March 18, 2026 • 26 mins
You can do everything “right” on the job and still end up quietly falling apart at home. Part two with Nikki Mason gets real about what first responder mental health support actually needs to look like when the stakes are high and the window for help is small.
We start with the hard conversation many departments avoid: how to get chiefs and administrators to back real treatment instead of rushing someone back after a few required days off. Nikki explains why a first responder agreeing to care is a rare moment worth protecting, and we talk about how the leadership case can be framed in human terms and in dollars and cents, including the true cost of losing a trained police officer, firefighter, paramedic, dispatcher, or correctional professional.
Then we break down what a voluntary first responder treatment program can look like at Granite Recovery Centers’ Rally Point program in New Hampshire: no locked doors, a supportive environment, daily groups, individual therapy, case management, medical support when needed, and recovery options that respect personal choice. We also dig into Granite’s Enjoy Life campaign and why rebuilding connection, fun, and community is not fluff but a relapse prevention tool. If you have ever wondered whether “connection” is the missing piece for PTSD, depression, anxiety, or substance use recovery, this conversation gives you language and a path forward.
To find Nikki Mason, please visit Granite Recovery Centers - Rally Point Program: Detox, residential, PHP/IOP with lodging up in scenic New Hampshire, all in network with insurance
Also visit Open Sky - Crisis Intervention Training: 40 hour certificate training for law enforcement & first responders
If this helped, subscribe, share it with someone on your shift, and leave a review so more first responders can find the support they deserve.
DeemedFit: First Responder OwnedWe are a first responder owned company looking to get first responders in the best mental shape.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Well, welcome back for part two with Nikki Mason.
She's still sitting here.
Always great to see you again.
But magic of like podcasting,like a week later, suddenly she
looks exactly the same.
I do too.
That's just how it works.
That's go on YouTube to get whatI'm saying.
But we were talking a little bitabout family.
I want to shift gears a littlebit because we talked about
that, but we talked about how weneed to educate also, I believe,
(00:52):
people who are in charge,particularly, I feel like
administration sometimes don'tunderstand that.
Let them have the little partyin the front end when they're
having a hard time so that wecan keep it acute stress
disorder, like I think Imentioned the other episode.
How do we, you know, I'm surethat you've faced that and
talking in to leadership.
(01:13):
How have you dealt with thosethings?
Because I think it's really ahard conversation sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
It is a hard conversation.
And I think helping, you know,people to understand that having
an opportunity to get somebodytreatment, get them appropriate
treatment, proper treatment, andespecially at a point where
they're willing to engage inthat treatment, that's a really
rare gem of a moment.
(01:38):
So it doesn't make a lot ofsense to rush through that or
dismiss it when you have it.
So if you're in that positionand somebody's saying, you know,
yeah, I will participate in a30-day program, I will
participate in an IOP daytreatment program, I will
participate in whatever it is,you know, it's in everyone's
(02:01):
best interest to support that.
And it really does give theopportunity to have some
long-lasting results versusrushing somebody through, giving
them three days off becauseyou're required to, and then
putting them right back outthere.
We're just gonna run into thesesame issues over and over and
over again, you know, withoutreally giving them the
(02:23):
opportunity to heal properly,without giving them the
opportunity to do some good,solid work.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
And I'm I I think that that's exactly it.
We got to communicate that.
I'll, you know, recently we'vehad a couple of incidents in
Central Mass.
I'll give credit to the chiefsthere that really reached out to
the right people and got thehelp, and they seem to be very
well aware that give them thetime to get help now, that way
(02:50):
you don't lose your investment.
Because what I've said to chiefsto get through to them, like,
how much does it cost to gothrough the academy and then get
him trained with, you know, yougot your your your field officer
that's te teaching too, and thenthe person goes out after a
couple of years because theydidn't get the treatment they
needed.
That's a lot of money thrown outthe window.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Police, fire, whatever.
So I kind of go with thefinancial side, and usually that
gets the some of the chiefs whodon't perk up with the mental
health bar, they perk up withhow much to save money.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
The logistics matter, you know,to them, and and pointing that
stuff out is really important.
I think one of the things incentral mass in particular that
I've been impressed with is theamount of departments that are
engaging in the 40-hour CITcrisis intervention training.
So I've been helping out withthat as well.
I do just kind of the openingpiece about what is mental
(03:41):
health, what is substance use.
But I think that, you know,their willingness to even kind
of engage from the perspectiveof, okay, our officers are going
out in the community and they'regoing to be handling this type
of situation and then kind ofrewinding it back a little bit
and being able to say, like,well, we talked about trauma,
depression, anxiety, substanceuse, all these things.
(04:05):
And by the way, there areservices, you know, for law
enforcement, for all firstresponders that, you know, cater
to this stuff.
It kind of flips that a littlebit and makes them realize, you
know, like, oh, we're peopletoo.
Like these are people issues,and we also happen to be human.
You know, so being able to bringthat into the conversation is
(04:27):
important.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
I mean, you talk about the central mass one.
I know there's going to be onein February.
I think this is coming out inMarch, but I I really appreciate
the work that Open Sky does.
Riverside does a fantastic job.
Also, this is all central massstuff.
For those of you listening fromelsewhere, I'm just not plugging
in by anything but that Irespect them.
(04:48):
And then there's the Metro WestHack too that I've worked with,
and they're very, very good.
And I did the CIT trainings inMiddlesex for a couple of years
and really enjoy that.
And I would always sneak in thetrauma about the first
responders and getting treatmenta little bit in there.
And I shout out a good friend ofmine, Catherine, who helped me
just put that in there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
But you you know as much as I do, we need to sneak
that in.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
You do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it's mashing up thevegetables into your kids'
dinner and and hiding it, youknow, and with all the mashed
potatoes and the good stuff.
