April 16, 2026 • 26 mins
➡️ Register Here: www.RocketClicks.com/revive-dead-leads
—
Law firm lead follow-up is where 75% of our revenue actually lives. Most firms never touch it.
We break down the 90-day follow-up system that reactivates unconverted leads and adds revenue your firm is currently ignoring.
We’ll go deeper on this in our upcoming webinar on May 1: “How to Revive Dead Leads: Sales Secrets of an $18M Family Law Firm.”
Register to learn how to turn your existing pipeline into revenue you’re currently missing.
—
➡️ Register Here: www.RocketClicks.com/revive-dead-leads
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@karls.anthony
https://www.youtube.com/@TylerxDolph
📝 Schedule a FREE Family Law Firm Audit: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Lead Follow-Up: The Myth of the Dead Lead
1:00 - Every No Is a Not Yet: The Mindset Shift Behind High-Converting Intake
3:01 - Why 75% of Revenue Lives Inside Your Follow-Up System
5:07 - Five Real Reasons Leads Don't Convert on the First Intake Call
9:25 - How to Find the Dominant Buying Motive on Every Intake Call
12:01 - Gross vs. Intentional: What Real Family Law Lead Nurturing Sounds Like
18:04 - Scaling Intake Team Accountability With QA, Huddles, and Role Play
21:42 - The 90-Day Unconverted Lead Reactivation Process That Actually Works
23:52 - Why Your CRM Is the Foundation of Every Law Firm Sales Process
Curious to discover your personalized roadmap to scaling a law firm, no matter where you are in the business?
Follow these steps:
1. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
2. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonykarls/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerdolph/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-clicks
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If your firm talked to30 people last month who didn't retain you
and you left it at that.
You're literally wastingrevenue buried in your CRM.
This episode shows youthe difference between losing leads
and recovering revenue.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show.
I'm your host. Tyler Dolph.
(00:20):
I'm also the CEO of our family law firmonly consultancy called Rocket Clicks
that was born out of our very own familylaw firm, Sterling Lawyers,
that will do over $20 million in revenuethis year.
today we're going to talk with Maryand Tony again on the power of follow up
and what we do at Sterling.
Mary and Tony, welcomeback to the Sterling family Law Show.
(00:42):
You know,we're coming off an amazing webinar
that we just completed,had a record attendance,
and it was all aboutthe intake process at Sterling.
And so we thought, okay, we need to expandon this and really dive a bit deeper.
And so today we're going to talk aboutthe myth as it relates to dead leads
and the power of super strong follow up.
(01:05):
Mary, get us started byjust talking about your philosophy
as it relates to why you should follow upand why, you know, leads aren't dead.
If they say no in the first callor if they say, let me think about
Just said it all in one sentence.
This does not have to meanif somebody says no or they have to think
about it or talk to their great unclewho's going to pay for the consultation.
(01:28):
That doesn't mean they're telling,you know.
And every no is closer to a yes.
And that's really the mindset thatyou need to have going into these calls.
It's just a not yet.
It's just not yetone step closer to that. Yes.
But you need to hold the truththat you are the safest place
for this individual to be.
And if they picked up the phoneand called you, you owe it to their future
(01:53):
to ensure that they know thatand to do everything that you can
to ensure that they get there.
So it's one step closereach and every time.
I'll just say Mary.
I think what's uniqueabout the way that we.
We've always done it at Sterling.
And how youyou got to do this when you started
that doesn't meanthat they're going to transact with you.
But like Mary's last statement,like you owe it to them
to make sure they go through the process,like where did they
(02:14):
did they get to a place where they can nowtake a next step forward?
It doesn't mean necessarilygoing through divorce, but like, did they
did they connect with maybe a therapistor a counselor or whatever?
The thing is that's nextso that they can move forward
in their lifebecause it doesn't necessarily it's not a
let's do a hard selland make sure that we get everybody
that calls a divorce or,you know, get involved with their family
(02:36):
so that they could have another stressfulmoment.
Like, that's not what was meant by that,but it is.
It is our job.
They entered our world,and we feel like it's our responsibility
to to care for themand move them to the next step in moving
forward in their life, and whether that'swith us or with another resource,
that's whatwe want to make sure we're doing.
And that's what a good, goodsalesperson on the phone is going to do.
(02:58):
And that's what that no or not yetor I'm not ready yet actually means.
But if there's no next step follow upcare for the person.
That's why they called you be differentthan everybody else in the marketplace.
Totally agree.
I thinkthe most powerful stat that we have as
it relates to looking at all of Sterling'sdata, is that 75% of our
revenue gets recordedduring our follow up system.
(03:21):
It doesn't happen on the first call.
It happens on subsequent calls.
And and knowing thatand having the narrative
that some of these family law firms have,which is like,
if I don't close on the first call,they're dead.
I should never do anything with them.
The amount of lost revenuethere is pretty astounding.
It's crazy to mewhen I think back to my time
(03:42):
as an intake agent,and I spent four years in that position,
the majority of my deals closeswhatever you want to say.
It was not first time callers,it was majority.
It was follow up. I loved follow up.
I loved the last week of the monthbecause I was sitting,
going through the last 60 and 90 daysof my clients that I previously spoke
(04:02):
to and ensuring that they knew that we arethe safest place to go through this.
If they choose to go through this,but we're also the safest place
to give referrals,to give the best solution for whatever
the pain that they're in, then that'sthe mindset that you need to have is.
I lovewhen Tony said they entered your world.
Yeah, they picked up the phoneand they called the law firm,
(04:24):
which was a really scary phonecall to make.
Now it's your job to treat them welland to treat them with truth
and love in a way that's meaningfulfor their future, with their families.
