January 23, 2026 • 29 mins
In part 2, the calls keep coming, but the solutions don’t. We sit down with crisis clinician and EMDR therapist Morgan Yaskus to trace how a frayed safety net pushes first responders into impossible roles—and how that mismatch breeds moral injury. From long drives to the nearest DMV or ER to midnight discharges with no plan, we map the structural barriers that turn compassion into exhaustion and good intentions into public criticism.
Morgan shares what mobile crisis teams can do well—resolving most calls on scene, staying with families after deaths, and offering a humane handoff—and where policy still ties everyone’s hands. We talk about the revolving door of brief psychiatric evaluations, the bureaucratic maze of IDs and benefits, and the social media spotlight that amplifies one bad moment over a hundred quiet saves. Small towns feel this even harder: everyone knows everyone, scanners travel fast, and rumors outrun the facts.
We also get practical. Morgan explains how EMDR intensives can speed recovery from single‑incident trauma, why embedded wellness trainings reduce stigma, and how family wellness programs give spouses and kids tools to navigate shift work, hypervigilance, and communication breakdowns. The theme isn’t “do more with less.” It’s “build a system that holds what responders are asked to carry,” with warm handoffs, guaranteed short holds, transport support, and streamlined ID recovery to break the cycle.
If you care about first responder mental health, this conversation is a map and a motivator. Listen, share with your team, and send this to someone who thinks burnout is a willpower issue. Then tap follow, leave a quick review to help others find the show, and tell us: what single policy change would make the biggest difference where you live?
To contact Morgan, go to her website at www.bewildandrooted.com
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.ai.
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(01:59):
I really enjoy our conversationso far.
I hope you're enjoying it too.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
It's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Well, Morgan Yaskis.
I want to introduce you in casepeople didn't catch the first
part.
This is part two.
I know that you worked on amobile crisis team.
You are now in private practice.
You work with first responders.
I think it's all importantstuff.
Uh I wonder how your career as acrisis clinician or I that's
what I called us when I was acrisis clinician, shaped uh how
(02:30):
now you treat first responders,how you treat your clients in
general, but particularly firstresponders nowadays.
And knowing about, you know,things like you know, the
systematic factors that gothrough a lot of things,
including administrationbetrayal for some of those guys,
because they can't really talkto anyone in their department
sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yeah.
I think, oh gosh, it's it'sreally a loaded question.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Oh, I know.
That's why you pay me a lot ofmoney to be on here so I can
send you a lot of loadedquestions.
She didn't pay me, folks.
She did not pay me.
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
You know, I I think on paper, crisis work looks very
noble, heroic, right?
And and in practice, it's notfor lack of a better word.
I think it's it's we're oftenbeing a buffer between suffering
and a system that's not built tohold it.
(03:21):
At least that and you know, thisis all speaking from my
experience here in Alaska.
And so in Alaska, I think thatthat's really magnified by the
lack of infrastructure and theisolation that we're working
with, geographically speaking.
And I think one of the mostfrustrating and heartbreaking
realities was how few realoptions exist, right?
So we had our first respondersand then we created mobile
(03:43):
crisis team, and we're like,this is gonna be so great.
We're gonna solve all of theAlaska's problems.
And then we did it.
Not to say we didn't do great.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Okay, but so you told me, wait a minute, this is
false advertising.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That's what's on the resume.
But you know, in the MatsuBorough, which which we talked
about earlier, it's a it's ahuge area, and we have we have
one homeless shelter.
One.
Wow.
And it's women's only domesticviolence shelter.
That's it for a borough that'slarger than some states.
(04:16):
So there often isn't a clear oravailable uh next step for a lot
of the individuals that we wereinteracting with.
And so we were experiencing thatas mobile crisis.
And I all I could think aboutwas like, good God, what did
these people do before weexisted?
Because at least what once wewere there, they were able to
(04:37):
hand off to us and we couldproblem solve this and they
could get back to what theiractual jobs were, which wasn't
this, right?
It's not case management orresource referral.
And so I think that that was abig piece of it was was I had
that question in mind of like,what did they do?
And you know, obviously I askedbecause I'm curious and I like
(04:58):
to talk.
Um, and and they were like,Well, we we didn't.
And but really, it wasn't thatwe didn't, it was that they
couldn't.
What could they do?
So these first responders arebeing called to these scenes
that are not medical or notcriminal related, and being told
to fix it and then you know,getting shit on on Facebook two
(05:20):
hours later when they don't.
And it's just this like toiletbull effect.
It's just so cyclical.
And the reality is like that'snot a problem that they could
solve.
And I think that the public wasoften missing that this isn't
about willpower.
You know, and and that goes forthe okay, I'm gonna paint a
(05:41):
picture here, as I like to do.
And that goes for the people,these individuals too, because I
remember hearing all the time,like, why don't why don't they
just stop using?
Why don't these people just geta job?
Why don't they just get clean?
Why don't they just findhousing?
But you're they're asking thewrong question because what
they're really asking, whetherthey realize it or not, is why
doesn't someone with no IDtransportation or support system
(06:04):
or place to sleep navigate thisbureaucratic labyrinth that
would frustrate even a fullyresourced person.
That's what we're really asking.
And so please cut me off at anypoint because I get really
heated about this, actually.
But to humor me, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
I want to hear it.
That's why I'm letting you talk.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Yeah.
Someone, someone experiencinghomelessness in Wasilla, which
is where I am, they want to geta job, but they need an ID.
Well, it was lost or stolen.
So now they need to go to DMV.
Well, guess what?
We don't have one here.
The next one's like 15 to 20miles away in a neighboring
town.
So they have to walk or findtransportation.
But also to get that, they needa social security card.
We don't have that here either.
So now you have to go toAnchorage, which is 40 miles
(06:42):
over 40 miles away.
Again, assuming they can findtransportation and get the
security card, but also you needa birth certificate to do that,
I'm pretty sure.
So you're gonna have to orderthat from Bible Statistics.
We also don't have one of thosehere, which costs money that you
probably don't have, takesseveral weeks and requires a
mailing address.
So where's where exactly is thatgonna be mailed to?
Right.
And I probably got the order ofthis all mixed up somewhere.
(07:03):
But I think you get the point,right?
Like this is a systemic issue,and it's horrible for the people
that you know the system'sreally working against, but it's
also horrible for those firstresponders that you know are are
trying to help these people, butit's so much bigger than that.
It's so much bigger than that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
It's a system that's broken.
