January 8, 2026 • 22 mins
Your law firm job posting is a sales letter, not an HR checkbox. Here's how to write one that actually attracts legal talent.
Most firms can't scale because they can't hire. We'll show you the system we used to build a 27-attorney team at Sterling Lawyers.
Rocket Clicks helped Sterling grow from $0 to $17MM using these exact hiring frameworks.
Job boards are basically Google from 1997, dumb search engines that are easy to hack if you're intentional. We'll walk you through the "Frank Test," why your state bar board might outperform Indeed, and how to write job descriptions that repel wrong-fit applicants before they waste your time.
Stop treating hiring like an HR task and start treating it like the sales function it actually is.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@karls.anthony
📝 Schedule a FREE Family Law Firm Audit: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Why Your Law Firm Job Posting Gets Ignored
2:08 - Choosing the Right Job Boards: Niche vs. Volume Play
4:07 - State Bar Websites: The Hidden Talent Goldmine
7:10 - Law School Job Fairs: Your Unfair Advantage
7:49 - Recruiting Is Sales: Change Your Mindset
8:26 - Writing Job Titles That Stop the Scroll
11:03 - Responsibilities That Sell the Role
15:04 - Keywords: Hack Job Board Search Engines
18:20 - Culture Fit: Attract and Repel on Purpose
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are your job listings failingto bring in the legal talent
your firm needs in today's digital age?
How you present your openingsonline can make all the difference.
In this episode,we share the best strategies for writing
and optimizing onlinejob listings to ensure you're attracting
top legal professionals.
(00:23):
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
your go to resource for familylaw owners looking to drive growth,
optimize operations,and boost profitability.
I am your host, Tyler Dolph.
I'm also the CEO of our law firm, onlymarketing agency called Rocket Clicks.
We specialize in helping family law firmsgrow through data
(00:45):
driven digital strategies and performancemarketing.
Today, I have with me Tony Karls,who is the co-founder of our very own
family law firm called Sterling Lawyersthat has grown to over 27 attorneys.
And we also have JP VanderLinden,who is our head of operations and client
service.
He has extensive experiencein people operations, specifically in
(01:08):
how legal firms can strategically leveragedigital platforms
to attract and retain the best talent.
Today, we're focusing onhow to maximize your online job listings
to attract top legal professionals,whether it's choosing the right platform
or optimizing your content.
We are going to give you practical tipsfor getting the most out of your job
postings.
(01:31):
All right guys, we are back.
Today we are focusing onhow to maximize your online jobless things
to attract legal professionals.
Whether it's choosing the right platformor optimizing your content.
We are going to give you practical tipsfor getting the most out of your job
postings.
And Tony,I know this is true for our law firm.
It's sterlingand something I hear from our clients
(01:52):
all the time isthat they need to find great talent.
You know, their oh,we don't want to turn up marketing
because we don't have the capacitybecause we're trying to recruit
and we need another attorneyor we need another paralegal tip.
I'm sure you've heardthe exact same thing.
This is the most requested servicethat we don't
currently offer to our clients,but that they are looking to fulfill.
(02:17):
So, JP,we have you here as our kind of resident,
hiring expert to help our listenerswith this task.
We have five tipsthat we are going to help them with.
The first onebeing choosing the right job boards.
I think we've tried outa lot of them over the years.
Where's your,where's your head on this one?
(02:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's kind of two approachesyou can pick either very, niche
specific boards that are tailoredto like an industry, profession or role,
something like that.
Or you can kind of,go for the generic boards.
And both of these have advantages, right?
The obvious advantageto picking a niche board is that,
you're going to know that the folksyou're talking to are right there, right?
(03:00):
It's like kind of like shootingfish in a barrel,
like everybody who's on thereis, you know, in your space.
And then, of course,the general boards is a volume play.
And so there's probably a mixof both depending on the role
you're recruiting for.
I would say that the more senior a roleyou're shooting for,
the more you're goingto need to go to those niche boards.
And the more early stageyour entry level role,
the more you're goingto go to general board.
So what we think about is,we use a lot of the big ones that we use.
(03:23):
Indeed, we use LinkedIn.
We've also playedwith some of the aggregators.
So a lot of the job boards are fedby kind of centralized, puts.
So you put your posting into one placeand it ends up on, you know,
52 different job boards.
So always looking for for volumeplay there.
But yeah, that's kind ofhow we think about it is like,
we want to get in front of I'm not worriedabout getting in front of somebody who's,
(03:44):
not my target.
I'm not really concerned about thatbecause, I'd rather
get 100% of my ideal targetand someone qualified,
then have 100% qualifiedand miss out on half my ideal target.
So I kind ofI kind of think about that approach.
Now, if you think about niche boards.
Tony, I know you'veyou've got a few that you guys have worked
with in the past at Sterling.
