June 24, 2026 • 36 mins
One small action can change a whole community, and sometimes even rewrite what the next generation learns in school. We sit down with Brad and Kira Newberry to unpack the idea behind their book, The Saved Effect, and why a single rescue rarely ends when the ambulance doors close. Using the butterfly effect as a guide, we explore how “micro moments” of courage and care can ripple outward into families, careers, and public policy.
We dig into a story that’s hard to forget: an eight-year-old girl choking at a restaurant, a nurse stepping in with the Heimlich maneuver, and the long tail of that save. Years later, that same kid is training hundreds of people in CPR and pushing for a bill that would make CPR certification a high school graduation requirement. We connect that to a bigger first responder and public health question: why do we teach fire safety so well, but still treat CPR as optional life knowledge in so many places?
We also get real about first responder mental health and the culture shift around PTSD support, peer help, chaplains, and modern critical incident resources. Then we go straight into the generational friction point, with a father-daughter perspective on what Gen X and Gen Z each need to hear, and how EMS education can adapt to the way people actually learn today without lowering standards.
If you care about EMS, firefighter and police mental health, CPR training, or better leadership across generations, you’ll get a lot from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with someone in the service, and leave a review so more people can find it.
Find Brad and Kiera at the following links:
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thesavedeffect/
https://www.instagram.com/bradnewbury/
https://www.instagram.com/kieranewbury/
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/brad.newbury
https://www.facebook.com/kiera.newbury.1
Tiktok
https://www.tiktok.com/@thesavedeffect
https://www.tiktok.com/@bradnewbury1
https://www.tiktok.com/@kieranewbury
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@BradNewbury
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSavedEffect
Linkedin
www.linkedin.com/in/brad-newbury
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiera-newbury/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Well, welcome back to the second part of the
episode.
And hey, look, Brad and Kira arestill here.
And they're looking exactly thesame.
Didn't even do a costume change.
It's amazing.
But I want to talk more aboutyour book because you know we we
were talking about it in thefirst episode.
You can go back and listen towhat brought daughter-father
relationship to where they're atand into baiting at eight years
(00:51):
old.
Go listen back to that episodeto know that story.
And how me and Brad had to bethe remote control for our
parents.
Again, go back to that episodefor that story.
But I would love to hear abouthow I don't know who wants to
take this first, but the savedeffect.
It's an interesting titlebecause I, you know, I have my
own interpretation in my head,but how did you guys get to that
(01:13):
title?
Because that's always aninteresting.
I know I wrote a book andpeople, how did you come up with
that name?
Just popped up.
But for you guys, how did a saveeffect come up?
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Well, it was actually curious.
So I had a different name and Iwent to her with the name of it.
And and she she sat with it acouple of days later, she came
back to me and I'll let her tellthat story.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
So what was the first what was the first name
though?
What was the name of the name?
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
It was just saved.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Yeah, so I had I had been thinking about it and I
knew that it didn't reallyencapsulate everything that we
wanted it to.
And I had seen on social media abunch of things uh about the
butterfly effect, and I hadknown about it prior to this,
but I went to him and I said, Doyou do you know what the
butterfly effect is?
And he said no.
(01:59):
And so well, I explained it tohim that, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (02:02):
I'm not a movie guy either, Steve, so I didn't see
the butterfly effect the themovie.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
I had explained.
That it it's this phenomenonthat a butterfly flaps its wings
in South America and in Oklahomait could start a tornado.
And it's the fact that there areactions that occur somewhere in
the world that have theseamazing impacts tens of
(02:28):
thousands of miles away.
And and I think that thatreally, really took effect on
how we perceived these stories,because that's one of the main
reasons why we began writingthis book was because these
stories and the action of savinga life has so many effects later
on that one can't really even intotally think about because it
(02:56):
goes on and on for generations,really.
And and we had connected it tothe ripple effect too in the
book, and but I I brought it tohim and he was like, that is
just brilliant.
And it was another one of thosescenarios where I said, Oh,
you're just being my dad again.
SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
But the reality was that once I heard that and then
really started to think abouttruly, you know, the the as I I
went so of course he says, youknow, do you know what the
butterfly effect is?
I was like, that's why Google itand I start looking at it.
And I said, that is amazing.
It absolutely.
It's this ripple effect, right?
These little micro movementsthat change everything.
(03:32):
And I remember going back andand thinking about the and and I
even though I say I'm not amovie guy, I I was in the 80s,
but I'm not now because I'm sobusy.
But I was thinking about MichaelJ.
Fox in Back to the Future.
And remember where if he madeone little touch, one something
that changed that that createduh, you know, he met his mother
(03:54):
or whatever it was, it was goingto change everything in the
future.
Right.
And I was like, that's exactlywhat this is about.
This is exactly what we've seen,you know, because we have no
idea where the ripples are goingto go.
And we have this amazing storyin in the book about this young
woman, Madeline, and and and shewas saved in in a she was
(04:14):
choking in a restaurant in LakeWinnipes.
And and Kira wrote that story.
And and you know what she didafterward.
And and she, you want to tellthe story?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah, so so she was as you know, Lake Winnipesaukee
is uh one of the biggest lakesin New England.
But one thing that most peopledon't know is that their EMS
system or or their firedepartment is volunteer and it
it's at least in some of thesmall towns, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Yeah, it's so it can take New Hampshire is like that
for those who don't know fromoutside of here, but yeah, most
of New Hampshire is volunteer.
Go ahead, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
Yeah, so it can take a while to get to somebody
having a medical emergency.
And so this young girl, she waseight years old and she was at
the table with her entirefamily.
And one quote that has alwaysstayed with me the most
throughout writing this book iswhen she had stayed a piece of
steak lodged in her airway, shehad stood up and she said that
she looked around the table atthe people who loved her most
(05:08):
and they had no idea what to do.
And so her entire family wasjust so scared, and her parents
were trying everything that theycould or that they could think
of, and her grandmother wasbegging her to throw up, and she
just couldn't dislodge itherself.
And it was a young nurse who hadcome over and just kind of
quietly got in the middle of thesituation and said, Let me try
(05:31):
this.
And kudos to her parents whowere big enough to step aside
and give their whole world overto this stranger who, in two
abdominal thrusts, got thispiece of steak dislodged.
But she then turned around andcome high school.
She was trying to find her placein high school, and she really
couldn't find a club that spoketo her.
(05:53):
So she began an American RedCross chapter in her high
school.
And then she went and shepitched it to a boardroom full
of middle-aged professionals,and they had given her funding
to start this course, and shereceived CPR equipment,
mannequins, and she had gottenpeople that she could train to
(06:14):
become instructors, and she hadgone to her local restaurants
and trained their staff to onhow to do the Heimlich maneuver
and how to do it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:23):
Which is part of CPR, as you know, right?
I mean, it's part of the CPRclasses, airway, airway
instructors.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
It's now commonplace, but it wasn't so
common years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Exactly.
And so she began going out intoher community and and teaching
her entire community how to dothese things that could save
lives.
And she actually got in touchwith Senator Bruce Tarr, who is
a Massachusetts senator.
And together they've teamed upto now push a bill that makes it
a mandatory requirement in orderto graduate high school to
(06:57):
become CPR certified.
And Massachusetts is one inseven states where we don't have
that requirement, which isabsolutely insane to think that
we're the number one leaders ineducation and healthcare.
And yet when it comes to joiningthem together, we we lack in
that.
And but she she just let us knowa few weeks ago that she just
(07:17):
got into Harvard and she isgoing to make impeccable ripples
just in the work that she'salready done.
But I can only imagine whatshe's gonna do in the future.
And when you think about justthe people that she's trained,
she's trained hundreds of peopleso far.
And she was featured on onInside Edition and the Kelly
Clarkson show.
And Kelly Clarkson even gave hersome money to fund a lot of
(07:40):
these adventures that she's has.
And yeah, on the flip side ofthat, when you think about that,
Madeline was saved.
And now she has trained hundredsof people who are now able to go
out into the world and saveothers.
And nobody will really be ableto know how many lives that
Madeline has impacted just fromher 18 years on this earth.
