January 21, 2026 • 30 mins
The toughest calls rarely end when the sirens go quiet. We sat down with Alaska-based counselor Morgan Yaskus to explore how real support for police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics takes shape in small communities where everyone knows your truck, your shift, and your business. Morgan spent three years on a nonprofit-led mobile crisis team working alongside first responders through MOUs, navigating scenes that were neither strictly medical nor criminal. That proximity reshaped how debriefs happen, how trust is earned, and why cultural competence matters more than any script.
We get honest about the barriers that keep first responders from care: parking outside a therapy office that sits between the firehouse and PD, the risk of being recognized by neighbors, and the thin bench of clinicians who truly “get it.” Morgan breaks down what helpful looks like—clear boundaries, discreet logistics, and a therapist who understands dark humor without pathologizing it. We challenge voyeuristic “worst call” questions and focus instead on regulation, meaning-making, and peer-informed support that fits the tempo of the job.
Beyond the room, access and policy loom large. Telehealth opened doors, but interstate licensure compacts and reimbursement rates remain sticking points in places with higher costs of living. We talk ethical realities in rural practice, the trade-offs when conflicts of interest are unavoidable, and the duty to serve when the alternative is no care at all. If you’re a responder, a clinician, or a leader trying to build a healthier department, you’ll leave with practical steps for debriefs, privacy, and finding culturally competent help.
If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with your team, and join us for Part 2!
To reach Morgan, go to www.bewildandrooted.com
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SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.ai.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
You heard me talk about it.
I'm gonna keep on talking aboutit because I love it.
I've had about a year and ahalf, 18 months practice with
it, and I still enjoy it.
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(01:19):
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Free.ai, a great service.
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And I highly encourage you to doso.
Well, hi everyone, and welcometo episode 240.
This is the third episode of theyear.
In episode 239, we met with JeffDill, who works in Nevada with
(02:04):
the Fire Firefighters,particularly, but it was a great
interview.
I hope you go back and listen tothis.
But I'm very excited to finallymeet someone that I connected
with online like seven monthsago when this comes out in
January.
And she showed up suddenly in mymy sheets.
I do a release for the podcastregularly.
I'm like, who's this?
(02:24):
And she's like, Oh, remember mefrom Facebook?
Like, oh yeah, I do.
And I was actually fascinatedbecause I at the time, I think I
had just asked my first personfrom Alaska who talked about her
experience in Antarctica.
And now I hear she sold out andlives in Washington, so
whatever.
But you know, I'm very happy tomeet with Morgan Yaskis, and I
(02:45):
pronounced that right, toresilience development in
action.
So welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
Thank you.
You did pronounce it right.
Yeah.
And yes, I am still here inAlaska, born and raised.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
You're born and raised in Alaska.
What part of Alaska?
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Well still, I'm about an hour outside of
Anchorage, which is where youwould typically fly into.
Or people who are less familiarwith Alaska know Anchorage
still.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Yeah, I mean, uh I can't say I'm super familiar
with Alaska.
I mean, I I would have been veryimpressed if you told me you
were from the Aleutian Islands,but I guess that's not where
you're from.
SPEAKER_03 (03:17):
It is not.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
You can see or I hear you can see Russia from
there.
But anyway, I got to know you alittle bit pre-interview.
I loved our conversation onlinetoo, and very happy to have you
here.
But the audience might not knowwho you are.
So how about you do a quickintroduction about yourself?
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah.
My name's Morgan.
I'm a licensed professionalcounselor here in Alaska.
I spent the last three years onour mobile crisis team, which
was the first one we've ever hadin the borough that I live in.
So that was really exciting.
And it was ran in kind of aninteresting way, actually.
So it was under the umbrella ofa nonprofit.
Um so I wasn't actuallyconnected to EMS or fire law
(03:58):
enforcement.
And that is how most of theother programs, like in our
Anchorage area, are ran.
And so we had MOUs with all ofthose entities and we worked
alongside them.
And so it was a really greatexperience, but it didn't
necessarily come without itschallenges.
And I think it was greatpractice in terms of building
relationships within like thefirst responder realms because
(04:21):
they they don't just trust youright off the bat and they
shouldn't.
And so I think it just created alot of really great opportunity
uh to practice that relationshipbuilding before I moved to
private practice, which is whereI am now.
And I see children and familiesabout that's probably 60% of my
case load and the other 40%being first responders.
(04:41):
So I don't see any adults inbetween there outside of family
work or first responders.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
Well, you know, I that's why a lot of people like
I know I'm specialized workingas a mental health first
responder person, but I it'sabout 60 to 70% of my case load,
depending on the time of yearand so forth, because with all
due respect to my women and menwho work in the first responder
world, I need a change of pace.
I can't only do that.
(05:05):
So with all due respect to them,that's why I I respect the fact
that you have a balance also.
SPEAKER_03 (05:11):
Fun balance.
I get to play, I do some playtherapy for a couple sessions,
and I get to see the firstresponders and then back and
forth, and it keeps me on mytoes.
I'll say that much.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
So they're very good at keeping us on our toes.
I I think anyway.
But you know, that there's a fewquestions I want to ask.
Well, one of them I was gonnaask you, you know, we we
connected, but it's not like youconnected with me and said, gee,
do you have a podcast?
You kind of wanted to be on thepodcast.
So I don't know what was yourmotivation to come on to the
podcast because I everyone hasdifferent motivations for these
(05:42):
things.
SPEAKER_03 (05:43):
And aside from you just like really looking like a
podcast guy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
Yeah, well, I do look like a podcast.
And the voice, right?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
I think a really important piece of my work and
what I do is that I'm in schoolfor my doctorate right now.
I mean, it's not in clinicalwork, it's in human services
with the focus on communityprevention, intervention, and
advocacy.
So that is all it's a mouthful,but it is very near and dear to
my heart.
And I think a big piece of thatis just speaking out on a lot of
these challenges, the good, thebad, the ugly, and bringing
(06:14):
awareness to it all.
And so I think when I saw yourpost, I was like, wow, this is a
really great opportunity to dothat actually, to just speak
from experience, right?
And not speaking downeducationally, but just speaking
about what challenges I'veexperienced, kind of being in
that that therapist role andalso that first responder role,
and also combining the two andjust the the unique challenges
(06:38):
that we see here in Alaska,because as many people know,
we're a little isolated overhere.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
So well, I blame Canada for that one.
And that's where I'm from.
So all joking aside, I thinkthat that's the great thing
because that's where I startedoff with the community justice
stuff years ago in thenonprofit.
Shout out to advocates for theyears I spent there.
They really formed me.
But it really was, you know, thechallenges of you know
(07:02):
presenting the community serviceto for for you know for we had a
lot of uh people from othercountries.
And I know that's controversialright now, but I don't frankly
care.
But we had to do some education,and the police don't want to
arrest you necessarily, theywant to make sure that you don't
get the living piss kicked outof you.
