with you.
And so until next time, let'skeep doing the work to renovate
our soul.
But let's also keep workingtowards building a stronger
foundation for who we're meantto be.
Bye, y'all.
Forget everything you thought you knew about
friendship.
Because the way we've beentaught to see friendship, the
way it's portrayed in movies, inmusic, and social media, it's
nothing like it was meant to be.
Somewhere along the way, we turnfriendship into a flex, into
something we collect, somethingwe showcase.
(00:22):
But real friendship, it wasnever about clout.
It was never about networking.
It was never about who makes youlook good.
Friendship was supposed to beabout connection, about choosing
someone, not because of whatthey can do for you, but simply
because you care about theirwell-being.
(00:42):
And yet, we live in a worldwhere friendship has become
shallow, performative, andtransactional.
So let's strip all that away andget to the truth.
Because real friendship isn'twhat you think it is.
Welcome to Renovating the Soul,where we turn the mess into
something meaningful.
So clearly, we are going to betalking about friendship.
(01:07):
And before we talk about how tobuild meaningful friendships, we
have to address an elephant inthe room.
We have to address why so manyof us feel disconnected from
friendships in the first place.
It's the loneliness epidemic.
And we have to start by beingcompletely honest.
(01:27):
People do not like talking aboutloneliness.
It's a hard subject.
It doesn't feel good to have tosay that you're lonely.
Because admitting you're lonelyfeels like admitting that you
failed at something as basic asconnection, something that we
were made for.
But here's the thing (01:44):
loneliness isn't just a personal struggle,
it's a cultural one.
We live in a time where we'remore connected than ever.
Yet somehow loneliness is at anall-time high.
You don't believe me?
Like, let's let's talk aboutsome of these things, these
stats and some observations isthat studies show that
loneliness is as deadly assmoking 15 cigarettes a day.
(02:08):
It literally can destroy yourhealth.
We live in the most digitallyconnected era, yet depression,
anxiety, and social isolationare skyrocketing.
Social media is tricking us intothinking that we have community,
but most of those relationshipsare shallow.
(02:28):
You ever call your person likemy social media friend?
You never met them in person.
That's not really a your friend.
Being in a crowded room doesn'tmean you aren't lonely.
Loneliness is about depth, notproximity.
We can be at parties andfunctions and be hosting even in
(02:49):
our own homes and still belonely.
But let's get into why.
Because lonely isn't just aboutnot having people around.
It's deeper than that.
So some of the reasons whypeople feel lonely even when
they're surrounded by otherpeople is the lack of depth in
relationships, where you'rehaving shallow conversations,
(03:10):
surface-level connections, noreal vulnerability in these
relationships.
There's also the disconnectionfrom yourself, where some people
are lonely because they don'tknow themselves.
There's also, and I've talkedabout this being my struggle
before, is the fear of rejectionthat, you know, if you're like
(03:31):
me, you crave connection, butyou avoid it out of fear of
being hurt or misunderstood.
And I know many of us, I'm sure,have experienced past betrayal
or trauma.
If you've been burned before,hurt before, then you hesitate
to trust again.
They're just gonna treat me thesame way.
And then there's some of us, wewe self-isolate without even
(03:54):
realizing it, you know, claimingthat we're protecting our peace,
but we end up pushing peopleaway completely.
And y'all, most people don'teven realize how lonely they are
because they've gotten so usedto it.
They scroll, we scroll todistract ourselves, we surround
ourselves with people to avoidsitting in our own silence.
(04:17):
But deep down, something ismissing, something that we can't
quite name.
And that's where we start.
Loneliness isn't just aboutbeing alone, it's about feeling
unknown, feeling like no onetruly sees you.
And that's why deep friendshipis so important because real
connection breaks the illusionthat we're alone in our
(04:40):
experiences.
And personally, I have feltlonely.
I would say I had felt lonelyfor a long time.
And in the description, I'mgonna share my old blog from
like 10 years ago.
And my first entry in that blogis called loneliness.
(05:02):
I don't remember the full title,but I I think it, I think I just
titled it loneliness.
And I talked about exactly thishow as a kid, you know, middle
school, high school years, Ifelt especially lonely.
Like no one understood me, likeno one got me.
You know, being a teenage girland the only girl in my house,
(05:24):
um, you know, amongst mybrothers and my my mom and dad,
but the only girl, you know,child, I felt particularly
alone.
And I've always been the personwho called everyone friend and
best friend because I've longedfor those connections.
Um, I am that person that hadlike five or six best friends,
(05:46):
and it wasn't until later whenpeople be like, girl, what?
How do you have that many bestfriends?
Um, that I really started to belike, maybe I should be careful,
like maybe I should be carefulabout how, you know, like
calling people friends.
Like maybe I should think aboutthat.