I mean, I remember here in inMassachusetts, they would be
like, we can't send you socialsecurity or dis disability or
social security assistance oreven unemployment because you
don't have an address.
So get an address.
But to get an address, you gotto have revenue.
And if you don't have revenue,they don't want to give you an
(07:46):
address.
So you're fucking over yourpeople.
And that's that's not the cops'fault.
No, that's the legislationissue, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
And then and then those first responders that are
seeing these same people overand over again and know that
there's really nothing they cando to help.
It's not a lack of desire, atleast not from my experience.
And I think that's where thatmoral injury really takes root
is responders are asked to carryproblems that are literally
unsolvable within their scope.
(08:17):
And then and then they're theones who are blamed when it
doesn't work.
Why are these people still onthe streets?
Why is this still happening?
This is their job.
It's not, it's literally not.
And I think over time I've seenthat create and I felt it, this
like internal conflict.
But I'm trying to help because Ithink the reality is anybody
(08:38):
that steps into these firstresponder roles, they're they
were trying to help.
And then we became a part of themachine that keeps hurting
people.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
And so what do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
Right.
And and you know as much as Ido, you didn't even mention the
hospitals in your area, but I'massuming they're few between you
know, like the other part too isthe hospital system is a slave
to man uh the the the crappyhealth care management stuff.
So basically, like, oh, soyou're not suicidal anymore,
your meds haven't kicked in.
(09:10):
We don't care about that.
You're no longer suicidal.
Go home.
We'll give you a list oftherapists that may or may not
have openings, and you don'thave a phone to call any, but
anyway, I can go on and onmyself about these things.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean, uh for us, we have one, I mean,
technically, I think we havelike two hospitals, but one ER,
and it's again 15 miles fromwhere I live.
And I mean, with mobile crisis,it still exists.
I'm just not on the pigmentanymore.
But with with mobile crisis, ifsomebody was experiencing an
acute mental or behavioralhealth emergency, um, whether it
(09:43):
was like psychosis, suicidality,whatever it might be, before we
existed, the only option was tocall law enforcement or EMS to
transport that person to thehospital.
That's it.
That was the protocol, right?
And then we thought this wasgonna get better once mobile
crisis team existed.
And it did in terms of we wereable to leave, I want to say, I
don't remember the numbers forsure, but it was like 87,
(10:04):
somewhere around their percentof calls were resolved within
the community.
But there was still a chunk thatthat needed additional care that
we would transport to thehospital.
And we're hoping that by ourpresence of being there through
the triage and really sittingnext to these individuals, that
whole process that it would workbetter.
(10:24):
And it just didn't.
And again, like you were sayingearlier, like this, it's
actually it's a systemic issueand it's a policy issue because
we were doing for us, it's aTitle 47.
That's our involuntarycommitment.
But Alaska law doesn't evenguarantee a 24-hour psychiatric
hold if we do that.
So there were several times thatI would bring an individual in
(10:49):
and I'd be sitting with them andI would go to fill out paperwork
and give it to the right person.
And by the time I came back,which just doesn't take very
long, they'd be gettingdischarged.
And I'm like, hold on.
What do you mean?
And that happened more timesthan I can count.
(11:09):
And what was worse is when theywould, you know, they would
triage them and they would dolike an intake, whatever their
process was, and we would leavebecause we'd have another call.
And they would discharge thesepeople back to the exact same
circumstances with no connectionto care, no follow up follow-up
plan.
It's like 1 a.m.
(11:29):
in the middle of winter, and nowthey're 20 miles from where they
were to begin with.
What are we doing?
So then what do they do?
They call 911 again, or if theydon't, somebody else does
because they see this person onthe side of the road in the
middle of winter at 2 a.m.
And they call 911.
And then it's the sameresponders coming again.
And so it's like as theresponders, you're just feeling
(11:52):
like you're like resetting thecycle, knowing full well you're
gonna see the same person againin a couple hours or a couple of
days, maybe in worse shape, ornow more mistrust, mistrusting,
mistrustful, whatever the rightword is.
You know, and essentially movingfurther away from any kind of
stability, even though your onlygoal was to create stability by
doing this in the first place.
(12:12):
And so it's it's frustrating andit's heartbreaking.
And I think, like, you know,when you talk about moral
injury, that paints the pictureright there, because it's not
that they they don't care, thesystem ties their hands.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
I mean, you talk about distance, sometimes it's
just lack of a lack ofresources, period.
I I know in our area here in theMetro West of Boston, if you
don't get into a shelter whenit's cold or even warm, it
doesn't really matter by 7 p.m.
ish.
Luckily, some of them are 9p.m., but that's the latest.
(12:46):
If it's 11 p.m.
and you're homeless and theywant you to resolve that as a
police officer, a crisisclinician, usually both, uh
you're like, uh don't know.
There's a laundromat over there,you can sleep in there for until
tomorrow morning.
It's open 24 hours, but we havelack of resources too, because
(13:06):
uh we've also come to a point asa government where we don't
trust to give people theresources they need.
And that's a whole differentball of wax.
And I don't want to get into toomuch of that because people will
say, Oh, you're blaming oneparty.
No, I blame both parties.
I don't give a crap.
I'm not, I'm not, I don't favoranyone.
Uh but the b the bottom line isyou're right, and then the
(13:28):
police officer is still dealingwith it.
I mean, like, how many guys comein here and say, I really wanted
to help this homeless woman,this homeless man, this suicidal
man, suicidal woman?
Uh and they weren't able to, andthen two years down the road,
two months down the road,whatever the case the case may
be, they're they hung themselvesor they're found, you know, dead
on the side of the road becauseit was like 10 degrees the night
(13:50):
before.
It it's it's a systematic issue.
I don't I think Alaska has alittle harder.
I don't I'm not trying tocompare apples to oranges here.
Yeah, but nonetheless, I don'tthink it's that different across
the country.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
No, I I don't think it is.
And I think like with you know,when we were kind of talking
about what what are the uniquechallenges to Alaska, and I was
trying to think of my answer,and I was like, they're not
unique to Alaska, and actuallythat's the problem.
Like that's what I want to talkabout.
It's like it's not uniquebecause I think any people from
any state could listen to thisand relate to a part of it, and
(14:25):
that's the problem, right?
Like it's just so much biggerthan than I think we sometimes
want to admit that it is.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
I mean, uh, I've worked with therapists from
everywhere in the country.
Name it, I probably worked withone of them from one of the
states.
And yeah, same.