Can we just likewhen we're talking about clothes, we're
still talking setting a consultation.
That'swhat we're what we're talking about here.
(04:44):
So there's a lot of activity that happenspost clothes, because some of the 75%
that's on consultationsbecoming funded agreements.
And then another statisticwe're talking about
I think we're talking about intake.
So intake specifically you'rea lot of your values not happening on
that first phone callor 40% is happening on all the follow up.
(05:06):
So both on the post consultation,you're 75% of your revenue is coming
after that consultation date.
And then even on the intake,more than 40% of your intake value,
your sets are going to come after thatfirst one.
So if you're not doingfollow up on both sides of this,
you are missingmassive amounts of revenue.
(05:26):
I'm sorry to interrupt.
I just want to make sure we'recalibrated in what we're talking about
because we're talking about follow up.
All of this should bepart of everybody's plan,
but it's on both parts of this operation.
It's not just one or the other, it's both.
And they're a little bit different.
Like to answer Tyler'squestion, when they walk away
(05:47):
on the front end, the intake side,which is what
we're focusing on for this next webinar,it's not generally because of price.
They walk awaybecause they didn't feel understood.
Nobody could pinpoint the urgencyor what the cost of doing
nothing really is.
The solution was not personal.
(06:07):
It did not reflectthe needs that their family actually had.
No one led them to the decision.
That's that's a huge one.
And then they they had unspoken concernsthat you were too afraid
as the individual that answered their callto go deeper than surface level.
And sobecause you're not actually addressing
(06:29):
the real concern,you're addressing the wrong one.
And that's why they don't move forward.
So I want to jump around a little bit,because I think that what you said
is really importantand that if the first call,
the potential client doesn'tfeel heard or understood, or
maybe they're on the fence still right,and they're not going to close anyway,
what mistakes did maybe we make early on?
(06:51):
Or do you see our teammatein that first call.
But they then can correct or fix later on?
Have you ever been to a dentistor a doctor's appointment
where they're just asking youthe historical questions about your family
history, your medical history,the last time you were at the dentist?
That's what it is.
They share facts, not emotions.
(07:11):
And in this industry,in these types of conversations,
your questions have to digdeeper than tell me
your email, your phone number,your county, the opposing party's name.
What were your maiden name was?
What kind of case are you looking for?
It's.
It's got to make the individualfeel like they picked up the phone
(07:35):
during the hardest season of their life,and are going to talk to
somebody that actually understandsthe pain that they're in,
and follow ups need to truly here.
I heard what you said about your childrenand you missing drop off at school.
Everything that we talk about now relatesto ensuring that you can drop your child
off at school.
Does that make sense?
(07:55):
So it's really like having the opportunityto dig deep.
Yeah. Yep.
And then that goes into the next one.
The cost of doing nothing.
The cost of waiting.
The the lack of urgency.
Well, if if I'm on the phone with Tylerand he's telling me that he really misses
the fact that he can no longerdrop his sons off at school,
(08:15):
and he's missing baseball practices,and he walks away from scheduling
that consultationwhere I know that that's the first step
closer to allowing him backthat time with his child.
And I fail to mention that.
I fail to pinpoint.
Tyler, I know that you're in pain,and I cannot imagine having to go
another week missing all of your son'sbaseball practices when I know Holly's
(08:40):
at the other end of this, waiting for you,waiting to get you that time back.
If I'm not going to say that to you,Miss Opportunity, missed opportunity
to connect with that personand make them feel fully understood
and to pinpoint that, hey, doingnothing is a decision, and that decision
is not one that I'm going to allow youto make without really addressing it.
(09:02):
There's so much nuance indetail to what you said, because I think
if I'm listening this, I'm like, yeah,we you know, we have our call center.
Yeah, we ask those tough questions.
But your point about like,once they divulge something
so important to themthat becomes the, the root
(09:22):
at which the rest of the conversationhas to apply to.
Your beacon, it's your homing beaconpointing you to the direction
that they're going, right?
Like your follow up post,that has to be simple and it has to
guide them towards that beaconbecause they told you why they're in pain.
So now guide them towards the solution.
You in the in the webinarwe did you we asked two questions
(09:48):
really to uncoverwhat we're talking about here,
which is their dominant buying motive.
And like everybody has one of these.
And it's your jobas the intake person to to get it.
And once you get it okay.
Now it's your job toto manage it and to move it forward
as it pertains to like whatwhat did they tell you and what's
how do you help them solution that thing.
(10:09):
And it's not complicated,but most people just stay surface
level and stay transactional.
And then they have a heart.
Then they look at their their numbers andthey're like, why aren't we performing?
Well, we need more leads.
Like that's literallywhere the conversation goes.
And it's because we're not doing the jobthat we should be doing.
And the reality is like,we're not trying to be manipulative, but
they're everybody has a dominant buyingmotive for everything that you purchase,
(10:32):
whether it's a backpack or a shirtor getting your hairstyle
to certain way, like you have a DVMfor all of those things.
And like the if you'reif you're on the sales side of that,
it's your responsibilityto figure out why.
And then,okay, now how do I move this thing forward
and tie back to that thing constantlybecause they just told you the answer,
what are you doing with the answer?
(10:55):
Like they gave you the answer key?
What to be great.
If you were in schooland the teacher always gave
you the answer key to every single,you know, test or question,
you'd know what to do with it.
They ask so simple questions.
I mean,what are those two questions like?
Ask the questionsand do tie backs. Exactly.
And it also helps you in your follow ups.
So if you don't have enough information,your follow ups are going to feel
(11:18):
very transactional.
They're going to feel very chasingrather than leading.
But when you dig deeper,when you understand
what is actually at stake,what is the pain?
Well then every single conversationcan be different.
But again,it's always pointing towards that beacon.
