July 8, 2026 • 28 mins
If peer support is supposed to be a safe place, why do so many first responders avoid it because they’re afraid their story will end up in the station, the briefing room, or the chief’s office? Stephanie Conn get blunt about the real problem behind “peer support doesn’t work” and it’s usually not the idea, it’s trust, confidentiality, and what happens when one person treats private conversations like gossip.
We walk through what strong peer support programs do differently: clear boundaries, transparent language about the narrow exceptions to confidentiality, and the courage to name the elephant in the room when a team’s reputation has been damaged. We also dig into something that doesn’t get said enough in police, fire, EMS, and dispatch culture: sometimes the healthiest move for a peer supporter is to hit pause. Stepping back because your capacity is shot isn’t weakness, it’s integrity, and pretending you’re fine while telling others to “take care of yourself” is the fastest way to lose credibility.
From there, we shift into resilience that actually fits first responder life. We talk about writing and teaching in plain language, translating research into tools people will use on shift, and why understanding the “why” behind strategies matters. Nutrition, stress hormones, sleep, and the messy reality of progress all come up, including the reminder that growth looks more like a squiggly line than a straight climb. We also preview a new peer support book and where to find it, plus a simple question we think every guest should answer: What is your why?
If this helped you think differently about peer support and first responder mental health, subscribe, share the episode with a coworker, and leave a review so more people can find it.
You can find everything about Stephanie, including her books at her website at https://firstresponderpsychology.com
Her LinkedIn account is https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-stephanie-conn/
DeemedFit: First Responder OwnedWe are a first responder owned company looking to get first responders in the best mental shape.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve B.
Holmes.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their team.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
And just by magic, we're back and we're wearing the
same clothes.
It's always the same joke Imake, but hey, I'll get a new
one soon, I'm pretty sure.
I want to talk more about puresupport because what you made as
points is having, you know, agood clinical support system,
having the right person and theright team in place.
And I know we got to walk somelines.
I'll not, I don't have to walk aline.
(00:50):
I'm I'm a I'm a civilian.
I've never worked in the field,but I've been there long enough.
I've been embedded in teams.
One of the biggest complaintsthat I hear from other people is
there's some of the peer supportpeople get to, you know, we
already have problems withpeople gossiping.
And now you go see the peersupport person, and lo and
behold, now the your captain,your dep, your your chief all
(01:10):
know that you have having aproblem with XYZ.
I think that that's the otherthing that I wanted to mention.
I know that's not what you weresaying.
This is what Steve is saying,and I'm an individual.
How do we address that?
Because there's a lot of teamsthat are like they want to be
able to go to their peer supportperson or persons or people, but
then sometimes because they'reembedded with telling the chief
(01:33):
or whoever what's going on, howdo we deal with that?
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Yeah, it it's there's actually a quote that's
in my peer support book that'scoming out that says, sometimes
we don't want to talk to aperson because we don't know
them.
Sometimes we don't want to talkto a person because we do.
And so it really does highlightthat if we know a person is not,
is, is not gonna keep theirmouth shut, like the reputation
(02:01):
of one is the reputation of all,right?
And that's whether it's peersupporters and oftentimes
clinicians, and and that's notright.
It's just it's just how it is.
And so, you know, I haveactually worked, and I'm gonna
be really careful here.
I've worked with agencies wherewe've scrapped an entire team
and said we we go back over andwe we we start the the uh
(02:24):
nomination process and thescreening and the application
and screening process all overagain because we want the best
people in there.
And then in terms of damagecontrol, and I've had this
conversation with peercoordinators and the supervisors
that kind of are doing kind ofprogram management, not the peer
team per se, but programmanagement.
(02:44):
Like, so what how do we evenrecover from that?
And I said, we have to do whatthey do in hostage negotiations
is we have to do an accusationaudit, which is to say, we're
going to name, we know that theconfidentiality of our people
has been in in question, and weare aware of what you are aware
(03:05):
of, right?
And we take that seriously, andwe are taking great measures to
ensure this is done well.
And so that's what we do.
I mean, that's that's what youdo, is you actually have to
name, and just like if someonecomes to me as a clinician and
they've had a clinician prior tome fall asleep on him or cry in
(03:26):
the session or do their dumbshit that they tend to do, um, I
have to typically pay for thesins of the people that came
before me, unless they come tome through like a refer, like a
known referral or something likethat, and they know me, is I
just go, you can say what youneed to say, and it stays here,
unless these, you know, verynarrow things.
(03:48):
And I'm not gonna cry or fallasleep on you.
So peer supporters may have toactually do that same kind of
thing, is just like be verytransparent and just say there
are, you know, these fourexceptions, you know, depending
on your state.
There are these four exceptions,and you know, but I also am
aware that others did not adhereto that before.
(04:10):
And I'm not here to, you know,talk smack about somebody else,
but just to know, just toacknowledge, I know what your or
I can imagine what your concernsare.
And it concerns me too.
It's like saying, you know, nothing only person that hates a
bad cop or no one hates a badcop more than a good cop.
No one hates a peer supporterthat runs their mouth any more
(04:30):
than a peer supporter that takesthe the role seriously.
And even saying that right iscan be incredibly important.
And then again, weeding out andyou know, and the
confidentiality piece is is ispart of it.
The other part of it is what ifthe peer supporter is nominated,
(04:51):
screened, trained, dialed in,goes through two or three of
their own personal orprofessional traumas, or gets
into some stage in life becausethey've changed assignments or
have a health issue or familything or whatever.
They need to have the emotionalmaturity and an insight to be
able to say, you know what?
(05:11):
Peer support was great for me atone point.
It's not great for me now, whichmeans it's not gonna be great
for the people I'm peersupporting.
I'm gonna hit the pause button.
I care enough about how much Ishow up in this role.
I'm gonna hit the pause button.
When I get this thing kind of inmy in my rear view mirror, I'd
like to hit the play button andcome back on.
And agencies and teams shouldallow for that.
(05:33):
And if the person doesn'tself-identify, hey, it's time to
hit the pause button.
Then the the team lead orcoordinator needs to be able to
say, Hey, Bob, you haven't madeit to any of the last call-outs.
It seems like you've missed acertain percentage of the
training.
