November 25, 2025 • 29 mins
As we continue the conversation with Lisa, Trusas. Stigma is a quiet siren—it keeps people from asking for help, and it teaches the rest of us to look away. We open up about what addiction really looks like inside emergency services and at home, from dispatch centers and correctional facilities to ERs and patrol rooms. We talk about growing up in households where chaos felt normal, why “functioning alcoholic” gets a pass while heroin use gets a scarlet letter, and how the words we choose either build bridges or burn them.
You’ll hear how one honest admission inside a department transformed the room: jokes faded, questions surfaced, and colleagues started asking how to help their loved ones. We unpack the trap of “it’s legal, so it’s fine,” whether it’s alcohol, vaping, benzos, or 3 a.m. sports betting. We also dig into the system-level barriers—insurance limits, AMA discharges, closed youth detox beds—that make recovery harder than it needs to be. And we highlight practical steps anyone can take: use person-first language, speak privately when you’re worried, leverage peer-to-peer centers, and know the basics of getting someone into detox or a civil commitment when it’s the safest option.
Addiction doesn’t care about uniforms or titles. It shows up as compulsion, secrecy, and a deep fear of being seen. Recovery shows up as patience, multiple tries, and small moments of courage—the text that arrives months later, the hand held at the right time, the story that makes someone feel less alone. If you’re ready to trade labels for listening and shame for support, this conversation offers tools, perspective, and hope. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more people find real help without the noise.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development and
Action with Steve Beast Home.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, higher, EMS,discounters, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
You know you've heard me talk about this before.
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(00:51):
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Well, hi, and welcome to thisbonus episode.
We'll figure out the number byone point.
(01:13):
With um resilience developmentin action, but more importantly,
with someone I truly uh love,adore, and love talking to is
Lisa Trousis.
Um Lisa, you know, we talkedabout this patch, and I I will
tell the audience and I will saythe same thing to you.
I wanted people to hear the realthing about this patch.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And I will never ever forget to mention my
dispatch people.
And I told you before anyinterview that I think we got to
figure out a way to not call itfirst responders, but maybe
emergency responders.
Because I think of my dispatchsometimes not being included.
I think about my ER nurses anddoctors, and I work with those
too.
(01:56):
And that's not first line, butit's first line and a half,
maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (02:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
And let's not forget people who do first responder
hospital and law enforcement allat the same time, the
correctional staff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
You know, we're right in Milford here.
There's the correctional unionon the other side.
Shout out to them.
I've worked with DOC, I'veworked with many counties, but
they're emergency people,because I've been there when
there's an emergency, it's notlike they're like, well, let's
call the ambulance.
No, they're the ambulance.
Um, transport afterwards, I getthat.
But um the bottom line is that Ithink that that's the best
(02:31):
encompassing word aboutemergency responders.
Um but getting off that soapboxfor a little more, the other
passion that me and you share issubstance use.
Not that we indulge too much init.
unknown (02:44):
Kidding, kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Um but the bottom line is that, you know, I grew
up with a family with substanceuse.
I have my first job out of mymaster's was a substance abuse
coordinator, and that's like2003.
And before that, I was workingwith people who are dually
diagnosed in the community.
And if you think that substanceuse doesn't affect your life,
(03:07):
you're full of shit.
And I need to say that likethat, and I know it's gonna be
bleeped out, I don't care,because it's the truth.
We all deal with it.
Whether you turn your blind eyeto that, that's another story.
But I know that that's a passionthat you have, that's a passion
I have.
Um we can tie it a little bit tothe first responder world
because it's definitely presentthere.
(03:28):
Um but I'd like to hear moreabout your personal story in
regards to that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
So my father, brother, and soon-to-be
ex-husband are all in recoverycurrently.
Um, but they were allhemorrhagomadics.
And growing up with my father asan alcoholic in addict, I
thought it was normal.
I thought the partying wasnormal.
I thought the way of life wasnormal.
(03:54):
Um I'm not too sure when Iofficially found out he was an
addict, my father.
Um, I think it was after myhusband at the time came clean
to me and said he was an addict.
And I think that's when I foundout my father was and my
(04:16):
brother.
And this was 20 years after, youknow, I was in my 20s.
Every emotion possible.
And I didn't know how to handleit.
I was clueless.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
If you were my client and said, of course you
didn't know what to how tohandle it because this was
normal.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
You know, again, to tie it a little bit to the first
responder world, how many ofguys you know and gals, not
trying to be discriminatoryhere, um, who have not the same
but similar backgrounds?
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
And they thought it was normal?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Like, I it's fascinating to me what people
thought were normal.
And I think that that's whathappens with substance use.
Of course, my dad offered mecocaine at 14.
That's what we had in the house.
Of course, it's okay for dad tobe passed out all the time.
That's what happens in my house.
And I remember a particularwoman I worked with, her father
(05:26):
was in the was a law enforcementperson.
And for it took me to tell her,it's not normal for strange men
to be in your room when you werea teenager.
But I thought that was normal.
No, it's not.
So you accept because ofsubstance use, because of the
stuff that goes on, your normalis the normal that most people
(05:47):
don't quite comprehend.
Oh no, I gotta go wake up my dadbecause I know he's gonna be
passed out when I get home.
What?
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Right.
I think too, what which uh Ithink the stigmatism between
alcohol and drugs, thatstigmatism is completely
separate too.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
I think more and more nowadays it's normal to be
a functioning alcoholic.