SPEAKER_03 (08:01):
And and if that bill does get passed, I mean, think
about that.
You know, every single highschool student uh, you know,
will have to have mandatory CPRtraining before they graduate.
And and I like to think aboutgoing back to, you know, I I've
been in the fire service for along time.
And and in my own department, Iwork for Stoughton Fire.
You know, I've I've you know,I'm a captain there now and a
(08:22):
shift commander.
We don't have battalion chiefs,but that's really my role.
So I work in a now in an SUV.
But when my first when I firstbecame a lieutenant back in
2001, my first my first job as alieutenant was fire prevention.
And if I said to you, Steve,what would you do if your
clothes were on fire?
What would you do?
What's the three things we tellpeople?
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
I can't remember the exact I know it in French
though, so If you throw yourselfto the ground and then you roll.
SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
Yeah, stop, drop, and roll, right?
Like stop, drop and roll.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
Sorry, the French brain kicks in once.
That's okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:56):
That's okay.
At least you knew what to do.
But but the reality is, is wehave been going into from
preschool to kindergarten allthrough grade school, the fire
department has gone in andtaught fire prevention, fire
safety.
And every kid, if you ask a youknow, a a a 30, 40, 40-year-old
what are they supposed to dowhen their clothes are on fire,
they remember back to thatfirefighter who came into their
(09:17):
classroom who said, stop dropand roll, right?
And but what we haven't done isis build the skill set around
CPR.
And and I think that, you know,when we think about the ripple
effect, and it's so amazing, isthat we have no idea what will,
you know, those lives that willbe saved because of the work
that Madeline because she wassaved and now went on to to do
(09:39):
all these incredible things.
And we have another story of afirefighter who, Rich Smith, who
was who went into cardiac arrestin in the Bridgewater fire
station, and and his, you know,is recognized by well, actually
one of our former graduates wasit was his second day on the
job.
And this is where one of thethings that really hit me was so
(10:01):
Rich was saved.
His team they went out and it'sa great story.
They went out and that the teamcame in and they they
resuscitated Rich.
And he, like I said, he wasfound by Neil Harrington, who
was it was literally his secondday on the job.
And he wasn't even supposed tobe where he was, but it was it's
a great story.
Anyway, as Rich healed, youknow, and and later on he
(10:22):
couldn't be a firefighterbecause he had an implanted
defibrillator, so he couldn't bea career firefighter.
Mass doesn't allow that.
And but he was able to go on andcontinue to serve as a paramedic
because he just loved being aparamedic and and he didn't want
to leave the profession.
So he went to work for CarverEMS, Carver, the town of Carver.
And and just happened that mywife's nephew, who's one of our
graduates here, was getting anaward for like our or they're
(10:46):
bringing them together in the inthe town for they had a great
save.
So they helped resuscitate thiswoman, and she was gonna meet
everybody.
And and I had heard that Maddiewas going to get this award from
the from the town selectman.
So I was like, Oh, I gotta go, Ilove this kid.
So I'm like, I gotta go supporthim.
So I went there and I walk inand there's Rich.
And and Rich was also aneducator at our school, right?
(11:08):
And I said, I looked at him, Igo, What are you doing here?
And he goes, Ah, they give mesome award.
I helped uh, you know, we savesome lady, and and I was like, I
rem I took a I have a greatpicture of Maddie and and Rich
and this woman that they thatthey had worked as a team, and
he was part of that team thatthat resuscitated this woman,
and she's standing in there withher family.
And I remember driving home andthinking about that.
(11:32):
And and you think you think froma from a mental health
standpoint, right?
Here is a firefighter paramedicwho had gone into cardiac arrest
himself, was saved, and thenwent on and and was involved in
helping save another life.
And he still continues to surf.
Like this is amazing.
(11:52):
And it was those stories that aswe began to connect and think
about you know this the effector the saved effect of what you
know that one life bringingback.
And if you look at the the thewe have a great story about John
Lee who drowned in LakeWinnipes, another Lake Winnipes
story.
But you know, it you think aboutthat individual who's underwater
(12:14):
and when he was brought back outof the water and then was was
resuscitated and and then whathis life looked like now.
So those those deeply humanstories that ripple out are just
it was exactly why we wrote thisbook.
And and it I I felt like thesestories were inside of me that
(12:34):
that I knew about, and then youknow, we just had to tell it.
And it was he it it was verylike I said, it was very special
not only to work with Ciara overthis last year, but it was it
was as we as this story startedto develop, and and of course
the same thing.
I'm thinking, like, I've beentelling some of these stories
for years, but now all of asudden we started telling some
(12:54):
strangers and and that wereinvolved in the publishing
process.
Uh and at one point we're at ameeting with a couple of folks
from the publishing company, andwe're showing them a promo video
of what we did, and they'recrying.
And we're like, oh boy, this iswe we did we knew we had
something special.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Yeah.
And I I want to touch on thosestories that you mentioned too,
especially the the Neil and Richstory, because you had you had
asked about trauma, and both ofthose stories, the John Lee,
where the the kid who the boywho drowned in the lake, and and
the Neil and Rich, the one whosaved his brother firefighter in
the firehouse, both of themdiscuss and and we don't go into
(13:34):
depth about it, but i if youlook for it, it is touched upon.
They both discuss PTSD, andthey're both in very different
ways, too.
For Neil and Rich, Neil, again,it was his second day on the
job, and he had found one of hisbrethren firefighters dead in
the bedroom, and he had goneinto the apparatus bay, and he
(13:56):
spoke about it in a way that wasjust so emotionally compelling.
And he said, I walked in to abunch of people who didn't know
what I knew.
And so then he later on, afterafter the call had gone through,
and his captain had looked athim and said, You need to see
this call through.
You need to see this callthrough.
(14:17):
You need to be in the back ofthe ambulance to deliver him to
the hospital, and you need tosee him drop get dropped off
alive.
And he had discussed how he wasoutside the hospital and he just
wasn't dealing with it well.
And his captain had gone to himand said, You need to speak to
the the chaplain.
And this was 15 years ago,almost about so when he had said
(14:41):
that to me, I I had studiedpsychology in college and it it
threw up red flags, right?
When you when you say you'rehaving a to you're having a
tough time dealing with a callto go speak with the chaplain.
SPEAKER_03 (14:54):
Okay, so not even knowing if he was religious or
not.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I mean it was exactly it was it was it made me
chuckle a little bit, but it itjust showed so much of the the
culture shift that's happeningcurrently in EMS.
And I think it's definitely beenwithin the past five to ten
years that your generation andmy generation have I I know that
there sometimes can be timeswhere Gen Z and some of the
(15:20):
older generations can clash withthe fact that a lot of people
who have been in this professionfor years think that the new
kids are trying to come in andkind of destroy everything
they've worked so hard for.
And I I think that the the shiftin mindset is coming from the
fact that Gen Z has never wantedto get rid of these things that
(15:45):
have been in place and and andGen Z doesn't really say what
you're doing is is bad.
We I think what we uh try to doconstantly is say we could be
better.
And so I think that's currentlyhappening in a lot of these
these professions and workforcesin this, and it's just so
evident in the fact that when hesaid that he had gone to the
(16:07):
chaplain to talk, it took meaback because that that doesn't
happen.
Now we have critical incidentmanagement systems and you know
mental mental healthprofessionals who come into
these like yourself who comeinto the departments and the
hospitals to try and help thesethese professionals who need
help.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
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(16:54):
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(17:18):
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Now, right back to the episode.
You guys just talked a lot, andI have about 400 things to add.
We shouldn't like just a series.
I you might be thinking I'mjoking, but it may be important
(17:41):
for us to think about doing aseries of all this because we
have two different generationsthat are able to understand what
truly needs to be done and theimportance of the saved effect
and what it does.
That's I re I did that in theERs, just people like, oh, you
helped my brother.
Like, that's great.
I don't remember your brother,but apparently that remember
people remember that stuff.
(18:02):
Two things you gotta mention youmentioned.
High school and CPR should bemandated in Massachusetts.
We are we're just trying to getpeople to college instead of
getting them real education forreal life.