So this doesn't seem like it'sthe right time for you to be on
the team again.
(05:54):
No, no hard feelings.
Your assignment changed, or yourSwift changed, to your family
situation changed.
How do you feel about pausing orjust leaving the tank team for
now until the situation changesand you can return and give it
the effort that I know you'recommitted to, like mentally
committed to, maybe not likeopportunity committed to.
(06:15):
And I think that's how we keepthat, or one of the ways we keep
that team healthy.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?
I like to throw a little grenadeon here.
Oh, fire police.
So one of the things that I'veobserved, and correct me if I'm
wrong, saying that I have to puta pause on any role in the fire
police corrections dispatch is asign of weakness.
(06:42):
I if for those of you on video,you'll see me do the quotes
here, but it's can be perceivedas a sign of weakness.
Yeah.
What do you say to someone whomight say, Oh, I don't want to
look like a pussy?
I'm sorry for the language if itoffended anyone, but that's what
the language would be.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's actually, yeah, andI take that one all I I take I
tackle that question all thetime.
I think it's a sign of ignoranceto not recognize your capacity.
I think it's a sign of bothintelligence and integrity and
(07:20):
purpose.
And I think it actually callsfor a lot of strength to say I
gotta prioritize something elseright now.
Right.
I I think it says speaks volumesfor people in a very positive
way to do that.
And I think if someone looked atat a peer and uh you know on the
(07:41):
peer team and and said, well,that peer team member is weak
because they hit pause or theystepped out of the team, they
should actually probably gobecause they're not embodying
what anything that they'retrying to preach, if you will.
I put quotes on mine to somebodyelse, right?
So the hypocrisy of a peer teammember saying, hey, you need to,
(08:06):
if you need to take off time foryourself, take off time for
yourself.
If you need to take a pause forthis or that, do this and that
and the other, but for them notto do it for themselves is
there's no other word that sumsit up better than hypocrisy.
And nobody aspires to be ahypocrite, which is why I said
earlier, I'm, you know, I'mperfect by no means, but I try
(08:28):
to truly do what I would suggestsomeone else do so that I'm not
hypocritical.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
It's an integrity issue.
I think that to me, that'sexactly what we need to do.
Sometimes we need to be able toput pause in our own stuff and
say, wait a minute, I need tostop.
I think it happens to merecently.
I've had a few hospital uh staysand scares for my own health.
So I have to put a pause onseeing as many clients as I was.
(08:58):
And I was afraid a little bit,I'll be honest with you, about
people's reaction.
Truthfully, and again, 70 to 80percent of my clients are first
responders in some way, shape,or form.
All of them said pretty much thesame thing.
Steve, I need you to be alive,so don't worry about this.
Go take care of you because I'mnot telling my story again.
(09:19):
I don't want to repeat my story.
You know my story.
So I think that giving thatmessage to people is so key
about the hypocrisy.
If you're telling people takecare of you, take care of you,
and you're like not taking careof yourself, or worse, you turn
your substances, which is notwhat happened to me, it's just
my health kind of likecollapsed.
I think it's so important.
So I really like what you say,and I think that you're right.
(09:42):
I think that hypocrisy sometimesis hard for people to hear, but
that's the truth.
The other thing I will say is myI do a group ever twice a week.
I think that what I my groupthat I run, one of the things I
say is there are two rules in mygroup.
What says in my group stays inmy group.
Do not repeat it to anyone else.
(10:03):
If I hear of it, I will cut you.
No questions, no explanation, Idon't give a fuck.
That second rule is do notapologize.
Because one of the other thingsthat I find, and correct me if
I'm wrong, is that sometimesyou'll go to a peer or a
therapist, oh, I'm sorry tobother you with these things.
Is that the fucking point of it?
And want them to talk about itis key.
(10:25):
So I tell people you can'tapologize.
And it's funny because the groupmembers now that I have have a
good number.
As soon as someone says I'msorry, that down their throat,
stop apologizing to yell atthem.
And I'm it's kind of funny, butit really helps them think about
it differently.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Uh yeah.
Let's shift gears a little bitagain.
I want to talk about your bookbecause, again, like I said, I
really highly recommend it.
This is the one I have.
This is the second edition.
I don't want to cover the mic.
Increasing resilience in policeand emergency personnel.
I really recommend people go andgrab it, therapists and first
responders.
(11:01):
I think that that's so importantfor people that'll do.
But maybe we start with thatone.
And I would like to talk moreabout your peer support book
too, because I think that'll begreat.
But if again, I know it's goingto sound sales pitchy, but at
the end of the day, it's kind ofwhat I wanted people to
understand.
So if I said to you, why shouldI get this book?
I mean, I'm in the East Coast.
What would someone from Arizona,Texas really understand about
(11:25):
the shit I do?
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
Yeah.
Well, this book is like anythingI write, is I'm always standing
on the shoulders of giants.
So while I have my ownexperience, I'm also have the
experience that comes from inanonymous ways or aggregate ways
from first responders.
I conducted the research inthree different studies, and
(11:49):
they were from people from allover the place.
And in the studies, the resultsof those studies are in there.
And then the part of standing onthe shoulders of the giants is I
looked at what is what is theresearch out there nationally
mostly, but some internationalthat relates to resilience in
the first responder world, orcould apply that I could
(12:12):
translate to the first responderworld.
So some of these universalconcepts that I could say, how
do we, how do we fine-tune thisto this population?
Because, and I think you said itearlier, when there's
suggestions, you know, or maybeit was a different conversation,
there's suggestions to maintaina sleep schedule because the
(12:33):
sleep experts say that, or to todo this, or to do that, but the
re that's not feasible for afirst responder given shift work
and you know, all those otherkinds of things.
I'm taking some of thoserecommendations and saying, how
does this work with a firstresponder?
Right?
How does this work given therealities of shift work?
(12:53):
And so so why should they getit?
Because I have taken a lot ofthis information and wrote it in
such a way that it's it'sapproachable, right?
I I write like I talk.
There's profanity in there.
There's even a couple of timeswhen my editor said, Do you
(13:14):
really mean to say this?
And I was like, Yes, it'sjargon, leave it in there,
right?
Yes, that's that's what I reallymean to say.