What step are we taken to get you one?
(11:38):
No. Closer to the. Yes.
Yeah Mary.
What like just do do the generic grossfollow up Tyler.
And thendo the one that you just described, Tyler,
about him wanting to pick up his kidsand do baseball like it's it's
so different.
The second one doesn't feel likeit doesn't feel like a sales
(11:59):
I would be happy to.
So, Tyler, the gross follow up would be.
Hey, Tyler, I talked to you last night,and I'm just seeing how you're doing
since that conversation.
Are you ready to book that console?
Know who is this again?
What? exactly.
Oh, yeah. Exactly.
That's terrible. for sure.
Okay, if I were following up with Tylerand I knew that his sons were
(12:22):
at stake in the time with his sonsmatter to him, that conversation sounds.
Hey, Tyler,this is Mary from Sterling Lawyers.
Did I catch you at an okay time?
You did. Thanks, Mary.
Tyler,I've been thinking about your situation
all night,and I came across a YouTube video
on fathers rights on our websitethat I'm going to text over to you.
(12:44):
But what I really wanted to dotoday is focus on the cost of waiting.
Because I know you valuetime with your child,
and I know that you value all ofthose moments that are going to build
deeper relationships with your child.
And I'm not willingto let you have another week
go by where that is at risk.
So what I'm going to do todayis I'm going to send you that YouTube
(13:06):
video, and I want to take the next stepwith you to ensure that your children
and you have a really good relationshipas you progress towards your future.
Have you thought atall about the decision that you and I
ended with on the next step for youand your children, and that consultation
with Holly is still available,so I would love to book that for you
(13:26):
today.
Thanks so much, Mary.
I'm ready.
When was the last time your team calledto book a lead who didn't book?
If you can't answer that,neither can your intake team.
And that means every lead.
Who said I need to think aboutit is sitting in your CRM right now
(13:48):
without an owner, without a follow update, and no next step?
That lead is not dead.
That's revenue that you will not getthat you forgot about.
At Sterling Lawyers, 75% of our revenuecomes after that first conversation, 75%
meaning even if you just do this poorly,you will change your firm over night.
(14:10):
We track this across thousands of cases,and we found the money in the follow up.
We're teaching the exact follow up systembehind that number in a free training.
How do we prepare for every call?
What do our agents actually say?
And what is the cadence that runs behindevery lead until they book?
(14:31):
Please see the link belowso that you can sign up today.
To me,like the difference is so much more.
There's so much more heartlike I matter to you.
Oh, you were thinking about me.
Like you were thinking about my situation.
They remember the details likeit's all in the details and it's not hard.
(14:52):
Like we're not trying to create anythingcrazy.
It's just people will gowhere they feel like they're cared for
and they're going to get serviced.
Well, this is a huge decision.
It is at the beginning of thisI gave you, I think, five reasons
why people didn't move forward.
And I said no oneis leading them to the decision.
I think it was the fourthone that I said at the beginning.
(15:13):
That's a huge deal.
These individualscalling a family law firm
R worn down, they are worn out,they are heartbroken.
They are in physical,emotional and spiritual pain and turmoil.
They can't make decisions.
Most of themphysically cannot make the decision.
You have to do it for them,and you have to do it in a way
(15:34):
that is spoken with truth and love.
I know I am the safest place.
When a client calls any of my intakeagents, they are in the safest
hands possible,going towards the safest attorneys,
leading them to the safest outcomesfor their family.
That is the belief that you must havewhen you're answering these clients,
because they cannot make the decision andyou're going to have to do it with them.
(15:58):
But in order to do that with them,you have to do the four blocks as well,
and you have to do your follow up.
Well, it has to be personal.
It has to be about them.
Tie backs have to exist at every opportunity presented to you in that client.
Just like,just like a weird nuance in here
that probably is not us livingthis out has made us a better firm.
(16:19):
Because you know what happens whenthe intake team doesn't feel like that?
They're going to say somethingabout our service,
and we're going to havea real conversation about
how we're servicing our clientsso that our intake team
feels very comfortableand not lying about our service.
And it creates a way betterfirm, way healthier firm,
(16:41):
because we're actually we're actuallyall working together,
and we're not trying to create thislike just this thing that produces money.
Like we're actually trying to live outwhat we, you know, what we idealize
in our mind about building a law firmand helping people.
And it creates ait creates a way, healthier culture.
And it it creates conversationsthat are uncomfortable but real.
(17:02):
And those arethat's how you build a great firm.
It's not just this process. It'sokay. What are.
What's the what is the outcome of thisprocess actually being implemented?
Because one of them is high performance,but you're not going
to get higher performanceif Mary and her team
don't feel like it, feellike they're lying to people all the time,
you're going to actually createopportunities
for you to have real conversationsthat you may not be having today,
(17:24):
or you may be avoiding having today,but that's the reality,
because what's going to happenis that person is going to call back.
We're going to get a callwith a current client,
and they're going to be pissed offabout something.
And like,sometimes those are illegitimate.
And we all know that there'sa lot of things that happen in the family
law case that are we're clientshave feelings, and we still have to own
(17:48):
a portion of the pilotsreality in terms of what we created.
But there's going to be patternsthat emerge.
And someone like Mary'sgonna bring them up in a in a leadership
type meeting, and you're going to havea way better firm at the root.
And maybe it's justwe need to set better expectations
with our clientsgoing into certain types
of types of scenarios,because we didn't do a good job
prepping it before a hearing.
(18:09):
So now they feel likethey haven't been service.
Well, but Mary's going to hear that.
And then if we don't do anything about it.
We're going to sell worseon the intake side
because we're going to feel inauthenticand the clients
feel like we're trying to sell them.