That is my political statement.
You can read me if you want, ifyou want to.
My daughter is doing her, she'sdoing her at the tech school.
She already has her first aidCPR in biotech, and they're
(18:24):
gonna they're gonna renew itevery year until she's done.
And that's so important to me.
I learned how to do that toowhen I was in school, again in
French, but it's still valid.
You know, you talked about whatthe change happened 10 to 15
years ago.
I like to think that theGeneration Xers kind of pushed
in the BB boomers and said, Hey,we want ride-alongs.
We might not, we might becivilians, but we can help out
(18:44):
as a mental health counselor, asother people, and that changed
the value.
I remember starting inFramingham and the jail
diversion program, where youknow, I mentioned this on you
mentioned Joe earlier privately.
I was the hug a tug program.
Oh, you're gonna ride along,you're gonna give them a hug.
I'm like, no, I want to getsomeone who's mentally ill, the
treatment they deserve, ratherthan put them in jail.
(19:05):
I don't know, that sounds crazy,but nowadays it's common.
But at the time it was a crazythought process.
You know, I think that that'swhere the gen generation Xers
have accepted some good ideasfrom the past and say shh this
sucks, and then went on andsaid, Okay, this is better.
And generation Xers are a littlemore open, but they're still
resilient resistant to generatethe millennials and generation Z
(19:27):
about their ideas, but we'vebecome a lot more open to that.
But I'm not saying it's perfectby any stretch of the
imagination.
And let me add another thingthat you maybe you guys can do
this with your uh paramedicswhen you're doing in the schools
and even in the ERs.
Awards are so important, andwhat I mean by that is this
awards educate people for whathas to be done and what you can
(19:49):
do in the community to supportyour community.
We might be a country a countryof all for like the you know, be
the best you can be, blah, blah,blah.
But we're also a community andwe forget that.
And those awards bring back thecommunity.
And too many first responders,in particular, nurses and other
people, like they get thoseawards and get embarrassed or
they kind of like poo-poo it outof the way.
(20:11):
No, this is an education piecethat the media does in order to
move our like all this thesethings so that the community
gets it.
My neighbor who's elderly needsCPR.
I mean, okay, I haven't done myCPR in about five years, but I
do remember a little bit of it.
So, no, I there's a goodSamaritan law in Massachusetts
that'll protect me.
And until the firefighters orEMS or whoever gets there, I can
(20:34):
do something.
I think that one of the things Ihope you can educate people is
awards aren't a bad thing.
It's a great PR move for thecommunity to work with the
community because hey, no onegets out of here alive, number
one, and number two might aswell be there for each other
because no one's getting out ofhere alive, right?
One of the things you didn't wedidn't mention, I want to
mention, and I asked because yousaid, you know, I was listening
(20:56):
to you, Kira, and I laughedbecause oh dad, you're being too
nice or you're just saying thatbecause I'm your daughter.
Actually, my experience withfirst responders and
firefighters is they're harderon their daughters and sons than
they are to the rest of thefight.
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
But I think I think that it's in different aspects
of life, too.
I obviously every time I have abig accomplishment, he's one of
my number one supporters.
And but it is funny because youtold a story the other day about
how growing up when we would gethurt, right, they have both of
my parents have these pastexperiences where they kind of
(21:35):
determine the severity of asituation based on their past
experiences.
And so if we were to, you know,break a bone or or get hurt in
another way, then that would bethe the suck it up attitude.
Because if we could walk and wecould talk and we were
breathing, we were fine.
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
It can't be that bad.
I I'm with you, Brad.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean that, youknow, it is funny because Kira's
sister Bridget, she her her wewe grew they grew up watching
American Idol.
And let's not get anybody,neither one of them can sing,
right?
They just can't.
And and they're like, Dad, wewant to be on American Idol.
I was like, I'm sorry, girls,that's just not possible.
(22:15):
You just don't have that voicefor that.
And my wife's saying to me, Oh,that's harsh.
I'm like, no, no, no.
Somebody's got to tell them.
How many people have we seen onAmerican Idol who get up there
and you're like, oh my goodness,like, where are their parents?
How come they're not beingtruthful?
Why are they allowing thatperson to get up there?
You know, poor Simon's tellingthem the truth, and everybody
hates that guy.
But but I I do think that you'reonto something.
(22:36):
And and I will say, Kira isincredibly insightful, and there
are times that I have 100%listened to her, right?
Because she she brings anargument.
And oh boy, do I bring anargument.
And I don't I don't just meanlike yelling and screaming.
I'm talking about academic,right?
I mean, you think about thedifference between you know us
(22:58):
and say Gen Zars.
You know, Kira wanted to takeher best friend across the
street who she grew up withsince she was literally an
infant to school every day,right?
And uh with with their vehicle,and we said, oh no, no, you
cannot have any kids invehicles, right?
Like this is just not gonnahappen.
Kira goes out, searched theinternet, finds a study that
(23:19):
shows that teenagers who have uhother teenagers in the car are
more safe.
And literally presents this atthe dinner table to my wife and
I.
We're like, okay, this is whatit happens when you have smart
kids.
Like that, you know, but youhave to listen, as a as a
reason, you know, as a I I havea graduate degree, right?
At one point doing research, youhave to accept the null, right?
So we you you know, it might notbe your opinion.
(23:42):
But I will say, you know, Kira'snot only during this process,
but even before, like we changedour whole the way we teach EMTs
here based on the feedback thatKira gave us as a Gen Zer and
the way that we produce our ourvideos and the way that we
produce our content, because wealso know that these are the
these are our students.
And so she she came to me andsaid, Dad, I can't sit through
(24:04):
these long lectures.
SPEAKER_01 (24:06):
They were three and a half hours long and they all
talked like this for the sameamount of time, and no there was
no uh difference in it.
It was so monotone and no hateto the instructors because they
did a wonderful job teaching.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
What's that?
I'm sorry, I fell asleep whileyou were saying exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
But but our generation, my generation is is
on TikTok.
We watched 30-second clips, andthat can barely hold our
attention before we're swipingto the next one, and we're just
looking for that dopamine rush,really.
SPEAKER_03 (24:33):
So we went out and built this amazing EMT program
around some of the feedback thatwe were getting from our
students.
We did a bunch of research,looked at the way we keep
attention, looked at cameraangles, the way we move camera
angles, everything that wouldkeep attention from the student,
but then then also through thatstorytelling, too, as well.
And I'm not talking about warstories, I'm talking about can
(24:55):
you connect stories to tolearning?
And that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
And I think that's so important.
I I joke around about I'm thesame way.
I can't listen to people droneon for like Yeah.
Like Charlie Brown's teacher.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
Well, that that really remarksyour age because I'm sure it
happened with people listeninggoing, who the hell is that?
But I think it's also veryimportant that you listen to
each other.
One of the misconceptions I findthat happens in these debates of
(25:21):
generation X versus Generation Zversus baby boomers.
I mean, we did the best we canwe could with what we had.
The real important part is thatI think that you need to be able
to say as a generation Xer, I'mgonna learn from millennials,
I'm gonna learn from Gen Z, I'mgonna learn from whatever
generation alpha now is comingup, whatever the hell it is.
(25:42):
But the point is, is I think thedifference is some people like,
no, this is what I know, this iswhat I stick to.
Well, maybe what you know thenwork 30 years ago, it's not
gonna work today.
And that's important to realizethat yeah, it did work, but it
no longer it is no longerworking with the generation we
have.
I think that for me, the reasonwhy I want to highlight a little
bit, not only here for your bookhere, one of the things that my
(26:03):
audience always talks about iswhat's the dynamics at home, you
know, families and all that.
So that's why I really want tobring that up because you're you
brought something, Kira, that Ithink is so needed.
I still think that the didacticuh treatment of paramedic
schools is still a littleoutdated, not necessarily yours,
but some others where askingkids to sit in front of a video
(26:25):
for three hours of like boringstuff, they're on their phone,
they didn't pay attention, loand behold, they go to paramedic
task and they fail.
Because why?
They didn't listen to half theshit because they got bored.
SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
And they used Quizlet.
SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
Yeah.
And I think that that's whereyou know, listening to everyone
and what they bring as valuableis is so that it's so important
to hear.
And like I really appreciatethat.
That's why I was asking aboutthat dynamic, because I think
that this is something thatevery person needs to hear.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
On the flip side of that, too.
I think that because you hadmentioned that Gen X can't
really just put push these theseyounger generations aside and
cast them away.
I I do think that there havebeen many times I have been
wrong and my dad has been right,but I I do think as Gen Zers who
it's recorded, Brad.
SPEAKER_03 (27:12):
I'm not thinking.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Can we just get that clip?
I'm gonna play it.
You're good.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
I I think that as Gen Zers, we can kind of just
look at our parents and or orolder generations in general and
just say, okay, you know, rollour eyes and and cast you guys
aside too.
But you you guys are the oneswho have the experiences in
life, and and you can teach usso many things.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
So well, when you think about the saved effect,
I'm gonna just jump jump in.
Your dad's experience isvaluable to you, but you've got
some of it that's no longervalid to you.
That doesn't mean that's not allvalid, just means some of it
isn't.
And for the same thing, hearingyour gener your younger
generation as a generationexpert, sometimes I listen to
your stuff about it's that I'mlike, that's not valuable to me.
(27:59):
But then I hear about how tolearn, how to perceive things,
how to work with people.
I'm like, oh shit, these aregood ideas.
So I think it's not being one orthe other, it's really being in
between and started to bring intherapy here and bringing a
little bit of that middle groundprocess, but that middle ground
process so essential because I Iremember that I was 20 and I
knew everything.
(28:20):
Not that I'm 50, I know what Iknow fits in a thimble in the
size of this room now, andrealizing that is helpful for us
to hear other people versussaying you know everything.
SPEAKER_03 (28:30):
Sure, the Dunning-Kruger effect, right?
SPEAKER_02 (28:33):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, or is it is it Socrates too?
Was Socrates the one who knowsnothing?
Or I could be, I think that I'mwrong.
One of the philosophers.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Yeah, I'm one of the philosophers.
We'll we'll say Socrates.
No one's gonna check, no, noone's gonna fact check us.
Oh, wait a minute.
Your generation will actually.
That is true.
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
Yeah, yeah, they will.
But I uh one one comment I dowant to make about today's
generation is is that we here atour school see the youth of
America.
And I'm incredibly proud ofthose men and women that are
coming into our profession andwilling to serve.
Many of them, their future isbright, so our future is bright.
(29:10):
They have this unquenched thirstfor knowledge, they have a
curiosity that that forces themto go out and and make their own
research on whatever it is.
You know, one of the things weteach here is, you know, what's
the problem, why is ithappening, what can I do about
it, right?
Like so from thepathophysiological level, of if
they don't understand why it'shappening, they can't understand
the treatment modalities thatthey're gonna they need to use.
(29:33):
And then what, you know, Ialways like to ask a question of
like, when you push the plungeron that medication, what's gonna
happen?
And it takes a level ofcuriosity and a level of
commitment to education that Idefinitely see in in in our
younger students.
So I I think we have a lot ofpromise ahead of us.
And this generation, they get abad rap.
Some of some individuals, wecan't blanket them.
(29:55):
There are some individuals whoprobably deserve it, right?
But our our generation too hasindividuals where we deserve
some of that that negative youknow connotations too.
So I I'm very, very hopeful, andI see that Youth of America of
today, and and and I love whatI'm seeing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
I had a question I wanted to ask, but I'm gonna
change it up because this is sopertinent.
Uh I'll ask both of you the samething.
So from your generation to youknow the other generation that's
sitting at the table here.
What's the one thing they needto hear from the other
generation?
They need to hear, not just likethey got to hear and understand,
not just like perceive.
(30:33):
What would a generation uh Zperson say to a generation Xer
that needs to learn?
And vice versa, what doesGeneration X has to say to Gen Z
that they have to learn?
I think it's a great question,particularly in the first
responder world, because it'sbecome an us versus them
mentality, and I'm like I'm donewith that stuff.
I I there's no us versus them,there's there's a unity, and we
(30:55):
all like again, maybe I'm toodark, but we all end up at the
same place, so might as wellwork together.
SPEAKER_03 (31:01):
But it's dark in that place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
Yeah.
So what would what do you thinkthat Generation X has to learn
maybe from a generation Z, so tospeak, uh, Kira?
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
I would say and and I I don't want to blanket this
to absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
It's made to be a blanket statement that doesn't,
if it doesn't touch you, itdoesn't go for you.
It's just a gener we're justtalking.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Change is okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
Okay, that's a good statement.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I I think that there's gonna be a lot of change
coming up in a lot of aspects ofall professions and and all
generations, and we have to beadaptable to the future, or else
if we stay in the past, then nogood will ever come from it.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
You live in the past, man.
I'm sorry.
To quote something.
Brad, what what does GenerationX have to teach Generation Z or
what does Generation Z need tohear from Generation X?
SPEAKER_03 (31:56):
Experience matters.
And I think that the experiencesthat we have had in in our
generation, uh particularlyaround fire and EMS, you know,
is that uh my 40 years in fireand EMS uh m gives me a view of
the world and through definitelythrough experiences.
And when when you're makingdecisions, you go back to you
(32:18):
know uh uh psychology ofdecision making, right?
You know, Gary Klein's theory ofrecognition prime decision
making.
Experience matters.
I think sometimes the theyounger generation doesn't
appreciate that thoseexperiences that that the older
generation went through helpshape the way that they see the
world, the way that they see thenext call, the way that they
(32:39):
make a decision.
And and and they might notappreciate that those
experiences do matter in the waythat I I I've said it so many
times.
I wish I could I wish I had aUSB port where I could unzip,
you know, all the experiences,zip them up, and then hand them
over to to that student, tothat, you know, to our new
(33:00):
cadet, our new trainee, and andgive them all of them.
But I I don't believe that Ithink you have to have lived
experiences because in my mind,experiences are visceral, right?
There's emotions get that gettied to an experience.
And that's what solidifies thoseexperiences for you to help you
(33:21):
make higher level cognitivedecisions, maybe even in
extremis uh in the future.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
So we gotta be willing to learn and be willing
to change.
And I think that's a greatlesson for all of us in in all
the f the EMS worldparticularly.
I think therapists need tounderstand that too, because
that's life.
But I think that's great advice.
I want to finish on this.
I want to you guys be able totell me where I can get the
saved effect and how I get myI'm gonna get my personal signed
(33:51):
copy, personally, but where do Igo?
SPEAKER_03 (33:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (33:55):
Where do where can people find that?
I'm gonna definitely link it inthe show notes too.
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
So probably the best place to start is the saved
effect.com.
If you go to our website, weactually have it from there
it'll link out to wherever youbuy books, whether it be Amazon,
Barnes and Noble, it's it'severywhere.
And so even if you just Googlethe Save Effect, you would find
it.
But I think if you start off onour website, thesavedeffect.com,
you can come back to ourwebsite.
(34:20):
And if you buy it now, then wehave a package in pre-sale
because the book doesn'tphysically release until August
18th.
However, in pre-sale right now,if you buy it, you're gonna get
not only the the PDF of our ourthe transcript, the manuscript
is gonna we're gonna send you aPDF right away.
And we're also gonna send youthe audiobook for the pre-sale
(34:42):
that Kira and I just recorded.
And that's not gonna be thefinal audio book that'll be for
sale, because we are producingone, but something that Kira and
I wanted to give to all of thosefolks that that joined our
mission in the very beginninghere in a pre-launch before we
get there.
So if if also you can follow uson the save effect in in both on
(35:03):
TikTok and Twitter and notTwitter, I'm sorry, not Twitter.
SPEAKER_01 (35:06):
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and then our personals
are just our names, KiraNewberry and Brad Newberry on
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
And I'm gonna link all that in the show notes for
everyone to go see.
I will be getting my own copywhen it comes out.
Absolutely.
Now I'm now I'm super excited tohear the audiobook too, so I'm
gonna be doing that.