But even now that I don't feel Idon't feel as lonely now in my
(06:10):
30s because I am married to mybest friend, so that feels
really good.
But friendships outside of that,I have been in a dry season of
friendship, especially when Istarted to, from my own personal
knowledge, do a deep dive onwhat friendship really is.
(06:31):
Because I thought I had an ideaof it, I thought that I knew
what it meant, I thought that Iwas striving for those things,
and in many ways I was.
In some ways, I wasn't.
In some ways, I had thesuperficial ideas and you know,
the things that I've alreadytalked about, the culture, what
they tell you friendship issupposed to be and what it's
supposed to look like.
(06:53):
But when I also kept findingmyself on the other end of
friendships that kept crumbling,I had to start really evaluating
are these really friendships?
Because what's the foundation ofthem?
It can't be strong if like onething happens and we can't
really talk about it.
And that's what I long for.
And so I'm saying that just tosay that I know what it feels
(07:15):
like to be in a dry season offriendship, to have to look
around and realize that um youdon't have the kind of
friendships that you want orneed.
I've been there, I am there, andit's not just about being alone,
as I said, it's about feelingunseen, like there's no one who
(07:36):
truly knows you.
Um and it wasn't until I wentthrough that season, and as I'm
going through this season, Ihave I am coping better with it
when I first had to realize thatI really struggled.
But as I'm going through thisseason, I have realized that
deep friendships, they don'tjust appear.
(07:56):
It's not about going to oneparty or one event and clicking
with someone and exchanging textmessages and going to brunch and
going to lunch and going out andthinking that that's deep
friendship.
And deep friendship, they it hasto be built.
And sometimes you have to gothrough the waiting season
before the right ones come.
And so, for anyone like me,sitting in this moment, knowing
(08:20):
that you don't have the deepconnections that you desire and
have been desiring for a longtime, I hope that you will sit
in anticipation of either thing,of the potential that you can
find the friendships that youwant.
But part of me as an adult alsohas to accept the fact and the
(08:44):
reality that that may nevercome.
That the deep friendship thatI've been longing for and
looking for may not come.
And that's okay too.
But that's not the point oftoday, right?
Today we're talking about whatfriendship really is, how deep,
how real, how rare friendshipis.
(09:05):
And I think that's why this notknowing this keeps so many of us
plagued in the idea that makingfriends is so hard.
No, making surface level friendsis not hard, but making deep
friends is not hard in the sensethat it's impossible.
It's hard in the sense that ittakes work.
So let's talk more about how dowe get here?
(09:27):
How did friendships go fromsomething deeply meaningful to
something so shallow?
And we have to look at ourpresent times and say, you know,
you know, friendship used to beabout connection, but now it's
about convenience.
It's about clout, as I've said.
It's about who looks good nextto you rather than who actually
(09:50):
stands beside you when lifefalls apart.
And our culture has had a way ofdistorting friendship in that,
you know, TV and movies, theyshow friendship is fun and
effortless and always exciting.
They never show the work.
And when they do show what Ithink they would presume is
(10:11):
work, it's often a bit shallowor it's a bit easy, right?
I I envy the shows when they um,you know, you have that friend
who can give a monologue andthey still stay friends.
Like uh there was a movie calledUm The Supremes.
It's not about the Supremes, thesenior group, but it's a it's
(10:32):
called The Supremes.
I cannot remember the full titleof it.
I want to say it's a lifetime orVH1 movie, but it's on Hulu.
I know that for sure.
And the ending scene, one of thefriends, she has cancer, and the
end one of the last scenes, theyshe, I mean, she says some stuff
she ain't told her friends inyears.
Like she lays them out in a wayI've not seen in a movie.
(10:54):
And she she and anyways, I getenvious and and jealous.
I should say jealous more thanenvious.
Um, I do I did I get jealous ofthose kind of monologues and
conversations because in reallife, trying to work with
somebody like trying to work ona friendship, trying to hold
someone accountable, trying tohave those deep conversations
(11:17):
and really do the work and workthrough conflict is not that
easy.
People, anyways, I don't want toget too ahead of myself, but um
we'll just I'll leave thatthere.
So I'm you know, to make surewe're all on the same page.
I'm talking about how ourculture has distorted
friendships.
So we started with TVs andmovies, you know.
Many of us are on social media,and friends are now an
(11:39):
aesthetic.
If they don't fit your brand,they don't fit your life.
It's kind of how it is.
Um, we also have this, which I'mgonna push against this.
I'm gonna push against this forthe culture.
Um, this protect your peacemindset.
I think that it has become anexcuse to cut off anyone who
(12:02):
challenges, challenges us,excuse me.
That you know you are wrong andsomeone tries to say you're
wrong, you cut them off, andit's not I had to protect my
peace because oh oh girl, I hadto protect my peace because he
said and I had to.