(04:07):
That maybe you can speak to.
Yeah.
So real specifically, everyevery state is going to operate
a little differentlywhen you're hiring.
Specifically, I'm talking about attorneys,paralegals and intake specialists.
And, you know, your office managerroles, those types of roles,
those are going to be great,for kind of your more general,
(04:29):
general boards that JP was talking about,you know, your,
your needs, your your ZipRecruiter,LinkedIn.
Those are fantastic.
They're for attracting lawyers.
It's this is very statedependent situation.
So in Wisconsin,we found the most success with with spa.
(04:51):
So actually the, the job board on the barwebsite is a, it's a treasure
trove of opportunity.
It's where you're going to find the best,the best potential talent
that's in-market to do a job, switch.
We're going to talk about it.
In point number two,if you go to those job boards,
the titles are extraordinarily boringand they're not written very well.
(05:14):
I don't know why lawyers don't take theirtheir skills of writing
and being word doctors to the job boards,but they don't.
And it's just it's super, super boring.
So we found a lot of opportunity there.
But in Wisconsin, it's that in Illinois,the state bar website
where the where you can postjobs does not work as well.
(05:37):
We think it has a lot more to dowith the fact
that it's such a big statethat people don't go there because it's
it becomes too general and too robust.
So I can't prove it. I'monly in two states.
I've only done this in two statesin Wisconsin, Illinois.
But the biggest differentiatorbetween the two is that, like the Chicago
metro area is almost as bigas the whole state of Wisconsin. So,
(06:03):
so there's a so eachstate will operate a little differently,
you know, understanding and identifyingwhere your,
like how your state operatesis going to be really important
because there willthere will be a normative behavior
for the legal industry in terms oflike for attorneys, specifically
in termsof where they go to look for jobs.
(06:24):
Now, it's not saying in Wisconsinwe don't use indeed and we don't use
LinkedIn, we do.
But in terms of what performs better, inIllinois, indeed, in LinkedIn work
really well.
In Illinois, in Wisconsin, we seem waymore success with the state Bar website.
The other the other placesactually working directly with,
your local, law schools.
(06:47):
So your, your local law schoolshave obviously every year
a large graduating class and there's a,in the family law space,
there's not a lot of representation there.
And there are people that are interested.
So if you just do the minimum effortand like get involved with their,
there's a called their,job fairs.
(07:10):
Yeah. Their annual job fairs,I think they do.
They typically do two a year.
You're going to see success.
Your, your,your firm is going to get more well-known.
You're going to be more ingratiatedwith the university.
So there's a lot of benefits there.
Plus there's not a lot of family lawyersdoing it.
Most don't take the time or effort or,make the intention to do that. And,
(07:33):
then they have to do whatwe're doing outside of that,
which is go to the job boardsand hope you can find somebody.
So those would be kind of the specificsI would give as it pertains to
how do we recruit lawyersand attorneys in the space?
I think, you know, I couldhave said this at the beginning,
but recruiting is a sales role, right?
(07:54):
You are trying to get someoneto believe in your firm
and the benefits that you offer,and the value that you provide
to your attorneys and to your employeesand everything that you do
as it relates to recruitingshould be under that lens,
that people aren'tjust going to come and beg you for a job,
you have to sell them on the ideathat your firm is worth working at,
(08:15):
which goes into our second point,which is creating enticing job
titles,you know, don't just common attorney,
use some some fancy language,am I right, JP?
Yeah.
There's a there's an interesting linehere, but you're absolutely right.
I mean, we're talking about we're talkingabout marketing and sales, right?
(08:36):
One to many and 1 to 1.
And that's,that's what your recruiting function, is.
And what I would say is, like,you still need to be accurate.
You need to you need to accuratelydescribe the actual job title in the post.
You need to be you need to followall the proper, regulations there.
But you also have an opportunitywhen specifically when advertising
(08:56):
a, a posting to saythis is the title and here's why you care.
Right?
And so you can put modifiersand qualifiers on it.
Right.
This is, high energy.
This is, strategic. This is experienced.
And then like, we, we,we want to say like, you're not just,
you're not just a paralegal.
We want a family law paralegal.
(09:18):
And so, like,you can put these modifiers on
and then there's also space in theredepending on the posting
to put additional kind of like callsto action in there, which is high growth
opportunity or join a great culture,things like that.
Because really, what you're trying to getpeople do is stop scrolling
because they're looking at 52 postingsthat all say, you know,
(09:38):
attorney, attorney,attorney, attorney, attorney.
And this, like yours is going to stand outif you give them a little bit more,
to, to index on in that moment.
Yeah.
I would say this is super true.
This is oneI mentioned in the first first point here.
Obviously for for Sterlingand for rocket folks, we,
you know, we kind of startfrom a marketing and sales perspective.