I was talking to someone fromIowa recently, and the same
thing that you just described,there's parts of Iowa where you
gotta drive 15 miles to get tothe hospital, and the hospital
says, Well, you know what?
It's been like 10 minutes therein the the the ambulance,
(14:55):
they're not suicidal anymore.
Let's prepare their dischargepapers.
And you're like, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait.
Now they're far away from theirhome, they don't have any
resources, and now they'repissed.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:07):
I think that there's so much that we can do in this
country to change things, but II don't want to at the risk of
being called a socialist, I justthink that we need to do
something for the community atsome point in time.
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Yeah, you know, I I something about what you said
just reminded me too of um, youknow, mobile crisis team was
created to to bridge the gaps.
That was our that was our goal.
And I, you know, I'm not sureexactly what it was that you
said that reminded me of this,but I remember having a
conversation with the firstresponder, and they were like,
mobile crisis team is the bestthing that that could have
(15:39):
happened to us.
And I was like, oh, I'm so gladyou think that.
But they had a very specificexample, which I thought was so
interesting because I would havenever thought of like this
having been our role.
But they're saying when theycalled us for loss of life
calls, that it was solife-changing for them to know
that when they walked away fromthe scene, that these
(16:01):
individuals were still going tobe cared for.
And I was like mind blownbecause I never really I have
been very lucky to notexperience that kind of loss in
my life.
And so I was a little naive toit.
But I'm like, what did you guysdo before?
Like this was mind blowing tome.
And then once I really thoughtabout it, they were like, yeah,
we would just have to we we'd bedoing CPR on this individual
(16:25):
with their whole family around.
Follow time of death, pack upand leave because we have more
calls to go on.
And I was like, that is horriblefor the family, of course.
But also these responders, likethey never, their the loop was
never closed.
And that's like where I waslike, how do you live like that?
Because I'm like, I need answersto everything all the time, like
all of the time.
(16:46):
And that was a big piece of itwas like we were able to not
complete the scene.
I don't know what you would say,but just be there longer and
provide real long-term resourcesand you know, just stay with
people until their family showedup, things like that.
It's a big state.
People are driving four hourssometimes.
And that gave a sense of peaceto these first responders in a
(17:09):
way where I'm like, that's notwhat we were created for.
That's not why our role existed,but it became such a beautiful
piece of the role that I thinkis worth highlighting for
because, like, yeah, when we'retalking about moral injury, like
mobile crisis was absolutelyable to bridge that gap a little
bit.
It didn't go away entirely, butI'm like, there's so much, so
(17:30):
many parts and pieces to being afirst responder that people
don't think about like that.
And and I mean, this was like ayear into me working in that
role, and I hadn't thought aboutit because I hadn't experienced
it.
Why would I?
Right.
And it's just there's there'sjust so many things like that
that I think, yes, what they dois it's is heroic, absolutely.
(17:53):
But what we're not seeing, uhthere's just so much that we're
not seeing that's a part of thistoo.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
I mean, I'm I had someone who was dispatched, and
that's recently on my podcast.
That's where we talked about.
It's like, you know, you get a911 call, you take care of the
call, and then oh yeah,officer's here, and then they
hang up and you don't knowwhat's happening because guess
what?
Phone's still ringing, stillneed the next phone call.
The other part too that reallystruck me in what you said is
(18:21):
that you know, police officerssometimes do want some sort of
closure.
We do get some closure by, youknow, sending someone home,
someone getting help in thehospital, getting arrested,
whatever.
There's always some closure, butit's not full closure sometimes.
And I think about particularlyagain, not only Alaska, and like
I said, we talked about earlier,probably across the country.
Um I know that some of thesmaller departments around here,
(18:44):
there's like sometimes two orthree officers for the whole
town or that we're in.
And it's those two to three guyswho end up like going to all
these calls, but they don't havetime for closure, they don't
have time for that.
They just move on, and the callsdon't stop because oh wait,
wait, no, Johnny's at the 27Hollis Street.
Okay, we'll we'll we'll wait tohave our crisis until he's done
(19:07):
with 27 Hollis Street.
It doesn't matter.
And so I think that's the otherpart too that I'm sure is a
challenge for you guys.
Not only is there's moral injuryand stuff like that, I think it
the guys also go like from callto call.
And it's like if they startbreaking down, it's not like
they can tag someone in.
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
I think too that you know it'sexactly what you just said.
It's there, there's I thinkthere is grief of being fully
conscious inside a structurelike this, right?
That that really only uhfunctions well if you're like
not paying attention to it.
Because when you're payingattention to it, you're
realizing it's not functioningvery well.
(19:44):
And so when you refuse to likedissociate from that, and when
you're staying awake and you'reconnected, it it does it starts
to take pieces of you.
I think it really does.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
I mean, we talked about it earlier.
It's a small community.
You probably know someone, andthen it starts like getting
Getting under your skin.
You go to the same call.
You've helped Johnny a couple oftimes or Jane.
And Jane, two years later, isfound dead because of you know
purposeful or you know.
Sorry, I'm not very good atsaying nice things here.
(20:16):
That m messes up you.
Like, oh, what did I do wrong?
Or what could I have done more?
Or, you know, like we forget howpersonal sometimes these police
officers take these things.
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't go away when the call
ends.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Especially not in a you know, in smaller towns.
I mean, this I think this istrue everywhere, but definitely
in smaller towns.
Because, like you said, likethere's tons of family relations
here.
There's everyone when tiesschool together.
Like, there's so muchconnectedness, which is really
beautiful and also makes it thatmuch harder sometimes.
And now we're in this era ofsocial media, so everything is
(20:51):
posted.
I don't know how it is for youguys, but I know like our law
enforcement radio channels areprivate, but our fire and EMS
ones aren't.
So that gets publ like publishedto Facebook so quick.
So quick.
Like you can't escape it even ifyou wanted to.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Not only that, I mean, around here, this is when
my big biggest pet peeve.
There's sirens going down MullenStreet.
Do you know what I'm saying?
No, I'm not a police officer.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
An emergency, that's what.
unknown (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Not a I'm not a police officer, not a
firefighter.
I don't know what the fuck'sgoing on.
How about you wait a little bit?
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
You'll find out when everyone else finds out.
It's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
In Massachusetts, there's something called the
police logs you can look at.
Look at the police the next day.
Yeah, but yeah, no, those arethe ones that drive me nuts.
I hear sirens on Mullen Street.
Yeah, that's probably becausethere's an emergency.