It it's the same thing, youknow.
It it's very important, youknow, that people kind of hear
this information time and timeagain, over and over again.
And then eventually littlesnippets start to sink in a
(05:34):
little bit, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
Well, I I think it's a good transition to when I talk
to some of the like the firstresponder people, they I'm like,
you know what, there's a placein New Hampshire that you can go
to, it's really close, very wellrespectful for the first
responder world.
The first thing they ask me is,like, are they gonna hold me
there against my will, or arethey gonna like give me
(05:56):
electroshock therapy?
And I'm like, the hell do youthink you do there?
And I know you don't do that,but maybe explain a little bit
as to like if I'm a firstresponder, I'm going, okay, I
really need help.
I need to go away for we'll go30 days.
How's that?
Just making it up as I go.
And I call you up.
And what type of services areyou gonna tell me?
It's like, how manyelectroshocks am I gonna get?
(06:18):
I mean, what's going on here?
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
So we don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
No electroshock, just telling you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
No, no, no shackles, no lock doors, no, nope.
So, and that truly the no lockdoors is one of the things that
I personally really enjoy aboutworking at this program, and I
think is kind of welcoming and abreath of fresh air for a lot of
our first responders coming up.
You know, it's a voluntaryprogram.
So nobody, not one person thereis held against their will in
(06:47):
any physical way.
There might be outsidepressures.
You might have a chief, youmight have a spouse saying, hey,
you gotta stay up there, youknow, but it's not a secured,
locked type of a setting.
So, you know, people can walkfreely around the campus, and if
they smoke, they can go outsideand smoke.
It's very popular with peoplebeing able to do that.
(07:09):
But just getting the fresh air,you know, touching the ground,
breathing the air.
It's literally on the side of amountain in New Hampshire.
So the environment is reallyimportant to us up there.
But I think in terms of thetreatment, it really is designed
to help people get, if it's 30days, 30 days of stability and
(07:29):
30 days of sobriety and get thattime where they can feel like
they have a foundationunderneath them before returning
home.
You know, it is kind of adestination location.
We don't have a lot of localsfrom up there.
I mean, when you went up, it'sit's pretty remote.
So, you know, not a lot ofneighbors, not a lot of stuff
(07:51):
going on up there.
But I think that that also lendsto, especially, you know, people
coming from out of state of thatsecurity feeling of I'm not
going to run into a lot ofpeople that I know up here.
You know, it is it's prettyoff-the-beaten path.
But in terms of treatment, wehave our separate rally point
program.
So the program itself is in likea separate little, I keep doing
(08:15):
this because it's in a house.
It's in its own little watchingYouTube.
Own little building.
You know, we have firstresponders that are running the
treatment there.
So they know what's going on.
They know, you know, all thetips and tricks that people
might try and use to not talkabout the things that are really
bothering them.
They're open to havingconversations about, you know,
(08:37):
feeling isolated from otherpeople in their lives that are
not first responders.
They're open to havingconversations about feeling, you
know, a lack of support from thesystem and administration.
You know, they're open to a lotof that and they guide that in a
really powerful way.
You know, there's a lot ofopportunity, I think, for people
(09:00):
to go up and just get thetreatment that they need, you
know, before returning home.
Because that's the end goals.
We want people to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
Right.
And I think that what, you know,I'm gonna I was there, I've been
there, a really nice campus,love the campus.
Group, individual, free time,AA.
If you want, you don't need todo the AA.
It's a step program, but theythey respect it.
If you don't want to do it,sobriety is important, and you
get that there too.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
You know, you've got doctors who come by for medic
medication if needed.
Yep, we do.
Yeah.
So we have sorry, I'm reallyplugging it for you at this
point.
I gotta shut up.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
No, keep you're doing great.
You're hired.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Oh, great.
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
So yeah, we do.
We have, in terms of staffing,clinician that is working with
people individually, so theyhave that kind of one-on-one
time to discuss things inprivate that they might not be
comfortable or want to discussin a group, or just kind of
reflect on their personal needs.
We also have case management.
So those are people that arehelping with some of the
logistics of getting back home.
(10:06):
Some people need help with, youknow, varying degrees of things.
Maybe it could be as simple as,hey, I really need to find an
outpatient therapist, or it canget into the more complicated
filling out FMLA paperwork and,you know, all of that stuff that
kind of can need to be done.
We have a group running everyday, seven days a week.
(10:27):
So it's not the type of placewhere you're going and just
sitting around.
And I know that when Ipreviously worked a kind of a
higher level of care andinpatient psych, that was one of
the things that really botheredme, I think, was just the amount
of time that people are justsitting around.
You know, they're physicallykept safe.
So yes, you cannot hurtyourself, you cannot hurt other
(10:50):
people, hopefully.
You know, but the amount of workand treatment is really limited.
That level of care is reallydesigned, you know, to keep
people alive.
And beyond that, it can be verychallenging to get into some of
those deeper issues.
So this is really a place wherepeople can do that.
They can get into, you know, alittle bit more of the
(11:11):
nitty-gritty of what has broughtus to this point.
How do we avoid getting to thispoint again?
You know, what do you need now?
What do you need in the future?
And let's get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
I think that that's all good points.
And I think that from myperspective, the other part that
you guys do really well is tomeet people where they're at.
The difference between myexperience, anyway, with
inpatient with the civilianpopulation versus more of the
first responder correctionals,correct me if I'm wrong again.
There's a different type ofdetermination.
Sure, you'll have some peoplewho are not, no matter what,
(11:45):
engaged.
But I find that once you crossthat bridge in treatment, and
fortunately it seems likeeveryone works extremely hard
not to have to go back everagain.
That's my experience.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think that for peoplethat are reaching a point where
they can have some hope, youknow, and see a future that
looks a little different thanhow things have been going.