I think we've distorted that alot.
Um, and then another examplewould be instant gratification
(12:24):
that if someone isn'timmediately fun, exciting, or
useful, we don't invest.
We want the the quick, like Ijust said, we want the instant
gratification.
We want that instant goodfeeling, we want those good
vibes.
How many times they are youbringing the vibes?
Do you have the vibes?
Like, what if someone what ifwho someone is becomes more
(12:51):
apparent when you get to knowthem?
You know, we write people off sofast without ever wondering to
ourselves, is there is there isthere something I'm missing?
Like, is there more to this?
And we're in an era where themoment a friendship requires
(13:13):
work, the moment someone holdsus accountable, the moment
things get hard, people arequick to say, like I said, this
is disrupting my peace, and theyjust simply walk away.
But can we be real?
Are we protecting our peace orare we protecting our ego?
Because let's not pretend thatmost people aren't cutting off
(13:35):
toxic friendships, like theywill have you to believe.
No, they're cutting offfriendships that require
emotional labor, friendshipsthat challenge them, friendships
that hold a mirror up and say,Hey, you were wrong for that.
And instead of learning how tonavigate hard conversations,
people just walk away thinkingthey're healed, but really
(13:57):
they're just avoiding growth.
And here are some hard truths.
Growth is uncomfortable.
Growth is hard.
If you have been listening tothis podcast for a while, then
you know that we talk about thatall the time.
I never once try to tell y'allthat growth is easy.
And if we, if you run from everyuncomfortable situation, if you
(14:21):
run from every uncomfortablefriendship, then you'll never
have a real one.
The same way that if we run fromgrowth, we'll never have a real
life.
Life is all about growth.
We talk about that in in theroots episode.
We can see it in nature.
Growth is a part of life.
Another hard truth is thatfriendships aren't supposed to
(14:43):
be drama-free all the time.
This is something that I wishsomeone would have told me is
that conflict isn't toxic.
It's how you handle it thatdetermines whether the
friendship is toxic.
And for a girl like me whostruggled with conflict and
conflict resolutions, who doesnot stick up for herself, who is
(15:04):
a people pleaser, and just allthese like issues, as you know,
especially in high school,really struggling to find my
voice and speak up for myself,it always felt like conflict was
a bad thing.
But it's not, it's not toxic,it's how you handle it.
(15:24):
And last little hard truth inthis section is that cutting off
people does not mean you'rehealed.
It just means you won't haveanyone left to call when you
actually need a friend.
So let's be honest.
Like, let's ask ourselves againare we protecting our peace?
(15:45):
Or are we just making sure wenever have to confront our own
flaws?
This is also why marriage ishard for a lot of people.
When you get married, it is likehaving a mirror next to you all
the time because this is someonewho sees you behind closed doors
in your most vulnerable,vulnerable moments, and
(16:06):
sometimes that is souncomfortable for people that
they'd rather get out than stayin it.
Sometimes and I would probablysay most times it's not about
the other person, it's aboutthemselves.
But we I want to stick on tomarriage, but I just I mean,
sorry, I want to stick on tofriendship, but I just wanted to
put that there.
So if all of this likesuperficial, these superficial
(16:29):
things, these cultural things iswhat we've been taught about
friendship, then we have to talkabout what friendship was
actually meant to be.
So we've broken down like why somany of us are lonely, that
feeling of disconnection, thatstruggle within, not feeling
understood.
We've exposed how friendship hasbecome shallow and performative.
(16:49):
But again, if that's not whatfriendship is, then we have to
talk about what was it meant tobe.
So, as I like to do, we're gonnatake it back to ancient wisdom.
And I I did this on purpose.
This again, this was my ownpersonal journey.
I wanted to know what did thephilosophers, what even does
(17:11):
even the Bible, which we'regonna talk about later, because
there's beautiful writings inthe Bible, you know, people
Christian or not use the Bible,but I wanted to go back and I
wanted to look at what did theysay about friendship before
social media, before you knowpolitics in the way that we have
it now, before popularitycontest and all the things,
(17:33):
right?
Like I wanted to see what wasfriendship supposed to be, what
what is it, what were thephilosophers wrestling between
and wrestling with?
And I'm gonna put a resource inthe um about two resources.
There's a book that I read onfriendship, and there is an
article that I read onfriendship, and the article is a
philosophical article where theytell you different ideas, and so
(17:57):
again, it's one of those thingswhere you look at the
conclusions of these arguments,and then uh they're not really
telling you what you have tothink, you have to form your own
opinions and and I would sayyour own idea of what friendship
is based upon the research andthe facts, right?
Um, but I'm gonna put those tworesources in there so you can do
your own studying and readingand really soak in uh just the I
(18:22):
I know it's not pure, but that'show I see it.