But you know what the emergencyis?
Yes, I do know, but I will notshare it with you.
Thank you.
I mean, that's the other part,too.
SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
Even if I knew, I'm not gonna share it.
So why like this is a sillyquestion?
I want you to think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
Yeah, social media has made people not only like
selfish, but they made themignorant sometimes.
And yes, I said that.
And if you want to fight me onit, please send me a message.
But I think that that's what itis.
Like when the ambulance goes bymy office, do you think I go, Oh
my god, I wonder where they'regoing?
I don't know where they'regoing.
I don't care.
If I need to really know, I'lllook tomorrow in the paper or
(22:20):
the next day when the policelogs come out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
And if it's relevant to me, I'll find out.
I will.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
They didn't come into my building, so I should be
I'm fine.
Yeah, you know, I think thatthat's the other part too, is
that the scrutiny that they gothrough.
I think that you talk aboutmoral injury, not only about but
even you know what's that what'sthat saying in business?
If you have a good experience,you may tell two to three
people.
If you have a bad experience,you're gonna tell nine to eleven
(22:46):
people.
And so the cop is tired or istrying to get to the next call,
and this wasn't their priority,and they got to kind of cut you
short and say, Hey, listen, youcan go to a court magistrate,
here's how you do it.
And they live he didn't payattention, didn't seem to care
about my problem.
Uh yeah, because the other onewas a murder, just for the
record.
You yeah, your little courtthing is not as important, but
(23:10):
you don't think about that,you're only thinking about your
own self-centered world.
I think that's the other moralinjury that happens with a lot
of police officers.
And I I've I forget to mentionmy firefighters, EMTs, and
paramedics here, but they're thesame boat.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah.
Well, I think you know, you yousaid it earlier, like the one
bad thing happens and it'sheadlines everywhere.
And I think that's even a biggerissue in the smaller towns
because everybody knowseverybody.
So as soon as one person evencatches when and it's on
Facebook and outshared a hundredtimes, and you can't escape it,
(23:44):
and you're seeing these peopleagain.
You're gonna see them again.
You can almost damn nearguarantee that.
And yeah, it's just likeconstant state of having to
defend yourself.
I'm like, these are the lastpeople that should have to do
that.
Not to say there's not badapples sometimes, sure.
Sure, but you could say thatabout any profession.
(24:05):
And you don't come after therest of them the way that you do
these guys, so or girls.
And I think, yeah, it's justit's so it's hard to watch.
It's really hard to watch, letalone, I'm sure, experiencing
it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Right.
I mean, like it's the argument.
If you listen to my podcast,you've heard me make this
argument.
You know, 95% of therapists wantto do their job, help people,
and hopefully go home andeverything goes hunky-dory.
The baker wants to make 95% ofthem want to make their bread,
not hurt anyone, and kind ofmove on.
But I forgot 5% on both of thosebecause 5% can are assholes.
(24:40):
And guess what?
Police is the same thing, fireis the same thing, but we
concentrate on the five percentin those particular jobs.
While in therapy, I can tell youhorrible stories about
therapists doing absolutelyunethical jobs.
Yeah, and that doesn't make itto the back page of anything,
(25:00):
and somehow that's okay.
But if a cop coughs the wrongway, let's put it on the front
page.
And again, not saying thatthey're all good cops, there's
about five percent I know thatare not good people, that's not
what I'm saying.
But it's like, why are we alwaysemphasizing the negative for
other people while wede-emphasize it in pretty much
every other population?
And that's another moral injurythat they face because you're
(25:21):
happy to see the cop when you'rein trouble, but when you do
something wrong, you're nothappy to see the cop.
How the hell do they win?
SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (25:29):
So, anyway, that's my little show myself.
I can go on and on about that.
But I would like I would ratherhear a little more about what
you do.
I mean, I I before the interviewwe were talking, fellow eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing therapists, emdr
for those who I don't I don'tlike to use acronyms because
that just makes it too fl uh tooI know better than you shit.
(25:53):
But I know you're an EMDRperson.
I know you do some wellnessworkshops.
So can you share a little bitabout all that?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I uh do I do EMDR in my in mytypical practice, but I also do
offer some EMDR intensives,which they are intense, they
are, but they're just they'relonger, right?
And so these sessions are idealfor people who maybe don't want
to commit to like long-termweekly therapy.
And they're they're they're morefocused, they're more efficient,
(26:19):
and they're more tailored reallyto to more like single incident
traumas, things like that.
And so I do offer those.
I also offer, yeah, wellnesstrainings and partnered with our
EMS department out here.
So next next month, actually,I'll be there for a week doing
some wellness workshops andtrainings.
And my my doctorate, I talked alittle bit about, and I think it
(26:42):
was in the last episode, butit's in community prevention,
intervention, and advocacy.
And so my research and mydissertation in capstone are is
all around creating familywellness for first responders,
family wellness programs andinitiatives.
Because, you know, we've talkeda lot about first responders and
what they experience.
(27:02):
But what we haven't touched onat all actually is what the
family experience is also.
Right.
And so I think that's somethingthat I've just noticed that
there's a gap that I really,really want to work to fill.
And I have these relationshipsbuilt with our first responders
here.
And so I think it's just anopportunity that I don't want to
pass up.
And so hopefully that'll be uhcoming soon in the future, too.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Well, I agree with you.
And if you go back to a few ofmy podcasts, we talk about the
impact on partners and familiesin general because that's so
important in having that regularcommunication, particularly when
you have two people who are bothfirst responders who live in the
same house.
That communication is key.
So I definitely support thefamily stuff.
(27:48):
How do we reach you though?
How do we find you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Yeah, I uh can have you link my website, which is
bewildandre.com, and then I amon Instagram as well, and it's
wildandreed.wellness.
And so those are the two bestways.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Well, I'll definitely put that in the show
notes, and I'll definitely bepart of your following on those
things.
But I wanted to thank you.
I know that you have someone inyour life.
I I don't share people's storiesbecause it's not mine to share.
But you have someone who's inthe Massa who's from the
Massachusetts area and thefamilies around here.
So if you ever think about it,if you are ever around here and
(28:27):
you reach me out, reach out,I'll leave you my phone number.
Please come and see me.
Love to talk to you face toface.
It'd be great.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Yeah, I'll be in the area in like a couple weeks,
actually, which it'll be duringthe holidays.
That might be a crazy time.
