March 11, 2026 • 27 mins
The hardest part of getting help often isn’t the therapy—it’s knowing who to trust when everything feels at risk. We sit down with treatment navigator Nikki Mason to open the black box of first responder mental health: how to spot programs that truly understand police, fire, EMS, and dispatch, why families are the first to notice cracks, and what happens when a call for help goes unanswered. Nikki shares a clear rule that guides her work—if she wouldn’t send a loved one, she won’t send a client—and explains how on‑site vetting, consistent follow‑up, and cultural fluency separate real care from marketing.
We dig into the stigma that makes substance use easier to admit than trauma, the fear of losing a weapon or job after disclosure, and the outdated responses that taught generations to stay silent. Together we make the case for earlier touchpoints—peer support, wellness visits, and brief counseling framed as stress exposure care—so acute stress doesn’t calcify into chronic PTSD. Families take center stage here: the spouse who sees sleep erode, the adult child who senses withdrawal, the parent who hears the edge in a voice. Nikki lays out practical ways to nudge without cornering, from third‑party introductions to privacy‑respecting consults that lower defenses and build momentum.
This conversation is a field guide for anyone navigating help in uniform or at home with someone who is. You’ll learn what questions to ask programs about trauma modalities, co‑occurring care, confidentiality, and return‑to‑work coordination; why answering the phone at the first ring can be life‑saving; and how leaders can normalize support without punishment. If you serve, love someone who serves, or manage a team that does, you’ll walk away with next steps you can take today.
To find Nikki Mason, please visit Granite Recovery Centers - Rally Point Program: Detox, residential, PHP/IOP with lodging up in scenic New Hampshire, all in network with insurance
Also visit Open Sky - Crisis Intervention Training: 40 hour certificate training for law enforcement & first responders
We are a first responder owned company looking to get first responders in the best mental shape.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Hi, and welcome to Resilience Development in
Action.
This is episode 245.
In episode 244, I talked aboutmy survey and what I got as
feedback, what I'm gonna doabout it.
So hope you listen to that andyou really enjoy it.
But today is a great day becauseI just went to visit this great
treatment center.
And I really enjoyed beingthere.
(00:49):
And I know someone who's livedaround here.
I've known her for a long time,but we haven't had a chance to
sit down and do this podcast.
And I'm hoping that you guysenjoy her as much as I do.
She is always there whenever Icall.
And she, you know, she really issomeone who can help the first
responder world a lot betterthan many, many treaters I've
(01:12):
seen.
And I'm gonna keep it as nicelyas I can, and that's what I'm
gonna say here.
Uh Nikki Mason, welcome to uhResilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited that we getthe chance to sit down and chat.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
I'm just excited to speak to you because we we tend
to like run by each other.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
You know, I was down, I was up in uh New
Hampshire at the center, and weended up having a great time,
but we were like, hey, it's sogreat to talk to you.
Bye.
And then we haven't talked untilpretty much right now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Yes.
Yes, it's busy.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
That's what happens with these these relationships
you make in this field, in myopinion.
But what do I know?
Well, I feel like I know you,but I think maybe the audience
doesn't know who you are.
So you want to do a quickintroduction as to who you are?
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Nikki Mason.
I work right now with GraniteRecovery Centers as a business
development rep.
So doing treatment navigation,helping people get into
treatment for mental health andaddiction services.
SPEAKER_03 (02:10):
Just that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
That's that's the biggest part of what I do day to
day.
Yeah, but I'm also a mom.
I have two little kids at home,which keeps me pretty pretty
busy and tying up the rest ofthe time.
And then also, you know, justinvolved in the local community
here.
I live in Millbury and do a lotwith the schools and Girl Scouts
and just kind of being aresource wherever I can be a
(02:36):
resource.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
I think she's selling herself short.
I'm gonna tell you guys thiswoman has been involved when we
say in the community, you know,this is a podcast that goes
across the world essentially.
Not just your community, butpeople in Massachusetts and New
Hampshire, and I know people inVermont.
We just had a conversation aboutsomeone in Maryland that knows
you too.
And uh, Hannah, if you'relistening to it, that's like a
(03:00):
little confident about you.
We'll give you the funny storythat goes with that afterwards.
But no, but I think that whatyou gotta you gotta realize is
that you've really made animpact because I mean, you know,
there's a few people that I knowcall you regularly, and those
are the people who, you know,they'll they'll call BS right
away.
And I know you're the type ofperson I'll call BS right away.
(03:21):
So you're really sellingyourself short as to how much
work you actually do in thecommunity, never mind as a mom.
Yeah.
Um, and a Girl Scout leader andall that fun stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
And I think it's important toreally recognize, you know, the
BS and and call it out.
You know, I think that's a bigpart of what I do on a
day-to-day, just kind of inworking with various treatment
centers, working with differentindividual clinicians, kind of
any resource that you couldthink of or find.
You know, I like to go and checkit out.
(03:52):
I like to see what it's like.
Would I go there?
Would I send my loved one there?
You know, if the answer is no,probably not going to work with
them.
SPEAKER_03 (03:59):
Right.
And I think the vetting processis so important.
I think that what people don'trealize is that the particularly
this like I think that in thecivilian world, we need specific
places where we can say yay ornay.
But the first responder world tome is even more hard and more
difficult to handle.
And having people who say thatthey're experts in first
(04:21):
responder stuff versus realityare two different things.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yes.
That's just my experience.
Yeah, I think so.
And I think on the civilian sideas well, but especially for
first responders, I think it'svery delicate because if you
know we put our name on someoneand I put my Nikki Mason stamp
of approval and I say, hey, youcan go here.
This place is gonna take greatcare of you.
And then they get there and it'sa disaster, we lost them.
(04:45):
And then not only did we losethem, they're not gonna probably
participate in future treatment.
But word travels fast, and thenyou know, we can lose other
people as well that could havepotentially gone into treatment,
but now their hackles are up andthey're not really willing.