But God forbid you're a drugaddict, you're addicted to
heroin, fentanyl, cocaine,benzos, you're a horrible human
being.
Well, what about the alcoholics?
They have it's an addiction.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
I think that the addiction part is so difficult,
particularly for firstresponders.
And again, I think that theculture with this generation
that's coming out, for better orfor worse, in different ways,
one of the things they've reallychanged is uh I think I was
talking to someone here todayabout how the Gen Z population
is a little more conscious abouttheir drinking and their habits
(06:53):
with that.
Unfortunately, they can poppills.
And Adderall and benzos and umparticularly the other one that
people don't like to talk aboutis vaping, is all normalized.
Because, oh, it's anxiety med.
Of course you can take 17clonopins in a day.
(07:14):
Well, benzodiazepine and alcoholis the only two that you can die
from withdrawals.
And yes, people will argue theother ones are not great.
I didn't say they were great, Isaid that you can't die from it.
Um that happens in ourdepartments, happens in our own
lives.
SPEAKER_03 (07:31):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
And then we replicate, and then this is the
point I want to make.
You hide something in yourfamily because who wants the
alcoholic father, aunt, drugaddict, uncle, cousin, sister,
brother?
So you hide that.
So you get to a policedepartment, you get a fire
(07:52):
department, they have the sameproblems.
What's your instincts?
Well, we hid it in my family.
How do we change that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
So I actually, obviously, for years I hid it.
I had to listen to policeofficers and firefighters and
other first responders,including myself, you know, use
the slang words, derogatory, youknow, the junkies, the this, the
(08:21):
that.
And finally, after severalyears, I got the courage to tell
the people I work with that myfather, brother, and soon-to-be
ex-husband were heroin addicts.
Because I was hoping to shed alittle light, hoping to show
(08:44):
them that their family don'tdidn't choose this way of life.
And we're still supportive, assupportive as we can be.
And it's hard to be on the otherside of it listening to these
horrible things.
So once I was finallycomfortable, I was I finally
(09:07):
admitted it, you know, here andthere to some of the people I
worked with, because they're myfamily.
I've been there for 20 years, II'm at least there 40 hours a
week, if not more.
They're my family.
And I slowly told people, and alot of people are shocked.
And then I have noticed overtime they have become, I guess,
(09:40):
more or less stigmatized againstit, and they will come to me and
ask questions.
Um, I have had several peoplecome to me and ask questions in
regards to their significantothers.
Um, but the rest of thedepartment doesn't know.
So I'm glad I said something tomaybe spark that conversation,
(10:04):
to maybe open somebody else'seyes, or to let somebody know
that like I've been through it.
I didn't have anybody to gothrough it then.
It was awful.
I didn't have anybody to talkto, you can talk to me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
And I applaud you doing that.
Um sign note um there's a fewpeople I work with who go to
their departments, and I'm nolonger my therapist says, it's
Steve said.
And even though that sounds verytrivial for some people, the
fact that they talk about itopenly and people know by me by
(10:41):
name is how much we've grown inthis field.
Does it happen often?
I'm not, I don't know.
I have no clue, but there'sthree people in particular that
go around like, you know whatSteve said to me about that?
And I love that.
And we talk about substanceabuse.
I think mental health has beengetting more accepting.
Substance abuse has always beenaccepted as long as it's
(11:03):
alcohol.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (11:05):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
Because if not, they're junkies, they're uh pill
addicts, they're I can thinkabout other things that I want
to keep from uh being bleepedout here.
We still stigmatize more, in myopinion, what we would consider
harder drug addiction, and I putthat in quotation, and you bring
(11:27):
the light to that.
But I think that what we need todo is the overall general
population is needs tounderstand.
I don't mind if someone puts Iperson died unexpectedly, but
please be honest about what'shappening in real life because
you're only perpetuating thestigma of substance use.
(11:49):
I think what's the number?
I think it's 40 millionAmericans uh will be addicted at
some point.
I can't remember the exactnumbers, like like 12.5% of the
population.
And then lifetime, we're lookingat about 80% of Americans.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
I believe it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
And that includes behavioral addictions, you know,
porn, gambling, stuff like that.
And don't start me on porn andgambling in the police and
fireworld.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Addiction comes in all shapes and sizes, all forms.
It can be anything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
Or power.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
And it's the same thing as a heroin addict, a
cocaine addict, an alcoholic.
Your addiction to porn or tovideo games or food or gambling
is all the same addiction.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
I might have ch um shared this on the podcast if I
haven't, but one of my mo we welegalized gambling a few years
ago on sports.
But there was one of my guys whocame in and said, I was up all
night, came in early.
He had worked a second shift,stayed up all night because he
had to watch the ping pong inNorth Korea or South Korea,
(13:04):
whatever the hell it was,because he had money on it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:08):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
And I'm like, don't you think that's an addiction?
No, it's legal.
Like, alcohol's legal.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
Alcohol's been legal for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Right.
And I think that that's where itbecomes a uh appropriate vice
because it's legal.
So not only do we have stigma,we have this legality crap.
SPEAKER_03 (13:29):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
You know, oh, marijuana is legal, so do you
want me to be high while I'mdoing this interview or when I'm
working?
Because that's legal.
Well, no, that's stupid.
Oh, that's stupid, but you'rebetting on Korean ping pong in
at three o'clock in the morning.