But if not, then in the summer,I think it'd be great.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
And I will not ask you to go do the touristy shit
in Boston, I promise.
SPEAKER_02 (28:47):
Oh, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
I'll bring you to uh the Sturbridge Village or
something a little more rustic.
That'll give you a lot more.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Oh, I don't know what that is, but it sounds
cool.
So I'll take you up on it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
All right.
Well, I I and it's a sincereinvitation, by the way.
Love would love to meet you andyour your loved one that has
family around here.
It'd be great.
But I want to thank you forbeing part of Resilience
Development in Action, and Iwill talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
And for those of you who are listening, still looking
forward to seeing you forepisode 241, and I hope you join
us then.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(29:47):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action
with Steve Bisson.
This is the podcast dedicated tofirst responder mental health,
helping police, fire, EMS,dispatchers, and paramedics
create better growthenvironments for themselves and
their teams.
Let's get started.ai.
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
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I really enjoy our conversationso far.
I hope you're enjoying it too.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
It's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Well, Morgan Yaskis.
I want to introduce you in casepeople didn't catch the first
part.
This is part two.
I know that you worked on amobile crisis team.
You are now in private practice.
You work with first responders.
I think it's all importantstuff.
Uh I wonder how your career as acrisis clinician or I that's
what I called us when I was acrisis clinician, shaped uh how
(02:30):
now you treat first responders,how you treat your clients in
general, but particularly firstresponders nowadays.
And knowing about, you know,things like you know, the
systematic factors that gothrough a lot of things,
including administrationbetrayal for some of those guys,
because they can't really talkto anyone in their department
sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yeah.
I think, oh gosh, it's it'sreally a loaded question.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Oh, I know.
That's why you pay me a lot ofmoney to be on here so I can
send you a lot of loadedquestions.
She didn't pay me, folks.
She did not pay me.
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
You know, I I think on paper, crisis work looks very
noble, heroic, right?
And and in practice, it's notfor lack of a better word.
I think it's it's we're oftenbeing a buffer between suffering
and a system that's not built tohold it.
(03:21):
At least that and you know, thisis all speaking from my
experience here in Alaska.
And so in Alaska, I think thatthat's really magnified by the
lack of infrastructure and theisolation that we're working
with, geographically speaking.
And I think one of the mostfrustrating and heartbreaking
realities was how few realoptions exist, right?
So we had our first respondersand then we created mobile
(03:43):
crisis team, and we're like,this is gonna be so great.
We're gonna solve all of theAlaska's problems.
And then we did it.
Not to say we didn't do great.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Okay, but so you told me, wait a minute, this is
false advertising.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That's what's on the resume.
But you know, in the MatsuBorough, which which we talked
about earlier, it's a it's ahuge area, and we have we have
one homeless shelter.
One.
Wow.
And it's women's only domesticviolence shelter.
That's it for a borough that'slarger than some states.
(04:16):
So there often isn't a clear oravailable uh next step for a lot
of the individuals that we wereinteracting with.
And so we were experiencing thatas mobile crisis.
And I all I could think aboutwas like, good God, what did
these people do before weexisted?
Because at least what once wewere there, they were able to
(04:37):
hand off to us and we couldproblem solve this and they
could get back to what theiractual jobs were, which wasn't
this, right?
It's not case management orresource referral.
And so I think that that was abig piece of it was was I had
that question in mind of like,what did they do?
And you know, obviously I askedbecause I'm curious and I like
(04:58):
to talk.
Um, and and they were like,Well, we we didn't.
And but really, it wasn't thatwe didn't, it was that they
couldn't.
What could they do?
So these first responders arebeing called to these scenes
that are not medical or notcriminal related, and being told
to fix it and then you know,getting shit on on Facebook two
(05:20):
hours later when they don't.
And it's just this like toiletbull effect.
It's just so cyclical.
And the reality is like that'snot a problem that they could
solve.
And I think that the public wasoften missing that this isn't
about willpower.
You know, and and that goes forthe okay, I'm gonna paint a
(05:41):
picture here, as I like to do.
And that goes for the people,these individuals too, because I
remember hearing all the time,like, why don't why don't they
just stop using?
Why don't these people just geta job?
Why don't they just get clean?
Why don't they just findhousing?
But you're they're asking thewrong question because what
they're really asking, whetherthey realize it or not, is why
doesn't someone with no IDtransportation or support system
(06:04):
or place to sleep navigate thisbureaucratic labyrinth that
would frustrate even a fullyresourced person.
That's what we're really asking.
And so please cut me off at anypoint because I get really
heated about this, actually.
But to humor me, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
I want to hear it.
That's why I'm letting you talk.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Yeah.
Someone, someone experiencinghomelessness in Wasilla, which
is where I am, they want to geta job, but they need an ID.
Well, it was lost or stolen.
So now they need to go to DMV.
Well, guess what?
We don't have one here.
The next one's like 15 to 20miles away in a neighboring
town.
So they have to walk or findtransportation.
But also to get that, they needa social security card.
We don't have that here either.
So now you have to go toAnchorage, which is 40 miles
(06:42):
over 40 miles away.
Again, assuming they can findtransportation and get the
security card, but also you needa birth certificate to do that,
I'm pretty sure.
So you're gonna have to orderthat from Bible Statistics.
We also don't have one of thosehere, which costs money that you
probably don't have, takesseveral weeks and requires a
mailing address.
So where's where exactly is thatgonna be mailed to?
Right.
And I probably got the order ofthis all mixed up somewhere.
(07:03):
But I think you get the point,right?
Like this is a systemic issue,and it's horrible for the people
that you know the system'sreally working against, but it's
also horrible for those firstresponders that you know are are
trying to help these people, butit's so much bigger than that.
It's so much bigger than that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
It's a system that's broken.
I mean, I remember here in inMassachusetts, they would be
like, we can't send you socialsecurity or dis disability or
social security assistance oreven unemployment because you
don't have an address.
So get an address.
But to get an address, you gotto have revenue.
And if you don't have revenue,they don't want to give you an
(07:46):
address.
So you're fucking over yourpeople.
And that's that's not the cops'fault.
No, that's the legislationissue, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
And then and then those first responders that are
seeing these same people overand over again and know that
there's really nothing they cando to help.
It's not a lack of desire, atleast not from my experience.
And I think that's where thatmoral injury really takes root
is responders are asked to carryproblems that are literally
unsolvable within their scope.
(08:17):
And then and then they're theones who are blamed when it
doesn't work.
Why are these people still onthe streets?