(10:01):
So this was something that we understoodbeforehand.
But it if you go to these job boardsand you look what what JP just said,
it's 100% correct.
They're all just going to sayattorney family law attorney, lawyer
like in there.
They're all just like super bland, super,not interesting titles.
So if you can write onethat's slightly more interesting,
(10:23):
they're going to stop scrolling for like,oh, let me look at this one.
This one looks interesting.
And like that's all you're trying to do.
This is a marketing and sales opportunity.
So writing engaging job titlesis super important.
It might seem like a,an unknown,
and unimportant thing to do,but I would say it's
(10:45):
probably the thing that we've, we've donethe best in terms
of how we go to marketwith these different things
so that we can actually stand outon these job boards.
Because attention is attention is king,at least in these spaces.
Hundred percent, I think keyin keeping with this theme, right,
of being interesting and selling is thatwe have to do the same thing when we talk
about key responsibilities and impact.
(11:07):
Yeah.
So if you're going to get a high qualitycandidate,
they're not just there to push buttonsand draw a paycheck.
They're going to want to know,that the purpose
for existing in their role is high.
They're going to want to know that theimpact that they're having on the families
they're working with on their community,on the world at large is there.
(11:27):
And so you need to have this claritythat you're describing of
what are you going to do andwhy does it matter at the end of the day?
And that'll resonate with somebodywho's purpose driven, who's looking
for, hey, I don't just want a job.
I actually want to show upand spend my 40 to 60 hours a week
moving things forward in the worldso that I can go home
(11:48):
at night exhausted and going, man,I really made a difference today.
And so this is your chance to call it outagain. It's marketing.
You're selling a vision.
You're selling an outcome.
You're selling a future.
And so really make it clear of like, yes,this is what you're going to do.
You know, you're going to manage files,you're
going to work directly with clients,but also you're going to meet people
in their hardest momentsand provide support.
You're going to deliver the best possibleoutcomes, for your clients.
(12:11):
So this is where you can sell all of that.
So someone's going to read and go, man,that's what I want.
That's what I want my career to feel like.
Yeah.
I would I would also add like, likeif you're to think about the outline
of a job posting,like one of the things that I think
is really important that's often missed ismost of the time people are going to port
(12:32):
responsibilities and like competenciesthat are required or some,
some semblance of that duties of the role.
That's all boring.
Like it's important, but it's boring.
Like one of the there's two sectionsthat you have on there.
At a minimum.
What is the ideal candidate look likeand describe who they are in detail.
(12:52):
And it should be exclusionary language.
It should like includeexactly who you want
and intentionally exclude peoplethat don't match that.
The goal is not to get everybody to apply,it's to get the right person to apply.
So who does? Who is this?
Who does this?
Who fits this role well?
What do they look like? Is a section.
The other is like, why?
(13:12):
What is the impact you're making?
Why are you whywhy is this role very important
to theto the firm at large, to the community?
And for your like, for,the team at the organization.
So like,if we can describe both of those things,
I knowhave a way more engaging post
than everybody else who just has.
(13:35):
You know, I need an attorneywho's got 3 to 5 years of family
law experience that went to law schooland blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, congratulations.
You know, how to draft an,do negotiations and do those things
just like every other attorneyin the marketplace.
So you like just describing those things?
You haven't done anythingto set yourself apart,
like go into detailand describe those two sections.
(13:57):
Use your ability to be really conciseand compelling with language,
because lawyers can't do that.
They're very good at that.
Leverage that skill in this areabecause this is this is a high impact area
to do it.
actually think familylaw attorneys have an advantage here.
You get to help couples and familiesduring one of the most difficult times
that they're going to have in their life.
(14:21):
And if you can sell people on the ideathat you are the best at that,
or that you've saved this many familiesor this many children, that can be
extremely compelling to a young attorneylooking to make a difference.
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner, Tony Karl'sjust released his book where he lays bare
our precise blueprint for growingsterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million.
(14:44):
This is the blueprintthat we still use daily.
And Tony explains it in very simple terms.
The truth is, this is not simple to do.
Success requires and demands hard work.
But if you have the patienceand the work ethic to do
it, your family, law firm will succeed.
Okay.
(15:04):
We're moving on to number four,which is use keywords to boost
SEO and Searchability.
So we're gonna get intothe marketing weeds a little bit.
JP tell us more about this.
Yeah.
So again, every job board functionslargely off two operators.
One is a browse and one is a search.
One of the first things you doand you end up on all of these boards
is they say type your query in here.
(15:28):
And so what that does is then it goesto every one of those job listings,
and it looks for listings that matchor are similar to an intent,
the queries that somebody put in.
So if somebody types in litigation,it's going to find
job posts that have litigationlisted as one of the responsibilities.