SPEAKER_03 (05:00):
And I you know as much as I do to business world,
right?
It's if you do if you like someplace, you might tell three to
four people.
But if you dislike a place,you'll tell nine to what,
twelve?
Is that something like that,yeah.
Many more.
I don't have an MBA, I'm justsome like therapist, right?
But yeah, I think that that'sabsolutely true.
And that's why, like, for me,whenever I make a referral, it's
(05:22):
usually someone I met, someone Iwent to, someone I sent someone
who I trust.
But I cannot make a referralthough because it's like you
said, it's the Nikki Masonstamp, it's the Steve Bisson
stamp.
It's like you you gotta be ableto talk about it intelligently,
or else it's a waste of time.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, we're fortunatethat we've built trust, you
know, throughout the communityand people trust you, people do
trust me, you know, and to keepthat going, you have to just
keep being honest.
And, you know, places canchange, people can change.
I've had places in the past thatI was like, maybe that's not my
favorite.
And things have turned around,and now, yeah, I absolutely
(06:00):
would send somebody there, andvice versa.
So I think it's important kindof find the connections and then
maintain the connections aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
And that's the hardest part, right?
I think that, you know, youknow, part of part of what being
on this podcast, I tell peopleit's for me to remember who my
resources are.
I really think that that'simportant, but it's really
getting those connections.
I mean, I try to text, you know,certain people.
Joe who's been in in studioright here with me, and I've
texted them a few times just tocheck in.
(06:30):
And I got the whole behind thebadge and beyond group.
I got you.
Hannah, once in a while I'llthrow in a little, hey, how are
you, type of thing.
But how do you keep up with allthat?
Because to me, that's thehardest part of my job anyway,
is to keep up all those greatrelationships.
I mean, I even think about whatI do for a podcast and Dominique
(06:51):
was on the other side thatpeople won't see, but I know her
and I truly love what the workshe's done.
She's done really good, but Ibarely talked to her.
How do you keep it up?
How do you keep up all thesegreat things?
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
It's a lot of driving around in my car and
talking on the phone.
You know, I when I first startedworking at Granite, I remember
my boss told me I was gonna havetwo jobs.
The first one would be to go outand make the phone ring, and the
second one would be to answerthe phone when it rings.
And that's really what I do.
You know, it's a lot ofoutreach, it's a lot of, you
know, physically showing up atplaces, you know, finding time
(07:26):
to just sit down and and chatwith people, even if it's 10
minutes, 15 minutes, just thatkind of constant outreach and
follow-up.
And then I think, you know, onthe flip side of that, that
important piece of responding topeople and and being there when
they reach out.
SPEAKER_03 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean, that's the important part, right?
You gotta be able to answer thephone.
Just had that conversation thismorning with another place where
they're like, well, we don'talways answer the phone.
I'm like, and that is probablywhy you're not recognized as
someone who works in this field.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's, you know, it'sone of those things where it's
something you have to recognizeis it could potentially be
life-saving.
You know, somebody on the otherend of the line, they're not
calling because it's their bestday.
And even if it's a social workerat a hospital or at another
treatment center, like they'rerepresenting that person.
You know, so being available andand even if I can't help them
(08:21):
right away, at least pointingthem to a resource that can.
And I think, you know, in myhousehold, it's become very
somewhat funny in that anytimemy phone rings, my kids will go
into like this panic mode oflike someone needs help,
everyone be quiet.
Mom needs to help someone.
And it's, you know, it's usuallylike a spam call or something to
that effect, not that serious.
SPEAKER_03 (08:42):
But it's have you checked your life insurance
lately?
unknown (08:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
It's just been kind of cute to see that trickle
down, you know, to the nextgeneration.
SPEAKER_03 (08:52):
Yeah, well, I my my daughters have grown through
that too.
And what I find funny today isthat they ask me if I can go
downstairs.
So they don't go quiet.
They're like, can you godownstairs?
We're watching something.
So it's a little differentnowadays.
They get a little older, theyhave a different point of view.
Yeah.
But they're used to it.
(09:13):
And sometimes I'll take a phonecall in the car for XYZ reason.
And my daughters know not totalk, and most of them put their
earbuds in so I can have aconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Yeah.
Yeah, we get big on headphonesin my house.
Some of the conversations aren'tnecessarily ones I want to have
in front of them, but necessary,you know, to have in the moment.
So we get creative and and wefigure it out.
It reminds me too.
I mean, growing up, I come froma first responder family.
So my dad was a retired statepolice lieutenant, my mom was a
(09:45):
nurse.
Now that, you know, me and mysiblings are older, my sister,
you know, is a BCBA, my brotheris a nurse in the ICU for
pediatrics.
I think that lifestyle, I guess,uh has a different flavor to it,
you know, at home as well.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
Yeah.
And I think it's funny becauseall I can think of is a nurse
and a police officer.
Can you more be morestereotypical?
Oh, yeah.
But anyway, just wanted to makesure that sorry, I'm sure
they're happy.
I'm just saying I that when yousaid that, I'm like, yeah, I've
never heard that story before.
Classic tale.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's the otherpart too, is the funny part is
(10:27):
that I didn't need to tell youwhat I meant that as a obviously
we're laughing here, and we knowit's not it's not a stereotype
if it doesn't come fromsomething.
But you know, you have yourconnection with your dad as a
with the first responder stuff.
Do you have any like besides himor maybe what he's been through
or something else, what has madeyour connection with first
(10:48):
responder so important to youand continue to work in this
field?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I think being in just kind of the social work
human services world for a longtime, I was working in programs
that were working with higheracuity clients.
When I kind of first started mycareer, I was working in
juvenile detention centers, Iwas working in locked inpatient
psychiatric units, and seeingthe trauma that occurs day in
(11:17):
and day out in these places, youknow, had really gotten me
thinking about what's on theother side of that.