Why is this still happening?
This is their job.
It's not, it's literally not.
And I think over time I've seenthat create and I felt it, this
like internal conflict.
But I'm trying to help because Ithink the reality is anybody
(08:38):
that steps into these firstresponder roles, they're they
were trying to help.
And then we became a part of themachine that keeps hurting
people.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
And so what do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
Right.
And and you know as much as Ido, you didn't even mention the
hospitals in your area, but I'massuming they're few between you
know, like the other part too isthe hospital system is a slave
to man uh the the the crappyhealth care management stuff.
So basically, like, oh, soyou're not suicidal anymore,
your meds haven't kicked in.
(09:10):
We don't care about that.
You're no longer suicidal.
Go home.
We'll give you a list oftherapists that may or may not
have openings, and you don'thave a phone to call any, but
anyway, I can go on and onmyself about these things.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean, uh for us, we have one, I mean,
technically, I think we havelike two hospitals, but one ER,
and it's again 15 miles fromwhere I live.
And I mean, with mobile crisis,it still exists.
I'm just not on the pigmentanymore.
But with with mobile crisis, ifsomebody was experiencing an
acute mental or behavioralhealth emergency, um, whether it
(09:43):
was like psychosis, suicidality,whatever it might be, before we
existed, the only option was tocall law enforcement or EMS to
transport that person to thehospital.
That's it.
That was the protocol, right?
And then we thought this wasgonna get better once mobile
crisis team existed.
And it did in terms of we wereable to leave, I want to say, I
don't remember the numbers forsure, but it was like 87,
(10:04):
somewhere around their percentof calls were resolved within
the community.
But there was still a chunk thatthat needed additional care that
we would transport to thehospital.
And we're hoping that by ourpresence of being there through
the triage and really sittingnext to these individuals, that
whole process that it would workbetter.
(10:24):
And it just didn't.
And again, like you were sayingearlier, like this, it's
actually it's a systemic issueand it's a policy issue because
we were doing for us, it's aTitle 47.
That's our involuntarycommitment.
But Alaska law doesn't evenguarantee a 24-hour psychiatric
hold if we do that.
So there were several times thatI would bring an individual in
(10:49):
and I'd be sitting with them andI would go to fill out paperwork
and give it to the right person.
And by the time I came back,which just doesn't take very
long, they'd be gettingdischarged.
And I'm like, hold on.
What do you mean?
And that happened more timesthan I can count.
(11:09):
And what was worse is when theywould, you know, they would
triage them and they would dolike an intake, whatever their
process was, and we would leavebecause we'd have another call.
And they would discharge thesepeople back to the exact same
circumstances with no connectionto care, no follow up follow-up
plan.
It's like 1 a.m.
(11:29):
in the middle of winter, and nowthey're 20 miles from where they
were to begin with.
What are we doing?
So then what do they do?
They call 911 again, or if theydon't, somebody else does
because they see this person onthe side of the road in the
middle of winter at 2 a.m.
And they call 911.
And then it's the sameresponders coming again.
And so it's like as theresponders, you're just feeling
(11:52):
like you're like resetting thecycle, knowing full well you're
gonna see the same person againin a couple hours or a couple of
days, maybe in worse shape, ornow more mistrust, mistrusting,
mistrustful, whatever the rightword is.
You know, and essentially movingfurther away from any kind of
stability, even though your onlygoal was to create stability by
doing this in the first place.
(12:12):
And so it's it's frustrating andit's heartbreaking.
And I think, like, you know,when you talk about moral
injury, that paints the pictureright there, because it's not
that they they don't care, thesystem ties their hands.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
I mean, you talk about distance, sometimes it's
just lack of a lack ofresources, period.
I I know in our area here in theMetro West of Boston, if you
don't get into a shelter whenit's cold or even warm, it
doesn't really matter by 7 p.m.
ish.
Luckily, some of them are 9p.m., but that's the latest.
(12:46):
If it's 11 p.m.
and you're homeless and theywant you to resolve that as a
police officer, a crisisclinician, usually both, uh
you're like, uh don't know.
There's a laundromat over there,you can sleep in there for until
tomorrow morning.
It's open 24 hours, but we havelack of resources too, because
(13:06):
uh we've also come to a point asa government where we don't
trust to give people theresources they need.
And that's a whole differentball of wax.
And I don't want to get into toomuch of that because people will
say, Oh, you're blaming oneparty.
No, I blame both parties.
I don't give a crap.
I'm not, I'm not, I don't favoranyone.
Uh but the b the bottom line isyou're right, and then the
(13:28):
police officer is still dealingwith it.
I mean, like, how many guys comein here and say, I really wanted
to help this homeless woman,this homeless man, this suicidal
man, suicidal woman?
Uh and they weren't able to, andthen two years down the road,
two months down the road,whatever the case the case may
be, they're they hung themselvesor they're found, you know, dead
on the side of the road becauseit was like 10 degrees the night
(13:50):
before.
It it's it's a systematic issue.
I don't I think Alaska has alittle harder.
I don't I'm not trying tocompare apples to oranges here.
Yeah, but nonetheless, I don'tthink it's that different across
the country.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
No, I I don't think it is.
And I think like with you know,when we were kind of talking
about what what are the uniquechallenges to Alaska, and I was
trying to think of my answer,and I was like, they're not
unique to Alaska, and actuallythat's the problem.
Like that's what I want to talkabout.
It's like it's not uniquebecause I think any people from
any state could listen to thisand relate to a part of it, and
(14:25):
that's the problem, right?
Like it's just so much biggerthan than I think we sometimes
want to admit that it is.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
I mean, uh, I've worked with therapists from
everywhere in the country.
Name it, I probably worked withone of them from one of the
states.
And yeah, same.
I was talking to someone fromIowa recently, and the same
thing that you just described,there's parts of Iowa where you
gotta drive 15 miles to get tothe hospital, and the hospital
says, Well, you know what?
It's been like 10 minutes therein the the the ambulance,
(14:55):
they're not suicidal anymore.
Let's prepare their dischargepapers.
And you're like, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait.
Now they're far away from theirhome, they don't have any
resources, and now they'repissed.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:07):
I think that there's so much that we can do in this
country to change things, but II don't want to at the risk of
being called a socialist, I justthink that we need to do
something for the community atsome point in time.
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Yeah, you know, I I something about what you said
just reminded me too of um, youknow, mobile crisis team was
created to to bridge the gaps.
That was our that was our goal.