It's just like the untaintedidea of friendship.
So let's get into it again.
We're gonna take it back to someancient wisdom wisdom.
So, first of all, friendship'snot a new idea.
That's the first thing we wehave to say.
People have been wrestling withthis meaning for centuries, and
one of the most insightfulbreakdowns of friendship comes
(18:42):
from Aristotle.
He believed that there werethree kinds of friendship, and
when you hear them, you mightstart to see where your
friendships fall.
So the first one is friendshipof utility.
This is based on mutualbenefits, so work connections,
collaborations.
These friendships serve apurpose, and once that purpose
is gone, so is the connection.
(19:03):
Second is friendship ofpleasure.
This is based on enjoying eachother's company, this is party
friends, hobby friends, youknow, like your soccer team or
your tennis friends or your, youknow, Saturday night friends,
your brunch friends.
These friendships thrive onshared interest and fun
experiences, but they often fadewhen life changes, when you're
(19:23):
no longer interested in a thing,or when, you know, let's say,
you know, you had your footballbuddy, and then when you get
injured in football because youno longer can because you no
longer can play and you alldon't share that interest, and
that friendship fades becauselife has changed for you, but
for them it hasn't.
And so that would be friendshipof pleasure, friendship of
(19:44):
virtue.
This is based on deep mutualrespect, accountability, and
growth.
These are the friendships thatwithstand time and trials
because they are rooted ingenuine care for each other's
well-being, not justcircumstances or convenience.
And if you guessed it, that isthe friendship, the type of
friendship that we are talkingabout.
That is the type of friendshipthat we're striving for.
(20:06):
And I think it's important tonote here that if you want to
know the quality of yourcharacter, look at the people
closest to you.
Our friendships are not random,they are reflections.
We naturally attract the kindsof people who align with our
current values, our habits, andour mindset.
So before we can even talk aboutdeep friendships, we have to
(20:29):
ask, what do our currentfriendships say about us?
And if you have to pause it, ifyou have to take a second to
really think about that, pleasedo it and come back.
And the truth is, friendshipsdon't just reflect who we are,
they shape who we become.
Some of us have been stunted inour own growth because we keep
(20:50):
choosing friends who reinforceour worst traits instead of
sharpening our best ones.
And on that flip side, the rightfriendships can be the thing
that pushed us into our nextlevel of growth.
As we've talked about inprevious episodes, friendships,
family relationships, um, faithrelationships, that like
(21:13):
connections, no matter wherethey are, are so essential to
our being, to our being on thisearth, to our thriving, to our,
you know, being enabled andbeing stunted and held back.
I mean, it is so a part of whowe are, we can't escape it.
And this is why Aristotle saidthat virtuous friendships, the
(21:34):
deepest kinds of friendships,are built on character.
Because real friends don't justcelebrate you where you are,
they challenge you to grow intowho you're meant to be.
Here's the thing most peopledon't move beyond those first
two the friendship of utilityand the friendship of pleasure.
(21:57):
Not because they don't want to,not because we don't want.
To, but because they don't evenrealize there's more.
No one teaches us how tocultivate friendships of depth.
We fall into friendships becauseof shared spaces, school, work,
hobbies, but we're rarely taughthow to be intentional about
building friendships that gobeyond that.
(22:18):
And if you're realizing now thatmost of your friendships fall
into the first two categories,please give yourself grace.
You can't build something deeperif you didn't even know it
existed.
But if you're listening to thisepisode, now that you do, you
have the power to change it.
So ask yourself (22:39):
are your friendships built on benefits or
on fun?
Or are they built on somethingdeeper?
And more importantly, how canyou start building the kind of
friendships that last?
And if this is truly whatfriendship was meant to be, then
why are so few of usexperiencing it?
(23:01):
Everybody wants deepfriendships.
And and to be to be fair andsafe, I'll say most of us want
deep friendships until werealize what it takes to build
one.
We love the idea of friendshipthat's always easy and fun and
uplifting, but real friendships,the ones that last, they cost us
(23:23):
something.
They take sacrifice, they takecommitment, and sometimes they
even take pain.
The cost of real friendship.
Let's talk about this.
I'm gonna make a few pointshere.
Number one, time.
You can't build deep friendshipwithout showing up consistently.
(23:43):
Number two, vulnerability.
Surface level connections areeasy.
Just saying hi to somebody at aparty, connecting with someone
really quick, like I said, aquick brunch or a lunch or a
breakfast, whatever it is, youknow, going out to eat, hanging
out on a holiday.
Those are easy.
But letting someone truly seeyou, that's hard.
(24:06):
Number three, accountability.
Some of y'all don't, some ofy'all don't like that.
Some of us don't like thataccountability word.