So there's a whole bunch in herethat is unbelievably valuable
for creating a great culture,great firm, great service, and really
helping clients move forward in a Yeah.
(18:31):
Well said.
I was thinking, Tony,as you were talking about
how how welland natural Mary gave us that example.
And I assume that a lot of firmshave, like, one killer,
one amazing,you know, great person on the phones.
But we've decided toto really scale our firm.
Right.
(18:51):
Which means thatwe can't be reliant on unicorns.
We got to be ableto scale this process out.
And so while Mary is a unicorn in her ownright, Mary,
how do you keep the team accountable?
How do you ensure that they all arebelieving this,
that, that we are the safest place?
And how do you make sure thatthat they're
doing the follow up in the right sequence?
(19:15):
So three ways QA is the biggest advantageyou have.
Because you'll catch these momentsand you'll be able to
then coach to those specific moments.
And this is very heavy right.
Like you have to think about an intakeagent has a bucket.
And each daythat bucket is going to get fuller
and fuller with the detailsthat are being provided to them.
These are not easy calls to handle, right?
(19:37):
And there's got to be waysto relieve that that full bucket.
So how do you do that?
Well you QA themand you make sure that they feel supported
when they do make a mistakeand that it's okay to make mistakes
and that we're going to fix it togetherand we're going to fix it fast.
The second thing, though, is dailyhuddles.
You come together as a team.
You talk about what's not working,what are the things that need to be fixed
in the next 24 to 36 hours?
(19:59):
And then my favorite thingin the entire world is role playing.
I had two huddles already this morning,and role playing
was the main focus of both of them.
You don't have all the right answersindividually, but you have them as a group
and you can you can role play together,which is the best
and the safest place to expand.
You're not doing it with clients,and you can learn from each other,
(20:20):
and you can utilizewhat one agent is doing on a new agent
that has never experiencedthat situation before.
And you all get better over time.
You all get better.
one of the best thingsfor an intake person to hear is like,
hear how the story ended.
So likeand QA is going to be a helpful part,
a helpful part of that,because you're going to find wins
(20:41):
and you're going to be ableto, you know, shout them out
like you talk about the bucketthat's being filled.
They know they're doing a good joband they're impacting people positively
that it's going to like spur themto continue doing that.
So like those those types of thingsdon't they're they're fairly large
and they go a really long way.
That's a great is being able to ensurethat not only the team
is doing the right thing,but that there's an opportunity to
(21:03):
shout them out and reward themand make sure that they feel that love,
because that's only going to compoundthe belief that they're in the right spot.
that's one of the reasons,one of the reasons we do reviews for, for
for people, it has way more to dowith internally than it does.
Just external validationis if our team can see and feel like,
oh man, this really matters.
(21:23):
I am making an impactwith the people that were serving.
It has it has a really good impacton those team members,
and they get a sense of prideand all the baggage
that the here on the inbound every day.
If they're like,okay, there's a reason I'm doing this
and it feels more purpose driven than justtransactional, then you create better.
You get better performance as a resultbecause now it's now it's purpose driven.
(21:45):
I can see the purpose.
I can see the outcome.
Oh man, I'mso glad we were able to do that for,
you know, clients soand so so it's there's a lot there because
these are hard, hard conversations.
There's a lot of baggagethat our teams have to endure
emotionally because they're you know,these are good.
These are good people in the worsttimes of their life.
Usually that's typically the,the, the, the saying and family law
(22:07):
because you got great people out of workat their worst I want to get tactical
just for our listeners onif they are enjoying
what you're talking about, but are like,how do I implement follow up in my firm?
Like one example is I know you,every unconverted lead
gets a an account like owner,like a named owner like this.
(22:28):
You are responsiblefor going to follow up on this.
What other things like that?
Did you have to implementso that the team could scale?
Yeah. So100% correct in your first statement
that if you did the initial factfinding with the individual,
you know, what the pain points areand what the tie backs are,
you owe it to that person to follow themthrough until they essentially
(22:51):
tell you, I no longerwant to hear your voice ever again.
In my entire existence,that's when you let them go.
But also you had to implement a follow uplike a follow up process.
And what that looks like is very differentfor each individual.
So in our system,we have a 90 day follow up process.
It's not one call every 90 days.
Tony can walk you through the detailsof how these are generated,
(23:15):
but it goes on for 90 days.
Here'sthe asterisk that goes along with that.
The secondI get you back on the phone, Tyler
and you and I are no longerjust conversing via
text message or voicemails,but I'm actually talking to you live.
My job at the end of that conversationis to lock in either a consult
(23:36):
or to lock in another dateand time a specific date
and timethat you and I are going to follow up on.
The next thing that is goingto get you closer to that.
Yes, that90 day process starts over on that day.
So my longest client that I've everfollowed up with her name is Elaine.
It was 18 months long, 18 months on anannulment case that I will never forget.
(24:01):
She was the sweetest woman in the entireworld and was in a very painful situation
that couldn't make the decisionfor 18 months.
And that was okay.
And she kept apologizingevery single time we set up a call back.
I know we did this six times before, Mary.
I know I'm just not ready.
It's not my life. It's not my pain.
(24:23):
It's her pain.
My job is to get her to the safety.
And so I'm going to follow up with youuntil you tell me I never want
to hear your voice again,doesn't want to hear my voice.
So that's that's what it is.
You need to have a follow up process,and you need to be okay.
Have a thick enough skinto think of nose as a not yet
and not yetare one step closer to that. Yes.
(24:46):
Yeah.
To me,this is all about like having a CRM,
using the CRM and keeping it clean.
There are so many firms that we talk toin our sales process.
And Belasco, do you have a CRM?
Yeah, but I also have this spreadsheet,or I also have this napkin
that I take notes on throughout the day.