That can be the real determiningfactor in helping them to kind
of move forward towards that andstay there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was a me amazing,
and I really enjoyed wearing it.
This episode is gonna besupported by Deemed Fit.
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activ active
wear and leisure uh brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(12:39):
responders, our nonprofits,their name to uh DeemFit, and I
know they're talking to them.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
mental health for firstresponders.
And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
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That's right, R D A 15 to get15% off on the any products that
(13:05):
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Go to deanfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D,F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at
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Now, right back to the episode.
Yeah, and I think that that'swhere, you know, I like what you
you guys meet and where they'reat.
They get they get the treatmentthey want.
(13:26):
But if something called, and Igotta look down, enjoy life.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
I have no clue.
I'm coming in very blind as towhat that is.
So I'm gonna ask you, what isthat about?
What's that campaign about?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yeah, so that's something I'm actually really
excited about that Granite doesacross programs, you know, with
our Rally Point population,first responders and vets, and
then with the civilians as well.
So the Enjoy Life campaign cameabout as a way to do exactly
what it sounds like and helppeople enjoy life again, or
(13:58):
maybe for the first time enjoylife.
We incorporate a lot of kind offorced fun activities for
people, which initially, youknow, as my kids would say, is
very cringe.
A lot of people, you know, don'twanna don't want to participate
or like, oh my God, you know,another karaoke painting,
whatever it might be, thing thatI'm, you know, gonna force into
(14:20):
this dumb activity.
But what we've found is thatwhen we kind of build a calendar
around these kinds ofactivities, it's really
generating a sense of communityand a sense of fun in life
again.
And we don't often get those intreatment for people to just
have a good time and not havethe purpose be clinical, not
(14:44):
have it be focused on 12-stepwork, not have it be, focused on
you know, this ulterior motiveor this other thing.
It really is just genuinelygetting people to a place where
they can laugh, have fun, talkto other people.
You know, even if thatconversation is, wow, hey man,
can you believe how stupid thisactivity is?
(15:06):
You know, it's giving peoplegrounds to kind of meet and make
connections.
You know, we do field trips offsite.
We'll go to, you know, Portland.
I'm gonna mess up the baseballteam.
I want to say Sea Dogs, yep.
Um, I don't live in Portland,but I do know the Sea Dogs.
I know the Woo-Socks.
Um, yeah, the Sea Dogs games,which they will do a first
(15:29):
responder night.
So we'll sometimes try andcoordinate, you know, that field
trip, which could be pretty fun.
But it really is whether it'ssitting around a fire, playing
volleyball, going snow tubing,you know, in the cold weather,
it's just getting people toexperience joy and be able to
have that opportunity and do itsober, which a lot of people
(15:52):
have not perhaps engaged in in awhile, and do it in a way where,
you know, there are peoplearound that are going through a
similar thing.
And just building on that senseof community, camaraderie, and
you know, helping people to getto that place where they want to
and can enjoy life again.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
I don't mean to throw a curveball at you, but I
guess I'm gonna throw acurveball at you.
What I'm really hearing aboutenjoy life is really that
connection.
And I think that what happens inmy experience is once you lose
that connection because of yourown health issues, mental health
problem, primarily, substanceabuse, primarily.
Getting to connect with peoplewho are not in your department,
(16:35):
i.e., at a treatment center, Irun two groups out of my office
on Tuesdays and Fridays.
And there's this connection withpeople who are not in your
department that to like they askme, Hey, how's Jane?
How's John?
And there seem to be like whenyou talk about enjoying life, is
really is that connection.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that, you know, weforget how important that is,
you know, just for happiness anda sense of purpose, but for
survival.
I mean, I used to work in fostercare programs, and the leading
cause of homelessness wasn'taddiction.
It's not mental health, it's,you know, not being in the
(17:15):
foster care system.
It's it's a lack of connections.
You know, people eventually runout of couches to stay on.
They run out of people to callwhen they need help.
And that lack of safeconnections is what leads to
homelessness, leads to so manyissues, you know, that we just
don't even realize.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
How many times have we heard the story?
I'm bored, I was alone at home,I grabbed a drink.
Or, you know, I started gamblingor what have you.
There's there's so much to besaid about how sometimes the
loneliness and the lack ofconnection is a symptomology of
other health issues, includingphysical.
Yep.
But for mental health inparticular, for me, that
(17:57):
connection is so important.
And having, you know, all thespaces that you offer and you
know having this pro thiscampaign is so important because
I think that people will getthat connection that they're
seeking.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we have alumni coordinatorsalso that check in with people
after they leave, you know, justa phone call.
Hey, how's it going?
You know, we love it when theanswer to that is things are
going great.
I'm working, I'm, you know,spending time with my family, my
friends, whatever.
You know, sometimes they're notdoing great.
And that alumni coordinator canbe the person that is that
(18:31):
connection and just say, what doyou need?
You know, what do you want totalk for a little bit?
Do you need to get to yourmeeting?
Do you need to go see somebodyelse?
Like, what can we do to help youget on a better track?
You know, and knowing thatthat's kind of built into the
program, I think, has beenreally helpful for people.
And the alumni coordinators aregreat about running activities.
(18:52):
You know, we do cookouts and bigget-togethers with people
throughout the year as well.
It's just kind of a chance toreconnect to some of those
people that they met intreatment.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Well, I'm hoping that I go back to see it
sometime when there's not snowon Mount Washington, which I
think is what we saw.
Yes.
I'm sure that there's adifference between the summer
and the winter time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Yes, very much.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
Knowing it's New Hampshire and knowing, you know.
Do you think that it's there's aparticular season that's better
than the other to get treatment?
Do you think that it doesn'tmatter as long as you're ready
or something else?