And, you know, all the helpersare helping day in and day out,
but who's helping them?
You know, and then going intomore community-based work, you
know, again, just seeing firstresponders coming in, law
(11:38):
enforcement coming in, EMScoming in, you know, to some
pretty treacherous situations.
And that's a Tuesday, you know?
Right.
But who's who's on the backsideof that and who's really
providing that care?
You know, and unfortunately, alot of the times there's not
somebody or something there as asafety net.
SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
Well, or you have someone who doesn't know what to
do with that.
You know, and I think thatthat's the stuff that is very
difficult with you talked abouthaving, you know, your dad there
as a retired lieutenant.
Did I get the title right?
I'm not good I'm not good withtitles.
So yeah, well, you know, whenyou have an like you you have
that like hands-on experience,which is hard to explain to
(12:26):
people.
I think that that's the otherpart of being like culturally
aware, is the word I've comethrough with a couple of people.
Because you you can't understandunl unless you've been there and
lived it, in my opinion.
You know, I I used to think thatthat was BS because I've never
had schizophrenia, but I canteach and I can treat people
with schizophrenia.
But in the first responderworld, I think there's a lot of
(12:48):
value in having this hands-on,you know, family, friends,
neighbors married to it.
I mean, we've had different paruh different people on that had
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Now, right back to the episode.
Does that experience also changehow you work?
Does that change how you treatothers, or does it just like
make it another mm-ha moment foryou?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
I think it changes the way that I can relate to
first responder families forsure.
I think, you know, some of thepeople that I've spoken with, a
lot of times when I'm gettingphone calls for somebody, hey,
this person, you know, needshelp, they need a higher level
of care, they need detox,residential, you know, whatever
(14:32):
it may be, I've found that I'moften not talking to that
individual directly.
I'm often talking to a spouse,an adult child, somebody that's
close to them that is reallykind of driving the bus in terms
of them getting some additionalhelp and treatment.
You know, we often too will seechiefs, lieutenant, you know, if
(14:54):
something's happened at work andpeople are kind of required, you
know, being voluntoled for sometreatment, you know, it even
then it's usually that kind ofoutside peripheral contact.
And I think that being somebodythat has a lot of first
responders who are very close tome, it has helped me relate with
(15:15):
that person, you know, on a morepersonal level.
I think too, it also humanizesthe work.
And, you know, I say to myself,you know, if this was my dad, my
brother, my mom, you know,somebody that's very close to me
and looking for treatment, youknow, how would I want this
situation handled?
You know, and really kind ofputting myself in that spot as
(15:37):
well.
SPEAKER_03 (15:37):
And I think that that's the other part too that
you you just mentioned that's soimportant is the family.
We can talk about the workenvironment a little later on,
but I think that the family isalso kind of like I feel that
the only people who get the likethe real story are the family
members.
I think that with work you canput on a mask.
I think that in social searchsituations you can put on a
(16:00):
mask, but at home, it's hard tokeep up the mask all the time.
And I think that, you know, Idon't know if you want to talk a
little more, but you said, youknow, consulting with family
members.
I think to me, my experience hasbeen that they're the better
data collectors than the actualpatients of them.
SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:17):
Is that your experience or am I completely
wrong?
And for those of you listeningto me, and I just said that,
write to me if you're not happy,but tell me I'm wrong.
Just saying.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
No, I I absolutely agree.
I think, I mean, with all of us,it can be hard to reflect on
yourself and to notice whenyou're at a point where you need
some help.
You know, but the people thatare closest to us do see that.
I think, you know, especiallywith our first responders, the
culture is that they're thehelpers.
(16:46):
They're the ones that are takingcare of everybody else.
And if there's a crack in that,it can be perceived to them at
that moment as a sign ofweakness, or, you know, once the
cracks start forming, people getreally scared that they're just
going to completely fall apartand not be able to pull it back
together and do their job andtake care of their family and do
(17:06):
all the things.
So I think that wall comes up asa way for people to really
protect themselves, but youcan't hide that from the people
that are closest to you.
And sometimes I think the harderpeople try and hide it, the more
a family becomes concerned andstarts to see that there's some
things going on, you know, thatmight be an issue.
You know, I think with substanceuse, mental health, they're in
(17:29):
the same boat, in the samerealm, but can be very different
too.
You know, I think especiallywhen it comes to substance use,
people seem to have a little biteasier of a time sometimes,
admitting, you know, yeah, mydrinking's gotten a little out
of control.
Um, you know, I think that canbe sometimes an easier
(17:50):
conversation to have than youseem to be losing a little bit
of touch with reality on themental health side, or hey, you
seem like you're really downdepressed.
Are you thinking of hurtingyourself?
Like those kinds ofconversations can be more
challenging in my experience tohave.
SPEAKER_03 (18:08):
Well, I think it's also kind of like more
acceptable for them to have asubstance abuse problem.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
100%.
SPEAKER_03 (18:14):
You know, oh, I'm and again, if I'm breaking a
wall here, oh, I'm just a drunk,or I'm just popping pills, or
versus you know what?
I think I have PTSD from the 800events I've seen, that's not
gonna fly.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:27):
Because the, you know, like if you have a
substance abuse, you don't loseyour weapon.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:32):
But if you have a mental health issue, the first
thought is, are they gonna takemy weapon away?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Yep.
Yep.
And that's often, you know,within the first five questions
that I'm I'm getting from peopleis, you know, am I gonna lose,
am I gonna lose my job?
You know, are you gonna kidnapme away and I'm not gonna have
control over this situation?
You know, those are the bigconcerns.
Legitimately so.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
Oh, and and and it's not like it comes from nowhere,
because you know, like again, wewe we'll we'll get into work
before, but before, like Iremember this is not ancient
history.
I've been only here for 27 yearsor so.
As soon as there was a policeofficer that had some sort of
like just struggling, and andthis is old school, like I said,
(19:19):
it's about 20 something yearsago.