And I while there's differencesin the way that we talk uh
geographically in certain terms,all I've ever gotten as far as
feedback goes is it resonatedwith me, right?
And that's across the the firstresponder disciplines.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was amazing, and I
really enjoyed wearing it.
Uh this episode is gonna besupported by Deemed Fit.
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activewear and a
leisure brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(14:03):
responders or nonprofits,they're named to uh Deemed Fit,
and I know they're talking tothem.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
mental health for firstresponders.
And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
the mental health support stuff,use the code RDA15.
That's right, R D A 15 to get15% off on any products that you
(14:27):
get.
Again, it's called RDA15.
Go to tfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D,F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at
checkout test.
Now, right back to the episode.
I would also say that itresonates with me.
And I'm on the skulls.
I know I'm a civilian, but Iknow it resonated with some of
(14:47):
my guys because I definitely usesome of the stuff you talk
about.
One of the things that I alsolike is how you build every
chapter.
And I what I think that peopleneed to understand, maybe you
can explain more of your thoughtprocess.
I kind of know what you're gonnasay, but I'd like to hear it
from you.
But you know, like you write itup about what you're talking
about, then you talk aboutfamily members and tool for your
duty bag.
(15:08):
And I think that that's just agreat structure for every
chapter.
And maybe you can thought tellthem more about your thought
process behind that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Well, I think there are times, and I've had lots of
people say this to me, they'relike, I want the takeaway.
I want to like, what's thetools, right?
I can, you know, it to me it'sit's there's it's really kind of
a three-part thing.
What are the signs that youmight have something going on or
something might be presentingand a peer and your family
(15:37):
member, whatever the, you know,your subordinators, that kind of
stuff.
What is the science?
And when I say science, I meanthe plain language, none of the
psychobabble bullshit, but justlike why.
And the reason why I give thescience is I want people to
understand that most, if notevery single symptom, every
single sign, if you will, has asurvival mechanism, is a
(16:01):
survival adaptation, right?
So that's why I want people tounderstand the science.
And then the science also givesa rationale for what comes next,
which is the strategies.
And the strategies are okay, sonow we know what it looks like.
Now we know why it is that way,without all the stigma bullshit
that goes around the weaknessand you know, I'm tore up from
the floor up and whatever, whathave you, but rather really kind
(16:23):
of recognizing it as to why wewould have such a response to
something and then why we wouldwant to do something.
Because some of therecommendations, if you don't
understand, you know, because wewe get these tired
recommendations like eat well,right?
Have a balanced diet, and you'relike, and our our association
(16:43):
with that is that, oh, well,that's about our waistline or
aesthetics or our heart diseaseor something.
And and those things areimportant, or the heart disease
and waistline perhaps areimportant.
But really, if you understandthat nutrition has to, you know,
contributes to the gut biome,which contributes to
inflammation, which contributesto serotonin production, which
(17:06):
is our mood chemical.
So there's real tangible reasonswhy we would choose certain
foods that are gonna havemagnesium in them because
they're gonna help us sleep,they're gonna have more of a
calming effect, versus somethingelse that has MSG.
And I love MSG.
I heard it stands for make shitgood and I get that, but it's
(17:27):
also excitatory and it causes usto be more keyed up, right?
And so so the method to mymadness is can we understand
what we're looking at, why it'shappening in a
non-pathologizing, non, let'snot label, let's label first
responders as strong people, notweak, weak people.
(17:50):
And then what are we going to doabout it?
And the tools through your dutybelt is here's the gist of what
you need to get from those kindof three kind of overarching
themes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
And I've I've had the conversation.
I I know I think you mentionedin your book, that gut that's
bigger, sometimes it's not onlythe food, it's the cortisol
levels you have in your bodybecause of the work you do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
And I had someone have this kindof aha moment last week because
she's like, I don't get it.
I, you know, eating pretty good.
I'm trying to eat really well,but my stomach's just getting
bigger.
But I'm also talking to mydoctor about this and that and
the hormones and stress and notsleeping.
And and why would my stomach getbigger?
And I was like, foo is energyand energy is or is calorie and
(18:35):
calories is energy, but you'renot expending the energy and
like, so where is it gonna go?
Right.
And stress and you know, right,blood sugar goes up and you
start getting, yeah.
She's like, oh my God, that'swhy, that's why.
Oh, I just she just connectedthe dots for her.
And I was like, okay, good.
But again, even in the book,it's not to when I talk about
nutrition, that's just oneexample.
(18:55):
There's many others.
But again, I think when peoplecan understand some of the whys
of around some of therecommendations and find, hey,
gosh, if I just make a reallysmall change, I don't have to
overhaul everything.
But if I can make a smallchange, incrementally I'm going
to get a little closer to whereI want to be.
So that, like if I mean, justfor life, for quality of life.
(19:18):
But then if you have a criticalincident, you're standing on
more solid ground uh to not beknocked over by it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
And I think that the other part too, when you talk
about growth, and let me knowwhat you think.
But I I I always quote Mr.
Bessel Vandercock, who says,growth is not like this, it's
not exponential, it looks weird,and it's these wiggly lines, and
it goes really until you get towhere you want, and then there's
gonna plateau, and sometimesyou're gonna go up and sometimes
gonna go down.
(19:46):
But I I think that that's theother part too that I feel
people don't quite understandabout you know therapy or
whatever you decide to do.
Oh, yeah, you're gonna be betterafter one session, you should be
done after that.
Of course not.
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
Yeah, I think it's page two.
Here's my here's what progresslooks like, right?
It's this horrible squigglyline.
So it was you too place, right?
Yeah.
So I yeah, and that was Iactually that's the there it is,
right?
So I mean, that's the thing isthat I tell people, you know,
oftentimes if you've gotten intoa habit of avoiding stuff, then
(20:20):
yeah, you might get some reliefbecause you you're avoiding
something, but that relief istemporary.
And then when you go to actuallyaddress something, just like if
I went to address a knee injury,I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna
actually start physical therapyon the knee, knee injury, then
I'm it's gonna, there's gonna besome inflammation and swelling
the first few physical therapy.
I don't go, oh my gosh, I thinkthey're making it worse.
(20:42):
I say, oh, I have some stuffgoing on in there that I'm
needing to do some work on.