Because that's the only thingyou can bet on.
Which one's most addicted?
SPEAKER_03 (13:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
So how do we bring that up to people?
Because that's the other part,too.
And I think you talk about thestigma.
Um, I don't have a problembecause people come to see me,
so if someone I think peoplehave an addiction, pretty easy
for me to bring up.
In my personal life, sometimesthat's a little harder.
And I'm trained in this stuff,but in my personal life, there's
a difficulty with that.
(14:12):
And when I worked in a job whereI was interacting with many
people, sometimes you'd seesomething, but you wouldn't say
anything because again, I hateto say it, there's a little bit
of a jail mentality there.
I don't want to be the snitch.
How do we work on that?
How do we change that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:33):
I I wish I knew the answer to that.
I think the more we educate, themore we talk about it.
And I don't want to say we'renormalizing addiction, but I
think it's bringing light toeverybody that somebody in your
family has an addiction of somesort.
(14:53):
I I don't care who you are,somebody in your family has some
sort of addiction.
And I think it's just education,bringing light to it, awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
And making sure that people can talk to you.
And, you know, that's why wehave all the services that we
try to put everywhere else.
But I I've known you not onlyfrom police, but community
impact, Chris's corner.
Um, and I know all that workthat you do there, and it's an
(15:26):
amazing work, and Amy Leone issomeone I really truly
appreciate and adore.
Do you bring some of thatopenness to the police
department in regards to thatbecause you work both jobs?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
I do, and I think I think it's easier, not easier,
but I think I can relate to alot of our callers, you know,
the parent who is looking forhelp for their child, you know,
and and up until recently,police officers and fire
department had no idea what totell them.
(16:04):
They had no idea.
And I'm able to at least explainto them maybe what a section 35
is, explain to them how to getinto detox and have that
conversation, or take theirphone number and say, I'll, you
know, let me call you back onthe side.
Or here's my number.
If you need anything, let meknow.
SPEAKER_03 (16:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
That has been, I think, very helpful.
Very helpful.
Because they they know they'renot alone.
unknown (16:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
And I think that that's the highest part is that
people think they're alone.
Um you bring up something thatI'm gonna bring a little bit of
a spin to this, and if that'sokay with you.
That's great when you havefamily members that love you,
who want to work on a Section 35in Massachusetts.
(16:54):
There's different names foracross the country, but we'll
talk about Massachusetts.
Someone who wants to actuallydrive you to the whatever detox
you want to go to.
Or even better, sometimes peopleneed to go to the airport to fly
to Palms, try to do a little bitof the geographical cure, which
by the way, usually does notwork.
(17:15):
Um, but what what if you don'thave any family?
You know, how do we work thosethings?
Because there's times where, andeven you do have family, but
they like, how many times haveyou gone, like I know you don't
go to calls, I don't go to callsanymore, but I how many times
like I had no clue when theyOD'd on, you know, fentanyl?
(17:36):
Or they uh, oh, it's justcocaine, except it was laced
with fentanyl and their heartstopped, and you got narcandom
and the whole nine yards.
And then the family's soembarrassed they never want to
talk about it.
So to me, those are theequivalent.
If you don't have any family orfamily who want to ignore the
problem, that's pretty bad.
How do you deal with people whoneed that help without sounding
(17:58):
like, you know, uh, for lack ofa better word, be on the pulpit
and go, do you need to do this?
Because that's the hard part forme.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
Yeah.
I think it's more peer-to-peer.
I think that's what a lot of usat the at Chris's corner, which
is a recovery resource center,we're peer-to-peer.
We don't have any title, wedon't have authority.
So we have that easier way totalk to somebody.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Yeah.
And I think that what Amy hasdone, true Jag through Community
Impact, now Chris's corner.
And then not to mention thepartial that she does with uh
New England Medical Group.
And then the house and thehousing.
(18:49):
She's done a wonderful job inMilford to break those walls.
But I'll be truthful with you.
I know a lot of people are like,that's great, but she's just
helping junkies.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
Yes, I've heard that many times.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
I know, I want to put it out there.
Yep.
And obviously, in if anybodydoubts, you can see how much we
work together.
You know how much I love Amy.
It's not me saying that, butdefinitely her that many times.
I worked in Framingham when wewere doing a lot of mental
health and substance abuseeducation in the community.
And everyone's like, that'sgreat, not in my backyard.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
I think a lot of people don't understand how many
people it truly affects.
Right.
And they don't understand howdeep somebody's addiction is
because they can hide it.
And for those junkies that weretrying to help, they might not
have anybody.
(19:47):
They may have lost all theirfamily due to death or due to,
you know, a reason because oftheir substance abuse.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Burning their bridges over time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
But eventually somebody gets to the point of
hitting their rock bottom.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
And eventually somebody needs that hand to
hold, that helping hand just tohelp give them a little push.
Um, working with Amy for solong, you know, her being one of
my best friends, we've beensaid, we've been called so many
things because we work with thepolice.
(20:23):
We work for the DEA, we'resnitches, we're this, we're
that.
That's not what we're about.
Yes, I work for the police, butI'm here to help.
We're all here to help.
We're not here to rat anybodyout.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
The language I use in therapy is that I'm not here
to rat anyone out.
If anything, I'll do everythingto protect it.
Not only because that's theHIPAA, for me, it's what's
important as human beings.