But the chief right away calledto get his gun, his badge, sit,
you're an admin leave.
And like he he like again, I wasa young kid, so I couldn't
really say, but in my hand, I'mlike, he just said that he had a
tough time.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we punishing him forbeing truthful?
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
Happens too often.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Yeah, it does.
And I think that that is why,you know, across all first
responders, law enforcement,fire, EMS, everybody.
There's that hesitancy to to askfor help.
I know recently I just had afriend of mine who's a
firefighter, sent me a text,hey, do you know anyone?
(20:03):
I think I should talk tosomebody.
And for me, I was like, are youokay?
Like, do I need to come to yourhouse?
Like, this is like huge redflags, because just for them to
say that was huge.
You know, for them to get to thepoint to reach out to me and
say, Hey, I think I might needto talk to somebody.
(20:24):
That's like, if it had been acivilian, they'd probably
already be in a hospitalsomewhere, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
Truly.
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Yeah, and I think that that's you know, that's
where the the fear is too incalling someone are they gonna
section me, or they're gonnaYeah, you know, and you see that
all the time, and it's sadbecause we we really have a
we've created an environmentwhere we're letting these
individuals get really bad.
(20:52):
And, you know, and there's somany things.
I mean, I'm gonna get off my I'mgonna get on my hor my high
horse here for a few seconds,but you know, there's wellness
visits, there's abilities to getsome support.
You don't need to wait till youneed therapy.
One of the thoughts I regularlyshare with my chiefs and
everyone else when I talk aboutthese programs that we they
(21:14):
have, you can make it acutestress disorder, which means it
goes away six months, and it'snot like it's completely gone
always there, but it's notovertaking their life.
Or you make it PTSD and then thetreatment's a little more
complex, takes a little longer,and will cause other issues in
the future.
I I like the acute stressdisorder diagnosis personally.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I mean, we're forced bynature of the work to put these
labels on things and you know,say this is this and this is
that.
But I think there are so manyopportunities, you know, for
people to get the help that theyneed without, you know, having
this lifelong label attached andthis lifelong stigma attached
(21:56):
and and losing their firearmsand losing their job and losing
all These things, you know,there are some pretty low
barrier entry points for peopleto reach out and get help.
There's groups, there'sone-on-one, you know, there's
peers, there's so many things.
But it's just helping people toget over that initial internal
(22:17):
barrier, I think is the hardestpart.
SPEAKER_03 (22:19):
And I think that that's a good point.
When you talk about the internalbarrier, I think that that's the
biggest problem, in my opinion.
Sorry.
When we when we talk about thoseinternal barriers, like what do
you like, what do we suggest tofamily members?
We talked a little bit of thefamily earlier.
Do we tell the family confrontit?
(22:40):
Do we tell the family deal withit?
Do we tell them call me moreoften?
I mean, how do we deal withthat?
Because I think family memberswant to help, but I think
sometimes they feel, no punintended, shackled.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there is a level ofhelplessness to it for anybody
that has a loved one that, youknow, struggling with substance
use, mental health, any of theseissues.
You know, and I think sometimeswe think if we could just hold
them down and force them intotreatment, then it would make
everything go away.
But we unfortunately know thatthat's not really true either.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
You know, so I think it is just kind of staying in
frequent contact with people.
I'll reach out.
If I have somebody that, youknow, calls and says, you know,
I really want my husband to getsome help.
He's not willing.
What do I do?
You know, there's ways to kindof introduce the concept.
I can be the person to introducethe concept.
Hey, I was just talking to thislady, you know, she has some
(23:36):
programs.
What do you think?
You know, sometimes bringing inthat third party, you know,
whether it's a person, whetherit's a resource, looking
something up, you know, theinternet has a wealth of
everything nowadays, you know,bringing those resources to the
individual and saying, like,hey, this looks kind of
familiar.
What do you think?
But I mean, at the end of theday, people aren't gonna get
(23:59):
help until they're ready.
Right.
Or something horrible happens.
SPEAKER_03 (24:03):
So And I think that you're absolutely right.
They won't get the help untilsomething bad happens or the
proverbial poop hits the fan.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we see in our programnow, I think a lot of times I
work, you know, with bothcivilians and first responders.
I think on an average basis, bythe time a first responder is
reaching out to get help, theacuity level and just everything
going on is so much deeper thanwhat we see on the civilian
(24:35):
side.
I think with the civilian side,people find themselves accessing
care one way or another.
It could even be through like avisit with their primary care
doctor.
Right.
You know, all these differentways that people can kind of
happen across some treatment.
Whereas with our first responderpopulation, I think they just
wait and wait and wait and theycarry that with them for so much
(24:58):
longer than they need to, youknow.
SPEAKER_03 (25:00):
I agree wholeheartedly.
And I think that the reason whyI wanted to put this on the
podcast is you're right.
It's, you know, there'ssometimes they get too far, and
that makes it even harder whenyou go to the treatment center.
Which you know, by the way,that's why people get to have
the recommendation of stayinglonger.
And I tell people that what thisis doing, I'm saying this on a
(25:20):
podcast for two reasons.
Number one, reach out for helpbefore like it gets bad.
Don't wait, wait till everythingbreaks and then say, okay, I
need help.
Number two, I I think that waswhat I wanted to do with this
part too, and I appreciate youkind of like letting me let it,
you're talking, but I also letme do this is I want first
responders who are listening tothis right now.
(25:42):
I want them to realize that ifthey're hurting, their family's
hurting too.
They may not be saying it, butthey see it and they hear it.
So that's why I wanted tomention that because I'm sure
you saw it when your family andyou've seen it in other
families.
It's one of those things thatthey know, so don't pretend they
don't and just be honest withit.
So that's why I want to talkabout that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it is just so important.
You know, people oftentimes whenthey're hurting, when they're
struggling, they get in thissilo of this only affects me.