And I thinkone thing that Sterling has done
(25:07):
very, very well isit is the Salesforce is the Bible.
Like if it doesn't live inSalesforce, it doesn't live.
Don't care not don't careSo thank you both for your time.
That's amazing.
We are going to be doing a webinaron our follow up process.
So a little spoiler alert.
This is a preview on our webinar.
(25:28):
You're actually going to get our exactfollow up process.
We are going to walk you through itstep by step.
Today was more of a conversationthat will be
more of an educational seminar,if you will,
but I really hope you really see this,that you enjoy this conversation.
If you want to know more,please sign up for our webinar.
It is totally freeand it will be listed in the show notes.
As far as dates and times and linksand all the things.
(25:51):
But really appreciate your time todayand we'll look forward to seeing you
again soon.
If your firm talked to30 people last month who didn't retain you
and you left it at that.
You're literally wastingrevenue buried in your CRM.
This episode shows youthe difference between losing leads
and recovering revenue.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show.
I'm your host. Tyler Dolph.
(00:20):
I'm also the CEO of our family law firmonly consultancy called Rocket Clicks
that was born out of our very own familylaw firm, Sterling Lawyers,
that will do over $20 million in revenuethis year.
today we're going to talk with Maryand Tony again on the power of follow up
and what we do at Sterling.
Mary and Tony, welcomeback to the Sterling family Law Show.
(00:42):
You know,we're coming off an amazing webinar
that we just completed,had a record attendance,
and it was all aboutthe intake process at Sterling.
And so we thought, okay, we need to expandon this and really dive a bit deeper.
And so today we're going to talk aboutthe myth as it relates to dead leads
and the power of super strong follow up.
(01:05):
Mary, get us started byjust talking about your philosophy
as it relates to why you should follow upand why, you know, leads aren't dead.
If they say no in the first callor if they say, let me think about
Just said it all in one sentence.
This does not have to meanif somebody says no or they have to think
about it or talk to their great unclewho's going to pay for the consultation.
(01:28):
That doesn't mean they're telling,you know.
And every no is closer to a yes.
And that's really the mindset thatyou need to have going into these calls.
It's just a not yet.
It's just not yetone step closer to that. Yes.
But you need to hold the truththat you are the safest place
for this individual to be.
And if they picked up the phoneand called you, you owe it to their future
(01:53):
to ensure that they know thatand to do everything that you can
to ensure that they get there.
So it's one step closereach and every time.
I'll just say Mary.
I think what's uniqueabout the way that we.
We've always done it at Sterling.
And how youyou got to do this when you started
that doesn't meanthat they're going to transact with you.
But like Mary's last statement,like you owe it to them
to make sure they go through the process,like where did they
(02:14):
did they get to a place where they can nowtake a next step forward?
It doesn't mean necessarilygoing through divorce, but like, did they
did they connect with maybe a therapistor a counselor or whatever?
The thing is that's nextso that they can move forward
in their lifebecause it doesn't necessarily it's not a
let's do a hard selland make sure that we get everybody
that calls a divorce or,you know, get involved with their family
(02:36):
so that they could have another stressfulmoment.
Like, that's not what was meant by that,but it is.
It is our job.
They entered our world,and we feel like it's our responsibility
to to care for themand move them to the next step in moving
forward in their life, and whether that'swith us or with another resource,
that's whatwe want to make sure we're doing.
And that's what a good, goodsalesperson on the phone is going to do.
(02:58):
And that's what that no or not yetor I'm not ready yet actually means.
But if there's no next step follow upcare for the person.
That's why they called you be differentthan everybody else in the marketplace.
Totally agree.
I thinkthe most powerful stat that we have as
it relates to looking at all of Sterling'sdata, is that 75% of our
revenue gets recordedduring our follow up system.
(03:21):
It doesn't happen on the first call.
It happens on subsequent calls.
And and knowing thatand having the narrative
that some of these family law firms have,which is like,
if I don't close on the first call,they're dead.
I should never do anything with them.
The amount of lost revenuethere is pretty astounding.
It's crazy to mewhen I think back to my time
(03:42):
as an intake agent,and I spent four years in that position,
the majority of my deals closeswhatever you want to say.
It was not first time callers,it was majority.
It was follow up. I loved follow up.
I loved the last week of the monthbecause I was sitting,
going through the last 60 and 90 daysof my clients that I previously spoke
(04:02):
to and ensuring that they knew that we arethe safest place to go through this.
If they choose to go through this,but we're also the safest place
to give referrals,to give the best solution for whatever
the pain that they're in, then that'sthe mindset that you need to have is.
I lovewhen Tony said they entered your world.
Yeah, they picked up the phoneand they called the law firm,
(04:24):
which was a really scary phonecall to make.
Now it's your job to treat them welland to treat them with truth
and love in a way that's meaningfulfor their future, with their families.
Can we just likewhen we're talking about clothes, we're
still talking setting a consultation.
That'swhat we're what we're talking about here.
(04:44):
So there's a lot of activity that happenspost clothes, because some of the 75%
that's on consultationsbecoming funded agreements.
And then another statisticwe're talking about
I think we're talking about intake.
So intake specifically you'rea lot of your values not happening on
that first phone callor 40% is happening on all the follow up.
(05:06):
So both on the post consultation,you're 75% of your revenue is coming
after that consultation date.
And then even on the intake,more than 40% of your intake value,
your sets are going to come after thatfirst one.
So if you're not doingfollow up on both sides of this,
you are missingmassive amounts of revenue.
(05:26):
I'm sorry to interrupt.
I just want to make sure we'recalibrated in what we're talking about
because we're talking about follow up.
All of this should bepart of everybody's plan,
but it's on both parts of this operation.