I break your confidentiality, Ibreak my trust with you and nine
other people.
Because you're gonna go andlike, hey, Steve's a so I've
(20:59):
never seen that happen at thelevel with you guys, and that's
what people don't quiteunderstand.
I will call 911 at the lastpossible resort for several
reasons.
A, hospitals don't necessarilywork.
Detox is voluntary, so peopledon't want to go.
But more importantly, I workwith you guys.
I don't want to be calling youfor unruly stuff unless I
(21:22):
really, really, really have to.
I've got to be down, or I've gotto be like deep and say, look, I
can't take this.
But you need to be able to reachout when you the person gets
above and beyond what theyshould be.
So I don't want to call thatsnitches.
And I don't call them junkies.
(21:43):
I call it someone who's des sodesperate for help, doesn't know
how to ask.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
And I think they get they're so ashamed of the life
they've lived for so many years.
That they're, like you said,they're too scared to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
The average stay, like d I don't know if you know
the stat.
So across the country.
How many stints and detox beforeyou get a whole year sober?
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
A lot.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Seven across the country.
You know what the stat is for inMassachusetts.
Thirteen.
Yes, my THs are hard.
I've said that to you before.
The reason why they explain thatis that in Massachusetts there's
this ability to go get somehelp, but there's this ability
(22:34):
to leave against medical adviceor AMA regularly.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
And I think another issue that will not be brought
up here, because it's a wholecan of worms, is insurance.
Insurance kicks them out afterthree days, four days, or they
have a certain kind of insurancethat one place three hours away
takes.
What good is that?
For right now, the only juveniledetox facility that was open in
(23:04):
Massachusetts is closed.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
And I'm sorry, but we have heroin addicts who are
13, 14, 15, 16, 17.
Now what?
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
And if you ask me, the teenagers who go for
treatment are the ones who aregoing to break the cycle long
term.
They're not because they startedyounger, they're worse.
And if anything, they're like,oh crap, this is out of control.
But we don't do that.
And I think Worcester had onefor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
That's yeah.
And they just shut downresearch.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
They just shut down.
I know Westboro tried to do onetoo.
I'm not naming companies.
And they shut down.
This is I'm I've been in thisfield too long, so 10, 15 years
now.
Um I think that we need to justmake substance abuse what it is.
And the reason why, while thisis a mental health for first
(23:53):
responder podcast, I think it'simportant to talk about
substance abuse because it's nota first responder issue.
It's a community issue.
Because you calling themwhatever name when you see them,
what did you really accomplish?
You felt a little better fortreating someone who's
struggling like crap?
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
Kicking them while they're down.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
And there's days it's hard for me too.
I remember a guy coming in atthe ER every Saturday, the
second week of the month, afterhe spent all his money on it,
would want detox.
And I can't tell you thatthere's I can tell you that for
most part I did it, I wouldstill talk to him and this and
that.
But is there a day I threw alist at him, like, hey, are you
(24:38):
suicidal?
Let's move on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
Because we are humans.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Right.
And that's the hardest part, isthat I don't think that that's
the singular reason people don'tcome back for help.
But how many of us blameourselves for that?
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
I had that recently.
Somebody called me, I couldn'tanswer the phone, the next day
she relapsed.
It's I know deep down it's notmy fault.
But I still had that guilt.
Right.
And I think the majority of usin the field would have that
guilt too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
We care.
SPEAKER_02 (25:15):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
And the stuff that, you know, you've been around
many years too.
I tell people like I have moreoverdoses, that's on my record
than you can possibly imagine.
And I'm not gonna name namesbecause it's illegal.
But how many of them do I thinkabout every single week?
I'm not gonna exaggerate thatit's daily, but week and see
(25:39):
their faces.
unknown (25:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
So, you know, I give you a lot of credit for lifting
the stigma within yourdepartment.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
I give you and your team and Amy Leone a lot of
credit.
I was at the opiate overdose uhawareness day at the end of
August because you bothered meto be there.
Yes, I did, but I wasn't there.
I know.
I was there now.
Um thank you for putting it outthere.
I've been some kind of open withmost of my clients, and I don't
(26:11):
know how many times I mention itif I did on the podcast, but I
had my own struggles withalcohol.
And I've changed thankfully.
But I know that that monster isthere forever.
I'm one bad day away from sayingJack Daniels is now my best
friend.
He was never my best friend, butif I get to a certain point, I
(26:33):
know that may happen.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Yep.
I had a client tell me that hisfirst love was heroin.
And that's the only thing heloved for years.
And as somebody who's not anaddict, that's a scary thought.
But it's reality.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
I'm gonna finish on this before we wrap up here.
I think you get so deep into theaddiction that you know you're
doing the wrong thing, but theonly person that doesn't judge
you is the next substance you'regonna use.
Most of my friends from Canadawho who knew me then are shocked
(27:18):
about those things.
They didn't know I was goingthrough it.
And for some people too, they'relike, oh, you seem together.
Like, I seem to be like I know alot of people who look together
and they're really whacked.
So I think we that's why we needto put it out there.
Yes.
And I know that you say seesomething, say something.
You see something, talkprivately to that person.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Yes.
It's very important.
It's very important.
And they may be upset, they maybe angry, they may be ashamed.
But maybe that those wordsthey'll remember.
And they'll come back to you.
That's my favorite, is when theycome back to you months later,
(27:59):
or you get a text message, hey,you reached out to me two years
ago.