And that's what's interestingabout people going to to
counseling or having openconversations with peers, is it
sometimes lets them know thatknee is a little sore when you
get to to moving it and thatapproaching that conversation
about that thing you're tryingto avoid kind of makes us
(21:05):
psychologically sore for alittle bit until it doesn't.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
So I appreciate you.
And like I said, Bessel does itwell.
The body keeps the score.
If you ever want to read that,that's great.
I don't recommend it to everyonebecause it's a little heavy duty
to read, but it is absolutelyessential for therapists, if you
ask me.
How about we shift gears andtalk about the other book now?
The peer support, the one I'dlike to hear more about that.
(21:30):
And you said, like I I thinkpre-interview, we talked about
how that one came out of youalmost like came out right away.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, that was a a brain dump,but in a positive way, because
I, as I mentioned in my prior uhportion of the episode, I was a
peer supporter.
And then I went on to become aclinician that worked with peer
teams and was doing occupationalwellness stuff for another
agency.
And so, so I was always lookingat and Researching what, you
(22:02):
know, how are peer teamshelping?
How are they not helping?
What are the most effectiveones?
I got pulled into the peersupport guideline committee and
became an ICISF instructor yearsago and have been teaching peer
support, thinking about peersupport.
So when I'm, you know, and Italked to Dr.
Jack Digliani, who's, you know,a peer support expert in
Colorado, and he's done somestudies on some of the few
(22:25):
studies that we actually have onthe effectiveness of peer
support and some of therecommendations for starting and
maintaining them.
And so, but in looking outthere, I was like, man, there's
just so much more to explore.
And so many people will have somany questions.
And I'm always being askedquestions from peer teams and
from agencies.
And I'm just, it's almost aweekly, if not multiple times a
(22:46):
week, someone asking me how tostart a team or maintain a team
or how to restart one.
And just like the first book, Iwas like, man, I have something
to say.
And I instead of answering ithere and there and just kind of
putting it behind closed doorsin this agency or in that other
place, I'm just going to put itout there.
And so it took me, and it justlike the first book, still
(23:08):
standing on the shoulders ofgiants and reading, you know,
Dr.
Jack's work, Dr.
Jack Stigliani's work and otherpeople's work and research where
it is.
But then a lot of and a lot ofthe research on what they're
doing in different states, butit was it was coming out of me
just lightning fast because itwas just like the just a free
flow of ideas because I had beenthinking about it and writing
(23:29):
about it and reflecting andtraining on it for so many years
that it was just a matter oforganizing it to be usable, to
be a to be a real toolbox forteams, for agencies, for
clinicians.
Because a lot of the questionsactually come from clinicians,
right?
How do we how do we do this?
Right.
I'm on this being asked to be onthis team.
(23:52):
What are the best practicesaround this?
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
So and I think that that's what we need to sit on.
You know, we all sit on theshoulders of giants.
If you think that everyone thatdoes anything on their in their
own vacuum, I think isabsolutely absurd.
That's why, like I like I said,I did a presentation at the FOP.
It was well received, but it wasbased on some of the work you've
done.
And I can talk about otherpeople, but Kevin Gilmartin is
(24:17):
another guy that I really thinkhighly of, who gave me great
ideas.
We actually I did an interviewwith him a few months ago.
But I never know everything andI never will pretend.
And that humbleness of the greatpeople that I've met is exactly
that.
Once you're humble about notknowing everything, you actually
know more than you you think youdo.
So tell me, so the peer supportbook, is it out or is it gonna
(24:40):
be out, or can I go buy it rightnow?
Where can I get it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, it's um it's coming out, I think August 26th.
The publisher will surpriseeveryone and they'll they'll
launch it beforehand, then I'llfind out afterwards.
But I've been meeting all mydeadlines to get certain things
approved and you know,typesetting and whatnot.
So hopefully they'll get it outbefore that.
But you can pre-order it onAmazon right now.
(25:04):
The pre-order through thepublisher at Routledge will be,
I think, August 6th, but I thinkit's going to be available for
pre-order on August 26th onAmazon.
And then, as always, as anauthor, I get my allotment
usually a month before everybodyelse does.
And so anybody that ordersdirectly from me that's in the
(25:24):
continental US, contiguous US,then I'm able to take pre-orders
and send them to them.
And so, yeah, so all I have atthis point is the call is the
card that says um what it, yeah,it's just the QR code for
pre-order, and that just givesme the shorthand of what the
chapters are, how I ended uporganizing the content.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So what I'll do is uh in the show notes, I will be
putting it in on your yourauthor Amazon thing.
So that way when it shows up,it'll be right there.
So people can go and order it.
We'll put in your website, whichis first respondersychology.com.
And that way people canpre-order from you.
(26:07):
I know I will be I'll be in lineto get that.
Probably won't be able to get mysign one face to face, but
nonetheless, would love to seeyou again.
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsI wanted to start with all my
guests, and there's always aninteresting.
This has came up from anotherpodcast that someone I listened
to that's not related at all,the first responder stuff.
(26:28):
But I always thought it was a itwas a great thing, and I'm gonna
try to put it in my podcast.
I don't know who my next guestis.
I do have a list, but it's Ican't tell you off the top of my
head.
That's what I'm saying.
If there was one question Ishould ask about my guests, and
you don't know if they're lawenforcement, you don't know if
they're fire, you don't know ifthey're just therapists or
clinicians.
Yeah, what would what would bethe one question I think
(26:50):
everyone should you thinkeveryone should ask and be able
to answer?
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
What is your why?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
I like that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Right.
Yeah.
Because I think when we havethat why, then that drives
everything else.
And when we lose sight of thatwhy, that's when we get things
like compassion fatigue andwhatever role we're playing,
right?
Because we have lost sight ofour compassion satisfaction, why
we're doing what we're doing,what purpose it offers us.
(27:18):
And I mean, I tell that to otherclinicians and I train, I tell
that to peer supporters, toclients who are first
responders.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
Yeah.
Well, what I'm gonna do, I thinkthat the next one I have is a
again, uh, someone who works inthe law enforcement field.
So I'm gonna ask them thatquestion and I'm gonna ask the
next person to ask a question.