But it's just not true.
You know, everybody has somebodysomewhere.
And, you know, the connection,even just with their job.
They want to be, you know,successful in their role and,
(26:23):
you know, go out and keep thecommunity safe, supported,
healthy, happy, all thosethings.
And you can't do that whenyou're not functioning like you
should be functioning.
You know, you can't.
SPEAKER_03 (26:35):
Well, you can have your cape Wonder Woman or
Superman, but it doesn't protectyou from the mental health and
psychological pressure that thatcreates.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
So you want to stick around for another half hour?
Because I think we have a lotmore to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Absolutely.
I'd love to.
SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
All right, perfect.
I just want to end this part andplease join us for part two with
Nikki Mason right after this.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(27:22):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Hi, and welcome to Resilience Development in
Action.
This is episode 245.
In episode 244, I talked aboutmy survey and what I got as
feedback, what I'm gonna doabout it.
So hope you listen to that andyou really enjoy it.
But today is a great day becauseI just went to visit this great
treatment center.
And I really enjoyed beingthere.
(00:49):
And I know someone who's livedaround here.
I've known her for a long time,but we haven't had a chance to
sit down and do this podcast.
And I'm hoping that you guysenjoy her as much as I do.
She is always there whenever Icall.
And she, you know, she really issomeone who can help the first
responder world a lot betterthan many, many treaters I've
(01:12):
seen.
And I'm gonna keep it as nicelyas I can, and that's what I'm
gonna say here.
Uh Nikki Mason, welcome to uhResilience Development in
Action.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited that we getthe chance to sit down and chat.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
I'm just excited to speak to you because we we tend
to like run by each other.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
You know, I was down, I was up in uh New
Hampshire at the center, and weended up having a great time,
but we were like, hey, it's sogreat to talk to you.
Bye.
And then we haven't talked untilpretty much right now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Yes.
Yes, it's busy.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
That's what happens with these these relationships
you make in this field, in myopinion.
But what do I know?
Well, I feel like I know you,but I think maybe the audience
doesn't know who you are.
So you want to do a quickintroduction as to who you are?
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Nikki Mason.
I work right now with GraniteRecovery Centers as a business
development rep.
So doing treatment navigation,helping people get into
treatment for mental health andaddiction services.
SPEAKER_03 (02:10):
Just that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
That's that's the biggest part of what I do day to
day.
Yeah, but I'm also a mom.
I have two little kids at home,which keeps me pretty pretty
busy and tying up the rest ofthe time.
And then also, you know, justinvolved in the local community
here.
I live in Millbury and do a lotwith the schools and Girl Scouts
and just kind of being aresource wherever I can be a
(02:36):
resource.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
I think she's selling herself short.
I'm gonna tell you guys thiswoman has been involved when we
say in the community, you know,this is a podcast that goes
across the world essentially.
Not just your community, butpeople in Massachusetts and New
Hampshire, and I know people inVermont.
We just had a conversation aboutsomeone in Maryland that knows
you too.
And uh, Hannah, if you'relistening to it, that's like a
(03:00):
little confident about you.
We'll give you the funny storythat goes with that afterwards.
But no, but I think that whatyou gotta you gotta realize is
that you've really made animpact because I mean, you know,
there's a few people that I knowcall you regularly, and those
are the people who, you know,they'll they'll call BS right
away.
And I know you're the type ofperson I'll call BS right away.
(03:21):
So you're really sellingyourself short as to how much
work you actually do in thecommunity, never mind as a mom.
Yeah.
Um, and a Girl Scout leader andall that fun stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
And I think it's important toreally recognize, you know, the
BS and and call it out.
You know, I think that's a bigpart of what I do on a
day-to-day, just kind of inworking with various treatment
centers, working with differentindividual clinicians, kind of
any resource that you couldthink of or find.
You know, I like to go and checkit out.
(03:52):
I like to see what it's like.
Would I go there?
Would I send my loved one there?
You know, if the answer is no,probably not going to work with
them.
SPEAKER_03 (03:59):
Right.
And I think the vetting processis so important.
I think that what people don'trealize is that the particularly
this like I think that in thecivilian world, we need specific
places where we can say yay ornay.
But the first responder world tome is even more hard and more
difficult to handle.
And having people who say thatthey're experts in first
(04:21):
responder stuff versus realityare two different things.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yes.
That's just my experience.
Yeah, I think so.
And I think on the civilian sideas well, but especially for
first responders, I think it'svery delicate because if you
know we put our name on someoneand I put my Nikki Mason stamp
of approval and I say, hey, youcan go here.
This place is gonna take greatcare of you.
And then they get there and it'sa disaster, we lost them.
(04:45):
And then not only did we losethem, they're not gonna probably
participate in future treatment.
But word travels fast, and thenyou know, we can lose other
people as well that could havepotentially gone into treatment,
but now their hackles are up andthey're not really willing.
SPEAKER_03 (05:00):
And I you know as much as I do to business world,
right?
It's if you do if you like someplace, you might tell three to
four people.
But if you dislike a place,you'll tell nine to what,
twelve?
Is that something like that,yeah.
Many more.
I don't have an MBA, I'm justsome like therapist, right?
But yeah, I think that that'sabsolutely true.
And that's why, like, for me,whenever I make a referral, it's
(05:22):
usually someone I met, someone Iwent to, someone I sent someone
who I trust.
But I cannot make a referralthough because it's like you
said, it's the Nikki Masonstamp, it's the Steve Bisson
stamp.
It's like you you gotta be ableto talk about it intelligently,
or else it's a waste of time.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, we're fortunatethat we've built trust, you
know, throughout the communityand people trust you, people do
trust me, you know, and to keepthat going, you have to just
keep being honest.
And, you know, places canchange, people can change.
I've had places in the past thatI was like, maybe that's not my
favorite.