That's what makes that's myfavorite part.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
I would go on about a particular case that reached
out to me after two years thatwe both know.
And that made my day.
That made my week, that made myyear.
And that's the other part aboutsubstance.
There's hope.
But we gotta kill the stigma andwe gotta let people reach out
(28:30):
for help.
unknown (28:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
On that joyous note.
Thank you, Lisa.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:35):
Really great to have you here.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
And I'll put all the show notes, I'll put all the
community stuff that we justtalked about, including a
community impact, Chris'scorner, and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:48):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(29:12):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development and
Action with Steve Beast Home.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, higher, EMS,discounters, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
You know you've heard me talk about this before.
Get free.ai.
Great for your note-taking, goodfor your transcript, good for
your goals, good for everythingthat you do on a HIPAA-compliant
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And if you use code C50 atcheckout, you will get$50 off
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And also if you get a wholeyear, you will also get 10% off
(00:51):
the whole year.
But getfree.ai has freed me todo more things with my life,
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Well, hi, and welcome to thisbonus episode.
We'll figure out the number byone point.
(01:13):
With um resilience developmentin action, but more importantly,
with someone I truly uh love,adore, and love talking to is
Lisa Trousis.
Um Lisa, you know, we talkedabout this patch, and I I will
tell the audience and I will saythe same thing to you.
I wanted people to hear the realthing about this patch.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And I will never ever forget to mention my
dispatch people.
And I told you before anyinterview that I think we got to
figure out a way to not call itfirst responders, but maybe
emergency responders.
Because I think of my dispatchsometimes not being included.
I think about my ER nurses anddoctors, and I work with those
too.
(01:56):
And that's not first line, butit's first line and a half,
maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (02:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
And let's not forget people who do first responder
hospital and law enforcement allat the same time, the
correctional staff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
You know, we're right in Milford here.
There's the correctional unionon the other side.
Shout out to them.
I've worked with DOC, I'veworked with many counties, but
they're emergency people,because I've been there when
there's an emergency, it's notlike they're like, well, let's
call the ambulance.
No, they're the ambulance.
Um, transport afterwards, I getthat.
But um the bottom line is that Ithink that that's the best
(02:31):
encompassing word aboutemergency responders.
Um but getting off that soapboxfor a little more, the other
passion that me and you share issubstance use.
Not that we indulge too much init.
unknown (02:44):
Kidding, kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Um but the bottom line is that, you know, I grew
up with a family with substanceuse.
I have my first job out of mymaster's was a substance abuse
coordinator, and that's like2003.
And before that, I was workingwith people who are dually
diagnosed in the community.
And if you think that substanceuse doesn't affect your life,
(03:07):
you're full of shit.
And I need to say that likethat, and I know it's gonna be
bleeped out, I don't care,because it's the truth.
We all deal with it.
Whether you turn your blind eyeto that, that's another story.
But I know that that's a passionthat you have, that's a passion
I have.
Um we can tie it a little bit tothe first responder world
because it's definitely presentthere.
(03:28):
Um but I'd like to hear moreabout your personal story in
regards to that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
So my father, brother, and soon-to-be
ex-husband are all in recoverycurrently.
Um, but they were allhemorrhagomadics.
And growing up with my father asan alcoholic in addict, I
thought it was normal.
I thought the partying wasnormal.
I thought the way of life wasnormal.
(03:54):
Um I'm not too sure when Iofficially found out he was an
addict, my father.
Um, I think it was after myhusband at the time came clean
to me and said he was an addict.
And I think that's when I foundout my father was and my
(04:16):
brother.
And this was 20 years after, youknow, I was in my 20s.
Every emotion possible.
And I didn't know how to handleit.
I was clueless.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
If you were my client and said, of course you
didn't know what to how tohandle it because this was
normal.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
You know, again, to tie it a little bit to the first
responder world, how many ofguys you know and gals, not
trying to be discriminatoryhere, um, who have not the same
but similar backgrounds?
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
And they thought it was normal?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Like, I it's fascinating to me what people
thought were normal.
And I think that that's whathappens with substance use.
Of course, my dad offered mecocaine at 14.
That's what we had in the house.
Of course, it's okay for dad tobe passed out all the time.
That's what happens in my house.
And I remember a particularwoman I worked with, her father
(05:26):
was in the was a law enforcementperson.
And for it took me to tell her,it's not normal for strange men
to be in your room when you werea teenager.
But I thought that was normal.
No, it's not.
So you accept because ofsubstance use, because of the
stuff that goes on, your normalis the normal that most people
(05:47):
don't quite comprehend.
Oh no, I gotta go wake up my dadbecause I know he's gonna be
passed out when I get home.
What?
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Right.
I think too, what which uh Ithink the stigmatism between
alcohol and drugs, thatstigmatism is completely
separate too.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
I think more and more nowadays it's normal to be
a functioning alcoholic.
But God forbid you're a drugaddict, you're addicted to
heroin, fentanyl, cocaine,benzos, you're a horrible human
being.
Well, what about the alcoholics?
They have it's an addiction.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
I think that the addiction part is so difficult,
particularly for firstresponders.
And again, I think that theculture with this generation
that's coming out, for better orfor worse, in different ways,
one of the things they've reallychanged is uh I think I was
talking to someone here todayabout how the Gen Z population
is a little more conscious abouttheir drinking and their habits
(06:53):
with that.
