June 17, 2026 • 33 mins
You can work a cardiac arrest, get pulses back, hand the patient off, and never learn what happened next. That missing chapter messes with how we measure success, how we carry trauma, and how we stay resilient over a long career in EMS and emergency medicine.
We sit down with Brad Newberry, a captain paramedic with more than 40 years in fire and EMS and the founder of a major EMS education and training center, and his daughter Kiera Newberry, an EMT and emergency room technician. Together, they share the origin behind their project “The Saved Effect,” built from real resuscitation stories and the idea that saving a life is never just a moment. It’s a ripple effect that can stretch across decades, families, and entire communities.
We also dig into the mental side of the job: generational differences in “suck it up” culture, the pressure to stay emotionally neutral while doing deeply human work, and why so many providers never get to see the long arc of the lives they touch. Along the way, we highlight the chain of survival, the power of bystander CPR, and why learning CPR and being willing to act can change outcomes in out-of-hospital cardiac arrest.
If you know a responder, work in healthcare, or want a clear reason to finally take a CPR class, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people find the stories that make service feel worth it.
Find Brad and Kiera at the following links:
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thesavedeffect/
https://www.instagram.com/bradnewbury/
https://www.instagram.com/kieranewbury/
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/brad.newbury
https://www.facebook.com/kiera.newbury.1
Tiktok
https://www.tiktok.com/@thesavedeffect
https://www.tiktok.com/@bradnewbury1
https://www.tiktok.com/@kieranewbury
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@BradNewbury
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSavedEffect
Linkedin
www.linkedin.com/in/brad-newbury
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiera-newbury/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Well, hi everyone, and welcome to Resilience
Development in Action.
I am so happy to have fellowMassachusetts people.
I know I'm a hypocrite, I'm fromCanada, but nonetheless, very
happy to have people fromMassachusetts because I don't
get those a whole lot.
And I'm very happy to have hereBrad Newberry, who is a captain
paramedic for more 40 years ofexperience in firefighting and
(00:50):
EMS, and Kira Newberry, who'salso his daughter and is an EMT
and emergency room technician atBet Israel, like at the BI.
That's quite an experience initself, I'm sure.
But I wanted to welcome you bothto Resilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Thank you for having us.
We're excited for this.
SPEAKER_03 (01:08):
You know, just based on these intros, and I saw your
like mother, like you know,father, daughter, that's already
a 14 questions there.
Being a captain and a paramedicfor 40 years, many questions
there.
I run a group and I have a fewemergency room technicians and
nurses that come to the groupwith the first responders.
And I know that becomes allcontroversial if they're a first
(01:30):
responder or not.
I frankly don't care.
We'll call them first respondersin a half.
Is that a good way to discussit?
Because they are in the frontline in some ways.
Absolutely.
That's how I perceive it anyway.
But being EMT and working, ifyou if you worked also for like
you work for a town, it's hard.
But if you worked for acontracted company, that's even
harder sometimes.
(01:50):
So anyway, I have about 40questions about those things,
but we have other things to talkabout.
So how about we start off withwe'll go with Brad first?
I'm you can choose as we goalong.
Brad, how about you introduceyourself?
Because I introduced you barely,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Sure.
I mean, I think you you hit thehigh points, right?
I I have been in uh fire and EMSfor now over 40 years.
My favorite line is I don't lookthat old, but the reality is I I
started when I was 16 years old.
I joined the the Tivenar, RhodeIsland Volunteer Fire
Department, and and I've hadcontinuous service ever since
then.
It was always something I wantedto do.
(02:25):
I grew up watching the showEmergency, and and Johnny and
Roy inspired me in so many ways.
And and not only just as a as afirefighter, but I also wanted
to be a paramedic, right?
I mean, uh LA County uhparamedics and firefighters back
in the 70s was something that asI watched that, I said, this is
this is what's for me.
And and it wasn't until I wasabout 10 years old where I got
(02:48):
to do some ride-along.
My uncle was a Fall Riverfirefighter.
So here in Massachusetts, asmall city on the south on the
Rhode Island border.
And and I got to do someride-alongs with with my uncle,
and it was an amazingopportunity to see the men at
the time do what they did.
And and it really inspired me tothis life of service.
So as soon as I joined 16, assoon as I turned 16, literally
(03:11):
the day I turned 16, I joinedthe uh fire department in in in
Tivernary, Rhode Island.
I still think it's amazing thatthey allowed me at 16 years old
to crawl into building fires.
And and back in the 80s, we hada lot of fires.
So that set me on this life ofservice.
And throughout my youngadulthood, I went to became an
EMT and then went on toparamedic school.
(03:31):
And I was 20 years old when Ibecame a paramedic.
So yeah, it was it's been anamazing career.
And and people would ask, youknow, as I talk about it today,
all the things that I've beenblessed to do in my life and to
get to this point, both on onthe service side, but also too
as an educator, because I I ownNational Medical Education and
(03:53):
Training Center.
We're an incredibly large EMSeducation institution here in
Massachusetts where we teachEMTs and paramedics.
We have a EMT and paramedicprogram, a nationally accredited
paramedic program.
And we serve students from allover the country and around the
world.
So back in 2007, I launched oneof the first online hybrid
(04:14):
paramedic programs in thecountry.
It doesn't seem so novel now,but when you think about 2007,
no one was doing onlineeducation.
So here at our school, you know,we've been open now since 2010.
And so we've we're 16 years old.
And we service, you know, rightnow at our school today, we have
students from around the countryand and around the globe.
(04:36):
Along the way, we be somehowbecame the Iceland paramedics
program in a sense.
We train, I shouldn't say withthe Iceland paramedic, but we
train most of the paramedics inIceland now, too as well.
So we have this incrediblehybrid program that has amazing
outcomes and and we get to toserve in a in a different way,
not just one patient at a time,but as educators, we get to
(04:58):
really impact the care that'sbeing delivered through all of
our students throughout thecountry.
And, you know, I also work forthe Disaster Medicine Fellowship
at the Beth Israel Hospital.
So we have a in a we teach adisaster medicine, disaster
response to an internationalgroup of physicians and and
nurses at the BI.
And that has given me incredibleopportunities to teach really
(05:22):
around the world.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
You know, there's two things I want to mention.
So many people forget that thisis a life of service.
And I appreciate you sayingthose exact words.
So thank you for the service.
I and I appreciate it more thanyou know.
I also had a comment about whatyou said.
You mean there were TVs and TVshows when you were young?
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
It was a black and white TV, Steve.
It was a black and white TV.
So which is it is funny.
I actually wrote that in in inonce and and talked about that.
And and it's so think about howforeign it is, Kira to grew up
in an era of only iPhones andnever any black and white TVs in
our house.
SPEAKER_03 (06:02):
So take that as a very good joke that I'm also
making about myself because Iknew what shows you were talking
about.
So let's leave it at that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Well, we we remember the time where your your parents
would say, get up and change itto channel 10 or channel six or
whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (06:17):
Yeah, the clicker, the the clicker was you turning
the knob.
That's right.
That's right.
On UHF, you gotta put it on 56.
I remember those days too, butenough of us dinosaurs talking.
Let's talk about someone talk tosomeone who's a little younger.
How about you introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
So my journey began when I was real young, and it it
really started because myparents had opened this school.
And I'm the youngest of three,so I have an older brother who's
eight years older than me, andolder sister who's five years
older than me.
And so at the time, they hadbeen trying to figure out their
place uh in the school and whattheir role will be.