And things have turned around,and now, yeah, I absolutely
(06:00):
would send somebody there, andvice versa.
So I think it's important kindof find the connections and then
maintain the connections aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
And that's the hardest part, right?
I think that, you know, youknow, part of part of what being
on this podcast, I tell peopleit's for me to remember who my
resources are.
I really think that that'simportant, but it's really
getting those connections.
I mean, I try to text, you know,certain people.
Joe who's been in in studioright here with me, and I've
texted them a few times just tocheck in.
(06:30):
And I got the whole behind thebadge and beyond group.
I got you.
Hannah, once in a while I'llthrow in a little, hey, how are
you, type of thing.
But how do you keep up with allthat?
Because to me, that's thehardest part of my job anyway,
is to keep up all those greatrelationships.
I mean, I even think about whatI do for a podcast and Dominique
(06:51):
was on the other side thatpeople won't see, but I know her
and I truly love what the workshe's done.
She's done really good, but Ibarely talked to her.
How do you keep it up?
How do you keep up all thesegreat things?
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
It's a lot of driving around in my car and
talking on the phone.
You know, I when I first startedworking at Granite, I remember
my boss told me I was gonna havetwo jobs.
The first one would be to go outand make the phone ring, and the
second one would be to answerthe phone when it rings.
And that's really what I do.
You know, it's a lot ofoutreach, it's a lot of, you
know, physically showing up atplaces, you know, finding time
(07:26):
to just sit down and and chatwith people, even if it's 10
minutes, 15 minutes, just thatkind of constant outreach and
follow-up.
And then I think, you know, onthe flip side of that, that
important piece of responding topeople and and being there when
they reach out.
SPEAKER_03 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean, that's the important part, right?
You gotta be able to answer thephone.
Just had that conversation thismorning with another place where
they're like, well, we don'talways answer the phone.
I'm like, and that is probablywhy you're not recognized as
someone who works in this field.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's, you know, it'sone of those things where it's
something you have to recognizeis it could potentially be
life-saving.
You know, somebody on the otherend of the line, they're not
calling because it's their bestday.
And even if it's a social workerat a hospital or at another
treatment center, like they'rerepresenting that person.
You know, so being available andand even if I can't help them
(08:21):
right away, at least pointingthem to a resource that can.
And I think, you know, in myhousehold, it's become very
somewhat funny in that anytimemy phone rings, my kids will go
into like this panic mode oflike someone needs help,
everyone be quiet.
Mom needs to help someone.
And it's, you know, it's usuallylike a spam call or something to
that effect, not that serious.
SPEAKER_03 (08:42):
But it's have you checked your life insurance
lately?
unknown (08:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
It's just been kind of cute to see that trickle
down, you know, to the nextgeneration.
SPEAKER_03 (08:52):
Yeah, well, I my my daughters have grown through
that too.
And what I find funny today isthat they ask me if I can go
downstairs.
So they don't go quiet.
They're like, can you godownstairs?
We're watching something.
So it's a little differentnowadays.
They get a little older, theyhave a different point of view.
Yeah.
But they're used to it.
(09:13):
And sometimes I'll take a phonecall in the car for XYZ reason.
And my daughters know not totalk, and most of them put their
earbuds in so I can have aconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Yeah.
Yeah, we get big on headphonesin my house.
Some of the conversations aren'tnecessarily ones I want to have
in front of them, but necessary,you know, to have in the moment.
So we get creative and and wefigure it out.
It reminds me too.
I mean, growing up, I come froma first responder family.
So my dad was a retired statepolice lieutenant, my mom was a
(09:45):
nurse.
Now that, you know, me and mysiblings are older, my sister,
you know, is a BCBA, my brotheris a nurse in the ICU for
pediatrics.
I think that lifestyle, I guess,uh has a different flavor to it,
you know, at home as well.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
Yeah.
And I think it's funny becauseall I can think of is a nurse
and a police officer.
Can you more be morestereotypical?
Oh, yeah.
But anyway, just wanted to makesure that sorry, I'm sure
they're happy.
I'm just saying I that when yousaid that, I'm like, yeah, I've
never heard that story before.
Classic tale.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's the otherpart too, is the funny part is
(10:27):
that I didn't need to tell youwhat I meant that as a obviously
we're laughing here, and we knowit's not it's not a stereotype
if it doesn't come fromsomething.
But you know, you have yourconnection with your dad as a
with the first responder stuff.
Do you have any like besides himor maybe what he's been through
or something else, what has madeyour connection with first
(10:48):
responder so important to youand continue to work in this
field?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I think being in just kind of the social work
human services world for a longtime, I was working in programs
that were working with higheracuity clients.
When I kind of first started mycareer, I was working in
juvenile detention centers, Iwas working in locked inpatient
psychiatric units, and seeingthe trauma that occurs day in
(11:17):
and day out in these places, youknow, had really gotten me
thinking about what's on theother side of that.
And, you know, all the helpersare helping day in and day out,
but who's helping them?
You know, and then going intomore community-based work, you
know, again, just seeing firstresponders coming in, law
(11:38):
enforcement coming in, EMScoming in, you know, to some
pretty treacherous situations.
And that's a Tuesday, you know?
Right.
But who's who's on the backsideof that and who's really
providing that care?
You know, and unfortunately, alot of the times there's not
somebody or something there as asafety net.
SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
Well, or you have someone who doesn't know what to
do with that.
You know, and I think thatthat's the stuff that is very
difficult with you talked abouthaving, you know, your dad there
as a retired lieutenant.
Did I get the title right?
I'm not good I'm not good withtitles.
So yeah, well, you know, whenyou have an like you you have
that like hands-on experience,which is hard to explain to
(12:26):
people.
I think that that's the otherpart of being like culturally
aware, is the word I've comethrough with a couple of people.
Because you you can't understandunl unless you've been there and
lived it, in my opinion.