And they're not looking tonecessarily always put people in
(07:24):
jail if they need support andthey need help for treatment.
I mean, we we worked reallyhard.
You know, we started that in uh2006 and we really graduated.
And I that's one of my passions,so I'm very happy you're gonna
talk about that.
The other thing I wanted to askyou, because this is wasn't in
the questions, but here's yourfirst curveball.
Just welcome to my show.
SPEAKER_03 (07:43):
I'm ready for it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
How do you wake up one day?
And this is what I've been askedthis question, so I always like
it because it's a good question.
What made you decide one day,like, gee, Willakers?
I'm gonna become I'm gonna workin a community, I'm gonna work
the crisis team, and I can'twait to work with first
responders.
Who in the blue hell wakes upand says, I want to do that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
You know, it's something we tell our clients
all the time, right?
It's like you recreate yourchildhood environments.
And then I genuinely think thatactually is my answer.
Like, you know, I used to say,uh, because I work in
residential care for a littlewhile too.
And I used to say, like, I justthrive in chaos.
(08:23):
I just thrive in chaos.
And then I'm pretty sure mytherapist felt me down at one
point and has like, was like,have you thought about why?
You know, and I'm like, no, ofcourse I haven't.
I don't want to go there.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm like, I think we're at timefor today.
I'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
It's the therapist being interviewed by a therapist
sometimes.
We need we have control issueswith that.
But anyway.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
Yeah, right, right.
But I do think that was a pieceof it where I was like, oh, the
chaos felt kind of normal,actually.
But I also am a big believerthat when when you have I gotta
find the right words for this,but when you have this thing
that you're that you'renaturally good at, and it's this
gift that you have that itshould be shared.
And I think as I started workingin the residential space at
(09:11):
first, I did notice that.
And that's not like a toot yourown horn moment, but it was just
I felt okay in those situations.
My my nervous system was able tostay regulated and I was able to
just think really, I think whatI enjoyed most was was being
able to think outside of thebox.
And so then when the talk ofcreating this mobile crisis team
(09:33):
was out, was happening, and Iwas able to join that team.
I got to do that for the nextthree years.
I got to think outside of thebox, and that's what I really
enjoyed.
So being okay in the chaos was apiece of it, but also just the
really I I call it autonomy, butit's not like I really had a
choice of thinking outside ofoutside of the box and really
(09:54):
redefining what it means to meetpeople where they're at.
Because I think truthfully, thatphrase gets used all of the
time, and it's just not alwaystrue in my experience.
We're not often meeting thesepeople where they're at.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
No, because we want the resolution more than we want
to meet them where they're at,and it's learning to go into
resolution while meeting themwhere they're at.
And that's a tricky combo, ifyou ask me.
Um the other thing I want tonote is I know we're we're
there's a little difference inage here, but I started
residential and then I worked ona crisis team for about 15 years
(10:28):
among other jobs during thattime.
And uh now I'm in privatepractice.
So I feel like there's a lot ofparallels in our careers, and I
I find that very particularlyinteresting.
But yeah, I think that, youknow, when you talk about
helping the community, one ofthe things I'm sure you saw when
you worked on a mobile crisisteam is that not only is the
community needing help, butsometimes those guys would or
(10:49):
gals, I'm not trying to begender discriminatory here, but
they would open up to youbecause of like uh the stuff
they deal with.
I don't know if that was yourexperience, but certainly
happened with me.
SPEAKER_03 (11:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think a lot of times it wasthe first time in a long time,
maybe ever, that there wassomebody else there that might
get it.
Somebody that they're notspending 24 hours a day with,
right?
But yeah, I think that wasabsolutely a part of it.
And it it gave them, you know,our our team exists and gave
them a space to to process someof these these things, whether
(11:22):
they realize that's what washappening or not.
But really, like our our debriefsystem is maybe not the greatest
out here either.
I think we're really trying.
I think they're really trying.
But uh Alaska's really known forbeing behind the game in a lot
of ways.
Like anything that happens,we'll get there five to ten
years later.
And I think this is one of thosethings that we're getting to,
(11:45):
but we're not there yet.
And so we were able to bribridge that gap a little bit for
them too, of of being there fordebriefs or leading the
debriefs, or just staffingdifferent different questions
where and and I'll get into thisa little bit later, but where
they were just on on scenes thatit was not a medical issue or it
wasn't a police issue.
And like, what can we do?
(12:06):
Because before they just theyhad nobody to ask that.
They just had to figure it outor not.
Well, and then everyone's mad atthat regardless.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Well, yeah, well, I mean, I can go on and on about
that.
Like, you know, you're atherapist, so you know as much
as I do, there's shittytherapists out there, but they
don't get the get the front pageof the newspaper and be on ABC
World News every night.
But one cop does somethingreally bad in Iowa, sorry for
picking on Iowa, then suddenlyall cops from Alaska to Hawaii
and on the mainland are allshitty.
(12:35):
And that's one of the uniquechallenges that I find is that
they don't do that in any otherprofession.
And I think there's somediscrimination there.
You talk about community stuff.
I always tell people like, we wedon't want everyone who's uh you
know, whatever ethnicity, genderwant to be treated the same way,
but somehow we're allowed totreat cops all the same way,
which seems to be quitediscriminatory, if you ask me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Uh and having someone like us who is able to
talk about it and seen somestuff, because when you go to
work on a crisis team, you dosee stuff that maybe the regular
population or civilians, as Ilike to call them, do not see.
And I think that really helpsthem to relate to you, probably,
and also make them like, oh, shecan maybe get this shit.
SPEAKER_03 (13:20):
I think too that that when you have that lived
experience in the realm, or oreven like as a spouse of such
too, there's there's a greatersense of felt safety because
they don't feel like they haveto prove themselves to you,
right?
That they're not a bad guy.
unknown (13:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
And I think that makes a big difference in the
line of work when you when youhave had that experience.
Cause I could not imagine, youknow, like you're talking about
these news headlines andexperiencing that and being
grouped into that and having togo to a therapist where you're
like, okay, I want help.
And then feeling the need toprove yourself that I am not
like them.
I'm not a bad guy.
(13:59):
Right?
It shouldn't be that way, but itis often.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
It's usually like that.
And it's also like therapistswho are not experienced.
I talk about cultural competencyfor first responder therapists
as being essential because howmany cops have come to me and or
firefighters have said, youknow, they wanted me to tell
them their worst story, theworst story I ever had.
Like, well, that's gossipingnumber one.
And number two, who the fuckwants to talk about that,
(14:23):
therapy or not?
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve, this is this is actuallykind of mind blowing to me
because I wrote that exactsentence down in my notes for
today.
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Which one?
SPEAKER_03 (14:34):
Where I was like, I want to talk about this.
The amount of clients I've hadthat have come to me and said
that a past therapist has justwanted their war stories.
Right.
Or like they're doing an intakeand they're like, oh my gosh,
you must see really horriblethings.