Not me, but some of some of somepeople out there don't like the
idea of accountability.
And we see this all the time.
Um, but a real friend is notjust someone who's gonna hype
you up, they're gonna call youout.
(24:26):
Are you willing to hear thetruth?
And then number four, emotionallabor, which I know is hard, and
I know a lot of us make anexcuse for this as well because
we say, Well, I'm already goingthrough enough.
But you have to be willing to gothrough the emotional labor
because there will bemisunderstandings, hard
(24:47):
conversations, and moments oftension.
But are you willing to workthrough them instead of just
walking away?
This is why so many people stayin those surface-level
friendships, because deepfriendships require something
most people aren't willing togive discomfort, growth, the
(25:07):
willingness to push through hardmoments instead of running from
them.
And this is why having a lot offriends is almost impossible.
And of course, this is metalking to the little girl in
me.
This is me telling that girl inhigh school that, like, all
these people are not your bestfriends.
(25:28):
I I wish that I would have knownthat that truthfully you will
likely only have one, maybe twoor three people in your lifetime
who truly know you at thisdeeper, more intentional level,
and that's okay because that'show I think it was intended to
be.
(25:49):
And I need you to hear me when Isay this.
I'm gonna I'm gonna um hit y'allreal hard with grace because I
don't want you to leave thisepisode feeling down and
hopeless.
Yes, process, yes, think aboutit.
But please, if you are sittinghere and you're realizing that
you don't have a singlefriendship that falls into these
(26:11):
categories of deep, meaningful,true connection, I know how
painful it is.
Yes, it's heartbreaking, yes,it's lonely, but it's also a
beautiful wake-up call.
As I mentioned, you don't haveto just stay stuck anymore, you
get to do something about it,you get to be intentional about
(26:32):
building it.
And trust me when I say thatit's worth the cost.
If my only deep friendship iswith my husband, with Quincy,
that's okay.
At least I have one person whoknows me so well, one person who
(26:53):
loves me and is in thisrelationship and in this
friendship because he caresabout me and I him, and not ten
people trying to use me, or tenpeople who really don't know me
and don't care.
I will take one over the many.
And some of us have prayed fordeep friendships.
(27:15):
But what happens when the answerto that prayer shows up as a
friend who challenges you?
A friend who doesn't just tellyou what you want to hear, but a
friend who holds you accountablebecause that's the cost.
And if you're not ready to payit, then you're not ready for
true friendship, and that's okaytoo.
(27:38):
You have to be honest withyourself about where you are and
what you're willing to give.
And if real friendship is thiscostly, then don't wonder why so
many people struggle to find it.
So let's talk about how to buildthe kind of friendships that
last.
Hopefully, and maybe by nowyou're realizing that true
(28:00):
friendship isn't about findingthe right people, it's about
building real connection withthe right foundation.
First, starting with the rightfoundation in yourself.
And if we want friendships thatlast, then we must be willing to
build them the right way.
And strong friendships are builton several things, but I want to
(28:21):
talk about just a few here.
Intentionality, friendshipsdon't maintain themselves.
If you don't nurture them, theydie.
Also, I'm just saying next,mutual effort.
I love this friendship isn't 5050.
(28:44):
It's 100-100 because both peoplemust invest.
This is not about halfsies, thisis not about shared like
responsibility.
This is about I have 100%responsible, I'm 100%
responsibility, and you have100% responsibility that we both
are showing up, and that showingup is based on our care, like
(29:07):
your care, our care for eachother.
Not from what I can get fromyou, not from what I can gain,
not from how pretty you are, notfrom how popular you are, but
because I care about you, yourwell-being.
As I write, build thefoundation, get to know who you
are.
Um, next is honestcommunication.
You cannot have deep connectionwithout real conversations,
(29:28):
period.
The next is loyalty throughseasons.
A strong friendship can weatherchange if both people are
committed, given that 100-100,that mutual effort.
And not every friendship has tobe deep.
I want to make this clear.
Some friendships aresituational, but they are built
(29:50):
on fun, work, or just commoninterests, and that's okay.
But if you're looking for deep,lasting friendships, those must
be built with intention.
So it's another thing that youcan ask yourself: have I been
waiting for the perfect friendto appear, or have I been
investing in the people alreadyin my life?
(30:14):
And some of you, if you'rerealizing that your friendships
aren't as deep as you want themto be, or maybe you don't have
any friendships at all, then youmight also be asking, where do I
even start?
Like Alexandria, I hear you.
You didn't open up this can ofworms, you didn't debunk what I
what I thought I knew aboutfriendship.
Where do I even start?
(30:35):
And the answer, sorry, theanswer is simple, but it's not
easy, right?
We already know thateverything's gonna take work,
right?
But here's some places where youcan start.