It's not just one or the other, it's both.
And they're a little bit different.
Like to answer Tyler'squestion, when they walk away
(05:47):
on the front end, the intake side,which is what
we're focusing on for this next webinar,it's not generally because of price.
They walk awaybecause they didn't feel understood.
Nobody could pinpoint the urgencyor what the cost of doing
nothing really is.
The solution was not personal.
(06:07):
It did not reflectthe needs that their family actually had.
No one led them to the decision.
That's that's a huge one.
And then they they had unspoken concernsthat you were too afraid
as the individual that answered their callto go deeper than surface level.
And sobecause you're not actually addressing
(06:29):
the real concern,you're addressing the wrong one.
And that's why they don't move forward.
So I want to jump around a little bit,because I think that what you said
is really importantand that if the first call,
the potential client doesn'tfeel heard or understood, or
maybe they're on the fence still right,and they're not going to close anyway,
what mistakes did maybe we make early on?
(06:51):
Or do you see our teammatein that first call.
But they then can correct or fix later on?
Have you ever been to a dentistor a doctor's appointment
where they're just asking youthe historical questions about your family
history, your medical history,the last time you were at the dentist?
That's what it is.
They share facts, not emotions.
(07:11):
And in this industry,in these types of conversations,
your questions have to digdeeper than tell me
your email, your phone number,your county, the opposing party's name.
What were your maiden name was?
What kind of case are you looking for?
It's.
It's got to make the individualfeel like they picked up the phone
(07:35):
during the hardest season of their life,and are going to talk to
somebody that actually understandsthe pain that they're in,
and follow ups need to truly here.
I heard what you said about your childrenand you missing drop off at school.
Everything that we talk about now relatesto ensuring that you can drop your child
off at school.
Does that make sense?
(07:55):
So it's really like having the opportunityto dig deep.
Yeah. Yep.
And then that goes into the next one.
The cost of doing nothing.
The cost of waiting.
The the lack of urgency.
Well, if if I'm on the phone with Tylerand he's telling me that he really misses
the fact that he can no longerdrop his sons off at school,
(08:15):
and he's missing baseball practices,and he walks away from scheduling
that consultationwhere I know that that's the first step
closer to allowing him backthat time with his child.
And I fail to mention that.
I fail to pinpoint.
Tyler, I know that you're in pain,and I cannot imagine having to go
another week missing all of your son'sbaseball practices when I know Holly's
(08:40):
at the other end of this, waiting for you,waiting to get you that time back.
If I'm not going to say that to you,Miss Opportunity, missed opportunity
to connect with that personand make them feel fully understood
and to pinpoint that, hey, doingnothing is a decision, and that decision
is not one that I'm going to allow youto make without really addressing it.
(09:02):
There's so much nuance indetail to what you said, because I think
if I'm listening this, I'm like, yeah,we you know, we have our call center.
Yeah, we ask those tough questions.
But your point about like,once they divulge something
so important to themthat becomes the, the root
(09:22):
at which the rest of the conversationhas to apply to.
Your beacon, it's your homing beaconpointing you to the direction
that they're going, right?
Like your follow up post,that has to be simple and it has to
guide them towards that beaconbecause they told you why they're in pain.
So now guide them towards the solution.
You in the in the webinarwe did you we asked two questions
(09:48):
really to uncoverwhat we're talking about here,
which is their dominant buying motive.
And like everybody has one of these.
And it's your jobas the intake person to to get it.
And once you get it okay.
Now it's your job toto manage it and to move it forward
as it pertains to like whatwhat did they tell you and what's
how do you help them solution that thing.
(10:09):
And it's not complicated,but most people just stay surface
level and stay transactional.
And then they have a heart.
Then they look at their their numbers andthey're like, why aren't we performing?
Well, we need more leads.
Like that's literallywhere the conversation goes.
And it's because we're not doing the jobthat we should be doing.
And the reality is like,we're not trying to be manipulative, but
they're everybody has a dominant buyingmotive for everything that you purchase,
(10:32):
whether it's a backpack or a shirtor getting your hairstyle
to certain way, like you have a DVMfor all of those things.
And like the if you'reif you're on the sales side of that,
it's your responsibilityto figure out why.
And then,okay, now how do I move this thing forward
and tie back to that thing constantlybecause they just told you the answer,
what are you doing with the answer?
(10:55):
Like they gave you the answer key?
What to be great.
If you were in schooland the teacher always gave
you the answer key to every single,you know, test or question,
you'd know what to do with it.
They ask so simple questions.
I mean,what are those two questions like?
Ask the questionsand do tie backs. Exactly.
And it also helps you in your follow ups.
So if you don't have enough information,your follow ups are going to feel
(11:18):
very transactional.
They're going to feel very chasingrather than leading.
But when you dig deeper,when you understand
what is actually at stake,what is the pain?
Well then every single conversationcan be different.
But again,it's always pointing towards that beacon.
What step are we taken to get you one?
(11:38):
No. Closer to the. Yes.
Yeah Mary.
What like just do do the generic grossfollow up Tyler.
And thendo the one that you just described, Tyler,
about him wanting to pick up his kidsand do baseball like it's it's
so different.
The second one doesn't feel likeit doesn't feel like a sales
(11:59):
I would be happy to.
So, Tyler, the gross follow up would be.
Hey, Tyler, I talked to you last night,and I'm just seeing how you're doing
since that conversation.
Are you ready to book that console?
Know who is this again?
What? exactly.
Oh, yeah. Exactly.
That's terrible. for sure.
Okay, if I were following up with Tylerand I knew that his sons were
(12:22):
at stake in the time with his sonsmatter to him, that conversation sounds.
Hey, Tyler,this is Mary from Sterling Lawyers.