And they're like, Well, yeah, noshit.
And then their next question islike, what's what's the worst
call you've ever been on?
And like, oh my gosh, what inthe world?
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I mean, it and it's that's the stuff that you know,
you talk about that stuff.
I this is why we need thecultural competency.
Well, we can talk about that alittle later on if you want to.
Yeah.
But you know, when you haveexperience as a crisis clinician
and you work side by side withthem, there's a whole different
dynamic, I feel, happens.
Not because you saw horribleshit.
(15:18):
Well, we do, but that's not thepoint.
It's the point of, oh, okay,maybe they're one of us, so to
speak.
We may not be quote firstresponders, but we're certainly
one of them in the sense that wedo need to deal with that and
we're not horrified all thetime.
And sometimes we have darkhumor.
I think the other part too is Ijoke around that therapists who
don't work with our field won'tunderstand the dark jokes we
(15:40):
make.
SPEAKER_03 (15:41):
No.
Yeah, I think I completelyagree.
SPEAKER_01 (15:44):
I would I I mean, we haven't responded in that way,
but I'm sure you have a coupleof really dark jokes.
And we we have a bunch of peopleI'm working on with a group to
vet people who are firstresponder therapists who are
actually competent at doing so.
And that's one of the questions.
Tell us your darkest humor joke.
And if it's not dark enough, wedon't want you.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
That's fair.
So because not only like youknow, you don't have to dish it
out per se as a therapisttherapist, but you have to be
able to understand it and nottry to like pathologize it,
which is like what I feel likehappens.
Well, where's that coming from?
Well, let me tell you, it'scoming from these horrible
experiences I've had for thelast 10 years.
Let's be real.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Well, you you just said you said it yourself, you
know, why do we do that as thelike a therapist?
And when you go see yourtherapist, and like, you know,
you're recreating, right?
I'm like, yeah, I'm not here forthat.
Actually, yes, that's whatyou're doing in therapy.
But yeah, we we do fit fit ourpast, right?
And that's what it is, is thatwe're trying to fix our past too
with that stuff.
But that's just my experiencegrowing up, like for me, the
(16:46):
other motivator for working withfirst respond, not only is it
the language I speak, because Imight be in a white-collar job,
but I'm not exactly Mr.
Big Words, that's not my thing.
Especially this is my secondlanguage, so it's even worse.
But I think it's also being ableto meet people.
And if you didn't grow up with ablue-collar type of man like
background, I think it's reallyhard to understand what they go
(17:09):
through and what the job is.
SPEAKER_03 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
But you know, I think that what when you work on
a crisis team like that, I Imean, I I'm sure that there's a
lot of stuff that happens whereyou have some challenges, right?
When I worked, we talked priorto the interview.
When I worked in Vermont,getting first responders to go
to therapy was already achallenge.
Finding a therapist was even abigger challenge, and finding a
therapist that's what was withinan hour.
(17:34):
This is before telehealth, waseven bigger.
I mean, I was in Vermont in2009.
Telehealth was barely existingat that point, and so it's
really hard.
I mean, have you had any firsthand experiences on how to work
with first responders, orparticularly with the trauma and
accessing mental care mentalhealth care because it's so
(17:54):
difficult?
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
Not in 2009 because I was 11 then.
But more recently.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (18:03):
Oh man.
I think there's a couple.
And I think the reality isthey're probably not unique to
just Alaska.
I'm sure people in other placesare gonna be like, yeah, we
experience that too.
So I think it's more maybeunique to small towns, right?
And I think here in in theborough, you know, Alaska is
known for being a big state, butwe're not very populated.
(18:23):
So Wasilla, where I live, hasjust over 13,000 people.
And then in the entire Matsuborough, which is the area that
that we served there, which Imight get to say wrong in this,
but I'm pretty sure it's biggerthan West Virginia, is what I've
been told, our borough.
And it has about 110,000residents.
So that means really, wheneveranything happens in this
(18:47):
community, even if you're notthe first responder involved in
it, you still hear about it.
Andor you know the peopleinvolved.
You know, so the same firstresponder who's pulling
individuals from a car accident,it is not unlikely for them to
then pass that family in thegrocery store a couple days
(19:07):
later or be related to them,right?
Or have known them from highschool.
And I think that is notnecessarily unique to Alaska per
se, but it is unique to those,the really small towns.
And that that level of proximityand responsibility, I think,
adds another layer of emotionalcomplexity that you don't always
(19:27):
see in the larger systems.
I'm sure it's there, but I thinkyou see it more in these smaller
systems because the challengeper se isn't just lack of access
to care.
It's just like the double bindof it's the same people that are
telling you, you know, likeyou're the one who holds the
line, we rely on you, you're thestrong one, we're calling you
for help.
But also you should ask for helpif you need it.
(19:49):
And so the moment that they try,there's there's this double
bind.
There's there's tension, right?
Or the moment they want to try.
And I think in Alaska, in myarea specifically, privacy, it's
it's a long time.
And community ties run deep, andthat's a great thing about
living in a small town.
But it also creates almost likean identity crisis.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:09):
And because you know, if you if you speak up,
people will know.
It's likely people will know.
And if you stay quiet, you're atrisk of being under all of this
weight, right?
So it's it's this no-winsituation that really traps, I
think, helping professions,first responders most
specifically, between the rolethat they play in the community
and the human that they are.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And you I I love that because that's exactly what
I just had a conversation today,actually, with a client of mine,
where, you know, I do want mypolice officers to be ready for
the worst case scenario.
But then I'm like, okay, whenyou get home, I want you to be
balanced.
And they're like, what?
I didn't say it that way, butyou get the point.
It's really botany.
(20:52):
And you talk about small townsand small counties.
You know, I'm not only Vermont.
I remember a few years ago I wasinterviewed somewhere on uh I on
uh Fox here in a local station.
There was a murder suicide withtwo kids in a particularly small
town.
You can look it up if you wantto.
I just don't need to give thedetails.
Uh they interviewed me and theysaid, What do you think the
(21:12):
difficulty is?
I said, It's a small town, sothey all know each other, and
highly likely the firstresponders who responded have a
kid or have someone they knowthat knows that kid, and that
makes it even harder to processall that stuff because you're
supposed to be the authority,you're the cop, you're the
firefighter, you're theparamedic EMT, whatever, it
don't matter to me.
Uh and then you got your ownshit that comes from that.
(21:34):
And where do you go?
You can't turn to someone inAbington because there's an
exposure thing.
I'm picking on Abington, butwhatever town, right?
Because even in Massachusetts, Iknow you you're a little
familiar with Massachusetts, youknow, there's Boston, but then
there's like Greenfield, whichis in western mass, it's fairly
isolated, it's not too far fromAmherst, but it's like 5,000,
(21:57):
6,000 people.
And I don't think it's a uniquechallenge for Alaska.