But from the bottom of my heart,I I I know that you probably
hear this a lot.
You've probably done a fewpodcasts at this point.
Please come back.
I would love to hear more aboutyour stories because I think the
(35:38):
we don't need to treat differentgeneration as a clash.
And I think that you guys are agreat example.
And that within families, we canstill be supportive yet
challenge each other.
I mean, within the firstresponder world, not just
challenge each other or pusheach other away, which
unfortunately happens more oftenthan not.
So I want to thank you for yourtime and your candor, and I hope
you do come back soon.
SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having us.
This has been a greatconversation.
Really enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Yes, we'll definitely have to come back
because we have way more to talkabout.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
I I can't wait to talk about a lot of different
things.
So I've got like a whole sheethere, but um I wanna I want to
thank everyone for listening,and I hope you come back for the
next episode.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to theprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(36:41):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Well, welcome back to the second part of the
episode.
And hey, look, Brad and Kira arestill here.
And they're looking exactly thesame.
Didn't even do a costume change.
It's amazing.
But I want to talk more aboutyour book because you know we we
were talking about it in thefirst episode.
You can go back and listen towhat brought daughter-father
relationship to where they're atand into baiting at eight years
(00:51):
old.
Go listen back to that episodeto know that story.
And how me and Brad had to bethe remote control for our
parents.
Again, go back to that episodefor that story.
But I would love to hear abouthow I don't know who wants to
take this first, but the savedeffect.
It's an interesting titlebecause I, you know, I have my
own interpretation in my head,but how did you guys get to that
(01:13):
title?
Because that's always aninteresting.
I know I wrote a book andpeople, how did you come up with
that name?
Just popped up.
But for you guys, how did a saveeffect come up?
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Well, it was actually curious.
So I had a different name and Iwent to her with the name of it.
And and she she sat with it acouple of days later, she came
back to me and I'll let her tellthat story.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
So what was the first what was the first name
though?
What was the name of the name?
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
It was just saved.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Yeah, so I had I had been thinking about it and I
knew that it didn't reallyencapsulate everything that we
wanted it to.
And I had seen on social media abunch of things uh about the
butterfly effect, and I hadknown about it prior to this,
but I went to him and I said, Doyou do you know what the
butterfly effect is?
And he said no.
(01:59):
And so well, I explained it tohim that, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (02:02):
I'm not a movie guy either, Steve, so I didn't see
the butterfly effect the themovie.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
I had explained.
That it it's this phenomenonthat a butterfly flaps its wings
in South America and in Oklahomait could start a tornado.
And it's the fact that there areactions that occur somewhere in
the world that have theseamazing impacts tens of
(02:28):
thousands of miles away.
And and I think that thatreally, really took effect on
how we perceived these stories,because that's one of the main
reasons why we began writingthis book was because these
stories and the action of savinga life has so many effects later
on that one can't really even intotally think about because it
(02:56):
goes on and on for generations,really.
And and we had connected it tothe ripple effect too in the
book, and but I I brought it tohim and he was like, that is
just brilliant.
And it was another one of thosescenarios where I said, Oh,
you're just being my dad again.
SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
But the reality was that once I heard that and then
really started to think abouttruly, you know, the the as I I
went so of course he says, youknow, do you know what the
butterfly effect is?
I was like, that's why Google itand I start looking at it.
And I said, that is amazing.
It absolutely.
It's this ripple effect, right?
These little micro movementsthat change everything.
(03:32):
And I remember going back andand thinking about the and and I
even though I say I'm not amovie guy, I I was in the 80s,
but I'm not now because I'm sobusy.
But I was thinking about MichaelJ.
Fox in Back to the Future.
And remember where if he madeone little touch, one something
that changed that that createduh, you know, he met his mother
(03:54):
or whatever it was, it was goingto change everything in the
future.
Right.
And I was like, that's exactlywhat this is about.
This is exactly what we've seen,you know, because we have no
idea where the ripples are goingto go.
And we have this amazing storyin in the book about this young
woman, Madeline, and and and shewas saved in in a she was
(04:14):
choking in a restaurant in LakeWinnipes.
And and Kira wrote that story.
And and you know what she didafterward.
And and she, you want to tellthe story?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah, so so she was as you know, Lake Winnipesaukee
is uh one of the biggest lakesin New England.
But one thing that most peopledon't know is that their EMS
system or or their firedepartment is volunteer and it
it's at least in some of thesmall towns, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Yeah, it's so it can take New Hampshire is like that
for those who don't know fromoutside of here, but yeah, most
of New Hampshire is volunteer.
Go ahead, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
Yeah, so it can take a while to get to somebody
having a medical emergency.
And so this young girl, she waseight years old and she was at
the table with her entirefamily.
And one quote that has alwaysstayed with me the most
throughout writing this book iswhen she had stayed a piece of
steak lodged in her airway, shehad stood up and she said that
she looked around the table atthe people who loved her most
(05:08):
and they had no idea what to do.
And so her entire family wasjust so scared, and her parents
were trying everything that theycould or that they could think
of, and her grandmother wasbegging her to throw up, and she
just couldn't dislodge itherself.
And it was a young nurse who hadcome over and just kind of
quietly got in the middle of thesituation and said, Let me try
(05:31):
this.
And kudos to her parents whowere big enough to step aside
and give their whole world overto this stranger who, in two
abdominal thrusts, got thispiece of steak dislodged.
But she then turned around andcome high school.
She was trying to find her placein high school, and she really
couldn't find a club that spoketo her.
(05:53):
So she began an American RedCross chapter in her high
school.
And then she went and shepitched it to a boardroom full
of middle-aged professionals,and they had given her funding
to start this course, and shereceived CPR equipment,
mannequins, and she had gottenpeople that she could train to
(06:14):
become instructors, and she hadgone to her local restaurants
and trained their staff to onhow to do the Heimlich maneuver
and how to do it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:23):
Which is part of CPR, as you know, right?
I mean, it's part of the CPRclasses, airway, airway
instructors.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
It's now commonplace, but it wasn't so
common years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Exactly.
And so she began going out intoher community and and teaching
her entire community how to dothese things that could save
lives.
And she actually got in touchwith Senator Bruce Tarr, who is
a Massachusetts senator.
And together they've teamed upto now push a bill that makes it
a mandatory requirement in orderto graduate high school to
(06:57):
become CPR certified.
And Massachusetts is one inseven states where we don't have
that requirement, which isabsolutely insane to think that
we're the number one leaders ineducation and healthcare.
And yet when it comes to joiningthem together, we we lack in
that.
And but she she just let us knowa few weeks ago that she just
(07:17):
got into Harvard and she isgoing to make impeccable ripples
just in the work that she'salready done.
But I can only imagine whatshe's gonna do in the future.
And when you think about justthe people that she's trained,
she's trained hundreds of peopleso far.
And she was featured on onInside Edition and the Kelly
Clarkson show.
And Kelly Clarkson even gave hersome money to fund a lot of
(07:40):
these adventures that she's has.
And yeah, on the flip side ofthat, when you think about that,
Madeline was saved.
And now she has trained hundredsof people who are now able to go
out into the world and saveothers.
And nobody will really be ableto know how many lives that
Madeline has impacted just fromher 18 years on this earth.
SPEAKER_03 (08:01):
And and if that bill does get passed, I mean, think
about that.
You know, every single highschool student uh, you know,
will have to have mandatory CPRtraining before they graduate.
And and I like to think aboutgoing back to, you know, I I've
been in the fire service for along time.
And and in my own department, Iwork for Stoughton Fire.
You know, I've I've you know,I'm a captain there now and a
(08:22):
shift commander.
We don't have battalion chiefs,but that's really my role.
So I work in a now in an SUV.
But when my first when I firstbecame a lieutenant back in
2001, my first my first job as alieutenant was fire prevention.
And if I said to you, Steve,what would you do if your
clothes were on fire?
What would you do?
What's the three things we tellpeople?
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
I can't remember the exact I know it in French
though, so If you throw yourselfto the ground and then you roll.
SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
Yeah, stop, drop, and roll, right?