Start by being the kind offriend you're looking for.
In all of our relationships,everything we do in life will
always start with us.
It starts first with your owncharacter, your own priorities.
(30:59):
What are you looking for inlife?
Are you just looking for afriend who is fun?
Or if you want something deeper,are you willing to give
something deeper?
Are you willing to go throughthe conflict, the hard
conversations?
Are you able to take thecriticism?
And if you know that you're notnow, would you be willing to do
that alongside someone who youknew cared about you?
(31:19):
So you start by being the kindof friend that you're looking
for.
If you want a friend who checksin on you, start checking in on
people.
If you want a friend who listensdeeply, why don't you start
listening more?
If you want a friend who wasloyal, why don't you show up
with loyalty first?
Friendships are reflections, asI've already said.
And so if you want deep,meaningful friendships, you have
(31:40):
to embody that first.
Next, and I've hinted at this,you start with the people
already in your life.
Instead of looking for newfriendships and trying to go out
and you know collect morepeople, why don't you ask, who
in my life could I invest inmore?
Who do I already have historywith, but haven't deepened the
connection?
(32:00):
You don't always need newfriends.
Sometimes you just need to godeeper with the right people.
You can also start by makingsmall intentional efforts.
Send a text, plan a coffeemeetup, ask someone how they're
really doing and mean it.
And as much as I I don't thinkI've done this on the podcast,
(32:24):
but as much as I grumble aboutmy time in Oregon and how much
I've not enjoyed it, one of thethings that being here taught me
and going through like differentjobs and courses and just and
like trainings, one of thethings that they do very well
here is that idea of not justasking someone how they're doing
(32:47):
just to hear the response.
But if you're going to asksomeone how they're really
doing, you need to be ready forthat response, whether it's good
or whether it's bad.
And I started doing this topeople.
When someone would ask me how Iwas doing, and if I wasn't doing
good, I'd be like, I'm not doinggood or whatever.
And you could see the differencebetween the people who are
(33:07):
really asking because they trulycared about you versus the
people who were only askingbecause it was just a question
to them, just a formality tothem.
And so when when I when I'msaying that you can ask someone
how they're really doing, right?
We don't just take the servicelevel answer, good.
What does good mean?
What is going on in your life?
And you really listen and youmean it and you're there.
(33:30):
Um, some other small intentionalefforts you can make is that you
know, can be consistent.
Relationships aren't built.
Um, sorry, relationships arebuilt in these small, consistent
moments, not grand gestures.
Um, and friendship isn't aboutone big deep conversation, which
(33:50):
I have had so much in myfriendships where we had that
one big heart to heart, and youfeel like now we're friends
again.
I mean, not again, but like nowwe're really friends because
we've had this deep heart toheart.
Um, but it's not just one bigconversation, it's built in the
small everyday moments.
Start small, start now.
(34:12):
And for the friendships that Ihave that are still growing and
evolving, I can say that I'llshout out one of my friends,
Lisa.
You know, we have our boys oflike the same age, and we each
have we both have boys.
So, and I think they're I thinkthey're the same, like like we
were pregnant at the same timewith our first, we were closely
(34:33):
pregnant with our second, andthen we were not too far apart
with our third, and then I wenton and had a fourth, and she was
like, nah, I'm calling it quits.
And Lisa and I met in a hairstore, not a hair store, sorry,
we met at the hair salon, we hadthe same hairdresser, and our
hairdresser connected us, andthat friendship, you know,
started out, you know, where wejust we went to lunch and we had
motherhood and connection.
(34:54):
But over the years that I'veknown Lisa, let's see, oh my
gosh, our kids are six, gonna beseven this year.
So I've known Lisa for oh mygoodness, seven or eight years,
because I don't remember whatyear we met, if we met close to
the end of our pregnancies, butum, you know, our conversations,
we can talk about work, right?
We can move out of motherhood,we can talk about, you know,
getting to the heart of things,right?
(35:15):
Like I feel like if Lisa sayssomething, I can correct her,
right?
She can correct me.
And I love Lisa because she's sodifferent than me in a lot of
ways, where she shows up in aspecial and meaningful way.
And I feel like I'm that friendwho I really sit, I really
listen, I really remember.
That is very important for me.
I really remember certaindetails and things about a
(35:37):
person.
And so I'm just using that as anexample because as I'm saying
this, right?
These small intentional efforts,it starts just like that, where
your conversations may startbased on your simple
commonalities of being pregnantor having children or being at
the same job or having the sameinterests, same hobbies.
Um, and then as time goes andyou get to learn this person's
(36:00):
character and they get to seeyou, and you do decide that this
is a friendship that I want toinvest in, you build it with
these small conversations andcheck-ins, and and those things
can evolve, right?