I think that every like you goto New York State, everyone says
New York State, uh New YorkCity.
I don't know if you've ever beento Poughkeepsie, but that's
pretty isolated.
You go to Syracuse, it's notlike it's right in the you get
snow like you do in Alaska andCanada.
And I think that there's theseunique challenges in every state
(22:18):
in this country, and frankly, inNorth America, where yeah, sure,
New York City is different,Boston's different, LA's
different.
I get that.
But we all have smaller areas.
You go to California, you end upin Dead Valley.
There's a lot of smallcommunities there that everyone
knows everyone's business.
And who do you turn to?
The therapist who went on thecall with you, and that seems
even more exposing, if you askme.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Right.
Yeah, the the issue of it, youknow, it does absolutely run
deeper because it's it'snaturally going to be closer to
home because there's only somany people in this town, right?
And the the flip side of it toois that there's this
confidentiality issue.
And as much as I wish that therewasn't, there is.
That's the reality, right?
Like and you know, bring realityonto this podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Please keep on making me very well.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
It's it's kind of nice in there sometimes, but you
know, my office, for example, islike central Wasilla area and
it's discreet, it's it's tuckedaway, thankfully, but it's
located right between ourcentral EMS fire station and our
police department.
So I mean when you think aboutlike Alaska, I'm gonna pick on
(23:29):
this a little bit that peoplelike to drive very specific
vehicles that are perhapsrecognizable in a town where
that's the case and in a fieldwhere everyone else knows your
schedule, right?
Like just parking outside of atherapist's office can feel like
a threat to your privacy.
I mean, I'm I'm tucked away.
(23:49):
I'm like, in we don't actuallyhave alleyways, I think, like in
my borough, but it's like asclose as you could get to one.
And that's helpful, right?
And and I tried to, you know,minimize signage.
And I actually got got introuble for that recently by
insurance companies.
They didn't appreciate that,even after I explained why.
But yeah, even just parkingoutside of the office can feel
like a threat to privacy.
(24:10):
And I actually got curious lastnight and I searched because I
end up referring people to otherproviders that are that are
telehealth because I just didn'tknow of any in my area.
And I grew up in this area.
So you'd think you'd think I'dknow.
But I didn't.
And I I ended up looking it upand I was like, oh, this is why
I never knew the money becausethere's two.
(24:31):
There's literally two in-persontherapists in the area that
explicitly say that they theywork with first responders.
There's probably others thatwill from you know, on a
case-by-case basis, perhaps, butthere's two that explicitly
stated that.
And based on their public bios,neither appear to have lived
experience with the firstresponder culture, which I
(24:53):
really do believe matters morethan people realize.
However, like I said, that I wasjust going off public
information.
I don't actually know.
But all this to say, there'sthere's two.
And in a town where everybodyknows everybody, the reality is
even if there are more, there'dbe so much conflict of interest.
I have that all of the time.
Conflict of interest come upthat makes it bordering
(25:13):
unethical to serve theseindividuals, sometimes depending
on your licensing board and howyou want to look at that.
But it's the reality of livingin a small town.
You can't really get around it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
I mean, I I can go on about ethics around that for
a long time because while I getwhat the LPCs and the LMHCs and
the L I CSWs of the world needto say, I worked in a small time
in Vermont where there was meand like seven other therapists.
So we ended up seeing familymembers of family members.
And if you do yourconfidentiality very clearly and
you set those limits andboundaries, there is ways to do
(25:45):
it in an ethical way.
I know the LPCs and the LMHCs inthe world right now went and it
gasped, but I really don't carein the sense that we need like
sometimes you don't have achoice, it's just what it is.
And I when you work with firstresponders, this is the other
part too, right?
You can tell me if I'm wrong.
It's I'm assuming Alaska'sexactly the same.
My name, I don't if I stopadvertising everything, not a
(26:08):
website, not nothing.
I know that I would still getphone calls because they're
like, oh, department Hollistonis where I'm at.
Oh, the guy, the the detectivein Holliston told me to call you
and I'm in Amherst.
I don't know anyone in Amherst,so that's why I'm trying to use
a town I don't know.
And they're like, Oh, okay, Ihear you're competent.
(26:29):
I always joke around and I say,Don't tell don't listen to lies.
I'm really, really bad.
Because now you're gonna expecta lot of results.
I don't want that.
But the joke, all joking aside,it it it is an ethical dilemma
for some, but for me, I'vedecided that it's uh if you set
the limits and the boundariespretty quickly, and for me it's
pretty easy, you might work inthe same department.
(26:49):
You ask me any questions aboutanyone that you know is seeing
me, you're gone.
I'm not negotiating with you,I'm not giving you a second
chance, you're gone.
And I think there's ways to dothat.
I know the LPCs would sayborderline uh crossing
boundaries.
I mean, you can set goodboundaries and not cross them.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
You know, we have a duty too, as I'm I'm an LPC, and
if it's between a possibleconflict of interest from a
scene I worked five years agowith this individual, or no
service at all, then I think wehave a duty to serve.
And I will argue that till theday I die, and hopefully I don't
have to, but I will if I needto.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
I it a hundred percent.
I mean, that happened inVermont.
Even here it happens, but I I'mvery clear.
And if someone's safety is athand, I'm not going, that's a
conflict of interest.
How about you go hurt?
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
Can't help you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
Go hurt.
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
I'm not doing that.
So if uh the LMHC board inMassachusetts or the LPC boards
in Alaska want to call me, goahead, please do.
I will I will fight that to thedeath anyway.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
Let's chat.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
Yeah.
The other part too is that, youknow, before I think we're gonna
wrap up and go for another halfhour because this we're just
starting here.
The one thing I wanted to askyou and maybe throw out and
something, you know, as ofJanuary 2026, we now have the
interstate compact stuff that wecan finally do now.
And I believe Alaska is part ofit.
SPEAKER_03 (28:13):
I'm not a hundred percent sure, but no, not not
officially in an officialcapacity yet.
And I don't know, I'll I'd haveto do a little bit more digging,
but I don't have a lot of faiththat Alaska will jump into that
actually, because this is ashorrible as it sounds.
I think it comes down to a ratesissue, is what I kept reading.
Because our cost of living inAlaska is higher and our we're
(28:36):
typically reimbursed at a higherrate for those that accept
insurance.
And so from the things that I'veread lately, that's really what
it's coming down to, or some notwhat it's coming down to, but
it's a lot of the pushback is ifAlaska were to join, then we
would have significantly lowerrates of reimbursement.
So this is just another step oflike insurance companies want to
(28:57):
fuck us, but right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
That's Massachusetts said the exact same thing
because we have higher livingcost of living, yeah.
Cola here.
So that's why they're notjoining.
And I'm like, that's bullshit.
Because don't tell me that LAdoesn't have a high cost of
living.
You live in Hawaii or Alaska,you gotta get everything
delivered to you, and that's alot of like that's a high cost
(29:20):
of living.