Did I catch you at an okay time?
You did. Thanks, Mary.
Tyler,I've been thinking about your situation
all night,and I came across a YouTube video
on fathers rights on our websitethat I'm going to text over to you.
(12:44):
But what I really wanted to dotoday is focus on the cost of waiting.
Because I know you valuetime with your child,
and I know that you value all ofthose moments that are going to build
deeper relationships with your child.
And I'm not willingto let you have another week
go by where that is at risk.
So what I'm going to do todayis I'm going to send you that YouTube
(13:06):
video, and I want to take the next stepwith you to ensure that your children
and you have a really good relationshipas you progress towards your future.
Have you thought atall about the decision that you and I
ended with on the next step for youand your children, and that consultation
with Holly is still available,so I would love to book that for you
(13:26):
today.
Thanks so much, Mary.
I'm ready.
When was the last time your team calledto book a lead who didn't book?
If you can't answer that,neither can your intake team.
And that means every lead.
Who said I need to think aboutit is sitting in your CRM right now
(13:48):
without an owner, without a follow update, and no next step?
That lead is not dead.
That's revenue that you will not getthat you forgot about.
At Sterling Lawyers, 75% of our revenuecomes after that first conversation, 75%
meaning even if you just do this poorly,you will change your firm over night.
(14:10):
We track this across thousands of cases,and we found the money in the follow up.
We're teaching the exact follow up systembehind that number in a free training.
How do we prepare for every call?
What do our agents actually say?
And what is the cadence that runs behindevery lead until they book?
(14:31):
Please see the link belowso that you can sign up today.
To me,like the difference is so much more.
There's so much more heartlike I matter to you.
Oh, you were thinking about me.
Like you were thinking about my situation.
They remember the details likeit's all in the details and it's not hard.
(14:52):
Like we're not trying to create anythingcrazy.
It's just people will gowhere they feel like they're cared for
and they're going to get serviced.
Well, this is a huge decision.
It is at the beginning of thisI gave you, I think, five reasons
why people didn't move forward.
And I said no oneis leading them to the decision.
I think it was the fourthone that I said at the beginning.
(15:13):
That's a huge deal.
These individualscalling a family law firm
R worn down, they are worn out,they are heartbroken.
They are in physical,emotional and spiritual pain and turmoil.
They can't make decisions.
Most of themphysically cannot make the decision.
You have to do it for them,and you have to do it in a way
(15:34):
that is spoken with truth and love.
I know I am the safest place.
When a client calls any of my intakeagents, they are in the safest
hands possible,going towards the safest attorneys,
leading them to the safest outcomesfor their family.
That is the belief that you must havewhen you're answering these clients,
because they cannot make the decision andyou're going to have to do it with them.
(15:58):
But in order to do that with them,you have to do the four blocks as well,
and you have to do your follow up.
Well, it has to be personal.
It has to be about them.
Tie backs have to exist at every opportunity presented to you in that client.
Just like,just like a weird nuance in here
that probably is not us livingthis out has made us a better firm.
(16:19):
Because you know what happens whenthe intake team doesn't feel like that?
They're going to say somethingabout our service,
and we're going to havea real conversation about
how we're servicing our clientsso that our intake team
feels very comfortableand not lying about our service.
And it creates a way betterfirm, way healthier firm,
(16:41):
because we're actually we're actuallyall working together,
and we're not trying to create thislike just this thing that produces money.
Like we're actually trying to live outwhat we, you know, what we idealize
in our mind about building a law firmand helping people.
And it creates ait creates a way, healthier culture.
And it it creates conversationsthat are uncomfortable but real.
(17:02):
And those arethat's how you build a great firm.
It's not just this process. It'sokay. What are.
What's the what is the outcome of thisprocess actually being implemented?
Because one of them is high performance,but you're not going
to get higher performanceif Mary and her team
don't feel like it, feellike they're lying to people all the time,
you're going to actually createopportunities
for you to have real conversationsthat you may not be having today,
(17:24):
or you may be avoiding having today,but that's the reality,
because what's going to happenis that person is going to call back.
We're going to get a callwith a current client,
and they're going to be pissed offabout something.
And like,sometimes those are illegitimate.
And we all know that there'sa lot of things that happen in the family
law case that are we're clientshave feelings, and we still have to own
(17:48):
a portion of the pilotsreality in terms of what we created.
But there's going to be patternsthat emerge.
And someone like Mary'sgonna bring them up in a in a leadership
type meeting, and you're going to havea way better firm at the root.
And maybe it's justwe need to set better expectations
with our clientsgoing into certain types
of types of scenarios,because we didn't do a good job
prepping it before a hearing.
(18:09):
So now they feel likethey haven't been service.
Well, but Mary's going to hear that.
And then if we don't do anything about it.
We're going to sell worseon the intake side
because we're going to feel inauthenticand the clients
feel like we're trying to sell them.
So there's a whole bunch in herethat is unbelievably valuable
for creating a great culture,great firm, great service, and really
helping clients move forward in a Yeah.
(18:31):
Well said.
I was thinking, Tony,as you were talking about
how how welland natural Mary gave us that example.
And I assume that a lot of firmshave, like, one killer,
one amazing,you know, great person on the phones.
But we've decided toto really scale our firm.
Right.
(18:51):
Which means thatwe can't be reliant on unicorns.
We got to be ableto scale this process out.
And so while Mary is a unicorn in her ownright, Mary,
how do you keep the team accountable?
How do you ensure that they all arebelieving this,
that, that we are the safest place?
And how do you make sure thatthat they're
doing the follow up in the right sequence?
(19:15):
So three ways QA is the biggest advantageyou have.
Because you'll catch these momentsand you'll be able to
then coach to those specific moments.