Like stop, drop and roll.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
Sorry, the French brain kicks in once.
That's okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:56):
That's okay.
At least you knew what to do.
But but the reality is, is wehave been going into from
preschool to kindergarten allthrough grade school, the fire
department has gone in andtaught fire prevention, fire
safety.
And every kid, if you ask a youknow, a a a 30, 40, 40-year-old
what are they supposed to dowhen their clothes are on fire,
they remember back to thatfirefighter who came into their
(09:17):
classroom who said, stop dropand roll, right?
And but what we haven't done isis build the skill set around
CPR.
And and I think that, you know,when we think about the ripple
effect, and it's so amazing, isthat we have no idea what will,
you know, those lives that willbe saved because of the work
that Madeline because she wassaved and now went on to to do
(09:39):
all these incredible things.
And we have another story of afirefighter who, Rich Smith, who
was who went into cardiac arrestin in the Bridgewater fire
station, and and his, you know,is recognized by well, actually
one of our former graduates wasit was his second day on the
job.
And this is where one of thethings that really hit me was so
(10:01):
Rich was saved.
His team they went out and it'sa great story.
They went out and that the teamcame in and they they
resuscitated Rich.
And he, like I said, he wasfound by Neil Harrington, who
was it was literally his secondday on the job.
And he wasn't even supposed tobe where he was, but it was it's
a great story.
Anyway, as Rich healed, youknow, and and later on he
(10:22):
couldn't be a firefighterbecause he had an implanted
defibrillator, so he couldn't bea career firefighter.
Mass doesn't allow that.
And but he was able to go on andcontinue to serve as a paramedic
because he just loved being aparamedic and and he didn't want
to leave the profession.
So he went to work for CarverEMS, Carver, the town of Carver.
And and just happened that mywife's nephew, who's one of our
graduates here, was getting anaward for like our or they're
(10:46):
bringing them together in the inthe town for they had a great
save.
So they helped resuscitate thiswoman, and she was gonna meet
everybody.
And and I had heard that Maddiewas going to get this award from
the from the town selectman.
So I was like, Oh, I gotta go, Ilove this kid.
So I'm like, I gotta go supporthim.
So I went there and I walk inand there's Rich.
And and Rich was also aneducator at our school, right?
(11:08):
And I said, I looked at him, Igo, What are you doing here?
And he goes, Ah, they give mesome award.
I helped uh, you know, we savesome lady, and and I was like, I
rem I took a I have a greatpicture of Maddie and and Rich
and this woman that they thatthey had worked as a team, and
he was part of that team thatthat resuscitated this woman,
and she's standing in there withher family.
And I remember driving home andthinking about that.
(11:32):
And and you think you think froma from a mental health
standpoint, right?
Here is a firefighter paramedicwho had gone into cardiac arrest
himself, was saved, and thenwent on and and was involved in
helping save another life.
And he still continues to surf.
Like this is amazing.
(11:52):
And it was those stories that aswe began to connect and think
about you know this the effector the saved effect of what you
know that one life bringingback.
And if you look at the the thewe have a great story about John
Lee who drowned in LakeWinnipes, another Lake Winnipes
story.
But you know, it you think aboutthat individual who's underwater
(12:14):
and when he was brought back outof the water and then was was
resuscitated and and then whathis life looked like now.
So those those deeply humanstories that ripple out are just
it was exactly why we wrote thisbook.
And and it I I felt like thesestories were inside of me that
(12:34):
that I knew about, and then youknow, we just had to tell it.
And it was he it it was verylike I said, it was very special
not only to work with Ciara overthis last year, but it was it
was as we as this story startedto develop, and and of course
the same thing.
I'm thinking, like, I've beentelling some of these stories
for years, but now all of asudden we started telling some
(12:54):
strangers and and that wereinvolved in the publishing
process.
Uh and at one point we're at ameeting with a couple of folks
from the publishing company, andwe're showing them a promo video
of what we did, and they'recrying.
And we're like, oh boy, this iswe we did we knew we had
something special.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Yeah.
And I I want to touch on thosestories that you mentioned too,
especially the the Neil and Richstory, because you had you had
asked about trauma, and both ofthose stories, the John Lee,
where the the kid who the boywho drowned in the lake, and and
the Neil and Rich, the one whosaved his brother firefighter in
the firehouse, both of themdiscuss and and we don't go into
(13:34):
depth about it, but i if youlook for it, it is touched upon.
They both discuss PTSD, andthey're both in very different
ways, too.
For Neil and Rich, Neil, again,it was his second day on the
job, and he had found one of hisbrethren firefighters dead in
the bedroom, and he had goneinto the apparatus bay, and he
(13:56):
spoke about it in a way that wasjust so emotionally compelling.
And he said, I walked in to abunch of people who didn't know
what I knew.
And so then he later on, afterafter the call had gone through,
and his captain had looked athim and said, You need to see
this call through.
You need to see this callthrough.
(14:17):
You need to be in the back ofthe ambulance to deliver him to
the hospital, and you need tosee him drop get dropped off
alive.
And he had discussed how he wasoutside the hospital and he just
wasn't dealing with it well.
And his captain had gone to himand said, You need to speak to
the the chaplain.
And this was 15 years ago,almost about so when he had said
(14:41):
that to me, I I had studiedpsychology in college and it it
threw up red flags, right?
When you when you say you'rehaving a to you're having a
tough time dealing with a callto go speak with the chaplain.
SPEAKER_03 (14:54):
Okay, so not even knowing if he was religious or
not.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I mean it was exactly it was it was it made me
chuckle a little bit, but it itjust showed so much of the the
culture shift that's happeningcurrently in EMS.
And I think it's definitely beenwithin the past five to ten
years that your generation andmy generation have I I know that
there sometimes can be timeswhere Gen Z and some of the
(15:20):
older generations can clash withthe fact that a lot of people
who have been in this professionfor years think that the new
kids are trying to come in andkind of destroy everything
they've worked so hard for.
And I I think that the the shiftin mindset is coming from the
fact that Gen Z has never wantedto get rid of these things that
(15:45):
have been in place and and andGen Z doesn't really say what
you're doing is is bad.
We I think what we uh try to doconstantly is say we could be
better.
And so I think that's currentlyhappening in a lot of these
these professions and workforcesin this, and it's just so
evident in the fact that when hesaid that he had gone to the
(16:07):
chaplain to talk, it took meaback because that that doesn't
happen.
Now we have critical incidentmanagement systems and you know
mental mental healthprofessionals who come into
these like yourself who comeinto the departments and the
hospitals to try and help thesethese professionals who need
help.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
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Now, right back to the episode.
You guys just talked a lot, andI have about 400 things to add.
We shouldn't like just a series.
I you might be thinking I'mjoking, but it may be important
(17:41):
for us to think about doing aseries of all this because we
have two different generationsthat are able to understand what
truly needs to be done and theimportance of the saved effect
and what it does.
That's I re I did that in theERs, just people like, oh, you
helped my brother.
Like, that's great.
I don't remember your brother,but apparently that remember
people remember that stuff.
(18:02):
Two things you gotta mention youmentioned.
High school and CPR should bemandated in Massachusetts.
We are we're just trying to getpeople to college instead of
getting them real education forreal life.
That is my political statement.
You can read me if you want, ifyou want to.
My daughter is doing her, she'sdoing her at the tech school.
She already has her first aidCPR in biotech, and they're
(18:24):
gonna they're gonna renew itevery year until she's done.
And that's so important to me.
I learned how to do that toowhen I was in school, again in
French, but it's still valid.
You know, you talked about whatthe change happened 10 to 15
years ago.
I like to think that theGeneration Xers kind of pushed
in the BB boomers and said, Hey,we want ride-alongs.
We might not, we might becivilians, but we can help out
(18:44):
as a mental health counselor, asother people, and that changed
the value.
I remember starting inFramingham and the jail
diversion program, where youknow, I mentioned this on you
mentioned Joe earlier privately.
I was the hug a tug program.
Oh, you're gonna ride along,you're gonna give them a hug.