South Dakota, okay, I get it.
Okay, South Dakota is a littledifferent.
I'm not picking on them, justgiving an example.
But don't tell me that Dallasdoesn't have a high cost of
living.
Don't tell me that Miamidoesn't.
Yeah.
It's a lot of horseshit.
But anyway, I I believe that weneed to work on getting
interstate compact across thecountry for us.
But as we I'm gonna wrap uphere, and I want us if it's okay
(29:42):
with you, we're gonna go to thenext question probably in the
next episode if that's okay withyou.
SPEAKER_03 (29:46):
Yeah, that sounds great.
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
All right, join us on the other side, guys.
We'll just give us a couple ofdays and then we'll come back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(30:17):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.ai.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
You heard me talk about it.
I'm gonna keep on talking aboutit because I love it.
I've had about a year and ahalf, 18 months practice with
it, and I still enjoy it.
And it saves me time and itsaves me energy.
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(01:41):
Free.ai, a great service.
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that will save you time andmoney.
And I highly encourage you to doso.
Well, hi everyone, and welcometo episode 240.
This is the third episode of theyear.
In episode 239, we met with JeffDill, who works in Nevada with
(02:04):
the Fire Firefighters,particularly, but it was a great
interview.
I hope you go back and listen tothis.
But I'm very excited to finallymeet someone that I connected
with online like seven monthsago when this comes out in
January.
And she showed up suddenly in mymy sheets.
I do a release for the podcastregularly.
I'm like, who's this?
(02:24):
And she's like, Oh, remember mefrom Facebook?
Like, oh yeah, I do.
And I was actually fascinatedbecause I at the time, I think I
had just asked my first personfrom Alaska who talked about her
experience in Antarctica.
And now I hear she sold out andlives in Washington, so
whatever.
But you know, I'm very happy tomeet with Morgan Yaskis, and I
(02:45):
pronounced that right, toresilience development in
action.
So welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
Thank you.
You did pronounce it right.
Yeah.
And yes, I am still here inAlaska, born and raised.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
You're born and raised in Alaska.
What part of Alaska?
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Well still, I'm about an hour outside of
Anchorage, which is where youwould typically fly into.
Or people who are less familiarwith Alaska know Anchorage
still.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Yeah, I mean, uh I can't say I'm super familiar
with Alaska.
I mean, I I would have been veryimpressed if you told me you
were from the Aleutian Islands,but I guess that's not where
you're from.
SPEAKER_03 (03:17):
It is not.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
You can see or I hear you can see Russia from
there.
But anyway, I got to know you alittle bit pre-interview.
I loved our conversation onlinetoo, and very happy to have you
here.
But the audience might not knowwho you are.
So how about you do a quickintroduction about yourself?
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah.
My name's Morgan.
I'm a licensed professionalcounselor here in Alaska.
I spent the last three years onour mobile crisis team, which
was the first one we've ever hadin the borough that I live in.
So that was really exciting.
And it was ran in kind of aninteresting way, actually.
So it was under the umbrella ofa nonprofit.
Um so I wasn't actuallyconnected to EMS or fire law
(03:58):
enforcement.
And that is how most of theother programs, like in our
Anchorage area, are ran.
And so we had MOUs with all ofthose entities and we worked
alongside them.
And so it was a really greatexperience, but it didn't
necessarily come without itschallenges.
And I think it was greatpractice in terms of building
relationships within like thefirst responder realms because
(04:21):
they they don't just trust youright off the bat and they
shouldn't.
And so I think it just created alot of really great opportunity
uh to practice that relationshipbuilding before I moved to
private practice, which is whereI am now.
And I see children and familiesabout that's probably 60% of my
case load and the other 40%being first responders.
(04:41):
So I don't see any adults inbetween there outside of family
work or first responders.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
Well, you know, I that's why a lot of people like
I know I'm specialized workingas a mental health first
responder person, but I it'sabout 60 to 70% of my case load,
depending on the time of yearand so forth, because with all
due respect to my women and menwho work in the first responder
world, I need a change of pace.
I can't only do that.
(05:05):
So with all due respect to them,that's why I I respect the fact
that you have a balance also.
SPEAKER_03 (05:11):
Fun balance.
I get to play, I do some playtherapy for a couple sessions,
and I get to see the firstresponders and then back and
forth, and it keeps me on mytoes.
I'll say that much.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
So they're very good at keeping us on our toes.
I I think anyway.
But you know, that there's a fewquestions I want to ask.
Well, one of them I was gonnaask you, you know, we we
connected, but it's not like youconnected with me and said, gee,
do you have a podcast?
You kind of wanted to be on thepodcast.
So I don't know what was yourmotivation to come on to the
podcast because I everyone hasdifferent motivations for these
(05:42):
things.
SPEAKER_03 (05:43):
And aside from you just like really looking like a
podcast guy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
Yeah, well, I do look like a podcast.
And the voice, right?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
I think a really important piece of my work and
what I do is that I'm in schoolfor my doctorate right now.
I mean, it's not in clinicalwork, it's in human services
with the focus on communityprevention, intervention, and
advocacy.
So that is all it's a mouthful,but it is very near and dear to
my heart.
And I think a big piece of thatis just speaking out on a lot of
these challenges, the good, thebad, the ugly, and bringing
(06:14):
awareness to it all.
And so I think when I saw yourpost, I was like, wow, this is a
really great opportunity to dothat actually, to just speak
from experience, right?
And not speaking downeducationally, but just speaking
about what challenges I'veexperienced, kind of being in
that that therapist role andalso that first responder role,
and also combining the two andjust the the unique challenges
(06:38):
that we see here in Alaska,because as many people know,
we're a little isolated overhere.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
So well, I blame Canada for that one.
And that's where I'm from.
So all joking aside, I thinkthat that's the great thing
because that's where I startedoff with the community justice
stuff years ago in thenonprofit.
Shout out to advocates for theyears I spent there.
They really formed me.
But it really was, you know, thechallenges of you know
(07:02):
presenting the community serviceto for for you know for we had a
lot of uh people from othercountries.
And I know that's controversialright now, but I don't frankly
care.
But we had to do some education,and the police don't want to
arrest you necessarily, theywant to make sure that you don't
get the living piss kicked outof you.
And they're not looking tonecessarily always put people in
(07:24):
jail if they need support andthey need help for treatment.
I mean, we we worked reallyhard.
You know, we started that in uh2006 and we really graduated.
And I that's one of my passions,so I'm very happy you're gonna
talk about that.
The other thing I wanted to askyou, because this is wasn't in
the questions, but here's yourfirst curveball.
Just welcome to my show.
SPEAKER_03 (07:43):
I'm ready for it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
How do you wake up one day?
And this is what I've been askedthis question, so I always like
it because it's a good question.
What made you decide one day,like, gee, Willakers?
I'm gonna become I'm gonna workin a community, I'm gonna work
the crisis team, and I can'twait to work with first
responders.