And so what you put into your,job post, you need to be intentional
(15:53):
with the languageand think about what is a,
applicant going to be looking for,what are they actually going to type in?
And this might be worth even like,you know, getting some of your getting
some of your internal ISPs, the folkswho, who look exactly like,
hey, I want to get more like Frank.
If I can get more people like Frank,I'm gonna be really happy.
Hey, Frank, if you were doing this,what would you.
(16:14):
What would you put in here?
Like, get some feedback on it.
But, like,you want to be really intentional
with this language to describe actions,to describe responsibilities,
to describe the outcomes in the languageof your applicants, of your target pool,
so that when they search,they see familiar language.
This is also helpfulwhen they land on the job posts
and they read things and go,oh, this sounds like me.
(16:36):
This sounds like what I want.
So you get a dual benefit from this.
But yeah, it's intended to get your postmore visibility,
more, more eyes on your advertisementfor your open position.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things that we usein your we talked about titles,
obviously some of this should bein the title of your job post,
but don't overly stuff it.
(16:57):
Just put it in your job post.
Alternate position title names and like,just list them all.
They're just put it wayat the bottom of your job post.
And what will happen iswhat JP just mentioned is
when people come in and they searchfor the alternate, not the primary,
your job posting will show up whereall the other job postings that would
that didn't do this will they'llthey're not going to show up.
(17:21):
So you're going to have inherentlya significant advantage there
just by being more intentional about,you know, overall what is you know,
what does Frank call this?
If he was going to go do it, great.
What are other things you could search forlike literally just going and sitting
next to that person at their deskand being like,
hey, if you were looking for a job,what would you what would you type into?
Indeed. Cool.
If if so, if that didn't work and nothingcame up there, what would you type like?
(17:45):
What else would you type in?
Those are all things that you should havein your job job posting,
because now you're going to show upfor all the things that are potentially
going to be searched for.
So and this isthis will be the SEO portion.
Job boards are really,really, really bad dumb search engines.
But they are search engines inherently.
But they're like Google from 1997,not what we have today.
(18:07):
That should just be an easy to hack right?
Exactly.
That's whyjust be really blunt and dumb about it
and how you're how you're doing this.
it. Okay.
Our final point, which is showcaseyour firm's culture and values.
We've hit on this a little bit,but I really think that this is
the biggest salesproponent of the recruiting process
(18:28):
and that candidates have to understandwhy you're different.
Yeah.
So Tony mentioned this earlier,that part of the purpose
of your advertisement of your job openingis to eliminate people
from the application process.
It takes time and effortto sift through all the applicants.
You're going to get to talk to peopleto do screening interviews,
(18:50):
resume reviews, and spending that time onsomebody who's not values
aligned, who's not culturealigned is is a waste of time, resources.
And it's a waste of their time, too,because they're going to go through the
application process and it's a bad fit.
So even thinking of your process,they're going to be annoyed.
Be like, yeah,I don't know if I really want to,
you know,I don't really want to end up here anyway.
And so being really clear and upfrontis the kindest thing you can do
(19:13):
for potential applicantand for your own team.
And so, you know,Tony talked about like the it should
outline exactly who you're looking forin positive terms.
And it should also eliminate peoplein negative terms.
And so, you know, you shouldyou should use language in there
that is evocative,that is going to push people emotionally
(19:35):
to connect or not connect.
So you get the appropriate response.
And, and hopefully you'll listento all the stuff we've talked
about developing a clear mission,vision and values.
You've got that outline in such a waywhere it's a very polarizing
yes no response.
And like that needs to be very clearupfront and lead with that.
Like, I don't even want you scrollingand reading the what you do
if you don't understand why we do itand how we do it.
(19:58):
Because if you're not aligned with that,let's just stop here.
Let's not waste each other's time.
So again,we're back to we're back to marketing.
We're back to sales.
We're back to qualifying the prospectand saying like, hey,
let's make sure that we're a good fitfor each other before we move forward.
You know, I would I wouldjust add to that like the, the primary
purpose of a job postingor the primary function of a job
(20:21):
posting is a sale,and it's the sale
of a new potential team member.
So if you think it's something different,you're looking at it wrong.
If you treat the applicantsas they're coming in, not as hot leads.
So like I know we've talked aboutin our marketing series,
if you're not responding within the firstfive minutes, you're likely
response of that lead is really low.
(20:43):
The same thing holds true with applicants.
They're not just waiting around for youto give them a call back.
You got to treat themas if they're they're a valuable lead
that just entered your system.
So the more intentional you can be,on inclusionary and exclusionary,
you know, content in the posting and like,clearly
describe your company and your values,all of that stuff.
(21:03):
The less screening you're going tohave to do because you're hopefully just
a bunch of them aren't going to click.
Yes. I'd like to apply that and be like,this doesn't sound like me.