(06:54):
And both of them knew that theyalso wanted to go into the
medical field and kind of followinto our parents' footsteps.
And it's so funny because now Ikind of reflect on it.
And eight years old, I was kindof running around the school,
and a lot of the students, itwas a lot smaller back then, so
we really were a big family.
(07:17):
And you know the EMS community,it is a big family.
So a lot of the students kind oftook me under their wing and
they were excited to show me alot of the things that they had
just learned.
And in a way, I also thoughtthat I could teach them
something too.
But one thing that I love to dowas intubate mannequins.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
And just like every eight-year-old that I'm of
course, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
Exactly.
And I I couldn't touch theneedles yet, so we didn't get
that far.
But I would go up to thestudents and I have a real
competitive nature to me.
And so I would go to them andI'd say, Well, I bet I could
intubate the mannequin fasterthan you.
And so it got to the point wheresome of these students would
(08:02):
actually bet money on me.
And so I one time went to my dadand I said, Hey, can I have five
dollars?
Do you have five dollars?
And he's always up for the c thecompetition too.
So he said, Okay, well, what'sit for?
And I said, Well, Joey bet methat he could that I wouldn't be
able to beat him in thiscompetition to intubate the
(08:23):
mannequin.
And so, but he said that Ineeded five dollars to to do it.
And so he he said, I'm all in,gave me five dollars, and I I
went off, and then a few minuteslater I came back and I had a$20
bill.
And I said, Oh, do you do youhave like change to break this
$20 bill?
He said, Where where did you getthe$20 bill?
(08:44):
And why do you want change tobreak it?
And I said I said, Well, I wantto give you your five dollars
back.
He goes, Where did you get thetwenty dollar bill?
And I said, Well, Joey just kepthe just kept betting me that I I
wouldn't be able to do it.
And it became this big joke.
And and even later on, there wasa really one time where somebody
kind of said, or somebody wasable to kind of beat me, but I
(09:07):
think she was taking souls,Steve.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
This is what she was doing.
She was taking souls in theparamedic program.
SPEAKER_03 (09:11):
I was gonna say, like, all right.
You just made everyone feel alittle snorted.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
Like David Goggins.
She was like the David Gogginsof uh enemies.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
So there was one guy who who he was really
determined.
We kept we kept competingagainst each other, and he he
finally beat me by a hair.
And I looked over and I said,Well, I you actually didn't beat
me because you didn't inflatethe cuff on the tube, which is a
critical fail.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
And so everybody was gathered around because this
would this would bring crowds,really.
And so he he was so mad athimself.
But yeah, so I've always hadthat camaraderie for for me, and
especially in the world of EMS.
But I went to my dad one day andI said, I I need I want to
become an EMT.
And this was also when I waseight years old.
(10:01):
And he said, Well, okay, youcan't become an EMT.
You have to be 18 to sit for theexam and become licensed.
And I said, No, no, I can sit onon the I can sit in on these
classes and I can do a lot ofthese skills.
I want to become an EMT.
I want the license.
And he said, No, Massachusettswon't let that happen.
(10:21):
So I was really bummed.
And I went online.
Of course, I was Googling if Iwas actually able to not become
an EMT and if he was lying to meor not.
And but I had found online thatI was able to complete a CPR
certification course and becomeCPR licensed or CPR certified.
And there was no minimum agerequirement.
So at eight years old, I went tomy parents and I said, Well, if
(10:45):
I can't become an EMT, this issomething that I want to do.
And they said, Okay.
So I took the course online andI took notes and I took it
literally because I had seen myolder siblings going through
different courses and and doingthings at the school, and I
wanted to also be a part of it.
And so we had gone to the schoolto so that I could show my
(11:06):
skills to my dad.
And I looked over at him and hehad been taking videos and
pictures of me, and I justthought it was this proud dad
moment, like he had always donefor all of my other
achievements.
And so he but a few years later,to come to find out, he wasn't
just taking them because of itwas a proud dad moment, which
I'm sure it was, but at the sametime, he was really doing it for
(11:28):
insurance purposes, to the factthat he wasn't just handing out
these cards to eight-year-oldgirls because I was his
daughter.
And it proved that I knew whatto do and I had those skills and
I'd been practicing.
But a little later on, Iactually did go through the EMT
course and become licensed inMassachusetts.
And then a few years later, Ibegan working at level one
(11:51):
trauma center in Boston at theBI.
And I worked there for aroundthree years, and I got some
amazing experience, and Ilearned more than any textbook
could ever teach me.
And yeah, so I I kind of havededicated also, just like my
dad, I've also dedicated my lifeto service.
(12:11):
And I was graduating college.
I I went, I majored inpsychology and I minored in
writing.
And when I was coming out andgraduating, I I kind of had this
epiphany that I had always seenmyself doing something that
served my community and servedothers.
And when he when my dad had,which I'm sure we'll get into
later, when my dad had broughtthis idea to me and said, Can we
(12:33):
write this?
I originally told him no.
And that was kind of a drivingfactor because I really wanted
to serve others and be a part ofsomething clinical.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
So you have to understand too, Steve, we're a
whole healthcare family.
So my wife is a nursepractitioner.
You know, she had been a nursefor many, many years.
My son's an EMT, worked workedon the ambulance.
My older daughter, Bridget, uh,is an emergency room nurse at
BI.
Uh and and there's a whole storyof how the two of them actually
got there.
That's an incredible story.
(13:04):
And and she just actually, thispast week passed her nurse
practitioner.
So she's a nurse practitionernow, too, as well.
My son-in-law is a firefighterparamedic in in the town of
Duxbury.
My daughter-in-law is anemergency room nurse.
So and my mother-in-law is anurse.
So we're we're we're built forservice.
SPEAKER_03 (13:20):
So the first thing that comes to mind is why did
you make a vow of poverty?
I mean, I thought we were donewith these things.
That's the first thing thatcomes to mind.
And me seeing the personoversees the ERs and two major
Boston ERs.
I don't have a permission to saywhich ones, we can talk about it
off air.
I feel for you guys.
So, you know, this is you know,that's what people tend to
(13:42):
forget about these jobs.
And I think therapy is the sameway.
It was a calling for me.
It wasn't, I knew I wasn't gonnabe a millionaire, but definitely
it was a calling.
And I think that when you do theservice, you know, I see my my
work as a service too, verydifferent than yours.
I'm not saying it's the same,but you need to be dedicated,
and hearing an eight-year-oldgirl like intubating and betting
(14:04):
with firefighters is par for thecourse, number one, knowing the
people, but more importantly,super impressive.
And I want to mention that too,because that's really cool
because they don't let people invery easily, they're
competitive, so they don't likeletting people in.
And I thought the world oftherapy was really small, the
world of EMS in general isreally fucking small.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah.
And I do, I I do think thatthere are a lot of parallels
with therapy and and the EMSculture.
SPEAKER_03 (14:39):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was amazing, and I
really enjoyed wearing it.
Uh, it this episode is gonna besupported by Deemed Fit.
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activewear and a
leisure brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(15:01):
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know they're talking to them.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
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And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
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That's right, R D A 15 to get15% off on any products that you
(15:25):
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Now, right back to the episode.
And I think that that's whatbrings me to, you know, a little
bit of my work, you know, andtalking a little bit about you
guys, you know.
(15:45):
So you watch your dad go througheverything, and you're 88 years
old, you're doing you're workingat the school and all that.
So you decide you're gonna,you're gonna be like, okay, we
should write something calledthe saved effect together.