Who in the blue hell wakes upand says, I want to do that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
You know, it's something we tell our clients
all the time, right?
It's like you recreate yourchildhood environments.
And then I genuinely think thatactually is my answer.
Like, you know, I used to say,uh, because I work in
residential care for a littlewhile too.
And I used to say, like, I justthrive in chaos.
(08:23):
I just thrive in chaos.
And then I'm pretty sure mytherapist felt me down at one
point and has like, was like,have you thought about why?
You know, and I'm like, no, ofcourse I haven't.
I don't want to go there.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm like, I think we're at timefor today.
I'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
It's the therapist being interviewed by a therapist
sometimes.
We need we have control issueswith that.
But anyway.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
Yeah, right, right.
But I do think that was a pieceof it where I was like, oh, the
chaos felt kind of normal,actually.
But I also am a big believerthat when when you have I gotta
find the right words for this,but when you have this thing
that you're that you'renaturally good at, and it's this
gift that you have that itshould be shared.
And I think as I started workingin the residential space at
(09:11):
first, I did notice that.
And that's not like a toot yourown horn moment, but it was just
I felt okay in those situations.
My my nervous system was able tostay regulated and I was able to
just think really, I think whatI enjoyed most was was being
able to think outside of thebox.
And so then when the talk ofcreating this mobile crisis team
(09:33):
was out, was happening, and Iwas able to join that team.
I got to do that for the nextthree years.
I got to think outside of thebox, and that's what I really
enjoyed.
So being okay in the chaos was apiece of it, but also just the
really I I call it autonomy, butit's not like I really had a
choice of thinking outside ofoutside of the box and really
(09:54):
redefining what it means to meetpeople where they're at.
Because I think truthfully, thatphrase gets used all of the
time, and it's just not alwaystrue in my experience.
We're not often meeting thesepeople where they're at.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
No, because we want the resolution more than we want
to meet them where they're at,and it's learning to go into
resolution while meeting themwhere they're at.
And that's a tricky combo, ifyou ask me.
Um the other thing I want tonote is I know we're we're
there's a little difference inage here, but I started
residential and then I worked ona crisis team for about 15 years
(10:28):
among other jobs during thattime.
And uh now I'm in privatepractice.
So I feel like there's a lot ofparallels in our careers, and I
I find that very particularlyinteresting.
But yeah, I think that, youknow, when you talk about
helping the community, one ofthe things I'm sure you saw when
you worked on a mobile crisisteam is that not only is the
community needing help, butsometimes those guys would or
(10:49):
gals, I'm not trying to begender discriminatory here, but
they would open up to youbecause of like uh the stuff
they deal with.
I don't know if that was yourexperience, but certainly
happened with me.
SPEAKER_03 (11:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think a lot of times it wasthe first time in a long time,
maybe ever, that there wassomebody else there that might
get it.
Somebody that they're notspending 24 hours a day with,
right?
But yeah, I think that wasabsolutely a part of it.
And it it gave them, you know,our our team exists and gave
them a space to to process someof these these things, whether
(11:22):
they realize that's what washappening or not.
But really, like our our debriefsystem is maybe not the greatest
out here either.
I think we're really trying.
I think they're really trying.
But uh Alaska's really known forbeing behind the game in a lot
of ways.
Like anything that happens,we'll get there five to ten
years later.
And I think this is one of thosethings that we're getting to,
(11:45):
but we're not there yet.
And so we were able to bribridge that gap a little bit for
them too, of of being there fordebriefs or leading the
debriefs, or just staffingdifferent different questions
where and and I'll get into thisa little bit later, but where
they were just on on scenes thatit was not a medical issue or it
wasn't a police issue.
And like, what can we do?
(12:06):
Because before they just theyhad nobody to ask that.
They just had to figure it outor not.
Well, and then everyone's mad atthat regardless.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Well, yeah, well, I mean, I can go on and on about
that.
Like, you know, you're atherapist, so you know as much
as I do, there's shittytherapists out there, but they
don't get the get the front pageof the newspaper and be on ABC
World News every night.
But one cop does somethingreally bad in Iowa, sorry for
picking on Iowa, then suddenlyall cops from Alaska to Hawaii
and on the mainland are allshitty.
(12:35):
And that's one of the uniquechallenges that I find is that
they don't do that in any otherprofession.
And I think there's somediscrimination there.
You talk about community stuff.
I always tell people like, we wedon't want everyone who's uh you
know, whatever ethnicity, genderwant to be treated the same way,
but somehow we're allowed totreat cops all the same way,
which seems to be quitediscriminatory, if you ask me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Uh and having someone like us who is able to
talk about it and seen somestuff, because when you go to
work on a crisis team, you dosee stuff that maybe the regular
population or civilians, as Ilike to call them, do not see.
And I think that really helpsthem to relate to you, probably,
and also make them like, oh, shecan maybe get this shit.
SPEAKER_03 (13:20):
I think too that that when you have that lived
experience in the realm, or oreven like as a spouse of such
too, there's there's a greatersense of felt safety because
they don't feel like they haveto prove themselves to you,
right?
That they're not a bad guy.
unknown (13:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
And I think that makes a big difference in the
line of work when you when youhave had that experience.
Cause I could not imagine, youknow, like you're talking about
these news headlines andexperiencing that and being
grouped into that and having togo to a therapist where you're
like, okay, I want help.
And then feeling the need toprove yourself that I am not
like them.
I'm not a bad guy.
(13:59):
Right?
It shouldn't be that way, but itis often.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
It's usually like that.
And it's also like therapistswho are not experienced.
I talk about cultural competencyfor first responder therapists
as being essential because howmany cops have come to me and or
firefighters have said, youknow, they wanted me to tell
them their worst story, theworst story I ever had.
Like, well, that's gossipingnumber one.
And number two, who the fuckwants to talk about that,
(14:23):
therapy or not?
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve, this is this is actuallykind of mind blowing to me
because I wrote that exactsentence down in my notes for
today.
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Which one?
SPEAKER_03 (14:34):
Where I was like, I want to talk about this.
The amount of clients I've hadthat have come to me and said
that a past therapist has justwanted their war stories.
Right.
Or like they're doing an intakeand they're like, oh my gosh,
you must see really horriblethings.
And they're like, Well, yeah, noshit.
And then their next question islike, what's what's the worst
call you've ever been on?
And like, oh my gosh, what inthe world?
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I mean, it and it's that's the stuff that you know,
you talk about that stuff.
I this is why we need thecultural competency.
Well, we can talk about that alittle later on if you want to.
Yeah.
But you know, when you haveexperience as a crisis clinician
and you work side by side withthem, there's a whole different
dynamic, I feel, happens.
Not because you saw horribleshit.
(15:18):
Well, we do, but that's not thepoint.
It's the point of, oh, okay,maybe they're one of us, so to
speak.