Where sometimes we're having aconversation throughout the day,
and then other times we're justdoing simple check-ins because
we're both moms and wives andand and working full time and
(36:20):
all the other things that comewith it.
Um, and so start small, startnow.
Most people are waiting for deepfriendships to just happen.
But deep friendships, they don'tjust happen, they are built,
they take time, they takeeffort, and they require you to
show up, even when it'sinconvenient.
(36:42):
One of the greatest examples ofdeep lasting friendship, we see
it in the Bible.
David and Jonathan.
I actually got the idea to sharethis story from hearing it again
in my son's Bible course.
And I just love this story ofDavid and Jonathan.
Um, we've already talked aboutwhat real friendship is, we've
(37:05):
talked about how to build it,but sometimes the best way to
understand something is to, youknow, that isn't to define it,
but to see it in action.
And so here we have David andJonathan, and what made their
friendship so different is thatthere was loyalty over status.
Um, Jonathan was the son, and ifyou're not familiar with this,
(37:27):
you can find the story in theBible.
Um, but Jonathan was an in 1stKings and 2nd Kings, I believe.
But Jonathan was the son of KingSaul and the rightful heir to
the throne, yet he chose loyaltyto David over his own
birthright.
And if you're not familiar withthe story, then I'll give just a
(37:48):
little more context that Saulwas the king, and there was a
I'm gonna put this in just myown modern terms.
Um Saul's reign was coming to anend, and Saul was supposed to
give it to David, but insteadSaul hated David, and David was
(38:10):
running from Saul, even thoughhe couldn't understand why Saul
wanted to kill him.
And Jonathan was the son of KingSaul, and he like didn't follow
in his dad's footsteps to try totake over the throne.
He chose loyalty to Davidbecause he believed that David
was meant to be the next king,which is what was said or
prophesied.
(38:31):
Um, so again, that there wasloyalty over status, and then in
their relationship, there wasprotection and sacrifice that
when King Saul wanted to killDavid, Jonathan risked his own
life to protect him.
And then there was celebration,not competition.
Jonathan did not see David as athreat, he saw him as a brother.
And there was this commitmentthrough hardship that even when
(38:53):
David had to flee, theirfriendship didn't waver.
And for many of us, or I shouldsay, I really don't know how
many people are experiencingthis, but I would say for some
of us who went to college in adifferent state than where we
lived, or you know, for us whohave formed those friendships in
college or in high school or incertain places, and then you're
(39:16):
separated by distance and time,it can feel really hard, even
being in the same state aspeople.
Like I mentioned, my friendLisa, we don't see each other
all the time because she's youknow about 45 minutes an hour
from me, which is not that long,so don't y'all judge us, but you
know, in between that though,you know, we're working
full-time, we have our childrenagain, we're wives, we're trying
(39:39):
to do all the things for ourhouseholds, you know, and all
these things, right?
And so another thing about youknow, Jonathan and David's
friendship that I want toencourage you all about is that
friendship can survive time anddistance.
And Jonathan and David'sfriendship, it endured despite
separation, danger, and time.
And some of our bestfriendships, y'all, we will not
(40:01):
be the ones where we see eachother every day.
It'll be the ones that neverchange, no matter how much time
or distance passes.
And I feel like for for thoselistening, for people in my
generation, a lot of usexperience that that some of the
people that we have cherishedthe most and become and we're
(40:22):
closest to at once in a season.
There's now that distance intime.
But again, real friendships cancan make it through those.
And so to wrap up this littlepart, like Jonathan had every
reason to turn on David power,position, family expectations,
okay?
Who's going against theirfamily, right?
But he didn't.
(40:43):
Because true friendship is notabout what's convenient, it's
about what's right.
And if you want to know whattrue friendship looks like, ask
yourself do the people aroundyou protect you even when it's
costing them something?
Do they celebrate you even whenyou're winning in areas where
they're struggling?
(41:03):
Do they stick with you even whenlife gets messy?
Y'all, those are loadedquestions.
I hope that you would write themdown, pause, take a moment,
because even for me, thatquestion, do they celebrate you
even when you're winning inareas where they're struggling?
It just makes me stop in mytracks because I feel like so
(41:23):
many of my friendships have beenbased on, have not had that
element.
Let's just say it like that.
So let's bring this full circle.
What are you going to do withthis?
We started this episode bydismantling everything we've
been taught about friendship.
Now I'll leave you with this.
(41:44):
Friendship was never meant to bea transaction, it was meant to
be a covenant, a bond, acommitment.
And if your friendships aren'tbuilt on that, then it's time to
start rethinking who you letinto your life and who you
choose to show up for.
We live in a culture wherepeople think a good friend is
just someone who hypes you upand makes you feel good.
(42:07):
But the Bible literally says,and it's a proverb, I want y'all
to hear this wounds from afriend can be trusted, but an
enemy multiplies kisses.