Unfortunately, they can poppills.
And Adderall and benzos and umparticularly the other one that
people don't like to talk aboutis vaping, is all normalized.
Because, oh, it's anxiety med.
Of course you can take 17clonopins in a day.
(07:14):
Well, benzodiazepine and alcoholis the only two that you can die
from withdrawals.
And yes, people will argue theother ones are not great.
I didn't say they were great, Isaid that you can't die from it.
Um that happens in ourdepartments, happens in our own
lives.
SPEAKER_03 (07:31):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
And then we replicate, and then this is the
point I want to make.
You hide something in yourfamily because who wants the
alcoholic father, aunt, drugaddict, uncle, cousin, sister,
brother?
So you hide that.
So you get to a policedepartment, you get a fire
(07:52):
department, they have the sameproblems.
What's your instincts?
Well, we hid it in my family.
How do we change that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
So I actually, obviously, for years I hid it.
I had to listen to policeofficers and firefighters and
other first responders,including myself, you know, use
the slang words, derogatory, youknow, the junkies, the this, the
(08:21):
that.
And finally, after severalyears, I got the courage to tell
the people I work with that myfather, brother, and soon-to-be
ex-husband were heroin addicts.
Because I was hoping to shed alittle light, hoping to show
(08:44):
them that their family don'tdidn't choose this way of life.
And we're still supportive, assupportive as we can be.
And it's hard to be on the otherside of it listening to these
horrible things.
So once I was finallycomfortable, I was I finally
(09:07):
admitted it, you know, here andthere to some of the people I
worked with, because they're myfamily.
I've been there for 20 years, II'm at least there 40 hours a
week, if not more.
They're my family.
And I slowly told people, and alot of people are shocked.
And then I have noticed overtime they have become, I guess,
(09:40):
more or less stigmatized againstit, and they will come to me and
ask questions.
Um, I have had several peoplecome to me and ask questions in
regards to their significantothers.
Um, but the rest of thedepartment doesn't know.
So I'm glad I said something tomaybe spark that conversation,
(10:04):
to maybe open somebody else'seyes, or to let somebody know
that like I've been through it.
I didn't have anybody to gothrough it then.
It was awful.
I didn't have anybody to talkto, you can talk to me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
And I applaud you doing that.
Um sign note um there's a fewpeople I work with who go to
their departments, and I'm nolonger my therapist says, it's
Steve said.
And even though that sounds verytrivial for some people, the
fact that they talk about itopenly and people know by me by
(10:41):
name is how much we've grown inthis field.
Does it happen often?
I'm not, I don't know.
I have no clue, but there'sthree people in particular that
go around like, you know whatSteve said to me about that?
And I love that.
And we talk about substanceabuse.
I think mental health has beengetting more accepting.
Substance abuse has always beenaccepted as long as it's
(11:03):
alcohol.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (11:05):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
Because if not, they're junkies, they're uh pill
addicts, they're I can thinkabout other things that I want
to keep from uh being bleepedout here.
We still stigmatize more, in myopinion, what we would consider
harder drug addiction, and I putthat in quotation, and you bring
(11:27):
the light to that.
But I think that what we need todo is the overall general
population is needs tounderstand.
I don't mind if someone puts Iperson died unexpectedly, but
please be honest about what'shappening in real life because
you're only perpetuating thestigma of substance use.
(11:49):
I think what's the number?
I think it's 40 millionAmericans uh will be addicted at
some point.
I can't remember the exactnumbers, like like 12.5% of the
population.
And then lifetime, we're lookingat about 80% of Americans.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
I believe it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
And that includes behavioral addictions, you know,
porn, gambling, stuff like that.
And don't start me on porn andgambling in the police and
fireworld.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Addiction comes in all shapes and sizes, all forms.
It can be anything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
Or power.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
And it's the same thing as a heroin addict, a
cocaine addict, an alcoholic.
Your addiction to porn or tovideo games or food or gambling
is all the same addiction.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
I might have ch um shared this on the podcast if I
haven't, but one of my mo we welegalized gambling a few years
ago on sports.
But there was one of my guys whocame in and said, I was up all
night, came in early.
He had worked a second shift,stayed up all night because he
had to watch the ping pong inNorth Korea or South Korea,
(13:04):
whatever the hell it was,because he had money on it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:08):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
And I'm like, don't you think that's an addiction?
No, it's legal.
Like, alcohol's legal.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
Alcohol's been legal for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Right.
And I think that that's where itbecomes a uh appropriate vice
because it's legal.
So not only do we have stigma,we have this legality crap.
SPEAKER_03 (13:29):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
You know, oh, marijuana is legal, so do you
want me to be high while I'mdoing this interview or when I'm
working?
Because that's legal.
Well, no, that's stupid.
Oh, that's stupid, but you'rebetting on Korean ping pong in
at three o'clock in the morning.
Because that's the only thingyou can bet on.
Which one's most addicted?
SPEAKER_03 (13:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
So how do we bring that up to people?
Because that's the other part,too.
And I think you talk about thestigma.
Um, I don't have a problembecause people come to see me,
so if someone I think peoplehave an addiction, pretty easy
for me to bring up.
In my personal life, sometimesthat's a little harder.
And I'm trained in this stuff,but in my personal life, there's
a difficulty with that.
(14:12):
And when I worked in a job whereI was interacting with many
people, sometimes you'd seesomething, but you wouldn't say
anything because again, I hateto say it, there's a little bit
of a jail mentality there.