Two generations different.
One's like looking up theencyclopedia for the definition,
the other one already knows howto do it with Ray-Band glasses
(16:06):
or something I don't understand.
So, how did you both learn abouttrauma, resilience, human
connection, how to connect withother people?
And frankly, like there's agender difference too.
I know there's mu we'll talkabout the father-daughter
difference, but let's talk aboutalso the gender difference,
which you know, again, if I'mbreaking a wall, you correct me.
(16:26):
But men get treated differentlythan women in this field.
Shocker, I know.
But I think there's a lot to besaid about all that.
So I don't know where whereveryou want to start.
Because I mean the trauma stuff,I think the trauma of an older
generation, no offense, Brad,and I'm an older generation.
We see it way differently thanthe younger generation.
For us, it's like, you know,tough it, you know, suck it up,
buttercup, dude.
(16:47):
Yep.
Where this generation is verywell aware.
Oh, this may have impact me.
Some people are a little toosensitive, but for the most
part, I think they're generallywell like, oh, this might impact
me in the future.
I need to address it now.
Our generation, like, fuck thisshit.
I gotta get through the nextcall.
There's gotta be a lot of thingsabout resilience, the trauma,
the human connection, and thegender differences.
(17:08):
You can start wherever you want,but I think there's about 50
minutes worth of conversationright there.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
And and I think we have to understand too, like,
where did the where did the ideafrom the book come from?
And I've been I've been given atalk at every paramedic
graduation for many, many years,including Kira has is heard it
ad nauseum because she it's thesame story I would tell over and
over again.
And they're actually kind offunny because the kids would
make fun of me about it, but Itell them all the time.
(17:35):
It's like you heard thesestories, you hear them over and
over again.
These kids are hearing them forthe first time, and they're
human stories.
So the the story it reallyrevolves around what does it
mean to save a life?
And and it's I start off withthis this story that's in the
book about Frank Nagel, and andcircumstances led me to be
involved in Frank'sresuscitation.
(17:57):
And then, you know, I won'tunpack the whole thing, but
Frank, we we defibrillated Frankfive times.
And by the time we left in theemergency room, he was up
talking to his family.
And then through in anincredible story, I actually got
to stay connected to Frankpost-is resuscitation.
And Frank lived another 25 yearspost-resuscitation.
(18:18):
And the impact, or really theripple effect of that was
absolutely amazing.
And and for the book, we here inour in our school, in our studio
here where we're sitting, webrought in Frank's family
because Frank's passed away.
And it wasn't until Frank hadpassed away, and another
gentleman who had passed away, Iwas involved in his
resuscitation too.
(18:39):
And and John Perino is anotherstory in the book.
And and John lived after morethan 30 plus minutes of CPR in
the field, he livedneurologically intact.
He he spent two weeks in a coma,woke up, and went home to his
family, and lived 27 more years.
And the incredible ripple effectof that, and I use this metaphor
that I've told in in this inthese talks about about Frank,
(19:04):
about throwing a pebble in thepond, and the ripple effect of
where those ripples go.
And so when I first came to Kiraabout this, I already had this
idea of writing this book aboutsome of these incredibly human
stories.
And there's two there's two realmessages that come out of this
book.
The first one is, you know, anumber of these resuscitations
(19:25):
uh happened.
You know, John Perino uh wentinto cardiac arrest on the dance
floor in the Polish Club in 1994in Abington, Massachusetts.
Two bystanders who were werepart of the crowd that night
stepped forward and began CPRimmediately.
And because they did, that gaveus the time to respond, to get
to that emergency, too.
(19:46):
So it bridged the gap.
And we know that bystanders makea huge difference in in
out-of-hospital cardiac arrestsurvivability.
So that's number one.
But the second part of thesestories, and you talk about from
a mental health standpoint offirst responders, many of the
times we don't get to see thearc of time of a save.
(20:07):
And we'll go to a call, we dropthem off at the hospital, maybe,
and I think more so in todaythan they were back in the in
the you talk about, you know,the the back in the 90s, in the
early 90s, there was nopost-traumatic stress debriefing
or any of those things that thatI went through.
And I I was the the son of aforce recon Marine.
(20:27):
I grew up in the suck it suck itup buttercup environment, right?
And actually, I used to tell mykids that too.
Like, ask Kira.
It's like, okay, you're justgonna have to suck it up, right?
We'll move on.
And and don't get me wrong, mydad was an amazing guy.
I mean, amazing guy.
And, you know, and it's so funnybecause he, as he, you know, he
talked about suck it up.
My father would cry atcommercials just because he was
(20:47):
an incredibly emotional guy anda very people person.
And there is a story in thebook, too.
My dad suffered an out-ofhospital cardiac arrest at a
dance recital.
And two bystanders stepped inand did CPR.
Wow.
And and and he survived thatneurologically intact.
Like unbelievable.
It's a great story.
So I think from uh both on theside of the two audiences, one
(21:11):
is the layperson to be inspiredby these, and we say it at the
end of every chapter, you know,be inspired, learn, learn CPR,
and be ready and willing to act.
Because we also know that thataction is something that makes a
difference.
But on the mental health side, Ifound it incredibly cathartic
writing and but also, you know,listening to the stories of not
(21:32):
only the survivors, but thefamilies of the survivors.
Because we don't generallyconnect the two.
We might think about theindividual and the life that was
saved that day, but we'regenerally not thinking about
their their children, their grtheir grandchildren, their great
grandchildren, their community,all of the individuals that, if
(21:52):
he had died that day, or thatperson had died that day, all of
those connections and all ofthose ripples would have
stopped.
Because they lived, they allcontinued.
And see, when I think about youknow connecting back to the I've
been asking every paramedicclass since I've been teaching
for well more than 20 years, whyare you here?
(22:14):
Right.
I think Simon Seneck stole myidea of of you know of of why.
I tease about that.
I love Simon and his work.
But but literally I've had apresentation that I give to
first day of every paramedicclass, and I ask, why are you
here?
Because I also know that ittakes perseverance and
dedication to get through, youknow, being an EMS provider, not
(22:35):
only on the education side, butalso later on as you become a
provider.
And it's like to me, is like,can you connect yourself back to
why?
Why did you do this?
What's driving you every day?
What makes you get up in themorning and go to that shift,
despite yesterday was a toughday, too?
And and I worked incredibly busyEMS systems, and I'm sure some
of your audience they have too.
(22:56):
And and then we see sometimeswhat the worst of mankind can do
to each other.
I mean, I have literally have 36years as a paramedic.
And and all of those years andthe culmination of that, how do
you stay healthy from aresilience standpoint?
So when I started writing thisbook, I I realized that I wasn't
just writing it for, and Iwasn't writing the stories.
(23:17):
And the stories that I wereinvolved in, I wrote the other
stories that I wasn't involvedin that we curated for the book
that we knew about, Kira wrotethose.
And so when when I was writingthese stories, and even today,
they they're emotional.
I mean very emotional.
And because to me, it's likewhen you're connecting that
story, and you're connecting it,and and so many times we try to
(23:39):
stay as, and I don't want to saysterile, but emotionally sterile
as as possible in the moment.
However, taking care of peopleis human.
And and it's connecting thatstory to the emotions of taking
care of people.
And I think that was the biggestthing about writing the book.
And then from a mental healthstandpoint, you know, I've
always wondered how do I howhave I stayed so healthy over
(24:01):
the all of my careeremotionally?