SPEAKER_02 (19:28):
Aaron Powell I think it doesn't matter as long as
you're ready.
I think, you know, people inthis world will, you know, kind
of talk about, oh, it's busy atthis time and it's slow at this
time.
For I don't know why, forwhatever reason, I seem to be on
a very opposite schedule ofeveryone else.
I seem to be busy when everyonesays it's slow and slower when
(19:49):
everyone says it's busy.
My phone was ringing off thehook on Christmas Day, you know,
and that's the day where people,oh, nobody's coming into
treatment that day.
So I think it can really justdepend on what people need.
You know, and there are times ofyear, I think naturally that,
you know, that that first reallynice day in spring when it
finally hits us this year aftera string of cold, dreadful,
(20:12):
snowy months, you know, I thinkthat's going to be a great day
and everyone's gonna be in agreat mood and driving around
with our windows down.
But life happens even on thosedays too.
So, you know, just becauseeverybody else can kind of seem
to be in this high place, thatcould still be not a great day
for someone else.
(20:32):
So just kind of taking thosethings into account and you
know, being available wheneverpeople need us.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
I'm gonna share a little story with you, which is
a true story.
We did the stats over five yearsat our crisis team when I worked
at on crisis team, if we're morebusy on a full moon day or not.
You know, it turned it turnedout that it was not
statistically significant.
We get a higher call volume, buthospitalizations or evaluations
(20:59):
are actually pretty much thesame.
We get these changes when theweather changes, like there's a
high spike.
If we had a lot of string ofgood days and then there's a
bad, like rainy day or snow.
So just for the record, it's Ithat's what like when people
there's a pattern.
I'm like, no, I I don't thinkthere is a pattern personally.
We've actually, well, I knowit's just one crisis team for I
(21:21):
think we cover what, 14 plus 12,whatever that is, 26 towns.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
But it's still, I think, is telling that it's not
about that.
I think that the reason why Isay that, and again, you toss
you that because I also want tomake sure that people know.
Nikki's gonna have openings onJuly nineteenth.
It's my birthday.
You've got July nineteenth asyour birthday?
unknown (21:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Guess who's July nineteenth also?
Who?
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
No way, birthday twins.
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
We are, yeah.
Anyway, well, July nineteenth orJanuary nineteenth.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
It won't change.
Nikki will well, maybe we won'tbe available on the nineteenth.
The twentieth or the we gotcolleagues though, it's fine.
But on the those days, itdoesn't matter as long as you're
ready for the s the help.
I think one of the things thatI'll wait till it's cold or I'll
wait till it's warm or I'll waittill it's muddy or I'll wait
like I mean I lived in Vermontfor a year, so I know about mud
(22:15):
season and all that fun stuff.
So but there's never a goodtime, and I think that that's
what I wanted to communicatehere because that's what you're
saying, and I agreewholeheartedly.
But if someone like as we getclose to the end here, how do we
get in connect?
Like, how do we connect withyou?
Obviously, everyone knows thatthey can call me and I have
those connections.
But how did they say like Idon't like Steve, I just want to
(22:37):
talk to Nicky.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
People can call me.
My cell phone direct is publicinformation.
603-851-4921.
You know, they can get in touchwith me directly.
And if I'm not available, youknow, I'll get you to somebody
that is right away.
You know, I think that's that'sthe best way, truly, to get in
(23:00):
touch.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
And I've I've called you several times and you've
always answered.
And if you didn't answer, youreturn the phone call fairly
quickly.
That's not me just being nice toyou, it's just my experience
with what I've done with you.
And the one thing I would sayabout the center that I forg I
wanted to may mention earlierand I've forgotten I'm gonna
mention it.
I sent you someone who got toconnect with someone out in
(23:23):
Vermont of all places, andthey're from Massachusetts.
And they said that when theyfeel down, they can talk to
someone who is not in herdepartment, but have gone
through similar things becauseof stuff.
And she calls them and shethinks it's like the cat's meow,
it's the best thing in theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
Because she's having a very good people knowledgeable
con conversation without themknowing Jane, John, and Ricky
and Helen.
I don't know, I'm making namesup.
And I think that that's theother part too that I want to
mention that is so helpful.
So if you're not from the area,which is pretty common in that
area, go there.
(24:00):
You're gonna make someconnections with a lot of people
from different departments, andyou will have that as an outlet,
the support we talked about.
I think that that's soessential.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think just being able, youknow, like we said, to connect
with people, but to have theopportunity to really connect
with people that know whatyou're going through but aren't
in your immediate circle isreally nice.
It gives you that sense whereyou can be a little bit more
vulnerable than, you know, maybechatting with somebody in your
own department.
(24:30):
And, you know, yeah, it's greatto be able to bitch and oh,
sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
To be able to complain and I I personally
don't care on my podcast, whichI'm trying to do with Milford TV
here.
Try to be nice.
Zon Meeks doesn't seem to care,so we're good.
SPEAKER_02 (24:46):
Having somebody, you know, in your own department to
complain and they know theplayers, they know who you're
talking about, to be able tosay, oh, you know, this person
did this, and you know, that'sgreat.
But being able to have it saidin a way that, you know, you can
really just freely say whateveryou want to say, not have that
fear of backlash or, you know,this is gonna get back to
(25:06):
so-and-so, and you know, justnot have to worry about that is
very freeing for people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
It's a small world, and uh especially in the law
enforcement world.
I learned that in the mentalhealth world too.
But talking to someone inColorado about someone who works
in mental health inMassachusetts or New Hampshire
feels a lot easier to talk to.
So I think it goes the same wayfor first responders.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Nikki, as we we approachthe end here, I want to thank
(25:32):
you.
I know we we've been trying toget this done for a couple of
months.