I don't want this group that's goodthat I don't we don't feel bad about that.
We just knowthis isn't a good place to fit.
I don't want to fire you in the futurefor finding it out after I hired you.
(21:25):
So I would just, you know, lean into.
Lean into.
This is a sales sales letterfor your organization that includes
some descriptions on what youwhat this individual person
is going to dofrom a contribution perspective.
Yes. And if any of this feels like,oh, how am I going to sell them?
I don't know why our firm is different.
Go back and listen to our visionmission and values, podcast
(21:49):
so that you can establish those firstand then you can sell future team
members on them.
Gentlemen, appreciate the time.
Excited to get this out into the world.
Are your job listings failingto bring in the legal talent
your firm needs in today's digital age?
How you present your openingsonline can make all the difference.
In this episode,we share the best strategies for writing
and optimizing onlinejob listings to ensure you're attracting
top legal professionals.
(00:23):
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
your go to resource for familylaw owners looking to drive growth,
optimize operations,and boost profitability.
I am your host, Tyler Dolph.
I'm also the CEO of our law firm, onlymarketing agency called Rocket Clicks.
We specialize in helping family law firmsgrow through data
(00:45):
driven digital strategies and performancemarketing.
Today, I have with me Tony Karls,who is the co-founder of our very own
family law firm called Sterling Lawyersthat has grown to over 27 attorneys.
And we also have JP VanderLinden,who is our head of operations and client
service.
He has extensive experiencein people operations, specifically in
(01:08):
how legal firms can strategically leveragedigital platforms
to attract and retain the best talent.
Today, we're focusing onhow to maximize your online job listings
to attract top legal professionals,whether it's choosing the right platform
or optimizing your content.
We are going to give you practical tipsfor getting the most out of your job
postings.
(01:31):
All right guys, we are back.
Today we are focusing onhow to maximize your online jobless things
to attract legal professionals.
Whether it's choosing the right platformor optimizing your content.
We are going to give you practical tipsfor getting the most out of your job
postings.
And Tony,I know this is true for our law firm.
It's sterlingand something I hear from our clients
(01:52):
all the time isthat they need to find great talent.
You know, their oh,we don't want to turn up marketing
because we don't have the capacitybecause we're trying to recruit
and we need another attorneyor we need another paralegal tip.
I'm sure you've heardthe exact same thing.
This is the most requested servicethat we don't
currently offer to our clients,but that they are looking to fulfill.
(02:17):
So, JP,we have you here as our kind of resident,
hiring expert to help our listenerswith this task.
We have five tipsthat we are going to help them with.
The first onebeing choosing the right job boards.
I think we've tried outa lot of them over the years.
Where's your,where's your head on this one?
(02:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's kind of two approachesyou can pick either very, niche
specific boards that are tailoredto like an industry, profession or role,
something like that.
Or you can kind of,go for the generic boards.
And both of these have advantages, right?
The obvious advantageto picking a niche board is that,
you're going to know that the folksyou're talking to are right there, right?
(03:00):
It's like kind of like shootingfish in a barrel,
like everybody who's on thereis, you know, in your space.
And then, of course,the general boards is a volume play.
And so there's probably a mixof both depending on the role
you're recruiting for.
I would say that the more senior a roleyou're shooting for,
the more you're goingto need to go to those niche boards.
And the more early stageyour entry level role,
the more you're goingto go to general board.
So what we think about is,we use a lot of the big ones that we use.
(03:23):
Indeed, we use LinkedIn.
We've also playedwith some of the aggregators.
So a lot of the job boards are fedby kind of centralized, puts.
So you put your posting into one placeand it ends up on, you know,
52 different job boards.
So always looking for for volumeplay there.
But yeah, that's kind ofhow we think about it is like,
we want to get in front of I'm not worriedabout getting in front of somebody who's,
(03:44):
not my target.
I'm not really concerned about thatbecause, I'd rather
get 100% of my ideal targetand someone qualified,
then have 100% qualifiedand miss out on half my ideal target.
So I kind ofI kind of think about that approach.
Now, if you think about niche boards.
Tony, I know you'veyou've got a few that you guys have worked
with in the past at Sterling.
(04:07):
That maybe you can speak to.
Yeah.
So real specifically, everyevery state is going to operate
a little differentlywhen you're hiring.
Specifically, I'm talking about attorneys,paralegals and intake specialists.
And, you know, your office managerroles, those types of roles,
those are going to be great,for kind of your more general,
(04:29):
general boards that JP was talking about,you know, your,
your needs, your your ZipRecruiter,LinkedIn.
Those are fantastic.
They're for attracting lawyers.
It's this is very statedependent situation.
So in Wisconsin,we found the most success with with spa.
(04:51):
So actually the, the job board on the barwebsite is a, it's a treasure
trove of opportunity.