I don't want to be the snitch.
How do we work on that?
How do we change that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:33):
I I wish I knew the answer to that.
I think the more we educate, themore we talk about it.
And I don't want to say we'renormalizing addiction, but I
think it's bringing light toeverybody that somebody in your
family has an addiction of somesort.
(14:53):
I I don't care who you are,somebody in your family has some
sort of addiction.
And I think it's just education,bringing light to it, awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
And making sure that people can talk to you.
And, you know, that's why wehave all the services that we
try to put everywhere else.
But I I've known you not onlyfrom police, but community
impact, Chris's corner.
Um, and I know all that workthat you do there, and it's an
(15:26):
amazing work, and Amy Leone issomeone I really truly
appreciate and adore.
Do you bring some of thatopenness to the police
department in regards to thatbecause you work both jobs?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
I do, and I think I think it's easier, not easier,
but I think I can relate to alot of our callers, you know,
the parent who is looking forhelp for their child, you know,
and and up until recently,police officers and fire
department had no idea what totell them.
(16:04):
They had no idea.
And I'm able to at least explainto them maybe what a section 35
is, explain to them how to getinto detox and have that
conversation, or take theirphone number and say, I'll, you
know, let me call you back onthe side.
Or here's my number.
If you need anything, let meknow.
SPEAKER_03 (16:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
That has been, I think, very helpful.
Very helpful.
Because they they know they'renot alone.
unknown (16:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
And I think that that's the highest part is that
people think they're alone.
Um you bring up something thatI'm gonna bring a little bit of
a spin to this, and if that'sokay with you.
That's great when you havefamily members that love you,
who want to work on a Section 35in Massachusetts.
(16:54):
There's different names foracross the country, but we'll
talk about Massachusetts.
Someone who wants to actuallydrive you to the whatever detox
you want to go to.
Or even better, sometimes peopleneed to go to the airport to fly
to Palms, try to do a little bitof the geographical cure, which
by the way, usually does notwork.
(17:15):
Um, but what what if you don'thave any family?
You know, how do we work thosethings?
Because there's times where, andeven you do have family, but
they like, how many times haveyou gone, like I know you don't
go to calls, I don't go to callsanymore, but I how many times
like I had no clue when theyOD'd on, you know, fentanyl?
(17:36):
Or they uh, oh, it's justcocaine, except it was laced
with fentanyl and their heartstopped, and you got narcandom
and the whole nine yards.
And then the family's soembarrassed they never want to
talk about it.
So to me, those are theequivalent.
If you don't have any family orfamily who want to ignore the
problem, that's pretty bad.
How do you deal with people whoneed that help without sounding
(17:58):
like, you know, uh, for lack ofa better word, be on the pulpit
and go, do you need to do this?
Because that's the hard part forme.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
Yeah.
I think it's more peer-to-peer.
I think that's what a lot of usat the at Chris's corner, which
is a recovery resource center,we're peer-to-peer.
We don't have any title, wedon't have authority.
So we have that easier way totalk to somebody.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Yeah.
And I think that what Amy hasdone, true Jag through Community
Impact, now Chris's corner.
And then not to mention thepartial that she does with uh
New England Medical Group.
And then the house and thehousing.
(18:49):
She's done a wonderful job inMilford to break those walls.
But I'll be truthful with you.
I know a lot of people are like,that's great, but she's just
helping junkies.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
Yes, I've heard that many times.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
I know, I want to put it out there.
Yep.
And obviously, in if anybodydoubts, you can see how much we
work together.
You know how much I love Amy.
It's not me saying that, butdefinitely her that many times.
I worked in Framingham when wewere doing a lot of mental
health and substance abuseeducation in the community.
And everyone's like, that'sgreat, not in my backyard.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
I think a lot of people don't understand how many
people it truly affects.
Right.
And they don't understand howdeep somebody's addiction is
because they can hide it.
And for those junkies that weretrying to help, they might not
have anybody.
(19:47):
They may have lost all theirfamily due to death or due to,
you know, a reason because oftheir substance abuse.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Burning their bridges over time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
But eventually somebody gets to the point of
hitting their rock bottom.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
And eventually somebody needs that hand to
hold, that helping hand just tohelp give them a little push.
Um, working with Amy for solong, you know, her being one of
my best friends, we've beensaid, we've been called so many
things because we work with thepolice.
(20:23):
We work for the DEA, we'resnitches, we're this, we're
that.
That's not what we're about.
Yes, I work for the police, butI'm here to help.
We're all here to help.
We're not here to rat anybodyout.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
The language I use in therapy is that I'm not here
to rat anyone out.
If anything, I'll do everythingto protect it.
Not only because that's theHIPAA, for me, it's what's
important as human beings.
I break your confidentiality, Ibreak my trust with you and nine
other people.
Because you're gonna go andlike, hey, Steve's a so I've
(20:59):
never seen that happen at thelevel with you guys, and that's
what people don't quiteunderstand.
I will call 911 at the lastpossible resort for several
reasons.
A, hospitals don't necessarilywork.
Detox is voluntary, so peopledon't want to go.
But more importantly, I workwith you guys.
I don't want to be calling youfor unruly stuff unless I
(21:22):
really, really, really have to.
I've got to be down, or I've gotto be like deep and say, look, I
can't take this.