And and then, you know, I'vecertainly have been on some
incredibly uh difficult andchallenging calls and and have
seen co-workers who are sufferedfrom because of that.
And and I always wondered, am Ilike a cold, heartless bastard
sometimes?
And but it's not.
I I think that, you know, I oneof the things I've taught for
(24:22):
years is that you know it's notmy fault.
It's just my problem.
And I didn't cause any of thosethings that we get we go to see.
And and so I've stayed fairlyhealthy over the years and and
kind of rationalizing, but Ialso think, too, that that true
injury, and I'm sure you couldtalk way more about this than I
could, of that of you know, thattrue brain injury that happens
(24:46):
with PTSD.
So when we go back to like whydo we write this book, uh it was
to tell those human stories tonot only our profession, but but
also to inspire the lay personto learn CPR because we have
some incredible stories thatstart with that bystander.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
I get to you, Kira.
There's just a few things I wantto say.
Emotion, what's that word?
What does that mean?
I don't know.
I try to keep myself from havingthose.
Uh, but no, that's the otherpart too, is that sometimes we
do have people who think thatthey can't they can go without
emotions.
Yeah, suck it up butterkaexists, but that doesn't mean
there's not emotions behindthere that affect you.
So that's why I joked aroundabout that.
(25:23):
Why are you here is my questionfor anyone who comes in for my
sessions.
Why are you here is always myfirst question.
And most people are shocked tobe told that because I'm like,
if you're here for someone else,leave.
There's no point to it.
I'm not gonna waste my time withyou.
And if you're here for yourselfand you want to get better and
you want me to cure you again,we're gonna change the language
(25:45):
of curing because I've nevercured a human being in my life.
I'd cure myself first if Icould.
But the other part is beinspired is so key.
And maybe this is a good jumpingpoint for you, Kira, to come and
jump in, talk uh, continue alittle bit on the ideas of Brad
or your dad, and talk about youknow, inspir inspiration.
Because it's funny because youeither have families or like
(26:06):
they watch their dad or mom workin this field and go, my god,
that's what I want to do, or ohmy god, is that something I
never ever ever want to fuckingdo?
So I maybe that's a good jumpingpoint in talking about the same
thing, like the trauma, theresilience, and your perceptions
of all this, because it's verykey because I think the
generational difference is soimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
Yeah, I it's so funny you say that because a few
days ago, I I just previouslytalked about this, but a few
days ago I was going through alot of my parents' old Facebook
posts and I found a video of meshockingly intubating a
mannequin.
And my mom was recording me andshe said, Kira, like, do you
want to be a paramedic when yougrow up?
And I was really young.
I it it was before I was eightyears old, but I looked directly
(26:49):
into the camera and I said, No,I want to be a ballerina.
So when you say some people seetheir parents go into this and
they they say that they don'twant to follow in their
footsteps, I think that alongthe way I had a few thoughts of
that, but primarily I did knowthat I wanted to go and and
serve the people that my parentsand my entire family had served
(27:11):
before that.
So come my graduation when my mydad had come to me and said, I
want you to write this book withme.
At the time, I had been studyingwriting.
So I had a few of my professorswould invite our family members
in to listen to our stories.
And my parents never missed one.
So he he had come to me andsaid, You're this amazing
(27:34):
writer, and I want you to dothis with me.
And of course, he's my dad.
He's gonna say that to me.
So I was I was like, okay, yeah,I don't know.
But I had plans.
I had other plans going intothis.
And I want to, again, I wantedto continue a life of service.
And so I said, I said, no, Idon't think that I want to do
that.
I think I want to follow adifferent path.
And and he came back and hepushed back at me and he said,
(27:57):
Well, if that's really what youwant, okay, I'll support you.
But I I really want you to goback and take some time to think
about this.
And I said, All right, fine.
So I went back to my dorm roomand I I kind of was thinking
about it.
And I the thing that was pushingme the most was the fact that I
wanted to help people.
And so I my mindset when I wassaying no to him was the fact
(28:18):
that this wouldn't help people.
And so when I had pondered withit in my dorm, I kind of changed
that mindset to that this isgoing to help people, this is
going to save lives.
So I went back to him and Isaid, you know what?
I think you're right.
I think that this is somethingthat we should do.
And so, so we began thisjourney, and it's been a long
(28:39):
journey for for now, and it'sbeen a great one.
But going back, I think that mymindset really did change
because of the fact that Ithought that these stories are
not only for the lay person,it's for the profession, the
professional, and all of thosehealthcare workers who don't get
to see the effects of what theydo every single day.
(29:00):
In EMS, the EMTs and theparamedics come to the emergency
room, they get maybe maximum 30minutes with the patient, maybe
40 minutes, depending on thecall.
They drop them off to theemergency room, they don't hear
from them again.
And it's very similar in theemergency room in the sense that
we treat them, and it may be fordays, it may be longer than EMS,
(29:21):
but we send them up to thefloors.
We pretty much, our job is toget them stable so that they can
go to a more floor that's that'smore catered to their needs.
And so we never get thatlong-reaching arc of the fact
that our actions have theseamazing consequences.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
And which I never honestly, until Keir said it the
other day, I never thought of itthat way.
I never thought about theemergency room nurse having that
very similar kind of experienceor the physician, the ER
physician, where they just hadthis fairly short interaction
with a patient and then theytransferred him somewhere else
and really never got to see himagain.
Unless, of course, they cameback in the emergency room for
(30:03):
whatever reason.
But I mean, I hadn't thoughtabout that.
So when you think abouthealthcare, who do who are we
serving?
It's not just, it's just notpre-hospital.
I mean, this is the continuum ofcare.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
And I think too that for the layperson or the
civilian, that by telling thesestories, and and it's something
that you definitely know too,when you kind of gear somebody
up, by telling stories, they canrehearse it in their mind and
and through training and action,they're going to be more willing
to act.
Not only that, but they're gonnahave better outcomes mentally
(30:35):
after the fact.
They're not as prone to PTSD asthey would be if they hadn't
gone through the scenario priorto actually doing it in real
life.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
Right.
There's so many things aboutneuroplasticity that we can talk
about here.
Neuroplasticity is seen as asavior, but it can also be a way
to reprogram your brain in anegative way.
And it really is the processthat's important.
You know, I think that what youjust talked about is having the
experience of a parent orparents doing it can also show
(31:06):
you what not to do.
And I'm not trying to be mean,Brad.
I'm just saying there'ssomething to be said about that.
Sure.
You know, and I have a stickerin my office that says, Don't
worry, I practice on a mannequinonce rich really helps.
Most of the guys think that'sfunny.
SPEAKER_02 (31:19):
Oh, we need that.
That's hilarious.
That is awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
We know what I'm gonna send it to you.
I'll uh I'll do that after, butI will definitely, it's one of
my favorite stickers because Ialways think about that.
Don't worry, I've done it on amannequin once.
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
And I think, I think too, I just want to add real
quick that it's it's I thinkthere's a big audience that
we're forgetting from the thehealthcare professionals and the
lay people or the civilians, isthe people who are currently
civilians who in a few monthswill become healthcare
professionals.
And and I I like to talk abouthow you walk into an EMT class
(31:54):
downstairs where we host them,and you'll have these 18,
19-year-old kids.
And they are, they, they're theybring a freshness to EMS
education.
And we we have so manyinstructors who have been in the
profession for so many years whocan attest to this.
But they it it's light, it'sit's new, and they don't have
(32:16):
the hardcore experiences that wethat the rest of us have, or you
know, this dark humor that weuse to cope.