And I, you know, I'm not sureexactly what it was that you
said that reminded me of this,but I remember having a
conversation with the firstresponder, and they were like,
mobile crisis team is the bestthing that that could have
(15:39):
happened to us.
And I was like, oh, I'm so gladyou think that.
But they had a very specificexample, which I thought was so
interesting because I would havenever thought of like this
having been our role.
But they're saying when theycalled us for loss of life
calls, that it was solife-changing for them to know
that when they walked away fromthe scene, that these
(16:01):
individuals were still going tobe cared for.
And I was like mind blownbecause I never really I have
been very lucky to notexperience that kind of loss in
my life.
And so I was a little naive toit.
But I'm like, what did you guysdo before?
Like this was mind blowing tome.
And then once I really thoughtabout it, they were like, yeah,
we would just have to we we'd bedoing CPR on this individual
(16:25):
with their whole family around.
Follow time of death, pack upand leave because we have more
calls to go on.
And I was like, that is horriblefor the family, of course.
But also these responders, likethey never, their the loop was
never closed.
And that's like where I waslike, how do you live like that?
Because I'm like, I need answersto everything all the time, like
all of the time.
(16:46):
And that was a big piece of itwas like we were able to not
complete the scene.
I don't know what you would say,but just be there longer and
provide real long-term resourcesand you know, just stay with
people until their family showedup, things like that.
It's a big state.
People are driving four hourssometimes.
And that gave a sense of peaceto these first responders in a
(17:09):
way where I'm like, that's notwhat we were created for.
That's not why our role existed,but it became such a beautiful
piece of the role that I thinkis worth highlighting for
because, like, yeah, when we'retalking about moral injury, like
mobile crisis was absolutelyable to bridge that gap a little
bit.
It didn't go away entirely, butI'm like, there's so much, so
(17:30):
many parts and pieces to being afirst responder that people
don't think about like that.
And and I mean, this was like ayear into me working in that
role, and I hadn't thought aboutit because I hadn't experienced
it.
Why would I?
Right.
And it's just there's there'sjust so many things like that
that I think, yes, what they dois it's is heroic, absolutely.
(17:53):
But what we're not seeing, uhthere's just so much that we're
not seeing that's a part of thistoo.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
I mean, I'm I had someone who was dispatched, and
that's recently on my podcast.
That's where we talked about.
It's like, you know, you get a911 call, you take care of the
call, and then oh yeah,officer's here, and then they
hang up and you don't knowwhat's happening because guess
what?
Phone's still ringing, stillneed the next phone call.
The other part too that reallystruck me in what you said is
(18:21):
that you know, police officerssometimes do want some sort of
closure.
We do get some closure by, youknow, sending someone home,
someone getting help in thehospital, getting arrested,
whatever.
There's always some closure, butit's not full closure sometimes.
And I think about particularlyagain, not only Alaska, and like
I said, we talked about earlier,probably across the country.
Um I know that some of thesmaller departments around here,
(18:44):
there's like sometimes two orthree officers for the whole
town or that we're in.
And it's those two to three guyswho end up like going to all
these calls, but they don't havetime for closure, they don't
have time for that.
They just move on, and the callsdon't stop because oh wait,
wait, no, Johnny's at the 27Hollis Street.
Okay, we'll we'll we'll wait tohave our crisis until he's done
(19:07):
with 27 Hollis Street.
It doesn't matter.
And so I think that's the otherpart too that I'm sure is a
challenge for you guys.
Not only is there's moral injuryand stuff like that, I think it
the guys also go like from callto call.
And it's like if they startbreaking down, it's not like
they can tag someone in.
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
I think too that you know it'sexactly what you just said.
It's there, there's I thinkthere is grief of being fully
conscious inside a structurelike this, right?
That that really only uhfunctions well if you're like
not paying attention to it.
Because when you're payingattention to it, you're
realizing it's not functioningvery well.
(19:44):
And so when you refuse to likedissociate from that, and when
you're staying awake and you'reconnected, it it does it starts
to take pieces of you.
I think it really does.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
I mean, we talked about it earlier.
It's a small community.
You probably know someone, andthen it starts like getting
Getting under your skin.
You go to the same call.
You've helped Johnny a couple oftimes or Jane.
And Jane, two years later, isfound dead because of you know
purposeful or you know.
Sorry, I'm not very good atsaying nice things here.
(20:16):
That m messes up you.
Like, oh, what did I do wrong?
Or what could I have done more?
Or, you know, like we forget howpersonal sometimes these police
officers take these things.
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't go away when the call
ends.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Especially not in a you know, in smaller towns.
I mean, this I think this istrue everywhere, but definitely
in smaller towns.
Because, like you said, likethere's tons of family relations
here.
There's everyone when tiesschool together.
Like, there's so muchconnectedness, which is really
beautiful and also makes it thatmuch harder sometimes.
And now we're in this era ofsocial media, so everything is
(20:51):
posted.
I don't know how it is for youguys, but I know like our law
enforcement radio channels areprivate, but our fire and EMS
ones aren't.
So that gets publ like publishedto Facebook so quick.
So quick.
Like you can't escape it even ifyou wanted to.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Not only that, I mean, around here, this is when
my big biggest pet peeve.
There's sirens going down MullenStreet.
Do you know what I'm saying?
No, I'm not a police officer.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
An emergency, that's what.
unknown (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Not a I'm not a police officer, not a
firefighter.
I don't know what the fuck'sgoing on.
How about you wait a little bit?
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
You'll find out when everyone else finds out.
It's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
In Massachusetts, there's something called the
police logs you can look at.
Look at the police the next day.
Yeah, but yeah, no, those arethe ones that drive me nuts.
I hear sirens on Mullen Street.
Yeah, that's probably becausethere's an emergency.
But you know what the emergencyis?
Yes, I do know, but I will notshare it with you.
Thank you.
I mean, that's the other part,too.
SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
Even if I knew, I'm not gonna share it.
So why like this is a sillyquestion?
I want you to think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
Yeah, social media has made people not only like
selfish, but they made themignorant sometimes.
And yes, I said that.
And if you want to fight me onit, please send me a message.
But I think that that's what itis.
Like when the ambulance goes bymy office, do you think I go, Oh
my god, I wonder where they'regoing?
I don't know where they'regoing.
I don't care.
If I need to really know, I'lllook tomorrow in the paper or
(22:20):
the next day when the policelogs come out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
And if it's relevant to me, I'll find out.