I meant every word I say, but Itruly like I I'm not lying when
I say to you, and my audienceknows this.
Every time I've called you,you've always responded and went
in.
I can't remember a time whereyou wanted more than an hour to
respond to me.
So from the bottom of my heart,for all the people I've served,
I thank you.
(25:52):
And I'm saying this so thatpeople can hear it that you are
actually that way.
It's not some line from a andpeople know I don't give a line.
So thank you so much for that.
And thank you for coming on toResilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
Thank you.
I really, really appreciate theopportunity to be here and you
know, hopefully just be able tospread the word that there's
help available if anybody needsit.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
And I and I know that you do a fantastic job.
So thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Well, this completes our episode 245.
Join us for episode 246, and Iappreciate your time.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(26:52):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Well, welcome back for part two with Nikki Mason.
She's still sitting here.
Always great to see you again.
But magic of like podcasting,like a week later, suddenly she
looks exactly the same.
I do too.
That's just how it works.
That's go on YouTube to get whatI'm saying.
But we were talking a little bitabout family.
I want to shift gears a littlebit because we talked about
that, but we talked about how weneed to educate also, I believe,
(00:52):
people who are in charge,particularly, I feel like
administration sometimes don'tunderstand that.
Let them have the little partyin the front end when they're
having a hard time so that wecan keep it acute stress
disorder, like I think Imentioned the other episode.
How do we, you know, I'm surethat you've faced that and
talking in to leadership.
(01:13):
How have you dealt with thosethings?
Because I think it's really ahard conversation sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
It is a hard conversation.
And I think helping, you know,people to understand that having
an opportunity to get somebodytreatment, get them appropriate
treatment, proper treatment, andespecially at a point where
they're willing to engage inthat treatment, that's a really
rare gem of a moment.
(01:38):
So it doesn't make a lot ofsense to rush through that or
dismiss it when you have it.
So if you're in that positionand somebody's saying, you know,
yeah, I will participate in a30-day program, I will
participate in an IOP daytreatment program, I will
participate in whatever it is,you know, it's in everyone's
(02:01):
best interest to support that.
And it really does give theopportunity to have some
long-lasting results versusrushing somebody through, giving
them three days off becauseyou're required to, and then
putting them right back outthere.
We're just gonna run into thesesame issues over and over and
over again, you know, withoutreally giving them the
(02:23):
opportunity to heal properly,without giving them the
opportunity to do some good,solid work.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
And I'm I I think that that's exactly it.
We got to communicate that.
I'll, you know, recently we'vehad a couple of incidents in
Central Mass.
I'll give credit to the chiefsthere that really reached out to
the right people and got thehelp, and they seem to be very
well aware that give them thetime to get help now, that way
(02:50):
you don't lose your investment.
Because what I've said to chiefsto get through to them, like,
how much does it cost to gothrough the academy and then get
him trained with, you know, yougot your your your field officer
that's te teaching too, and thenthe person goes out after a
couple of years because theydidn't get the treatment they
needed.
That's a lot of money thrown outthe window.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Police, fire, whatever.
So I kind of go with thefinancial side, and usually that
gets the some of the chiefs whodon't perk up with the mental
health bar, they perk up withhow much to save money.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
The logistics matter, you know,to them, and and pointing that
stuff out is really important.
I think one of the things incentral mass in particular that
I've been impressed with is theamount of departments that are
engaging in the 40-hour CITcrisis intervention training.
So I've been helping out withthat as well.
I do just kind of the openingpiece about what is mental
(03:41):
health, what is substance use.
But I think that, you know,their willingness to even kind
of engage from the perspectiveof, okay, our officers are going
out in the community and they'regoing to be handling this type
of situation and then kind ofrewinding it back a little bit
and being able to say, like,well, we talked about trauma,
depression, anxiety, substanceuse, all these things.
(04:05):
And by the way, there areservices, you know, for law
enforcement, for all firstresponders that, you know, cater
to this stuff.
It kind of flips that a littlebit and makes them realize, you
know, like, oh, we're peopletoo.
Like these are people issues,and we also happen to be human.
You know, so being able to bringthat into the conversation is
(04:27):
important.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
I mean, you talk about the central mass one.
I know there's going to be onein February.
I think this is coming out inMarch, but I I really appreciate
the work that Open Sky does.
Riverside does a fantastic job.
Also, this is all central massstuff.
For those of you listening fromelsewhere, I'm just not plugging
in by anything but that Irespect them.
(04:48):
And then there's the Metro WestHack too that I've worked with,
and they're very, very good.
And I did the CIT trainings inMiddlesex for a couple of years
and really enjoy that.
And I would always sneak in thetrauma about the first
responders and getting treatmenta little bit in there.
And I shout out a good friend ofmine, Catherine, who helped me
just put that in there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
But you you know as much as I do, we need to sneak
that in.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
You do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it's mashing up thevegetables into your kids'
dinner and and hiding it, youknow, and with all the mashed
potatoes and the good stuff.
It it's the same thing, youknow.
It it's very important, youknow, that people kind of hear
this information time and timeagain, over and over again.
And then eventually littlesnippets start to sink in a
(05:34):
little bit, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
Well, I I think it's a good transition to when I talk
to some of the like the firstresponder people, they I'm like,
you know what, there's a placein New Hampshire that you can go
to, it's really close, very wellrespectful for the first
responder world.
The first thing they ask me is,like, are they gonna hold me
there against my will, or arethey gonna like give me
(05:56):
electroshock therapy?
And I'm like, the hell do youthink you do there?
And I know you don't do that,but maybe explain a little bit
as to like if I'm a firstresponder, I'm going, okay, I
really need help.
I need to go away for we'll go30 days.
How's that?
Just making it up as I go.
And I call you up.
And what type of services areyou gonna tell me?