But I I think too, it thesestories, and and which is
something that you could attestto too by just giving them to
paramedic graduates, they theydon't have these experiences and
just kind of gearing them up forit does does bring a little a
(32:36):
little hope for them thatthey're gonna be okay in the
end.
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Well, as we get to the first half hour here, I'd
like to continue thisconversation, particularly to
call about the saved effect andthe stories, because I think
those stories are so valuable.
And to some extent, I believethat if a paramedic first
responder of any kind kind ofwrites it down, it can almost be
therapeutic for them to write itdown and share that story.
But I think that's a goodsubject to start off the second
(33:01):
part of that episode.
Are you willing to stick aroundfor another half hour, guys?
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, so let me uh saythank you to the audience for
this and uh don't forget to comeback for the next episode.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(33:37):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Well, hi everyone, and welcome to Resilience
Development in Action.
I am so happy to have fellowMassachusetts people.
I know I'm a hypocrite, I'm fromCanada, but nonetheless, very
happy to have people fromMassachusetts because I don't
get those a whole lot.
And I'm very happy to have hereBrad Newberry, who is a captain
paramedic for more 40 years ofexperience in firefighting and
(00:50):
EMS, and Kira Newberry, who'salso his daughter and is an EMT
and emergency room technician atBet Israel, like at the BI.
That's quite an experience initself, I'm sure.
But I wanted to welcome you bothto Resilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Thank you for having us.
We're excited for this.
SPEAKER_03 (01:08):
You know, just based on these intros, and I saw your
like mother, like you know,father, daughter, that's already
a 14 questions there.
Being a captain and a paramedicfor 40 years, many questions
there.
I run a group and I have a fewemergency room technicians and
nurses that come to the groupwith the first responders.
And I know that becomes allcontroversial if they're a first
(01:30):
responder or not.
I frankly don't care.
We'll call them first respondersin a half.
Is that a good way to discussit?
Because they are in the frontline in some ways.
Absolutely.
That's how I perceive it anyway.
But being EMT and working, ifyou if you worked also for like
you work for a town, it's hard.
But if you worked for acontracted company, that's even
harder sometimes.
(01:50):
So anyway, I have about 40questions about those things,
but we have other things to talkabout.
So how about we start off withwe'll go with Brad first?
I'm you can choose as we goalong.
Brad, how about you introduceyourself?
Because I introduced you barely,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Sure.
I mean, I think you you hit thehigh points, right?
I I have been in uh fire and EMSfor now over 40 years.
My favorite line is I don't lookthat old, but the reality is I I
started when I was 16 years old.
I joined the the Tivenar, RhodeIsland Volunteer Fire
Department, and and I've hadcontinuous service ever since
then.
It was always something I wantedto do.
(02:25):
I grew up watching the showEmergency, and and Johnny and
Roy inspired me in so many ways.
And and not only just as a as afirefighter, but I also wanted
to be a paramedic, right?
I mean, uh LA County uhparamedics and firefighters back
in the 70s was something that asI watched that, I said, this is
this is what's for me.
And and it wasn't until I wasabout 10 years old where I got
(02:48):
to do some ride-along.
My uncle was a Fall Riverfirefighter.
So here in Massachusetts, asmall city on the south on the
Rhode Island border.
And and I got to do someride-alongs with with my uncle,
and it was an amazingopportunity to see the men at
the time do what they did.
And and it really inspired me tothis life of service.
So as soon as I joined 16, assoon as I turned 16, literally
(03:11):
the day I turned 16, I joinedthe uh fire department in in in
Tivernary, Rhode Island.
I still think it's amazing thatthey allowed me at 16 years old
to crawl into building fires.
And and back in the 80s, we hada lot of fires.
So that set me on this life ofservice.
And throughout my youngadulthood, I went to became an
EMT and then went on toparamedic school.
(03:31):
And I was 20 years old when Ibecame a paramedic.
So yeah, it was it's been anamazing career.
And and people would ask, youknow, as I talk about it today,
all the things that I've beenblessed to do in my life and to
get to this point, both on onthe service side, but also too
as an educator, because I I ownNational Medical Education and
(03:53):
Training Center.
We're an incredibly large EMSeducation institution here in
Massachusetts where we teachEMTs and paramedics.
We have a EMT and paramedicprogram, a nationally accredited
paramedic program.
And we serve students from allover the country and around the
world.
So back in 2007, I launched oneof the first online hybrid
(04:14):
paramedic programs in thecountry.
It doesn't seem so novel now,but when you think about 2007,
no one was doing onlineeducation.
So here at our school, you know,we've been open now since 2010.
And so we've we're 16 years old.
And we service, you know, rightnow at our school today, we have
students from around the countryand and around the globe.
(04:36):
Along the way, we be somehowbecame the Iceland paramedics
program in a sense.
We train, I shouldn't say withthe Iceland paramedic, but we
train most of the paramedics inIceland now, too as well.
So we have this incrediblehybrid program that has amazing
outcomes and and we get to toserve in a in a different way,
not just one patient at a time,but as educators, we get to
(04:58):
really impact the care that'sbeing delivered through all of
our students throughout thecountry.
And, you know, I also work forthe Disaster Medicine Fellowship
at the Beth Israel Hospital.
So we have a in a we teach adisaster medicine, disaster
response to an internationalgroup of physicians and and
nurses at the BI.
And that has given me incredibleopportunities to teach really
(05:22):
around the world.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
You know, there's two things I want to mention.
So many people forget that thisis a life of service.
And I appreciate you sayingthose exact words.
So thank you for the service.
I and I appreciate it more thanyou know.
I also had a comment about whatyou said.
You mean there were TVs and TVshows when you were young?
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
It was a black and white TV, Steve.
It was a black and white TV.
So which is it is funny.
I actually wrote that in in inonce and and talked about that.
And and it's so think about howforeign it is, Kira to grew up
in an era of only iPhones andnever any black and white TVs in
our house.
SPEAKER_03 (06:02):
So take that as a very good joke that I'm also
making about myself because Iknew what shows you were talking
about.
So let's leave it at that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Well, we we remember the time where your your parents
would say, get up and change itto channel 10 or channel six or
whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (06:17):
Yeah, the clicker, the the clicker was you turning
the knob.
That's right.
That's right.
On UHF, you gotta put it on 56.
I remember those days too, butenough of us dinosaurs talking.
Let's talk about someone talk tosomeone who's a little younger.
How about you introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
So my journey began when I was real young, and it it
really started because myparents had opened this school.
And I'm the youngest of three,so I have an older brother who's
eight years older than me, andolder sister who's five years
older than me.
And so at the time, they hadbeen trying to figure out their
place uh in the school and whattheir role will be.
(06:54):
And both of them knew that theyalso wanted to go into the
medical field and kind of followinto our parents' footsteps.
And it's so funny because now Ikind of reflect on it.
And eight years old, I was kindof running around the school,
and a lot of the students, itwas a lot smaller back then, so
we really were a big family.
(07:17):
And you know the EMS community,it is a big family.
So a lot of the students kind oftook me under their wing and
they were excited to show me alot of the things that they had
just learned.
And in a way, I also thoughtthat I could teach them
something too.
But one thing that I love to dowas intubate mannequins.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
And just like every eight-year-old that I'm of
course, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
Exactly.
And I I couldn't touch theneedles yet, so we didn't get
that far.
But I would go up to thestudents and I have a real
competitive nature to me.