I will.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
They didn't come into my building, so I should be
I'm fine.
Yeah, you know, I think thatthat's the other part too, is
that the scrutiny that they gothrough.
I think that you talk aboutmoral injury, not only about but
even you know what's that what'sthat saying in business?
If you have a good experience,you may tell two to three
people.
If you have a bad experience,you're gonna tell nine to eleven
(22:46):
people.
And so the cop is tired or istrying to get to the next call,
and this wasn't their priority,and they got to kind of cut you
short and say, Hey, listen, youcan go to a court magistrate,
here's how you do it.
And they live he didn't payattention, didn't seem to care
about my problem.
Uh yeah, because the other onewas a murder, just for the
record.
You yeah, your little courtthing is not as important, but
(23:10):
you don't think about that,you're only thinking about your
own self-centered world.
I think that's the other moralinjury that happens with a lot
of police officers.
And I I've I forget to mentionmy firefighters, EMTs, and
paramedics here, but they're thesame boat.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah.
Well, I think you know, you yousaid it earlier, like the one
bad thing happens and it'sheadlines everywhere.
And I think that's even a biggerissue in the smaller towns
because everybody knowseverybody.
So as soon as one person evencatches when and it's on
Facebook and outshared a hundredtimes, and you can't escape it,
(23:44):
and you're seeing these peopleagain.
You're gonna see them again.
You can almost damn nearguarantee that.
And yeah, it's just likeconstant state of having to
defend yourself.
I'm like, these are the lastpeople that should have to do
that.
Not to say there's not badapples sometimes, sure.
Sure, but you could say thatabout any profession.
(24:05):
And you don't come after therest of them the way that you do
these guys, so or girls.
And I think, yeah, it's justit's so it's hard to watch.
It's really hard to watch, letalone, I'm sure, experiencing
it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Right.
I mean, like it's the argument.
If you listen to my podcast,you've heard me make this
argument.
You know, 95% of therapists wantto do their job, help people,
and hopefully go home andeverything goes hunky-dory.
The baker wants to make 95% ofthem want to make their bread,
not hurt anyone, and kind ofmove on.
But I forgot 5% on both of thosebecause 5% can are assholes.
(24:40):
And guess what?
Police is the same thing, fireis the same thing, but we
concentrate on the five percentin those particular jobs.
While in therapy, I can tell youhorrible stories about
therapists doing absolutelyunethical jobs.
Yeah, and that doesn't make itto the back page of anything,
(25:00):
and somehow that's okay.
But if a cop coughs the wrongway, let's put it on the front
page.
And again, not saying thatthey're all good cops, there's
about five percent I know thatare not good people, that's not
what I'm saying.
But it's like, why are we alwaysemphasizing the negative for
other people while wede-emphasize it in pretty much
every other population?
And that's another moral injurythat they face because you're
(25:21):
happy to see the cop when you'rein trouble, but when you do
something wrong, you're nothappy to see the cop.
How the hell do they win?
SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (25:29):
So, anyway, that's my little show myself.
I can go on and on about that.
But I would like I would ratherhear a little more about what
you do.
I mean, I I before the interviewwe were talking, fellow eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing therapists, emdr
for those who I don't I don'tlike to use acronyms because
that just makes it too fl uh tooI know better than you shit.
(25:53):
But I know you're an EMDRperson.
I know you do some wellnessworkshops.
So can you share a little bitabout all that?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I uh do I do EMDR in my in mytypical practice, but I also do
offer some EMDR intensives,which they are intense, they
are, but they're just they'relonger, right?
And so these sessions are idealfor people who maybe don't want
to commit to like long-termweekly therapy.
And they're they're they're morefocused, they're more efficient,
(26:19):
and they're more tailored reallyto to more like single incident
traumas, things like that.
And so I do offer those.
I also offer, yeah, wellnesstrainings and partnered with our
EMS department out here.
So next next month, actually,I'll be there for a week doing
some wellness workshops andtrainings.
And my my doctorate, I talked alittle bit about, and I think it
(26:42):
was in the last episode, butit's in community prevention,
intervention, and advocacy.
And so my research and mydissertation in capstone are is
all around creating familywellness for first responders,
family wellness programs andinitiatives.
Because, you know, we've talkeda lot about first responders and
what they experience.
(27:02):
But what we haven't touched onat all actually is what the
family experience is also.
Right.
And so I think that's somethingthat I've just noticed that
there's a gap that I really,really want to work to fill.
And I have these relationshipsbuilt with our first responders
here.
And so I think it's just anopportunity that I don't want to
pass up.
And so hopefully that'll be uhcoming soon in the future, too.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Well, I agree with you.
And if you go back to a few ofmy podcasts, we talk about the
impact on partners and familiesin general because that's so
important in having that regularcommunication, particularly when
you have two people who are bothfirst responders who live in the
same house.
That communication is key.
So I definitely support thefamily stuff.
(27:48):
How do we reach you though?
How do we find you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Yeah, I uh can have you link my website, which is
bewildandre.com, and then I amon Instagram as well, and it's
wildandreed.wellness.
And so those are the two bestways.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Well, I'll definitely put that in the show
notes, and I'll definitely bepart of your following on those
things.
But I wanted to thank you.
I know that you have someone inyour life.
I I don't share people's storiesbecause it's not mine to share.
But you have someone who's inthe Massa who's from the
Massachusetts area and thefamilies around here.
So if you ever think about it,if you are ever around here and
(28:27):
you reach me out, reach out,I'll leave you my phone number.
Please come and see me.
Love to talk to you face toface.
It'd be great.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Yeah, I'll be in the area in like a couple weeks,
actually, which it'll be duringthe holidays.
That might be a crazy time.
But if not, then in the summer,I think it'd be great.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
And I will not ask you to go do the touristy shit
in Boston, I promise.
SPEAKER_02 (28:47):
Oh, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
I'll bring you to uh the Sturbridge Village or
something a little more rustic.
That'll give you a lot more.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Oh, I don't know what that is, but it sounds
cool.
So I'll take you up on it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
All right.
Well, I I and it's a sincereinvitation, by the way.
Love would love to meet you andyour your loved one that has
family around here.
It'd be great.
But I want to thank you forbeing part of Resilience
Development in Action, and Iwill talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
And for those of you who are listening, still looking
forward to seeing you forepisode 241, and I hope you join
us then.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Please like, subscribe, and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful.
And as a reminder, this podcastis for informational,
educational, and entertainmentpurposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(29:47):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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