It's like, how manyelectroshocks am I gonna get?
(06:18):
I mean, what's going on here?
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
So we don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
No electroshock, just telling you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
No, no, no shackles, no lock doors, no, nope.
So, and that truly the no lockdoors is one of the things that
I personally really enjoy aboutworking at this program, and I
think is kind of welcoming and abreath of fresh air for a lot of
our first responders coming up.
You know, it's a voluntaryprogram.
So nobody, not one person thereis held against their will in
(06:47):
any physical way.
There might be outsidepressures.
You might have a chief, youmight have a spouse saying, hey,
you gotta stay up there, youknow, but it's not a secured,
locked type of a setting.
So, you know, people can walkfreely around the campus, and if
they smoke, they can go outsideand smoke.
It's very popular with peoplebeing able to do that.
(07:09):
But just getting the fresh air,you know, touching the ground,
breathing the air.
It's literally on the side of amountain in New Hampshire.
So the environment is reallyimportant to us up there.
But I think in terms of thetreatment, it really is designed
to help people get, if it's 30days, 30 days of stability and
(07:29):
30 days of sobriety and get thattime where they can feel like
they have a foundationunderneath them before returning
home.
You know, it is kind of adestination location.
We don't have a lot of localsfrom up there.
I mean, when you went up, it'sit's pretty remote.
So, you know, not a lot ofneighbors, not a lot of stuff
(07:51):
going on up there.
But I think that that also lendsto, especially, you know, people
coming from out of state of thatsecurity feeling of I'm not
going to run into a lot ofpeople that I know up here.
You know, it is it's prettyoff-the-beaten path.
But in terms of treatment, wehave our separate rally point
program.
So the program itself is in likea separate little, I keep doing
(08:15):
this because it's in a house.
It's in its own little watchingYouTube.
Own little building.
You know, we have firstresponders that are running the
treatment there.
So they know what's going on.
They know, you know, all thetips and tricks that people
might try and use to not talkabout the things that are really
bothering them.
They're open to havingconversations about, you know,
(08:37):
feeling isolated from otherpeople in their lives that are
not first responders.
They're open to havingconversations about feeling, you
know, a lack of support from thesystem and administration.
You know, they're open to a lotof that and they guide that in a
really powerful way.
You know, there's a lot ofopportunity, I think, for people
(09:00):
to go up and just get thetreatment that they need, you
know, before returning home.
Because that's the end goals.
We want people to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
Right.
And I think that what, you know,I'm gonna I was there, I've been
there, a really nice campus,love the campus.
Group, individual, free time,AA.
If you want, you don't need todo the AA.
It's a step program, but theythey respect it.
If you don't want to do it,sobriety is important, and you
get that there too.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
You know, you've got doctors who come by for medic
medication if needed.
Yep, we do.
Yeah.
So we have sorry, I'm reallyplugging it for you at this
point.
I gotta shut up.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
No, keep you're doing great.
You're hired.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Oh, great.
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
So yeah, we do.
We have, in terms of staffing,clinician that is working with
people individually, so theyhave that kind of one-on-one
time to discuss things inprivate that they might not be
comfortable or want to discussin a group, or just kind of
reflect on their personal needs.
We also have case management.
So those are people that arehelping with some of the
logistics of getting back home.
(10:06):
Some people need help with, youknow, varying degrees of things.
Maybe it could be as simple as,hey, I really need to find an
outpatient therapist, or it canget into the more complicated
filling out FMLA paperwork and,you know, all of that stuff that
kind of can need to be done.
We have a group running everyday, seven days a week.
(10:27):
So it's not the type of placewhere you're going and just
sitting around.
And I know that when Ipreviously worked a kind of a
higher level of care andinpatient psych, that was one of
the things that really botheredme, I think, was just the amount
of time that people are justsitting around.
You know, they're physicallykept safe.
So yes, you cannot hurtyourself, you cannot hurt other
(10:50):
people, hopefully.
You know, but the amount of workand treatment is really limited.
That level of care is reallydesigned, you know, to keep
people alive.
And beyond that, it can be verychallenging to get into some of
those deeper issues.
So this is really a place wherepeople can do that.
They can get into, you know, alittle bit more of the
(11:11):
nitty-gritty of what has broughtus to this point.
How do we avoid getting to thispoint again?
You know, what do you need now?
What do you need in the future?
And let's get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
I think that that's all good points.
And I think that from myperspective, the other part that
you guys do really well is tomeet people where they're at.
The difference between myexperience, anyway, with
inpatient with the civilianpopulation versus more of the
first responder correctionals,correct me if I'm wrong again.
There's a different type ofdetermination.
Sure, you'll have some peoplewho are not, no matter what,
(11:45):
engaged.
But I find that once you crossthat bridge in treatment, and
fortunately it seems likeeveryone works extremely hard
not to have to go back everagain.
That's my experience.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think that for peoplethat are reaching a point where
they can have some hope, youknow, and see a future that
looks a little different thanhow things have been going.
That can be the real determiningfactor in helping them to kind
of move forward towards that andstay there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was a me amazing,
and I really enjoyed wearing it.
This episode is gonna besupported by Deemed Fit.
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activ active
wear and leisure uh brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(12:39):
responders, our nonprofits,their name to uh DeemFit, and I
know they're talking to them.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
mental health for firstresponders.
And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
the mental health support stuff,uh use the code R D A 15.
That's right, R D A 15 to get15% off on the any products that
(13:05):
you get.
Again, it's called R D A 15.
Go to deanfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D,F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at
checkout to save.
Now, right back to the episode.
Yeah, and I think that that'swhere, you know, I like what you
you guys meet and where they'reat.
They get they get the treatmentthey want.
(13:26):
But if something called, and Igotta look down, enjoy life.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
I have no clue.