I'm like, no, I want to getsomeone who's mentally ill, the
treatment they deserve, ratherthan put them in jail.
(19:05):
I don't know, that sounds crazy,but nowadays it's common.
But at the time it was a crazythought process.
You know, I think that that'swhere the gen generation Xers
have accepted some good ideasfrom the past and say shh this
sucks, and then went on andsaid, Okay, this is better.
And generation Xers are a littlemore open, but they're still
resilient resistant to generatethe millennials and generation Z
(19:27):
about their ideas, but we'vebecome a lot more open to that.
But I'm not saying it's perfectby any stretch of the
imagination.
And let me add another thingthat you maybe you guys can do
this with your uh paramedicswhen you're doing in the schools
and even in the ERs.
Awards are so important, andwhat I mean by that is this
awards educate people for whathas to be done and what you can
(19:49):
do in the community to supportyour community.
We might be a country a countryof all for like the you know, be
the best you can be, blah, blah,blah.
But we're also a community andwe forget that.
And those awards bring back thecommunity.
And too many first responders,in particular, nurses and other
people, like they get thoseawards and get embarrassed or
they kind of like poo-poo it outof the way.
(20:11):
No, this is an education piecethat the media does in order to
move our like all this thesethings so that the community
gets it.
My neighbor who's elderly needsCPR.
I mean, okay, I haven't done myCPR in about five years, but I
do remember a little bit of it.
So, no, I there's a goodSamaritan law in Massachusetts
that'll protect me.
And until the firefighters orEMS or whoever gets there, I can
(20:34):
do something.
I think that one of the things Ihope you can educate people is
awards aren't a bad thing.
It's a great PR move for thecommunity to work with the
community because hey, no onegets out of here alive, number
one, and number two might aswell be there for each other
because no one's getting out ofhere alive, right?
One of the things you didn't wedidn't mention, I want to
mention, and I asked because yousaid, you know, I was listening
(20:56):
to you, Kira, and I laughedbecause oh dad, you're being too
nice or you're just saying thatbecause I'm your daughter.
Actually, my experience withfirst responders and
firefighters is they're harderon their daughters and sons than
they are to the rest of thefight.
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
But I think I think that it's in different aspects
of life, too.
I obviously every time I have abig accomplishment, he's one of
my number one supporters.
And but it is funny because youtold a story the other day about
how growing up when we would gethurt, right, they have both of
my parents have these pastexperiences where they kind of
(21:35):
determine the severity of asituation based on their past
experiences.
And so if we were to, you know,break a bone or or get hurt in
another way, then that would bethe the suck it up attitude.
Because if we could walk and wecould talk and we were
breathing, we were fine.
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
It can't be that bad.
I I'm with you, Brad.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean that, youknow, it is funny because Kira's
sister Bridget, she her her wewe grew they grew up watching
American Idol.
And let's not get anybody,neither one of them can sing,
right?
They just can't.
And and they're like, Dad, wewant to be on American Idol.
I was like, I'm sorry, girls,that's just not possible.
(22:15):
You just don't have that voicefor that.
And my wife's saying to me, Oh,that's harsh.
I'm like, no, no, no.
Somebody's got to tell them.
How many people have we seen onAmerican Idol who get up there
and you're like, oh my goodness,like, where are their parents?
How come they're not beingtruthful?
Why are they allowing thatperson to get up there?
You know, poor Simon's tellingthem the truth, and everybody
hates that guy.
But but I I do think that you'reonto something.
(22:36):
And and I will say, Kira isincredibly insightful, and there
are times that I have 100%listened to her, right?
Because she she brings anargument.
And oh boy, do I bring anargument.
And I don't I don't just meanlike yelling and screaming.
I'm talking about academic,right?
I mean, you think about thedifference between you know us
(22:58):
and say Gen Zars.
You know, Kira wanted to takeher best friend across the
street who she grew up withsince she was literally an
infant to school every day,right?
And uh with with their vehicle,and we said, oh no, no, you
cannot have any kids invehicles, right?
Like this is just not gonnahappen.
Kira goes out, searched theinternet, finds a study that
(23:19):
shows that teenagers who have uhother teenagers in the car are
more safe.
And literally presents this atthe dinner table to my wife and
I.
We're like, okay, this is whatit happens when you have smart
kids.
Like that, you know, but youhave to listen, as a as a
reason, you know, as a I I havea graduate degree, right?
At one point doing research, youhave to accept the null, right?
So we you you know, it might notbe your opinion.
(23:42):
But I will say, you know, Kira'snot only during this process,
but even before, like we changedour whole the way we teach EMTs
here based on the feedback thatKira gave us as a Gen Zer and
the way that we produce our ourvideos and the way that we
produce our content, because wealso know that these are the
these are our students.
And so she she came to me andsaid, Dad, I can't sit through
(24:04):
these long lectures.
SPEAKER_01 (24:06):
They were three and a half hours long and they all
talked like this for the sameamount of time, and no there was
no uh difference in it.
It was so monotone and no hateto the instructors because they
did a wonderful job teaching.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
What's that?
I'm sorry, I fell asleep whileyou were saying exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
But but our generation, my generation is is
on TikTok.
We watched 30-second clips, andthat can barely hold our
attention before we're swipingto the next one, and we're just
looking for that dopamine rush,really.
SPEAKER_03 (24:33):
So we went out and built this amazing EMT program
around some of the feedback thatwe were getting from our
students.
We did a bunch of research,looked at the way we keep
attention, looked at cameraangles, the way we move camera
angles, everything that wouldkeep attention from the student,
but then then also through thatstorytelling, too, as well.
And I'm not talking about warstories, I'm talking about can
(24:55):
you connect stories to tolearning?
And that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
And I think that's so important.
I I joke around about I'm thesame way.
I can't listen to people droneon for like Yeah.
Like Charlie Brown's teacher.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
Well, that that really remarksyour age because I'm sure it
happened with people listeninggoing, who the hell is that?
But I think it's also veryimportant that you listen to
each other.
One of the misconceptions I findthat happens in these debates of
(25:21):
generation X versus Generation Zversus baby boomers.
I mean, we did the best we canwe could with what we had.
The real important part is thatI think that you need to be able
to say as a generation Xer, I'mgonna learn from millennials,
I'm gonna learn from Gen Z, I'mgonna learn from whatever
generation alpha now is comingup, whatever the hell it is.
(25:42):
But the point is, is I think thedifference is some people like,
no, this is what I know, this iswhat I stick to.
Well, maybe what you know thenwork 30 years ago, it's not
gonna work today.
And that's important to realizethat yeah, it did work, but it
no longer it is no longerworking with the generation we
have.
I think that for me, the reasonwhy I want to highlight a little
bit, not only here for your bookhere, one of the things that my
(26:03):
audience always talks about iswhat's the dynamics at home, you
know, families and all that.
So that's why I really want tobring that up because you're you
brought something, Kira, that Ithink is so needed.
I still think that the didacticuh treatment of paramedic
schools is still a littleoutdated, not necessarily yours,
but some others where askingkids to sit in front of a video
(26:25):
for three hours of like boringstuff, they're on their phone,
they didn't pay attention, loand behold, they go to paramedic
task and they fail.
Because why?
They didn't listen to half theshit because they got bored.
SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
And they used Quizlet.
SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
Yeah.
And I think that that's whereyou know, listening to everyone
and what they bring as valuableis is so that it's so important
to hear.
And like I really appreciatethat.
That's why I was asking aboutthat dynamic, because I think
that this is something thatevery person needs to hear.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
On the flip side of that, too.
I think that because you hadmentioned that Gen X can't
really just put push these theseyounger generations aside and
cast them away.
I I do think that there havebeen many times I have been
wrong and my dad has been right,but I I do think as Gen Zers who
it's recorded, Brad.
SPEAKER_03 (27:12):
I'm not thinking.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Can we just get that clip?
I'm gonna play it.
You're good.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
I I think that as Gen Zers, we can kind of just
look at our parents and or orolder generations in general and
just say, okay, you know, rollour eyes and and cast you guys
aside too.