I think it's a fun thing to doin that way.
It's kind of a continuance ofstuff.
But from the bottom, IStephanie, you know, I really
enjoy your book.
This is not uh my audienceknows.
(27:49):
I don't tell people like I likethis because I just want to say
stuff I I did really enjoy.
I got it twice, obviously.
And I hope people go and get it.
And I really want to thank youfor your time.
And hopefully at one point intime we'll meet again at some
conferences and even come backon the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Yeah, sounds great.
I appreciate your time and yeah,hope to come back.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
I I you you'll you will always be invited.
So thank you.
And thank you to my audience,and come back for the next
episode.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(28:43):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve B.
Holmes.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their team.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
And just by magic, we're back and we're wearing the
same clothes.
It's always the same joke Imake, but hey, I'll get a new
one soon, I'm pretty sure.
I want to talk more about puresupport because what you made as
points is having, you know, agood clinical support system,
having the right person and theright team in place.
And I know we got to walk somelines.
I'll not, I don't have to walk aline.
(00:50):
I'm I'm a I'm a civilian.
I've never worked in the field,but I've been there long enough.
I've been embedded in teams.
One of the biggest complaintsthat I hear from other people is
there's some of the peer supportpeople get to, you know, we
already have problems withpeople gossiping.
And now you go see the peersupport person, and lo and
behold, now the your captain,your dep, your your chief all
(01:10):
know that you have having aproblem with XYZ.
I think that that's the otherthing that I wanted to mention.
I know that's not what you weresaying.
This is what Steve is saying,and I'm an individual.
How do we address that?
Because there's a lot of teamsthat are like they want to be
able to go to their peer supportperson or persons or people, but
then sometimes because they'reembedded with telling the chief
(01:33):
or whoever what's going on, howdo we deal with that?
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Yeah, it it's there's actually a quote that's
in my peer support book that'scoming out that says, sometimes
we don't want to talk to aperson because we don't know
them.
Sometimes we don't want to talkto a person because we do.
And so it really does highlightthat if we know a person is not,
is, is not gonna keep theirmouth shut, like the reputation
(02:01):
of one is the reputation of all,right?
And that's whether it's peersupporters and oftentimes
clinicians, and and that's notright.
It's just it's just how it is.
And so, you know, I haveactually worked, and I'm gonna
be really careful here.
I've worked with agencies wherewe've scrapped an entire team
and said we we go back over andwe we we start the the uh
(02:24):
nomination process and thescreening and the application
and screening process all overagain because we want the best
people in there.
And then in terms of damagecontrol, and I've had this
conversation with peercoordinators and the supervisors
that kind of are doing kind ofprogram management, not the peer
team per se, but programmanagement.
(02:44):
Like, so what how do we evenrecover from that?
And I said, we have to do whatthey do in hostage negotiations
is we have to do an accusationaudit, which is to say, we're
going to name, we know that theconfidentiality of our people
has been in in question, and weare aware of what you are aware
(03:05):
of, right?
And we take that seriously, andwe are taking great measures to
ensure this is done well.
And so that's what we do.
I mean, that's that's what youdo, is you actually have to
name, and just like if someonecomes to me as a clinician and
they've had a clinician prior tome fall asleep on him or cry in
(03:26):
the session or do their dumbshit that they tend to do, um, I
have to typically pay for thesins of the people that came
before me, unless they come tome through like a refer, like a
known referral or something likethat, and they know me, is I
just go, you can say what youneed to say, and it stays here,
unless these, you know, verynarrow things.
(03:48):
And I'm not gonna cry or fallasleep on you.
So peer supporters may have toactually do that same kind of
thing, is just like be verytransparent and just say there
are, you know, these fourexceptions, you know, depending
on your state.
There are these four exceptions,and you know, but I also am
aware that others did not adhereto that before.
(04:10):
And I'm not here to, you know,talk smack about somebody else,
but just to know, just toacknowledge, I know what your or
I can imagine what your concernsare.
And it concerns me too.
It's like saying, you know, nothing only person that hates a
bad cop or no one hates a badcop more than a good cop.
No one hates a peer supporterthat runs their mouth any more
(04:30):
than a peer supporter that takesthe the role seriously.
And even saying that right iscan be incredibly important.
And then again, weeding out andyou know, and the
confidentiality piece is is ispart of it.
The other part of it is what ifthe peer supporter is nominated,
(04:51):
screened, trained, dialed in,goes through two or three of
their own personal orprofessional traumas, or gets
into some stage in life becausethey've changed assignments or
have a health issue or familything or whatever.
They need to have the emotionalmaturity and an insight to be
able to say, you know what?
(05:11):
Peer support was great for me atone point.
It's not great for me now, whichmeans it's not gonna be great
for the people I'm peersupporting.
I'm gonna hit the pause button.
I care enough about how much Ishow up in this role.
I'm gonna hit the pause button.
When I get this thing kind of inmy in my rear view mirror, I'd
like to hit the play button andcome back on.
And agencies and teams shouldallow for that.
(05:33):
And if the person doesn'tself-identify, hey, it's time to
hit the pause button.
Then the the team lead orcoordinator needs to be able to
say, Hey, Bob, you haven't madeit to any of the last call-outs.
It seems like you've missed acertain percentage of the
training.
So this doesn't seem like it'sthe right time for you to be on
the team again.
(05:54):
No, no hard feelings.
Your assignment changed, or yourSwift changed, to your family
situation changed.
How do you feel about pausing orjust leaving the tank team for
now until the situation changesand you can return and give it
the effort that I know you'recommitted to, like mentally
committed to, maybe not likeopportunity committed to.
(06:15):
And I think that's how we keepthat, or one of the ways we keep
that team healthy.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?
I like to throw a little grenadeon here.
Oh, fire police.
So one of the things that I'veobserved, and correct me if I'm
wrong, saying that I have to puta pause on any role in the fire
police corrections dispatch is asign of weakness.
(06:42):
I if for those of you on video,you'll see me do the quotes
here, but it's can be perceivedas a sign of weakness.
Yeah.
What do you say to someone whomight say, Oh, I don't want to
look like a pussy?
I'm sorry for the language if itoffended anyone, but that's what
the language would be.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's actually, yeah, andI take that one all I I take I
tackle that question all thetime.