And so I would go to them andI'd say, Well, I bet I could
intubate the mannequin fasterthan you.
And so it got to the point wheresome of these students would
(08:02):
actually bet money on me.
And so I one time went to my dadand I said, Hey, can I have five
dollars?
Do you have five dollars?
And he's always up for the c thecompetition too.
So he said, Okay, well, what'sit for?
And I said, Well, Joey bet methat he could that I wouldn't be
able to beat him in thiscompetition to intubate the
(08:23):
mannequin.
And so, but he said that Ineeded five dollars to to do it.
And so he he said, I'm all in,gave me five dollars, and I I
went off, and then a few minuteslater I came back and I had a$20
bill.
And I said, Oh, do you do youhave like change to break this
$20 bill?
He said, Where where did you getthe$20 bill?
(08:44):
And why do you want change tobreak it?
And I said I said, Well, I wantto give you your five dollars
back.
He goes, Where did you get thetwenty dollar bill?
And I said, Well, Joey just kepthe just kept betting me that I I
wouldn't be able to do it.
And it became this big joke.
And and even later on, there wasa really one time where somebody
kind of said, or somebody wasable to kind of beat me, but I
(09:07):
think she was taking souls,Steve.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
This is what she was doing.
She was taking souls in theparamedic program.
SPEAKER_03 (09:11):
I was gonna say, like, all right.
You just made everyone feel alittle snorted.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
Like David Goggins.
She was like the David Gogginsof uh enemies.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
So there was one guy who who he was really
determined.
We kept we kept competingagainst each other, and he he
finally beat me by a hair.
And I looked over and I said,Well, I you actually didn't beat
me because you didn't inflatethe cuff on the tube, which is a
critical fail.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
And so everybody was gathered around because this
would this would bring crowds,really.
And so he he was so mad athimself.
But yeah, so I've always hadthat camaraderie for for me, and
especially in the world of EMS.
But I went to my dad one day andI said, I I need I want to
become an EMT.
And this was also when I waseight years old.
(10:01):
And he said, Well, okay, youcan't become an EMT.
You have to be 18 to sit for theexam and become licensed.
And I said, No, no, I can sit onon the I can sit in on these
classes and I can do a lot ofthese skills.
I want to become an EMT.
I want the license.
And he said, No, Massachusettswon't let that happen.
(10:21):
So I was really bummed.
And I went online.
Of course, I was Googling if Iwas actually able to not become
an EMT and if he was lying to meor not.
And but I had found online thatI was able to complete a CPR
certification course and becomeCPR licensed or CPR certified.
And there was no minimum agerequirement.
So at eight years old, I went tomy parents and I said, Well, if
(10:45):
I can't become an EMT, this issomething that I want to do.
And they said, Okay.
So I took the course online andI took notes and I took it
literally because I had seen myolder siblings going through
different courses and and doingthings at the school, and I
wanted to also be a part of it.
And so we had gone to the schoolto so that I could show my
(11:06):
skills to my dad.
And I looked over at him and hehad been taking videos and
pictures of me, and I justthought it was this proud dad
moment, like he had always donefor all of my other
achievements.
And so he but a few years later,to come to find out, he wasn't
just taking them because of itwas a proud dad moment, which
I'm sure it was, but at the sametime, he was really doing it for
(11:28):
insurance purposes, to the factthat he wasn't just handing out
these cards to eight-year-oldgirls because I was his
daughter.
And it proved that I knew whatto do and I had those skills and
I'd been practicing.
But a little later on, Iactually did go through the EMT
course and become licensed inMassachusetts.
And then a few years later, Ibegan working at level one
(11:51):
trauma center in Boston at theBI.
And I worked there for aroundthree years, and I got some
amazing experience, and Ilearned more than any textbook
could ever teach me.
And yeah, so I I kind of havededicated also, just like my
dad, I've also dedicated my lifeto service.
(12:11):
And I was graduating college.
I I went, I majored inpsychology and I minored in
writing.
And when I was coming out andgraduating, I I kind of had this
epiphany that I had always seenmyself doing something that
served my community and servedothers.
And when he when my dad had,which I'm sure we'll get into
later, when my dad had broughtthis idea to me and said, Can we
(12:33):
write this?
I originally told him no.
And that was kind of a drivingfactor because I really wanted
to serve others and be a part ofsomething clinical.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
So you have to understand too, Steve, we're a
whole healthcare family.
So my wife is a nursepractitioner.
You know, she had been a nursefor many, many years.
My son's an EMT, worked workedon the ambulance.
My older daughter, Bridget, uh,is an emergency room nurse at
BI.
Uh and and there's a whole storyof how the two of them actually
got there.
That's an incredible story.
(13:04):
And and she just actually, thispast week passed her nurse
practitioner.
So she's a nurse practitionernow, too, as well.
My son-in-law is a firefighterparamedic in in the town of
Duxbury.
My daughter-in-law is anemergency room nurse.
So and my mother-in-law is anurse.
So we're we're we're built forservice.
SPEAKER_03 (13:20):
So the first thing that comes to mind is why did
you make a vow of poverty?
I mean, I thought we were donewith these things.
That's the first thing thatcomes to mind.
And me seeing the personoversees the ERs and two major
Boston ERs.
I don't have a permission to saywhich ones, we can talk about it
off air.
I feel for you guys.
So, you know, this is you know,that's what people tend to
(13:42):
forget about these jobs.
And I think therapy is the sameway.
It was a calling for me.
It wasn't, I knew I wasn't gonnabe a millionaire, but definitely
it was a calling.
And I think that when you do theservice, you know, I see my my
work as a service too, verydifferent than yours.
I'm not saying it's the same,but you need to be dedicated,
and hearing an eight-year-oldgirl like intubating and betting
(14:04):
with firefighters is par for thecourse, number one, knowing the
people, but more importantly,super impressive.
And I want to mention that too,because that's really cool
because they don't let people invery easily, they're
competitive, so they don't likeletting people in.
And I thought the world oftherapy was really small, the
world of EMS in general isreally fucking small.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah.
And I do, I I do think thatthere are a lot of parallels
with therapy and and the EMSculture.
SPEAKER_03 (14:39):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was amazing, and I
really enjoyed wearing it.
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Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activewear and a
leisure brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(15:01):
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know they're talking to them.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
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(15:25):
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Now, right back to the episode.
And I think that that's whatbrings me to, you know, a little
bit of my work, you know, andtalking a little bit about you
guys, you know.
(15:45):
So you watch your dad go througheverything, and you're 88 years
old, you're doing you're workingat the school and all that.
So you decide you're gonna,you're gonna be like, okay, we
should write something calledthe saved effect together.
Two generations different.
One's like looking up theencyclopedia for the definition,
the other one already knows howto do it with Ray-Band glasses
(16:06):
or something I don't understand.
So, how did you both learn abouttrauma, resilience, human
connection, how to connect withother people?
And frankly, like there's agender difference too.
I know there's mu we'll talkabout the father-daughter
difference, but let's talk aboutalso the gender difference,
which you know, again, if I'mbreaking a wall, you correct me.
(16:26):
But men get treated differentlythan women in this field.
Shocker, I know.
But I think there's a lot to besaid about all that.
So I don't know where whereveryou want to start.
Because I mean the trauma stuff,I think the trauma of an older
generation, no offense, Brad,and I'm an older generation.
We see it way differently thanthe younger generation.
For us, it's like, you know,tough it, you know, suck it up,
buttercup, dude.