I'm coming in very blind as towhat that is.
So I'm gonna ask you, what isthat about?
What's that campaign about?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yeah, so that's something I'm actually really
excited about that Granite doesacross programs, you know, with
our Rally Point population,first responders and vets, and
then with the civilians as well.
So the Enjoy Life campaign cameabout as a way to do exactly
what it sounds like and helppeople enjoy life again, or
(13:58):
maybe for the first time enjoylife.
We incorporate a lot of kind offorced fun activities for
people, which initially, youknow, as my kids would say, is
very cringe.
A lot of people, you know, don'twanna don't want to participate
or like, oh my God, you know,another karaoke painting,
whatever it might be, thing thatI'm, you know, gonna force into
(14:20):
this dumb activity.
But what we've found is thatwhen we kind of build a calendar
around these kinds ofactivities, it's really
generating a sense of communityand a sense of fun in life
again.
And we don't often get those intreatment for people to just
have a good time and not havethe purpose be clinical, not
(14:44):
have it be focused on 12-stepwork, not have it be, focused on
you know, this ulterior motiveor this other thing.
It really is just genuinelygetting people to a place where
they can laugh, have fun, talkto other people.
You know, even if thatconversation is, wow, hey man,
can you believe how stupid thisactivity is?
(15:06):
You know, it's giving peoplegrounds to kind of meet and make
connections.
You know, we do field trips offsite.
We'll go to, you know, Portland.
I'm gonna mess up the baseballteam.
I want to say Sea Dogs, yep.
Um, I don't live in Portland,but I do know the Sea Dogs.
I know the Woo-Socks.
Um, yeah, the Sea Dogs games,which they will do a first
(15:29):
responder night.
So we'll sometimes try andcoordinate, you know, that field
trip, which could be pretty fun.
But it really is whether it'ssitting around a fire, playing
volleyball, going snow tubing,you know, in the cold weather,
it's just getting people toexperience joy and be able to
have that opportunity and do itsober, which a lot of people
(15:52):
have not perhaps engaged in in awhile, and do it in a way where,
you know, there are peoplearound that are going through a
similar thing.
And just building on that senseof community, camaraderie, and
you know, helping people to getto that place where they want to
and can enjoy life again.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
I don't mean to throw a curveball at you, but I
guess I'm gonna throw acurveball at you.
What I'm really hearing aboutenjoy life is really that
connection.
And I think that what happens inmy experience is once you lose
that connection because of yourown health issues, mental health
problem, primarily, substanceabuse, primarily.
Getting to connect with peoplewho are not in your department,
(16:35):
i.e., at a treatment center, Irun two groups out of my office
on Tuesdays and Fridays.
And there's this connection withpeople who are not in your
department that to like they askme, Hey, how's Jane?
How's John?
And there seem to be like whenyou talk about enjoying life, is
really is that connection.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that, you know, weforget how important that is,
you know, just for happiness anda sense of purpose, but for
survival.
I mean, I used to work in fostercare programs, and the leading
cause of homelessness wasn'taddiction.
It's not mental health, it's,you know, not being in the
(17:15):
foster care system.
It's it's a lack of connections.
You know, people eventually runout of couches to stay on.
They run out of people to callwhen they need help.
And that lack of safeconnections is what leads to
homelessness, leads to so manyissues, you know, that we just
don't even realize.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
How many times have we heard the story?
I'm bored, I was alone at home,I grabbed a drink.
Or, you know, I started gamblingor what have you.
There's there's so much to besaid about how sometimes the
loneliness and the lack ofconnection is a symptomology of
other health issues, includingphysical.
Yep.
But for mental health inparticular, for me, that
(17:57):
connection is so important.
And having, you know, all thespaces that you offer and you
know having this pro thiscampaign is so important because
I think that people will getthat connection that they're
seeking.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we have alumni coordinatorsalso that check in with people
after they leave, you know, justa phone call.
Hey, how's it going?
You know, we love it when theanswer to that is things are
going great.
I'm working, I'm, you know,spending time with my family, my
friends, whatever.
You know, sometimes they're notdoing great.
And that alumni coordinator canbe the person that is that
(18:31):
connection and just say, what doyou need?
You know, what do you want totalk for a little bit?
Do you need to get to yourmeeting?
Do you need to go see somebodyelse?
Like, what can we do to help youget on a better track?
You know, and knowing thatthat's kind of built into the
program, I think, has beenreally helpful for people.
And the alumni coordinators aregreat about running activities.
(18:52):
You know, we do cookouts and bigget-togethers with people
throughout the year as well.
It's just kind of a chance toreconnect to some of those
people that they met intreatment.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Well, I'm hoping that I go back to see it
sometime when there's not snowon Mount Washington, which I
think is what we saw.
Yes.
I'm sure that there's adifference between the summer
and the winter time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Yes, very much.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
Knowing it's New Hampshire and knowing, you know.
Do you think that it's there's aparticular season that's better
than the other to get treatment?
Do you think that it doesn'tmatter as long as you're ready
or something else?
SPEAKER_02 (19:28):
Aaron Powell I think it doesn't matter as long as
you're ready.
I think, you know, people inthis world will, you know, kind
of talk about, oh, it's busy atthis time and it's slow at this
time.
For I don't know why, forwhatever reason, I seem to be on
a very opposite schedule ofeveryone else.
I seem to be busy when everyonesays it's slow and slower when
(19:49):
everyone says it's busy.
My phone was ringing off thehook on Christmas Day, you know,
and that's the day where people,oh, nobody's coming into
treatment that day.
So I think it can really justdepend on what people need.
You know, and there are times ofyear, I think naturally that,
you know, that that first reallynice day in spring when it
finally hits us this year aftera string of cold, dreadful,
(20:12):
snowy months, you know, I thinkthat's going to be a great day
and everyone's gonna be in agreat mood and driving around
with our windows down.