I think it's a sign of ignoranceto not recognize your capacity.
I think it's a sign of bothintelligence and integrity and
(07:20):
purpose.
And I think it actually callsfor a lot of strength to say I
gotta prioritize something elseright now.
Right.
I I think it says speaks volumesfor people in a very positive
way to do that.
And I think if someone looked atat a peer and uh you know on the
(07:41):
peer team and and said, well,that peer team member is weak
because they hit pause or theystepped out of the team, they
should actually probably gobecause they're not embodying
what anything that they'retrying to preach, if you will.
I put quotes on mine to somebodyelse, right?
So the hypocrisy of a peer teammember saying, hey, you need to,
(08:06):
if you need to take off time foryourself, take off time for
yourself.
If you need to take a pause forthis or that, do this and that
and the other, but for them notto do it for themselves is
there's no other word that sumsit up better than hypocrisy.
And nobody aspires to be ahypocrite, which is why I said
earlier, I'm, you know, I'mperfect by no means, but I try
(08:28):
to truly do what I would suggestsomeone else do so that I'm not
hypocritical.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
It's an integrity issue.
I think that to me, that'sexactly what we need to do.
Sometimes we need to be able toput pause in our own stuff and
say, wait a minute, I need tostop.
I think it happens to merecently.
I've had a few hospital uh staysand scares for my own health.
So I have to put a pause onseeing as many clients as I was.
(08:58):
And I was afraid a little bit,I'll be honest with you, about
people's reaction.
Truthfully, and again, 70 to 80percent of my clients are first
responders in some way, shape,or form.
All of them said pretty much thesame thing.
Steve, I need you to be alive,so don't worry about this.
Go take care of you because I'mnot telling my story again.
(09:19):
I don't want to repeat my story.
You know my story.
So I think that giving thatmessage to people is so key
about the hypocrisy.
If you're telling people takecare of you, take care of you,
and you're like not taking careof yourself, or worse, you turn
your substances, which is notwhat happened to me, it's just
my health kind of likecollapsed.
I think it's so important.
So I really like what you say,and I think that you're right.
(09:42):
I think that hypocrisy sometimesis hard for people to hear, but
that's the truth.
The other thing I will say is myI do a group ever twice a week.
I think that what I my groupthat I run, one of the things I
say is there are two rules in mygroup.
What says in my group stays inmy group.
Do not repeat it to anyone else.
(10:03):
If I hear of it, I will cut you.
No questions, no explanation, Idon't give a fuck.
That second rule is do notapologize.
Because one of the other thingsthat I find, and correct me if
I'm wrong, is that sometimesyou'll go to a peer or a
therapist, oh, I'm sorry tobother you with these things.
Is that the fucking point of it?
And want them to talk about itis key.
(10:25):
So I tell people you can'tapologize.
And it's funny because the groupmembers now that I have have a
good number.
As soon as someone says I'msorry, that down their throat,
stop apologizing to yell atthem.
And I'm it's kind of funny, butit really helps them think about
it differently.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Uh yeah.
Let's shift gears a little bitagain.
I want to talk about your bookbecause, again, like I said, I
really highly recommend it.
This is the one I have.
This is the second edition.
I don't want to cover the mic.
Increasing resilience in policeand emergency personnel.
I really recommend people go andgrab it, therapists and first
responders.
(11:01):
I think that that's so importantfor people that'll do.
But maybe we start with thatone.
And I would like to talk moreabout your peer support book
too, because I think that'll begreat.
But if again, I know it's goingto sound sales pitchy, but at
the end of the day, it's kind ofwhat I wanted people to
understand.
So if I said to you, why shouldI get this book?
I mean, I'm in the East Coast.
What would someone from Arizona,Texas really understand about
(11:25):
the shit I do?
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
Yeah.
Well, this book is like anythingI write, is I'm always standing
on the shoulders of giants.
So while I have my ownexperience, I'm also have the
experience that comes from inanonymous ways or aggregate ways
from first responders.
I conducted the research inthree different studies, and
(11:49):
they were from people from allover the place.
And in the studies, the resultsof those studies are in there.
And then the part of standing onthe shoulders of the giants is I
looked at what is what is theresearch out there nationally
mostly, but some internationalthat relates to resilience in
the first responder world, orcould apply that I could
(12:12):
translate to the first responderworld.
So some of these universalconcepts that I could say, how
do we, how do we fine-tune thisto this population?
Because, and I think you said itearlier, when there's
suggestions, you know, or maybeit was a different conversation,
there's suggestions to maintaina sleep schedule because the
(12:33):
sleep experts say that, or to todo this, or to do that, but the
re that's not feasible for afirst responder given shift work
and you know, all those otherkinds of things.
I'm taking some of thoserecommendations and saying, how
does this work with a firstresponder?
Right?
How does this work given therealities of shift work?
(12:53):
And so so why should they getit?
Because I have taken a lot ofthis information and wrote it in
such a way that it's it'sapproachable, right?
I I write like I talk.
There's profanity in there.
There's even a couple of timeswhen my editor said, Do you
(13:14):
really mean to say this?
And I was like, Yes, it'sjargon, leave it in there,
right?
Yes, that's that's what I reallymean to say.
And I while there's differencesin the way that we talk uh
geographically in certain terms,all I've ever gotten as far as
feedback goes is it resonatedwith me, right?
And that's across the the firstresponder disciplines.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
Just a quick break, guys.
I'm gonna talk about a newproduct that I really like.
I actually bought one of theirhoodies, it was amazing, and I
really enjoyed wearing it.
Uh this episode is gonna besupported by Deemed Fit.
Deemed Fit is a firstresponder-owned activewear and a
leisure brand.
And one thing that I genuinelylike about them is that they
support different causes.
I actually gave a few people Iknow who work with first
(14:03):
responders or nonprofits,they're named to uh Deemed Fit,
and I know they're talking tothem.
They do a lot of initiatives andcollections that are based on
mental health for firstresponders.
And if you go there right nowand you buy anything, including
the mental health support stuff,use the code RDA15.
That's right, R D A 15 to get15% off on any products that you
(14:27):
get.
Again, it's called RDA15.