(16:47):
Yep.
Where this generation is verywell aware.
Oh, this may have impact me.
Some people are a little toosensitive, but for the most
part, I think they're generallywell like, oh, this might impact
me in the future.
I need to address it now.
Our generation, like, fuck thisshit.
I gotta get through the nextcall.
There's gotta be a lot of thingsabout resilience, the trauma,
the human connection, and thegender differences.
(17:08):
You can start wherever you want,but I think there's about 50
minutes worth of conversationright there.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
And and I think we have to understand too, like,
where did the where did the ideafrom the book come from?
And I've been I've been given atalk at every paramedic
graduation for many, many years,including Kira has is heard it
ad nauseum because she it's thesame story I would tell over and
over again.
And they're actually kind offunny because the kids would
make fun of me about it, but Itell them all the time.
(17:35):
It's like you heard thesestories, you hear them over and
over again.
These kids are hearing them forthe first time, and they're
human stories.
So the the story it reallyrevolves around what does it
mean to save a life?
And and it's I start off withthis this story that's in the
book about Frank Nagel, and andcircumstances led me to be
involved in Frank'sresuscitation.
(17:57):
And then, you know, I won'tunpack the whole thing, but
Frank, we we defibrillated Frankfive times.
And by the time we left in theemergency room, he was up
talking to his family.
And then through in anincredible story, I actually got
to stay connected to Frankpost-is resuscitation.
And Frank lived another 25 yearspost-resuscitation.
(18:18):
And the impact, or really theripple effect of that was
absolutely amazing.
And and for the book, we here inour in our school, in our studio
here where we're sitting, webrought in Frank's family
because Frank's passed away.
And it wasn't until Frank hadpassed away, and another
gentleman who had passed away, Iwas involved in his
resuscitation too.
(18:39):
And and John Perino is anotherstory in the book.
And and John lived after morethan 30 plus minutes of CPR in
the field, he livedneurologically intact.
He he spent two weeks in a coma,woke up, and went home to his
family, and lived 27 more years.
And the incredible ripple effectof that, and I use this metaphor
that I've told in in this inthese talks about about Frank,
(19:04):
about throwing a pebble in thepond, and the ripple effect of
where those ripples go.
And so when I first came to Kiraabout this, I already had this
idea of writing this book aboutsome of these incredibly human
stories.
And there's two there's two realmessages that come out of this
book.
The first one is, you know, anumber of these resuscitations
(19:25):
uh happened.
You know, John Perino uh wentinto cardiac arrest on the dance
floor in the Polish Club in 1994in Abington, Massachusetts.
Two bystanders who were werepart of the crowd that night
stepped forward and began CPRimmediately.
And because they did, that gaveus the time to respond, to get
to that emergency, too.
(19:46):
So it bridged the gap.
And we know that bystanders makea huge difference in in
out-of-hospital cardiac arrestsurvivability.
So that's number one.
But the second part of thesestories, and you talk about from
a mental health standpoint offirst responders, many of the
times we don't get to see thearc of time of a save.
(20:07):
And we'll go to a call, we dropthem off at the hospital, maybe,
and I think more so in todaythan they were back in the in
the you talk about, you know,the the back in the 90s, in the
early 90s, there was nopost-traumatic stress debriefing
or any of those things that thatI went through.
And I I was the the son of aforce recon Marine.
(20:27):
I grew up in the suck it suck itup buttercup environment, right?
And actually, I used to tell mykids that too.
Like, ask Kira.
It's like, okay, you're justgonna have to suck it up, right?
We'll move on.
And and don't get me wrong, mydad was an amazing guy.
I mean, amazing guy.
And, you know, and it's so funnybecause he, as he, you know, he
talked about suck it up.
My father would cry atcommercials just because he was
(20:47):
an incredibly emotional guy anda very people person.
And there is a story in thebook, too.
My dad suffered an out-ofhospital cardiac arrest at a
dance recital.
And two bystanders stepped inand did CPR.
Wow.
And and and he survived thatneurologically intact.
Like unbelievable.
It's a great story.
So I think from uh both on theside of the two audiences, one
(21:11):
is the layperson to be inspiredby these, and we say it at the
end of every chapter, you know,be inspired, learn, learn CPR,
and be ready and willing to act.
Because we also know that thataction is something that makes a
difference.
But on the mental health side, Ifound it incredibly cathartic
writing and but also, you know,listening to the stories of not
(21:32):
only the survivors, but thefamilies of the survivors.
Because we don't generallyconnect the two.
We might think about theindividual and the life that was
saved that day, but we'regenerally not thinking about
their their children, their grtheir grandchildren, their great
grandchildren, their community,all of the individuals that, if
(21:52):
he had died that day, or thatperson had died that day, all of
those connections and all ofthose ripples would have
stopped.
Because they lived, they allcontinued.
And see, when I think about youknow connecting back to the I've
been asking every paramedicclass since I've been teaching
for well more than 20 years, whyare you here?
(22:14):
Right.
I think Simon Seneck stole myidea of of you know of of why.
I tease about that.
I love Simon and his work.
But but literally I've had apresentation that I give to
first day of every paramedicclass, and I ask, why are you
here?
Because I also know that ittakes perseverance and
dedication to get through, youknow, being an EMS provider, not
(22:35):
only on the education side, butalso later on as you become a
provider.
And it's like to me, is like,can you connect yourself back to
why?
Why did you do this?
What's driving you every day?
What makes you get up in themorning and go to that shift,
despite yesterday was a toughday, too?
And and I worked incredibly busyEMS systems, and I'm sure some
of your audience they have too.
(22:56):
And and then we see sometimeswhat the worst of mankind can do
to each other.
I mean, I have literally have 36years as a paramedic.
And and all of those years andthe culmination of that, how do
you stay healthy from aresilience standpoint?
So when I started writing thisbook, I I realized that I wasn't
just writing it for, and Iwasn't writing the stories.
(23:17):
And the stories that I wereinvolved in, I wrote the other
stories that I wasn't involvedin that we curated for the book
that we knew about, Kira wrotethose.
And so when when I was writingthese stories, and even today,
they they're emotional.
I mean very emotional.
And because to me, it's likewhen you're connecting that
story, and you're connecting it,and and so many times we try to
(23:39):
stay as, and I don't want to saysterile, but emotionally sterile
as as possible in the moment.
However, taking care of peopleis human.
And and it's connecting thatstory to the emotions of taking
care of people.
And I think that was the biggestthing about writing the book.
And then from a mental healthstandpoint, you know, I've
always wondered how do I howhave I stayed so healthy over
(24:01):
the all of my careeremotionally?
And and then, you know, I'vecertainly have been on some
incredibly uh difficult andchallenging calls and and have
seen co-workers who are sufferedfrom because of that.
And and I always wondered, am Ilike a cold, heartless bastard
sometimes?
And but it's not.
I I think that, you know, I oneof the things I've taught for
(24:22):
years is that you know it's notmy fault.
It's just my problem.
And I didn't cause any of thosethings that we get we go to see.
And and so I've stayed fairlyhealthy over the years and and
kind of rationalizing, but Ialso think, too, that that true
injury, and I'm sure you couldtalk way more about this than I
could, of that of you know, thattrue brain injury that happens
(24:46):
with PTSD.
So when we go back to like whydo we write this book, uh it was
to tell those human stories tonot only our profession, but but
also to inspire the lay personto learn CPR because we have
some incredible stories thatstart with that bystander.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
I get to you, Kira.