It's where you're going to find the best,the best potential talent
that's in-market to do a job, switch.
We're going to talk about it.
In point number two,if you go to those job boards,
the titles are extraordinarily boringand they're not written very well.
(05:14):
I don't know why lawyers don't take theirtheir skills of writing
and being word doctors to the job boards,but they don't.
And it's just it's super, super boring.
So we found a lot of opportunity there.
But in Wisconsin, it's that in Illinois,the state bar website
where the where you can postjobs does not work as well.
(05:37):
We think it has a lot more to dowith the fact
that it's such a big statethat people don't go there because it's
it becomes too general and too robust.
So I can't prove it. I'monly in two states.
I've only done this in two statesin Wisconsin, Illinois.
But the biggest differentiatorbetween the two is that, like the Chicago
metro area is almost as bigas the whole state of Wisconsin. So,
(06:03):
so there's a so eachstate will operate a little differently,
you know, understanding and identifyingwhere your,
like how your state operatesis going to be really important
because there willthere will be a normative behavior
for the legal industry in terms oflike for attorneys, specifically
in termsof where they go to look for jobs.
(06:24):
Now, it's not saying in Wisconsinwe don't use indeed and we don't use
LinkedIn, we do.
But in terms of what performs better, inIllinois, indeed, in LinkedIn work
really well.
In Illinois, in Wisconsin, we seem waymore success with the state Bar website.
The other the other placesactually working directly with,
your local, law schools.
(06:47):
So your, your local law schoolshave obviously every year
a large graduating class and there's a,in the family law space,
there's not a lot of representation there.
And there are people that are interested.
So if you just do the minimum effortand like get involved with their,
there's a called their,job fairs.
(07:10):
Yeah. Their annual job fairs,I think they do.
They typically do two a year.
You're going to see success.
Your, your,your firm is going to get more well-known.
You're going to be more ingratiatedwith the university.
So there's a lot of benefits there.
Plus there's not a lot of family lawyersdoing it.
Most don't take the time or effort or,make the intention to do that. And,
(07:33):
then they have to do whatwe're doing outside of that,
which is go to the job boardsand hope you can find somebody.
So those would be kind of the specificsI would give as it pertains to
how do we recruit lawyersand attorneys in the space?
I think, you know, I couldhave said this at the beginning,
but recruiting is a sales role, right?
(07:54):
You are trying to get someoneto believe in your firm
and the benefits that you offer,and the value that you provide
to your attorneys and to your employeesand everything that you do
as it relates to recruitingshould be under that lens,
that people aren'tjust going to come and beg you for a job,
you have to sell them on the ideathat your firm is worth working at,
(08:15):
which goes into our second point,which is creating enticing job
titles,you know, don't just common attorney,
use some some fancy language,am I right, JP?
Yeah.
There's a there's an interesting linehere, but you're absolutely right.
I mean, we're talking about we're talkingabout marketing and sales, right?
(08:36):
One to many and 1 to 1.
And that's,that's what your recruiting function, is.
And what I would say is, like,you still need to be accurate.
You need to you need to accuratelydescribe the actual job title in the post.
You need to be you need to followall the proper, regulations there.
But you also have an opportunitywhen specifically when advertising
(08:56):
a, a posting to saythis is the title and here's why you care.
Right?
And so you can put modifiersand qualifiers on it.
Right.
This is, high energy.
This is, strategic. This is experienced.
And then like, we, we,we want to say like, you're not just,
you're not just a paralegal.
We want a family law paralegal.
(09:18):
And so, like,you can put these modifiers on
and then there's also space in theredepending on the posting
to put additional kind of like callsto action in there, which is high growth
opportunity or join a great culture,things like that.
Because really, what you're trying to getpeople do is stop scrolling
because they're looking at 52 postingsthat all say, you know,
(09:38):
attorney, attorney,attorney, attorney, attorney.
And this, like yours is going to stand outif you give them a little bit more,
to, to index on in that moment.
Yeah.
I would say this is super true.
This is oneI mentioned in the first first point here.
Obviously for for Sterlingand for rocket folks, we,
you know, we kind of startfrom a marketing and sales perspective.
(10:01):
So this was something that we understoodbeforehand.
But it if you go to these job boardsand you look what what JP just said,
it's 100% correct.
They're all just going to sayattorney family law attorney, lawyer
like in there.
They're all just like super bland, super,not interesting titles.
So if you can write onethat's slightly more interesting,
(10:23):
they're going to stop scrolling for like,oh, let me look at this one.
This one looks interesting.
And like that's all you're trying to do.
This is a marketing and sales opportunity.
So writing engaging job titlesis super important.
It might seem like a,an unknown,
and unimportant thing to do,but I would say it's
(10:45):
probably the thing that we've, we've donethe best in terms
of how we go to marketwith these different things
so that we can actually stand outon these job boards.