We may not be quote firstresponders, but we're certainly
one of them in the sense that wedo need to deal with that and
we're not horrified all thetime.
And sometimes we have darkhumor.
I think the other part too is Ijoke around that therapists who
don't work with our field won'tunderstand the dark jokes we
(15:40):
make.
SPEAKER_03 (15:41):
No.
Yeah, I think I completelyagree.
SPEAKER_01 (15:44):
I would I I mean, we haven't responded in that way,
but I'm sure you have a coupleof really dark jokes.
And we we have a bunch of peopleI'm working on with a group to
vet people who are firstresponder therapists who are
actually competent at doing so.
And that's one of the questions.
Tell us your darkest humor joke.
And if it's not dark enough, wedon't want you.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
That's fair.
So because not only like youknow, you don't have to dish it
out per se as a therapisttherapist, but you have to be
able to understand it and nottry to like pathologize it,
which is like what I feel likehappens.
Well, where's that coming from?
Well, let me tell you, it'scoming from these horrible
experiences I've had for thelast 10 years.
Let's be real.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Well, you you just said you said it yourself, you
know, why do we do that as thelike a therapist?
And when you go see yourtherapist, and like, you know,
you're recreating, right?
I'm like, yeah, I'm not here forthat.
Actually, yes, that's whatyou're doing in therapy.
But yeah, we we do fit fit ourpast, right?
And that's what it is, is thatwe're trying to fix our past too
with that stuff.
But that's just my experiencegrowing up, like for me, the
(16:46):
other motivator for working withfirst respond, not only is it
the language I speak, because Imight be in a white-collar job,
but I'm not exactly Mr.
Big Words, that's not my thing.
Especially this is my secondlanguage, so it's even worse.
But I think it's also being ableto meet people.
And if you didn't grow up with ablue-collar type of man like
background, I think it's reallyhard to understand what they go
(17:09):
through and what the job is.
SPEAKER_03 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
But you know, I think that what when you work on
a crisis team like that, I Imean, I I'm sure that there's a
lot of stuff that happens whereyou have some challenges, right?
When I worked, we talked priorto the interview.
When I worked in Vermont,getting first responders to go
to therapy was already achallenge.
Finding a therapist was even abigger challenge, and finding a
therapist that's what was withinan hour.
(17:34):
This is before telehealth, waseven bigger.
I mean, I was in Vermont in2009.
Telehealth was barely existingat that point, and so it's
really hard.
I mean, have you had any firsthand experiences on how to work
with first responders, orparticularly with the trauma and
accessing mental care mentalhealth care because it's so
(17:54):
difficult?
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
Not in 2009 because I was 11 then.
But more recently.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (18:03):
Oh man.
I think there's a couple.
And I think the reality isthey're probably not unique to
just Alaska.
I'm sure people in other placesare gonna be like, yeah, we
experience that too.
So I think it's more maybeunique to small towns, right?
And I think here in in theborough, you know, Alaska is
known for being a big state, butwe're not very populated.
(18:23):
So Wasilla, where I live, hasjust over 13,000 people.
And then in the entire Matsuborough, which is the area that
that we served there, which Imight get to say wrong in this,
but I'm pretty sure it's biggerthan West Virginia, is what I've
been told, our borough.
And it has about 110,000residents.
So that means really, wheneveranything happens in this
(18:47):
community, even if you're notthe first responder involved in
it, you still hear about it.
Andor you know the peopleinvolved.
You know, so the same firstresponder who's pulling
individuals from a car accident,it is not unlikely for them to
then pass that family in thegrocery store a couple days
(19:07):
later or be related to them,right?
Or have known them from highschool.
And I think that is notnecessarily unique to Alaska per
se, but it is unique to those,the really small towns.
And that that level of proximityand responsibility, I think,
adds another layer of emotionalcomplexity that you don't always
(19:27):
see in the larger systems.
I'm sure it's there, but I thinkyou see it more in these smaller
systems because the challengeper se isn't just lack of access
to care.
It's just like the double bindof it's the same people that are
telling you, you know, likeyou're the one who holds the
line, we rely on you, you're thestrong one, we're calling you
for help.
But also you should ask for helpif you need it.
(19:49):
And so the moment that they try,there's there's this double
bind.
There's there's tension, right?
Or the moment they want to try.
And I think in Alaska, in myarea specifically, privacy, it's
it's a long time.
And community ties run deep, andthat's a great thing about
living in a small town.
But it also creates almost likean identity crisis.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:09):
And because you know, if you if you speak up,
people will know.
It's likely people will know.
And if you stay quiet, you're atrisk of being under all of this
weight, right?
So it's it's this no-winsituation that really traps, I
think, helping professions,first responders most
specifically, between the rolethat they play in the community
and the human that they are.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And you I I love that because that's exactly what
I just had a conversation today,actually, with a client of mine,
where, you know, I do want mypolice officers to be ready for
the worst case scenario.
But then I'm like, okay, whenyou get home, I want you to be
balanced.
And they're like, what?
I didn't say it that way, butyou get the point.
It's really botany.
(20:52):
And you talk about small townsand small counties.
You know, I'm not only Vermont.
I remember a few years ago I wasinterviewed somewhere on uh I on
uh Fox here in a local station.
There was a murder suicide withtwo kids in a particularly small
town.
You can look it up if you wantto.
I just don't need to give thedetails.
Uh they interviewed me and theysaid, What do you think the
(21:12):
difficulty is?
I said, It's a small town, sothey all know each other, and
highly likely the firstresponders who responded have a
kid or have someone they knowthat knows that kid, and that
makes it even harder to processall that stuff because you're
supposed to be the authority,you're the cop, you're the
firefighter, you're theparamedic EMT, whatever, it
don't matter to me.
Uh and then you got your ownshit that comes from that.
(21:34):
And where do you go?
You can't turn to someone inAbington because there's an
exposure thing.
I'm picking on Abington, butwhatever town, right?
Because even in Massachusetts, Iknow you you're a little
familiar with Massachusetts, youknow, there's Boston, but then
there's like Greenfield, whichis in western mass, it's fairly
isolated, it's not too far fromAmherst, but it's like 5,000,
(21:57):
6,000 people.
And I don't think it's a uniquechallenge for Alaska.
I think that every like you goto New York State, everyone says
New York State, uh New YorkCity.
I don't know if you've ever beento Poughkeepsie, but that's
pretty isolated.
You go to Syracuse, it's notlike it's right in the you get
snow like you do in Alaska andCanada.
And I think that there's theseunique challenges in every state
(22:18):
in this country, and frankly, inNorth America, where yeah, sure,
New York City is different,Boston's different, LA's
different.
I get that.
But we all have smaller areas.
You go to California, you end upin Dead Valley.
There's a lot of smallcommunities there that everyone
knows everyone's business.
And who do you turn to?
The therapist who went on thecall with you, and that seems
even more exposing, if you askme.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Right.