But you you guys are the oneswho have the experiences in
life, and and you can teach usso many things.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
So well, when you think about the saved effect,
I'm gonna just jump jump in.
Your dad's experience isvaluable to you, but you've got
some of it that's no longervalid to you.
That doesn't mean that's not allvalid, just means some of it
isn't.
And for the same thing, hearingyour gener your younger
generation as a generationexpert, sometimes I listen to
your stuff about it's that I'mlike, that's not valuable to me.
(27:59):
But then I hear about how tolearn, how to perceive things,
how to work with people.
I'm like, oh shit, these aregood ideas.
So I think it's not being one orthe other, it's really being in
between and started to bring intherapy here and bringing a
little bit of that middle groundprocess, but that middle ground
process so essential because I Iremember that I was 20 and I
knew everything.
(28:20):
Not that I'm 50, I know what Iknow fits in a thimble in the
size of this room now, andrealizing that is helpful for us
to hear other people versussaying you know everything.
SPEAKER_03 (28:30):
Sure, the Dunning-Kruger effect, right?
SPEAKER_02 (28:33):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, or is it is it Socrates too?
Was Socrates the one who knowsnothing?
Or I could be, I think that I'mwrong.
One of the philosophers.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Yeah, I'm one of the philosophers.
We'll we'll say Socrates.
No one's gonna check, no, noone's gonna fact check us.
Oh, wait a minute.
Your generation will actually.
That is true.
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
Yeah, yeah, they will.
But I uh one one comment I dowant to make about today's
generation is is that we here atour school see the youth of
America.
And I'm incredibly proud ofthose men and women that are
coming into our profession andwilling to serve.
Many of them, their future isbright, so our future is bright.
(29:10):
They have this unquenched thirstfor knowledge, they have a
curiosity that that forces themto go out and and make their own
research on whatever it is.
You know, one of the things weteach here is, you know, what's
the problem, why is ithappening, what can I do about
it, right?
Like so from thepathophysiological level, of if
they don't understand why it'shappening, they can't understand
the treatment modalities thatthey're gonna they need to use.
(29:33):
And then what, you know, Ialways like to ask a question of
like, when you push the plungeron that medication, what's gonna
happen?
And it takes a level ofcuriosity and a level of
commitment to education that Idefinitely see in in in our
younger students.
So I I think we have a lot ofpromise ahead of us.
And this generation, they get abad rap.
Some of some individuals, wecan't blanket them.
(29:55):
There are some individuals whoprobably deserve it, right?
But our our generation too hasindividuals where we deserve
some of that that negative youknow connotations too.
So I I'm very, very hopeful, andI see that Youth of America of
today, and and and I love whatI'm seeing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
I had a question I wanted to ask, but I'm gonna
change it up because this is sopertinent.
Uh I'll ask both of you the samething.
So from your generation to youknow the other generation that's
sitting at the table here.
What's the one thing they needto hear from the other
generation?
They need to hear, not just likethey got to hear and understand,
not just like perceive.
(30:33):
What would a generation uh Zperson say to a generation Xer
that needs to learn?
And vice versa, what doesGeneration X has to say to Gen Z
that they have to learn?
I think it's a great question,particularly in the first
responder world, because it'sbecome an us versus them
mentality, and I'm like I'm donewith that stuff.
I I there's no us versus them,there's there's a unity, and we
(30:55):
all like again, maybe I'm toodark, but we all end up at the
same place, so might as wellwork together.
SPEAKER_03 (31:01):
But it's dark in that place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
Yeah.
So what would what do you thinkthat Generation X has to learn
maybe from a generation Z, so tospeak, uh, Kira?
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
I would say and and I I don't want to blanket this
to absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
It's made to be a blanket statement that doesn't,
if it doesn't touch you, itdoesn't go for you.
It's just a gener we're justtalking.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Change is okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
Okay, that's a good statement.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I I think that there's gonna be a lot of change
coming up in a lot of aspects ofall professions and and all
generations, and we have to beadaptable to the future, or else
if we stay in the past, then nogood will ever come from it.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
You live in the past, man.
I'm sorry.
To quote something.
Brad, what what does GenerationX have to teach Generation Z or
what does Generation Z need tohear from Generation X?
SPEAKER_03 (31:56):
Experience matters.
And I think that the experiencesthat we have had in in our
generation, uh particularlyaround fire and EMS, you know,
is that uh my 40 years in fireand EMS uh m gives me a view of
the world and through definitelythrough experiences.
And when when you're makingdecisions, you go back to you
(32:18):
know uh uh psychology ofdecision making, right?
You know, Gary Klein's theory ofrecognition prime decision
making.
Experience matters.
I think sometimes the theyounger generation doesn't
appreciate that thoseexperiences that that the older
generation went through helpshape the way that they see the
world, the way that they see thenext call, the way that they
(32:39):
make a decision.
And and and they might notappreciate that those
experiences do matter in the waythat I I I've said it so many
times.
I wish I could I wish I had aUSB port where I could unzip,
you know, all the experiences,zip them up, and then hand them
over to to that student, tothat, you know, to our new
(33:00):
cadet, our new trainee, and andgive them all of them.
But I I don't believe that Ithink you have to have lived
experiences because in my mind,experiences are visceral, right?
There's emotions get that gettied to an experience.
And that's what solidifies thoseexperiences for you to help you
(33:21):
make higher level cognitivedecisions, maybe even in
extremis uh in the future.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
So we gotta be willing to learn and be willing
to change.
And I think that's a greatlesson for all of us in in all
the f the EMS worldparticularly.
I think therapists need tounderstand that too, because
that's life.
But I think that's great advice.
I want to finish on this.
I want to you guys be able totell me where I can get the
saved effect and how I get myI'm gonna get my personal signed
(33:51):
copy, personally, but where do Igo?
SPEAKER_03 (33:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (33:55):
Where do where can people find that?
I'm gonna definitely link it inthe show notes too.
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
So probably the best place to start is the saved
effect.com.
If you go to our website, weactually have it from there
it'll link out to wherever youbuy books, whether it be Amazon,
Barnes and Noble, it's it'severywhere.
And so even if you just Googlethe Save Effect, you would find
it.
But I think if you start off onour website, thesavedeffect.com,
you can come back to ourwebsite.
(34:20):
And if you buy it now, then wehave a package in pre-sale
because the book doesn'tphysically release until August
18th.
However, in pre-sale right now,if you buy it, you're gonna get
not only the the PDF of our ourthe transcript, the manuscript
is gonna we're gonna send you aPDF right away.
And we're also gonna send youthe audiobook for the pre-sale
(34:42):
that Kira and I just recorded.
And that's not gonna be thefinal audio book that'll be for
sale, because we are producingone, but something that Kira and
I wanted to give to all of thosefolks that that joined our
mission in the very beginninghere in a pre-launch before we
get there.
So if if also you can follow uson the save effect in in both on
(35:03):
TikTok and Twitter and notTwitter, I'm sorry, not Twitter.
SPEAKER_01 (35:06):
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and then our personals
are just our names, KiraNewberry and Brad Newberry on
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
And I'm gonna link all that in the show notes for
everyone to go see.
I will be getting my own copywhen it comes out.
Absolutely.
Now I'm now I'm super excited tohear the audiobook too, so I'm
gonna be doing that.
But from the bottom of my heart,I I I know that you probably
hear this a lot.
You've probably done a fewpodcasts at this point.
Please come back.
I would love to hear more aboutyour stories because I think the
(35:38):
we don't need to treat differentgeneration as a clash.
And I think that you guys are agreat example.
And that within families, we canstill be supportive yet
challenge each other.
I mean, within the firstresponder world, not just
challenge each other or pusheach other away, which
unfortunately happens more oftenthan not.
So I want to thank you for yourtime and your candor, and I hope
you do come back soon.
SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having us.
This has been a greatconversation.
Really enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Yes, we'll definitely have to come back
because we have way more to talkabout.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
I I can't wait to talk about a lot of different
things.
So I've got like a whole sheethere, but um I wanna I want to
thank everyone for listening,and I hope you come back for the
next episode.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to theprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(36:41):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.