You know, I I used to think thatthat was BS because I've never
had schizophrenia, but I canteach and I can treat people
with schizophrenia.
But in the first responderworld, I think there's a lot of
(12:48):
value in having this hands-on,you know, family, friends,
neighbors married to it.
I mean, we've had different paruh different people on that had
that.
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was a amazing, and I
really enjoyed wearing it.
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(13:09):
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activ active
wear and leisure brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
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I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
responders, our nonprofits,their name to uh Deemed Fit, and
I know they're talking to them.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
(13:29):
mental health for firstresponders.
And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
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(13:56):
checkout to save.
Now, right back to the episode.
Does that experience also changehow you work?
Does that change how you treatothers, or does it just like
make it another mm-ha moment foryou?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
I think it changes the way that I can relate to
first responder families forsure.
I think, you know, some of thepeople that I've spoken with, a
lot of times when I'm gettingphone calls for somebody, hey,
this person, you know, needshelp, they need a higher level
of care, they need detox,residential, you know, whatever
(14:32):
it may be, I've found that I'moften not talking to that
individual directly.
I'm often talking to a spouse,an adult child, somebody that's
close to them that is reallykind of driving the bus in terms
of them getting some additionalhelp and treatment.
You know, we often too will seechiefs, lieutenant, you know, if
(14:54):
something's happened at work andpeople are kind of required, you
know, being voluntoled for sometreatment, you know, it even
then it's usually that kind ofoutside peripheral contact.
And I think that being somebodythat has a lot of first
responders who are very close tome, it has helped me relate with
(15:15):
that person, you know, on a morepersonal level.
I think too, it also humanizesthe work.
And, you know, I say to myself,you know, if this was my dad, my
brother, my mom, you know,somebody that's very close to me
and looking for treatment, youknow, how would I want this
situation handled?
You know, and really kind ofputting myself in that spot as
(15:37):
well.
SPEAKER_03 (15:37):
And I think that that's the other part too that
you you just mentioned that's soimportant is the family.
We can talk about the workenvironment a little later on,
but I think that the family isalso kind of like I feel that
the only people who get the likethe real story are the family
members.
I think that with work you canput on a mask.
I think that in social searchsituations you can put on a
(16:00):
mask, but at home, it's hard tokeep up the mask all the time.
And I think that, you know, Idon't know if you want to talk a
little more, but you said, youknow, consulting with family
members.
I think to me, my experience hasbeen that they're the better
data collectors than the actualpatients of them.
SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:17):
Is that your experience or am I completely
wrong?
And for those of you listeningto me, and I just said that,
write to me if you're not happy,but tell me I'm wrong.
Just saying.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
No, I I absolutely agree.
I think, I mean, with all of us,it can be hard to reflect on
yourself and to notice whenyou're at a point where you need
some help.
You know, but the people thatare closest to us do see that.
I think, you know, especiallywith our first responders, the
culture is that they're thehelpers.
(16:46):
They're the ones that are takingcare of everybody else.
And if there's a crack in that,it can be perceived to them at
that moment as a sign ofweakness, or, you know, once the
cracks start forming, people getreally scared that they're just
going to completely fall apartand not be able to pull it back
together and do their job andtake care of their family and do
(17:06):
all the things.
So I think that wall comes up asa way for people to really
protect themselves, but youcan't hide that from the people
that are closest to you.
And sometimes I think the harderpeople try and hide it, the more
a family becomes concerned andstarts to see that there's some
things going on, you know, thatmight be an issue.
You know, I think with substanceuse, mental health, they're in
(17:29):
the same boat, in the samerealm, but can be very different
too.
You know, I think especiallywhen it comes to substance use,
people seem to have a little biteasier of a time sometimes,
admitting, you know, yeah, mydrinking's gotten a little out
of control.
Um, you know, I think that canbe sometimes an easier
(17:50):
conversation to have than youseem to be losing a little bit
of touch with reality on themental health side, or hey, you
seem like you're really downdepressed.
Are you thinking of hurtingyourself?
Like those kinds ofconversations can be more
challenging in my experience tohave.
SPEAKER_03 (18:08):
Well, I think it's also kind of like more
acceptable for them to have asubstance abuse problem.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
100%.
SPEAKER_03 (18:14):
You know, oh, I'm and again, if I'm breaking a
wall here, oh, I'm just a drunk,or I'm just popping pills, or
versus you know what?
I think I have PTSD from the 800events I've seen, that's not
gonna fly.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:27):
Because the, you know, like if you have a
substance abuse, you don't loseyour weapon.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:32):
But if you have a mental health issue, the first
thought is, are they gonna takemy weapon away?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Yep.
Yep.
And that's often, you know,within the first five questions
that I'm I'm getting from peopleis, you know, am I gonna lose,
am I gonna lose my job?
You know, are you gonna kidnapme away and I'm not gonna have
control over this situation?
You know, those are the bigconcerns.
Legitimately so.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
Oh, and and and it's not like it comes from nowhere,
because you know, like again, wewe we'll we'll get into work
before, but before, like Iremember this is not ancient
history.
I've been only here for 27 yearsor so.
As soon as there was a policeofficer that had some sort of
like just struggling, and andthis is old school, like I said,
(19:19):
it's about 20 something yearsago.
But the chief right away calledto get his gun, his badge, sit,
you're an admin leave.
And like he he like again, I wasa young kid, so I couldn't
really say, but in my hand, I'mlike, he just said that he had a
tough time.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we punishing him forbeing truthful?
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
Happens too often.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Yeah, it does.
And I think that that is why,you know, across all first
responders, law enforcement,fire, EMS, everybody.
There's that hesitancy to to askfor help.
I know recently I just had afriend of mine who's a
firefighter, sent me a text,hey, do you know anyone?
(20:03):
I think I should talk tosomebody.
And for me, I was like, are youokay?
Like, do I need to come to yourhouse?
Like, this is like huge redflags, because just for them to
say that was huge.