Meaning that a real friend willtell you the truth even when
it's hurt, sorry, even when ithurts.
(42:27):
And that's better.
That you can trust your friendwho is willing to tell you the
truth even when it hurts.
But the people who only flatteryou, those might be your biggest
threat.
Those enablers in our life, aswe talked about before, those
are probably the people you wantto steer away from.
(42:49):
Think about that.
The ones who always agree withyou, the ones who never
challenge you, the ones who onlytell you what you want to hear,
might not be your friends atall.
The ones who enable you in yourmess and your drama and your
trauma and never encourage youand push you to grow, who almost
(43:10):
seem who almost seemuncomfortable when you start to
grow, they may not be yourfriends at all.
They might just be keeping youcomfortable.
And sometimes, most times,that's more dangerous than an
enemy.
Y'all, real friendships aren'tjust about the good times.
They're about standing in thefire with each other.
(43:32):
They're about sharpening,refining, and making each other
better.
So as you move forward afterthis episode, read that book,
read that episode.
I mean, sorry, read thatepisode, read that book and read
that article and some otherresources, right?
There's lots out there.
I recommend the two that I hadbecause it's based on again the
philosophy of friendship and notjust all of these again, you
(43:55):
know, new age ideas.
But as you're doing that and asyou're moving forward, I want
you to ask.
Yourself, am I just looking forpeople to fill space in my life?
Or am I willing to build thekind of friendships that mean
something?
Because at the end of the day,friendship isn't about who's
around when life is fun, it'sabout who's still standing when
(44:16):
everything falls apart.
But before you sit with theweight of all this, because I
know this was probably a littleheavy, maybe a little sad, and
that's okay.
We've already talked aboutemotions.
Lean into whatever feelingsyou're having.
But I want to remind you andencourage you that real
friendships do exist.
(44:37):
It might take time, it mighttake intentionality, it might
take a season of being alonebefore the right people come,
but it's worth it.
You are not too much, you arenot too late, and you are not
alone.
The right friendships aren'tjust found, they're built.
So what kind of foundation areyou laying?
(44:58):
And I hope that that'sencouraging for us.
If we stop seeing things as ahindrance and we start seeing
things as a beautiful blessingand as an opportunity, it will
shift our mindset about how weapproach them.
What am I saying?
If we stop seeing friendships orlack thereof as a sad thing and
(45:19):
a heartbreaking thing, andinternalizing it as that means
I'm not good enough and I don'thave worth, and we instead see
friendship how it's meant to beas an opportunity to work hard
and build a relationship andinvest simply because I care
about the person, that is such abeautiful thing and an
opportunity to help me grow as aperson, right?
(45:44):
In my own character, but to besomeone who can see the best in
people and be there for someoneand be the challenge they need,
but to also get that again,knowing that it's not based on
my makeup palette, knowing thatit's not based on my new shoes,
knowing that it's not based onthe position I have, me being
(46:05):
their sub uh superior, me havingsomething that they want.
It's not about my money, mystatus, it's not about how funny
I am, it's not about me beingable to sing, that it's not
about any of these things, butit's simply because they care
about my well-being and I tothem.
So if this episode hit home foryou, I challenge you, reach out
(46:27):
to one person today, not forsmall talk, not for a favor, but
just to check in, just to be afriend.
Because deep friendships don'tjust happen, they're built one
moment at a time.
And if you want to go deeper,then I want to invite you to
(46:48):
join my email list.
You can go torenovatingtheul.com and sign up.
I do a journal prompt for almostevery episode, and I do have a
journal prompt for this episode.
So if you want that journalprompt and you want to go
deeper, please sign up for theemail list.
If you want the prompt, likeright away, when you sign up
(47:09):
from to the email list and youget the email, just email me and
say, Could you give me thejournal prompt for the
friendship episode?
I want us to go deeper on thistogether.
I want us to sit with this.
I don't want us to run from thehard things.
I want us to lean into the hardthings, lean into the sadness,
lean into the frustration, andlean into it again as an
(47:33):
opportunity for growth, as anopportunity for change, as an
opportunity for evolvement.
If you know someone who coulduse this episode, please share
it and send it to them.
Follow us on Instagram atRenovating the Soul and connect
with me outside of the podcast.
(47:55):
If you want to talk more, if youwant to ask me a question, I am
here with you all and I want tobe on this journey with you all
because I again I really do knowwhat it's like to feel alone and
to feel like no one understandswhat you're striving for.
But if you are like me and youare striving for more, um, I
(48:18):
want to connect with you.
And so until next time, let'skeep doing the work to renovate
our soul.
But let's also keep workingtowards building a stronger
foundation for who we're meantto be.
Bye, y'all.
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