But you need to be able to reachout when you the person gets
above and beyond what theyshould be.
So I don't want to call thatsnitches.
And I don't call them junkies.
(21:43):
I call it someone who's des sodesperate for help, doesn't know
how to ask.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
And I think they get they're so ashamed of the life
they've lived for so many years.
That they're, like you said,they're too scared to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
The average stay, like d I don't know if you know
the stat.
So across the country.
How many stints and detox beforeyou get a whole year sober?
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
A lot.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Seven across the country.
You know what the stat is for inMassachusetts.
Thirteen.
Yes, my THs are hard.
I've said that to you before.
The reason why they explain thatis that in Massachusetts there's
this ability to go get somehelp, but there's this ability
(22:34):
to leave against medical adviceor AMA regularly.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
And I think another issue that will not be brought
up here, because it's a wholecan of worms, is insurance.
Insurance kicks them out afterthree days, four days, or they
have a certain kind of insurancethat one place three hours away
takes.
What good is that?
For right now, the only juveniledetox facility that was open in
(23:04):
Massachusetts is closed.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
And I'm sorry, but we have heroin addicts who are
13, 14, 15, 16, 17.
Now what?
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
And if you ask me, the teenagers who go for
treatment are the ones who aregoing to break the cycle long
term.
They're not because they startedyounger, they're worse.
And if anything, they're like,oh crap, this is out of control.
But we don't do that.
And I think Worcester had onefor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
That's yeah.
And they just shut downresearch.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
They just shut down.
I know Westboro tried to do onetoo.
I'm not naming companies.
And they shut down.
This is I'm I've been in thisfield too long, so 10, 15 years
now.
Um I think that we need to justmake substance abuse what it is.
And the reason why, while thisis a mental health for first
(23:53):
responder podcast, I think it'simportant to talk about
substance abuse because it's nota first responder issue.
It's a community issue.
Because you calling themwhatever name when you see them,
what did you really accomplish?
You felt a little better fortreating someone who's
struggling like crap?
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
Kicking them while they're down.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
And there's days it's hard for me too.
I remember a guy coming in atthe ER every Saturday, the
second week of the month, afterhe spent all his money on it,
would want detox.
And I can't tell you thatthere's I can tell you that for
most part I did it, I wouldstill talk to him and this and
that.
But is there a day I threw alist at him, like, hey, are you
(24:38):
suicidal?
Let's move on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
Because we are humans.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Right.
And that's the hardest part, isthat I don't think that that's
the singular reason people don'tcome back for help.
But how many of us blameourselves for that?
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
I had that recently.
Somebody called me, I couldn'tanswer the phone, the next day
she relapsed.
It's I know deep down it's notmy fault.
But I still had that guilt.
Right.
And I think the majority of usin the field would have that
guilt too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
We care.
SPEAKER_02 (25:15):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
And the stuff that, you know, you've been around
many years too.
I tell people like I have moreoverdoses, that's on my record
than you can possibly imagine.
And I'm not gonna name namesbecause it's illegal.
But how many of them do I thinkabout every single week?
I'm not gonna exaggerate thatit's daily, but week and see
(25:39):
their faces.
unknown (25:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
So, you know, I give you a lot of credit for lifting
the stigma within yourdepartment.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
I give you and your team and Amy Leone a lot of
credit.
I was at the opiate overdose uhawareness day at the end of
August because you bothered meto be there.
Yes, I did, but I wasn't there.
I know.
I was there now.
Um thank you for putting it outthere.
I've been some kind of open withmost of my clients, and I don't
(26:11):
know how many times I mention itif I did on the podcast, but I
had my own struggles withalcohol.
And I've changed thankfully.
But I know that that monster isthere forever.
I'm one bad day away from sayingJack Daniels is now my best
friend.
He was never my best friend, butif I get to a certain point, I
(26:33):
know that may happen.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Yep.
I had a client tell me that hisfirst love was heroin.
And that's the only thing heloved for years.
And as somebody who's not anaddict, that's a scary thought.
But it's reality.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
I'm gonna finish on this before we wrap up here.
I think you get so deep into theaddiction that you know you're
doing the wrong thing, but theonly person that doesn't judge
you is the next substance you'regonna use.
Most of my friends from Canadawho who knew me then are shocked
(27:18):
about those things.
They didn't know I was goingthrough it.
And for some people too, they'relike, oh, you seem together.
Like, I seem to be like I know alot of people who look together
and they're really whacked.
So I think we that's why we needto put it out there.
Yes.
And I know that you say seesomething, say something.
You see something, talkprivately to that person.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Yes.
It's very important.
It's very important.
And they may be upset, they maybe angry, they may be ashamed.
But maybe that those wordsthey'll remember.
And they'll come back to you.
That's my favorite, is when theycome back to you months later,
(27:59):
or you get a text message, hey,you reached out to me two years
ago.
That's what makes that's myfavorite part.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
I would go on about a particular case that reached
out to me after two years thatwe both know.
And that made my day.
That made my week, that made myyear.
And that's the other part aboutsubstance.
There's hope.
But we gotta kill the stigma andwe gotta let people reach out
(28:30):
for help.
unknown (28:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
On that joyous note.
Thank you, Lisa.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:35):
Really great to have you here.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
And I'll put all the show notes, I'll put all the
community stuff that we justtalked about, including a
community impact, Chris'scorner, and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:48):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(29:12):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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