There's just a few things I wantto say.
Emotion, what's that word?
What does that mean?
I don't know.
I try to keep myself from havingthose.
Uh, but no, that's the otherpart too, is that sometimes we
do have people who think thatthey can't they can go without
emotions.
Yeah, suck it up butterkaexists, but that doesn't mean
there's not emotions behindthere that affect you.
So that's why I joked aroundabout that.
(25:23):
Why are you here is my questionfor anyone who comes in for my
sessions.
Why are you here is always myfirst question.
And most people are shocked tobe told that because I'm like,
if you're here for someone else,leave.
There's no point to it.
I'm not gonna waste my time withyou.
And if you're here for yourselfand you want to get better and
you want me to cure you again,we're gonna change the language
(25:45):
of curing because I've nevercured a human being in my life.
I'd cure myself first if Icould.
But the other part is beinspired is so key.
And maybe this is a good jumpingpoint for you, Kira, to come and
jump in, talk uh, continue alittle bit on the ideas of Brad
or your dad, and talk about youknow, inspir inspiration.
Because it's funny because youeither have families or like
(26:06):
they watch their dad or mom workin this field and go, my god,
that's what I want to do, or ohmy god, is that something I
never ever ever want to fuckingdo?
So I maybe that's a good jumpingpoint in talking about the same
thing, like the trauma, theresilience, and your perceptions
of all this, because it's verykey because I think the
generational difference is soimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
Yeah, I it's so funny you say that because a few
days ago, I I just previouslytalked about this, but a few
days ago I was going through alot of my parents' old Facebook
posts and I found a video of meshockingly intubating a
mannequin.
And my mom was recording me andshe said, Kira, like, do you
want to be a paramedic when yougrow up?
And I was really young.
I it it was before I was eightyears old, but I looked directly
(26:49):
into the camera and I said, No,I want to be a ballerina.
So when you say some people seetheir parents go into this and
they they say that they don'twant to follow in their
footsteps, I think that alongthe way I had a few thoughts of
that, but primarily I did knowthat I wanted to go and and
serve the people that my parentsand my entire family had served
(27:11):
before that.
So come my graduation when my mydad had come to me and said, I
want you to write this book withme.
At the time, I had been studyingwriting.
So I had a few of my professorswould invite our family members
in to listen to our stories.
And my parents never missed one.
So he he had come to me andsaid, You're this amazing
(27:34):
writer, and I want you to dothis with me.
And of course, he's my dad.
He's gonna say that to me.
So I was I was like, okay, yeah,I don't know.
But I had plans.
I had other plans going intothis.
And I want to, again, I wantedto continue a life of service.
And so I said, I said, no, Idon't think that I want to do
that.
I think I want to follow adifferent path.
And and he came back and hepushed back at me and he said,
(27:57):
Well, if that's really what youwant, okay, I'll support you.
But I I really want you to goback and take some time to think
about this.
And I said, All right, fine.
So I went back to my dorm roomand I I kind of was thinking
about it.
And I the thing that was pushingme the most was the fact that I
wanted to help people.
And so I my mindset when I wassaying no to him was the fact
(28:18):
that this wouldn't help people.
And so when I had pondered withit in my dorm, I kind of changed
that mindset to that this isgoing to help people, this is
going to save lives.
So I went back to him and Isaid, you know what?
I think you're right.
I think that this is somethingthat we should do.
And so, so we began thisjourney, and it's been a long
(28:39):
journey for for now, and it'sbeen a great one.
But going back, I think that mymindset really did change
because of the fact that Ithought that these stories are
not only for the lay person,it's for the profession, the
professional, and all of thosehealthcare workers who don't get
to see the effects of what theydo every single day.
(29:00):
In EMS, the EMTs and theparamedics come to the emergency
room, they get maybe maximum 30minutes with the patient, maybe
40 minutes, depending on thecall.
They drop them off to theemergency room, they don't hear
from them again.
And it's very similar in theemergency room in the sense that
we treat them, and it may be fordays, it may be longer than EMS,
(29:21):
but we send them up to thefloors.
We pretty much, our job is toget them stable so that they can
go to a more floor that's that'smore catered to their needs.
And so we never get thatlong-reaching arc of the fact
that our actions have theseamazing consequences.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
And which I never honestly, until Keir said it the
other day, I never thought of itthat way.
I never thought about theemergency room nurse having that
very similar kind of experienceor the physician, the ER
physician, where they just hadthis fairly short interaction
with a patient and then theytransferred him somewhere else
and really never got to see himagain.
Unless, of course, they cameback in the emergency room for
(30:03):
whatever reason.
But I mean, I hadn't thoughtabout that.
So when you think abouthealthcare, who do who are we
serving?
It's not just, it's just notpre-hospital.
I mean, this is the continuum ofcare.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
And I think too that for the layperson or the
civilian, that by telling thesestories, and and it's something
that you definitely know too,when you kind of gear somebody
up, by telling stories, they canrehearse it in their mind and
and through training and action,they're going to be more willing
to act.
Not only that, but they're gonnahave better outcomes mentally
(30:35):
after the fact.
They're not as prone to PTSD asthey would be if they hadn't
gone through the scenario priorto actually doing it in real
life.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
Right.
There's so many things aboutneuroplasticity that we can talk
about here.
Neuroplasticity is seen as asavior, but it can also be a way
to reprogram your brain in anegative way.
And it really is the processthat's important.
You know, I think that what youjust talked about is having the
experience of a parent orparents doing it can also show
(31:06):
you what not to do.
And I'm not trying to be mean,Brad.
I'm just saying there'ssomething to be said about that.
Sure.
You know, and I have a stickerin my office that says, Don't
worry, I practice on a mannequinonce rich really helps.
Most of the guys think that'sfunny.
SPEAKER_02 (31:19):
Oh, we need that.
That's hilarious.
That is awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
We know what I'm gonna send it to you.
I'll uh I'll do that after, butI will definitely, it's one of
my favorite stickers because Ialways think about that.
Don't worry, I've done it on amannequin once.
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
And I think, I think too, I just want to add real
quick that it's it's I thinkthere's a big audience that
we're forgetting from the thehealthcare professionals and the
lay people or the civilians, isthe people who are currently
civilians who in a few monthswill become healthcare
professionals.
And and I I like to talk abouthow you walk into an EMT class
(31:54):
downstairs where we host them,and you'll have these 18,
19-year-old kids.
And they are, they, they're theybring a freshness to EMS
education.
And we we have so manyinstructors who have been in the
profession for so many years whocan attest to this.
But they it it's light, it'sit's new, and they don't have
(32:16):
the hardcore experiences that wethat the rest of us have, or you
know, this dark humor that weuse to cope.
But I I think too, it thesestories, and and which is
something that you could attestto too by just giving them to
paramedic graduates, they theydon't have these experiences and
just kind of gearing them up forit does does bring a little a
(32:36):
little hope for them thatthey're gonna be okay in the
end.
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Well, as we get to the first half hour here, I'd
like to continue thisconversation, particularly to
call about the saved effect andthe stories, because I think
those stories are so valuable.
And to some extent, I believethat if a paramedic first
responder of any kind kind ofwrites it down, it can almost be
therapeutic for them to write itdown and share that story.
But I think that's a goodsubject to start off the second
(33:01):
part of that episode.
Are you willing to stick aroundfor another half hour, guys?
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, so let me uh saythank you to the audience for
this and uh don't forget to comeback for the next episode.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(33:37):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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