Go to tfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D,F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at
checkout test.
Now, right back to the episode.
I would also say that itresonates with me.
And I'm on the skulls.
I know I'm a civilian, but Iknow it resonated with some of
(14:47):
my guys because I definitely usesome of the stuff you talk
about.
One of the things that I alsolike is how you build every
chapter.
And I what I think that peopleneed to understand, maybe you
can explain more of your thoughtprocess.
I kind of know what you're gonnasay, but I'd like to hear it
from you.
But you know, like you write itup about what you're talking
about, then you talk aboutfamily members and tool for your
duty bag.
(15:08):
And I think that that's just agreat structure for every
chapter.
And maybe you can thought tellthem more about your thought
process behind that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Well, I think there are times, and I've had lots of
people say this to me, they'relike, I want the takeaway.
I want to like, what's thetools, right?
I can, you know, it to me it'sit's there's it's really kind of
a three-part thing.
What are the signs that youmight have something going on or
something might be presentingand a peer and your family
(15:37):
member, whatever the, you know,your subordinators, that kind of
stuff.
What is the science?
And when I say science, I meanthe plain language, none of the
psychobabble bullshit, but justlike why.
And the reason why I give thescience is I want people to
understand that most, if notevery single symptom, every
single sign, if you will, has asurvival mechanism, is a
(16:01):
survival adaptation, right?
So that's why I want people tounderstand the science.
And then the science also givesa rationale for what comes next,
which is the strategies.
And the strategies are okay, sonow we know what it looks like.
Now we know why it is that way,without all the stigma bullshit
that goes around the weaknessand you know, I'm tore up from
the floor up and whatever, whathave you, but rather really kind
(16:23):
of recognizing it as to why wewould have such a response to
something and then why we wouldwant to do something.
Because some of therecommendations, if you don't
understand, you know, because wewe get these tired
recommendations like eat well,right?
Have a balanced diet, and you'relike, and our our association
(16:43):
with that is that, oh, well,that's about our waistline or
aesthetics or our heart diseaseor something.
And and those things areimportant, or the heart disease
and waistline perhaps areimportant.
But really, if you understandthat nutrition has to, you know,
contributes to the gut biome,which contributes to
inflammation, which contributesto serotonin production, which
(17:06):
is our mood chemical.
So there's real tangible reasonswhy we would choose certain
foods that are gonna havemagnesium in them because
they're gonna help us sleep,they're gonna have more of a
calming effect, versus somethingelse that has MSG.
And I love MSG.
I heard it stands for make shitgood and I get that, but it's
(17:27):
also excitatory and it causes usto be more keyed up, right?
And so so the method to mymadness is can we understand
what we're looking at, why it'shappening in a
non-pathologizing, non, let'snot label, let's label first
responders as strong people, notweak, weak people.
(17:50):
And then what are we going to doabout it?
And the tools through your dutybelt is here's the gist of what
you need to get from those kindof three kind of overarching
themes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
And I've I've had the conversation.
I I know I think you mentionedin your book, that gut that's
bigger, sometimes it's not onlythe food, it's the cortisol
levels you have in your bodybecause of the work you do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
And I had someone have this kindof aha moment last week because
she's like, I don't get it.
I, you know, eating pretty good.
I'm trying to eat really well,but my stomach's just getting
bigger.
But I'm also talking to mydoctor about this and that and
the hormones and stress and notsleeping.
And and why would my stomach getbigger?
And I was like, foo is energyand energy is or is calorie and
(18:35):
calories is energy, but you'renot expending the energy and
like, so where is it gonna go?
Right.
And stress and you know, right,blood sugar goes up and you
start getting, yeah.
She's like, oh my God, that'swhy, that's why.
Oh, I just she just connectedthe dots for her.
And I was like, okay, good.
But again, even in the book,it's not to when I talk about
nutrition, that's just oneexample.
(18:55):
There's many others.
But again, I think when peoplecan understand some of the whys
of around some of therecommendations and find, hey,
gosh, if I just make a reallysmall change, I don't have to
overhaul everything.
But if I can make a smallchange, incrementally I'm going
to get a little closer to whereI want to be.
So that, like if I mean, justfor life, for quality of life.
(19:18):
But then if you have a criticalincident, you're standing on
more solid ground uh to not beknocked over by it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
And I think that the other part too, when you talk
about growth, and let me knowwhat you think.
But I I I always quote Mr.
Bessel Vandercock, who says,growth is not like this, it's
not exponential, it looks weird,and it's these wiggly lines, and
it goes really until you get towhere you want, and then there's
gonna plateau, and sometimesyou're gonna go up and sometimes
gonna go down.
(19:46):
But I I think that that's theother part too that I feel
people don't quite understandabout you know therapy or
whatever you decide to do.
Oh, yeah, you're gonna be betterafter one session, you should be
done after that.
Of course not.
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
Yeah, I think it's page two.
Here's my here's what progresslooks like, right?
It's this horrible squigglyline.
So it was you too place, right?
Yeah.
So I yeah, and that was Iactually that's the there it is,
right?
So I mean, that's the thing isthat I tell people, you know,
oftentimes if you've gotten intoa habit of avoiding stuff, then
(20:20):
yeah, you might get some reliefbecause you you're avoiding
something, but that relief istemporary.
And then when you go to actuallyaddress something, just like if
I went to address a knee injury,I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna
actually start physical therapyon the knee, knee injury, then
I'm it's gonna, there's gonna besome inflammation and swelling
the first few physical therapy.
I don't go, oh my gosh, I thinkthey're making it worse.
(20:42):
I say, oh, I have some stuffgoing on in there that I'm
needing to do some work on.
And that's what's interestingabout people going to to
counseling or having openconversations with peers, is it
sometimes lets them know thatknee is a little sore when you
get to to moving it and thatapproaching that conversation
about that thing you're tryingto avoid kind of makes us
(21:05):
psychologically sore for alittle bit until it doesn't.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
So I appreciate you.
And like I said, Bessel does itwell.
The body keeps the score.
If you ever want to read that,that's great.
I don't recommend it to everyonebecause it's a little heavy duty
to read, but it is absolutelyessential for therapists, if you
ask me.
How about we shift gears andtalk about the other book now?