Because attention is attention is king,at least in these spaces.
Hundred percent, I think keyin keeping with this theme, right,
of being interesting and selling is thatwe have to do the same thing when we talk
about key responsibilities and impact.
(11:07):
Yeah.
So if you're going to get a high qualitycandidate,
they're not just there to push buttonsand draw a paycheck.
They're going to want to know,that the purpose
for existing in their role is high.
They're going to want to know that theimpact that they're having on the families
they're working with on their community,on the world at large is there.
(11:27):
And so you need to have this claritythat you're describing of
what are you going to do andwhy does it matter at the end of the day?
And that'll resonate with somebodywho's purpose driven, who's looking
for, hey, I don't just want a job.
I actually want to show upand spend my 40 to 60 hours a week
moving things forward in the worldso that I can go home
(11:48):
at night exhausted and going, man,I really made a difference today.
And so this is your chance to call it outagain. It's marketing.
You're selling a vision.
You're selling an outcome.
You're selling a future.
And so really make it clear of like, yes,this is what you're going to do.
You know, you're going to manage files,you're
going to work directly with clients,but also you're going to meet people
in their hardest momentsand provide support.
You're going to deliver the best possibleoutcomes, for your clients.
(12:11):
So this is where you can sell all of that.
So someone's going to read and go, man,that's what I want.
That's what I want my career to feel like.
Yeah.
I would I would also add like, likeif you're to think about the outline
of a job posting,like one of the things that I think
is really important that's often missed ismost of the time people are going to port
(12:32):
responsibilities and like competenciesthat are required or some,
some semblance of that duties of the role.
That's all boring.
Like it's important, but it's boring.
Like one of the there's two sectionsthat you have on there.
At a minimum.
What is the ideal candidate look likeand describe who they are in detail.
(12:52):
And it should be exclusionary language.
It should like includeexactly who you want
and intentionally exclude peoplethat don't match that.
The goal is not to get everybody to apply,it's to get the right person to apply.
So who does? Who is this?
Who does this?
Who fits this role well?
What do they look like? Is a section.
The other is like, why?
(13:12):
What is the impact you're making?
Why are you whywhy is this role very important
to theto the firm at large, to the community?
And for your like, for,the team at the organization.
So like,if we can describe both of those things,
I knowhave a way more engaging post
than everybody else who just has.
(13:35):
You know, I need an attorneywho's got 3 to 5 years of family
law experience that went to law schooland blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, congratulations.
You know, how to draft an,do negotiations and do those things
just like every other attorneyin the marketplace.
So you like just describing those things?
You haven't done anythingto set yourself apart,
like go into detailand describe those two sections.
(13:57):
Use your ability to be really conciseand compelling with language,
because lawyers can't do that.
They're very good at that.
Leverage that skill in this areabecause this is this is a high impact area
to do it.
actually think familylaw attorneys have an advantage here.
You get to help couples and familiesduring one of the most difficult times
that they're going to have in their life.
(14:21):
And if you can sell people on the ideathat you are the best at that,
or that you've saved this many familiesor this many children, that can be
extremely compelling to a young attorneylooking to make a difference.
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner, Tony Karl'sjust released his book where he lays bare
our precise blueprint for growingsterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million.
(14:44):
This is the blueprintthat we still use daily.
And Tony explains it in very simple terms.
The truth is, this is not simple to do.
Success requires and demands hard work.
But if you have the patienceand the work ethic to do
it, your family, law firm will succeed.
Okay.
(15:04):
We're moving on to number four,which is use keywords to boost
SEO and Searchability.
So we're gonna get intothe marketing weeds a little bit.
JP tell us more about this.
Yeah.
So again, every job board functionslargely off two operators.
One is a browse and one is a search.
One of the first things you doand you end up on all of these boards
is they say type your query in here.
(15:28):
And so what that does is then it goesto every one of those job listings,
and it looks for listings that matchor are similar to an intent,
the queries that somebody put in.
So if somebody types in litigation,it's going to find
job posts that have litigationlisted as one of the responsibilities.
And so what you put into your,job post, you need to be intentional
(15:53):
with the languageand think about what is a,
applicant going to be looking for,what are they actually going to type in?
And this might be worth even like,you know, getting some of your getting
some of your internal ISPs, the folkswho, who look exactly like,
hey, I want to get more like Frank.
If I can get more people like Frank,I'm gonna be really happy.
Hey, Frank, if you were doing this,what would you.
(16:14):
What would you put in here?
Like, get some feedback on it.
But, like,you want to be really intentional
with this language to describe actions,to describe responsibilities,
to describe the outcomes in the languageof your applicants, of your target pool,
so that when they search,they see familiar language.