Yeah, the the issue of it, youknow, it does absolutely run
deeper because it's it'snaturally going to be closer to
home because there's only somany people in this town, right?
And the the flip side of it toois that there's this
confidentiality issue.
And as much as I wish that therewasn't, there is.
That's the reality, right?
Like and you know, bring realityonto this podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Please keep on making me very well.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
It's it's kind of nice in there sometimes, but you
know, my office, for example, islike central Wasilla area and
it's discreet, it's it's tuckedaway, thankfully, but it's
located right between ourcentral EMS fire station and our
police department.
So I mean when you think aboutlike Alaska, I'm gonna pick on
(23:29):
this a little bit that peoplelike to drive very specific
vehicles that are perhapsrecognizable in a town where
that's the case and in a fieldwhere everyone else knows your
schedule, right?
Like just parking outside of atherapist's office can feel like
a threat to your privacy.
I mean, I'm I'm tucked away.
(23:49):
I'm like, in we don't actuallyhave alleyways, I think, like in
my borough, but it's like asclose as you could get to one.
And that's helpful, right?
And and I tried to, you know,minimize signage.
And I actually got got introuble for that recently by
insurance companies.
They didn't appreciate that,even after I explained why.
But yeah, even just parkingoutside of the office can feel
like a threat to privacy.
(24:10):
And I actually got curious lastnight and I searched because I
end up referring people to otherproviders that are that are
telehealth because I just didn'tknow of any in my area.
And I grew up in this area.
So you'd think you'd think I'dknow.
But I didn't.
And I I ended up looking it upand I was like, oh, this is why
I never knew the money becausethere's two.
(24:31):
There's literally two in-persontherapists in the area that
explicitly say that they theywork with first responders.
There's probably others thatwill from you know, on a
case-by-case basis, perhaps, butthere's two that explicitly
stated that.
And based on their public bios,neither appear to have lived
experience with the firstresponder culture, which I
(24:53):
really do believe matters morethan people realize.
However, like I said, that I wasjust going off public
information.
I don't actually know.
But all this to say, there'sthere's two.
And in a town where everybodyknows everybody, the reality is
even if there are more, there'dbe so much conflict of interest.
I have that all of the time.
Conflict of interest come upthat makes it bordering
(25:13):
unethical to serve theseindividuals, sometimes depending
on your licensing board and howyou want to look at that.
But it's the reality of livingin a small town.
You can't really get around it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
I mean, I I can go on about ethics around that for
a long time because while I getwhat the LPCs and the LMHCs and
the L I CSWs of the world needto say, I worked in a small time
in Vermont where there was meand like seven other therapists.
So we ended up seeing familymembers of family members.
And if you do yourconfidentiality very clearly and
you set those limits andboundaries, there is ways to do
(25:45):
it in an ethical way.
I know the LPCs and the LMHCs inthe world right now went and it
gasped, but I really don't carein the sense that we need like
sometimes you don't have achoice, it's just what it is.
And I when you work with firstresponders, this is the other
part too, right?
You can tell me if I'm wrong.
It's I'm assuming Alaska'sexactly the same.
My name, I don't if I stopadvertising everything, not a
(26:08):
website, not nothing.
I know that I would still getphone calls because they're
like, oh, department Hollistonis where I'm at.
Oh, the guy, the the detectivein Holliston told me to call you
and I'm in Amherst.
I don't know anyone in Amherst,so that's why I'm trying to use
a town I don't know.
And they're like, Oh, okay, Ihear you're competent.
(26:29):
I always joke around and I say,Don't tell don't listen to lies.
I'm really, really bad.
Because now you're gonna expecta lot of results.
I don't want that.
But the joke, all joking aside,it it it is an ethical dilemma
for some, but for me, I'vedecided that it's uh if you set
the limits and the boundariespretty quickly, and for me it's
pretty easy, you might work inthe same department.
(26:49):
You ask me any questions aboutanyone that you know is seeing
me, you're gone.
I'm not negotiating with you,I'm not giving you a second
chance, you're gone.
And I think there's ways to dothat.
I know the LPCs would sayborderline uh crossing
boundaries.
I mean, you can set goodboundaries and not cross them.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
You know, we have a duty too, as I'm I'm an LPC, and
if it's between a possibleconflict of interest from a
scene I worked five years agowith this individual, or no
service at all, then I think wehave a duty to serve.
And I will argue that till theday I die, and hopefully I don't
have to, but I will if I needto.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
I it a hundred percent.
I mean, that happened inVermont.
Even here it happens, but I I'mvery clear.
And if someone's safety is athand, I'm not going, that's a
conflict of interest.
How about you go hurt?
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
Can't help you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
Go hurt.
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
I'm not doing that.
So if uh the LMHC board inMassachusetts or the LPC boards
in Alaska want to call me, goahead, please do.
I will I will fight that to thedeath anyway.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
Let's chat.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
Yeah.
The other part too is that, youknow, before I think we're gonna
wrap up and go for another halfhour because this we're just
starting here.
The one thing I wanted to askyou and maybe throw out and
something, you know, as ofJanuary 2026, we now have the
interstate compact stuff that wecan finally do now.
And I believe Alaska is part ofit.
SPEAKER_03 (28:13):
I'm not a hundred percent sure, but no, not not
officially in an officialcapacity yet.
And I don't know, I'll I'd haveto do a little bit more digging,
but I don't have a lot of faiththat Alaska will jump into that
actually, because this is ashorrible as it sounds.
I think it comes down to a ratesissue, is what I kept reading.
Because our cost of living inAlaska is higher and our we're
(28:36):
typically reimbursed at a higherrate for those that accept
insurance.
And so from the things that I'veread lately, that's really what
it's coming down to, or some notwhat it's coming down to, but
it's a lot of the pushback is ifAlaska were to join, then we
would have significantly lowerrates of reimbursement.
So this is just another step oflike insurance companies want to
(28:57):
fuck us, but right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
That's Massachusetts said the exact same thing
because we have higher livingcost of living, yeah.
Cola here.
So that's why they're notjoining.
And I'm like, that's bullshit.
Because don't tell me that LAdoesn't have a high cost of
living.
You live in Hawaii or Alaska,you gotta get everything
delivered to you, and that's alot of like that's a high cost
(29:20):
of living.
South Dakota, okay, I get it.
Okay, South Dakota is a littledifferent.
I'm not picking on them, justgiving an example.
But don't tell me that Dallasdoesn't have a high cost of
living.
Don't tell me that Miamidoesn't.
Yeah.
It's a lot of horseshit.
But anyway, I I believe that weneed to work on getting
interstate compact across thecountry for us.
But as we I'm gonna wrap uphere, and I want us if it's okay
(29:42):
with you, we're gonna go to thenext question probably in the
next episode if that's okay withyou.
SPEAKER_03 (29:46):
Yeah, that sounds great.
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
All right, join us on the other side, guys.
We'll just give us a couple ofdays and then we'll come back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(30:17):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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