And this is very heavy right.
Like you have to think about an intakeagent has a bucket.
And each daythat bucket is going to get fuller
and fuller with the detailsthat are being provided to them.
These are not easy calls to handle, right?
(19:37):
And there's got to be waysto relieve that that full bucket.
So how do you do that?
Well you QA themand you make sure that they feel supported
when they do make a mistakeand that it's okay to make mistakes
and that we're going to fix it togetherand we're going to fix it fast.
The second thing, though, is dailyhuddles.
You come together as a team.
You talk about what's not working,what are the things that need to be fixed
in the next 24 to 36 hours?
(19:59):
And then my favorite thingin the entire world is role playing.
I had two huddles already this morning,and role playing
was the main focus of both of them.
You don't have all the right answersindividually, but you have them as a group
and you can you can role play together,which is the best
and the safest place to expand.
You're not doing it with clients,and you can learn from each other,
(20:20):
and you can utilizewhat one agent is doing on a new agent
that has never experiencedthat situation before.
And you all get better over time.
You all get better.
one of the best thingsfor an intake person to hear is like,
hear how the story ended.
So likeand QA is going to be a helpful part,
a helpful part of that,because you're going to find wins
(20:41):
and you're going to be ableto, you know, shout them out
like you talk about the bucketthat's being filled.
They know they're doing a good joband they're impacting people positively
that it's going to like spur themto continue doing that.
So like those those types of thingsdon't they're they're fairly large
and they go a really long way.
That's a great is being able to ensurethat not only the team
is doing the right thing,but that there's an opportunity to
(21:03):
shout them out and reward themand make sure that they feel that love,
because that's only going to compoundthe belief that they're in the right spot.
that's one of the reasons,one of the reasons we do reviews for, for
for people, it has way more to dowith internally than it does.
Just external validationis if our team can see and feel like,
oh man, this really matters.
(21:23):
I am making an impactwith the people that were serving.
It has it has a really good impacton those team members,
and they get a sense of prideand all the baggage
that the here on the inbound every day.
If they're like,okay, there's a reason I'm doing this
and it feels more purpose driven than justtransactional, then you create better.
You get better performance as a resultbecause now it's now it's purpose driven.
(21:45):
I can see the purpose.
I can see the outcome.
Oh man, I'mso glad we were able to do that for,
you know, clients soand so so it's there's a lot there because
these are hard, hard conversations.
There's a lot of baggagethat our teams have to endure
emotionally because they're you know,these are good.
These are good people in the worsttimes of their life.
Usually that's typically the,the, the, the saying and family law
(22:07):
because you got great people out of workat their worst I want to get tactical
just for our listeners onif they are enjoying
what you're talking about, but are like,how do I implement follow up in my firm?
Like one example is I know you,every unconverted lead
gets a an account like owner,like a named owner like this.
(22:28):
You are responsiblefor going to follow up on this.
What other things like that?
Did you have to implementso that the team could scale?
Yeah. So100% correct in your first statement
that if you did the initial factfinding with the individual,
you know, what the pain points areand what the tie backs are,
you owe it to that person to follow themthrough until they essentially
(22:51):
tell you, I no longerwant to hear your voice ever again.
In my entire existence,that's when you let them go.
But also you had to implement a follow uplike a follow up process.
And what that looks like is very differentfor each individual.
So in our system,we have a 90 day follow up process.
It's not one call every 90 days.
Tony can walk you through the detailsof how these are generated,
(23:15):
but it goes on for 90 days.
Here'sthe asterisk that goes along with that.
The secondI get you back on the phone, Tyler
and you and I are no longerjust conversing via
text message or voicemails,but I'm actually talking to you live.
My job at the end of that conversationis to lock in either a consult
(23:36):
or to lock in another dateand time a specific date
and timethat you and I are going to follow up on.
The next thing that is goingto get you closer to that.
Yes, that90 day process starts over on that day.
So my longest client that I've everfollowed up with her name is Elaine.
It was 18 months long, 18 months on anannulment case that I will never forget.
(24:01):
She was the sweetest woman in the entireworld and was in a very painful situation
that couldn't make the decisionfor 18 months.
And that was okay.
And she kept apologizingevery single time we set up a call back.
I know we did this six times before, Mary.
I know I'm just not ready.
It's not my life. It's not my pain.
(24:23):
It's her pain.
My job is to get her to the safety.
And so I'm going to follow up with youuntil you tell me I never want
to hear your voice again,doesn't want to hear my voice.
So that's that's what it is.
You need to have a follow up process,and you need to be okay.
Have a thick enough skinto think of nose as a not yet
and not yetare one step closer to that. Yes.
(24:46):
Yeah.
To me,this is all about like having a CRM,
using the CRM and keeping it clean.
There are so many firms that we talk toin our sales process.
And Belasco, do you have a CRM?
Yeah, but I also have this spreadsheet,or I also have this napkin
that I take notes on throughout the day.
And I thinkone thing that Sterling has done
(25:07):
very, very well isit is the Salesforce is the Bible.
Like if it doesn't live inSalesforce, it doesn't live.
Don't care not don't careSo thank you both for your time.
That's amazing.
We are going to be doing a webinaron our follow up process.
So a little spoiler alert.
This is a preview on our webinar.
(25:28):
You're actually going to get our exactfollow up process.
We are going to walk you through itstep by step.
Today was more of a conversationthat will be
more of an educational seminar,if you will,
but I really hope you really see this,that you enjoy this conversation.
If you want to know more,please sign up for our webinar.
It is totally freeand it will be listed in the show notes.
As far as dates and times and linksand all the things.
(25:51):
But really appreciate your time todayand we'll look forward to seeing you
again soon.
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