This is also helpfulwhen they land on the job posts
and they read things and go,oh, this sounds like me.
(16:36):
This sounds like what I want.
So you get a dual benefit from this.
But yeah, it's intended to get your postmore visibility,
more, more eyes on your advertisementfor your open position.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things that we usein your we talked about titles,
obviously some of this should bein the title of your job post,
but don't overly stuff it.
(16:57):
Just put it in your job post.
Alternate position title names and like,just list them all.
They're just put it wayat the bottom of your job post.
And what will happen iswhat JP just mentioned is
when people come in and they searchfor the alternate, not the primary,
your job posting will show up whereall the other job postings that would
that didn't do this will they'llthey're not going to show up.
(17:21):
So you're going to have inherentlya significant advantage there
just by being more intentional about,you know, overall what is you know,
what does Frank call this?
If he was going to go do it, great.
What are other things you could search forlike literally just going and sitting
next to that person at their deskand being like,
hey, if you were looking for a job,what would you what would you type into?
Indeed. Cool.
If if so, if that didn't work and nothingcame up there, what would you type like?
(17:45):
What else would you type in?
Those are all things that you should havein your job job posting,
because now you're going to show upfor all the things that are potentially
going to be searched for.
So and this isthis will be the SEO portion.
Job boards are really,really, really bad dumb search engines.
But they are search engines inherently.
But they're like Google from 1997,not what we have today.
(18:07):
That should just be an easy to hack right?
Exactly.
That's whyjust be really blunt and dumb about it
and how you're how you're doing this.
it. Okay.
Our final point, which is showcaseyour firm's culture and values.
We've hit on this a little bit,but I really think that this is
the biggest salesproponent of the recruiting process
(18:28):
and that candidates have to understandwhy you're different.
Yeah.
So Tony mentioned this earlier,that part of the purpose
of your advertisement of your job openingis to eliminate people
from the application process.
It takes time and effortto sift through all the applicants.
You're going to get to talk to peopleto do screening interviews,
(18:50):
resume reviews, and spending that time onsomebody who's not values
aligned, who's not culturealigned is is a waste of time, resources.
And it's a waste of their time, too,because they're going to go through the
application process and it's a bad fit.
So even thinking of your process,they're going to be annoyed.
Be like, yeah,I don't know if I really want to,
you know,I don't really want to end up here anyway.
And so being really clear and upfrontis the kindest thing you can do
(19:13):
for potential applicantand for your own team.
And so, you know,Tony talked about like the it should
outline exactly who you're looking forin positive terms.
And it should also eliminate peoplein negative terms.
And so, you know, you shouldyou should use language in there
that is evocative,that is going to push people emotionally
(19:35):
to connect or not connect.
So you get the appropriate response.
And, and hopefully you'll listento all the stuff we've talked
about developing a clear mission,vision and values.
You've got that outline in such a waywhere it's a very polarizing
yes no response.
And like that needs to be very clearupfront and lead with that.
Like, I don't even want you scrollingand reading the what you do
if you don't understand why we do itand how we do it.
(19:58):
Because if you're not aligned with that,let's just stop here.
Let's not waste each other's time.
So again,we're back to we're back to marketing.
We're back to sales.
We're back to qualifying the prospectand saying like, hey,
let's make sure that we're a good fitfor each other before we move forward.
You know, I would I wouldjust add to that like the, the primary
purpose of a job postingor the primary function of a job
(20:21):
posting is a sale,and it's the sale
of a new potential team member.
So if you think it's something different,you're looking at it wrong.
If you treat the applicantsas they're coming in, not as hot leads.
So like I know we've talked aboutin our marketing series,
if you're not responding within the firstfive minutes, you're likely
response of that lead is really low.
(20:43):
The same thing holds true with applicants.
They're not just waiting around for youto give them a call back.
You got to treat themas if they're they're a valuable lead
that just entered your system.
So the more intentional you can be,on inclusionary and exclusionary,
you know, content in the posting and like,clearly
describe your company and your values,all of that stuff.
(21:03):
The less screening you're going tohave to do because you're hopefully just
a bunch of them aren't going to click.
Yes. I'd like to apply that and be like,this doesn't sound like me.
I don't want this group that's goodthat I don't we don't feel bad about that.
We just knowthis isn't a good place to fit.
I don't want to fire you in the futurefor finding it out after I hired you.
(21:25):
So I would just, you know, lean into.
Lean into.
This is a sales sales letterfor your organization that includes
some descriptions on what youwhat this individual person
is going to dofrom a contribution perspective.
Yes. And if any of this feels like,oh, how am I going to sell them?
I don't know why our firm is different.
Go back and listen to our visionmission and values, podcast
(21:49):
so that you can establish those firstand then you can sell future team
members on them.
Gentlemen, appreciate the time.
Excited to get this out into the world.
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