But life happens even on thosedays too.
So, you know, just becauseeverybody else can kind of seem
to be in this high place, thatcould still be not a great day
for someone else.
(20:32):
So just kind of taking thosethings into account and you
know, being available wheneverpeople need us.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
I'm gonna share a little story with you, which is
a true story.
We did the stats over five yearsat our crisis team when I worked
at on crisis team, if we're morebusy on a full moon day or not.
You know, it turned it turnedout that it was not
statistically significant.
We get a higher call volume, buthospitalizations or evaluations
(20:59):
are actually pretty much thesame.
We get these changes when theweather changes, like there's a
high spike.
If we had a lot of string ofgood days and then there's a
bad, like rainy day or snow.
So just for the record, it's Ithat's what like when people
there's a pattern.
I'm like, no, I I don't thinkthere is a pattern personally.
We've actually, well, I knowit's just one crisis team for I
(21:21):
think we cover what, 14 plus 12,whatever that is, 26 towns.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
But it's still, I think, is telling that it's not
about that.
I think that the reason why Isay that, and again, you toss
you that because I also want tomake sure that people know.
Nikki's gonna have openings onJuly nineteenth.
It's my birthday.
You've got July nineteenth asyour birthday?
unknown (21:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Guess who's July nineteenth also?
Who?
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
No way, birthday twins.
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
We are, yeah.
Anyway, well, July nineteenth orJanuary nineteenth.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
It won't change.
Nikki will well, maybe we won'tbe available on the nineteenth.
The twentieth or the we gotcolleagues though, it's fine.
But on the those days, itdoesn't matter as long as you're
ready for the s the help.
I think one of the things thatI'll wait till it's cold or I'll
wait till it's warm or I'll waittill it's muddy or I'll wait
like I mean I lived in Vermontfor a year, so I know about mud
(22:15):
season and all that fun stuff.
So but there's never a goodtime, and I think that that's
what I wanted to communicatehere because that's what you're
saying, and I agreewholeheartedly.
But if someone like as we getclose to the end here, how do we
get in connect?
Like, how do we connect withyou?
Obviously, everyone knows thatthey can call me and I have
those connections.
But how did they say like Idon't like Steve, I just want to
(22:37):
talk to Nicky.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
People can call me.
My cell phone direct is publicinformation.
603-851-4921.
You know, they can get in touchwith me directly.
And if I'm not available, youknow, I'll get you to somebody
that is right away.
You know, I think that's that'sthe best way, truly, to get in
(23:00):
touch.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
And I've I've called you several times and you've
always answered.
And if you didn't answer, youreturn the phone call fairly
quickly.
That's not me just being nice toyou, it's just my experience
with what I've done with you.
And the one thing I would sayabout the center that I forg I
wanted to may mention earlierand I've forgotten I'm gonna
mention it.
I sent you someone who got toconnect with someone out in
(23:23):
Vermont of all places, andthey're from Massachusetts.
And they said that when theyfeel down, they can talk to
someone who is not in herdepartment, but have gone
through similar things becauseof stuff.
And she calls them and shethinks it's like the cat's meow,
it's the best thing in theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
Because she's having a very good people knowledgeable
con conversation without themknowing Jane, John, and Ricky
and Helen.
I don't know, I'm making namesup.
And I think that that's theother part too that I want to
mention that is so helpful.
So if you're not from the area,which is pretty common in that
area, go there.
(24:00):
You're gonna make someconnections with a lot of people
from different departments, andyou will have that as an outlet,
the support we talked about.
I think that that's soessential.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think just being able, youknow, like we said, to connect
with people, but to have theopportunity to really connect
with people that know whatyou're going through but aren't
in your immediate circle isreally nice.
It gives you that sense whereyou can be a little bit more
vulnerable than, you know, maybechatting with somebody in your
own department.
(24:30):
And, you know, yeah, it's greatto be able to bitch and oh,
sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
To be able to complain and I I personally
don't care on my podcast, whichI'm trying to do with Milford TV
here.
Try to be nice.
Zon Meeks doesn't seem to care,so we're good.
SPEAKER_02 (24:46):
Having somebody, you know, in your own department to
complain and they know theplayers, they know who you're
talking about, to be able tosay, oh, you know, this person
did this, and you know, that'sgreat.
But being able to have it saidin a way that, you know, you can
really just freely say whateveryou want to say, not have that
fear of backlash or, you know,this is gonna get back to
(25:06):
so-and-so, and you know, justnot have to worry about that is
very freeing for people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
It's a small world, and uh especially in the law
enforcement world.
I learned that in the mentalhealth world too.
But talking to someone inColorado about someone who works
in mental health inMassachusetts or New Hampshire
feels a lot easier to talk to.
So I think it goes the same wayfor first responders.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Nikki, as we we approachthe end here, I want to thank
(25:32):
you.
I know we we've been trying toget this done for a couple of
months.
I meant every word I say, but Itruly like I I'm not lying when
I say to you, and my audienceknows this.
Every time I've called you,you've always responded and went
in.
I can't remember a time whereyou wanted more than an hour to
respond to me.
So from the bottom of my heart,for all the people I've served,
I thank you.
(25:52):
And I'm saying this so thatpeople can hear it that you are
actually that way.
It's not some line from a andpeople know I don't give a line.
So thank you so much for that.
And thank you for coming on toResilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
Thank you.
I really, really appreciate theopportunity to be here and you
know, hopefully just be able tospread the word that there's
help available if anybody needsit.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
And I and I know that you do a fantastic job.
So thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Well, this completes our episode 245.
Join us for episode 246, and Iappreciate your time.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(26:52):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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