You know, for them to get to thepoint to reach out to me and
say, Hey, I think I might needto talk to somebody.
(20:24):
That's like, if it had been acivilian, they'd probably
already be in a hospitalsomewhere, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
Truly.
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Yeah, and I think that that's you know, that's
where the the fear is too incalling someone are they gonna
section me, or they're gonnaYeah, you know, and you see that
all the time, and it's sadbecause we we really have a
we've created an environmentwhere we're letting these
individuals get really bad.
(20:52):
And, you know, and there's somany things.
I mean, I'm gonna get off my I'mgonna get on my hor my high
horse here for a few seconds,but you know, there's wellness
visits, there's abilities to getsome support.
You don't need to wait till youneed therapy.
One of the thoughts I regularlyshare with my chiefs and
everyone else when I talk aboutthese programs that we they
(21:14):
have, you can make it acutestress disorder, which means it
goes away six months, and it'snot like it's completely gone
always there, but it's notovertaking their life.
Or you make it PTSD and then thetreatment's a little more
complex, takes a little longer,and will cause other issues in
the future.
I I like the acute stressdisorder diagnosis personally.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I mean, we're forced bynature of the work to put these
labels on things and you know,say this is this and this is
that.
But I think there are so manyopportunities, you know, for
people to get the help that theyneed without, you know, having
this lifelong label attached andthis lifelong stigma attached
(21:56):
and and losing their firearmsand losing their job and losing
all These things, you know,there are some pretty low
barrier entry points for peopleto reach out and get help.
There's groups, there'sone-on-one, you know, there's
peers, there's so many things.
But it's just helping people toget over that initial internal
(22:17):
barrier, I think is the hardestpart.
SPEAKER_03 (22:19):
And I think that that's a good point.
When you talk about the internalbarrier, I think that that's the
biggest problem, in my opinion.
Sorry.
When we when we talk about thoseinternal barriers, like what do
you like, what do we suggest tofamily members?
We talked a little bit of thefamily earlier.
Do we tell the family confrontit?
(22:40):
Do we tell the family deal withit?
Do we tell them call me moreoften?
I mean, how do we deal withthat?
Because I think family memberswant to help, but I think
sometimes they feel, no punintended, shackled.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there is a level ofhelplessness to it for anybody
that has a loved one that, youknow, struggling with substance
use, mental health, any of theseissues.
You know, and I think sometimeswe think if we could just hold
them down and force them intotreatment, then it would make
everything go away.
But we unfortunately know thatthat's not really true either.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
You know, so I think it is just kind of staying in
frequent contact with people.
I'll reach out.
If I have somebody that, youknow, calls and says, you know,
I really want my husband to getsome help.
He's not willing.
What do I do?
You know, there's ways to kindof introduce the concept.
I can be the person to introducethe concept.
Hey, I was just talking to thislady, you know, she has some
(23:36):
programs.
What do you think?
You know, sometimes bringing inthat third party, you know,
whether it's a person, whetherit's a resource, looking
something up, you know, theinternet has a wealth of
everything nowadays, you know,bringing those resources to the
individual and saying, like,hey, this looks kind of
familiar.
What do you think?
But I mean, at the end of theday, people aren't gonna get
(23:59):
help until they're ready.
Right.
Or something horrible happens.
SPEAKER_03 (24:03):
So And I think that you're absolutely right.
They won't get the help untilsomething bad happens or the
proverbial poop hits the fan.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we see in our programnow, I think a lot of times I
work, you know, with bothcivilians and first responders.
I think on an average basis, bythe time a first responder is
reaching out to get help, theacuity level and just everything
going on is so much deeper thanwhat we see on the civilian
(24:35):
side.
I think with the civilian side,people find themselves accessing
care one way or another.
It could even be through like avisit with their primary care
doctor.
Right.
You know, all these differentways that people can kind of
happen across some treatment.
Whereas with our first responderpopulation, I think they just
wait and wait and wait and theycarry that with them for so much
(24:58):
longer than they need to, youknow.
SPEAKER_03 (25:00):
I agree wholeheartedly.
And I think that the reason whyI wanted to put this on the
podcast is you're right.
It's, you know, there'ssometimes they get too far, and
that makes it even harder whenyou go to the treatment center.
Which you know, by the way,that's why people get to have
the recommendation of stayinglonger.
And I tell people that what thisis doing, I'm saying this on a
(25:20):
podcast for two reasons.
Number one, reach out for helpbefore like it gets bad.
Don't wait, wait till everythingbreaks and then say, okay, I
need help.
Number two, I I think that waswhat I wanted to do with this
part too, and I appreciate youkind of like letting me let it,
you're talking, but I also letme do this is I want first
responders who are listening tothis right now.
(25:42):
I want them to realize that ifthey're hurting, their family's
hurting too.
They may not be saying it, butthey see it and they hear it.
So that's why I wanted tomention that because I'm sure
you saw it when your family andyou've seen it in other
families.
It's one of those things thatthey know, so don't pretend they
don't and just be honest withit.
So that's why I want to talkabout that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it is just so important.
You know, people oftentimes whenthey're hurting, when they're
struggling, they get in thissilo of this only affects me.
But it's just not true.
You know, everybody has somebodysomewhere.
And, you know, the connection,even just with their job.
They want to be, you know,successful in their role and,
(26:23):
you know, go out and keep thecommunity safe, supported,
healthy, happy, all thosethings.
And you can't do that whenyou're not functioning like you
should be functioning.
You know, you can't.
SPEAKER_03 (26:35):
Well, you can have your cape Wonder Woman or
Superman, but it doesn't protectyou from the mental health and
psychological pressure that thatcreates.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
So you want to stick around for another half hour?
Because I think we have a lotmore to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Absolutely.
I'd love to.
SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
All right, perfect.
I just want to end this part andplease join us for part two with
Nikki Mason right after this.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(27:22):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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