The peer support, the one I'dlike to hear more about that.
(21:30):
And you said, like I I thinkpre-interview, we talked about
how that one came out of youalmost like came out right away.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, that was a a brain dump,but in a positive way, because
I, as I mentioned in my prior uhportion of the episode, I was a
peer supporter.
And then I went on to become aclinician that worked with peer
teams and was doing occupationalwellness stuff for another
agency.
And so, so I was always lookingat and Researching what, you
(22:02):
know, how are peer teamshelping?
How are they not helping?
What are the most effectiveones?
I got pulled into the peersupport guideline committee and
became an ICISF instructor yearsago and have been teaching peer
support, thinking about peersupport.
So when I'm, you know, and Italked to Dr.
Jack Digliani, who's, you know,a peer support expert in
Colorado, and he's done somestudies on some of the few
(22:25):
studies that we actually have onthe effectiveness of peer
support and some of therecommendations for starting and
maintaining them.
And so, but in looking outthere, I was like, man, there's
just so much more to explore.
And so many people will have somany questions.
And I'm always being askedquestions from peer teams and
from agencies.
And I'm just, it's almost aweekly, if not multiple times a
(22:46):
week, someone asking me how tostart a team or maintain a team
or how to restart one.
And just like the first book, Iwas like, man, I have something
to say.
And I instead of answering ithere and there and just kind of
putting it behind closed doorsin this agency or in that other
place, I'm just going to put itout there.
And so it took me, and it justlike the first book, still
(23:08):
standing on the shoulders ofgiants and reading, you know,
Dr.
Jack's work, Dr.
Jack Stigliani's work and otherpeople's work and research where
it is.
But then a lot of and a lot ofthe research on what they're
doing in different states, butit was it was coming out of me
just lightning fast because itwas just like the just a free
flow of ideas because I had beenthinking about it and writing
(23:29):
about it and reflecting andtraining on it for so many years
that it was just a matter oforganizing it to be usable, to
be a to be a real toolbox forteams, for agencies, for
clinicians.
Because a lot of the questionsactually come from clinicians,
right?
How do we how do we do this?
Right.
I'm on this being asked to be onthis team.
(23:52):
What are the best practicesaround this?
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
So and I think that that's what we need to sit on.
You know, we all sit on theshoulders of giants.
If you think that everyone thatdoes anything on their in their
own vacuum, I think isabsolutely absurd.
That's why, like I like I said,I did a presentation at the FOP.
It was well received, but it wasbased on some of the work you've
done.
And I can talk about otherpeople, but Kevin Gilmartin is
(24:17):
another guy that I really thinkhighly of, who gave me great
ideas.
We actually I did an interviewwith him a few months ago.
But I never know everything andI never will pretend.
And that humbleness of the greatpeople that I've met is exactly
that.
Once you're humble about notknowing everything, you actually
know more than you you think youdo.
So tell me, so the peer supportbook, is it out or is it gonna
(24:40):
be out, or can I go buy it rightnow?
Where can I get it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, it's um it's coming out, I think August 26th.
The publisher will surpriseeveryone and they'll they'll
launch it beforehand, then I'llfind out afterwards.
But I've been meeting all mydeadlines to get certain things
approved and you know,typesetting and whatnot.
So hopefully they'll get it outbefore that.
But you can pre-order it onAmazon right now.
(25:04):
The pre-order through thepublisher at Routledge will be,
I think, August 6th, but I thinkit's going to be available for
pre-order on August 26th onAmazon.
And then, as always, as anauthor, I get my allotment
usually a month before everybodyelse does.
And so anybody that ordersdirectly from me that's in the
(25:24):
continental US, contiguous US,then I'm able to take pre-orders
and send them to them.
And so, yeah, so all I have atthis point is the call is the
card that says um what it, yeah,it's just the QR code for
pre-order, and that just givesme the shorthand of what the
chapters are, how I ended uporganizing the content.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So what I'll do is uh in the show notes, I will be
putting it in on your yourauthor Amazon thing.
So that way when it shows up,it'll be right there.
So people can go and order it.
We'll put in your website, whichis first respondersychology.com.
And that way people canpre-order from you.
(26:07):
I know I will be I'll be in lineto get that.
Probably won't be able to get mysign one face to face, but
nonetheless, would love to seeyou again.
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsI wanted to start with all my
guests, and there's always aninteresting.
This has came up from anotherpodcast that someone I listened
to that's not related at all,the first responder stuff.
(26:28):
But I always thought it was a itwas a great thing, and I'm gonna
try to put it in my podcast.
I don't know who my next guestis.
I do have a list, but it's Ican't tell you off the top of my
head.
That's what I'm saying.
If there was one question Ishould ask about my guests, and
you don't know if they're lawenforcement, you don't know if
they're fire, you don't know ifthey're just therapists or
clinicians.
Yeah, what would what would bethe one question I think
(26:50):
everyone should you thinkeveryone should ask and be able
to answer?
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
What is your why?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
I like that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Right.
Yeah.
Because I think when we havethat why, then that drives
everything else.
And when we lose sight of thatwhy, that's when we get things
like compassion fatigue andwhatever role we're playing,
right?
Because we have lost sight ofour compassion satisfaction, why
we're doing what we're doing,what purpose it offers us.
(27:18):
And I mean, I tell that to otherclinicians and I train, I tell
that to peer supporters, toclients who are first
responders.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
Yeah.
Well, what I'm gonna do, I thinkthat the next one I have is a
again, uh, someone who works inthe law enforcement field.
So I'm gonna ask them thatquestion and I'm gonna ask the
next person to ask a question.
I think it's a fun thing to doin that way.
It's kind of a continuance ofstuff.
But from the bottom, IStephanie, you know, I really
enjoy your book.
This is not uh my audienceknows.
(27:49):
I don't tell people like I likethis because I just want to say
stuff I I did really enjoy.
I got it twice, obviously.
And I hope people go and get it.
And I really want to thank youfor your time.
And hopefully at one point intime we'll meet again at some
conferences and even come backon the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Yeah, sounds great.
I appreciate your time and yeah,hope to come back.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
I I you you'll you will always be invited.
So thank you.
And thank you to my audience,and come back for the next
episode.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(28:43):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.